WEBVTT
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Welcome to the Veterinary Culture Lab, where science meets real-world application.
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I'm Andy Davison.
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And I'm Josh Weisman.
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Together, we'll show you an evidence-based blueprint for renovating culture in your veterinary team.
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One episode at a time.
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Just because your veterinary team is getting the work done doesn't mean they're working well together.
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What happens when an us versus them mentality creeps into your culture?
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Well, today we're taking inspiration from Ted Lasso himself and digging into the science of cohesion, performance, and what it takes to become a team.
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I'm tired and excited and sad and overwhelmed and optimistic and all of those things at once.
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I'm gonna give you one guess as to why I might be feeling all of those things lately.
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Um, let's see, it starts with a sta and ends with an Ella.
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Yeah, nailed it.
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Nailed it.
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We we adopted a puppy.
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Um then I got a uh a little six-month-old little girl.
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Her name is Stella, Stella Bobella, um, from Soul Dog Rescue.
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We adopted her, let's see here, it's almost three weeks ago, and she's a sweetheart.
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She's also like a demon spawn on wheels.
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Um, it's great.
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It's really great.
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I really do love her.
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But I I gotta tell you, it's it's got it's got me thinking about a lot of things.
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Like it's got me thinking about the relationship that we had with Addy, the dog that we lost earlier this year.
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Um, it's got me thinking about just relationships with dogs in general, like what they're like and how they're different, and how each dog brings its own kind of unique personality.
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Um, how dogs are kind of doggy, but different dogs are different, you know, like that kind of stuff.
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And it's also really got me think.
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Oh, go ahead, please.
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Oh, I was just gonna say that reminds me of something that I came across um the other day that seems very fitting here, and I find it to be true.
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We don't we don't get the dog that we want, we get the dog that we need.
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Well, I'm hoping it turns out that way.
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Yeah, yeah, that they come to teach us the thing that we need to learn, and that that always stands out to me because you're right, right?
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Like all of our all of our dogs are different and they show up in different ways, and they they're just they're all amazing, awesome, lovable, perfect little snugs of love, but they're all just a little bit different in what they do for us.
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And that's always so evident when you have a shift in, you know, the the the family, right?
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And when you get in a new, a new pupper, you're like, oh wow.
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Totally.
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No, I I think I think that I think you're spot on.
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And um it'll be interesting to see how that plays out with Stella.
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You know, we're still we're still in that like feeling each other out phase.
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What is it?
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The rule they say it's um 333.
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There's like the first three days, certain stuff happens, then three weeks, then three months, right?
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Like we haven't even hit the three-week mark yet.
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So, but she is her personality's coming out for sure.
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And I I am finding her delightful, and I'm definitely falling in love with this dog.
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But it's also got me thinking about names.
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Like Andy, you know, we have a thread in our Slack about you know all the goofy names that we have for people.
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Can you share one of the names for one of your dogs or one of your horses?
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One of the goofy, like nicknamey things.
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Oh, the latest, the latest one is for Marshall.
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And as you know, like World Cup, right?
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Like everybody got excited about World Cup, me included.
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Like I went super nerdy nutso and like got on the World Cup bandwagon.
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I've never watched soccer in my life, but now I'm like number one fan and I know them all, right?
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And there was a player, I believe, on the Egypt team that's name is Omar Marmoush.
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That's oh yeah, Marmoush.
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Yep.
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Yeah, Marmoush, right?
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Well, that very quickly became one of Marshall's nicknames because Marshall became Marmar for a whole nother story that we don't have time for.
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And then it turned into Omarmoush.
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So Omar Marmoush is now a new nickname.
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I love it.
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That's genius.
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Yes.
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Um, I've been thinking a lot about names now that we have this new puppy, right?
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We did decide to name her Stella, but I'm starting to actually rethink it now because I'm finding Stella is a little bit hard to come up with goofy nicknames like that, right?
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So you know Rue.
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We have our boy Rue, and Rue is like Mr.
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Protector, you know, every sound out, especially like the sound of like the UPS truck brakes, and he goes nuts.
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And of course, this little six-month-old puppy is like, you know, watching the big boy in the house and starting to learn, right?
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So now we've we've got these like two dogs that are, you know, Huffle Puffle whenever there's a potential perceived threat somewhere in the vicinity of 70 miles.
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So I'm kind of thinking of switching their names to Rolex and Swatch.
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Because they're gonna be watchdogs.
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Which would be which?
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Who would be who?
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That's a good point.
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Um, I mean, I feel like Rue is very swatchy.
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There you go.
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And and Stella's a little princess, so yeah, she's gonna have to be the Rolex.
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She's a princess.
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Her Majesty Stella needs to be Rolex.
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Stella's the Rolex, yes.
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I love it.
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Enough about me.
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We should probably get to the task at hand.
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Oh, come on.
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We have a veterinary audience.
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I feel like we could talk about puppies for an hour, and that would be completely acceptable.
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You're probably there's something else that we could talk about, though, that I think would be completely acceptable.
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Which is the new the new Ted Lasso season.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Right?
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I am so happy that the show is back.
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What what are you up to date?
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What do you think of the new the new spin?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Greta and I um have watched all four episodes of season four, and we are up to date.
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And I okay, so I I was a little bit worried.
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Like I was excited when they said it was coming back, but I was also worried like how do you recapture the magic?
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They ended it so perfectly, right?
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So I was a little bit worried.
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And then episode one, Greta and I were both a tiny bit skeptical after episode one, but we're all in now.
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Like we're hooked.
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This latest episode was phenomenal.
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Mike and I watched it just the other day.
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And when, you know, when it was over, I turned to him and I was like, okay, we're this is good.
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We're in.
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I'm in.
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This is it.
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And it's this latest episode that I want to talk about today.
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So, quick warning for everybody listening: there are going to be some minor spoilers.
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So if you have not watched episode four yet and you're a Ted Lasso fan, just pause us here, go and watch it.
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We will wait.
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Okay.
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So in this latest episode, the Lady Greyhounds are doing really, really well, right?
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They're doing awesome on the pitch.
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They are technically undefeated and they're getting the results.
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But Josh, you'll remember the coaches, right?
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They start to notice that something isn't quite right.
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You've got the attackers hanging out with the attackers, the midfielders are all huddled together during their water break, and the defenders are hanging out with one another exclusively in the locker room.
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They're celebrating with their own groups.
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Or as Alice and Beard explained to Ted, cliques.
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They're all technically Richmond, but there's this pretty obvious us versus them thing happening inside of the team.
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Ted sees it, he feels it, and he sure as heck notices it.
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And here's one thing that I'm curious about, Josh.
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When you think back on that episode, what do you think Ted was seeing that concerned him?
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I mean, in every obvious measure, his team was succeeding.
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Yeah, it's a great question.
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I mean, you're right.
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Like in the table, they were 2-0 and 2.
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So they were undefeated.
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They were doing pretty well.
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But when he watched them interact in the locker room and on the pitch, especially off to the side, yeah, he could see something that was very concerning to him.
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They were fractured.
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It wasn't a team, it was subgroups who managed to, you know, minimally function together as a team during matches, but they weren't really a team.
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But Ted, being Ted, does not do that.
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He instead decides that these women they need something different.
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And because this is Ted Lasso, that naturally means canceled practice and pub trivia, which apparently is a really big deal over in the UK.
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Yeah, which you might discover soon since you're going to the UK soon.
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I'm excited.
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Hopefully you get, yeah, I hope you get to do some pub trivia.
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Me personally, I would have taken them bowling, but that's just me.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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I think it would have accomplished a similar goal.
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I hope so.
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So off they go to pub trivia, where chaos ensues, and the episode delivers in a way only Ted Lasso can.
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Trivia, a bar fight, and an ending that I won't totally give away.
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But seriously, everybody, go and watch it.
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It's really good.
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Now, underneath all of that ridiculousness, something really, really interesting happens.
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Those little groups, those clicks, they start to break down.
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People who weren't really interacting with one another before are interacting.
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They're learning things about each other.
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They're solving problems together.
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And granted, they're also fighting other people together.
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But by the end of it, something feels different.
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They feel a little less like the attackers, the midfielders, the defenders who happen to wear the same uniform and a little more like AFC Richmond.
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And holy crap, Josh, this makes me think about vetmed.
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I mean, come on, all the time we see teams that are getting the work done.
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The appointments are getting seen.
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Everybody made it through surgery.
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The hospitalized patients are getting their treatments on time.
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Clients get called back.
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And somehow everybody manages to leave on time that day.
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So we think we're good.
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Meanwhile, the CSRs, they're pissed at the technicians.
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The technicians think the doctors have no idea with what they're dealing with today.
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The doctors are frustrated with everybody.
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And surgery and outpatient, they haven't spoken since 2023.
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Or 1983.
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Right.
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Right.
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Seriously.
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So, Josh, the team, though, they're getting the work done.
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And when you think about teams that you and I have worked with, what do you think separates a team that's genuinely functioning well from one that's just really good at getting the work done?
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Yeah.
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Um so I'm I'm gonna pump myself up a little bit here.
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Uh to me, and this is this is really about what what we think of in the four, the four P's of positive leadership is partnership.
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I I think it's it's a sense of connection and community that's missing.
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Uh that they're they are interdependent, but they don't feel interdependent.
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And if that feeling is missing, then you get fracturing.
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And yeah, people will get things done, but they're not really getting things done to, you know, the the fullest capabilities, and they're certainly not finding full fulfillment in what they do.
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Yeah.
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That it has more to it has more to do with that partnership, that connection that you create with one another than the simple act of accomplishing the thing.
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Oh, yeah, totally, totally.
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Yeah.
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You know, I think about like um, okay, so a sports metaphor here or sports analogy, I should say.
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I mean, that's where we are with this.
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So yeah.
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That's where we are, right?
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So a different kind of football, American football.
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Um, gosh, I don't remember when when exactly this was, but when Dan Snyder took over ownership of the um, at the time they were called the Washington Redskins, they're now the commanders.
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Uh, when he took over ownership of the commanders, uh, he spent a ton of money on getting like the best possible players he could, and he accumulated this incredible talent, but they failed as a team.
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They they performed actually quite poorly compared to other teams in the league, in large part because there wasn't any sense of team.
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Team is like a it's a special kind of connection between human beings where we have each other's back and we have each other's best interests in mind.
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And, you know, we're we're sort of fighting the good fight for the person to our right and the person to our left, not just for ourselves or not just for, you know, the five o'clock bell when we can go home.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And that's a beautiful sort of illustration of that distinction that sort of keeps coming back to me because getting the work done and working well together are definitely not the same thing.
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And then there's another layer to this that I find really interesting.
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When a team does start to come together, when people trust each other more, feel like they're actually in it together and start thinking more like we instead of us versus them, does that happen because they've had some success together?
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Or does being that kind of team actually help them become more successful?
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And that's kind of what I want to dig into today.
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What's the relationship between how well a team works together and how well they actually perform?
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And more importantly for us, what in the hell are we supposed to do with that in veterinary medicine?
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Now, the question that we just asked Does being a more connected team help you perform better?
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Or does performing well help you become more of a connected team?
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Is pretty much exactly what the researchers behind this paper wanted to figure out.
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And I feel like the obvious answer is both.
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I mean, right?
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Both.
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Okay.
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End the podcast.
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Thanks for listening, everybody.
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Have a good day.
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We're not letting you off the hook that easy.
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No, it's camp, it can't be that easy.
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It can't be that easy.
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And it's not.
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But it is, but it's not.
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Now, the paper that we're gonna dig into today is called modeling reciprocal team cohesion performance relationships as impacted by shared leadership and members' competence.
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And that was written by John Matthew, Michael Kuchenberger, Lauren, Dino Senzo.
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There, that comes with an accent, said poorly, and Greg Riley.
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Whew! Okay, that rolls right off the tongue, right?
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Now, what I like about this paper is that they didn't just ask whether cohesion and performance were related.
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We already have plenty of research telling us that they are.
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What they wanted to know was how this relationship unfolds over time.
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Does cohesion today predict how well teams perform later?
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Does performing well today make the team more cohesive later?
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And does that relationship change as the team spends more time together?
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Now, before we go any further, when we say team cohesion, we're not just talking about everybody being work besties.
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This isn't a do you want to celebrate Taco Tuesday together after work today?
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This is that sense of closeness, that belonging, but also being connected around the work that you're doing and the goals that you're trying to accomplish together, which brings us back to Richmond, right?
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The Lady Greyhounds, they can absolutely play soccer beside one another and they're clearly capable of getting results.
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But there is a difference between being able to play beside one another and functioning as a team.
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And that's what's super interesting for me.
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Okay, so really quick science.
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The researchers actually approached this a couple of different ways.
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First, they went back and pulled together previous studies that had looked at cohesion and performance across multiple points in time.
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And then they did their own longitudinal research where they could actually follow these teams over time.
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So it wasn't just, hey, do teams that like each other become more capable of performing better?
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They were looking at what happened with these teams over time.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.039
And here's the important part the answer is yes.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:58.240
And it's cool because it goes both ways that when teams become more cohesive, they become better performers.
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:04.640
And when teams perform better, that helped predict greater cohesion later.
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:13.920
So success seems to help bring people together, and being together helps to create more success.
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:15.039
Cool, right?
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:16.640
I think that's super cool.
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:17.279
Yeah.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.839
This is what you call a feedback loop.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.000
So you have a good shift together.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.880
Things click, people help each other.
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:26.640
You get through something hard.
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.480
And everybody walks out thinking, damn, we handled that really well.
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.559
And maybe I trust you a little bit more when I walk through the door tomorrow.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.640
So maybe tomorrow I ask for help sooner.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:43.119
Maybe I speak up when I notice something.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:47.839
Maybe we coordinate how we're going to handle this emergency a little bit better.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:51.680
And we perform a little bit better again.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:59.440
And now I've got more evidence that we as a team are actually really good together.
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:06.720
But the part I think is especially interesting is that the two sides of the loop, they weren't necessarily equal.
00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:14.000
In the researchers' longitudinal studies, cohesion was the stronger predictor of what happened next.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:20.000
And that its relationship with future performance actually got stronger over time.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.200
And that makes me think about Ted, right?
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:29.359
Looking at this undefeated team, going, yeah, I'm not convinced that we're good yet.
00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:41.440
Because the scoreboard can tell you the team has performed, but it doesn't necessarily tell you what they're building together and how it will affect how they perform next.
00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:50.400
And if I wasn't already jumping up and down here, there is one more finding that made me clap my hands, applaud, and scream out loud.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:56.160
Because Matthew and his colleagues also looked at shared leadership.
00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:05.440
Basically, leadership influence being distributed among members of the team instead of everything flowing through one designated leader.
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:10.559
And shared leadership was associated with greater cohesion.
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:15.039
Interestingly, it wasn't directly predicting better performance.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:20.720
Instead, the pathway that they found was, in my opinion, even better.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:43.680
Essentially, shared leadership helps build cohesion, and cohesion helps drive performance, which feels pretty relevant when we start thinking about veterinary teen, where sometimes we're still operating as though the person with the highest title or the most letters behind their name is supposed to be the source for every single answer, every single decision, and every bit of leadership.
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:50.559
So if we strip this paper down, here is the takeaway that I really want us to carry into this conversation.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.680
Success can help a team come together.
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.279
Connection can help a team become successful.
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:03.200
And over time, that cohesion matters more and more and more.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.680
Which means something that you and I can almost certainly agree on.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.960
That Ted Lasso, he was onto something here.
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.519
Although I did check the methods section pretty carefully.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:24.559
And nowhere in the research did they recommend pub trivia, bar fights, and hilarious drama as an evidence-based team cohesion intervention.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.680
Wait a sec, but did they rule those out?
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.359
I mean, they didn't rule them out completely.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:35.119
So I feel like there is opportunity for future research here.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:35.920
Agreed.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:36.240
Agreed.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:37.119
Text study.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.359
Yep, for sure.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:20.799
You know, there's something about this Richmond example that really hits home for me because I've worked in veterinary environments where there is an us versus them mentality.
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.279
And it was not subtle.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:25.519
It was palpable.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.399
People were pitted against each other.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:34.720
There were groups, there were sides, and everybody pretty much knew where everybody else belonged.
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:39.599
And the weird thing was we still got shit done.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:47.599
Patients got cared for, emergencies got handled, we showed up, we did our jobs, and we did them pretty darn well.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:22:03.200
But that us versus them absolutely changed how we did the work, who you trusted, who you asked for help, who you shared information with, and especially what happened when something went wrong.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:03.920
Yeah.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.440
The this, I mean, I've I've experienced this too.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:09.599
I've led hospitals that had this experience.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:13.119
This is like the common what everybody calls clicks, right?
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.799
I've got clicks in my hospital.
00:22:14.879 --> 00:22:16.240
I don't know what to do about these clicks.
00:22:16.399 --> 00:22:17.839
Oh, this place is so clicky.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.839
That's this is an example of that.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:20.319
Yeah.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:20.960
Oh, yeah.
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.759
It's I yeah, I know I'm not the only one.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:28.000
It's out there, rampant, and it's such a oh, it's so heavy.
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:28.799
You can feel it when you.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:29.839
Walk through the door.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:30.240
Yeah.
00:22:30.399 --> 00:22:31.119
Oh, totally.
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:31.759
I know.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:32.159
I know.
00:22:32.399 --> 00:22:34.079
Or when you walk into different rooms in the process.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:34.799
Oh, yeah.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:36.159
Different parts of the hospitals.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.039
Oh my gosh.
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.920
Absolutely.
00:22:38.159 --> 00:22:40.960
It it really drives how you interact with people.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.039
It drives how you think about them.
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:49.039
It limits your curiosity because you're never thinking, hmm, I wonder what happened here.
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:49.440
Right.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:54.159
You're you always immediately go to, oh, I know why they did that.
00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:08.240
And then you have a really interesting problem because every interaction starts to become evidence for that story that we already believe about that other group.
00:23:08.639 --> 00:23:09.279
Yeah.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:11.519
So I'm kind of curious, Josh.
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:13.200
What do you think about this?
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:24.000
Once a team has gotten into that us versus them pattern, what actually starts moving people back towards that we mindset?
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:24.799
Yeah.
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.559
I mean, I I don't think there is like a magic wand here.
00:23:28.639 --> 00:23:34.559
I don't think there's a singular thing, but you touched on something, Andy, that that definitely comes to mind for me.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:47.039
You you said that uh, you know, people when when we're in this sort of clicky environment, this uh fractured environment, this us versus this them, we have stories about the us and the them.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.839
And the interactions become self-fulfilling prophecies, right?
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:56.559
They just further deepen the evidence to justify the stories that we have.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:02.399
So I think if we can find a way to get first disconfirming data, right?
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:12.559
Like something that uh is contrary to the story, that uh um weakens the uh information that we're leaning on, I think that can be helpful.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:21.839
And then if we can collect data that weaves a better story, a healthier story, a more accurate story, I think that can be really helpful too.
00:24:22.159 --> 00:24:23.200
Yeah, for sure.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:24.000
For sure.
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:25.759
I I always think of it, right?
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:31.839
Like the story that we tell ourselves is a bit like an Oscar-winning play or an Oscar-winning movie, right?
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:39.359
And if you're writing your Oscar-winning movie, well, then you're gonna be the hero in your movie.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:40.480
Of course you are.
00:24:40.639 --> 00:24:42.399
That makes complete sense that you are.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.480
And what parts does that leave for the other people, right?
00:24:46.639 --> 00:24:46.879
Yeah.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:48.079
So exactly.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:50.000
Yeah, I mean, that's that's a great way.
00:24:50.159 --> 00:24:51.440
That's a great way to think of it.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:25:02.319
Now, this is where I think Ted's approach gets really kind of interesting because he doesn't give them all a speech about how they're all Richmond and how they should all be one team.
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:06.159
They already know that they're all AFC Richmond.
00:25:06.399 --> 00:25:14.480
What he does is gives them an opportunity to experience being Richmond differently.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.359
And his approach, I think, is winning.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.720
It's genius because he disrupts those usual groups.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.639
Suddenly, different people, they know different things.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.599
Different people see each other contributing.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:31.759
They have to rely on people they haven't necessarily been relying on.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:37.039
And nobody is standing there saying, okay, now we're gonna do a cohesion exercise.
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.159
And oh, by the way, there's pizza in the break room for after.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.879
They're just having a different experience of each other.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:50.240
And I wonder what that veterinary version could really look like.
00:25:50.639 --> 00:25:59.839
Because come on, we have our own attackers, midfielders, and defenders, doctors, technicians, CSRs, assistants.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:09.599
So, where in the actual work could we create more opportunities for those people to contribute together?
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:11.440
Not something extra, right?
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:16.240
Not another happy hour, not everybody say one nice thing about Brenda.
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:28.159
I'm talking about the work that we're already doing to create an opportunity for me to learn, oh, Brenda's really good at that.
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.799
I didn't know that you knew that, Josh.
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:35.039
Tess, you just contributed and made my job so much easier.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:46.240
So, Josh, do you think actually seeing what somebody else is dealing with could change that Oscar-winning story that we're writing in our head about other people?
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:48.159
Oh, uh totally.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.319
I I mean, I've seen it actually happen.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:27:03.039
Uh, we we did some work, Andy, with an organization uh a few years back, and they were having there was a an us versus them sort of fracturing that was happening between senior leadership and then the folks on the floor.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:08.879
And one of the things that they tried, uh, which had some decent success, not universal.
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:14.399
It wasn't the singular fix that made everything better, but it definitely helped change stories for some.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:15.200
Wait, wait.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:19.519
So you're saying that there is a singular fix that can help make everything better?
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:21.759
Yes, but I'm gonna withhold that.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.480
And um, I will give that out to anybody who writes me a check for a million dollars.
00:27:28.159 --> 00:27:36.720
Um, yeah, so so one of the things that they tried is um they they basically we called it like uh uh senior leader for a day or something like that.
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:56.720
I don't remember exactly what it was, but um every individual working on the floor got an opportunity to have a paid shift where they were off the floor, their stuff was covered they had nothing to do other than just go hang out with one of the people in senior leadership and just follow them around for the day and see like what their work was like each and every day.
00:27:56.879 --> 00:28:01.359
And again, for some people it didn't make a big difference, but for some people it really did.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:12.159
And I will never forget one the you know, one person who actually reached out to me and literally said, like, I had no idea the kind of stress that she was dealing with on a day-to-day basis.
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:14.559
It's really changed the way I see her and her role.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:26.000
Like, yes, absolutely seeing people deal with their own daily shit through their own eyes makes a huge difference in the stories that we tell ourselves about each other.
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.839
Well, and it creates evidence, right?
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:36.879
Like provable, provable evidence that reiterates that we are useful to one another.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:45.039
And I think that us versus them gets really hard to maintain when we accumulate enough experiences that are we, right?
00:28:45.200 --> 00:29:02.000
Quote unquote we, which makes me think that maybe cohesion isn't something that we necessarily have to manufacture outside of work, that maybe some of the best opportunities to build it are already happening at work, doing some of the things that we already do.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:08.960
So maybe the takeaway from Ted is that we shouldn't cancel appointments, take everybody to the nearest pub and see what happens.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.079
Probably not an official flourish recommendation.
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:22.079
But I do think that there's some opportunity here because he doesn't wait for the team to fail before he invests in how they're functioning together.
00:29:22.399 --> 00:29:28.000
And he doesn't notice the fracture and just tell them to do better.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:33.200
He creates an opportunity for them to experience each other differently.
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.200
So let's get really practical here.
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:46.480
Because if you're listening, thinking, okay, great, my team could use a little bit more we, what's something that you can implement this week that might actually help?
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:51.440
To me, there's two really great realistic opportunities here.
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:56.240
The first one kind of builds on what we're we've already started to talk about.
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:01.599
And it's that idea of sort of blurring the lines between your Richmond clicks.
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:06.480
Think about your veterinary teams, your version of attackers, midfielders, and defenders.
00:30:06.639 --> 00:30:07.759
Where's your line?
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:16.319
Is it the front versus the back, the doctors versus the technicians, the day shift versus the night shift, leadership versus everybody else?
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:20.799
You don't need to dismantle every single silo this week.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.159
Just blur one line intentionally.
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:29.920
And I'll tell you, do not start with you should all spend some time together.
00:30:30.159 --> 00:30:37.200
Give people on the opposite sides of those lines some meaningful task to accomplish together.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:42.799
Maybe two people from two different roles tackle that workflow problem.
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:48.240
Maybe you change who participates or presents in rounds.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:57.119
Maybe you ask somebody from the front desk to sit in on a conversation that normally happens entirely in the back, and vice versa.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:00.319
The goal here to me, it's not forced friendship, right?
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:20.159
The goal is to give people an opportunity to see what other people are dealing with, to see how exactly they are managing their tasks and responsibilities during the day and how they are contributing to the team and the overall goal of the practice.
00:31:20.399 --> 00:31:32.879
The one, honestly, the one that comes to mind for me here, um, in the hospital that had palpable us versus them, there was very much a front desk versus the back of the hospital, right?
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:34.319
The front versus the back.
00:31:34.639 --> 00:31:52.799
And I had the opportunity, not very often, because, you know, but to try and bridge that sort of gap and encourage the technicians on my team to be a part of some of the things that the front desk did, right?
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:58.720
So they would, it was usually after hours, they would be responsible for doing some of those front desk tasks.
00:31:58.879 --> 00:32:03.039
They had to check people in, they had to make sure that the money was right and they had to do some of those things.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:11.920
I'll tell you, that was a great perspective giver because they were able to see, wow, the front desk isn't up here screwing up.
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:17.039
I'm impressed as hell when they answer six phone calls, get this emergency through the door, make sure Ms.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:20.720
Anderson's paid her bill and are nice all at the same time.
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:33.839
So that line blurring really helps to sort of broaden that perspective and it incorporates the value that comes with solving problems that affect everybody together.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.159
It was it was a cool moment.
00:32:36.399 --> 00:32:38.559
Now, Josh, I know, right?
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.559
I know, I know our community well enough.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:53.759
I know vetmed, and I'm pretty sure that there are some listeners out there that are thinking, you know, Andy, this sounds lovely, but clearly you haven't seen my appointment schedule and my dismal support staff numbers.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.759
Because I think that's fair.
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.839
And after all, vetmed is very, very busy.
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.920
But if somebody says, you know, I don't have time to do this stuff, we can barely keep our heads above water.
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:07.680
What would you say to them, Josh?
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:11.680
I mean, honestly, what I want to say is a version of Too Bad, So Sad.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:17.119
Um, I, you know, Andy, honestly, the the way that I think about this, I I get it.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.799
There's uh a ton of urgency and time pressure.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:25.039
There's overwhelm and cases and patients to be tended to.
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.200
There's staffing challenges and barriers.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.240
I completely understand that that stuff is real and valid.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.680
What we spend time on now shapes what we'll need to spend time on later.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.000
So, like people just need to think about that.
00:33:38.159 --> 00:33:42.480
What we spend time on now shapes what we'll need to spend time on later.
00:33:42.639 --> 00:33:50.559
The opposite of that is what you do not spend time on now also shapes what you'll need to spend time on later.
00:33:50.879 --> 00:33:55.759
Not spending time on this issue is not a solution to solving it.
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:56.799
Period.
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:58.480
So find a way.
00:33:58.639 --> 00:34:00.000
Like just find a way.
00:34:00.159 --> 00:34:05.359
Maybe the ideas that you and I are suggesting in this uh particular episode aren't quite the fit.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.359
So fucking find another one.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:14.320
Like, you know, you if you don't find time to address the issue, that doesn't make the issue go away.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:18.559
If you have a toothache and you keep ignoring it, guess what tends to happen?
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:20.480
It gets worse.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:25.440
It gets a lot worse and eventually can turn into something incredibly serious.
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:27.920
It's the same thing with these team dynamics.
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:29.360
Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:35.920
I always remind people that the 10 minutes that you invest in this is worth it.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.039
Is it worth it?
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:47.360
Is it worth it for you to be able to have a team that is connected and can work together and sees everybody else on the team as a human and not that team over there?
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:48.719
Is it worth it?
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:50.639
So yeah, yep.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:57.679
I could there is a soapbox that I could very quickly jump up on about that because that is something I hear a lot and I know you do too.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:59.759
That uh I don't have time for this.
00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:02.559
Okay, how how's how's that going for you?
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:03.039
Yeah.
00:35:03.759 --> 00:35:05.759
Is really what I want to look at them and say, oh, that's great.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:06.800
And how's that working for you?
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:09.039
What's your turnover rate been in the last couple of months?
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.920
Anyway, anyway, soapbox stepping off.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:12.800
Fair.
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:24.239
Okay, the next thought that I had it comes from something that Coach Beard actually says in this episode that in order to create cohesion, you either need to have a common goal or a common enemy.
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.000
Well, both of these things came to be for the Lady Greyhounds.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.279
But what if we took some of that advice too?
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:36.559
What if we found a small win that we could all create together?
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:41.679
Think about something that's making work, I don't know, a little bit harder than it needs to be.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.960
Don't pick your biggest, ugliest culture problem.
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.000
Pick something small, something specific, something moderately annoying.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:55.679
Maybe nobody knows who is supposed to do client callbacks with lab results at the end of the day.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.679
Maybe the drop-off system is complete and utter chaos.
00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:08.159
Maybe the handoffs between the front desk and the clinical team, it works on paper, but in reality, it is a total disaster.
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:15.360
Pick one small thing and then bring people together who actually touch that problem.
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:24.800
And instead of leadership walking in with the answer, ask them what could we change that might make this work better for all of us?
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:27.759
And then actually try something.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:31.920
Because sure, hopefully you'll fix the annoying thing, right?
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:35.519
But sometimes something else pretty cool happens too.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:45.920
Now the CSR, the technician, the assistant, the doctor, whomever is involved, gets to walk away with that shared experience of we figured this out.
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:48.239
We made this better, and you know what?
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.000
We did it together.
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:58.480
And if you remember that loop from the research, success can build cohesion, and cohesion can help create more success.
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:05.679
Maybe you don't necessarily start by trying to solve your team cohesion problem.
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:12.559
Maybe you just give them something small that they can win at together.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.039
And then you build from there.
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:26.960
Now, again, I know our industry and I know our listeners, and I can already hear somebody saying, okay, but we're talking about a team with years of baggage here.
00:37:27.279 --> 00:37:33.759
Is fixing who calls the lab results in at the end of the day actually gonna change anything, Andy?
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:35.679
And that makes me wonder.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:41.440
Josh, do you think that a small win is actually enough to matter?
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.400
Uh in and of itself, probably not.
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:51.199
But it like you said, Andy, usually these things take, you know, a long time, possibly years to build up.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.360
The problems take a long time to build up.
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.360
They often will take a long time to tear down and rebuild.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:59.360
So you have to start somewhere.
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:07.920
And starting with something small, uh and doable and achievable that you can point to as a success and then build on, like you said, to build from there.
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:09.360
Uh, I think is really important.
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:16.559
Multiple small wins over time accumulate and build up into something uh that that creates real momentum.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:17.840
Yeah.
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:21.119
So small intentional efforts.
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:38.800
Now, maybe this is where we leave this one because clearly I could go on and on and talk about this episode and these concepts and get back on my soapbox for another hour because I really think it's easy to look at a team that's getting the work done and assume we're good.
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:40.079
We've got this.
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.639
And Ted could have absolutely done that.
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:46.000
But he was paying attention to something beyond the scoreboard.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:50.320
He was paying attention to who they were becoming to one another.
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:55.119
And I think that's worth paying attention to in our veterinary teams as well.
00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:06.239
Because the way we experience one another today can shape how well we are able to do the work together tomorrow, next week, and next year.
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:17.759
And the really hopeful part of this research, at least for me, is that we don't have to wait around hoping that a cohesive team magically appears.
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.920
We get to create those little opportunities for we.
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:26.639
Sometimes what the team needs is not another practice.
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:30.000
What they need is a chance to become a team.
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:42.159
And although I can't emphasize this enough, they probably don't need to have any assault charges added on, which unfortunately does not apply to our friend Florida man.
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:43.360
Oh, Florida Man.
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:47.039
Florida Man and assault charges go hand in hand.
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:47.840
Often.
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:48.800
Yep.
00:39:49.279 --> 00:39:52.000
And this week's Florida Man does not disappoint.
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:56.239
Yes, there were assault charges, and it was a result of this headline.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:03.519
Florida man arrested after allegedly pouring ketchup on his sleeping girlfriend.
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:04.960
How much ketchup?
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:15.440
Um, enough that when they questioned him as to whether or not he did it, of course, he denied it because Florida man, there was ketchup all over the side of his pants.
00:40:15.759 --> 00:40:19.039
So, I mean, this wasn't like a couple of packets of ketchup, right?
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:21.759
Like this was clearly a handle of ketchup.
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:30.000
And apparently this came as a result of an argument that they were having, and he was gonna get her back by pouring ketchup over.
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:37.199
This is like such a fascinating Florida man from a psychological perspective.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:44.800
Like I'm picturing him in his home, and he's enraged at his sleeping girlfriend, and he decides he needs to get back at her.
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:50.239
And of all the possible things, he comes up with, I'm gonna pour something on her.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:58.079
And of all the possible things to pour on her, he goes to the fridge and grabs the jug of ketchup.
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:01.599
Well, and to have that much ketchup on hand, right?
00:41:01.759 --> 00:41:08.559
Like, yeah, yeah, that's a lot, that's a lot of ketchup to have ketchup all over his girlfriend and all over his pants.
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:11.119
I mean, that's that's a lot of ketchup.
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:14.719
This man that's that's a lot of ketchup rage.
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:16.239
Yeah, yes, that's impressive.
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:17.199
That's impressive.
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:18.480
Well done, Florida man.
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:18.880
Well done.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:19.199
Right?
00:41:19.279 --> 00:41:19.519
I know.
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:20.239
Never a discussion.
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:25.840
Also, didn't know that that ketchup squirted on somebody could qualify for assault.
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:27.279
Hashtag Florida.
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:28.719
Hashtag Florida.
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:30.079
Oh, this was great.
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:32.719
Thank you, thank you for spending some time with us today.
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.920
This is a great conversation about two of my favorite things, veterinary medicine and Ted Lasso.
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:42.239
And I got to bring them together and uh talk about all of this with you today.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.800
So I appreciate everybody being here and listening.
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:48.960
As always, check out the show notes for today's paper and resource links.
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:58.079
And if you are a Ted Lasso fan like me and a veterinary medicine fan like me and enjoy this conversation, I'm gonna ask you to help us grow.
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:03.759
Think of one person who also might appreciate this conversation and share this episode with them.
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:04.480
Just one.
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:05.279
That's it.
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.000
Let's expand our community together.
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:11.599
Thank you so much for being a part of it, and thanks for listening.
00:42:11.759 --> 00:42:12.800
Bye, everybody.
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:13.920
Take care, everyone.
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:14.559
Be wel.
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:26.880
Thanks for hanging out with us in the Veterinary Culture Lab, powered by the science of workplace well-being, and brought to you by Flourish Veterinary Consulting.
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:34.159
If today's episode sparked an idea, made you smile, or got you thinking, hey, I should totally try that.
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:35.279
Let us know.
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:36.559
What do you think?
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:44.159
Be sure to subscribe, share, and remember a thriving veterinary culture is possible, and you don't have
00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:10.160
Welcome to the Veterinary Culture Lab, where science meets real-world application.
00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:11.599
I'm Andy Davison.
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.439
And I'm Josh Weisman.
00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:18.640
Together, we'll show you an evidence-based blueprint for renovating culture in your veterinary team.
00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:20.480
One episode at a time.
00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:28.239
Just because your veterinary team is getting the work done doesn't mean they're working well together.
00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:32.399
What happens when an us versus them mentality creeps into your culture?
00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:41.679
Well, today we're taking inspiration from Ted Lasso himself and digging into the science of cohesion, performance, and what it takes to become a team.
00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:56.479
I'm tired and excited and sad and overwhelmed and optimistic and all of those things at once.
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:04.879
I'm gonna give you one guess as to why I might be feeling all of those things lately.
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:09.920
Um, let's see, it starts with a sta and ends with an Ella.
00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:12.319
Yeah, nailed it.
00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:13.200
Nailed it.
00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:15.280
We we adopted a puppy.
00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:21.760
Um then I got a uh a little six-month-old little girl.
00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:27.439
Her name is Stella, Stella Bobella, um, from Soul Dog Rescue.
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:33.680
We adopted her, let's see here, it's almost three weeks ago, and she's a sweetheart.
00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:37.840
She's also like a demon spawn on wheels.
00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:39.280
Um, it's great.
00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:40.079
It's really great.
00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:40.959
I really do love her.
00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:44.480
But I I gotta tell you, it's it's got it's got me thinking about a lot of things.
00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:50.159
Like it's got me thinking about the relationship that we had with Addy, the dog that we lost earlier this year.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:02:01.680
Um, it's got me thinking about just relationships with dogs in general, like what they're like and how they're different, and how each dog brings its own kind of unique personality.
00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:07.680
Um, how dogs are kind of doggy, but different dogs are different, you know, like that kind of stuff.
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:08.960
And it's also really got me think.
00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:10.080
Oh, go ahead, please.
00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:19.039
Oh, I was just gonna say that reminds me of something that I came across um the other day that seems very fitting here, and I find it to be true.
00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:25.520
We don't we don't get the dog that we want, we get the dog that we need.
00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:28.639
Well, I'm hoping it turns out that way.
00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:37.120
Yeah, yeah, that they come to teach us the thing that we need to learn, and that that always stands out to me because you're right, right?
00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:53.360
Like all of our all of our dogs are different and they show up in different ways, and they they're just they're all amazing, awesome, lovable, perfect little snugs of love, but they're all just a little bit different in what they do for us.
00:02:53.520 --> 00:03:00.879
And that's always so evident when you have a shift in, you know, the the the family, right?
00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:04.719
And when you get in a new, a new pupper, you're like, oh wow.
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:05.520
Totally.
00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.240
No, I I think I think that I think you're spot on.
00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:11.759
And um it'll be interesting to see how that plays out with Stella.
00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.960
You know, we're still we're still in that like feeling each other out phase.
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:15.439
What is it?
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.199
The rule they say it's um 333.
00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:21.120
There's like the first three days, certain stuff happens, then three weeks, then three months, right?
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:23.039
Like we haven't even hit the three-week mark yet.
00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:26.000
So, but she is her personality's coming out for sure.
00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:30.319
And I I am finding her delightful, and I'm definitely falling in love with this dog.
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:32.479
But it's also got me thinking about names.
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.680
Like Andy, you know, we have a thread in our Slack about you know all the goofy names that we have for people.
00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:41.680
Can you share one of the names for one of your dogs or one of your horses?
00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:43.840
One of the goofy, like nicknamey things.
00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:49.680
Oh, the latest, the latest one is for Marshall.
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.599
And as you know, like World Cup, right?
00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:55.840
Like everybody got excited about World Cup, me included.
00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:59.919
Like I went super nerdy nutso and like got on the World Cup bandwagon.
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.800
I've never watched soccer in my life, but now I'm like number one fan and I know them all, right?
00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:12.080
And there was a player, I believe, on the Egypt team that's name is Omar Marmoush.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.439
That's oh yeah, Marmoush.
00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:13.599
Yep.
00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:14.879
Yeah, Marmoush, right?
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:25.680
Well, that very quickly became one of Marshall's nicknames because Marshall became Marmar for a whole nother story that we don't have time for.
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:30.000
And then it turned into Omarmoush.
00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.759
So Omar Marmoush is now a new nickname.
00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:34.959
I love it.
00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:36.399
That's genius.
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:36.800
Yes.
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:40.639
Um, I've been thinking a lot about names now that we have this new puppy, right?
00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:48.240
We did decide to name her Stella, but I'm starting to actually rethink it now because I'm finding Stella is a little bit hard to come up with goofy nicknames like that, right?
00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:49.759
So you know Rue.
00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.000
We have our boy Rue, and Rue is like Mr.
00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:58.480
Protector, you know, every sound out, especially like the sound of like the UPS truck brakes, and he goes nuts.
00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:05.040
And of course, this little six-month-old puppy is like, you know, watching the big boy in the house and starting to learn, right?
00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:16.160
So now we've we've got these like two dogs that are, you know, Huffle Puffle whenever there's a potential perceived threat somewhere in the vicinity of 70 miles.
00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:20.319
So I'm kind of thinking of switching their names to Rolex and Swatch.
00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:23.600
Because they're gonna be watchdogs.
00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:24.879
Which would be which?
00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:26.000
Who would be who?
00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:27.439
That's a good point.
00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:32.079
Um, I mean, I feel like Rue is very swatchy.
00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:32.639
There you go.
00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:37.279
And and Stella's a little princess, so yeah, she's gonna have to be the Rolex.
00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:38.160
She's a princess.
00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.360
Her Majesty Stella needs to be Rolex.
00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:42.639
Stella's the Rolex, yes.
00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:44.240
I love it.
00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:45.920
Enough about me.
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.519
We should probably get to the task at hand.
00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:48.480
Oh, come on.
00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:49.920
We have a veterinary audience.
00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:54.000
I feel like we could talk about puppies for an hour, and that would be completely acceptable.
00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:59.600
You're probably there's something else that we could talk about, though, that I think would be completely acceptable.
00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:03.040
Which is the new the new Ted Lasso season.
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:04.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:04.800
Right?
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:09.199
I am so happy that the show is back.
00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:11.040
What what are you up to date?
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:13.759
What do you think of the new the new spin?
00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:14.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:20.160
Greta and I um have watched all four episodes of season four, and we are up to date.
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:24.079
And I okay, so I I was a little bit worried.
00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:28.800
Like I was excited when they said it was coming back, but I was also worried like how do you recapture the magic?
00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:30.720
They ended it so perfectly, right?
00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:31.839
So I was a little bit worried.
00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:37.120
And then episode one, Greta and I were both a tiny bit skeptical after episode one, but we're all in now.
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:37.920
Like we're hooked.
00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.279
This latest episode was phenomenal.
00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:41.120
Mike and I watched it just the other day.
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:45.199
And when, you know, when it was over, I turned to him and I was like, okay, we're this is good.
00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:45.680
We're in.
00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:46.160
I'm in.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:46.959
This is it.
00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:51.279
And it's this latest episode that I want to talk about today.
00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:58.240
So, quick warning for everybody listening: there are going to be some minor spoilers.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:04.959
So if you have not watched episode four yet and you're a Ted Lasso fan, just pause us here, go and watch it.
00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:06.240
We will wait.
00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:06.879
Okay.
00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:12.560
So in this latest episode, the Lady Greyhounds are doing really, really well, right?
00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:14.879
They're doing awesome on the pitch.
00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.399
They are technically undefeated and they're getting the results.
00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:20.959
But Josh, you'll remember the coaches, right?
00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:24.959
They start to notice that something isn't quite right.
00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:35.199
You've got the attackers hanging out with the attackers, the midfielders are all huddled together during their water break, and the defenders are hanging out with one another exclusively in the locker room.
00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:38.079
They're celebrating with their own groups.
00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.759
Or as Alice and Beard explained to Ted, cliques.
00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:51.040
They're all technically Richmond, but there's this pretty obvious us versus them thing happening inside of the team.
00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:55.279
Ted sees it, he feels it, and he sure as heck notices it.
00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.079
And here's one thing that I'm curious about, Josh.
00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:05.120
When you think back on that episode, what do you think Ted was seeing that concerned him?
00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:09.600
I mean, in every obvious measure, his team was succeeding.
00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:11.120
Yeah, it's a great question.
00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:11.839
I mean, you're right.
00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.199
Like in the table, they were 2-0 and 2.
00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:16.480
So they were undefeated.
00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:17.759
They were doing pretty well.
00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:26.639
But when he watched them interact in the locker room and on the pitch, especially off to the side, yeah, he could see something that was very concerning to him.
00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:28.000
They were fractured.
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:40.320
It wasn't a team, it was subgroups who managed to, you know, minimally function together as a team during matches, but they weren't really a team.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.759
But Ted, being Ted, does not do that.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:47.200
He instead decides that these women they need something different.
00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:58.960
And because this is Ted Lasso, that naturally means canceled practice and pub trivia, which apparently is a really big deal over in the UK.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.720
Yeah, which you might discover soon since you're going to the UK soon.
00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:03.360
I'm excited.
00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:06.000
Hopefully you get, yeah, I hope you get to do some pub trivia.
00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:08.799
Me personally, I would have taken them bowling, but that's just me.
00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:09.519
Yep.
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:09.919
Yep.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:12.080
I think it would have accomplished a similar goal.
00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:13.360
I hope so.
00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:21.279
So off they go to pub trivia, where chaos ensues, and the episode delivers in a way only Ted Lasso can.
00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:25.759
Trivia, a bar fight, and an ending that I won't totally give away.
00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.080
But seriously, everybody, go and watch it.
00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:29.279
It's really good.
00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:34.559
Now, underneath all of that ridiculousness, something really, really interesting happens.
00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:38.639
Those little groups, those clicks, they start to break down.
00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:43.279
People who weren't really interacting with one another before are interacting.
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.519
They're learning things about each other.
00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:47.919
They're solving problems together.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:51.759
And granted, they're also fighting other people together.
00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:55.919
But by the end of it, something feels different.
00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:06.320
They feel a little less like the attackers, the midfielders, the defenders who happen to wear the same uniform and a little more like AFC Richmond.
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:10.960
And holy crap, Josh, this makes me think about vetmed.
00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.639
I mean, come on, all the time we see teams that are getting the work done.
00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:18.399
The appointments are getting seen.
00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:20.000
Everybody made it through surgery.
00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:22.799
The hospitalized patients are getting their treatments on time.
00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:24.399
Clients get called back.
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.399
And somehow everybody manages to leave on time that day.
00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:30.720
So we think we're good.
00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.039
Meanwhile, the CSRs, they're pissed at the technicians.
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:40.000
The technicians think the doctors have no idea with what they're dealing with today.
00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:42.799
The doctors are frustrated with everybody.
00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:46.320
And surgery and outpatient, they haven't spoken since 2023.
00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:47.919
Or 1983.
00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:48.480
Right.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:49.120
Right.
00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:50.080
Seriously.
00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:55.120
So, Josh, the team, though, they're getting the work done.
00:10:55.600 --> 00:11:08.559
And when you think about teams that you and I have worked with, what do you think separates a team that's genuinely functioning well from one that's just really good at getting the work done?
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:09.440
Yeah.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.120
Um so I'm I'm gonna pump myself up a little bit here.
00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:19.679
Uh to me, and this is this is really about what what we think of in the four, the four P's of positive leadership is partnership.
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:22.960
I I think it's it's a sense of connection and community that's missing.
00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:28.960
Uh that they're they are interdependent, but they don't feel interdependent.
00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:32.399
And if that feeling is missing, then you get fracturing.
00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:41.279
And yeah, people will get things done, but they're not really getting things done to, you know, the the fullest capabilities, and they're certainly not finding full fulfillment in what they do.
00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:42.240
Yeah.
00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:54.399
That it has more to it has more to do with that partnership, that connection that you create with one another than the simple act of accomplishing the thing.
00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.000
Oh, yeah, totally, totally.
00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:56.240
Yeah.
00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:01.919
You know, I think about like um, okay, so a sports metaphor here or sports analogy, I should say.
00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:03.360
I mean, that's where we are with this.
00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:03.679
So yeah.
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:04.720
That's where we are, right?
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:07.519
So a different kind of football, American football.
00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:17.519
Um, gosh, I don't remember when when exactly this was, but when Dan Snyder took over ownership of the um, at the time they were called the Washington Redskins, they're now the commanders.
00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:29.679
Uh, when he took over ownership of the commanders, uh, he spent a ton of money on getting like the best possible players he could, and he accumulated this incredible talent, but they failed as a team.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:38.159
They they performed actually quite poorly compared to other teams in the league, in large part because there wasn't any sense of team.
00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:45.600
Team is like a it's a special kind of connection between human beings where we have each other's back and we have each other's best interests in mind.
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:54.720
And, you know, we're we're sort of fighting the good fight for the person to our right and the person to our left, not just for ourselves or not just for, you know, the five o'clock bell when we can go home.
00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:55.919
Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:07.360
And that's a beautiful sort of illustration of that distinction that sort of keeps coming back to me because getting the work done and working well together are definitely not the same thing.
00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.200
And then there's another layer to this that I find really interesting.
00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:27.519
When a team does start to come together, when people trust each other more, feel like they're actually in it together and start thinking more like we instead of us versus them, does that happen because they've had some success together?
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:35.440
Or does being that kind of team actually help them become more successful?
00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.559
And that's kind of what I want to dig into today.
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:45.919
What's the relationship between how well a team works together and how well they actually perform?
00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:51.360
And more importantly for us, what in the hell are we supposed to do with that in veterinary medicine?
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:57.360
Now, the question that we just asked Does being a more connected team help you perform better?
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:02.399
Or does performing well help you become more of a connected team?
00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:07.919
Is pretty much exactly what the researchers behind this paper wanted to figure out.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:13.679
And I feel like the obvious answer is both.
00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:15.279
I mean, right?
00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:16.399
Both.
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:16.960
Okay.
00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:17.919
End the podcast.
00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.039
Thanks for listening, everybody.
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:19.600
Have a good day.
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:21.759
We're not letting you off the hook that easy.
00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.639
No, it's camp, it can't be that easy.
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:26.320
It can't be that easy.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:27.440
And it's not.
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:29.519
But it is, but it's not.
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:42.639
Now, the paper that we're gonna dig into today is called modeling reciprocal team cohesion performance relationships as impacted by shared leadership and members' competence.
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:51.200
And that was written by John Matthew, Michael Kuchenberger, Lauren, Dino Senzo.
00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:56.000
There, that comes with an accent, said poorly, and Greg Riley.
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.120
Whew! Okay, that rolls right off the tongue, right?
00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:07.759
Now, what I like about this paper is that they didn't just ask whether cohesion and performance were related.
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:10.879
We already have plenty of research telling us that they are.
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:16.639
What they wanted to know was how this relationship unfolds over time.
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:21.840
Does cohesion today predict how well teams perform later?
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.679
Does performing well today make the team more cohesive later?
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:31.679
And does that relationship change as the team spends more time together?
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:39.279
Now, before we go any further, when we say team cohesion, we're not just talking about everybody being work besties.
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.200
This isn't a do you want to celebrate Taco Tuesday together after work today?
00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:56.000
This is that sense of closeness, that belonging, but also being connected around the work that you're doing and the goals that you're trying to accomplish together, which brings us back to Richmond, right?
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:02.799
The Lady Greyhounds, they can absolutely play soccer beside one another and they're clearly capable of getting results.
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:09.759
But there is a difference between being able to play beside one another and functioning as a team.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.879
And that's what's super interesting for me.
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.679
Okay, so really quick science.
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.679
The researchers actually approached this a couple of different ways.
00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:26.639
First, they went back and pulled together previous studies that had looked at cohesion and performance across multiple points in time.
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:33.519
And then they did their own longitudinal research where they could actually follow these teams over time.
00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:40.080
So it wasn't just, hey, do teams that like each other become more capable of performing better?
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.799
They were looking at what happened with these teams over time.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.039
And here's the important part the answer is yes.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:58.240
And it's cool because it goes both ways that when teams become more cohesive, they become better performers.
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:04.640
And when teams perform better, that helped predict greater cohesion later.
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:13.920
So success seems to help bring people together, and being together helps to create more success.
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:15.039
Cool, right?
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:16.640
I think that's super cool.
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:17.279
Yeah.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.839
This is what you call a feedback loop.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.000
So you have a good shift together.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.880
Things click, people help each other.
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:26.640
You get through something hard.
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.480
And everybody walks out thinking, damn, we handled that really well.
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.559
And maybe I trust you a little bit more when I walk through the door tomorrow.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.640
So maybe tomorrow I ask for help sooner.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:43.119
Maybe I speak up when I notice something.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:47.839
Maybe we coordinate how we're going to handle this emergency a little bit better.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:51.680
And we perform a little bit better again.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:59.440
And now I've got more evidence that we as a team are actually really good together.
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:06.720
But the part I think is especially interesting is that the two sides of the loop, they weren't necessarily equal.
00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:14.000
In the researchers' longitudinal studies, cohesion was the stronger predictor of what happened next.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:20.000
And that its relationship with future performance actually got stronger over time.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.200
And that makes me think about Ted, right?
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:29.359
Looking at this undefeated team, going, yeah, I'm not convinced that we're good yet.
00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:41.440
Because the scoreboard can tell you the team has performed, but it doesn't necessarily tell you what they're building together and how it will affect how they perform next.
00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:50.400
And if I wasn't already jumping up and down here, there is one more finding that made me clap my hands, applaud, and scream out loud.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:56.160
Because Matthew and his colleagues also looked at shared leadership.
00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:05.440
Basically, leadership influence being distributed among members of the team instead of everything flowing through one designated leader.
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:10.559
And shared leadership was associated with greater cohesion.
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:15.039
Interestingly, it wasn't directly predicting better performance.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:20.720
Instead, the pathway that they found was, in my opinion, even better.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:43.680
Essentially, shared leadership helps build cohesion, and cohesion helps drive performance, which feels pretty relevant when we start thinking about veterinary teen, where sometimes we're still operating as though the person with the highest title or the most letters behind their name is supposed to be the source for every single answer, every single decision, and every bit of leadership.
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:50.559
So if we strip this paper down, here is the takeaway that I really want us to carry into this conversation.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.680
Success can help a team come together.
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.279
Connection can help a team become successful.
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:03.200
And over time, that cohesion matters more and more and more.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.680
Which means something that you and I can almost certainly agree on.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.960
That Ted Lasso, he was onto something here.
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.519
Although I did check the methods section pretty carefully.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:24.559
And nowhere in the research did they recommend pub trivia, bar fights, and hilarious drama as an evidence-based team cohesion intervention.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.680
Wait a sec, but did they rule those out?
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.359
I mean, they didn't rule them out completely.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:35.119
So I feel like there is opportunity for future research here.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:35.920
Agreed.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:36.240
Agreed.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:37.119
Text study.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.359
Yep, for sure.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:20.799
You know, there's something about this Richmond example that really hits home for me because I've worked in veterinary environments where there is an us versus them mentality.
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.279
And it was not subtle.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:25.519
It was palpable.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.399
People were pitted against each other.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:34.720
There were groups, there were sides, and everybody pretty much knew where everybody else belonged.
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:39.599
And the weird thing was we still got shit done.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:47.599
Patients got cared for, emergencies got handled, we showed up, we did our jobs, and we did them pretty darn well.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:22:03.200
But that us versus them absolutely changed how we did the work, who you trusted, who you asked for help, who you shared information with, and especially what happened when something went wrong.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:03.920
Yeah.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.440
The this, I mean, I've I've experienced this too.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:09.599
I've led hospitals that had this experience.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:13.119
This is like the common what everybody calls clicks, right?
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.799
I've got clicks in my hospital.
00:22:14.879 --> 00:22:16.240
I don't know what to do about these clicks.
00:22:16.399 --> 00:22:17.839
Oh, this place is so clicky.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.839
That's this is an example of that.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:20.319
Yeah.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:20.960
Oh, yeah.
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.759
It's I yeah, I know I'm not the only one.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:28.000
It's out there, rampant, and it's such a oh, it's so heavy.
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:28.799
You can feel it when you.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:29.839
Walk through the door.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:30.240
Yeah.
00:22:30.399 --> 00:22:31.119
Oh, totally.
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:31.759
I know.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:32.159
I know.
00:22:32.399 --> 00:22:34.079
Or when you walk into different rooms in the process.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:34.799
Oh, yeah.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:36.159
Different parts of the hospitals.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.039
Oh my gosh.
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.920
Absolutely.
00:22:38.159 --> 00:22:40.960
It it really drives how you interact with people.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.039
It drives how you think about them.
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:49.039
It limits your curiosity because you're never thinking, hmm, I wonder what happened here.
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:49.440
Right.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:54.159
You're you always immediately go to, oh, I know why they did that.
00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:08.240
And then you have a really interesting problem because every interaction starts to become evidence for that story that we already believe about that other group.
00:23:08.639 --> 00:23:09.279
Yeah.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:11.519
So I'm kind of curious, Josh.
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:13.200
What do you think about this?
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:24.000
Once a team has gotten into that us versus them pattern, what actually starts moving people back towards that we mindset?
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:24.799
Yeah.
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.559
I mean, I I don't think there is like a magic wand here.
00:23:28.639 --> 00:23:34.559
I don't think there's a singular thing, but you touched on something, Andy, that that definitely comes to mind for me.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:47.039
You you said that uh, you know, people when when we're in this sort of clicky environment, this uh fractured environment, this us versus this them, we have stories about the us and the them.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.839
And the interactions become self-fulfilling prophecies, right?
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:56.559
They just further deepen the evidence to justify the stories that we have.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:02.399
So I think if we can find a way to get first disconfirming data, right?
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:12.559
Like something that uh is contrary to the story, that uh um weakens the uh information that we're leaning on, I think that can be helpful.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:21.839
And then if we can collect data that weaves a better story, a healthier story, a more accurate story, I think that can be really helpful too.
00:24:22.159 --> 00:24:23.200
Yeah, for sure.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:24.000
For sure.
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:25.759
I I always think of it, right?
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:31.839
Like the story that we tell ourselves is a bit like an Oscar-winning play or an Oscar-winning movie, right?
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:39.359
And if you're writing your Oscar-winning movie, well, then you're gonna be the hero in your movie.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:40.480
Of course you are.
00:24:40.639 --> 00:24:42.399
That makes complete sense that you are.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.480
And what parts does that leave for the other people, right?
00:24:46.639 --> 00:24:46.879
Yeah.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:48.079
So exactly.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:50.000
Yeah, I mean, that's that's a great way.
00:24:50.159 --> 00:24:51.440
That's a great way to think of it.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:25:02.319
Now, this is where I think Ted's approach gets really kind of interesting because he doesn't give them all a speech about how they're all Richmond and how they should all be one team.
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:06.159
They already know that they're all AFC Richmond.
00:25:06.399 --> 00:25:14.480
What he does is gives them an opportunity to experience being Richmond differently.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.359
And his approach, I think, is winning.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.720
It's genius because he disrupts those usual groups.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.639
Suddenly, different people, they know different things.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.599
Different people see each other contributing.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:31.759
They have to rely on people they haven't necessarily been relying on.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:37.039
And nobody is standing there saying, okay, now we're gonna do a cohesion exercise.
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.159
And oh, by the way, there's pizza in the break room for after.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.879
They're just having a different experience of each other.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:50.240
And I wonder what that veterinary version could really look like.
00:25:50.639 --> 00:25:59.839
Because come on, we have our own attackers, midfielders, and defenders, doctors, technicians, CSRs, assistants.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:09.599
So, where in the actual work could we create more opportunities for those people to contribute together?
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:11.440
Not something extra, right?
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:16.240
Not another happy hour, not everybody say one nice thing about Brenda.
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:28.159
I'm talking about the work that we're already doing to create an opportunity for me to learn, oh, Brenda's really good at that.
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.799
I didn't know that you knew that, Josh.
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:35.039
Tess, you just contributed and made my job so much easier.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:46.240
So, Josh, do you think actually seeing what somebody else is dealing with could change that Oscar-winning story that we're writing in our head about other people?
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:48.159
Oh, uh totally.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.319
I I mean, I've seen it actually happen.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:27:03.039
Uh, we we did some work, Andy, with an organization uh a few years back, and they were having there was a an us versus them sort of fracturing that was happening between senior leadership and then the folks on the floor.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:08.879
And one of the things that they tried, uh, which had some decent success, not universal.
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:14.399
It wasn't the singular fix that made everything better, but it definitely helped change stories for some.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:15.200
Wait, wait.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:19.519
So you're saying that there is a singular fix that can help make everything better?
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:21.759
Yes, but I'm gonna withhold that.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.480
And um, I will give that out to anybody who writes me a check for a million dollars.
00:27:28.159 --> 00:27:36.720
Um, yeah, so so one of the things that they tried is um they they basically we called it like uh uh senior leader for a day or something like that.
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:56.720
I don't remember exactly what it was, but um every individual working on the floor got an opportunity to have a paid shift where they were off the floor, their stuff was covered they had nothing to do other than just go hang out with one of the people in senior leadership and just follow them around for the day and see like what their work was like each and every day.
00:27:56.879 --> 00:28:01.359
And again, for some people it didn't make a big difference, but for some people it really did.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:12.159
And I will never forget one the you know, one person who actually reached out to me and literally said, like, I had no idea the kind of stress that she was dealing with on a day-to-day basis.
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:14.559
It's really changed the way I see her and her role.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:26.000
Like, yes, absolutely seeing people deal with their own daily shit through their own eyes makes a huge difference in the stories that we tell ourselves about each other.
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.839
Well, and it creates evidence, right?
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:36.879
Like provable, provable evidence that reiterates that we are useful to one another.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:45.039
And I think that us versus them gets really hard to maintain when we accumulate enough experiences that are we, right?
00:28:45.200 --> 00:29:02.000
Quote unquote we, which makes me think that maybe cohesion isn't something that we necessarily have to manufacture outside of work, that maybe some of the best opportunities to build it are already happening at work, doing some of the things that we already do.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:08.960
So maybe the takeaway from Ted is that we shouldn't cancel appointments, take everybody to the nearest pub and see what happens.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.079
Probably not an official flourish recommendation.
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:22.079
But I do think that there's some opportunity here because he doesn't wait for the team to fail before he invests in how they're functioning together.
00:29:22.399 --> 00:29:28.000
And he doesn't notice the fracture and just tell them to do better.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:33.200
He creates an opportunity for them to experience each other differently.
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.200
So let's get really practical here.
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:46.480
Because if you're listening, thinking, okay, great, my team could use a little bit more we, what's something that you can implement this week that might actually help?
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:51.440
To me, there's two really great realistic opportunities here.
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:56.240
The first one kind of builds on what we're we've already started to talk about.
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:01.599
And it's that idea of sort of blurring the lines between your Richmond clicks.
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:06.480
Think about your veterinary teams, your version of attackers, midfielders, and defenders.
00:30:06.639 --> 00:30:07.759
Where's your line?
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:16.319
Is it the front versus the back, the doctors versus the technicians, the day shift versus the night shift, leadership versus everybody else?
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:20.799
You don't need to dismantle every single silo this week.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.159
Just blur one line intentionally.
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:29.920
And I'll tell you, do not start with you should all spend some time together.
00:30:30.159 --> 00:30:37.200
Give people on the opposite sides of those lines some meaningful task to accomplish together.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:42.799
Maybe two people from two different roles tackle that workflow problem.
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:48.240
Maybe you change who participates or presents in rounds.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:57.119
Maybe you ask somebody from the front desk to sit in on a conversation that normally happens entirely in the back, and vice versa.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:00.319
The goal here to me, it's not forced friendship, right?
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:20.159
The goal is to give people an opportunity to see what other people are dealing with, to see how exactly they are managing their tasks and responsibilities during the day and how they are contributing to the team and the overall goal of the practice.
00:31:20.399 --> 00:31:32.879
The one, honestly, the one that comes to mind for me here, um, in the hospital that had palpable us versus them, there was very much a front desk versus the back of the hospital, right?
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:34.319
The front versus the back.
00:31:34.639 --> 00:31:52.799
And I had the opportunity, not very often, because, you know, but to try and bridge that sort of gap and encourage the technicians on my team to be a part of some of the things that the front desk did, right?
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:58.720
So they would, it was usually after hours, they would be responsible for doing some of those front desk tasks.
00:31:58.879 --> 00:32:03.039
They had to check people in, they had to make sure that the money was right and they had to do some of those things.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:11.920
I'll tell you, that was a great perspective giver because they were able to see, wow, the front desk isn't up here screwing up.
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:17.039
I'm impressed as hell when they answer six phone calls, get this emergency through the door, make sure Ms.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:20.720
Anderson's paid her bill and are nice all at the same time.
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:33.839
So that line blurring really helps to sort of broaden that perspective and it incorporates the value that comes with solving problems that affect everybody together.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.159
It was it was a cool moment.
00:32:36.399 --> 00:32:38.559
Now, Josh, I know, right?
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.559
I know, I know our community well enough.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:53.759
I know vetmed, and I'm pretty sure that there are some listeners out there that are thinking, you know, Andy, this sounds lovely, but clearly you haven't seen my appointment schedule and my dismal support staff numbers.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.759
Because I think that's fair.
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.839
And after all, vetmed is very, very busy.
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.920
But if somebody says, you know, I don't have time to do this stuff, we can barely keep our heads above water.
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:07.680
What would you say to them, Josh?
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:11.680
I mean, honestly, what I want to say is a version of Too Bad, So Sad.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:17.119
Um, I, you know, Andy, honestly, the the way that I think about this, I I get it.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.799
There's uh a ton of urgency and time pressure.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:25.039
There's overwhelm and cases and patients to be tended to.
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.200
There's staffing challenges and barriers.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.240
I completely understand that that stuff is real and valid.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.680
What we spend time on now shapes what we'll need to spend time on later.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.000
So, like people just need to think about that.
00:33:38.159 --> 00:33:42.480
What we spend time on now shapes what we'll need to spend time on later.
00:33:42.639 --> 00:33:50.559
The opposite of that is what you do not spend time on now also shapes what you'll need to spend time on later.
00:33:50.879 --> 00:33:55.759
Not spending time on this issue is not a solution to solving it.
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:56.799
Period.
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:58.480
So find a way.
00:33:58.639 --> 00:34:00.000
Like just find a way.
00:34:00.159 --> 00:34:05.359
Maybe the ideas that you and I are suggesting in this uh particular episode aren't quite the fit.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.359
So fucking find another one.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:14.320
Like, you know, you if you don't find time to address the issue, that doesn't make the issue go away.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:18.559
If you have a toothache and you keep ignoring it, guess what tends to happen?
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:20.480
It gets worse.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:25.440
It gets a lot worse and eventually can turn into something incredibly serious.
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:27.920
It's the same thing with these team dynamics.
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:29.360
Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:35.920
I always remind people that the 10 minutes that you invest in this is worth it.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.039
Is it worth it?
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:47.360
Is it worth it for you to be able to have a team that is connected and can work together and sees everybody else on the team as a human and not that team over there?
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:48.719
Is it worth it?
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:50.639
So yeah, yep.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:57.679
I could there is a soapbox that I could very quickly jump up on about that because that is something I hear a lot and I know you do too.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:59.759
That uh I don't have time for this.
00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:02.559
Okay, how how's how's that going for you?
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:03.039
Yeah.
00:35:03.759 --> 00:35:05.759
Is really what I want to look at them and say, oh, that's great.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:06.800
And how's that working for you?
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:09.039
What's your turnover rate been in the last couple of months?
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.920
Anyway, anyway, soapbox stepping off.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:12.800
Fair.
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:24.239
Okay, the next thought that I had it comes from something that Coach Beard actually says in this episode that in order to create cohesion, you either need to have a common goal or a common enemy.
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.000
Well, both of these things came to be for the Lady Greyhounds.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.279
But what if we took some of that advice too?
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:36.559
What if we found a small win that we could all create together?
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:41.679
Think about something that's making work, I don't know, a little bit harder than it needs to be.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.960
Don't pick your biggest, ugliest culture problem.
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.000
Pick something small, something specific, something moderately annoying.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:55.679
Maybe nobody knows who is supposed to do client callbacks with lab results at the end of the day.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.679
Maybe the drop-off system is complete and utter chaos.
00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:08.159
Maybe the handoffs between the front desk and the clinical team, it works on paper, but in reality, it is a total disaster.
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:15.360
Pick one small thing and then bring people together who actually touch that problem.
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:24.800
And instead of leadership walking in with the answer, ask them what could we change that might make this work better for all of us?
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:27.759
And then actually try something.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:31.920
Because sure, hopefully you'll fix the annoying thing, right?
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:35.519
But sometimes something else pretty cool happens too.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:45.920
Now the CSR, the technician, the assistant, the doctor, whomever is involved, gets to walk away with that shared experience of we figured this out.
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:48.239
We made this better, and you know what?
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.000
We did it together.
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:58.480
And if you remember that loop from the research, success can build cohesion, and cohesion can help create more success.
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:05.679
Maybe you don't necessarily start by trying to solve your team cohesion problem.
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:12.559
Maybe you just give them something small that they can win at together.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.039
And then you build from there.
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:26.960
Now, again, I know our industry and I know our listeners, and I can already hear somebody saying, okay, but we're talking about a team with years of baggage here.
00:37:27.279 --> 00:37:33.759
Is fixing who calls the lab results in at the end of the day actually gonna change anything, Andy?
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:35.679
And that makes me wonder.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:41.440
Josh, do you think that a small win is actually enough to matter?
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.400
Uh in and of itself, probably not.
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:51.199
But it like you said, Andy, usually these things take, you know, a long time, possibly years to build up.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.360
The problems take a long time to build up.
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.360
They often will take a long time to tear down and rebuild.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:59.360
So you have to start somewhere.
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:07.920
And starting with something small, uh and doable and achievable that you can point to as a success and then build on, like you said, to build from there.
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:09.360
Uh, I think is really important.
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:16.559
Multiple small wins over time accumulate and build up into something uh that that creates real momentum.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:17.840
Yeah.
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:21.119
So small intentional efforts.
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:38.800
Now, maybe this is where we leave this one because clearly I could go on and on and talk about this episode and these concepts and get back on my soapbox for another hour because I really think it's easy to look at a team that's getting the work done and assume we're good.
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:40.079
We've got this.
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.639
And Ted could have absolutely done that.
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:46.000
But he was paying attention to something beyond the scoreboard.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:50.320
He was paying attention to who they were becoming to one another.
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:55.119
And I think that's worth paying attention to in our veterinary teams as well.
00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:06.239
Because the way we experience one another today can shape how well we are able to do the work together tomorrow, next week, and next year.
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:17.759
And the really hopeful part of this research, at least for me, is that we don't have to wait around hoping that a cohesive team magically appears.
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.920
We get to create those little opportunities for we.
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:26.639
Sometimes what the team needs is not another practice.
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:30.000
What they need is a chance to become a team.
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:42.159
And although I can't emphasize this enough, they probably don't need to have any assault charges added on, which unfortunately does not apply to our friend Florida man.
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:43.360
Oh, Florida Man.
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:47.039
Florida Man and assault charges go hand in hand.
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:47.840
Often.
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:48.800
Yep.
00:39:49.279 --> 00:39:52.000
And this week's Florida Man does not disappoint.
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:56.239
Yes, there were assault charges, and it was a result of this headline.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:03.519
Florida man arrested after allegedly pouring ketchup on his sleeping girlfriend.
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:04.960
How much ketchup?
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:15.440
Um, enough that when they questioned him as to whether or not he did it, of course, he denied it because Florida man, there was ketchup all over the side of his pants.
00:40:15.759 --> 00:40:19.039
So, I mean, this wasn't like a couple of packets of ketchup, right?
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:21.759
Like this was clearly a handle of ketchup.
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:30.000
And apparently this came as a result of an argument that they were having, and he was gonna get her back by pouring ketchup over.
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:37.199
This is like such a fascinating Florida man from a psychological perspective.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:44.800
Like I'm picturing him in his home, and he's enraged at his sleeping girlfriend, and he decides he needs to get back at her.
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:50.239
And of all the possible things, he comes up with, I'm gonna pour something on her.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:58.079
And of all the possible things to pour on her, he goes to the fridge and grabs the jug of ketchup.
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:01.599
Well, and to have that much ketchup on hand, right?
00:41:01.759 --> 00:41:08.559
Like, yeah, yeah, that's a lot, that's a lot of ketchup to have ketchup all over his girlfriend and all over his pants.
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:11.119
I mean, that's that's a lot of ketchup.
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:14.719
This man that's that's a lot of ketchup rage.
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:16.239
Yeah, yes, that's impressive.
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:17.199
That's impressive.
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:18.480
Well done, Florida man.
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:18.880
Well done.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:19.199
Right?
00:41:19.279 --> 00:41:19.519
I know.
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:20.239
Never a discussion.
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:25.840
Also, didn't know that that ketchup squirted on somebody could qualify for assault.
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:27.279
Hashtag Florida.
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:28.719
Hashtag Florida.
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:30.079
Oh, this was great.
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:32.719
Thank you, thank you for spending some time with us today.
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.920
This is a great conversation about two of my favorite things, veterinary medicine and Ted Lasso.
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:42.239
And I got to bring them together and uh talk about all of this with you today.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.800
So I appreciate everybody being here and listening.
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:48.960
As always, check out the show notes for today's paper and resource links.
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:58.079
And if you are a Ted Lasso fan like me and a veterinary medicine fan like me and enjoy this conversation, I'm gonna ask you to help us grow.
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:03.759
Think of one person who also might appreciate this conversation and share this episode with them.
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:04.480
Just one.
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:05.279
That's it.
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.000
Let's expand our community together.
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:11.599
Thank you so much for being a part of it, and thanks for listening.
00:42:11.759 --> 00:42:12.800
Bye, everybody.
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:13.920
Take care, everyone.
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:14.559
Be wel.
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:26.880
Thanks for hanging out with us in the Veterinary Culture Lab, powered by the science of workplace well-being, and brought to you by Flourish Veterinary Consulting.
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:34.159
If today's episode sparked an idea, made you smile, or got you thinking, hey, I should totally try that.
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:35.279
Let us know.
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:36.559
What do you think?
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:44.159
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