Joel Crampton: Welcome to CMOs Without Borders. I'm Joel Crampton, I help financial advisors, RIAs, and wealth managers replace scattered marketing with strategic systems that boost AUM and production volume.
Mandy: I'm Mandy McPhee. I am a fractional chief marketing officer and work with founders who are doing too much and need someone to turn their scattered marketing into a system that actually drives results.
Joel: Welcome to another episode of CMOs Without Border. Today's guest is someone that I've known for a little over a year now, Mark Schaefer. Mark is a CFP, he's a financial advisor, he's one of the leaders at his firm, Seriously Financial. He's really active in the community, has written a book called One for All, which is about building stronger relationships systematically by just basically helping others. So kind of having that servant mentality. So I'm really excited to dig into his. career, his book, everything he's building at CRC and everything else he's got going on around his life. So welcome Mark.
Marc Shaffer: Thanks for having me. yeah, it's a couple months ago I celebrated twenty years at this firm. So I feel like I'm mid career, so I am qualified enough to give some advice now, right?
Joel: I hope so. Yeah. I didn't check your qualifications before I invited you, but I knew you enough personally.
Marc Shaffer: It's all good.
Joel: I was like, he's probably a decent guy.
Marc Shaffer: Fair, fair.
Mandy: Ha ha ha.
Joel: But I definitely wanted to bring up first of all your book One for All, which I've got a copy here. it's a really fun read and it actually motivating me to write my own book. And then Mandy, I know has written her own book. So this is a a book for bibliophiles, people who want to learn more about networking. maybe we can get into how you wrote the book. But really what I'd love to ask you first, Mark, is why did you decide to write a book? I think a lot of financial advisors have that thought of maybe I should write a book. I've got a lot of experience, but kind of what what was the genesis of you wanting to write a book?
Marc Shaffer: mine was I like new challenges and part of one of what I don't or haven't liked until after the book was writing. So if I'm gonna
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: lean into things I don't like, that's one way to do it. Write a whole book about it, right? Not just a blog. But it was more of a response to a question on you should be documenting what's working for you so that you can teach other people. internally.
Mandy: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: So kind of it was a the internal process for how we're developing relationships, staying in contact with people and not doing it. off the cuff, meaning there's a process to it, and there you do this next, you do this next. And not that everybody is in a process, but if there's a process, things don't slip through the cracks, people get similar experiences. And instead of wondering what's next, it's built like in a month you do this. the trick and I guess I would say science about it is the authenticity about it, right? If everything's a process, then you're not authentic. So
Joel: Yeah. Uh-huh.
Marc Shaffer: when I try to create a process, it's not a one page check the box thing. It's a culture built around helping people. And the easiest way if you read the book, it's not just the process, it's stories and things that have worked for me personally along the way. That it's kind of like if I would have known what I did when I was three years in the business, wouldn't pay off till 13 years of the business, I might have
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: focused on more of the activities like that. So it's the activities for other team members to focus on that result in good friends, relationships, business, people that pay you to do what you do, and it doesn't have to be financial planning. That just happens to be how how I monetize the relationships. But even doctors have read it for Bedside Manor, like how do you be a good person?
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: so for what it's worth, it's it is about relationships.
Mandy: So then Mark, you know, your book sounds a little bit of a cross between a standard operating procedure as well as relationship and networking advice for your team as well. What's the biggest lesson that you're teaching in your book?
Marc Shaffer: I I had a avatar for who I was actually writing to when I worked with my writing coach. And I think the lesson for them is actually someone on my team that I met with every other week to say, like, what am I not thinking? Because I want you to be the person getting all the value. The the lesson is patience. Like when someone
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: sees things happening, they don't they think, that just happened overnight, not the thing that happened 13 years
Joel: Mm.
Marc Shaffer: ago or three months ago. And sometimes it happens faster. But the younger person demographic and people that we're adding to our team that I want to learn this stuff quicker than maybe I learned from it, don't understand that you can start today, but you might not have results. And so your future self is going to say, worry about the activities now, because the results will come. And we're not we're not a a firm that expects sales. So we're not producing salespeople, which is the what I think of as the old financial planning industry was a sales industry. It's a it's a helping industry. Like help people
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: get what they want.
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: And then you're top of mind when what they want or need ends up being financial planning, but you've helped them with a number of things beforehand.
Mandy: Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Joel and I often talk a lot about trust in financial services, trust in the business that you're in and financial planning, and that you're selling you're selling trust. Your trust is your product. It's not necessarily the investments that you're buying into. As you build those relationships, that's part of selling that trust and being part of that trust system. Can you talk a little bit about? How you tie that in?
Marc Shaffer: I would say I I go about trust is good, but how do you earn it? And one of the things that I talk about is consistency, right?
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: And then always and this is getting harder the busier I get, the more that you know, you take on more relationships, clients, business life, I have kids now and a family, it's harder. But if you have a process around it and a system
Joel: Yeah, mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: for checks and balances, things don't slip through the cracks. And so
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: I oddly enough in my industry, if you just deliver on what you're promising or Let's say I meet with someone, I'm gonna do these three things that have nothing to do with financial planning. Most people walk away from those networking or coffees or just warm meetings, n expecting nothing. So if you
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: deliver on everything you just said, it's simple things, automatically the trust starts building. And it doesn't have to be to earn it for financial planning, but the whole premise of the book is hand it out in slices and it comes back in loaves. And I don't want that to be meant in money, it can be friendship, it can be life contentment. But there's something to be said, like just do what you say you're going to do. But if that's hard for you, find a way to have an accountability and systems and that's what the book is about too.
Mandy: Yeah. And
Joel: Yeah, I think you you definitely need those systems and processes in place to scale anything in your life, to make it repeatable,
Marc Shaffer: Yes.
Joel: to keep track. We're all so busy. We need some sort of system to keep track of everything. What system do you use to track all that? Because I know I've been I've been in your system. I've gotten your feedback and your responses. And so I know there's a system, like an engine running behind that. Can you tell me like the specific tool and why you chose that one? Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, it's continued to evolve. and the timelines associated with things have continued to evolve. We've used Salesforce for years, but I I haven't moved into the next system of AI automating stuff, the agents.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I mean, we we're looking into this, so maybe in two months I'll have a different story for you. But
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: accountability with your team, like I can't be all things to all people. So what part of this process can someone else do? And when I do one part it it it the next step goes automatically to someone else to do that. years ago, I read a book called Giftology. So I'm also a big fan of surprising and delighting people, which also
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: is is not about trust. It's about developing I I really care about you, you know what I'm saying? Like I listened to the fact that your dog is having a hard time and fighting its own sickness. Like that doesn't matter for furthering financial planning, but it matters that you listened and you did something about what you heard. so that's a good book by John Rulin. Giftology is another one I've added to a culture and what we're trying to build internally here too.
Mandy: Say though that listening, caring, all of the things that you're doing is all about building trust with your clients, earning, not building, earning trust with your clients. And as soon as one thing fails in there and breaks, you're also breaking that trust, and it's harder to get that back.
Marc Shaffer: yeah.
Mandy: so the relationships that you talk about is is part of the business building that you're doing as well.
Marc Shaffer: I'll admit this is it's also delegation of what you're best at. And I
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: heard you say it earlier, Mandy, like my focus happens to be more on relationship now. And it's even less now about the financial planning detailed work, but we have people that like that more than the relationship building. And so it's been that's all about scalability. Now there's me that gets to focus on what I love and what I thrive in, and someone else that focuses on something else. but yes, that it happened, it works to have. Great people doing what they're best at, playing to their strengths.
Mandy: When did you decide that you needed to scale mark? At one point in your business that you you decided, hey, I just need to focus on the relationship and somebody else can do all the back end paperwork, the financial planning and all
Marc Shaffer: Joel didn't mention this at the beginning. We have a second company called ALOS Investment Advisors and that was created two thousand ten. it is intended for bringing financial planning and investment management to the masses, and that was about the time that the RoboAdvisor came around. And if
Mandy: Mm.
Marc Shaffer: you're bringing highly things that take a lot of time and scale, you you have to be very efficient. And instead of what the rest of the market was doing over the last fifty years of well, we just helped wealthier people, we were Bucking that trend and realizing that there is a service model that can be had, it still can be profitable so long as tech continues to be able to leverage that and scalability happens. So when we created ALOS and we found, wow, people are willing to do that and there's not as much profit or revenue in there, but our mission is to do it. So regardless of that, we want to do it. That's when we decided we needed to become very efficient to serve that market. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.
Mandy: Nice. Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it does. Well, let me let me finish up the discussion on the book. I want to do a shout out to the team at Share Your Story, which I know we we actually had
Marc Shaffer: yeah, I could talk about that too.
Joel: yeah, we had we had Will on our podcast last year. so it was that was a great discussion about the the book writing journey and why so many financial advisors kind of do the past. So if anybody's listening wants to go check out that episode, they can. I don't remember when it was, sometime in fall of two thousand twenty five, maybe.
Marc Shaffer: If you do show notes, I wrote a blog about my wonderful experience with them and the writing coach that I got assigned to that talked through the process. I
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: loved it enough to do it again. And for anybody thinking about writing a book, I hated it. I got through it and then I committed to trying to create more content for my website. So blogs, like fifteen hundred words and less. That seemed so simple. And for the rest of the year last year, after I wrote the manuscript, I was writing like one a week. And if you can do that and feel the I started feeling the positive impacts of sharing what I wrote content wise and getting, you know, the likes are one thing, but then SEO around and a random person reaches out because they were touched by something you said. So it's like this positive reinforcement. So you want to write again and you want to write again. And so I'm in that phase and enjoying it. but you gotta get over that, I guess, my mindset of hating writing, and I and I did
Joel: His name.
Marc Shaffer: through the book. so but of course, you know. Through writing more, you learn not that AI writes it, but it gets over writing blocks, right? And if it's a marketing thing, like that's what you're talking about, we use a note taker to take notes in all of our meetings now. It's called jump. Most advisors are using some form of that.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Marc Shaffer: But it's very interesting to use that, create analytics on the overarching themes of what's being discussed across multiple meetings, of which I might not be in, but if it's
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: coming up ten times in ten different meetings. It sounds like something that people might search for, create some content and SEO around it, and that's what you're writing about. I will also admit I enjoy writing about nothing that has to do with financial planning. Book reviews, leadership, travel,
Joel: Of course. Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: life, because people also are seeking that in financial advisors and people they trust, right? So most of mine are fun to write because it's not about how you do a Roth conversion, which is also important. So be
Mandy: Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: a be real, be a person. That's how people find you and can relate to you.
Mandy: So one thing you can try, Mark, to capture your voice in your writing when using AI is to take all of your meeting notes and ask it to do a voice guideline for you. Tone, manner, the way you talk, so that when it spits out your writing, it already has that voice guideline. for you to use and it should write more accurately to your voice and it'll be materials that you you really enjoy and like.
Marc Shaffer: So I am not our compliance and I am not our what else am I tech, but your timing on saying this is interesting. I used Chat GPT for a long time. We're transitioning yesterday, so I have co-pilot, which syncs security-wise to knowing my email that is
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I don't understand the words, close model, so I can do more of that and copy
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: meeting notes into things to do exactly
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: what you're saying. so
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: even though I feel like I'm moving forward on some tech. that will move forward a lot further in regards to what you're saying. So I'm excited about diving in.
Mandy: Yeah, yeah, that's exciting. your book is also rich with content as well. Once you write a book, my gosh, you can leverage
Marc Shaffer: That's true.
Mandy: all of that content for your blogs and articles, repurpose it. It gives you a wealth of content to write about weekly.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: Yep. And even when I was working with my writing coach, they'd say, You need a better hook or you need a better story and I'd tr copy and paste what I'd written so far. It says, Ask me questions that might make me think of a story that
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: I'm otherwise just it's in here, but I can't pull
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: it out. And ten questions go,
Mandy: Nice.
Marc Shaffer: yeah, I have something to say about that, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mandy: Yeah, yeah, nice.
Joel: And sh shout out to Jessica. I know she's the writing coach, right? That you were mentioning. Yeah. She's actually helping one of my clients, another financial advisor client that I have, write a write his book too. So talking about experts, bringing in people that are better at what you do. I mean, that's why people bring in financial advisors to help them build the financial plan. So I they bring in marketing professionals such as Manny and myself. So yeah, I think just we're we're we're talking about bringing in those experts to fill in the gaps where your knowledge areas are lighter. So anything anything else you want talk about from a system systemizing kindness? Yeah.
Mandy: Joel, why do you Joel yeah yeah, yeah, I got a question for you, Joel.
Marc Shaffer: Yes.
Mandy: Why do you think yeah, why do you think that so many financial advisors and financial planners are writing their own books right now?
Joel: Well, lots of reasons. probably the biggest one is it's a marketing tool. I mean it's it's an easy giveaway. it's probably the reason a lot of these reasons the same that we wrote our own books, mainly, is what showcases us as experts in whatever particular area we're writing about. Typically it has some sort of conversation about financial advising and planning and so they wanna share that kind of expertise, but they also have their own unique story to tell. Like you were saying, Mark, their your own unique spin, their own unique experiences that want they want to bring in. And that's what helped shape them and their career, but also the firm that they've built. And they want to make sure that the people that they are working with understand, the genesis of their firm and why they think the way they do, why they invest the way they do, why they develop plans in that way. That so I think those you marketing, telling the story. You know, people like to create legacies for themselves. so that's also a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, I I gave my kids my I gave
Marc Shaffer: My hope is that my kids read my book someday. Yes. Yes. Legacy for planting seeds for good kids.
Mandy: Yeah.
Joel: Yeah. I gave my kids a copy of my book too, and they quickly put it on the shelf and didn't open it. And then I I even showed it showed the dedication page, you know, I dedicate this to my kids, whatever. They're like, Okay, cool, dad. Just it's like it's the last thing they want to do is read a book when they're in in high school.
Marc Shaffer: It's
Joel: No.
Marc Shaffer: the funnest part about it is my wife, I don't think she's read it. Bridget, if you're listening
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: to this, you should still read it because some people are like this is a great book and they tell my wife
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: and she's like, it is great. No. But I back to your question, Mandy, is it's trust. So when I meet with someone for the first time but they know I've written or they've read it, like they've read the whole book.
Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: And the very important part with anything in marketing, as you know, is it's gotta match you. Like if you wrote this wonderful book but it doesn't bring out who you really are, or you have a website that's great but it's not who you are, like
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: if all of it lines up with confirming what they already have, the trust is further already.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: It's a it works for that a lot.
Mandy: Yes. Yeah. It builds up an authority. that builds up trust. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And and on
Marc Shaffer: Whether they've read it or not too.
Joel: Yeah.
Mandy: that note, my kids are a little bit older than Joel's.
Joel: No.
Mandy: they're young adults. They've all read my book. My husband's read it. My mother in law has read it. My sister in laws have read it. The only person that hasn't read it is my parents. So I I think there's always somebody in the family that hasn't read your book.
Marc Shaffer: Yep. My dad did read it. I yes. Yes.
Mandy: Ha
Marc Shaffer: Yep, that's true. Fair.
Joel: Good. all right. L let's shift conversation to podcasting. We're on a podcast. so Mark, I know you're a frequent contributor to the four o'clock somewhere podcast. It used to be five o'clock.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Joel: so you tell us a little bit about of of kind of why you started that podcast, you know, what what did you hope it was gonna accomplish? What did you what have you learned through the process? I've it's been on for a while. I've been listening to it ever since I've known you.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah. Yeah, like anything else, it's consistency. But the way that this podcast came about was I was having happy hours with an accountability partner who started a podcast business.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: And I was like, we should just take our happy hours live. We're talking about good people, life, leadership, and whatever comes to mind. Turns out some people might listen to it. But like anything else, people can get a taste of who you are by sometimes I have a coffee meeting and they've listened to an episode on the drive
Joel: No.
Marc Shaffer: to meet with me. And there's already this feeling like they know you before they've had any conversation with you.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: But mine was a back and forth over time for should I start my own? And I'm like, that sounds like a lot of work.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: if you if you and also I thought, it'd just be me talking for 30 minutes. No, the open dialogues like this, very easy to talk about things. I we haven't done where we bring a guest on. It's just Jeff Palacio and I talking
Joel: Was it?
Marc Shaffer: openly about things. but it was in in an effort to support him to jumpstart his is his business, let's do this together. And it his corporate couch podcast has taken off. He has some wonderful
Joel: Yeah, yeah.
Marc Shaffer: guests, even better than me, on his podcast. But hi ours are nothing like his ours are just fun conversations as as
Joel: Uh-huh.
Marc Shaffer: as if we're having AVR.
Joel: Yeah. And again, it brings more of that authenticity, like you were saying. It it shows you the r I mean, you can't hide behind the camera. Like you're literally showing who you are, your personality, how you speak. you know, we can do a lot on the editing, on the production side, on the back end to make us sound better, but people still get a lot of the authentic you kind of you know dives into that book conversation. So like you're just showing another channel, another way that you're showcasing your expertise and being your own authentic self and bringing about your stories. And that's what makes you you versus another financial advisor, another marketing person down the road.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, I it's I I can't decide if there's business that comes directly from it, but neither could that be said about my book. What I
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: tell people it's a series of everything you're doing that
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: helps and contributes. it's a number of touches, it's how you've introduced them, it's listing on a podcast. But everything you do as it relates to the book and a podcast should filter down to social media, if that's your LinkedIn or
Joel: Amen.
Marc Shaffer: or Facebook. It just gives you more things to be sharing, which in and
Joel: We did.
Marc Shaffer: of itself is worthy of staying in front of people. So I've I've leaned into that. I really like social media too.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so many advisors that I work with want to start podcasts, and it is a lot of work. I've got a couple that I'm building podcasts for, and it's just kind of one of those things, like it's it's a lot of work, but if you have somebody helping you and guiding you through it, the process is really
Mandy: That's it.
Joel: simple. You just hop on the camera for 20, 30 minutes, maybe once every couple of weeks, and then boom, you take that content and you then spread it out kind of like an octopus. It's got all these different arms, and you can repurpose that content across all your marketing channels.
Marc Shaffer: And someone might listen to it years later.
Joel: Exactly, yeah.
Mandy: Yeah. Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: Yep.
Mandy: And it's it's honestly an easy, easy way to create content for yourself, you know,
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: the authenticity, absolutely, Joel. The amount of content that we've gotten out of CMOs Without Borders is phenomenal. You know, that we share and reshare and reshare again. It's it's fantastic it's a fantastic tool to to share authentic Good content.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, I listened to Peter Malouk is a local person in Kansas City, owns creative planning. But it was also interesting. This was last week. I walk every night. This was just what I listened to. It was a podcast with Tim Ferris, but it's also interesting to listen to this was nine years ago, pre-COVID, like relating back to how different things were for people. but it's it's still relatable. But yes, I I've enjoyed listening to other people, including competitors. The end the day we're all trying to help clients that if we can give each other good ideas, podcasts is one
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: way to do it.
Joel: Yeah. So as you've grown your firm with Circe and and ALOS, where do you see your biggest growth opportunities just over the next few years? I mean, AI is starting to kind of make its inway into financial advising. It's kind of you talked about robo advisors back when you started ALOS. And I mean, AI is kind of that new robo advisor. So how do you see AI kind of competing, you know, with maybe low end financial planning, because you can certainly go into Chat GPT or Claude and say create a financial plan. I'd love to hear your thoughts around AI and financial services from a a prospective
Marc Shaffer: Yeah.
Joel: client standpoint and how that might affect growth opportunities in the future.
Marc Shaffer: One thing that I've gotten good at over time is delivering advice with confidence, especially
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: when there can't be any guarantees on anything in life. So
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: you know, serving someone that's going through a divorce today, actually, just like if I could say it's gonna be fine, like I guess the financial planning software or whatever you input and one client brought their CLOD notes to the meeting the other day, which is interesting.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: But if if I say, No, no, no, that you you are doing fine and here's what you need to focus on and have the real
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: look in my eye, listen to me, and this is what I think and know you should do and hold I will hold you accountable. The team is here to help you accountable. Like that can't be delivered by AI. So I didn't feel confident doing that early in my career. So that's something that happens with experience. But I I think that that's what we're gonna lean into and continue to be for people. The confidence and knowing that we will be there if it doesn't go exactly as planned. I will also say that where I'm lean where the firm is leaning This is newer lately is continuity planning. there's a lot of businesses out there, you probably serve some of these people that aren't a billion dollars in assets under management. That's like a small firm now. I remember that used to be the pinnacle that everybody wanted to get to. but there's a lot
Joel: I know. Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: of small one person firms that if they die or get disabled, it's a problem for the clients that still need a plan, still need a distribution, still want the maybe the person that passed away that was an advisor, their spouse needs to realize the value of their business. so we're we're leaning into that for future just supporting the industry. I enjoy networking with other financial planners. I've been president of the Financial Planning Association and my degree is a K-State. All my friends are friendly competitors because we all graduated with a degree in financial planning. So those people don't want to grow to a team of 13 like we have. So they want to know how to scale without it and know their clients are taking care of if something happens. I think that will lead into succession planning in the future, although that's not the initial purpose.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Are you using what AI tools are you using to help support the relationships that you're building with your clients? Right.
Marc Shaffer: This is evolving right now. So as I said, we're just moving this week. It's Copilot. So
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: I I hate the fact that you know, if I want it to help me clean up an email, there's the protection of client information or any of that. But Copilot's built within your outlook. It knows my calendar. It knows the way I write, to your point of how you talk. It it
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: automated. So I feel a lot better moving with this platform. And also doing some of the same stuff that I had built out in ChatGPT as what I had previously used.
Mandy: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: because it it you know, shad, I've got all these projects and things I use it for that I'm going to be moving over to co-pilot here soon. but it's not anything fancy. Claude was even before that. Now Claude seems to be come back and be very popular with people. So it's
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: my advice to people in AI is lean in and try things and learn and realize that whatever you do, it's probably gonna change like anything else.
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: and I think the value it's adding. is good but we're still just touching the surface of it, which has me
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: excited.
Mandy: The fintech is really growing, the B2B fintech is really growing, and it's growing because a lot of the fintech companies are using AI tools to help financial advisors in their compliance practices, doing the research, making sure they've got all of those back-end elements in in in financial planning covered so that you can focus on the relationship. Are you using any of those tools today? And you know, do you have recommendations for people who who who need to scale and create those efficiencies?
Marc Shaffer: So I feel like I'm still learning about it. So I don't have the answer. But I would say that the hardest part in our industry, financial planning, is the compliance piece. Like I talk with other business owners and they don't have the same kind of I'm scared. Like I I'm not the compliance person. I feel like I wanna try things and they say no and I have to listen to whatever they say.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: But in other industries they don't have that same be scared. So I I'm I'm really glad when we're finding these things. No, no, we've addressed that security issue. This is not a problem. So I still feel like what, two years later, I feel like I'm moving forward faster on them. Just the fact that we have jumped, take notes, and it produces great things. Now we can have that sync into Copilot, sink into email and prepping for a meeting, an agent that analyzes all of this stuff that is otherwise a person preparing for things for three hours that it can do in five minutes. So again, going back to knowing your client on a different level but not having the the same level but not spending the time so that it what is that scale. So I
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I feel like what's happened this week is we're finally almost there. Well I'll I'll re like the the jump to the next level. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it it's
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: slow improvements, but this one will be really big from a time efficiency standpoint. But it's not anything new or outlandish. So Copilot, jump AI for the meeting notes, quiver is what we're using from overlay on Salesforce.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: and then Figuring out how they all talk together. Another thing we've done is anticipation of AI continuing to take over more is create processes, procedures behind everything. Not only for training the next person, but then
Joel: Of course. Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: saying, an agent can actually do this now? If we didn't have the process written, how do we train an agent to do some of it? And by agent, AI agent.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: so I Ryan on my team is very talented in researching the tech side about it. I'm glad because I am not and it is more
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: work than I thought it would be and it takes a long time. But we should have this conversation a few months 'cause I think it'll be totally different.
Mandy: And isn't that the case? I I find that AI just in twenty twenty six alone has advanced so much in the first six months that everything's speeding up, getting faster. We a and we have to keep up.
Marc Shaffer: The crazy part about it is did you guys read the article? I think it was a local form. Mariner created seven hundred AI agents or so I don't know, some weird headline. yeah. But
Joel: Yeah. Yeah, I posted about that on LinkedIn. I saw that. Yeah. I was like, Wow, yeah.
Marc Shaffer: it's also like w when you're taking it at that scale, it starts costing money. Like what is chat GPT? I might have paid twenty dollars a month, but when you're
Joel: huh.
Marc Shaffer: getting it to the extent that they are in the data that it's using, it's then it becomes is it scalable at that price point? So we aren't there because we're small. But there are some headwinds for some I guess mass users in terms of how you're how they're using it. Yep.
Mandy: Yes, for sure.
Joel: From an overall marketing standpoint, you know, everyone's trying to find those the the the latest tactic or strategy to bring more business. So I I know you're kind of leading the firm from business development standpoint. I know you do a ton of coffee meetings, but what are some of the tactics you feel are getting the most attention or engagement right now? Like how are your how are new clients coming to find you? Is it still through referrals and relationships that you're doing, like with all these coffee meetings, or is it any any particular strategy or tactic that you feel is kind of winning you most of the new business.
Marc Shaffer: It depends on the month that you ask. So this last month it's been interesting that a handful, three new clients came from competitors because they don't fit the model. So oddly enough, if you're an open networker, it comes in all places and some people
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: really niche and this is who we're serving. We kind of have the opposite, we serve everybody, which is good and bad. Like some people say, No, you definitely need a niche. We've taken the opposite approach to that and say we just want to bring financial planning to the masses. So what
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Hm.
Marc Shaffer: people don't serve, we get thought of as that resource. So it that's beneficial to us. but that that's interesting. Going in and being involved and helping other advisors with things is turning into them referring competitor referring business.
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: Hasn't always been the case, but that's been in last month.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I would also say in my book I talk about the process of what I do after a coffee meeting. It's not like nice to meet you. I hope I see you in the community. It's here's some promises that I'm gonna follow up with in a way to do it that it's not taking an hour, it takes five minutes. And then adding reminders and following up and sending notes and sending the book, like all of those things do matter. I would also tell you that bringing people together to crash, it it's been happened for years. COVID took some of that away. We just had a 50th anniversary party for our clients to celebrate our business, but just bringing people, I didn't know you guys were clients, or the prospects
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: come, they see that people trust us. we're doing a pizza party every year and it's always in the fall, like that. We don't do that to find business, but it results in business. So I
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: I hope and look forward to doing more of those just bring people together events with no purpose
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: other than to have fun. That works really well. The real estate industry does it better than anybody else. That's where I've learned some of those things. Yeah.
Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So
Mandy: Sure do. Sure do.
Joel: like client client
Mandy: Yeah.
Joel: appreciation events, workshops, yeah. I think those are all great events. And like you said, COVID kind of killed some of that. But it's coming back in full force. People are just craving that personal interaction, especially with AI taking over anything. Like it's become so tech focused and forward that people are just craving those personal interactions, which is why I think financial advisors still have a long you know led longevity to them because you can talk people off ledges. You can look them in the eye and give them those reassurances that they are not gonna get from their AI tool that their plan is in place and they're on track and you don't need to worry and so yeah any so I know we're we're we're getting
Mandy: And it's easy sorry, and it's easy to create those events as well, those client appreciation events, you know, the pizza parties, you order in pizza, you book a a restaurant reservation for a table of fifty. It's they're they're super easy to do and to create those moments that become meaningful for both your clients and to your point to network new clients as well.
Marc Shaffer: And to put great other professionals in front of people that end up doing business together.
Mandy: Yes,
Marc Shaffer: and it does I always I'm also trying to take this. And my mind I thought like my mind is more is the answer. Turns out it's not always the answer. Like an event with eight people is wonderful too. So some people say I'm not gonna do it unless it's a hundred people. Well no no, don't if you think like that, you might never start. but
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: we're we're in the process of doing a lunch and I'm heading down to see my business partner in Phoenix that's just bringing, I think, ten people at a lunch.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: So and if four people only show up, that's fine too.
Mandy: Yeah, yeah. And bringing your centers of influence together, right? Not just financial planners, but your accountants, your estate planners, your you know, your real estate agents that that are your centers of influence as well.
Marc Shaffer: Yep, that's for sure.
Joel: So Mark, what advice would you give another advisor? You know, we're all about sharing ideas. It's kind of a cooperation. Manny and I are both, you know, trying to work with financial advisors, but we have a podcast together. So we're sharing ideas. So in the idea of sharing is caring, what
Mandy: Yeah. what
Joel: what what are some of the things that you feel like financial advisor who wants to become more visible should do. They shouldn't do all the thousand things that we're talking about. Like what's one thing that you feel they should focus on, get good at, and then maybe add on to the next thing.
Marc Shaffer: that's a good question. I would say what I'm telling the younger people is what I did. And I got involved in the FPA, and that's nothing to do with developing business, but find the successful financial planner. I now have a list of call them good financial planners. By good I mean like collaborative, happy
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: to share best resources, also fun to be around. and when I joined the FPA, it was kind of like, why are you going to network with our competitors? Like the good people, I brought back ideas to our firm from that. I j I also get something to mentor some of these younger people now. I I feel better about life. It makes me feel good, they value what I'm doing. but next gen within FPA, if we're talking about young people, is people under thirty six, this and interest group and they get together regularly, that that's a good thing to try to. but again, do it with the people that are open networks to share good ideas, not try to steal from one another. There's good and bad people in every industry.
Joel: Yeah. Well, Mark, so thank you so much for your time. we'll put some of the links to your book. one for all in the show notes. We'll put a link in about how to write a book. You wrote a blog post about that. We'll put all those in the show notes. Anything you'd wanna share with the raudience, Mark, before we shut down for this episode?
Marc Shaffer: I don't have any fancy sayings. one of my favorite quotes is don't let the things you want make you forget the things you have. So gratitude is something that I'm focusing on this second half of the year and there's my quote board.
Joel: Love it. All right, Mark, thank you so much.
Mandy: I'm Mandy McPhee. I am a fractional chief marketing officer and work with founders who are doing too much and need someone to turn their scattered marketing into a system that actually drives results.
Joel: Welcome to another episode of CMOs Without Border. Today's guest is someone that I've known for a little over a year now, Mark Schaefer. Mark is a CFP, he's a financial advisor, he's one of the leaders at his firm, Seriously Financial. He's really active in the community, has written a book called One for All, which is about building stronger relationships systematically by just basically helping others. So kind of having that servant mentality. So I'm really excited to dig into his. career, his book, everything he's building at CRC and everything else he's got going on around his life. So welcome Mark.
Marc Shaffer: Thanks for having me. yeah, it's a couple months ago I celebrated twenty years at this firm. So I feel like I'm mid career, so I am qualified enough to give some advice now, right?
Joel: I hope so. Yeah. I didn't check your qualifications before I invited you, but I knew you enough personally.
Marc Shaffer: It's all good.
Joel: I was like, he's probably a decent guy.
Marc Shaffer: Fair, fair.
Mandy: Ha ha ha.
Joel: But I definitely wanted to bring up first of all your book One for All, which I've got a copy here. it's a really fun read and it actually motivating me to write my own book. And then Mandy, I know has written her own book. So this is a a book for bibliophiles, people who want to learn more about networking. maybe we can get into how you wrote the book. But really what I'd love to ask you first, Mark, is why did you decide to write a book? I think a lot of financial advisors have that thought of maybe I should write a book. I've got a lot of experience, but kind of what what was the genesis of you wanting to write a book?
Marc Shaffer: mine was I like new challenges and part of one of what I don't or haven't liked until after the book was writing. So if I'm gonna
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: lean into things I don't like, that's one way to do it. Write a whole book about it, right? Not just a blog. But it was more of a response to a question on you should be documenting what's working for you so that you can teach other people. internally.
Mandy: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: So kind of it was a the internal process for how we're developing relationships, staying in contact with people and not doing it. off the cuff, meaning there's a process to it, and there you do this next, you do this next. And not that everybody is in a process, but if there's a process, things don't slip through the cracks, people get similar experiences. And instead of wondering what's next, it's built like in a month you do this. the trick and I guess I would say science about it is the authenticity about it, right? If everything's a process, then you're not authentic. So
Joel: Yeah. Uh-huh.
Marc Shaffer: when I try to create a process, it's not a one page check the box thing. It's a culture built around helping people. And the easiest way if you read the book, it's not just the process, it's stories and things that have worked for me personally along the way. That it's kind of like if I would have known what I did when I was three years in the business, wouldn't pay off till 13 years of the business, I might have
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: focused on more of the activities like that. So it's the activities for other team members to focus on that result in good friends, relationships, business, people that pay you to do what you do, and it doesn't have to be financial planning. That just happens to be how how I monetize the relationships. But even doctors have read it for Bedside Manor, like how do you be a good person?
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: so for what it's worth, it's it is about relationships.
Mandy: So then Mark, you know, your book sounds a little bit of a cross between a standard operating procedure as well as relationship and networking advice for your team as well. What's the biggest lesson that you're teaching in your book?
Marc Shaffer: I I had a avatar for who I was actually writing to when I worked with my writing coach. And I think the lesson for them is actually someone on my team that I met with every other week to say, like, what am I not thinking? Because I want you to be the person getting all the value. The the lesson is patience. Like when someone
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: sees things happening, they don't they think, that just happened overnight, not the thing that happened 13 years
Joel: Mm.
Marc Shaffer: ago or three months ago. And sometimes it happens faster. But the younger person demographic and people that we're adding to our team that I want to learn this stuff quicker than maybe I learned from it, don't understand that you can start today, but you might not have results. And so your future self is going to say, worry about the activities now, because the results will come. And we're not we're not a a firm that expects sales. So we're not producing salespeople, which is the what I think of as the old financial planning industry was a sales industry. It's a it's a helping industry. Like help people
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: get what they want.
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: And then you're top of mind when what they want or need ends up being financial planning, but you've helped them with a number of things beforehand.
Mandy: Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Joel and I often talk a lot about trust in financial services, trust in the business that you're in and financial planning, and that you're selling you're selling trust. Your trust is your product. It's not necessarily the investments that you're buying into. As you build those relationships, that's part of selling that trust and being part of that trust system. Can you talk a little bit about? How you tie that in?
Marc Shaffer: I would say I I go about trust is good, but how do you earn it? And one of the things that I talk about is consistency, right?
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: And then always and this is getting harder the busier I get, the more that you know, you take on more relationships, clients, business life, I have kids now and a family, it's harder. But if you have a process around it and a system
Joel: Yeah, mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: for checks and balances, things don't slip through the cracks. And so
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: I oddly enough in my industry, if you just deliver on what you're promising or Let's say I meet with someone, I'm gonna do these three things that have nothing to do with financial planning. Most people walk away from those networking or coffees or just warm meetings, n expecting nothing. So if you
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: deliver on everything you just said, it's simple things, automatically the trust starts building. And it doesn't have to be to earn it for financial planning, but the whole premise of the book is hand it out in slices and it comes back in loaves. And I don't want that to be meant in money, it can be friendship, it can be life contentment. But there's something to be said, like just do what you say you're going to do. But if that's hard for you, find a way to have an accountability and systems and that's what the book is about too.
Mandy: Yeah. And
Joel: Yeah, I think you you definitely need those systems and processes in place to scale anything in your life, to make it repeatable,
Marc Shaffer: Yes.
Joel: to keep track. We're all so busy. We need some sort of system to keep track of everything. What system do you use to track all that? Because I know I've been I've been in your system. I've gotten your feedback and your responses. And so I know there's a system, like an engine running behind that. Can you tell me like the specific tool and why you chose that one? Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, it's continued to evolve. and the timelines associated with things have continued to evolve. We've used Salesforce for years, but I I haven't moved into the next system of AI automating stuff, the agents.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I mean, we we're looking into this, so maybe in two months I'll have a different story for you. But
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: accountability with your team, like I can't be all things to all people. So what part of this process can someone else do? And when I do one part it it it the next step goes automatically to someone else to do that. years ago, I read a book called Giftology. So I'm also a big fan of surprising and delighting people, which also
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: is is not about trust. It's about developing I I really care about you, you know what I'm saying? Like I listened to the fact that your dog is having a hard time and fighting its own sickness. Like that doesn't matter for furthering financial planning, but it matters that you listened and you did something about what you heard. so that's a good book by John Rulin. Giftology is another one I've added to a culture and what we're trying to build internally here too.
Mandy: Say though that listening, caring, all of the things that you're doing is all about building trust with your clients, earning, not building, earning trust with your clients. And as soon as one thing fails in there and breaks, you're also breaking that trust, and it's harder to get that back.
Marc Shaffer: yeah.
Mandy: so the relationships that you talk about is is part of the business building that you're doing as well.
Marc Shaffer: I'll admit this is it's also delegation of what you're best at. And I
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: heard you say it earlier, Mandy, like my focus happens to be more on relationship now. And it's even less now about the financial planning detailed work, but we have people that like that more than the relationship building. And so it's been that's all about scalability. Now there's me that gets to focus on what I love and what I thrive in, and someone else that focuses on something else. but yes, that it happened, it works to have. Great people doing what they're best at, playing to their strengths.
Mandy: When did you decide that you needed to scale mark? At one point in your business that you you decided, hey, I just need to focus on the relationship and somebody else can do all the back end paperwork, the financial planning and all
Marc Shaffer: Joel didn't mention this at the beginning. We have a second company called ALOS Investment Advisors and that was created two thousand ten. it is intended for bringing financial planning and investment management to the masses, and that was about the time that the RoboAdvisor came around. And if
Mandy: Mm.
Marc Shaffer: you're bringing highly things that take a lot of time and scale, you you have to be very efficient. And instead of what the rest of the market was doing over the last fifty years of well, we just helped wealthier people, we were Bucking that trend and realizing that there is a service model that can be had, it still can be profitable so long as tech continues to be able to leverage that and scalability happens. So when we created ALOS and we found, wow, people are willing to do that and there's not as much profit or revenue in there, but our mission is to do it. So regardless of that, we want to do it. That's when we decided we needed to become very efficient to serve that market. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.
Mandy: Nice. Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it does. Well, let me let me finish up the discussion on the book. I want to do a shout out to the team at Share Your Story, which I know we we actually had
Marc Shaffer: yeah, I could talk about that too.
Joel: yeah, we had we had Will on our podcast last year. so it was that was a great discussion about the the book writing journey and why so many financial advisors kind of do the past. So if anybody's listening wants to go check out that episode, they can. I don't remember when it was, sometime in fall of two thousand twenty five, maybe.
Marc Shaffer: If you do show notes, I wrote a blog about my wonderful experience with them and the writing coach that I got assigned to that talked through the process. I
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: loved it enough to do it again. And for anybody thinking about writing a book, I hated it. I got through it and then I committed to trying to create more content for my website. So blogs, like fifteen hundred words and less. That seemed so simple. And for the rest of the year last year, after I wrote the manuscript, I was writing like one a week. And if you can do that and feel the I started feeling the positive impacts of sharing what I wrote content wise and getting, you know, the likes are one thing, but then SEO around and a random person reaches out because they were touched by something you said. So it's like this positive reinforcement. So you want to write again and you want to write again. And so I'm in that phase and enjoying it. but you gotta get over that, I guess, my mindset of hating writing, and I and I did
Joel: His name.
Marc Shaffer: through the book. so but of course, you know. Through writing more, you learn not that AI writes it, but it gets over writing blocks, right? And if it's a marketing thing, like that's what you're talking about, we use a note taker to take notes in all of our meetings now. It's called jump. Most advisors are using some form of that.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Marc Shaffer: But it's very interesting to use that, create analytics on the overarching themes of what's being discussed across multiple meetings, of which I might not be in, but if it's
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: coming up ten times in ten different meetings. It sounds like something that people might search for, create some content and SEO around it, and that's what you're writing about. I will also admit I enjoy writing about nothing that has to do with financial planning. Book reviews, leadership, travel,
Joel: Of course. Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: life, because people also are seeking that in financial advisors and people they trust, right? So most of mine are fun to write because it's not about how you do a Roth conversion, which is also important. So be
Mandy: Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: a be real, be a person. That's how people find you and can relate to you.
Mandy: So one thing you can try, Mark, to capture your voice in your writing when using AI is to take all of your meeting notes and ask it to do a voice guideline for you. Tone, manner, the way you talk, so that when it spits out your writing, it already has that voice guideline. for you to use and it should write more accurately to your voice and it'll be materials that you you really enjoy and like.
Marc Shaffer: So I am not our compliance and I am not our what else am I tech, but your timing on saying this is interesting. I used Chat GPT for a long time. We're transitioning yesterday, so I have co-pilot, which syncs security-wise to knowing my email that is
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I don't understand the words, close model, so I can do more of that and copy
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: meeting notes into things to do exactly
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: what you're saying. so
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: even though I feel like I'm moving forward on some tech. that will move forward a lot further in regards to what you're saying. So I'm excited about diving in.
Mandy: Yeah, yeah, that's exciting. your book is also rich with content as well. Once you write a book, my gosh, you can leverage
Marc Shaffer: That's true.
Mandy: all of that content for your blogs and articles, repurpose it. It gives you a wealth of content to write about weekly.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: Yep. And even when I was working with my writing coach, they'd say, You need a better hook or you need a better story and I'd tr copy and paste what I'd written so far. It says, Ask me questions that might make me think of a story that
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: I'm otherwise just it's in here, but I can't pull
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: it out. And ten questions go,
Mandy: Nice.
Marc Shaffer: yeah, I have something to say about that, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mandy: Yeah, yeah, nice.
Joel: And sh shout out to Jessica. I know she's the writing coach, right? That you were mentioning. Yeah. She's actually helping one of my clients, another financial advisor client that I have, write a write his book too. So talking about experts, bringing in people that are better at what you do. I mean, that's why people bring in financial advisors to help them build the financial plan. So I they bring in marketing professionals such as Manny and myself. So yeah, I think just we're we're we're talking about bringing in those experts to fill in the gaps where your knowledge areas are lighter. So anything anything else you want talk about from a system systemizing kindness? Yeah.
Mandy: Joel, why do you Joel yeah yeah, yeah, I got a question for you, Joel.
Marc Shaffer: Yes.
Mandy: Why do you think yeah, why do you think that so many financial advisors and financial planners are writing their own books right now?
Joel: Well, lots of reasons. probably the biggest one is it's a marketing tool. I mean it's it's an easy giveaway. it's probably the reason a lot of these reasons the same that we wrote our own books, mainly, is what showcases us as experts in whatever particular area we're writing about. Typically it has some sort of conversation about financial advising and planning and so they wanna share that kind of expertise, but they also have their own unique story to tell. Like you were saying, Mark, their your own unique spin, their own unique experiences that want they want to bring in. And that's what helped shape them and their career, but also the firm that they've built. And they want to make sure that the people that they are working with understand, the genesis of their firm and why they think the way they do, why they invest the way they do, why they develop plans in that way. That so I think those you marketing, telling the story. You know, people like to create legacies for themselves. so that's also a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, I I gave my kids my I gave
Marc Shaffer: My hope is that my kids read my book someday. Yes. Yes. Legacy for planting seeds for good kids.
Mandy: Yeah.
Joel: Yeah. I gave my kids a copy of my book too, and they quickly put it on the shelf and didn't open it. And then I I even showed it showed the dedication page, you know, I dedicate this to my kids, whatever. They're like, Okay, cool, dad. Just it's like it's the last thing they want to do is read a book when they're in in high school.
Marc Shaffer: It's
Joel: No.
Marc Shaffer: the funnest part about it is my wife, I don't think she's read it. Bridget, if you're listening
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: to this, you should still read it because some people are like this is a great book and they tell my wife
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: and she's like, it is great. No. But I back to your question, Mandy, is it's trust. So when I meet with someone for the first time but they know I've written or they've read it, like they've read the whole book.
Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: And the very important part with anything in marketing, as you know, is it's gotta match you. Like if you wrote this wonderful book but it doesn't bring out who you really are, or you have a website that's great but it's not who you are, like
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: if all of it lines up with confirming what they already have, the trust is further already.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: It's a it works for that a lot.
Mandy: Yes. Yeah. It builds up an authority. that builds up trust. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And and on
Marc Shaffer: Whether they've read it or not too.
Joel: Yeah.
Mandy: that note, my kids are a little bit older than Joel's.
Joel: No.
Mandy: they're young adults. They've all read my book. My husband's read it. My mother in law has read it. My sister in laws have read it. The only person that hasn't read it is my parents. So I I think there's always somebody in the family that hasn't read your book.
Marc Shaffer: Yep. My dad did read it. I yes. Yes.
Mandy: Ha
Marc Shaffer: Yep, that's true. Fair.
Joel: Good. all right. L let's shift conversation to podcasting. We're on a podcast. so Mark, I know you're a frequent contributor to the four o'clock somewhere podcast. It used to be five o'clock.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Joel: so you tell us a little bit about of of kind of why you started that podcast, you know, what what did you hope it was gonna accomplish? What did you what have you learned through the process? I've it's been on for a while. I've been listening to it ever since I've known you.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah. Yeah, like anything else, it's consistency. But the way that this podcast came about was I was having happy hours with an accountability partner who started a podcast business.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: And I was like, we should just take our happy hours live. We're talking about good people, life, leadership, and whatever comes to mind. Turns out some people might listen to it. But like anything else, people can get a taste of who you are by sometimes I have a coffee meeting and they've listened to an episode on the drive
Joel: No.
Marc Shaffer: to meet with me. And there's already this feeling like they know you before they've had any conversation with you.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: But mine was a back and forth over time for should I start my own? And I'm like, that sounds like a lot of work.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: if you if you and also I thought, it'd just be me talking for 30 minutes. No, the open dialogues like this, very easy to talk about things. I we haven't done where we bring a guest on. It's just Jeff Palacio and I talking
Joel: Was it?
Marc Shaffer: openly about things. but it was in in an effort to support him to jumpstart his is his business, let's do this together. And it his corporate couch podcast has taken off. He has some wonderful
Joel: Yeah, yeah.
Marc Shaffer: guests, even better than me, on his podcast. But hi ours are nothing like his ours are just fun conversations as as
Joel: Uh-huh.
Marc Shaffer: as if we're having AVR.
Joel: Yeah. And again, it brings more of that authenticity, like you were saying. It it shows you the r I mean, you can't hide behind the camera. Like you're literally showing who you are, your personality, how you speak. you know, we can do a lot on the editing, on the production side, on the back end to make us sound better, but people still get a lot of the authentic you kind of you know dives into that book conversation. So like you're just showing another channel, another way that you're showcasing your expertise and being your own authentic self and bringing about your stories. And that's what makes you you versus another financial advisor, another marketing person down the road.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, I it's I I can't decide if there's business that comes directly from it, but neither could that be said about my book. What I
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: tell people it's a series of everything you're doing that
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: helps and contributes. it's a number of touches, it's how you've introduced them, it's listing on a podcast. But everything you do as it relates to the book and a podcast should filter down to social media, if that's your LinkedIn or
Joel: Amen.
Marc Shaffer: or Facebook. It just gives you more things to be sharing, which in and
Joel: We did.
Marc Shaffer: of itself is worthy of staying in front of people. So I've I've leaned into that. I really like social media too.
Joel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so many advisors that I work with want to start podcasts, and it is a lot of work. I've got a couple that I'm building podcasts for, and it's just kind of one of those things, like it's it's a lot of work, but if you have somebody helping you and guiding you through it, the process is really
Mandy: That's it.
Joel: simple. You just hop on the camera for 20, 30 minutes, maybe once every couple of weeks, and then boom, you take that content and you then spread it out kind of like an octopus. It's got all these different arms, and you can repurpose that content across all your marketing channels.
Marc Shaffer: And someone might listen to it years later.
Joel: Exactly, yeah.
Mandy: Yeah. Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: Yep.
Mandy: And it's it's honestly an easy, easy way to create content for yourself, you know,
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: the authenticity, absolutely, Joel. The amount of content that we've gotten out of CMOs Without Borders is phenomenal. You know, that we share and reshare and reshare again. It's it's fantastic it's a fantastic tool to to share authentic Good content.
Marc Shaffer: Yeah, I listened to Peter Malouk is a local person in Kansas City, owns creative planning. But it was also interesting. This was last week. I walk every night. This was just what I listened to. It was a podcast with Tim Ferris, but it's also interesting to listen to this was nine years ago, pre-COVID, like relating back to how different things were for people. but it's it's still relatable. But yes, I I've enjoyed listening to other people, including competitors. The end the day we're all trying to help clients that if we can give each other good ideas, podcasts is one
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: way to do it.
Joel: Yeah. So as you've grown your firm with Circe and and ALOS, where do you see your biggest growth opportunities just over the next few years? I mean, AI is starting to kind of make its inway into financial advising. It's kind of you talked about robo advisors back when you started ALOS. And I mean, AI is kind of that new robo advisor. So how do you see AI kind of competing, you know, with maybe low end financial planning, because you can certainly go into Chat GPT or Claude and say create a financial plan. I'd love to hear your thoughts around AI and financial services from a a prospective
Marc Shaffer: Yeah.
Joel: client standpoint and how that might affect growth opportunities in the future.
Marc Shaffer: One thing that I've gotten good at over time is delivering advice with confidence, especially
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: when there can't be any guarantees on anything in life. So
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: you know, serving someone that's going through a divorce today, actually, just like if I could say it's gonna be fine, like I guess the financial planning software or whatever you input and one client brought their CLOD notes to the meeting the other day, which is interesting.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: But if if I say, No, no, no, that you you are doing fine and here's what you need to focus on and have the real
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: look in my eye, listen to me, and this is what I think and know you should do and hold I will hold you accountable. The team is here to help you accountable. Like that can't be delivered by AI. So I didn't feel confident doing that early in my career. So that's something that happens with experience. But I I think that that's what we're gonna lean into and continue to be for people. The confidence and knowing that we will be there if it doesn't go exactly as planned. I will also say that where I'm lean where the firm is leaning This is newer lately is continuity planning. there's a lot of businesses out there, you probably serve some of these people that aren't a billion dollars in assets under management. That's like a small firm now. I remember that used to be the pinnacle that everybody wanted to get to. but there's a lot
Joel: I know. Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: of small one person firms that if they die or get disabled, it's a problem for the clients that still need a plan, still need a distribution, still want the maybe the person that passed away that was an advisor, their spouse needs to realize the value of their business. so we're we're leaning into that for future just supporting the industry. I enjoy networking with other financial planners. I've been president of the Financial Planning Association and my degree is a K-State. All my friends are friendly competitors because we all graduated with a degree in financial planning. So those people don't want to grow to a team of 13 like we have. So they want to know how to scale without it and know their clients are taking care of if something happens. I think that will lead into succession planning in the future, although that's not the initial purpose.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Are you using what AI tools are you using to help support the relationships that you're building with your clients? Right.
Marc Shaffer: This is evolving right now. So as I said, we're just moving this week. It's Copilot. So
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: I I hate the fact that you know, if I want it to help me clean up an email, there's the protection of client information or any of that. But Copilot's built within your outlook. It knows my calendar. It knows the way I write, to your point of how you talk. It it
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: automated. So I feel a lot better moving with this platform. And also doing some of the same stuff that I had built out in ChatGPT as what I had previously used.
Mandy: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: because it it you know, shad, I've got all these projects and things I use it for that I'm going to be moving over to co-pilot here soon. but it's not anything fancy. Claude was even before that. Now Claude seems to be come back and be very popular with people. So it's
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: my advice to people in AI is lean in and try things and learn and realize that whatever you do, it's probably gonna change like anything else.
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: and I think the value it's adding. is good but we're still just touching the surface of it, which has me
Mandy: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: excited.
Mandy: The fintech is really growing, the B2B fintech is really growing, and it's growing because a lot of the fintech companies are using AI tools to help financial advisors in their compliance practices, doing the research, making sure they've got all of those back-end elements in in in financial planning covered so that you can focus on the relationship. Are you using any of those tools today? And you know, do you have recommendations for people who who who need to scale and create those efficiencies?
Marc Shaffer: So I feel like I'm still learning about it. So I don't have the answer. But I would say that the hardest part in our industry, financial planning, is the compliance piece. Like I talk with other business owners and they don't have the same kind of I'm scared. Like I I'm not the compliance person. I feel like I wanna try things and they say no and I have to listen to whatever they say.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: But in other industries they don't have that same be scared. So I I'm I'm really glad when we're finding these things. No, no, we've addressed that security issue. This is not a problem. So I still feel like what, two years later, I feel like I'm moving forward faster on them. Just the fact that we have jumped, take notes, and it produces great things. Now we can have that sync into Copilot, sink into email and prepping for a meeting, an agent that analyzes all of this stuff that is otherwise a person preparing for things for three hours that it can do in five minutes. So again, going back to knowing your client on a different level but not having the the same level but not spending the time so that it what is that scale. So I
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I feel like what's happened this week is we're finally almost there. Well I'll I'll re like the the jump to the next level. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it it's
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Yes.
Marc Shaffer: slow improvements, but this one will be really big from a time efficiency standpoint. But it's not anything new or outlandish. So Copilot, jump AI for the meeting notes, quiver is what we're using from overlay on Salesforce.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: and then Figuring out how they all talk together. Another thing we've done is anticipation of AI continuing to take over more is create processes, procedures behind everything. Not only for training the next person, but then
Joel: Of course. Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: saying, an agent can actually do this now? If we didn't have the process written, how do we train an agent to do some of it? And by agent, AI agent.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: so I Ryan on my team is very talented in researching the tech side about it. I'm glad because I am not and it is more
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: work than I thought it would be and it takes a long time. But we should have this conversation a few months 'cause I think it'll be totally different.
Mandy: And isn't that the case? I I find that AI just in twenty twenty six alone has advanced so much in the first six months that everything's speeding up, getting faster. We a and we have to keep up.
Marc Shaffer: The crazy part about it is did you guys read the article? I think it was a local form. Mariner created seven hundred AI agents or so I don't know, some weird headline. yeah. But
Joel: Yeah. Yeah, I posted about that on LinkedIn. I saw that. Yeah. I was like, Wow, yeah.
Marc Shaffer: it's also like w when you're taking it at that scale, it starts costing money. Like what is chat GPT? I might have paid twenty dollars a month, but when you're
Joel: huh.
Marc Shaffer: getting it to the extent that they are in the data that it's using, it's then it becomes is it scalable at that price point? So we aren't there because we're small. But there are some headwinds for some I guess mass users in terms of how you're how they're using it. Yep.
Mandy: Yes, for sure.
Joel: From an overall marketing standpoint, you know, everyone's trying to find those the the the latest tactic or strategy to bring more business. So I I know you're kind of leading the firm from business development standpoint. I know you do a ton of coffee meetings, but what are some of the tactics you feel are getting the most attention or engagement right now? Like how are your how are new clients coming to find you? Is it still through referrals and relationships that you're doing, like with all these coffee meetings, or is it any any particular strategy or tactic that you feel is kind of winning you most of the new business.
Marc Shaffer: It depends on the month that you ask. So this last month it's been interesting that a handful, three new clients came from competitors because they don't fit the model. So oddly enough, if you're an open networker, it comes in all places and some people
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: really niche and this is who we're serving. We kind of have the opposite, we serve everybody, which is good and bad. Like some people say, No, you definitely need a niche. We've taken the opposite approach to that and say we just want to bring financial planning to the masses. So what
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Mandy: Hm.
Marc Shaffer: people don't serve, we get thought of as that resource. So it that's beneficial to us. but that that's interesting. Going in and being involved and helping other advisors with things is turning into them referring competitor referring business.
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: Hasn't always been the case, but that's been in last month.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: I would also say in my book I talk about the process of what I do after a coffee meeting. It's not like nice to meet you. I hope I see you in the community. It's here's some promises that I'm gonna follow up with in a way to do it that it's not taking an hour, it takes five minutes. And then adding reminders and following up and sending notes and sending the book, like all of those things do matter. I would also tell you that bringing people together to crash, it it's been happened for years. COVID took some of that away. We just had a 50th anniversary party for our clients to celebrate our business, but just bringing people, I didn't know you guys were clients, or the prospects
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: come, they see that people trust us. we're doing a pizza party every year and it's always in the fall, like that. We don't do that to find business, but it results in business. So I
Joel: Yeah.
Marc Shaffer: I hope and look forward to doing more of those just bring people together events with no purpose
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: other than to have fun. That works really well. The real estate industry does it better than anybody else. That's where I've learned some of those things. Yeah.
Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So
Mandy: Sure do. Sure do.
Joel: like client client
Mandy: Yeah.
Joel: appreciation events, workshops, yeah. I think those are all great events. And like you said, COVID kind of killed some of that. But it's coming back in full force. People are just craving that personal interaction, especially with AI taking over anything. Like it's become so tech focused and forward that people are just craving those personal interactions, which is why I think financial advisors still have a long you know led longevity to them because you can talk people off ledges. You can look them in the eye and give them those reassurances that they are not gonna get from their AI tool that their plan is in place and they're on track and you don't need to worry and so yeah any so I know we're we're we're getting
Mandy: And it's easy sorry, and it's easy to create those events as well, those client appreciation events, you know, the pizza parties, you order in pizza, you book a a restaurant reservation for a table of fifty. It's they're they're super easy to do and to create those moments that become meaningful for both your clients and to your point to network new clients as well.
Marc Shaffer: And to put great other professionals in front of people that end up doing business together.
Mandy: Yes,
Marc Shaffer: and it does I always I'm also trying to take this. And my mind I thought like my mind is more is the answer. Turns out it's not always the answer. Like an event with eight people is wonderful too. So some people say I'm not gonna do it unless it's a hundred people. Well no no, don't if you think like that, you might never start. but
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: we're we're in the process of doing a lunch and I'm heading down to see my business partner in Phoenix that's just bringing, I think, ten people at a lunch.
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: So and if four people only show up, that's fine too.
Mandy: Yeah, yeah. And bringing your centers of influence together, right? Not just financial planners, but your accountants, your estate planners, your you know, your real estate agents that that are your centers of influence as well.
Marc Shaffer: Yep, that's for sure.
Joel: So Mark, what advice would you give another advisor? You know, we're all about sharing ideas. It's kind of a cooperation. Manny and I are both, you know, trying to work with financial advisors, but we have a podcast together. So we're sharing ideas. So in the idea of sharing is caring, what
Mandy: Yeah. what
Joel: what what are some of the things that you feel like financial advisor who wants to become more visible should do. They shouldn't do all the thousand things that we're talking about. Like what's one thing that you feel they should focus on, get good at, and then maybe add on to the next thing.
Marc Shaffer: that's a good question. I would say what I'm telling the younger people is what I did. And I got involved in the FPA, and that's nothing to do with developing business, but find the successful financial planner. I now have a list of call them good financial planners. By good I mean like collaborative, happy
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Marc Shaffer: to share best resources, also fun to be around. and when I joined the FPA, it was kind of like, why are you going to network with our competitors? Like the good people, I brought back ideas to our firm from that. I j I also get something to mentor some of these younger people now. I I feel better about life. It makes me feel good, they value what I'm doing. but next gen within FPA, if we're talking about young people, is people under thirty six, this and interest group and they get together regularly, that that's a good thing to try to. but again, do it with the people that are open networks to share good ideas, not try to steal from one another. There's good and bad people in every industry.
Joel: Yeah. Well, Mark, so thank you so much for your time. we'll put some of the links to your book. one for all in the show notes. We'll put a link in about how to write a book. You wrote a blog post about that. We'll put all those in the show notes. Anything you'd wanna share with the raudience, Mark, before we shut down for this episode?
Marc Shaffer: I don't have any fancy sayings. one of my favorite quotes is don't let the things you want make you forget the things you have. So gratitude is something that I'm focusing on this second half of the year and there's my quote board.
Joel: Love it. All right, Mark, thank you so much.
