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Hello, and welcome to Lessons from My Narcissistic Father.
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Remember, if you're hearing this right now, you will only be hearing the first part of this episode.
3
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:21,180
If you would like to get access to the full episodes, please go to patreon.com/the
4
00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:22,260
Serenity Center, Inc.
5
00:00:22,470 --> 00:00:26,905
And there you can subscribe and receive all the full episodes with all the skills and tools.
6
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:36,240
Thank you very much for contributing to this effort to make sure people can take care of themselves and find new skills and tools in their life to move life forward.
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00:00:40,050 --> 00:00:45,150
Now, when we grew up with a Narciss 60 parent, boundaries often felt unsafe.
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So today we're gonna be talking about when boundaries were punished and they were punished, not because boundaries were wrong or terrible or awful.
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But because our narcissistic parent experienced them as a threat to their control, to their self-image or some kind of emotional supply for themselves to feel good about themselves and righteous and superior.
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So instead of our boundaries and limits being respected, our limits were likely punished, ignored, or manipulated.
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Let's talk about some of the most common ways our boundaries were punished.
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When we lived in an environment or grew up as a child of a narcissistic parent, so number one, if we tried to set a boundary or limit, our parent tended to have some emotional withdrawal or gave us some kind of silent treatment.
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So if you said no, or you disagreed with something or tried to have some privacy, hey, could you not come in my room? Could you please knock? Hey, could you not look at these things? Hey, this is my privacy.
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It's my notes to people.
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I don't want you to see this.
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What they may have done was ignored you, withheld affection, acted cold or distant, or made you feel abandoned.
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So they were constantly ignoring you, not talking to you, not letting you know how well you were doing or encouraging you about things.
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It just made you feel like you didn't matter.
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Because every time you set a limit, they would just ignore you.
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So what you learned here as a child was that setting limits or setting boundaries made people leave me and stop loving me.
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Hey, remember that episode that love is conditional? And this is what we learned, that hey, I can't have limits and boundaries because that love will be conditional.
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Quite the opposite.
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The second thing that would happen would be anger or rage or intimidation.
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So even if we set small boundaries, those small boundaries we set just by saying no.
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Or can I wait a minute, or, Hey, could you listen to me? Or Hey, that doesn't feel good, would cause these huge reactions of yelling or explosive anger.
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Maybe we were threatened to be punished, to be grounded, that things would, we'd taken away from us if we said no, or if we wanted privacy or we wanted to make our own decision about something.
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So we constantly felt scared for speaking up.
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We wouldn't speak up because if we did, somebody was gonna be mad.
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So what we learned was that protecting ourselves, it is very dangerous.
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So I don't, I do what people need me to do and the way they need me to do it, because I don't want people angry at me.
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The third thing that would happen if we tried to set boundaries and limits in our narcissistic households was guilt.
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Or emotional manipulation.
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So your parent may have reframed your boundaries or your limits as a harm to them.
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Like they may have said things like, you're telling me no, after everything I do for you, you haven't done what you need to do.
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After everything I've given you.
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You're so selfish.
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Hey, you hurt me when you tell me no, or don't let me come in to help you or don't let me see what's going on.
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And they act like a victim.
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So as a child, what we learn is that my needs hurt people.
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And I should feel guilty for having them.
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So that's what we do as an adult.
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We feel guilty for having feelings and needs, and we don't ask for what we need, and we put them on the shelf and we don't talk to anybody about what we want.
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We're quiet and reserved and withdrawn, and we get resentful because of it.
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The fourth thing that would happen if we set a limit or boundary gaslighting.
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We talked about it in that in an episode, and you go back and listen to what gaslighting is, but here, if you set a limit, your parent might have pretended that your boundary didn't even exist, or it wasn't valid.
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You probably heard things like you're just too sensitive.
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Why are you upset about that? Hey, that never happened.
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That's not what I said.
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Hey, I'm just joking with you.
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I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
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What are you talking about? So you were constantly being gaslit.
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There was denial about what was really going on.
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So what you learned was that you didn't trust yourself.
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You couldn't trust your feelings, you couldn't trust your reality, and you couldn't trust yourself.
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And you may be an adult now who is feeling the same way.
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I can't trust my reality.
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I can't trust myself.
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I can't trust anything going on in my life, and I can definitely not trust how I feel.
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If we try to set boundaries, limits, sometimes people would mock us.
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They would shame us or humiliate us.
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Our limits.
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They would be ridiculed, we'd be teased for needing space.
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We'd be called dramatic or ungrateful because we were asking for something we needed.
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Or when somebody said something, we cried.
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'cause it hurt our feelings.
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Or it was frustrating.
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Or we got angry, we were being dramatic.
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And what we learned here were us that our needs are embarrassing.
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Or even ridiculous.
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Why would you have needs you shouldn't have needs? What are you doing? And we become adults who are doing the very same thing.
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We don't think our needs are important.
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Another thing, the sixth thing that would happen if we tried to set limits, those boundary violations would be disguised as love.
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So our narcissistic parent may have crossed those limits while claiming they cared.
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So when they invaded our privacy.
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Yes.
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When they made decisions for us and didn't let us make our own decisions, when they told us our decisions was wrong, and this is what we're gonna do instead, when they tried to control our friendships and who we're with or tried to control our emotions or told us what we could or couldn't wear, or who how we could or couldn't be, what we learned was if I really love somebody and they really love me, there's no privacy.
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I have no autonomy.
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I cannot make my own decisions because it's gonna make somebody mad.
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It's gonna disappoint somebody again.
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We are learning that love is conditional.
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A seventh thing that happens, there's that when we set limits and boundaries is that we get confusing rewards and punishments.
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Sometimes they rewarded us for our compliance.
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Hey, you did a good job.
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Hey, thanks for doing that.
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Hey, that's how I need you to feel.
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Thanks for making the decision I need you to do.
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And they would reward us.
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But sometimes when we tried to be independent or asked for what we needed, it was unpredictable and we were punished for that.
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So what we learned, and we probably carry through today as adults, is I must stay hyper aware and please people around me to stay safe.
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'cause that's what we learned as kids.
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I gotta make sure what they need and want from me and make sure I'm out of ahead of that and give them what they need and want.
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'cause if I don't do that, something bad's gonna happen.
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So what does this mean for us? There's this deep psychological impact that over time as children, we develop this chronic guilt.
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When we say no, we couldn't say no because people would be angry and rageful or give us a silent treatment.
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We'd have this fear of conflict or rejection because if I ask what I need, people are gonna be mad.
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They're gonna reject me, they're not gonna be here, they're gonna be upset.
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It's gonna be wrong.
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We don't know who we are.
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We don't even know what we want or what we need because we're constantly trying to please other people and make sure nobody's gonna be mad at me or they're not going to abandon me.
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And anxiety, when setting limits becomes normal.
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As an adult, we feel so anxious to ask for what we need 'cause somebody's gonna do this to us.
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We are acting out of that fear.
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And we feel responsible for other people's emotions.
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I can't set limits and boundaries and ask what I need because it's gonna make somebody upset or angry or hurt them.
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And so I don't, so this conditioning, this is what your nervous system learned, that boundaries and setting limits and asking for what my need, that's dangerous.
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And what we need to recognize is this is really important Truth.
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That's our nervous system learning a response, and it's conditional and we can unlearn it because your boundaries, they're not wrong.
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They were treated as wrong because they were treated and threatened.
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Somebody who was dependent on controlling you, they were dependent on them feeling good, they were narcissistic, they were worried about who they were and how they felt and what was going on.
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So children are supposed to develop boundaries and healthy parents help them practice boundaries, and they don't punish them for saying no or asking for space.
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Our istic parents are only worried about themselves, how they feel, how they're gonna look good, how they can't make a mistake, how they can't own feelings, how it's everybody else's fault, not their own healthy parents.
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Allow that to happen and don't punish people for that.
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Don't punish your kids for that.
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So now, if you're noticing any of this in your adult life.
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As you sit and listen to this podcast, know this, that many adults were raised experiencing this guilt when saying, no guilt when resting overexplaining.
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Every decision you make, feeling selfish for any basic need you have.
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Having anxiety after asking for what you need or saying no to somebody, you have this huge treat, tremendous anxiety that something is wrong and I've abandoned, somebody's abandoned and they're mad at me.
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And what I want you to recognize here is this is not weakness or craziness or stupidity or any of those things that is, you learned how to survive using those skills in turn tools, and you can't unlearn it and learn something new.
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So growing up where boundaries or limits were punished teaches you just to survive, it doesn't teach you to have life skills.
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It teaches you just to survive the moment you're in.
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So as an adult, the work is learning tools that help you live, not just stay safe, which is why I'm constantly saying, Hey, I want to give you the skills and tools you need to move your life forward because we're not about just having safety here.
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We're about you having skills and tools that actually let you live life.
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So we talk a lot about that re-parenting skill and developing that, those core abilities as adults that we need, that we didn't get if we lived in a narcissistic home.
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So we have to grow up and build those intentionally.
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So let's talk about how you build those intentionally.
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First, you've got to set limits and boundaries, and we talked about limits and boundaries in several podcasts, and you've gotta tolerate that anxiety that shows up afterwards.
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You've gotta recognize that is your nervous system saying, Hey, this is hard, this is difficult.
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Somebody's gonna abandon you and leave you, but they're not.
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Setting limits and boundaries is a skill and a tool, and the more you practice it without explaining yourself over and over, the more you allow other people to be disappointed.
00:00:03,180 --> 00:00:07,410
Hello, and welcome to Lessons from My Narcissistic Father.
2
00:00:08,130 --> 00:00:13,500
Remember, if you're hearing this right now, you will only be hearing the first part of this episode.
3
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:21,180
If you would like to get access to the full episodes, please go to patreon.com/the
4
00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:22,260
Serenity Center, Inc.
5
00:00:22,470 --> 00:00:26,905
And there you can subscribe and receive all the full episodes with all the skills and tools.
6
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:36,240
Thank you very much for contributing to this effort to make sure people can take care of themselves and find new skills and tools in their life to move life forward.
7
00:00:40,050 --> 00:00:45,150
Now, when we grew up with a Narciss 60 parent, boundaries often felt unsafe.
8
00:00:45,570 --> 00:00:55,295
So today we're gonna be talking about when boundaries were punished and they were punished, not because boundaries were wrong or terrible or awful.
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00:00:56,190 --> 00:01:08,970
But because our narcissistic parent experienced them as a threat to their control, to their self-image or some kind of emotional supply for themselves to feel good about themselves and righteous and superior.
10
00:01:10,260 --> 00:01:17,250
So instead of our boundaries and limits being respected, our limits were likely punished, ignored, or manipulated.
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Let's talk about some of the most common ways our boundaries were punished.
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When we lived in an environment or grew up as a child of a narcissistic parent, so number one, if we tried to set a boundary or limit, our parent tended to have some emotional withdrawal or gave us some kind of silent treatment.
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00:01:42,075 --> 00:01:52,770
So if you said no, or you disagreed with something or tried to have some privacy, hey, could you not come in my room? Could you please knock? Hey, could you not look at these things? Hey, this is my privacy.
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It's my notes to people.
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I don't want you to see this.
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What they may have done was ignored you, withheld affection, acted cold or distant, or made you feel abandoned.
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So they were constantly ignoring you, not talking to you, not letting you know how well you were doing or encouraging you about things.
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It just made you feel like you didn't matter.
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Because every time you set a limit, they would just ignore you.
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So what you learned here as a child was that setting limits or setting boundaries made people leave me and stop loving me.
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Hey, remember that episode that love is conditional? And this is what we learned, that hey, I can't have limits and boundaries because that love will be conditional.
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Quite the opposite.
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The second thing that would happen would be anger or rage or intimidation.
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So even if we set small boundaries, those small boundaries we set just by saying no.
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Or can I wait a minute, or, Hey, could you listen to me? Or Hey, that doesn't feel good, would cause these huge reactions of yelling or explosive anger.
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Maybe we were threatened to be punished, to be grounded, that things would, we'd taken away from us if we said no, or if we wanted privacy or we wanted to make our own decision about something.
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So we constantly felt scared for speaking up.
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We wouldn't speak up because if we did, somebody was gonna be mad.
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So what we learned was that protecting ourselves, it is very dangerous.
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So I don't, I do what people need me to do and the way they need me to do it, because I don't want people angry at me.
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The third thing that would happen if we tried to set boundaries and limits in our narcissistic households was guilt.
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Or emotional manipulation.
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So your parent may have reframed your boundaries or your limits as a harm to them.
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Like they may have said things like, you're telling me no, after everything I do for you, you haven't done what you need to do.
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After everything I've given you.
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You're so selfish.
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Hey, you hurt me when you tell me no, or don't let me come in to help you or don't let me see what's going on.
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And they act like a victim.
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So as a child, what we learn is that my needs hurt people.
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And I should feel guilty for having them.
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So that's what we do as an adult.
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We feel guilty for having feelings and needs, and we don't ask for what we need, and we put them on the shelf and we don't talk to anybody about what we want.
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00:04:25,335 --> 00:04:31,545
We're quiet and reserved and withdrawn, and we get resentful because of it.
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00:04:33,975 --> 00:04:37,785
The fourth thing that would happen if we set a limit or boundary gaslighting.
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00:04:38,940 --> 00:04:47,820
We talked about it in that in an episode, and you go back and listen to what gaslighting is, but here, if you set a limit, your parent might have pretended that your boundary didn't even exist, or it wasn't valid.
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You probably heard things like you're just too sensitive.
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Why are you upset about that? Hey, that never happened.
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That's not what I said.
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Hey, I'm just joking with you.
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I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
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What are you talking about? So you were constantly being gaslit.
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There was denial about what was really going on.
53
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So what you learned was that you didn't trust yourself.
54
00:05:10,035 --> 00:05:14,595
You couldn't trust your feelings, you couldn't trust your reality, and you couldn't trust yourself.
55
00:05:15,585 --> 00:05:18,405
And you may be an adult now who is feeling the same way.
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I can't trust my reality.
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I can't trust myself.
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I can't trust anything going on in my life, and I can definitely not trust how I feel.
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If we try to set boundaries, limits, sometimes people would mock us.
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They would shame us or humiliate us.
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Our limits.
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They would be ridiculed, we'd be teased for needing space.
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We'd be called dramatic or ungrateful because we were asking for something we needed.
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Or when somebody said something, we cried.
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'cause it hurt our feelings.
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Or it was frustrating.
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Or we got angry, we were being dramatic.
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And what we learned here were us that our needs are embarrassing.
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Or even ridiculous.
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Why would you have needs you shouldn't have needs? What are you doing? And we become adults who are doing the very same thing.
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We don't think our needs are important.
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Another thing, the sixth thing that would happen if we tried to set limits, those boundary violations would be disguised as love.
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So our narcissistic parent may have crossed those limits while claiming they cared.
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So when they invaded our privacy.
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Yes.
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When they made decisions for us and didn't let us make our own decisions, when they told us our decisions was wrong, and this is what we're gonna do instead, when they tried to control our friendships and who we're with or tried to control our emotions or told us what we could or couldn't wear, or who how we could or couldn't be, what we learned was if I really love somebody and they really love me, there's no privacy.
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I have no autonomy.
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I cannot make my own decisions because it's gonna make somebody mad.
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It's gonna disappoint somebody again.
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We are learning that love is conditional.
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A seventh thing that happens, there's that when we set limits and boundaries is that we get confusing rewards and punishments.
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Sometimes they rewarded us for our compliance.
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Hey, you did a good job.
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Hey, thanks for doing that.
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Hey, that's how I need you to feel.
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Thanks for making the decision I need you to do.
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And they would reward us.
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But sometimes when we tried to be independent or asked for what we needed, it was unpredictable and we were punished for that.
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So what we learned, and we probably carry through today as adults, is I must stay hyper aware and please people around me to stay safe.
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'cause that's what we learned as kids.
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I gotta make sure what they need and want from me and make sure I'm out of ahead of that and give them what they need and want.
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'cause if I don't do that, something bad's gonna happen.
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So what does this mean for us? There's this deep psychological impact that over time as children, we develop this chronic guilt.
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When we say no, we couldn't say no because people would be angry and rageful or give us a silent treatment.
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We'd have this fear of conflict or rejection because if I ask what I need, people are gonna be mad.
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They're gonna reject me, they're not gonna be here, they're gonna be upset.
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It's gonna be wrong.
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We don't know who we are.
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We don't even know what we want or what we need because we're constantly trying to please other people and make sure nobody's gonna be mad at me or they're not going to abandon me.
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And anxiety, when setting limits becomes normal.
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As an adult, we feel so anxious to ask for what we need 'cause somebody's gonna do this to us.
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We are acting out of that fear.
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And we feel responsible for other people's emotions.
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I can't set limits and boundaries and ask what I need because it's gonna make somebody upset or angry or hurt them.
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And so I don't, so this conditioning, this is what your nervous system learned, that boundaries and setting limits and asking for what my need, that's dangerous.
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And what we need to recognize is this is really important Truth.
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That's our nervous system learning a response, and it's conditional and we can unlearn it because your boundaries, they're not wrong.
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They were treated as wrong because they were treated and threatened.
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Somebody who was dependent on controlling you, they were dependent on them feeling good, they were narcissistic, they were worried about who they were and how they felt and what was going on.
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So children are supposed to develop boundaries and healthy parents help them practice boundaries, and they don't punish them for saying no or asking for space.
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Our istic parents are only worried about themselves, how they feel, how they're gonna look good, how they can't make a mistake, how they can't own feelings, how it's everybody else's fault, not their own healthy parents.
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Allow that to happen and don't punish people for that.
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Don't punish your kids for that.
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So now, if you're noticing any of this in your adult life.
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As you sit and listen to this podcast, know this, that many adults were raised experiencing this guilt when saying, no guilt when resting overexplaining.
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Every decision you make, feeling selfish for any basic need you have.
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Having anxiety after asking for what you need or saying no to somebody, you have this huge treat, tremendous anxiety that something is wrong and I've abandoned, somebody's abandoned and they're mad at me.
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And what I want you to recognize here is this is not weakness or craziness or stupidity or any of those things that is, you learned how to survive using those skills in turn tools, and you can't unlearn it and learn something new.
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So growing up where boundaries or limits were punished teaches you just to survive, it doesn't teach you to have life skills.
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It teaches you just to survive the moment you're in.
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So as an adult, the work is learning tools that help you live, not just stay safe, which is why I'm constantly saying, Hey, I want to give you the skills and tools you need to move your life forward because we're not about just having safety here.
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We're about you having skills and tools that actually let you live life.
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So we talk a lot about that re-parenting skill and developing that, those core abilities as adults that we need, that we didn't get if we lived in a narcissistic home.
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So we have to grow up and build those intentionally.
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So let's talk about how you build those intentionally.
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First, you've got to set limits and boundaries, and we talked about limits and boundaries in several podcasts, and you've gotta tolerate that anxiety that shows up afterwards.
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You've gotta recognize that is your nervous system saying, Hey, this is hard, this is difficult.
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Somebody's gonna abandon you and leave you, but they're not.
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Setting limits and boundaries is a skill and a tool, and the more you practice it without explaining yourself over and over, the more you allow other people to be disappointed.
