WEBVTT
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00:00:12.856So this week, Chris and I got the opportunity to interview Dr Molly Marty.
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00:00:16.602Molly is a truly incredible person.
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00:00:29.277She is a lawyer turned psychologist, resiliency expert, celebrated business author and founder and CEO of Worldmaker Resilience Institute.
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00:00:37.774Every single time I get the opportunity to spend time with Molly, my life is enriched.
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00:00:45.473She is so knowledgeable, so experienced and incredibly generous.
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00:00:58.054Within this podcast, we discuss resilience, we discuss the value of values and why it's never too early or too late to start the work.
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00:01:26.534We discuss how to create sustainable, resilient businesses and be a high-performing business, and we even delve into what it is to parent teenagers through this very, very difficult time with social media and decay in mental health, and how can we, as parents and adults, help create a resilient new adult.
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00:01:29.222Enjoy, hi, molly.
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00:01:30.167How are you Welcome?
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00:01:33.045Thank you, so good to see both of you.
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00:01:34.831You too, hey Molly.
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00:01:39.070So I've known Molly for about five years.
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00:01:43.292Chris and I have done a bit of work with her NGO, world Maker International.
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00:01:45.105They're fantastic.
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00:01:47.183Please, please, check them out Now.
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00:02:05.875One of the reasons I wanted to host this conversation with Molly is because every single time I have a conversation with her in no uncertain terms, my mind is opened and blown, and I don't mean that hyperbolically.
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00:02:14.979So, molly, for all the conversations we've ever had before, thank you very much, and for what we are about to receive, I am truly grateful.
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00:02:17.424Hey, thank you, molly.
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00:02:26.437Something that's always inspired me about you is the fact that you're so rooted in values.
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00:02:31.526It feels like you've got a really hard line.
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00:02:41.064It feels like you've got a really clear compass in your life which is dedicated or dictated by the values that you live by.
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00:02:52.192Right from an observation have you always been values-led or has that been something that you have grown into?
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00:02:56.829Yeah, that's a great question and hopefully it's a hard line with a soft touch.
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00:03:05.108You know I'd say a conviction or a clarity in my relationship with my values is what I seek.
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00:03:07.552You know it was a process.
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00:03:07.954I mean.
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00:03:22.211The thing is I had values and I was a very goal-driven person and had not connected my accomplishments or my goals to those values until I went to graduate school.
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00:03:28.931So my first career was as a lawyer, then went back to get my master's in PhD in personality and social psychology.
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00:03:39.552I was doing research in grad school and I came across the research on the power of values and I started to do the work.
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00:03:48.668I was creating and co-creating performance psychology programs at the time and so I was applying it in my own life.
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00:03:50.206And then, how do I teach this out?
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00:04:07.691And I remember, just kind of walking around in a daze, when I started to really intentionally ask some questions and get clarity about what were those most important things in my life, what were my North Stars and what was I going to really commit to.
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00:04:12.664And I remember the moment that I thought, oh wow, this is powerful.
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00:04:13.889Is my husband.
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00:04:17.569This was probably around 1997.
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00:04:19.505I had a little guy, my son.
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00:04:21.105I was pregnant with my second.
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00:04:26.108But my husband said what are you doing?
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00:04:31.995You're different, you're showing up in a different way, you're a better wife, you're a better mom.
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00:04:35.002He's like what's going on?
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00:04:43.545And I hadn't shared that values work with him directly and that was such a powerful mirror and I thought, oh wow, I'm going to stay on this journey.
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00:04:48.887And so, um, you know, I used to teach values on one of my earlier books too.
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00:04:52.083We'd have lists of them and circle and what ones resonate.
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00:05:12.661And now I've created some really um, interactive ways to help people do that, uh, excavating in their life and um, and and and let me say another really powerful thing that I've experienced with values, because I read it from the research but when you experience it, it really brings it to life.
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00:05:17.411And that's that once we accomplish goals, our energy level drops.
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00:05:21.129Our brains said, okay, goal accomplished, you don't need to produce more energy done.
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00:05:29.309And whether that is an athletic performance or you know, my at that time I was experiencing an academic performance.
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00:05:38.091But if you connect what you're doing to your values, you're growing those in it, even if you hit setbacks.
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00:05:48.826So when you hit setback and you can fall back on those values, so when you know, I was an undergrad, as an example, I knew I wanted that 4.0.
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00:05:50.666I knew I wanted to be valedictorian.
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00:05:52.567I had that goal and I accomplished it.
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00:06:00.911I walked across that stage, johnny and Chris, and that empty feeling, it's just like what now?
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00:06:04.750It was so empty because it had been my goal for three years.
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00:06:12.970I graduated in three years and then it was just done and I thought what next?
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00:06:13.471What now?
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00:06:15.466I had nothing inside of me.
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00:06:17.283Fast forward 10 years.
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00:06:22.899I had done the values work On paper it looked the same, graduated with my PhD, early, top of my class.
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00:06:25.485All those things on paper looked very similar.
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00:06:35.826I danced across that stage because I knew what I valued and I had connected it and I knew that the path I was on was the outlet for value.
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00:06:37.571And you never end that.
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00:06:45.185It's not like one day I get to a point and say, wow, I was really a justice seeker today or wow, I just showed a lot of integrity in that situation.
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00:06:45.567I'm done.
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00:06:47.786Values don't work that way, goal work.
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00:07:00.865And so when you can identify your values and link your goals to those, then even if you're an athlete and you blow out a knee or military and you get injured or whatever life brings.
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00:07:09.307To all of it, you have that foundational fallback and it makes it easier to get back up and what?
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00:07:14.339what are the exercises that you've developed, then, to help people?
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00:07:23.742yeah, I, I like to keep it's so experiential my trainings that I don't just want to say, okay, we do this and we do that.
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00:07:27.750Um, because especially the values piece is one of my favorite pieces.
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00:07:33.947Um it, you know you want to go mind blown and put through some of these exercises.
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00:07:36.331Um, but people can start anywhere they.
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00:07:36.692You know.
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00:07:39.351You can get out of the internet, you can look at books.
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00:07:40.355There's lists of values.
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00:07:42.807So if you start nowhere else, that's where I started.
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00:07:46.922Um, just you know what's more important and okay.
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00:07:54.786Then I start with 30 things that are like, okay, these are really important things, they're all good, but these really have a piece for me.
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00:07:59.922And then down to 20, and then you know, usually eight to 12 is where people end up.
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00:08:13.336So to really hone in a couple exercises people can do and this overlaps too with that ideal self things like writing your obituary and working backwards can be really powerful.
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00:08:19.552One of my favorites is a 75th birthday celebration or retirement party.
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00:08:30.348Envision yourselves at that party and you have, you know, these people that are really dear to you, three people, and you see that and what do they say?
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00:08:32.634You know, how did you impact their lives?
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00:08:33.923How did you inspire them?
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00:08:35.866What is their toast to you?
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00:08:46.758That they're saying I'm better because you've been in my life and you've shown me this, or you made a difference in this way and you've shown me this, or you made a difference in this way.
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00:08:50.951You know, there's exercises you can do that way that are really a fun way to bring this to life.
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00:08:56.913But I actually I do a values where I force people.
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00:09:00.229Sometimes they call me a masochistic psychologist.
00:09:00.229 -->
00:09:01.846I'm like putting really good intentions.
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00:09:03.426People are pounding the table.
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00:09:05.542I don't want to, but I have an exercise where it's a refinement exercise.
00:09:05.542 -->
00:09:06.422I'm putting really good intentions.
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00:09:07.062People are pounding the table.
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00:09:19.274I don't want to, but I have an exercise where it's a refinement exercise and you need to let some things go, not even talking about values at that time, but talking about experiences and people and then connecting that to values.
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00:09:21.315So it's a fun way to bring that forth.
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00:09:27.375But there's a lot of different ways to get there, and it's not the type of work you do once and you're done.
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00:09:28.602I've been doing this various work.
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00:09:37.806I'm going on 30 years, since I had dug deep into it in grad school, and I'm still in a refining process.
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00:09:40.052So interesting.
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00:09:43.085I feel that I'm certainly refining my relationship with it.
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00:09:46.176I'm refining my relationship with it.
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00:10:29.533I'm refining my relationship with it through sort of private contemplation, but also because I come up against opposition to the concept of defining it relatively regularly through contact with clients, where they look at it like a marketing exercise as opposed to a sort of an intrinsic discovery exercise and uh or or that or or, like something they have to do to attract talent and not something they have to live by, if, if that makes sense and therefore getting quite robust conversation.
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00:11:04.850Also because I think it's quite difficult to, because it's not a quick exercise, it's not like, as you said, it's dumb and even when I was on holiday recently, that whole identity with I never really know what to call it, whether it's purpose or whether it's a why which is obviously being made very famous, or whether it's like your primary motivators in life, however you want to articulate, I don't really care how you want to articulate it, as long as you connect it sort of intrinsically.
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00:11:17.417I feel that, even though I'd be mixing lyrical about this kind of stuff for about seven years, even two weeks ago on holiday, I was like I know, I'm good, now I know what it is Now.
00:11:17.417 -->
00:11:20.823I know what made it make me.
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00:11:22.144So it is really difficult.
00:11:22.144 -->
00:11:29.755When you first started Discover Amir, was it a solo project or did you have support?
00:11:45.519 -->
00:12:01.490D1 athletes a lot at the University of Iowa and then over time worked with athletes up to Olympians and world competitors, and so that was the context of me doing that work is then teaching it out through performance sciences and also the corporate work with performance sciences, and so there was a lot of back and forth with him.
00:12:01.490 -->
00:12:09.529And then once my husband made that observation, you know, and that he started his work, and so that was a lot of back and forth with him, and then once my husband made that observation, you know, and that he started his work, and so that was a lot of great deep conversation.
00:12:09.529 -->
00:12:15.267Initially it was solo, like I really remember, just walking around.
00:12:15.267 -->
00:12:21.124It was baffling because it was just so big and I would, I would see things.
00:12:21.124 -->
00:12:28.009It's not that I hadn't had those values, they didn't just show up once I did the work, but I wasn't being intentional about them.
00:12:28.009 -->
00:12:31.421So, as an example, one thing I'm a justice seeker, you know.
00:12:31.441 -->
00:12:32.886I wrote a book Walking with Justice.
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00:12:34.100You know me to seek justice.
00:12:34.100 -->
00:12:41.041I want that for everyone, but I brought a bat for the most vulnerable among us and that's why I became a lawyer.
00:12:41.041 -->
00:12:41.480I mean I was 14.
00:12:41.480 -->
00:12:42.822And that's why I became a lawyer.
00:12:42.822 -->
00:12:44.123I mean, I was 14.
00:12:44.123 -->
00:12:46.625I witnessed an injustice.
00:12:46.625 -->
00:12:53.571I just thought that's not okay and I'm going to go to law school and I'm going to do something about that.
00:12:53.990 -->
00:13:21.346But I didn't know that that was one of my values, and same with you know now that I know that, and same with you know, starting Worldmaker, it was one of those not on my watch moment where we were losing teenagers by suicide.
00:13:21.346 -->
00:13:22.148We lost three within six months.
00:13:22.148 -->
00:13:24.673More kids were going to the hospital and I thought this not, in what kind of world is this?
00:13:24.673 -->
00:13:24.995Okay, it's not.
00:13:24.995 -->
00:13:25.836And so I'm going to entail some solo work.
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00:13:29.047You're digging and you're really excavating, but it's really a.
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00:13:48.931I'd say it's a beautiful process because it's a self-discovery process and you're like, oh, that's why you start to see these decisions that from outside in make no sense to many people, and you've done this and you did this, and then from a done space, it helps weave that all together.
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00:14:07.919Something we get asked quite a lot, and have been recently, is around some work that we do on values, around whether it should be aspirational or should it be something that's already the truth or should it be something that's already the truth?
00:14:08.879 -->
00:14:18.269Yeah, and I think it's going to be true because it's your inner truth and, organizationally as well, you want that to be true and really woven into the foundation.
00:14:18.269 -->
00:14:22.229I mean, you guys were with us when we did the work for Rolemaker.
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00:14:24.200What are our organizational values?
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00:14:46.029And you get leaders like Colonel David know, colonel David Richmond and General Dr Cannon and Special Forces Veteran Kirk Ferguson I'm thinking about the people that were on the table right, they all have a clarity of value and that conviction to live by that, and so they bring that and we're like well, table, what does this organization look like?
00:14:46.029 -->
00:15:01.928And and so it's always going to be true, because values are, you know, sure they're not your values, um, and there I think there is going to be aspirational because they, like I said, they don't have, uh, um, an achievement point.
00:15:01.928 -->
00:15:05.754You always are continuing to grow in them and find new outlets.
00:15:05.754 -->
00:15:10.985I think Chris's most best answers in life yes and both.
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00:15:13.046Is that one or the other.
00:15:13.046 -->
00:15:17.548Then the question is how simplified do we want to be?
00:15:17.548 -->
00:15:19.969How do we want to hone down?
00:15:21.142 -->
00:15:23.206With WorldMaker, we knew we were collaborative.
00:15:23.206 -->
00:15:28.432We said we're collaborative, we're intentional, we're trailblazing.
00:15:28.432 -->
00:15:31.966That was that innovation piece, and we do everything with integrity.
00:15:31.966 -->
00:15:35.346We're dedicated to do everything with integrity, so we called it upstanding.
00:15:35.346 -->
00:15:37.587But that can be put into one sentence.
00:15:37.587 -->
00:15:40.469You know once you're like okay, what do you stand for?
00:15:40.469 -->
00:15:49.302You know we're intentional, collaborative trailblazers who are committed to integrity.
00:15:49.302 -->
00:15:52.168So it stands for a whole lot more.
00:15:52.168 -->
00:15:56.195But I believe that values should be that practical.
00:15:56.195 -->
00:16:07.754You should be able to kind of put them in your pocket, because, I mean, we're living in a world where our values are challenged all the time, day in and day out, and sometimes in little ways and sometimes in bigger ways.
00:16:07.754 -->
00:16:17.091But you want to be able to know what that compass is, or what the bumpers are to help you make those decisions as you go.
00:16:17.091 -->
00:16:21.910Does that resonate with where you guys have ended up with that?
00:16:24.500 -->
00:16:25.403Yeah, I think it does.
00:16:25.403 -->
00:16:27.350I think it does.
00:16:27.350 -->
00:16:29.767There is always that.
00:16:29.767 -->
00:16:34.489I mean the list of people that you just reeled off on the board of Worldmaker.
00:16:34.489 -->
00:16:42.307We know some of them very well and you have.
00:16:42.307 -->
00:16:44.373This is the point I'm trying to make.
00:16:45.402 -->
00:16:53.128We work quite often with the young successful companies, the list of people that you've just said.
00:16:53.128 -->
00:17:02.065Uh, have experience, they fail, they've succeeded a lot and they know what makes them tick right.
00:17:02.065 -->
00:17:07.453It's one of the reasons that they're attracted to working in your sector, working with you.
00:17:07.453 -->
00:17:14.490Quite often you're working with people relatively new to their careers.
00:17:14.490 -->
00:17:21.400You know, sort of 30 and under, who are in a company which may be exploding.
00:17:21.400 -->
00:17:26.950I mean that positively growing incredibly quickly which may be exploding.
00:17:26.950 -->
00:17:50.672I mean that positively growing incredibly quickly and to try and guide senior leadership to not only that self-reflection but also mutual communal reflection can be a process, can be a process and it can take some time.
00:17:50.672 -->
00:17:56.759So, yes, what you say totally reflects, but I also what we experience.
00:17:56.759 -->
00:18:10.306But also working with people who haven't had the experience of, say, david Richmond, of leadership challenges, which he's faith, yeah, harder to argue yeah, well, we were.
00:18:11.588 -->
00:18:17.502Yeah, I'd say we were all 30 something sometime, right, I mean, that's when I I started my own work.
00:18:17.502 -->
00:18:28.391I, I was green, I was, um, I was, I was a go-getter, right, I was gold German, but I had not done this work and it was new to me.
00:18:28.391 -->
00:18:57.026So, whether you're working with someone on an individual basis and they're going to do probably one of two things within that organization they're going to get their own individual clarity of values and be able to thrive in that organization, probably do a player leading up and find their own path or they're going to say oh this isn't the place for me, and then they'll go to another place where they can be supported in their values.
00:18:58.048 -->
00:19:11.051And then, ideally, you are talking top-down, because that's when you get into culture, that when you, you know, are creating that organizational structure that is interacting with and supporting individuals and their values.
00:19:11.051 -->
00:19:38.325Um, you know, and I used to have a reputation when I would consult, you know, I did a lot of consulting, but especially within university of iowa, a lot of their professionals and their leaders, and it was probably more times than not that people, after they worked with me, would make a decision to retire from there and move on to something else, or not retire mid-career right, make a career change.
00:19:38.325 -->
00:19:41.167And people are, like, what are you telling that?
00:19:41.167 -->
00:19:43.228Like, are you saying University of Iowa is horrible?
00:19:43.228 -->
00:19:46.688I'm like no, I love the Hawkeyes, I believe the black and gold.
00:19:46.688 -->
00:19:49.721You know I am taught there, have my degrees from there.
00:19:49.721 -->
00:20:00.102It's not about the university specifically, it's about who they are, what they value, what they want and where their role is.
00:20:00.102 -->
00:20:03.143So sometimes they could do a shift within the university.
00:20:03.143 -->
00:20:13.969Sometimes, you know, they would move from university administrator to an NGO or to, you know, opening up their own consulting firm.
00:20:13.969 -->
00:20:26.415So it's that process, but I think that we're working both Because, yeah, I gave that example of seasoned leaders that helped shape the NGO that I direct.
00:20:26.816 -->
00:20:29.497We were all, we've all been there.
00:20:29.497 -->
00:20:44.054We weren't born None of us came into the world knowing exactly who we were and what we valued, and so I would just I think that's a great time to be doing this.
00:20:44.054 -->
00:21:00.240Values work the earlier the better.
00:21:00.240 -->
00:21:01.644But I think it's a great time to be doing this.
00:21:01.644 -->
00:21:02.686Values work the earlier the better.
00:21:02.686 -->
00:21:15.432But I think it's a common time as well, those late 20s, early 30s, and then, because you are young and you have that life ahead of you, you know how do you want to design that and what are those values that are going to be guiding you forward.
00:21:20.968 -->
00:21:35.874I'm really interested in work that you've done with high-performing individuals, whether it is within the corporate world or whether it's an Olympia.
00:21:35.874 -->
00:21:56.840Within sports, and when you get people who are so goal-oriented, show goal-oriented, how do you prevent the crash post-success?
00:21:56.840 -->
00:22:17.432I know you spoke about your own experience first masters versus second masters but when the success is so tangible and held in other people's eyes if I win an olympic medal, right, you can't say that that goal isn't there and once I achieve that goal, I achieve that goal.
00:22:17.432 -->
00:22:59.567If you say, sell my business for x amount of pounds and I sell the business for x amount of pounds and I sell the business for X amount of pounds, how do you stop someone crashing, even if their values are about curiosity and joy and kindness, right, you kind of think, well, I still don't have a race to run, yeah yeah, in my experience, you can help prevent that crash by the values, by understanding that this was just an extraordinary output of the values, an extraordinary opportunity to live them to a high level.
00:23:00.188 -->
00:23:02.452But what next right?
00:23:02.452 -->
00:23:02.752What?
00:23:02.752 -->
00:23:03.173What?
00:23:03.173 -->
00:23:08.650There's more to accomplish, there's more in it to do, and and what does that look like?
00:23:08.650 -->
00:23:19.269So you know, and it's that you know, we know from the study, uh, one flight we put up in our training with the negativity bias and how our brains club onto the negative.
00:23:19.269 -->
00:23:21.496Um is the silver medalist.
00:23:21.496 -->
00:23:26.340You know, we have all these photos of olympians and the gold medalists are happy and the bronze medalists are happy.
00:23:26.340 -->
00:23:27.642Silver medalist, we have all these photos of Olympians and the gold medalists are happy and the bronze medalists are happy.
00:23:27.642 -->
00:23:39.977Silver medalists are the ones we really need to be tending to, because they're looking at what they almost had and didn't, where bronze is just happy that they made it onto the platform.
00:23:39.977 -->
00:24:08.648No-transcript, you and um.
00:24:08.648 -->
00:24:10.292So what?
00:24:10.292 -->
00:24:11.015Let's deal with this.
00:24:11.015 -->
00:24:16.387The, the silver medalist, um, but we can also, or do you want to stick with the gold medalist?
00:24:16.387 -->
00:24:19.926That can go either way in this, but you're kind of talking about the gold medalist, but which?
00:24:20.008 -->
00:24:21.028one, let's go.
00:24:21.028 -->
00:24:21.951So which I?
00:24:21.951 -->
00:24:23.192That's interesting.
00:24:23.574 -->
00:24:24.154Okay.
00:24:24.154 -->
00:24:25.737So the silver medalist?
00:24:25.737 -->
00:24:32.892Are they making it personal, like I am a loser, I'm not a gold medalist, I'm bringing it to them?
00:24:32.892 -->
00:24:57.359Or are they reframing that to say you know, I fell short on this competition and I'm disappointed, but it's about something outside of that external locus of control, right, it's something that doesn't change who I am as a person, but just it fell short on this one.
00:24:57.359 -->
00:25:09.113And then are they going to say, permanent, I'm never going to achieve what I want to achieve, I'm never going to be on that ultimate platform that's most important to me.
00:25:09.113 -->
00:25:10.919Um, so are they using that?
00:25:10.919 -->
00:25:12.022You know I always.
00:25:12.022 -->
00:25:13.207You know I knew this would happen.
00:25:13.207 -->
00:25:14.710I always was fall short.
00:25:14.710 -->
00:25:15.653So you're using that.
00:25:15.653 -->
00:25:18.365Never always should be of an indication.
00:25:18.506 -->
00:25:21.849Yet the look at that reframing and then it's a pervasive.
00:25:21.849 -->
00:25:36.471There are some medalists that say, not only am I not, didn't get my gold, but I'm a bad husband or wife, I'm a bad parent, I'm a bad athlete, I just pretty much suck at everything.
00:25:36.471 -->
00:25:37.708Right, you start to go.
00:25:37.708 -->
00:25:45.357Because this is what our brain does when we hit the setback in life we pull it inward and we make it personal.
00:25:45.357 -->
00:25:48.867We think it's just going to be forever.
00:25:48.867 -->
00:25:50.711Not okay, this was today's performance.
00:25:50.711 -->
00:25:53.925I am going to find a way or ways to turn the page and move forward.
00:25:53.925 -->
00:26:02.310And we start to let it herniate our being and how we are across all these different avenues in our life.
00:26:02.310 -->
00:26:04.674And so there's things that you can do.
00:26:04.674 -->
00:26:10.477You know, if you do find yourself after a success, doing some of that, there's reframing that you can do.
00:26:11.440 -->
00:26:25.606But I've experienced it and I've seen it many times, that the value of value, the ability that if you fall short, you can still even I mean, how many athletes have I had that asked?
00:26:25.606 -->
00:26:27.509You know ACLs or MCLs.
00:26:27.509 -->
00:26:45.303They're injured, they're on the bench, they're out for the season, they might be out for two, and if they have those values defined and they still value excellence and they still value hard work and they still value being a teammate and they still value all those things, then that question comes with the curiosity that you mentioned, johnny.
00:26:45.303 -->
00:26:48.410How do I show up in this now?
00:26:48.410 -->
00:26:52.438What does it look like to be a teammate from the bench?
00:26:52.438 -->
00:26:58.016What does it look like to be dedicated to my work ethic?
00:26:58.036 -->
00:27:00.425It starts to show up in rehab and recovery.
00:27:00.425 -->
00:27:03.108It starts to show up in different ways.
00:27:03.108 -->
00:27:06.053It you know, the more closely aligned you are with those values.
00:27:06.053 -->
00:27:16.141I think this the softer, the landing, um, but to the extent that you know you have a great success and then you start thinking, oh, that was it and nothing else.
00:27:16.141 -->
00:27:17.204You know, that was my glory.
00:27:17.204 -->
00:27:21.849It's all downhill from there that that becomes a matter of reframing the narrative.
00:27:22.691 -->
00:27:36.474Wow, yeah, and if you yeah, I mean I sort of relate so much to what what you've said personally and and through the professional uh you know working.
00:27:36.474 -->
00:27:50.832I really love that idea that, if you're being able to fully articulate the value that you live your life by, the only question when you hit a bad patch is to ask how do I show up now?
00:27:50.832 -->
00:27:55.444It makes so much sense and it's such a liberating question.
00:27:55.444 -->
00:28:00.616Right, all right, well, I know what, how I tick, so how do I show up?
00:28:00.616 -->
00:28:06.214And I think that, yeah, sorry well, I should.
00:28:06.576 -->
00:28:08.038I think you're bringing up a great point.
00:28:08.038 -->
00:28:14.396I think that values and authenticity and I'm like that, right because you should.
00:28:14.396 -->
00:28:24.210When you know what you value, you do have a freedom of expression and you have a freedom from letting other people's judgments impact you.
00:28:24.210 -->
00:28:29.694I make you very little what other people think of me, because I know what I value.
00:28:29.694 -->
00:28:35.933And I remember when I said I danced across the stage after I'd done the valueless work and I graduated.
00:28:37.126 -->
00:28:40.415I started at Crowborough when my oldest was nine months old.
00:28:40.415 -->
00:28:45.373I had two daughters along the way, so my baby youngest was three months old.
00:28:45.373 -->
00:28:52.431But I remember my graduation party and family, but there'd be professors stopping by and I was barefoot.
00:28:52.431 -->
00:28:53.454I just remember that.
00:28:53.454 -->
00:29:00.373I just remember I don't want you, I just I had such a sense of freedom and celebration that shoes just felt like too confronting.
00:29:00.373 -->
00:29:08.711So I was wearing this sundress and I remember Monty and a couple of people you know be like my dad was there and you know a few people asked me during that day like don't you want to put your shoes on?
00:29:08.711 -->
00:29:33.896You got the chair of the department here and I'm like no, I really don't, and I think that's just a little, you know silly story, looking back of that dance, that weaving, interweaving of values and authenticity.
00:29:33.896 -->
00:29:41.565Because when you know what you value and one of my values isn't how I appear to others or I don't know what values that fall along there, but clearly they're not on my list.
00:29:43.107 -->
00:29:44.232And so there is that freedom.
00:29:44.232 -->
00:29:46.965You mentioned that, so that just came up when you talked about that freedom.
00:29:47.847 -->
00:30:00.093Yeah, it seems to be the way that you sorry, the way the way that you described, you know, running, dancing across that stage barefoot and that freedom that you feel felt.
00:30:00.093 -->
00:30:37.691It seems to be so different to so many people's experience within their organizations and I just think it's often over at that point around authenticity, that freedom, the inclination, the surrounding support to actually simply show up as yourself and I love the way you describe it because it sounds so, it's effortless and it feels that at the moment, to or free too frequently to be oneself in an organization seems to be fraught with too much risk.
00:30:37.691 -->
00:30:52.320Um, it feels like an effort to do that and I wonder what your thoughts were around how important authenticity is to performance within an organization.
00:30:55.425 -->
00:31:03.397I think it's central for people to be able to be themselves, to be fully themselves and to play to their strengths.
00:31:03.397 -->
00:31:05.441To know their strengths and to play to their strengths.
00:31:05.441 -->
00:31:11.549I think that's where you're going to see high performance and we're really, you know.
00:31:11.549 -->
00:31:12.616Then we're talking about culture.
00:31:12.616 -->
00:31:22.104Right is where you go pretty quickly when you talk about what does that organization look like that not only supports but welcomes and celebrates that?
00:31:22.104 -->
00:31:24.916So I think that's where, then, we're talking about.
00:31:24.916 -->
00:31:27.648Culture is where this conversation is heading for us.
00:31:27.648 -->
00:31:48.496How do you create that organization that welcomes everyone, supports them in understanding what their strengths are, gets them into a position as quickly as you can that they can play to their strengths and start to be building that culture and that organization that can work in that way.
00:31:48.496 -->
00:31:50.371That's peak performance.
00:31:50.371 -->
00:31:52.092You're going to see the outputs of that.
00:31:54.787 -->
00:31:57.214So culture is key to high performance, right?
00:31:57.214 -->
00:32:14.031So that's the obvious statement, because I come across again anecdotally, but I come across a lot of leaders, pretty antiquated views, who make the statement I don't care about the people, I just care about the results.
00:32:17.467 -->
00:32:18.068And do you say?
00:32:18.068 -->
00:32:19.614And who produces those results?
00:32:20.945 -->
00:32:22.993What's your turnover star flag?
00:32:22.993 -->
00:32:24.570What are they saying about you?
00:32:24.570 -->
00:32:26.611Not that we care about you know.
00:32:26.611 -->
00:32:33.452Not that that matters necessarily, but yeah, no, very interesting you've heard this getting.
00:32:33.613 -->
00:32:37.469We haven't here in the states, but culture eats strategy for lunch.
00:32:37.469 -->
00:32:38.231Have you heard that?
00:32:38.251 -->
00:32:57.325saying, yeah, ken, right, so we're having a really, for me, fascinating conversation about um business resilience, really, but your work at the moment isn't primarily focused on business resilience.
00:32:57.325 -->
00:32:59.367I know that you do that and you deliver that.
00:32:59.367 -->
00:33:02.051How, why the?
00:33:02.051 -->
00:33:03.453Why the gear change?
00:33:07.579 -->
00:33:28.890Yeah, so I was teaching I was an adjunct at the University of Iowa Department of Psych and I just had my the book Walking with Justice was just released and doing my consulting with athletes who were corporate and in 2010, 11, my small community here in Iowa lost three teens by suicide.
00:33:28.890 -->
00:33:31.932Within six months, we lost three boys.
00:33:31.932 -->
00:33:41.479We then had more kids going to the hospital with a temp, including some girls getting in trouble, and it just stopped me in my track, my track.
00:33:41.479 -->
00:33:53.467It was just one of those not-on-my-watch moments and one of those moments for me to again check in with my values.
00:33:53.467 -->
00:33:55.632And you know, where did I want to be, giving my limited time and energy?
00:33:55.632 -->
00:33:56.855At that time, I thought it would be one year.
00:33:56.855 -->
00:34:09.367I asked my husband you know, what do you think of me stepping back from all kind of money-making activities and just help stop this loss of life and help this community recover?
00:34:09.367 -->
00:34:10.068I think I can.
00:34:10.068 -->
00:34:13.635You know, help them with some tools from my performance psych world.
00:34:13.635 -->
00:34:16.628Um, and I, he said, go.
00:34:16.628 -->
00:34:20.036Yeah, you're helping kids, you're helping communities, we're okay, just go.
00:34:20.036 -->
00:34:30.867And one year has turned into 13 and um, because we got pulled on so quickly by other communities, so very quickly.
00:34:30.907 -->
00:34:31.268We heard.
00:34:31.268 -->
00:34:33.936Once people heard you know I was doing this work.
00:34:33.936 -->
00:34:44.472Another community had lost two teens in Iowa, another lost a child and then a Wisconsin community had lost four and Illinois lost one, and all these states right across the states.
00:34:44.472 -->
00:34:51.295I was hearing from people so I thought, okay, me, we're stepping into these needs and I need to understand them.
00:34:51.295 -->
00:34:59.739Um, and I think we benefit from having a non-profit and NGO that we can kind of um have a way to be serving people.
00:34:59.739 -->
00:35:14.041So we founded that um looked around the world at where I could learn the most quickly because I had been doing resilience work but I'd been doing it with the top 1-8% of performers thinking that was resilient.
00:35:14.041 -->
00:35:29.059So I learned a lot to step into trauma and community-based work and the needs of mental health, initially with our teens and the needs of mental health initially with their teens, and so I took a team to study with the Israel Trauma Coalition.
00:35:29.820 -->
00:35:39.199I started creating some models and a few years into that work a researcher from the Warrior Project came and asked for my help with post-combat stress recovery.
00:35:39.199 -->
00:35:42.815I am from a multi-generational military family.
00:35:42.815 -->
00:35:44.431It just really resonated with me.
00:35:44.431 -->
00:35:48.635I had an uncle who didn't go home from the war and saw that impact on my mom.
00:35:48.635 -->
00:35:53.556But my dad served and military has been good to us.
00:35:53.556 -->
00:36:01.054My uncle met in the Army and my sister and brother-in-law had an Air Force, so it just it resonated and I wanted to give back.
00:36:01.626 -->
00:36:21.918So I started that work and then I think, because I brought you know, I'm not a clinician, I was performing psychology and social psychology a strong emphasis and understanding of connection and how we're impacted by each other and norms and those norms in culture work.
00:36:21.918 -->
00:36:29.896So I think I brought a fresh look to what had been largely winicolized before or for whatever reason.
00:36:29.896 -->
00:36:32.764The work really resonated with people and it grew.
00:36:32.764 -->
00:36:52.393So now we have worked, you know, educated people through a pandemic, virtually over 150 countries, but we're broadly, as you know, in the UK, in the US, but I've been up to Canada and down to Australia and just globally with this work that I was going to do for one year.
00:36:52.393 -->
00:37:01.936That's the career change and I'm just steering the ship and it's really making an impact.
00:37:03.967 -->
00:37:17.128I lost count, I've never counted one by one, but everyone is precious but those experiences I've had of being that person where someone says I wouldn't be here, I don't want something for this work.
00:37:17.128 -->
00:37:19.235You know I had a plan I was going to take my life.
00:37:19.235 -->
00:37:26.300I thought nothing to lose, just go to this training one day, not going to go home and do it.
00:37:26.300 -->
00:37:30.536And they're still standing there and then getting the help you know the need.
00:37:30.536 -->
00:37:34.990And one woman just had come back and had an experience like that about a year ago.
00:37:34.990 -->
00:37:45.550And then I was back in that same area and she came back to a follow-up training and she you know, we, we had a really amazing conversation.
00:37:45.550 -->
00:37:59.501So to me that it's such a privilege and an honor to be in that position to help people when they are so vulnerable and then and not to stop there.
00:37:59.501 -->
00:38:08.695Right, we don't want people just to survive, but how do we help them design their lives and create those environments where they and their families can thrive?
00:38:08.695 -->
00:38:11.344So that's my day job.
00:38:12.708 -->
00:38:35.903I mean, it's so wonderful, and anybody who's had the misfortune of experiencing someone close to them taking that own life will um, who knows how important the work is that you're doing so on behalf of everybody.
00:38:35.903 -->
00:38:37.126Thank you for that.
00:38:37.126 -->
00:38:44.086My family had that experience, so it's truly special work that you do.
00:38:44.086 -->
00:39:21.047As a parent, I'm fascinated by resilience and the importance of resilience, and I'm petrified of my children moving into their teenage years right With how social media and the rest of it is affecting them and the fact that there is no break from peers ever because the peers are always in their room on their phones.
00:39:21.047 -->
00:39:31.215What advice would you give to a parent to try and foster resilient teenagers?
00:39:32.478 -->
00:39:35.929try and foster resilient teenagers.
00:39:35.929 -->
00:39:44.507Yeah, I mean, first I would say, be really careful about having their peers in their room with them, or strangers, even worse, predators.
00:39:44.507 -->
00:40:03.923You know, I hear from a lot of parents and we do an educational piece around technology and social media, but a lot of parents come with that attitude of, oh, I couldn't look at their phone or I couldn't you know that would be a violation of privacy, or I can't take their phone, that's theirs.
00:40:03.923 -->
00:40:17.347And none of these are really young children and I think would you just drop your kid off in the middle of New York City or London and say, okay, you know, I'm not going to make your privacy, just do your thing.
00:40:17.347 -->
00:40:34.755We really need a wait-and-call appearance and our Surgeon General here on the US side has recently issued social media, you know, is a public health issue and issued a warning against it.
00:40:34.795 -->
00:40:49.418But some common sense I mean the delay and my kids were, you know, um growing along the technology sweep, so it was a bit easier with us on the older one, um, but my son didn't have the smartphone until senior year.
00:40:49.418 -->
00:40:50.481I was going off to college.
00:40:50.481 -->
00:41:03.545Our daughter had her flip phone and then she got into a lot of leadership stuff in half grade and you know strings of 25, 30 people on text and she couldn't keep up and we're like, okay, I mean she was responsible with it and so she.
00:41:03.545 -->
00:41:08.702You know, I see, kids, you need to have them earn their smartphone.
00:41:08.702 -->
00:41:21.690And more and more I'm seeing these parents to collaborate because it's easier when you have a group that says no, because your child say I'm the only one who doesn't have a phone.
00:41:21.690 -->
00:41:26.125And so find your allies, you two together.
00:41:26.144 -->
00:41:27.266Your kids are about the same age.
00:41:27.266 -->
00:41:32.976When they're clamoring for that phone, you can say no, tony's kids don't have it yet, chris's kids don't have it yet.
00:41:32.976 -->
00:41:35.221Phone you can say no, you know, tony's kids don't have it yet, chris's kids don't have it yet.
00:41:35.221 -->
00:41:39.608And find other people, other parents, who will just put some common sense practices in place.
00:41:39.608 -->
00:41:45.858Phones don't go in the bedroom of the kids.
00:41:45.858 -->
00:41:47.527Phones get charged in a family docking area every night down in the kitchen.
00:41:47.527 -->
00:41:48.771Phones don't come into the dining room.
00:41:48.771 -->
00:41:52.059You know when you have your meal and do have the family meal.
00:41:52.079 -->
00:42:01.746We know those build resilience and we know that they're also a place where you tell those family stories and that has a unique resilience building place for children.
00:42:01.746 -->
00:42:04.463They start to get a sense of who they are and where they came from.
00:42:04.463 -->
00:42:14.920You know I can tell you, you know I grew up with that, but I know it from a really line of strong women, independent women, and that helped shape me.
00:42:15.275 -->
00:42:17.905You know they didn't educate women west of the Mississippi.
00:42:17.905 -->
00:42:22.586So my 17-year-old grandmother got on a train and went to Northwestern and got her education.
00:42:22.586 -->
00:42:27.880So that was teaching me at a very young age we value our education, we're a strong, independent woman.
00:42:27.880 -->
00:42:33.315You know you start to tell those stories, both of the wins and also the trials.
00:42:33.315 -->
00:42:37.222That same woman was widowed with seven children.
00:42:37.222 -->
00:42:48.085Later in life got into real estate and so all of these stories kids need to hear them and that's on the parents to provide those environments.
00:42:48.085 -->
00:42:50.543So I have a lot to say about this issue.
00:42:50.543 -->
00:43:05.246I'm not going to rant that I really encourage parents to get educated and get support and to create their own supportive network, because you are the primary gatekeeper.
00:43:06.014 -->
00:43:18.201You know if a child doesn't have the money to have their cell phone subscription and payment and you know when they're old enough to get a job and cover that bill and that's another conversation.
00:43:18.201 -->
00:43:20.824But that was part of how we also did that in our house.
00:43:20.824 -->
00:43:27.844You know, if you want that, that's a privilege, it's not a necessity, and so you're going to help be responsible for that.
00:43:28.916 -->
00:43:38.340And it requires the parents or the adult, the carer, to have the same discipline, because you've got to practice what you preach.
00:43:38.601 -->
00:43:39.503And model and model.
00:43:42.237 -->
00:43:47.260If you're the one that's on the phone throughout dinner, it hurts my heart.
00:43:47.260 -->
00:44:17.739When we have the farmer's markets, and they're a beautiful day, and this young child, 18 months old, maybe just short of two, so much that parents could be, you know all the colors, all the people, all the flavors, all the smells, all the everything On this beautiful sunny Saturday that a parent could be engaging, and this child sitting in the back of the wedding being cool on watching a movie, sitting in the back of the wedding being cool on a watching a movie.
00:44:17.739 -->
00:44:51.490And uh, yeah, I do just want to wake up, um, because and and I know it's hard, and I know there's this tidal wave, um, and and so we need to be intentional about it, but it's, it's worth it, because I, I can tell you, I see a big difference, even societally, um, culturally, where the development of certain social media platforms were released over time, um, so, yeah, so, where you, your kids, are now, you're going to really um, be called to be, um, intentional and diligent I was wondering, though, whether, yeah, absolutely.
00:44:51.530 -->
00:45:05.586And I woke up this morning and my wife had put our phones in the larder or the pantry, or whatever you call it, right at the back, and she was like children cannot get to those phones because our eldest is trying to look up a song or look up whatever it was.
00:45:05.586 -->
00:45:13.079And she's like, from now on, every night, they live with the potatoes Good idea.
00:45:13.079 -->
00:45:17.922And she's like, from now on, every night, they live with the potatoes.
00:45:17.922 -->
00:45:24.789And I was wondering you know, maybe I'm too positive, but I was wondering.
00:45:24.809 -->
00:45:37.181I look at my brother's kids and they're just 10 years older than my children, and the parents and the children were discovering social media at the same time.
00:45:37.181 -->
00:45:47.411So the parents weren't, hadn't had that experience of the real addiction into into, say, instagram or another platform, to say, oh, I don't like this.
00:45:47.411 -->
00:45:49.396Oh, I recognize the bad behavior myself.
00:45:49.396 -->
00:45:52.201It was a family thing which they discovered together.
00:45:52.201 -->
00:45:55.987I wonder, because there's just my children are younger.
00:45:55.987 -->
00:46:10.523Obviously they're distant between the introduction of these technologies that our children are going to be like oh, get off your phone, come on, come and play music with me or come and look at this painting.
00:46:10.523 -->
00:46:21.846I don't know, maybe I'm too positive and there'll be something new getting there caused by them do you see some of that?
00:46:21.945 -->
00:46:23.628you know what old is new again?
00:46:23.628 -->
00:46:28.523Uh, you know, and it can give you hope you know that that kids will want something different.
00:46:28.523 -->
00:46:41.583Um, because they they'll grow to a point and appearing in a different way, and this growing teen mental health challenges and suicide rate.
00:46:41.583 -->
00:46:47.947All of that intersect with their work as well, and we know the role that social media plays in that.
00:46:47.947 -->
00:46:51.871So it'll be interesting, chris.
00:46:51.871 -->
00:46:53.273What's your experience with yours?
00:46:56.297 -->
00:46:57.059You have little.
00:46:57.059 -->
00:47:22.496Yeah, so he said just over two and a half um, but you know, for me, the the thing to it's that reminder to myself, because there's, I would say that my phone and it's, it's amazing, it's probably even in the last two, three years, um, I would say that I don't always live out my values in relation to my phone and I constantly have to catch myself and go what are you doing?
00:47:22.496 -->
00:47:23.760What are you doing?
00:47:23.760 -->
00:47:56.204And it's that, even that sort of that automatic, which I never used to have I'd always sort of put my phone away in my bag if I was with anybody but that automatic reach to maybe turn your phone over and look at it when you put it down, you don't even go through it, but just the act and just being so aware of how absurd, you know, all kids are but Orlando's, we're picking up on absolutely everything and you think, wow, just how mindful, just how intentional to be around those practices.
00:47:56.456 -->
00:48:05.322And same, as you know, the point that you brought up, john, is sort of putting it wherever in the, in the larder with potatoes, if it takes a physical act like that.
00:48:05.322 -->
00:48:21.434Um, and I think with all of this stuff, the more intentional that we can be, the more aware that we can become, and then the practices that you can put in place to put the relevant barriers, to build the relevant habits, are so, so important.
00:48:21.434 -->
00:48:30.364Cause, yeah, that's my experience as we're having this conversation, I'm thinking, wow, I just need to be more intentional, more aware and take action as a result of it.
00:48:30.364 -->
00:48:34.297Yeah, definitely.
00:48:35.057 -->
00:48:36.561I have a quick, quick, quick it.
00:48:36.561 -->
00:48:37.402Yeah, definitely I have a question.
00:48:37.402 -->
00:48:40.168Yeah, great morning I interrupted.
00:48:40.168 -->
00:48:40.768Did I interrupt you?
00:48:42.753 -->
00:48:42.934No.
00:48:43.454 -->
00:48:43.574Right.
00:48:43.574 -->
00:48:55.306So this is my question and it's it's uh, it's sort of circling back, but also being very, very, um, very clear about parenting as well.
00:48:55.306 -->
00:49:05.076So we get asked all the time by our client, normally as an exasperated sort of senior leader goes.
00:49:05.076 -->
00:49:08.126I just wish everybody would fail more.
00:49:08.126 -->
00:49:12.706I wish I'd be braver and make more mistakes and we can move on.
00:49:12.706 -->
00:49:20.181I wish I'd be braver and make more mistakes and we can move on.
00:49:20.362 -->
00:49:38.922And then this weekend I was going to say, before we started recording, my daughter had sports day at school and she was asked to do the cross country, the longer race, and it wasn't long, she's eight, it was a kilometer, if anything right and she and she's doing the second loop.
00:49:38.922 -->
00:49:57.728She's not a fast runner, she's inherited my, my ability to run and, uh, on the second loop her shoe fell off and she fell over in front of, you know, 300 people and she was mortified, especially because she's really hardworking, really diligent.
00:49:57.728 -->
00:50:03.188We'd gone out the weekend before and practiced the race together and learned about pacing and all that kind of stuff.
00:50:03.188 -->
00:50:16.585She was really mortified and because she worked so hard and because she's smart, she succeeds a lot and there was part of me which was really happy that she failed.
00:50:16.585 -->
00:50:22.126Obviously I wouldn't have supported her through that because I wouldn't have not heard.
00:50:25.436 -->
00:50:42.396And I think it's like really connected to what I see in business, where people say I want my people to fail, fail but don't create an environment which it where it's safe to fail, and then as a society and as parents, we only ever seem to support success.
00:50:42.396 -->
00:50:53.244We don't really support process or praise process or pray, you know, not hitting the mark with time or whatever he says.
00:50:53.244 -->
00:51:12.023When you're a corporate mother, olympian, how do you in any position of leadership, whether as a parent or as a business leader, like, make it okay to fail?
00:51:12.023 -->
00:51:15.985Failure is the only thing that you can ever guarantee it will happen.
00:51:15.985 -->
00:51:21.485So how can you make it hurt less?
00:51:21.485 -->
00:51:25.063How can you make it something which people are willing to do?
00:51:25.615 -->
00:51:28.217So that's a great question, johnny, and I think you know.
00:51:28.217 -->
00:51:34.606Speaking about the organizations, absolutely the, you know, fail forward, you forward, fail fast, keep moving.
00:51:34.606 -->
00:51:39.166That's going to be an innovative, high-performing organization.
00:51:39.166 -->
00:51:43.365With your daughter, two things come to mind.
00:51:43.365 -->
00:52:00.005One, absolutely, is to be those parents who let their kids fail and support them, Someone that's going to be sharing your stories of what you learned and you know that you know uh from I'll play during the see.
00:52:00.045 -->
00:52:07.867I I don't even use the word failure often, um, I call it a setback, I call it um I, I refrain it.
00:52:07.867 -->
00:52:11.561So that's why I kind of trip on the f word sometimes, um.
00:52:11.561 -->
00:52:13.728But you know, the the world judges.
00:52:13.728 -->
00:52:24.463But you know, with your little one I would say the first thing is, you know, embarrassment, humiliation, those are really dangerous um emotions to go through alone.
00:52:24.463 -->
00:52:35.509So I, you know, would just wrap arms around a child who's feeling not and and be tending to that and helping move through that emotion.
00:52:35.509 -->
00:52:42.746But then there's a framework and so much of it is kind of like Disney movies are made for kids but they're really for adults.
00:52:42.994 -->
00:52:51.505So a lot of the tools that I put into Thrive Training and other trainings for adults, a lot of those came from child psychology or kids.
00:52:51.505 -->
00:53:08.380So a tool that I would encourage you as a parent to keep in your back pocket comes from growth mindset, but it's called I-K-A-N, and so when you have a failure or setback like that, the K stands for knowledge.
00:53:08.380 -->
00:53:09.103What did I learn?
00:53:09.103 -->
00:53:11.820The A action.
00:53:11.820 -->
00:53:13.659What will I do different?
00:53:13.659 -->
00:53:15.402Now that I've had that experience?
00:53:15.402 -->
00:53:17.396And the N is network.
00:53:17.396 -->
00:53:22.625Who are my people that can help me feel better and do better.
00:53:22.625 -->
00:53:28.983And so, with your little one, you can say, okay, you know, setbacks are lessons.
00:53:28.983 -->
00:53:51.989They're here to teach us, they're here to you know, give us a way to do better and to grow, because we can't grow without those experiences.
00:53:51.989 -->
00:53:59.257But it through the rest of your life and always remember how horrible that felt and how embarrassed that was to you know, lose your shoe in front of 300 people.
00:53:59.257 -->
00:53:59.677Right?
00:53:59.677 -->
00:54:05.400So that's what you, you need to tend to that emotional piece and move through but say, okay, so what did you learn?
00:54:05.400 -->
00:54:10.697Okay, and given that you know what, what could you try next time?
00:54:10.697 -->
00:54:12.481You know, is there a different way where you can lace your shoes?
00:54:12.481 -->
00:54:14.306Is there a different way?
00:54:14.306 -->
00:54:14.635You know?
00:54:14.675 -->
00:54:28.023So, whatever that knowledge piece is, and then say, and the most important piece is the network, and I'm in your network, and mom's in your network, and you know, name a couple other trusted adults, more trusted adults you can have in your wife.
00:54:28.023 -->
00:54:31.528The more resilient they will be, the safer they will be.
00:54:31.528 -->
00:54:36.284So maybe it's grandma or auntie, so you know.
00:54:36.284 -->
00:54:38.056So who's in your network?
00:54:38.056 -->
00:54:38.518And?
00:54:38.697 -->
00:54:58.744And so if you, you know, are still feeling bad about this, you know who are you going to talk to or um, and, and so that just it's called I can, and then we usually pair that there's some great, just motivational kid videos, um, you know that that just help them hit more of a reset and say, okay, I will keep learning, I'll keep growing this.
00:54:58.744 -->
00:55:02.576This well, you know I bet I'm turning the page.
00:55:02.576 -->
00:55:06.003You know this isn't like a mistake that's going to define my life.
00:55:06.003 -->
00:55:11.664It's today's lesson and I'm going to learn from it and turn the page and move on.
00:55:11.664 -->
00:55:16.146So I think that that type of debriefing or breakdown is helpful in that tool.
00:55:16.146 -->
00:55:20.202Anytime we can kind of package things up and that's something a kid can understand.
00:55:22.164 -->
00:55:28.018That's my call and an adult.
00:55:28.018 -->
00:55:29.262You can use these with your execs.
00:55:29.663 -->
00:55:31.601Oh my God, I'm going to use it on myself.
00:55:31.601 -->
00:55:33.661I'm going to give it away to him, absolutely.
00:55:33.702 -->
00:55:34.967Absolutely, molly, to use it on myself.
00:55:34.967 -->
00:55:36.090I'm not going to give it away to him.
00:55:36.413 -->
00:55:54.244Absolutely, molly, thank you so much for your time, but we have run out of time, I'm afraid, but I thoroughly once again, thoroughly enjoyed every second of talking to you and I'm really, really grateful for your generosity.
00:55:54.244 -->
00:55:55.980So thank you very much.
00:55:58.572 -->
00:55:59.295Yeah, I second that.
00:55:59.295 -->
00:56:00.438Thank you so much, Molly.
00:56:02.001 -->
00:56:03.445Yeah, absolutely my pleasure.
00:56:03.445 -->
00:56:06.161Thank you, I really enjoyed our conversation.
