Sarah Waddington:
Welcome to Better Business Outcomes, where we discuss how good communication can transform and grow organisations with a series of global leaders who have set the standard for what great looks like.
I'm Sarah Waddington from Wadds Inc, and I've been working in PR for more than 20 years. And in this podcast you'll hear from leaders and senior communicators about their leadership journey and how they create social impact. You'll also understand the areas you should be focusing on to build personal and organisational resilience. Find out how public relations can unlock value for your business and enjoy a great listen along the way. Well, today I have the pleasure of welcoming Clive Ormerod, who's the CEO of Les Mills International.
Welcome to the show, Clive.
Clive Ormerod:
Thank you very much, Sarah. Thanks for having me.
Sarah Waddington:
Oh, it's great to have you. And I really appreciate you making time. I know that it's been a little bit rainy and you've had the cyclone recently in, in Auckland, so doubly grateful for you being here.
Better Business outcomes is all about good leadership. Now you head up a global brand operating in 105 countries. Can you tell me about your leadership journey and where it started?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, I'll do my best. I mean, that's a really open-ended question. I think my leadership journey is ultimately probably best characterised through, through these words, which is ‘always learning, always growing, and trying to get out of my comfort zone’. And you know, I think that really filter gives a good intent on how I would like to try and show up and the impact that I'd like to have on other people. I think specifically I was probably thrown into a situation when I was younger that really helped me understand the impact that I can have on others and the role that I can play in helping people get to better outcomes. And when I was 15, my dad passed away and that was a real moment in my life personally where the role I played in the family shifted quite intentionally and overnight. And I think from that moment forward, I've really had the opportunity to continue to try and make the biggest impact I can on others and in teams.
And I know that I'm always learning. I know that there is never a perfect outcome, but I'm hungry to make sure that I stay out of my comfort zone. And I think with that, my ability to lead others and play an active role in teams continues to improve. So yeah, I think in a nutshell those three filters that steer how I want to show up and then there's been really impactful and meaningful moments in my life that have helped me continue to try and hone those skills and just become a better human.
Sarah Waddington:
I love that. And I'm so sorry to hear about your father, but I love to hear you talk about the impact that he is had on the person that you are and how you do business. Sadly my two boys who are 11 and 12 have just lost their father suddenly in December.
But it's lovely to see again like you how they are responding to that and the little one particularly he's using his sport and wanting to be on the football team to kind of manage and kind of yeah, work through some of that grief. But he remembers all the time there was his dad used to say in terms of how you treat other people in terms of if you wanna be a leader and you wanna get on the team and you wanna lead that team totally. You know, you've gotta, you've gotta lead with respect and empathy and you know, it does, it does make a difference to who you are in your character - certainly such a fundamental thing. And you were young at that age.
Clive Ormerod:
Similar age and, and I think it's, it's leadership very much is defined by not necessarily the cards that you get dealt, but importantly what you choose to do with them and how you choose to respond. And from my perspective, I think that's very much how I try and approach my life and the day-to-day and therefore the person that I am.
Sarah Waddington:
It's a good lesson for us all.
Let's talk a little bit about Les Mills International. You've got a clear mission and that's to create a fitter planet. I love it. I'm totally bought in. I do body pump, body combat I do body balance. If I can get booked in, I can never get booked into that one. So, you know, I'm won over! But talk to me about this company purpose and your vision and mission and how it came about.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, I mean our business is extremely purpose-led. I often say that it's the most purpose-led business I've ever been a part of. And I've worked in some amazing businesses in different parts of the world. I've spent eight years at Nike in Europe and that's a business that has a very strong purpose too. But what I have found with us at Les Mills is that it very much shapes everything that we do. So creating a fitter planet is about healthy people. It's about getting humans moving and it's about healthy planet, which is around - for us, having a position, taking a stand against climate change and doing our part to make sure we can help combat that. And that's about planting trees. So creating a fitter planet gives us a very clear steer as a business of how do we get more humans moving and how do we make sure that the world that they live in is as healthy and as strong as possible?
And that then feeds into our product and how we talk about it and how we best serve customers. So it gives us a very clear guide as to the impact we want to make in people's lives. And we have a really passionate focus group of teammates all around the world that are lined up behind that. And we then have very different ways in how that can come to life and different customer groups that we are engaging with on a daily basis. But it does help make sure that the business is clear about the outcome and impact it wants to have in the world.
Sarah Waddington:
And you work really hard on this, but you can see it filter through, it's quite incredible the culture that you have bearing in mind the disparate geographies that you work within. Like you say, all those different groups of people around the world all focused on one thing. And I guess that helps recruitment as well because you kind of pre-qualify people come to Les Mills because they know what you stand for and they wanna be involved and it speaks to them, right?
Clive Ormerod:
I would hope so. I think there's always more we can do. We, we, we've got a high bar in terms of the brand and company that we would like to be. And while we are making great headway and I think we've really helped positively impact a lot of people's lives all around the world, that then shows up inside out. So it reflects who we want to be to our teammates and it also reflects very much how we wanna show up for customers. So I think our employee brand reflects our mission too, of creating a fitter planet. And you can see and feel that with our teammates all around the world, 650 people and thousands of trainers and instructors that are a part of more than just a company, it's a movement that is wanting to positively impact people's lives.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah. So let's talk about that and the backstory. It's got a great backstory, this company. Now, if I've got this right, four time Olympian Les Mills started a gym in Auckland for a small community of athletes and then his son with his wife Jackie, developed Body Pump, which I love as I've mentioned before, from early aerobic programmes. And then I believe they took this and are after brother classes to the world. Yes. If that's right. How involved are the family today and do you see their involvement as fundamental to the company's success?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, that that, that, that story's right. You know, we've been around now for over 50 years and Philip and Jackie founded Les Mills International and you're correct. We've been selling our workouts choreographed to music all around the world now for many, many years. And the family being Philip and Jackie are still actively involved and are involved day-to-day.
Philip is our executive director, Jackie's our chief creative officer, and they're absolutely fundamental to the future of this business. If you think about creating a fitter planet, Philip and Jackie best reflect that and having the founders still involved provides I think an environment and a platform that ensures that purpose stays front and centre. Absolutely. We want to be a business that is changing people's lives on scale and profitable so that we can reinvest in doing that better and bigger than before, but ensuring that our purpose stays at the front of what we do is absolutely made easier by having the founders a core part of that story.
Sarah Waddington:
How does the business model work then? Bearing in mind that you work across so many geographies.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, our business model is quite simple, really is we are a business that creates content. That content is group training workouts that are choreographed to music and then sold around the world. And we have three specific customers that we are looking to enable. One is clubs and gyms. And that's about getting those workouts into their facilities or into their apps and serving their members digitally.
The second one is to instructors. Those are instructors, 130,000 of them that are learning and teaching Les Mills classes.
And then it's direct to consumer. We have an app based direct to consumer business called Les Mills Plus. And that allows us to also serve our group fitness workouts choreographed to music direct to the end consumer. And they come together in a really interesting ecosystem where ultimately it's about how can we have more people working out more often to help achieve that purpose of creating a fitter planet and making sure that we are having a positive impact in people's lives.
Sarah Waddington:
So was direct to consumer, was that a new innovation with Covid?
I say that because I started to subscribe then and I got the bulk set. I bought that so I could do body pump at home - well I didn't, I got it as a birthday present.
Was that new then? Or was it something you were doing before and you saw subscribers at scale? What, what happened?
Clive Ormerod:
Covid created a moment obviously where customer needs shifted dramatically and, and some of it was within our control and, and a lot wasn't. However, our direct to consumer business, Les Mills Plus has been around for many years before that. I think we're now into about our eighth year of building that business. Covid has definitely helped us reach more people on scale, but I think what that moment also helped us provide was to work closer with club partners and also instructors around the world and show the power and value of digital and how taking a workout outside of the four walls of a club into customer's lives, wherever they would like to work out, really was an untapped opportunity. So to answer your question, no Les Mills Plus has been around before Covid, yes, COVID definitely helped us accelerate that business's growth and reach more people. But I think most importantly, the action, the outcome we've had and now see is that it's helped us work closer with club partners and instructors to use digital to reach more people.
Sarah Waddington:
No, it's fantastic. And like I say, I've been on holiday and I've done body combat in the garden, in the heat. It's…
Clive Ormerod:
Everywhere. Yeah. We do the same.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah. It's just, it's fantastic. Yeah, no it's, and it is liberating to be able to do that and it seems crazy when you think about it that it wasn't available before and fantastic that it is now.
I spotted when I was doing my research, this statement on the LinkedIn page and I love it and it says, ‘we are in the business of strength and allowing teammates to play to theirs. Diversity, equity and inclusion and a mindset and a culture, a healthy work-life balance and essential and encouragement to exercise your passion fundamental’. What does this mean in practice? How do you live that every day?
Clive Ormerod:
I think at the core of that, it's about helping people be at their best. So it's about creating an environment where people can realise their potential and we want to be a business, we want to be a company, a team of people that ultimately can encourage people from all parts of the world, all walks of life to be their best with us and to help unlock their potential and ensure that they can achieve some of the big dreams and aspirations that we all have.
So I think that's at the core of that statement, but really if you drill down to what's in the centre, it's about helping people be at their best and creating an environment that allows people to achieve that.
Sarah Waddington:
What would you say the biggest challenge is and opportunities then facing the wellbeing and fitness industries right now? Is it lack of interest from the general public or are you seeing interest increase? Is it, is it the economic climate? What are the issues that you are seeing that we might not be aware of.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, I mean issues and opportunities to, to use your words, I would suggest that there are far more opportunities than issues. We as a category or as an industry. The, the fitness, health and and wellbeing industry has far more opportunities than challenges in front of it, I believe. And I think as a business operator, we are doing all we can to realise those. And that means our business needs to change. That means we need to continue to evolve with customer needs.
I think the challenges within that is ‘how do we best serve customers? How do we work or change to customers' needs and make sure that we have the products, the services, the experiences that customers want to be a part of and want to experience with us’. So plenty more opportunities than there are challenges out there. Yes, there's economic headwinds right now and they will be around for a while and that puts pressure into the system and it means people need to choose where and how they spend and consume their lives.
And then at the same time we have a role to play to help get more people into fitness working out because we know that that helps serve and create better humans. And I think the biggest challenge within that is about choosing where we play and how we best invest to enable that outcome. And that is ultimately about a choice that is about doing it better than our competition that is ultimately about growing the category. So we are really excited about the future. That said, we know that the next 12 months are going to continue to be tough and we believe we have a business that will continue to evolve. We've been around for over 50 years, like I suggested earlier, and therefore we know how to evolve, we know how to deal with challenging times. And at the core of that it's about making sure our business is up for change and is making sure that we show up in the best possible way to help positively impact customers and their lives.
Sarah Waddington:
So where and what next? I mean like you say, you don't rest on your laurels, you've done 50 years, you know how to sustain yourselves in times of challenge, you can see the opportunity. Is it diversification? Is it moving more into music? Is it selling more… I just see all of my instructors are always kitted head to toe and Les Mills tops. Dunno where you get your hands on those. But you know, is it, is it clothing? What, what's next?
Clive Ormerod:
To answer your question, it's about focus. You know, I think in moments where there are gonna be more challenging times over the next 12 months, it is about being more focused and more disciplined in doing what we believe will help us and our customers be successful. So in the, in the near term, over the next couple of years, the big ambitions for us are to get millions of people working out with us every single week. We've set ourselves a target of 9 million people working out with us weekly. And alongside that, we really want to grow our business into being a customer facing brand that is a top 10 player in the fitness industry. And that's important because we know that then helps drive customers into clubs. We know that that helps provide an environment for instructors to be their best. So where next? It's about getting more people moving and it's about continuing to grow our business and our brand so that we can positively impact more people's lives.
And within that it's focus. Yes, absolutely. You touched on music, you touched on product apparel and we've recently just signed a new partnership with adidas.
Sarah Waddington:
I love this. I saw this.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, yeah. Recently that's just in the last couple of weeks we've announced it and global brand partnership with Adidas and Les Mills is ultimately to get more people moving. It's to get more people training - specifically with Gen Z. We know that this is the fastest growing membership group joining clubs all around the world right now. And with Adidas that helps us really drive authentically into that Gen Z audience group and drive more people into clubs and also tap into an audience group that wants to be healthier, be fitter, live more fulfilling lives. So Adidas helps us achieve that. However, as a business on our own two feet, that's also what we are passionately committed to doing in the next few years, is helping more people, millions of people work out and move every single day.
Sarah Waddington:
Congratulations on that partnership because the reach between both organisations will be huge and I I'm, I have no doubt that that will be hugely successful. And I was excited when I saw it.
It feels like post pandemic. And you, you mentioned the political and economic turbulence in a variety of countries. It feels like keeping well physically and mentally is more important than ever. So you talk about helping people get fit. What advice would you give to our listeners, perhaps those who are a little bit more sedentary right now or wondering where to start?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, the best workout is the one that you've done. And for me it's about a choice. It's about making a choice, a purposeful, intentional choice that when you are moving in any way, you're gonna be a healthier human. And what I've personally experienced over the last few years, having lived like everyone else around the world has through really unsettling and changing times is that you have more clarity of thought, definitely a more stable emotional approach to life, if you're working out. That might be going out for a walk, that might be just being active with your kids, that might be doing a Les Mills body pump workout. But it's about doing it. And I think at the core of it, that's what I would encourage people to do. I personally know that I'm a better human when I have worked out in the morning, I'm at my best when it's early in the morning.
I've been for a run that allows me to show up better and definitely have more positive and more positive impact on the people around me. So my advice would be is to, to choose to be more active and then work out how you can create habit and bring that as an important part of how you live your life. And that's what we at Les Mills are looking to try and do is give more people more reasons to motivate and inspire people to work out and to move. And if we can get more people doing that than collectively, I think as humans around the world, we are gonna be more successful in our endeavours in what we are trying to achieve.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah, no, it's great and you provide plenty of choice. You know, there are different classes that suit different people depending on what floats your boat. And I completely agree. I went out for run this morning - I've just signed up to a half marathon to do some charity fundraising and, do you know what happens when I run specifically - it's interesting compared to classes. I love doing classes because I have to focus on what the instructor's telling me to do. And I love that because I don't think about anything else for the whole time I'm in the gym. But with a run I find it really interesting because it unlocks my head and I actually end up writing blogs when I'm running it. I, I often, I'm able to run and, and type and I did one today and it's just it's bizarre but it does set you up for the day. I, I wholly agree and it does, would urge people to get going.
Clive Ormerod:
It really does. I mean, running for me is exactly as you describe it. It is absolutely my mindfulness, it helps me clear my head and I definitely compliment my training programme through a week with running and also Les Mills classes and, and like you said, there's a class for everyone. If you want to do body balance to stretch, if you want to do a HIT workout, you can do grit. If you want to do body pump, you can, we've got more programmes launching that help us target Gen Z. You know, there really is a workout for everyone. However, you also need to make sure that you're clear on what you need as an individual to be at your best and then wrap your workout programme or approach around that to make sure that you can turn it into a habit. I think that the thing I'd really encourage the people is do what you can in a way where it can become a meaningful part of your life.
Sarah Waddington:
Absolutely. It's got to be sustainable
Almost up to time. So, two quick questions. Who do you look to for advice when unique guidance or inspiration and are mentors important to you?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, mentors have been important to me all through my life. I don't have one person that I go to. There would be a group of people that I would actively lean on inside and outside of work. My wife is extremely important and, and would give me the most support and would be the person that I would chat to the most. Who do I learn from? Where do I help get stability? Very much at home like I've described, but also from the team. You know, we have an awesome team and we have very different thinking on that team and that really helps you bring perspective. So I'm actively trying to learn, I'm listening to podcasts, I'm reading books or articles, so I'm continuously trying to steepen my learning curve. And then it's also about being grounded and having the right people around you. And I've found over the years, it's not one individual. It's always a collective of people and to lean on those people and most importantly to be comfortable to ask for help.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah, that's a big one, isn't it? It's so difficult. It took me years to move out of my comfort zone and do that and also be prepared to hear when people weren't able to do it and not take that personally. Because sometimes, you know, others have busy lives and it's not that they don't wanna help. Most people do. It's that sometimes it's just not right for them at that given moment. And you know, you've got to be able to take that on the chin, I think.
What's the one thing then to finish up that you believe leads to better business outcomes?
Clive Ormerod:
The one thing I would suggest is belief. It's the belief and ambition that anything is possible. And then it's about working extremely hard to make sure that you bring that to life. But if you start with belief and you think anything is possible, I found over my life that I more often than not can get very close. So set the bar high, aim big, and then work as hard as you can alongside an amazing team of people to bring that to life.
And yes, there's gonna be setbacks and challenges along the way, but with that belief and with the right mindset, I've found that we've been able to achieve some really exciting thingfs. And I'm certain that that will continue to be the results and the outcomes that I'll be able to achieve because of that. You know, I I quite often get described as being a radical optimist that has served me well, <laugh> I'll continue to, I will continue to try and show up in the best possible way to achieve that. But it starts with belief and the ambition that you can achieve wonderful things in this world.
Sarah Waddington:
"Be A radical optimist."
Well that's the perfect wrap, today's Better Business Outcomes podcast. Huge thanks Clive for giving it your time today and sharing your experiences as the CEO of one of the biggest global fitness success stories. I honestly, I can't tell you how thrilled I am to be able to welcome you on the podcast.
And for our listeners, please don't forget to subscribe for free wherever you usually find your podcasts. And if you enjoy what you're here, please also leave us a review and we'll see you next time.
Welcome to Better Business Outcomes, where we discuss how good communication can transform and grow organisations with a series of global leaders who have set the standard for what great looks like.
I'm Sarah Waddington from Wadds Inc, and I've been working in PR for more than 20 years. And in this podcast you'll hear from leaders and senior communicators about their leadership journey and how they create social impact. You'll also understand the areas you should be focusing on to build personal and organisational resilience. Find out how public relations can unlock value for your business and enjoy a great listen along the way. Well, today I have the pleasure of welcoming Clive Ormerod, who's the CEO of Les Mills International.
Welcome to the show, Clive.
Clive Ormerod:
Thank you very much, Sarah. Thanks for having me.
Sarah Waddington:
Oh, it's great to have you. And I really appreciate you making time. I know that it's been a little bit rainy and you've had the cyclone recently in, in Auckland, so doubly grateful for you being here.
Better Business outcomes is all about good leadership. Now you head up a global brand operating in 105 countries. Can you tell me about your leadership journey and where it started?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, I'll do my best. I mean, that's a really open-ended question. I think my leadership journey is ultimately probably best characterised through, through these words, which is ‘always learning, always growing, and trying to get out of my comfort zone’. And you know, I think that really filter gives a good intent on how I would like to try and show up and the impact that I'd like to have on other people. I think specifically I was probably thrown into a situation when I was younger that really helped me understand the impact that I can have on others and the role that I can play in helping people get to better outcomes. And when I was 15, my dad passed away and that was a real moment in my life personally where the role I played in the family shifted quite intentionally and overnight. And I think from that moment forward, I've really had the opportunity to continue to try and make the biggest impact I can on others and in teams.
And I know that I'm always learning. I know that there is never a perfect outcome, but I'm hungry to make sure that I stay out of my comfort zone. And I think with that, my ability to lead others and play an active role in teams continues to improve. So yeah, I think in a nutshell those three filters that steer how I want to show up and then there's been really impactful and meaningful moments in my life that have helped me continue to try and hone those skills and just become a better human.
Sarah Waddington:
I love that. And I'm so sorry to hear about your father, but I love to hear you talk about the impact that he is had on the person that you are and how you do business. Sadly my two boys who are 11 and 12 have just lost their father suddenly in December.
But it's lovely to see again like you how they are responding to that and the little one particularly he's using his sport and wanting to be on the football team to kind of manage and kind of yeah, work through some of that grief. But he remembers all the time there was his dad used to say in terms of how you treat other people in terms of if you wanna be a leader and you wanna get on the team and you wanna lead that team totally. You know, you've gotta, you've gotta lead with respect and empathy and you know, it does, it does make a difference to who you are in your character - certainly such a fundamental thing. And you were young at that age.
Clive Ormerod:
Similar age and, and I think it's, it's leadership very much is defined by not necessarily the cards that you get dealt, but importantly what you choose to do with them and how you choose to respond. And from my perspective, I think that's very much how I try and approach my life and the day-to-day and therefore the person that I am.
Sarah Waddington:
It's a good lesson for us all.
Let's talk a little bit about Les Mills International. You've got a clear mission and that's to create a fitter planet. I love it. I'm totally bought in. I do body pump, body combat I do body balance. If I can get booked in, I can never get booked into that one. So, you know, I'm won over! But talk to me about this company purpose and your vision and mission and how it came about.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, I mean our business is extremely purpose-led. I often say that it's the most purpose-led business I've ever been a part of. And I've worked in some amazing businesses in different parts of the world. I've spent eight years at Nike in Europe and that's a business that has a very strong purpose too. But what I have found with us at Les Mills is that it very much shapes everything that we do. So creating a fitter planet is about healthy people. It's about getting humans moving and it's about healthy planet, which is around - for us, having a position, taking a stand against climate change and doing our part to make sure we can help combat that. And that's about planting trees. So creating a fitter planet gives us a very clear steer as a business of how do we get more humans moving and how do we make sure that the world that they live in is as healthy and as strong as possible?
And that then feeds into our product and how we talk about it and how we best serve customers. So it gives us a very clear guide as to the impact we want to make in people's lives. And we have a really passionate focus group of teammates all around the world that are lined up behind that. And we then have very different ways in how that can come to life and different customer groups that we are engaging with on a daily basis. But it does help make sure that the business is clear about the outcome and impact it wants to have in the world.
Sarah Waddington:
And you work really hard on this, but you can see it filter through, it's quite incredible the culture that you have bearing in mind the disparate geographies that you work within. Like you say, all those different groups of people around the world all focused on one thing. And I guess that helps recruitment as well because you kind of pre-qualify people come to Les Mills because they know what you stand for and they wanna be involved and it speaks to them, right?
Clive Ormerod:
I would hope so. I think there's always more we can do. We, we, we've got a high bar in terms of the brand and company that we would like to be. And while we are making great headway and I think we've really helped positively impact a lot of people's lives all around the world, that then shows up inside out. So it reflects who we want to be to our teammates and it also reflects very much how we wanna show up for customers. So I think our employee brand reflects our mission too, of creating a fitter planet. And you can see and feel that with our teammates all around the world, 650 people and thousands of trainers and instructors that are a part of more than just a company, it's a movement that is wanting to positively impact people's lives.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah. So let's talk about that and the backstory. It's got a great backstory, this company. Now, if I've got this right, four time Olympian Les Mills started a gym in Auckland for a small community of athletes and then his son with his wife Jackie, developed Body Pump, which I love as I've mentioned before, from early aerobic programmes. And then I believe they took this and are after brother classes to the world. Yes. If that's right. How involved are the family today and do you see their involvement as fundamental to the company's success?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, that that, that, that story's right. You know, we've been around now for over 50 years and Philip and Jackie founded Les Mills International and you're correct. We've been selling our workouts choreographed to music all around the world now for many, many years. And the family being Philip and Jackie are still actively involved and are involved day-to-day.
Philip is our executive director, Jackie's our chief creative officer, and they're absolutely fundamental to the future of this business. If you think about creating a fitter planet, Philip and Jackie best reflect that and having the founders still involved provides I think an environment and a platform that ensures that purpose stays front and centre. Absolutely. We want to be a business that is changing people's lives on scale and profitable so that we can reinvest in doing that better and bigger than before, but ensuring that our purpose stays at the front of what we do is absolutely made easier by having the founders a core part of that story.
Sarah Waddington:
How does the business model work then? Bearing in mind that you work across so many geographies.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, our business model is quite simple, really is we are a business that creates content. That content is group training workouts that are choreographed to music and then sold around the world. And we have three specific customers that we are looking to enable. One is clubs and gyms. And that's about getting those workouts into their facilities or into their apps and serving their members digitally.
The second one is to instructors. Those are instructors, 130,000 of them that are learning and teaching Les Mills classes.
And then it's direct to consumer. We have an app based direct to consumer business called Les Mills Plus. And that allows us to also serve our group fitness workouts choreographed to music direct to the end consumer. And they come together in a really interesting ecosystem where ultimately it's about how can we have more people working out more often to help achieve that purpose of creating a fitter planet and making sure that we are having a positive impact in people's lives.
Sarah Waddington:
So was direct to consumer, was that a new innovation with Covid?
I say that because I started to subscribe then and I got the bulk set. I bought that so I could do body pump at home - well I didn't, I got it as a birthday present.
Was that new then? Or was it something you were doing before and you saw subscribers at scale? What, what happened?
Clive Ormerod:
Covid created a moment obviously where customer needs shifted dramatically and, and some of it was within our control and, and a lot wasn't. However, our direct to consumer business, Les Mills Plus has been around for many years before that. I think we're now into about our eighth year of building that business. Covid has definitely helped us reach more people on scale, but I think what that moment also helped us provide was to work closer with club partners and also instructors around the world and show the power and value of digital and how taking a workout outside of the four walls of a club into customer's lives, wherever they would like to work out, really was an untapped opportunity. So to answer your question, no Les Mills Plus has been around before Covid, yes, COVID definitely helped us accelerate that business's growth and reach more people. But I think most importantly, the action, the outcome we've had and now see is that it's helped us work closer with club partners and instructors to use digital to reach more people.
Sarah Waddington:
No, it's fantastic. And like I say, I've been on holiday and I've done body combat in the garden, in the heat. It's…
Clive Ormerod:
Everywhere. Yeah. We do the same.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah. It's just, it's fantastic. Yeah, no it's, and it is liberating to be able to do that and it seems crazy when you think about it that it wasn't available before and fantastic that it is now.
I spotted when I was doing my research, this statement on the LinkedIn page and I love it and it says, ‘we are in the business of strength and allowing teammates to play to theirs. Diversity, equity and inclusion and a mindset and a culture, a healthy work-life balance and essential and encouragement to exercise your passion fundamental’. What does this mean in practice? How do you live that every day?
Clive Ormerod:
I think at the core of that, it's about helping people be at their best. So it's about creating an environment where people can realise their potential and we want to be a business, we want to be a company, a team of people that ultimately can encourage people from all parts of the world, all walks of life to be their best with us and to help unlock their potential and ensure that they can achieve some of the big dreams and aspirations that we all have.
So I think that's at the core of that statement, but really if you drill down to what's in the centre, it's about helping people be at their best and creating an environment that allows people to achieve that.
Sarah Waddington:
What would you say the biggest challenge is and opportunities then facing the wellbeing and fitness industries right now? Is it lack of interest from the general public or are you seeing interest increase? Is it, is it the economic climate? What are the issues that you are seeing that we might not be aware of.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, I mean issues and opportunities to, to use your words, I would suggest that there are far more opportunities than issues. We as a category or as an industry. The, the fitness, health and and wellbeing industry has far more opportunities than challenges in front of it, I believe. And I think as a business operator, we are doing all we can to realise those. And that means our business needs to change. That means we need to continue to evolve with customer needs.
I think the challenges within that is ‘how do we best serve customers? How do we work or change to customers' needs and make sure that we have the products, the services, the experiences that customers want to be a part of and want to experience with us’. So plenty more opportunities than there are challenges out there. Yes, there's economic headwinds right now and they will be around for a while and that puts pressure into the system and it means people need to choose where and how they spend and consume their lives.
And then at the same time we have a role to play to help get more people into fitness working out because we know that that helps serve and create better humans. And I think the biggest challenge within that is about choosing where we play and how we best invest to enable that outcome. And that is ultimately about a choice that is about doing it better than our competition that is ultimately about growing the category. So we are really excited about the future. That said, we know that the next 12 months are going to continue to be tough and we believe we have a business that will continue to evolve. We've been around for over 50 years, like I suggested earlier, and therefore we know how to evolve, we know how to deal with challenging times. And at the core of that it's about making sure our business is up for change and is making sure that we show up in the best possible way to help positively impact customers and their lives.
Sarah Waddington:
So where and what next? I mean like you say, you don't rest on your laurels, you've done 50 years, you know how to sustain yourselves in times of challenge, you can see the opportunity. Is it diversification? Is it moving more into music? Is it selling more… I just see all of my instructors are always kitted head to toe and Les Mills tops. Dunno where you get your hands on those. But you know, is it, is it clothing? What, what's next?
Clive Ormerod:
To answer your question, it's about focus. You know, I think in moments where there are gonna be more challenging times over the next 12 months, it is about being more focused and more disciplined in doing what we believe will help us and our customers be successful. So in the, in the near term, over the next couple of years, the big ambitions for us are to get millions of people working out with us every single week. We've set ourselves a target of 9 million people working out with us weekly. And alongside that, we really want to grow our business into being a customer facing brand that is a top 10 player in the fitness industry. And that's important because we know that then helps drive customers into clubs. We know that that helps provide an environment for instructors to be their best. So where next? It's about getting more people moving and it's about continuing to grow our business and our brand so that we can positively impact more people's lives.
And within that it's focus. Yes, absolutely. You touched on music, you touched on product apparel and we've recently just signed a new partnership with adidas.
Sarah Waddington:
I love this. I saw this.
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, yeah. Recently that's just in the last couple of weeks we've announced it and global brand partnership with Adidas and Les Mills is ultimately to get more people moving. It's to get more people training - specifically with Gen Z. We know that this is the fastest growing membership group joining clubs all around the world right now. And with Adidas that helps us really drive authentically into that Gen Z audience group and drive more people into clubs and also tap into an audience group that wants to be healthier, be fitter, live more fulfilling lives. So Adidas helps us achieve that. However, as a business on our own two feet, that's also what we are passionately committed to doing in the next few years, is helping more people, millions of people work out and move every single day.
Sarah Waddington:
Congratulations on that partnership because the reach between both organisations will be huge and I I'm, I have no doubt that that will be hugely successful. And I was excited when I saw it.
It feels like post pandemic. And you, you mentioned the political and economic turbulence in a variety of countries. It feels like keeping well physically and mentally is more important than ever. So you talk about helping people get fit. What advice would you give to our listeners, perhaps those who are a little bit more sedentary right now or wondering where to start?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, the best workout is the one that you've done. And for me it's about a choice. It's about making a choice, a purposeful, intentional choice that when you are moving in any way, you're gonna be a healthier human. And what I've personally experienced over the last few years, having lived like everyone else around the world has through really unsettling and changing times is that you have more clarity of thought, definitely a more stable emotional approach to life, if you're working out. That might be going out for a walk, that might be just being active with your kids, that might be doing a Les Mills body pump workout. But it's about doing it. And I think at the core of it, that's what I would encourage people to do. I personally know that I'm a better human when I have worked out in the morning, I'm at my best when it's early in the morning.
I've been for a run that allows me to show up better and definitely have more positive and more positive impact on the people around me. So my advice would be is to, to choose to be more active and then work out how you can create habit and bring that as an important part of how you live your life. And that's what we at Les Mills are looking to try and do is give more people more reasons to motivate and inspire people to work out and to move. And if we can get more people doing that than collectively, I think as humans around the world, we are gonna be more successful in our endeavours in what we are trying to achieve.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah, no, it's great and you provide plenty of choice. You know, there are different classes that suit different people depending on what floats your boat. And I completely agree. I went out for run this morning - I've just signed up to a half marathon to do some charity fundraising and, do you know what happens when I run specifically - it's interesting compared to classes. I love doing classes because I have to focus on what the instructor's telling me to do. And I love that because I don't think about anything else for the whole time I'm in the gym. But with a run I find it really interesting because it unlocks my head and I actually end up writing blogs when I'm running it. I, I often, I'm able to run and, and type and I did one today and it's just it's bizarre but it does set you up for the day. I, I wholly agree and it does, would urge people to get going.
Clive Ormerod:
It really does. I mean, running for me is exactly as you describe it. It is absolutely my mindfulness, it helps me clear my head and I definitely compliment my training programme through a week with running and also Les Mills classes and, and like you said, there's a class for everyone. If you want to do body balance to stretch, if you want to do a HIT workout, you can do grit. If you want to do body pump, you can, we've got more programmes launching that help us target Gen Z. You know, there really is a workout for everyone. However, you also need to make sure that you're clear on what you need as an individual to be at your best and then wrap your workout programme or approach around that to make sure that you can turn it into a habit. I think that the thing I'd really encourage the people is do what you can in a way where it can become a meaningful part of your life.
Sarah Waddington:
Absolutely. It's got to be sustainable
Almost up to time. So, two quick questions. Who do you look to for advice when unique guidance or inspiration and are mentors important to you?
Clive Ormerod:
Yeah, mentors have been important to me all through my life. I don't have one person that I go to. There would be a group of people that I would actively lean on inside and outside of work. My wife is extremely important and, and would give me the most support and would be the person that I would chat to the most. Who do I learn from? Where do I help get stability? Very much at home like I've described, but also from the team. You know, we have an awesome team and we have very different thinking on that team and that really helps you bring perspective. So I'm actively trying to learn, I'm listening to podcasts, I'm reading books or articles, so I'm continuously trying to steepen my learning curve. And then it's also about being grounded and having the right people around you. And I've found over the years, it's not one individual. It's always a collective of people and to lean on those people and most importantly to be comfortable to ask for help.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah, that's a big one, isn't it? It's so difficult. It took me years to move out of my comfort zone and do that and also be prepared to hear when people weren't able to do it and not take that personally. Because sometimes, you know, others have busy lives and it's not that they don't wanna help. Most people do. It's that sometimes it's just not right for them at that given moment. And you know, you've got to be able to take that on the chin, I think.
What's the one thing then to finish up that you believe leads to better business outcomes?
Clive Ormerod:
The one thing I would suggest is belief. It's the belief and ambition that anything is possible. And then it's about working extremely hard to make sure that you bring that to life. But if you start with belief and you think anything is possible, I found over my life that I more often than not can get very close. So set the bar high, aim big, and then work as hard as you can alongside an amazing team of people to bring that to life.
And yes, there's gonna be setbacks and challenges along the way, but with that belief and with the right mindset, I've found that we've been able to achieve some really exciting thingfs. And I'm certain that that will continue to be the results and the outcomes that I'll be able to achieve because of that. You know, I I quite often get described as being a radical optimist that has served me well, <laugh> I'll continue to, I will continue to try and show up in the best possible way to achieve that. But it starts with belief and the ambition that you can achieve wonderful things in this world.
Sarah Waddington:
"Be A radical optimist."
Well that's the perfect wrap, today's Better Business Outcomes podcast. Huge thanks Clive for giving it your time today and sharing your experiences as the CEO of one of the biggest global fitness success stories. I honestly, I can't tell you how thrilled I am to be able to welcome you on the podcast.
And for our listeners, please don't forget to subscribe for free wherever you usually find your podcasts. And if you enjoy what you're here, please also leave us a review and we'll see you next time.
