WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello everyone.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the next level of humanity podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have Anthony Del Porto here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hi Anthony.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.
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[SPEAKER_01]: John here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Great, thank you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Anthony is an investor and today we're going to be speaking about capital conviction and the long game seeing clearly seeing the future clearly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we're going to talk about a lot about patience because that's what we need.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think these days as investors welcome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So should we start by your journey for many people in
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[SPEAKER_00]: And for only a few, it becomes the way of thinking.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When did Capital start shaping how you see the world?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And when did it start to be investing to be a way of thinking?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I can very much connect with that myself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I believe there is an investor's mind.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a shift in our thinking, which gets reflected into our daily life relationships everything as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when did that shift happen for you?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's funny.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of this from a different angle from most people in the investment world.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was a mechanical engineer actually, so I used to do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, drawings and build machines and all the sort of stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, investing really is sort of always been to me, the way that you sort of find a certain amount of personal freedom, you know, engineering is a great profession.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I loved it, but you're very much your.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're paid for your time, right, and and times just such a valuable commodity to the person who's giving it up So I wanted to find a way that that I was I was exiting that sort of transactional approach to time and then So I started investing basically as soon as I could I mean I was doing stocks and college and all this sort of stuff But things got more serious as I as I became
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[SPEAKER_01]: later in my professional career, and then, you know, the big mindset shift for me that led to putting together better way, the venture capital fund that I've run is the just the idea that investing in capital can also be a way to change the world and the way the world itself works, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's changed from being sort of a, I'm a passenger in the car to seeing it as a way to decide where the car is going.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like being empowered in multiple dimensions, I think, managing money and managing wealth is very empowering in multiple dimensions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So what really experiences taught you that markets are as much about human behavior as they are about numbers.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh, well, so I, so, you know, my, the, the impact that I wanted to have was in the environment and so even at young age, I would go and I would buy the earth friendly sponge and it would be, you know, just for watching dishes and it would be a terrible sponge and it would be, you know, it wouldn't work very well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It would fall apart.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I, I, what I quickly learned was that for the most part people doing what they do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're affected by the world around them and sort of the technologies that are available.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason most people use products that aren't as earth friendly are those of the ones that work and do the job.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So then I started thinking, okay, how can we change those rules?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where investing early stage finding companies that are bringing to technology is they can change the rules, the rules being really sort of what the technology is.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that now all of a sudden, and not that we're doing sponges, but the, you know, for the sake of the metaphor, you know, the, the eco friendly sponge can actually now be the much better sponge than the one you had prior.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so seeing investing is the way to get that to happen, right, early stage companies, they need capital, they need support.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so bringing that to them really becomes the way to enact that change.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is exciting and it's also very valuable.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's also like you experience being a true value yourself when you support precede seed companies.
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[SPEAKER_00]: which I also think is very rewarding.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There were moments when investing stop feeling exciting ever and started feeling a bit serious, a bit heavy, maybe because investing more on funds is very different than other people's funds, it gets more serious, you know, it's a different dynamic.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean, bringing other people into the investments is where we're definitely, it's still fun.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The fun to not go away, but it's definitely it's heavier the, you know, you can't, I mean, depends on the, on the investor, but you can't, as easily look at someone and say, well, we were doing what we intended to do, and it didn't go well, you know, it's just a different world once it's other people's money.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You have to be far more serious, far more rigorous.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and be able to really show that, that, you know, if something didn't go well, you know, there was, there's a good reason for it and it wasn't something that you just sort of didn't try.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also not being charged.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If things doesn't go the way, the way you thought they would, because it's kind of like, I think we're doing our best, hardworking individuals, you know, and yeah, I think facing that as well is a big thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the whole world speaking with a friend of mine here in London, who is leading a hedge fund.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and we were talking about with her and she's been in the finance world for over twenty two years or something and we were speaking about the big responsibility and how tough it is to be face to face with the you know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: owners of the fund, when things go wrong, means that we're from the level of self-mastery.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We were speaking about that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's a different level of self-mastery.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a different level of, it needs a different level of self-confidence and commitment to yourself and the work you're doing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And before capital entered the picture, what values were already forming
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh, I mean, really truly that even before I was on the capital side, it was, I always had to feel that what I was doing was improving things, right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And in, in a, some people will say that we're making the world a better place by doing something.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then they'll say, whatever the something is that they say is usually just sort of like, it's just doing business, right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's nothing wrong with that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But you really want to see that you're having an impact.
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[SPEAKER_01]: we were teaching people how to deal with their day-to-day finances, which was much more of a a mission related to investing as well, actually, but this wasn't sort of, you know, someone has retirement account and you're trying to, you know, grow that this was helping people with, you know, several maxed out credit cards.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How do they deal with that?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a real reality for a lot of people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it felt good to be working on that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so just again, you spend a lot of your time working in any given day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so you really want to feel that that time is going somewhere that you really have aligned it with your values and and you feel like you're making the kind of positive impact you want to make.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I fully agree doing what we love and loving what we do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And also being aligned with our own values, this is what matters at the end of the day.
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[SPEAKER_00]: After years of investing, what do you trust most today when making decisions?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a maybe pattern or pattern recognition?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is it intuitive?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are there some data?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You are definitely looking at... And it's very, it's like as an early...
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[SPEAKER_00]: the stage and master myself, it is really tough to make those decisions because you never know it's too early to make any assumptions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you go through that?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, so there are some parts which you're constantly learning here, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the parts of the pattern that I see that really makes sense are, you need to make sure that these
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[SPEAKER_01]: market that's targeted is large enough.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually get the type of return you're looking for right, but that's sort of like the standard, you know, that's like due diligence, one on one level type stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The real thing that I find is you need to see when you're talking with the founders and the entrepreneurs and are these people that seem to for some reason.
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[SPEAKER_01]: just be able to attract more high-level and performing people to them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we're investing largely in hard technologies, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So these are people coming out of laboratories, universities, or sometimes straight out of the industry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so even there, you'll notice that when that person talks, other people are paying attention, they want to join a team, they're excited about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really, it's really seeing that the missions big enough, that the thing they're doing,
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[SPEAKER_01]: effects enough people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then you really want to see someone that just can attract more people to them to 12 row in the same direction.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's that I would say those are the two big things that that really have to be true all the time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great strategy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What what distinguishes investors who endure from those who burn out and despair disappear?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I really do think it's mission, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, if you're just there to make a quick buck and the tide changes and the market changes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Never quick.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, it's not going to be quick anyways, so set that aside.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Even in the stock market, it's like it needs a lot of effort and it's never quick.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But then, you know, when all the sudden things are going poorly and you're looking around you like,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You just decide that some other strategy makes more sense.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm done with this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to leave.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't where you're going to make money quickly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you go and you leave those, you know, those are the people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're just, they're chasing a thing that I think that doesn't exist.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The people they're saying, no, I'm doing this because I really, really believe in it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's important.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the people that stick around.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's been fun, really, with investing in sort of this climate and sustainability crowd is that everyone's there because they're trying to, you know,
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[SPEAKER_01]: improve the planet that they live on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And to date, you really don't have any other options on planets.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no quitting, there's no getting out or still here on earth.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the investors as well as founders, you're investing because you truly care.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think what you say is true, I have seen the same pattern over and over again over the years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think the ones who stick to their own strategy, their own values, and able to say no.
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[SPEAKER_00]: to what is not aligned with their, you know, thesis, are the one who eventually make it happen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I, are fully agree.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A personal question, how has your relationship with uncertainty evolved?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, during the years, and what did it cost you to develop the tolerance?
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's fun laughing because several times my wife will look at me and say, you're risk tolerance is real different from mine.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to just add something.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is not the first time I'm hearing this, which is wives telling their husbands your risk tolerance is higher.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of like as a woman with behavioral health signs is background.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm now certain that man have higher risk tolerance.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we would be in the material world.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're usually the ones we're freaking out and you won't.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why not?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Go for it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have an answer on why?
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, I haven't yet.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm asking you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So look, I mean, and certain these
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[SPEAKER_01]: The name of the game, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's no, when people say they're going to do things or invest from a point from a place of certainty, what they're really saying is, I'm going to assume that X, Y, and Z are a guarantee.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But X, Y, and Z are never guarantees.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm a big fan of Nesim to Lab who did know the Black Swan, but he's also done several other books.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the most, I think the most recent one being anti-fragile, but his whole point is, look,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Over a long enough time period, everything breaks and falls apart.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So the only thing that works is the ability to adapt to that, and this is what his book, anti-fragils about, that the systems that work or the systems actually get more effective when there's uncertainty, because they learn and adapt to it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so my comfort with certainty is really just the fact that even when you think it's a guarantee, it's not.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so once you accept that, then you can say,
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[SPEAKER_01]: relative amounts of uncertainty for relative amounts of benefit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I can at least be certain because at no point is uncertain zero.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So just, you know, get to let go of that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I also like what you say, the rule of the game.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yesterday, I was a speaker at a event with around 20 women who were leading family or leading family offices.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the other speaker was Donatella,
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[SPEAKER_00]: She has over three decades of the experience in leading family offices and we were like speaking before before the event and she was like You know there are all these founders and investors.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel this way.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel that way, but it's like she was like I'm here to say
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[SPEAKER_00]: it comes back to you and said, the end of the day, it's all about knowing the rules of the game.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought about feelings that that's like simple as that in the business world, investment world, know the rules of the game, and then you can grow with that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it comes back to the rules of the game, because there are rules of the game.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There is a system, a structured way of, you know, the game we are planning and the playing, and it has
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[SPEAKER_00]: Certain rules, specific structures, and when you follow those, you get to somewhere, but if you're like above the clouds and I feel this way, it's just, it doesn't work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We were speaking about the young generation on all that, that was one of the topics.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what's the most subtle mistake you have ever done yourself and experienced other investors still making?
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[SPEAKER_01]: the real answer is probably I don't even know yet, but I think, you know, maybe it's not, maybe can I reframe it as insidious mistake?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the most insidious mistake a lot of investors make is investing in something because someone else is in it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's, you know, there's the simple your version of that, which is just, you know, you're, you're giving up part of the, the conscious
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[SPEAKER_01]: of really analyzing an investment and deciding that, yes, this actually does work for how I view the world and what I think is coming to just saying, well, somebody else thinks it's so good enough.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, that was, what was the blood testing start up that blew up, man, my cameraman right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's perfect timing.
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[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We know we're talking about something.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But that, you know, basically everyone kind of looked at each other and said, well, I invested because you did.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, and that person said, well, I invested because that person didn't, that person because you did.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody was actually doing the, and the analysis.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They just invested based on the fact that there are big names in it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, it must be good, which.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's sort of the worst version of that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But that's why I say it's insidious because if someone that you trust invests in you invest because of that, somebody else that trusts you and best because you invested, it's not wrong if it turns out it is a good investment.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But if everybody's sort of given up their own level of critical thinking as a result, then all of a sudden you have big issues.
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[SPEAKER_00]: True, and that puts a lot of responsibility on leads.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You see, lead investor's shoulders if you're the lead investor.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the rest is coming, they're like, we thought you were, you know, your thing because you're the lead investor.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That actually happens more on the LP world.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I see more and more LP's, you know, investing because the other LP's invested, do you know?
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's not being more on the LP level.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But on the VC level, yeah, I agree to do your own work, do your own research.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, capital, I think that's like why in general, why we see this side to be these things, because shaping industries, culture, also, you know, having some kind of an effect, some kind of an impact on
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[SPEAKER_00]: the world is what matters, at the end of the day.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's why now P becomes an LP, a VC becomes an VC or an investor, investor startups, and capital is quietly shaping everything, industries, culture.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How cautious are you of the second and third order effects of your decisions?
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[SPEAKER_01]: almost the nature of what I why I decide to do this is is the second and third order effects that was that was really what I was hoping for so extremely conscious third order gets a lot harder right you've got weird you know things like javans paradox whereas things get cheaper people use more that's you there's a there's a I don't know
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like you're standing in a street light at night and I can see as far as that light shines and beyond that I can kind of glimpse a little bit but after that you know I can't tell anything that's going on so I can only operate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: with the amount of information I have that I can actually determine what the future will look like as a result at the second and third order what we're doing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, there's also a certain amount of accepting that beyond that, there's no way of knowing.
18:51.309 --> 18:55.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to sort of just sort of hold your breath and ask your fingers.
18:55.777 --> 18:59.464
[SPEAKER_00]: And then support the founders in any way.
18:59.564 --> 19:01.307
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%.
19:01.287 --> 19:07.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Over time, what kinds of founders' ideas or structures have you felt most compelled to support?
19:07.561 --> 19:12.973
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when they weren't obvious, they weren't the best bets, and they weren't obvious.
19:13.153 --> 19:19.026
[SPEAKER_00]: But I believe every we see at least I have bets until now.
19:19.006 --> 19:24.975
[SPEAKER_00]: is compelled towards certain ideas and certain founders and, you know, structures.
19:25.035 --> 19:26.558
[SPEAKER_00]: So what what's it for you?
19:27.820 --> 19:34.430
[SPEAKER_01]: When I'm looking for just, and just as clarification, so we're, you know, we're investing in hard technologies.
19:34.490 --> 19:41.180
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, this usually coming out of research institutions, sometimes people have industry, but these are more technical founders.
19:41.521 --> 19:42.482
[SPEAKER_01]: And
19:42.462 --> 19:55.077
[SPEAKER_01]: What I actually really like, especially as an early stage founder, is finding those people that are coming from that technical background, because I share that with them, that are now making their foray into the business world.
19:55.537 --> 20:07.591
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I really like to see are people that have that sort of spark of curiosity that they want to understand how the business side works, and they want to understand what they need to learn in order to succeed there.
20:07.731 --> 20:09.313
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are
20:09.293 --> 20:26.395
[SPEAKER_01]: They're smart, they're technical, they haven't gone through a lot of these, you know, they haven't been through the meat grinder yet of, of writing a business and that's okay because they have that, that, you know, desire to learn how this is going to work and they recognize that we're not going to get it right the first time.
20:26.736 --> 20:32.363
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we get it right, you know, the second, third, fourth, fifth time, but that they're, they have the drive to really get that.
20:32.383 --> 20:35.487
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I want to see because these, you know,
20:35.467 --> 20:40.380
[SPEAKER_01]: These aren't usually people coming out with an MBA, these are people that have a chemistry degree.
20:41.322 --> 20:47.839
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a different skill set, but they can get there, they just need a little helping guys.
20:47.903 --> 20:48.364
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:49.005 --> 20:49.465
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:49.485 --> 20:52.470
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the next question will be a bit philosophical, maybe.
20:52.510 --> 20:58.780
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you personally define enough when it comes to wealth and ambition, legacy?
20:59.401 --> 21:01.504
[SPEAKER_00]: When do you say, okay, enough?
21:01.524 --> 21:01.965
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fun.
21:02.606 --> 21:07.354
[SPEAKER_01]: So the wealth side enough is pretty easy.
21:07.454 --> 21:08.836
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, I'm not concerned.
21:08.856 --> 21:09.557
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually out.
21:09.978 --> 21:10.879
[SPEAKER_01]: You can look them up later.
21:10.899 --> 21:13.303
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy called Mr. Money Mustache.
21:13.283 --> 21:18.709
[SPEAKER_01]: who is much more about not spending money so that you can actually live a life of freedom doing what you want.
21:19.269 --> 21:25.956
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, that also helps the environment because you're not just buying things, just to buy things or anything on his lines.
21:26.156 --> 21:31.302
[SPEAKER_01]: So really the question really then becomes much more on the legacy and the impact.
21:31.882 --> 21:39.670
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, I don't know that there isn't enough because we're in a bad spot as far as how things are going with the environment.
21:39.851 --> 21:41.232
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
21:41.431 --> 21:50.627
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't I don't see us getting some somewhere good in my lifetime, maybe in my children's lifetime, but we're we've got a lot of work to do and I'm okay with that.
21:50.928 --> 21:51.769
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy the work.
21:51.990 --> 21:52.851
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy doing this.
21:53.272 --> 21:56.959
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's fulfilling to see things improve.
21:57.279 --> 22:01.667
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not really looking for enough and I don't worry about getting her anyways.
22:01.647 --> 22:03.492
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great answer.
22:03.512 --> 22:03.933
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
22:03.953 --> 22:08.925
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very, very wise of you to say those things.
22:09.367 --> 22:18.610
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think the long-term investors, what would responsibility do long-term investors carry that short-term participants usually overlook?
22:18.590 --> 22:37.853
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the, as a short-term investor, and, you know, I'm early stage, I'm not short-term, but, you know, the key thing is to see that the company and the people in it can grow and become the person that you need at a later stage.
22:38.034 --> 22:46.504
[SPEAKER_01]: And not everybody can, and that's
22:46.484 --> 22:54.314
[SPEAKER_01]: who just recognized that he was an early stage guy and once he got into big companies that we're going to IPO, he needed to get out.
22:54.614 --> 23:06.990
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know that that change in that development over time is is something that either you can you can help someone develop to where they can do it or help them see.
23:06.970 --> 23:16.279
[SPEAKER_01]: that they're actually going to be happier if they step out because they don't really like the things you need to do when it becomes quarterly reports to share holders on the public market.
23:16.379 --> 23:17.160
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a different.
23:17.880 --> 23:18.141
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:18.501 --> 23:21.344
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and most founders don't like that.
23:21.784 --> 23:29.371
[SPEAKER_00]: I think most founders, you know, like the whole, you know, starting up and, you know, small teams and building something.
23:29.411 --> 23:34.176
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when it gets to a point, you know, I feel most founders at least, I know of,
23:34.595 --> 23:37.693
[SPEAKER_00]: decide, you know, I don't want this to go down.
23:37.713 --> 23:39.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave and even as an answer.
23:39.161 --> 23:40.167
[SPEAKER_00]: That's understandable.
23:40.838 --> 23:41.899
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
23:41.919 --> 23:45.484
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, even if I wanted that, I would go home, wait for end price.
23:45.504 --> 23:46.926
[SPEAKER_01]: See, I would sign up for that job.
23:46.966 --> 23:48.027
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an easy one for that.
23:48.388 --> 23:48.888
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:48.928 --> 23:49.709
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks back.
23:49.729 --> 23:59.161
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, even investing, I've recognized that my role is going to change with my startups, you know, when it's pre-seed and seed, I'm very involved.
23:59.922 --> 24:10.255
[SPEAKER_01]: When they're contemplating which I banker to take them through the IPO, I really can't help and don't really get much out of doing it anyways.
24:11.703 --> 24:13.327
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's I think the fun part.
24:13.347 --> 24:13.969
[SPEAKER_00]: We can choose.
24:15.011 --> 24:15.914
[SPEAKER_00]: We can pick and choose.
24:16.214 --> 24:16.495
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:17.056 --> 24:25.077
[SPEAKER_00]: What beliefs about success, money, markets have you completely outgrown since you became a VC or self.
24:25.398 --> 24:25.999
[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
24:26.907 --> 24:37.404
[SPEAKER_01]: Bill State to anyone that is an entrepreneur in working in startups and they look at the VCs they're talking to and they think, wow, they have just this pile of money that they can do whatever they want with.
24:38.166 --> 24:42.553
[SPEAKER_01]: The reality is as a VC, you're just constantly fundraising.
24:42.533 --> 24:43.374
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're doing.
24:43.795 --> 24:46.038
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's, it's a different world.
24:46.499 --> 24:54.432
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would like to think that main meant that VCs, therefore, had a, a much more sympathetic view of, of founders.
24:54.492 --> 24:56.315
[SPEAKER_01]: And some do, but some don't.
24:56.655 --> 24:58.077
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
24:58.117 --> 25:00.481
[SPEAKER_01]: That, that would, that's the big, the big differences.
25:00.922 --> 25:08.794
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think the ones and do you think the VCs are kind of like a buffer mechanism or a
25:08.774 --> 25:14.101
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the investors who are investing their own money between the startups.
25:14.121 --> 25:14.501
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%.
25:14.581 --> 25:22.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a, it's a, I love the fact that you use the term buffer, because I think it's also a buffer in like the computer science sense, right?
25:23.573 --> 25:23.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:23.793 --> 25:32.925
[SPEAKER_01]: That investors, the people allocating funds move at a certain rate, but one they do, it's going to be big.
25:32.905 --> 25:37.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas start-ups are coming constantly and it's really fast and these are smaller bets.
25:38.191 --> 25:41.254
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you're acting as literally the buffer.
25:41.294 --> 25:42.335
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that you said that way.
25:42.376 --> 25:43.116
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's perfect.
25:43.397 --> 25:56.932
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's how it feels for me as both an angel investor would some experience with angel investing and also syndicate investing and also crowdfunding and also LP.
25:56.972 --> 26:01.697
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like you are the buffer.
26:01.677 --> 26:07.522
[SPEAKER_00]: What does patients look like both in the investment world for you and also in real life?
26:07.602 --> 26:28.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I believe, and I sincerely think, when I look at investors, VCs, like you know, I said in the first place, when we started the conversation, I think patients being patient, understanding patients, and understanding our patient's
26:29.032 --> 26:34.321
[SPEAKER_00]: letting the money earn, you know, earning money from your own money.
26:34.341 --> 26:39.189
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like this whole different mindset which most people don't have.
26:39.509 --> 26:43.817
[SPEAKER_00]: For you, what does patients look like in real life, you know?
26:44.157 --> 26:46.661
[SPEAKER_00]: Also in the investment world, also in real life.
26:46.681 --> 26:53.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Not as a virtue, but as a daily discipline, as a daily choice, which I think all investors,
26:53.753 --> 27:16.060
[SPEAKER_00]: or, you know, my myself included are making because it's kind of like a daily discipline, you you're not after short-term gains and short-term pleasures, I would say, right, but you have enough discipline to just wait for the long run and you have to remind yourself every day that you're here for the long run, not for short-term reward.
27:16.080 --> 27:17.922
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's it, I think different mindset.
27:18.796 --> 27:19.657
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
27:19.758 --> 27:31.837
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if anyone wants to get into early stage investing, it's a good lesson in patients for sure, because you know, it's interesting is that most people get the headlines, right?
27:31.897 --> 27:35.623
[SPEAKER_01]: They guys, they see the news version, but you know, are the press releases.
27:35.603 --> 27:45.554
[SPEAKER_01]: of these companies that have done these amazing things and you know, it's worth so much money and, you know, and every now and then you'll hear in the people that really did well were the early investors.
27:45.975 --> 27:51.481
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's easy to say to yourself, well, then obviously I just need to be an early investor.
27:51.541 --> 27:57.848
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the missing part is to what is what you're saying, which is the patience, because keep in mind those people did this a decade ago.
27:57.828 --> 28:12.270
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, yes, there's an element of, of, it's hard to keep showing up because you're not getting those rewards and those, you know, dopamine hits really of, of seeing it work.
28:12.290 --> 28:25.590
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, you know, the thing here that's the most fun, honestly, is to pitch in with the startups and help them find, you know, another customer or the next investor or whatever it is.
28:25.570 --> 28:32.509
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, that's, I think Jerry Seinfeld said something to the effect of every job has a part that's
28:32.894 --> 28:34.056
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, you know, no fun.
28:34.096 --> 28:34.697
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we'll say.
28:34.737 --> 28:39.566
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, you know, you just have to find the one that that type of no fun works for you.
28:40.608 --> 28:51.387
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, there's an element of patience and being zen about things, but then there's also an element of finding something that actually doesn't feel that bad in the process.
28:51.468 --> 28:57.298
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I enjoy the helping part that I get to do.
28:57.667 --> 29:05.202
[SPEAKER_00]: When you step out of, you know, out from markets and decisions and start-ups, who are you without the identity of an investor?
29:05.562 --> 29:05.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh.
29:06.344 --> 29:09.790
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, father I play music sailing.
29:09.810 --> 29:10.492
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
29:10.512 --> 29:12.576
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy life.
29:12.957 --> 29:17.525
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much to do and enjoy here.
29:17.565 --> 29:20.451
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, you know, my big thing,
29:20.431 --> 29:21.333
[SPEAKER_01]: is community.
29:21.673 --> 29:29.146
[SPEAKER_01]: We are fortunate to live in a neighborhood that feels like a neighborhood wearing an older part of Charleston where the schools right down the street.
29:29.767 --> 29:43.131
[SPEAKER_01]: There are parks you can walk to and I see people I know pretty much every day walking around and that's just being part of the community just a human being that that gets to really take part in sort of the natural
29:43.178 --> 30:02.048
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we humans are in the need of belonging and we are very tribal, so that you know, community does matter, especially for, you know, mental health and as we probably most of us know, for mental health emotional health, so yeah, that's that's beautiful, so you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you
30:02.028 --> 30:06.713
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a in your own community and you are a tribal and investor.
30:06.733 --> 30:20.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great And over the years of you know, when we look back to your experience in business and then now is an investor What truth has remained constant for you moving through all business cycles?
30:20.887 --> 30:25.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a couple of crisis Now changing narratives.
30:25.152 --> 30:28.255
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the truth that we made with you over the years?
30:28.235 --> 30:32.924
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the first time as always the hardest, that's sort of what I've noticed.
30:33.064 --> 30:44.927
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, the first time you have to let someone go and it's an employee, that the night before is, you know, never ending if you can sleep at all.
30:45.515 --> 30:48.819
[SPEAKER_01]: Then after that, you're like, okay, we've done it, we've survived.
30:48.979 --> 30:51.322
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I know what it really is versus what it isn't.
30:52.223 --> 30:53.824
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's in the other side of that, too, right?
30:53.925 --> 30:58.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is startups, if you're doing this right, you're going, everyone talks about you going from zero to one.
30:58.730 --> 31:02.995
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the first time anyone's done this in the world for whatever you're doing.
31:03.195 --> 31:07.079
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, there's that element of, it's going to be really hard.
31:07.400 --> 31:14.728
[SPEAKER_01]: But every inch of progress you make is going to be, you know, the hardest time it was for you, the next time you make that inch,
31:15.653 --> 31:16.374
[SPEAKER_01]: it'll be easier.
31:16.815 --> 31:17.837
[SPEAKER_01]: But a large margin.
31:18.959 --> 31:23.707
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is very much because I have also started up founders.
31:24.007 --> 31:35.687
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like giving birth and then the child grow up and and then I think along the way you learn a lot about yourself.
31:36.477 --> 31:42.052
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, even, you know, the fact that maybe like me, that you're not a start-up phone.
31:43.556 --> 31:46.524
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, my journey has been, whoa, this is just too much.
31:46.604 --> 31:49.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe maybe you're not a start-up phone.
31:49.151 --> 31:50.194
[SPEAKER_00]: There's way in the journey.
31:50.254 --> 31:51.718
[SPEAKER_00]: We sometimes learn.
31:51.698 --> 31:53.060
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is not for me.
31:53.100 --> 32:19.562
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm too chill to be a startup for that's that's you know now I like mentoring especially the young generation and that's like what I'm looking for because there is a difference between start-up founder and a founder like I'm a founder I'm a serial entrepreneur but being a start-up for a founder is a whole different job It didn't know many years back then like 10 maybe 12 years ago when I first very founded my own start-up
32:19.897 --> 32:21.780
[SPEAKER_00]: but it didn't turn out to be a startup.
32:21.841 --> 32:27.691
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still on App Store and in the markets and all that, but it's like, you know, no exit strategy, nothing.
32:28.332 --> 32:43.440
[SPEAKER_00]: And I learned about myself, you know, I'm just too chill and I'm not, I don't have that ambition about, you know, money first of all, you know, or maybe I should also put it like that first or more.
32:43.775 --> 32:53.209
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because you have to when you look at founders, they have this third their hungry for more and then at one point, I was like, I'm not that hungry.
32:53.289 --> 32:57.015
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just going to stop, it's not going to happen.
32:57.035 --> 33:01.902
[SPEAKER_00]: What's also what what we should be, I think, looking for us as investors.
33:02.573 --> 33:04.316
[SPEAKER_01]: 100 percent.
33:05.157 --> 33:07.400
[SPEAKER_00]: First in hunger and that, you know.
33:08.582 --> 33:10.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a lovely conversation, Anthony.
33:10.686 --> 33:15.613
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of things, you know, a lot of insights for me happening and deep conversation.
33:15.673 --> 33:16.414
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.
33:17.276 --> 33:18.157
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry for being here.
33:18.418 --> 33:21.623
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone listening enjoyed it as much as I did.
33:21.643 --> 33:25.368
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have one last question which I usually ask to all of our guests.
33:26.109 --> 33:29.695
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could leave one message to the next generation of investors.
33:30.147 --> 33:32.510
[SPEAKER_00]: and founders, what would that be?
33:32.750 --> 33:35.974
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is, this is your chance to change the world.
33:36.655 --> 33:37.997
[SPEAKER_01]: I think is, is really the answer.
33:38.477 --> 33:42.622
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, there's, I hope you feel really good about the change that you're making.
33:42.643 --> 33:44.625
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and go for it, baby, yeah.
33:44.645 --> 33:46.327
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, lovely, lovely, lovely.
33:46.387 --> 33:46.828
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
33:46.888 --> 33:51.053
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to all of our listeners and whoever is watching us on YouTube.
33:51.073 --> 33:53.356
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you subscribe to our channel.
33:53.916 --> 33:57.561
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, on Spotify, and I will see you in the next episode.
33:57.661 --> 33:58.382
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye for now.
00:00.031 --> 00:00.936
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello everyone.
00:01.037 --> 00:03.672
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the next level of humanity podcast.
00:03.793 --> 00:06.026
[SPEAKER_00]: I have Anthony Del Porto here.
00:06.046 --> 00:06.790
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi Anthony.
00:06.810 --> 00:07.273
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.
00:07.928 --> 00:09.270
[SPEAKER_01]: John here.
00:09.290 --> 00:10.231
[SPEAKER_00]: Great, thank you.
00:10.672 --> 00:20.284
[SPEAKER_00]: Anthony is an investor and today we're going to be speaking about capital conviction and the long game seeing clearly seeing the future clearly.
00:20.344 --> 00:24.189
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we're going to talk about a lot about patience because that's what we need.
00:24.269 --> 00:27.673
[SPEAKER_00]: I think these days as investors welcome.
00:27.713 --> 00:28.134
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.
00:28.534 --> 00:33.801
[SPEAKER_00]: So should we start by your journey for many people in
00:33.781 --> 00:39.453
[SPEAKER_00]: And for only a few, it becomes the way of thinking.
00:40.314 --> 00:43.802
[SPEAKER_00]: When did Capital start shaping how you see the world?
00:44.383 --> 00:48.672
[SPEAKER_00]: And when did it start to be investing to be a way of thinking?
00:48.732 --> 00:52.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I can very much connect with that myself.
00:52.820 --> 00:55.165
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe there is an investor's mind.
00:55.600 --> 01:02.112
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a shift in our thinking, which gets reflected into our daily life relationships everything as well.
01:02.473 --> 01:04.296
[SPEAKER_00]: So when did that shift happen for you?
01:05.078 --> 01:05.499
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
01:05.539 --> 01:06.821
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's funny.
01:06.881 --> 01:10.228
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of this from a different angle from most people in the investment world.
01:10.308 --> 01:13.153
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a mechanical engineer actually, so I used to do.
01:13.403 --> 01:16.347
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, drawings and build machines and all the sort of stuff.
01:16.407 --> 01:27.463
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, investing really is sort of always been to me, the way that you sort of find a certain amount of personal freedom, you know, engineering is a great profession.
01:27.583 --> 01:30.788
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved it, but you're very much your.
01:30.768 --> 01:58.446
[SPEAKER_01]: You're paid for your time, right, and and times just such a valuable commodity to the person who's giving it up So I wanted to find a way that that I was I was exiting that sort of transactional approach to time and then So I started investing basically as soon as I could I mean I was doing stocks and college and all this sort of stuff But things got more serious as I as I became
01:58.426 --> 02:17.329
[SPEAKER_01]: later in my professional career, and then, you know, the big mindset shift for me that led to putting together better way, the venture capital fund that I've run is the just the idea that investing in capital can also be a way to change the world and the way the world itself works, right?
02:17.470 --> 02:25.159
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's changed from being sort of a, I'm a passenger in the car to seeing it as a way to decide where the car is going.
02:25.223 --> 02:40.522
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like being empowered in multiple dimensions, I think, managing money and managing wealth is very empowering in multiple dimensions.
02:40.902 --> 02:47.991
[SPEAKER_00]: So what really experiences taught you that markets are as much about human behavior as they are about numbers.
02:48.848 --> 03:09.431
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh, well, so I, so, you know, my, the, the impact that I wanted to have was in the environment and so even at young age, I would go and I would buy the earth friendly sponge and it would be, you know, just for watching dishes and it would be a terrible sponge and it would be, you know, it wouldn't work very well.
03:09.451 --> 03:10.212
[SPEAKER_01]: It would fall apart.
03:10.852 --> 03:17.860
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I, I, what I quickly learned was that for the most part people doing what they do.
03:18.498 --> 03:21.982
[SPEAKER_01]: They're affected by the world around them and sort of the technologies that are available.
03:22.642 --> 03:30.471
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason most people use products that aren't as earth friendly are those of the ones that work and do the job.
03:31.052 --> 03:34.495
[SPEAKER_01]: So then I started thinking, okay, how can we change those rules?
03:35.236 --> 03:45.467
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where investing early stage finding companies that are bringing to technology is they can change the rules, the rules being really sort of what the technology is.
03:45.565 --> 03:58.308
[SPEAKER_01]: So that now all of a sudden, and not that we're doing sponges, but the, you know, for the sake of the metaphor, you know, the, the eco friendly sponge can actually now be the much better sponge than the one you had prior.
03:58.729 --> 04:04.860
[SPEAKER_01]: And so seeing investing is the way to get that to happen, right, early stage companies, they need capital, they need support.
04:05.001 --> 04:09.008
[SPEAKER_01]: And so bringing that to them really becomes the way to enact that change.
04:09.899 --> 04:12.789
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is exciting and it's also very valuable.
04:12.829 --> 04:21.057
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also like you experience being a true value yourself when you support precede seed companies.
04:22.066 --> 04:24.809
[SPEAKER_00]: which I also think is very rewarding.
04:26.211 --> 04:43.753
[SPEAKER_00]: There were moments when investing stop feeling exciting ever and started feeling a bit serious, a bit heavy, maybe because investing more on funds is very different than other people's funds, it gets more serious, you know, it's a different dynamic.
04:44.408 --> 04:50.458
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean, bringing other people into the investments is where we're definitely, it's still fun.
04:50.879 --> 05:08.208
[SPEAKER_01]: The fun to not go away, but it's definitely it's heavier the, you know, you can't, I mean, depends on the, on the investor, but you can't, as easily look at someone and say, well, we were doing what we intended to do, and it didn't go well, you know, it's just a different world once it's other people's money.
05:08.228 --> 05:10.332
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to be far more serious, far more rigorous.
05:10.733 --> 05:19.693
[SPEAKER_01]: and be able to really show that, that, you know, if something didn't go well, you know, there was, there's a good reason for it and it wasn't something that you just sort of didn't try.
05:19.934 --> 05:23.241
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also not being charged.
05:23.542 --> 05:39.346
[SPEAKER_00]: If things doesn't go the way, the way you thought they would, because it's kind of like, I think we're doing our best, hardworking individuals, you know, and yeah, I think facing that as well is a big thing.
05:39.407 --> 05:46.798
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the whole world speaking with a friend of mine here in London, who is leading a hedge fund.
05:46.778 --> 06:01.969
[SPEAKER_00]: and we were talking about with her and she's been in the finance world for over twenty two years or something and we were speaking about the big responsibility and how tough it is to be face to face with the you know.
06:01.949 --> 06:07.357
[SPEAKER_00]: owners of the fund, when things go wrong, means that we're from the level of self-mastery.
06:07.397 --> 06:08.679
[SPEAKER_00]: We were speaking about that.
06:08.699 --> 06:10.702
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's a different level of self-mastery.
06:10.722 --> 06:18.915
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a different level of, it needs a different level of self-confidence and commitment to yourself and the work you're doing.
06:19.896 --> 06:20.898
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
06:20.918 --> 06:21.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:21.679 --> 06:28.429
[SPEAKER_00]: And before capital entered the picture, what values were already forming
06:28.409 --> 06:38.502
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh, I mean, really truly that even before I was on the capital side, it was, I always had to feel that what I was doing was improving things, right.
06:38.663 --> 06:42.688
[SPEAKER_01]: And in, in a, some people will say that we're making the world a better place by doing something.
06:42.828 --> 06:49.096
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they'll say, whatever the something is that they say is usually just sort of like, it's just doing business, right.
06:49.236 --> 06:50.678
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's nothing wrong with that.
06:51.319 --> 06:58.028
[SPEAKER_01]: But you really want to see that you're having an impact.
06:58.261 --> 07:17.383
[SPEAKER_01]: we were teaching people how to deal with their day-to-day finances, which was much more of a a mission related to investing as well, actually, but this wasn't sort of, you know, someone has retirement account and you're trying to, you know, grow that this was helping people with, you know, several maxed out credit cards.
07:17.633 --> 07:18.594
[SPEAKER_01]: How do they deal with that?
07:18.714 --> 07:18.914
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
07:19.575 --> 07:21.477
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a real reality for a lot of people.
07:21.537 --> 07:24.040
[SPEAKER_01]: So it felt good to be working on that.
07:24.560 --> 07:30.606
[SPEAKER_01]: And so just again, you spend a lot of your time working in any given day.
07:30.746 --> 07:39.355
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you really want to feel that that time is going somewhere that you really have aligned it with your values and and you feel like you're making the kind of positive impact you want to make.
07:39.375 --> 07:43.219
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I fully agree doing what we love and loving what we do.
07:43.807 --> 07:49.514
[SPEAKER_00]: And also being aligned with our own values, this is what matters at the end of the day.
07:50.235 --> 07:54.961
[SPEAKER_00]: After years of investing, what do you trust most today when making decisions?
07:55.041 --> 07:59.226
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a maybe pattern or pattern recognition?
07:59.346 --> 08:01.148
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it intuitive?
08:01.969 --> 08:03.291
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there some data?
08:03.351 --> 08:09.038
[SPEAKER_00]: You are definitely looking at... And it's very, it's like as an early...
08:09.018 --> 08:17.266
[SPEAKER_00]: the stage and master myself, it is really tough to make those decisions because you never know it's too early to make any assumptions.
08:17.286 --> 08:19.408
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you go through that?
08:19.929 --> 08:25.414
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, so there are some parts which you're constantly learning here, right?
08:25.715 --> 08:36.325
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the parts of the pattern that I see that really makes sense are, you need to make sure that these
08:36.305 --> 08:39.328
[SPEAKER_01]: market that's targeted is large enough.
08:39.428 --> 08:47.937
[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually get the type of return you're looking for right, but that's sort of like the standard, you know, that's like due diligence, one on one level type stuff.
08:48.718 --> 09:01.452
[SPEAKER_01]: The real thing that I find is you need to see when you're talking with the founders and the entrepreneurs and are these people that seem to for some reason.
09:01.432 --> 09:06.418
[SPEAKER_01]: just be able to attract more high-level and performing people to them.
09:06.818 --> 09:10.282
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're investing largely in hard technologies, right?
09:10.302 --> 09:14.847
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are people coming out of laboratories, universities, or sometimes straight out of the industry.
09:15.268 --> 09:23.998
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even there, you'll notice that when that person talks, other people are paying attention, they want to join a team, they're excited about it.
09:24.318 --> 09:28.823
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really, it's really seeing that the missions big enough, that the thing they're doing,
09:28.803 --> 09:29.866
[SPEAKER_01]: effects enough people.
09:30.508 --> 09:36.363
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you really want to see someone that just can attract more people to them to 12 row in the same direction.
09:36.584 --> 09:40.414
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that I would say those are the two big things that that really have to be true all the time.
09:40.715 --> 09:42.660
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great strategy.
09:42.843 --> 09:49.712
[SPEAKER_00]: What what distinguishes investors who endure from those who burn out and despair disappear?
09:49.952 --> 09:50.973
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
09:51.073 --> 09:54.097
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I really do think it's mission, right?
09:54.498 --> 10:04.190
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, if you're just there to make a quick buck and the tide changes and the market changes.
10:04.230 --> 10:06.032
[SPEAKER_01]: Never quick.
10:06.265 --> 10:09.331
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, it's not going to be quick anyways, so set that aside.
10:09.391 --> 10:14.000
[SPEAKER_00]: Even in the stock market, it's like it needs a lot of effort and it's never quick.
10:14.902 --> 10:15.824
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, exactly.
10:16.946 --> 10:21.675
[SPEAKER_01]: But then, you know, when all the sudden things are going poorly and you're looking around you like,
10:22.145 --> 10:25.108
[SPEAKER_01]: You just decide that some other strategy makes more sense.
10:25.148 --> 10:25.728
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm done with this.
10:25.808 --> 10:26.549
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to leave.
10:26.649 --> 10:28.191
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't where you're going to make money quickly.
10:28.311 --> 10:30.253
[SPEAKER_01]: And you go and you leave those, you know, those are the people.
10:30.293 --> 10:33.395
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just, they're chasing a thing that I think that doesn't exist.
10:34.136 --> 10:37.579
[SPEAKER_01]: The people they're saying, no, I'm doing this because I really, really believe in it.
10:38.300 --> 10:39.201
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's important.
10:39.441 --> 10:40.722
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the people that stick around.
10:40.842 --> 10:50.211
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's been fun, really, with investing in sort of this climate and sustainability crowd is that everyone's there because they're trying to, you know,
10:50.528 --> 10:52.094
[SPEAKER_01]: improve the planet that they live on.
10:52.114 --> 10:55.868
[SPEAKER_01]: And to date, you really don't have any other options on planets.
10:56.149 --> 11:02.192
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no quitting, there's no getting out or still here on earth.
11:02.341 --> 11:08.129
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the investors as well as founders, you're investing because you truly care.
11:08.149 --> 11:15.880
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what you say is true, I have seen the same pattern over and over again over the years.
11:16.561 --> 11:23.691
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the ones who stick to their own strategy, their own values, and able to say no.
11:23.671 --> 11:31.302
[SPEAKER_00]: to what is not aligned with their, you know, thesis, are the one who eventually make it happen.
11:31.322 --> 11:32.344
[SPEAKER_00]: I, are fully agree.
11:33.045 --> 11:37.732
[SPEAKER_00]: A personal question, how has your relationship with uncertainty evolved?
11:38.473 --> 11:43.080
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, during the years, and what did it cost you to develop the tolerance?
11:43.060 --> 11:48.893
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fun laughing because several times my wife will look at me and say, you're risk tolerance is real different from mine.
11:49.234 --> 11:50.517
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to just add something.
11:50.597 --> 11:59.938
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not the first time I'm hearing this, which is wives telling their husbands your risk tolerance is higher.
12:00.239 --> 12:06.105
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of like as a woman with behavioral health signs is background.
12:06.866 --> 12:11.311
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm now certain that man have higher risk tolerance.
12:11.811 --> 12:14.514
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we would be in the material world.
12:14.534 --> 12:17.678
[SPEAKER_00]: We're usually the ones we're freaking out and you won't.
12:17.798 --> 12:18.619
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why not?
12:18.699 --> 12:19.199
[SPEAKER_00]: Go for it.
12:19.419 --> 12:20.441
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have an answer on why?
12:20.781 --> 12:21.742
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I haven't yet.
12:21.842 --> 12:22.983
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm asking you.
12:23.864 --> 12:27.428
[SPEAKER_01]: So look, I mean, and certain these
12:28.083 --> 12:29.525
[SPEAKER_01]: The name of the game, right?
12:29.545 --> 12:41.305
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's no, when people say they're going to do things or invest from a point from a place of certainty, what they're really saying is, I'm going to assume that X, Y, and Z are a guarantee.
12:42.166 --> 12:44.150
[SPEAKER_01]: But X, Y, and Z are never guarantees.
12:44.370 --> 12:50.180
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm a big fan of Nesim to Lab who did know the Black Swan, but he's also done several other books.
12:50.460 --> 12:54.647
[SPEAKER_01]: And the most, I think the most recent one being anti-fragile, but his whole point is, look,
12:55.707 --> 12:59.355
[SPEAKER_01]: Over a long enough time period, everything breaks and falls apart.
12:59.521 --> 13:12.774
[SPEAKER_01]: So the only thing that works is the ability to adapt to that, and this is what his book, anti-fragils about, that the systems that work or the systems actually get more effective when there's uncertainty, because they learn and adapt to it.
13:13.594 --> 13:22.563
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my comfort with certainty is really just the fact that even when you think it's a guarantee, it's not.
13:22.984 --> 13:27.688
[SPEAKER_01]: And so once you accept that, then you can say,
13:28.141 --> 13:32.265
[SPEAKER_01]: relative amounts of uncertainty for relative amounts of benefit.
13:33.126 --> 13:36.930
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can at least be certain because at no point is uncertain zero.
13:37.310 --> 13:39.692
[SPEAKER_01]: So just, you know, get to let go of that.
13:40.013 --> 13:40.653
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:40.954 --> 13:43.917
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also like what you say, the rule of the game.
13:44.557 --> 13:52.365
[SPEAKER_00]: Yesterday, I was a speaker at a event with around 20 women who were leading family or leading family offices.
13:52.525 --> 13:57.490
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the other speaker was Donatella,
13:57.470 --> 14:11.998
[SPEAKER_00]: She has over three decades of the experience in leading family offices and we were like speaking before before the event and she was like You know there are all these founders and investors.
14:12.099 --> 14:12.960
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel this way.
14:13.040 --> 14:18.010
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel that way, but it's like she was like I'm here to say
14:17.990 --> 14:22.417
[SPEAKER_00]: it comes back to you and said, the end of the day, it's all about knowing the rules of the game.
14:22.857 --> 14:32.091
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought about feelings that that's like simple as that in the business world, investment world, know the rules of the game, and then you can grow with that.
14:32.131 --> 14:36.979
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it comes back to the rules of the game, because there are rules of the game.
14:37.179 --> 14:44.470
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a system, a structured way of, you know, the game we are planning and the playing, and it has
14:44.686 --> 14:54.676
[SPEAKER_00]: Certain rules, specific structures, and when you follow those, you get to somewhere, but if you're like above the clouds and I feel this way, it's just, it doesn't work.
14:54.696 --> 14:59.480
[SPEAKER_00]: We were speaking about the young generation on all that, that was one of the topics.
15:00.201 --> 15:14.575
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's the most subtle mistake you have ever done yourself and experienced other investors still making?
15:15.095 --> 15:23.703
[SPEAKER_01]: the real answer is probably I don't even know yet, but I think, you know, maybe it's not, maybe can I reframe it as insidious mistake?
15:24.263 --> 15:31.490
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the most insidious mistake a lot of investors make is investing in something because someone else is in it.
15:32.371 --> 15:42.840
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's, you know, there's the simple your version of that, which is just, you know, you're, you're giving up part of the, the conscious
15:43.124 --> 15:53.823
[SPEAKER_01]: of really analyzing an investment and deciding that, yes, this actually does work for how I view the world and what I think is coming to just saying, well, somebody else thinks it's so good enough.
15:54.404 --> 16:01.716
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, that was, what was the blood testing start up that blew up, man, my cameraman right now.
16:01.756 --> 16:02.558
[SPEAKER_01]: It's perfect timing.
16:03.800 --> 16:03.900
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
16:03.880 --> 16:05.984
[SPEAKER_00]: We know we're talking about something.
16:06.004 --> 16:11.434
[SPEAKER_01]: But that, you know, basically everyone kind of looked at each other and said, well, I invested because you did.
16:11.514 --> 16:15.542
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, and that person said, well, I invested because that person didn't, that person because you did.
16:15.662 --> 16:18.387
[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody was actually doing the, and the analysis.
16:18.407 --> 16:21.994
[SPEAKER_01]: They just invested based on the fact that there are big names in it.
16:22.054 --> 16:23.998
[SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, it must be good, which.
16:23.978 --> 16:25.701
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's sort of the worst version of that.
16:25.721 --> 16:39.664
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's why I say it's insidious because if someone that you trust invests in you invest because of that, somebody else that trusts you and best because you invested, it's not wrong if it turns out it is a good investment.
16:39.684 --> 16:47.758
[SPEAKER_01]: But if everybody's sort of given up their own level of critical thinking as a result, then all of a sudden you have big issues.
16:48.650 --> 16:52.274
[SPEAKER_00]: True, and that puts a lot of responsibility on leads.
16:52.654 --> 16:56.538
[SPEAKER_00]: You see, lead investor's shoulders if you're the lead investor.
16:56.558 --> 17:03.304
[SPEAKER_00]: And the rest is coming, they're like, we thought you were, you know, your thing because you're the lead investor.
17:03.685 --> 17:06.167
[SPEAKER_00]: That actually happens more on the LP world.
17:06.888 --> 17:13.915
[SPEAKER_00]: I see more and more LP's, you know, investing because the other LP's invested, do you know?
17:13.955 --> 17:17.458
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not being more on the LP level.
17:17.438 --> 17:22.623
[SPEAKER_00]: But on the VC level, yeah, I agree to do your own work, do your own research.
17:23.604 --> 17:24.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
17:24.786 --> 17:41.623
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, capital, I think that's like why in general, why we see this side to be these things, because shaping industries, culture, also, you know, having some kind of an effect, some kind of an impact on
17:41.603 --> 17:44.707
[SPEAKER_00]: the world is what matters, at the end of the day.
17:44.748 --> 17:55.924
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why now P becomes an LP, a VC becomes an VC or an investor, investor startups, and capital is quietly shaping everything, industries, culture.
17:56.504 --> 18:01.772
[SPEAKER_00]: How cautious are you of the second and third order effects of your decisions?
18:02.056 --> 18:22.647
[SPEAKER_01]: almost the nature of what I why I decide to do this is is the second and third order effects that was that was really what I was hoping for so extremely conscious third order gets a lot harder right you've got weird you know things like javans paradox whereas things get cheaper people use more that's you there's a there's a I don't know
18:22.627 --> 18:37.530
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like you're standing in a street light at night and I can see as far as that light shines and beyond that I can kind of glimpse a little bit but after that you know I can't tell anything that's going on so I can only operate.
18:38.084 --> 18:45.979
[SPEAKER_01]: with the amount of information I have that I can actually determine what the future will look like as a result at the second and third order what we're doing.
18:46.379 --> 18:51.228
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there's also a certain amount of accepting that beyond that, there's no way of knowing.
18:51.309 --> 18:55.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to sort of just sort of hold your breath and ask your fingers.
18:55.777 --> 18:59.464
[SPEAKER_00]: And then support the founders in any way.
18:59.564 --> 19:01.307
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%.
19:01.287 --> 19:07.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Over time, what kinds of founders' ideas or structures have you felt most compelled to support?
19:07.561 --> 19:12.973
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when they weren't obvious, they weren't the best bets, and they weren't obvious.
19:13.153 --> 19:19.026
[SPEAKER_00]: But I believe every we see at least I have bets until now.
19:19.006 --> 19:24.975
[SPEAKER_00]: is compelled towards certain ideas and certain founders and, you know, structures.
19:25.035 --> 19:26.558
[SPEAKER_00]: So what what's it for you?
19:27.820 --> 19:34.430
[SPEAKER_01]: When I'm looking for just, and just as clarification, so we're, you know, we're investing in hard technologies.
19:34.490 --> 19:41.180
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, this usually coming out of research institutions, sometimes people have industry, but these are more technical founders.
19:41.521 --> 19:42.482
[SPEAKER_01]: And
19:42.462 --> 19:55.077
[SPEAKER_01]: What I actually really like, especially as an early stage founder, is finding those people that are coming from that technical background, because I share that with them, that are now making their foray into the business world.
19:55.537 --> 20:07.591
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I really like to see are people that have that sort of spark of curiosity that they want to understand how the business side works, and they want to understand what they need to learn in order to succeed there.
20:07.731 --> 20:09.313
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are
20:09.293 --> 20:26.395
[SPEAKER_01]: They're smart, they're technical, they haven't gone through a lot of these, you know, they haven't been through the meat grinder yet of, of writing a business and that's okay because they have that, that, you know, desire to learn how this is going to work and they recognize that we're not going to get it right the first time.
20:26.736 --> 20:32.363
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we get it right, you know, the second, third, fourth, fifth time, but that they're, they have the drive to really get that.
20:32.383 --> 20:35.487
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I want to see because these, you know,
20:35.467 --> 20:40.380
[SPEAKER_01]: These aren't usually people coming out with an MBA, these are people that have a chemistry degree.
20:41.322 --> 20:47.839
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a different skill set, but they can get there, they just need a little helping guys.
20:47.903 --> 20:48.364
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:49.005 --> 20:49.465
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:49.485 --> 20:52.470
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the next question will be a bit philosophical, maybe.
20:52.510 --> 20:58.780
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you personally define enough when it comes to wealth and ambition, legacy?
20:59.401 --> 21:01.504
[SPEAKER_00]: When do you say, okay, enough?
21:01.524 --> 21:01.965
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fun.
21:02.606 --> 21:07.354
[SPEAKER_01]: So the wealth side enough is pretty easy.
21:07.454 --> 21:08.836
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, I'm not concerned.
21:08.856 --> 21:09.557
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually out.
21:09.978 --> 21:10.879
[SPEAKER_01]: You can look them up later.
21:10.899 --> 21:13.303
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy called Mr. Money Mustache.
21:13.283 --> 21:18.709
[SPEAKER_01]: who is much more about not spending money so that you can actually live a life of freedom doing what you want.
21:19.269 --> 21:25.956
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, that also helps the environment because you're not just buying things, just to buy things or anything on his lines.
21:26.156 --> 21:31.302
[SPEAKER_01]: So really the question really then becomes much more on the legacy and the impact.
21:31.882 --> 21:39.670
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, I don't know that there isn't enough because we're in a bad spot as far as how things are going with the environment.
21:39.851 --> 21:41.232
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
21:41.431 --> 21:50.627
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't I don't see us getting some somewhere good in my lifetime, maybe in my children's lifetime, but we're we've got a lot of work to do and I'm okay with that.
21:50.928 --> 21:51.769
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy the work.
21:51.990 --> 21:52.851
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy doing this.
21:53.272 --> 21:56.959
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's fulfilling to see things improve.
21:57.279 --> 22:01.667
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not really looking for enough and I don't worry about getting her anyways.
22:01.647 --> 22:03.492
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great answer.
22:03.512 --> 22:03.933
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
22:03.953 --> 22:08.925
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very, very wise of you to say those things.
22:09.367 --> 22:18.610
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think the long-term investors, what would responsibility do long-term investors carry that short-term participants usually overlook?
22:18.590 --> 22:37.853
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the, as a short-term investor, and, you know, I'm early stage, I'm not short-term, but, you know, the key thing is to see that the company and the people in it can grow and become the person that you need at a later stage.
22:38.034 --> 22:46.504
[SPEAKER_01]: And not everybody can, and that's
22:46.484 --> 22:54.314
[SPEAKER_01]: who just recognized that he was an early stage guy and once he got into big companies that we're going to IPO, he needed to get out.
22:54.614 --> 23:06.990
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know that that change in that development over time is is something that either you can you can help someone develop to where they can do it or help them see.
23:06.970 --> 23:16.279
[SPEAKER_01]: that they're actually going to be happier if they step out because they don't really like the things you need to do when it becomes quarterly reports to share holders on the public market.
23:16.379 --> 23:17.160
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a different.
23:17.880 --> 23:18.141
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:18.501 --> 23:21.344
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and most founders don't like that.
23:21.784 --> 23:29.371
[SPEAKER_00]: I think most founders, you know, like the whole, you know, starting up and, you know, small teams and building something.
23:29.411 --> 23:34.176
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when it gets to a point, you know, I feel most founders at least, I know of,
23:34.595 --> 23:37.693
[SPEAKER_00]: decide, you know, I don't want this to go down.
23:37.713 --> 23:39.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave and even as an answer.
23:39.161 --> 23:40.167
[SPEAKER_00]: That's understandable.
23:40.838 --> 23:41.899
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
23:41.919 --> 23:45.484
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, even if I wanted that, I would go home, wait for end price.
23:45.504 --> 23:46.926
[SPEAKER_01]: See, I would sign up for that job.
23:46.966 --> 23:48.027
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an easy one for that.
23:48.388 --> 23:48.888
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:48.928 --> 23:49.709
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks back.
23:49.729 --> 23:59.161
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, even investing, I've recognized that my role is going to change with my startups, you know, when it's pre-seed and seed, I'm very involved.
23:59.922 --> 24:10.255
[SPEAKER_01]: When they're contemplating which I banker to take them through the IPO, I really can't help and don't really get much out of doing it anyways.
24:11.703 --> 24:13.327
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's I think the fun part.
24:13.347 --> 24:13.969
[SPEAKER_00]: We can choose.
24:15.011 --> 24:15.914
[SPEAKER_00]: We can pick and choose.
24:16.214 --> 24:16.495
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:17.056 --> 24:25.077
[SPEAKER_00]: What beliefs about success, money, markets have you completely outgrown since you became a VC or self.
24:25.398 --> 24:25.999
[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
24:26.907 --> 24:37.404
[SPEAKER_01]: Bill State to anyone that is an entrepreneur in working in startups and they look at the VCs they're talking to and they think, wow, they have just this pile of money that they can do whatever they want with.
24:38.166 --> 24:42.553
[SPEAKER_01]: The reality is as a VC, you're just constantly fundraising.
24:42.533 --> 24:43.374
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're doing.
24:43.795 --> 24:46.038
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's, it's a different world.
24:46.499 --> 24:54.432
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would like to think that main meant that VCs, therefore, had a, a much more sympathetic view of, of founders.
24:54.492 --> 24:56.315
[SPEAKER_01]: And some do, but some don't.
24:56.655 --> 24:58.077
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
24:58.117 --> 25:00.481
[SPEAKER_01]: That, that would, that's the big, the big differences.
25:00.922 --> 25:08.794
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think the ones and do you think the VCs are kind of like a buffer mechanism or a
25:08.774 --> 25:14.101
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the investors who are investing their own money between the startups.
25:14.121 --> 25:14.501
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%.
25:14.581 --> 25:22.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a, it's a, I love the fact that you use the term buffer, because I think it's also a buffer in like the computer science sense, right?
25:23.573 --> 25:23.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:23.793 --> 25:32.925
[SPEAKER_01]: That investors, the people allocating funds move at a certain rate, but one they do, it's going to be big.
25:32.905 --> 25:37.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas start-ups are coming constantly and it's really fast and these are smaller bets.
25:38.191 --> 25:41.254
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you're acting as literally the buffer.
25:41.294 --> 25:42.335
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that you said that way.
25:42.376 --> 25:43.116
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's perfect.
25:43.397 --> 25:56.932
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's how it feels for me as both an angel investor would some experience with angel investing and also syndicate investing and also crowdfunding and also LP.
25:56.972 --> 26:01.697
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like you are the buffer.
26:01.677 --> 26:07.522
[SPEAKER_00]: What does patients look like both in the investment world for you and also in real life?
26:07.602 --> 26:28.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I believe, and I sincerely think, when I look at investors, VCs, like you know, I said in the first place, when we started the conversation, I think patients being patient, understanding patients, and understanding our patient's
26:29.032 --> 26:34.321
[SPEAKER_00]: letting the money earn, you know, earning money from your own money.
26:34.341 --> 26:39.189
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like this whole different mindset which most people don't have.
26:39.509 --> 26:43.817
[SPEAKER_00]: For you, what does patients look like in real life, you know?
26:44.157 --> 26:46.661
[SPEAKER_00]: Also in the investment world, also in real life.
26:46.681 --> 26:53.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Not as a virtue, but as a daily discipline, as a daily choice, which I think all investors,
26:53.753 --> 27:16.060
[SPEAKER_00]: or, you know, my myself included are making because it's kind of like a daily discipline, you you're not after short-term gains and short-term pleasures, I would say, right, but you have enough discipline to just wait for the long run and you have to remind yourself every day that you're here for the long run, not for short-term reward.
27:16.080 --> 27:17.922
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's it, I think different mindset.
27:18.796 --> 27:19.657
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
27:19.758 --> 27:31.837
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if anyone wants to get into early stage investing, it's a good lesson in patients for sure, because you know, it's interesting is that most people get the headlines, right?
27:31.897 --> 27:35.623
[SPEAKER_01]: They guys, they see the news version, but you know, are the press releases.
27:35.603 --> 27:45.554
[SPEAKER_01]: of these companies that have done these amazing things and you know, it's worth so much money and, you know, and every now and then you'll hear in the people that really did well were the early investors.
27:45.975 --> 27:51.481
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's easy to say to yourself, well, then obviously I just need to be an early investor.
27:51.541 --> 27:57.848
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the missing part is to what is what you're saying, which is the patience, because keep in mind those people did this a decade ago.
27:57.828 --> 28:12.270
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, yes, there's an element of, of, it's hard to keep showing up because you're not getting those rewards and those, you know, dopamine hits really of, of seeing it work.
28:12.290 --> 28:25.590
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, you know, the thing here that's the most fun, honestly, is to pitch in with the startups and help them find, you know, another customer or the next investor or whatever it is.
28:25.570 --> 28:32.509
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, that's, I think Jerry Seinfeld said something to the effect of every job has a part that's
28:32.894 --> 28:34.056
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, you know, no fun.
28:34.096 --> 28:34.697
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we'll say.
28:34.737 --> 28:39.566
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, you know, you just have to find the one that that type of no fun works for you.
28:40.608 --> 28:51.387
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, there's an element of patience and being zen about things, but then there's also an element of finding something that actually doesn't feel that bad in the process.
28:51.468 --> 28:57.298
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I enjoy the helping part that I get to do.
28:57.667 --> 29:05.202
[SPEAKER_00]: When you step out of, you know, out from markets and decisions and start-ups, who are you without the identity of an investor?
29:05.562 --> 29:05.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh.
29:06.344 --> 29:09.790
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, father I play music sailing.
29:09.810 --> 29:10.492
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
29:10.512 --> 29:12.576
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy life.
29:12.957 --> 29:17.525
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much to do and enjoy here.
29:17.565 --> 29:20.451
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, you know, my big thing,
29:20.431 --> 29:21.333
[SPEAKER_01]: is community.
29:21.673 --> 29:29.146
[SPEAKER_01]: We are fortunate to live in a neighborhood that feels like a neighborhood wearing an older part of Charleston where the schools right down the street.
29:29.767 --> 29:43.131
[SPEAKER_01]: There are parks you can walk to and I see people I know pretty much every day walking around and that's just being part of the community just a human being that that gets to really take part in sort of the natural
29:43.178 --> 30:02.048
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we humans are in the need of belonging and we are very tribal, so that you know, community does matter, especially for, you know, mental health and as we probably most of us know, for mental health emotional health, so yeah, that's that's beautiful, so you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you
30:02.028 --> 30:06.713
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a in your own community and you are a tribal and investor.
30:06.733 --> 30:20.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great And over the years of you know, when we look back to your experience in business and then now is an investor What truth has remained constant for you moving through all business cycles?
30:20.887 --> 30:25.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a couple of crisis Now changing narratives.
30:25.152 --> 30:28.255
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the truth that we made with you over the years?
30:28.235 --> 30:32.924
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the first time as always the hardest, that's sort of what I've noticed.
30:33.064 --> 30:44.927
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, the first time you have to let someone go and it's an employee, that the night before is, you know, never ending if you can sleep at all.
30:45.515 --> 30:48.819
[SPEAKER_01]: Then after that, you're like, okay, we've done it, we've survived.
30:48.979 --> 30:51.322
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I know what it really is versus what it isn't.
30:52.223 --> 30:53.824
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's in the other side of that, too, right?
30:53.925 --> 30:58.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is startups, if you're doing this right, you're going, everyone talks about you going from zero to one.
30:58.730 --> 31:02.995
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the first time anyone's done this in the world for whatever you're doing.
31:03.195 --> 31:07.079
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, there's that element of, it's going to be really hard.
31:07.400 --> 31:14.728
[SPEAKER_01]: But every inch of progress you make is going to be, you know, the hardest time it was for you, the next time you make that inch,
31:15.653 --> 31:16.374
[SPEAKER_01]: it'll be easier.
31:16.815 --> 31:17.837
[SPEAKER_01]: But a large margin.
31:18.959 --> 31:23.707
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is very much because I have also started up founders.
31:24.007 --> 31:35.687
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like giving birth and then the child grow up and and then I think along the way you learn a lot about yourself.
31:36.477 --> 31:42.052
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, even, you know, the fact that maybe like me, that you're not a start-up phone.
31:43.556 --> 31:46.524
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, my journey has been, whoa, this is just too much.
31:46.604 --> 31:49.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe maybe you're not a start-up phone.
31:49.151 --> 31:50.194
[SPEAKER_00]: There's way in the journey.
31:50.254 --> 31:51.718
[SPEAKER_00]: We sometimes learn.
31:51.698 --> 31:53.060
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is not for me.
31:53.100 --> 32:19.562
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm too chill to be a startup for that's that's you know now I like mentoring especially the young generation and that's like what I'm looking for because there is a difference between start-up founder and a founder like I'm a founder I'm a serial entrepreneur but being a start-up for a founder is a whole different job It didn't know many years back then like 10 maybe 12 years ago when I first very founded my own start-up
32:19.897 --> 32:21.780
[SPEAKER_00]: but it didn't turn out to be a startup.
32:21.841 --> 32:27.691
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still on App Store and in the markets and all that, but it's like, you know, no exit strategy, nothing.
32:28.332 --> 32:43.440
[SPEAKER_00]: And I learned about myself, you know, I'm just too chill and I'm not, I don't have that ambition about, you know, money first of all, you know, or maybe I should also put it like that first or more.
32:43.775 --> 32:53.209
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because you have to when you look at founders, they have this third their hungry for more and then at one point, I was like, I'm not that hungry.
32:53.289 --> 32:57.015
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just going to stop, it's not going to happen.
32:57.035 --> 33:01.902
[SPEAKER_00]: What's also what what we should be, I think, looking for us as investors.
33:02.573 --> 33:04.316
[SPEAKER_01]: 100 percent.
33:05.157 --> 33:07.400
[SPEAKER_00]: First in hunger and that, you know.
33:08.582 --> 33:10.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a lovely conversation, Anthony.
33:10.686 --> 33:15.613
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of things, you know, a lot of insights for me happening and deep conversation.
33:15.673 --> 33:16.414
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.
33:17.276 --> 33:18.157
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry for being here.
33:18.418 --> 33:21.623
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone listening enjoyed it as much as I did.
33:21.643 --> 33:25.368
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have one last question which I usually ask to all of our guests.
33:26.109 --> 33:29.695
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could leave one message to the next generation of investors.
33:30.147 --> 33:32.510
[SPEAKER_00]: and founders, what would that be?
33:32.750 --> 33:35.974
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is, this is your chance to change the world.
33:36.655 --> 33:37.997
[SPEAKER_01]: I think is, is really the answer.
33:38.477 --> 33:42.622
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, there's, I hope you feel really good about the change that you're making.
33:42.643 --> 33:44.625
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and go for it, baby, yeah.
33:44.645 --> 33:46.327
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, lovely, lovely, lovely.
33:46.387 --> 33:46.828
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
33:46.888 --> 33:51.053
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to all of our listeners and whoever is watching us on YouTube.
33:51.073 --> 33:53.356
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you subscribe to our channel.
33:53.916 --> 33:57.561
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, on Spotify, and I will see you in the next episode.
33:57.661 --> 33:58.382
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye for now.
