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Hello and welcome back to the podcast.
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My name is Billy Barnell and I am beyond thrilled to have joined me today to discuss that film
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Annette, Ron and Russell Mael of Sparks.
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Howdy guys.
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Hi there.
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Hi Billy.
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Lovely to meet you guys.
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So I thought I'd just start off with talking about cinema because really when it comes
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to you guys and your music and your careers, cinema is a huge part of it.
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It goes right back to the start of your careers, right back to the very first albums and you
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guys identify as film buffs, you reference films and filmmakers in your songs all the
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time.
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You know, like Orson Welles comes up a lot, I know, and songs like Rosebud and Occupation
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and all those great songs of yours.
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And I guess I wanted to ask you first off, do you guys still have that deep passion for
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cinema today?
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Do you go to the cinema a lot?
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Do you still keep abreast of what's going on in cinema today?
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Yeah, we do.
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You know, it's kind of made us a little bit more lazy as far as going to theaters.
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We feel guilty about that.
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But just the streaming now, the positive side of that is that you can see films that maybe
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wouldn't have even had a theatrical release.
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So you know, we really kind of stayed, you know, watching films.
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I mean, not for any reason other than we just enjoy it, you know.
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And you know, obviously, the passion for film was something that when the Annette Project
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came up, you know, it was just like a dream come true for us because first of all, to
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be working with a French filmmaker and then to have it being shown at the Cannes Film
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Festival as the opening film.
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I mean, that was like, you know, we couldn't have had a better fairy tale story than that.
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No, I guess not, because it was a long time in development, wasn't it?
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I mean, that was what I wanted to ask you about next, really, was because you obviously,
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you know, Leos Carricks was the director and he's such a formidable filmmaker and he has
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such a vision, really, with all of his films, you know, the handful that he's made.
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And I guess, you know, I know the project was a there was a long gestation project of
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obviously you guys developing it yourselves and then Leo became Leos became interested
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and what was your I just wanted to ask what your working process was like with Leos over
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that time of developing the film and making it.
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Yeah, we we kind of shared time between us going to Paris where he lives and then him
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coming to LA where we live.
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And it was a long kind of pre production period where, you know, he he kind of wanted to explore
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kind of expanding on some of the the, you know, the story elements that we had in our
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original version and kind of expanding them in certain ways.
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And so those discussions went on actually for and those meetings for several years after
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Leos had really, you know, signed on to to direct the film.
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And so, you know, there were scenes that were added that weren't in our original version,
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like the the ending, the abyss was Leos's idea.
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And so with that idea of the prison scene, he asked us if we could come up with music
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and then the and the lyrics to be able to convey that that scene that he wanted.
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And there were a couple of the the girl from the middle of nowhere that scene where Marianne
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Cotillard is kind of telling about her upbringing and how she got to be who she is now in in
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the in her character.
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That was I think Leos's idea wanted to have something that kind of addressed her situation
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a bit more than we had done in our original version.
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So there were a couple of things like that that we that then we, you know, after he had
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mentioned about doing that, we then you know, it's it's an untidy kind of situation when
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you're doing a movie musical because not only when the idea if it's from the director, whoever
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comes up to revise some elements, then it's you know, normally if it's just a you know,
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a non musical film, then you just adjust it in the screenplay to however you know, you
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can best do it.
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But when you have to do it as a musical, it's not only adjusting what's been written for
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the dialogue, but the dialogue in our case is incorporated into the music.
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So then the music has to be revised.
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And so that's also part of the reason why the process was as lengthy in the pre production
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because it's kind of an is an untidy way of working when when there's you know, notes
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are given about certain elements of the story.
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We were really fortunate, though, that Leos was sold on the kind of the basis of what
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and that was that it was a musical that was pretty wall to wall singing that it wasn't
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it was more in in kind of in line with like the umbrellas of Sherbrooke as far as being
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you know, everyday kind of incidents are things that people sing to it wasn't a thing where
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there's like eight songs that people break into song and start dancing in the street
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and then it goes back to dialogue.
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And so so he was sold on that and just and even just the basic story of the thing.
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You know, it it changed, but it didn't change, you know, in a way where it would be unrecognizable.
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And you know, we were flattered because this this was the first English language film that
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Leos had had done.
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And you know, he I mean, he he speaks kind of impeccable English is his mother's English.
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And so so but just that he had never made a film in English.
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And so we were it was really, you know, something special to us that this was the film that
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he chose.
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I can imagine.
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So especially as we know, he only makes a movie every so you know, 10 years or so.
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Yeah.
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I guess I like to talk about the cast of you guys for a little bit, because the cast is
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is quite an extraordinary cast.
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I mean, it's contained, but it's the talent that's in that cast is extraordinary.
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I mean, of course, you know, the leads being Adam Driver, Marion Cotillard, Simon Helberg
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and and watching the film back again in research for this interview, I was struck by how not
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only are they perfectly cast, but in so many different ways.
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It's like because there are so many threads in your music and not just in a net, but in
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your whole career, that those actors seem to just be perfectly in place to capture like
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like Adam Driver.
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You know, he's a great actor.
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And watching that, you know, and that was actually what made me realize this guy can
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do anything.
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You know, he can do literally anything, it seems.
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But he's so I mean, one of his great strengths to me is is he can depict anger and he can
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and being sardonic and that sort of dry humor, which is at the core of so many of your songs.
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And there's that dry element.
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And that's there's a bit of that frustrates element as well to songs.
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I think of songs off of Big B and off Gratu to Sax and all for your career, really.
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And then then Marion is also perfectly placed to play that the sweet romantic elements,
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the pure element and even Simon, you know, being the, you know, the accompanist, that
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frustrated character, you know, he's so desperately in love, but he's so frustrated.
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And how many spark songs are like that?
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And I guess with the casting, were they always yours and Leos's first choices?
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Well, you know, to be honest, it was Leos.
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Leos had suggested all three of those actors.
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But we we obviously were thrilled because I mean, initially it was Adam Driver was the
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first actor that was brought into the project.
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He was brought in several years before we actually shot the film.
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It was even at the time of HBO series Girls that that Leos kind of discovered him.
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Adam came over to our our studio and we met with him pretty early on in the process.
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And he just wanted to talk about, you know, the the style of the singing and all.
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And we were really, you know, just so happy because not only we think he's a great actor,
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but he was on the same page with us as far as the style of the singing, where we didn't
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want it to be like Broadway style singing, where it's really, you know, grand music,
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you know, the Broadway musical stereotypical singing, where we wanted it to be more naturalistic
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and just like a guy that, you know, happens to deliver his lines in a, you know, in a
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melodic way. And so Adam was totally in sync with that.
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And I think it's more comfortable for him. He's not like a, you know, a singer and he's
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a he's a really good singer, but not in a, you know, a schooled kind of way and that
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sort of way of Broadway tradition that's less exciting for us.
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So we got along really well in that sort of way.
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And I think also just both Marianne Cotillard and Simon Helberg also it was, you know, they
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they really did get the kind of the slant that we saw as the style of the singing.
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And obviously they're all really good actors. And then the question was, but how will it
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work for them to be able to also sing and act and in the style that we had all hoped
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for. But they all three of them really, you know, came through exactly what we, you know,
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we couldn't we couldn't have, you know, imagine anybody else doing any of the three roles
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and doing it better.
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And Leo's had an extra wrinkle kind of in it where he wanted all the singing to be done
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live on the set at the time of the shooting. And so that that's an extra complication in
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a technical way. It really posed challenges for the technicians. And also it probably
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put extra pressure on on the actors. But, you know, Leo's feeling was that maybe they
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would kind of perform in a way that was kind of stronger and more immediate if they if
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they actually sang while they were acting. And that was actually used, you know, probably
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90 percent of the time.
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Yeah. Well, it comes through. It's the singing is so raw and, you know, the way that, you
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know, like so many of those scenes are so emotional and like the way that Adam and Marion
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can obviously they're singing and they're singing their hearts out literally, but they're
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also acting their hearts out and being able to balance those. I mean, even just physically,
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that's a challenge. I know, like Marion was talking about how, you know, your breath cuts
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off if you sort of, you know, as a singer, if you get too emotionally, you know, if you're
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outpouring. So it's a hard one, I guess, opening out then a little bit in terms of you guys
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as storytellers. I mean, because to me, that's what you are for your music. And so Annette,
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obviously, is, I guess, the key example of your guys, one of the key examples of you
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guys having like a narrative approach and a story driven approach to what you're doing.
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But as well, the seduction of Ingmar Bergman is another one. I guess the other key one.
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But I mean, go all for your work, you know, even going right back to the beginning with
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those early albums and all the way through you guys. To me, it seems to take in such an
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interesting approach to crafting almost like short stories and short films in your songs.
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And I even thought and having that approach, I even think about like the structure of an
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album like Number One in Heaven, which I know is celebrating its anniversary this year,
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the kind of the birth to death structure of that from like the opening song to the ending
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song, you know, tryouts to Number One in Heaven. And I wanted to ask, do you guys see, think
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of yourselves as storytellers with what you're doing with your music?
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Yeah, I think so, because I think our approach to lyrics, it's kind of always been like that.
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I mean, there's so many songs that it can't make a complete generalization, but just that
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by and large, the songs are kind of detailed, where a lot of people write songs that are
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kind of a more general approach to issues. And we like to be really specific and kind
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of maybe evoking images in people's heads, you know, which through the music. And so
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I think it, you know, it differs from a lot of other pop songwriting in being really detailed
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and specific about things in it. And even if it doesn't always come across as a story
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with a beginning and middle and end, there's like kind of, you know, something going on
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within the song that isn't just floating out big generalities like, you know, love and
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hate and affection and those kinds of things that it's kind of demonstrated in a more specific
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way. And, you know, we've always, you know, it was never like setting out to do things
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in one way, but that's always been kind of our approach. I think it kind of maybe was
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influenced at the very beginning because we were huge fans of the early Who and the early
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Kinks and in their earlier songs, they were always like kind of vignettes and things that
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were plucked out of the real world, but that kind of had a meaning beyond even what they
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were specifically talking about. And so I think that was an influence on us. And, you
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know, we never are worried about appearing too precious about things. I mean, this is
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kind of the approach that we do. We can't really do it any other way.
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Well, the way you do it is wonderful, as they say. So going back to Annette, I mean, so
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the reception of that film was quite amazing, really, because you opened the Cannes Film
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Festival back in 2021. I remember the film coming out and hearing about it and Leos won
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Best Director and you guys won the César and the Lumiere Awards for Best Music. And
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I guess, you know, the film, you know, and it's a unique film. And I guess now that it's
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been a couple of years since it came out, I mean, what's your, what kind of reactions
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have you guys got to the movie? What memorable reactions have you guys personally got for
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the movie? Because it's such a unique film.
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I mean, it's, you know, I mean, we think it's really, you know, it is a really unique film.
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There's no real kind of comparisons. And I think the people that have sort of gravitated
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towards it, you know, they see something really unique and something that kind of is real
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singular in its whole approach and the story and the combination of those actors. So, you
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know, we've gotten really good, you know, really good feedback from it. And I think
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the Cannes Festival kind of event and everything that surrounded that and the Césars. And
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for us, it was really special that it was kind of the initial thrust was really from
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France. And so for us, we'd always been fans of French cinema. So to be part of like the
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Cannes Film Festival and to have the reception that had and then to win César Awards when
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we're Americans and all, it was just it's really bizarre, but bizarre in a really good
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way. So we're just, you know, we're excited because it's pretty unique situation. You
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know, something is, you know, even like a César Award for guys that aren't from France,
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you know. And so, you know, so we have really good memories about the initial period. And
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it's the kind of film, too, that I think is going to be re-examined, I think, you know,
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because the one really great thing about films is that they're not, you know, they kind of
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obviously live forever. And so people can reassess and rediscover the film. I think
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there's still, you know, still an audience out there that maybe hasn't even seen it yet.
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And at some point we'll discover it and, you know, and hopefully, you know, appreciate
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what it stands for.
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It was, you know, it was divisive in some ways. It wasn't to everybody's taste, but
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the people that did like it really liked it passionately. And that's kind of all you can
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hope for. I mean, we've never been, well, seldom. I mean, once or twice we've been locked
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into certain situations where something we've done has been more universal. But in general,
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what we do, it strikes a certain group of people in a really deep way, but other people
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just aren't a part of that, you know, process. And so, you know, that's just the way it is.
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You know, we were really proud, though, that the film was kind of accepted. I mean, the
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two places where it kind of did have the most acceptance were both France and Japan. And,
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you know, Japan was, they tend, you know, stereotyping, but they tend to like French
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things in general. But it reached people that were, even the English language wasn't the
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first language, but it was reaching them in a really emotional way. And so, you know,
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we were doing Q&As in Japanese theaters, and it was really an exceptional thing that people
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that were real cinema buffs there really grabbed a hold of that, of the film. You know, we
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don't have any regrets at all, you know, about it. And, you know, the time it took to get
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the film made, part of that was that we were, that the, that cast was able to be assembled
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because that's such a key part of what Annette is.
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And also, Leos is just passion for kind of nine years of development to focus, you know,
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singularly on this project. He didn't have other projects. A lot of directors have, you
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know, a lot of things in their arsenal of projects, but Leos had this one film. And
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so to his credit, too, he kind of focused so much on it, which was, you know, which
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was great to have that kind of, that's the only way you can get something made like that,
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is to have that kind of passion from the team and the director and producers. So that really
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worked to our advantage.
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Absolutely. I mean, I'm so intrigued and excited to show this to an audience of students
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who have probably no idea what they're going to be in for, because, you know, there's so
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much joy in showing, presenting something that is so interesting and so, you know, ultra,
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you know, I guess like people my age and younger, you know, probably don't have a reference
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point for it. So it's very exciting for that prospect. Yeah. So opening it out again, so
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the I wanted to ask you guys about the last year really, because I think it's fair to
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say from my perspective anyway, that it's been quite a tumultuous, huge year for you
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guys. I mean, the Latte Tour, your latest album, Girl is Crying in a Latte, which I
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loved. The tour for that was huge for you guys. I mean, you were playing so many massive
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venues like the Hollywood Bowl and the Albert Hall. I mean, I came along and saw you at
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the Albert Hall and it was a fantastic, fantastic night. I mean, just as a fan and it felt like
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the culmination of all the momentum of things like Overnet, Edgar Wright's Sparks River
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documentary, which I also love and the album, of course. And being a fan in the audience,
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you know, seeing you guys on stage and receiving all this love and all this passion, it was
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quite profound. It was very heartening to me as a fan. And I can only imagine what it
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must have been like for you guys. And I guess that's just what I wanted to ask was, yeah,
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what was it like for you guys, especially now it's been a few months in hindsight now,
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you know. Yeah. I mean, it was as moving for us as it sounds like it was for, you know,
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places like the Royal Albert Hall for us, especially as Americans, it's iconic and
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it symbolizes something. And, you know, when we were growing up, you know, you hear about
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groups playing there and songs that reference the Royal Albert Hall and all day in the life,
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you know. And then so to one day, because we were such anglophiles, then to one day
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be actually playing there and doing two shows and all. And, you know, it was really special
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to see in, you know, and also to see how the effect of Annette and the effect of Edgar
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Wright's documentary and the latest album kind of all coming together at the same time
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and to see how that kind of translated to being able to play bigger places like Albert
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Hall and the Hollywood Bowl here in LA. And we just, the end of the tour, we played the
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Sydney Opera House as well, which is another just iconic venue, which was meant a lot to
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us to be able to play now at this point. So, yeah, so all that stuff was really, you know,
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that tour, the tour was, you know, really special. And then for us too, it also is something
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that we feel that us doing film work, just it isn't like it's a separate thing from
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Sparks. It's all kind of one and the same for us. And so the film work we think really
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also helps Sparks and then Sparks people also hopefully the other way, you know, gravitate
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towards the films that we're doing too. So we consider it all just kind of one in the
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same.
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Yeah, well, I mean, as I say, being in the audience for those shows and seeing you guys
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getting all this love was amazing. And even just running into some of the fans at the
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shows who were in the documentary, it was quite, it was so strange and surreal. It was
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wonderful. I guess then, so having had the careers you guys have had, the extraordinary
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careers over 50 years, and gone through all that you've gone through and produced so much
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amazing work and music. What advice would you give to someone starting out now who wants
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to be say, working music or work in film or any of those creative fields? What advice
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would you give?
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Well, I mean, it takes a lot of stamina and kind of self belief. I think it's actually
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harder now because when we started off, people, you know, just speaking about records that
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record companies, they would stick by you if they just thought you were cool for, you
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know, a few, a few albums. And now it's like, make it quick or else you're in trouble. So
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I think it in that in that sense, it's more difficult. But I think, you know, you just
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have to kind of always assume that you're right in what you're in what you're doing,
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you know, and when we first started working on the in the film area, we had kind of tinkered
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a little bit with soundtracks. And we, but we realized that our strength is really more
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in in merging vocals with with music within a cinematic context. And so kind of soundtracks
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were something that we really have much less interest in. And so, you know, but also we
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also felt it was kind of presumptuous of us to be saying that we could write a narrative
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piece that was two hours long. And so we you know, we just kind of did it and it kind of
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worked out and there were a few people accepting of it. And so you just kind of have to, you
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know, dive, dive in, you know, and and and hope that you find the right right people.
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It's it's really hard to kind of sell what you're doing to other people. But if you're
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lucky enough and somebody discovers it and and it's what they're kind of looking for,
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you know, you're that's that's the position we've been fortunate enough to be in for for
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a lot of the time, both in with it with our with the Sparks music and also with with film.
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So I mean, it's just it's difficult to make career suggestions because we kind of don't
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even think and we don't even plan anything. You know, things just happen. And and and
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for us to be here at this point, you know, so many years after, you know, starting off,
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it's kind of incredibly surreal and just but it also is we want to see how far we can kind
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of continue to push things both from the Sparks standpoint, but also, you know, we're working
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on a new movie musical now and and it's, you know, moving forward, you know, you never
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you never know until it's actually done, but it's looking good. And we're we're very eager
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for this project to stand beside Annette.
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Well, there was an interview I just saw recently with Tom Hanks and it was in a way it was
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kind of depressing because he is coming from Tom Hanks and he said that it's a miracle
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that any movie gets made and kind of that's depressing on one hand, especially coming
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from somebody that seems like he can make anything he wants to make. And so so we don't
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take it for granted. I mean, we're in one way, you're kind of happy to hear that it's
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it's always that way. You know, with Annette, it was, you know, there were a lot of issues
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just, you know, to get producers involved. Even once we had Leos Carracks, there's always
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a battle, there's a battle with studios. But if you're just, you know, passionate about
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the project, passionate about what you do, hopefully it will rise above all the the nonsense
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that kind of surrounds surrounds making a movie. So just hang in.
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Hang in there. Wonderful, guys. Well, I'm aware that our 30 minutes are up. I mean,
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I could keep talking to you guys all day, honestly, I could honestly I could I could
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ask you something questions about Annette and all of your albums, to be honest. I mean,
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I love them all. And but I know that we're running out of time. But I guess if I can
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fit in one 10 second question. Oh, my God, what happened? The lights are gone. Hold on.
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Hold on. Oh, my God. Okay. Oh, let me just turn this up. Okay. It's okay. The lights
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have just gone off. I don't know why. Ron, any are there any plans to bring back the
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lyrically speaking videos? I'm sorry. Are there any plans to bring back the lyrically
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speaking videos that you used to do? The the lyrically speaking the ones where you read
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those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that yeah, I mean, just to explain that we we during
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during the pandemic, you know, it was difficult for every band, but for us as well, just to
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be able to present ourselves to people in a live context. And so so I did once a week,
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I would do a dramatic recitation of of one of our songs. So there were, I think there
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were like 52 of them one for a year. And then I thought maybe I was overstaying my welcome.
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But you know, I'd like to do that again. I mean, I always felt in the past that that
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just emphasizing only the lyrics was was not really what we were setting out to do, because
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we always felt that the music and the lyrics are kind of one. But I could see the the the
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impact of that. And and I really enjoyed doing it as well as an amateur thespian.
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But there was just something glorious about you particularly. So put your fucking iPhone
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down and listen to me was was particularly particularly glorious. So if you if you ever
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decide to come back with those, I mean, so many songs off of latte would be amazing
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just to hear the lyrics. But anyway, that's just a fan request. Anyway, okay. Yes, next
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pandemic. I don't want to cross my fingers for that. But that would be wonderful. Okay,
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guys. Well, like I said, I've kept you a little bit longer. So sorry about that. But thank
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you so much. And I don't know they've obviously the lights that you know, the electricity
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is gone. So I don't know what's going on. But but again, thank you so much for your
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time, guys. As a fan, this was a bit of a dream come true for me. So and I and I look
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forward to whatever you guys do next. I'm there. Great. Thank you. Really good speaking
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with you. Good talking with you. Thanks, guys. Okay. Have a good rest of your day. Thank
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you. Bye bye. Bye bye.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,320
Hello and welcome back to the podcast.
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My name is Billy Barnell and I am beyond thrilled to have joined me today to discuss that film
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Annette, Ron and Russell Mael of Sparks.
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Howdy guys.
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Hi there.
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Hi Billy.
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Lovely to meet you guys.
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So I thought I'd just start off with talking about cinema because really when it comes
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to you guys and your music and your careers, cinema is a huge part of it.
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It goes right back to the start of your careers, right back to the very first albums and you
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guys identify as film buffs, you reference films and filmmakers in your songs all the
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time.
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You know, like Orson Welles comes up a lot, I know, and songs like Rosebud and Occupation
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and all those great songs of yours.
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And I guess I wanted to ask you first off, do you guys still have that deep passion for
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cinema today?
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Do you go to the cinema a lot?
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Do you still keep abreast of what's going on in cinema today?
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Yeah, we do.
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You know, it's kind of made us a little bit more lazy as far as going to theaters.
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We feel guilty about that.
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But just the streaming now, the positive side of that is that you can see films that maybe
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wouldn't have even had a theatrical release.
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So you know, we really kind of stayed, you know, watching films.
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I mean, not for any reason other than we just enjoy it, you know.
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And you know, obviously, the passion for film was something that when the Annette Project
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came up, you know, it was just like a dream come true for us because first of all, to
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be working with a French filmmaker and then to have it being shown at the Cannes Film
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Festival as the opening film.
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I mean, that was like, you know, we couldn't have had a better fairy tale story than that.
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No, I guess not, because it was a long time in development, wasn't it?
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I mean, that was what I wanted to ask you about next, really, was because you obviously,
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you know, Leos Carricks was the director and he's such a formidable filmmaker and he has
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such a vision, really, with all of his films, you know, the handful that he's made.
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And I guess, you know, I know the project was a there was a long gestation project of
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obviously you guys developing it yourselves and then Leo became Leos became interested
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and what was your I just wanted to ask what your working process was like with Leos over
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that time of developing the film and making it.
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Yeah, we we kind of shared time between us going to Paris where he lives and then him
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coming to LA where we live.
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And it was a long kind of pre production period where, you know, he he kind of wanted to explore
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kind of expanding on some of the the, you know, the story elements that we had in our
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original version and kind of expanding them in certain ways.
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And so those discussions went on actually for and those meetings for several years after
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Leos had really, you know, signed on to to direct the film.
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And so, you know, there were scenes that were added that weren't in our original version,
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like the the ending, the abyss was Leos's idea.
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And so with that idea of the prison scene, he asked us if we could come up with music
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and then the and the lyrics to be able to convey that that scene that he wanted.
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And there were a couple of the the girl from the middle of nowhere that scene where Marianne
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Cotillard is kind of telling about her upbringing and how she got to be who she is now in in
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the in her character.
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That was I think Leos's idea wanted to have something that kind of addressed her situation
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a bit more than we had done in our original version.
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So there were a couple of things like that that we that then we, you know, after he had
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mentioned about doing that, we then you know, it's it's an untidy kind of situation when
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you're doing a movie musical because not only when the idea if it's from the director, whoever
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comes up to revise some elements, then it's you know, normally if it's just a you know,
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a non musical film, then you just adjust it in the screenplay to however you know, you
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can best do it.
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But when you have to do it as a musical, it's not only adjusting what's been written for
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the dialogue, but the dialogue in our case is incorporated into the music.
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So then the music has to be revised.
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And so that's also part of the reason why the process was as lengthy in the pre production
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because it's kind of an is an untidy way of working when when there's you know, notes
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are given about certain elements of the story.
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We were really fortunate, though, that Leos was sold on the kind of the basis of what
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and that was that it was a musical that was pretty wall to wall singing that it wasn't
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it was more in in kind of in line with like the umbrellas of Sherbrooke as far as being
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you know, everyday kind of incidents are things that people sing to it wasn't a thing where
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there's like eight songs that people break into song and start dancing in the street
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and then it goes back to dialogue.
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And so so he was sold on that and just and even just the basic story of the thing.
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You know, it it changed, but it didn't change, you know, in a way where it would be unrecognizable.
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And you know, we were flattered because this this was the first English language film that
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Leos had had done.
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And you know, he I mean, he he speaks kind of impeccable English is his mother's English.
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And so so but just that he had never made a film in English.
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And so we were it was really, you know, something special to us that this was the film that
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he chose.
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I can imagine.
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So especially as we know, he only makes a movie every so you know, 10 years or so.
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Yeah.
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I guess I like to talk about the cast of you guys for a little bit, because the cast is
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is quite an extraordinary cast.
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I mean, it's contained, but it's the talent that's in that cast is extraordinary.
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I mean, of course, you know, the leads being Adam Driver, Marion Cotillard, Simon Helberg
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and and watching the film back again in research for this interview, I was struck by how not
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only are they perfectly cast, but in so many different ways.
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It's like because there are so many threads in your music and not just in a net, but in
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your whole career, that those actors seem to just be perfectly in place to capture like
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like Adam Driver.
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You know, he's a great actor.
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And watching that, you know, and that was actually what made me realize this guy can
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do anything.
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You know, he can do literally anything, it seems.
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But he's so I mean, one of his great strengths to me is is he can depict anger and he can
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and being sardonic and that sort of dry humor, which is at the core of so many of your songs.
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And there's that dry element.
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And that's there's a bit of that frustrates element as well to songs.
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I think of songs off of Big B and off Gratu to Sax and all for your career, really.
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And then then Marion is also perfectly placed to play that the sweet romantic elements,
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the pure element and even Simon, you know, being the, you know, the accompanist, that
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frustrated character, you know, he's so desperately in love, but he's so frustrated.
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And how many spark songs are like that?
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And I guess with the casting, were they always yours and Leos's first choices?
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Well, you know, to be honest, it was Leos.
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Leos had suggested all three of those actors.
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But we we obviously were thrilled because I mean, initially it was Adam Driver was the
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first actor that was brought into the project.
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He was brought in several years before we actually shot the film.
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It was even at the time of HBO series Girls that that Leos kind of discovered him.
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Adam came over to our our studio and we met with him pretty early on in the process.
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And he just wanted to talk about, you know, the the style of the singing and all.
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And we were really, you know, just so happy because not only we think he's a great actor,
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but he was on the same page with us as far as the style of the singing, where we didn't
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want it to be like Broadway style singing, where it's really, you know, grand music,
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you know, the Broadway musical stereotypical singing, where we wanted it to be more naturalistic
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and just like a guy that, you know, happens to deliver his lines in a, you know, in a
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melodic way. And so Adam was totally in sync with that.
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And I think it's more comfortable for him. He's not like a, you know, a singer and he's
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a he's a really good singer, but not in a, you know, a schooled kind of way and that
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sort of way of Broadway tradition that's less exciting for us.
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So we got along really well in that sort of way.
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And I think also just both Marianne Cotillard and Simon Helberg also it was, you know, they
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they really did get the kind of the slant that we saw as the style of the singing.
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And obviously they're all really good actors. And then the question was, but how will it
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work for them to be able to also sing and act and in the style that we had all hoped
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for. But they all three of them really, you know, came through exactly what we, you know,
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we couldn't we couldn't have, you know, imagine anybody else doing any of the three roles
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and doing it better.
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And Leo's had an extra wrinkle kind of in it where he wanted all the singing to be done
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live on the set at the time of the shooting. And so that that's an extra complication in
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a technical way. It really posed challenges for the technicians. And also it probably
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put extra pressure on on the actors. But, you know, Leo's feeling was that maybe they
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would kind of perform in a way that was kind of stronger and more immediate if they if
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they actually sang while they were acting. And that was actually used, you know, probably
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90 percent of the time.
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Yeah. Well, it comes through. It's the singing is so raw and, you know, the way that, you
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know, like so many of those scenes are so emotional and like the way that Adam and Marion
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can obviously they're singing and they're singing their hearts out literally, but they're
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also acting their hearts out and being able to balance those. I mean, even just physically,
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that's a challenge. I know, like Marion was talking about how, you know, your breath cuts
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off if you sort of, you know, as a singer, if you get too emotionally, you know, if you're
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outpouring. So it's a hard one, I guess, opening out then a little bit in terms of you guys
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as storytellers. I mean, because to me, that's what you are for your music. And so Annette,
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obviously, is, I guess, the key example of your guys, one of the key examples of you
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guys having like a narrative approach and a story driven approach to what you're doing.
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But as well, the seduction of Ingmar Bergman is another one. I guess the other key one.
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But I mean, go all for your work, you know, even going right back to the beginning with
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those early albums and all the way through you guys. To me, it seems to take in such an
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interesting approach to crafting almost like short stories and short films in your songs.
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And I even thought and having that approach, I even think about like the structure of an
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album like Number One in Heaven, which I know is celebrating its anniversary this year,
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the kind of the birth to death structure of that from like the opening song to the ending
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song, you know, tryouts to Number One in Heaven. And I wanted to ask, do you guys see, think
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of yourselves as storytellers with what you're doing with your music?
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Yeah, I think so, because I think our approach to lyrics, it's kind of always been like that.
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I mean, there's so many songs that it can't make a complete generalization, but just that
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by and large, the songs are kind of detailed, where a lot of people write songs that are
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kind of a more general approach to issues. And we like to be really specific and kind
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of maybe evoking images in people's heads, you know, which through the music. And so
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I think it, you know, it differs from a lot of other pop songwriting in being really detailed
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and specific about things in it. And even if it doesn't always come across as a story
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with a beginning and middle and end, there's like kind of, you know, something going on
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within the song that isn't just floating out big generalities like, you know, love and
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hate and affection and those kinds of things that it's kind of demonstrated in a more specific
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way. And, you know, we've always, you know, it was never like setting out to do things
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in one way, but that's always been kind of our approach. I think it kind of maybe was
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influenced at the very beginning because we were huge fans of the early Who and the early
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Kinks and in their earlier songs, they were always like kind of vignettes and things that
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were plucked out of the real world, but that kind of had a meaning beyond even what they
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were specifically talking about. And so I think that was an influence on us. And, you
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know, we never are worried about appearing too precious about things. I mean, this is
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kind of the approach that we do. We can't really do it any other way.
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Well, the way you do it is wonderful, as they say. So going back to Annette, I mean, so
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the reception of that film was quite amazing, really, because you opened the Cannes Film
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Festival back in 2021. I remember the film coming out and hearing about it and Leos won
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Best Director and you guys won the César and the Lumiere Awards for Best Music. And
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I guess, you know, the film, you know, and it's a unique film. And I guess now that it's
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been a couple of years since it came out, I mean, what's your, what kind of reactions
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have you guys got to the movie? What memorable reactions have you guys personally got for
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the movie? Because it's such a unique film.
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I mean, it's, you know, I mean, we think it's really, you know, it is a really unique film.
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There's no real kind of comparisons. And I think the people that have sort of gravitated
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towards it, you know, they see something really unique and something that kind of is real
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singular in its whole approach and the story and the combination of those actors. So, you
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know, we've gotten really good, you know, really good feedback from it. And I think
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the Cannes Festival kind of event and everything that surrounded that and the Césars. And
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for us, it was really special that it was kind of the initial thrust was really from
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France. And so for us, we'd always been fans of French cinema. So to be part of like the
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Cannes Film Festival and to have the reception that had and then to win César Awards when
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we're Americans and all, it was just it's really bizarre, but bizarre in a really good
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way. So we're just, you know, we're excited because it's pretty unique situation. You
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know, something is, you know, even like a César Award for guys that aren't from France,
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you know. And so, you know, so we have really good memories about the initial period. And
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it's the kind of film, too, that I think is going to be re-examined, I think, you know,
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because the one really great thing about films is that they're not, you know, they kind of
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obviously live forever. And so people can reassess and rediscover the film. I think
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there's still, you know, still an audience out there that maybe hasn't even seen it yet.
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And at some point we'll discover it and, you know, and hopefully, you know, appreciate
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what it stands for.
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It was, you know, it was divisive in some ways. It wasn't to everybody's taste, but
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the people that did like it really liked it passionately. And that's kind of all you can
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hope for. I mean, we've never been, well, seldom. I mean, once or twice we've been locked
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into certain situations where something we've done has been more universal. But in general,
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what we do, it strikes a certain group of people in a really deep way, but other people
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just aren't a part of that, you know, process. And so, you know, that's just the way it is.
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You know, we were really proud, though, that the film was kind of accepted. I mean, the
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two places where it kind of did have the most acceptance were both France and Japan. And,
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you know, Japan was, they tend, you know, stereotyping, but they tend to like French
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things in general. But it reached people that were, even the English language wasn't the
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first language, but it was reaching them in a really emotional way. And so, you know,
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we were doing Q&As in Japanese theaters, and it was really an exceptional thing that people
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that were real cinema buffs there really grabbed a hold of that, of the film. You know, we
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don't have any regrets at all, you know, about it. And, you know, the time it took to get
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the film made, part of that was that we were, that the, that cast was able to be assembled
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because that's such a key part of what Annette is.
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And also, Leos is just passion for kind of nine years of development to focus, you know,
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singularly on this project. He didn't have other projects. A lot of directors have, you
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know, a lot of things in their arsenal of projects, but Leos had this one film. And
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so to his credit, too, he kind of focused so much on it, which was, you know, which
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was great to have that kind of, that's the only way you can get something made like that,
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is to have that kind of passion from the team and the director and producers. So that really
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worked to our advantage.
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Absolutely. I mean, I'm so intrigued and excited to show this to an audience of students
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who have probably no idea what they're going to be in for, because, you know, there's so
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much joy in showing, presenting something that is so interesting and so, you know, ultra,
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you know, I guess like people my age and younger, you know, probably don't have a reference
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point for it. So it's very exciting for that prospect. Yeah. So opening it out again, so
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the I wanted to ask you guys about the last year really, because I think it's fair to
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say from my perspective anyway, that it's been quite a tumultuous, huge year for you
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guys. I mean, the Latte Tour, your latest album, Girl is Crying in a Latte, which I
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loved. The tour for that was huge for you guys. I mean, you were playing so many massive
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venues like the Hollywood Bowl and the Albert Hall. I mean, I came along and saw you at
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the Albert Hall and it was a fantastic, fantastic night. I mean, just as a fan and it felt like
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the culmination of all the momentum of things like Overnet, Edgar Wright's Sparks River
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documentary, which I also love and the album, of course. And being a fan in the audience,
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you know, seeing you guys on stage and receiving all this love and all this passion, it was
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quite profound. It was very heartening to me as a fan. And I can only imagine what it
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must have been like for you guys. And I guess that's just what I wanted to ask was, yeah,
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what was it like for you guys, especially now it's been a few months in hindsight now,
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you know. Yeah. I mean, it was as moving for us as it sounds like it was for, you know,
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places like the Royal Albert Hall for us, especially as Americans, it's iconic and
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it symbolizes something. And, you know, when we were growing up, you know, you hear about
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groups playing there and songs that reference the Royal Albert Hall and all day in the life,
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you know. And then so to one day, because we were such anglophiles, then to one day
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be actually playing there and doing two shows and all. And, you know, it was really special
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to see in, you know, and also to see how the effect of Annette and the effect of Edgar
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Wright's documentary and the latest album kind of all coming together at the same time
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and to see how that kind of translated to being able to play bigger places like Albert
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Hall and the Hollywood Bowl here in LA. And we just, the end of the tour, we played the
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Sydney Opera House as well, which is another just iconic venue, which was meant a lot to
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us to be able to play now at this point. So, yeah, so all that stuff was really, you know,
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that tour, the tour was, you know, really special. And then for us too, it also is something
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that we feel that us doing film work, just it isn't like it's a separate thing from
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Sparks. It's all kind of one and the same for us. And so the film work we think really
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also helps Sparks and then Sparks people also hopefully the other way, you know, gravitate
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towards the films that we're doing too. So we consider it all just kind of one in the
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same.
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Yeah, well, I mean, as I say, being in the audience for those shows and seeing you guys
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getting all this love was amazing. And even just running into some of the fans at the
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shows who were in the documentary, it was quite, it was so strange and surreal. It was
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wonderful. I guess then, so having had the careers you guys have had, the extraordinary
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careers over 50 years, and gone through all that you've gone through and produced so much
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amazing work and music. What advice would you give to someone starting out now who wants
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to be say, working music or work in film or any of those creative fields? What advice
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would you give?
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Well, I mean, it takes a lot of stamina and kind of self belief. I think it's actually
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harder now because when we started off, people, you know, just speaking about records that
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record companies, they would stick by you if they just thought you were cool for, you
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know, a few, a few albums. And now it's like, make it quick or else you're in trouble. So
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I think it in that in that sense, it's more difficult. But I think, you know, you just
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have to kind of always assume that you're right in what you're in what you're doing,
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you know, and when we first started working on the in the film area, we had kind of tinkered
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a little bit with soundtracks. And we, but we realized that our strength is really more
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in in merging vocals with with music within a cinematic context. And so kind of soundtracks
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were something that we really have much less interest in. And so, you know, but also we
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also felt it was kind of presumptuous of us to be saying that we could write a narrative
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piece that was two hours long. And so we you know, we just kind of did it and it kind of
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worked out and there were a few people accepting of it. And so you just kind of have to, you
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know, dive, dive in, you know, and and and hope that you find the right right people.
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It's it's really hard to kind of sell what you're doing to other people. But if you're
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lucky enough and somebody discovers it and and it's what they're kind of looking for,
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you know, you're that's that's the position we've been fortunate enough to be in for for
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a lot of the time, both in with it with our with the Sparks music and also with with film.
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So I mean, it's just it's difficult to make career suggestions because we kind of don't
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even think and we don't even plan anything. You know, things just happen. And and and
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for us to be here at this point, you know, so many years after, you know, starting off,
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it's kind of incredibly surreal and just but it also is we want to see how far we can kind
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of continue to push things both from the Sparks standpoint, but also, you know, we're working
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on a new movie musical now and and it's, you know, moving forward, you know, you never
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you never know until it's actually done, but it's looking good. And we're we're very eager
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for this project to stand beside Annette.
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Well, there was an interview I just saw recently with Tom Hanks and it was in a way it was
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kind of depressing because he is coming from Tom Hanks and he said that it's a miracle
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that any movie gets made and kind of that's depressing on one hand, especially coming
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from somebody that seems like he can make anything he wants to make. And so so we don't
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take it for granted. I mean, we're in one way, you're kind of happy to hear that it's
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it's always that way. You know, with Annette, it was, you know, there were a lot of issues
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just, you know, to get producers involved. Even once we had Leos Carracks, there's always
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a battle, there's a battle with studios. But if you're just, you know, passionate about
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the project, passionate about what you do, hopefully it will rise above all the the nonsense
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that kind of surrounds surrounds making a movie. So just hang in.
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Hang in there. Wonderful, guys. Well, I'm aware that our 30 minutes are up. I mean,
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I could keep talking to you guys all day, honestly, I could honestly I could I could
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ask you something questions about Annette and all of your albums, to be honest. I mean,
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I love them all. And but I know that we're running out of time. But I guess if I can
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fit in one 10 second question. Oh, my God, what happened? The lights are gone. Hold on.
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Hold on. Oh, my God. Okay. Oh, let me just turn this up. Okay. It's okay. The lights
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have just gone off. I don't know why. Ron, any are there any plans to bring back the
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lyrically speaking videos? I'm sorry. Are there any plans to bring back the lyrically
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speaking videos that you used to do? The the lyrically speaking the ones where you read
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those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that yeah, I mean, just to explain that we we during
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during the pandemic, you know, it was difficult for every band, but for us as well, just to
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be able to present ourselves to people in a live context. And so so I did once a week,
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I would do a dramatic recitation of of one of our songs. So there were, I think there
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were like 52 of them one for a year. And then I thought maybe I was overstaying my welcome.
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But you know, I'd like to do that again. I mean, I always felt in the past that that
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just emphasizing only the lyrics was was not really what we were setting out to do, because
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we always felt that the music and the lyrics are kind of one. But I could see the the the
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impact of that. And and I really enjoyed doing it as well as an amateur thespian.
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But there was just something glorious about you particularly. So put your fucking iPhone
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down and listen to me was was particularly particularly glorious. So if you if you ever
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decide to come back with those, I mean, so many songs off of latte would be amazing
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just to hear the lyrics. But anyway, that's just a fan request. Anyway, okay. Yes, next
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pandemic. I don't want to cross my fingers for that. But that would be wonderful. Okay,
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guys. Well, like I said, I've kept you a little bit longer. So sorry about that. But thank
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you so much. And I don't know they've obviously the lights that you know, the electricity
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is gone. So I don't know what's going on. But but again, thank you so much for your
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time, guys. As a fan, this was a bit of a dream come true for me. So and I and I look
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forward to whatever you guys do next. I'm there. Great. Thank you. Really good speaking
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with you. Good talking with you. Thanks, guys. Okay. Have a good rest of your day. Thank
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you. Bye bye. Bye bye.
