00:00:00
Speaker 1: I was not satisfied with just one drink, and that, to me was my problem. I can't have just one glass of wine. And I almost like craved that second class because that second class was gonna kind of give you the foggy feeling that like my body needed to check out. I was like, Okay, then that's the problem Life Audio.
00:00:24
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel, and I am the Christian who became an alcoholic, not the other way around. Here we get radically vulnerable about an addiction, recovery, messy sanctification, and all the things we turn to instead of Jesus because we're all addicted to something. You'll hear raw, honest conversations from those who have struggled, those who help those who struggle, and why aiming for Jesus and getting sobriety thrown in is actually the best goal. So let's get right into this week's episode. One of the things that I find really interesting encouraging is it seems like there are plenty of people waking up to the fact that you don't have to look like a traditional addict, alcoholic whatever in order to change a relationship with a substance with anything. And our guest today is one of those people. She has a massive following on Instagram. She's a Christian woman who has for years been a successful podcaster and writer. Her name is Jeanette Tapley, and I noticed towards the end of last year that she was posting a recap of twenty twenty five and one of the things she mentioned was as a as a positive was realizing that her relationship with alcohol needed to change. Now, Jeanette does not call herself an alcoholic, but she has realized that the way that she was treating alcohol, the place that it occupied in her life, the jobs that she had given, it was all unhealthy, and so she set out on a mission to re examine it. She got curious, and if you are here for the first time or you have heard several episodes, curiosity is so key. And so Jeanette went on this journey and what she found at the end was uncomfortable. She found that what she was using alcohol for was was unhealthy, even though even though she was not this quote unquote drunk, right, And so she's going to tell us her story. She's also going to give a life update. If you follow her online, you kind of have realized that she is doing something different these days other than just the writing and the podcasting, and has kind of gotten away from that a little bit. So we're going to talk about her life update, which I think is always I love having those conversations. I think when people have posted life updates, and especially in the Christian world, and have said, hey, like I've realized, like I've realized some things and I'm going in a different direction, I'm always fascinated by them. And so this also leads to a good conversation on striving and what it looks like to try to be someone in the quote unquote Christian content sphere that doesn't just chase likes. And there are plenty of people that I know that do that. And that doesn't mean that everything they post is bad, right, It just means that I think there there's a healthy way to do it, in an unhealthy way to do it. Jesus still uses it, and I'm grateful for that because, as a reminder, Jesus only God only works through sinners, right, and the only one that he worked through that wasn't was Jesus. So so if you're expecting perfection. It's not gonna happen. Doesn't give us an excuse. But we're gonna talk to Jeanette about that. We're going to talk to her about her realizations. And I love I love the quote that that she uses, and I want you to ponder it now and as she gets into it, but she says, I didn't have a drinking problem, I had a problem with my drinking. Think about that. I didn't have a drinking problem. I had a problem with my drinking. I love that. I think it's another unique way to kind of say what I've been saying, which is we're all a do something to start with. We all have those things that we turn to that become idols. And it doesn't matter what it is, drinking, Netflix, food, porn, relationships, and so you may not have a relationship problem, but you may have a problem with your relationship. So with that said, I want to get into it with Jeanette, but real quickly appreciate your support. If you have enjoyed this podcast in the past, or if you've even just loved this introduction and this is your first time, please think about sharing one thing that you're about to hear with someone else like great, whatever, and please check out Veritasrecovery dot org. Veritas Recovery is the nonprofit I started to help people just like me and probably just like you. If you're listening to this who find themselves doing the things they don't want to do. You can go to veritasrecovery dot org find free resources. You can inquire about coaching as well. And I just you know, the Lord has told me in so many ways to give it away, and so as much as I can do that, I do, and so you'll find a lot of those ways at partester recovery dot org. All right, let's get into it with Jeannette Tapley. Jeanette, thank you so much for joining the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. We talked a little bit before, and you are have have historically been on my side of the mic, and now you're on the other side, and so we're just gonna flip the script. So thanks for coming.
00:06:32
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it is so fun. I actually was like looking for the record button because I am so used to like, all right, here we go, So thank you for having me. John. This is so fun. I actually love being interviewed. I just love talking. That's what it is. I just love chatting. So I'm really excited to be here.
00:06:49
Speaker 2: Well great, and I'm so honored that you decided to come on. You know, I said this a little bit in the intro, but you know, we tell all kinds of stories on this podcast related to alcohol or other you know, addictions, whether that's food or whatnot. And I'm not saying you were an addict, but we're going to get into that. But one of the things I continually preach is that we're not about and hopefully people don't see that. You have to have some desperate rock bottom moment to be like, you know what, this ain't working for me, or I need to change this relationship whatever that looks like. And so I'm excited to talk about that. But before we get into that part of your story, why don't you introduce yourself? And I'm curious, like I'm curious how you're going to introduce who you are and what you do because there's been some change recently.
00:07:44
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is take it away. This is the first time I get to do this. I'm gent happily, I'm a wife. I've been married for almost twenty two years. I think, yeah, we're almost at twenty two years. We've been together forever. So at that point after twenty I realized she's like, we've married twenty plus years. We have three kids. I have a freshman in college, I have a senior in high school, and I'm a freshman in high school. And I have been showing up on the internet for a very long time as a podcast host, podcast producer, and just social media. And I say influence, I would say I would say content creator. I would love to say influencer, but I don't know about that. So a social media content creator and in the last few months, a flight attendant for a major what do we say? Major US carrier? So now I am a flight senate. I'm adding that to my resume, and it's so much fun.
00:08:41
Speaker 2: And I want to I want to, hopefully if time allows, I want to get into a little bit about that decision, like maybe we can like we're gonna break new now, yeah, yeah, do it.
00:08:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:08:50
Speaker 2: I would just love to unpack that with you, because whenever someone makes a kind of like career change, there's a part of me, not a part of me, there's there's I respect it because I know that it can be so hard, especially when you're and I'm not saying your identity was wrapped up in your other job, but when you've done something for so long and it takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of thought and prayer. Although you kind of joked in your one reel like you're like probably needed a hug today, decided to, you know, apply for energy, which I thought, yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you can definitely get into it because it does it does tie into like how the last year changed, how how so much of what changed in the last year changed me in the last year. So well, definitely we can get into that.
00:09:42
Speaker 2: So I was first introduced to you because I'm not going to pretend that I'm your target audience, you know, kind of young middle aged moms. So I think you and I had a mutual friend Laura, and we were part of like an Instagram giveaway and it was like, hey, follow each other and you post stuff and then you kind of like share all the new followers and it was great. And that was like maybe a year or two ago, and so you came on my feed. But I'm gonna be honest, like we didn't really we never talked. We didn't know each other. So then at the end of twenty twenty five, you came on my feed with kind of like an end of year recap, and you posted let me see here seven six things that You're like, five things I'm leaving behind in twenty twenty five, six things I'm bringing into twenty twenty six, and then things I feel that and I thought it was so interesting. I read that post, and number two on things I'm leaving behind in twenty twenty five said this, I'm gonna read it mindless coping. I got real honest about ALCOHOLI this year, why I reached for it, how it impacted my rest, and what it revealed about my rhythms. And I think for me, I read that and I was like, dang, that's good, right, And I wish I wish I would have done that, you know, years ago, because I know what it ended up becoming. And I'm not saying that everyone in your position ends up becoming an alcoholic like me, but man, I thought that was so good, so brave, so courageous, and so my question that I want to just open it up to is you say you got real about your relationship with alcohol, And I would say you know what did that look like? What did you learn? Why were you reaching for it? What did it reveal? Like you said in the post, I'm curious.
00:11:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, man. Uh. Even hearing you like read that post back, I'm like, oh yeah, like and that just to like peek behind my creative brain is I had that idea for a post while I was working out, Like that's sometimes it's like when I have like I'm like ooh, Like I will be in like mid workout and like running around my phone like did you write this down? And so even hearing you a reread, I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember, I remember the genesis of that post. And so so what happened was last year I about this time, I was thirty nine and no I was thirty eight, and I was entering my thirty ninth birthday, like getting ready for my third ninth birthday, and I thought, I want to I want to spend this year making making like the entrance into this next decade really really intentional. And so that meant looking at a lot of my rhythms and habits and I got an hour ring and it just it it started opening my eyes to so many things. And so I guess to like when I look back at that line that you read, like, I got real about like what what drinking was doing to me and how I was reaching for it or even and we joke a lot in my friend group like I don't need a drink, but I want to drink, like because we're really careful with that line, like I don't need to drink, but I would love to drink or love a drink. And so it was kind of that mindset that really started kind of taking hold. And call it conviction, call it awareness, call it a health push or whatever, but it was like, oh, I really need to sit down and start looking at this. So that started in March and then and then it wasn't until June that I was like, Okay, you said you're gonna enter this next You're gonna really work on yourself this next year. What have you been doing. You haven't been doing much. And so in June I did. I had a sober month, like I didn't drink it all for June, and then I started hitting the gym a lot more. I've always gone to the gym, like I know that the gym is good for my body. I know that it's good for my mental health. I like, my best friends are at the gym. They own the gym, so like, go into the gym is easy for me. But it was like, Okay, I'm actually gonna like I'm actually gonna like push myself. I'm gonna be intentional. And I think that that's what June started for me, was this month of intention. I wasn't drinking, I was working at more, I was seeing I was seeing the data. That's that's really what hit me was. I was seeing the data on my worring. I was resting better, I was sleeping better, I was recovering faster. And I was like, oh, people aren't wrong. Alcohol is poison, like shocking, you know, like who knew? Who knew that science was real in this? And so that's where it kind of started. And then it then after a sober month, you're allowed, you know, quote unquote allowed to drink again, and it's like, okay, how how am I going to do this? And I think throughout the throughout the next six months, I was said the line a lot. I don't have a drinking problem. I have a problem with my drinking. And so I just knew that the way that I was reaching for alcohol in a stressful moment. We we We've said for years that we've had a really hard couple of years. But my we lost my father a lot of it's just it's just constant. But we lost my father a lot of cancer a couple of years ago. Having a daughter that has some unspecified mood disorders has been really hard on our family. Uh. We we have back to back seniors in high school. I don't recommend I don't recommend that that's hard to launch two kids back to back. It's awful and it's but it's also so great. Like I say that it's awful, but it's like I love it so much. So it was just it was it was time to kind of take stock and and kind of peel the layers back and be like, Okay, why are you reaching for this? And if you could reach for something else, what would you reach for? And so I started reaching for like chocolate magnesium at night, and just it was like, Okay, if I said I'm gonna if I said I'm going to do this and I'm gonna do it, well, then I then I actually have to do it.
00:15:51
Speaker 2: By the way, like that line was so good, I like I was writing it down. I was literally and I've gone back to like pen and paper, so I wasn't checking my phone if you're watching its daily, I just like I was like, I wanna, I want to remember that and so okay, So if if that was kind of the line that you said over the next six months, then what did that look like? I mean, you said you were reaching for my music. So is it like you're like, okay, give it up for a month and now I don't drink at all? What does that look like for you?
00:16:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really came down to, okay, if I'm not drinking, like, I still drink, like I love I love a glass of wine, I love a cocktail. But it revealed in me that I was I was not satisfied with just one drink, and that to me was my problem. I was like, oh, if I can't have just one glass of wine and I need I like I almost like craved that second class because that second class was gonna kind of give you the foggy feeling that like my body needed to check out. I was like, Okay, then then that's the problem. So then I had to like teach myself, like I limited myself, like if you drink you have one, and it was like it just was that kind of like mentality. And so now now I can't And now hear me when I say there's still the battle of like well liked, and it's like no, no, no, Like I've just trained myself now to be like one is one isn't like one is one is totally fine?
00:17:19
Speaker 2: How right? Like how yeah? Because there's people listening to this who are like, I want that. I mean, yeah, I want to be able to train like I want just that one. And I think for me, you know, my wife and I for a while it was like it was like just two, right, And I know it's not too so I was never able to have that, but I also know there are people who can't, right yeah. And so I'm just curious, like, what did it look like for you to train yourself? Was it spiritual? Was it physical? Was it a combination? Was it you're reminding yourself of X, Y and Z. I'm just curious.
00:17:57
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this, Yeah, I think it would probably. And this is the other side of it where I want to be like really mindful and say, like I do have alcoholism in my family, but I don't feel like I struggle with that part of it, and so I could be like I just tell myself no, and people are like, cool, that doesn't work, you know. So I want to be really, really mindful to say, like I understand that this isn't like it's not this easy for other people. But it really was a disciplined aspect. It was accountability. I tell my husband like, I'm only gonna have one and I'd be like, like that's where it stops, and he had to hold me accountable fat but he also works sights. And then that was the other thing is he's he's away a lot on nights, and I had to tell myself that I wasn't and I hate to say it was allowed, but it almost starts with that, like that base level of like allowance. It was like I'm not allowed to drink if Jesse's not home because then it's just me and the kids, and my teenage kids are gonna be like, mom, you said you only wanted one drink tonight. You know, like they're not gonna like parent me. So I had to go through Like it was a lot of discipline. I think I think what it comes down to is like I had to focus on the discipline part of it, so that I could kind of like create those habits. You know, nowadays we look at like streaks kids are kids are obsessed with their streaks for whatever, and so it had to be a streak. I had to be a streak of like the last time you only had one and that was really good, Like you did a really good job, or the last time Jesse was on nights you didn't drink alone and that was really good. Or you know, like like you almost have to like build up that muscle memory so that so that the next time you are in a situation where you're like, well, two glasses, wouldn't it be terrible? Now. There were times where I would be out to dinner and one margarita would be great, and then we're like laying you know, like I almost feel like that like long dinner time, and it would be like I'm gonna have another. Like It's like there was also the allowance of like I'm not going to be so strict and rigid that I'm not gonna enjoy my time with my or it almost comes down to, and this is where I think a lot of people really can shrugg where it's like, well, it's fun. Is this it's a lot it's okay, And it's like does it feel okay in your heart today? Like that's where that's where like the conviction comes in, where it's like it's almost like that silent moment of like, okay, God, it's like if I have the second drink? Am I being disobedient to you? Am I following the discipline that we have set up? Like is this okay? Like like that quick combo with God where it's like, Hey, I think I'm gonna do this or are you good with that? And if it's like a if it's like you said one drink, it's like okay, cool, Like I'm not gonna do it like I'll have I'll have a coke, I'll have all that doc T Prepper or something, you know, like switch it up a little bit. But it was it was a lot of like it was a lot of talking to myself and talking to the Lord and just kind of obeying that discipline that you set forth.
00:20:44
Speaker 2: What do you think you know, you talked a little bit about that conviction. What do you think that conviction was for you? Like? Was it was it mostly like Hey, I'm using this to cope and that's you know, I need to be careful there. What do you feel like was the greatest conviction for you personally?
00:20:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was the coping checking out. It was. It's the wildest thing that alcohol is the one thing that everyone's okay with you kind of indulging in without without being like hey are you good? And so, like I said, so many emotional things and heavy things were happening that Like if I were to have two to three glasses of wine and people who know me know what's going on, like yeah, yeah, you deserve that. Whereas like if I was any sort of other like it's struggling in any other way. If I if I was eating like seven donuts with my friends, they were gonna be like, yeah, that's okay. They'd be like, dude, what are you doing? And so I think it was that conviction of like why are you checking out? Why are you turning to this and stead up to the lord one because sometimes it's easier to check out than turn to the lord like I would I would much rather not be convicted in this moment. Then yes, and it hits. It's a quick hit, and so so that's where that's where it was the conviction of like why are you turning to this over over the Lord? And some of it was like because I know that this is gonna this is gonna affect me immediately, and the Lord is gonna be like be still in wait, I am fighting for you, and I'm like, cool, I don't want that, Like I don't want to be still.
00:22:16
Speaker 2: I don't want that.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: And there was a there was a big season where I like I was running from the Lord, not in a sense of like my faith was weak, like that's that's what I'll say. I was. I was, and I and I think that that shows it shows that my faith was weak if I was turning here so often. And that was such a such a problem that I wasn't really ready to admit to him or to myself to be like, hey, I actually like don't trust you right now. And so as I was kind of reevaluating and coming and coming back, but it was also this like, Okay, I know that you're gonna fight for me. I know that you care for my family, I know that you do all this. So the surrender was laying down alcohol and trusting him him to like actually fight for me.
00:23:03
Speaker 2: What brought you to that place. I mean, I know you talked about I know you talked about you've seeing the health benefits and maybe that's it, right, But but what brought you to the place of even seeing kind of the you know, I talk a lot about root versus fruit, right, so the fruit was, Hey, I'm doing this, I'm coping. What made you really kind of look and see?
00:23:21
Speaker 1: Man?
00:23:21
Speaker 2: This comes down to you A trust issue? Really in my.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: Home, yeah, it's really it centers around my kids. My oldest has struggled with his mental health here and there. In this last fall, he had a really hard moment and I just remember sitting next to him on the floor while he was sleeping and just having that like talk with the Lord and being like, man, I said, I've trusted you with these kids. And he's the biggest and he's the one that doesn't like live at home. He's in college, and and if I say I trust you, then I actually have to trust to you. And if like, if you can it. It was like, if you do this, then I will this. And it was like, if you can, like, if you can make him okay today, then I'll get back in the word I will, I will, I will do everything I know to do because I can trust you if today is okay? Mmm.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: So when you kind of got back to that that place, yeah, you know you've been on this side, right, you know, what do you feel like? Was it those hard things? You know? I talked about it just being a slow fade, right, and my slow fade then looked like more and more coping. Yeah, but what did that? What did that look like for you? Was it more like, hey, you know, all these things happened in succession, and so I just got busy, But like, what what did what did the fade? If there was a fade, what did that look like for you? Just spiritually? Like you know you said, I just wasn't in a good place with God.
00:24:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it started with some hard kids stuff and then my father loves cancer, and then more hard kids stuff, and then you know, just like life kind of snowballed. And when you when you cope a little bit, that coping doesn't like it's not enough anymore, Like you almost have to cope more like and so then you like drinking is no longer like drinking one glass of wine is never is not enough, Like, oh shoot, you drink a whole bottle of wine. And then it's like, well, on top of that, with your screen time limits at like or do you have limits? And so you just like your life, your life becomes a cope like everything that you're doing is coping or or trying to cope with everything that you're not dealing with. And so I think it was just a slow fade. It was it was man, life is hard, and like I said, we joke that, like, man, life has been harsh for the last couple of years, for six years, like and at that point, I think it's like, I think that's just life. Girl, Like, no, don't just help me that. I think that might just be live, Like I wish there was a better way. So I think that it's it was a little bit of that. But I think that slow fade is really what it is, because because like I said, all of a sudden, one class of wine is to end up it's two and then you're scrolling until midnight, or then you're reading things that you don't that you know you don't like to, or you're watching things that you know you don't like to. You know, like like all of your convictions kind of go out the window. When when you're quote unquote I'm just coping. I'm just dealing. I'm just this And it's like once, once I kind of like resurrendered, it was like, ooh, there's a lot going on here that like you have to clean house like I had to. I had to really check my phone. I really I had to. I had to unfollow a lot because I was like the stuff that I was consuming was actually not doing my heart and my mind as well. And yeah, you just have to, like I said, I think it's just like like room by room, clean up the house.
00:26:50
Speaker 2: You know, you said you said something there that I've been doing, but I've been struggling with doing and that is unfollowing. And what I have been doing is not necessarily unfollowing, like you know, oh I was you know, this was a quote unquote bad account or whatnot. But even just other people Christians who I'm like, it appears to me like you're striving, right, You're constantly just trying to manufacture. You're constantly doing this, that and the other thing. And maybe some of it is good, right, but man, I look at it and it just does something to me, and the something to me may be my fault, right, It may be like a something inside of me that maybe they're not striving, like maybe I'm unfairly judging them, And so I've struggled. I'm like, so do I unfollow them or not? Because if I unfollow them, then is that really just am I admitting like it's a problem with me and it's not their fault. And I like go back and forth, and finally I'm just like, well, maybe I am the weaker vessel, and then I just need to right. And so I'm curious if you had any sort of struggle like that and and if you felt like a tension of man, I'm gonna unfollow some of this stuff and and maybe it's not bad. Maybe it is bad, but it's a meat problem. I don't know. I'm just curious if you had any similar thoughts or feelings.
00:28:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that I definitely see that where it's like, man, this this person is and for me it's like this person is doing so well and I'm not to that caliber or I'm not or I'm not doing that or I oh, shoot, I haven't tried that tactic yet. Maybe I should try that, right, and it causes me to strive. Yeah, And so I'm like yeah, and so I had to unfollow a lot of like the social media marketing stuff like people stuff like that where it was like thirty reels for thirty days and grow your platform, and it was like, oh, I I can't do that. I can't do that. And so there was a lot of that I haven't followed. I mean, then there's some like I've been I've been in the Christian media space for for a very long time, and there was some people that was like I just had them follow and it was there was a little bit of like heart hurt for me kind of like tiptoeing away from it a little bit like these people don't actually know my name and that's okay, like they don't need to know my name, but like I have been in this space for a while and I'm just gonna like I'm just gonna I'm just gonna remove myself from this. And that was maybe a little bit of like I'm gonna remove myself from it, like maybe some days was a little bit like Poudy, and then some days it was like I actually don't think I'm supposed to be right here anymore. Yeah, and that and that being okay, But then also so I think it's like this triangle of like there's probably a little bit of that, a little bit of like hurt feelings, and then a little bit of like like it's fine, like an unfollowed like it's not actually gonna hurt them, and it's actually probably gonna be okay for me. Like yeah, like it's it's you know, it's it's that like reality of like I can always refollow later.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, you hinted at, you know, kind of walking away from the space, and I want to get there in a second. But my I want to ask you this, what was the reaction to your I mean, you have the posts that you did at the end of the year talking about stepping away from from alcohol or treating it differently. Yeah, what was the reaction first among your friends or even not your friends, maybe just people who were in your circle, Like, did anyone take notice where they like huh, I'm just curious what the reaction was.
00:30:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for my sober June, I only told a couple of my my close friends because summertime in Texas is yes, the time to drink, like it really is.
00:30:44
Speaker 2: You go to the lake.
00:30:46
Speaker 1: Yes, there's nothing I mean, there's a lot better than this, and so I want to be really careful for words, but nothing, nothing is more than a nice margarita, buy the pool like it just sometimes that's just what hits. And so and so we had had a couple of like birthday parties back to back, and after one birthday party, I was like, this is this is the day, Like I stopped drinking for the month, and then we had more birthday parties. Well, I was just really intentional that I would always have like an Alani or like a Seltzer water or something something that like I could pour into a fun cup and have a fun cup, because I feel like if you have a fun cup in your hands, nobody's asking me questions, and if everybody's drinking around you, nobody's noticing that you're not getting to that level, you know what I mean. So that first month, I like really was really quiet about it. And then I just believe that I have really holy friends and friends who are really intentional one with relationship with me and two relationship their own relationship with God. And so I'd be like, yeah, I'm I'm I've said the same thing. I have said the same thing. So then I said to you like I don't have a drinking problem, but I have a problem with how much I'm drinking or have problem with my drinking. And they'd be like, Okay, well what do you even'ta do about it? And I was like, I think I'm just gonna one last to night or I'm just gonna or or I'm not gonna drink tonight. I'm gonna have a diet cokexed line. And they're like okay, like nobody's like a gasp. And I think that that culture is changing, and I hope I hope that culture is changing for our kids because I think people are seeing more and more that alcohol is bad for us. And I think that the next generation is coming out and being like like I have younger friends that like they like, no, drinking makes me anxious. And when we have more people in our group that are like that, it's not like one person isn't drinking or two people aren't drinking, you know, it's like it's like, okay, who's having drinks, Okay, okay, okay, and then like that's it. Who needs water? Who needs to look? You know, who needs to look or who needs to chico like whatever, it's not It's not a like like, oh are you struggling, It's like it's like, oh, okay, you're not drinking tonight, cool, what do you need? It's it's just so much more casual. And and I'm also are I'm I am almost forty, but I have a lot of younger friends and they're all pregnant all the time, and so they're not drinking. That's just interesting now. I also I have a friend in my my best my best friend, like my very best friend, she consumes alcohol so well, like she's like one one is enough, and I'm always just like I want to be like you. And so having people in your life that model that and kind of set the precedence or aren't like you're not drinking like and because we have friends who are trying to get pregnant or are pregnant, nobody's like, I mean we clock it, don't. Don't get me wrong. Like if I've fi have a friend and I know she's trying to get pregnant and she does, she turns down a drinker, like check the day on that that for later. But I'm not being like why aren't you drinking? You know? So I think, yeah, I think that that culture is changing and and if it's not, then I want us to be that for our friends. I don't want to. I don't want to be the person that's like, well, what's going on? Why aren't you drinking? And so if it's like, oh, you're not drinking? Cool, what do you mean? I think that that's how my friend loved me through that?
00:34:09
Speaker 2: How do why do you think you know you talked about your your your experiment in June. What do you think like? Why did you feel like you had to hide it? Because and that's not like why do you feel like like I think because I think a lot of us feel.
00:34:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was purposeful. It was purposal because it was an internal struggle. Yeah, it was a it was the wrestle of like I don't want to admit that I am struggling with this, like this conviction that I'm feeling. I need to sort it out of my own kind of thing.
00:34:46
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm mm hmm. What was kind of Did did anyone else react to your posts with that about I know I commented on it. Really No, you're the only one.
00:35:00
Speaker 1: And again, I don't know if it's just if it's just my followers are like, yeah, like that's what she does, or if it was just like or if culture is changing in my hopes, that's my hope that culture is changing so much so that it's like, yeah, that's cool, Like I'm glad you're on board with.
00:35:14
Speaker 2: Us, right right, Okay, well that's good. Yeah you would you know, I want to go back to one last thing before we're going to talk about your transition. But you know, you talked about kind of your struggle with your faith, and I'm just curious what being on this side of it, which I think you are from what you talked about, what advice would you give to yourself looking back on the front side of it.
00:35:47
Speaker 1: M I think I'd even go back to like summertime, and and I would probably say, like, I feel like, so I don't know if I am a pastor's kid, so I'm like going back to like bibble school, But I would probably say to like like even if, like even if he is still good, like even if changing your relationship with alcohol doesn't change your faith, or even if sending your first kid off to college shakes you a little bit more than you want, or even if all these changes don't look what you thought I was going to look like God is still so good. And the thing my friends and I have said over the last like six months is God cares about the details. He's in, like the littlest things that like we don't even realize but then are later like, oh yeah, that totally worked out so good for us. It's it's those little the little, tiny details. So I probably would even whisper that to myself, like probably in the summer, like he's in the little He's in the little things. God cares about the little things.
00:36:54
Speaker 2: So that brings us to you potentially, I think a good transition. Yeah, which is your transition? And so you know you talked about that. I mean you've been you said it. You've been in the Christian media space for a long time, right, like like I think at least two successful podcasts and now you're you're like, I decided I'm going to be a flight attendant for a major airline. You've as we're as we're recording this, you've just kind of gotten through the bulk of your your training and now you're starting. I'm curious what went into that decision. We'll be right back after this.
00:37:39
Speaker 1: Oh it's so funny. And when we were talking before, like to linen it all up. It's like, oh man, God cares out all the little details. Because I applied for this job in June, in the middle, in the middle of like what I can look back now almost eight months later and be like, oh, that started to work with me in June. I mean he started working me back whatever. But like in June, this was a really intentional like that's a mile marker for me. I call it an ebenezer if you will. Yep, that's what it is, and so and so that's it's really interesting. But my sister's apply to sendant and so I've seen her kind of have this really fun life and I've I've also seen the really hard parts of it for her. And my husband and I talked about it for a long time, like, oh man, I would love to do that. And he's a shift worker, and he's like, it's not the time. It's not the time. And then I was like, hey, they're opening applications on the twenty It was the twenty sixth of June. They're opening applications on the twenty six Like, I kind of want to apply, knowing absolutely knowing it takes multiple times to apply for an airline, Like, what are the odds I get at this first round? Like I'll have to apply the next time they open. But it's a good like, it's a good start, like you have to get your foot in the door first. And now I feel a little bit like Ellwood's like, but like it's hard because.
00:39:07
Speaker 2: Because that thank you Millennials, thank you yes.
00:39:11
Speaker 1: And so that was in June. That was my sober month. I moved our first kid. I moved our daughter to high school. She's at a residential high school. I moved her to high school. We moved my oldest to college, and then we just kind of sat still for a bit. And in aviation, no news is good news, and so we just waited and waited and waited and waited. And then in September I got an email that was like, okay, I'm one way interview cool, and then in person interview in October YEP, and I was like, okay, We've going to training in June and and g anuway, I was like, oh, Like it's just the longest process in the world. But God was refining so much of me during those months, those months of waiting. It's almost like the wilderness you know, we're just kind of like in the middle of it all, just trying to like, this will be cool if it happens, and if not, like I'm sure there's another way. So I was kind of presenting that. But still I think I was a bad podcaster last year. I think I'm trying to remember how many podcasts episodes I actually put out because I could sense a change and I was getting a little bit better within the industry. To be totally honest with you, what do you mean, I was just getting frustrated. I was getting to the point where it's like I'm having these people on my shows multiple times, Like I've sat down and had these conversations with you twice now, and you're like, oh, it's nice to meet you, and it's like we've actually met before. Like I was just getting frustrated, like it was only media to them, it wasn't connection. And that's not to say that's for everybody. I like Laura, you said, like Laura Smith, Laura is one of my greatest online friends. I adore her, and she's so intentional with people. But not everybody is Laura. And so when you just feel like you are a media stop for them, and not an actual connection. And I got into this space to make connections, to connect listeners to these people, to to bring like like there was so much more like hope in my like Starry Little Eyes eight ten years ago, and so I just I kind of lost the luster for it and I was like, this is so much work and I do it all myself, and I just yeah, and I think yeah, and I think that that for me, it was really the Lord like ushering me out, ushering me into this change, and that's not for everybody. God might be like hold, like stay, and that's beautiful, but for me, I was like itching to change, like I just like I could, I like even just wiggling about it, like I felt like something different was coming and I had no idea what it was. And I'm still editing and producing, so I still have like my job in this space, and I don't want to do my job in this space, you know, like I don't want to show up and be a podcaster or anymore. So I just really wrestling with it and really struggling. And then and then I just stopped podcasting like I was under contract, and I was like I just don't want to do it anymore, and they were like, okay, whenever, like whenever you have a feeling, jump back behind the mic, and I did like here and there, and I'd be like, okay, I'm back now by sorry about that. And then it was like one episode and I just I just couldn't do it anymore like to And that's so I told my my network. I was like, I just to go sit behind a mic is a real big struggle for me. And they're like, okay, we'll keep creating content like just just do do you And it's like okay, and that freedom really set me free, like and then I you know, like even that wiggling I was doing, I felt like a cocoon, Like it felt like I don't know what's coming, but something's coming. And then in June it was like, well, maybe it'll be this, but if it's not, then I'll continue. I'll continue doing what I do behind behind the computer, but no longer behind the microphone. And yeah, this is my first time behind the microphone in a while. So it's really sweet and it's it's fun. I just I just lost like the passion for for myself and I have listeners that reach out to me and that's really fun. But what people don't understand that podcasting is it's very lonely because you sit down and you and I connect and that's amazing, right, But then you like throw it out there and you're like, hope.
00:43:27
Speaker 2: It hits and you never you know, I tell people reach out to me all the time. Yeah and.
00:43:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's rare.
00:43:35
Speaker 2: I rarely hear back from you guys. I mean, you'll comment on on clips and stuff like that, but I'm not getting like I'm not getting a ton of emails every episode, you know.
00:43:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's so then there's that like, well, are you doing it for you? Are you doing it for the people. It's like, I'm paying for the people. But it is nice to have it out a boy.
00:43:55
Speaker 2: Everyonce you generally hear you dally hear like you know, hey, you're like and the person that emailed me this actually you know didn't wasn't mean by it, but he's like, hey, can you like interview more men? You know, like, can you find more men that are willing to be radically vulnerable because right now it's all the women.
00:44:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, that's very true. Any like they if somebody told me one time, say a similar to the situation like, well, we only hear from you, only hear from like moms. And it's like if you look on you know, online space, a lot of people who are doing like influencing work or writing work or moms like every like it's I can't control who's out there, Like if you want to do you want to give me a list. So it's so that's kind of that. That was kind of where like the pivot from like from not being behind the microphone kind of started last year and then kind of owning more of like the social media space for myself and then the pivot of like, oh, oh I actually got this job. Oh I I have to go do this now, and the fact that it likes and in June probably hasn't really hit me until today, where I was like, oh, because I can tell like there was a couple of miles, like the no drinking in June, I started hitting the gym better, like more consistently and was like really intentional with the gym and my food and then and time for for this job. Like all that happened in June, and that's not lost on me now probably probably might might have been lost on me. So yeah, that's kind of the pivot. And now now the thing that I like, like the thing that people have mentioned to me most, and I just didn't really think about it until, like you said it today too, But pivoting. Pivoting is wild, and I was really embarrassed to pivot. I was really ask yeah, because because it's because media.
00:45:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, like we're we're like, I feel like you have to. And I have a writer's group that Laura's in, yeah, where we talk about this all the time, like you have to have this combination of obviously authenticity, but then there's like how are you feeding the algorithm and how are you doing stuff? And then to just all of a sudden, and I'm not saying you've given it all up completely, like you're still posting stuff, but yeah, I'm curious, explain that a little bit more.
00:46:16
Speaker 1: I think it my my path wasn't going the right direction anymore. Like I wasn't getting the book deal, I was getting turned down. I wasn't growing the way I thought I should be growing. I my numbers were fine, my podcast is great, but it just was like same thing every week, and so I just felt stagnant in that. And so then to pivot was really embarrassing because it's like, well, did I fail?
00:46:44
Speaker 2: Like is this right?
00:46:46
Speaker 1: Like like if I pivot like this, is that a failure? And I still probably wrestle with that, like the aspect of that a little bit. But at the same time, like I just I people. The thing I've had to tell myself is people new jobs all the time, like and before social media happened, like my mom switched careers in her forties, Like it's not it's not a wild thing. And then even just talking to my younger friends and like a lot of them are entrepreneurs and they're like, man, I'm gonna have to start a new job in my forties. And I'm like, hi, guys, like literally me, and they're like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And then I have a friend and she's she's got younger kids right now, and she's like, I am just so thankful that you're doing this because you're showing us moms with younger kids that there's life after this. And I was like, Oh, if that can be the beacon of hope for somebody that like that, like once she send your kids a way to college, your life isn't over, like for sure, that's the beacon. I want to be, like, yeah, that you can follow the Lord into the next season of life and it not be terrible, Like, yeah, that's exactly that's exactly what I would be. So so I've had to like look at those aspects and nobody was like, I can't believe you are stopping your podcast. You're not You're not serving us anymore. It's like nobody has said that to me. So I don't feel like a failure. I just am excited to lean in and show people The Lord in a totally different way now. And and if I'm being honest, I think podcasting is changing. I think I think you're doing a video podcast. You know that the media meaningam is changing. If we go back, yeah, no, if you go back forty years ago, video killed the radio star. Like so so you think about like you have to evolve and you have to do it. And it's like I just I just wasn't willing to chase that rabbit anymore. Mmm.
00:48:40
Speaker 2: I like that chase right because I think that your use of that word, because I think it's important and it's something that I'm constantly having to check myself in my heart on, like Lord am I chasing and that try for the right reasons, right, like, and listen, you know I talk about this a little bit in my book, but I say, you know, people think it's such an indictment to say you preach against your worst sin, And I'm like, no, absolutely you do because you know it intimately. So why do I struggle and have to unfollow people that I feel like are striving Because it's it's such a pull of my heart, right yeah, it's such like the performance, the the performance. Like no, I'm not saying like you know, I'm acting, but like where I have to achieve, Like that's a pull of my heart that I need to guard against, right, I have not Why would.
00:49:31
Speaker 1: We not make his perfect? His his his? What is it like he's perfect? Car of weaknesses? Like why would why would I not? Like I can't talk about this because it's my struggle, right well, he's made perfect of this, right yes, you say numbers?
00:49:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like I haven't looked at sales numbers for my latest book once. I haven't asked for them. I haven't checked Amazon author page. I haven't you know, my my first book, I go do and speaking engagement or I do a podcast Integram looking like, oh, do that get a bump? And again, you don't make money off of being especially a Christian author, right, So it wasn't like I was looking at that for how much money did I make? It was did it land? Did it hit? Did I say something like? And what I found myself is that strivings?
00:50:16
Speaker 1: Right?
00:50:16
Speaker 2: So when you use that word chasing, it's like I get that. I get that totally. And I do have so much respect for you for saying you know, like maybe there's some elements of that, and it's just I'm just not there anymore. Like it's just and I owe that we would all have the guts to evaluate whatever we're doing, whatever job, whatever, you know, anything, your kids' sports. Are you in it more for yourself than you are for them? And if so, man, let's have a pivot moment. You know. I look back thought your journey, right, especially with alcohol, and you've talked about now seeing this correlation to June, and I wonder, have you had to one of the things that I've had to learn since giving up alcohol, And for me, I had to give it up completely, right because I say, the only drink I can say no to is the first one. I've tried to do what you've done, and I respect you, and I celebrate that. My wife is like you, she can have one drink. And I'm like, I don't understand it, or even if I don't understand it, or even if I was able to understand it, I just can't stop. And I look back and I realize one of the things I didn't know or learn or understand how to do was to grieve well. And I am curious, did you have to grieve at all? Kind of like I'm putting this season to bed and I'm going to move into this new season, and do you see kind of any correlation with now, Hey, I don't have my coping mechanism is gone, so now now I truly do have to grieve it, Like was there any aspect of that in your story?
00:52:11
Speaker 1: You feel like I love to use the word grief because grief is such a such a pal of mine, Like I'm known grief my entire life. I can't I candidly or casually say like grief is. Grief has been a friend of mine since I was four years old when my bileace go dad passed away. And I've known grief every season of every stage, every major stage of my life, i've lost somebody, so I just know grief. Well, that doesn't mean I walk with him, well, but I know I don't. But yeah, we're pals, but I don't like them sometimes. So I think that there was this level of maybe not grief, but of example, because I have kids who are going to enter the drinking age soon, and I'm not an idiot. I know that they drink. So a little bit of it was I want to be able to to show them that it won it's okay to have just one drink, that like that's enough. And two I wanted them to see me turn drinks down because I wanted them to see that that is okay as well, or to understand that like not every drink has to every every opportunity to drink has to be like a rager and all out, like like party they have seen, they have seen they've not seen at all because it's not like our house like this party house, but like we hosted a party for a friend, and and they saw, they saw the abundance, but they also saw the people who were like sitting back being like, oh my god, our friends are so stupid and so I think that there's there's beauty for me. It was the lesson of how can I expect them to learn from me if I'm not willing to be an example. So there wasn't necessarily the grief in them. And then I'm even thinking about like travel, like now that I travel, and now that I'm like meeting people. One of my best friends in training, we were sitting at the restaurant and I was like, I'm in the good glass side, would you like anything? And he said, I don't drink, And so like the next like two days later, I was like, Okay, now that we have developed a friendship, I'm going to ask you like why, like why don't you drink? And so it's just so fascinating to see and hear people's stories in there. And if I can add just a glimmer of hope into someone's story, then that's all that. That's that's why we show up online, right like just those little glimmers. So to answer your question, I don't feel like I had grief there. I feel like I had I had a chip on my shoulder that I needed to teach my kids. Mmm.
00:54:44
Speaker 2: Interesting, What are you most excited for in this next season.
00:54:52
Speaker 1: This is what the Lord is teaching me, and I'm an amazing friend. And she called me the other day and she's like, what's God teaching you? And I was like, honestly, I feel like it's been pretty chill, but that as I'm like talking about it, I'm like, Oh, the Lord is teaching me so much. I'm really excited to be alone. And that's a really hard thing for a mom of three and a wife of twenty years to say, because I don't know alone, Like I don't know that because I'm never alone. And as my kids have left, like I was like my senior high school, he's always gone. And my husband's, like I said, work tonights often. But I can always call a friend, I can always feel that time. I can always kind of like find that. But there was times last weekend that I was exploring alone and I thought, oh, if I didn't like like myself enough right now, this would be really hard. And if I wasn't like learning how to explore on my own. Note, Jesse's great and he sends me like to go go here and you will like these things. So he's a great little tour guide from Afar. But that is what I'm excited about I'm excited to really get to know me in a new season and next week a new decade, to to really hone like what God has created.
00:56:05
Speaker 2: Mm. Would you do anything differently about that season that you walked through the decision? Anything?
00:56:16
Speaker 1: I really like that you asked me about, like why I kept it a secret and I probably would have been a little bit more vulnerable. I probably would have like maybe even posted about it, like hey, I'm not drinking this month or something along those lines to give people more thought to it. I think I think that I never want people to think I'm struggling, Like that's like a send struggle for me, Like I want people to think I'm okay, call that the pastors skidded me every side. So I think that there's a little bit of that, But I also think that there's there There was just probably a little bit of lack of vulnerability, and I think I probably could have stepped into that a little bit better.
00:56:57
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. What do you think it is? You You've kind of wanted to this a little bit too, Like you said this earlier that you know, alcohol and drinking is kind of that one issue that ever, you know, if you were eating seven donuts. And I think especially even even in Christian culture, like even in the Christian space and you've been in the Christian space for a long time. I was meeting with a guy recently and he's like, we went on a family vacation and like with extended family. He's like, I was just it was so eye opening. Here I am surrounded by people all who are professing Christians and they're like, well, we're on vacation. And he's like, and it was just you know, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drin, drin, drink drink. And he's like, I just what you know, And I'm like, welcome to my world, right, Like like part of what I'm what I'm what has opened my eyes too. But I'm just curious why you think that is, because it seems like you've seen that too. We'll be right back after this.
00:58:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's just I don't even know, like part of me, part of me is like, well, wine was in the Bible, so it's totally okay with us. But there's there's definitely this like line of it's it's almost all or nothing. And that's why I kind of like being like, no, I still I still drink, like like yeah, I just know that there's not an abund I don't want abundance there because I grew up Southern Baptist and my dad said, you'll never become an alcoholic if you don't take the first drink. And that's true. It's a very true statement. It's also very fearful.
00:58:35
Speaker 2: Yes if I'm and it's not biblical to not like meaning it's not like someone tried to come at me with that. I'm like, get out of here. No, yeah, drinking is not prohibit in the Bible.
00:58:46
Speaker 1: Sorry. Yeah, So I think and I think people are well drunkennesses and it's like okay, well drunkenness happens in different stages for all of us. Like it's I don't think drunkenness means it when it says like do not be about I don't think that that's like slashing, you know, like like all that. I think that there is a level of like when you know that you have had too much of anything. But I think that it becomes a it's a it's a it's an okay sin. For us, it's an okay, it's an okay cope and I don't, and I I don't know why. I don't know why it is and I and I think that people will come back to like, well, each of our convictions are different. And it's like, right, so what are your convictions? Like where are you convicted? Because if you're not convicted anywhere, good Lord, tell me tell me more, Like like I didn't, I would love to know how you breached closeness with God in this. So that's my sassy side a little bit. But it is interesting that it's just it's it's one of those things where uh, I think it was an online post that said, like compared not drinking to like eating a tub of mayonnaise, Like you're not eating mayonnaise? Why aren't you leading this mayonnaise? And it's like and it's like, well, that's disgusting. That's a bad for you. It's not good for you, it's not good for your body. Oh my god, I can't believe you wouldn't happens. It's funny because it's like, we know the alcohol is bad for us. It's the one thing that we will shame people in our life if they're not doing it. Yeah, So I don't know, I wish I wish I had a better answer. It's just it's it's boggling. It's mind boggling.
01:00:28
Speaker 2: If if someone is listening to this and they are where you were last June, what's your what's your piece of advice to them? Mm hmm.
01:00:42
Speaker 1: I would say follow follow the conviction, like trace that line down, because I think when we have that hint of like something's not right here, that's obviously the HOI Spirit and I love and I'm so thankful that Holy Spirit was like attentive to me even when I was really mad at them, and I think when we when we kind of oh gosh. Stephen Ferdick uh Sat had a sermon many many years ago about like taking every thought captive and how it's like an actual prisoner of war, like like take it so seriously. That's what I would do. I would I would in my in my podcast or brain I would take it like a true crime documentary and like and like follow followed the line, like where where did where is this? Where's this? Like pinndat okay, now why is it here? Now? Where did it go from there? And really just get to the bottom of it, because I feel like if I had done that sooner and really got to the bottom of it, I wouldn't have needed that like heart on the ground moment in October.
01:01:52
Speaker 2: Mmmm, that's good, And I just want to remind people like well, to that point, I'll say this, curiosity, I think is one of the most important aspects of any type of growth and healing and whatnot. And I think that is I think that's what you're getting at, is curiosity, and so like, I love that. I love that follow the line, like you know, you have your white board and you're like, Okay, this leads to this, this leads to this, this is to this, and I think that's so important. So thank you for sharing that. At this point in the interview is where I would usually say to my guest, if people want to learn more about you and read what you're doing, and you know, follow your podcast, then where can they go. But since you have decided, you know what, I'm not going to strive, I'm not going to do that. I'll I'll not do that and not put you on the spot, but I guess I will say that if people want to see you, they should just book you. You don't want to say the airline, because I get it. Right, So I'll just say book on one of your major carriers.
01:03:10
Speaker 1: No, but also come follow me on social media. I'm at Jeanet freaking Cap on Instagram and TikTok and I have a newsletter that goes out once a month.
01:03:17
Speaker 2: And so you're still doing some stuff.
01:03:20
Speaker 1: I am, I am, I'm totally sometimes. Yeah, content, content is still still there. Social media is is my main kind of focus. But my newsletter is I say, like the social media is like the backyard party where everyone's kind of like milling around and hanging out. Like the newsletter is when you come in and it's like you have coffee with me, so you get like you get like the depth of my heart there, which which is really sweet and I love I love my my newsletter and it's got lots of cool freezies there and yeah, check that out. It's I can I can send you a link for that. But yeah, it's a it's a fun place. So I'm still I'm totally doing stuff. I'm just not focused on podcasting.
01:04:04
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for your vulnerability today, thank you for being open. And I just know there's gonna be people that are encouraged and if you are reach out to me and Jeanette, and let us know, give us that.
01:04:19
Speaker 1: We just want to pat on the back, just need a little.
01:04:23
Speaker 2: You know, I was teaching my kids. You know, my son who's eight, you know, he's on baseball team. And he walked by me and and I give him a little pat on the butt in a good way. He's like, what was that for. I said, it's called a good game, so we need a virtual good game. So I appreciate that.
01:04:40
Speaker 1: This is great. I appreciate you.
01:04:44
Speaker 2: I didn't have a drinking problem. I had a problem with my drinking. Listen, if you're hearing this, you do not have to wait for alcohol, food, porn, work, whatever to destroy your life before you make a decision to get curious about it. And especially if you're a Christian, your calling is to make war on the idols in your life, right, like John Owen, be killing sin or it will be killing you. And I think maybe it's hard for some of you to realize that a thing that you're not that doesn't look so bad can be sinful. But James talks about that anything the Lord convicts us to do and we don't do it as sin, and I think that can be the hardest, And I wish that I would have heeded that call that's stirring sooner. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. It would have saved me a lot of pain, would have saved my wife and my family a lot of pain and heartache. Remember, the Gospel is an early warning detection system, Like before the world will ever say you have a problem with something, the Gospel is revealing it and Jesus is not gonna get your heart. And that's what I want to encourage you about. Like that's my goal with this podcast and what I do. So I just I appreciate Jeanette so much. I appreciate her honesty, heretical vulnerability. Go ahead and follow her on Instagram. It's kind of fun to watch her her flight attendant videos and you kind of get to go behind the scenes and see what that is. Like I've always been fascinated by that. My wife at some point, like her dream was always to be a flight attendant, like and who knows, like maybe in retirement she will be one because she just loves to travel. She loves that idea and and so I you know, maybe that's part of the extra fascination. But I think it's I think it's so cool again. I know I said at the beginning, but but please visit Veritasrecovery dot org if you find any heart to maybe just throw five bucks to help us keep going and keep creating resources. We have an exciting series coming out with Right Now Media called We're All Addicted to Something that will come out September eighth. It's slated September eighth, twenty twenty six, and man, I can't wait for you to see it, And there'll be ways even if you don't have access to right now Media you'll be able to see it as well. Love you all so much. Shoot me an email, let me know how you're doing. We'll see you here next week.
Speaker 1: I was not satisfied with just one drink, and that, to me was my problem. I can't have just one glass of wine. And I almost like craved that second class because that second class was gonna kind of give you the foggy feeling that like my body needed to check out. I was like, Okay, then that's the problem Life Audio.
00:00:24
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel, and I am the Christian who became an alcoholic, not the other way around. Here we get radically vulnerable about an addiction, recovery, messy sanctification, and all the things we turn to instead of Jesus because we're all addicted to something. You'll hear raw, honest conversations from those who have struggled, those who help those who struggle, and why aiming for Jesus and getting sobriety thrown in is actually the best goal. So let's get right into this week's episode. One of the things that I find really interesting encouraging is it seems like there are plenty of people waking up to the fact that you don't have to look like a traditional addict, alcoholic whatever in order to change a relationship with a substance with anything. And our guest today is one of those people. She has a massive following on Instagram. She's a Christian woman who has for years been a successful podcaster and writer. Her name is Jeanette Tapley, and I noticed towards the end of last year that she was posting a recap of twenty twenty five and one of the things she mentioned was as a as a positive was realizing that her relationship with alcohol needed to change. Now, Jeanette does not call herself an alcoholic, but she has realized that the way that she was treating alcohol, the place that it occupied in her life, the jobs that she had given, it was all unhealthy, and so she set out on a mission to re examine it. She got curious, and if you are here for the first time or you have heard several episodes, curiosity is so key. And so Jeanette went on this journey and what she found at the end was uncomfortable. She found that what she was using alcohol for was was unhealthy, even though even though she was not this quote unquote drunk, right, And so she's going to tell us her story. She's also going to give a life update. If you follow her online, you kind of have realized that she is doing something different these days other than just the writing and the podcasting, and has kind of gotten away from that a little bit. So we're going to talk about her life update, which I think is always I love having those conversations. I think when people have posted life updates, and especially in the Christian world, and have said, hey, like I've realized, like I've realized some things and I'm going in a different direction, I'm always fascinated by them. And so this also leads to a good conversation on striving and what it looks like to try to be someone in the quote unquote Christian content sphere that doesn't just chase likes. And there are plenty of people that I know that do that. And that doesn't mean that everything they post is bad, right, It just means that I think there there's a healthy way to do it, in an unhealthy way to do it. Jesus still uses it, and I'm grateful for that because, as a reminder, Jesus only God only works through sinners, right, and the only one that he worked through that wasn't was Jesus. So so if you're expecting perfection. It's not gonna happen. Doesn't give us an excuse. But we're gonna talk to Jeanette about that. We're going to talk to her about her realizations. And I love I love the quote that that she uses, and I want you to ponder it now and as she gets into it, but she says, I didn't have a drinking problem, I had a problem with my drinking. Think about that. I didn't have a drinking problem. I had a problem with my drinking. I love that. I think it's another unique way to kind of say what I've been saying, which is we're all a do something to start with. We all have those things that we turn to that become idols. And it doesn't matter what it is, drinking, Netflix, food, porn, relationships, and so you may not have a relationship problem, but you may have a problem with your relationship. So with that said, I want to get into it with Jeanette, but real quickly appreciate your support. If you have enjoyed this podcast in the past, or if you've even just loved this introduction and this is your first time, please think about sharing one thing that you're about to hear with someone else like great, whatever, and please check out Veritasrecovery dot org. Veritas Recovery is the nonprofit I started to help people just like me and probably just like you. If you're listening to this who find themselves doing the things they don't want to do. You can go to veritasrecovery dot org find free resources. You can inquire about coaching as well. And I just you know, the Lord has told me in so many ways to give it away, and so as much as I can do that, I do, and so you'll find a lot of those ways at partester recovery dot org. All right, let's get into it with Jeannette Tapley. Jeanette, thank you so much for joining the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. We talked a little bit before, and you are have have historically been on my side of the mic, and now you're on the other side, and so we're just gonna flip the script. So thanks for coming.
00:06:32
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it is so fun. I actually was like looking for the record button because I am so used to like, all right, here we go, So thank you for having me. John. This is so fun. I actually love being interviewed. I just love talking. That's what it is. I just love chatting. So I'm really excited to be here.
00:06:49
Speaker 2: Well great, and I'm so honored that you decided to come on. You know, I said this a little bit in the intro, but you know, we tell all kinds of stories on this podcast related to alcohol or other you know, addictions, whether that's food or whatnot. And I'm not saying you were an addict, but we're going to get into that. But one of the things I continually preach is that we're not about and hopefully people don't see that. You have to have some desperate rock bottom moment to be like, you know what, this ain't working for me, or I need to change this relationship whatever that looks like. And so I'm excited to talk about that. But before we get into that part of your story, why don't you introduce yourself? And I'm curious, like I'm curious how you're going to introduce who you are and what you do because there's been some change recently.
00:07:44
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is take it away. This is the first time I get to do this. I'm gent happily, I'm a wife. I've been married for almost twenty two years. I think, yeah, we're almost at twenty two years. We've been together forever. So at that point after twenty I realized she's like, we've married twenty plus years. We have three kids. I have a freshman in college, I have a senior in high school, and I'm a freshman in high school. And I have been showing up on the internet for a very long time as a podcast host, podcast producer, and just social media. And I say influence, I would say I would say content creator. I would love to say influencer, but I don't know about that. So a social media content creator and in the last few months, a flight attendant for a major what do we say? Major US carrier? So now I am a flight senate. I'm adding that to my resume, and it's so much fun.
00:08:41
Speaker 2: And I want to I want to, hopefully if time allows, I want to get into a little bit about that decision, like maybe we can like we're gonna break new now, yeah, yeah, do it.
00:08:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:08:50
Speaker 2: I would just love to unpack that with you, because whenever someone makes a kind of like career change, there's a part of me, not a part of me, there's there's I respect it because I know that it can be so hard, especially when you're and I'm not saying your identity was wrapped up in your other job, but when you've done something for so long and it takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of thought and prayer. Although you kind of joked in your one reel like you're like probably needed a hug today, decided to, you know, apply for energy, which I thought, yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you can definitely get into it because it does it does tie into like how the last year changed, how how so much of what changed in the last year changed me in the last year. So well, definitely we can get into that.
00:09:42
Speaker 2: So I was first introduced to you because I'm not going to pretend that I'm your target audience, you know, kind of young middle aged moms. So I think you and I had a mutual friend Laura, and we were part of like an Instagram giveaway and it was like, hey, follow each other and you post stuff and then you kind of like share all the new followers and it was great. And that was like maybe a year or two ago, and so you came on my feed. But I'm gonna be honest, like we didn't really we never talked. We didn't know each other. So then at the end of twenty twenty five, you came on my feed with kind of like an end of year recap, and you posted let me see here seven six things that You're like, five things I'm leaving behind in twenty twenty five, six things I'm bringing into twenty twenty six, and then things I feel that and I thought it was so interesting. I read that post, and number two on things I'm leaving behind in twenty twenty five said this, I'm gonna read it mindless coping. I got real honest about ALCOHOLI this year, why I reached for it, how it impacted my rest, and what it revealed about my rhythms. And I think for me, I read that and I was like, dang, that's good, right, And I wish I wish I would have done that, you know, years ago, because I know what it ended up becoming. And I'm not saying that everyone in your position ends up becoming an alcoholic like me, but man, I thought that was so good, so brave, so courageous, and so my question that I want to just open it up to is you say you got real about your relationship with alcohol, And I would say you know what did that look like? What did you learn? Why were you reaching for it? What did it reveal? Like you said in the post, I'm curious.
00:11:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, man. Uh. Even hearing you like read that post back, I'm like, oh yeah, like and that just to like peek behind my creative brain is I had that idea for a post while I was working out, Like that's sometimes it's like when I have like I'm like ooh, Like I will be in like mid workout and like running around my phone like did you write this down? And so even hearing you a reread, I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember, I remember the genesis of that post. And so so what happened was last year I about this time, I was thirty nine and no I was thirty eight, and I was entering my thirty ninth birthday, like getting ready for my third ninth birthday, and I thought, I want to I want to spend this year making making like the entrance into this next decade really really intentional. And so that meant looking at a lot of my rhythms and habits and I got an hour ring and it just it it started opening my eyes to so many things. And so I guess to like when I look back at that line that you read, like, I got real about like what what drinking was doing to me and how I was reaching for it or even and we joke a lot in my friend group like I don't need a drink, but I want to drink, like because we're really careful with that line, like I don't need to drink, but I would love to drink or love a drink. And so it was kind of that mindset that really started kind of taking hold. And call it conviction, call it awareness, call it a health push or whatever, but it was like, oh, I really need to sit down and start looking at this. So that started in March and then and then it wasn't until June that I was like, Okay, you said you're gonna enter this next You're gonna really work on yourself this next year. What have you been doing. You haven't been doing much. And so in June I did. I had a sober month, like I didn't drink it all for June, and then I started hitting the gym a lot more. I've always gone to the gym, like I know that the gym is good for my body. I know that it's good for my mental health. I like, my best friends are at the gym. They own the gym, so like, go into the gym is easy for me. But it was like, Okay, I'm actually gonna like I'm actually gonna like push myself. I'm gonna be intentional. And I think that that's what June started for me, was this month of intention. I wasn't drinking, I was working at more, I was seeing I was seeing the data. That's that's really what hit me was. I was seeing the data on my worring. I was resting better, I was sleeping better, I was recovering faster. And I was like, oh, people aren't wrong. Alcohol is poison, like shocking, you know, like who knew? Who knew that science was real in this? And so that's where it kind of started. And then it then after a sober month, you're allowed, you know, quote unquote allowed to drink again, and it's like, okay, how how am I going to do this? And I think throughout the throughout the next six months, I was said the line a lot. I don't have a drinking problem. I have a problem with my drinking. And so I just knew that the way that I was reaching for alcohol in a stressful moment. We we We've said for years that we've had a really hard couple of years. But my we lost my father a lot of it's just it's just constant. But we lost my father a lot of cancer a couple of years ago. Having a daughter that has some unspecified mood disorders has been really hard on our family. Uh. We we have back to back seniors in high school. I don't recommend I don't recommend that that's hard to launch two kids back to back. It's awful and it's but it's also so great. Like I say that it's awful, but it's like I love it so much. So it was just it was it was time to kind of take stock and and kind of peel the layers back and be like, Okay, why are you reaching for this? And if you could reach for something else, what would you reach for? And so I started reaching for like chocolate magnesium at night, and just it was like, Okay, if I said I'm gonna if I said I'm going to do this and I'm gonna do it, well, then I then I actually have to do it.
00:15:51
Speaker 2: By the way, like that line was so good, I like I was writing it down. I was literally and I've gone back to like pen and paper, so I wasn't checking my phone if you're watching its daily, I just like I was like, I wanna, I want to remember that and so okay, So if if that was kind of the line that you said over the next six months, then what did that look like? I mean, you said you were reaching for my music. So is it like you're like, okay, give it up for a month and now I don't drink at all? What does that look like for you?
00:16:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really came down to, okay, if I'm not drinking, like, I still drink, like I love I love a glass of wine, I love a cocktail. But it revealed in me that I was I was not satisfied with just one drink, and that to me was my problem. I was like, oh, if I can't have just one glass of wine and I need I like I almost like craved that second class because that second class was gonna kind of give you the foggy feeling that like my body needed to check out. I was like, Okay, then then that's the problem. So then I had to like teach myself, like I limited myself, like if you drink you have one, and it was like it just was that kind of like mentality. And so now now I can't And now hear me when I say there's still the battle of like well liked, and it's like no, no, no, Like I've just trained myself now to be like one is one isn't like one is one is totally fine?
00:17:19
Speaker 2: How right? Like how yeah? Because there's people listening to this who are like, I want that. I mean, yeah, I want to be able to train like I want just that one. And I think for me, you know, my wife and I for a while it was like it was like just two, right, And I know it's not too so I was never able to have that, but I also know there are people who can't, right yeah. And so I'm just curious, like, what did it look like for you to train yourself? Was it spiritual? Was it physical? Was it a combination? Was it you're reminding yourself of X, Y and Z. I'm just curious.
00:17:57
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this, Yeah, I think it would probably. And this is the other side of it where I want to be like really mindful and say, like I do have alcoholism in my family, but I don't feel like I struggle with that part of it, and so I could be like I just tell myself no, and people are like, cool, that doesn't work, you know. So I want to be really, really mindful to say, like I understand that this isn't like it's not this easy for other people. But it really was a disciplined aspect. It was accountability. I tell my husband like, I'm only gonna have one and I'd be like, like that's where it stops, and he had to hold me accountable fat but he also works sights. And then that was the other thing is he's he's away a lot on nights, and I had to tell myself that I wasn't and I hate to say it was allowed, but it almost starts with that, like that base level of like allowance. It was like I'm not allowed to drink if Jesse's not home because then it's just me and the kids, and my teenage kids are gonna be like, mom, you said you only wanted one drink tonight. You know, like they're not gonna like parent me. So I had to go through Like it was a lot of discipline. I think I think what it comes down to is like I had to focus on the discipline part of it, so that I could kind of like create those habits. You know, nowadays we look at like streaks kids are kids are obsessed with their streaks for whatever, and so it had to be a streak. I had to be a streak of like the last time you only had one and that was really good, Like you did a really good job, or the last time Jesse was on nights you didn't drink alone and that was really good. Or you know, like like you almost have to like build up that muscle memory so that so that the next time you are in a situation where you're like, well, two glasses, wouldn't it be terrible? Now. There were times where I would be out to dinner and one margarita would be great, and then we're like laying you know, like I almost feel like that like long dinner time, and it would be like I'm gonna have another. Like It's like there was also the allowance of like I'm not going to be so strict and rigid that I'm not gonna enjoy my time with my or it almost comes down to, and this is where I think a lot of people really can shrugg where it's like, well, it's fun. Is this it's a lot it's okay, And it's like does it feel okay in your heart today? Like that's where that's where like the conviction comes in, where it's like it's almost like that silent moment of like, okay, God, it's like if I have the second drink? Am I being disobedient to you? Am I following the discipline that we have set up? Like is this okay? Like like that quick combo with God where it's like, Hey, I think I'm gonna do this or are you good with that? And if it's like a if it's like you said one drink, it's like okay, cool, Like I'm not gonna do it like I'll have I'll have a coke, I'll have all that doc T Prepper or something, you know, like switch it up a little bit. But it was it was a lot of like it was a lot of talking to myself and talking to the Lord and just kind of obeying that discipline that you set forth.
00:20:44
Speaker 2: What do you think you know, you talked a little bit about that conviction. What do you think that conviction was for you? Like? Was it was it mostly like Hey, I'm using this to cope and that's you know, I need to be careful there. What do you feel like was the greatest conviction for you personally?
00:20:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was the coping checking out. It was. It's the wildest thing that alcohol is the one thing that everyone's okay with you kind of indulging in without without being like hey are you good? And so, like I said, so many emotional things and heavy things were happening that Like if I were to have two to three glasses of wine and people who know me know what's going on, like yeah, yeah, you deserve that. Whereas like if I was any sort of other like it's struggling in any other way. If I if I was eating like seven donuts with my friends, they were gonna be like, yeah, that's okay. They'd be like, dude, what are you doing? And so I think it was that conviction of like why are you checking out? Why are you turning to this and stead up to the lord one because sometimes it's easier to check out than turn to the lord like I would I would much rather not be convicted in this moment. Then yes, and it hits. It's a quick hit, and so so that's where that's where it was the conviction of like why are you turning to this over over the Lord? And some of it was like because I know that this is gonna this is gonna affect me immediately, and the Lord is gonna be like be still in wait, I am fighting for you, and I'm like, cool, I don't want that, Like I don't want to be still.
00:22:16
Speaker 2: I don't want that.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: And there was a there was a big season where I like I was running from the Lord, not in a sense of like my faith was weak, like that's that's what I'll say. I was. I was, and I and I think that that shows it shows that my faith was weak if I was turning here so often. And that was such a such a problem that I wasn't really ready to admit to him or to myself to be like, hey, I actually like don't trust you right now. And so as I was kind of reevaluating and coming and coming back, but it was also this like, Okay, I know that you're gonna fight for me. I know that you care for my family, I know that you do all this. So the surrender was laying down alcohol and trusting him him to like actually fight for me.
00:23:03
Speaker 2: What brought you to that place. I mean, I know you talked about I know you talked about you've seeing the health benefits and maybe that's it, right, But but what brought you to the place of even seeing kind of the you know, I talk a lot about root versus fruit, right, so the fruit was, Hey, I'm doing this, I'm coping. What made you really kind of look and see?
00:23:21
Speaker 1: Man?
00:23:21
Speaker 2: This comes down to you A trust issue? Really in my.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: Home, yeah, it's really it centers around my kids. My oldest has struggled with his mental health here and there. In this last fall, he had a really hard moment and I just remember sitting next to him on the floor while he was sleeping and just having that like talk with the Lord and being like, man, I said, I've trusted you with these kids. And he's the biggest and he's the one that doesn't like live at home. He's in college, and and if I say I trust you, then I actually have to trust to you. And if like, if you can it. It was like, if you do this, then I will this. And it was like, if you can, like, if you can make him okay today, then I'll get back in the word I will, I will, I will do everything I know to do because I can trust you if today is okay? Mmm.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: So when you kind of got back to that that place, yeah, you know you've been on this side, right, you know, what do you feel like? Was it those hard things? You know? I talked about it just being a slow fade, right, and my slow fade then looked like more and more coping. Yeah, but what did that? What did that look like for you? Was it more like, hey, you know, all these things happened in succession, and so I just got busy, But like, what what did what did the fade? If there was a fade, what did that look like for you? Just spiritually? Like you know you said, I just wasn't in a good place with God.
00:24:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it started with some hard kids stuff and then my father loves cancer, and then more hard kids stuff, and then you know, just like life kind of snowballed. And when you when you cope a little bit, that coping doesn't like it's not enough anymore, Like you almost have to cope more like and so then you like drinking is no longer like drinking one glass of wine is never is not enough, Like, oh shoot, you drink a whole bottle of wine. And then it's like, well, on top of that, with your screen time limits at like or do you have limits? And so you just like your life, your life becomes a cope like everything that you're doing is coping or or trying to cope with everything that you're not dealing with. And so I think it was just a slow fade. It was it was man, life is hard, and like I said, we joke that, like, man, life has been harsh for the last couple of years, for six years, like and at that point, I think it's like, I think that's just life. Girl, Like, no, don't just help me that. I think that might just be live, Like I wish there was a better way. So I think that it's it was a little bit of that. But I think that slow fade is really what it is, because because like I said, all of a sudden, one class of wine is to end up it's two and then you're scrolling until midnight, or then you're reading things that you don't that you know you don't like to, or you're watching things that you know you don't like to. You know, like like all of your convictions kind of go out the window. When when you're quote unquote I'm just coping. I'm just dealing. I'm just this And it's like once, once I kind of like resurrendered, it was like, ooh, there's a lot going on here that like you have to clean house like I had to. I had to really check my phone. I really I had to. I had to unfollow a lot because I was like the stuff that I was consuming was actually not doing my heart and my mind as well. And yeah, you just have to, like I said, I think it's just like like room by room, clean up the house.
00:26:50
Speaker 2: You know, you said you said something there that I've been doing, but I've been struggling with doing and that is unfollowing. And what I have been doing is not necessarily unfollowing, like you know, oh I was you know, this was a quote unquote bad account or whatnot. But even just other people Christians who I'm like, it appears to me like you're striving, right, You're constantly just trying to manufacture. You're constantly doing this, that and the other thing. And maybe some of it is good, right, but man, I look at it and it just does something to me, and the something to me may be my fault, right, It may be like a something inside of me that maybe they're not striving, like maybe I'm unfairly judging them, And so I've struggled. I'm like, so do I unfollow them or not? Because if I unfollow them, then is that really just am I admitting like it's a problem with me and it's not their fault. And I like go back and forth, and finally I'm just like, well, maybe I am the weaker vessel, and then I just need to right. And so I'm curious if you had any sort of struggle like that and and if you felt like a tension of man, I'm gonna unfollow some of this stuff and and maybe it's not bad. Maybe it is bad, but it's a meat problem. I don't know. I'm just curious if you had any similar thoughts or feelings.
00:28:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that I definitely see that where it's like, man, this this person is and for me it's like this person is doing so well and I'm not to that caliber or I'm not or I'm not doing that or I oh, shoot, I haven't tried that tactic yet. Maybe I should try that, right, and it causes me to strive. Yeah, And so I'm like yeah, and so I had to unfollow a lot of like the social media marketing stuff like people stuff like that where it was like thirty reels for thirty days and grow your platform, and it was like, oh, I I can't do that. I can't do that. And so there was a lot of that I haven't followed. I mean, then there's some like I've been I've been in the Christian media space for for a very long time, and there was some people that was like I just had them follow and it was there was a little bit of like heart hurt for me kind of like tiptoeing away from it a little bit like these people don't actually know my name and that's okay, like they don't need to know my name, but like I have been in this space for a while and I'm just gonna like I'm just gonna I'm just gonna remove myself from this. And that was maybe a little bit of like I'm gonna remove myself from it, like maybe some days was a little bit like Poudy, and then some days it was like I actually don't think I'm supposed to be right here anymore. Yeah, and that and that being okay, But then also so I think it's like this triangle of like there's probably a little bit of that, a little bit of like hurt feelings, and then a little bit of like like it's fine, like an unfollowed like it's not actually gonna hurt them, and it's actually probably gonna be okay for me. Like yeah, like it's it's you know, it's it's that like reality of like I can always refollow later.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, you hinted at, you know, kind of walking away from the space, and I want to get there in a second. But my I want to ask you this, what was the reaction to your I mean, you have the posts that you did at the end of the year talking about stepping away from from alcohol or treating it differently. Yeah, what was the reaction first among your friends or even not your friends, maybe just people who were in your circle, Like, did anyone take notice where they like huh, I'm just curious what the reaction was.
00:30:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for my sober June, I only told a couple of my my close friends because summertime in Texas is yes, the time to drink, like it really is.
00:30:44
Speaker 2: You go to the lake.
00:30:46
Speaker 1: Yes, there's nothing I mean, there's a lot better than this, and so I want to be really careful for words, but nothing, nothing is more than a nice margarita, buy the pool like it just sometimes that's just what hits. And so and so we had had a couple of like birthday parties back to back, and after one birthday party, I was like, this is this is the day, Like I stopped drinking for the month, and then we had more birthday parties. Well, I was just really intentional that I would always have like an Alani or like a Seltzer water or something something that like I could pour into a fun cup and have a fun cup, because I feel like if you have a fun cup in your hands, nobody's asking me questions, and if everybody's drinking around you, nobody's noticing that you're not getting to that level, you know what I mean. So that first month, I like really was really quiet about it. And then I just believe that I have really holy friends and friends who are really intentional one with relationship with me and two relationship their own relationship with God. And so I'd be like, yeah, I'm I'm I've said the same thing. I have said the same thing. So then I said to you like I don't have a drinking problem, but I have a problem with how much I'm drinking or have problem with my drinking. And they'd be like, Okay, well what do you even'ta do about it? And I was like, I think I'm just gonna one last to night or I'm just gonna or or I'm not gonna drink tonight. I'm gonna have a diet cokexed line. And they're like okay, like nobody's like a gasp. And I think that that culture is changing, and I hope I hope that culture is changing for our kids because I think people are seeing more and more that alcohol is bad for us. And I think that the next generation is coming out and being like like I have younger friends that like they like, no, drinking makes me anxious. And when we have more people in our group that are like that, it's not like one person isn't drinking or two people aren't drinking, you know, it's like it's like, okay, who's having drinks, Okay, okay, okay, and then like that's it. Who needs water? Who needs to look? You know, who needs to look or who needs to chico like whatever, it's not It's not a like like, oh are you struggling, It's like it's like, oh, okay, you're not drinking tonight, cool, what do you need? It's it's just so much more casual. And and I'm also are I'm I am almost forty, but I have a lot of younger friends and they're all pregnant all the time, and so they're not drinking. That's just interesting now. I also I have a friend in my my best my best friend, like my very best friend, she consumes alcohol so well, like she's like one one is enough, and I'm always just like I want to be like you. And so having people in your life that model that and kind of set the precedence or aren't like you're not drinking like and because we have friends who are trying to get pregnant or are pregnant, nobody's like, I mean we clock it, don't. Don't get me wrong. Like if I've fi have a friend and I know she's trying to get pregnant and she does, she turns down a drinker, like check the day on that that for later. But I'm not being like why aren't you drinking? You know? So I think, yeah, I think that that culture is changing and and if it's not, then I want us to be that for our friends. I don't want to. I don't want to be the person that's like, well, what's going on? Why aren't you drinking? And so if it's like, oh, you're not drinking? Cool, what do you mean? I think that that's how my friend loved me through that?
00:34:09
Speaker 2: How do why do you think you know you talked about your your your experiment in June. What do you think like? Why did you feel like you had to hide it? Because and that's not like why do you feel like like I think because I think a lot of us feel.
00:34:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was purposeful. It was purposal because it was an internal struggle. Yeah, it was a it was the wrestle of like I don't want to admit that I am struggling with this, like this conviction that I'm feeling. I need to sort it out of my own kind of thing.
00:34:46
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm mm hmm. What was kind of Did did anyone else react to your posts with that about I know I commented on it. Really No, you're the only one.
00:35:00
Speaker 1: And again, I don't know if it's just if it's just my followers are like, yeah, like that's what she does, or if it was just like or if culture is changing in my hopes, that's my hope that culture is changing so much so that it's like, yeah, that's cool, Like I'm glad you're on board with.
00:35:14
Speaker 2: Us, right right, Okay, well that's good. Yeah you would you know, I want to go back to one last thing before we're going to talk about your transition. But you know, you talked about kind of your struggle with your faith, and I'm just curious what being on this side of it, which I think you are from what you talked about, what advice would you give to yourself looking back on the front side of it.
00:35:47
Speaker 1: M I think I'd even go back to like summertime, and and I would probably say, like, I feel like, so I don't know if I am a pastor's kid, so I'm like going back to like bibble school, But I would probably say to like like even if, like even if he is still good, like even if changing your relationship with alcohol doesn't change your faith, or even if sending your first kid off to college shakes you a little bit more than you want, or even if all these changes don't look what you thought I was going to look like God is still so good. And the thing my friends and I have said over the last like six months is God cares about the details. He's in, like the littlest things that like we don't even realize but then are later like, oh yeah, that totally worked out so good for us. It's it's those little the little, tiny details. So I probably would even whisper that to myself, like probably in the summer, like he's in the little He's in the little things. God cares about the little things.
00:36:54
Speaker 2: So that brings us to you potentially, I think a good transition. Yeah, which is your transition? And so you know you talked about that. I mean you've been you said it. You've been in the Christian media space for a long time, right, like like I think at least two successful podcasts and now you're you're like, I decided I'm going to be a flight attendant for a major airline. You've as we're as we're recording this, you've just kind of gotten through the bulk of your your training and now you're starting. I'm curious what went into that decision. We'll be right back after this.
00:37:39
Speaker 1: Oh it's so funny. And when we were talking before, like to linen it all up. It's like, oh man, God cares out all the little details. Because I applied for this job in June, in the middle, in the middle of like what I can look back now almost eight months later and be like, oh, that started to work with me in June. I mean he started working me back whatever. But like in June, this was a really intentional like that's a mile marker for me. I call it an ebenezer if you will. Yep, that's what it is, and so and so that's it's really interesting. But my sister's apply to sendant and so I've seen her kind of have this really fun life and I've I've also seen the really hard parts of it for her. And my husband and I talked about it for a long time, like, oh man, I would love to do that. And he's a shift worker, and he's like, it's not the time. It's not the time. And then I was like, hey, they're opening applications on the twenty It was the twenty sixth of June. They're opening applications on the twenty six Like, I kind of want to apply, knowing absolutely knowing it takes multiple times to apply for an airline, Like, what are the odds I get at this first round? Like I'll have to apply the next time they open. But it's a good like, it's a good start, like you have to get your foot in the door first. And now I feel a little bit like Ellwood's like, but like it's hard because.
00:39:07
Speaker 2: Because that thank you Millennials, thank you yes.
00:39:11
Speaker 1: And so that was in June. That was my sober month. I moved our first kid. I moved our daughter to high school. She's at a residential high school. I moved her to high school. We moved my oldest to college, and then we just kind of sat still for a bit. And in aviation, no news is good news, and so we just waited and waited and waited and waited. And then in September I got an email that was like, okay, I'm one way interview cool, and then in person interview in October YEP, and I was like, okay, We've going to training in June and and g anuway, I was like, oh, Like it's just the longest process in the world. But God was refining so much of me during those months, those months of waiting. It's almost like the wilderness you know, we're just kind of like in the middle of it all, just trying to like, this will be cool if it happens, and if not, like I'm sure there's another way. So I was kind of presenting that. But still I think I was a bad podcaster last year. I think I'm trying to remember how many podcasts episodes I actually put out because I could sense a change and I was getting a little bit better within the industry. To be totally honest with you, what do you mean, I was just getting frustrated. I was getting to the point where it's like I'm having these people on my shows multiple times, Like I've sat down and had these conversations with you twice now, and you're like, oh, it's nice to meet you, and it's like we've actually met before. Like I was just getting frustrated, like it was only media to them, it wasn't connection. And that's not to say that's for everybody. I like Laura, you said, like Laura Smith, Laura is one of my greatest online friends. I adore her, and she's so intentional with people. But not everybody is Laura. And so when you just feel like you are a media stop for them, and not an actual connection. And I got into this space to make connections, to connect listeners to these people, to to bring like like there was so much more like hope in my like Starry Little Eyes eight ten years ago, and so I just I kind of lost the luster for it and I was like, this is so much work and I do it all myself, and I just yeah, and I think yeah, and I think that that for me, it was really the Lord like ushering me out, ushering me into this change, and that's not for everybody. God might be like hold, like stay, and that's beautiful, but for me, I was like itching to change, like I just like I could, I like even just wiggling about it, like I felt like something different was coming and I had no idea what it was. And I'm still editing and producing, so I still have like my job in this space, and I don't want to do my job in this space, you know, like I don't want to show up and be a podcaster or anymore. So I just really wrestling with it and really struggling. And then and then I just stopped podcasting like I was under contract, and I was like I just don't want to do it anymore, and they were like, okay, whenever, like whenever you have a feeling, jump back behind the mic, and I did like here and there, and I'd be like, okay, I'm back now by sorry about that. And then it was like one episode and I just I just couldn't do it anymore like to And that's so I told my my network. I was like, I just to go sit behind a mic is a real big struggle for me. And they're like, okay, we'll keep creating content like just just do do you And it's like okay, and that freedom really set me free, like and then I you know, like even that wiggling I was doing, I felt like a cocoon, Like it felt like I don't know what's coming, but something's coming. And then in June it was like, well, maybe it'll be this, but if it's not, then I'll continue. I'll continue doing what I do behind behind the computer, but no longer behind the microphone. And yeah, this is my first time behind the microphone in a while. So it's really sweet and it's it's fun. I just I just lost like the passion for for myself and I have listeners that reach out to me and that's really fun. But what people don't understand that podcasting is it's very lonely because you sit down and you and I connect and that's amazing, right, But then you like throw it out there and you're like, hope.
00:43:27
Speaker 2: It hits and you never you know, I tell people reach out to me all the time. Yeah and.
00:43:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's rare.
00:43:35
Speaker 2: I rarely hear back from you guys. I mean, you'll comment on on clips and stuff like that, but I'm not getting like I'm not getting a ton of emails every episode, you know.
00:43:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's so then there's that like, well, are you doing it for you? Are you doing it for the people. It's like, I'm paying for the people. But it is nice to have it out a boy.
00:43:55
Speaker 2: Everyonce you generally hear you dally hear like you know, hey, you're like and the person that emailed me this actually you know didn't wasn't mean by it, but he's like, hey, can you like interview more men? You know, like, can you find more men that are willing to be radically vulnerable because right now it's all the women.
00:44:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, that's very true. Any like they if somebody told me one time, say a similar to the situation like, well, we only hear from you, only hear from like moms. And it's like if you look on you know, online space, a lot of people who are doing like influencing work or writing work or moms like every like it's I can't control who's out there, Like if you want to do you want to give me a list. So it's so that's kind of that. That was kind of where like the pivot from like from not being behind the microphone kind of started last year and then kind of owning more of like the social media space for myself and then the pivot of like, oh, oh I actually got this job. Oh I I have to go do this now, and the fact that it likes and in June probably hasn't really hit me until today, where I was like, oh, because I can tell like there was a couple of miles, like the no drinking in June, I started hitting the gym better, like more consistently and was like really intentional with the gym and my food and then and time for for this job. Like all that happened in June, and that's not lost on me now probably probably might might have been lost on me. So yeah, that's kind of the pivot. And now now the thing that I like, like the thing that people have mentioned to me most, and I just didn't really think about it until, like you said it today too, But pivoting. Pivoting is wild, and I was really embarrassed to pivot. I was really ask yeah, because because it's because media.
00:45:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, like we're we're like, I feel like you have to. And I have a writer's group that Laura's in, yeah, where we talk about this all the time, like you have to have this combination of obviously authenticity, but then there's like how are you feeding the algorithm and how are you doing stuff? And then to just all of a sudden, and I'm not saying you've given it all up completely, like you're still posting stuff, but yeah, I'm curious, explain that a little bit more.
00:46:16
Speaker 1: I think it my my path wasn't going the right direction anymore. Like I wasn't getting the book deal, I was getting turned down. I wasn't growing the way I thought I should be growing. I my numbers were fine, my podcast is great, but it just was like same thing every week, and so I just felt stagnant in that. And so then to pivot was really embarrassing because it's like, well, did I fail?
00:46:44
Speaker 2: Like is this right?
00:46:46
Speaker 1: Like like if I pivot like this, is that a failure? And I still probably wrestle with that, like the aspect of that a little bit. But at the same time, like I just I people. The thing I've had to tell myself is people new jobs all the time, like and before social media happened, like my mom switched careers in her forties, Like it's not it's not a wild thing. And then even just talking to my younger friends and like a lot of them are entrepreneurs and they're like, man, I'm gonna have to start a new job in my forties. And I'm like, hi, guys, like literally me, and they're like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And then I have a friend and she's she's got younger kids right now, and she's like, I am just so thankful that you're doing this because you're showing us moms with younger kids that there's life after this. And I was like, Oh, if that can be the beacon of hope for somebody that like that, like once she send your kids a way to college, your life isn't over, like for sure, that's the beacon. I want to be, like, yeah, that you can follow the Lord into the next season of life and it not be terrible, Like, yeah, that's exactly that's exactly what I would be. So so I've had to like look at those aspects and nobody was like, I can't believe you are stopping your podcast. You're not You're not serving us anymore. It's like nobody has said that to me. So I don't feel like a failure. I just am excited to lean in and show people The Lord in a totally different way now. And and if I'm being honest, I think podcasting is changing. I think I think you're doing a video podcast. You know that the media meaningam is changing. If we go back, yeah, no, if you go back forty years ago, video killed the radio star. Like so so you think about like you have to evolve and you have to do it. And it's like I just I just wasn't willing to chase that rabbit anymore. Mmm.
00:48:40
Speaker 2: I like that chase right because I think that your use of that word, because I think it's important and it's something that I'm constantly having to check myself in my heart on, like Lord am I chasing and that try for the right reasons, right, like, and listen, you know I talk about this a little bit in my book, but I say, you know, people think it's such an indictment to say you preach against your worst sin, And I'm like, no, absolutely you do because you know it intimately. So why do I struggle and have to unfollow people that I feel like are striving Because it's it's such a pull of my heart, right yeah, it's such like the performance, the the performance. Like no, I'm not saying like you know, I'm acting, but like where I have to achieve, Like that's a pull of my heart that I need to guard against, right, I have not Why would.
00:49:31
Speaker 1: We not make his perfect? His his his? What is it like he's perfect? Car of weaknesses? Like why would why would I not? Like I can't talk about this because it's my struggle, right well, he's made perfect of this, right yes, you say numbers?
00:49:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like I haven't looked at sales numbers for my latest book once. I haven't asked for them. I haven't checked Amazon author page. I haven't you know, my my first book, I go do and speaking engagement or I do a podcast Integram looking like, oh, do that get a bump? And again, you don't make money off of being especially a Christian author, right, So it wasn't like I was looking at that for how much money did I make? It was did it land? Did it hit? Did I say something like? And what I found myself is that strivings?
00:50:16
Speaker 1: Right?
00:50:16
Speaker 2: So when you use that word chasing, it's like I get that. I get that totally. And I do have so much respect for you for saying you know, like maybe there's some elements of that, and it's just I'm just not there anymore. Like it's just and I owe that we would all have the guts to evaluate whatever we're doing, whatever job, whatever, you know, anything, your kids' sports. Are you in it more for yourself than you are for them? And if so, man, let's have a pivot moment. You know. I look back thought your journey, right, especially with alcohol, and you've talked about now seeing this correlation to June, and I wonder, have you had to one of the things that I've had to learn since giving up alcohol, And for me, I had to give it up completely, right because I say, the only drink I can say no to is the first one. I've tried to do what you've done, and I respect you, and I celebrate that. My wife is like you, she can have one drink. And I'm like, I don't understand it, or even if I don't understand it, or even if I was able to understand it, I just can't stop. And I look back and I realize one of the things I didn't know or learn or understand how to do was to grieve well. And I am curious, did you have to grieve at all? Kind of like I'm putting this season to bed and I'm going to move into this new season, and do you see kind of any correlation with now, Hey, I don't have my coping mechanism is gone, so now now I truly do have to grieve it, Like was there any aspect of that in your story?
00:52:11
Speaker 1: You feel like I love to use the word grief because grief is such a such a pal of mine, Like I'm known grief my entire life. I can't I candidly or casually say like grief is. Grief has been a friend of mine since I was four years old when my bileace go dad passed away. And I've known grief every season of every stage, every major stage of my life, i've lost somebody, so I just know grief. Well, that doesn't mean I walk with him, well, but I know I don't. But yeah, we're pals, but I don't like them sometimes. So I think that there was this level of maybe not grief, but of example, because I have kids who are going to enter the drinking age soon, and I'm not an idiot. I know that they drink. So a little bit of it was I want to be able to to show them that it won it's okay to have just one drink, that like that's enough. And two I wanted them to see me turn drinks down because I wanted them to see that that is okay as well, or to understand that like not every drink has to every every opportunity to drink has to be like a rager and all out, like like party they have seen, they have seen they've not seen at all because it's not like our house like this party house, but like we hosted a party for a friend, and and they saw, they saw the abundance, but they also saw the people who were like sitting back being like, oh my god, our friends are so stupid and so I think that there's there's beauty for me. It was the lesson of how can I expect them to learn from me if I'm not willing to be an example. So there wasn't necessarily the grief in them. And then I'm even thinking about like travel, like now that I travel, and now that I'm like meeting people. One of my best friends in training, we were sitting at the restaurant and I was like, I'm in the good glass side, would you like anything? And he said, I don't drink, And so like the next like two days later, I was like, Okay, now that we have developed a friendship, I'm going to ask you like why, like why don't you drink? And so it's just so fascinating to see and hear people's stories in there. And if I can add just a glimmer of hope into someone's story, then that's all that. That's that's why we show up online, right like just those little glimmers. So to answer your question, I don't feel like I had grief there. I feel like I had I had a chip on my shoulder that I needed to teach my kids. Mmm.
00:54:44
Speaker 2: Interesting, What are you most excited for in this next season.
00:54:52
Speaker 1: This is what the Lord is teaching me, and I'm an amazing friend. And she called me the other day and she's like, what's God teaching you? And I was like, honestly, I feel like it's been pretty chill, but that as I'm like talking about it, I'm like, Oh, the Lord is teaching me so much. I'm really excited to be alone. And that's a really hard thing for a mom of three and a wife of twenty years to say, because I don't know alone, Like I don't know that because I'm never alone. And as my kids have left, like I was like my senior high school, he's always gone. And my husband's, like I said, work tonights often. But I can always call a friend, I can always feel that time. I can always kind of like find that. But there was times last weekend that I was exploring alone and I thought, oh, if I didn't like like myself enough right now, this would be really hard. And if I wasn't like learning how to explore on my own. Note, Jesse's great and he sends me like to go go here and you will like these things. So he's a great little tour guide from Afar. But that is what I'm excited about I'm excited to really get to know me in a new season and next week a new decade, to to really hone like what God has created.
00:56:05
Speaker 2: Mm. Would you do anything differently about that season that you walked through the decision? Anything?
00:56:16
Speaker 1: I really like that you asked me about, like why I kept it a secret and I probably would have been a little bit more vulnerable. I probably would have like maybe even posted about it, like hey, I'm not drinking this month or something along those lines to give people more thought to it. I think I think that I never want people to think I'm struggling, Like that's like a send struggle for me, Like I want people to think I'm okay, call that the pastors skidded me every side. So I think that there's a little bit of that, But I also think that there's there There was just probably a little bit of lack of vulnerability, and I think I probably could have stepped into that a little bit better.
00:56:57
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. What do you think it is? You You've kind of wanted to this a little bit too, Like you said this earlier that you know, alcohol and drinking is kind of that one issue that ever, you know, if you were eating seven donuts. And I think especially even even in Christian culture, like even in the Christian space and you've been in the Christian space for a long time. I was meeting with a guy recently and he's like, we went on a family vacation and like with extended family. He's like, I was just it was so eye opening. Here I am surrounded by people all who are professing Christians and they're like, well, we're on vacation. And he's like, and it was just you know, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drin, drin, drink drink. And he's like, I just what you know, And I'm like, welcome to my world, right, Like like part of what I'm what I'm what has opened my eyes too. But I'm just curious why you think that is, because it seems like you've seen that too. We'll be right back after this.
00:58:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's just I don't even know, like part of me, part of me is like, well, wine was in the Bible, so it's totally okay with us. But there's there's definitely this like line of it's it's almost all or nothing. And that's why I kind of like being like, no, I still I still drink, like like yeah, I just know that there's not an abund I don't want abundance there because I grew up Southern Baptist and my dad said, you'll never become an alcoholic if you don't take the first drink. And that's true. It's a very true statement. It's also very fearful.
00:58:35
Speaker 2: Yes if I'm and it's not biblical to not like meaning it's not like someone tried to come at me with that. I'm like, get out of here. No, yeah, drinking is not prohibit in the Bible.
00:58:46
Speaker 1: Sorry. Yeah, So I think and I think people are well drunkennesses and it's like okay, well drunkenness happens in different stages for all of us. Like it's I don't think drunkenness means it when it says like do not be about I don't think that that's like slashing, you know, like like all that. I think that there is a level of like when you know that you have had too much of anything. But I think that it becomes a it's a it's a it's an okay sin. For us, it's an okay, it's an okay cope and I don't, and I I don't know why. I don't know why it is and I and I think that people will come back to like, well, each of our convictions are different. And it's like, right, so what are your convictions? Like where are you convicted? Because if you're not convicted anywhere, good Lord, tell me tell me more, Like like I didn't, I would love to know how you breached closeness with God in this. So that's my sassy side a little bit. But it is interesting that it's just it's it's one of those things where uh, I think it was an online post that said, like compared not drinking to like eating a tub of mayonnaise, Like you're not eating mayonnaise? Why aren't you leading this mayonnaise? And it's like and it's like, well, that's disgusting. That's a bad for you. It's not good for you, it's not good for your body. Oh my god, I can't believe you wouldn't happens. It's funny because it's like, we know the alcohol is bad for us. It's the one thing that we will shame people in our life if they're not doing it. Yeah, So I don't know, I wish I wish I had a better answer. It's just it's it's boggling. It's mind boggling.
01:00:28
Speaker 2: If if someone is listening to this and they are where you were last June, what's your what's your piece of advice to them? Mm hmm.
01:00:42
Speaker 1: I would say follow follow the conviction, like trace that line down, because I think when we have that hint of like something's not right here, that's obviously the HOI Spirit and I love and I'm so thankful that Holy Spirit was like attentive to me even when I was really mad at them, and I think when we when we kind of oh gosh. Stephen Ferdick uh Sat had a sermon many many years ago about like taking every thought captive and how it's like an actual prisoner of war, like like take it so seriously. That's what I would do. I would I would in my in my podcast or brain I would take it like a true crime documentary and like and like follow followed the line, like where where did where is this? Where's this? Like pinndat okay, now why is it here? Now? Where did it go from there? And really just get to the bottom of it, because I feel like if I had done that sooner and really got to the bottom of it, I wouldn't have needed that like heart on the ground moment in October.
01:01:52
Speaker 2: Mmmm, that's good, And I just want to remind people like well, to that point, I'll say this, curiosity, I think is one of the most important aspects of any type of growth and healing and whatnot. And I think that is I think that's what you're getting at, is curiosity, and so like, I love that. I love that follow the line, like you know, you have your white board and you're like, Okay, this leads to this, this leads to this, this is to this, and I think that's so important. So thank you for sharing that. At this point in the interview is where I would usually say to my guest, if people want to learn more about you and read what you're doing, and you know, follow your podcast, then where can they go. But since you have decided, you know what, I'm not going to strive, I'm not going to do that. I'll I'll not do that and not put you on the spot, but I guess I will say that if people want to see you, they should just book you. You don't want to say the airline, because I get it. Right, So I'll just say book on one of your major carriers.
01:03:10
Speaker 1: No, but also come follow me on social media. I'm at Jeanet freaking Cap on Instagram and TikTok and I have a newsletter that goes out once a month.
01:03:17
Speaker 2: And so you're still doing some stuff.
01:03:20
Speaker 1: I am, I am, I'm totally sometimes. Yeah, content, content is still still there. Social media is is my main kind of focus. But my newsletter is I say, like the social media is like the backyard party where everyone's kind of like milling around and hanging out. Like the newsletter is when you come in and it's like you have coffee with me, so you get like you get like the depth of my heart there, which which is really sweet and I love I love my my newsletter and it's got lots of cool freezies there and yeah, check that out. It's I can I can send you a link for that. But yeah, it's a it's a fun place. So I'm still I'm totally doing stuff. I'm just not focused on podcasting.
01:04:04
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for your vulnerability today, thank you for being open. And I just know there's gonna be people that are encouraged and if you are reach out to me and Jeanette, and let us know, give us that.
01:04:19
Speaker 1: We just want to pat on the back, just need a little.
01:04:23
Speaker 2: You know, I was teaching my kids. You know, my son who's eight, you know, he's on baseball team. And he walked by me and and I give him a little pat on the butt in a good way. He's like, what was that for. I said, it's called a good game, so we need a virtual good game. So I appreciate that.
01:04:40
Speaker 1: This is great. I appreciate you.
01:04:44
Speaker 2: I didn't have a drinking problem. I had a problem with my drinking. Listen, if you're hearing this, you do not have to wait for alcohol, food, porn, work, whatever to destroy your life before you make a decision to get curious about it. And especially if you're a Christian, your calling is to make war on the idols in your life, right, like John Owen, be killing sin or it will be killing you. And I think maybe it's hard for some of you to realize that a thing that you're not that doesn't look so bad can be sinful. But James talks about that anything the Lord convicts us to do and we don't do it as sin, and I think that can be the hardest, And I wish that I would have heeded that call that's stirring sooner. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. It would have saved me a lot of pain, would have saved my wife and my family a lot of pain and heartache. Remember, the Gospel is an early warning detection system, Like before the world will ever say you have a problem with something, the Gospel is revealing it and Jesus is not gonna get your heart. And that's what I want to encourage you about. Like that's my goal with this podcast and what I do. So I just I appreciate Jeanette so much. I appreciate her honesty, heretical vulnerability. Go ahead and follow her on Instagram. It's kind of fun to watch her her flight attendant videos and you kind of get to go behind the scenes and see what that is. Like I've always been fascinated by that. My wife at some point, like her dream was always to be a flight attendant, like and who knows, like maybe in retirement she will be one because she just loves to travel. She loves that idea and and so I you know, maybe that's part of the extra fascination. But I think it's I think it's so cool again. I know I said at the beginning, but but please visit Veritasrecovery dot org if you find any heart to maybe just throw five bucks to help us keep going and keep creating resources. We have an exciting series coming out with Right Now Media called We're All Addicted to Something that will come out September eighth. It's slated September eighth, twenty twenty six, and man, I can't wait for you to see it, And there'll be ways even if you don't have access to right now Media you'll be able to see it as well. Love you all so much. Shoot me an email, let me know how you're doing. We'll see you here next week.
