A Developer's Thoughts on Rivals

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another installment of the
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Ghost Comms podcast. I am your host, Jatman. And today
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I am joined by someone who is well known in
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the Rivals community as an educational content creator. He has
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had a past and present career in game development, which
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I think gives him some really interesting insight into how
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the game works. You know, the developer side of balancing
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and all of those things. I have Death in Gaming
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with me here today.
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Thank you for joining me. Yeah, thank you for having
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me on. Yeah.
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So, you know, I know that you appear on a
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lot of the Rivals podcasts talking specifically about kind of
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the game and, you know, balance and stuff like that.
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But I kind of want to get to you and
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like what, you know, what you do and why you're
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kind of unique in what you do.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So, you know, you have a history developing games, both
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Indie and AAA. Is that correct?
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Yep. That is correct.
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Tell me how that started. How did you get into
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that and how long have you been doing that for?
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I have been doing that, I think, for I've been
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in game development for 15 years now. I have been
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working as a 3D artist. I have made props, environments, characters,
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you name it. I've also done physics work as well
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as some tech art on those sides, tools design, as
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well as On my first job, I did some systems design.
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And that's not normally what most game developers do. Usually
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when you are a game developer, they find something you're
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good at and then you kind of get pitch and
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held into that one thing. I am a developer that
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just is, you can kind of place me anywhere in
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a lot of places. And a lot of times I'll
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get hired to do one job and then I'll be like,
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oh man, if only we had someone that could help
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out over here. And I'm like, oh, well, I understand
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how to do that. And they're like, oh, well, was
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move you around. So it's a benefit when you're working
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at the company, cause all companies, of course, you know,
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it's good to have someone that has multiple, uh, multiple skills,
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but it, I will say it's difficult to explain on
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a resume when they're like, so are you a designer
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or are you an artist? Or are you like, sure.
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And I'm like, man, I just, I just take, I
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just love video games so much that I am passionate
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about all, all different sides of the development, except for programming. I,
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I can't program at all. That is, that takes a
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completely different person. Uh, but at least I understand how
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to communicate to them. So that's a skill as well.
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But you know, from when I was very young, uh,
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my first console was the first Nintendo and I had Mario,
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the Mario duck hunt on Nintendo. And, uh, I was
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also doing art from a young age. So when it
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got to be in high school time, it's like, Oh,
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what are you going to do for a living? It's like, well,
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you know, going into game development's a possibility. So I
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guess I'll do that because literally all I've done my
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entire life is art and video games. So I joke
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all the time, but I'm like, if you put me
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anywhere else, I don't know where I'd get, where I'd go.
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Like if this was, you know, if I was born in,
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you know, uh, 1886, uh, what would I have done
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back then? Cause there's no video games. I feel kind
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of useless without them. So, you know, it was a
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natural progression. And, um, my first job was working on
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an MMO called wild star, uh, way back in the
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day I was a prop artist and, you know, I
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did prop art there, eventually moved to systems design before
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I left. And then I worked on another AAA title
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after that for the order in 1886. And, uh, that
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was a, that was for the PlayStation four, I believe. And, um,
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after that, I, after once you work in AAA, it
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sounds really great, but then you start to work under
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like the red tape of corporate and you have, you know, uh,
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long crunch hours and you kind of get seen as
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like a number on paper. I thought I would always
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want to be working on those big titles and have
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something under my belt. And then I, as I, as
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many people in the game industry do, you eventually want
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to have a better work-life balance and you either take
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a job away from the industry or you take maybe
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a smaller job or you just find a place to
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work and you just keep your head down and you
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just kind of say, whatever, a paycheck is a paycheck.
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So for me, I went to Indie and I've been
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working on, VR titles that aren't as pretty as the
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AAA titles, of course, but when you've got a year
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to work on a title versus three years with a
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team that is a sixteenth of the size, there's only
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so much you can do. However, I am a firm
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believer that game art doesn't really matter that much. Games
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are fun based off of how well they play, not
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off of how well they look, and there's a lot
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of amazing games out there that don't need to have
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good visuals, and that was something that I'm a firm
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believer on, that game companies put too much into the
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game art and not enough into the content side. And
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I say that as an artist. Are you talking.
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Specifically about the hyper-realistic? Because there's this obsession with it,
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it seems like, in the industry right now of we're
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going to make it look as realistic as possible. And
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at least the people that I know don't actually want
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that in their games. I like a unique, expressive art style.
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Yeah. No, that's definitely a trend that I don't like either.
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I am not a fan, especially of, you know, trying
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to make something hyper-realistic because hyper-realistic doesn't last the test
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of time as much as, you know, games that have
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a style to them. I'm not sure if you saw
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Marvel Rivals showed its early development station like GDC. Yes,
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that clip of the Chinese beta. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That
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was terrible. It looked so bad. It looked really, it
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lost all of it. It didn't have any of that
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style yet. Yeah, yeah. you know, as they shifted more
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towards it has now, it has so much style to
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it has so much uniqueness and they really did an
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amazing job, uh, changing to something that is going to
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last much longer for the test of time. But, you know,
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for a lot, a lot of, uh, game developers, a
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lot of game companies, you know, realism is kind of,
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it's impressive if you do it right. but it's also
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more time consuming. And for, in my experience, me personally,
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I think it's way less fun than doing the hand
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painted textures because, you know, it, it doesn't offer you
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sort of that way of being creative and getting artistic
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with it. But the thing is, is that when you
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are a developer and you're trying to pitch to a publisher,
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pitch to the people who have money, the people who
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have money like to see the oh, how realistic can
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it look or how great can you get the graphics
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to look? And that's one of the difficult sides of
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game development is that you are trying to convince people
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who have money that don't play games to give you
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money to make a game. And, you know, a lot
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of times those stylized games or those games that are
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a little more outside the box don't translate well to
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somebody that can't quite see the vision. So... You know,
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that's and it's very difficult to even with all of
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the modern technology and everything to make something look realistic
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because games are still smoke and mirrors. We you know,
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I see people complain all the time on online about
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games like, oh, this doesn't have these realistic graphics or
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this doesn't look perfectly right in this scenario. And I'm like, guys,
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it's a video game. It cannot render those things. It's
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physically impossible to do everything like just. you know, get
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lost in the immersion of the entire thing. Don't focus
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on like, you know, don't zoom in on things in games.
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You're going to ruin it for yourself. Yeah.
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But, um, yeah, that's super interesting. That's an interesting point.
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Cause I, there was a, I saw, I think it
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was a tweet, maybe a tech talk about, um, I
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don't even remember the game, but it's one of those
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like space explore, you know, but, and it was like, it's,
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it claims to have, I think it was in the
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quintillions of planets. Cause it like just kind of generates
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randomly or whatever. Um, People are like, yeah, but most
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of them are empty and whatever. And it's like, yeah,
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but that's... Like, the whole gimmick is that, hey, you know,
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they want to make it as vast as the universe
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is supposed to be or the galaxy or whatever. Like,
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that's kind of the whole thing. Yeah, you're taking a trade-off,
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you know, in quality or, you know, but you have
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to do that with anything everywhere. I don't know. I
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also think that this hyper-realistic thing, I've seen that they
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really want to market, like, Look at the AI in
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our graphics cards and our chips now. It's as much
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a tech spec kind of thing as like, hey, make
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sure you buy this graphics card so you can run
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the hyper-realistic title. It just kind of is a self-feeding
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machine that I think, personally, I'm kind of fed up with.
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But I don't know about other people in and around
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the industry.
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I am also. No, I'm fed up with it. And
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I can tell you right now as well. Many of
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the devs and the creatives are also fed up with
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it because we didn't ask for it either. And what
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sucks is that it gets pushed onto us. So a
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lot of game companies from the very top are looking
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at AI and saying like, oh, we want you to
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use these AI tools. And the creatives in the game
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industry are like, but we don't want to use these tools.
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We don't want any part of it. We don't want
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to add these features into our game. We don't like
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the new features that are coming on the new GPUs either. Um,
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you know, and this is the part where I always
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try to talk to people. Cause a lot of times,
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you know, when gamers get mad, they say, they say
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devs and they talk about all devs and being on
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the dev side, I'm like, no, we agree with you.
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That's the part where you guys, you guys get upset
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at the devs, but the devs are on your side.
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You're upset at the leadership, you know, the people at
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the top, you know, shareholders a lot of times, and
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sometimes just, you know, bad leaders in general, but the devs,
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the ones that, you know, that you agree with. a
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lot of times what also really upsets me is that
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when there's layoffs at a company, which happens frequently in
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game development, you know, people, are always cheering that on
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like oh yeah the game was in such a bad
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state it's such a good good thing that they laid
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off people i'm like no the people that they laid
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off were the people that agreed with you because they
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were rocking the boat the people who you don't like
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the people who made the decisions they're still there they're
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the ones who did the firing like there's nothing you
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know uh That's why I get so upset, because I
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see a lot of this stuff online, and I try
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to always go to bat for the devs, because we're
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working people just like everyone else, and we're gamers just
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like everyone else. And odds are, if you hate something,
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we probably hate something too, but we don't have the
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power to change things. Especially with the AI and all
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this other stuff and the push for technology. Like I said,
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I grew up on the original Nintendo. Games were good,
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regardless of art. Ocarina of Time is getting remade, and
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it looks beautiful, but Ocarina of Time... even if you
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people were to go back and still play that game today,
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it would still be fun. It doesn't change. The art
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might change, but it was always a good game. So,
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you know, the push for stronger technology, better technology just
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doesn't make any sense, especially when, you know, Nintendo has
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always been a leader when it comes to gaming, where
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as Nintendo or as a Sony and Xbox were competing
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in the market of like who can make the better
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looking console, Nintendo was like, yeah, we're not even going
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to bother because that's just a losing game. You guys
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lose a bunch of money on each console sold. Like
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we're just going to make a lower end console that
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isn't as graphically intense, but is fun to play and
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has fun games. And because of that, Nintendo is just
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always doing well. You know, even their worst console doesn't
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do poorly and their games are still good. So, you know,
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that's something that I, when I got into making content,
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I wanted to get people to go back to of like, hey,
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stop focusing on Stop putting your own feelings in terms
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of how you feel about the characters or whatever on
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the screen and just play the game. Play the game
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and see if it's fun. Because games should be judged
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on their gameplay, not on their art, not whether or
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not you like or agree with how the main character looks.
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It's just, is the game fun? And to me, I've
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always told people, they're just like, oh, what do you
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think of this character that was announced? I'm like, I
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don't know because I haven't played it yet. I tell
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people all the time, I'm not going to put out
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content giving you thoughts on something I haven't played. If
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I play it, then I'll tell you. That's what I
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really want people to get back to and remember about
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games is that games have to be played to be judged.
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You can't just watch a trailer and know if it's
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going to be good or not.
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Going back to something you said earlier about giving the
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devs grace and realizing that they want the product to
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be just as good as it can be too because
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most of the time they're more personally invested in it
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than the company. The company just wants to make money.
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But these are the people who are like, no, I,
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I got the degree or I got the, you know,
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the prerequisites to do this job because I love this
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medium because I want to be expressive in it. And
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I think in rivals that that's really clear to me,
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this is something that I get bugged out is like, Oh,
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the devs are like guang guang. And like, it's funny
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as a joke, but it's like, no, they're, they're constrained
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by things like they, they have, especially when you have
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an IP as big as Marvel, which means Disney is
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whispering their ear in the back door. There's only so
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much that they can do. They're going to be bottlenecked
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by a lot of stuff. And I also think people don't,
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I don't claim to know a ton about game development,
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but I do know that I know enough that it's
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way more complicated than people think. And something like balance, especially,
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people complain about balance all the time. And it's like,
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to me when I read patch notes and it's like, okay,
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we increase something by, by five or a percentage or whatever.
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And that makes all the difference from taking a character
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from like F to S tier. Like that is evidence
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to me that the game is actually pretty well balanced.
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Like if, if a small change like that can, can
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boost the character so much and it changes so much,
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it's like, yeah, I don't know. There's more evidence to
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say that I think they're doing a better job than
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people give them credit for. Obviously there are things that
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are frustrating.
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Um, Yeah, there's definitely there's definitely some things that are
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that are frustrating for sure. But I agree with you
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that the devs deserve more credit in terms of what
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they've accomplished and what they're doing. Yeah. And, you know,
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to me, what I see all the time, too, is
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that people don't understand when they're asking for balance to like,
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how hard is it to just balance the game? And
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I'm like, well, that is your version of balance, because
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I promise you, even if you balance it to what
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you want, it's not going to be balanced to what
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somebody else wants. And being able to separate your own
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personal feelings away is important. And, like, last season, everyone
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complained about how bad Psylocke was, but I was still
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playing Psylocke just fine. And I had no problems. The
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issue I have and I always bring up is that
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when people complain about balance, they're like, oh, well, Psylocke
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isn't even that good this season. And I'm like, listen,
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if you are below Celestial 1... you don't need to
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worry about the balance. It is not as important to
305
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you as it is to people who have min-maxed things
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to their highest potential. But my issue was, is that, hey,
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when you guys ask for something, you want balance because
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you want your character to be strong. But in Rivals,
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where your character is strong, then they get permabanned. I,
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as a Psylocke player, didn't want her buffed. She got buffed.
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Now she's permabanned this season. I don't get to play her. So...
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To me, I recognize that I'm like, I'd rather have
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my character be A tier than S plus tier and
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have her be strong because I'll never get to play her. And,
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you know, and going back to, you know, game development
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on the game side of things, I want to add
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that game devs don't make as much money in the
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game industry that they would anywhere else. If you're in
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video game development, you're in video game development because you
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love games. You know, if you wanted to work in,
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00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:04.360
you know, movies or programmers, programmers could work anywhere. But
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people who work on games do it because they love it. So,
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you know, like you said, when people have a sense
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of pride in their work, that's what devs want. We
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just want to make a good product. We want to
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make a good game that everyone loves. That's our goal.
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So it sucks when people think that like, oh, all
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the devs care about is money. And I'm like, we
329
00:16:23.090 --> 00:16:25.889
don't like I don't get a bonus if something does well.
330
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I just don't. This is my job. This is my job.
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I go to my job every day. you know, maybe
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I get a raise or something. Maybe, maybe I don't,
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but you know, all of us devs are just passionate.
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We just want to make great games because we just
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love video games that much. And that's always what I
336
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want people to, to remember is that, you know, we're
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the devs are gamers and we're on the side of everyone,
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just like everyone else is. We want to make people happy.
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But truth is too, is that people need to recognize that,
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you know, what they want is not always what everybody wants. And,
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you know, when it comes to like the, I was
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watching your podcast with Mills, you know, when it comes
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to the discussion with like flat versus flats versus light. Yeah.
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Like each of them wanted to improve the game, but
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both of them had different ideas in terms of like
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what that meant. And that's what I want people to
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remember is like, I don't disagree with you that we
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want some of the same things, but the conversation of
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how we get there is different for all of us. Yeah.
350
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No. And I think something you said earlier that ties
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really well into that is that player sentiment, individual player sentiment,
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00:17:31.690 --> 00:17:36.470
there is a very distinct difference between, you know, your
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experience of what is broken. Like a lot of times
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people just associate, what do I not like playing against?
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That's broken. Or what do I die to most often?
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That's broken. And it's like, okay, you have a confirmation
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bias here. It kind of reminds me of the, I
358
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:54.920
think it was World War II when they came back with,
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you know, the planes were coming back and they were like, oh,
360
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we need to shield these areas. And then somebody pointed out,
361
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it was like, no way. those are the planes that
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are coming back. So we need to shield the places
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where we're not seeing bullet holes that, you know, because
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that means those planes are going down when they get
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shot there. And like, I think it's the same thing
366
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as like, whatever your weaknesses are.
367
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Yeah.
368
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It's going to feel broken. Like I, you know, I
369
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don't have great dive characters. So, you know, when there's,
370
00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:22.200
when dive is kind of the solution or the easiest
371
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solution to a problem, I'm aware that like, Oh, I
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00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.140
have to work harder because my hero pool doesn't accommodate
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that all that well. Like it's not, Oh, you know,
374
00:18:31.210 --> 00:18:35.000
poke is broken or, or whatever, like brawl is broken. No,
375
00:18:35.019 --> 00:18:39.480
it's just that I don't have the tools or the tools. Yeah. Like,
376
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:42.140
and that's the thing is that the game should encourage
377
00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:45.589
you in that way to build a well-rounded hero pool
378
00:18:45.630 --> 00:18:48.569
and skillset. And for that reason, like, it's not just,
379
00:18:48.869 --> 00:18:50.450
I think people are like, Oh, I just want to
380
00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:52.009
play my character and I want it to be able
381
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to do everything. It's like, that's not how, especially a
382
00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:56.920
hero shooter is. should work.
383
00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.880
Yeah. Yeah. You're a hundred percent. And I'm so glad
384
00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:02.119
you brought up the, the confirmation bias with the planes.
385
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.400
Cause I've used that so many times as well. And
386
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.140
it's this is exactly what this is here where, you know, I,
387
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.460
I realized where so many people are frustrated season by season.
388
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.569
They're like, Oh, this is the season's terrible. It's awful.
389
00:19:15.980 --> 00:19:19.650
But I am one of the rare, like flex players
390
00:19:20.130 --> 00:19:22.789
who has a positive win rate on each role. Like,
391
00:19:23.470 --> 00:19:25.849
across the board, every season, you can put me on
392
00:19:25.890 --> 00:19:28.589
any role and I'm going to perform just fine. Most
393
00:19:28.630 --> 00:19:32.359
people in hero shooters usually stick to one role. And
394
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:36.480
they try to get hyper good at that one role.
395
00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:40.660
But by doing that, you also limit in terms of
396
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.289
your ability of understanding what other roles go through. And
397
00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:48.089
so you have people you know uh who find a
398
00:19:48.109 --> 00:19:50.809
play style and they'll just do that same play style
399
00:19:50.890 --> 00:19:54.339
every game but depending on what you're going up against
400
00:19:54.380 --> 00:19:56.579
you can't do the same thing every time you know
401
00:19:56.630 --> 00:20:00.640
i've seen people play flank luna and they're flanking luna
402
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:04.039
on defensive convoy maps up against dive and i'm like
403
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:06.339
you're just gonna get blown up because there's no reason
404
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.079
for you to stand there like i understand yeah if
405
00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:12.759
we're on offense, but you're doing the same thing, regardless
406
00:20:13.579 --> 00:20:15.400
of the position that you're in and you're not thinking
407
00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:17.990
of the strategy of it. So you're just constantly putting
408
00:20:18.009 --> 00:20:21.690
your team at a disadvantage or, you know, people, a
409
00:20:21.690 --> 00:20:24.569
lot of times think that the solution is just, if I,
410
00:20:24.650 --> 00:20:29.109
if I counter swap, I'll automatically solve the problem, right? Oh,
411
00:20:29.230 --> 00:20:31.190
there's dive on the enemy team. I'll go into more,
412
00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:33.180
but I've seen people go into more and then flank
413
00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:35.369
the back line. It's like, you The dive is coming
414
00:20:35.410 --> 00:20:37.750
to us. Like you don't need to go to their backline.
415
00:20:37.789 --> 00:20:40.650
Like the point of you swapping was to deal with
416
00:20:40.690 --> 00:20:44.009
the people diving us, not, not go to them. And
417
00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:48.410
so I, you know, a big problem is that people
418
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.519
don't understand the strategy of the game and they don't,
419
00:20:52.900 --> 00:20:56.220
you know, when they get stuck in a situation, they're like, oh,
420
00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:57.900
I don't know what to do. There's nothing I can do.
421
00:20:57.940 --> 00:20:59.359
So the season must be back. Cause my hero is
422
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:01.380
not working right now, but it's like, well, you haven't
423
00:21:01.420 --> 00:21:03.660
adjusted your strategy and you don't have a hero pool
424
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.019
that big enough to solve the problems ahead of you.
425
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:10.119
Whereas like, you know, it's funny because people are so
426
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.509
used to seeing people one trick that depending on when
427
00:21:12.549 --> 00:21:15.130
you found my content will depend on what hero you
428
00:21:15.170 --> 00:21:18.950
think I play. Because originally I was a Psylocke player
429
00:21:19.329 --> 00:21:22.089
and then, so I was called a Psylocke OTP and
430
00:21:22.109 --> 00:21:23.970
then I was a Cap OTP and then I was
431
00:21:24.019 --> 00:21:27.000
a Rocket OTP and then I'm a Rogue OTP. And
432
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.740
it's like, okay, you guys keep using the OTP phrase
433
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.119
a little too much on me here. Like, you know,
434
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:38.049
it doesn't, I have a large hero pool toolkit, and
435
00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:40.150
that's also because I have a huge experience of Overwatch.
436
00:21:40.809 --> 00:21:44.299
I was a Tracer main in Overwatch, and then I,
437
00:21:44.670 --> 00:21:46.279
once Role Queue came out, and I got, of course,
438
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.619
I climbed Tracer up to high enough ELOs, I started
439
00:21:50.660 --> 00:21:52.400
to branch out and play the other roles. And so
440
00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:55.519
when I went to Rivals, the same thing. I'm like, oh, okay,
441
00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.400
I can naturally bounce between all three roles just fine here.
442
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.660
But yeah, it all comes down to If you don't
443
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:05.009
have the tools in your toolkit, you're going to feel
444
00:22:05.829 --> 00:22:12.630
like you can't play the game. But that is something where,
445
00:22:13.509 --> 00:22:16.630
especially with Rivals players, I don't know what it is,
446
00:22:16.690 --> 00:22:22.490
but Rivals players, for some reason, just don't understand Hero
447
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:25.079
Shooter super well. Some people really understand it, and then
448
00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:26.980
you have people in the game that just don't understand
449
00:22:27.019 --> 00:22:30.259
it at all that have climbed by just running it down. Yes.
450
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:32.220
And that's what I was going to say is, is
451
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.519
the rank system. I don't want to harp on the
452
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.200
rank system too long just because that could be our
453
00:22:37.220 --> 00:22:38.059
podcast in itself.
454
00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:38.440
Yeah.
455
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:43.299
But it it rewards that mentality that you were talking
456
00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:45.640
about of I'm going to run my one strategy. I'm
457
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:48.319
going to do my one thing because you can if
458
00:22:48.339 --> 00:22:51.680
you're close enough to a 50 percent win rate, you
459
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.880
can continue to climb. Like the game is not holding
460
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.660
those people captive and going, hey, no, you need to
461
00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:01.599
start doing something differently. Like, if you only play... And
462
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:05.759
I think this, again, to what you're saying, Rivals players
463
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.819
seem to think that, no, if I can play flank
464
00:23:08.859 --> 00:23:11.720
Luna well enough, I should be able to just win
465
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.319
and climb no matter what. And it's like, you don't
466
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:17.680
understand the fundamentals of what the hero shooter genre is.
467
00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:20.599
I was talking about this with Donnie when I did
468
00:23:20.619 --> 00:23:24.089
my episode with him, too. Like, I reached... My peak
469
00:23:24.140 --> 00:23:27.160
is Celestial 1, and that is a completely different game. Like,
470
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:29.509
people actually know what they're doing. There are coordinated plays.
471
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.019
Like that is where stuff starts to really matter. Anything
472
00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:36.769
below that, you'd be lucky to find another teammate who
473
00:23:36.869 --> 00:23:39.890
actually understands the fundamentals of hero shooters. I'm completely new
474
00:23:39.910 --> 00:23:42.450
to hero shooters. Rivals is my first one. I have
475
00:23:42.730 --> 00:23:46.690
gone back and watched, you know, like educational content, your content,
476
00:23:46.710 --> 00:23:50.019
Mills content, like to understand, okay, what am I missing here?
477
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.440
Like what, how do I solve X problem? How do
478
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.859
I counter X person? And growing my skillset and doing so,
479
00:23:56.500 --> 00:23:59.160
and even understanding the fundamentals that I do, It's like
480
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.130
people are just doing what they think is right, and
481
00:24:03.150 --> 00:24:06.609
they develop a bias because it works more than it should.
482
00:24:06.829 --> 00:24:08.849
That's kind of the problem with the rival's rank system.
483
00:24:09.789 --> 00:24:09.990
Yeah.
484
00:24:10.490 --> 00:24:12.349
But yeah, I think that's part of the biggest kind
485
00:24:12.369 --> 00:24:15.539
of problem is it solidifies these thought processes of, oh, no,
486
00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:17.880
this is working. I just need to keep playing. And
487
00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:20.799
then they do, and it kind of does. But it's like, no,
488
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:23.359
if we're actually talking about how the ranked system should work,
489
00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:27.180
you should be stuck somewhere. You should be stuck where
490
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.109
you are refusing to grow beyond. And that can be
491
00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:32.410
a different rank depending on different things, the hero you're playing,
492
00:24:32.710 --> 00:24:35.490
your mechanical skill, but you should get stuck somewhere. And
493
00:24:35.529 --> 00:24:37.769
people just don't for the most part, or they don't,
494
00:24:38.569 --> 00:24:40.950
it's not until like Celestial. And they're like, well, no,
495
00:24:40.970 --> 00:24:43.390
I'm good because I'm in the top. It's like, no,
496
00:24:43.430 --> 00:24:44.910
you don't understand. That's not.
497
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:50.660
The amount of people in Celestial that have, no understanding
498
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:54.480
of the game is incredible to me all the time
499
00:24:54.539 --> 00:24:59.680
because it, especially in Celestial where those were the huge
500
00:24:59.740 --> 00:25:03.029
egos are, you still have people that are ending the
501
00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:05.769
game with 18 deaths being like, yeah, the heals just
502
00:25:05.849 --> 00:25:07.769
are bad this game. It's like, bro, we all have six.
503
00:25:08.329 --> 00:25:10.210
You're the only one with 18. Like, this is a
504
00:25:10.289 --> 00:25:14.089
you problem and you put us at a disadvantage all game. Like, oh, well,
505
00:25:14.150 --> 00:25:17.960
it doesn't matter because I'm SVP. It's just like, but,
506
00:25:18.670 --> 00:25:20.450
it doesn't matter because you just walked in and into
507
00:25:20.490 --> 00:25:24.279
it every single time. And going back to what you're
508
00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:28.059
talking about, you know, rivals does incentivize the wrong things
509
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:32.339
with performance SR, with negative win rates, with the MVP
510
00:25:32.500 --> 00:25:36.799
SVP system, only taking into consideration damage, you know, it,
511
00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:40.289
everyone is judging each other based off of essentially what our, uh,
512
00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:44.730
mindless DPS tactics, which are, if you run it down
513
00:25:44.769 --> 00:25:48.430
main and just pump damage, uh, then you must be
514
00:25:48.470 --> 00:25:52.650
doing good. But for me, you know, the way that
515
00:25:52.730 --> 00:25:56.910
I play, I, I never get MVPs or SVPs, but
516
00:25:56.930 --> 00:25:59.349
I win. I just, but I also get docked on
517
00:25:59.470 --> 00:26:02.710
the performance system because I recognize that there are times
518
00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:06.299
where I have my ultimate and I'll stop attacking. And
519
00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:10.200
every second I know that I'm not attacking, I am not,
520
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.240
I'm getting dinged on the performance system And it's actively
521
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:16.640
harming me. However, I know in that instance, if I'm
522
00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:19.549
attacking and I'm not applying pressure and I'm just attacking mindlessly,
523
00:26:19.619 --> 00:26:22.150
I'm just charging enemy support alts up. So the better
524
00:26:22.190 --> 00:26:24.329
I get at the game, the less damage I do
525
00:26:24.369 --> 00:26:26.289
with the more efficient I play. But the more efficient
526
00:26:26.329 --> 00:26:28.609
I play, the more I'm punished actually by the system.
527
00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:32.470
But the more rewards that one DPS that hasn't taken
528
00:26:32.509 --> 00:26:35.750
an angle, that just walks down main, that just pumps damage.
529
00:26:36.109 --> 00:26:39.869
And I'll be the one that goes in, gets the
530
00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:43.240
first kill in the neutral and And then that'll give
531
00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:45.849
an opportunity for my DPS to pop off who's just
532
00:26:45.869 --> 00:26:48.630
been pumping damage main, but now he pumping damage main
533
00:26:49.089 --> 00:26:51.549
in a 6v5. We're just naturally going to win that
534
00:26:51.589 --> 00:26:54.829
fight as long as we play smart. But the system
535
00:26:54.890 --> 00:26:56.190
is going to look and be like, oh, well, the
536
00:26:56.230 --> 00:27:00.190
DPS did the most because he got five finals after that.
537
00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:02.119
But it's like, right, but he only got five finals
538
00:27:02.259 --> 00:27:04.980
because I took an angle, I made a play, and
539
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:06.880
I was the one able to do this. So I
540
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:10.980
have called for the performance of our system to change dramatically.
541
00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:14.869
for a long time because you shouldn't be able to
542
00:27:14.910 --> 00:27:17.170
climb by play time. You shouldn't be able to climb,
543
00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:21.109
you know, with negative win rates. You, you know, because people,
544
00:27:21.490 --> 00:27:23.829
the problem with the matchmaking to me is that it
545
00:27:23.890 --> 00:27:26.990
actually works and that if you are matching a Celestial
546
00:27:26.990 --> 00:27:30.430
3 against a Celestial 3, in theory, that should be
547
00:27:30.470 --> 00:27:35.049
a fair game. But if someone's Celestial 3 in, you know,
548
00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:37.630
20 games and there's another Celestial 3 player who's there
549
00:27:37.630 --> 00:27:40.700
200 games, those are not the same Celestial 3 players.
550
00:27:40.819 --> 00:27:42.579
If there's someone who's Celestial 3 at the start of
551
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:45.480
the season, there's someone who's Celestial 3, you know, a
552
00:27:45.539 --> 00:27:48.279
week before the season ends or a day before the
553
00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:51.940
season ends, those are completely different players. And since there's
554
00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:56.349
no consistency, since how you climb through the rank system
555
00:27:58.130 --> 00:28:02.630
isn't exactly, it doesn't exactly reward you actually playing smart,
556
00:28:03.950 --> 00:28:08.029
you know, until we change the entire rank system, these constant, like,
557
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:12.730
rank resets of pushing everyone back doesn't help anything because well,
558
00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:17.309
the ranks don't mean anything anyway. So, and since that
559
00:28:17.369 --> 00:28:20.349
is the case, you know, it's, it's easy to see
560
00:28:20.430 --> 00:28:23.109
people go through those matches where it's just like, Oh,
561
00:28:23.130 --> 00:28:24.579
I'm gonna have a lot of wins. Oh, I'm going
562
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:28.039
to have a lot of losses. And it's like, well, yeah,
563
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.759
because you're gambling to see whether or not you have
564
00:28:30.779 --> 00:28:33.660
players who understand how to play the game and players
565
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.740
who don't. Um, And that is one of the big
566
00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:40.539
frustrations I have personally with the matchmaking system because I
567
00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:43.599
am one of those people that, like I said, the
568
00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:45.259
better I get at the game and the more efficient
569
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:49.519
I try to play, the more I'm punished by the
570
00:28:49.539 --> 00:28:50.119
system itself.
571
00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:55.519
Yeah. So I do want to ask, because you've worked
572
00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:59.980
on games, what is it about rivals? Do you have
573
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.609
a specific, like, what is the hook? Is it just
574
00:29:04.630 --> 00:29:07.930
the Marvel IP or is there something really unique going
575
00:29:08.009 --> 00:29:08.309
on there?
576
00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:12.400
In terms of why I love it so much?
577
00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:15.700
Why do you think it has the audience that it does?
578
00:29:16.180 --> 00:29:24.009
Especially a lot of these people migrating from Overwatch.
579
00:29:25.630 --> 00:29:29.849
Overwatch has changed so much that it lost a lot
580
00:29:29.869 --> 00:29:33.990
of the magic that Overwatch 1 had. I know they've
581
00:29:34.009 --> 00:29:37.339
lost the two, but let's be real. I don't recognize
582
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:39.930
what Overwatch is today. I think that's a feeling for
583
00:29:39.950 --> 00:29:42.470
a lot of people as well even now as they've
584
00:29:42.490 --> 00:29:45.400
made changes and supposedly like 6v6 is you know quote
585
00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:48.640
unquote like sort of back it's still 6v6 or 5v5
586
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:51.259
the player base is split and as far as i
587
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:53.579
know you know they still have immortalities in the game
588
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.299
they still have hidden passives a lot of that stuff
589
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:02.680
changes the way the game feels And Rivals had some
590
00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:07.559
of that magic of Overwatch 1 where it felt like
591
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:10.119
I was being rewarded for making smart plays versus just
592
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.920
having better aim or better, you know, I just shoot
593
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:19.869
more or whatever. You know, for Overwatch, I played that
594
00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:21.589
from the friends and family beta all the way up
595
00:30:21.630 --> 00:30:25.089
until Rivals came out. And I was super upset with
596
00:30:25.130 --> 00:30:28.490
how Things were changing. I hated Kiriko's design. I think
597
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:33.160
she absolutely broke everything about hero shooters because the whole
598
00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:35.599
point of hero shooters is that you have resources. And
599
00:30:35.619 --> 00:30:38.480
if you mismanage those resources in your positioning, you should
600
00:30:38.500 --> 00:30:42.069
be punished for it and you should die. Kiriko was
601
00:30:42.109 --> 00:30:44.329
a character with an immortality that was super easy to
602
00:30:44.509 --> 00:30:47.569
use where if someone made a mistake on their positioning,
603
00:30:47.769 --> 00:30:50.190
it didn't matter because Suzu would save them. So if
604
00:30:50.210 --> 00:30:52.500
you try to punish the Kiriko, it didn't matter because
605
00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:54.900
she could TP out 30 meters through wall. So her
606
00:30:54.940 --> 00:30:56.740
positioning didn't matter either. And she's one of the best
607
00:30:56.779 --> 00:30:59.660
duelists in the game. I'm like, this is not fun
608
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:03.200
for me. And then season nine rolled around for them.
609
00:31:03.220 --> 00:31:05.420
And they're like, Oh, we're going to make all the
610
00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:10.180
projectile sizes bigger as well. I was like, why? Like,
611
00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:12.619
that was not the problem here. It was like, Oh,
612
00:31:12.630 --> 00:31:14.490
then we think this will be more rewarding for players.
613
00:31:15.289 --> 00:31:18.569
I'm like, and then it just, it felt worse. Like
614
00:31:18.589 --> 00:31:22.210
the game, the gameplay felt worse. Uh, it totally changed
615
00:31:22.509 --> 00:31:24.690
a lot of things where, you know, even blinking around
616
00:31:24.769 --> 00:31:26.990
as tracer, people who couldn't hit their shots before now
617
00:31:27.029 --> 00:31:31.710
are hitting every shot. And then, and you know, everything
618
00:31:31.730 --> 00:31:34.990
that was like soft counters turned into hard counters where
619
00:31:35.930 --> 00:31:39.789
if I'm playing tracer up against cat, uh, Cassidy, he
620
00:31:39.829 --> 00:31:41.890
wins that matchup. Most of the time he should in
621
00:31:41.950 --> 00:31:45.640
overwatch one, he has the advantage. I have the chance
622
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:51.210
to dodge his stun and possibly win, uh, But realistically,
623
00:31:51.269 --> 00:31:53.930
because of his burst and because of his CC, he should,
624
00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:57.700
you know, he should win that matchup. And then in
625
00:31:57.740 --> 00:31:59.859
Overwatch 2, they're like, oh, we're going to give him
626
00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:03.119
a homing grenade that you can't blink out of. You
627
00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:06.700
can only recall it. And we're also going to put
628
00:32:06.769 --> 00:32:08.869
damage reduction on his roll. So even if you hit
629
00:32:08.890 --> 00:32:11.230
him with your ultimate, his roll, which is up every
630
00:32:11.269 --> 00:32:13.750
six seconds, he can just roll through it and survive.
631
00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:16.509
And we're also going to make it so it's super
632
00:32:16.569 --> 00:32:18.380
easier to hit your shots. So now all of a sudden,
633
00:32:18.410 --> 00:32:22.000
Cassidy turned from this soft counter, which you could outplay
634
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.579
as Tracer, into a hard counter. And I'm like, well,
635
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.660
now the solution here is just a counter swap. And
636
00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:30.920
that was what Overwatch 2 became. It was just counter watch.
637
00:32:32.259 --> 00:32:33.759
The best thing for you to do is just swap
638
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:37.660
your hero. And I'm a firm believer that in hero shooters,
639
00:32:38.509 --> 00:32:41.730
counter swapping means giving yourself an advantage. It doesn't mean
640
00:32:42.369 --> 00:32:46.609
you're forcing your opponent to swap automatically. And while Rivals
641
00:32:46.650 --> 00:32:49.289
does have some characters like The Thing, which are just
642
00:32:50.049 --> 00:32:52.930
super annoying, the gameplay is not fun to play into them.
643
00:32:54.630 --> 00:32:58.720
I understand why he exists, but there's other counter dive
644
00:32:59.859 --> 00:33:03.400
heroes like Rogue. Rogue is anti-dive because of all of
645
00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:06.259
her soft CC, but she feels fair to play into.
646
00:33:07.299 --> 00:33:10.140
And for the most part, I think Rivals has a
647
00:33:10.180 --> 00:33:13.329
lot more situations where even if you're getting countered, if
648
00:33:13.349 --> 00:33:17.130
you play correctly, you can still win And I think that,
649
00:33:17.509 --> 00:33:20.849
that along with, you know, 6v6, because a single tank
650
00:33:21.170 --> 00:33:24.329
in a hero shooter, especially like Overwatch, when they went
651
00:33:24.369 --> 00:33:30.150
to 5v5, was just miserable. Like, I remember playing Tracer,
652
00:33:30.549 --> 00:33:34.819
wiping out both supports and both DPS, and because the
653
00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:37.680
Roadhog on the enemy team was still alive, we lost
654
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.839
that fight technically because I couldn't, I didn't, I couldn't,
655
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.200
I wouldn't be able to kill him no matter what
656
00:33:42.259 --> 00:33:45.759
I did. And... I had lost like all control and
657
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:48.119
agency in the game. Cause I'm like, well, I'm now
658
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:50.569
reliant on my team. And I think a lot of
659
00:33:50.589 --> 00:33:54.230
people sort of got frustrated with how the game had shifted.
660
00:33:54.289 --> 00:33:56.890
There's all these hidden passives. It doesn't really make any sense.
661
00:33:56.970 --> 00:34:01.190
And then it became more casual and then rivals dropped
662
00:34:01.230 --> 00:34:02.589
on the scene and it was just like, oh, there's
663
00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:05.069
something new. It's exciting. There's a lot of learning here,
664
00:34:05.710 --> 00:34:07.809
you know? And it really felt like I was using
665
00:34:07.849 --> 00:34:10.210
my brain again. I was like, oh, I can track
666
00:34:10.269 --> 00:34:12.340
ultimates and I can punish someone who's out of position again.
667
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.489
Whereas before. I can't tell you how many times I've
668
00:34:15.530 --> 00:34:17.309
played Overwatch where I'm like, okay, there's a person out
669
00:34:17.329 --> 00:34:19.849
of position, like, Suzu. I'm like, okay. I go to
670
00:34:19.869 --> 00:34:22.059
punish the next person, Lamp. And I'm like, I am
671
00:34:22.219 --> 00:34:24.699
so tired of the fact that all I do, my
672
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:27.519
job as Tracer, is literally just to force immortalities out
673
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:30.760
and hope my team does something. Like, I just, you know.
674
00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:35.269
So I think that Rivals is not just the IP. Like, yeah,
675
00:34:35.349 --> 00:34:39.070
the IP for Marvel is great, but if it was
676
00:34:39.090 --> 00:34:40.849
a bad game, it would have crashed and burned. I
677
00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:44.159
didn't think anything of it when it was coming out. And,
678
00:34:44.659 --> 00:34:48.599
you know, the combination of the good gameplay, the style
679
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:52.800
of the game. And I think the IP is like
680
00:34:52.820 --> 00:34:56.469
the least important part. I think the gameplay itself carries.
681
00:34:56.590 --> 00:34:59.489
And I think that people don't give the game enough credit.
682
00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:01.590
I think that most people who are upset at the
683
00:35:01.630 --> 00:35:04.150
game are usually just burnt out. Like, I think they
684
00:35:04.170 --> 00:35:08.159
just need a break, especially because the community is so toxic. Like,
685
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:09.599
I get it. I step away sometimes.
686
00:35:09.619 --> 00:35:10.840
We could talk an hour about that, too.
687
00:35:11.699 --> 00:35:12.679
I could easily do that. Yeah.
688
00:35:13.219 --> 00:35:17.590
Yeah, so I guess one of my questions is, is
689
00:35:17.630 --> 00:35:23.650
there a point where trying to optimize for enjoyment and
690
00:35:23.730 --> 00:35:28.809
fun conflicts with trying to balance the game? Is there
691
00:35:28.829 --> 00:35:31.789
a point where you have to go, okay, technically speaking,
692
00:35:32.250 --> 00:35:35.420
if we were objectively 100% balancing to the best of
693
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:40.599
our ability, we would actually make a worse player experience overall.
694
00:35:41.179 --> 00:35:43.039
Do those ever come in conflict, do you think?
695
00:35:43.929 --> 00:35:48.679
Yes. I think that people confuse all the time balance
696
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:51.519
and design. And I sort of had this when I
697
00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:55.000
had a discussion with Light, but the goal of a
698
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:59.860
designer is not to create something necessarily perfectly balanced, but
699
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:05.420
to create an experience in which is fun. And your goal,
700
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.239
when they see the balance notes or the patch notes,
701
00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:10.610
when people see like, oh, why are we why are
702
00:36:10.630 --> 00:36:12.630
we nerfing Iron Man? It's like, well, that nerf wasn't
703
00:36:12.670 --> 00:36:14.730
for you in high ELO. I get it that you
704
00:36:14.769 --> 00:36:18.349
don't see Iron Man as a problem. However, that character
705
00:36:18.389 --> 00:36:22.219
might be ruining the experience in low ELO. And the
706
00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:26.260
point is, is that you're trying to create an experience
707
00:36:26.300 --> 00:36:30.019
or design an experience that is fun, that is easy
708
00:36:30.059 --> 00:36:34.909
to learn and difficult to master. And I understand that
709
00:36:34.929 --> 00:36:37.369
when you look at like the objective win rates of like, oh,
710
00:36:37.409 --> 00:36:39.880
this character is strong right now. Like, okay, it's strong
711
00:36:39.929 --> 00:36:43.920
right now, but tweaking numbers, you can tweak numbers on
712
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:45.719
a kit and just say, okay, it does a little
713
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:49.440
bit less damage or something. But, you know, you could
714
00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:52.739
theoretically have a game where everyone has perfect 50% win
715
00:36:52.940 --> 00:36:55.739
rates and everything is technically fair, but that game could
716
00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:59.280
also not be fun as well. So, you know, there
717
00:36:59.300 --> 00:37:01.940
are seasons where my heroes aren't meta and that's fine.
718
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:03.860
As long as the kits are still fun to play,
719
00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:06.260
I'll still play the game. And there are seasons where
720
00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:09.480
my heroes are meta, and I climb higher and easier,
721
00:37:09.579 --> 00:37:14.630
but it doesn't matter. I'm playing for fun. So yeah,
722
00:37:14.650 --> 00:37:19.230
I think it's important that people understand that a designer
723
00:37:19.309 --> 00:37:23.210
isn't just trying to balance the game. They're trying to
724
00:37:23.289 --> 00:37:26.610
create an experience in which something like a new player,
725
00:37:26.650 --> 00:37:28.760
such as yourself, who had never touched hero shooters before,
726
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:32.570
can enter into the game not be so frustrated upon
727
00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:36.719
starting that they immediately quit and actually can play the game,
728
00:37:37.110 --> 00:37:41.420
understand what's happening, learn, improve, get better, and then make
729
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:44.460
it to high ELO. Because when people say, oh, you
730
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:46.500
should balance for low ELO, you should balance for high ELO,
731
00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:50.440
that doesn't make any sense at all because you're the
732
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:54.239
same group of people. All low ELO players are potentially
733
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.260
future high ELO players. So if you balance for low
734
00:37:57.340 --> 00:38:01.579
ELO and they're high ELO later, well, then what happens, right? So,
735
00:38:02.739 --> 00:38:05.610
you know, all the time when it comes to game
736
00:38:05.630 --> 00:38:08.070
design is you're trying to always think to yourself of like, okay,
737
00:38:08.090 --> 00:38:11.630
when you look at critiques from players, critiques from low
738
00:38:11.710 --> 00:38:13.590
elo is like, oh, Iron Man is frustrating. We don't,
739
00:38:13.750 --> 00:38:16.389
you know, it's, he just stomps every lobby. He's broken.
740
00:38:17.130 --> 00:38:19.570
It doesn't mean that Iron Man is broken. It means
741
00:38:20.269 --> 00:38:22.949
this character is making our experience frustrating and we don't
742
00:38:22.969 --> 00:38:24.849
know how to play against it. It's like, okay, well, how,
743
00:38:25.650 --> 00:38:27.280
you know, can we change something about the kit that
744
00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:29.880
makes it easier to understand what to do? Is it
745
00:38:29.900 --> 00:38:35.650
that You know, the map design doesn't help facilitate, uh,
746
00:38:35.809 --> 00:38:38.489
making it easy enough on them. Does it, is there
747
00:38:38.530 --> 00:38:42.550
something about the character's kit visually that makes it so
748
00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:45.010
it's not super readable that they're not understanding what to do?
749
00:38:45.030 --> 00:38:47.130
You know, is there a way to, to educate them
750
00:38:47.170 --> 00:38:49.719
or teach them? Or is there something we can change
751
00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:51.239
about a way about the kit in terms of its
752
00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:53.980
power level or shift its power, which makes it more
753
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.579
fair and easier to understand? Yeah. And that's why like
754
00:38:57.619 --> 00:39:00.139
designers have jobs because it's not as simple as like, oh,
755
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:02.820
you just go in there and tweak some numbers. Like, yeah,
756
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:05.409
I promise. I promise you gamers that for all the
757
00:39:05.449 --> 00:39:07.050
people who are super confident and think that you could
758
00:39:07.090 --> 00:39:09.050
just fix the game overnight, you couldn't.
759
00:39:09.610 --> 00:39:11.690
Well, that's promise you that. I think one of the
760
00:39:11.710 --> 00:39:14.909
biggest counters to that is like, OK, watch like Mike's above.
761
00:39:14.949 --> 00:39:18.519
You did an all flyer challenge. And like, yeah, he's
762
00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:22.119
using nerfed Iron Man in low elo. and he's doing
763
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:25.619
great because he understands more fundamentals of the game. And
764
00:39:25.659 --> 00:39:28.570
he's exploiting, like we were talking about earlier, the lack
765
00:39:28.610 --> 00:39:30.480
of tools, one of the big things in low elo
766
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:32.119
is they just don't look up like they have a
767
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:33.920
really hard time looking up they don't have as good
768
00:39:33.940 --> 00:39:36.539
of aim and mechanics so they can't actually hit someone
769
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:38.590
in the sky even if they see them like so
770
00:39:38.619 --> 00:39:41.309
that's it's those things that make iron man broken like
771
00:39:41.550 --> 00:39:44.610
it's just the in low elo But yeah, again, how
772
00:39:44.630 --> 00:39:47.250
do you balance for a lack of skill on the
773
00:39:47.289 --> 00:39:49.090
account of low elo? That's what low elo is supposed
774
00:39:49.110 --> 00:39:53.079
to be. You're developing those things. But I think, again,
775
00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:56.739
it's this mentality of I should be able to just play.
776
00:39:56.860 --> 00:40:00.159
I should never have to learn or adapt and still
777
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:02.590
be able to win. And I think that's where these
778
00:40:03.050 --> 00:40:05.190
misguided kind of, oh, well, we need to nerf this
779
00:40:05.230 --> 00:40:07.389
person and we need to nerf this person. And it's like, no.
780
00:40:08.150 --> 00:40:10.690
Like you were saying, you know, unless you're min-maxing at
781
00:40:10.730 --> 00:40:14.090
the top level, this is where, you know, like kind
782
00:40:14.110 --> 00:40:16.869
of to Light's points, that's where you start to see
783
00:40:16.909 --> 00:40:20.570
where the actual real numerical advantages lie or the kit
784
00:40:20.590 --> 00:40:23.719
advantages lie because everyone is playing as close to kind
785
00:40:23.739 --> 00:40:26.039
of perfection as you can get. That's when you start
786
00:40:26.059 --> 00:40:28.619
to see, oh, this character is still winning a lot,
787
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:32.099
even when everyone else is playing their character at the
788
00:40:32.139 --> 00:40:36.409
top level. I don't know. And I think that's, As
789
00:40:36.449 --> 00:40:38.050
much as people are like, oh, well, we want to
790
00:40:38.090 --> 00:40:40.349
call for this. How much of it is just the
791
00:40:40.489 --> 00:40:44.679
absence of a specific skill set or game knowledge, especially because,
792
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:47.559
as we've talked about, Rivals players just don't understand hero
793
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:49.039
shooters at a fundamental level.
794
00:40:50.139 --> 00:40:52.139
Yeah, I think it's that. I think it's the lack
795
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:57.809
of knowledge for 99.7% of players. And I always try
796
00:40:57.829 --> 00:41:03.329
to get people to understand, too, that high ELO player
797
00:41:03.369 --> 00:41:07.239
complaints are not your complaints. When people say, oh, support
798
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.480
is so broken. Support is so strong. I can understand
799
00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:13.619
why they're saying that because content creators or pro players
800
00:41:13.659 --> 00:41:17.059
might say that, but a lot of times for most,
801
00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:18.860
you know, for the people at the very top, I
802
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:21.460
get it. When you min max everything perfectly, triple support
803
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:24.880
is the easiest way to go. But most players in
804
00:41:24.940 --> 00:41:28.110
lower ELOs are not min maxing and cycling rotations of
805
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:31.349
abilities and ultimates perfectly in low ELO. You can very
806
00:41:31.570 --> 00:41:34.349
easily get people to double support alt in ranked in
807
00:41:34.369 --> 00:41:38.599
the lower ELOs, uh, and get them to waste their ultimates.
808
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:43.260
Or they're playing three main healers, and they don't really
809
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.679
have actually the damage output. And it's like, okay, you
810
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:47.400
hear triple support, and you think, if I just run
811
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:51.300
three people that are in the support category, I'm going
812
00:41:51.340 --> 00:41:53.380
to win. It's like, no, you need to understand the
813
00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:57.260
why behind why it's good. It's run with Adam. It's
814
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:00.010
run with Mantis. It's run with Ultron. Because they have
815
00:42:00.030 --> 00:42:03.030
these kits that are kind of designed towards that of, yeah,
816
00:42:03.110 --> 00:42:05.429
the damage is there. So you can kind of supplement
817
00:42:05.510 --> 00:42:07.789
what you're missing by not having a second DPS. But
818
00:42:08.269 --> 00:42:10.190
people in low elo don't understand that. They just go, oh,
819
00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:13.300
I play Luna, Invis, and Jeff, and we win. It's like, no.
820
00:42:13.659 --> 00:42:16.900
Yeah, no, that's not, yeah. And people don't even understand
821
00:42:16.940 --> 00:42:20.280
as well how, even depending on the supports that you pick,
822
00:42:20.739 --> 00:42:23.940
you know, I've seen people pick Jeff, and then what
823
00:42:24.019 --> 00:42:27.590
Jeff does, especially because he has a long healing beam
824
00:42:27.789 --> 00:42:30.789
that also does damage, he will siphon any sort of
825
00:42:30.849 --> 00:42:32.969
support ult charge from whatever support you have on your team.
826
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:38.059
So someone will pick Jeff, we'll be running, you know,
827
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:40.719
invis or something, and the enemy team will get their
828
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:42.269
support ult first and be like, oh, why don't we
829
00:42:42.289 --> 00:42:43.409
have an ult yet? It's like, well, we have a
830
00:42:43.429 --> 00:42:46.369
Jeff ult. Like, I understand you wanted the invis ult,
831
00:42:46.949 --> 00:42:49.030
but even the Jeff player didn't understand that they were
832
00:42:49.050 --> 00:42:52.530
siphoning heals away from the other support. Whereas, like, for me,
833
00:42:52.650 --> 00:42:55.409
once again, there are times where I'll hit tab and
834
00:42:55.429 --> 00:42:57.889
I'll look, me and my other support are both at
835
00:42:57.889 --> 00:43:00.719
80% on our ult charge, and I'll just stop healing.
836
00:43:00.739 --> 00:43:03.519
Because I need one of us to have our ult up.
837
00:43:03.949 --> 00:43:05.789
to be sure we have it in case, because the
838
00:43:05.829 --> 00:43:07.530
worst thing that could happen is we both are at
839
00:43:07.530 --> 00:43:10.860
95% when the enemy support alts and we don't. And
840
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:13.420
once again, in performance SR, that's a, oh, well, you're
841
00:43:13.460 --> 00:43:15.420
punished because you're not actively doing something. It's like, well,
842
00:43:15.579 --> 00:43:19.119
it's detrimental if we're both doing something. And I don't
843
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:22.199
have time to explain to my teammate what we need
844
00:43:22.219 --> 00:43:24.239
to do, so I just need to stop what I'm
845
00:43:24.260 --> 00:43:28.699
doing entirely. And, you know, it all comes down to
846
00:43:29.059 --> 00:43:32.159
that fundamental knowledge, which is why all of my guides
847
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:33.869
and I will, all the stuff that I put online,
848
00:43:33.889 --> 00:43:37.769
a lot of it is just understanding the game and
849
00:43:38.070 --> 00:43:41.769
understanding it on a macro level, which is the reason why.
850
00:43:41.510 --> 00:43:44.570
Is it's, it's almost always macro stuff. Is it like
851
00:43:45.010 --> 00:43:47.340
people want to focus on the micro because that's, what's
852
00:43:47.980 --> 00:43:50.739
kind of immediate. And what is like the fun for
853
00:43:50.780 --> 00:43:52.739
a lot of people is I want to shoot somebody
854
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:54.460
in the head and I want it to do something.
855
00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:58.670
And I want to, you know, see them die. Great. But, Yeah,
856
00:43:59.130 --> 00:44:02.610
it is that it's that step further, like have future sight. OK, well,
857
00:44:03.010 --> 00:44:05.920
you know, even in even in high GM, low celestial.
858
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:09.900
You know, it's like we just ulted with four ults. Yeah,
859
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:12.179
we won the fight, but now we're at an ult disadvantage.
860
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:14.739
We're screwed in the next fight. Yeah, we have nothing.
861
00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:15.179
For the next one.
862
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:16.619
They go, oh, we're all ulting.
863
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:19.280
OK, or oh, there's there's still two people left. I
864
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:22.000
want to pop my ult. And it's like, well, you don't. no,
865
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:23.139
don't do that. No.
866
00:44:23.420 --> 00:44:25.300
Yeah. Now we don't have it for the next fight.
867
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:27.800
And now we're left at an extreme disadvantage because the
868
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.340
game is about managing those resources. And like you said, it's,
869
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:33.699
it's future site. And you know, that's, that's one of
870
00:44:33.739 --> 00:44:35.539
the things that I was, that I've become more known
871
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:38.280
for is just my game sense. Cause you know, I
872
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:40.809
don't play the characters that are heavy on mechanics. I
873
00:44:40.869 --> 00:44:43.289
just like to play the characters that are fun. And, uh,
874
00:44:44.570 --> 00:44:47.280
what helps me carry and win games is understanding the,
875
00:44:48.739 --> 00:44:51.360
how much, like what my resources are, what the enemy
876
00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:55.039
resources are, you know, pulling attention and, you know, getting
877
00:44:55.059 --> 00:44:57.860
people to turn around, taking angles and being able to
878
00:44:57.909 --> 00:45:01.409
predict what's going to happen before it happens. And that
879
00:45:01.510 --> 00:45:03.849
is a huge superpower in these games with all of
880
00:45:03.889 --> 00:45:07.769
these hidden resources, because even if you see someone out
881
00:45:07.809 --> 00:45:10.030
in front of you, most people are trying to react.
882
00:45:10.789 --> 00:45:12.570
And what I always try to do is I always
883
00:45:12.610 --> 00:45:16.219
try to predict. So that way I am always quicker
884
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:16.670
than they are.
885
00:45:17.170 --> 00:45:21.909
You want them to be reacting to you. That's the whole. Yeah.
886
00:45:22.010 --> 00:45:23.690
Which is why, like one of my things that I
887
00:45:23.750 --> 00:45:26.610
love to do is spawn camp people. It is the
888
00:45:26.949 --> 00:45:31.860
most effective way to win a fight. When you know,
889
00:45:32.179 --> 00:45:35.340
both teams went in, your team lost the fight, but
890
00:45:35.380 --> 00:45:38.579
your team got a pick, but you're still alive. You're like, Oh,
891
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:41.239
we're both teams now. You know, let's say it's a
892
00:45:41.260 --> 00:45:44.480
domination map. Enemy team has control over the objective. Their
893
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.429
punishers coming back from spawn. You've got three people coming
894
00:45:47.469 --> 00:45:49.730
out of your spawn. You're next to the enemy spawn.
895
00:45:49.869 --> 00:45:52.570
You're like, oh, I will just wait because I know
896
00:45:52.829 --> 00:45:55.590
that it's going to take him 20 seconds to get
897
00:45:55.670 --> 00:45:58.230
that Punisher to get from this spot to this spot.
898
00:45:58.730 --> 00:46:00.449
And then I'm going to kill the Punisher when he
899
00:46:00.489 --> 00:46:03.039
doesn't see it coming. And then I'll rejoin my team
900
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:05.179
at the exact same time that the Punisher would have.
901
00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:08.880
And now it's a 6v5. That is like a huge
902
00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:14.079
big brain play that most people are like autopiloting. They're like, oh,
903
00:46:14.420 --> 00:46:17.219
Fight's over? Okay, I'll just go and regroup with my team.
904
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:20.280
It's like, no, no. Remember what happened? If you can
905
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:24.880
predict these things, you give yourself the advantage. And this
906
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:29.179
is my play style of I spawn camp, I solo
907
00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:32.769
ult people, I do really cheesy things to win. And
908
00:46:33.369 --> 00:46:35.710
it's extremely effective, which is why I don't get MVPs
909
00:46:35.730 --> 00:46:38.190
or SVPs. I'm like, I don't have to. If I
910
00:46:38.230 --> 00:46:41.429
start every fight with an opening pick, it doesn't matter
911
00:46:42.070 --> 00:46:44.130
how good or bad my team is. Like, that's a
912
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:47.829
huge advantage. The odds are they'll win. Uh, but yeah,
913
00:46:47.889 --> 00:46:51.309
a lot of players, you know, I, like I said, there,
914
00:46:51.389 --> 00:46:55.369
there's some rivals players that really understand the game super well.
915
00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:58.539
And then there's some that got so rewarded just by
916
00:46:58.579 --> 00:47:02.139
being constantly proactive all the time that they think that
917
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:03.579
that's what they need to do all the time. But
918
00:47:03.619 --> 00:47:05.380
sometimes the best thing for you to do is literally
919
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:10.139
nothing at all is just sit and wait. Yep. Wow.
920
00:47:10.590 --> 00:47:11.530
So sorry. Excuse me.
921
00:47:11.909 --> 00:47:12.449
You're good. You're good.
922
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:25.559
Let's see. If you could change one thing about rivals
923
00:47:25.699 --> 00:47:27.530
or rivals players, I mean, maybe we've touched on it
924
00:47:27.570 --> 00:47:28.309
a lot, but.
925
00:47:29.989 --> 00:47:31.510
What's the biggest thing you would want to change about
926
00:47:31.550 --> 00:47:40.610
the game? I, I would massively go on a band spree.
927
00:47:41.190 --> 00:47:43.010
I think like there's two things, there's maybe two things
928
00:47:43.030 --> 00:47:45.260
that would change, but the, the number one thing that
929
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:48.039
I've been calling for for a long time now. And
930
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:51.159
I'm glad that now it's sort of reached a boiling
931
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:54.010
point that NetEase, I'm sure, is paying attention. I know
932
00:47:54.030 --> 00:47:56.190
people are upset that there hasn't been a response, but
933
00:47:57.250 --> 00:47:59.489
I promise you that NetEase is watching this stuff and
934
00:47:59.510 --> 00:48:01.369
figuring out what to do. They have meetings on these
935
00:48:01.429 --> 00:48:06.909
things and they're going to find something. But to me,
936
00:48:07.150 --> 00:48:09.070
I've always been a firm believer that if you do
937
00:48:09.150 --> 00:48:15.860
no moderation at all, eventually the most... hateful and terrible
938
00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:19.519
players will eventually push out the good ones and that's
939
00:48:19.579 --> 00:48:23.500
sort of what's happening at the moment uh and it's
940
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:25.579
why i've always been like you you can't have a
941
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:28.539
game for everybody you have to decide who gets to
942
00:48:28.579 --> 00:48:29.739
stay and who doesn't.
943
00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:32.579
It's the uh it's the tolerance paradox you have to
944
00:48:32.619 --> 00:48:35.400
yeah you have to be intolerant to intolerance in order
945
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:38.849
to exactly a welcoming environment yeah Yeah, exactly.
946
00:48:38.869 --> 00:48:40.969
I'm glad you, I'm glad you, you know what that is.
947
00:48:41.030 --> 00:48:43.570
Cause it always frustrates me when people are like, Oh, what,
948
00:48:43.690 --> 00:48:45.329
you know, shouldn't these people have a space to play
949
00:48:45.349 --> 00:48:47.889
the game too? And it's like, no, you don't get
950
00:48:47.929 --> 00:48:50.519
to stay. That's as simple as that. If you, if
951
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:54.280
you can't play an online video game without getting mad
952
00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:57.719
and without throwing out slurs, like if you can't communicate
953
00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:59.800
like an adult, you know, cause they're always like, Oh,
954
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:01.619
you're the thing you always hear is like, Oh, you're,
955
00:49:01.699 --> 00:49:04.619
you're soft or, Oh, grow up. It's like, well, you're
956
00:49:04.659 --> 00:49:06.820
upset over a video game. So you are the softest
957
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:09.949
for sure. And growing up means being able to communicate
958
00:49:10.050 --> 00:49:13.380
without throwing out slurs. You know, if you can't do
959
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:16.789
those things, you don't deserve a spot in the game.
960
00:49:17.289 --> 00:49:20.059
And typically, to allow all those times that you see
961
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:21.820
those people in game, they're the worst players on the
962
00:49:21.860 --> 00:49:26.159
team consistently every time anyway. So, you know, I think
963
00:49:26.179 --> 00:49:28.400
that net ease really needs to do some house cleaning,
964
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:31.019
especially because like in high ELO, we know who the
965
00:49:31.059 --> 00:49:33.320
wind traders are. We know who the toxic players are.
966
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:35.869
We know who the the throwers are and you just
967
00:49:36.309 --> 00:49:37.969
hope that they're not on your team but the thing
968
00:49:38.010 --> 00:49:40.110
is like even if you're duoed with someone in in
969
00:49:40.150 --> 00:49:43.389
celestial and you have six avoid slots that's not enough
970
00:49:43.429 --> 00:49:45.780
for high elo even to avoid those players like because
971
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:48.559
there's just that many of them and this this includes
972
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:53.300
you know uh i i think that you know the
973
00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:57.500
marvel rivals team needs to be better on terms of uh,
974
00:49:57.659 --> 00:50:01.400
removing people who are even professional, professional players, e-sports players,
975
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:04.400
or even content creators. Like if you break these rules,
976
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.579
you're not involved in the space. You cannot be a
977
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:09.360
good representative of the space. If this is the way
978
00:50:09.380 --> 00:50:12.059
that you act, because if you want to work with
979
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:13.900
us and you want the benefits of working with us,
980
00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:17.469
then there's a certain professional decorum you need to have.
981
00:50:18.070 --> 00:50:21.150
And even a lot of those people, like, yeah, because
982
00:50:21.170 --> 00:50:24.210
you have a responsibility to like, you know, as let's
983
00:50:24.230 --> 00:50:27.079
say one of the e-sports players, I think I think
984
00:50:27.099 --> 00:50:28.360
this is one of the problems that I've seen in
985
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:33.530
esports is that there's not... They can sometimes, but you
986
00:50:33.570 --> 00:50:38.590
should have a code of conduct that you have to sign.
987
00:50:38.730 --> 00:50:42.329
And even just from a money-making perspective, it makes sense
988
00:50:42.730 --> 00:50:45.829
on the esports side of we should have something that
989
00:50:46.050 --> 00:50:49.949
brands want to partner with because we have good representatives,
990
00:50:50.030 --> 00:50:54.210
because the pros are looked up to. But yeah, I
991
00:50:54.250 --> 00:50:56.800
think this... this idea of like, oh, we can continue
992
00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:59.599
to be degenerates and nothing happens because we're good enough
993
00:50:59.619 --> 00:51:03.260
at the game does a huge disservice in the long run.
994
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:09.829
Yeah, 100% agree. And it's, you know, it's something that
995
00:51:10.150 --> 00:51:12.590
harms the player base. It harms the image of the game,
996
00:51:13.309 --> 00:51:16.050
harms the image of the company. And I know a
997
00:51:16.070 --> 00:51:18.230
lot of people compare it to, you know, they like
998
00:51:18.250 --> 00:51:20.230
to compare sports to esports, but I always say that
999
00:51:20.250 --> 00:51:25.179
those are, those comparisons don't work because with sports, sports are, are,
1000
00:51:26.269 --> 00:51:30.210
they've been around for a long enough time that everyone knows,
1001
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.739
you know, about these, about the most common sports. There's, uh,
1002
00:51:34.980 --> 00:51:37.860
you grow up with them in school, you have high
1003
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:41.840
school teams, college teams, pro teams, and throughout the entire way,
1004
00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:45.920
you have coaches that are teaching players to have good sportsmanship.
1005
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:49.880
Here's how you conduct yourself on the field. And you know,
1006
00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:52.559
when it comes to e-sports, most of the time it's
1007
00:51:52.619 --> 00:51:56.539
young kids who climb through ranked solo queue who get
1008
00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.340
really good at the game, but they didn't have a
1009
00:51:59.380 --> 00:52:02.079
coach there their entire lives to help teach them, you know,
1010
00:52:02.340 --> 00:52:06.929
good sportsmanship and how to conduct oneself. So you have the,
1011
00:52:07.550 --> 00:52:10.550
you know, these people with these kids with huge egos
1012
00:52:11.429 --> 00:52:15.110
that then don't understand, you know, the social skills they
1013
00:52:15.150 --> 00:52:19.219
need to be a professional. And that's, that's the problem
1014
00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:22.139
that I always have with e-sports and why I personally,
1015
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:23.480
people are like, oh, did you, you know, do you
1016
00:52:23.500 --> 00:52:26.550
watch the esports in terms of like, you know, whatever
1017
00:52:26.590 --> 00:52:32.349
game you're playing? Not really anymore. Because I don't really
1018
00:52:32.469 --> 00:52:36.190
like to support esports, both in terms of sometimes I
1019
00:52:36.389 --> 00:52:42.210
can't support the creators. And also, I don't like how esports,
1020
00:52:43.429 --> 00:52:45.889
it kind of takes away a lot of kids' best
1021
00:52:45.949 --> 00:52:48.690
years in order to try and pursue this. And you
1022
00:52:48.710 --> 00:52:50.849
don't necessarily make a whole lot of money out of it.
1023
00:52:51.050 --> 00:52:52.530
So it's like, it's a huge, it's one of those
1024
00:52:52.550 --> 00:52:54.739
things where I'm like, I'm more so just like to
1025
00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:56.860
play games because they're fun. And I like ranked because
1026
00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:00.500
I like to test myself against better players. But the
1027
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:02.179
way you play in ranked as well is also different
1028
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:03.860
than how you play in pro play. So it's cool
1029
00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:06.300
to see stuff in pro play that's perfectly coordinated, but
1030
00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:08.639
that's not the way that the game plays normally anyway.
1031
00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:13.820
So yeah, I, until something is done to, you know,
1032
00:53:14.510 --> 00:53:17.510
help encourage better behavior, I don't know what's going to
1033
00:53:17.530 --> 00:53:19.969
happen because it's, Me as a content creator, I'm glad
1034
00:53:19.989 --> 00:53:22.909
I got into this when I was much older because
1035
00:53:22.949 --> 00:53:26.510
now I recognize I have a certain responsibility as a
1036
00:53:26.550 --> 00:53:31.500
creator to encourage good behavior, you know, because people are
1037
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:32.960
going to look up to me and they're going to
1038
00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:36.539
mimic what I do. And I've seen it happen already. Like,
1039
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:39.699
you know, people started saying the tank tax after I
1040
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:41.199
made my tank tax video. And I was like, oh,
1041
00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:43.150
I got to be real careful what I say because
1042
00:53:43.570 --> 00:53:46.030
I don't know what's going to happen after I put
1043
00:53:46.050 --> 00:53:48.260
it out. you know, after I put out any video or,
1044
00:53:48.340 --> 00:53:50.920
or stream or say anything. So, you know, how are
1045
00:53:50.940 --> 00:53:53.590
you doing on time? Are you, are you good for it?
1046
00:53:53.590 --> 00:53:55.590
I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. I got a little more time.
1047
00:53:55.610 --> 00:53:57.230
So I can probably go to like two 20 ish.
1048
00:53:57.570 --> 00:54:00.150
Cool. This is a really interesting topic, um, that I,
1049
00:54:00.389 --> 00:54:02.230
that I have a decent amount to say about. So
1050
00:54:02.690 --> 00:54:05.829
my background is in Fortnite, Fortnite e-sports. Um, I was
1051
00:54:06.030 --> 00:54:09.170
on the content creation kind of side of things. Um,
1052
00:54:09.269 --> 00:54:14.369
so I worked alongside and on organizations making content organizing and,
1053
00:54:14.380 --> 00:54:17.489
you know, blogging Oftentimes it turned into babysitting a little
1054
00:54:17.510 --> 00:54:21.909
bit because Fortnite pro players are 14.
1055
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:22.809
15, 16.
1056
00:54:22.809 --> 00:54:23.070
Yeah.
1057
00:54:23.150 --> 00:54:23.329
Yeah.
1058
00:54:24.269 --> 00:54:28.050
But I also have a background in being a youth pastor.
1059
00:54:28.369 --> 00:54:34.389
And like, you'd be really surprised how similar those jobs felt.
1060
00:54:34.659 --> 00:54:36.139
I was going to say, I was like, that probably
1061
00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:38.139
is very, there's probably some overlap there.
1062
00:54:38.260 --> 00:54:41.480
Yes, a ton. And something that I really was disappointed
1063
00:54:41.579 --> 00:54:45.219
in that I spoke about a little bit, in that
1064
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.619
environment was, Hey, these kids need mentors and role models
1065
00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:52.659
because yes, they are hateful. Yes, they are. Like, and
1066
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:54.980
I think going back to kind of what you were
1067
00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:58.579
saying earlier, the hobby attracts those types of people who
1068
00:54:58.619 --> 00:55:00.380
are a little bit more antisocial, who are a little
1069
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:03.500
bit more like that. They, they cower here a little bit,
1070
00:55:04.099 --> 00:55:06.539
a subset of them because they don't really have the
1071
00:55:06.579 --> 00:55:09.099
social skills because they're not successful in other places. It's
1072
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:12.300
not everyone, but there is a big subset of people. Um,
1073
00:55:13.250 --> 00:55:15.090
But yeah, when I was, you know, I was like, Hey, we,
1074
00:55:15.409 --> 00:55:17.789
these kids, like a lot of what I ended up
1075
00:55:17.829 --> 00:55:21.760
doing was like, you know, advice or, you know, they're
1076
00:55:21.860 --> 00:55:24.980
like just saying, Hey, like, that's not a wise decision. Like,
1077
00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:26.780
that's not going to help you in the, like, I
1078
00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:28.800
wanted to be there for them and not how they
1079
00:55:28.820 --> 00:55:31.739
could make the organization money or how they could, you know,
1080
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:35.000
propel us to whatever. And I think that advocacy is,
1081
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:38.820
is way absent in e-sports. And I think that's very interesting. Um,
1082
00:55:40.820 --> 00:55:43.050
Because I'm like, yeah, I care about the kids, and
1083
00:55:43.090 --> 00:55:45.449
I think they're just not having the right people in
1084
00:55:45.469 --> 00:55:49.869
their ears telling them the right things. And that was,
1085
00:55:50.170 --> 00:55:53.389
I don't know, that I, you know, Fortnite has the
1086
00:55:53.409 --> 00:55:56.989
same issue, that people do not take their esports seriously
1087
00:55:57.130 --> 00:56:00.260
because of the stuff that they've seen Fortnite creators and
1088
00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:04.559
pros say and do and, you know, embody. Like, they
1089
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:09.070
embody this red-pilled, whatever, you know, stuff. And they say
1090
00:56:09.110 --> 00:56:12.019
stupid shit because they're 15 and 16 and they're stupid.
1091
00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:15.440
Like they have nobody correcting that because it makes the
1092
00:56:15.500 --> 00:56:18.380
organization's money. It makes the e-sport money or whatever it is.
1093
00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:22.760
And it's so exploitative. And I think that's, it's similar
1094
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:24.960
in rivals, although they're older and they should know a
1095
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:27.469
little bit better. I'm like, we're still talking about teenagers
1096
00:56:27.510 --> 00:56:30.730
and early twenties here. They're not super well adjusted members
1097
00:56:30.769 --> 00:56:34.030
of society. Someone should be coming alongside them to say, Hey,
1098
00:56:34.570 --> 00:56:37.480
let's not say that. Let's not do this. Like, They
1099
00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:41.050
just need a positive influence and people refuse to give
1100
00:56:41.070 --> 00:56:41.510
that to them.
1101
00:56:42.469 --> 00:56:45.150
Yes, and that is actually a big reason why I
1102
00:56:45.190 --> 00:56:48.789
got into the content creation space for gaming and stuff
1103
00:56:48.829 --> 00:56:51.369
is I saw, like you said, that sort of like
1104
00:56:51.429 --> 00:56:54.360
red pill type content where what happens is they end
1105
00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:58.679
up in an echo chamber where they see someone who's
1106
00:56:59.380 --> 00:57:01.199
angry and hateful, but as long as they're good at
1107
00:57:01.219 --> 00:57:03.300
the game, it doesn't matter because that person is then
1108
00:57:03.340 --> 00:57:06.280
getting rewarded. So they think to themselves, well, I'm going
1109
00:57:06.300 --> 00:57:10.059
to carry that same ego into my own games. And
1110
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:14.380
it's like, bro, you're only harming yourself. You know, all
1111
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.880
you're doing is pushing away other people in your life
1112
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:19.980
that you, you know, and possible friends you could be
1113
00:57:20.019 --> 00:57:25.570
having due to this, this crappy attitude that you have. And,
1114
00:57:26.369 --> 00:57:28.750
you know, I get people who watch my content and
1115
00:57:28.789 --> 00:57:31.010
what happens is, you know, I pull them in trying
1116
00:57:31.030 --> 00:57:33.030
to educate them on rivals. And then what happens is
1117
00:57:33.070 --> 00:57:35.269
they come and they watch my streams and And then
1118
00:57:35.289 --> 00:57:37.329
I just try to give them good life advice. Like
1119
00:57:37.369 --> 00:57:40.409
I'm trying to guide them and be like, Hey, I
1120
00:57:40.449 --> 00:57:42.300
get where you're coming from. Cause I know I was
1121
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:46.019
raised in it originally. Like these kids think, you know, they're, uh,
1122
00:57:46.780 --> 00:57:52.139
misogynistic or racist or whatever insults, uh, are funny. Or
1123
00:57:52.179 --> 00:57:53.980
I'm like, dude, you guys are saying the stuff that
1124
00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:57.539
I've heard 30 years ago. You're not unique. You're not clever.
1125
00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:01.090
You are merely just being used by other people to
1126
00:58:01.130 --> 00:58:04.280
try and, you know, push an agenda, but it's not
1127
00:58:04.300 --> 00:58:06.619
going to help you in the long run. And I
1128
00:58:06.659 --> 00:58:09.559
always try to teach people, you know, how to have
1129
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.949
fun playing the game and also how to be good players,
1130
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:16.130
good teammates, good, you know, good people in general and
1131
00:58:16.170 --> 00:58:18.710
how to have the good, that good balance. And also
1132
00:58:18.750 --> 00:58:22.969
just not really put so much, put so much into
1133
00:58:23.010 --> 00:58:26.489
these games. Like this, these games don't, don't matter. You know, it,
1134
00:58:26.889 --> 00:58:28.539
for most of us here, we're just trying to have
1135
00:58:28.579 --> 00:58:30.860
fun and have a good time. And I've told, I've
1136
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:33.329
told people multiple times, I'm like, the reason why I
1137
00:58:33.369 --> 00:58:36.730
hate playing in the ranks that I can actually compete
1138
00:58:36.829 --> 00:58:39.699
in like the high ELOs is those are the most
1139
00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:43.099
miserable players because they don't have, they don't have a good,
1140
00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:45.380
you know, playing the game and life balance.
1141
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:46.420
Yes.
1142
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:51.019
They have very little social skills. All they do is
1143
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:52.780
play the game all day, every day. And that's the
1144
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:54.340
reason why they're so good. But it's also the reason
1145
00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:56.019
why they're so miserable all the time. Yes.
1146
00:58:56.260 --> 00:59:01.039
Their self-esteem is entirely wrapped up in their stupidity. perceived
1147
00:59:01.139 --> 00:59:04.760
skill and and again yes i real emphasis on perceived.
1148
00:59:04.340 --> 00:59:06.969
There perceived yeah that's a good way to put it
1149
00:59:07.130 --> 00:59:08.309
is it's perceived.
1150
00:59:08.230 --> 00:59:12.320
Yes and especially in a in a ranked ladder system
1151
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.820
um you know it is it has to be relativistic
1152
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:17.480
which is why they have to put other people down
1153
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:21.329
like oh well i'm not rank one so you know
1154
00:59:21.389 --> 00:59:23.230
i have to put down anyone who's lower than me
1155
00:59:23.670 --> 00:59:25.590
oh lower than me i'm eternity well i have to
1156
00:59:25.630 --> 00:59:27.730
put down celestial and below oh you're in pislo like
1157
00:59:27.989 --> 00:59:31.090
and you just see this kind of thing this cascading
1158
00:59:31.150 --> 00:59:34.889
effect of that um yeah and i think another thing
1159
00:59:34.929 --> 00:59:37.949
to your point that you were saying earlier um yeah
1160
00:59:38.010 --> 00:59:41.170
kids and even teenagers they look at the things that
1161
00:59:41.190 --> 00:59:44.389
they want like to say to be a professional esports
1162
00:59:44.420 --> 00:59:47.280
player they look at those people and they don't know
1163
00:59:47.340 --> 00:59:50.539
how to separate what they should actually emulate to get
1164
00:59:50.579 --> 00:59:52.559
there and what they shouldn't they just take the whole
1165
00:59:52.619 --> 00:59:55.179
package and that's part of the thing it's like that's
1166
00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:59.320
your responsibility because It's not your responsibility to parcel that
1167
00:59:59.380 --> 01:00:00.900
out for them. You just have to be a good
1168
01:00:00.940 --> 01:00:04.260
representation so that they take it, like, you know, or
1169
01:00:04.380 --> 01:00:06.079
that they can't take the wrong thing.
1170
01:00:06.940 --> 01:00:12.429
People, yeah, people seem to assume, too, as they look
1171
01:00:12.489 --> 01:00:15.070
at it and are like, oh, this person has an
1172
01:00:15.190 --> 01:00:18.650
ego and they're really good, so... I should, I, there's
1173
01:00:18.670 --> 01:00:20.489
no way to be good without having an ego. And
1174
01:00:20.530 --> 01:00:22.570
it's like, well, that's just not true. Like you can
1175
01:00:22.610 --> 01:00:25.599
be confident and not have an ego at the same time.
1176
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:26.440
You can be good.
1177
01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:29.940
They say, Oh, he's ripping slurs. He's making fun of
1178
01:00:29.980 --> 01:00:32.980
other people. He has, yeah. I have to do that
1179
01:00:33.079 --> 01:00:36.110
in order to get what I, what I envy that
1180
01:00:36.139 --> 01:00:39.889
he has. And it's like, no, he put in hours,
1181
01:00:40.110 --> 01:00:43.409
he practices like, you know, he, I think a lot
1182
01:00:43.429 --> 01:00:47.329
of times it's also, um, you know, Do you actually
1183
01:00:47.389 --> 01:00:50.610
learn like every death? Do you go, Oh, why did I,
1184
01:00:50.739 --> 01:00:53.139
why did I die? What went wrong there? Like they,
1185
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:56.880
a lot of these people, unfortunately are really good at
1186
01:00:56.920 --> 01:00:59.320
that kind of intrinsically. And they don't realize it a
1187
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:01.360
lot of the time. Like, that's the thing that like,
1188
01:01:01.579 --> 01:01:05.349
they're really good at processing. Okay. Now I don't do that.
1189
01:01:05.389 --> 01:01:07.909
And they adapt. They just kind of naturally have this,
1190
01:01:08.010 --> 01:01:12.849
like this feedback loop of that. But yeah, people look
1191
01:01:12.869 --> 01:01:15.320
at it and they go, Oh, well it's because he's saying,
1192
01:01:15.929 --> 01:01:18.389
And you see this all the way down to the
1193
01:01:19.070 --> 01:01:21.179
psychology of it is so interesting, even down to the
1194
01:01:21.260 --> 01:01:25.599
language that's used. Like you hear, you know, every game
1195
01:01:25.619 --> 01:01:28.719
has its own slang or whatever because of the top
1196
01:01:28.820 --> 01:01:30.119
and it comes all the way down. So it's like,
1197
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:32.800
don't tell me that this effect is not real because
1198
01:01:33.159 --> 01:01:36.480
I hear these like LARP. I was like that. That
1199
01:01:36.500 --> 01:01:38.429
was a new thing to me. And now I hear
1200
01:01:38.469 --> 01:01:40.710
LARP in every single one of my games. And then
1201
01:01:40.750 --> 01:01:42.889
I found out, oh, it's JITWORD and it's all these people.
1202
01:01:42.929 --> 01:01:47.320
And it's like, OK, yeah, yeah, that's the whole thing. Um, yeah,
1203
01:01:47.570 --> 01:01:50.300
I think that's a broader esports thing, but rivals specifically,
1204
01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:53.519
as we've seen has a real, real issue with that.
1205
01:01:53.900 --> 01:01:56.960
Every creator tournament, there's some kind of terrible drama, every,
1206
01:01:57.039 --> 01:02:00.099
you know, like the, and at the top of the game,
1207
01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:02.019
it's all just like, I mean, I don't know if
1208
01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:04.420
you saw that Samju video where it was just like,
1209
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:07.019
the guy was just like ripping the N word at him.
1210
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:09.420
And then he like, you know, like it just, that,
1211
01:02:09.739 --> 01:02:13.340
that thumbnail is like, that shouldn't exist. Um, and that's
1212
01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:14.460
what the game has become.
1213
01:02:15.590 --> 01:02:20.489
Yes. And it's, it's really, it's really disappointing to see
1214
01:02:21.090 --> 01:02:24.969
how it has been influenced. And this is a reason why, like,
1215
01:02:25.030 --> 01:02:29.219
once again, if you don't squash behavior early, it becomes
1216
01:02:29.260 --> 01:02:31.360
a place where it becomes normalized. They're like, Oh, this
1217
01:02:31.380 --> 01:02:33.019
is just how it is in rivals. This is how
1218
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:34.539
it's supposed to, this is how it, you, you have
1219
01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:36.420
to either have to get used to it or you
1220
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:38.559
should leave. And it's like, no, the people saying these
1221
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:41.320
things should leave the people who are the negative influence
1222
01:02:41.380 --> 01:02:44.670
should be out. Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't want to
1223
01:02:44.730 --> 01:02:47.289
give the game up to the hateful people. I want
1224
01:02:47.309 --> 01:02:49.110
to push the hateful people out and.
1225
01:02:49.269 --> 01:02:51.650
Or make them change their behavior. I mean, yeah, I
1226
01:02:51.670 --> 01:02:53.949
don't know. At least for me, that's like, if you
1227
01:02:53.989 --> 01:02:57.519
just stop saying that stuff and stop being weird, like just.
1228
01:02:57.380 --> 01:03:00.320
Stop being weird with people. I'm cool with.
1229
01:03:00.260 --> 01:03:02.639
You being here like that. Again, that's, this is the
1230
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:06.039
intolerance paradox of like, no, I'm, I'm fine with you.
1231
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:09.119
It's your intolerance. It's your hatred. It's the fact that
1232
01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:11.579
you're not fine with other people, right? that you need
1233
01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:14.179
to change. And if you do that, you're very welcome.
1234
01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:16.579
But it's like, it's the one condition of entry, but
1235
01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:18.539
you just refuse.
1236
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:21.929
That, that we as a society usually just agree on
1237
01:03:21.989 --> 01:03:24.849
is just like, Hey, you're allowed to be here as
1238
01:03:24.909 --> 01:03:27.889
long as you're not being a nuisance to everyone else.
1239
01:03:28.590 --> 01:03:31.789
And I've said it from like the very beginning when
1240
01:03:31.809 --> 01:03:34.050
I've been making content in this, in this game and streaming,
1241
01:03:34.070 --> 01:03:36.769
I'm like, please just stop being weird. Like every time
1242
01:03:36.789 --> 01:03:40.010
I get into a lobby, you know, just the weirdest
1243
01:03:40.050 --> 01:03:42.030
behavior comes up and I don't know if it's because
1244
01:03:42.070 --> 01:03:44.389
I'm older and it's a generational thing, but I get
1245
01:03:44.409 --> 01:03:49.769
into lobbies and I, you know, kids either saying, you know,
1246
01:03:50.010 --> 01:03:54.489
slurs or, uh, doing weird things into the mic or,
1247
01:03:54.969 --> 01:03:57.389
you know, what they call rage baiting nowadays, which is
1248
01:03:57.409 --> 01:03:59.969
just being in being an asshole. Like, sorry, but it's
1249
01:03:59.989 --> 01:04:03.289
just being a dick. Yeah. Like you, you're not, it's
1250
01:04:03.309 --> 01:04:06.090
not funny. And I didn't sign up for any of this.
1251
01:04:06.110 --> 01:04:08.530
Like I'm just trying to play the game. And the
1252
01:04:08.570 --> 01:04:10.969
game is fun. Like when you have a team that's
1253
01:04:11.010 --> 01:04:13.489
working together, that's coordinated, even when you make mistakes and
1254
01:04:13.510 --> 01:04:15.349
you're just like, oh, it's OK, like shit happens. Like, well,
1255
01:04:15.510 --> 01:04:16.929
let's figure it out. Like, what do we do now?
1256
01:04:17.619 --> 01:04:21.380
The game is great, but there's so much weird behavior
1257
01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:24.320
in Rivals that it distracts from the quality product that
1258
01:04:24.340 --> 01:04:28.840
it actually is. And, you know, until that until all
1259
01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:30.550
that gets cut out and it's a combination, a lot
1260
01:04:30.590 --> 01:04:32.780
of things. you have to ban players and remove them
1261
01:04:32.820 --> 01:04:35.880
entirely from the game that are unable to reform. Cause
1262
01:04:35.900 --> 01:04:37.860
I do believe that like, yes, you do, you should
1263
01:04:37.900 --> 01:04:40.340
try to reform players. I don't believe that we should
1264
01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:43.679
just automatically just cut everyone at the first sign, try
1265
01:04:43.699 --> 01:04:46.119
to reform players or otherwise ban people who can't be reformed.
1266
01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:49.019
You need to go into the partner program and in
1267
01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:51.719
the creator space, and you need to start removing players
1268
01:04:51.780 --> 01:04:57.289
that are encouraging bad behavior, uh, and not being good representatives.
1269
01:04:57.469 --> 01:04:59.760
And in the, Esports scene, like you said, put a
1270
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:02.380
code of conduct in there. You're like, Hey, if you're
1271
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:04.519
going to stream, this is the type of behavior we
1272
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:06.579
expect to see you do live. And if you're going
1273
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:08.519
to be a pro player, this is what we expect
1274
01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:11.110
from you. And if you at all break this code
1275
01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:13.610
of conduct, we can remove you from your team. Like
1276
01:05:13.869 --> 01:05:15.829
you just, your team will have to replace you.
1277
01:05:16.510 --> 01:05:20.349
And yeah, like earlier you talking about traditional sports versus esports.
1278
01:05:20.610 --> 01:05:24.070
It's like, yes, an NFL player works for their team.
1279
01:05:24.190 --> 01:05:24.349
Yes.
1280
01:05:24.369 --> 01:05:26.969
They're contracted, but they're, they also work for the NFL.
1281
01:05:27.349 --> 01:05:31.269
And there are expectations. So you have to follow both
1282
01:05:31.309 --> 01:05:37.730
of those levels of expectations. It's kind of like this.
1283
01:05:38.110 --> 01:05:40.730
This is the analogy that I've used a couple of times.
1284
01:05:41.750 --> 01:05:46.440
It's like going to a restaurant and screaming and like whatever,
1285
01:05:46.780 --> 01:05:49.260
like taking your shirt off, getting naked, whatever you want
1286
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:53.099
to say. And then the restaurant's like, everyone starts complaining.
1287
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:54.929
And the restaurant's like, oh, well, if you don't like it,
1288
01:05:55.340 --> 01:05:58.179
you don't have to eat here. It's like, why is that?
1289
01:05:58.219 --> 01:06:01.500
Why is, why are we, why are we bending? Exactly.
1290
01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:03.800
Why are we bending to the crazy person instead of
1291
01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:07.780
just removing the crazy person? And, you know, to anyone
1292
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:10.079
who defends that kind of stuff, it's like, okay, you
1293
01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:13.199
are defending the crazy person here. Why? Like, why would
1294
01:06:13.219 --> 01:06:17.949
you want to, to, you know, uh, why is this
1295
01:06:17.989 --> 01:06:19.969
the hill that you want to die on here? Because
1296
01:06:19.989 --> 01:06:23.590
if someone says, Hey, we're going to suddenly start, uh,
1297
01:06:25.030 --> 01:06:28.230
mass banning and restricting with either with chat bans or
1298
01:06:28.289 --> 01:06:31.369
comp bans for anyone who's super racist in our games,
1299
01:06:31.590 --> 01:06:33.719
I'm not going to be like, oh yeah, I should
1300
01:06:33.739 --> 01:06:36.059
start defending this or start, no, like Netties is going
1301
01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:37.880
too far. I'm like, no, this doesn't affect me. This
1302
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:39.940
is very easy not to do. This is a very
1303
01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:44.119
low bar that we're trying to hit here. And that,
1304
01:06:44.699 --> 01:06:46.820
that is where I just don't understand why, you know,
1305
01:06:47.880 --> 01:06:51.030
players or other players or other, other players don't see
1306
01:06:51.050 --> 01:06:54.289
it the same way where it's just like this, if
1307
01:06:54.429 --> 01:06:56.429
we don't do something, this is just how it's going
1308
01:06:56.469 --> 01:06:59.860
to be. And these people will take, we'll just take
1309
01:06:59.940 --> 01:07:04.800
over the game. And, uh, and I, I totally get it.
1310
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:06.440
Cause like, yeah, the game is draining for me too.
1311
01:07:06.619 --> 01:07:08.659
I play this game all the time. I make content
1312
01:07:08.699 --> 01:07:11.139
off of it. And at this point, if I play
1313
01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:13.320
with my friends, I'll hop on, I'll play games. But
1314
01:07:13.340 --> 01:07:14.940
if I had to play solo queue anymore, I just
1315
01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:18.500
don't bother. Cause I play with friends to try and
1316
01:07:18.539 --> 01:07:21.880
limit the amount of weirdos I get on my team.
1317
01:07:22.900 --> 01:07:25.760
and try to make it at least a more enjoyable experience.
1318
01:07:25.860 --> 01:07:27.699
Because I used to play the game solo queue, but
1319
01:07:28.539 --> 01:07:33.530
not in a long time. So I'm hoping that with
1320
01:07:33.989 --> 01:07:35.590
all of this stuff that's going on, the talks that
1321
01:07:35.610 --> 01:07:37.630
have been going on, hopefully NetEase makes some huge changes
1322
01:07:37.650 --> 01:07:42.429
like we talked about. But it is, like you said,
1323
01:07:43.090 --> 01:07:45.199
I'm glad that you have an understanding of both being
1324
01:07:45.219 --> 01:07:48.900
a youth pastor, but also working in the Fortnite esports.
1325
01:07:49.380 --> 01:07:52.230
And you can see... a lot of these young people
1326
01:07:52.690 --> 01:07:58.039
just need role models and guidance. And NetEase does have
1327
01:07:58.059 --> 01:08:01.599
the power to control what those role models and mentors
1328
01:08:01.739 --> 01:08:03.420
are and the ones that get seen and why I
1329
01:08:03.420 --> 01:08:08.119
think it's important to prop up the best of who
1330
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:12.349
can represent you as a company. That's what I hope
1331
01:08:12.369 --> 01:08:13.449
that they do going forward here.
1332
01:08:14.309 --> 01:08:16.390
One thing that I want to say in response to that,
1333
01:08:16.829 --> 01:08:20.800
I think people also have this thing where they're like, okay,
1334
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.300
you know, we've complained about this. Now it should change immediately.
1335
01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:28.000
And it's like, whoa, hey, like they have a, they
1336
01:08:28.020 --> 01:08:31.500
have a scheduled out for God knows how long, you know,
1337
01:08:31.539 --> 01:08:33.840
like all these release and in the seasons and stuff,
1338
01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:36.020
like we're at least a few months out, if not more,
1339
01:08:36.300 --> 01:08:39.640
you know, like, and the, the banning thing that can
1340
01:08:39.659 --> 01:08:41.739
be a more immediate kind of a thing, but it's
1341
01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:44.039
like the balance or, you know, all of these things,
1342
01:08:44.079 --> 01:08:47.640
it's like, that takes time. Like 9.5, yes, was bad,
1343
01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:50.239
but it's also like, You have to wait. Like, okay,
1344
01:08:50.270 --> 01:08:52.010
they're taking in all of this data. They're taking in
1345
01:08:52.050 --> 01:08:53.789
all of this stuff. Like, you do need to give
1346
01:08:53.829 --> 01:08:55.529
a little bit of grace to go, okay, they need
1347
01:08:55.550 --> 01:09:00.000
time to evaluate what actually should be done. I heard
1348
01:09:00.020 --> 01:09:02.720
something once that I would wonder if you agree with.
1349
01:09:02.779 --> 01:09:05.979
It's like players are really good at pointing out what
1350
01:09:06.020 --> 01:09:09.140
the problems are. They have no clue what an actual
1351
01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:10.300
viable solution is.
1352
01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:14.470
They are terrible. A lot of the solutions I see
1353
01:09:14.550 --> 01:09:18.800
from gamers are, are always limited to their own understanding
1354
01:09:18.819 --> 01:09:21.119
in terms of what they want and not even necessarily
1355
01:09:21.159 --> 01:09:23.359
what is best for the health of the game. And
1356
01:09:24.539 --> 01:09:28.590
it's that, and even not understanding that there are technical
1357
01:09:28.630 --> 01:09:31.289
limitations as well as limitations just being at a job.
1358
01:09:31.350 --> 01:09:33.890
You understand working at a job, you don't get to
1359
01:09:33.930 --> 01:09:35.710
just make a decision and then just make it happen.
1360
01:09:35.930 --> 01:09:39.880
There is, especially on the game development side, okay, there's
1361
01:09:39.909 --> 01:09:41.779
a problem. Then we need to have a meeting to
1362
01:09:41.819 --> 01:09:43.619
talk about possible solutions on the problem. We need to
1363
01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:45.579
get everybody involved. Then we need to come up with
1364
01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:48.119
a game plan to try and tackle the problem. And
1365
01:09:48.140 --> 01:09:50.159
then even if you create a system, which is going
1366
01:09:50.180 --> 01:09:52.619
to take time, then you have to put that system
1367
01:09:52.659 --> 01:09:54.729
into a build. You have to test that system over
1368
01:09:54.770 --> 01:09:57.750
time to see if the system works. And then only
1369
01:09:57.810 --> 01:09:59.489
then after it goes through all of that, and there,
1370
01:09:59.510 --> 01:10:00.989
you don't have to go back at any point in
1371
01:10:01.029 --> 01:10:02.750
time to any one of the previous steps, which you
1372
01:10:02.850 --> 01:10:05.310
always do, then you can push it out to the
1373
01:10:05.350 --> 01:10:08.720
live build. And so. people get very used to, I
1374
01:10:08.739 --> 01:10:13.539
think there's an entitlement behavior of, especially because gamers are young, like,
1375
01:10:13.600 --> 01:10:16.020
why aren't they just doing this right now? And I'm like,
1376
01:10:16.039 --> 01:10:18.880
I don't think you understand how quick NetEase is actually working. Yes.
1377
01:10:19.340 --> 01:10:19.560
Yeah.
1378
01:10:19.859 --> 01:10:23.100
They work incredibly fast in comparison to other dev studios.
1379
01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:26.819
So when people get impatient, like, I think like when
1380
01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:29.800
people were getting, dropping in config files to dodge games,
1381
01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:32.960
people were like, why isn't this fixed immediately? And I'm like, guys,
1382
01:10:33.020 --> 01:10:35.300
it's been two days since they found this out. Like,
1383
01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:37.699
there's not even enough time to get a build out
1384
01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:40.420
that quick. So, you know, and it was like the
1385
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:42.729
weekend or whatever. So it's like, you, you need to
1386
01:10:42.779 --> 01:10:45.100
give them some grace and give them time to fix it.
1387
01:10:45.529 --> 01:10:47.149
It's okay to just not play the game for a
1388
01:10:47.170 --> 01:10:50.350
couple of days. If it bothers you, like it's totally
1389
01:10:50.390 --> 01:10:52.989
fine to skip on it, but there is a certain entitlement.
1390
01:10:53.029 --> 01:10:55.899
I think that that comes from when you're younger and
1391
01:10:55.939 --> 01:10:57.680
you don't know what it's like to work in a
1392
01:10:57.739 --> 01:11:02.920
giant company that you think to yourself, everything needs to
1393
01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:06.359
be done on my time. And yeah, Uh, I think
1394
01:11:06.390 --> 01:11:08.069
that's an attitude that really needs to change, which is
1395
01:11:08.130 --> 01:11:09.989
why I try to come in and give a more
1396
01:11:10.850 --> 01:11:13.250
nuanced take. You know, I tried to come in and
1397
01:11:13.289 --> 01:11:14.930
give the, you know, a lot of times people see
1398
01:11:14.970 --> 01:11:17.130
me as more of like the adult in the room of,
1399
01:11:17.909 --> 01:11:20.390
Hey guys, like I get it. You know, there's certain
1400
01:11:20.430 --> 01:11:23.189
things that subjectively that they do that I just don't like.
1401
01:11:23.229 --> 01:11:25.609
Those are things totally justifiable to say like, you know,
1402
01:11:25.630 --> 01:11:28.529
the double bands and the band system for comp understandable
1403
01:11:28.550 --> 01:11:30.689
to say, Hey, we don't like this. It's been in,
1404
01:11:30.750 --> 01:11:33.670
they never tried to change it. understandable to judge that one.
1405
01:11:33.890 --> 01:11:36.130
But when there's a bug, like guys, if it's a bug,
1406
01:11:36.390 --> 01:11:38.649
like bugs happen, we're a live service game. They're going
1407
01:11:38.670 --> 01:11:41.810
to happen. It's okay to just let them have time
1408
01:11:42.069 --> 01:11:44.630
when it comes to solving a bug and getting players
1409
01:11:44.649 --> 01:11:47.130
to differentiate between the two is difficult. Yeah.
1410
01:11:47.909 --> 01:11:52.130
Yeah. All right. Well, I think, I think we're about
1411
01:11:52.170 --> 01:11:56.960
ready to wrap up. Traditional last question is just kind of,
1412
01:11:57.600 --> 01:11:59.020
if you had to give one piece of advice to
1413
01:11:59.869 --> 01:12:03.890
whether that's rivals related, content creation related, whatever you want
1414
01:12:03.930 --> 01:12:06.289
it to be to the audience, what would it be?
1415
01:12:08.310 --> 01:12:14.560
Oh, geez. It would be to find a balance in life.
1416
01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:19.420
Whether you're making content or whether you're playing rivals and
1417
01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:22.239
grinding ranks or even whether you're just working at your job,
1418
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:26.899
do not invest your entire identity, all of your time
1419
01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:31.859
into one thing. Because you will make yourself miserable, especially
1420
01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:35.199
when that one thing doesn't work out. If you invest
1421
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:38.500
all of your time into grinding ranked in rivals, you
1422
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:41.020
put so much onto that rank and that being tied
1423
01:12:41.050 --> 01:12:42.970
to your identity that if you don't achieve that rank,
1424
01:12:43.390 --> 01:12:45.029
it makes you upset when you lose. It makes you
1425
01:12:45.090 --> 01:12:46.750
upset at your teammates. It just makes you a worse
1426
01:12:46.770 --> 01:12:49.149
teammate overall. And it just leads to a very unhappy life.
1427
01:12:49.789 --> 01:12:51.390
Same thing could be said if you're at your job
1428
01:12:51.489 --> 01:12:54.050
or if you're doing content creation and everything else. And
1429
01:12:54.069 --> 01:12:55.770
I'm sure you probably know this as well, you know,
1430
01:12:55.789 --> 01:12:58.350
making content and stuff and trying to balance having a life.
1431
01:12:59.210 --> 01:13:03.029
You know, I always tell people that if I had
1432
01:13:03.050 --> 01:13:04.770
the chance where even if I was 99 out of
1433
01:13:04.810 --> 01:13:06.930
a hundred, it was like one game away, let's say
1434
01:13:06.970 --> 01:13:09.560
from eternity or one of them all or whatever. But
1435
01:13:10.029 --> 01:13:12.899
I had plans the night that, you know, to go
1436
01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:16.279
out with friends, the last night of ranked, I'm going
1437
01:13:16.319 --> 01:13:20.260
out with friends because this stuff does not matter that much.
1438
01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:23.680
Like the people in your life, your friends, your family,
1439
01:13:23.720 --> 01:13:26.439
your community, all of those things that are going to
1440
01:13:26.460 --> 01:13:29.960
be there throughout your life matter far more than you know,
1441
01:13:30.460 --> 01:13:34.159
these silly little games, your job, your content creation, whatever.
1442
01:13:34.270 --> 01:13:35.810
So no matter what you do in life, the best
1443
01:13:35.850 --> 01:13:39.609
advice I can give you as someone who, uh, is
1444
01:13:39.630 --> 01:13:41.949
turning 40 this year and has learned a lot is
1445
01:13:41.989 --> 01:13:44.289
the most important thing in your life is investing in
1446
01:13:44.449 --> 01:13:46.550
that community that you have in your life and finding
1447
01:13:46.569 --> 01:13:48.890
that balance because that's where your happiness will come from.
1448
01:13:49.449 --> 01:13:52.010
It's not going to come from your rank, your job, or, uh,
1449
01:13:53.689 --> 01:13:56.750
or whatever, you know, whatever else you're, you're investing too
1450
01:13:56.789 --> 01:13:58.210
much of your time in. Mm-hmm.
1451
01:13:59.300 --> 01:14:02.079
That's great. Thank you for joining us for another episode
1452
01:14:02.100 --> 01:14:04.250
of the ghost comms podcast. Make sure you check out
1453
01:14:04.270 --> 01:14:06.109
death and gaming, all of his stuff. I'll link it
1454
01:14:06.130 --> 01:14:09.060
down below and we'll see you in the next one. Peace.
1455
01:14:09.300 --> 01:14:10.050
Thank you for having me.