00:00:01
Speaker 1: Immersing that culture and immersing our purpose into everything that we do, every decision that we make in the office, in the shop, to the team members. So all of those things then becomes integrated into everything that we do. And that's how it shows through, you know, the service and the product. Thank you.
00:00:26
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Biz Work Life Sorted. I'm Lisa Lee.
00:00:29
Speaker 3: And in this season of Biz, we're talking to founders about how they built their business. I'm talking from how they came up with that first idea. So the highs, the lows.
00:00:38
Speaker 2: And all the things they've learned along the way in between.
00:00:41
Speaker 3: There's a particular kind of courage that comes from starting a business when nobody's actually asked for what you're selling. Today's guest arrived in Australia from the US in 2014. She had a background in finance and business, but when she got to Cairns, she couldn't even get a job as the local barista. So instead, She spent less than a couple of hundred dollars on supplies. She rented a tiny table at Rusty's Markets and started pouring Vietnamese.
00:01:02
Speaker 2: Iced coffee out of a pitcher.
00:01:04
Speaker 3: There was just one fairly significant problem. A lot of customers had absolutely no idea why anyone would put condensed milk in coffee. But Annie Nguyen wasn't just selling them a drink.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: She was introducing people to something from her own culture.
00:01:17
Speaker 3: And so that tiny market stall eventually became Annie's, a chain of stores across Queensland.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: And along the way, Annie has faced rejection on Shark Tank.
00:01:25
Speaker 3: She's opened stores, closed stores, made controversial decisions to protect her staff and had to answer one particularly loaded question. Can you keep growing a business built on human connection without losing the human connection that made people love it in the first place? Annie Nguyen is the founder of Annie's Welcome to Biz.
00:01:42
Speaker 2: Welcome to Biz, Annie.
00:01:43
Speaker 1: Thank you. I am thrilled to be here.
00:01:46
Speaker 3: Your story actually starts back from when you were in America and you came to Queensland on a holiday, right? Yes.
00:01:52
Speaker 1: Well, I met my partner in California. Well, actually, no, that's a lie. I met my partner in Vegas.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:01:59
Speaker 1: And what happened in Vegas should have stayed in Vegas, but I came out to Australia. Yeah. And, you know, I'm still here with my business and my babies.
00:02:08
Speaker 3: Did you ever imagine landing here and actually, you know, a decade later having started a company?
00:02:13
Speaker 1: No, no. I've always wanted to start something in the States.
00:02:17
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:02:18
Speaker 1: But in the back of my mind, I've always said, you know, I'd love to live in another country and really immerse myself in the culture and really, really just live there and not just visit. And I'm here.
00:02:30
Speaker 3: And there's a difference between living somewhere, visiting and then actually starting a business. Yeah.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: But for you, it was more like, from what I've read, you were starting in a market stall?
00:02:41
Speaker 1: Yes, very, very small.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker 2: Do you remember that time well?
00:02:44
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. Like it was yesterday. I mean, it was simple. It was exciting.
00:02:51
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:51
Speaker 1: I got up at, you know, four in the morning, packed my little boxes, came to the market, set it up like a little lemonade stand and just started pouring samples and telling people, what the heck Vietnamese coffee was.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: What kind of led you to that first point, right?
00:03:08
Speaker 3: Because that was really the start of the business. What made you wake up one day and go, I'm going to start a stand and see if people like this here when it's a product that no one was really asking for?
00:03:18
Speaker 1: It wasn't really, I think, this revelationary moment. A lot of things really led to that. It was actually my partner who, when he was out in California and he's I would always give him a Vietnamese coffee and he's like, this is amazing. It's like a punch in the face. And then when we came out here, I was looking for actually a job because I was in finance and sales. And he said, why don't you do something completely different? So I went, I'm like, sure, I've got my amazing resume. I went and knocked on, you know, every cafe's door and said, I'm ready for a job. And, you know, the first thing they asked was, can you make coffee? I'm like, no, but I'm a quick learner. But that wasn't good enough because you had to know how to make barista coffee. So I thought there's a market there. I just came and said, can I have a stall and can I do Vietnamese coffee?
00:04:12
Speaker 3: So what were you doing Monday to Friday while you were effectively launching a side hustle?
00:04:17
Speaker 1: Trying to find other jobs. I did end up you know, making bacon and eggs in a cafe.
00:04:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:04:23
Speaker 1: And then on the weekends, I would do my Vietnamese coffee.
00:04:26
Speaker 3: If I take you back and you think about the stall was set up, all of a sudden people were starting to line up and queue up, tell other people about it. How did you make that transition from I have a weekend stall to maybe I can open an actual store here?
00:04:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:04:41
Speaker 2: Because that feels like a big leap.
00:04:43
Speaker 1: It is. It is. And I remember the first time when in my little stall, And I built a little cart because it was setting up was a bit easier than I thought. I'm going to actually make the decision to move into a little hole in the wall shop. And, you know, rent going from $ 30 to $ 200 a week. And that big decision, that was a big decision. And it was a big real business decision at that time. And mapping out how much I'm going to make and will I make this back. And the other one was hiring my first employee. So those decisions are actually very big business decisions, at least at that time. And a lot of it came from how am I going to make my business more efficient? How is one more person going to help me elevate what I want to do and help me do more? those were good times.
00:05:43
Speaker 3: And I think so often we frame them as decisions. But, you know, when I think about them in business, I'd refer them as like the three C's. So we have to make a big choice to make a change to get that clarity of what we do next. And it sounds like those were choice change clarity.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: Moments for you. But they come with a lot of risk too.
00:06:05
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And for example, having, you know, your first employees and, and, Trying to be hands off with that, you know, and allowing that trust for your employees to do what you really believe they can do.
00:06:19
Speaker 3: Because you weren't only teaching the employees about Vietnamese coffee, you were also teaching the broader community about it. Yes.
00:06:27
Speaker 2: So how important was that early on to be able to?
00:06:29
Speaker 3: Get them to understand that this was a totally different product and to even get them to try it.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: That was fun, though. I used to be in sales, but I never thought of it as sales because I really believed in the product. So whatever it was that I was sitting in front of my clients or customers about, I truly believed in it. And immersing that culture and immersing our purpose into everything that we do, every decision that we make in the office to.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: In the shop to the team members, ensuring that I'm providing that connection with my team on the ground, my team that I work closely with. So all of those things then becomes integrated into everything that we do. And that's how it shows through, you know, the service and the product.
00:07:22
Speaker 3: Often with the founders I speak to, when they talk about scaling systems or something happened, that comes from a mistake or something just not being quite right? Did you have a not quite right moment where you're like, this isn't exactly how I want it to be, so then I have to create the system for it?
00:07:37
Speaker 1: Definitely. You know, we have a whole flowing process where we might start it out with, you know, providing good service, but what is good service, right?
00:07:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, definition is so important, right?
00:07:49
Speaker 1: It's so important. So we create something called Senses, which is... And acronyms for smile, eye contact, those little things that allow the team members to have little cues on connecting with the guests, but without it being scripted as well, too.
00:08:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you want the authenticity to come through.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:08:13
Speaker 2: I love that, Senses.
00:08:14
Speaker 3: Australians love cafe culture, and you must have noticed that when you moved out. But there's a lot of competition in the market. Like, how have you made your product really stand out within there?
00:08:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, so first, Vietnamese iced coffee is different. not prominent, not as a freestanding Vietnamese coffee shop. You'll find Vietnamese coffee in mostly every Vietnamese restaurant you go to. However, not as a freestanding shop. But it's not only just the product, but it's how we present ourselves. We're very intentional in everything that we do from our stage flow, which, you know, we have the coffee maker. We have them shake up our coffee. We drip filter it. We pour it through the tap. So everything comes together as a more immersive theater bar-like style than it would be just, you know, coming to a chill cafe or a chill coffee shop.
00:09:12
Speaker 3: And there's obviously big personal connection for you here to this brand and.
00:09:17
Speaker 2: Also to the product.
00:09:18
Speaker 3: If people were rejecting that product, did it feel even more personal?
00:09:22
Speaker 1: No, no, definitely, definitely not. We are confident in what we do, and we know we have a very different offering. And I think when people do come and try it, you know, 99% of the people love it. And we've converted many even non-coffee drinkers that are not in the coffee category to go, you know, I've never drank coffee in my life, but I only drink Annie's now.
00:09:46
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:09:47
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:09:48
Speaker 3: So Annie had proved people wanted the coffee. But coming up, she takes that tiny market stall to Shark Tank while pregnant with her first child, gets challenged on whether motherhood might slow the business down, and then has to decide what growth actually looks like when the thing customers love most about your company is you. Take me back to the stall before, because you mentioned you started with less than $ 200 in supplies. You had a market table. We had, was it $ 20, $ 30 a day in rent there? And then- something like eight months later, you were moving into a shop. What happened during the eight months that made you think, okay, I'm ready to go there now?
00:10:28
Speaker 1: A lot of it had to do with, I think every day I'm in there and as I have more guests coming back each week, it's about efficiency. And it still is till today, which is how can I do this a little bit more efficiently? How can I set up more efficiently? How can I do my washing more efficiently? How can I serve my guests more efficiently. Hence, that's why going from that trestle table to building a little cart and from like moving that cart into a little shop really helps me with my operations.
00:11:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: And I didn't think about it as operations at that time.
00:11:06
Speaker 2: You thought about it as one sequential step?
00:11:10
Speaker 1: As how do I become more efficient in You know, I'm doing all this washing. I need a proper sink. I need a place to brew my coffee more properly. I need to be able to open a lot quicker and close a lot quicker and have more time to serve my guests.
00:11:27
Speaker 3: What kind of signs were your customers giving you during that time, during that eight month period? Were there more turning up or were you getting different feedback?
00:11:35
Speaker 2: What happened then?
00:11:36
Speaker 1: They were turning up more. Okay. And they were hanging out more. So when I had the little trestle table, I put some milk crate down or they just went and grabbed some milk crate from the market. They just sat down and thought, oh, you know, if I got a little shop, then they could hang out for a little longer. And definitely those indirect feedbacks. And learning from my guests and seeing what they like and what they want and molding my business to their needs really helped me evolve the business.
00:12:09
Speaker 3: Because at the start you were running, I guess, something at the stand that had a lot of like community connection to it. And then all of a sudden you're effectively running a business, which is a different feeling altogether, right? What's something you believed about business before you started that turned out to be just completely wrong?
00:12:27
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I used to thought, and I've always wanted to start a business, and I used to think, it must take a lot of money to make money. I need to get a $ 100, 000 loan and open a big fancy shop or build something great. But I didn't realize that you just need to get started. And from... You know, my weekend hobby or just testing the market had turned out to be a business.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: And becoming a business leader. Yes.
00:13:03
Speaker 3: Which is a totally different transition from doing it yourself to leading a team who does it, right?
00:13:07
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker 2: How did you find that transition?
00:13:10
Speaker 1: I find it very exciting. I feel like I'm doing a better job than I think I give myself credit for. And I have to stop and remind myself I've, you know, built my team at the moment and I'm not in the shop. And they're, you know, upholding to the brand. So leadership, there's, as you would know, there's a lot of lessons to be learned in leadership.
00:13:43
Speaker 3: There are a lot of lessons. What's your favorite one that you've learned?
00:13:45
Speaker 1: Get out of the way.
00:13:47
Speaker 2: Were you in the way to then learn to get out of the way?
00:13:50
Speaker 1: I think so. Or at least at that time, I didn't think so. But really finding that balance between showing that I really care about this and I really want to be involved too. I completely trust you and I'll wait for the result.
00:14:09
Speaker 2: That's a very, very tricky divide to cross.
00:14:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:13
Speaker 2: So speaking of lessons, you went on Shark Tank in 2018, which is almost 10 years ago now.
00:14:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:14:20
Speaker 2: But you didn't get a deal.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: No.
00:14:22
Speaker 3: And what did you learn from that experience? And how did you stay motivated despite the rejection?
00:14:28
Speaker 1: It was very motivating. I was pregnant with my boy.
00:14:32
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:14:33
Speaker 1: And going on to Shark Tank was a bucket list. So I was happy to go on. And the business was truly very premature at that time.
00:14:43
Speaker 2: What stage was the business at when you went on to Shark Tank?
00:14:46
Speaker 1: I only had one shop at that time.
00:14:48
Speaker 3: Okay.
00:14:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I only had one shop. I knew what I had. I know where I was going to go. However, the business didn't have the right structures and systems in place to scale.
00:15:03
Speaker 2: Did you know that going in or did they give you that feedback?
00:15:07
Speaker 1: I didn't know that going in and that feedback wasn't really there, but I understood it afterwards. I understood that I needed to package my business in a way that it is scalable and sellable. And so from there, it really motivated me to not just look at the business as this is something that's got a vision, but it's something that's got real infrastructure to scale.
00:15:35
Speaker 3: That's something really interesting I find that is a common thread with founders, that they don't take rejection seriously.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: And go, well, that's it. They go, what do I take out of this? And what do I do next?
00:15:45
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. And I remember at that time, you know, Janine did say, you look like you're pregnant. You're going to have the little one. Yeah. Business might slow down a bit. And I thought, nope, it's not going to slow down after, you know, after I had my son eight months later, started my second shop. So it really gave me a lot of fire. And even when I was asked, what if you didn't get the investment? I'll still carry on because I really believe in what I'm doing.
00:16:17
Speaker 2: I'm astounded you got the pregnancy question.
00:16:19
Speaker 3: Can you take me back to the moment where you were effectively on stage in front of them and they said that? Like, is the pregnancy, is the baby going to impact your business?
00:16:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes.
00:16:30
Speaker 3: What went through your mind when you were on stage under those lights? And faced with that question?
00:16:35
Speaker 1: You know, I think they were hoping that it would faze me, but it didn't because I knew that I will become a mother and I knew that I will continue to do what I'm going to do and that my vision is very clear. It was a shocker to go, yes, I might slow down. I don't know, but that's not relevant to what I'm here for.
00:17:01
Speaker 3: With the hindsight that you have now, because obviously that was your firstborn, was there any legitimacy in their concerns around navigating becoming a mum and trying to scale this business at the same time?
00:17:13
Speaker 1: Perhaps. Perhaps there could be, but it wasn't the reason why, you know, I'm not 500 shop deep, I don't believe. I had a second baby and in that time we had COVID and we still grew from one shop to two shops to three shops to four shops, you know, while having my children. Yeah. That's not to say it wasn't challenging. One of the biggest challenge, if I may share.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Of course.
00:17:43
Speaker 1: Segwaying into motherhood and owning a business, which, you know, you might not hear as often because you hear about the business success. But in the background, one of the biggest things I had to really overcome was this mother guilt and accepting that I'm not going to have maternity leave or I'm not, the sacrifices I'll have to make as a full-time business owner is that I won't be able to drop my kids off at school every morning or pick them up every afternoon or always being at every school activity. So that was definitely a a big learning that I had to do as a business owner and as a mom that to accept me being the best mother that I could be when I'm with them.
00:18:40
Speaker 3: Coming up, Annie tells us how she protects the indispensable human connection that built her business and how she plans to make Vietnamese iced coffee a global hit. One of the things you did in the early days was you knew every customer by name.
00:18:57
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:18:58
Speaker 2: That is like an incredible feat. And it's really beautiful, right?
00:19:02
Speaker 3: Because it talks about how when you're behind the counter, you're really trying to connect with them and create that community feel. How do you replicate that across those eight stores?
00:19:13
Speaker 1: So we have little tweaks. I think I remember in the early days when I have my guests coming and I genuinely wanted to get to know them. And something I read out of an old book, How to Win Friends and Influence People.
00:19:28
Speaker 2: Dale Carnegie.
00:19:29
Speaker 1: Yes, Dale Carnegie. Yes. And a person's name is the most important word in their vocabulary. So having to learn someone's name because It really shows you're really interested in them. But I would write their name, and that helps me remember it. And we still do that till this day. And we want to make sure we spell it right. We want to make sure we say it. right but we have little little tricks um to remember our guest's name yeah like what have you got their photos on the wall like we take we take secret secret pictures of them but but the team gets really excited and they they feel really proud of it yeah we'll have somebody coming up like it's You're here for your coffee.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: Oh, there's such a good feeling as a customer.
00:20:11
Speaker 3: So when you turn up somewhere and you realize they, they know you and you feel like it's important that you go there.
00:20:16
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:17
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: And, and, and, and the team, you know, they're so proud of that. And so it's a win like to remember our guest's name. It's a win. It's not something that is, um, you know, it's what we have to do. It's building that connection and making our guests feel uplifted.
00:20:35
Speaker 2: And the loyalty that comes with that.
00:20:37
Speaker 3: One of the things as a founder myself, I love to talk to other founders about is how do you know when it's the right time to close a store? How does it feel for you though as a founder when you close a store? Um.
00:20:47
Speaker 1: It definitely is hard to say, look, you want to just always have these wins. However, I think I have a lot of support or I did have a lot of support with everybody around me and support from our guests as well, too. And they say, you know, we'll go to the other shop. We'll go to the shop nearby. So as sad as it is to close the shop and It's also very rewarding to know that you have these, you know, really great, loyal guests who said, we're going to go to the other shops that you have. Yes.
00:21:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:27
Speaker 3: So you've moved from America to Australia and you've accidentally built this Australian Vietnamese coffee brand, Annie's. The dream now includes taking Annie's to the US. Yes.
00:21:38
Speaker 2: So you're going back again.
00:21:39
Speaker 3: What would it mean personally to take the thing you built on a $ 20 table in Cairns back to the country you left?
00:21:46
Speaker 1: You know, it would be greater than, it would be much greater than, again, shop numbers or, you know, these external material success. I think I would make my parents so proud.
00:21:59
Speaker 2: They're still back there?
00:22:00
Speaker 1: They're still back there. They were immigrants to America. They didn't speak a word of English. I was this translator in the house and for me to be able to build a global business in which really uphold my heritage and my tradition would make them, you know, beyond proud. it would mean so much more than just shop numbers.
00:22:28
Speaker 3: That's so special, Annie. And I can feel the passion and your connection to the business as we talk. You've got a glimmer in your eyes when you talk about it and just so much love for it. So I hope you land back there and I can't wait to hear.
00:22:40
Speaker 2: All about it.
00:22:44
Speaker 3: Before I let you go, we like to share one useful thing before we let anyone leave the table. And that one useful thing can be something practical from your story or that they can actually use if they're thinking about starting their own business.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: Maybe they've got their own stall.
00:22:57
Speaker 3: At the moment that they're going, does this have legs?
00:22:59
Speaker 2: Could I create my own Annie's or in some kind of category?
00:23:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker 2: What would your advice be to them? Where could they start this week?
00:23:08
Speaker 1: I'd say start really, really small. You know, I didn't start out with a grand plan. In fact, start embarrassingly small.
00:23:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: Sometimes what we do is we tend to look at businesses or successful people who are already 20 chapters deep.
00:23:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: Where what we need to do is make those small incremental start and seeing where we can make that, take that action today, right now, and it will naturally and gradually build on its own. That is it.
00:23:49
Speaker 2: Excellent advice.
00:23:50
Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many embarrassing things I've done as a founder to then, you know, be sitting where you are today.
00:23:56
Speaker 2: And you're right.
00:23:56
Speaker 3: You don't want to learn from the people who are 20 chapters ahead. Who's one or two chapters ahead? Maybe connect with them and do the embarrassing thing because what have you got to lose?
00:24:05
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
00:24:06
Speaker 3: Thanks, Annie.
00:24:07
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
00:24:09
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to today's episode of Beers. And thank you so much, Annie, for joining us. Share this ep with your mates and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also connect with us on socials. on TikTok or Insta at Beers by Mama Mia.
00:24:21
Speaker 2: See you next week.
Speaker 1: Immersing that culture and immersing our purpose into everything that we do, every decision that we make in the office, in the shop, to the team members. So all of those things then becomes integrated into everything that we do. And that's how it shows through, you know, the service and the product. Thank you.
00:00:26
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Biz Work Life Sorted. I'm Lisa Lee.
00:00:29
Speaker 3: And in this season of Biz, we're talking to founders about how they built their business. I'm talking from how they came up with that first idea. So the highs, the lows.
00:00:38
Speaker 2: And all the things they've learned along the way in between.
00:00:41
Speaker 3: There's a particular kind of courage that comes from starting a business when nobody's actually asked for what you're selling. Today's guest arrived in Australia from the US in 2014. She had a background in finance and business, but when she got to Cairns, she couldn't even get a job as the local barista. So instead, She spent less than a couple of hundred dollars on supplies. She rented a tiny table at Rusty's Markets and started pouring Vietnamese.
00:01:02
Speaker 2: Iced coffee out of a pitcher.
00:01:04
Speaker 3: There was just one fairly significant problem. A lot of customers had absolutely no idea why anyone would put condensed milk in coffee. But Annie Nguyen wasn't just selling them a drink.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: She was introducing people to something from her own culture.
00:01:17
Speaker 3: And so that tiny market stall eventually became Annie's, a chain of stores across Queensland.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: And along the way, Annie has faced rejection on Shark Tank.
00:01:25
Speaker 3: She's opened stores, closed stores, made controversial decisions to protect her staff and had to answer one particularly loaded question. Can you keep growing a business built on human connection without losing the human connection that made people love it in the first place? Annie Nguyen is the founder of Annie's Welcome to Biz.
00:01:42
Speaker 2: Welcome to Biz, Annie.
00:01:43
Speaker 1: Thank you. I am thrilled to be here.
00:01:46
Speaker 3: Your story actually starts back from when you were in America and you came to Queensland on a holiday, right? Yes.
00:01:52
Speaker 1: Well, I met my partner in California. Well, actually, no, that's a lie. I met my partner in Vegas.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:01:59
Speaker 1: And what happened in Vegas should have stayed in Vegas, but I came out to Australia. Yeah. And, you know, I'm still here with my business and my babies.
00:02:08
Speaker 3: Did you ever imagine landing here and actually, you know, a decade later having started a company?
00:02:13
Speaker 1: No, no. I've always wanted to start something in the States.
00:02:17
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:02:18
Speaker 1: But in the back of my mind, I've always said, you know, I'd love to live in another country and really immerse myself in the culture and really, really just live there and not just visit. And I'm here.
00:02:30
Speaker 3: And there's a difference between living somewhere, visiting and then actually starting a business. Yeah.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: But for you, it was more like, from what I've read, you were starting in a market stall?
00:02:41
Speaker 1: Yes, very, very small.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker 2: Do you remember that time well?
00:02:44
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. Like it was yesterday. I mean, it was simple. It was exciting.
00:02:51
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:51
Speaker 1: I got up at, you know, four in the morning, packed my little boxes, came to the market, set it up like a little lemonade stand and just started pouring samples and telling people, what the heck Vietnamese coffee was.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: What kind of led you to that first point, right?
00:03:08
Speaker 3: Because that was really the start of the business. What made you wake up one day and go, I'm going to start a stand and see if people like this here when it's a product that no one was really asking for?
00:03:18
Speaker 1: It wasn't really, I think, this revelationary moment. A lot of things really led to that. It was actually my partner who, when he was out in California and he's I would always give him a Vietnamese coffee and he's like, this is amazing. It's like a punch in the face. And then when we came out here, I was looking for actually a job because I was in finance and sales. And he said, why don't you do something completely different? So I went, I'm like, sure, I've got my amazing resume. I went and knocked on, you know, every cafe's door and said, I'm ready for a job. And, you know, the first thing they asked was, can you make coffee? I'm like, no, but I'm a quick learner. But that wasn't good enough because you had to know how to make barista coffee. So I thought there's a market there. I just came and said, can I have a stall and can I do Vietnamese coffee?
00:04:12
Speaker 3: So what were you doing Monday to Friday while you were effectively launching a side hustle?
00:04:17
Speaker 1: Trying to find other jobs. I did end up you know, making bacon and eggs in a cafe.
00:04:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:04:23
Speaker 1: And then on the weekends, I would do my Vietnamese coffee.
00:04:26
Speaker 3: If I take you back and you think about the stall was set up, all of a sudden people were starting to line up and queue up, tell other people about it. How did you make that transition from I have a weekend stall to maybe I can open an actual store here?
00:04:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:04:41
Speaker 2: Because that feels like a big leap.
00:04:43
Speaker 1: It is. It is. And I remember the first time when in my little stall, And I built a little cart because it was setting up was a bit easier than I thought. I'm going to actually make the decision to move into a little hole in the wall shop. And, you know, rent going from $ 30 to $ 200 a week. And that big decision, that was a big decision. And it was a big real business decision at that time. And mapping out how much I'm going to make and will I make this back. And the other one was hiring my first employee. So those decisions are actually very big business decisions, at least at that time. And a lot of it came from how am I going to make my business more efficient? How is one more person going to help me elevate what I want to do and help me do more? those were good times.
00:05:43
Speaker 3: And I think so often we frame them as decisions. But, you know, when I think about them in business, I'd refer them as like the three C's. So we have to make a big choice to make a change to get that clarity of what we do next. And it sounds like those were choice change clarity.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: Moments for you. But they come with a lot of risk too.
00:06:05
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And for example, having, you know, your first employees and, and, Trying to be hands off with that, you know, and allowing that trust for your employees to do what you really believe they can do.
00:06:19
Speaker 3: Because you weren't only teaching the employees about Vietnamese coffee, you were also teaching the broader community about it. Yes.
00:06:27
Speaker 2: So how important was that early on to be able to?
00:06:29
Speaker 3: Get them to understand that this was a totally different product and to even get them to try it.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: That was fun, though. I used to be in sales, but I never thought of it as sales because I really believed in the product. So whatever it was that I was sitting in front of my clients or customers about, I truly believed in it. And immersing that culture and immersing our purpose into everything that we do, every decision that we make in the office to.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: In the shop to the team members, ensuring that I'm providing that connection with my team on the ground, my team that I work closely with. So all of those things then becomes integrated into everything that we do. And that's how it shows through, you know, the service and the product.
00:07:22
Speaker 3: Often with the founders I speak to, when they talk about scaling systems or something happened, that comes from a mistake or something just not being quite right? Did you have a not quite right moment where you're like, this isn't exactly how I want it to be, so then I have to create the system for it?
00:07:37
Speaker 1: Definitely. You know, we have a whole flowing process where we might start it out with, you know, providing good service, but what is good service, right?
00:07:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, definition is so important, right?
00:07:49
Speaker 1: It's so important. So we create something called Senses, which is... And acronyms for smile, eye contact, those little things that allow the team members to have little cues on connecting with the guests, but without it being scripted as well, too.
00:08:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you want the authenticity to come through.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:08:13
Speaker 2: I love that, Senses.
00:08:14
Speaker 3: Australians love cafe culture, and you must have noticed that when you moved out. But there's a lot of competition in the market. Like, how have you made your product really stand out within there?
00:08:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, so first, Vietnamese iced coffee is different. not prominent, not as a freestanding Vietnamese coffee shop. You'll find Vietnamese coffee in mostly every Vietnamese restaurant you go to. However, not as a freestanding shop. But it's not only just the product, but it's how we present ourselves. We're very intentional in everything that we do from our stage flow, which, you know, we have the coffee maker. We have them shake up our coffee. We drip filter it. We pour it through the tap. So everything comes together as a more immersive theater bar-like style than it would be just, you know, coming to a chill cafe or a chill coffee shop.
00:09:12
Speaker 3: And there's obviously big personal connection for you here to this brand and.
00:09:17
Speaker 2: Also to the product.
00:09:18
Speaker 3: If people were rejecting that product, did it feel even more personal?
00:09:22
Speaker 1: No, no, definitely, definitely not. We are confident in what we do, and we know we have a very different offering. And I think when people do come and try it, you know, 99% of the people love it. And we've converted many even non-coffee drinkers that are not in the coffee category to go, you know, I've never drank coffee in my life, but I only drink Annie's now.
00:09:46
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:09:47
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:09:48
Speaker 3: So Annie had proved people wanted the coffee. But coming up, she takes that tiny market stall to Shark Tank while pregnant with her first child, gets challenged on whether motherhood might slow the business down, and then has to decide what growth actually looks like when the thing customers love most about your company is you. Take me back to the stall before, because you mentioned you started with less than $ 200 in supplies. You had a market table. We had, was it $ 20, $ 30 a day in rent there? And then- something like eight months later, you were moving into a shop. What happened during the eight months that made you think, okay, I'm ready to go there now?
00:10:28
Speaker 1: A lot of it had to do with, I think every day I'm in there and as I have more guests coming back each week, it's about efficiency. And it still is till today, which is how can I do this a little bit more efficiently? How can I set up more efficiently? How can I do my washing more efficiently? How can I serve my guests more efficiently. Hence, that's why going from that trestle table to building a little cart and from like moving that cart into a little shop really helps me with my operations.
00:11:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: And I didn't think about it as operations at that time.
00:11:06
Speaker 2: You thought about it as one sequential step?
00:11:10
Speaker 1: As how do I become more efficient in You know, I'm doing all this washing. I need a proper sink. I need a place to brew my coffee more properly. I need to be able to open a lot quicker and close a lot quicker and have more time to serve my guests.
00:11:27
Speaker 3: What kind of signs were your customers giving you during that time, during that eight month period? Were there more turning up or were you getting different feedback?
00:11:35
Speaker 2: What happened then?
00:11:36
Speaker 1: They were turning up more. Okay. And they were hanging out more. So when I had the little trestle table, I put some milk crate down or they just went and grabbed some milk crate from the market. They just sat down and thought, oh, you know, if I got a little shop, then they could hang out for a little longer. And definitely those indirect feedbacks. And learning from my guests and seeing what they like and what they want and molding my business to their needs really helped me evolve the business.
00:12:09
Speaker 3: Because at the start you were running, I guess, something at the stand that had a lot of like community connection to it. And then all of a sudden you're effectively running a business, which is a different feeling altogether, right? What's something you believed about business before you started that turned out to be just completely wrong?
00:12:27
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I used to thought, and I've always wanted to start a business, and I used to think, it must take a lot of money to make money. I need to get a $ 100, 000 loan and open a big fancy shop or build something great. But I didn't realize that you just need to get started. And from... You know, my weekend hobby or just testing the market had turned out to be a business.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: And becoming a business leader. Yes.
00:13:03
Speaker 3: Which is a totally different transition from doing it yourself to leading a team who does it, right?
00:13:07
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker 2: How did you find that transition?
00:13:10
Speaker 1: I find it very exciting. I feel like I'm doing a better job than I think I give myself credit for. And I have to stop and remind myself I've, you know, built my team at the moment and I'm not in the shop. And they're, you know, upholding to the brand. So leadership, there's, as you would know, there's a lot of lessons to be learned in leadership.
00:13:43
Speaker 3: There are a lot of lessons. What's your favorite one that you've learned?
00:13:45
Speaker 1: Get out of the way.
00:13:47
Speaker 2: Were you in the way to then learn to get out of the way?
00:13:50
Speaker 1: I think so. Or at least at that time, I didn't think so. But really finding that balance between showing that I really care about this and I really want to be involved too. I completely trust you and I'll wait for the result.
00:14:09
Speaker 2: That's a very, very tricky divide to cross.
00:14:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:13
Speaker 2: So speaking of lessons, you went on Shark Tank in 2018, which is almost 10 years ago now.
00:14:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:14:20
Speaker 2: But you didn't get a deal.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: No.
00:14:22
Speaker 3: And what did you learn from that experience? And how did you stay motivated despite the rejection?
00:14:28
Speaker 1: It was very motivating. I was pregnant with my boy.
00:14:32
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:14:33
Speaker 1: And going on to Shark Tank was a bucket list. So I was happy to go on. And the business was truly very premature at that time.
00:14:43
Speaker 2: What stage was the business at when you went on to Shark Tank?
00:14:46
Speaker 1: I only had one shop at that time.
00:14:48
Speaker 3: Okay.
00:14:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I only had one shop. I knew what I had. I know where I was going to go. However, the business didn't have the right structures and systems in place to scale.
00:15:03
Speaker 2: Did you know that going in or did they give you that feedback?
00:15:07
Speaker 1: I didn't know that going in and that feedback wasn't really there, but I understood it afterwards. I understood that I needed to package my business in a way that it is scalable and sellable. And so from there, it really motivated me to not just look at the business as this is something that's got a vision, but it's something that's got real infrastructure to scale.
00:15:35
Speaker 3: That's something really interesting I find that is a common thread with founders, that they don't take rejection seriously.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: And go, well, that's it. They go, what do I take out of this? And what do I do next?
00:15:45
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. And I remember at that time, you know, Janine did say, you look like you're pregnant. You're going to have the little one. Yeah. Business might slow down a bit. And I thought, nope, it's not going to slow down after, you know, after I had my son eight months later, started my second shop. So it really gave me a lot of fire. And even when I was asked, what if you didn't get the investment? I'll still carry on because I really believe in what I'm doing.
00:16:17
Speaker 2: I'm astounded you got the pregnancy question.
00:16:19
Speaker 3: Can you take me back to the moment where you were effectively on stage in front of them and they said that? Like, is the pregnancy, is the baby going to impact your business?
00:16:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes.
00:16:30
Speaker 3: What went through your mind when you were on stage under those lights? And faced with that question?
00:16:35
Speaker 1: You know, I think they were hoping that it would faze me, but it didn't because I knew that I will become a mother and I knew that I will continue to do what I'm going to do and that my vision is very clear. It was a shocker to go, yes, I might slow down. I don't know, but that's not relevant to what I'm here for.
00:17:01
Speaker 3: With the hindsight that you have now, because obviously that was your firstborn, was there any legitimacy in their concerns around navigating becoming a mum and trying to scale this business at the same time?
00:17:13
Speaker 1: Perhaps. Perhaps there could be, but it wasn't the reason why, you know, I'm not 500 shop deep, I don't believe. I had a second baby and in that time we had COVID and we still grew from one shop to two shops to three shops to four shops, you know, while having my children. Yeah. That's not to say it wasn't challenging. One of the biggest challenge, if I may share.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Of course.
00:17:43
Speaker 1: Segwaying into motherhood and owning a business, which, you know, you might not hear as often because you hear about the business success. But in the background, one of the biggest things I had to really overcome was this mother guilt and accepting that I'm not going to have maternity leave or I'm not, the sacrifices I'll have to make as a full-time business owner is that I won't be able to drop my kids off at school every morning or pick them up every afternoon or always being at every school activity. So that was definitely a a big learning that I had to do as a business owner and as a mom that to accept me being the best mother that I could be when I'm with them.
00:18:40
Speaker 3: Coming up, Annie tells us how she protects the indispensable human connection that built her business and how she plans to make Vietnamese iced coffee a global hit. One of the things you did in the early days was you knew every customer by name.
00:18:57
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:18:58
Speaker 2: That is like an incredible feat. And it's really beautiful, right?
00:19:02
Speaker 3: Because it talks about how when you're behind the counter, you're really trying to connect with them and create that community feel. How do you replicate that across those eight stores?
00:19:13
Speaker 1: So we have little tweaks. I think I remember in the early days when I have my guests coming and I genuinely wanted to get to know them. And something I read out of an old book, How to Win Friends and Influence People.
00:19:28
Speaker 2: Dale Carnegie.
00:19:29
Speaker 1: Yes, Dale Carnegie. Yes. And a person's name is the most important word in their vocabulary. So having to learn someone's name because It really shows you're really interested in them. But I would write their name, and that helps me remember it. And we still do that till this day. And we want to make sure we spell it right. We want to make sure we say it. right but we have little little tricks um to remember our guest's name yeah like what have you got their photos on the wall like we take we take secret secret pictures of them but but the team gets really excited and they they feel really proud of it yeah we'll have somebody coming up like it's You're here for your coffee.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: Oh, there's such a good feeling as a customer.
00:20:11
Speaker 3: So when you turn up somewhere and you realize they, they know you and you feel like it's important that you go there.
00:20:16
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:17
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: And, and, and, and the team, you know, they're so proud of that. And so it's a win like to remember our guest's name. It's a win. It's not something that is, um, you know, it's what we have to do. It's building that connection and making our guests feel uplifted.
00:20:35
Speaker 2: And the loyalty that comes with that.
00:20:37
Speaker 3: One of the things as a founder myself, I love to talk to other founders about is how do you know when it's the right time to close a store? How does it feel for you though as a founder when you close a store? Um.
00:20:47
Speaker 1: It definitely is hard to say, look, you want to just always have these wins. However, I think I have a lot of support or I did have a lot of support with everybody around me and support from our guests as well, too. And they say, you know, we'll go to the other shop. We'll go to the shop nearby. So as sad as it is to close the shop and It's also very rewarding to know that you have these, you know, really great, loyal guests who said, we're going to go to the other shops that you have. Yes.
00:21:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:27
Speaker 3: So you've moved from America to Australia and you've accidentally built this Australian Vietnamese coffee brand, Annie's. The dream now includes taking Annie's to the US. Yes.
00:21:38
Speaker 2: So you're going back again.
00:21:39
Speaker 3: What would it mean personally to take the thing you built on a $ 20 table in Cairns back to the country you left?
00:21:46
Speaker 1: You know, it would be greater than, it would be much greater than, again, shop numbers or, you know, these external material success. I think I would make my parents so proud.
00:21:59
Speaker 2: They're still back there?
00:22:00
Speaker 1: They're still back there. They were immigrants to America. They didn't speak a word of English. I was this translator in the house and for me to be able to build a global business in which really uphold my heritage and my tradition would make them, you know, beyond proud. it would mean so much more than just shop numbers.
00:22:28
Speaker 3: That's so special, Annie. And I can feel the passion and your connection to the business as we talk. You've got a glimmer in your eyes when you talk about it and just so much love for it. So I hope you land back there and I can't wait to hear.
00:22:40
Speaker 2: All about it.
00:22:44
Speaker 3: Before I let you go, we like to share one useful thing before we let anyone leave the table. And that one useful thing can be something practical from your story or that they can actually use if they're thinking about starting their own business.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: Maybe they've got their own stall.
00:22:57
Speaker 3: At the moment that they're going, does this have legs?
00:22:59
Speaker 2: Could I create my own Annie's or in some kind of category?
00:23:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker 2: What would your advice be to them? Where could they start this week?
00:23:08
Speaker 1: I'd say start really, really small. You know, I didn't start out with a grand plan. In fact, start embarrassingly small.
00:23:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: Sometimes what we do is we tend to look at businesses or successful people who are already 20 chapters deep.
00:23:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: Where what we need to do is make those small incremental start and seeing where we can make that, take that action today, right now, and it will naturally and gradually build on its own. That is it.
00:23:49
Speaker 2: Excellent advice.
00:23:50
Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many embarrassing things I've done as a founder to then, you know, be sitting where you are today.
00:23:56
Speaker 2: And you're right.
00:23:56
Speaker 3: You don't want to learn from the people who are 20 chapters ahead. Who's one or two chapters ahead? Maybe connect with them and do the embarrassing thing because what have you got to lose?
00:24:05
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
00:24:06
Speaker 3: Thanks, Annie.
00:24:07
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
00:24:09
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to today's episode of Beers. And thank you so much, Annie, for joining us. Share this ep with your mates and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also connect with us on socials. on TikTok or Insta at Beers by Mama Mia.
00:24:21
Speaker 2: See you next week.
