speaker-0: Hello and welcome to the Dora County Pulse Podcast. I'm Deborah Fitzgerald. I'm editor of the Peninsula Pulse. And today we're going to be talking about elections. We are heading to an August primary, August 11. ⁓ of course, we have the midterms, which will be happening later in November. ⁓ ⁓ we're going to be doing is taking a look ⁓ behind the scenes at something most voters. probably don't think about, and that is who actually runs our elections. If you think that it's the Secretary of State, you'd be right almost anywhere else in America, but not in Wisconsin. Wisconsin has one of the nation's most decentralized election systems. Instead of one statewide elected official overseeing elections, they're administered by a bipartisan state elections commission, which works alongside of a network of more than 1,800 municipal clerks and 72 county clerks. Here in Durra County, that means every city, every village, and every town clerk plays a role in conducting elections. While the county clerk coordinates many countywide responsibilities and canvasses results. So who better get into the podcast studio in Bailey's Harbor but Durr County's chief election clerk? And that is Durr County Clerk Jill Lau. Hi, Jill. You know, it was kind of interesting when I invited you on the podcast. It was right after ⁓ had ⁓
speaker-1: Good morning.
speaker-0: Vollin told people in the newsroom that they needed to watch an election webinar that ⁓ the Megan Wolf had done. And Megan Wolf is the administrator for the state elections commission. And so she gave a webinar on it, and I learned some things. And even though you and I speak on a fairly regular basis, I'm always emailing you questions. You're always very responsive. I realized I'd never had you on the podcast.
speaker-1: True. Yes. This is a first.
speaker-0: This and it's your first podcast ever. Ever. Although I have to say that you were very good at moving the microphone and screen right in front of your face as soon as you sat down, which is actually a bit of a challenge for most people. So I'm gonna say you're a natural. So we have an election coming up. We have a primary election, ⁓ August eleven, as I said, and on the ballot you were basically having a runoff between the Republican
speaker-1: Thank you. I appreciate that.
speaker-0: candidates for sheriff, even though everybody is on the ballot, it's really an election for to find out which ⁓ of the Republican candidates is going to be the Republican candidate for the November ballot. And then for the Democrats, you have ⁓ the clerk of circuit court. ⁓ And again, it's everybody on the ballot, but Really, it's a for those two to find out who is going to be elected. And then you have various ⁓ state positions that on, and there are a lot of primaries for them. So this ⁓ before we get what it is that you do, I wanted to just talk a little bit about this ⁓ partisan primary, is it's called, because I think it's confusing to a lot of people.
speaker-1: Correct. Yep.
speaker-0: We don't have to select a party in Wisconsin. We can, but we don't have to. And if we don't select a party and we both vote for a Republican and a Democrat, then our ballot doesn't mean anything.
speaker-1: That's correct, yes. No votes will count, correct?
speaker-0: If you do select a party in that little box at the top of the ballot, then whatever party you selected, even if you vote for a Republican and a Democrat, only the party that you selected in that box will be counted. Yeah.
speaker-1: Correct. You still have to vote for the individual candidates, but the safety net is picking that party. And then if you happen to cross over by accident, only the votes in that party do count for those candidates.
speaker-0: It seems to me that crossover is important. Especially in an election like this one. it's two Democrats that you're selecting or two Republicans ⁓ And has there ever been a movement to allow and ballots and do other states allow that?
speaker-1: ⁓ other states do. ⁓ we haven't had a movement in any given year that I can recall. I always think of this election as the nominating election. You're nominating for the party. That's the easiest way to remember the August election is that you're nominating that party's candidate when you go to vote.
speaker-0: Right, but no other. So, I mean, which is which is kind of a strange way to think about it. But we haven't had contested races for sheriff or for the clerk of circuit court in a very long time.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, a couple terms.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. At least. Right. Okay. Well, let's get to what it is that you do and the numerous town and village clerks in Wisconsin and why that's such a a decentralized why they call it decentralized. So what how does this system work in a nutshell?
speaker-1: Yeah, so the county end of things, we are responsible for election programming, ⁓ machines, internet results. ⁓ Whereas the municipality is responsible for actually administering the election. So that's where your clerks and your powers are they on election day. They are the ones that run the election. They tally at the end of the night, which ultimately is sent to the county. For races that are county or higher, then the county is responsible for canvassing those results. So for an August race, that would be everything on the ballot. ⁓ municipal wise they do have Board of Canvas as well, but that's for their municipal races. So nothing here coming up in the fall elections. ⁓ but the the general administration, the hard work is done at the municipal level.
speaker-0: The hard work. So you're you're not giving yourself a lot of credit. You're in elected you're an elected position as well. There are so the clerks, the county clerks ⁓ across Wisconsin are all elected. when you talk about responsible for the machines, the voting machines, talk a little about that. there are approved voting machines, correct? And and it's not it's not always ⁓ that the county oversees those, it?
speaker-1: Correct. So we we've been fortunate in Doer County since the late nineties to ⁓ have worked together well with our municipalities and have remained together as a unit and have always had one type of voting machine. So it is really the responsibility of the municipality ⁓ choose that voting machine. We've been fortunate with our municipalities that one voting machine, which means that the results are ⁓ you know, come in together, there's no hand entering. We have software that combines all of those and produces nice reports. benefit of county taking a lead and purchasing those machines and providing them to our municipalities.
speaker-0: Do those machines, the approved machines, change a lot?
speaker-1: They do not. There's a handful of companies, I believe four right now, ⁓ with approved voting machines in the state of Wisconsin.
speaker-0: How have they changed? You've been clerk for how many years?
speaker-1: County Clerk for twenty years come January. Okay.
speaker-0: And I think we were talking and you might be one of the longest serving so far.
speaker-1: Yeah, currently yes, in this yes, long as serving county clerks, I'm in the top five.
speaker-0: In the top five. So what was it? Do you remember what it was like back before the technology that you have now?
speaker-1: So I I don't. ⁓ you know, at one time there was punch cards, right? So, hanging chads and things like that. ⁓ that was before my time. I came in as a municipal clerk in two thousand and one and we were already as a county on an electronic voting machine. So, ⁓ I I n I don't I know no other. That's okay. That's what I know. And ⁓ the machines over the course of the years are they're relatively the same. They you know, there's not major changes. It's really Things coming out of the federal and state government, changes at that level that will dictate changes in machines. So software, ⁓ what r requirements that are going to need to be on that software to run those machines. ⁓ that's the biggest changes. The look of the machine changes a little bit, but ultimately it's just a reader and and they're a piece of plastic until they're have a card in them that programs them to tell them what to do.
speaker-0: Okay. So they don't you don't have to switch them out very often. You switch the software before you would switch the the physical machine.
speaker-1: We don't. Nope. ⁓ Yes. Okay. Yep. Until a b a big change comes where the software no longer is, you know, able to be upgraded and and then you're looking at going to a new machine.
speaker-0: Do you remember a time when there was a really big change in what the federal government or the state government or the state elections commission required for elections?
speaker-1: Yeah, so back in two thousand and six is really when the major changes came into play. ⁓ that was with the Help America Vote Act, which was implemented in two thousand and six. That is the time where machines then came into play. You didn't hand count anymore. you were required to have handicapped accessibility features on your machines or a machine that had that. ⁓ and then also the statewide voter registration system came into play then. So Chief election inspectors, training, that all was implemented in two thousand and six. And that's ⁓ growing sense. a lot of changes, but growing in the sense of continued education and training for clerks and poll workers all came about at that time.
speaker-0: When you're looking for if you're a town or a village in Dura County, hiring a municipal clerk is difficult enough. You're also clerk in the town of Nassawapi, and so you know the difficulties there. You had elected clerks at one point and the town decided to go to appointed clerk so you would have more control over the system. ⁓ it's hard to get clerks anyway. Does the election component or the election responsibility that a village or town clerk has does that make it more difficult?
speaker-1: It definitely plays into it. know, the number of times people are accused of things or the of the public ⁓ makes particular of the job a little more difficult. The continued training and requirements of it and the ever changing world we live in of elections ⁓ is tough. It's it's a lot to stay up on and that's just one small part of a clerk's job. Big in the sense of elections are very important, but in the overall picture of the clerk's job, just a small part of it. You know, there are also bookkeepers and minute takers and public face of the municipality a lot of times and emergency management and there's there's so many facets of the job. So a lot of it is difficult, but the election end of things I think just given the atmosphere we sometimes see makes it difficult.
speaker-0: And I think that atmosphere definitely has changed over the past few years. I don't I don't recall elections being called into question as they have over the past, I don't know, five or six years. And I remember specifically it might have been twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. You were doing a round table that Representative Joel Kitchens had pulled together to talk about the safety of elections. That's just not something that most ⁓ voters who have been voting for decades ⁓ were ever accustomed to really having to question is whether or not our elections are safe. And I I recall you talking about the safety. ⁓ What do you see as the biggest misconception people have about how elections are run in Wisconsin?
speaker-1: you hear a of votes can be changed, the machines can be tampered with, ⁓ they're hooked to the internet, you know, they can be intercepted. ⁓ and none of that is true. So part of being a decentralized state running elections is that you have a number of hands that go into that election day. ⁓ you have a number of hands that deal with the results of that election. ⁓ many sets of eyes on it. So to question the security of it, I think is the biggest thing that's come down. And that probably started in about twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah. You know, as we were leading up to the twenty twenty elections. Right. ⁓ and it's not died down. It's it's difficult for the clerks, ⁓ the poll workers, it's hard to find chief election inspectors because of it. It's a big responsibility. And then you have the public that questions everything that you've done or you've put into that election. And that's the tough part. And and that was not there before 2020. That is more recent activity that we've experienced. ⁓ what goes with that also is is threats and and the fear of safety. And I think that plays into Finding clerks and po workers and a and chief election inspectors as well. ⁓ we've had several tabletops over the last number of years as well as how to handle different situations. And when I first came in in 2001 as a municipal clerk, that just wasn't heard of. You know, none of none of those you didn't question, you knew your neighbors and your friends and your family were running elections and that trust was there and that's kind of eroded over the the years.
speaker-0: Hm. And do you think it's because neighbors don't know neighbors as well as they used to?
speaker-1: Yep, probably a good thought there. Yeah. Right. Right. Absolutely. Right. And as we are a retirement community, especially for us here, you know, we're we don't know our neighbors like we used to years ago. So you're it's questioned. And we have a lot of people that retire here. So coming from other states where, you know, things are ran differently and it leads to questions of why do we have so many hands in election?
speaker-0: Sure, right. And is that an advantage? describe the advantages of a decentralized system?
speaker-1: Yeah, I think your advantage is the simple fact that the accusing is that it's been tampered with. But the number of hands that are involved that election that you'd have to go through to tamper with something, there's a lot, right? So there's a there's a level, several levels. ⁓ And do I that it couldn't happen? You know, I'm not that naive. I think it could. ⁓ But you have to get through a lot of people to make that happen. It's not run at a state level where, the eyes aren't on it like it is here. So you have several levels of security that go into elections and and running it. So think there's an advantage to that, having that number of people because there's a number of eyes on it. There's a number of checks and balances, ⁓ more than if it was run a state level like in other states.
speaker-0: Let's just track that ballot, to show. So let's say we'll do it ⁓ on election day, perhaps. ⁓ So the voter walks voter votes, puts it the machine, ⁓ and then what happens? ⁓
speaker-1: Yep, so that machine is just a tabulator. It's it's scanning that ballot and reading it and counting the votes that were marked.
speaker-0: ⁓ then we should back up because you so you create the ballot, correct?
speaker-1: Right. So yeah, okay. So we can go way back to before we even have a piece of paper.
speaker-0: Okay, so before you have a piece of paper, y what do you do?
speaker-1: Do yeah. So it starts at the county level, kind of. I guess we can go way back. So let's just take a an August election. When did that start? So it started way back when really nomination papers were starting to circulate, even really before that, because you're preparing those. So April fifteenth, candidates were able to start circulating their papers. We are already at the county level preparing for that August election before those papers even hit the streets. So we're working with our programmer ⁓ and programming in the races. We know what races are gonna be on that ballot. We don't know the candidates, but we have everything else that we need to start that process and and get that going. From that programming is where that ballot's created. And of course it's not created until we have those papers filed. So that was June first this year. And then once we have that, we're picking ⁓ ballot order, meaning which way the candidates appear on that ballot. So first, second, third. ⁓ and then we're we're again working with the programmer. Eventually we get ⁓ I guess it's art, right? You're creating a ballot, it's art. ⁓ we get art
speaker-0: Programmer here or is the programmer at the state level?
speaker-1: The programmer actually is through our election company. ⁓ we program directly here in Door County with our election vendor and ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah, the election company So every ballot could look different in every county?
speaker-1: It does look a bit different because there are going to be different machines. Now the general layout is the same. Sure.
speaker-0: Called it an art. So I'm thinking, ⁓ do you put different creative flourishes on it?
speaker-1: I'm not kinda, but you know, so you know, yeah, so the layout is gonna be different depending on on the machines that you're using to stab to tabulate. not not a lot different. So there's a generic ⁓ approved template that elections commission will come out with and that is how you craft it. So prior to going to print with those ballots, ⁓ they do have to go to the elections commission. They do give them a ⁓ A review and a final approval to say yes, your layout meets our requirements. And yes, they do review all ballots from all counties, all municipalities.
speaker-0: All of the ballots across the state. So that could be eighteen hundred something, correct?
speaker-1: It could be, yep. Depending on ⁓ yes, how they're they're programming and how how many ballots they use in their particular county. So they're they're looking at basically one. Once you artwork one ballot, they're all gonna be the same for the rest of the county. so they're looking at that layout to make certain. So for instance, in the August primary here, you know, because it's the partisan primary, at the end of each party it'll say stop. You're at the end of the party and
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: The beginning of the next party, and you're now at the next party. Stop at the end of the party. Those are some things that have to be on that ballot. Helps to kind of define those different parties. That's the kind of stuff they're looking for. Proper language, that the print is acceptable and large enough, that you've got that stop at the end there. Once the elections commission signs off on that, they give you the approval. Then you can let your programmer know. And our artwork then is sent to a printer. So we don't print in house. We do print using a certified printer, which again is requirement ⁓ that we can't just go down to the local print shop and have ballots printed. Right. Like yes. So so we do have to use approved printers and then
speaker-0: Do they come in like a Brinks truck or something?
speaker-1: They they come delivered with requirements that you know, you can't drop ⁓ off at the government center on Friday afternoon 'cause we're not there and we don't want them in the halls. So there is some security tracking to that. Okay. So that we don't lose track, right? We need to know here's how many we ordered, this is what we've gotten. So those ballots then once printed are all shipped to the county and then we distribute them to the municipalities. ⁓ they are secured from start to finish. in the sense of they're coming from out of our printer directly to us by a lot of other avenues in there where signatures are required and certain delivery dates are required and they're checked on our end to make certain we've received what we've ordered. The municipal clerks then come in or designate somebody in writing to come in and pick those ballots up. They are signed for so that we know we delivered them. Of course, as we're doing all of this, we're also working with deadlines. There are state required deadlines to get those ballots into the hands of clerks. And most of that runs around absentee voting and and when those requirements ⁓ to send those out are. So once those clerks have those ballots, then they are required to track those and secure them as well. So to keep to keep them under lock and key, ⁓ only accessible by themselves or their designees. And then Eventually we'll get to election day where now it's handed off to poll workers who are designated to hand those ballots out. So you will always notice initials on the back of your ballot, two of them. And then that's how you know they were given by on election day by them, or if you voted absentee, you'd have the initials of an absentee clerk or deputy clerk that has issued that ballot. So then you're gonna vote it.
speaker-0: Okay. so if deliver, say, a hundred ⁓ ballots to the town of Harbor, then the town of Egg Harbor must account for every single one of those ballots. Correct. So that's really the first ⁓ security checkpoint because ⁓ you're them and you that it was one hundred ⁓ and they signed off that was one hundred. Okay. Let's so then once when those ballots are handed out, they are again initialed by a poll worker. So now it's gone through three different people. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm tracking it just like do you remember that I I'm just a bill on Capitol Hill?
speaker-1: Thank you.
speaker-0: So we we're just a ballot, a county ballot. And here is how we're going to tall it.
speaker-1: Yeah. Right.
speaker-0: So yes, if I were if I were Southern, I guess, right? Talent. ⁓ so the county clerk to the municipal clerk and now the poll worker who has signed off on it, you now have your ballot as the voter and you do your thing and you slip it into the machine, you take an I voted sticker, and you're on your way. Then what happens? Then
speaker-1: Okay. So we don't touch that ballot after it's gone through the machine. At the end of the night, once eight o'clock hits and all voters are through, that we're in line at eight o'clock, then that machine is what we call shutdown. And nothing else can go through it. It is physically closed. The polls are closed for the day. That it's been locked all day. Yep. Okay. So there is never a reason to touch the ballots during the day, unless occasionally.
speaker-0: Is it locked?
speaker-1: We might have a jam in a machine where we're opening it up or we're you know, we're need a need to do that.
speaker-0: If you have to open up a machine, is there a procedure for that? Does there have to be like five people watching and one people turning the key and close. Okay.
speaker-1: You know there is a procedure. So every everything that's out of the ordinary. So if you have on election day, all day long you have voters come in, state their name and address, take their ballot, vote it perfectly, it goes through the machine, the machine dings, it's counted, they walk out the door, that's a good day. But that doesn't always happen. So sometimes we get things that are out of the ordinary. So a ballot jam can happen. ⁓ ⁓ and then that's gonna require a lot of documenting. So they document throughout the day anything out of the ordinary. So a ballot jam is out of the ordinary. That's not something we should expect to happen every day, but that is all documented by the chief election inspector. If they have to open that machine for any reason, they're documenting that with two poll workers that will They're doing what they need to do to get that machine up and running again.
speaker-0: So the chief inspector, the chief elections inspector at every village in town, in the city, they are not the clerk. Correct. So they are somebody entirely different. Somebody that is recruited by the clerk. Yes. ⁓ Okay. Yes. ⁓ And so they are different from poll worker well. They must have a certain amount of experience or are they trained? ⁓
speaker-1: They are required to take ⁓ education of their two year term, appointed for a two year term, so are poll workers, but chief election inspectors are the actual body that's in charge of that election on that day. So yes, the clerk is, but the clerk is really in the background on election day to be there for questions, ⁓ run for supplies, I need extra ballots, I need something from the county. they're there for that reason. not to run the election on election day. So your chief inspector at the polls is actually in charge of running the election and your poll workers on that day. Okay. So again a number of hands involved, a number of checks and balances going into that.
speaker-0: About how many would you say our municipalities, how many people are at working at the polls? I know that the municipalities differ in size, but what would you say is pretty average?
speaker-1: about five to seven. Most post we'll have.
speaker-0: Five to seven. Most okay. All right. So I'm gonna back up again in our journey. I am a voter walking into a voting place and I am not registered to vote. What happens? Yep.
speaker-1: So Wisconsin has same day registration. So you can register at the polls on election day. ⁓ you do need a Wisconsin driver's license or ⁓ ID card if you have it, if it's been issued. If you absolutely don't have it, have never had one issued, you can use the last four digits of your social security number. And you are going to need to bring something with you for proof of residency. So generally a driver's license. ⁓ if not something like a bank statement, utility bill, phone bill. will suffice with your name and address on it. So you will go to a registration table and you assuming you have all of the proper documents, you're going to be registered and you can get in line and vote, get your ballot and and vote on election day.
speaker-0: Okay. So if I don't have a driver's license or an ID card, then I can just give you my last four social numbers and ⁓ an electric bill or a bank statement? Yep. Okay. And that is used in lieu of and so if there were, for instance, ⁓ we have a lot of J one workers in Durra County and they get social security numbers, so
speaker-1: In lieu of, correct.
speaker-0: They can be paid. So if they have an electric bill and they have their last four digits of a social security number, can they vote? Okay. Okay.
speaker-1: Depends. Can they answer the four questions? Are you at least 18 years of age? Are you a US citizen? Have you resided at this address for at least 28 consecutive days with no intent to leave? are you a non felon? You can check those four boxes honestly, and you can provide the rest of the documentation. You may be allowed to vote.
speaker-0: Okay. Okay. So is there anybody checking those things on election day? For instance, are you a resident of the United States?
speaker-1: Not at this point. It is ⁓ the voter's responsibility to answer those questions truthfully and charges can come up if after we found out that they weren't truthful.
speaker-0: Okay. So the ballots have traveled from the county to the municipal office and a poll worker has signed off on the ballot and I have dropped my ballot in and it is now the end of election day. ⁓ well, eight o'clock when the polls close. So what happens?
speaker-1: So we're closing down the machine. We're taking those ballots out of the ballot box that have been locked all
speaker-0: Day. Is there one person responsible for that?
speaker-1: ⁓ generally there's a couple. Getting ballots out of the ballot box is an acrobatic. It's a it's a whole move. It's ⁓ you almost have to crawl inside. So I mean it is it's tough. It's not gonna be you're not taking those out just like, ⁓ they're so they're removed and they are brought over to the poll workers that are there at the end of the night and then they are counted. So as you put your ballot through, if you've been to the polls, ⁓ you will see that there's a counter
speaker-0: Okay. Mm-hmm.
speaker-1: at each election. Yes. So he starts at zero. And it counts the number of ballots that have gone through. So those, that number, again we're going to get to some checks and balances here, sh has to equal the number of the number of the voter numbers that you issued. So you when you come in, state your name and address, you're getting a voter number. That voter number in those poll books must equal the number of ballots that went through that machine. That's a constant check throughout the day by those poll workers that they're staying on. And if they aren't on for some reason, human error, we do duplicate numbers duplicate numbers sometimes, ⁓ they're they're finding that. They're looking for a reason that they're off, they're they're regoing through their books, their checks and balances again, it's checks and balances is all day long before, after, during ⁓ an election.
speaker-0: And so that's everybody in the room. So if you wanted to conduct election fraud, then everybody in the room would kinda have to be on board with it.
speaker-1: That's where the number of hints that we have in elections come into play. Absolutely. You can kind of already start to see the level it would take, right, to to interfere with an election in Wisconsin. Right.
speaker-0: Right. And we haven't even gotten into the absentee ballots that were just started to be counted on the day of the election when the polls opened. Those are added in at the end of the day for to the total.
speaker-1: So those are processed throughout the day. Okay. As time allows for those poll workers to get in line and and act as though they're the voters, state their name and address, and process those ballots through the machine. ⁓ those have to be processed prior to closing that machine down. So we have had instances where there's the number of absentee ballots and the number of voters, you know, don't allow to have it done by eight o'clock. The polls that themselves close, meaning that if you were in line at eight o'clock, you can still vote. But you can't vote after eight o'clock if you weren't in line, even if they're still processing absentee ballots. So they process those until they are complete. Cause everything that comes out at the end of the night, that number is everything complete, meaning all absentee b ballots were processed and your voters were had gone through that day. That's one number.
speaker-0: Okay. Have you ever had a time when because at the end of the day, once they complete their entire process, did it used to be that they would physically bring those to you?
speaker-1: ⁓ years ago they brought their supplies in, but never in the sense of bringing the ballots to us unsecured. So the ballots, once they're out of that machine, they are physically hand counted. Again, we're kinda we're matching up numbers again. So here's the number of voter numbers I issued, ⁓ here's the number of ballots that went through the machine. So if we start with that hundred again.
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: And we issued seventy-five numbers. I need seventy-five ballots through that machine. And I need twenty-five left in my pile of unused ballots to account for my one hundred that I received initially several weeks prior. So that is that is what the next step of that is, ⁓ at on election night is to physically count those ballots to make certain all your numbers are still accurate.
speaker-0: Great. Okay.
speaker-1: Then they are secured. Once everything is done, tallied, paperwork is completed, again, lots of checks and balances. There's several places they're going to enter on paperwork, the number of voters, the number of ballots in the machine. If that is different, there's also explanations to ⁓ accommodate that. Re to provide a reason for the the difference. Again, sometimes you'll see a jam that is a You know, they know they had the jam. They're noting that if they get a no a number off, that's generally their reason. They had a ballot jam, it accidentally thought two ballots went through, it it really didn't, it just jammed itself, so it had to go back through. don't see that a lot. We do see at times ⁓ ballots than voter numbers. ⁓ sometimes somebody has made a mistake on their ballot while they're in the booth and whether they're embarrassed or frustrated or for other reasons decide that I'm not gonna go ask for another ballot, you do have three chances to vote a ballot. So you can spoil a ballot by bringing it back to the table where they issue ballots and asking for a new one. That's again all tracked. That's not an ordinary everyday thing. People don't wanna do that and again, don't know why, but you tend to find that maybe somebody put it in their purse or their pocket and you they walked out and now we're one less than the voter numbers.
speaker-0: So don't do that.
speaker-1: We prefer you don't do that.
speaker-0: You can spoil your ballot and you've heard it here first that it happens, so you wouldn't be the first one to do that. And that's why you get three chances.
speaker-1: Yes. Yes. Okay. So you can come back. Three chances. ⁓ so that's what they're doing at the end of the night. Again, checks and balances, making certain that what they've issued in voter numbers ⁓ accounts for the number of ballots that went through the machine. And then overall, we still have twenty five ballots left out of the hundred that, you know, we had. So the ⁓ all again tracked, signed off by those poll workers at the end of the night. There's several signatures that goes on that paperwork that tracks all of that as well.
speaker-0: are they physically brought to you?
speaker-1: They are, but they are in a a bag that is secured, signed off, secured with security seals, and then they come back to the county the following day. Yep. And they are stored depending on the election from anywhere from ninety days to twenty two months.
speaker-0: The following day. Okay. So if somebody were to witness a bunch of bags of ballots just dumped at the county administration building for you, could that be perceived by some people as somebody dumping off additional ballots? I mean, is that something that could conceivably happen? I read about how there are accusations of ballots just showing up at the back door of some clerk's office or facility wherever they are. And I'm just curious do you think that could happen? Where they would I mean, does it say ballots on the bag? ⁓
speaker-1: Well I mean when you're close enough you could see ballot.
speaker-0: I just think the day after the election a bunch of bags show up ⁓ the county administration building and people go into a panic on social media about a bunch of, you know, ballots being dumped off at the administration building. I don't know. ⁓ see conspiracy theory all over that. ⁓ just wondering if maybe little changes like that can ⁓ help the suspicious, quality that sometimes surrounds elections these days.
speaker-1: Yeah, you know, it takes one person's perception, right? Yep, and and social media. Right, right. Not our friends. There you go.
speaker-0: It
speaker-1: Yep. So I'm going to confidently say in Dor County that would not happen. ⁓ our clerks must maintain the security of those ballots. Even after they're in that bag and sealed, they're still responsible to secure that in their vault, in their safe, or wherever they may, you know, under lock and key put that and then transport again either the clerk themselves or their designee, which is only approved in writing. So if they're having somebody else deliver or pickup. we do require at the county level for them to send us an email in writing to state the person's name and their give their authorization to transport any election related materials.
speaker-0: The night of the election, which you are it's it's fairly quick in Dora County. The last election was very fast, I think. ⁓ the election the results were in before nine o'clock even I wanna say. ⁓ so they are transmitting electronically the night of the election for the un what do you call them? The un canvassed results or the unofficial
speaker-1: Unofficial.
speaker-0: Okay. And those are the results that are basically used to declare who has won. And then when you those ⁓ that terminology? Okay.
speaker-1: So we yes we canvass results. So once those ballots are secured on election night, they are not touched. The only reason to open a ballot bag would be for a recount. Nobody's hands go on those ballots once secured at the municipal level. So they are returned to the county in a secured bag and then stored in a secured room. ⁓ so nothing at all with the ballots. What we canvass are the results. So we are ⁓ at the county level looking at
speaker-0: Okay. So nobody's Okay.
speaker-1: poll books, so number of voters again, how many voter numbers did you issue? ⁓ we're looking at your tracking of any incidents that you may have had. We're looking at the number of ballots that went through the machine, the results tapes, write-in tally sheets. ⁓ That another set of eyes ⁓ from what came of the municipal poll workers who recorded all of that. So one more check to make certain that what you transmitted at the end of the night, what that machine printed out the totals in the poll books, that that's all balanced and that the results on official results reported on election night are true and correct.
speaker-0: In two decades, have you ever had a meltdown at one of the municipal sites where they're off by a number of ballots and they cannot explain it?
speaker-1: We have never been off by a number of ballots. have we been off? Yes, but not by a number. If they generally throughout the day they're already checking their numbers, so they're watching their voter numbers versus the the ballots through the machine, ⁓ so that they can address any issues that you know ⁓ might have happened. So they ⁓ they're making sure they're recording these things. So we have not in two decades, knock on wood, we have not ⁓ experienced anything that was so far out of the ordinary there there was no explanation for it. So it may be one or two ballots. Three is a lot for us. Three is a lot and you better have an explanation for those. Okay. beyond that, it hasn't happened. So we have not experienced that here in the indoor county.
speaker-0: I remember a couple of years ago there was a snowstorm on election night and you know I'm waiting, waiting, waiting, and you're waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. But some of the machines couldn't transmit. Correct. Is that what happened? Can you explain what was it the n twenty twenty four? It was April twenty twenty four, that's right.
speaker-1: was April. Yep. So back in in twenty twenty four we transmitted via old school landline. So phone line, that's how we transmit is phone by phone.
speaker-0: From all of the municipality.
speaker-1: Okay. Yep. So so all of our municipalities have had to have hard phone lines all the way up till more most recently. ⁓ so was the presidential preference election. ⁓ right. ⁓ That the that that election is programmed, it's a very, very large data package that must transmit over an old school phone line. ⁓ On clear, beautiful day, sometimes it's hit or miss. ⁓ So you add on a major snowstorm with power and lines down, and a big data package to transfer and nothing good came about. Nothing good. So yeah, so we that was a first. Boy, we had ⁓ we had to call in all resources to to get information down here. So when we can't transmit, the second ⁓ most reliable way to get results is to physically bring the cards to the county office and then we what we call direct load. So we we load right off of that card rather than take it through that phone line. ⁓ but now we had no plows on the roads. ⁓ it's you know ten o'clock at night, we don't have resources to get these things down. You're told to stay off the roads. So my God boy, we work together as a county just unbelievably clerk to clerk, ⁓ municipal to municipal board members helped us. it was absolutely amazing that we ended up getting all the results. ⁓ obviously the only one we couldn't get was Washington Island, which which then just leads us to our third way to actually record results is to hand enter. And so for the island that's what we did. They were able to at least ⁓ email us or ⁓ fax us, you know, we still still fax yet ⁓ s their result tapes and then we hand enter off of that.
speaker-0: Okay. And I've heard some stories from that night, you know, with with husbands and neighbors and just driving through really blinding conditions to try and get these cards down to the administration building or up from to the administration building. In both directions it was pretty bad. In Southern Door as well as Northern Door.
speaker-1: Yes, it was it was horrendous. I think if you ⁓ would ever talk to a couple of the clerks, I don't know that they've ever stood in the middle of Highway forty two or fifty seven with election results to, you know, hand off to the truck that could get through, which, you know, th I know the town of Egg Harbor would tell you this and and the village of Egg Harbor was the the pickup. So ⁓ you know, those were things and and some of these clerks have been clerks much longer than me and had never experienced anything Like we went through in April. I think the important note to that is we can't shut down elections. Nothing shuts down elections. Right. And results must be reported on the end of the county. It's within two hours ⁓ the last result is received. So we are under a timeline for that as well ⁓ get those results posted on our websites.
speaker-0: Within two hours of the last result received. Yep. Okay. And who tracks that?
speaker-1: Well I that's a state recommendation.
speaker-0: Okay. So ⁓ how interesting. They do. Right, right, for sure. What is the most stressful part of overseeing elections, do you think, ⁓ a municipal clerk? Because you are a municipal clerk as well.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I the mo election day is it's hard. It's ⁓ keeping workers, finding poll workers, ⁓ keeping them trained, ⁓ keeping yourself trained. So clerks are also required to take training as well. Again, it's on a two year term is what they ⁓ refer to it as. And they are required to take specific training approved by the elections commission. So I give you an example. Most recently we had our emergency management director, Jeb Salens. offer us a tabletop training for our clerks and what would we do on election day if this, this and this happened and like it did.
speaker-0: Like it did. Yes. But you had other scenarios as well. So in a tabletop exercise is basically walking through an emergency. Right? Okay. Yep.
speaker-1: And these were emergencies of your power goes out, what would you do? ⁓ some polling places generators, others don't. So ⁓ what would you A tornado is spotted, what would you do? the roof gets ripped off your building, ⁓ what would you do? Where's your ⁓ secondary location? Do you have a secondary polling location? Is it ready to go? What would you need if you couldn't take anything out of the building? If you opened an absentee envelope that had white substance.
speaker-0: Do wonderful.
speaker-1: Mm, what are you doing? you know, we've now closed down your polling place and you can remove nothing. So what are you doing?
speaker-0: Wow. That's excellent.
speaker-1: It was it was excellent training. Jeb offered it to us and we were very grateful for that. It was it was just eye-opening. ⁓ we had, like I said, it was a tabletop and got you thinking. So we came up with some things from that. one of the simple things is do we have what would we do if we had to go to our alternate polling location? ⁓ ⁓ where would we put the ballots? We can't take our machine. This was a scenario where we're not taking the ballot box, we're not taking the machine. What are we doing? We don't even have ballots. So, you know, what are we doing? What steps would we take? ⁓ and then of course, you know, and and what are you gonna say to the media when they're knocking at your door? So it it was it was a well rounded, ⁓ a well rounded tabletop exercise that ⁓ it it just it's invaluable to train. ⁓ I appreciate our municipal clerks because we have we have been fortunate to have all of our municipalities on the same page. We train together, we communicate, ⁓ neighbor to neighbor, a clerk will help a clerk. So I have been very fortunate in my time as the county clerk to to have that, to have that ⁓ camaraderie and and that trust that we're relying on each other and and helping each other and we come together and we train and we talk things through of you know, Dork County's unique. We are a peninsula. We don't get to have our three hundred and sixty degrees around us that can help us. it's us more more or less. So
speaker-0: And you're fortunate too, I think, that when we were ⁓ watching the webinar, part-time positions mostly for clerks in a lot of places and ⁓ in high turnover. And in Dora County we have nineteen nineteen municipalities ⁓ and a very ⁓ lots of long term village and town clerks. So they have the experience, there's not a lot of turnover, but apparently there is in a lot of other parts of the state. That's gotta help.
speaker-1: It it has, yes. Definitely that made a big difference. Now more recently, you know, we've experienced that turnover here in the county where we've seen some of our longtime clerks retire. Yes. But we've had wonderful workings with all of our new clerks. ⁓ it just we've just have a we have a great county with our municipalities that that wanna work together, that wanna help each other. So
speaker-0: Which is ⁓
speaker-1: I can appreciate that. I I didn't come from that probably prior to ⁓ when I was a municipal clerk. Yeah. so it's it is. It's ⁓ it's wonderful to work with our clerks and and we've been fortunate to, although a couple municipalities have stumbled a little bit finding a new clerk, but ⁓ overall, you know, we do have most of our ⁓ municipalities do have either ⁓ three quarters to full time. clerks. It Southern Door is still running on elected clerks and time. So but we've been fortunate to have the majority of our county as as appointed clerks and more full clerks.
speaker-0: Well, the leadership at the top that comes from you has got to have something to do with that cohesiveness and that unity. As you said, you don't remember having a lot of that when you were ⁓ municipal clerk prior to becoming county clerk. So so pat yourself a little bit. Think back.
speaker-1: Well for that I I that was one of my goals was to make certain we stayed on the same page and I I'm I'm confident that in the future we will as well. I just it's it's a great group to work with and and I appreciate them and hopefully they appreciate leadership from the county end of things
speaker-0: Well, you know, I appreciate you walking us through election process. the election process that impacts every one of the voters who will cast a ballot. And that took almost an hour, going on an hour now. ⁓ And so I know, I wanted to also talk a lot about what the ⁓ municipal clerks do the rest of the year because a lot of people probably say, What do you do when there isn't an election? I know that there is a lot of stuff that you have to do surrounding elections because you and I spoke very briefly about that, but can you run that down very fast?
speaker-1: Whoa, I can. Let's see. I there's not a month that goes by that they don't have something to do have something to do with elections. So especially in a year of four elections, ⁓ they are there's very very few breaks in between those elections. And that is because absentee voting, you know, they're they're already working on that forty five days before an election. So they're also, you know, if it's a municipal race, they're also having paperwork that's filed with them and candidate tracking and
speaker-0: Something to do with elections.
speaker-1: So so much more that goes into than what we touched on the elections. So elections don't just run on election day. They run for several months prior to that. And I don't think really anybody thinks about that. You show up and you can vote on election day and well it's election day and that's it. But overall an election probably takes three months to lead up to that one day of election day. So of stuff with elections. But again, in a year where there's not ⁓ four elections They still have payroll and they still have board meetings and committee meetings and
speaker-0: Voter registration.
speaker-1: Wisconsin Department of Revenue Filings and ⁓ assessments and assessor work and building permits and the list goes on and on.
speaker-0: Yeah, they do it they do a ton of non election related stuff, that's for sure. I never even think of the years when we have four elections.
speaker-1: Yes, there's not a lot of downtime. So No. You're you as a clerk, your world revolves around elections. So your vacations and ⁓ events that you want to go to revolve around when you're available. So it's a it's a commitment for sure. It's a a big commitment, especially in years of four elections.
speaker-0: Well, it sounds to me like one way listeners who are interested in elections can get involved is to become a poll worker. ⁓ how would they go about learning more about that?
speaker-1: that. Yeah, they can contact their municipal clerk and discuss that with them and and they're more than willing to tell you, you know, kind of time commitment that goes into it and and what's expected. ⁓ also on the Elections Commission website there's information for poll workers in there as well, so you could reference that. ⁓ or talk to somebody you know that that's been a poll worker and ⁓ A lot of times there's going there's municipalities looking for poll workers and other times they've got a a list, you know, a mile long and and sometimes not and sometimes yes. So ⁓ there lots of them are always looking to add to their list so that there's there's plenty of backup should some people, you know, not be able to work that election.
speaker-0: Okay. Well, Jill Lau, thank you so much for traveling up to Bailey's Harbor to give us a a a really nice long look at what happens on election day and especially surrounding the uniqueness of our decentralized system and all of the checks and balances, all of the people, all that that system puts that ballot through. I think I think a lot of people will probably have learned a lot today about Elections, thanks to you. Yes we could because as you this paper on my lap with a bunch of questions, how many times have you seen me look at it?
speaker-1: Yep, not a lot. I know we talked before and and then here we are. Yes, right. So that
speaker-0: Okay, that's how that goes. I come prepared and then we're just off on a conversation. but you know that because you are listening to the Dora County Pals podcast, ⁓ and I thank you for doing that. ⁓ Until next time.
speaker-1: Good morning.
speaker-0: Vollin told people in the newsroom that they needed to watch an election webinar that ⁓ the Megan Wolf had done. And Megan Wolf is the administrator for the state elections commission. And so she gave a webinar on it, and I learned some things. And even though you and I speak on a fairly regular basis, I'm always emailing you questions. You're always very responsive. I realized I'd never had you on the podcast.
speaker-1: True. Yes. This is a first.
speaker-0: This and it's your first podcast ever. Ever. Although I have to say that you were very good at moving the microphone and screen right in front of your face as soon as you sat down, which is actually a bit of a challenge for most people. So I'm gonna say you're a natural. So we have an election coming up. We have a primary election, ⁓ August eleven, as I said, and on the ballot you were basically having a runoff between the Republican
speaker-1: Thank you. I appreciate that.
speaker-0: candidates for sheriff, even though everybody is on the ballot, it's really an election for to find out which ⁓ of the Republican candidates is going to be the Republican candidate for the November ballot. And then for the Democrats, you have ⁓ the clerk of circuit court. ⁓ And again, it's everybody on the ballot, but Really, it's a for those two to find out who is going to be elected. And then you have various ⁓ state positions that on, and there are a lot of primaries for them. So this ⁓ before we get what it is that you do, I wanted to just talk a little bit about this ⁓ partisan primary, is it's called, because I think it's confusing to a lot of people.
speaker-1: Correct. Yep.
speaker-0: We don't have to select a party in Wisconsin. We can, but we don't have to. And if we don't select a party and we both vote for a Republican and a Democrat, then our ballot doesn't mean anything.
speaker-1: That's correct, yes. No votes will count, correct?
speaker-0: If you do select a party in that little box at the top of the ballot, then whatever party you selected, even if you vote for a Republican and a Democrat, only the party that you selected in that box will be counted. Yeah.
speaker-1: Correct. You still have to vote for the individual candidates, but the safety net is picking that party. And then if you happen to cross over by accident, only the votes in that party do count for those candidates.
speaker-0: It seems to me that crossover is important. Especially in an election like this one. it's two Democrats that you're selecting or two Republicans ⁓ And has there ever been a movement to allow and ballots and do other states allow that?
speaker-1: ⁓ other states do. ⁓ we haven't had a movement in any given year that I can recall. I always think of this election as the nominating election. You're nominating for the party. That's the easiest way to remember the August election is that you're nominating that party's candidate when you go to vote.
speaker-0: Right, but no other. So, I mean, which is which is kind of a strange way to think about it. But we haven't had contested races for sheriff or for the clerk of circuit court in a very long time.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, a couple terms.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. At least. Right. Okay. Well, let's get to what it is that you do and the numerous town and village clerks in Wisconsin and why that's such a a decentralized why they call it decentralized. So what how does this system work in a nutshell?
speaker-1: Yeah, so the county end of things, we are responsible for election programming, ⁓ machines, internet results. ⁓ Whereas the municipality is responsible for actually administering the election. So that's where your clerks and your powers are they on election day. They are the ones that run the election. They tally at the end of the night, which ultimately is sent to the county. For races that are county or higher, then the county is responsible for canvassing those results. So for an August race, that would be everything on the ballot. ⁓ municipal wise they do have Board of Canvas as well, but that's for their municipal races. So nothing here coming up in the fall elections. ⁓ but the the general administration, the hard work is done at the municipal level.
speaker-0: The hard work. So you're you're not giving yourself a lot of credit. You're in elected you're an elected position as well. There are so the clerks, the county clerks ⁓ across Wisconsin are all elected. when you talk about responsible for the machines, the voting machines, talk a little about that. there are approved voting machines, correct? And and it's not it's not always ⁓ that the county oversees those, it?
speaker-1: Correct. So we we've been fortunate in Doer County since the late nineties to ⁓ have worked together well with our municipalities and have remained together as a unit and have always had one type of voting machine. So it is really the responsibility of the municipality ⁓ choose that voting machine. We've been fortunate with our municipalities that one voting machine, which means that the results are ⁓ you know, come in together, there's no hand entering. We have software that combines all of those and produces nice reports. benefit of county taking a lead and purchasing those machines and providing them to our municipalities.
speaker-0: Do those machines, the approved machines, change a lot?
speaker-1: They do not. There's a handful of companies, I believe four right now, ⁓ with approved voting machines in the state of Wisconsin.
speaker-0: How have they changed? You've been clerk for how many years?
speaker-1: County Clerk for twenty years come January. Okay.
speaker-0: And I think we were talking and you might be one of the longest serving so far.
speaker-1: Yeah, currently yes, in this yes, long as serving county clerks, I'm in the top five.
speaker-0: In the top five. So what was it? Do you remember what it was like back before the technology that you have now?
speaker-1: So I I don't. ⁓ you know, at one time there was punch cards, right? So, hanging chads and things like that. ⁓ that was before my time. I came in as a municipal clerk in two thousand and one and we were already as a county on an electronic voting machine. So, ⁓ I I n I don't I know no other. That's okay. That's what I know. And ⁓ the machines over the course of the years are they're relatively the same. They you know, there's not major changes. It's really Things coming out of the federal and state government, changes at that level that will dictate changes in machines. So software, ⁓ what r requirements that are going to need to be on that software to run those machines. ⁓ that's the biggest changes. The look of the machine changes a little bit, but ultimately it's just a reader and and they're a piece of plastic until they're have a card in them that programs them to tell them what to do.
speaker-0: Okay. So they don't you don't have to switch them out very often. You switch the software before you would switch the the physical machine.
speaker-1: We don't. Nope. ⁓ Yes. Okay. Yep. Until a b a big change comes where the software no longer is, you know, able to be upgraded and and then you're looking at going to a new machine.
speaker-0: Do you remember a time when there was a really big change in what the federal government or the state government or the state elections commission required for elections?
speaker-1: Yeah, so back in two thousand and six is really when the major changes came into play. ⁓ that was with the Help America Vote Act, which was implemented in two thousand and six. That is the time where machines then came into play. You didn't hand count anymore. you were required to have handicapped accessibility features on your machines or a machine that had that. ⁓ and then also the statewide voter registration system came into play then. So Chief election inspectors, training, that all was implemented in two thousand and six. And that's ⁓ growing sense. a lot of changes, but growing in the sense of continued education and training for clerks and poll workers all came about at that time.
speaker-0: When you're looking for if you're a town or a village in Dura County, hiring a municipal clerk is difficult enough. You're also clerk in the town of Nassawapi, and so you know the difficulties there. You had elected clerks at one point and the town decided to go to appointed clerk so you would have more control over the system. ⁓ it's hard to get clerks anyway. Does the election component or the election responsibility that a village or town clerk has does that make it more difficult?
speaker-1: It definitely plays into it. know, the number of times people are accused of things or the of the public ⁓ makes particular of the job a little more difficult. The continued training and requirements of it and the ever changing world we live in of elections ⁓ is tough. It's it's a lot to stay up on and that's just one small part of a clerk's job. Big in the sense of elections are very important, but in the overall picture of the clerk's job, just a small part of it. You know, there are also bookkeepers and minute takers and public face of the municipality a lot of times and emergency management and there's there's so many facets of the job. So a lot of it is difficult, but the election end of things I think just given the atmosphere we sometimes see makes it difficult.
speaker-0: And I think that atmosphere definitely has changed over the past few years. I don't I don't recall elections being called into question as they have over the past, I don't know, five or six years. And I remember specifically it might have been twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. You were doing a round table that Representative Joel Kitchens had pulled together to talk about the safety of elections. That's just not something that most ⁓ voters who have been voting for decades ⁓ were ever accustomed to really having to question is whether or not our elections are safe. And I I recall you talking about the safety. ⁓ What do you see as the biggest misconception people have about how elections are run in Wisconsin?
speaker-1: you hear a of votes can be changed, the machines can be tampered with, ⁓ they're hooked to the internet, you know, they can be intercepted. ⁓ and none of that is true. So part of being a decentralized state running elections is that you have a number of hands that go into that election day. ⁓ you have a number of hands that deal with the results of that election. ⁓ many sets of eyes on it. So to question the security of it, I think is the biggest thing that's come down. And that probably started in about twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah. You know, as we were leading up to the twenty twenty elections. Right. ⁓ and it's not died down. It's it's difficult for the clerks, ⁓ the poll workers, it's hard to find chief election inspectors because of it. It's a big responsibility. And then you have the public that questions everything that you've done or you've put into that election. And that's the tough part. And and that was not there before 2020. That is more recent activity that we've experienced. ⁓ what goes with that also is is threats and and the fear of safety. And I think that plays into Finding clerks and po workers and a and chief election inspectors as well. ⁓ we've had several tabletops over the last number of years as well as how to handle different situations. And when I first came in in 2001 as a municipal clerk, that just wasn't heard of. You know, none of none of those you didn't question, you knew your neighbors and your friends and your family were running elections and that trust was there and that's kind of eroded over the the years.
speaker-0: Hm. And do you think it's because neighbors don't know neighbors as well as they used to?
speaker-1: Yep, probably a good thought there. Yeah. Right. Right. Absolutely. Right. And as we are a retirement community, especially for us here, you know, we're we don't know our neighbors like we used to years ago. So you're it's questioned. And we have a lot of people that retire here. So coming from other states where, you know, things are ran differently and it leads to questions of why do we have so many hands in election?
speaker-0: Sure, right. And is that an advantage? describe the advantages of a decentralized system?
speaker-1: Yeah, I think your advantage is the simple fact that the accusing is that it's been tampered with. But the number of hands that are involved that election that you'd have to go through to tamper with something, there's a lot, right? So there's a there's a level, several levels. ⁓ And do I that it couldn't happen? You know, I'm not that naive. I think it could. ⁓ But you have to get through a lot of people to make that happen. It's not run at a state level where, the eyes aren't on it like it is here. So you have several levels of security that go into elections and and running it. So think there's an advantage to that, having that number of people because there's a number of eyes on it. There's a number of checks and balances, ⁓ more than if it was run a state level like in other states.
speaker-0: Let's just track that ballot, to show. So let's say we'll do it ⁓ on election day, perhaps. ⁓ So the voter walks voter votes, puts it the machine, ⁓ and then what happens? ⁓
speaker-1: Yep, so that machine is just a tabulator. It's it's scanning that ballot and reading it and counting the votes that were marked.
speaker-0: ⁓ then we should back up because you so you create the ballot, correct?
speaker-1: Right. So yeah, okay. So we can go way back to before we even have a piece of paper.
speaker-0: Okay, so before you have a piece of paper, y what do you do?
speaker-1: Do yeah. So it starts at the county level, kind of. I guess we can go way back. So let's just take a an August election. When did that start? So it started way back when really nomination papers were starting to circulate, even really before that, because you're preparing those. So April fifteenth, candidates were able to start circulating their papers. We are already at the county level preparing for that August election before those papers even hit the streets. So we're working with our programmer ⁓ and programming in the races. We know what races are gonna be on that ballot. We don't know the candidates, but we have everything else that we need to start that process and and get that going. From that programming is where that ballot's created. And of course it's not created until we have those papers filed. So that was June first this year. And then once we have that, we're picking ⁓ ballot order, meaning which way the candidates appear on that ballot. So first, second, third. ⁓ and then we're we're again working with the programmer. Eventually we get ⁓ I guess it's art, right? You're creating a ballot, it's art. ⁓ we get art
speaker-0: Programmer here or is the programmer at the state level?
speaker-1: The programmer actually is through our election company. ⁓ we program directly here in Door County with our election vendor and ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah, the election company So every ballot could look different in every county?
speaker-1: It does look a bit different because there are going to be different machines. Now the general layout is the same. Sure.
speaker-0: Called it an art. So I'm thinking, ⁓ do you put different creative flourishes on it?
speaker-1: I'm not kinda, but you know, so you know, yeah, so the layout is gonna be different depending on on the machines that you're using to stab to tabulate. not not a lot different. So there's a generic ⁓ approved template that elections commission will come out with and that is how you craft it. So prior to going to print with those ballots, ⁓ they do have to go to the elections commission. They do give them a ⁓ A review and a final approval to say yes, your layout meets our requirements. And yes, they do review all ballots from all counties, all municipalities.
speaker-0: All of the ballots across the state. So that could be eighteen hundred something, correct?
speaker-1: It could be, yep. Depending on ⁓ yes, how they're they're programming and how how many ballots they use in their particular county. So they're they're looking at basically one. Once you artwork one ballot, they're all gonna be the same for the rest of the county. so they're looking at that layout to make certain. So for instance, in the August primary here, you know, because it's the partisan primary, at the end of each party it'll say stop. You're at the end of the party and
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: The beginning of the next party, and you're now at the next party. Stop at the end of the party. Those are some things that have to be on that ballot. Helps to kind of define those different parties. That's the kind of stuff they're looking for. Proper language, that the print is acceptable and large enough, that you've got that stop at the end there. Once the elections commission signs off on that, they give you the approval. Then you can let your programmer know. And our artwork then is sent to a printer. So we don't print in house. We do print using a certified printer, which again is requirement ⁓ that we can't just go down to the local print shop and have ballots printed. Right. Like yes. So so we do have to use approved printers and then
speaker-0: Do they come in like a Brinks truck or something?
speaker-1: They they come delivered with requirements that you know, you can't drop ⁓ off at the government center on Friday afternoon 'cause we're not there and we don't want them in the halls. So there is some security tracking to that. Okay. So that we don't lose track, right? We need to know here's how many we ordered, this is what we've gotten. So those ballots then once printed are all shipped to the county and then we distribute them to the municipalities. ⁓ they are secured from start to finish. in the sense of they're coming from out of our printer directly to us by a lot of other avenues in there where signatures are required and certain delivery dates are required and they're checked on our end to make certain we've received what we've ordered. The municipal clerks then come in or designate somebody in writing to come in and pick those ballots up. They are signed for so that we know we delivered them. Of course, as we're doing all of this, we're also working with deadlines. There are state required deadlines to get those ballots into the hands of clerks. And most of that runs around absentee voting and and when those requirements ⁓ to send those out are. So once those clerks have those ballots, then they are required to track those and secure them as well. So to keep to keep them under lock and key, ⁓ only accessible by themselves or their designees. And then Eventually we'll get to election day where now it's handed off to poll workers who are designated to hand those ballots out. So you will always notice initials on the back of your ballot, two of them. And then that's how you know they were given by on election day by them, or if you voted absentee, you'd have the initials of an absentee clerk or deputy clerk that has issued that ballot. So then you're gonna vote it.
speaker-0: Okay. so if deliver, say, a hundred ⁓ ballots to the town of Harbor, then the town of Egg Harbor must account for every single one of those ballots. Correct. So that's really the first ⁓ security checkpoint because ⁓ you're them and you that it was one hundred ⁓ and they signed off that was one hundred. Okay. Let's so then once when those ballots are handed out, they are again initialed by a poll worker. So now it's gone through three different people. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm tracking it just like do you remember that I I'm just a bill on Capitol Hill?
speaker-1: Thank you.
speaker-0: So we we're just a ballot, a county ballot. And here is how we're going to tall it.
speaker-1: Yeah. Right.
speaker-0: So yes, if I were if I were Southern, I guess, right? Talent. ⁓ so the county clerk to the municipal clerk and now the poll worker who has signed off on it, you now have your ballot as the voter and you do your thing and you slip it into the machine, you take an I voted sticker, and you're on your way. Then what happens? Then
speaker-1: Okay. So we don't touch that ballot after it's gone through the machine. At the end of the night, once eight o'clock hits and all voters are through, that we're in line at eight o'clock, then that machine is what we call shutdown. And nothing else can go through it. It is physically closed. The polls are closed for the day. That it's been locked all day. Yep. Okay. So there is never a reason to touch the ballots during the day, unless occasionally.
speaker-0: Is it locked?
speaker-1: We might have a jam in a machine where we're opening it up or we're you know, we're need a need to do that.
speaker-0: If you have to open up a machine, is there a procedure for that? Does there have to be like five people watching and one people turning the key and close. Okay.
speaker-1: You know there is a procedure. So every everything that's out of the ordinary. So if you have on election day, all day long you have voters come in, state their name and address, take their ballot, vote it perfectly, it goes through the machine, the machine dings, it's counted, they walk out the door, that's a good day. But that doesn't always happen. So sometimes we get things that are out of the ordinary. So a ballot jam can happen. ⁓ ⁓ and then that's gonna require a lot of documenting. So they document throughout the day anything out of the ordinary. So a ballot jam is out of the ordinary. That's not something we should expect to happen every day, but that is all documented by the chief election inspector. If they have to open that machine for any reason, they're documenting that with two poll workers that will They're doing what they need to do to get that machine up and running again.
speaker-0: So the chief inspector, the chief elections inspector at every village in town, in the city, they are not the clerk. Correct. So they are somebody entirely different. Somebody that is recruited by the clerk. Yes. ⁓ Okay. Yes. ⁓ And so they are different from poll worker well. They must have a certain amount of experience or are they trained? ⁓
speaker-1: They are required to take ⁓ education of their two year term, appointed for a two year term, so are poll workers, but chief election inspectors are the actual body that's in charge of that election on that day. So yes, the clerk is, but the clerk is really in the background on election day to be there for questions, ⁓ run for supplies, I need extra ballots, I need something from the county. they're there for that reason. not to run the election on election day. So your chief inspector at the polls is actually in charge of running the election and your poll workers on that day. Okay. So again a number of hands involved, a number of checks and balances going into that.
speaker-0: About how many would you say our municipalities, how many people are at working at the polls? I know that the municipalities differ in size, but what would you say is pretty average?
speaker-1: about five to seven. Most post we'll have.
speaker-0: Five to seven. Most okay. All right. So I'm gonna back up again in our journey. I am a voter walking into a voting place and I am not registered to vote. What happens? Yep.
speaker-1: So Wisconsin has same day registration. So you can register at the polls on election day. ⁓ you do need a Wisconsin driver's license or ⁓ ID card if you have it, if it's been issued. If you absolutely don't have it, have never had one issued, you can use the last four digits of your social security number. And you are going to need to bring something with you for proof of residency. So generally a driver's license. ⁓ if not something like a bank statement, utility bill, phone bill. will suffice with your name and address on it. So you will go to a registration table and you assuming you have all of the proper documents, you're going to be registered and you can get in line and vote, get your ballot and and vote on election day.
speaker-0: Okay. So if I don't have a driver's license or an ID card, then I can just give you my last four social numbers and ⁓ an electric bill or a bank statement? Yep. Okay. And that is used in lieu of and so if there were, for instance, ⁓ we have a lot of J one workers in Durra County and they get social security numbers, so
speaker-1: In lieu of, correct.
speaker-0: They can be paid. So if they have an electric bill and they have their last four digits of a social security number, can they vote? Okay. Okay.
speaker-1: Depends. Can they answer the four questions? Are you at least 18 years of age? Are you a US citizen? Have you resided at this address for at least 28 consecutive days with no intent to leave? are you a non felon? You can check those four boxes honestly, and you can provide the rest of the documentation. You may be allowed to vote.
speaker-0: Okay. Okay. So is there anybody checking those things on election day? For instance, are you a resident of the United States?
speaker-1: Not at this point. It is ⁓ the voter's responsibility to answer those questions truthfully and charges can come up if after we found out that they weren't truthful.
speaker-0: Okay. So the ballots have traveled from the county to the municipal office and a poll worker has signed off on the ballot and I have dropped my ballot in and it is now the end of election day. ⁓ well, eight o'clock when the polls close. So what happens?
speaker-1: So we're closing down the machine. We're taking those ballots out of the ballot box that have been locked all
speaker-0: Day. Is there one person responsible for that?
speaker-1: ⁓ generally there's a couple. Getting ballots out of the ballot box is an acrobatic. It's a it's a whole move. It's ⁓ you almost have to crawl inside. So I mean it is it's tough. It's not gonna be you're not taking those out just like, ⁓ they're so they're removed and they are brought over to the poll workers that are there at the end of the night and then they are counted. So as you put your ballot through, if you've been to the polls, ⁓ you will see that there's a counter
speaker-0: Okay. Mm-hmm.
speaker-1: at each election. Yes. So he starts at zero. And it counts the number of ballots that have gone through. So those, that number, again we're going to get to some checks and balances here, sh has to equal the number of the number of the voter numbers that you issued. So you when you come in, state your name and address, you're getting a voter number. That voter number in those poll books must equal the number of ballots that went through that machine. That's a constant check throughout the day by those poll workers that they're staying on. And if they aren't on for some reason, human error, we do duplicate numbers duplicate numbers sometimes, ⁓ they're they're finding that. They're looking for a reason that they're off, they're they're regoing through their books, their checks and balances again, it's checks and balances is all day long before, after, during ⁓ an election.
speaker-0: And so that's everybody in the room. So if you wanted to conduct election fraud, then everybody in the room would kinda have to be on board with it.
speaker-1: That's where the number of hints that we have in elections come into play. Absolutely. You can kind of already start to see the level it would take, right, to to interfere with an election in Wisconsin. Right.
speaker-0: Right. And we haven't even gotten into the absentee ballots that were just started to be counted on the day of the election when the polls opened. Those are added in at the end of the day for to the total.
speaker-1: So those are processed throughout the day. Okay. As time allows for those poll workers to get in line and and act as though they're the voters, state their name and address, and process those ballots through the machine. ⁓ those have to be processed prior to closing that machine down. So we have had instances where there's the number of absentee ballots and the number of voters, you know, don't allow to have it done by eight o'clock. The polls that themselves close, meaning that if you were in line at eight o'clock, you can still vote. But you can't vote after eight o'clock if you weren't in line, even if they're still processing absentee ballots. So they process those until they are complete. Cause everything that comes out at the end of the night, that number is everything complete, meaning all absentee b ballots were processed and your voters were had gone through that day. That's one number.
speaker-0: Okay. Have you ever had a time when because at the end of the day, once they complete their entire process, did it used to be that they would physically bring those to you?
speaker-1: ⁓ years ago they brought their supplies in, but never in the sense of bringing the ballots to us unsecured. So the ballots, once they're out of that machine, they are physically hand counted. Again, we're kinda we're matching up numbers again. So here's the number of voter numbers I issued, ⁓ here's the number of ballots that went through the machine. So if we start with that hundred again.
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: And we issued seventy-five numbers. I need seventy-five ballots through that machine. And I need twenty-five left in my pile of unused ballots to account for my one hundred that I received initially several weeks prior. So that is that is what the next step of that is, ⁓ at on election night is to physically count those ballots to make certain all your numbers are still accurate.
speaker-0: Great. Okay.
speaker-1: Then they are secured. Once everything is done, tallied, paperwork is completed, again, lots of checks and balances. There's several places they're going to enter on paperwork, the number of voters, the number of ballots in the machine. If that is different, there's also explanations to ⁓ accommodate that. Re to provide a reason for the the difference. Again, sometimes you'll see a jam that is a You know, they know they had the jam. They're noting that if they get a no a number off, that's generally their reason. They had a ballot jam, it accidentally thought two ballots went through, it it really didn't, it just jammed itself, so it had to go back through. don't see that a lot. We do see at times ⁓ ballots than voter numbers. ⁓ sometimes somebody has made a mistake on their ballot while they're in the booth and whether they're embarrassed or frustrated or for other reasons decide that I'm not gonna go ask for another ballot, you do have three chances to vote a ballot. So you can spoil a ballot by bringing it back to the table where they issue ballots and asking for a new one. That's again all tracked. That's not an ordinary everyday thing. People don't wanna do that and again, don't know why, but you tend to find that maybe somebody put it in their purse or their pocket and you they walked out and now we're one less than the voter numbers.
speaker-0: So don't do that.
speaker-1: We prefer you don't do that.
speaker-0: You can spoil your ballot and you've heard it here first that it happens, so you wouldn't be the first one to do that. And that's why you get three chances.
speaker-1: Yes. Yes. Okay. So you can come back. Three chances. ⁓ so that's what they're doing at the end of the night. Again, checks and balances, making certain that what they've issued in voter numbers ⁓ accounts for the number of ballots that went through the machine. And then overall, we still have twenty five ballots left out of the hundred that, you know, we had. So the ⁓ all again tracked, signed off by those poll workers at the end of the night. There's several signatures that goes on that paperwork that tracks all of that as well.
speaker-0: are they physically brought to you?
speaker-1: They are, but they are in a a bag that is secured, signed off, secured with security seals, and then they come back to the county the following day. Yep. And they are stored depending on the election from anywhere from ninety days to twenty two months.
speaker-0: The following day. Okay. So if somebody were to witness a bunch of bags of ballots just dumped at the county administration building for you, could that be perceived by some people as somebody dumping off additional ballots? I mean, is that something that could conceivably happen? I read about how there are accusations of ballots just showing up at the back door of some clerk's office or facility wherever they are. And I'm just curious do you think that could happen? Where they would I mean, does it say ballots on the bag? ⁓
speaker-1: Well I mean when you're close enough you could see ballot.
speaker-0: I just think the day after the election a bunch of bags show up ⁓ the county administration building and people go into a panic on social media about a bunch of, you know, ballots being dumped off at the administration building. I don't know. ⁓ see conspiracy theory all over that. ⁓ just wondering if maybe little changes like that can ⁓ help the suspicious, quality that sometimes surrounds elections these days.
speaker-1: Yeah, you know, it takes one person's perception, right? Yep, and and social media. Right, right. Not our friends. There you go.
speaker-0: It
speaker-1: Yep. So I'm going to confidently say in Dor County that would not happen. ⁓ our clerks must maintain the security of those ballots. Even after they're in that bag and sealed, they're still responsible to secure that in their vault, in their safe, or wherever they may, you know, under lock and key put that and then transport again either the clerk themselves or their designee, which is only approved in writing. So if they're having somebody else deliver or pickup. we do require at the county level for them to send us an email in writing to state the person's name and their give their authorization to transport any election related materials.
speaker-0: The night of the election, which you are it's it's fairly quick in Dora County. The last election was very fast, I think. ⁓ the election the results were in before nine o'clock even I wanna say. ⁓ so they are transmitting electronically the night of the election for the un what do you call them? The un canvassed results or the unofficial
speaker-1: Unofficial.
speaker-0: Okay. And those are the results that are basically used to declare who has won. And then when you those ⁓ that terminology? Okay.
speaker-1: So we yes we canvass results. So once those ballots are secured on election night, they are not touched. The only reason to open a ballot bag would be for a recount. Nobody's hands go on those ballots once secured at the municipal level. So they are returned to the county in a secured bag and then stored in a secured room. ⁓ so nothing at all with the ballots. What we canvass are the results. So we are ⁓ at the county level looking at
speaker-0: Okay. So nobody's Okay.
speaker-1: poll books, so number of voters again, how many voter numbers did you issue? ⁓ we're looking at your tracking of any incidents that you may have had. We're looking at the number of ballots that went through the machine, the results tapes, write-in tally sheets. ⁓ That another set of eyes ⁓ from what came of the municipal poll workers who recorded all of that. So one more check to make certain that what you transmitted at the end of the night, what that machine printed out the totals in the poll books, that that's all balanced and that the results on official results reported on election night are true and correct.
speaker-0: In two decades, have you ever had a meltdown at one of the municipal sites where they're off by a number of ballots and they cannot explain it?
speaker-1: We have never been off by a number of ballots. have we been off? Yes, but not by a number. If they generally throughout the day they're already checking their numbers, so they're watching their voter numbers versus the the ballots through the machine, ⁓ so that they can address any issues that you know ⁓ might have happened. So they ⁓ they're making sure they're recording these things. So we have not in two decades, knock on wood, we have not ⁓ experienced anything that was so far out of the ordinary there there was no explanation for it. So it may be one or two ballots. Three is a lot for us. Three is a lot and you better have an explanation for those. Okay. beyond that, it hasn't happened. So we have not experienced that here in the indoor county.
speaker-0: I remember a couple of years ago there was a snowstorm on election night and you know I'm waiting, waiting, waiting, and you're waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. But some of the machines couldn't transmit. Correct. Is that what happened? Can you explain what was it the n twenty twenty four? It was April twenty twenty four, that's right.
speaker-1: was April. Yep. So back in in twenty twenty four we transmitted via old school landline. So phone line, that's how we transmit is phone by phone.
speaker-0: From all of the municipality.
speaker-1: Okay. Yep. So so all of our municipalities have had to have hard phone lines all the way up till more most recently. ⁓ so was the presidential preference election. ⁓ right. ⁓ That the that that election is programmed, it's a very, very large data package that must transmit over an old school phone line. ⁓ On clear, beautiful day, sometimes it's hit or miss. ⁓ So you add on a major snowstorm with power and lines down, and a big data package to transfer and nothing good came about. Nothing good. So yeah, so we that was a first. Boy, we had ⁓ we had to call in all resources to to get information down here. So when we can't transmit, the second ⁓ most reliable way to get results is to physically bring the cards to the county office and then we what we call direct load. So we we load right off of that card rather than take it through that phone line. ⁓ but now we had no plows on the roads. ⁓ it's you know ten o'clock at night, we don't have resources to get these things down. You're told to stay off the roads. So my God boy, we work together as a county just unbelievably clerk to clerk, ⁓ municipal to municipal board members helped us. it was absolutely amazing that we ended up getting all the results. ⁓ obviously the only one we couldn't get was Washington Island, which which then just leads us to our third way to actually record results is to hand enter. And so for the island that's what we did. They were able to at least ⁓ email us or ⁓ fax us, you know, we still still fax yet ⁓ s their result tapes and then we hand enter off of that.
speaker-0: Okay. And I've heard some stories from that night, you know, with with husbands and neighbors and just driving through really blinding conditions to try and get these cards down to the administration building or up from to the administration building. In both directions it was pretty bad. In Southern Door as well as Northern Door.
speaker-1: Yes, it was it was horrendous. I think if you ⁓ would ever talk to a couple of the clerks, I don't know that they've ever stood in the middle of Highway forty two or fifty seven with election results to, you know, hand off to the truck that could get through, which, you know, th I know the town of Egg Harbor would tell you this and and the village of Egg Harbor was the the pickup. So ⁓ you know, those were things and and some of these clerks have been clerks much longer than me and had never experienced anything Like we went through in April. I think the important note to that is we can't shut down elections. Nothing shuts down elections. Right. And results must be reported on the end of the county. It's within two hours ⁓ the last result is received. So we are under a timeline for that as well ⁓ get those results posted on our websites.
speaker-0: Within two hours of the last result received. Yep. Okay. And who tracks that?
speaker-1: Well I that's a state recommendation.
speaker-0: Okay. So ⁓ how interesting. They do. Right, right, for sure. What is the most stressful part of overseeing elections, do you think, ⁓ a municipal clerk? Because you are a municipal clerk as well.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I the mo election day is it's hard. It's ⁓ keeping workers, finding poll workers, ⁓ keeping them trained, ⁓ keeping yourself trained. So clerks are also required to take training as well. Again, it's on a two year term is what they ⁓ refer to it as. And they are required to take specific training approved by the elections commission. So I give you an example. Most recently we had our emergency management director, Jeb Salens. offer us a tabletop training for our clerks and what would we do on election day if this, this and this happened and like it did.
speaker-0: Like it did. Yes. But you had other scenarios as well. So in a tabletop exercise is basically walking through an emergency. Right? Okay. Yep.
speaker-1: And these were emergencies of your power goes out, what would you do? ⁓ some polling places generators, others don't. So ⁓ what would you A tornado is spotted, what would you do? the roof gets ripped off your building, ⁓ what would you do? Where's your ⁓ secondary location? Do you have a secondary polling location? Is it ready to go? What would you need if you couldn't take anything out of the building? If you opened an absentee envelope that had white substance.
speaker-0: Do wonderful.
speaker-1: Mm, what are you doing? you know, we've now closed down your polling place and you can remove nothing. So what are you doing?
speaker-0: Wow. That's excellent.
speaker-1: It was it was excellent training. Jeb offered it to us and we were very grateful for that. It was it was just eye-opening. ⁓ we had, like I said, it was a tabletop and got you thinking. So we came up with some things from that. one of the simple things is do we have what would we do if we had to go to our alternate polling location? ⁓ ⁓ where would we put the ballots? We can't take our machine. This was a scenario where we're not taking the ballot box, we're not taking the machine. What are we doing? We don't even have ballots. So, you know, what are we doing? What steps would we take? ⁓ and then of course, you know, and and what are you gonna say to the media when they're knocking at your door? So it it was it was a well rounded, ⁓ a well rounded tabletop exercise that ⁓ it it just it's invaluable to train. ⁓ I appreciate our municipal clerks because we have we have been fortunate to have all of our municipalities on the same page. We train together, we communicate, ⁓ neighbor to neighbor, a clerk will help a clerk. So I have been very fortunate in my time as the county clerk to to have that, to have that ⁓ camaraderie and and that trust that we're relying on each other and and helping each other and we come together and we train and we talk things through of you know, Dork County's unique. We are a peninsula. We don't get to have our three hundred and sixty degrees around us that can help us. it's us more more or less. So
speaker-0: And you're fortunate too, I think, that when we were ⁓ watching the webinar, part-time positions mostly for clerks in a lot of places and ⁓ in high turnover. And in Dora County we have nineteen nineteen municipalities ⁓ and a very ⁓ lots of long term village and town clerks. So they have the experience, there's not a lot of turnover, but apparently there is in a lot of other parts of the state. That's gotta help.
speaker-1: It it has, yes. Definitely that made a big difference. Now more recently, you know, we've experienced that turnover here in the county where we've seen some of our longtime clerks retire. Yes. But we've had wonderful workings with all of our new clerks. ⁓ it just we've just have a we have a great county with our municipalities that that wanna work together, that wanna help each other. So
speaker-0: Which is ⁓
speaker-1: I can appreciate that. I I didn't come from that probably prior to ⁓ when I was a municipal clerk. Yeah. so it's it is. It's ⁓ it's wonderful to work with our clerks and and we've been fortunate to, although a couple municipalities have stumbled a little bit finding a new clerk, but ⁓ overall, you know, we do have most of our ⁓ municipalities do have either ⁓ three quarters to full time. clerks. It Southern Door is still running on elected clerks and time. So but we've been fortunate to have the majority of our county as as appointed clerks and more full clerks.
speaker-0: Well, the leadership at the top that comes from you has got to have something to do with that cohesiveness and that unity. As you said, you don't remember having a lot of that when you were ⁓ municipal clerk prior to becoming county clerk. So so pat yourself a little bit. Think back.
speaker-1: Well for that I I that was one of my goals was to make certain we stayed on the same page and I I'm I'm confident that in the future we will as well. I just it's it's a great group to work with and and I appreciate them and hopefully they appreciate leadership from the county end of things
speaker-0: Well, you know, I appreciate you walking us through election process. the election process that impacts every one of the voters who will cast a ballot. And that took almost an hour, going on an hour now. ⁓ And so I know, I wanted to also talk a lot about what the ⁓ municipal clerks do the rest of the year because a lot of people probably say, What do you do when there isn't an election? I know that there is a lot of stuff that you have to do surrounding elections because you and I spoke very briefly about that, but can you run that down very fast?
speaker-1: Whoa, I can. Let's see. I there's not a month that goes by that they don't have something to do have something to do with elections. So especially in a year of four elections, ⁓ they are there's very very few breaks in between those elections. And that is because absentee voting, you know, they're they're already working on that forty five days before an election. So they're also, you know, if it's a municipal race, they're also having paperwork that's filed with them and candidate tracking and
speaker-0: Something to do with elections.
speaker-1: So so much more that goes into than what we touched on the elections. So elections don't just run on election day. They run for several months prior to that. And I don't think really anybody thinks about that. You show up and you can vote on election day and well it's election day and that's it. But overall an election probably takes three months to lead up to that one day of election day. So of stuff with elections. But again, in a year where there's not ⁓ four elections They still have payroll and they still have board meetings and committee meetings and
speaker-0: Voter registration.
speaker-1: Wisconsin Department of Revenue Filings and ⁓ assessments and assessor work and building permits and the list goes on and on.
speaker-0: Yeah, they do it they do a ton of non election related stuff, that's for sure. I never even think of the years when we have four elections.
speaker-1: Yes, there's not a lot of downtime. So No. You're you as a clerk, your world revolves around elections. So your vacations and ⁓ events that you want to go to revolve around when you're available. So it's a it's a commitment for sure. It's a a big commitment, especially in years of four elections.
speaker-0: Well, it sounds to me like one way listeners who are interested in elections can get involved is to become a poll worker. ⁓ how would they go about learning more about that?
speaker-1: that. Yeah, they can contact their municipal clerk and discuss that with them and and they're more than willing to tell you, you know, kind of time commitment that goes into it and and what's expected. ⁓ also on the Elections Commission website there's information for poll workers in there as well, so you could reference that. ⁓ or talk to somebody you know that that's been a poll worker and ⁓ A lot of times there's going there's municipalities looking for poll workers and other times they've got a a list, you know, a mile long and and sometimes not and sometimes yes. So ⁓ there lots of them are always looking to add to their list so that there's there's plenty of backup should some people, you know, not be able to work that election.
speaker-0: Okay. Well, Jill Lau, thank you so much for traveling up to Bailey's Harbor to give us a a a really nice long look at what happens on election day and especially surrounding the uniqueness of our decentralized system and all of the checks and balances, all of the people, all that that system puts that ballot through. I think I think a lot of people will probably have learned a lot today about Elections, thanks to you. Yes we could because as you this paper on my lap with a bunch of questions, how many times have you seen me look at it?
speaker-1: Yep, not a lot. I know we talked before and and then here we are. Yes, right. So that
speaker-0: Okay, that's how that goes. I come prepared and then we're just off on a conversation. but you know that because you are listening to the Dora County Pals podcast, ⁓ and I thank you for doing that. ⁓ Until next time.
