Node2Shell Exploit Hits OpenAI Stack - Gold Drops as Iran War Fears Escalate

WEBVTT
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I don't know. 4B2BBBBBBBB 104 ,000 TLS certificates
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are being revoked by GoDaddy right now, and
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that's just one piece of a cybersecurity crisis,
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absolutely tearing through global infrastructure. The PHP 2
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Shell is being actively exploited in the wild,
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according to AWS. And Node to Shell just
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got demonstrated on the official node .js24 .220
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image, with older versions left permanently unpatched. This
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hits everything from hospitals to crypto exchanges running
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on this infrastructure. It's a huge, huge problem.
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We'll talk about that tonight. And right alongside
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it, of course, oil just ripped above 117
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a barrel as U .S. Iran tensions spike
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toward what Trump's own envoy called an absolutely
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possible strike this weekend. Gold, meanwhile, is falling
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even as war fears rise. We'll get into
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a Bitcoin security debate as well that's got
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the community fact -checking Chama. in real time.
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My name is Joey. This is Bitcast. As
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I look for the BitCast intro, here it
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is right here. Okay, here we go. The
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issue is not red or blue. The issue
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is between the state and you. It can
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be a little bit of a warning sign.
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It gives you a tool to empower. That
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sounds like a utopia, my friend. It is.
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It's exactly a utopia. can take it from
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you. Okay, boys. Well, we have a bit
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of a problem here, obviously. There's been a
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number of hacks, a number of issues, a
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number of whatever. But first, before we start,
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it's good to see both of you. Dave,
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I think this is your maybe second, first
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or second appearance on Bitcast. Have you been
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on BitCast before? I don't think so. I
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don't even know what BitCast was until like
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an hour ago. No, go on that. Yeah,
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we don't like that. That's not very good.
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We're happy to have you anyway. Dave, you
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may know who his Bitcoin brains on Twitter.
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I was just telling Joe before the show
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that Dave has the record for best Twitter
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thread. If you haven't seen how to cook
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a steak yet, go check it out. Okay,
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so, I mean, this is a big problem.
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We talked about this a little bit on
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Wednesday, but the story's been obviously continuing to
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develop. You have huge hosters, huge DNS providers,
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registrars, companies that are using this infrastructure. This
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thing is, um, PHP has been around for
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a long time. Basically, it was a Canadian
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guy who back in the 90s coded up
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this side project, um, he called a PHP,
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which stood at the time and still does,
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I guess, for personal homepage. And accidentally, because
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it was so easy to use and build
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on, basically three quarters of the internet uses
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this now as their backbone. And there's a
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problem with the security of this product, uh,
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much like every other product in the, in
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the space and in, you know, the sort
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of digital realm broadly, there's just no end
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to the vulnerabilities being found. You know, we've
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obviously had Altman talking about this as well
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over the last few days and saying that
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it's going to get worse before it gets
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better. That was one of the quotes from
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an anthropic employee, actually. But these guys are
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not slowing down. Major banks detecting unauthorized AI
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agents accessing customer accounts. Now, this is interesting
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because banks in the past and maybe in
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the recent past, more than the distant past,
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more than the distant past, have been. discussing
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amongst themselves and trying to convince regulators as
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well that AI agents, as far as, like,
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access to normal customer accounts is a negative.
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They say it's a security risk. They say
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it's dangerous for normal users to allow this
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kind of behavior because they just don't know
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what's going on. In fact, I think it's
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possible that bank users are becoming more sophisticated
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and these banks fear that if there's a
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simple way for users to move their funds
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and that removes some of these points of
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friction, they will see deposit flight and they'll
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be forced to compete, heaven forbid. We'll talk
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about that a little bit. And then this
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other story about the PHP 2 Shell and
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Node 2 Shell, another critical bug found by
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Open AI's Codex that can unlock these issues
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that have been present for a long time.
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We kind of discussed this on Wednesday, but
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it bears repeating that the model that found
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these problems was not six, not six point
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one, but five. 5 .6 .6. So we're
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talking models from, you know, six months ago,
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five months ago, something like that, a long
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while back. And I don't know, boys, Joe,
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I'll start with you. You know, obviously there's
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a bank angle here. There's a cybersecurity angle.
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And I think there's also probably a Bitcoin
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angle. Where's your money really safe these days?
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A lot of people saying Bitcoin, not the
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safest way to store your money, too much
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responsibility. No way to call customer service if
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something goes wrong. But man, it's starting to
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feel like the opposite is true. Yeah, I
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mean, it's interesting, you know, Chimov at the
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exact same time he's rallying against the fact
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that Bitcoin's going to go to zero for
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whatever reason he gave this time. It's all
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cope. You're seeing, I think, 3 % of
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all of what is considered to be critical
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infrastructure hacks on the internet to have occurred
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in the last week, right? And lo -mhold,
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none of them have to do with Bitcoin,
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right? So it's kind of hilarious and really
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unsettling and kind of troubling at the exact
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same time that all of this is coming
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to ahead. And it took a model that
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wasn't even all that powerful to do it.
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Yeah, Dave, where do you come down on
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this? You got any thoughts on this big
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cybersecurity issue? You know, continuing to expand here
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while you're giving your thoughts. I'll pull up
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the latest from AWS as well. Yeah, I
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mean, Bitcoin was kind of like the canary
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and the coal mine, right? It made sense
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that the moment that this sort of level
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of cybersecurity attack was possible with AI, that
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they would go after Bitcoin first. You know,
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it's the most direct way to steal. money
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is to go after Bitcoin companies and products.
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And we saw that obviously with the cold
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card and another subsequent hacks that we've seen.
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And I think what we're going to see
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in the broader sort of like tech and
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finance ecosystems is very similar to what we've
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seen in Bitcoin, where you know, you had
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the Bitcoin Red team out there, hardening everything,
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scanning everything. And ultimately, that's the only thing
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that's going to get us through this risk
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is using the same AI to scan and
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plug those holes. because eventually there will be,
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you know, they'll run out of holes. There's
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only so many iterations to the AI that
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can find new holes. And so I think
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the rest of the world is just like
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a couple months behind. And, you know, the
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silver lining might be that this will probably
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force a lot of companies to start rethinking,
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you know, what software they use and why.
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There's this epidemic across, you know, government especially,
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but any kind of large -scale enterprise where
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they're just using like old and stupid software
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because no one wants to bother to upgrade.
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And, you know, now we're in this spot
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where they're going to be forced to upgrade.
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And, you know, that hopefully will lead to
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fewer things like dealing with government systems that
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were probably started in the 90s. You know,
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those will all have to be modernized and
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AI -proofed. Yeah, at minimum. And speaking of
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government, it's, you know, sort of. is worth
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mentioning here that Wikipedia Steam and some government
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websites, including here in Canada. Canada took down
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a number of websites are AI and tech
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minister Evan Solomon, the art dealer, as he's
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known, talking about how we had to pull
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down a bunch of websites for security reasons
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and vulnerability reasons. I want to ask you
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guys, because we talk a lot about, you
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know, sort of the difference between keeping your
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coins on exchange and self -custody and some
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of the pros and cons and tradeoffs. We
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also talked not long ago about the AriPol
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claims that Coinbase was subject to a hack
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and lost something in the neighborhood of $25
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million that, you know, and some of that
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belonged to his firm and his, whatever, his
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outfit there. They denied it, obviously, as any
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competent company would, I think. But it makes
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you wonder, and I, you know, I want
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to get your thoughts, Joe, on this first.
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You know, you see all these hacks landing
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over and over and over again on, I
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mean, government is one thing. But to have,
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like, Steam, Wikipedia, a few other sort of
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outfits you would consider to be. be, if
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not on the cutting edge of tech and
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security a little bit, at least closer than
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governments are. These guys are getting hit. And
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Coinbase, obviously, would be a super honeypot. As
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both you guys mentioned, Bitcoin and Crypto broadly
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are a nice place to really try some
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of the horsepower you have with some of
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these open -weight, open source models as far
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as attacking and trying to find holes. Is
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it reasonable, you think, to assume? that Coinbase,
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Cracken, some of these other exchanges have actually
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been compromised and they're just either not talking
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about it. They're telling, they're telling, maybe not
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market participants, but news outlets to not cover
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it, stuff like this. It's hard for me
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to imagine that they're not getting hit when
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they would be the most obvious honeypots for
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this kind of, this kind of offensive effort.
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Right. I would imagine you might start seeing
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news about it in the coming days or,
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I mean, you got to, you got to,
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I don't think. that they would be paying
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a news outlet to not cover it. And
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I think if they were, then the news
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outlet would go for it because consider the
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public zeitgeist toward Bitcoin right now is largely
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bundled in with the crypto garbage, especially from
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FTX. It's super popular to talk about this
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stuff. And I think it would be major
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mainstream headline news. Like Coffeyzilla made most of
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his entire brand talking about this stuff. So
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I think if this did happen and when
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it does happen, inevitably, I think that it's
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going to be national news. Everybody wants to
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catch the next FTX to report on it.
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So it seems for now, at least I
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would surmise that all systems are go. But
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given what happened with the Coinbase hack and
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the fact that that wasn't really widely reported
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at the time, you know, it might already
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be occurring. So that's kind of disconcerting. I
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also saw somebody tweet today. Dana, who is
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a regular on the Bitcoin Today show, she
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tweeted out that her uncle, his Charles Schwab
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account was hacked into. And they tried moving
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a few million dollars in funds only for
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him to notice it. put a stop to
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it by contacting Charles Schwab. So internet security,
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as we know it, it seems is kind
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of going out the window. And I think,
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yeah, you know, crypto exchanges or I think,
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I think the first vector will be individual
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accounts because as far as security is concerned,
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that's much more low -hanging fruit, right? So
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that's that's kind of what I would, what
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I would observe, expect a lot more of
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those different stories to be cropping up. I'm
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curious, you know, about this, this idea that,
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I mean, if you think about coins, base.
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Coinbase is, I don't want to say too
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big to fail, but I'll, you know, I'll
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put it to you guys. It feels to
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me like with the number of Bitcoin they
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hold for ETFs, for MSTR, for all these
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other different, you know, the suit and tie
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type investment vehicles that are Bitcoin adjacent or
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Bitcoin related, I do really feel like maybe
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you're right, Joe, they wouldn't be paying news
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orgs to not report on this, but the
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government instead would be stepping in and saying,
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hey, this is a trillion dollar, trillion and
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a half, dollar asset class even more, I
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think if you include like all the garbage
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those guys have on their platform. Is it
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possible that these guys are saying to themselves,
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look, we need to upgrade our security for
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sure, but we are unwilling to have any
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downtime to do it, which means the technical
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deficits will persist on the network, right? The
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same way that your doctor's office is, you
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know, they're, the hospitals, whatever, that you go
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to, the reason their software and their internal
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sort of machinations are so slum, because they
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can never go offline to tear down and
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rebuild, right? They have to be online all
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the time. It feels to me like Coinbase
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is almost in the same boat now. And
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they got there very suddenly, unlike hospitals and
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schools or electrical grids or whatever, you know,
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who have decades of technical deficit from a
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totally bygone era. These guys have recent software,
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recent security measures, and now find themselves, I
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think I'm prepared to update as quickly as
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they need to. Dave, I'll pass to you
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here. is there something to be said for
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the coinbase and the other big exchanges being
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characterized as too big to fail by the
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White House, too big to fail by other
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governments even, who knows? And this idea of
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technical deficits that they just weren't ready to
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put a pause on to tear down and
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rebuild, given that probably a lot of them,
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especially like you're kind of, I don't want
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to say it, but you're kind of in
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the middle of a run in price, right?
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People are interested. They're buying. There's probably a
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little more volume than if there was a
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bare, market in front of us. You know,
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give me, give me your thoughts there. Don't
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let me, don't let me change your smoking
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cadence, but give me your thoughts when you're
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ready. Yeah, so technical deficit is less of
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an issue than it used to be. Like,
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in the days of AI, you can rebuild
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something quite quickly in a new language or
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on a new dependency or something like that.
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So I don't think that's the issue. All
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of these companies, Coinbeast Cracken Included, will have
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been getting hit with the full, force of
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whatever the Chinese own weight models can do
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wielded by the best North Korean hackers in
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the world. And, you know, so the last
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couple months, that's been happening undoubtedly. And there
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is a bigger risk. There's a different risk
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here with Coinbase than there is with the
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attacks happening on the current financial system. I
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agree right now, like, those individual accounts are
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probably what they're going to be going after.
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But like, if North Korea were to get
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full route access to bank account. of America,
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for example. It's not like they can just
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send themselves all the money, right? There's no,
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there's no account for them to land in.
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There's, there's a series of trusted intermediaries in
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between to even send a wire to Asia
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at all. So it's, it's not quite the
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same custody risk that it is with Bitcoin,
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whereas, you know, if they were able to
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get into Coinbase in its entirety and get
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into the cold storage, they could take all
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of the money. And I think the cold
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card hack just showed us like we're we're
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now in an era where just being offline
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having your cold storage offline does not necessarily
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make you safe right so how are those
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keys generated who is involved in the generation
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of those keys what other factors could put
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those coins at risk and any corners that
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have been cut in all of those processes
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they will uh you know they'll be found
340
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and so we're about to find out i
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guess is how good is Coinbase security? And,
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you know, if they get hacked for $20
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million, that's not going to, it's not going
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to compromise customer funds. It's not going to
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break the bank for a giant crypto casino
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like that, but it will potentially shake the
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faith of those who have their, you know,
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multi hundreds of billions of dollars in the
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Coinbase custody. But, you know, I'm not all
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that worried about that as a final outcome
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because my view on Coinbase and the ETFs
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and, and micro strategy and everything, is that
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they're essentially just, they're lining up the coins
354
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for the next 6102, right? They're getting as
355
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many coins into the effect of custody of
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the U .S. government before they take them.
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And it'd be pretty funny if North Korea
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took them first, right? Okay, let me ask
359
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you this. The goal, I think, from a
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government, for example, let's go, we'll say North
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Korea, just to keep the example fresh here.
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I don't think the goal would necessarily be
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to take the funds. The goal would be
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to show the funds aren't safe and force
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a modern system. society into a bit of
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chaos, which let's face it, we're not equipped
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for, okay? We just don't have that sort
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of build over here in most of Canada,
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most of the United States. I kind of
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think that it's starting to work a little
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bit, and I hate to say it, but
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I look at like the messaging from the
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big AI firms. And I think if there
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was a foreign government trying to use these
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big AI firms to pass messaging that would
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be destabilizing to society, what would they ask?
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the big AI firms to say. They're saying
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it. The guy from Anthropic yesterday talking about
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things are going to get so much worse
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before they get better. Altman's saying that they
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have capabilities that no one is ready for.
382
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And if they get out, it's a problem.
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They're announcing today, they're training all their models
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offline. And I just think to myself, like,
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if I was a guy in Asia or
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the Middle East or some other place that
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didn't want America specifically to be successful and
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remain sort of this like bastion of freedom
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and democracy and capitalism -ish, this is the
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things I, these are things I'd be telling
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the CEOs to say. And I don't know
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what, what responsibility any of these guys have
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to society, quote unquote. Like, I don't necessarily
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think that any corporate CEO has responsibility to
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keep people happy, fed, you know, bread and
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circuses, all that stuff. But they do, I
397
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think, have a responsibility to do things like
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responsibly disclose new capabilities, to responsibly disclose new
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vulnerabilities, to responsibly keep people informed without alarming
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them. Dave, do you think they've done that
401
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or do you think that this is the
402
00:17:51.560 --> 00:17:53.440
opposite of what's going on or somewhere in
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00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.280
between? I think alarm is an appropriate response
404
00:17:57.280 --> 00:17:59.340
at the moment. Like, this is the last
405
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two days have been the worst two days
406
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in history for cybersecurity. And if you are
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managing a system of any kind and you're
408
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.260
not spending significant time looking at your security
409
00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:13.480
of your systems, then you're negligent right now.
410
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And so it is like an all hands
411
00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:20.060
-on deck type of thing. More and more,
412
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you know, we kind of saw the American
413
00:18:22.300 --> 00:18:27.180
labs race to make the smartest possible model
414
00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:29.480
until early June when Fable came out and
415
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they were like, oh, shit, we can't let
416
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:35.160
normal people have shit this smart. And they
417
00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.780
all kind of pulled back. But at the
418
00:18:37.780 --> 00:18:39.680
same time, like, do you think the Chinese
419
00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:41.800
are slowing down? Do you think the Chinese
420
00:18:41.800 --> 00:18:44.400
have released their best stuff? Do you think
421
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the North Koreans have stopped trying to train
422
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a smarter model? Like, the only defense against
423
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.440
the frontier models is a frontier model. Yeah,
424
00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:57.820
I agree with that big time. I said
425
00:18:57.820 --> 00:19:00.220
as much to the anthropic guy on Twitter,
426
00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:01.700
which is weird. He liked the tweet and
427
00:19:01.700 --> 00:19:02.880
then didn't reply. Joe, where do you come
428
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.380
down on the responsibilities of these people who,
429
00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:07.220
by the way, none of whom, the entire
430
00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:09.360
board, the entire C -suite, no one benching
431
00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:12.420
225. it's very shameful and I think we'd
432
00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:13.880
be a lot better off if we forced
433
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:15.720
that as a requirement but anyway go ahead
434
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yeah make me the combine all of them
435
00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:19.020
in the one entity and make me the
436
00:19:19.020 --> 00:19:21.380
CEO now what we'll do is we'll get
437
00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:23.400
up there we'll do we'll have Dario Altman
438
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:24.880
I know all they can't do it he's
439
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:29.340
a homosexual vegan but he will we'll have
440
00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:30.360
it I don't want to get the channel
441
00:19:30.360 --> 00:19:33.580
banned while the boys are right we'll do
442
00:19:33.580 --> 00:19:35.580
a bench press context like the NFL combine
443
00:19:35.580 --> 00:19:36.920
that's what we can do I was it
444
00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:38.760
on TVPN it'll be great that's how we
445
00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:40.820
figure out that's how we ensure proper security
446
00:19:40.820 --> 00:19:43.200
no i think that um for for anthropropic
447
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.920
mostly it's kind of a marketing tactic i
448
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.800
think that's i i would believe it a
449
00:19:46.800 --> 00:19:48.300
little bit more had there not been that
450
00:19:48.300 --> 00:19:50.300
hilarious clip outside of the white house south
451
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lawn of all of the press asking them
452
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.080
about it and dario having a hissy fit
453
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saying like oh it's gonna end humanity and
454
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then all the other guys were like looking
455
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at each other and kind of giggling they're
456
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laughing so i think it's primarily a marketing
457
00:20:01.120 --> 00:20:04.500
tactic for now um which which does sell
458
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quite well i mean uh however they're getting
459
00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:10.700
scarily good scarily really quickly, right? Their ability
460
00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:12.500
to do things and analyze things and to
461
00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.220
figure things out, it's getting a little bit,
462
00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:17.320
a little bit terrifying. So there are two
463
00:20:17.320 --> 00:20:19.120
things we can do, to your point. Like,
464
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number one, we can sort of say, all
465
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right, halt all development. Let's slow the frontier.
466
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Let's pace this thing. Or we can say,
467
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let's lean full tilt into this. Let's take
468
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a ton of federal resources and pour it
469
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into figuring out how to secure our country
470
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at a federal level from this, not like
471
00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:33.660
Patriot Act level stuff. But I mean, like
472
00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:36.760
figuring out how we can do all of
473
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these things and secure ourselves as a nation.
474
00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:40.620
at the federal level and at the individual
475
00:20:40.620 --> 00:20:43.660
level, at private level, rather, before North Korea
476
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does, right? They're not paced in the frontier.
477
00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:48.300
China isn't pacing the frontier. China is still,
478
00:20:48.300 --> 00:20:50.480
you know, it hasn't slowed down its major
479
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.020
export of intellectual property theft. And so they're
480
00:20:53.020 --> 00:20:55.380
stealing everything we're building. They're building the models
481
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as fast as they can. They're obviously, you
482
00:20:57.900 --> 00:21:00.420
know, they're the only benefactor of North Korea.
483
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:02.160
They're the reason North Koreans have any food
484
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.400
at all. And so they're helping them out
485
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.640
too. Now it's not the time to pace
486
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.320
the frontier. Now is the time to accelerate,
487
00:21:08.320 --> 00:21:09.560
right? If this is the future, we're heading
488
00:21:09.560 --> 00:21:11.760
into Pandora's box has already been opened, but
489
00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:13.040
you got a lean full tilt into this
490
00:21:13.040 --> 00:21:16.060
thing. Yeah, looking forward to that. If you
491
00:21:16.060 --> 00:21:17.980
wanted to make a case that you want
492
00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:21.300
to increase the overall safety of AI, it's
493
00:21:21.300 --> 00:21:22.980
very similar to the gun argument, right? It's
494
00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:26.800
the, the safest thing that can happen for
495
00:21:26.800 --> 00:21:29.560
the largest number of people is to put
496
00:21:29.560 --> 00:21:32.680
the capabilities in the hands of the individual.
497
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And then that individual can decide how they
498
00:21:34.840 --> 00:21:37.220
use those capabilities to protect themselves, their home,
499
00:21:37.220 --> 00:21:40.780
their business. and that's very opposite of what
500
00:21:40.780 --> 00:21:42.840
the governments want, right? They're not actually worried
501
00:21:42.840 --> 00:21:48.740
about, you know, Fable as a cybersecurity tool
502
00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:51.900
for the individual. They're worried that if this
503
00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:54.300
AI gets smart enough, it's going to start
504
00:21:54.300 --> 00:21:57.260
challenging those structures of power that keep them
505
00:21:57.260 --> 00:22:00.220
in place. And, you know, I don't see
506
00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:04.400
any likelihood that the machine powering the United
507
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.340
States economy just suddenly decides to say, we're
508
00:22:07.340 --> 00:22:09.720
going to open source our golden goose. But
509
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if you were actually worried about the safety
510
00:22:12.260 --> 00:22:14.980
as your top priority, that would be the
511
00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:17.900
move, is to give the best of what
512
00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:19.680
you have to everyone and let them defend
513
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.660
themselves. Yeah. There's, I mean, there's a lot
514
00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:26.000
to be said for the likelihood that the
515
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.840
U .S. gives up any advantage that they
516
00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:31.460
have, including, by the way, telling the AI
517
00:22:31.460 --> 00:22:33.260
companies to stop with this pacing the frontier
518
00:22:33.260 --> 00:22:35.540
thing. I look forward to Sam Altman's Gaytriot
519
00:22:35.540 --> 00:22:40.660
Act personally. Let's look at the most recent
520
00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:43.900
hype cycle in gold is not what you
521
00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:46.480
think. Okay? It's not shiny rock go up.
522
00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:50.340
It's not the debasement trade. It is alchemy.
523
00:22:50.340 --> 00:22:54.040
I mean, there's word from people, again, nobody
524
00:22:54.040 --> 00:22:57.760
in these videos benching or squatting 225, talking
525
00:22:57.760 --> 00:23:00.280
about how they have achieved some level of
526
00:23:00.280 --> 00:23:02.860
alchemy related to turning mercury into gold. I
527
00:23:02.860 --> 00:23:03.880
think I have that right. I got to
528
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:05.160
be honest, I didn't look at it. It's
529
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:06.780
not in the notes. Surprisingly, none of it.
530
00:23:06.780 --> 00:23:09.340
of us put in the notes, but amidst
531
00:23:09.340 --> 00:23:12.960
all this other chaos, gold falling below $4
532
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.080
,000 an ounce for the first time in
533
00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:18.080
a while, down 15 % from the August
534
00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:22.980
25th high. Meanwhile, obviously, or maybe not so
535
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.000
much, oil pushing up past $117 .17 bucks
536
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.580
a barrel. The Albertans love that. There's obviously
537
00:23:29.580 --> 00:23:33.340
more conflict starting in Iran between the U
538
00:23:33.340 --> 00:23:35.580
.S. and the boys in the Middle East.
539
00:23:35.580 --> 00:23:40.060
There's just a net. never ending sort of
540
00:23:40.060 --> 00:23:42.780
like conflict cycle that is driving now, I
541
00:23:42.780 --> 00:23:45.600
think, commodity prices, dare I say, more than
542
00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:49.120
the debasement trade. Without reading all these tweets,
543
00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:50.180
you know, you guys have seen these, I'm
544
00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:51.680
sure, and people listening and watching have seen
545
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.080
this, so I won't bore them with the
546
00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:55.060
details, but they're out there for you. U
547
00:23:55.060 --> 00:23:58.340
.S. saying there might be a strike. I
548
00:23:58.340 --> 00:23:59.880
understand there's going to be a meeting between
549
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:01.580
Trump and Putin that Zelensky's not going to
550
00:24:01.580 --> 00:24:03.100
be invited to in the next little while.
551
00:24:03.100 --> 00:24:04.500
I think China is also going to be
552
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:06.240
evolved in that. There's quite a bit going
553
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.640
on. terms of the K -Fabe of sort
554
00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.920
of day -to -day conflict theater, who are
555
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.280
we fighting, how are we fighting them, what's
556
00:24:15.280 --> 00:24:17.080
the most important thing about the fight, and
557
00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:19.600
maybe on the side of that, although not
558
00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:22.820
for us, obviously as retail investors, what is
559
00:24:22.820 --> 00:24:25.560
the market doing as a result? And when
560
00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:28.960
I look at stuff like gold alchemy, not
561
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.240
really moving the price that much, is it
562
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:33.840
lower? Yes. But did I expect it to
563
00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:37.440
be a hit a little harder? maybe uh
564
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:38.620
i don't know joe you're kind of like
565
00:24:38.620 --> 00:24:40.460
smirking there i don't i don't understand i
566
00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:42.580
don't i don't purport to understand the properties
567
00:24:42.580 --> 00:24:44.480
of alchemy and these types of things i
568
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:47.160
mean we've been curious about this for millennia
569
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:50.220
at this point so far unsuccessfully but is
570
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.440
opus 5 .5 can help me turn my
571
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:53.960
you know the cold of my barbecues of
572
00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.180
gold is that what i'm hearing yeah is
573
00:24:56.180 --> 00:24:58.600
is opus 5 .5 going to fix my
574
00:24:58.600 --> 00:25:01.740
marriage i'm kidding i'm happily married i'm joking
575
00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:04.120
um i just i just wanted to say
576
00:25:04.120 --> 00:25:05.780
that joke for really like kai was like
577
00:25:05.780 --> 00:25:08.800
Hey, Grock, help me, you know. Anyway, yeah,
578
00:25:08.800 --> 00:25:11.020
no, it's not surprising, look, like the announcement,
579
00:25:11.020 --> 00:25:12.660
it's no, like, it obviously is sell off
580
00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:14.400
in the announcement. Like, hey, guys, we used
581
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.220
Frontier AM models to make more gold. I
582
00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:19.760
wasn't expecting that. And so, like, obviously, there's
583
00:25:19.760 --> 00:25:20.540
going to be a tiny bit of a
584
00:25:20.540 --> 00:25:22.040
sell -off. The fact that it's not a
585
00:25:22.040 --> 00:25:24.040
huge sell -off is no surprise because they
586
00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:26.500
haven't figured out how to do it yet
587
00:25:26.500 --> 00:25:28.800
or how to do it reliably or quickly,
588
00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:30.540
but like we're getting there, which is kind
589
00:25:30.540 --> 00:25:32.160
of crazy. I mean, you know, a decade
590
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.080
ago, um, electric vehicles were still relatively expensive
591
00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:37.940
the model three hadn't released yet you know
592
00:25:37.940 --> 00:25:39.320
you had to buy a sports car or
593
00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:41.600
like a really high luxury SUV in order
594
00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:43.560
to get an electric vehicle and now you
595
00:25:43.560 --> 00:25:45.060
can buy a used tassel for like 18
596
00:25:45.060 --> 00:25:46.820
grand and it's pretty good and it can
597
00:25:46.820 --> 00:25:49.020
drive itself you know and also they fly
598
00:25:49.020 --> 00:25:51.920
too so these things happen quickly and that
599
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:53.640
was before sort of the the rise of
600
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:56.880
these these LLMs that have become these frontier
601
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.140
AI models uh so now that we're in
602
00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.460
that era things can accelerate quickly and so
603
00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:03.300
you know I thought that the gold supply
604
00:26:03.300 --> 00:26:06.080
disruption would come from us landing on asteroids
605
00:26:06.080 --> 00:26:08.880
and mining gold there that's also happening in
606
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.540
tandem with gold alchemy being able to derive
607
00:26:11.540 --> 00:26:15.120
it from other other other other molecules so
608
00:26:15.120 --> 00:26:17.120
look these things are accelerating they're happening quickly
609
00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:18.560
and so yeah you want to own an
610
00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:20.080
asset they can't be printed and i guess
611
00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:23.580
gold can be printed now not quite yet
612
00:26:23.580 --> 00:26:25.320
right own what they can't print i guess
613
00:26:25.320 --> 00:26:26.460
peter schiff has to come up with a
614
00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:29.060
new slogan um hey maybe peter shiff is
615
00:26:29.060 --> 00:26:30.300
going to buy these companies and shut them
616
00:26:30.300 --> 00:26:32.200
down who knows but the reality is these
617
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.620
technologies are being developed but as far as
618
00:26:34.620 --> 00:26:36.440
i know there isn't a technology that's being
619
00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:38.500
developed to disrupt the supply of Bitcoin. There's
620
00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.660
a technology being developed to try to, that
621
00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:43.980
will inevitably lead to some, you know, unsecure
622
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:46.740
wallets being being drained, but not one that
623
00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:48.480
can disrupt the supply of Bitcoin, to my
624
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.180
knowledge. Until we invent, you know, a sort
625
00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:53.940
of like a reverse EMP where someone will
626
00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:55.840
be able to hover above the earth and
627
00:26:55.840 --> 00:26:57.360
gain access to all the Bitcoin nodes and
628
00:26:57.360 --> 00:27:00.140
unilaterally control the rules, Bitcoin supply isn't going
629
00:27:00.140 --> 00:27:03.280
to get disrupted. So another, another feather in
630
00:27:03.280 --> 00:27:05.800
the cap of Camp Bitcoin, I suppose. down
631
00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:08.120
on that and do you need some sunglasses?
632
00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:10.240
It looks like you're being completely absorbed there
633
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.700
by the Alberta sunset. It's great now, though.
634
00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:15.960
It's very good for you. I took my
635
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.160
glasses off because it's, it's good to take
636
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:20.260
direct sunlight into the eyes. It's the best
637
00:27:20.260 --> 00:27:24.480
way to absorb vitamin D. But yeah, I
638
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.560
mean, the thing that they didn't tell you
639
00:27:26.560 --> 00:27:30.460
about that hypothetical experiment is the input cost,
640
00:27:30.460 --> 00:27:32.900
right? And that's the part that's relevant. Like
641
00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:35.040
there's, there's way more gold that we can
642
00:27:35.040 --> 00:27:38.700
find, on asteroids that we can't get because
643
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:41.200
it's too expensive. And so if it ends
644
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.740
up costing a massive amount to convert this
645
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.800
mercury into gold, then it's basically irrelevant. But
646
00:27:46.800 --> 00:27:49.140
in the bigger picture in the long term,
647
00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:50.760
it could actually make gold a much better
648
00:27:50.760 --> 00:27:54.360
form of money. If, like, the input cost
649
00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:55.820
of gold is a little bit random right
650
00:27:55.820 --> 00:28:01.320
now, right? It's exploration, operations, execution, political stability,
651
00:28:01.320 --> 00:28:04.280
all these things go into the production cost
652
00:28:04.280 --> 00:28:06.420
of gold. And that's part of what makes
653
00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:08.220
it a bad form of money, right? Is
654
00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:10.200
because at the end of the day, the
655
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.900
supply of gold can respond to the demand
656
00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:14.980
of gold. When the price goes up, more
657
00:28:14.980 --> 00:28:17.800
mines open up, you know, and more gold
658
00:28:17.800 --> 00:28:21.160
gets produced. Whereas if gold and the supply
659
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.560
of gold became a function of energy, which
660
00:28:23.560 --> 00:28:25.380
is likely to be the limiting input on
661
00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:29.360
some form of alchemy like they're describing, gold
662
00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:31.820
would actually become a lot closer to Bitcoin
663
00:28:31.820 --> 00:28:33.200
and would be a better form of money.
664
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.980
So that I think is a positive, but
665
00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:38.000
at this point, it's kind of science fiction.
666
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.740
You know what I mean? It's like, I'll
667
00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:42.260
believe it when I see a gold bar.
668
00:28:42.260 --> 00:28:44.300
It's like, what's that Star Trek? I don't
669
00:28:44.300 --> 00:28:46.280
want Star Trek, but what's the thing where
670
00:28:46.280 --> 00:28:48.000
you can make anything out of it? You
671
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.540
know, I don't know. Yeah, and you know
672
00:28:50.540 --> 00:28:54.760
what? That technology, the ability to essentially input
673
00:28:54.760 --> 00:28:57.880
energy into matter and get a new form
674
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:00.760
of matter, like the replicators or whatever they
675
00:29:00.760 --> 00:29:04.140
are on Star Trek. Replicator, that's it. Yeah,
676
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:08.880
that is ultimately, you know, it would reduce
677
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.240
scarcity on humans. It would make energy the
678
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:13.820
scarce thing and matter would no longer be
679
00:29:13.820 --> 00:29:17.020
scarce. I mean, energy is a scarce thing
680
00:29:17.020 --> 00:29:19.500
already. People don't all realize that, but there's
681
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:21.420
a number of people, I think, are slowly
682
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:25.300
coming to that conclusion. In the world of
683
00:29:25.300 --> 00:29:30.460
international espionage and adjacent topics here, we have
684
00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:34.200
a report from OSINT, that the Pentagon has
685
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.220
spent months building a new agency to covertly
686
00:29:37.220 --> 00:29:41.600
disrupt and sabotage foreign technology programs seen as
687
00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:44.920
threats to U .S. military superiority, according to
688
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:46.700
a dozen current and former U .S. national
689
00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:49.420
security officials who spoke to Politico. I am
690
00:29:49.420 --> 00:29:50.840
interested in this story for one reason and
691
00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:53.660
one reason only. And it's because I think
692
00:29:53.660 --> 00:29:56.340
a lot of, I don't want to say
693
00:29:56.340 --> 00:29:57.320
a lot of people, but I think that
694
00:29:57.320 --> 00:30:00.420
there's a number of prominent political thinkers in
695
00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:02.940
the U .S. and abroad that view the
696
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:07.100
Trump. Trump, Vance, Rubio, admin, you know, the
697
00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:09.840
sort of like hive mind, as returning to
698
00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:13.440
tradition, like returning to traditional U .S. values,
699
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.860
I actually think the opposite is happening. They
700
00:30:14.860 --> 00:30:17.440
may be reconsidering some of these ideas about
701
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.900
how to influence foreign operations, but I think
702
00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:22.340
they're actually modernizing in a way that they
703
00:30:22.340 --> 00:30:24.340
have not modernized in a long time. We
704
00:30:24.340 --> 00:30:27.320
talked a few weeks ago about Palmer Lucky
705
00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:29.260
and Elon and a few other people being
706
00:30:29.260 --> 00:30:34.180
responsible for this new generation of military. vehicles,
707
00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:36.740
military tech, military weapons, and I think like
708
00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:39.600
expedition strategy maybe of some kind. And, you
709
00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:44.240
know, in that same vein, Palmer, genetically modifying
710
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:49.400
dogs for a military startup called Warhound. I
711
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.460
love this idea. I think this is great.
712
00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:55.780
These dogs, by the way, you know, a
713
00:30:55.780 --> 00:30:57.080
lot of people will be mad about this,
714
00:30:57.080 --> 00:30:59.520
but what they don't realize is military dogs,
715
00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:02.280
especially like purebred shepherds, purebred, uh, sort of
716
00:31:02.280 --> 00:31:05.220
attack dogs have problems. Anyone who owns a
717
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:06.460
dog knows this. If you have a purebred
718
00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:08.080
dog, you're more likely to get stuff like
719
00:31:08.080 --> 00:31:10.560
carcinoma, you're more likely to get stuff like
720
00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:13.800
bone issues, degenerative issues. You're more likely to
721
00:31:13.800 --> 00:31:15.640
have early death from all sorts of different
722
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:18.060
stuff, you know, different cancers and whatnot. And
723
00:31:18.060 --> 00:31:21.020
if you can actually sort of, quote unquote,
724
00:31:21.020 --> 00:31:23.400
manufacture a dog to be not only like
725
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.540
a hunter killer, but also be healthy, smart,
726
00:31:26.540 --> 00:31:29.040
loyal. And, you know, I would guess that
727
00:31:29.040 --> 00:31:32.180
there's at least some thought on the periphery,
728
00:31:32.180 --> 00:31:33.820
of what these dogs are going to do
729
00:31:33.820 --> 00:31:35.600
once they're past their useful military life, you
730
00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:38.180
know, family dogs or whatever, police dogs. I
731
00:31:38.180 --> 00:31:39.760
love this idea. I'm a big fan of
732
00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:41.400
this. I'm curious, what do you guys make
733
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.760
of the current U .S. military sort of
734
00:31:45.760 --> 00:31:49.540
research arm here doing drones and dogs now
735
00:31:49.540 --> 00:31:50.780
for the first time. As far as I
736
00:31:50.780 --> 00:31:51.940
can tell, I don't think there's ever been
737
00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:54.400
an initiative like this. I personally love it.
738
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:57.320
But, Joe, what do you think? Based, based
739
00:31:57.320 --> 00:32:01.700
gamer autists. Just so awesome. Like, Palmer Lucky's
740
00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:04.080
whole arc is incredible, right? Like, he was
741
00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.400
just a guy who loved video games and
742
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.000
loved tech and was tinkering in his garage
743
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:10.060
and he builds this company, extremely valuable, gets
744
00:32:10.060 --> 00:32:13.060
acquired by meta, gets fired. If Zuck didn't,
745
00:32:13.060 --> 00:32:15.020
back, low T, Zuck, back before he was
746
00:32:15.020 --> 00:32:17.060
cool, that's true, his hair cut and stuff.
747
00:32:17.060 --> 00:32:20.480
If, if, if Zuck didn't fire him, we
748
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:22.860
would not have Andrew, probably. We probably would
749
00:32:22.860 --> 00:32:25.000
not have this awesome startup. And we wouldn't
750
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.980
have. lucky going around saying like, hey, we
751
00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:31.700
should make it so that we create like
752
00:32:31.700 --> 00:32:33.760
an oxytocin drug to give to people who
753
00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:35.420
want to divorce each other to fix the
754
00:32:35.420 --> 00:32:37.300
birth grade. Like, you would never hear him
755
00:32:37.300 --> 00:32:38.600
saying that stuff if he was still like
756
00:32:38.600 --> 00:32:40.540
the Game Boy guy over at Meta, you
757
00:32:40.540 --> 00:32:43.020
know? So special thanks to Mark Zuckerberg, kudos
758
00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:46.040
to you. But I mean, I think ultimately
759
00:32:46.040 --> 00:32:49.020
this technology exists, again, to the point we're
760
00:32:49.020 --> 00:32:52.340
making earlier, other countries are doing this. Other
761
00:32:52.340 --> 00:32:54.660
countries are doing this. And also for like
762
00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:56.340
all of the pearl clutches who are like,
763
00:32:56.340 --> 00:32:59.580
oh my gosh, genetically modifying dogs, guys, how
764
00:32:59.580 --> 00:33:01.640
do you think every dog breed today came
765
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:03.940
into existence? Everybody's got a fucking doodle and
766
00:33:03.940 --> 00:33:07.580
is opposed to genetically modifying dogs. We just
767
00:33:07.580 --> 00:33:09.920
had them, you know, screw different pooches, you
768
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:12.000
know, in order to make these dogs. We
769
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.200
weren't genetically, but we weren't gene altering them.
770
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.020
But now, like, it's sort of just the
771
00:33:17.020 --> 00:33:18.800
next logical thing. It's just the 21st century
772
00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:21.080
version of what everybody in England was doing
773
00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:22.200
to make it so that they could catch
774
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:25.040
ducks properly. So like to all of the
775
00:33:25.040 --> 00:33:26.800
people who are pearl clutching, it's just kind
776
00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:28.260
of the next evolution of that. And I
777
00:33:28.260 --> 00:33:30.080
really have, I see no problem with it.
778
00:33:30.080 --> 00:33:31.380
Like, I want killer dogs. I don't want
779
00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:33.040
a dog that will kill me, but then
780
00:33:33.040 --> 00:33:35.840
kill other people. Dave, what kind of dog
781
00:33:35.840 --> 00:33:36.700
are you going to get from the war
782
00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:39.200
machine? Yeah, I'm like a little bit more
783
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.840
creeped out by it. I don't think it's
784
00:33:40.840 --> 00:33:43.540
going to be that relevant, honestly. In if
785
00:33:43.540 --> 00:33:46.280
you, if you add in the advances in
786
00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:49.920
robotics, the like the killing ability of a
787
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.000
robotic dog five years from now is going
788
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.740
to vastly exceed anything. that you can breed,
789
00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:57.440
I think. And so if you're looking about
790
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:00.320
making machines to kill, I think that the,
791
00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:03.560
you know, the metal tech is going to
792
00:34:03.560 --> 00:34:08.300
exceed the biological tech pretty easily. And, you
793
00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:12.880
know, I don't like, I don't like the
794
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:14.540
idea, but I get the point of like,
795
00:34:14.540 --> 00:34:16.340
they're all genetically modified one way or the
796
00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:19.540
other, but there is a certain element that
797
00:34:19.540 --> 00:34:22.140
extends from dogs to humanity and everything else
798
00:34:22.140 --> 00:34:25.280
where we're in like the imperfections that the
799
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.760
limitations of the world have put upon us
800
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.940
are part of what makes the world great
801
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.800
and even though these dogs have all these
802
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.920
issues you know the fact that they were
803
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:39.240
achieved through natural means i think makes them
804
00:34:39.240 --> 00:34:42.560
a little bit more uh something that you
805
00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:45.280
can identify with a little bit more than
806
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.520
uh you know the the the next killer
807
00:34:48.520 --> 00:34:50.960
german shepherd but the thing that it makes
808
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:52.200
me think of is if you can make
809
00:34:52.200 --> 00:34:54.140
you know if you can make german shepherds
810
00:34:54.140 --> 00:34:56.140
or your malnoy or whatever you want to
811
00:34:56.140 --> 00:34:58.160
be a better killer can you go the
812
00:34:58.160 --> 00:35:00.000
opposite direction can you be like yeah i
813
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.380
i need a grizzly that's like domesticated like
814
00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:06.520
a pug oh you know what i mean
815
00:35:06.520 --> 00:35:08.260
yeah pretty cool i mean hey in the
816
00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:10.920
same way that uh the the new roads
817
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.460
through that jumps off the the ground is
818
00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:15.540
sort of just the way of getting the
819
00:35:15.540 --> 00:35:19.780
uber wealthy to subsidize the development of uh
820
00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:22.880
SpaceX's Lunar lander technology. This is like getting
821
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:26.280
the government to subsidize an eventual human gene
822
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:27.880
editing company. So that way, like I can
823
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.900
give myself wings or whatever. Listen, we're going
824
00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:33.080
to go to break before this gets out
825
00:35:33.080 --> 00:35:34.920
of control. When we get back, someone else
826
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:37.440
is joining the show, number one, and we're
827
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.400
going to talk about Chamoth and this coin
828
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:43.080
kite lawsuit, if you can believe it, uh,
829
00:35:43.080 --> 00:35:46.020
coming to fruition in Ontario. We'll be right
830
00:35:46.020 --> 00:35:50.400
back. Don't go anywhere.! to stop printing and
831
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.560
stop borrowing, you know exactly where Bitcoin is
832
00:35:52.560 --> 00:35:53.960
going. And whether your stack is already at
833
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:55.080
the size, where you know you should do
834
00:35:55.080 --> 00:35:56.580
something about it, or it's headed there, it's
835
00:35:56.580 --> 00:35:58.420
time your security caught up. That's why you
836
00:35:58.420 --> 00:36:01.320
need CASA premium. Your Bitcoin's secured across five
837
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:03.640
keys. Three on hardware, from different vendors, one
838
00:36:03.640 --> 00:36:05.660
on your phone, and one held by CASA.
839
00:36:05.660 --> 00:36:07.060
Use any three to sign, which means if
840
00:36:07.060 --> 00:36:08.460
you lose one key, you don't lose your
841
00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:10.440
stack. It also means that CASA can't move
842
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:12.360
it without you. The kit, devices and everything
843
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:13.780
goes with it, ships right to your door,
844
00:36:13.780 --> 00:36:15.160
and their advisory team walks you through the
845
00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:16.660
full setup. And for those of you who
846
00:36:16.660 --> 00:36:18.240
care about privacy as much as I do,
847
00:36:18.240 --> 00:36:20.020
there's no KYC on the vault. Use any
848
00:36:20.020 --> 00:36:21.720
email you like, use any address you like.
849
00:36:21.720 --> 00:36:23.700
No one has to know your personal details.
850
00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:24.580
I know what you're thinking, what if something
851
00:36:24.580 --> 00:36:26.580
happens to CASA? What about my family? Well,
852
00:36:26.580 --> 00:36:28.200
sovereign recover means that you can always rebuild
853
00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:30.200
using open source tools like Sparrow. And as
854
00:36:30.200 --> 00:36:32.260
for your family, CASA inheritance means you're not
855
00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:33.820
leaving them a locked box with no key.
856
00:36:33.820 --> 00:36:35.180
You invite them with an email and their
857
00:36:35.180 --> 00:36:36.700
key lies dormant while you're still alive, and
858
00:36:36.700 --> 00:36:38.620
should that day ever come, you don't have
859
00:36:38.620 --> 00:36:39.960
to worry about them having to figure it
860
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:41.500
out when you're not around to ask. You've
861
00:36:41.500 --> 00:36:43.140
already taken care of it. So head to
862
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CASA .io slash Sessions promo code sessions to
863
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receive 10 % off your first year. That's
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casa .io slash sessions. code sessions. Click the
865
00:36:50.740 --> 00:36:52.080
link in the description down below or scan
866
00:36:52.080 --> 00:36:54.680
the QR code on the screen. One company
867
00:36:54.680 --> 00:36:56.780
I like pointing people to when they ask
868
00:36:56.780 --> 00:36:59.820
about Bitcoin mining is abundant mines. They were
869
00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:02.540
founded by Bo and Christine Turner after losing
870
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over half a million dollars to broken promises
871
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in the mining industry, and they built their
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hosting model to remove the usual headaches. With
873
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abundant mines, you own your machines and keep
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100 % of the Bitcoin you mine. There's
875
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no revenue share, no hidden skims. Pricing is
876
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simple. One flat monthly fee covers power, parts,
877
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labor, and repairs. They also guarantee uptime. The
878
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machine goes down, their hash rate redirect system
879
00:37:28.120 --> 00:37:30.800
routes hash power from their fleet, so earnings
880
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don't just stop, and every machine is insured
881
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at full replacement value. Everything is hosted in
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the U .S., powered by hydro, and mining
883
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equipment may qualify for 100 % year -one
884
00:37:42.640 --> 00:37:47.540
bonus depreciation. Learn more at abundantmines .com slash
885
00:37:47.540 --> 00:37:53.440
sessions. Welcome back. Adam Livingston is joining us.
886
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.100
I don't know where Dave is. There he
887
00:37:55.100 --> 00:37:56.200
is. I got to put him back on
888
00:37:56.200 --> 00:37:58.060
the screen here. Okay, here we go. Adam,
889
00:37:58.060 --> 00:38:00.000
thanks for coming. I know this was very
890
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.800
short notice, but it's good to see you.
891
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.920
I appreciate that unlike other Treasury company employees,
892
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.040
you don't have a fake gym in your
893
00:38:07.040 --> 00:38:09.360
garage that clearly has never been used as
894
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:11.380
a backdrop for the podcast. That's good. We
895
00:38:11.380 --> 00:38:12.180
like that on the show. Hey, that's his
896
00:38:12.180 --> 00:38:17.680
boss. Come on, back. I think you're muted.
897
00:38:17.680 --> 00:38:18.560
I don't know if you're muted or if
898
00:38:18.560 --> 00:38:19.680
it's just us that can't hear you. but
899
00:38:19.680 --> 00:38:22.260
some combination to do there. As you figure
900
00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:24.520
that out, we will bring up our... I
901
00:38:24.520 --> 00:38:26.100
think we're good now. Sorry. There we go.
902
00:38:26.100 --> 00:38:27.420
Yeah, I can hear you. As you figure
903
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.380
that out, we're going to bring up our
904
00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:34.100
next story from Bitcoin Archive, the Chamoth, Poly
905
00:38:34.100 --> 00:38:37.540
Hopatia hour here on BitCast. The most obvious
906
00:38:37.540 --> 00:38:40.320
thing for cryptographic hacks is to break shot
907
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.760
256 in Satoshi's wallet. I mean, I don't
908
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:44.340
know what I'm supposed to think about this
909
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:46.380
anymore. I see it over and over again.
910
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:49.380
We've all seen it a million times. Adam,
911
00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:51.380
you. you're, you know, first on stream here.
912
00:38:51.380 --> 00:38:53.740
You may as well chime in. You know,
913
00:38:53.740 --> 00:38:56.400
I don't personally think that this deserves any
914
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.220
error, but no matter what, especially when Chamath
915
00:38:59.220 --> 00:39:01.080
or someone of his stature says something stupid
916
00:39:01.080 --> 00:39:02.840
like this, I got to hear about it
917
00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:04.560
in my text, my family chats. I got
918
00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:05.600
to hear about it. When I go to
919
00:39:05.600 --> 00:39:06.900
football, I got to hear about it at
920
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:09.020
the gym. What do you tell people when
921
00:39:09.020 --> 00:39:11.560
they tell you this? That's a great question.
922
00:39:11.560 --> 00:39:12.760
And number one, thanks for having me. I'm
923
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:14.940
a giant fan of the show, regular listener,
924
00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:16.880
like pretty much almost every single episode because
925
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.940
the timing works well of my work day.
926
00:39:18.940 --> 00:39:21.500
So thanks for having me. My opinion on
927
00:39:21.500 --> 00:39:22.700
this is that it's just a bunch of
928
00:39:22.700 --> 00:39:25.800
fud nonsense. I think that I often have
929
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.260
this conversation with normies, probably more than any
930
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:31.120
other topic, people who are not orange -pilled.
931
00:39:31.120 --> 00:39:32.060
I don't know if you guys are the
932
00:39:32.060 --> 00:39:33.360
same way, but it's like this is the
933
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.620
number one fud topic. And I just think
934
00:39:35.620 --> 00:39:38.900
it's nonsensical because if shot 256 is broken,
935
00:39:38.900 --> 00:39:42.280
like literally what else in the entire traditional
936
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:45.800
finance ecosystem is broken first? Like, it's just
937
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:49.740
totally lunacy insane that like, for some reason,
938
00:39:49.740 --> 00:39:52.060
this is priority one in terms of what
939
00:39:52.060 --> 00:39:54.660
gets broken. Like, this is the main disaster.
940
00:39:54.660 --> 00:39:56.400
It's kind of like the argument about like,
941
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:58.800
oh, you think Bitcoin's valuable? Well, what if
942
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.420
the world exploded? If the world exploded, I
943
00:40:02.420 --> 00:40:04.320
think would be concerned with different stuff, you
944
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:06.160
know? Yeah. It's like, what if the sun
945
00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:08.520
explodes, guys? It's like for some reason people
946
00:40:08.520 --> 00:40:11.260
think that there are investments out there where
947
00:40:11.260 --> 00:40:14.220
you can get away from the omnipotence of
948
00:40:14.220 --> 00:40:16.120
risk as if like you can walk into
949
00:40:16.120 --> 00:40:18.820
some domain where no risk is an existence
950
00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:22.540
anywhere. I think it's totally nonsensical, but happy
951
00:40:22.540 --> 00:40:24.260
to hear your guys' opinion. I don't know,
952
00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:25.920
Joe, you tell me, what do you think?
953
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:27.800
Give me the rundown here. Yeah, so I
954
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:29.600
agree. I mean, Chimoth, and I said this
955
00:40:29.600 --> 00:40:31.620
before you run the show, Adam, but, you
956
00:40:31.620 --> 00:40:33.660
know, Chimoth is basically just coming from the
957
00:40:33.660 --> 00:40:35.840
perspective of someone who's extremely salt. We've got
958
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:37.660
Dave back. It's just a great background for
959
00:40:37.660 --> 00:40:41.160
now. But, you know, it's, Chamaath, this is
960
00:40:41.160 --> 00:40:42.380
just coming from the perspective as someone who's
961
00:40:42.380 --> 00:40:44.220
extremely salty about selling a ton of Bitcoin
962
00:40:44.220 --> 00:40:46.140
for a company that didn't do as well
963
00:40:46.140 --> 00:40:48.440
over a decade ago. That's basically it. That's
964
00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:49.660
all. all that it is. You know, as
965
00:40:49.660 --> 00:40:51.480
early as three years ago, Chimov was saying
966
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:53.980
that Bitcoin will displace gold. And now Chimov
967
00:40:53.980 --> 00:40:56.360
is suddenly saying after he is invested in
968
00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:59.600
a ton of quantum companies that quantum will
969
00:40:59.600 --> 00:41:02.320
break Bitcoin, right? It's no coincidence at all.
970
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:04.000
You know, same exact thing with Nick Carter.
971
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.340
Nick Carter, great Bitcoin are largely. Great stuff.
972
00:41:06.340 --> 00:41:07.720
He's done for the space, but now he's
973
00:41:07.720 --> 00:41:10.420
pivoted toward the quantum foot. Don't you dare
974
00:41:10.420 --> 00:41:12.840
talk negatively about Nick? Don't you, not on
975
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:15.100
this program. No, no, just on this on
976
00:41:15.100 --> 00:41:17.180
this one point, right? Very similar thing, right?
977
00:41:17.180 --> 00:41:19.180
He has a quantum, uh, company that he
978
00:41:19.180 --> 00:41:20.480
started or at the very least like a
979
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:22.700
Bitcoin quantum security company that he started and
980
00:41:22.700 --> 00:41:23.940
now all of a sudden He's talking about
981
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.640
how existential this is, you know, for all
982
00:41:26.640 --> 00:41:27.720
the money, right? I don't mean to be
983
00:41:27.720 --> 00:41:29.760
some kind of tinfoil hack guy, but I
984
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.280
mean as far as Schumath is concerned, this
985
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:33.640
guy invests in companies, right? He invested in
986
00:41:33.640 --> 00:41:34.660
a company and didn't perform as well as
987
00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:36.540
Bitcoin now he's salty about Bitcoin, right? It's
988
00:41:36.540 --> 00:41:39.580
and he was on a show called moonshot,
989
00:41:39.580 --> 00:41:41.820
right? When he said this, it's probably not
990
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:45.200
the most unbiased character despite his incredible track
991
00:41:45.200 --> 00:41:47.860
record, probably not the most unbiased character to
992
00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:49.400
be talking about this. Dave, what do you
993
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.380
think about Chimoth saying Bitcoin is in jeopardy,
994
00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:54.280
the security Algo is in jeopardy, all these
995
00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:58.780
things from our favorite Canadian. What's he, what's
996
00:41:58.780 --> 00:42:03.920
he saying? Oh, he's on mute. Dave, Dave,
997
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:05.260
Dave, Dave, he's on mute. I can't believe
998
00:42:05.260 --> 00:42:07.460
this. I've done, I've done like a myriad
999
00:42:07.460 --> 00:42:09.460
of shows with Dave, guest shows. He's been
1000
00:42:09.460 --> 00:42:10.680
on my show. He's been on my show.
1001
00:42:10.680 --> 00:42:13.240
And still, he's got the outfit. But the
1002
00:42:13.240 --> 00:42:15.460
mic, the mic and the camera, we can't
1003
00:42:15.460 --> 00:42:17.620
figure this out. No, I can't hear you.
1004
00:42:17.620 --> 00:42:20.040
You're on mute. This is crazy. You'll figure
1005
00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:22.040
it. I love the Daniel Blue hat. That's
1006
00:42:22.040 --> 00:42:25.300
a solid look.! He's a Canadian, Adam. Because
1007
00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:28.580
the look is fantastic. He's a Canadian. I'm
1008
00:42:28.580 --> 00:42:30.100
going to wear my Davey Crockettit hat next
1009
00:42:30.100 --> 00:42:34.540
year. I love it. Adam, since you're here,
1010
00:42:34.540 --> 00:42:37.020
we should, you know, I'd be remiss if
1011
00:42:37.020 --> 00:42:39.760
I didn't ask you about things going on
1012
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.480
between Bitcoin and stonks, given that you represent
1013
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.900
at least one stonk and probably feel highly
1014
00:42:44.900 --> 00:42:48.220
about a few stonks. decoupling from the NASDAQ,
1015
00:42:48.220 --> 00:42:50.820
maybe a little bit. But I got to
1016
00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:53.680
ask, you know, I've been saying for many
1017
00:42:53.680 --> 00:42:56.620
months. And Joe probably felt the same way,
1018
00:42:56.620 --> 00:42:59.580
even if you didn't say it, that, you
1019
00:42:59.580 --> 00:43:02.260
know, if I look at Strives' daily dividend
1020
00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:04.720
thing that they came out with, I don't
1021
00:43:04.720 --> 00:43:05.960
know, was that, you know, a few months
1022
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.140
ago at this point, that MSTR was going
1023
00:43:08.140 --> 00:43:10.720
to match it. They did. And now you
1024
00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:14.340
guys obviously are using the SATS ticker. I
1025
00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:17.100
cannot believe in the. of our Lord 2026
1026
00:43:17.100 --> 00:43:18.820
people are not picking these things up if
1027
00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:20.420
for no other reason than to sell them
1028
00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:22.220
under the table back to you guys but
1029
00:43:22.220 --> 00:43:25.040
a story for another time tell me a
1030
00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:27.620
bit about number one you know what are
1031
00:43:27.620 --> 00:43:30.880
you guys thinking when you look at bitcoin
1032
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:33.920
versus nasdaq bitcoin versus stocks uh that's the
1033
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:36.300
first thing and then also if you can
1034
00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:38.140
i mean don't um don't blow up your
1035
00:43:38.140 --> 00:43:40.100
boardroom there but tell me a bit about
1036
00:43:40.100 --> 00:43:42.800
their rationale around going to dailies and what
1037
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:44.880
you guys think of uh mike doing the
1038
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.320
same thing a few months later Yeah, I
1039
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.080
think it's great for the space. I do
1040
00:43:49.080 --> 00:43:52.200
want to touch on the Bitcoin correlations that
1041
00:43:52.200 --> 00:43:53.940
are happening lately because I think that they
1042
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:56.920
are very bullish. Obviously, a strive. I don't
1043
00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:57.820
know if you guys have seen, but we
1044
00:43:57.820 --> 00:44:00.780
are coming public with essentially underwriting a 50
1045
00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:03.400
% Bitcoin Kager through the end of 2030.
1046
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:05.220
And a lot of what plays into our
1047
00:44:05.220 --> 00:44:07.840
thesis is about, you know, Bitcoin is really
1048
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:11.680
seemingly kind of becoming a debasement asset for
1049
00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:14.480
maybe not exactly the first time in the
1050
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:16.560
assets history, but I would was just looking
1051
00:44:16.560 --> 00:44:18.140
at this. If you look since the beginning
1052
00:44:18.140 --> 00:44:20.600
of 2016 and you look at the 90
1053
00:44:20.600 --> 00:44:23.880
day correlation with gold, with equities, you can
1054
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:25.800
look at the QQQ or the VTI, the
1055
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.200
S &P 500 versus like, you know, gold
1056
00:44:29.200 --> 00:44:30.720
and silver even. You can bundle them as
1057
00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:33.680
precious metals. Right now, gold is in the,
1058
00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:36.680
sorry, Bitcoin is in the 99th percentile of
1059
00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:39.320
90 day correlation with precious metals, which is
1060
00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.140
very interesting that we're seeing this regime emerge
1061
00:44:42.140 --> 00:44:44.940
ever since June 30th to Bitcoin bottom. So
1062
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:47.880
right now, our thesis is, you know, it
1063
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:50.740
seems like Bitcoin being this correlated to gold.
1064
00:44:50.740 --> 00:44:53.220
It doesn't help that gold also isn't performing
1065
00:44:53.220 --> 00:44:55.060
well right now, but it's interesting that more
1066
00:44:55.060 --> 00:44:57.320
so than any other time in its history,
1067
00:44:57.320 --> 00:44:59.280
Bitcoin and gold seem to be moving together,
1068
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.140
which is very interesting. And that coupled with,
1069
00:45:02.140 --> 00:45:03.880
you know, as Bitcoiners, what we all think
1070
00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:06.480
is going to happen. Just monetary debasement, the
1071
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.640
sovereign debt crisis, you look at like a
1072
00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:12.380
falling DXY. If you put the DXY overlaid
1073
00:45:12.380 --> 00:45:14.360
with Bitcoin's price through the last 10 years,
1074
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:16.240
every single bull market is coincided. it with
1075
00:45:16.240 --> 00:45:18.440
a decline in the US dollar relative to
1076
00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:21.200
other Fiat currencies. So we look at the
1077
00:45:21.200 --> 00:45:24.600
correlations very closely in terms of a risk
1078
00:45:24.600 --> 00:45:27.280
calculus. When do you decide to heavily amplify
1079
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:28.860
your balance sheet to help with those common
1080
00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:31.700
stock returns based on where we're at relative
1081
00:45:31.700 --> 00:45:33.920
to Bitcoin price and gold and the correlations,
1082
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:35.900
et cetera. But I think that the daily
1083
00:45:35.900 --> 00:45:38.340
dividends from strategy are a really positive development
1084
00:45:38.340 --> 00:45:40.660
for the sector. I think that it's definitely
1085
00:45:40.660 --> 00:45:42.160
going to help with the volatility. You're not
1086
00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:45.960
going to have those, obviously the volatility, arbitrators,
1087
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.400
coming in before X dividend dates as much.
1088
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.640
It should help with the volatility smoothing. And
1089
00:45:50.640 --> 00:45:52.160
I think it will make the other preps
1090
00:45:52.160 --> 00:45:54.960
a lot more ideal. I don't think people
1091
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:57.440
like waiting three months for a dividend. I
1092
00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:00.860
think that we are increasingly going into a
1093
00:46:00.860 --> 00:46:04.960
more casino gamified market with prediction markets and
1094
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.980
24 -7 stock trading, tokenized stocks. And I
1095
00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.240
think that in terms of an infrastructure that
1096
00:46:10.240 --> 00:46:12.920
can be built on top of daily dividends,
1097
00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:14.320
that's going to be a big boon for
1098
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.420
strategy. So I think it's overall. for the
1099
00:46:16.420 --> 00:46:19.620
sector and competition is great. So happy to
1100
00:46:19.620 --> 00:46:21.560
see it. I love it. Are you concerned
1101
00:46:21.560 --> 00:46:23.160
that Sailor seems to be getting his suits
1102
00:46:23.160 --> 00:46:24.760
tailored at a strip mall? You don't have
1103
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:26.580
to answer that. Dave, where do you come
1104
00:46:26.580 --> 00:46:29.860
down on the daily dividends and the stocks
1105
00:46:29.860 --> 00:46:34.580
and the relationship between, I guess, like, I
1106
00:46:34.580 --> 00:46:35.800
think, I think Adam is right. This is
1107
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:37.440
good for the space. I think Adam is
1108
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.740
right that there's a lot of Bitcoiners now
1109
00:46:39.740 --> 00:46:41.840
sort of looking at the inevitable, you know,
1110
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:43.100
I think we all agree on that. I
1111
00:46:43.100 --> 00:46:44.820
would guess there's, you know, many of us
1112
00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:48.440
think that this is an inevitable outcome. You
1113
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:50.780
know, people are still buying MSTR. I said
1114
00:46:50.780 --> 00:46:51.960
on this show a little while ago that
1115
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:53.980
I started buying MSTR again, and I know
1116
00:46:53.980 --> 00:46:56.660
Walker, who's not here, is an ASST plus
1117
00:46:56.660 --> 00:46:59.020
MSTR, and I know there's many of those
1118
00:46:59.020 --> 00:47:01.180
investors out there too. Dave, you've been maybe
1119
00:47:01.180 --> 00:47:06.940
more bearish than most on the Treasury equities,
1120
00:47:06.940 --> 00:47:08.460
the Bitcoin equities, where do you come down
1121
00:47:08.460 --> 00:47:10.300
on stuff like the daily dividend, on stuff
1122
00:47:10.300 --> 00:47:12.980
like the MSTR, recent move? Like, what do
1123
00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:15.620
you think? Yeah, I'm not bearish to be.
1124
00:47:15.620 --> 00:47:20.760
clearer. The, the, my criticisms of the Treasury
1125
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.160
companies and the ETFs are the same, it's
1126
00:47:23.160 --> 00:47:25.500
that you're putting the coins in the, in
1127
00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:26.860
the custody of the U .S. government for
1128
00:47:26.860 --> 00:47:30.440
that eventual 60102. But in terms of, you
1129
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:33.800
know, assuming that these companies exist, more products
1130
00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:38.440
means more surface for price discovery. So ultimately,
1131
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.280
it's a good thing. It's going to, you
1132
00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:43.240
know, further the fact that Bitcoin is really
1133
00:47:43.240 --> 00:47:45.720
the the most robust market in the world
1134
00:47:45.720 --> 00:47:47.240
in a lot of ways. You know, it's
1135
00:47:47.240 --> 00:47:49.620
the only thing that trades 24 hours a
1136
00:47:49.620 --> 00:47:51.940
day in every country in the world. And
1137
00:47:51.940 --> 00:47:54.220
the more price discovery that we get, the
1138
00:47:54.220 --> 00:47:58.180
better. And the more that the mind virus
1139
00:47:58.180 --> 00:48:01.780
of Bitcoin infects Wall Street, the more Bitcoin
1140
00:48:01.780 --> 00:48:05.860
moves to becoming considered a pristine form of
1141
00:48:05.860 --> 00:48:08.060
collateral, which I think that's the endgame, is
1142
00:48:08.060 --> 00:48:10.620
that everything that all of the suits are
1143
00:48:10.620 --> 00:48:13.440
building is going to use Bitcoin as collateral,
1144
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.880
And ultimately, we're going to see that with
1145
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:18.300
nation states as well. And that's kind of
1146
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:21.040
the steps that I see this leading towards
1147
00:48:21.040 --> 00:48:25.060
is, you know, it's, and circling back, whether
1148
00:48:25.060 --> 00:48:27.760
it's Chamath talking about gold or about Bitcoin
1149
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:30.900
or the guys coming out with their alchemy,
1150
00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:34.300
you know, news about gold, in all these
1151
00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:37.020
cases, it's somebody talking their book, right? It's,
1152
00:48:37.020 --> 00:48:39.760
it's much more likely that Chamath is wanting
1153
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:41.560
to tank the price of Bitcoin as much
1154
00:48:41.560 --> 00:48:43.740
as he can because he wants to acquire
1155
00:48:43.740 --> 00:48:45.180
as much as he can at as low
1156
00:48:45.180 --> 00:48:49.240
as possible a price he can. So, yeah,
1157
00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:51.880
I mean, I'm not a, I'm not a,
1158
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:53.900
I'm not a, I'm not a huge fan
1159
00:48:53.900 --> 00:48:55.640
at the end of the day of every
1160
00:48:55.640 --> 00:49:00.280
Wall Street product tying themselves into Bitcoin. But
1161
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:02.380
if Wall Street's going to be there, more
1162
00:49:02.380 --> 00:49:06.400
products is better. Okay, understood. Adam, there's a
1163
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.320
question in the chat here about the, hold
1164
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:11.900
on, someone's typing here. Got the wrong one
1165
00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:14.860
there. about calling a 15 % yield versus
1166
00:49:14.860 --> 00:49:17.220
calling a 15 % percent, excuse me, per
1167
00:49:17.220 --> 00:49:20.100
share. Do you have a comment on that?
1168
00:49:20.100 --> 00:49:21.560
I mean, again, like, I realize there's things
1169
00:49:21.560 --> 00:49:23.380
you can and can't say, but I'd be
1170
00:49:23.380 --> 00:49:25.080
unfair to leave some of these questions behind
1171
00:49:25.080 --> 00:49:27.580
if the chat's like, you know, embracing asking
1172
00:49:27.580 --> 00:49:30.660
you. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. First, I'll touch
1173
00:49:30.660 --> 00:49:32.200
on what Dave said. I agree. I think
1174
00:49:32.200 --> 00:49:34.000
that I'm one of the people in the
1175
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:36.980
space that sees the risk of giving up
1176
00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:38.920
your Bitcoin and self -custody. That's why I'm
1177
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.080
pretty stridently anti -EF, actually, because you're a
1178
00:49:42.080 --> 00:49:43.340
lot of. you're paying a fee for another
1179
00:49:43.340 --> 00:49:45.360
entity to hold your Bitcoin. And I don't
1180
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:47.100
like that. I don't like the idea of
1181
00:49:47.100 --> 00:49:50.240
taking on additional risk to underperform Bitcoin itself.
1182
00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:52.000
I think that's nonsensical. So I think we
1183
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.440
can find some common ground there. But yeah,
1184
00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:56.080
the 15 % fixed rate is just a
1185
00:49:56.080 --> 00:49:59.140
15 % on a $100 stated amount. So
1186
00:49:59.140 --> 00:50:01.380
if you were able to buy the equity
1187
00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:03.540
when it's trading it cheaper than $100, then
1188
00:50:03.540 --> 00:50:05.540
your effective yield would be higher. So think
1189
00:50:05.540 --> 00:50:08.900
of it as 15 % out of $100.
1190
00:50:08.900 --> 00:50:11.200
But if the stock is at discount, like
1191
00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:13.620
if it's at $90, for example, then the
1192
00:50:13.620 --> 00:50:17.180
effective yield would be higher. So obviously, that
1193
00:50:17.180 --> 00:50:19.560
can invite in some people looking for that
1194
00:50:19.560 --> 00:50:21.440
arbitrage. Maybe they would want to sell after
1195
00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:24.760
some capital appreciation. But we are intentional with
1196
00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:28.200
SATs where we're not necessarily coming out with
1197
00:50:28.200 --> 00:50:30.100
making it try to trade at a certain
1198
00:50:30.100 --> 00:50:32.520
trading range. That's where it's differentiated with SETA.
1199
00:50:32.520 --> 00:50:34.620
We're actually not coming out saying this is
1200
00:50:34.620 --> 00:50:36.800
a variable dividend. We're not going to change
1201
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:40.020
it. It's 15 % on that $100 state.
1202
00:50:40.020 --> 00:50:42.480
amount forever. Now, depending on when you buy
1203
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.120
it, if it's above 100 or below 100,
1204
00:50:45.120 --> 00:50:47.760
your effective yield might be different. Love it.
1205
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:49.880
Great answer. Maybe one last question on this
1206
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:51.060
topic, and then we'll move on to the
1207
00:50:51.060 --> 00:50:54.720
cold card issue, obviously still somehow marinating in
1208
00:50:54.720 --> 00:50:58.580
the ether there. This bit about U .S.
1209
00:50:58.580 --> 00:51:01.460
inflation, obviously, being higher, which will lead eventually
1210
00:51:01.460 --> 00:51:03.380
to higher bond rates. And, you know, we've
1211
00:51:03.380 --> 00:51:04.460
talked a little bit about the five year
1212
00:51:04.460 --> 00:51:05.520
and 10 year. Joe, I don't know if
1213
00:51:05.520 --> 00:51:07.100
you know what those rates are right now.
1214
00:51:07.100 --> 00:51:09.820
But my guess is they're creeping toward this
1215
00:51:09.820 --> 00:51:12.480
kind of 6, 7 % range on the
1216
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.280
longer end. 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7
1217
00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:17.520
on the longer end. And so, like, what
1218
00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:20.300
is the likelihood you think, Adam, that whether
1219
00:51:20.300 --> 00:51:23.380
it's you guys or Sailor or whoever, you
1220
00:51:23.380 --> 00:51:25.100
know, are you guys thinking about this? You're
1221
00:51:25.100 --> 00:51:28.980
competing with, like, U .S. government bond yields
1222
00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:30.960
a little bit? Like, the money market is
1223
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:33.700
actually thinking, okay, so I want to invest
1224
00:51:33.700 --> 00:51:36.840
in Adam and Matt and punter. Do I
1225
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:38.840
want to invest in Mike and, you know,
1226
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:40.320
Big Dong Fong, or do I want to
1227
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:43.560
go to the 10 year or the 30
1228
00:51:43.560 --> 00:51:45.220
year? Like, is this something you guys consider?
1229
00:51:45.220 --> 00:51:46.740
Is this something that comes up at your
1230
00:51:46.740 --> 00:51:51.860
mahogany table? Yeah, the mahogany table. I wish
1231
00:51:51.860 --> 00:51:53.400
we had that, but we're all remote. That'd
1232
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:56.200
be nice. Yeah, it's something that we talk
1233
00:51:56.200 --> 00:51:57.780
about very often. It was actually part of
1234
00:51:57.780 --> 00:52:01.260
our investor presentation where we are expecting there
1235
00:52:01.260 --> 00:52:04.100
to be a policy response zone, which is
1236
00:52:04.100 --> 00:52:06.460
funny. we started talking about this kind of
1237
00:52:06.460 --> 00:52:08.340
through the end of this decade. We expect
1238
00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:10.620
bond yields to rise. And what was really
1239
00:52:10.620 --> 00:52:12.220
funny is over the past three weeks, we've
1240
00:52:12.220 --> 00:52:14.300
had to update that slide with those bond
1241
00:52:14.300 --> 00:52:16.560
yields rising. It's like, oh, well, maybe the
1242
00:52:16.560 --> 00:52:19.240
policy response zone is at a 5 .3
1243
00:52:19.240 --> 00:52:21.260
% on the 10 year right now. And
1244
00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:23.880
what's funny is that clearly this week, we've
1245
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:26.540
seen a flight to treasuries. And we're seeing
1246
00:52:26.540 --> 00:52:30.140
this essentially, you know, this tech stock selloff
1247
00:52:30.140 --> 00:52:32.280
where people are actually going back into treasuries.
1248
00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:34.680
And I think it's totally insane. saying. I'm
1249
00:52:34.680 --> 00:52:37.440
shocked that people are buying treasuries right now.
1250
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:39.600
I think by now, it's like if you
1251
00:52:39.600 --> 00:52:42.000
don't understand that, you know, you're going to
1252
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.600
get absolutely eviscerated by inflation by buying these
1253
00:52:44.600 --> 00:52:46.720
things. I don't know what will save people.
1254
00:52:46.720 --> 00:52:48.460
Joe, I know that you're the macro expert,
1255
00:52:48.460 --> 00:52:50.720
but what do you think about this flight
1256
00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:52.400
to treasuries this week a little bit where
1257
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.820
the yield dropped like, I don't know, 30
1258
00:52:54.820 --> 00:52:57.640
basis points or so. Yeah, so it's, you
1259
00:52:57.640 --> 00:52:59.160
know, I had filmed a live call for
1260
00:52:59.160 --> 00:53:01.760
my group. Settle plug, by the way, if
1261
00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:03.420
you want the Bitcoin terminal, what you're seeing
1262
00:53:03.420 --> 00:53:06.080
right now. Basically, the reason I made this
1263
00:53:06.080 --> 00:53:07.840
was because I lost access to my free
1264
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.700
Bloomberg terminal after five years, and so I
1265
00:53:09.700 --> 00:53:12.000
just had, I went in and recreated the
1266
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:13.480
whole thing. So this is basically all the
1267
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:15.740
function of a normal Bloomberg terminal, but with
1268
00:53:15.740 --> 00:53:17.540
a ton of other Bitcoin stuff. You can
1269
00:53:17.540 --> 00:53:20.180
see it like massive flight to safety bid,
1270
00:53:20.180 --> 00:53:22.420
you know, equity is selling off, obviously selling
1271
00:53:22.420 --> 00:53:23.900
off harder than Bitcoin is interesting. You go
1272
00:53:23.900 --> 00:53:25.600
over the last week, Bitcoin is down about
1273
00:53:25.600 --> 00:53:29.040
0 .8%. Gold is down 4%. So really
1274
00:53:29.040 --> 00:53:31.520
interesting stuff, but you, to Adam's point, you
1275
00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:33.300
are starting to see gold and Bitcoin become
1276
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:35.740
a little bit more correlated. as debasement becomes
1277
00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:37.820
a bit of a fear. Also, my contention
1278
00:53:37.820 --> 00:53:38.940
at the start of this year was that
1279
00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:40.160
it was going to be a risk off
1280
00:53:40.160 --> 00:53:43.100
year, but equities didn't really get the memo.
1281
00:53:43.100 --> 00:53:44.940
And so now, you know, the reason Bitcoin
1282
00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:47.220
is selling off to a lesser degree than
1283
00:53:47.220 --> 00:53:48.800
equities is because most of the air has
1284
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.620
already been let out of Bitcoin, but not
1285
00:53:50.620 --> 00:53:52.660
from the equity trade yet. And so you
1286
00:53:52.660 --> 00:53:53.800
start to see a little bit of weakness
1287
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:55.540
in equities, which is long overdue. You're starting
1288
00:53:55.540 --> 00:53:58.040
to see a bit in the Treasury market.
1289
00:53:58.040 --> 00:54:00.100
Ten years is falling off the face of
1290
00:54:00.100 --> 00:54:02.920
the earth, you know, down to sub 5%,
1291
00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:05.820
30 year down to 5%. 3%, the reason
1292
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:07.780
you're seeing this is a massive deceleration in
1293
00:54:07.780 --> 00:54:10.340
growth expectations. Oil and the 10 -year are
1294
00:54:10.340 --> 00:54:12.820
sort of diverging a little bit, which doesn't
1295
00:54:12.820 --> 00:54:16.800
typically happen. Basically, what I'm reading this as
1296
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.920
is the 10 -year obviously represents growth and
1297
00:54:18.920 --> 00:54:22.760
inflation expectations with oil now challenging this year's
1298
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:24.740
highs. In my mind, that's sort of the
1299
00:54:24.740 --> 00:54:27.760
market pricing in, okay, massive growth slowdown as
1300
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:31.500
a result of inflation, therefore, in all likelihood
1301
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:32.620
rates are going to come down. They're going
1302
00:54:32.620 --> 00:54:34.340
to print a ton of money. might as
1303
00:54:34.340 --> 00:54:36.060
well buy treasuries now while the going is
1304
00:54:36.060 --> 00:54:38.100
good. And so that's generally what you're seeing.
1305
00:54:38.100 --> 00:54:39.740
We're sort of late cycle where all of
1306
00:54:39.740 --> 00:54:41.520
these fears are coming to a boiling point
1307
00:54:41.520 --> 00:54:45.780
and everything are absolutely terrified. Everybody's absolutely terrified.
1308
00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:47.400
And people are saying, all right, time to
1309
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:49.640
pile into treasuries. And who could blame them,
1310
00:54:49.640 --> 00:54:51.800
right? I mean, for an asset that has
1311
00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:53.360
had in the last several years being near
1312
00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:55.680
zero, offering five and a half percent for
1313
00:54:55.680 --> 00:54:57.540
30 years, yes, please, if you're a moron,
1314
00:54:57.540 --> 00:55:01.540
I take that too. Sad, sad. I want
1315
00:55:01.540 --> 00:55:04.100
to bring up the cold card. thing so
1316
00:55:04.100 --> 00:55:05.480
i'm gonna try and figure out how to
1317
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.180
like take joe's screen off and put mine
1318
00:55:07.180 --> 00:55:09.920
back on there it is Dave you are
1319
00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:13.020
canadian like me good canadian boys obviously our
1320
00:55:13.020 --> 00:55:16.660
guy former guy i guess and bk i
1321
00:55:16.660 --> 00:55:18.380
don't know what to say about this redolfo
1322
00:55:18.380 --> 00:55:22.560
um now in a involved in legal proceeding
1323
00:55:22.560 --> 00:55:26.320
in Toronto about the coin kite hack vulnerability
1324
00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:30.140
exposure whatever um you know you mentioned earlier
1325
00:55:30.140 --> 00:55:32.420
keeping your coins offline no longer fair game
1326
00:55:32.420 --> 00:55:33.980
no longer the be all end all of
1327
00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:37.180
security. I haven't reviewed the specifics of the
1328
00:55:37.180 --> 00:55:41.240
case, but I am curious about what, um,
1329
00:55:41.240 --> 00:55:43.840
what you guys are thinking about this. Dave,
1330
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:46.400
I'll start with you obviously. To me, I
1331
00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:48.620
don't, I don't think cold card, I'll be
1332
00:55:48.620 --> 00:55:51.000
honest, like hold your tomatoes. I don't think
1333
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:54.980
they have any liability here. Uh, their, their
1334
00:55:54.980 --> 00:55:58.180
terms are pretty clear, number one. And I
1335
00:55:58.180 --> 00:56:00.640
would also suggest people go look at the
1336
00:56:00.640 --> 00:56:04.940
expectation of, you know, open source software and
1337
00:56:04.940 --> 00:56:08.140
stuff like this in their legal documents. They
1338
00:56:08.140 --> 00:56:11.740
haven't changed surprisingly in many years, even after
1339
00:56:11.740 --> 00:56:13.120
the hack, so they didn't make an attempt
1340
00:56:13.120 --> 00:56:17.660
to wash some of that stuff away. Dave,
1341
00:56:17.660 --> 00:56:18.780
is there a case here, is there not
1342
00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:20.340
a case here? What are you hearing? Tell
1343
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:22.480
me something about this. Yeah, I mean, I
1344
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:24.400
haven't dug into the specifics of what they're
1345
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:28.920
filing either, but there was negligence here, for
1346
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:32.120
sure. They're, you know, the, the, the, the
1347
00:56:32.120 --> 00:56:36.400
hubris that led to the split and the
1348
00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:39.480
whole foundation devices thing and, you know, they
1349
00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:43.460
changed all their dependencies based on that. Like,
1350
00:56:43.460 --> 00:56:45.600
there was a choice that was made that
1351
00:56:45.600 --> 00:56:47.980
lost a lot of people money. And so
1352
00:56:47.980 --> 00:56:50.100
in that sense, I can see a reason
1353
00:56:50.100 --> 00:56:52.160
that they're, you know, they could find some
1354
00:56:52.160 --> 00:56:54.500
liability. But at the same time, I can
1355
00:56:54.500 --> 00:56:56.300
also see the flip side where it's like,
1356
00:56:56.300 --> 00:56:58.680
you know, there are a million posts out
1357
00:56:58.680 --> 00:57:00.940
there of Rodolfo telling people don't generate your
1358
00:57:00.940 --> 00:57:03.800
keys using the cold card, right? Like, that
1359
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:08.540
that was a feature of convenience that they
1360
00:57:08.540 --> 00:57:11.600
didn't really see how much of a risk
1361
00:57:11.600 --> 00:57:14.520
it was going to bring into the product.
1362
00:57:14.520 --> 00:57:16.580
And, yeah, so I don't know what the,
1363
00:57:16.580 --> 00:57:18.500
what they'll find. You know, the Canadian courts
1364
00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:20.380
are such a crapshoot anyway, right? Like, it's
1365
00:57:20.380 --> 00:57:22.160
not really going to be about a search
1366
00:57:22.160 --> 00:57:24.640
for truth or whatnot. It's, it's going to
1367
00:57:24.640 --> 00:57:27.580
be a liberal judge put there serving an
1368
00:57:27.580 --> 00:57:29.900
agenda of some kind. And it really may
1369
00:57:29.900 --> 00:57:33.780
depend more on who's actually suing him. than
1370
00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:35.680
the facts of the case at the end
1371
00:57:35.680 --> 00:57:37.180
of the day. But the one thing that
1372
00:57:37.180 --> 00:57:39.080
I wanted to point out that I've kind
1373
00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:41.820
of realized after the fact, like, Gold Card
1374
00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:43.900
was like, it was like our pinnacle of
1375
00:57:43.900 --> 00:57:46.780
safety, right? It was like what every hardcore
1376
00:57:46.780 --> 00:57:49.800
Bitcoiner recommended to other hardcore bitcorner. It was
1377
00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:53.160
kind of the largest target in terms of
1378
00:57:53.160 --> 00:57:57.280
taking down something from within the Bitcoin ecosystem.
1379
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:01.700
And I think the fallout from that was
1380
00:58:01.700 --> 00:58:03.340
actually kind of a policy. positive thing because
1381
00:58:03.340 --> 00:58:04.980
you had this Bitcoin Red team spring up
1382
00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:07.860
and really check everything else and thousands of
1383
00:58:07.860 --> 00:58:10.180
vulnerabilities were found. It was going to be
1384
00:58:10.180 --> 00:58:12.740
something, right? They were going to catch somebody's
1385
00:58:12.740 --> 00:58:17.360
wallet doing something lazy. And it just so
1386
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:19.440
happened to be that one. And, you know,
1387
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:24.340
the idea that they might need to pay
1388
00:58:24.340 --> 00:58:26.140
someone for mistakes that they made doesn't seem
1389
00:58:26.140 --> 00:58:28.720
crazy to me, but, you know, I don't
1390
00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:32.300
even, I, based on how disconnected from reality,
1391
00:58:32.300 --> 00:58:33.840
the Canadian courts are i can't even make
1392
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.000
like a reasonable prediction on how that will
1393
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.900
go Adam where do you come down yeah
1394
00:58:40.900 --> 00:58:42.840
honestly i'm pretty unfamiliar with the court case
1395
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.000
in particular even more unfamiliar with the canadian
1396
00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:47.600
courts i'm like picturing a a a canadian
1397
00:58:47.600 --> 00:58:49.800
a few good men it looks like they
1398
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:51.900
all look like the judges look like dave
1399
00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:54.000
so they all wear man if we had
1400
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:56.660
if we had uh you you must own
1401
00:58:56.660 --> 00:58:59.140
a fur hat and you must be able
1402
00:58:59.140 --> 00:59:01.820
to bench 225 as the requirements to sit
1403
00:59:01.820 --> 00:59:03.080
on the bench, we would have a very
1404
00:59:03.080 --> 00:59:06.520
reasonable court system. and side point on the
1405
00:59:06.520 --> 00:59:07.300
half. I think physical strength would be a
1406
00:59:07.300 --> 00:59:11.160
great prerequisite for a more just justice system.
1407
00:59:11.160 --> 00:59:15.580
I think that would. Absolutely. Yeah, it's if
1408
00:59:15.580 --> 00:59:17.520
it was, if you were required to have
1409
00:59:17.520 --> 00:59:21.600
some way to demonstrate low time preference, then
1410
00:59:21.600 --> 00:59:23.960
it would validate your decision making for sure.
1411
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:25.780
But I have to point out on the
1412
00:59:25.780 --> 00:59:28.680
fur hat that the the day that Canada
1413
00:59:28.680 --> 00:59:31.280
died is one of two, things. There's two
1414
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:34.320
moments in history. One is when they got
1415
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:37.800
rid of Don Cherry, when they canceled him
1416
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:40.780
for being himself, and the other was the
1417
00:59:40.780 --> 00:59:43.240
day that the Hudson Bay Company stopped selling
1418
00:59:43.240 --> 00:59:47.420
fur. They went for 350 years. The oldest
1419
00:59:47.420 --> 00:59:50.880
company in North America founded on fur trading,
1420
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.360
and in 2022, they stopped selling fur, and
1421
00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:57.140
by 2025 they were bankrupt. 2026, the Eaton
1422
00:59:57.140 --> 00:59:59.560
Center Hudson Bay Company is now a storage
1423
00:59:59.560 --> 01:00:01.180
unit. I don't know if you know that.
1424
01:00:01.180 --> 01:00:02.800
I live, you know, about 45 minutes from
1425
01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:04.500
Toronto, so I can confirm that for you.
1426
01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:07.880
Anyway, Adam, the coin kite cold card, and
1427
01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:11.040
maybe like your broader thoughts on custody for
1428
01:00:11.040 --> 01:00:14.600
Bitcoiners. You guys are not necessarily, I don't
1429
01:00:14.600 --> 01:00:15.700
want for words in your mouth, but you're
1430
01:00:15.700 --> 01:00:17.760
not necessarily a replacement in a lot of
1431
01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:19.720
people's minds for self -custody Bitcoin in the
1432
01:00:19.720 --> 01:00:23.980
way like MSTR, Ibit, whatever are. Like, talk
1433
01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:25.160
to me about this. You guys obviously talk
1434
01:00:25.160 --> 01:00:26.400
to investors, as you said there. What is
1435
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:28.500
the, what is the thinking out there for
1436
01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:31.380
corporates, for boards, and, terms of custody these
1437
01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:34.120
days. That's a great question. And I definitely
1438
01:00:34.120 --> 01:00:35.760
agree with you that there is no replacement
1439
01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:38.800
for Bitcoin and self -custody. Risk is omnipotent,
1440
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:40.780
like I just said earlier. And you are
1441
01:00:40.780 --> 01:00:44.160
taking additional counterparty risk by buying equities and
1442
01:00:44.160 --> 01:00:46.160
even like banking with a traditional bank or
1443
01:00:46.160 --> 01:00:48.040
having a broker, these are these things that
1444
01:00:48.040 --> 01:00:51.420
just you can't get. I mean, sorry, it's
1445
01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:53.360
just reality. Like, you can't replace that. Bitcoin
1446
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:55.640
is a bearer asset. We all know this.
1447
01:00:55.640 --> 01:00:57.580
Like, there is no true replacement. But in
1448
01:00:57.580 --> 01:01:00.500
terms of overall risk, this definitely is. something
1449
01:01:00.500 --> 01:01:02.980
that we talk a lot about with institutions
1450
01:01:02.980 --> 01:01:05.060
and right now like we are vetting all
1451
01:01:05.060 --> 01:01:07.460
of our custodians where we actually just had
1452
01:01:07.460 --> 01:01:09.240
a call recently I think it was two
1453
01:01:09.240 --> 01:01:11.900
days ago with a variety of custodians where
1454
01:01:11.900 --> 01:01:14.480
we're actually having them walk through how do
1455
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:17.540
you guys generate entropy for your wallets because
1456
01:01:17.540 --> 01:01:19.980
we obviously saw this happen over the summer
1457
01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:22.220
and we want to essentially dot our eyes
1458
01:01:22.220 --> 01:01:24.180
cross or T's regarding the entire safety thing
1459
01:01:24.180 --> 01:01:26.460
so it's something that's top of mind and
1460
01:01:26.460 --> 01:01:28.760
uh yeah it's a real shame that this
1461
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:31.680
happened over the summer. Regarding the court case,
1462
01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:33.160
I just wonder to the degree that there
1463
01:01:33.160 --> 01:01:34.880
is liability there. I think that's the biggest
1464
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:37.260
question mark. But I'm excited to hear more
1465
01:01:37.260 --> 01:01:40.960
because watching this play out some interesting drama,
1466
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.980
that's for sure. Couldn't happen to a nicer
1467
01:01:42.980 --> 01:01:45.060
guy. Joe, do you have any comments on
1468
01:01:45.060 --> 01:01:50.580
self -custody versus the ETFs versus the likelihood
1469
01:01:50.580 --> 01:01:52.740
that a new participant may be top of
1470
01:01:52.740 --> 01:01:57.020
funnel type goes toward a ticker symbol rather
1471
01:01:57.020 --> 01:02:00.520
than a hard. hardware wallet. Yeah, I mean,
1472
01:02:00.520 --> 01:02:03.360
I'd say that the ETS are useful in
1473
01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:05.500
my mind, as far as adoption is concerned,
1474
01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:06.980
they hold a ton of Bitcoin. And I
1475
01:02:06.980 --> 01:02:10.000
think that over the last couple of shows
1476
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:11.080
that I've done over the last couple of
1477
01:02:11.080 --> 01:02:12.440
weeks have kind of railed against the paper
1478
01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:15.740
Bitcoin argument quite a bit because of just
1479
01:02:15.740 --> 01:02:20.380
the rigorous auditing involved with these vehicles. But
1480
01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:22.700
as far as like sovereign entities are concerned,
1481
01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:24.680
I've long said that ETSs are going to
1482
01:02:24.680 --> 01:02:26.720
naturally push people to holding spot Bitcoin because
1483
01:02:26.720 --> 01:02:27.800
you sort of come for the money, go
1484
01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:29.980
up, you for the sovereignty that it provides
1485
01:02:29.980 --> 01:02:31.300
you. I mean, certainly that was the case
1486
01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:33.660
for me. I was just a stupid 17
1487
01:02:33.660 --> 01:02:35.280
-year -old, but way too much money. And,
1488
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:37.060
you know, I bought for a number to
1489
01:02:37.060 --> 01:02:38.440
go up and I stayed for everything else.
1490
01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:40.800
And so that seems to be the case
1491
01:02:40.800 --> 01:02:42.720
elsewhere as well. Charles Schwab and others are
1492
01:02:42.720 --> 01:02:45.100
now launching the ability to redeem your ETF,
1493
01:02:45.100 --> 01:02:46.380
four -spot Bitcoin, and then also move it
1494
01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:48.380
off platform. It's quite cool. So I think
1495
01:02:48.380 --> 01:02:50.160
we'll see a similar path. And sovereigns that
1496
01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:53.020
are very serious, in my mind, will be
1497
01:02:53.020 --> 01:02:57.260
taking self -custody to some degree. Obviously, it
1498
01:02:57.260 --> 01:03:01.600
gets more complicated. the larger you are as
1499
01:03:01.600 --> 01:03:02.800
an entity, but I tend to think that
1500
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:05.740
that's the path, at least long term, for
1501
01:03:05.740 --> 01:03:07.420
these entities. Whether or not they go the
1502
01:03:07.420 --> 01:03:09.400
ETF route first remains to be seen anything.
1503
01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:11.260
That's very likely, but I think self -custody
1504
01:03:11.260 --> 01:03:13.400
is the ultimate destination. I like that a
1505
01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:15.460
lot. Joe, you got to go because you
1506
01:03:15.460 --> 01:03:17.160
have family obligations. Do you want to tell
1507
01:03:17.160 --> 01:03:19.440
people anything before you leave? Maybe another shameless
1508
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:23.180
plug for that dashboard there or like tell
1509
01:03:23.180 --> 01:03:25.240
people what you bench, whatever. You can do
1510
01:03:25.240 --> 01:03:27.860
whatever you want. Okay, so I bench 285
1511
01:03:27.860 --> 01:03:30.200
on incline now because I'm big and fat.
1512
01:03:30.200 --> 01:03:33.340
Inclined 285 is, yeah. So, well, the thing
1513
01:03:33.340 --> 01:03:34.940
is, yeah, well, thank you. Well, the thing
1514
01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:36.360
is what I just do! Inclined because it
1515
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:37.740
hits the rest of the chest as well,
1516
01:03:37.740 --> 01:03:39.120
and it looks like a really nice shelf.
1517
01:03:39.120 --> 01:03:40.520
But at the expense, I no longer have
1518
01:03:40.520 --> 01:03:43.640
visible abs and I'm very fat. You could
1519
01:03:43.640 --> 01:03:46.100
find me before the winter Joe, before the
1520
01:03:46.100 --> 01:03:48.900
winter. We'll call it the winter ball. He's
1521
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:50.320
got his Adam, he just had his first
1522
01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:51.400
kid. He's going to be, he's going to
1523
01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:53.160
find that things get much more difficult from
1524
01:03:53.160 --> 01:03:54.800
here. He's like in his mid -20s, just
1525
01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:56.780
at his first kid. This is nothing. Just
1526
01:03:56.780 --> 01:03:57.640
waiting a couple of I just had my
1527
01:03:57.640 --> 01:03:59.700
first one. I think a couple of years.
1528
01:03:59.700 --> 01:04:02.040
Adam didn't gain a pound. No, no, no,
1529
01:04:02.040 --> 01:04:03.580
I have. I have. It's bad. I haven't
1530
01:04:03.580 --> 01:04:05.060
been in good shape like in four years,
1531
01:04:05.060 --> 01:04:06.000
Joe. I know what it was like when
1532
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:08.420
I was your age, man. It's rough. Yeah,
1533
01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:09.900
well, you know, you can find my YouTube
1534
01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:12.480
channel, uh, Joe Consortium everywhere at Joe Consortium.
1535
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:13.960
Pleasuredier. Pleasure speaking with you boys as always.
1536
01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:15.100
And Adam, you got to come on more
1537
01:04:15.100 --> 01:04:16.920
often. This is fun. Yeah. Yeah, I love
1538
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:18.440
the show. So if I'm open as a
1539
01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:20.180
guest, then by all means, I'd love to.
1540
01:04:20.180 --> 01:04:21.680
Okay, we're going to break. We'll be right
1541
01:04:21.680 --> 01:04:23.740
back. We got one more segment, which includes
1542
01:04:23.740 --> 01:04:25.760
a video that Ben and Nathan just sent
1543
01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:27.220
me about what they're doing instead of being
1544
01:04:27.220 --> 01:04:28.640
here with you guys, make it that what
1545
01:04:28.640 --> 01:04:31.420
you will. See in a couple minutes. You
1546
01:04:31.420 --> 01:04:32.700
already know that you can't leave your seed
1547
01:04:32.700 --> 01:04:34.060
phrase on paper. It needs to be on
1548
01:04:34.060 --> 01:04:35.340
metal. What you might not know is that
1549
01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:36.800
more Bitcoin has actually been lost and been
1550
01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:38.700
stolen. More than 10 times the amount ever
1551
01:04:38.700 --> 01:04:40.500
hacked, gone because someone lost their keys. Your
1552
01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:42.900
biggest risk isn't some shadowy supercoder, it's time
1553
01:04:42.900 --> 01:04:45.440
in the elements. That's why Stampseed uses titanium.
1554
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:47.280
Titanium never rusts. Doesn't matter if it's a
1555
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:48.620
raging housefire at the bottom of the ocean
1556
01:04:48.620 --> 01:04:50.320
or sitting at store for 50 years, titanium
1557
01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:52.300
doesn't care. One salt piece, nothing to come
1558
01:04:52.300 --> 01:04:54.060
apart that you hammer in. By the stamp
1559
01:04:54.060 --> 01:04:55.200
seed kit and as your set of evolves,
1560
01:04:55.200 --> 01:04:56.800
you just grab more plates. Stamp it once
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01:04:56.800 --> 01:04:58.520
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1562
01:04:58.520 --> 01:05:00.160
for the advanced users, there's the clear code
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1564
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1565
01:05:04.340 --> 01:05:06.340
your descriptor backed up on titanium. This is
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01:05:06.340 --> 01:05:08.120
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sessions or scan the QR code on the
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01:06:07.600 --> 01:06:10.760
screen. We should talk about the, there's some
1598
01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:12.200
other stuff on the docket, obviously, but we
1599
01:06:12.200 --> 01:06:14.380
may as well talk about like Alberta separation.
1600
01:06:14.380 --> 01:06:15.220
Adam, I don't know how much you know
1601
01:06:15.220 --> 01:06:17.980
about this or care about this, but we
1602
01:06:17.980 --> 01:06:19.840
just had a vote. vote up here earlier
1603
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:23.420
in the week where allegedly, allegedly we have
1604
01:06:23.420 --> 01:06:24.800
the same problem with mail -ins that you
1605
01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:28.480
guys do. Only 20 or something percent, Dave,
1606
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:29.660
you can correct me on the number, voted
1607
01:06:29.660 --> 01:06:34.060
to secede or at least begin the begin
1608
01:06:34.060 --> 01:06:38.380
the process for secession from Canada and start
1609
01:06:38.380 --> 01:06:40.820
thinking about becoming independent. I'm necessarily joining the
1610
01:06:40.820 --> 01:06:43.480
United States, but becoming an independent province, independent
1611
01:06:43.480 --> 01:06:47.360
state, whatever. Dave, I'll go to you first,
1612
01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:50.640
since you're obviously, among other things, like, what
1613
01:06:50.640 --> 01:06:53.220
do you think happen with that vote? Let's
1614
01:06:53.220 --> 01:06:55.120
assume the number's correct. And it very well
1615
01:06:55.120 --> 01:06:56.820
may be. I think you guys got about,
1616
01:06:56.820 --> 01:06:59.880
it sounds like, about 25 or 35 %
1617
01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:04.880
turnout. Like, how do you square that circle
1618
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:07.460
with what's been going on between Alberta and
1619
01:07:07.460 --> 01:07:11.520
Ottawa, Alberta and the U .S.? Obviously, the
1620
01:07:11.520 --> 01:07:14.220
Trump administration is taking a keen interest in
1621
01:07:14.220 --> 01:07:16.920
Alberta, and maybe specifically, I should say, the
1622
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:21.100
resources. doesn't seem to have landed with enough
1623
01:07:21.100 --> 01:07:24.440
of the population there. What's the deal? Yeah,
1624
01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:29.800
so brief background. Alberta has more oil than
1625
01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:31.820
anywhere in the world. We have the largest
1626
01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:34.380
resource of oil. We have more oil than
1627
01:07:34.380 --> 01:07:39.120
Venezuela, Iran, and Saudi Arabia combined. And, you
1628
01:07:39.120 --> 01:07:41.940
know, we've been stifled from developing that for
1629
01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:45.860
decades. And we're now in this spot where
1630
01:07:45.860 --> 01:07:49.440
as a Canadian, you pay taxes to the
1631
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:51.580
federal government and the federal government distributes them
1632
01:07:51.580 --> 01:07:53.740
to the provinces and they have something called
1633
01:07:53.740 --> 01:07:57.340
equalization payments wherein the provinces that make more
1634
01:07:57.340 --> 01:08:00.980
money get less back and the result of
1635
01:08:00.980 --> 01:08:02.800
that has been that every single year since
1636
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:04.820
this has happened Alberta has been a half
1637
01:08:04.820 --> 01:08:07.200
province as they described them and we pay
1638
01:08:07.200 --> 01:08:08.920
into this pool that goes out to the
1639
01:08:08.920 --> 01:08:13.240
other provinces and you know overall it's almost
1640
01:08:13.240 --> 01:08:16.060
exclusively Alberta paying in it's you know the
1641
01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:18.560
vast majority of the money sent to the
1642
01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:19.940
rest of the country has been paid in
1643
01:08:19.940 --> 01:08:21.820
by Alberta and the vast majority of that
1644
01:08:21.820 --> 01:08:26.500
money goes to Ontario and Quebec. And we've
1645
01:08:26.500 --> 01:08:29.080
kind of just been railing against this system
1646
01:08:29.080 --> 01:08:31.260
where, you know, not only are we paying
1647
01:08:31.260 --> 01:08:33.120
for the whole of Confederation, but we are
1648
01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:36.240
underrepresented. You know what I mean? We've, we've
1649
01:08:36.240 --> 01:08:42.160
never had a proportional representation on our legislature,
1650
01:08:42.160 --> 01:08:44.280
which is like our Congress, and we've never
1651
01:08:44.280 --> 01:08:47.800
had, we have a Senate in Canada as
1652
01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:49.760
well that is is kind of a real
1653
01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:53.080
thing, but not really. It's an appointed Senate,
1654
01:08:53.080 --> 01:08:56.500
and they're more of a rubber stamp entity
1655
01:08:56.500 --> 01:08:59.020
than anything. There's never really been a case
1656
01:08:59.020 --> 01:09:01.240
where the Senate weighs in in a meaningful
1657
01:09:01.240 --> 01:09:04.180
way into the creation of law. And so
1658
01:09:04.180 --> 01:09:06.480
we're, you know, it's kind of like the
1659
01:09:06.480 --> 01:09:09.700
basis of the American Revolution. It's taxation without
1660
01:09:09.700 --> 01:09:12.380
representation. And at this point, there's a lot
1661
01:09:12.380 --> 01:09:15.120
of people who just want out of this
1662
01:09:15.120 --> 01:09:19.740
point. bargaining. And so we, you know, we've
1663
01:09:19.740 --> 01:09:23.880
had this growing Alberta separatist movement. I became
1664
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:26.920
a separatist when Trudeau was reelected in 2019.
1665
01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:29.360
They've been talking about it nonstop since then.
1666
01:09:29.360 --> 01:09:31.800
And we finally got to the point after
1667
01:09:31.800 --> 01:09:36.720
many, many decades of abuse. The abuse of
1668
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:39.020
Alberta really started in the 70s with the
1669
01:09:39.020 --> 01:09:41.980
original Pierre Trudeau. And since then, we just
1670
01:09:41.980 --> 01:09:45.880
haven't gotten a fair shaking confederation and you
1671
01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:47.640
know we just finally got to the point
1672
01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:50.440
where enough of this sentiment had had created
1673
01:09:50.440 --> 01:09:53.560
a groundswell that we got um we got
1674
01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:55.460
a referendum you know we had a we
1675
01:09:55.460 --> 01:09:58.280
have a provincial law that requires a referendum
1676
01:09:58.280 --> 01:10:00.020
if you get enough signatures you can force
1677
01:10:00.020 --> 01:10:03.300
a referendum on anything and uh we had
1678
01:10:03.300 --> 01:10:05.080
a group that got enough signatures to force
1679
01:10:05.080 --> 01:10:09.640
a referendum on alberta independence and the the
1680
01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:11.640
response from the daniel smith government was not
1681
01:10:11.640 --> 01:10:14.200
to hold a referendum on independent as the
1682
01:10:14.200 --> 01:10:17.440
law required and the vote showed and the
1683
01:10:17.440 --> 01:10:20.380
signature showed, the response was to say that
1684
01:10:20.380 --> 01:10:22.900
instead of holding a referendum on Albert Independence,
1685
01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:23.820
what we're going to do is hold a
1686
01:10:23.820 --> 01:10:27.300
referendum to decide whether we should hold a
1687
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:29.720
referendum. There was like eight other questions alongside
1688
01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:31.720
it, right? Like that ballot was, you know,
1689
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.380
it was on full scale. Yeah, exactly. There
1690
01:10:34.380 --> 01:10:37.980
was nine other questions and the questions touched
1691
01:10:37.980 --> 01:10:42.280
pretty much all on the issue in one
1692
01:10:42.280 --> 01:10:45.060
way or another. of provincial powers versus federal
1693
01:10:45.060 --> 01:10:48.180
powers, and many of them focused on immigration.
1694
01:10:48.180 --> 01:10:50.060
And so that's the part that's kind of
1695
01:10:50.060 --> 01:10:52.520
up in the air. You know, the separatist
1696
01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:55.060
movement I don't think was going to win
1697
01:10:55.060 --> 01:10:56.960
one way or the other on this election
1698
01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:59.260
because there was really no leadership. There was
1699
01:10:59.260 --> 01:11:02.500
nobody telling Albertans, hey, you know what, you're
1700
01:11:02.500 --> 01:11:04.240
going to save $20 ,000 a year on
1701
01:11:04.240 --> 01:11:07.900
your taxes if we separate from Canada, which
1702
01:11:07.900 --> 01:11:10.020
is the math. That's the reality of the
1703
01:11:10.020 --> 01:11:14.200
situation. and the full force of the globalist
1704
01:11:14.200 --> 01:11:20.700
machine and their election manipulation, election rigging was
1705
01:11:20.700 --> 01:11:23.020
in force here, and we saw things like
1706
01:11:23.020 --> 01:11:24.560
the global and mail, which is the, you
1707
01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:26.860
know, one of the biggest newspapers in Canada,
1708
01:11:26.860 --> 01:11:28.880
came out with a story like three or
1709
01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:30.460
four days before the election saying that the
1710
01:11:30.460 --> 01:11:32.900
majority of the doctors in Alberta would leave
1711
01:11:32.900 --> 01:11:36.100
if we separate, for example. And it, like,
1712
01:11:36.100 --> 01:11:37.860
those kind of things are, it's so absurd,
1713
01:11:37.860 --> 01:11:41.140
right? It's like, and frankly, we probably would
1714
01:11:41.140 --> 01:11:43.500
be great if the majority of our doctors
1715
01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:45.320
left at this point because the majority of
1716
01:11:45.320 --> 01:11:47.760
our doctors are not real doctors. They're not
1717
01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:49.960
Canadians who are trained in a Canadian system
1718
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:51.640
or or people who are trained in any
1719
01:11:51.640 --> 01:11:56.540
medical system in the West whatsoever. And, you
1720
01:11:56.540 --> 01:12:00.820
know, so we've been bombarded with the results
1721
01:12:00.820 --> 01:12:03.620
of this machine that they apply to every
1722
01:12:03.620 --> 01:12:06.000
election. And now we're sort of in in
1723
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:09.440
the spot where we've got these nine extra
1724
01:12:09.440 --> 01:12:12.580
questions that, you know, most of them voted
1725
01:12:12.580 --> 01:12:15.200
yes because they're absolutely, you'd have to be
1726
01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:16.760
absolutely insane to vote no on some of
1727
01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:18.640
these things. One of the questions, for example,
1728
01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:22.460
was should we require proof of Canadian citizenship
1729
01:12:22.460 --> 01:12:25.700
to vote in elections? And like, that's already
1730
01:12:25.700 --> 01:12:27.260
in the law. Well, there was a few,
1731
01:12:27.260 --> 01:12:28.900
few easy ones, right? Like, it was access
1732
01:12:28.900 --> 01:12:31.640
to elections, access to health care and social
1733
01:12:31.640 --> 01:12:35.860
services. Should we restrict illegal immigration into the
1734
01:12:35.860 --> 01:12:38.780
province? Easy ones, right? Sorry, continue. Yeah, exactly.
1735
01:12:38.780 --> 01:12:40.780
Yeah, exactly. The kind of things that you.
1736
01:12:40.780 --> 01:12:44.980
No one rational and informed would ever say,
1737
01:12:44.980 --> 01:12:47.680
no, we don't want that. And so Daniel
1738
01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:50.580
Smith, the Premier of Alberta, like our governor,
1739
01:12:50.580 --> 01:12:53.540
her response, instead of saying, yes, you know
1740
01:12:53.540 --> 01:12:56.180
what, you've got enough signatures to hold a
1741
01:12:56.180 --> 01:12:59.200
referendum on this, was to say, we're going
1742
01:12:59.200 --> 01:13:01.100
to kind of hold a referendum on this,
1743
01:13:01.100 --> 01:13:03.320
but also hold all these other small referendums.
1744
01:13:03.320 --> 01:13:05.940
And the theory was that she would come
1745
01:13:05.940 --> 01:13:08.260
out of this with a mandate to challenge
1746
01:13:08.260 --> 01:13:10.600
the federal government on our provincial sovereignty and
1747
01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:11.800
on the. the rights that we're supposed to
1748
01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:15.460
have that other provinces like Quebec already have,
1749
01:13:15.460 --> 01:13:19.800
but now we're seeing these somewhat questionable results
1750
01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:22.320
come in and sort of skew some of
1751
01:13:22.320 --> 01:13:25.280
those extra questions as well, wherein, you know,
1752
01:13:25.280 --> 01:13:27.820
you had a massive, massive increase. I think
1753
01:13:27.820 --> 01:13:30.660
our last election that we had was something
1754
01:13:30.660 --> 01:13:36.880
like 50 ,000 advance and mail -in ballots.
1755
01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:39.140
And we're, I think we're at, you know,
1756
01:13:39.140 --> 01:13:42.440
six or 700 ,000. It's an enormous number.
1757
01:13:42.440 --> 01:13:44.500
The bar chart is like, it's unerving to
1758
01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:48.100
see it. Yeah. And so, um, I don't
1759
01:13:48.100 --> 01:13:51.900
know if that mandate exists. A mandate isn't
1760
01:13:51.900 --> 01:13:53.480
a real thing that you can measure or
1761
01:13:53.480 --> 01:13:56.780
not. So it's hard to say. But if
1762
01:13:56.780 --> 01:13:58.640
you look at the, if you look at
1763
01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:01.160
the results in what actual Albertan said, it's
1764
01:14:01.160 --> 01:14:02.880
that we have had enough of this. You
1765
01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:04.860
know, we've had enough of the federal government
1766
01:14:04.860 --> 01:14:08.540
dumping an unlimited number of immigrants who don't
1767
01:14:08.540 --> 01:14:10.960
fit into our society on us. We've, had
1768
01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:14.560
enough of the federal government overreaching on their
1769
01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:17.920
powers as defined in the Constitution. And the
1770
01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:21.780
best thing that came out of this is
1771
01:14:21.780 --> 01:14:25.140
that we're able to start challenging the federal
1772
01:14:25.140 --> 01:14:27.540
government and get similar rights to the province
1773
01:14:27.540 --> 01:14:32.220
of Quebec. And I think we, like I
1774
01:14:32.220 --> 01:14:33.960
mentioned before, I think we've seen the death
1775
01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:36.220
of Canada. I think Canada is over as
1776
01:14:36.220 --> 01:14:38.100
a country. I'm sure you guys have both
1777
01:14:38.100 --> 01:14:40.580
read the sovereign individual, which in the middle
1778
01:14:40.580 --> 01:14:43.580
of the book predicts that Alberta will separate,
1779
01:14:43.580 --> 01:14:46.720
causing Canada to be the first large -scale
1780
01:14:46.720 --> 01:14:48.440
nation -state to fall in the way that
1781
01:14:48.440 --> 01:14:51.780
the book predicts. And, you know, I still
1782
01:14:51.780 --> 01:14:54.640
think that's coming. I still think Alberta will
1783
01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:56.280
be one of the first places to be
1784
01:14:56.280 --> 01:14:59.040
truly sovereign in the world from this globalist
1785
01:14:59.040 --> 01:15:01.920
agenda. But, you know, they're making a good,
1786
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:04.140
they're making a good play of it. They're
1787
01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:06.180
pulling out all the stops because there's just,
1788
01:15:06.180 --> 01:15:08.020
you know, there's too much oil for them
1789
01:15:08.020 --> 01:15:10.780
to ignore this and allow us to separate.
1790
01:15:10.780 --> 01:15:13.260
Adam, I don't want to unfairly characterize you
1791
01:15:13.260 --> 01:15:15.780
as a former content guy, but you're a
1792
01:15:15.780 --> 01:15:17.900
C -suite guy now, okay? And I don't
1793
01:15:17.900 --> 01:15:19.000
want to put you in a box with
1794
01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:20.520
a difficult answer here. But you've got to
1795
01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:25.320
tell me what is the thinking around Canadian
1796
01:15:25.320 --> 01:15:27.460
provinces joining the U .S. You guys obviously
1797
01:15:27.460 --> 01:15:29.240
have, I don't want to say a similar
1798
01:15:29.240 --> 01:15:32.420
situation, but it's akin to Alberta and Texas.
1799
01:15:32.420 --> 01:15:34.060
There's obviously been discussions about, you know, this
1800
01:15:34.060 --> 01:15:35.840
sort of Texas secession movement over the last
1801
01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:38.480
three, four, or five years. Let's say it's
1802
01:15:38.480 --> 01:15:40.420
ramped up a bit. How do you guys
1803
01:15:40.420 --> 01:15:42.020
think about it? this in the U .S.
1804
01:15:42.020 --> 01:15:44.300
And maybe like, you know, what is the,
1805
01:15:44.300 --> 01:15:47.480
what is the thinking around the strength of
1806
01:15:47.480 --> 01:15:49.980
the union as far as, you know, you
1807
01:15:49.980 --> 01:15:53.460
kind of want provinces, in my opinion anyway,
1808
01:15:53.460 --> 01:15:55.020
you kind of, I'm thinking about the Canadian
1809
01:15:55.020 --> 01:15:57.380
example, you want provinces that are strong enough
1810
01:15:57.380 --> 01:15:59.640
that they can go out on their own,
1811
01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:01.980
because that makes the country stronger if you
1812
01:16:01.980 --> 01:16:03.920
can rein them in and sort of like
1813
01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:06.980
harness that power. You don't want all provinces,
1814
01:16:06.980 --> 01:16:08.940
all states to be, you know, bending the
1815
01:16:08.940 --> 01:16:11.280
knee at all times. How does the US
1816
01:16:11.280 --> 01:16:13.620
think about that in their borders and how
1817
01:16:13.620 --> 01:16:14.720
do they think about what's going on in
1818
01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:17.580
Alberta? That's a great question. And honestly, guys,
1819
01:16:17.580 --> 01:16:20.160
I wasn't familiar with this movement, but I
1820
01:16:20.160 --> 01:16:22.980
am diet Canadian. So I am pretty close
1821
01:16:22.980 --> 01:16:25.240
to you guys. I'm Minnesotan. So we have
1822
01:16:25.240 --> 01:16:30.360
very polarizing political things happening in the last
1823
01:16:30.360 --> 01:16:32.380
year in this state where you mentioned a
1824
01:16:32.380 --> 01:16:34.620
lot of interesting things like the things that
1825
01:16:34.620 --> 01:16:36.360
you would think are non -starters in terms
1826
01:16:36.360 --> 01:16:39.560
of allowing illegal immigrants to have certain civil
1827
01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:41.640
services. Like, for example, in the state of
1828
01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:44.880
Minnesota, we give illegal immigrants driver's licenses, which
1829
01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:47.140
is very interesting. So there is a lot
1830
01:16:47.140 --> 01:16:50.200
of political polarization. And the big question I've
1831
01:16:50.200 --> 01:16:51.840
been asking in the United States over the
1832
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:55.160
last few years is, when is balkanization going
1833
01:16:55.160 --> 01:16:57.320
to happen? Because ever since Trump got elected
1834
01:16:57.320 --> 01:17:00.320
in 16, like, the country is like twice
1835
01:17:00.320 --> 01:17:01.840
as polarized. And I thought it was bad
1836
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:04.540
back then. And, you know, from the outsider's
1837
01:17:04.540 --> 01:17:07.700
perspective, looking at Canada, I've seen just tremendous
1838
01:17:07.700 --> 01:17:10.480
debate over the long -term, trend of the
1839
01:17:10.480 --> 01:17:12.840
country, like it seems like the dialogue has
1840
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:16.360
become overwhelmingly negative from Canada over the last
1841
01:17:16.360 --> 01:17:18.460
five years or so. And obviously you saw
1842
01:17:18.460 --> 01:17:20.800
the Canadian trucker protests, but now that there's
1843
01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:24.260
actual separatist movements being talked about and being
1844
01:17:24.260 --> 01:17:27.240
like even considered by a solid portion of
1845
01:17:27.240 --> 01:17:28.980
the populace thing. Had a real vote the
1846
01:17:28.980 --> 01:17:31.680
other day. A 25 % turnout is what
1847
01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:34.480
I'm reading, which is interesting. So, um, you
1848
01:17:34.480 --> 01:17:36.180
know, I look at the broader thing. I
1849
01:17:36.180 --> 01:17:38.120
think that states do need to be competitive
1850
01:17:38.120 --> 01:17:42.080
to, you know, obviously bring in productive citizens.
1851
01:17:42.080 --> 01:17:43.420
There's a lapper curve. You don't want to
1852
01:17:43.420 --> 01:17:46.040
tax productive people too much. So you drive
1853
01:17:46.040 --> 01:17:48.180
out productivity in your state. But I look
1854
01:17:48.180 --> 01:17:50.060
at the state of a Western civilization with
1855
01:17:50.060 --> 01:17:52.220
the U .S., with Canada, with even what's
1856
01:17:52.220 --> 01:17:54.080
happening in France right now. It seems like
1857
01:17:54.080 --> 01:17:57.800
there is increasingly civil disobedience happening. And I
1858
01:17:57.800 --> 01:18:00.360
don't think that they're from the taxpayers necessarily.
1859
01:18:00.360 --> 01:18:02.880
So it's getting ugly and I pray that
1860
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:05.780
things get better. But yeah, I do think
1861
01:18:05.780 --> 01:18:07.000
that I can relate to a lot of
1862
01:18:07.000 --> 01:18:08.040
the stuff that you guys were just saying
1863
01:18:08.040 --> 01:18:13.060
about Alberta. I love that you're from Minnesota.
1864
01:18:13.060 --> 01:18:14.280
I mean, do you have a Leering Center
1865
01:18:14.280 --> 01:18:17.800
hoodie? I don't have the swag. I don't
1866
01:18:17.800 --> 01:18:19.300
have the leering center swag, but I need
1867
01:18:19.300 --> 01:18:21.000
to get it. I love it. I love
1868
01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:24.300
it. Okay. In the interest of allowing you
1869
01:18:24.300 --> 01:18:25.500
guys to talk a bit about what you're
1870
01:18:25.500 --> 01:18:27.500
both doing, obviously, you guys are both first
1871
01:18:27.500 --> 01:18:29.040
timers on the show. I'm going to give
1872
01:18:29.040 --> 01:18:31.180
you the platform here each for a little
1873
01:18:31.180 --> 01:18:32.340
bit of time, tell people where they can
1874
01:18:32.340 --> 01:18:33.980
find you, learn more about you. And then
1875
01:18:33.980 --> 01:18:35.560
I'm going to play this video, Nathan just
1876
01:18:35.560 --> 01:18:37.180
sent me of him and Ben. It looks
1877
01:18:37.180 --> 01:18:38.740
like, I don't want to spoil the, but
1878
01:18:38.740 --> 01:18:41.900
on stage doing some kind of rock concert.
1879
01:18:41.900 --> 01:18:43.900
So, Dave, I'll start with you. Then we'll
1880
01:18:43.900 --> 01:18:45.620
pass to Adam. We'll go to the concert
1881
01:18:45.620 --> 01:18:46.780
and we'll get out of here. We can
1882
01:18:46.780 --> 01:18:49.700
enjoy our weekend. David, tell people where they
1883
01:18:49.700 --> 01:18:51.400
can find out more about you. And maybe,
1884
01:18:51.400 --> 01:18:54.200
like, a link to the hat, I guess.
1885
01:18:54.200 --> 01:18:57.240
Is that still available? I don't know. Well,
1886
01:18:57.240 --> 01:18:58.820
I have a few hats. This is my
1887
01:18:58.820 --> 01:19:02.420
small fur hat. So, like, because it's warm
1888
01:19:02.420 --> 01:19:04.520
today, right? So when it gets cold, I'll
1889
01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:05.920
be out here in a big fur hat.
1890
01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:09.040
And that's something to behold. and my big
1891
01:19:09.040 --> 01:19:12.260
fur hat came from furhatworld .com, which I'm
1892
01:19:12.260 --> 01:19:14.680
not sponsored by, which is a travesty. Great
1893
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:17.180
URL, by the way. SEO on a hundred
1894
01:19:17.180 --> 01:19:19.220
there. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to
1895
01:19:19.220 --> 01:19:21.600
email them. I should get a sponsorship, honestly.
1896
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:23.440
But, yeah, I mean, you can find me
1897
01:19:23.440 --> 01:19:26.240
as Bitcoin Brains on Twitter. I'm not, I
1898
01:19:26.240 --> 01:19:29.080
don't have anything to pump at the moment.
1899
01:19:29.080 --> 01:19:31.460
But, you know, that's, if you want to
1900
01:19:31.460 --> 01:19:34.560
find me ranting about how much the government
1901
01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:36.660
sucks, that's probably the place to find it.
1902
01:19:36.660 --> 01:19:39.280
A great follow. a show with Nolan Bowerly
1903
01:19:39.280 --> 01:19:42.020
every day too, right? The Canadians sort of,
1904
01:19:42.020 --> 01:19:45.540
yeah. Yeah, we do that every, every Friday.
1905
01:19:45.540 --> 01:19:48.400
So if you want to look that up,
1906
01:19:48.400 --> 01:19:51.200
it's on Nolan's YouTube and Rumble at Count
1907
01:19:51.200 --> 01:19:56.360
BTC. Yeah. Very strong. Lots of anti -government
1908
01:19:56.360 --> 01:19:58.340
ranting to be found there as well. Highly
1909
01:19:58.340 --> 01:20:00.420
recommend that. Adam, tell people to let you,
1910
01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:02.760
buddy. Yeah, I am the vice president of
1911
01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:04.740
investments at Strive. We are trying to buy
1912
01:20:04.740 --> 01:20:06.300
a bunch of Bitcoin, hopefully in the number
1913
01:20:06.300 --> 01:20:08.980
two spot soon, behind strategy. We're trying to
1914
01:20:08.980 --> 01:20:10.720
come for you, Michael. I mean, you clearly
1915
01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:14.120
have a solid moat there, but we're going
1916
01:20:14.120 --> 01:20:15.220
to try as hard as we can. You
1917
01:20:15.220 --> 01:20:17.640
can find me on YouTube at Adam Livingston,
1918
01:20:17.640 --> 01:20:20.580
BTC. I am a hardcore Bitcoin maxi, always
1919
01:20:20.580 --> 01:20:22.920
breaking down macro in Bitcoin because I love
1920
01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:25.420
the orange coin. I am an orange coin
1921
01:20:25.420 --> 01:20:27.760
Bitcoin cultists. So you can find me on
1922
01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:29.740
exit Adam B. Live as well. I want
1923
01:20:29.740 --> 01:20:31.340
to give a plug to a show you
1924
01:20:31.340 --> 01:20:33.400
did with a friend of mine, Ben Schmidt
1925
01:20:33.400 --> 01:20:36.800
a little while ago. I love that. Ben's
1926
01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:39.400
a great guy. great bit coiner sneaky tall
1927
01:20:39.400 --> 01:20:40.840
in person he's got to be six two
1928
01:20:40.840 --> 01:20:43.020
or six three and his parents are very
1929
01:20:43.020 --> 01:20:45.420
nice as well so i know the whole
1930
01:20:45.420 --> 01:20:47.400
family don't ask me how that happened but
1931
01:20:47.400 --> 01:20:49.060
uh very nice people we're going to go
1932
01:20:49.060 --> 01:20:52.080
now to what i think might be the
1933
01:20:52.080 --> 01:20:54.420
most important part of the show here at
1934
01:20:54.420 --> 01:20:56.580
this i mean whatever this is i'm going
1935
01:20:56.580 --> 01:20:58.740
to play this and then we're going to
1936
01:20:58.740 --> 01:21:11.600
leave i guess here we go Is that
1937
01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:15.320
Nate on the guitar maybe? The real part
1938
01:21:15.320 --> 01:21:16.820
of the show is the guy standing on
1939
01:21:16.820 --> 01:21:21.000
the speakers doing the fucking windmill and I
1940
01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:27.940
have no idea. Not sure, not sure. Listen,
1941
01:21:27.940 --> 01:21:30.120
boys, boys and girls listening, boys on the
1942
01:21:30.120 --> 01:21:32.000
street here. Take care of yourselves, enjoy with
1943
01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:33.400
you guys. My name is Joey, that's Dave
1944
01:21:33.400 --> 01:21:34.960
Dad, and this was Big Cass. We'll see
1945
01:21:34.960 --> 01:21:38.900
you one day. You know the world is
1946
01:21:38.900 --> 01:21:42.580
heading down a dark path. Online censorship, central
1947
01:21:42.580 --> 01:21:45.840
bank digital currencies, a complete loss of privacy,
1948
01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:48.380
and it's only accelerator. Most people are falling
1949
01:21:48.380 --> 01:21:50.940
behind with the latest technology, and those that
1950
01:21:50.940 --> 01:21:53.820
aren't are sacrificing their data, their control, and
1951
01:21:53.820 --> 01:21:57.820
their dignity just to keep up. That doesn't
1952
01:21:57.820 --> 01:22:00.120
have to be you. Here, you'll have everything
1953
01:22:00.120 --> 01:22:02.440
you need to break free. Over the past
1954
01:22:02.440 --> 01:22:05.360
decade, I've helped 20 million people take control
1955
01:22:05.360 --> 01:22:07.320
of their money, their data, and their digital.
1956
01:22:07.320 --> 01:22:10.100
digital lives. Now I'm bringing everything I've learned
1957
01:22:10.100 --> 01:22:12.940
to one place. Sovereign Sessions is your home
1958
01:22:12.940 --> 01:22:17.000
to learn, master, and live freedom tech, Bitcoin,
1959
01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:21.260
AI, private communications, self -hosted tools, everything. Each
1960
01:22:21.260 --> 01:22:23.140
week, I'll walk you through step by step
1961
01:22:23.140 --> 01:22:25.960
with the most critical tools that put you
1962
01:22:25.960 --> 01:22:29.520
back in charge. Don't ask permission, take control.
1963
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:32.980
Welcome to the Sovereign Sessions.