Ep. 188: Why Canada Really Bans Your Guns | Blair Hagen NFA

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Decades Ottawa has been chipping away at
what Canadians are allowed to own, usually

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by decree, rarely with a real debate.

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My guest has spent 30 years pushing back.

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He started as a field officer in
Vancouver and worked his way to the top

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of Canada's National Firearms Association.

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He's watched the bans pile up,
and the same fights come around

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again, and he's still at it.

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This week, in the hardest
stretch the organization has

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faced, he's the one carrying it.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
Podcast, Blair Hagen.

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Thank you for having me.

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Okay, Blair.

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Before we get into any of this,
the NFA lost Rick this week, and I

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want to give you the room to speak
to that first in whatever way- Sure

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you feel is right.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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I know it's, uh, was, uh,
quite sudden for most people.

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Uh, but, uh, our president,
Rick Ikercich, uh, did pass

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away, uh, a couple of days ago.

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Uh, uh, if you're on our social media,
uh, you saw it immediately, but, uh, it,

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uh, you know, uh, it, it was pretty, uh,
it was pretty tragic in a lot of ways.

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Uh, Rick started out as, I mean,
as we all do, field officer, and

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then you work your way up into,
uh, uh, provincial executives.

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Uh, he was an Ontario director for
a while, and, uh, then finally was

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elected, uh, president of Canada's
National Firearms Association.

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Um, a couple of months ago,
um, it became apparent that

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s- he was starting to get ill.

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He took a leave of absence, said, "Look,
I need to deal with this. Uh, I gotta

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see a doctor, and, uh, give me a couple
of months. I'll be back on my feet,

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and, uh, I'll continue." Fortunately,
it didn't, uh, work out that way,

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and, uh, he, uh, uh, eventually ended
up p- going into hospital, uh, and

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then hospice, and, uh, passed away.

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Now I think there's, uh, on the
website I believe, uh, the family's

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asked if people wanna make donations.

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There's a couple of places.

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I think the hospice is one of them.

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That's right.

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The Cancer Society's another one.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and you can find that
information on, uh, our website

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and, uh, our social media.

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So, uh, if, uh, if you n- knew
Rick, uh, liked him, wanna make a

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donation, that information is there.

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So Blair, I'm going back in
my memory banks a little bit.

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I'm going back to when I am a teenager,
late teens, and I see you coming out

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to the Historical Arms Collectors
Gun Show- Yeah … setting up a

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table and, and putting up the banners
and handing out flyers to people.

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Yeah.

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You've come a hell of
a long way since then.

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Yeah.

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It's, it's been a long,
long road, I'll say that.

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Yeah.

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Um, I, I got s- started to get
involved back in, uh, '94, '95, uh,

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because of, uh, well, I mean, uh,
because of the long gun registry.

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Mm.

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And we all knew what that meant.

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I mean, if they managed to register
all the guns, they're going to

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be coming for them at some point.

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Um, I, I had sort of been aware what
was happening with gun laws previously.

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As you know, there was legislation
from the, uh, Progressive

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Conservative government in the
early 1990s, which contained a

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lot of bans and stuff like that.

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And then of course, uh, when the Liberals
were elected in, uh, '93, uh, they made

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it their, uh, first order of business to,
uh, to bring about, uh, gun legislation.

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Uh, got a copy of the proposed legislation
and read it, and, you know, it became

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obvious that this was the end of
rights and freedoms in Canada, right?

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Mm.

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So I had to do something.

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And, uh, I took a look around at
the various organizations that, uh,

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were, were, were present then, and,
uh, I became aware of, uh, National

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Firearms Association and, uh, its
president, uh, David Tomlinson.

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Mm.

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And I read his stuff, and, uh,
Dave picked apart the legislation.

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And-

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He wasn't a lawyer or anything
like that, but he, he analyzed it

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like a lawyer would analyze it.

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Yeah.

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And he'd pick holes in things in,
in ways that somebody who only knows

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the material extremely well can.

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E- e- exactly, and, and coming from a
background of firearms expertise- Mm

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he, he was just the guy to do it.

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Mm.

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So he picked apart the legislation,
um, showed its flaws, uh, showed, uh,

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what, uh, some of the regulations,
uh, really meant and, uh, basically

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predicted, uh, that, uh, it would fail.

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Mm.

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And, uh, of course, uh, at that point
in time everybody laughed at him and

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said, "No, no, no, Dave, you're wrong,"
especially the mainstream media and, you

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know, the mainstream political parties.

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Sure.

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And, um, but, um, I got ahold of
his, his writings on it and, uh, it

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sort of, uh, it sort of gave me hope
that it could be, uh, corrected, the

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situation could be corrected, and I
think it did that for a lot of people.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah, he… I, I remember, uh, when
authorizations of transport, they

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were, uh, e- even the RCMP or at that
time the Canadian Firearms Center,

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before they were calling themselves
the Canadian Firearms Program-

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Yeah

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They didn't know really what they're
doing with these ATTs and how they're

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going out, so Dave wrote a ATT cheat
sheet, and, uh, he made it normative

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for not only the individuals trying
to get an authorization to transport,

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but also for the firearms program.

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When they look at it, it's like,
"Oh, yeah, here's another one

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coming in. We know the process." So-

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Yeah

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…
I th- I thought that was a pretty, pretty
neat thing that one individual with a

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keen mind and the ability to put pen
to paper and put it out and disseminate

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to people was able to not only affect
change within the community, but also

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within the people that sometimes the
community feels is their enemy, right?

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The Man, the government.

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Yeah, sure.

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But it, it had to be done.

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Right.

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I mean, if, uh, if, if it hadn't
been done, um, you'd be waiting for

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answers from the bureaucracy, and,
you know, that takes, as you know,

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that takes years and years and years.

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Meanwhile, you have people who,
uh, wanna engage in legitimate

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activities with firearms.

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Mm.

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How can they do it?

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Because everything's gotta
be authorized, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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And if that authorization is not
forthcoming or in a, in a way that, uh,

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is not conducive to al- allow legitimate
legal activities with firearms, well, you

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know, Dave just kind of seized the day
and said, "I'm just going to pick this

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apart and provide a guide forward on it."

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Well, Dave's actions there are what,
uh, encouraged me and kind of inspired

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me on the authorization to carry one.

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I- Yeah … I said, "Well, if he can
do that with the ATT, why can't I do

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something like that with the authorization
to carry and work together with you guys

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at the NFA and Rachel Attilla there and-

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Yeah

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uh, helped her through her
process of getting her ATC and

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created a complete template.

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And I should say we'll put links
in the description if people

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wanna download the template.

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I've actually made an up-to-date
one, which accounts for a few

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changes that have come through.

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Yes.

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So they can, they can see the work that
we put in in order to, uh, normalize

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that process, but it also touches on,
'cause I'll bring it up a little later

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as well, it touches on the, the handgun
freeze and the ability for people to

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still be able to purchase handguns.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Uh, you know, a lot of people look
at these bureaucracies, and they go,

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"It's just monolithic. Um, they don't
communicate. Uh, there's not a lot of

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transparency," and they just give up.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right?

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And that's the wrong thing to do.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay?

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Uh- Firearms laws change, okay?

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The situation we have today
is not gonna last forever.

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Eventually we'll elect a new government,
and there'll be more firearms law reform.

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But in the meantime, what do you do?

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You have to pick apart the, uh, leg-
uh, the legislation, the regulations.

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You have to find ways of navigating
that bureaucracy to engage in…

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And, and i- a lot of times they
don't see it as legitimate.

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They, they certainly don't see,
uh, authorization to carry as a

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legitimate, uh, pursuit with firearms
even though it does exist in the

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firearms act and, and can be issued.

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They want to discourage
people from doing it.

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And by they, you mean
the firearms program.

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The firearms program.

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And I know this 'cause they've
told me that to my face.

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E- exactly.

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So.

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It's, it's like we do not want a
lot of these in circulation because

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guns are bad, and handguns are
worse than everything else, and why

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don't you just carry a long gun.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Because, uh, and it gets into things
like they wanna denormalize the, uh,

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possession and use of handguns in
Canada, the lawful possession and use.

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Mm-hmm.

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I mean, the, uh, criminal, uh,
misuse, uh, well, they don't

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really care about that a lot.

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You

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know.

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Yeah, like what's actually happening,
th- like that's a whole topic in itself.

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Oh, isn't

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it?

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Yeah.

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But I mean, part of this is preaching to
the choir because, uh, uh, when I look

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at our demographic that we deal with,
hunting, firearms, outdoor activities, but

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we also reach people all over the world.

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Right.

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Uh, UK is number three for downloads for
us, and- Hmm … they, they've got their

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own issues that they're dealing with.

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Yeah.

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Uh, Sweden I think is number four.

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Um, i- interesting the, the wide
reach that this podcast has, as

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well as people who've never been
interested in firearms before.

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Yeah.

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So when I'm going through, and I've,
I've put a bunch of questions and stuff

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together, w- I'm gonna try and talk as
if not only the choir they know, like

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the, our government's enacting laws to
limit legal firearms owners- ownership.

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Yeah.

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The keyword there being legal.

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Uh, and they're not taking steps to
actually address the root causes of

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criminality and violence, and all the,
all the rest, but I'm gonna talk to the

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non-initiated as well so that they've got
a little bit of, uh, uh, better insight.

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Yeah.

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And, and it's something that we
don't really, or, or haven't talked

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about certainly in the past, uh, is
the culture of firearms in Canada.

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Yeah.

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And we do have a, a gun culture.

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Yeah, we do.

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And it's a very strong and a very
proud gun culture, and it's, uh, a

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culture based on safety and respect,
and all of those good things.

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But it has been abused and, uh, manhandled
by successive governments in Ottawa that

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frankly have an i- ideological agenda.

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Right.

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Uh, there's just no other way to say it.

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Um, uh, as a community,
we are organized now.

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Uh, we are organized politically.

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Yeah.

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Uh, we have a road ahead.

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We have pathways to correct
what the liberals are doing.

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But- You really have to stand up for that.

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And I, I, I remember in the early days,
a lot of, you know, uh, guys, guys of

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our fathers' generation didn't wanna
do that because, you know, they took a

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look at, uh, the political situation in
the excited states and kinda decided,

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"Well, you know, why- we'll just, uh,
we'll just cooperate and c- compromise.

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And yeah- Yeah … I mean, some
of these regulations are a little

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bit, uh, are, are, are a little bit
frustrating, but, uh, you know, if

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it, if it's for public safety, it's,
it's worth doing." Look what happened.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay?

232
00:10:44,014 --> 00:10:48,084
So it's, uh, is very, very important
that we continue to be politically

233
00:10:48,084 --> 00:10:51,943
active, uh, politically present,
um, not only in Ottawa, in the

234
00:10:51,943 --> 00:10:56,263
provinces, but, uh, standing up
for this very, very proud culture.

235
00:10:56,333 --> 00:10:59,613
I mean, we have nothing,
uh, to apologize for.

236
00:10:59,633 --> 00:11:02,213
We are the best kind of Canadians.

237
00:11:02,454 --> 00:11:02,823
All right?

238
00:11:03,193 --> 00:11:06,513
When I look at it, and I'll play
devil's advocate, okay, so we have some

239
00:11:06,513 --> 00:11:13,473
people who, uh, know firearms, collect
firearms, use firearms, and they've,

240
00:11:13,693 --> 00:11:16,294
they've got a good grasp on what that
culture's like and what it all looks like.

241
00:11:16,703 --> 00:11:20,993
We've got people out there who maybe they
were negatively affected by firearms-

242
00:11:21,173 --> 00:11:24,933
Of course … and crime and whatever it
might be, and they're vehemently opposed.

243
00:11:24,933 --> 00:11:26,343
And so we've got these two sides.

244
00:11:26,344 --> 00:11:30,333
But the vast, vast majority of people
out there, th- they're neither here

245
00:11:30,333 --> 00:11:33,293
nor there, and they- Yes … they
look at this, and they say, "Well,

246
00:11:33,323 --> 00:11:35,144
why does anyone need a firearm?"

247
00:11:35,153 --> 00:11:35,183
Sure.

248
00:11:35,193 --> 00:11:38,533
And they say, "Yeah, okay. That- I
guess that makes sense. If we ban

249
00:11:38,533 --> 00:11:41,604
these guns, then there's gonna be
no more, no more gun crimes, right?"

250
00:11:41,733 --> 00:11:44,053
Well, there's not a lot of,
lot out of them out there.

251
00:11:44,053 --> 00:11:45,603
I don't know anybody who owns a gun.

252
00:11:45,673 --> 00:11:49,233
Uh, there are people like that who,
who don't have a, a cultural reference-

253
00:11:49,423 --> 00:11:49,433
Hmm

254
00:11:49,733 --> 00:11:56,643
for it and sorta see guns as a, a, a bad
thing, um, you know, based on, uh, their

255
00:11:56,643 --> 00:12:00,884
opinions, uh, a lot of them mistaken,
uh, about the situation in the United

256
00:12:00,884 --> 00:12:03,403
States, and they base it off of that.

257
00:12:03,414 --> 00:12:03,434
Yeah.

258
00:12:03,493 --> 00:12:07,813
Um, you know, as far as, you know,
affected neg- negatively, uh,

259
00:12:07,844 --> 00:12:09,563
there's, there's not a lot of people.

260
00:12:09,594 --> 00:12:12,624
Uh, of course, as you know, gun
crime in Canada, uh, certainly

261
00:12:12,624 --> 00:12:14,444
in the past was, uh, very low.

262
00:12:14,844 --> 00:12:16,534
We had a very, very safe society.

263
00:12:17,043 --> 00:12:20,773
Uh, firearms, uh, were not generally
used in crime, and when they

264
00:12:20,774 --> 00:12:24,723
were, uh, the perpetrators, uh,
got very, very stiff sentences-

265
00:12:24,743 --> 00:12:24,983
Hmm

266
00:12:25,254 --> 00:12:27,644
…
because of the presence
of the gun in the offense.

267
00:12:27,723 --> 00:12:33,823
Now, all of that in the last, I wanna
say 40 years progressively has changed,

268
00:12:33,844 --> 00:12:37,773
where, uh, although the, uh, use of
the firearm is used negatively, the

269
00:12:37,773 --> 00:12:39,973
sentencing no longer reflects it.

270
00:12:40,183 --> 00:12:40,283
Hmm.

271
00:12:40,284 --> 00:12:40,704
Okay?

272
00:12:41,073 --> 00:12:43,273
Gun charges are among the
first that are dropped.

273
00:12:43,344 --> 00:12:47,353
I mean, you talk about people who've been,
uh, negatively affected by firearms, and,

274
00:12:47,373 --> 00:12:49,263
and I can understand that because I have.

275
00:12:49,394 --> 00:12:49,643
Mm-hmm.

276
00:12:49,653 --> 00:12:50,063
Okay?

277
00:12:50,113 --> 00:12:52,163
I mean, I've been through
two armed robberies.

278
00:12:52,303 --> 00:12:52,773
Hmm.

279
00:12:52,823 --> 00:12:53,203
Okay?

280
00:12:53,204 --> 00:12:53,974
And they're not fun.

281
00:12:54,323 --> 00:12:55,044
Tell me about that.

282
00:12:55,915 --> 00:12:59,396
Like that just is a completely different,
I know this is an ADHD tangent, but I'm

283
00:12:59,396 --> 00:13:00,866
curious about these armed robberies.

284
00:13:00,976 --> 00:13:01,466
Oh, really?

285
00:13:01,496 --> 00:13:01,996
Oh, okay.

286
00:13:02,006 --> 00:13:02,055
Yeah.

287
00:13:02,055 --> 00:13:07,776
I mean, yeah, no, uh, two, yeah, two armed
robberies, uh, uh, my, you know, through

288
00:13:07,776 --> 00:13:09,526
my employer, uh, Lever Arm Service-

289
00:13:09,815 --> 00:13:09,995
Mm-hmm

290
00:13:10,036 --> 00:13:13,606
…
in Vancouver, which, uh, yeah,
uh, I, I think most people would

291
00:13:13,616 --> 00:13:17,335
be, uh, familiar with, uh, c- uh,
Vancouver's longest standing gun store.

292
00:13:17,345 --> 00:13:17,875
Mm-hmm.

293
00:13:18,376 --> 00:13:24,746
And, uh, yeah, um, very, very close
to downtown Vancouver, and, uh,

294
00:13:24,746 --> 00:13:26,735
this is going back, uh, a few years.

295
00:13:26,745 --> 00:13:31,935
But, uh, uh, the first one, um, a
couple of guys come into the, uh,

296
00:13:31,935 --> 00:13:38,635
store expressing interest in looking
at guns, and, uh, demonstrate the guns.

297
00:13:38,636 --> 00:13:43,596
One, his buddy walks out, walks back in,
takes a, uh, takes a pistol out his coat,

298
00:13:43,706 --> 00:13:44,985
out of his coat and points it at me.

299
00:13:45,325 --> 00:13:45,685
Hmm.

300
00:13:46,195 --> 00:13:48,116
So anyways, uh, that's frightening.

301
00:13:48,305 --> 00:13:51,786
So tell, tell me this, you know
firearms, you've seen firearms.

302
00:13:51,786 --> 00:13:52,125
Yes.

303
00:13:52,175 --> 00:13:55,135
When you got one stuck in your
face like that, are you looking

304
00:13:55,136 --> 00:13:56,175
at it saying, "Is that real?

305
00:13:56,175 --> 00:13:58,775
Is it not real?" Or are you just
like, "Okay, we're just gonna assume

306
00:13:58,775 --> 00:13:59,985
this thing's real, and here we go."

307
00:14:00,115 --> 00:14:03,976
Well, that's exactly it, and that has an
impact on the second story I'll tell you.

308
00:14:03,976 --> 00:14:04,305
Okay.

309
00:14:04,625 --> 00:14:06,615
But, uh, takes it out of his waistband.

310
00:14:06,945 --> 00:14:07,885
I recognize it.

311
00:14:07,896 --> 00:14:09,915
It's a, it's a Chinese Tokarev handgun.

312
00:14:09,926 --> 00:14:09,946
Yeah.

313
00:14:10,055 --> 00:14:11,465
So what do I do?

314
00:14:11,466 --> 00:14:12,195
What do I do?

315
00:14:12,295 --> 00:14:15,275
Uh, first thing I do, I throw up
my hands and I start backing up.

316
00:14:15,445 --> 00:14:15,945
Mm-hmm.

317
00:14:16,155 --> 00:14:19,506
And I'm backing up, and everybody else in
the store is like, "What's Blair doing?"

318
00:14:19,655 --> 00:14:19,755
Yeah.

319
00:14:19,895 --> 00:14:20,806
"
Why is he doing that?

320
00:14:21,275 --> 00:14:25,095
What's going on?" I back up,
I back right out of the store.

321
00:14:25,895 --> 00:14:29,575
Uh, they, uh, they get frightened
and they, uh, take off.

322
00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:30,396
Okay.

323
00:14:30,895 --> 00:14:35,795
So luckily that ended, you know, that
particular, uh, that particular episode.

324
00:14:36,215 --> 00:14:42,718
Uh, the second one, um- I'm standing
at the, uh, the till, and, uh, if you,

325
00:14:42,758 --> 00:14:46,108
you were, if you were familiar with
Lever Arms in Vancouver, it was not

326
00:14:46,208 --> 00:14:49,258
set up like your typical gun store.

327
00:14:49,518 --> 00:14:49,798
Right.

328
00:14:49,817 --> 00:14:50,307
Okay?

329
00:14:50,378 --> 00:14:50,758
Right.

330
00:14:50,908 --> 00:14:51,338
Yes.

331
00:14:51,418 --> 00:14:55,488
And it, uh, it was kind of an odd
little store, uh, in a basement in a

332
00:14:55,488 --> 00:14:59,938
building in Vancouver, and, uh, th-
there was an entrance, the front,

333
00:14:59,967 --> 00:15:01,547
front entrance, which was blind.

334
00:15:01,688 --> 00:15:07,207
I mean, if, uh, i- if, uh, w- w- a l- a
window was later put in so you could see

335
00:15:07,207 --> 00:15:08,418
p- people coming- Right … and going out.

336
00:15:08,838 --> 00:15:12,018
But there was also a motion detector
and bell to announce people coming in.

337
00:15:12,477 --> 00:15:16,367
So you would walk into the store,
and it would announce you, bing bong,

338
00:15:16,587 --> 00:15:19,538
and you could, uh, the staff could
look up and see who was coming in.

339
00:15:19,548 --> 00:15:25,347
So I'm standing at the till, and, uh,
hear the bell, bing bong, and I see a

340
00:15:25,348 --> 00:15:27,597
character coming in through the entrance.

341
00:15:28,438 --> 00:15:33,377
Uh, hands, uh, a full hoodie, hoodie
over his head and face, hands in

342
00:15:33,377 --> 00:15:37,968
his pockets, and then, uh, my,
uh, my spidey senses kinda go up.

343
00:15:37,968 --> 00:15:38,407
Yes.

344
00:15:39,147 --> 00:15:40,627
This, there's something going on here.

345
00:15:41,057 --> 00:15:41,257
Yes.

346
00:15:41,328 --> 00:15:43,838
And I, so I start moving, you know?

347
00:15:44,158 --> 00:15:44,518
Yeah.

348
00:15:44,578 --> 00:15:45,517
And, uh- As

349
00:15:45,518 --> 00:15:45,988
one should

350
00:15:46,037 --> 00:15:46,947
…
as one should.

351
00:15:47,018 --> 00:15:51,797
And, uh, very shortly afterwards,
two other guys come in, and

352
00:15:52,357 --> 00:15:53,647
one of them's got a Sten gun.

353
00:15:55,037 --> 00:15:55,828
A Sten gun?

354
00:15:56,067 --> 00:15:56,427
Yeah.

355
00:15:57,106 --> 00:15:57,366
Okay.

356
00:15:57,976 --> 00:16:00,496
So for people who don't know
what a Sten gun is, these, these

357
00:16:00,496 --> 00:16:03,815
aren't items that have been
captured by the recent prohibition.

358
00:16:03,826 --> 00:16:03,846
No.

359
00:16:04,096 --> 00:16:07,076
These are things that have been
prohibited for a very long time.

360
00:16:07,096 --> 00:16:08,746
Very, very long time.

361
00:16:08,756 --> 00:16:11,045
And you were saying, I mean, is,
uh, you know, what do you think?

362
00:16:11,045 --> 00:16:12,406
Is this thing real or not, right?

363
00:16:12,845 --> 00:16:13,015
Mm-hmm.

364
00:16:13,045 --> 00:16:16,435
And, uh, as we all know, there's,
uh, there's a lot of, uh,

365
00:16:16,435 --> 00:16:17,865
de-watted Sten guns out there.

366
00:16:17,865 --> 00:16:18,175
Sure.

367
00:16:18,225 --> 00:16:22,616
And, uh, but the fact of the
matter is, it's not that hard.

368
00:16:22,766 --> 00:16:24,935
I've seen de-watted Sten guns that fire.

369
00:16:25,315 --> 00:16:26,526
Yes, I'm sure you have.

370
00:16:26,685 --> 00:16:26,995
Mm.

371
00:16:27,006 --> 00:16:28,795
So have I. Mm-hmm.

372
00:16:28,795 --> 00:16:31,755
So, uh, what the fact of the
matter is, uh, what do you do?

373
00:16:31,756 --> 00:16:34,815
I mean, you a- assume that
this is not real and not live,

374
00:16:35,256 --> 00:16:36,266
go up and take it off him?

375
00:16:36,326 --> 00:16:38,135
No, I'm not going to do that.

376
00:16:38,145 --> 00:16:38,165
Mm-hmm.

377
00:16:38,165 --> 00:16:44,585
So again, I'm moving, and a Sten
guy, a Sten gun guy comes in and,

378
00:16:44,605 --> 00:16:45,925
and covers the rest of the staff.

379
00:16:45,956 --> 00:16:49,205
I'm in the back by this
time, uh, calling 911.

380
00:16:49,355 --> 00:16:50,385
Mm-hmm.

381
00:16:50,385 --> 00:16:52,896
So, you know-

382
00:16:52,965 --> 00:16:55,805
What a, what a difference between
Canadian and American gun stores,

383
00:16:55,986 --> 00:16:58,195
because American gun stores
might be a little bit different.

384
00:16:58,465 --> 00:16:59,425
Well, exactly.

385
00:16:59,445 --> 00:17:04,435
And, uh, i- i- and after those two
incidents, I, I, I, you know, um,

386
00:17:05,366 --> 00:17:09,006
uh, you know, I explored getting
a, a authorization to carry- Right

387
00:17:09,006 --> 00:17:10,385
but of course, you know, I was refused.

388
00:17:10,385 --> 00:17:13,586
It's like, "You know, you don't need
this." And it's a similar experience

389
00:17:13,586 --> 00:17:17,545
for other stores in Canada, and it
really, really, uh, it, it, it, it

390
00:17:17,546 --> 00:17:21,725
confused me because you're in a store
that's full of guns, ammo, and cash.

391
00:17:21,735 --> 00:17:22,265
Mm-hmm.

392
00:17:22,465 --> 00:17:25,995
And you're not supposed to… And,
and, and not only, you know, your

393
00:17:25,995 --> 00:17:30,195
lives too, because, you know, uh,
uh, uh, perpetrators and criminals

394
00:17:30,215 --> 00:17:32,605
will assume, well, I mean, you know,
we're gonna knock over a gun store,

395
00:17:32,875 --> 00:17:34,605
obviously those guys are gonna be armed.

396
00:17:35,205 --> 00:17:39,255
And unfortunately, uh, you're disarmed
by, uh, by bure- bureaucratic decree.

397
00:17:39,805 --> 00:17:43,445
Did I ever tell you about the time
that, uh, and I was helping out Hunter's

398
00:17:43,445 --> 00:17:46,015
Sporting Goods back in the day when
Hunter's Sporting Goods was around?

399
00:17:46,065 --> 00:17:46,275
Yeah.

400
00:17:46,315 --> 00:17:50,345
And, uh, uh, they were looking
to get authorizations to carry,

401
00:17:50,366 --> 00:17:52,475
and we went through the process.

402
00:17:53,046 --> 00:17:57,385
From my perspective, I think a gun store
can get it, and there are provisions

403
00:17:57,385 --> 00:18:01,692
in the, um- Firearms Act, regulations,
criminal code that, that allow for this.

404
00:18:01,702 --> 00:18:02,062
Sure.

405
00:18:02,132 --> 00:18:06,792
Um, but it gets onerous after a certain
point, and people say, "Well, geez, I

406
00:18:06,792 --> 00:18:09,742
got, I got work to do, or do I just keep
fighting this thing further and further?"

407
00:18:09,961 --> 00:18:10,251
Right.

408
00:18:10,272 --> 00:18:15,521
But, um, they were told that they were
the closest to ever having been issued

409
00:18:15,522 --> 00:18:16,751
an authorization- Mm … to carry.

410
00:18:17,182 --> 00:18:20,172
The last hurdle that they were
given, 'cause they met every single

411
00:18:20,172 --> 00:18:24,361
hurdle- Mm … was you have to get
a letter from the chief of police

412
00:18:24,372 --> 00:18:29,712
from your area saying that, um,
police protection is not adequate.

413
00:18:29,891 --> 00:18:32,281
And they said not from a police officer,
but it has to be from the chief, and

414
00:18:32,281 --> 00:18:34,881
the chief has to say police- Right
… protection isn't adequate in their area.

415
00:18:35,191 --> 00:18:38,232
And there's no chief that's gonna
turn around and say, "Oh yeah, by the

416
00:18:38,232 --> 00:18:42,241
way, we- we're just not adequate to
be able to, uh, to assist you." At

417
00:18:42,242 --> 00:18:43,742
least no chief that I've seen up here.

418
00:18:43,742 --> 00:18:48,172
I've seen video clips of some, uh,
chiefs and sheriffs in the States

419
00:18:48,172 --> 00:18:49,381
that have no problem saying that.

420
00:18:49,391 --> 00:18:49,541
Sure.

421
00:18:49,542 --> 00:18:51,672
"When seconds count, the
police are minutes away." But-

422
00:18:52,032 --> 00:18:55,422
E- ex- exactly, so, uh, it's prevented
by a bureaucratic de- uh, decree.

423
00:18:55,432 --> 00:18:55,921
Mm-hmm.

424
00:18:55,991 --> 00:18:58,931
And it's similar in the cases
of individual ATCs as well.

425
00:18:58,932 --> 00:19:01,732
I mean, unless there's an active
police file and the police have, have

426
00:19:01,732 --> 00:19:05,642
signed off saying that, "No, we can't
provide adequate protection for this

427
00:19:05,642 --> 00:19:08,211
individual," then you're not getting it.

428
00:19:08,211 --> 00:19:08,441
Yeah.

429
00:19:08,441 --> 00:19:12,071
And even if you do get it, and, uh,
I'd be very surprised if there's

430
00:19:12,081 --> 00:19:14,222
any active ATCs in Canada right now.

431
00:19:14,681 --> 00:19:15,981
But, uh, no, it's just- Active

432
00:19:15,992 --> 00:19:16,682
for-

433
00:19:16,971 --> 00:19:20,321
Uh, individuals, uh- I see … yeah,
and certainly not for business.

434
00:19:20,331 --> 00:19:21,402
For protection of life.

435
00:19:21,702 --> 00:19:22,181
That's right.

436
00:19:22,181 --> 00:19:22,918
For protect- protection of life.

437
00:19:22,918 --> 00:19:23,041
A-

438
00:19:23,041 --> 00:19:26,841
as opposed to you're working a remote
area, or your primary activity is

439
00:19:26,841 --> 00:19:28,401
the transport of cash or negotiables.

440
00:19:28,441 --> 00:19:29,281
That's right, yeah.

441
00:19:29,742 --> 00:19:34,631
So, um, it, it… and it's done that
way by design because, uh, they, they

442
00:19:34,632 --> 00:19:39,321
will accept, uh, that, yes, there
are some instances, very, very few

443
00:19:39,871 --> 00:19:43,872
and, uh, very, very narrow, where an
individual may have to carry a handgun.

444
00:19:43,882 --> 00:19:43,912
Right.

445
00:19:43,922 --> 00:19:46,882
We do not want this to spread
because it, again, it's the boogeyman

446
00:19:46,882 --> 00:19:49,102
of the United States, you know?

447
00:19:49,321 --> 00:19:54,181
And, uh, unfortunately, uh, k- there
are states in the United States

448
00:19:54,272 --> 00:19:56,711
that are more safe than Canada-

449
00:19:56,791 --> 00:19:57,111
Mm

450
00:19:57,171 --> 00:19:59,392
…
because of the presence
of armed individuals.

451
00:19:59,481 --> 00:20:02,591
Uh, but of course, it gets into
a cultural thing, you know, good

452
00:20:02,591 --> 00:20:04,671
old-fashioned Canadian parochialism.

453
00:20:04,702 --> 00:20:06,501
You know, we, we do things different here.

454
00:20:06,501 --> 00:20:07,681
We have a safer society.

455
00:20:07,952 --> 00:20:09,151
Well, I'll tell you what, we don't.

456
00:20:09,722 --> 00:20:15,592
Uh, our society is just as, uh, as
violent, uh, as, uh, places in the

457
00:20:15,592 --> 00:20:18,591
United States, but, uh, the fact
is there's just fewer Canadians.

458
00:20:19,301 --> 00:20:24,432
So there's gonna be people, 'cause I
hear it often, "What can I do?" Right?

459
00:20:24,432 --> 00:20:24,821
Yeah.

460
00:20:24,821 --> 00:20:25,761
"What, what can I do?

461
00:20:25,782 --> 00:20:26,851
I'm not Blair.

462
00:20:26,862 --> 00:20:27,912
I don't have his knowledge.

463
00:20:27,912 --> 00:20:29,332
I don't have his background.

464
00:20:29,341 --> 00:20:33,001
Of course Blair can do it, but- … but
what, what can I do?" Right?

465
00:20:33,191 --> 00:20:38,011
So can you tell me a little bit about
your background and temperament, and,

466
00:20:38,011 --> 00:20:43,674
uh, how- How you use that to do what
you do, and maybe some of the toll

467
00:20:43,674 --> 00:20:47,194
that takes on you, because you fighting
for 30 years, fighting, fighting.

468
00:20:47,244 --> 00:20:48,934
It's- Yeah … it takes a toll.

469
00:20:49,754 --> 00:20:50,334
Well, sure.

470
00:20:50,384 --> 00:20:53,284
Um, well, I mean, I was like anybody else.

471
00:20:53,284 --> 00:20:56,484
I mean, you know, I had a basic…
When I got started, I had a basic

472
00:20:56,484 --> 00:20:57,874
understanding of firearms, sure.

473
00:20:57,884 --> 00:21:00,304
I mean, you know, from my, my
family, that sort of thing,

474
00:21:00,324 --> 00:21:01,674
I was familiar with firearms.

475
00:21:01,724 --> 00:21:05,954
Mm. But, uh, not so much familiar
with firearms law, uh, legislation,

476
00:21:05,974 --> 00:21:07,133
and definitely politics.

477
00:21:07,703 --> 00:21:12,303
And of course back in the early '90s,
uh, maybe some people w- will, uh,

478
00:21:12,314 --> 00:21:16,134
remember the political situation
then, but, uh, uh, I, I know people

479
00:21:16,143 --> 00:21:19,314
are despondent now because of the
political situation in Canada, but

480
00:21:19,323 --> 00:21:21,173
in the early 1990s it was even worse.

481
00:21:21,233 --> 00:21:21,693
Mm-hmm.

482
00:21:21,703 --> 00:21:22,083
Okay?

483
00:21:22,084 --> 00:21:27,563
Because both, uh, all the major
political parties, uh, were anti-gun.

484
00:21:27,573 --> 00:21:28,253
Mm-hmm.

485
00:21:28,393 --> 00:21:28,813
Okay?

486
00:21:29,023 --> 00:21:33,373
The progressive conservatives,
the liberals, the NDP, they were

487
00:21:33,433 --> 00:21:38,704
all anti-gun, and we didn't have
a lot of, uh, choices in the type

488
00:21:38,704 --> 00:21:40,183
of political action we could take.

489
00:21:40,843 --> 00:21:44,783
Then, uh, obviously you had the
coming of the Reform Party, uh, the,

490
00:21:44,783 --> 00:21:47,734
uh, dissolution of the Progressive
Conservative Party, and of course the

491
00:21:47,734 --> 00:21:51,263
whole conservative movement in Canada
changed, and it changed for the better,

492
00:21:51,394 --> 00:21:53,353
uh, especially in terms of firearms.

493
00:21:53,394 --> 00:21:58,614
And, uh, a lot of individuals, uh,
especially in National Farms Association,

494
00:21:58,614 --> 00:22:02,313
but, you know, other individuals, other
organizations, made a very, very big

495
00:22:02,323 --> 00:22:07,093
investment in that, uh, to the point
today where we have a major political

496
00:22:07,093 --> 00:22:12,044
party, mainstream political party, that is
supportive of, uh, the Canadian right and

497
00:22:12,044 --> 00:22:13,673
cultural tradition of firearms ownership.

498
00:22:13,793 --> 00:22:13,914
Mm-hmm.

499
00:22:13,924 --> 00:22:17,913
And if you don't have that, because
i- if you look at other countries

500
00:22:17,924 --> 00:22:21,713
in the world, um, you're not gonna
be able to make any headway in

501
00:22:21,714 --> 00:22:23,273
protecting your rights and freedoms.

502
00:22:23,384 --> 00:22:29,113
Uh, if you look at, you know, places like
Australia, UK, um, that have suffered very

503
00:22:29,113 --> 00:22:33,164
greatly, it's because, uh, the mainstream
political parties would not take this

504
00:22:33,164 --> 00:22:36,053
up as, uh, a part of their policy.

505
00:22:36,073 --> 00:22:36,544
Mm-hmm.

506
00:22:36,583 --> 00:22:38,313
We understand this to be your right.

507
00:22:38,354 --> 00:22:41,403
We understand this to be a le- legitimate
part of Canadian cultur- culture.

508
00:22:41,403 --> 00:22:44,483
And that's the Conservative Party today.

509
00:22:44,623 --> 00:22:45,033
Mm-hmm.

510
00:22:45,043 --> 00:22:51,023
And it's been a very long, hard fight to
do that, uh, to correct the, the attitudes

511
00:22:51,023 --> 00:22:55,643
of the old Progressive Conservative
Party of 30, 40 years ago, uh, which

512
00:22:55,644 --> 00:22:59,393
tolerated firearms ownership, but, uh,
was not, certainly not in favor of it

513
00:22:59,403 --> 00:23:03,764
and did not want to, uh, protect, uh,
uh, gun rights in Canada, to a point

514
00:23:03,784 --> 00:23:07,413
now where we have a major political
party, uh, that has formed government,

515
00:23:07,424 --> 00:23:11,853
has introduced firearms law reform,
and, uh, I believe will do so again.

516
00:23:12,494 --> 00:23:15,593
You know, politicians, they always
say either first job's to get elected,

517
00:23:15,603 --> 00:23:17,374
second job's to stay elected, right?

518
00:23:17,404 --> 00:23:17,613
Yeah.

519
00:23:17,904 --> 00:23:20,944
Uh, I see firearms used
mostly as a wedge issue.

520
00:23:20,954 --> 00:23:20,984
Sure.

521
00:23:21,404 --> 00:23:25,583
"Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna, uh,
ban all of these guns, and, but our

522
00:23:25,583 --> 00:23:29,664
opponents here, they wanna see everybody
walking around with an AK-47- Yeah

523
00:23:29,664 --> 00:23:34,073
and driving around 24/7 with guns in their
glove box." And, and, and it's all lies.

524
00:23:34,083 --> 00:23:36,913
It's all, it's all-
Yeah … political theater, right?

525
00:23:36,943 --> 00:23:38,434
Abso- ab- absolutely.

526
00:23:38,813 --> 00:23:40,434
Uh, uh, a lot of it's deliberate.

527
00:23:40,504 --> 00:23:43,563
A lot of it's- Sure … a lot of it's
based on ignorance, because there, there

528
00:23:43,573 --> 00:23:49,333
is a lot of ignorance about firearms, and,
uh, the problem is, um, certainly those,

529
00:23:49,724 --> 00:23:54,494
uh, in Ottawa and elsewhere who would,
uh, disarm us are proud of that ignorance.

530
00:23:54,854 --> 00:24:00,173
I think, so when you say ignorance,
my, my take on that is ignorance from

531
00:24:00,174 --> 00:24:04,833
the populous about firearms, I don't
necessarily think parties that are

532
00:24:04,833 --> 00:24:08,923
trying to ban guns are themselves
ignorant, because they've gotten

533
00:24:08,924 --> 00:24:11,643
to a certain level, and at the very
least they have certain advisors.

534
00:24:11,663 --> 00:24:12,313
I think they know- Yes

535
00:24:12,313 --> 00:24:17,113
full well what they're doing, and the
efficacy of a ban towards curbing,

536
00:24:17,123 --> 00:24:22,614
let's say, violence or things that
are stemmed from poverty and from, uh,

537
00:24:22,623 --> 00:24:26,984
socio, uh, demographic- Yeah … kind
of issues, and ec- economics.

538
00:24:26,984 --> 00:24:32,023
And I think the, uh, they rely
on the ignorance of the public

539
00:24:32,674 --> 00:24:36,114
and are being intentionally
manipulative of that information.

540
00:24:36,133 --> 00:24:36,843
Well, e- sure.

541
00:24:36,843 --> 00:24:38,363
The advisors do know that.

542
00:24:38,443 --> 00:24:38,643
Sure.

543
00:24:38,644 --> 00:24:39,034
Okay?

544
00:24:39,034 --> 00:24:43,243
And there is a cadre, uh, in the Canadian
government, uh, in the bureaucracies,

545
00:24:43,244 --> 00:24:46,563
the various ministries, that do want
to see a disarmed count- uh, country,

546
00:24:46,563 --> 00:24:50,144
and, uh, it's always been there, okay?

547
00:24:50,144 --> 00:24:57,103
And they will, uh, use whatever government
that is in power to pursue that agenda.

548
00:24:57,193 --> 00:25:01,734
Uh, if it's a, a, a, a more right-leaning
government, while you're not going to, uh,

549
00:25:02,073 --> 00:25:05,473
uh, get as much, uh, of your agenda done.

550
00:25:05,553 --> 00:25:08,783
But, uh, even under the Harper
government, there were firearms bans

551
00:25:08,784 --> 00:25:11,473
and confiscations- Mm-hmm … and
people seem to forget about that.

552
00:25:11,483 --> 00:25:11,733
Mm-hmm.

553
00:25:11,753 --> 00:25:15,103
They were very, very limited
in scale, very, very small in

554
00:25:15,104 --> 00:25:18,006
scope- But, uh, it happened.

555
00:25:18,006 --> 00:25:20,116
So it wasn't all good news.

556
00:25:20,126 --> 00:25:20,576
Mm-hmm.

557
00:25:20,666 --> 00:25:25,445
I mean, yes, the long gun registry was
ended, and that was the 800-pound gorilla.

558
00:25:25,746 --> 00:25:25,886
Mm.

559
00:25:25,965 --> 00:25:31,026
Um, but… And other reforms achieved,
uh, before they, uh, th- they lost power.

560
00:25:31,335 --> 00:25:35,735
But, uh, that bureaucracy did, uh,
continue to target firearms owners,

561
00:25:35,936 --> 00:25:39,835
uh, did continue to target their
property, and yes, people lost guns.

562
00:25:39,835 --> 00:25:44,125
I mean, it wasn't on the scale that we're-
we're seeing today, but it did happen.

563
00:25:44,215 --> 00:25:44,916
Uh- Yeah … so.

564
00:25:45,026 --> 00:25:48,305
I think that word that you just said
there, property, I think that's the

565
00:25:48,305 --> 00:25:52,065
one that segues from the people who
are like, "Why are you taking my

566
00:25:52,066 --> 00:25:54,376
guns? It's a legitimate thing. We
have a gun culture- Yeah … and all

567
00:25:54,376 --> 00:25:58,686
the rest," that expands to people who
have no interest, have never touched

568
00:25:58,686 --> 00:25:59,916
a gun, don't know anyone who has one.

569
00:26:00,465 --> 00:26:04,306
If they can do that to you
so easily, what's next?

570
00:26:04,306 --> 00:26:05,885
What they can th- what can they do to me?

571
00:26:05,886 --> 00:26:08,776
And I think that's why these parties
are starting to take it up, 'cause

572
00:26:08,776 --> 00:26:13,235
they realize, okay, hold on a
second, the end outcome of this,

573
00:26:13,796 --> 00:26:17,865
these bans and confiscations based
off of fear- Yeah … and political

574
00:26:17,866 --> 00:26:22,955
posturing, not evidence-based,
um, but hey, it's working for us.

575
00:26:22,965 --> 00:26:26,035
What's the next thing that we can do
out of fear and political posturing

576
00:26:26,035 --> 00:26:30,115
to, uh, which might deprive other
individuals of their property?

577
00:26:30,406 --> 00:26:31,055
A- a- absolutely.

578
00:26:31,055 --> 00:26:31,535
And rights.

579
00:26:31,535 --> 00:26:34,776
And, and, and I, I think you
see that more so to- today.

580
00:26:34,785 --> 00:26:37,145
Mm. Um, because it's not just guns.

581
00:26:37,145 --> 00:26:42,305
I mean, uh, especially here in BC, I
mean, we have a lot of, uh, uh, people,

582
00:26:42,305 --> 00:26:47,025
property owners who are, are, are very,
very frightened and frustrated, uh, you

583
00:26:47,025 --> 00:26:49,306
know, over, uh, l- land claims issues.

584
00:26:49,315 --> 00:26:49,665
Sure.

585
00:26:49,976 --> 00:26:53,285
It, it's like, uh, if the government…
you know, a, a court decision comes

586
00:26:53,285 --> 00:26:55,885
down and it's like, "Well, no, you
don't own this, your property."

587
00:26:56,215 --> 00:27:00,295
"Well, I've been paying a mortgage on
it for 30 years." "Well, so sorry."

588
00:27:00,375 --> 00:27:00,755
Yeah.

589
00:27:00,815 --> 00:27:06,865
Um, and then you add into things like
massive, uh, gun bans and attempted,

590
00:27:06,915 --> 00:27:12,745
uh, confiscations, yeah, people are,
I was gonna say starting to wake

591
00:27:12,745 --> 00:27:15,775
up, but I think people have woken
up to, uh, the very real threats.

592
00:27:15,796 --> 00:27:17,445
And it's the scale that it takes place on.

593
00:27:17,445 --> 00:27:20,525
If it's just affecting someone else
or, you know, this little group

594
00:27:20,525 --> 00:27:24,776
here or that little group there,
um, people can tend to ignore that.

595
00:27:24,806 --> 00:27:29,686
Mm. But when you're looking at,
uh, for example, with, uh, uh, the

596
00:27:29,686 --> 00:27:34,155
current gun grab, we're, we're, we're
talking about hundreds of thousands,

597
00:27:34,185 --> 00:27:35,866
if not millions, of firearms.

598
00:27:35,925 --> 00:27:36,275
Mm.

599
00:27:36,416 --> 00:27:36,886
Okay?

600
00:27:37,136 --> 00:27:39,486
And that affects a lot of people.

601
00:27:39,955 --> 00:27:41,755
I know the government
downplays the numbers.

602
00:27:41,785 --> 00:27:45,865
Uh, they did the same thing with long
gun registry, but, uh, they downplay the

603
00:27:45,866 --> 00:27:49,676
numbers and, uh, certainly, uh, in terms
of the compliance that they got and, you

604
00:27:49,676 --> 00:27:51,705
know, uh, people in the general public.

605
00:27:51,705 --> 00:27:55,485
I- i- if, if you know nothing about
firearms in Canada, they might look

606
00:27:55,495 --> 00:27:59,275
impressive to you, but if you know
something about firearms laws or firearms

607
00:27:59,276 --> 00:28:03,446
in Canada, yeah, you, you can see how
badly this current gun grab is failing.

608
00:28:03,735 --> 00:28:10,848
Mm. So the NFA- 50 years of
advocating for firearms rights.

609
00:28:11,278 --> 00:28:15,008
Um, I, from an outsider,
I see the easy path.

610
00:28:15,028 --> 00:28:19,638
The easy path is to catastrophize and
to play to people's fears and to, to

611
00:28:19,638 --> 00:28:25,894
rile people up, and I don't see the
NFA Taking that route, how do you-

612
00:28:25,944 --> 00:28:26,354
Right.

613
00:28:26,704 --> 00:28:27,154
Yeah.

614
00:28:27,224 --> 00:28:30,944
Um, how do you keep the NFA's
claims credib- credible without

615
00:28:30,964 --> 00:28:33,224
catastrophizing which pays better?

616
00:28:33,614 --> 00:28:34,543
Y- yeah.

617
00:28:34,544 --> 00:28:40,194
And, a- and I, I can understand,
uh, why, uh, some people do that.

618
00:28:40,233 --> 00:28:42,093
I mean, I've seen it
in the past certainly.

619
00:28:42,124 --> 00:28:42,384
Sure.

620
00:28:42,493 --> 00:28:44,364
And there's always an
element of truth to that.

621
00:28:44,374 --> 00:28:44,664
Sure.

622
00:28:44,694 --> 00:28:45,164
Okay?

623
00:28:45,464 --> 00:28:52,483
But why do that when you can provide
a positive path forward, a positive,

624
00:28:53,143 --> 00:29:00,154
uh, a positive, uh, path of political
reforms, uh, g- being involved in, in,

625
00:29:00,223 --> 00:29:04,064
uh, uh, politics, not only at the federal
level, but also at the provincial level?

626
00:29:04,423 --> 00:29:06,524
And we see how important
that is now, don't we?

627
00:29:06,653 --> 00:29:06,883
Mm.

628
00:29:06,894 --> 00:29:11,324
Majority of provinces in Canada not
supporting, uh, the liberal gun grab.

629
00:29:11,394 --> 00:29:12,043
That's crazy.

630
00:29:12,144 --> 00:29:13,604
Like, I'm trying to rack my brain.

631
00:29:13,894 --> 00:29:16,584
Has this happened in other areas,
where a federal law comes through

632
00:29:16,584 --> 00:29:19,723
and the provinces are like, "Eh,
we're gonna do everything we can to

633
00:29:19,723 --> 00:29:21,353
find a way to, to not support this?"

634
00:29:21,374 --> 00:29:23,154
Oh, I'm sure it's happened
in, in, in the past.

635
00:29:23,154 --> 00:29:24,983
Certainly not with firearms.

636
00:29:25,034 --> 00:29:26,583
I mean, this is unprecedented.

637
00:29:26,723 --> 00:29:27,003
Right.

638
00:29:27,063 --> 00:29:28,024
That- I've never seen it on firearms.

639
00:29:28,034 --> 00:29:28,424
Yeah.

640
00:29:28,473 --> 00:29:31,883
Uh, the, the majority of provinces
in Canada, and even the majority of

641
00:29:31,883 --> 00:29:35,963
law enforcement agencies in Canada,
do not want to have any part of this.

642
00:29:35,973 --> 00:29:39,413
Mm. And of course, that sets the federal
agenda back, because when you have

643
00:29:39,413 --> 00:29:43,823
the cooperation of provinces, uh, that
are providing resources and logistics,

644
00:29:43,824 --> 00:29:47,394
and you have the, uh, cooperation
of law enforcement agencies who are

645
00:29:47,394 --> 00:29:52,543
enthusiastic about, uh, getting these
guns, then it makes that job much easier.

646
00:29:52,583 --> 00:29:53,488
But, uh, the- You

647
00:29:53,488 --> 00:29:55,433
have the social currency
to be able to do something.

648
00:29:55,653 --> 00:29:55,913
Yeah.

649
00:29:55,913 --> 00:29:57,133
Now they lack that.

650
00:29:57,523 --> 00:29:58,074
They don't.

651
00:29:58,173 --> 00:29:59,493
I- th- they don't have it.

652
00:29:59,543 --> 00:30:03,023
I, I, I don't think they had it from
the beginning, because people, I think

653
00:30:03,023 --> 00:30:05,903
right from the, the get-go on this,
people are going, "Oh, they banned a

654
00:30:05,903 --> 00:30:09,673
bunch of guns. Okay. Uh, and they're
going to take them off their owners."

655
00:30:09,673 --> 00:30:11,783
Well, these people purchased them legally.

656
00:30:12,183 --> 00:30:12,944
They own them legally.

657
00:30:13,563 --> 00:30:14,813
They all got firearms licenses.

658
00:30:15,543 --> 00:30:18,243
They've demonstrated that they're
not a danger to public safety.

659
00:30:18,673 --> 00:30:19,743
Well, why are you doing this?

660
00:30:19,833 --> 00:30:21,853
Oh, they're dan- too dangerous
to be in circulation.

661
00:30:21,983 --> 00:30:24,614
Well, it's b- it was, it's
been proven the opposite.

662
00:30:24,793 --> 00:30:25,133
Right.

663
00:30:25,383 --> 00:30:28,863
And not only that, but tell you
what, while we get around to taking

664
00:30:28,863 --> 00:30:31,474
them from you, you guys just hold
onto them for a bunch of years.

665
00:30:32,034 --> 00:30:32,624
I know, right?

666
00:30:32,694 --> 00:30:35,303
Because they're so dangerous, but
you guys just keep holding onto it.

667
00:30:35,383 --> 00:30:35,783
Yeah.

668
00:30:35,834 --> 00:30:37,543
And, and we're not gonna
extend the amnesty.

669
00:30:37,543 --> 00:30:38,923
Oh, okay, there's a court challenge.

670
00:30:38,923 --> 00:30:41,023
We're gonna extend the, the
amnesty a little bit further.

671
00:30:41,034 --> 00:30:42,673
W- wasn't the timing on
that interesting, huh?

672
00:30:42,683 --> 00:30:43,853
That was interesting, wasn't it?

673
00:30:43,853 --> 00:30:44,593
Yeah, yeah.

674
00:30:44,593 --> 00:30:49,673
No, it was, uh, um, uh, uh, it, it was
always my, my personal opinion, and

675
00:30:49,673 --> 00:30:53,653
of course, uh, y- at National Firearms
Association, you, you constant- constantly

676
00:30:53,653 --> 00:30:56,863
get questions from people going, "What
should I do? What should I do?" Well,

677
00:30:56,864 --> 00:31:01,303
we're not gonna, we're not gonna, uh,
uh, advise you to do something, okay?

678
00:31:01,303 --> 00:31:04,213
We, we're gonna tell you what you have
to do and what you don't have to do- Mm

679
00:31:04,224 --> 00:31:05,294
number one, okay?

680
00:31:05,663 --> 00:31:10,303
Well, the amnesty's coming up, and, you
know, uh, do I get my gun deactivated?

681
00:31:10,343 --> 00:31:14,823
And, uh, boy, the, the, the options
that they, they offered people are

682
00:31:14,823 --> 00:31:16,998
really- Uh, proving to be problematic.

683
00:31:17,598 --> 00:31:18,788
Do I get it deactivated?

684
00:31:18,788 --> 00:31:19,808
Do I export it?

685
00:31:19,868 --> 00:31:22,918
Uh, do I just, uh, you know,
uh, sign up for this voluntary

686
00:31:22,918 --> 00:31:24,398
registration for confiscation?

687
00:31:24,407 --> 00:31:25,088
What should I do?

688
00:31:25,777 --> 00:31:28,178
Uh, do you think they'll
hold to that amnesty?

689
00:31:28,187 --> 00:31:36,028
And, you know, knowing, uh, the logistics
and, uh, the manpower that it would

690
00:31:36,037 --> 00:31:41,537
take to actually do that running up
to October 30th, uh, I, I just had to

691
00:31:41,537 --> 00:31:44,867
tell people, "Look, it is my opinion-

692
00:31:45,348 --> 00:31:45,648
Mm

693
00:31:45,678 --> 00:31:49,377
…
that they are going to have to extend
this because they cannot achieve

694
00:31:49,407 --> 00:31:51,677
what they want to do by this date."

695
00:31:52,057 --> 00:31:56,348
The majority of OIC firearms, Order in
Council firearms, are still out there

696
00:31:56,348 --> 00:31:58,327
in the hands of their owners, okay?

697
00:31:59,037 --> 00:32:01,707
Uh, they have not complied
with the program, okay?

698
00:32:01,967 --> 00:32:06,617
So either the government decides
to create hundreds of thousands

699
00:32:06,618 --> 00:32:08,437
of new criminals overnight-

700
00:32:08,618 --> 00:32:08,758
Mm

701
00:32:09,477 --> 00:32:11,207
…
or they have to extend it.

702
00:32:11,267 --> 00:32:15,147
And y- you know, can you imagine
if they held to that, uh, amnesty

703
00:32:15,147 --> 00:32:17,887
deadline, and all of a sudden, day
after, okay, we're all criminals.

704
00:32:18,328 --> 00:32:19,958
And eventually people get caught up in it.

705
00:32:19,967 --> 00:32:20,827
Why do you have this gun?

706
00:32:20,827 --> 00:32:22,778
Why d- why didn't you do
something about it while you

707
00:32:22,778 --> 00:32:23,707
had- Yeah … the opportunity?

708
00:32:24,237 --> 00:32:28,867
And, uh, you're standing in a courtroom,
and, uh, you're in front of a judge,

709
00:32:28,867 --> 00:32:32,957
and the judge asks you, "Why didn't you
comply?" "Well, I, I, I attempted to, Your

710
00:32:32,958 --> 00:32:34,797
Honor, but I just couldn't get it done."

711
00:32:34,827 --> 00:32:37,927
"Well, why didn't you have the gun
deactivated?" "I looked into that, but

712
00:32:37,928 --> 00:32:39,517
I couldn't find a gunsmith to do it."

713
00:32:39,528 --> 00:32:40,008
Mm.

714
00:32:40,257 --> 00:32:40,697
Okay?

715
00:32:40,727 --> 00:32:44,228
And if you look at the situation with
firearms businesses, and especially

716
00:32:44,228 --> 00:32:47,687
gunsmiths in Canada, they're dropping
like flies now- Mm … because,

717
00:32:47,727 --> 00:32:52,347
uh, various things, uh, firearms
legislation, the OICs, the economy.

718
00:32:52,657 --> 00:32:56,208
So it's gonna be very, very difficult,
and I'm sure people are, are ha-

719
00:32:56,278 --> 00:33:00,317
having this, uh, this challenge right
now, if you chose to go that route,

720
00:33:00,388 --> 00:33:03,707
to actually- Yeah … find a, a
gunsmith to deactivate the gun for you.

721
00:33:04,168 --> 00:33:06,827
"Well, I couldn't find a gunsmith,
Your Honor. I really, I really

722
00:33:06,827 --> 00:33:10,238
tried, but there was just nobody
left that w- that could actually do

723
00:33:10,238 --> 00:33:11,728
it before the end of the deadline."

724
00:33:11,757 --> 00:33:12,437
"Oh, okay.

725
00:33:12,737 --> 00:33:15,547
Well, why didn't you h- why
didn't you export it?" "Okay.

726
00:33:15,867 --> 00:33:19,488
Well, I looked in- into that too,
Your Honor, and, uh, unfortunately,

727
00:33:19,488 --> 00:33:24,187
I was told I could not e- export this
gun to the United States." "What?

728
00:33:24,517 --> 00:33:28,397
Why not?" "Well, it was pr- it was, uh,
prohibited from en- en- entry under US

729
00:33:28,398 --> 00:33:33,620
law." You know, why did you not export
your AR-15 rifle to the United States?

730
00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:33,800
Mm-hmm.

731
00:33:33,810 --> 00:33:37,300
Well, uh, illegal, unlawful
to do that, Your Honor.

732
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:38,829
Well, that's confusing.

733
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:40,489
Yeah, you think?

734
00:33:40,750 --> 00:33:42,709
Okay, why didn't you
send it somewhere else?

735
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:43,219
Where?

736
00:33:44,229 --> 00:33:45,620
I mean, w- where do the- You tell me

737
00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:45,889
where, yeah.

738
00:33:45,889 --> 00:33:46,739
Yeah, exactly.

739
00:33:46,739 --> 00:33:50,459
Where, where do the majority of
firearms exports, uh, from Canada go?

740
00:33:50,909 --> 00:33:51,649
The United States.

741
00:33:51,649 --> 00:33:51,919
That's right.

742
00:33:52,059 --> 00:33:52,449
Okay.

743
00:33:53,139 --> 00:33:54,279
Couldn't send it to Australia.

744
00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:55,499
Banned there.

745
00:33:55,729 --> 00:33:56,029
Nope.

746
00:33:56,239 --> 00:33:57,229
Couldn't send it to New Zealand.

747
00:33:57,300 --> 00:33:57,389
Right.

748
00:33:57,389 --> 00:33:57,870
Banned there.

749
00:33:58,409 --> 00:33:59,199
So where do you send it?

750
00:33:59,219 --> 00:33:59,769
Azerbaijan?

751
00:34:00,429 --> 00:34:00,739
Hmm.

752
00:34:00,780 --> 00:34:05,580
I mean, so the logistics of trying to find
a place for this gun to go, there you go.

753
00:34:05,780 --> 00:34:06,270
Okay.

754
00:34:06,289 --> 00:34:09,510
Well, uh, why, why didn't you turn it in?

755
00:34:09,549 --> 00:34:10,209
Where, Your Honor?

756
00:34:10,539 --> 00:34:12,949
Well, I mean, uh, your local
law enforcement agency.

757
00:34:13,389 --> 00:34:15,459
Well, they're not participating
in this, Your Honor.

758
00:34:15,759 --> 00:34:16,089
Hmm.

759
00:34:16,489 --> 00:34:17,709
So what could I do?

760
00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:19,249
Mm-hmm.

761
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:25,460
It, it… and if you look at it on
that basis, I mean, what court, what

762
00:34:25,469 --> 00:34:28,929
judge is gonna c- convict somebody who
tried to comply with the law and was

763
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:31,879
stymying at, stymied at every step?

764
00:34:32,109 --> 00:34:35,079
You know, you mentioned something
earlier about gun charges.

765
00:34:35,090 --> 00:34:38,920
Somebody does something and the g- gun
charges are associated, one of the charges

766
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,420
they have on there, and they're, they're
usually the first ones to be dropped.

767
00:34:41,569 --> 00:34:41,939
Yes.

768
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:45,679
And I see that time and time
again, and it's a tactic

769
00:34:45,789 --> 00:34:47,060
going to court that they use.

770
00:34:47,069 --> 00:34:49,980
It's like, "I'll tell you what, we'll just
get rid of these ones over here- Mm-hmm

771
00:34:49,980 --> 00:34:53,119
if you just admit to these ones here."
And the reason is, is 'cause a lot of

772
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,749
these charges don't hold up to a candle.

773
00:34:55,859 --> 00:35:00,309
A lot of the gun charges are- Yeah … so
poorly written, the Firearms Act and

774
00:35:00,359 --> 00:35:04,719
the regulations, and it's so convoluted
that in order to defend it, it's

775
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,809
almost un- untenable to prosecute.

776
00:35:07,099 --> 00:35:11,400
And to defend it, you're either
gotta be ignorant to what's the

777
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,900
possibilities are or, uh, or just
agree to the plea coming off.

778
00:35:14,999 --> 00:35:16,160
Oh, oh, very much so.

779
00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:19,249
But I mean, uh, e- even when it
comes to the, uh, the violent

780
00:35:19,249 --> 00:35:22,579
misuse of firearms, even those
firearms, uh, charges are dropped.

781
00:35:22,579 --> 00:35:27,389
I remember, uh, one of the, uh, the
Lever Arms, uh, uh, hold ups, and,

782
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,960
uh, uh, they actually caught the guys.

783
00:35:30,089 --> 00:35:30,349
Hmm.

784
00:35:30,759 --> 00:35:35,339
And, uh, we were notified that you will
have to appear as witnesses, you know, uh,

785
00:35:35,399 --> 00:35:38,909
uh, you know, at this place on this date
and testify against these individuals.

786
00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:40,429
And we're going, "Oh, great.

787
00:35:40,429 --> 00:35:44,469
Okay, well, at least they got them." And,
uh, in the run-up to that, you know, it's

788
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,490
getting, you know, two weeks before we
gotta go to court, you know, a week before

789
00:35:47,490 --> 00:35:52,440
we go to court, and a couple of days
before we, we actually had to, uh, show up

790
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,960
and testify, uh, we were notified by Crown
that, "Uh, we don't need you anymore."

791
00:35:56,049 --> 00:35:56,740
Yeah, they plead.

792
00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:01,090
They, they plead out to another
charge from another offense, and

793
00:36:01,090 --> 00:36:02,520
they dropped the Lever Arms charge.

794
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:03,229
Mm-hmm.

795
00:36:04,376 --> 00:36:04,646
See?

796
00:36:05,516 --> 00:36:05,936
Yeah.

797
00:36:05,996 --> 00:36:07,426
And where's the logic in that one?

798
00:36:08,216 --> 00:36:09,276
I, I don't know.

799
00:36:09,276 --> 00:36:12,696
Y- y- you know, firearms offenses, I
mean, I'm talking about legitimate.

800
00:36:12,776 --> 00:36:13,176
Sure.

801
00:36:13,215 --> 00:36:17,826
Legitimate, violent firearms offenses used
to be taken seriously in this country.

802
00:36:17,835 --> 00:36:18,185
Mm-hmm.

803
00:36:18,196 --> 00:36:21,235
But I, I, I, I hate to tell
everybody, but in, in a lot of

804
00:36:21,235 --> 00:36:22,856
cases it's just lip service now.

805
00:36:22,866 --> 00:36:25,335
It's like, "We're cracking
down on gun violence." How?

806
00:36:25,335 --> 00:36:27,506
H- how, how are you doing that?

807
00:36:27,876 --> 00:36:31,695
By taking, uh, taking all
these horrible, uh, uh, uh…

808
00:36:32,616 --> 00:36:33,846
What's the term they use now?

809
00:36:34,436 --> 00:36:35,705
Assault-style weapons.

810
00:36:36,315 --> 00:36:36,775
That's right.

811
00:36:37,575 --> 00:36:38,095
Yeah.

812
00:36:38,116 --> 00:36:40,916
These, uh, these variants and
assault-style fair- right?

813
00:36:41,265 --> 00:36:45,156
Nothing that's got a, uh, an, an, an
actual legal term associated with that.

814
00:36:45,445 --> 00:36:48,535
Well, they got caught on… They used
to just call them assault weapons.

815
00:36:48,546 --> 00:36:48,576
Sure.

816
00:36:48,605 --> 00:36:48,975
Okay?

817
00:36:48,976 --> 00:36:51,716
And of course, you know, people go,
"Well, they m- these must be fully

818
00:36:51,716 --> 00:36:54,705
automatic firearms, and why should
anybody have these things?" And, you

819
00:36:54,706 --> 00:36:57,975
know, they got called on this because
we, you know, if you're, if you know

820
00:36:57,976 --> 00:37:02,365
guns, uh, you know what an actual,
uh, assault weapon is, you know?

821
00:37:02,425 --> 00:37:02,446
Mm-hmm.

822
00:37:02,446 --> 00:37:06,435
A, uh, select-fire, uh,
uh, self-loading firearm.

823
00:37:06,735 --> 00:37:10,835
And none of the guns concerned, uh,
with the current gun grab are that.

824
00:37:10,836 --> 00:37:15,085
So what they had to do is invent a new
term, and again, you know, it, it, it,

825
00:37:15,135 --> 00:37:18,605
it, it comes under the, the heading of,
you know, things like Saturday Night

826
00:37:18,645 --> 00:37:20,855
Specials, assault-style weapons- Mm-hmm

827
00:37:20,866 --> 00:37:21,336
you know.

828
00:37:22,495 --> 00:37:25,396
It, it, it's a term… It's
a marketing term, basically.

829
00:37:25,396 --> 00:37:26,845
A political marketing term.

830
00:37:26,855 --> 00:37:27,125
Sure.

831
00:37:27,135 --> 00:37:27,496
And- A

832
00:37:27,496 --> 00:37:27,685
lot

833
00:37:27,686 --> 00:37:28,215
of this is

834
00:37:28,245 --> 00:37:31,975
…
and I don't think it's really working
because people are looking at this now,

835
00:37:31,976 --> 00:37:35,885
and we've seen this, uh, even in, uh,
national media, mainstream media, going,

836
00:37:35,885 --> 00:37:37,936
"Well, these aren't military firearms."

837
00:37:38,555 --> 00:37:40,275
They said they were gonna
send them to Ukraine.

838
00:37:40,675 --> 00:37:40,955
Mm-hmm.

839
00:37:40,976 --> 00:37:42,205
And Ukraine refused.

840
00:37:42,505 --> 00:37:43,335
Mm-hmm.

841
00:37:43,336 --> 00:37:43,656
So…

842
00:37:44,595 --> 00:37:47,725
Well, if they have political marketing
terms- Yep … what can the gun

843
00:37:47,726 --> 00:37:51,415
community have in its back pocket as
its own political marketing terms?

844
00:37:51,415 --> 00:37:54,765
Like, if that's a game that's being
played, it seems, "Okay, they're gonna

845
00:37:54,775 --> 00:37:57,235
go sing off-key, say things- Yeah

846
00:37:57,296 --> 00:38:00,445
that aren't true, but I'm gonna tell the
truth and I got the facts to back me up.

847
00:38:01,075 --> 00:38:02,875
Oh, I'm not getting much
traction here." Well…

848
00:38:02,976 --> 00:38:05,045
Yeah, no, uh, we're
getting plenty of traction.

849
00:38:05,075 --> 00:38:09,245
I mean, I compare it to the situation
today compared to 30 years ago.

850
00:38:09,255 --> 00:38:09,565
Okay.

851
00:38:09,605 --> 00:38:12,585
And you gotta recognize
the strides we've made.

852
00:38:13,616 --> 00:38:14,086
Okay?

853
00:38:14,985 --> 00:38:16,295
I mean, I remember…

854
00:38:16,325 --> 00:38:19,455
I mean, you know, not excusing what's
going on right now, but I remember where

855
00:38:19,455 --> 00:38:20,845
there, where there were no alternatives.

856
00:38:20,845 --> 00:38:22,696
There was no political a- alternatives.

857
00:38:23,166 --> 00:38:28,906
But it was that long, hard fight, uh,
that political capital that was, uh,

858
00:38:28,916 --> 00:38:33,955
built and earned, and we have a situation
today politically in Canada where, uh,

859
00:38:34,315 --> 00:38:37,776
we're, we're fairly well-placed, I mean,
on- once we elect a new government.

860
00:38:37,965 --> 00:38:39,855
Mm-hmm.

861
00:38:39,866 --> 00:38:43,086
So what are the most common questions
that are coming into the NFA?

862
00:38:44,438 --> 00:38:44,878
Wow.

863
00:38:44,908 --> 00:38:45,698
Okay.

864
00:38:45,838 --> 00:38:47,048
Um, yeah.

865
00:38:47,178 --> 00:38:51,118
W- lately, uh, obviously the
situation with OIC firearms.

866
00:38:51,228 --> 00:38:51,478
Mm.

867
00:38:51,708 --> 00:38:57,778
Um, as you know, uh, this whole program
was extremely badly communicated.

868
00:38:57,778 --> 00:39:01,338
Poorly conceived, badly communicated.

869
00:39:01,388 --> 00:39:01,628
Mm.

870
00:39:01,787 --> 00:39:04,597
Nobody, you know… "Is my gun on
the list?" Well, go to the website

871
00:39:04,957 --> 00:39:07,847
and go through all those pages
of guns that are banned- Right

872
00:39:07,847 --> 00:39:10,277
and, you know, the, the eyes glaze over.

873
00:39:10,328 --> 00:39:12,297
People are not firearms experts, you know?

874
00:39:12,798 --> 00:39:16,068
I got a call f- I got a call from a
guy saying, uh, "You know, I think

875
00:39:16,068 --> 00:39:19,587
my gun, uh, is affected by order and
counsel. It's a variant of a variant of

876
00:39:19,587 --> 00:39:25,248
a variant. I phoned, uh, the firearms
program and, uh, they told me it wasn't."

877
00:39:25,447 --> 00:39:25,757
Mm.

878
00:39:25,797 --> 00:39:29,547
"Because it's not on the list."
And I'm going, "Uh, that,

879
00:39:29,547 --> 00:39:30,527
that doesn't sound right.

880
00:39:30,668 --> 00:39:33,647
What kind of gun do you have?" "Well,
I've got this, this, and this." "Okay.

881
00:39:34,137 --> 00:39:39,097
So, uh, look up the FRT." Uh,
and it's like, nope, your gun

882
00:39:39,117 --> 00:39:41,757
is definitely, uh, on the list.

883
00:39:41,847 --> 00:39:42,117
Mm.

884
00:39:42,148 --> 00:39:42,528
Okay?

885
00:39:42,867 --> 00:39:47,027
So people are getting, uh, uh, confusing
messages when they contact firearm center.

886
00:39:47,247 --> 00:39:51,107
Uh, they're getting wrong answers,
and it, it, it really undermines,

887
00:39:51,207 --> 00:39:53,497
uh, uh, faith in the entire process.

888
00:39:53,798 --> 00:39:53,857
Mm-hmm.

889
00:39:53,857 --> 00:39:54,897
Maybe that's a good thing.

890
00:39:55,497 --> 00:39:57,457
I mean, if they're that incompetent.

891
00:39:58,048 --> 00:40:01,237
But, I mean, again, if you call
National Firearms Association, you're

892
00:40:01,237 --> 00:40:03,487
gonna get, uh, the straight goods.

893
00:40:03,728 --> 00:40:03,968
Mm.

894
00:40:04,048 --> 00:40:05,768
Because that's we're in…
what we're in the business of.

895
00:40:05,777 --> 00:40:09,897
I… Firearms laws are
extremely confusing.

896
00:40:09,987 --> 00:40:10,277
Mm.

897
00:40:10,497 --> 00:40:11,947
I think, I think deliberately.

898
00:40:12,247 --> 00:40:15,697
But, uh, you know, we, we
deal with this every day.

899
00:40:16,618 --> 00:40:20,458
Uh, we have to advise people on what
they're legally obligated to do, what

900
00:40:20,458 --> 00:40:23,537
they're not obligated to do, courses
of action going forward, and things

901
00:40:23,537 --> 00:40:24,788
like compliance and that sort of thing.

902
00:40:25,508 --> 00:40:30,308
And we're still dealing with, uh, uh,
the fallout from legislation of, you

903
00:40:30,308 --> 00:40:33,297
know, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago, okay?

904
00:40:33,307 --> 00:40:33,328
Mm-hmm.

905
00:40:33,328 --> 00:40:36,888
Because that hasn't been decided yet.

906
00:40:36,917 --> 00:40:41,437
So I still, I still run into guns that,
uh, you know, were, were prohibited, uh,

907
00:40:41,438 --> 00:40:45,984
you know, in the '90s, and it's like Uh,
e- especially with things like estates.

908
00:40:45,994 --> 00:40:48,924
And as you know, estates
are extremely complicated.

909
00:40:49,134 --> 00:40:49,514
Sure.

910
00:40:49,564 --> 00:40:52,804
Uh, especially now because of the,
uh, freeze on handgun transfers.

911
00:40:52,834 --> 00:40:56,763
I mean, and, uh, again, that's deliberate
because, uh, most people, you know, uh,

912
00:40:56,823 --> 00:40:59,543
if, if, if they don't understand the
law, what's the first thing they do?

913
00:40:59,573 --> 00:41:01,524
The, uh, the widow, you know- Mm-hmm.

914
00:41:01,954 --> 00:41:02,543
She gets rid of them.

915
00:41:02,873 --> 00:41:03,093
Yeah.

916
00:41:03,123 --> 00:41:04,203
"Hello, police?" Right.

917
00:41:04,203 --> 00:41:04,833
"Come pick this up."

918
00:41:05,114 --> 00:41:06,343
And that's what they count on.

919
00:41:06,963 --> 00:41:10,424
But there are a lot of very extensive
firearms collections in Canada

920
00:41:10,453 --> 00:41:12,074
that are completely devalued now.

921
00:41:12,074 --> 00:41:13,654
And again, this is a
property rights issue.

922
00:41:14,063 --> 00:41:14,833
How dare they?

923
00:41:14,863 --> 00:41:17,804
How dare they do that to people's
property, especially when it becomes

924
00:41:17,823 --> 00:41:21,473
part of their res- their estate, and
they should realize the full amount.

925
00:41:21,784 --> 00:41:24,943
Well, you can still export
them to the United States.

926
00:41:24,953 --> 00:41:26,024
Well, guess what?

927
00:41:26,043 --> 00:41:26,923
Even if you can-

928
00:41:26,933 --> 00:41:27,454
Not all

929
00:41:27,883 --> 00:41:31,484
…
not all, but even if you can,
by the time you get them there-

930
00:41:31,494 --> 00:41:32,983
Yeah … with the fees involved-

931
00:41:32,994 --> 00:41:33,753
You're getting pennies on the dollar

932
00:41:33,764 --> 00:41:36,793
…
you're getting pennies on the dollar
because, hey, Canadian firearms are,

933
00:41:37,163 --> 00:41:38,493
you know, hey, they're unwanted.

934
00:41:38,523 --> 00:41:39,913
They're unneeded in the- Sure … US.

935
00:41:39,913 --> 00:41:40,623
They got plenty of guns.

936
00:41:40,623 --> 00:41:40,863
They,

937
00:41:40,863 --> 00:41:42,083
they got enough themselves.

938
00:41:42,093 --> 00:41:42,873
E- exactly.

939
00:41:42,873 --> 00:41:46,913
A- and so if you, you export the,
uh, the collection down there, you're

940
00:41:46,913 --> 00:41:50,623
not really, uh, you're, you're not
really realizing the full value.

941
00:41:50,623 --> 00:41:50,823
And I think- And

942
00:41:50,823 --> 00:41:54,114
they've got some strict rules about what
can be, uh, exported, well, not exported

943
00:41:54,114 --> 00:41:55,693
from Canada, but imported into the States.

944
00:41:55,694 --> 00:41:56,933
They have some strict rules on-

945
00:41:57,063 --> 00:41:57,723
Very much so

946
00:41:57,753 --> 00:42:02,023
…
and drop tests that need to be met, which
some guns that we have in Canada that were

947
00:42:02,023 --> 00:42:05,303
legal for us to have that they couldn't
have there or, you know, certain date f-

948
00:42:05,834 --> 00:42:07,873
dates that they were made or whatever.

949
00:42:07,963 --> 00:42:11,694
E- exactly, and it's like, okay, this
gun can go to the United States, but

950
00:42:11,844 --> 00:42:14,363
eh, sorry, it can't go to California.

951
00:42:14,414 --> 00:42:15,983
Yeah, it's not a
pan- … it's not a panacea.

952
00:42:15,984 --> 00:42:18,063
It's not, "Oh, just ship to the
States," like everyone thinks.

953
00:42:18,063 --> 00:42:18,913
They got lots of guns.

954
00:42:18,914 --> 00:42:20,283
Well, every state's different, too.

955
00:42:20,554 --> 00:42:22,633
E- e- e- exactly, and
that can really affect it.

956
00:42:22,643 --> 00:42:26,804
And, uh, a- a- again, i- i- it's
an assault on pr- on, on property.

957
00:42:27,273 --> 00:42:30,413
Uh, they don't care because frankly,
this government doesn't care about,

958
00:42:30,493 --> 00:42:31,958
uh, property rights, uh, at all.

959
00:42:31,958 --> 00:42:34,923
What, what were the questions you'd
get prior to, let's say, the handgun

960
00:42:34,923 --> 00:42:38,180
freeze and the OIC- Prohibitions.

961
00:42:38,180 --> 00:42:39,780
What were the most common
questions you'd get?

962
00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:39,850
I,

963
00:42:39,850 --> 00:42:43,150
I, I think in National Farms
Association, estates, number one.

964
00:42:43,150 --> 00:42:43,370
Estates,

965
00:42:43,370 --> 00:42:43,570
yeah.

966
00:42:43,610 --> 00:42:47,989
I, I mean, um, the type of information
or instruction that they get from

967
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:50,550
CFE, uh, CFP is often very confusing.

968
00:42:50,810 --> 00:42:51,270
Sure.

969
00:42:51,340 --> 00:42:53,749
Um, and it's, and it's, it's not helpful.

970
00:42:53,820 --> 00:42:55,000
I mean, they're not there to help you.

971
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:55,070
Yeah.

972
00:42:55,070 --> 00:42:57,640
I mean, uh, uh, ideally they
would like you just to call the

973
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:58,659
police and turn the gun in, right?

974
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:59,099
Mm-hmm.

975
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:05,490
Um, so estate law with firearms, uh,
uh, educating, uh, executors and power

976
00:43:05,490 --> 00:43:09,540
of attorney- Mm-hmm … uh, very much
so about the process of what they have

977
00:43:09,540 --> 00:43:13,230
to do, 'cause it, again, it's not easy,
'cause there's all kinds of, uh, authori-

978
00:43:13,230 --> 00:43:13,450
authorizations and vetting necessary.

979
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:14,369
Mm-hmm.

980
00:43:16,090 --> 00:43:16,620
Um-

981
00:43:16,620 --> 00:43:20,519
But you guys have put together, uh, a, a
guide for people to be able to do that.

982
00:43:20,570 --> 00:43:21,370
That, that's right.

983
00:43:21,370 --> 00:43:22,070
We do have a guide.

984
00:43:22,090 --> 00:43:23,359
It's a plain language guide.

985
00:43:23,359 --> 00:43:27,089
It's a step-by-step plain language guide
for executors and power of attorney.

986
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,070
You find yourself in that situation,
contact us, we'll send you.

987
00:43:30,509 --> 00:43:30,709
Mm-hmm.

988
00:43:30,759 --> 00:43:35,489
Uh, and, uh, i- i- at least you'll
be, uh, uh, uh, better armed

989
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:38,049
going forward in the process of
dealing with the firearms program.

990
00:43:38,449 --> 00:43:42,080
Uh, things about, about firearms
classifications, uh, and I, I was

991
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,309
speaking earlier about, uh, guns
that were restricted and prohibited

992
00:43:45,340 --> 00:43:46,619
under previous legislation.

993
00:43:47,859 --> 00:43:48,369
Guess what?

994
00:43:48,380 --> 00:43:49,370
They're all still out there.

995
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:49,979
Yeah, I know.

996
00:43:50,469 --> 00:43:50,719
I know.

997
00:43:51,459 --> 00:43:55,260
And every once in a while, they,
they pop up, and it, it's like,

998
00:43:55,289 --> 00:43:57,880
uh, and especially working i-
in the firearms industry, right?

999
00:43:58,009 --> 00:43:58,170
Mm-hmm.

1000
00:43:58,179 --> 00:44:03,000
Uh, i- in a, in, in a licensed firearms
business, uh, especially in a major city

1001
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,189
like Vancouver, um, you know, you get
people coming in, "Yeah, Dad died, and

1002
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,849
he had this, this, and this," you know?

1003
00:44:09,949 --> 00:44:10,199
Mm-hmm.

1004
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,669
"And can you tell me, you know, wh-
i- i- if it, if it's legal or not?"

1005
00:44:13,950 --> 00:44:16,569
And, uh, okay, that's, that's okay.

1006
00:44:16,569 --> 00:44:19,799
That's regular, and it's like,
oh, look at this little gem.

1007
00:44:20,489 --> 00:44:24,609
And you have to ask, "Okay, uh, do
you have the registration for this?"

1008
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:24,960
Mm.

1009
00:44:25,009 --> 00:44:26,189
"
I don't think it was ever registered."

1010
00:44:26,410 --> 00:44:26,720
Sure.

1011
00:44:27,439 --> 00:44:30,430
And, "Well, what can I do with
this?" And I'm going, "What?

1012
00:44:30,439 --> 00:44:32,680
Well, b- first of all, you're
committing an offense right now by

1013
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:33,949
being pos- in possession of this."

1014
00:44:33,949 --> 00:44:37,669
Right, and the criminal consequences
for these things are, are severe.

1015
00:44:37,819 --> 00:44:39,229
Ex- exactly, right?

1016
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:41,789
All I did was try to deal
with my dad's estate.

1017
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:41,819
Mm-hmm.

1018
00:44:41,829 --> 00:44:43,539
If he didn't register it, that was on him.

1019
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:43,580
Right.

1020
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:44,659
Why are you doing this to me?

1021
00:44:44,770 --> 00:44:45,100
Right.

1022
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:45,629
Okay?

1023
00:44:45,629 --> 00:44:47,939
So they, they go back into the woodwork.

1024
00:44:48,019 --> 00:44:48,450
Mm-hmm.

1025
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:52,649
So, uh, the majority of the firearms
that, uh, in the early 1990s that

1026
00:44:52,649 --> 00:44:56,369
were, first of all, demanded to, for
registration were not registered.

1027
00:44:56,459 --> 00:44:56,689
Mm-hmm.

1028
00:44:56,700 --> 00:44:56,930
Okay?

1029
00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:59,459
They never came in, and there was
a very narrow window there where

1030
00:44:59,459 --> 00:45:02,499
you could do that and potentially
become grandfathered, right?

1031
00:45:02,499 --> 00:45:03,140
Mm-hmm.

1032
00:45:03,140 --> 00:45:05,439
Uh, PCs introduced that.

1033
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,160
Uh, very shortly afterwards the Liberals
were elected, and eh, that's it.

1034
00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:09,840
Right.

1035
00:45:09,869 --> 00:45:12,970
We're not … If you didn't register
it by this date, you can't do it now.

1036
00:45:13,459 --> 00:45:15,929
So all of, all of those guns are out
there, and they're, they're in the

1037
00:45:15,929 --> 00:45:19,129
woodwork, they're in attics, they're in
ba- in basements, they're under beds-

1038
00:45:19,159 --> 00:45:22,029
Mm-hmm … that sort of thing, and
there's no pathway to legality for them-

1039
00:45:22,140 --> 00:45:22,489
Mm-hmm

1040
00:45:22,509 --> 00:45:23,649
…
which is a big problem.

1041
00:45:25,034 --> 00:45:26,214
Yeah, it is.

1042
00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:31,904
Uh, so 25, 32 caliber handgun,
short-barreled, you know, 105

1043
00:45:31,924 --> 00:45:33,034
millimeter or less, right?

1044
00:45:33,244 --> 00:45:36,023
Um, 104 millimeter, 105 millimeter.

1045
00:45:36,363 --> 00:45:36,923
Um-

1046
00:45:36,974 --> 00:45:37,174
Yeah

1047
00:45:38,644 --> 00:45:39,484
…
they're prohibited.

1048
00:45:39,573 --> 00:45:40,053
Can't have them.

1049
00:45:40,063 --> 00:45:43,424
But they say, "Okay, some of you
guys, you got them, you own them,

1050
00:45:43,424 --> 00:45:46,433
you keep them, 'cause I know you're
gonna squawk. We won't take them

1051
00:45:46,433 --> 00:45:47,404
from you. We'll grandfather you."

1052
00:45:47,433 --> 00:45:48,983
If, if you re-register it.

1053
00:45:49,204 --> 00:45:49,564
Right.

1054
00:45:49,593 --> 00:45:49,884
Oh, yeah.

1055
00:45:50,013 --> 00:45:53,183
Uh, that was a big problem too, because
a lot of people didn't get that memo.

1056
00:45:53,224 --> 00:45:55,793
It was like, "I already
got a registration. Why do

1057
00:45:55,794 --> 00:45:56,623
I have to re-register it?"

1058
00:45:56,644 --> 00:45:57,593
You know why they did that?

1059
00:45:59,164 --> 00:45:59,454
Tell me.

1060
00:46:00,594 --> 00:46:02,354
Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna guess here.

1061
00:46:02,674 --> 00:46:05,314
I'm gonna guess they asked for a
re-registration, 'cause they didn't

1062
00:46:05,314 --> 00:46:08,914
know, and their systems weren't up to
date, and they lost registrations, right?

1063
00:46:08,914 --> 00:46:09,994
Well, uh, uh, a- a- absolutely.

1064
00:46:09,994 --> 00:46:10,583
I mean, it, it

1065
00:46:10,583 --> 00:46:12,634
was- S- same with the 2020
re-registration that happened.

1066
00:46:12,653 --> 00:46:13,044
Remember that?

1067
00:46:13,563 --> 00:46:13,994
Yeah, yeah.

1068
00:46:13,994 --> 00:46:15,963
You know, it, it was
like, um, uh, they knew.

1069
00:46:15,964 --> 00:46:17,783
I mean, they, they collect
this data for years.

1070
00:46:17,784 --> 00:46:20,604
They were doing it for decades, and
it would just go into a file cabinet.

1071
00:46:21,144 --> 00:46:26,283
And, uh, and it, it, it w- it was never
used for any public safety purpose.

1072
00:46:26,294 --> 00:46:26,314
Mm-hmm.

1073
00:46:26,323 --> 00:46:30,183
"Hey, we got a reg- uh, a, a, a record
of a registration for this handgun,

1074
00:46:30,183 --> 00:46:34,363
and we, we solved the crime because
of that." It didn't happen, okay?

1075
00:46:34,363 --> 00:46:37,433
It just went into a file, and,
uh, people forgot about it.

1076
00:46:37,443 --> 00:46:37,943
But, uh-

1077
00:46:38,523 --> 00:46:41,433
Well, th- those guns
were cheap, by and large.

1078
00:46:41,433 --> 00:46:42,463
A lot of them were cheap.

1079
00:46:42,613 --> 00:46:46,524
Saturday night specials, we'll give
that term to them, and people'd go out,

1080
00:46:46,524 --> 00:46:47,514
and they'd spend a little bit of money.

1081
00:46:47,514 --> 00:46:49,523
They'd get themselves a gun-
Yeah … and they were registered.

1082
00:46:49,554 --> 00:46:52,513
And so what way- I actually,
uh- … can we wipe off the

1083
00:46:52,513 --> 00:46:54,234
majority of the registered firearms?

1084
00:46:54,234 --> 00:46:58,663
I actually spoke to one of the RCMP
techs who was involved in that process.

1085
00:46:58,673 --> 00:46:59,013
Okay.

1086
00:46:59,423 --> 00:47:03,554
And, uh, I said, "Why did they do
it this way?" And he said, "Hey,

1087
00:47:03,594 --> 00:47:06,513
you know, basically, they wanted to
ban half of the handguns in Canada."

1088
00:47:06,573 --> 00:47:06,964
That's it.

1089
00:47:07,114 --> 00:47:07,154
Okay.

1090
00:47:07,154 --> 00:47:08,523
And the easiest way to do it was that.

1091
00:47:08,603 --> 00:47:10,134
Okay, how can we do this?

1092
00:47:10,263 --> 00:47:11,544
Orders come down from Ottawa.

1093
00:47:11,594 --> 00:47:15,223
Ban, uh, prohibited, uh, c- uh,
half of the handguns in Canada.

1094
00:47:15,414 --> 00:47:16,864
What criteria can we use?

1095
00:47:17,563 --> 00:47:21,723
Okay, uh, first of all,
we can do it by caliber.

1096
00:47:22,024 --> 00:47:22,284
Hmm.

1097
00:47:22,984 --> 00:47:27,293
25, 32 caliber, these are all, the- these
are Saturday night special calibers.

1098
00:47:27,293 --> 00:47:28,893
They're not useful for target shooting.

1099
00:47:29,613 --> 00:47:30,123
Um-

1100
00:47:30,133 --> 00:47:31,643
Except if you're in the Olympics, right?

1101
00:47:31,713 --> 00:47:33,554
Well, ex- that's what,
we'll make an exception.

1102
00:47:33,734 --> 00:47:33,954
Okay.

1103
00:47:34,423 --> 00:47:35,373
One cancels the other.

1104
00:47:35,374 --> 00:47:39,153
But I mean, um, yeah, so
okay, 25, 32 calibers.

1105
00:47:39,173 --> 00:47:41,803
Well, that's only a quarter
of the handguns in Canada.

1106
00:47:41,914 --> 00:47:42,593
It's not enough.

1107
00:47:43,183 --> 00:47:46,644
Well, I guess we could
do it by barrel length.

1108
00:47:47,223 --> 00:47:47,683
Okay.

1109
00:47:48,393 --> 00:47:52,713
Uh, if, uh, the barrel's, uh,
four, four inches or under, then

1110
00:47:52,713 --> 00:47:54,264
we can prohibit them that way, too.

1111
00:47:54,693 --> 00:47:58,903
But there's a lot of target pistols,
uh, and collector's p- pieces that,

1112
00:47:58,943 --> 00:48:00,443
uh, have that criteria, right?

1113
00:48:00,583 --> 00:48:00,943
Mm-hmm.

1114
00:48:00,943 --> 00:48:04,593
They say, "Well, too bad. They can keep
them, but, uh, nobody else can have them."

1115
00:48:04,723 --> 00:48:05,073
Right.

1116
00:48:05,143 --> 00:48:08,494
So it was literally,
uh, a, a shopping list.

1117
00:48:08,494 --> 00:48:10,323
Come up with a way we can do this.

1118
00:48:10,473 --> 00:48:14,514
Come up with criteria, uh, based on
ignorance and, and, and falsehoods.

1119
00:48:16,223 --> 00:48:17,883
Cana- people don't understand firearms.

1120
00:48:17,884 --> 00:48:18,664
They're not gonna care.

1121
00:48:18,673 --> 00:48:18,733
Yeah.

1122
00:48:18,994 --> 00:48:22,574
And plus, we've got a majority government,
and we can pass any legislation we want.

1123
00:48:24,033 --> 00:48:31,133
So there was a clause, by virtue of
my birthdate, I couldn't get- Yeah

1124
00:48:31,134 --> 00:48:33,883
a short-barrel 25 or 32 caliber handgun.

1125
00:48:34,153 --> 00:48:36,443
However, I could inherit one.

1126
00:48:36,533 --> 00:48:38,774
And back in the day, they said- 12, seven.

1127
00:48:39,013 --> 00:48:39,293
Right.

1128
00:48:39,293 --> 00:48:41,803
They said, "Well, you know, the person
has to die." Well, it doesn't say

1129
00:48:41,804 --> 00:48:45,134
anywhere the person has to die for
you to inherit it, so did a test case.

1130
00:48:45,223 --> 00:48:47,503
Sure enough, inherited
a little Walther PPK.

1131
00:48:48,253 --> 00:48:53,243
Uh, number of years go by, and
I've got this little 12, seven

1132
00:48:53,244 --> 00:48:54,923
inherited on, on the back, and-

1133
00:48:57,750 --> 00:49:02,540
My next license comes in, and I got full
short barrel .25 through .32 caliber.

1134
00:49:02,570 --> 00:49:02,750
I

1135
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:03,550
remember that.

1136
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:03,850
Right.

1137
00:49:03,860 --> 00:49:07,900
So I, I'm like, okay, and this is during
the process when I'm in an eight-year

1138
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:12,410
battle with- … a rogue firearms
officer and a police officer who ended up

1139
00:49:12,410 --> 00:49:14,029
getting criminally charged and convicted-

1140
00:49:14,169 --> 00:49:14,319
Yeah

1141
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:19,600
…
um, doing shady, shady crap, which is why
I got that apology letter and an- Right

1142
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:20,839
undisclosed sum and all the rest.

1143
00:49:20,999 --> 00:49:21,999
This happened during that time.

1144
00:49:21,999 --> 00:49:24,440
I'm like, "They're trying to trap
me. They're trying to…" So I

1145
00:49:24,499 --> 00:49:27,519
documented everything, and I'm calling-
Sure … them up, and I'm recording

1146
00:49:27,550 --> 00:49:28,960
the calls, and I'm emailing them.

1147
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,750
It's, "Mr. Bader, we are the RCMP
firearms program. We do not make

1148
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:36,939
mistakes." It was the exact quote.

1149
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:37,839
I'm like, "Okay.

1150
00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:42,950
So I can go and purchase…" "Yes,
you can." So I went, and I bought,

1151
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:47,690
and sold- Yeah … and purchased, and
I mean, "We do not make mistakes."

1152
00:49:47,899 --> 00:49:49,079
I brought it to your attention.

1153
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,659
I showed you the process.

1154
00:49:50,669 --> 00:49:52,090
You chastised me.

1155
00:49:53,469 --> 00:49:54,890
Okay, fair enough.

1156
00:49:54,890 --> 00:49:57,309
Like, I, I didn't want to be the
one coming out and saying, like,

1157
00:49:57,499 --> 00:50:00,439
uh, uh, alarming the bell, and,
"Oh, you did something wrong.

1158
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:01,224
Quick, fix it." But-

1159
00:50:01,224 --> 00:50:03,269
When it, when, when it comes
to the Firearms Act, that's

1160
00:50:03,269 --> 00:50:04,009
the right thing to do.

1161
00:50:04,369 --> 00:50:07,150
Well, what I did is I alarmed
it in a certain way for myself

1162
00:50:07,189 --> 00:50:09,109
individually- Yeah … in, in a way.

1163
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:09,669
Fair enough.

1164
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,210
"We don't make mistakes."
Okay, here we go.

1165
00:50:12,220 --> 00:50:12,240
Yeah.

1166
00:50:12,250 --> 00:50:16,209
So bought and sold, and then they're
like, number of years went by- Yeah

1167
00:50:16,210 --> 00:50:19,020
until they finally said, "Oh, yeah,
it was a computer glitch, and, uh,

1168
00:50:19,020 --> 00:50:23,139
it was you and, like, I don't know,
86 other people in Canada," or-

1169
00:50:23,259 --> 00:50:24,660
Yeah … what, it was a small number.

1170
00:50:24,689 --> 00:50:27,390
They started revoking registrations

1171
00:50:27,390 --> 00:50:27,900
and telling people to get-
Four-year-old be a criminal.

1172
00:50:27,909 --> 00:50:28,489
Yeah, exactly.

1173
00:50:28,489 --> 00:50:28,890
Hold on a second.

1174
00:50:28,890 --> 00:50:30,129
You authorized this.

1175
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:30,789
That's it.

1176
00:50:30,789 --> 00:50:32,239
Th- why did you do that?

1177
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,769
I'm like, "Well, hold on a
second. Paper trail here."

1178
00:50:34,829 --> 00:50:35,429
Exactly.

1179
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:36,269
You authorized it.

1180
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,109
That's why I did it.

1181
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:37,489
Right.

1182
00:50:37,659 --> 00:50:40,029
"
Oh, um, that shouldn't have happened."

1183
00:50:40,129 --> 00:50:40,580
Mm-hmm.

1184
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:41,069
You know?

1185
00:50:41,069 --> 00:50:44,209
Yeah, you should've known better, and
I've had that one used too before.

1186
00:50:44,229 --> 00:50:45,139
And it, it's funny.

1187
00:50:45,149 --> 00:50:47,984
It always happens that way, and it, you
know, during the, uh, reclassification

1188
00:50:47,984 --> 00:50:50,219
of rimfire rifle magazines.

1189
00:50:50,269 --> 00:50:50,559
Hmm.

1190
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:54,169
And, uh, we had s- started hear
rumors they're going, going to

1191
00:50:54,169 --> 00:50:58,320
do this, and of course Polly,
and, uh, was agitating for it.

1192
00:50:58,320 --> 00:50:58,330
Hmm.

1193
00:50:58,330 --> 00:51:01,129
It's like they, they, you know,
they, they have these, these t-

1194
00:51:01,129 --> 00:51:05,289
these, these big clips and, you know,
because, and they're exempted because

1195
00:51:05,289 --> 00:51:06,999
they're t- uh, .22 or something.

1196
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:08,530
We need to ban these things.

1197
00:51:08,540 --> 00:51:08,550
Hmm.

1198
00:51:08,980 --> 00:51:10,930
So the order comes down from Ottawa.

1199
00:51:10,999 --> 00:51:14,429
RCMP find a way to prohibit
these, these things, okay?

1200
00:51:15,210 --> 00:51:18,489
And, uh, of course the, uh, reason
they used was, well, there are

1201
00:51:18,489 --> 00:51:21,999
handgun versions of these, these,
uh, rimfire rifles, so therefore we

1202
00:51:21,999 --> 00:51:24,330
will call them handgun magazines and-

1203
00:51:24,339 --> 00:51:27,109
You're, you're talking about
the Ruger 10/22 magazines.

1204
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:27,129
And the

1205
00:51:27,129 --> 00:51:28,440
Mossberg 715.

1206
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:29,690
And the 715, right.

1207
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:30,229
That's right.

1208
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:32,489
We'll talk about the 7 to
15 after this, but go on.

1209
00:51:32,529 --> 00:51:33,029
Okay.

1210
00:51:33,339 --> 00:51:35,079
So, uh, find a way to do it.

1211
00:51:35,079 --> 00:51:39,659
Okay, well, uh, both of these firearms
have a handgun version that is available

1212
00:51:39,659 --> 00:51:44,289
in Canada, so therefore, uh, they have
to be restricted to the 10-shot limit.

1213
00:51:44,290 --> 00:51:44,930
Right.

1214
00:51:46,044 --> 00:51:49,804
And of course, the way they did it was
very, very haphazard for the number of

1215
00:51:49,834 --> 00:51:51,464
magazines, and they're still out there.

1216
00:51:51,474 --> 00:51:51,494
Um-

1217
00:51:52,024 --> 00:51:53,964
Now, do they do that through
law or through policy?

1218
00:51:54,724 --> 00:51:55,224
Uh, uh-

1219
00:51:56,543 --> 00:51:57,214
Not legislation,

1220
00:51:58,043 --> 00:51:58,137
not regulation.

1221
00:51:58,137 --> 00:52:01,624
RCMP has, has a policy- Memo … of,
of, of, uh, proper classification.

1222
00:52:01,624 --> 00:52:06,434
Well, it was, it was not, it was, uh, not,
uh, classified properly in the beginning.

1223
00:52:06,444 --> 00:52:09,073
We've reviewed it, now we're going
to, uh, classify it properly.

1224
00:52:09,223 --> 00:52:09,583
Okay?

1225
00:52:10,053 --> 00:52:14,473
So it, it, it's not a regulation,
it's just a, uh, uh, it, it,

1226
00:52:14,514 --> 00:52:16,283
it's just a, a review of policy.

1227
00:52:16,403 --> 00:52:16,723
Mm-hmm.

1228
00:52:16,723 --> 00:52:17,063
Okay?

1229
00:52:17,543 --> 00:52:20,884
So anyways, uh, and we started
to get rumors about this, right?

1230
00:52:20,884 --> 00:52:21,134
Mm-hmm.

1231
00:52:21,134 --> 00:52:23,594
And, uh, nobody knew what was going on.

1232
00:52:23,594 --> 00:52:28,334
You couldn't get any answers from
CFP, and then, uh, that memo leaked-

1233
00:52:28,524 --> 00:52:28,974
Mm-hmm

1234
00:52:29,083 --> 00:52:32,543
…
from, uh, I think it was E Division
RCMP saying, "Okay, this is happening,

1235
00:52:32,544 --> 00:52:35,834
and this is how you should treat them
if, if, if you find, find yourself

1236
00:52:35,834 --> 00:52:37,804
in, uh, involved in an investigation."

1237
00:52:38,614 --> 00:52:41,914
And that, you know, in the age of
the internet, you know, boom, it's

1238
00:52:41,914 --> 00:52:48,264
out there, and everybody's going,
you know, "My God." And, uh, anyways,

1239
00:52:48,283 --> 00:52:49,894
but it creates all kinds of problems.

1240
00:52:49,953 --> 00:52:50,363
Mm.

1241
00:52:50,434 --> 00:52:53,833
Immediately, uh, at Lever Arms, we
start getting calls from people.

1242
00:52:53,843 --> 00:52:57,413
"It looks like RCMP is gonna do this. Can
you modify my m- my magazines for me?"

1243
00:52:57,483 --> 00:52:57,843
Mm.

1244
00:52:57,934 --> 00:52:58,283
All right?

1245
00:52:58,733 --> 00:53:02,024
And we're going- We're
not sure that we can.

1246
00:53:02,484 --> 00:53:02,824
Mm.

1247
00:53:02,884 --> 00:53:03,254
Okay?

1248
00:53:03,254 --> 00:53:05,684
Because you have to be
authorized to do that.

1249
00:53:06,424 --> 00:53:12,314
So anyways, uh, shortly after that, uh,
you know, we had an inspection, and,

1250
00:53:12,343 --> 00:53:15,674
uh, asked one of the firearms officers,
"Look, this, this has happened here,"

1251
00:53:16,324 --> 00:53:22,053
showed him the memo, and said, uh, uh,
"Can we be authorized to modify magazines

1252
00:53:22,303 --> 00:53:24,293
for people to the, uh, the legal limit?"

1253
00:53:24,844 --> 00:53:24,864
Yeah.

1254
00:53:25,033 --> 00:53:28,854
And, uh, looked at it and said,
uh, "We'll get back to you."

1255
00:53:29,853 --> 00:53:31,704
'
Cause that'd be a prohibited device now.

1256
00:53:31,984 --> 00:53:37,143
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you have to get,
uh, s- anything, anything, uh, with a pro-

1257
00:53:37,143 --> 00:53:40,093
prohibited firearm or prohibited device,
you have to be authorized to do it.

1258
00:53:40,104 --> 00:53:41,974
You know, you can't just
assume that, hey, it's- Sure

1259
00:53:42,023 --> 00:53:42,344
you know.

1260
00:53:43,244 --> 00:53:47,233
Uh, a couple weeks later he, uh, got
back to us and said, uh, "Nope, you're

1261
00:53:47,233 --> 00:53:51,804
not, uh, you're not gonna be authorized
to modify prohibited devices." And I'm

1262
00:53:51,804 --> 00:53:53,323
going, "Well, how, how can people comply?"

1263
00:53:53,623 --> 00:53:54,993
Mm-hmm.

1264
00:53:55,483 --> 00:53:56,043
That's your problem.

1265
00:53:56,404 --> 00:53:58,003
That's something a lot
of people don't realize.

1266
00:53:58,064 --> 00:54:02,463
Like, let's say deactivating or even
destroying a firearm as an individual-

1267
00:54:02,514 --> 00:54:02,784
Yeah

1268
00:54:03,273 --> 00:54:07,253
and people listening to this, I'm not
a lawyer, Blair's not a lawyer, but

1269
00:54:07,254 --> 00:54:10,813
as an individual- Yeah … we'll put
that caveat out there, individuals

1270
00:54:10,813 --> 00:54:12,484
are able to do that lawfully.

1271
00:54:12,484 --> 00:54:15,344
When you take it to a business,
and a business needs to have the

1272
00:54:15,373 --> 00:54:17,883
special conditions on its business
license in order to do that.

1273
00:54:17,883 --> 00:54:20,073
Otherwise- Yeah … you
jeopardize the whole business.

1274
00:54:20,214 --> 00:54:24,063
Yeah, e- e- exactly, and, uh, you
know, especially with a, uh, registered

1275
00:54:24,064 --> 00:54:27,873
firearm or previously registered
firearm, uh, there's a process of,

1276
00:54:27,873 --> 00:54:31,704
uh, uh, deregistration that, uh,
that, that is involved, and you

1277
00:54:31,704 --> 00:54:33,054
have to have a verifier on staff.

1278
00:54:33,054 --> 00:54:34,393
You have to be a verifier in order- Yeah

1279
00:54:34,393 --> 00:54:35,904
to do this, gunsmith verifier.

1280
00:54:36,543 --> 00:54:40,663
So it, it, it, it may sound easy, and
especially with the current gun grab,

1281
00:54:40,663 --> 00:54:43,033
I think a lot of people are going,
"Well, I'll just destroy it." Well,

1282
00:54:43,034 --> 00:54:46,404
you better be very careful about that,
or, "I'll just deactivate it myself.

1283
00:54:46,473 --> 00:54:49,093
I'll put a, I'll put a rod in
the barrel." Well, guess what?

1284
00:54:49,113 --> 00:54:50,773
That may not stand up to spec.

1285
00:54:51,223 --> 00:54:53,433
That was one of the interesting
ones too because they wrote up

1286
00:54:53,433 --> 00:54:56,233
a, uh, a list of guidelines.

1287
00:54:56,483 --> 00:54:56,713
Yeah.

1288
00:54:56,763 --> 00:54:58,993
Nothing in law, but they used the
guidelines, and then they started

1289
00:54:59,113 --> 00:55:02,023
holding these guidelines, like you have
to meet these guidelines- Yeah … in

1290
00:55:02,023 --> 00:55:03,554
order for it to be deemed deactivated.

1291
00:55:04,013 --> 00:55:08,514
And one of them was you had to
have a, um- a solid steel rod of

1292
00:55:08,604 --> 00:55:11,424
equal or harder hardness- Yeah

1293
00:55:11,453 --> 00:55:12,074
of the barrel.

1294
00:55:12,074 --> 00:55:15,994
Well, barrels aren't a hard metal to
begin with, and, uh, it's gotta be a

1295
00:55:15,994 --> 00:55:17,964
blind hole, and it's gotta be welded in.

1296
00:55:18,114 --> 00:55:18,314
Yeah.

1297
00:55:18,354 --> 00:55:21,714
And so people would stick a rod down the
barrel, and they'd weld it on both ends.

1298
00:55:21,714 --> 00:55:22,824
Well, that's not a blind hole.

1299
00:55:22,834 --> 00:55:24,503
That bore is open on both ends, right?

1300
00:55:24,503 --> 00:55:24,623
Yeah.

1301
00:55:24,623 --> 00:55:28,714
So, uh, I, I mean, it was pretty goofy.

1302
00:55:28,714 --> 00:55:32,883
And actually, right where you're
sitting right now, I had the, um, uh,

1303
00:55:32,884 --> 00:55:35,823
registrar in here, flew in from Ottawa.

1304
00:55:35,884 --> 00:55:36,104
Yeah.

1305
00:55:36,104 --> 00:55:36,963
What, what was her name?

1306
00:55:36,984 --> 00:55:39,833
Um, but we had, we had this
discussion, and this is when it

1307
00:55:39,934 --> 00:55:41,044
used to be an office in here.

1308
00:55:41,044 --> 00:55:43,194
And of course, it's a firearms business.

1309
00:55:43,194 --> 00:55:44,803
We've got cameras everywhere,
and they record- Sure

1310
00:55:44,804 --> 00:55:45,794
audio and video.

1311
00:55:45,794 --> 00:55:48,254
And so she comes in,
and she's like, "I can't

1312
00:55:48,543 --> 00:55:49,183
really talk.

1313
00:55:49,243 --> 00:55:50,574
I- I'll just kinda write.

1314
00:55:50,873 --> 00:55:52,104
I'll just give you hand signals."

1315
00:55:52,293 --> 00:55:55,923
I'm like, I'm like, uh, of course,
my- I'm like, "Can you actually not

1316
00:55:55,923 --> 00:55:59,173
really talk, or is this 'cause you
don't wanna get recorded on here?"

1317
00:55:59,173 --> 00:56:04,634
But, uh, she says, um, "Okay, so these
guidelines, does it have to meet them?"

1318
00:56:04,723 --> 00:56:09,423
"Yes." "What if it exceeds it?" "Well,
actually, if it exceeds it, it might

1319
00:56:09,423 --> 00:56:13,703
still not be deemed deactivated." "But
what if it falls below, but it'll never

1320
00:56:13,704 --> 00:56:16,434
go bang?" "Well, well, maybe it could
be then, right?" And we played this

1321
00:56:16,454 --> 00:56:20,853
game back and forth, and- Yeah … um,
essentially it was over that issue.

1322
00:56:20,853 --> 00:56:23,223
I had, I had two guns which
were identical to each other.

1323
00:56:23,263 --> 00:56:29,474
They're, uh, a couple of Berettas- Yeah
… um, 92Fs, w- and they were disabled

1324
00:56:29,524 --> 00:56:32,814
or made inoperable for the firearm
safety course training, the restricted

1325
00:56:32,814 --> 00:56:35,254
course, in the i- exact identical way.

1326
00:56:35,254 --> 00:56:38,483
But one was done before, whenever
it was, May 2005, and the other

1327
00:56:38,484 --> 00:56:40,043
one was done after May 2005.

1328
00:56:40,043 --> 00:56:42,993
And they had a b- bulletin on
their website saying, "Anything

1329
00:56:43,003 --> 00:56:46,873
deemed deactivated prior to this
bulletin will stay deactivated- Yeah

1330
00:56:46,873 --> 00:56:49,774
unless it can readily be made to
fire, and anything afterwards needs

1331
00:56:49,774 --> 00:56:51,433
to meet our guidelines." Yeah.

1332
00:56:51,433 --> 00:56:54,643
And so I got these two identical
guns, and one was done before,

1333
00:56:54,643 --> 00:56:55,643
and one was done after.

1334
00:56:55,643 --> 00:56:59,353
One they called deactivated, and
the other one they called disabled,

1335
00:56:59,353 --> 00:57:00,703
which required registration.

1336
00:57:00,743 --> 00:57:01,233
Right.

1337
00:57:01,233 --> 00:57:01,454
Right.

1338
00:57:01,454 --> 00:57:02,233
Oh my God.

1339
00:57:02,543 --> 00:57:02,993
So-

1340
00:57:03,073 --> 00:57:04,663
Bureaucracy- Right
… wonderful thing, right?

1341
00:57:04,863 --> 00:57:08,443
And this sort of ties into the,
uh, the, the current OIC gun grab

1342
00:57:08,443 --> 00:57:12,324
thing, and, uh, when they first did
this, they didn't really envision,

1343
00:57:12,513 --> 00:57:14,214
uh, what was going to happen, okay?

1344
00:57:14,214 --> 00:57:14,224
Mm-hmm.

1345
00:57:14,234 --> 00:57:18,263
They just thought big flashy gun
ban thing, Justin on the news

1346
00:57:18,263 --> 00:57:21,143
saying, "We are banning so m- the,
you know, this many firearms."

1347
00:57:21,174 --> 00:57:21,254
Yeah.

1348
00:57:21,254 --> 00:57:24,833
And of course, they didn't think it
through, so they just introduced the OICs.

1349
00:57:25,463 --> 00:57:30,713
Okay, uh, the owners are, uh, the owners
are authorized to be in possession until

1350
00:57:30,763 --> 00:57:34,114
they're given instructions on what to
do, uh, turn them in- Yeah … whatever.

1351
00:57:34,863 --> 00:57:38,564
And, uh, but there's all kinds
of day-to-day things that affect

1352
00:57:38,564 --> 00:57:39,873
people with firearms, right?

1353
00:57:40,344 --> 00:57:42,874
So immediately, the problems start.

1354
00:57:43,113 --> 00:57:45,313
You know, oh, geez, I
got this OIC firearm.

1355
00:57:45,314 --> 00:57:49,074
And there are two categories of, uh,
Order in Council firearms, uh, previously

1356
00:57:49,074 --> 00:57:53,624
registered OIC firearms- Yeah … things
like AR-15s and short-barrel rifles, and

1357
00:57:53,653 --> 00:57:58,274
previously unregistered- Mm-hmm … OIC
firearms, which is everything else, okay?

1358
00:57:59,214 --> 00:58:03,514
So anyways, um, they do this,
and, uh, of course people are…

1359
00:58:03,564 --> 00:58:07,884
And we would get these calls at
NFA going, um, "I have a, I have an

1360
00:58:07,884 --> 00:58:13,023
OIC firearm. I'm moving. How do I
move with this firearm?" Well, you

1361
00:58:13,023 --> 00:58:14,813
gotta have authorization to do this.

1362
00:58:14,824 --> 00:58:15,284
Mm. Right?

1363
00:58:15,703 --> 00:58:16,624
So contact CFO.

1364
00:58:16,804 --> 00:58:18,983
You go, "I'm moving on this
date, I'm moving with these

1365
00:58:18,984 --> 00:58:21,774
handguns a- and an OIC firearm."

1366
00:58:21,944 --> 00:58:22,203
Mm-hmm.

1367
00:58:22,243 --> 00:58:26,533
Uh, uh, "Can I do this? Is
it lawful for me to do this?"

1368
00:58:26,593 --> 00:58:28,513
And they d- like, they couldn't
come up with an answer.

1369
00:58:28,694 --> 00:58:28,984
No.

1370
00:58:28,984 --> 00:58:32,373
You know- … just between you
and me, just go ahead and do it.

1371
00:58:32,373 --> 00:58:35,913
The, it, it, it is so, the things that
people are being told by the RCMP.

1372
00:58:35,993 --> 00:58:36,223
Yeah,

1373
00:58:36,243 --> 00:58:36,813
verbally,

1374
00:58:36,813 --> 00:58:36,983
right?

1375
00:58:37,013 --> 00:58:37,643
Verbally, yeah.

1376
00:58:37,644 --> 00:58:39,894
"Oh, you know, we don't really
have it, but if you go do it, I

1377
00:58:39,894 --> 00:58:41,164
can't see there being a problem."

1378
00:58:41,944 --> 00:58:41,974
What?

1379
00:58:41,974 --> 00:58:46,763
A- a- and you gotta know that
there's voiceover IP phones, and,

1380
00:58:46,763 --> 00:58:48,264
and everyone's using these things.

1381
00:58:48,264 --> 00:58:49,283
And, like, everything's gets

1382
00:58:49,743 --> 00:58:50,359
tracked and recorded nowadays.

1383
00:58:50,359 --> 00:58:52,324
Well, more importantly, if you just go
ahead and do it, and all of a sudden

1384
00:58:52,324 --> 00:58:54,513
you have a problem, and you're s-
you're standing in front of a police

1385
00:58:54,513 --> 00:58:57,193
officer going, "You have to have an
authorization to do this," or CRN.

1386
00:58:57,193 --> 00:58:57,353
But the kind

1387
00:58:57,353 --> 00:58:58,564
person on the phone said-

1388
00:58:58,603 --> 00:59:01,643
Yeah, but- … "They're so nice."
… Cheryl at, uh, Cheryl at the f- at, at

1389
00:59:01,644 --> 00:59:03,414
the firearms office told me I could do it.

1390
00:59:03,414 --> 00:59:03,483
Mm-hmm.

1391
00:59:03,493 --> 00:59:05,603
Well, you know, the, that's not lawful.

1392
00:59:05,703 --> 00:59:06,133
That's right.

1393
00:59:06,193 --> 00:59:10,273
So, and, you know, people, it didn't
know what to do, and, and especially

1394
00:59:10,284 --> 00:59:12,483
things like you couldn't be in
possession of the firearm anymore.

1395
00:59:12,883 --> 00:59:14,403
I'm, I'm moving out of the country.

1396
00:59:14,453 --> 00:59:15,164
I've got this gun.

1397
00:59:15,184 --> 00:59:15,784
What do I do?

1398
00:59:16,453 --> 00:59:17,083
Can't tell you.

1399
00:59:17,313 --> 00:59:17,613
Mm-hmm.

1400
00:59:17,623 --> 00:59:17,893
You know?

1401
00:59:17,934 --> 00:59:20,143
I'd love to buy it from you,
but I can't do that legally.

1402
00:59:20,614 --> 00:59:22,934
So, um, what was the only alternative?

1403
00:59:23,203 --> 00:59:24,113
Hello, police.

1404
00:59:24,413 --> 00:59:24,914
Mm-hmm.

1405
00:59:24,923 --> 00:59:28,753
Uh, which, you know, I, I, I figure
that, uh, that was probably deliberate.

1406
00:59:29,074 --> 00:59:35,763
But anyways, it was a big problem, and it
festered for two years, two years before

1407
00:59:35,773 --> 00:59:41,623
CFOs finally had enough and, and, and went
to the CFP and said, "Look, people are…

1408
00:59:42,233 --> 00:59:44,004
The, th- this is routine stuff." Yeah.

1409
00:59:44,184 --> 00:59:45,253
"P- people move every day." That's right.

1410
00:59:45,254 --> 00:59:48,613
"People change." You know, sometimes
they can't store the gun at the house.

1411
00:59:48,663 --> 00:59:49,804
They have to store it somewhere else.

1412
00:59:49,804 --> 00:59:49,933
Sure.

1413
00:59:49,964 --> 00:59:52,344
And that has to be authorized,
and it can't be right now.

1414
00:59:52,353 --> 00:59:53,483
We don't have a policy.

1415
00:59:53,504 --> 00:59:59,263
F- so finally, they, uh, came up with a
policy two years after the fact, basically

1416
00:59:59,263 --> 01:00:01,193
saying, "Yes, we will authorize you.

1417
01:00:01,303 --> 01:00:07,413
You will have written authorization
to, uh, uh, either, uh, uh, move-

1418
01:00:07,413 --> 01:00:13,313
Mm … with, uh, your, your OIC
firearm or, uh, or store it at a, at

1419
01:00:13,313 --> 01:00:16,603
another, uh, location, alternative
storage, temporary storage." Sure.

1420
01:00:17,124 --> 01:00:20,273
"And you can store them with another
similarly licensed, uh, firearms

1421
01:00:20,273 --> 01:00:23,683
license holder or at a business
that is authorized for storage."

1422
01:00:23,783 --> 01:00:24,363
Mm-hmm.

1423
01:00:24,603 --> 01:00:26,004
So that solved that.

1424
01:00:26,004 --> 01:00:28,953
It solved part of it, but the fact
of the matter, that only applies to

1425
01:00:28,953 --> 01:00:30,260
previously registered OIC firearms.

1426
01:00:30,260 --> 01:00:31,493
Mm-hmm.

1427
01:00:31,753 --> 01:00:37,133
There is no authorization available for
previously unregistered OIC firearms.

1428
01:00:37,824 --> 01:00:42,853
Well, I wonder, I wonder what the bones
of that authorization is, if it's just

1429
01:00:42,853 --> 01:00:46,733
another, "Oh, yeah, we'll do it" policy
thing, because if you're transporting

1430
01:00:46,733 --> 01:00:52,233
a firearm, you have to be licensed for
that class of firearm as well, right?

1431
01:00:52,243 --> 01:00:55,824
So it's, uh, either under a business
license or your own personal license.

1432
01:00:55,874 --> 01:00:56,074
Yeah, yeah.

1433
01:00:57,316 --> 01:01:00,866
It's not, are you gonna license all those
people as prohibited firearms owners now?

1434
01:01:01,096 --> 01:01:02,556
Well, that takes legislation.

1435
01:01:02,696 --> 01:01:03,106
Right.

1436
01:01:03,326 --> 01:01:04,245
Like, that's what I mean.

1437
01:01:04,296 --> 01:01:08,315
I'm, I'm wondering, speculating
out loud, that the authorization

1438
01:01:08,326 --> 01:01:10,995
that's being provided has no
bearing in law to begin with

1439
01:01:11,734 --> 01:01:12,413
I'd agree with that

1440
01:01:12,994 --> 01:01:14,663
that, that's my speculation.

1441
01:01:14,834 --> 01:01:18,014
Now, you brought up variant before,
which is kind of an interesting one-

1442
01:01:18,014 --> 01:01:22,243
Yeah … because I don't think the
courts were able to, uh, uh, determine

1443
01:01:22,554 --> 01:01:24,964
what the word variant actually meant.

1444
01:01:25,253 --> 01:01:31,764
I know that was part of the,
um, um, uh, the last OIC battle.

1445
01:01:31,764 --> 01:01:35,904
I was, uh, cross-examined on my report
that I put forward, and, uh- Yeah

1446
01:01:36,463 --> 01:01:41,194
uh, we talked about the, uh, the Mossberg
Plinkster in 715T, and we talked about

1447
01:01:41,204 --> 01:01:44,933
the word variant, and the justices
and judges there relied on my ev-

1448
01:01:45,034 --> 01:01:48,834
evidence and information in, in their
opinion that came out, 'cause there's

1449
01:01:48,854 --> 01:01:50,613
nothing out there that contradicted it.

1450
01:01:50,653 --> 01:01:50,843
Yeah.

1451
01:01:50,843 --> 01:01:53,643
But I, I don't think anything
ever came down to actually

1452
01:01:53,653 --> 01:01:55,504
pinpoint what a variant is.

1453
01:01:55,504 --> 01:01:55,723
No.

1454
01:01:55,723 --> 01:01:58,864
No, I mean, uh, uh, no legal
definition- No … definitely.

1455
01:01:58,874 --> 01:02:03,093
It's just a basic understanding that they
operate, uh, that they operate off of.

1456
01:02:03,514 --> 01:02:03,834
Right.

1457
01:02:03,924 --> 01:02:06,313
And, uh, th- how do you figure it out?

1458
01:02:07,893 --> 01:02:09,143
It's gotta go to court, you know?

1459
01:02:09,624 --> 01:02:10,163
Court decision.

1460
01:02:10,214 --> 01:02:13,613
And then they say, "Well, I mean,
look at this FRT, firearms reference

1461
01:02:13,613 --> 01:02:16,273
table." "This thing says it's illegal."

1462
01:02:16,283 --> 01:02:16,303
Yeah.

1463
01:02:16,493 --> 01:02:18,464
And they say, "Well, hold on,
how do you make those FRTs?

1464
01:02:18,503 --> 01:02:20,934
'Cause this other one- Yeah … you said
here, it said it wasn't." "Oh, don't

1465
01:02:20,934 --> 01:02:22,183
look at that one that said it wasn't."

1466
01:02:22,223 --> 01:02:22,433
Yeah.

1467
01:02:22,484 --> 01:02:24,803
"
And really, these FRTs
have no bearing in law.

1468
01:02:24,813 --> 01:02:25,523
It's just our opinion."

1469
01:02:25,664 --> 01:02:26,413
That's right, yeah.

1470
01:02:26,554 --> 01:02:26,973
"
Well, hold on.

1471
01:02:27,043 --> 01:02:28,064
Th- this is your testimony.

1472
01:02:28,064 --> 01:02:29,753
This is what you're gonna say,
that they have no bearing in law?"

1473
01:02:29,753 --> 01:02:31,884
"Yeah, yeah, that's right." "Okay.

1474
01:02:31,973 --> 01:02:34,804
Well then, why are we relying
them as if they have some

1475
01:02:34,804 --> 01:02:36,163
sort of bearing in law here?"

1476
01:02:36,243 --> 01:02:36,923
Yeah, yeah.

1477
01:02:36,953 --> 01:02:39,263
Yeah, the… well, politics.

1478
01:02:39,403 --> 01:02:40,383
That's basically what it is.

1479
01:02:40,554 --> 01:02:43,853
So we got two different
guns, basically the same gun.

1480
01:02:44,003 --> 01:02:46,923
The- Yep … the Plinkster and the 715T.

1481
01:02:46,923 --> 01:02:48,913
I think the Ts are tactical or something.

1482
01:02:48,913 --> 01:02:49,413
Yeah.

1483
01:02:49,413 --> 01:02:53,613
Now, one has a clamshell stock that
goes around it- Yeah … that makes

1484
01:02:53,613 --> 01:02:55,173
it look black and ugly-looking.

1485
01:02:55,234 --> 01:02:55,434
Yeah.

1486
01:02:55,673 --> 01:02:58,413
The other one doesn't, and it's, you
know, a friendly little Plinkster.

1487
01:02:58,694 --> 01:02:58,834
Yep.

1488
01:02:58,843 --> 01:03:00,303
One's non-restricted.

1489
01:03:00,304 --> 01:03:00,753
You can own it.

1490
01:03:00,783 --> 01:03:02,653
The other one, completely prohibited.

1491
01:03:02,653 --> 01:03:04,953
The second you put that
scary stock around it, oop-

1492
01:03:04,993 --> 01:03:05,393
Yeah

1493
01:03:05,503 --> 01:03:06,203
prohibited.

1494
01:03:06,234 --> 01:03:06,953
Yeah, exactly.

1495
01:03:06,953 --> 01:03:07,263
Why?

1496
01:03:07,283 --> 01:03:09,073
Because it looks like an AK-47.

1497
01:03:09,073 --> 01:03:09,683
And I- Looks like

1498
01:03:09,753 --> 01:03:13,514
…
and I think that, so we talk
about variant, and we talk about

1499
01:03:13,563 --> 01:03:15,623
the aesthetics of firearms.

1500
01:03:15,663 --> 01:03:15,873
Yeah.

1501
01:03:16,453 --> 01:03:17,823
I think that's the crux of it.

1502
01:03:18,124 --> 01:03:22,364
Honestly, I think the crux of all
of this is, "That looks scary-

1503
01:03:22,664 --> 01:03:22,954
Yep

1504
01:03:23,033 --> 01:03:26,314
…
let's use that as an example
for what we're getting rid of."

1505
01:03:26,653 --> 01:03:29,973
Yeah, uh, largely, and I think
it, a lot of this gets caught up

1506
01:03:29,973 --> 01:03:33,423
in the ideology of the, uh, civil
disarmament lobby in Canada too.

1507
01:03:34,003 --> 01:03:37,943
All guns are bad, uh, but some
guns are, are worse than others.

1508
01:03:37,973 --> 01:03:38,383
Why?

1509
01:03:38,393 --> 01:03:38,413
Yeah.

1510
01:03:38,433 --> 01:03:41,623
Well, they look this way, and they
encourage a certain mentality, and we

1511
01:03:41,623 --> 01:03:45,384
don't like the type of people who would
own that type of gun, and Americans own

1512
01:03:45,384 --> 01:03:48,603
those types of guns, and we don't want
Canadians to own those types of guns.

1513
01:03:48,613 --> 01:03:48,633
Yeah.

1514
01:03:48,683 --> 01:03:50,643
So it has nothing to
do with public safety.

1515
01:03:50,664 --> 01:03:53,694
There's, there's no
demonstrable reason for this.

1516
01:03:54,123 --> 01:03:58,023
Um, you know, for example, AR-15
rifles, uh, are very rarely,

1517
01:03:58,063 --> 01:03:59,664
if ever, used in offenses.

1518
01:03:59,673 --> 01:03:59,983
Sure.

1519
01:04:00,054 --> 01:04:00,424
Okay?

1520
01:04:00,424 --> 01:04:01,733
But they're the first ones targeted.

1521
01:04:01,753 --> 01:04:02,083
Why?

1522
01:04:02,510 --> 01:04:04,090
Because of the politics of the situation.

1523
01:04:04,180 --> 01:04:05,990
Yeah, I th- I think, I
think you nailed it there.

1524
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:09,670
I think essentially from both sides,
firearms owners and governments

1525
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:13,470
that would want to ban them, there's
a perception of competency- Hmm

1526
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,479
… around an aesthetic of a firearm.

1527
01:04:15,490 --> 01:04:15,510
Yeah.

1528
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:19,049
And gun people will be like, "Look
at this. I got this gun that looks

1529
01:04:19,049 --> 01:04:22,350
really Gucci, and I'm gonna be more
competent because of the aesthetic."

1530
01:04:22,350 --> 01:04:27,199
And the people who'd want to ban them
would say, "Oh, we can't have those kind

1531
01:04:27,199 --> 01:04:29,950
of guns in their hands- Yeah … because,
like, what, what if they went and did

1532
01:04:29,950 --> 01:04:32,459
something and revolted?" Whatever, right?

1533
01:04:32,549 --> 01:04:32,869
Sure.

1534
01:04:32,949 --> 01:04:37,130
I, I think that's, I think that's what
the OIC is in a nutshell, and I'd, I'd

1535
01:04:37,130 --> 01:04:41,579
encourage the audience to, uh, come up
with a rebuttal or, uh, maybe, maybe

1536
01:04:41,580 --> 01:04:43,110
something that, uh, is a bit deeper.

1537
01:04:43,110 --> 01:04:47,120
But I think it, it basically circles
around perception of competency-

1538
01:04:47,170 --> 01:04:47,400
Yeah

1539
01:04:47,460 --> 01:04:48,759
…
and aesthetic associated.

1540
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:50,099
Yeah, absolutely.

1541
01:04:50,170 --> 01:04:53,629
Uh, you know, it's, it, it's just
unfortunate that, uh, it get, it get,

1542
01:04:53,799 --> 01:04:56,582
gets- caught up in a political debate.

1543
01:04:56,622 --> 01:05:02,412
I mean, um, i- if firearms, and I, I, I
don't know going forward into the future.

1544
01:05:02,412 --> 01:05:05,161
I, you know, I used to believe that
there was a time that we, we could have,

1545
01:05:05,631 --> 01:05:08,941
uh, w- we could come up with firearms,
we could write firearms legislation

1546
01:05:08,941 --> 01:05:10,812
that was based in reality, and- Yeah

1547
01:05:10,812 --> 01:05:15,752
widely recognized and, uh, a- as being
so, and widely s- accepted as such.

1548
01:05:16,281 --> 01:05:20,071
But due to the politicization of
this, which goes right into the,

1549
01:05:20,082 --> 01:05:25,481
you know, or right in- i- into the,
you know, the labs of RCP forensics,

1550
01:05:25,541 --> 01:05:27,281
I, I, I, I don't even know anymore.

1551
01:05:27,761 --> 01:05:30,541
Because the process is,
is, is not transparent.

1552
01:05:30,851 --> 01:05:31,311
Okay?

1553
01:05:31,682 --> 01:05:35,191
It's, it's not founded on
any sort of, uh, principle.

1554
01:05:35,191 --> 01:05:37,571
And you look at, this stuff
winds up in courts- Yeah … and

1555
01:05:37,571 --> 01:05:38,781
judges can't even figure it out.

1556
01:05:38,792 --> 01:05:39,741
Why was this gun banned?

1557
01:05:40,002 --> 01:05:43,582
"Well, we deemed it, uh, unsuitable for,
uh, sporting purposes." Based on what?

1558
01:05:44,601 --> 01:05:45,641
That's an interesting one.

1559
01:05:45,702 --> 01:05:46,042
Okay.

1560
01:05:46,042 --> 01:05:48,851
So, I, that's a false
argument right there.

1561
01:05:48,861 --> 01:05:49,082
Yeah.

1562
01:05:49,131 --> 01:05:51,971
They- they talk about sporting
purposes, and by sporting purposes,

1563
01:05:51,971 --> 01:05:55,051
hunters would say, "Well, this isn't
sporting," despite legislation calling

1564
01:05:55,051 --> 01:05:56,571
it sporting at the provincial level.

1565
01:05:56,581 --> 01:05:56,601
Yeah.

1566
01:05:57,182 --> 01:06:02,101
We'll put all the semantics aside
there, but they say, "Is this

1567
01:06:02,111 --> 01:06:04,721
rifle suitable for hunting?" Right?

1568
01:06:04,942 --> 01:06:04,962
Yeah.

1569
01:06:04,981 --> 01:06:08,301
If it, if it's not suitable for hunting,
what do you need this thing for?

1570
01:06:08,491 --> 01:06:08,841
Hm.

1571
01:06:08,841 --> 01:06:11,661
And, and I think that whole
thing is a very false framing.

1572
01:06:11,841 --> 01:06:15,611
A- a- absolutely, especially, uh, and
that was the original argument for the,

1573
01:06:15,611 --> 01:06:18,262
uh, uh, restricting of AR-15 rifles.

1574
01:06:18,341 --> 01:06:21,102
I mean- That this, this, this
rifle is not suitable for hunting.

1575
01:06:21,521 --> 01:06:25,872
Um, uh, uh, the, the magazine does not
conform to hunting, hunting regulations.

1576
01:06:25,891 --> 01:06:28,451
The round is not suitable for
hunting, you know, the 556

1577
01:06:28,461 --> 01:06:29,602
round, you can't hunt with that.

1578
01:06:29,841 --> 01:06:31,971
Well, you can, number one.

1579
01:06:32,091 --> 01:06:34,541
No, no, no, it just
blows the animal apart.

1580
01:06:34,551 --> 01:06:38,022
A lot of this was brought, you know,
the, the falsehoods from the Vietnam War.

1581
01:06:38,051 --> 01:06:38,411
Sure.

1582
01:06:38,432 --> 01:06:39,332
You know, about the- It goes

1583
01:06:39,332 --> 01:06:39,931
so fast.

1584
01:06:39,941 --> 01:06:39,951
I-

1585
01:06:40,042 --> 01:06:43,671
it's, yeah, it just blows the a-
you know, I've, you know, I've heard

1586
01:06:43,671 --> 01:06:47,142
this, and p- people based, uh, based
the restriction on their bigotries.

1587
01:06:47,521 --> 01:06:50,371
Um, but there was no basis for
it, it was just po- politics.

1588
01:06:50,411 --> 01:06:54,062
Yeah, but it sounds reasonable
when you person says, "Well-

1589
01:06:54,071 --> 01:06:54,331
Yeah

1590
01:06:54,502 --> 01:06:55,751
…
you can't use this thing for hunting.

1591
01:06:55,752 --> 01:06:58,621
Like, why would you use this
for hunting?" But for anyone to,

1592
01:06:58,811 --> 01:07:01,261
who isn't in the firearms realm-

1593
01:07:01,441 --> 01:07:01,801
Right

1594
01:07:01,881 --> 01:07:04,552
…
like, anything can be used for hunting.

1595
01:07:04,561 --> 01:07:06,941
Like, a 22 is not suitable
for hunting moose.

1596
01:07:06,991 --> 01:07:09,892
It could, it could, like, because I've
heard stories, I've talked to people

1597
01:07:09,892 --> 01:07:15,066
who've used a 22 on moose and, but- Uh,
it's perfectly suitable for grouse- Sure

1598
01:07:15,076 --> 01:07:15,316
right?

1599
01:07:15,316 --> 01:07:18,856
416 Rigby, if you're going
out after big game, suitable.

1600
01:07:18,886 --> 01:07:20,806
Use that on a rabbit, you're no good.

1601
01:07:20,806 --> 01:07:21,806
So what is suitability?

1602
01:07:21,806 --> 01:07:23,716
It's got nothing to do with the aesthetic.

1603
01:07:24,195 --> 01:07:27,866
It's got everything to do with what it's
being used for, and it'd be like saying-

1604
01:07:27,886 --> 01:07:28,496
Exactly

1605
01:07:28,525 --> 01:07:31,585
… "
You tell me what knife
isn't suitable for cooking.

1606
01:07:31,825 --> 01:07:35,646
You tell me what car isn't suitable for
commuting." Like, it might be ridiculous

1607
01:07:35,655 --> 01:07:41,126
to drive around in, uh, Lamborghini,
some race car to, to commute around- Yeah

1608
01:07:41,135 --> 01:07:42,715
… but doesn't mean it's not suitable for it.

1609
01:07:42,715 --> 01:07:44,686
It'll take you from point
A to point B just fine.

1610
01:07:44,846 --> 01:07:48,295
Well, exactly, and getting back to
AR-15 rifles, we don't like this rifle.

1611
01:07:48,296 --> 01:07:49,586
We don't like the rounded fires.

1612
01:07:49,586 --> 01:07:50,625
It's not suitable for hunting.

1613
01:07:50,976 --> 01:07:54,995
Well, you can get one in any
caliber you want these days.

1614
01:07:55,006 --> 01:07:55,336
Sure.

1615
01:07:55,506 --> 01:07:55,976
Okay?

1616
01:07:56,105 --> 01:07:56,915
308.

1617
01:07:57,386 --> 01:07:57,656
Yeah.

1618
01:07:57,735 --> 01:08:02,165
You know, uh, the larger calibers,
uh, they make, they make them in

1619
01:08:02,166 --> 01:08:05,446
hunting calibers, and they are used
for hunting all over the world.

1620
01:08:05,506 --> 01:08:05,555
Sure do.

1621
01:08:05,616 --> 01:08:06,506
Why not Canada?

1622
01:08:07,285 --> 01:08:09,645
What is differ- what is
different about the animals here?

1623
01:08:09,645 --> 01:08:13,815
Well, it all gets caught up in the
politics and attitudes that, uh, are very,

1624
01:08:13,815 --> 01:08:17,275
very, uh, unfortunate because it af- it
affects people's rights and property.

1625
01:08:17,675 --> 01:08:20,885
Well, so much of it surrounds around the
aesthetic and the gun- Mm-hmm … and

1626
01:08:20,885 --> 01:08:22,965
I think both sides get stuck into this.

1627
01:08:23,006 --> 01:08:23,216
Yep.

1628
01:08:23,366 --> 01:08:27,845
The anti-gun people, they look at the
gun as evil, and the pro-gun crowd,

1629
01:08:27,845 --> 01:08:31,735
they'll look at the gun as for what it
is, as a tool that you can use- Yeah

1630
01:08:31,735 --> 01:08:34,695
that could be used for eagle- evil
in the same way that- Sure … a

1631
01:08:34,695 --> 01:08:36,145
vehicle could be used for evil.

1632
01:08:36,235 --> 01:08:37,145
Any number of things.

1633
01:08:37,165 --> 01:08:37,985
Sure.

1634
01:08:38,046 --> 01:08:42,115
Um, but I also find that, uh,
when you start trying to defend

1635
01:08:42,125 --> 01:08:46,304
against these false, um- arguments.

1636
01:08:46,354 --> 01:08:46,524
Yeah.

1637
01:08:46,934 --> 01:08:49,234
Like, i- is that a
suitable gun for hunting?

1638
01:08:49,234 --> 01:08:50,584
Well, that's not the argument to have.

1639
01:08:50,614 --> 01:08:53,974
That's not the, the litmus test, because
we don't have something here that

1640
01:08:53,974 --> 01:08:58,004
says- Mm … this is and this isn't,
just in the same way that there's no

1641
01:08:58,194 --> 01:08:59,974
knife that's not suitable for cooking.

1642
01:08:59,984 --> 01:09:00,084
Yeah.

1643
01:09:00,174 --> 01:09:01,164
Depends on what you're cooking.

1644
01:09:01,363 --> 01:09:01,533
Right.

1645
01:09:01,533 --> 01:09:03,913
It depends on what you have, and if
that's the only knife you have, it's

1646
01:09:04,313 --> 01:09:06,234
probably better than using a spoon, right?

1647
01:09:06,294 --> 01:09:07,453
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1648
01:09:07,463 --> 01:09:10,643
But, uh, uh, a lot of the
politics, uh, certainly previously

1649
01:09:10,653 --> 01:09:11,993
have been, uh, couched in that.

1650
01:09:12,473 --> 01:09:16,153
It's been useful for the civil disarmament
lobby to do that, especially when you

1651
01:09:16,243 --> 01:09:21,183
get into big, uh, uh, media-inspired,
media-created controversies over-

1652
01:09:21,184 --> 01:09:22,053
Right … this stuff, right?

1653
01:09:22,053 --> 01:09:26,054
Because, uh, you know, uh, they're
marketing a commodity too, and, uh,

1654
01:09:26,513 --> 01:09:31,523
hey, you know, uh, to them, uh, just
like Hollywood, guns are sexy, guns are

1655
01:09:31,524 --> 01:09:34,503
exciting, guns are, you know, interesting.

1656
01:09:34,553 --> 01:09:39,253
Uh, and they're going to use that,
uh, uh, any number of ways, uh, not

1657
01:09:39,274 --> 01:09:41,024
entirely legitimately all the time.

1658
01:09:41,973 --> 01:09:47,543
So how does the average NFA member
have that conversation with somebody

1659
01:09:47,544 --> 01:09:50,854
else who says, "I don't know, I
don't have any guns. I think… Why

1660
01:09:50,854 --> 01:09:54,173
not get rid of the guns?" And how
do they have that gun conversation

1661
01:09:54,174 --> 01:09:55,843
without making the gun the crux?

1662
01:09:56,784 --> 01:09:58,424
Uh, it depends on the individual.

1663
01:09:58,463 --> 01:10:00,793
I mean, there's some people
out there who you're just not

1664
01:10:00,793 --> 01:10:02,103
gonna reach, and that's fine.

1665
01:10:02,123 --> 01:10:02,564
All right?

1666
01:10:02,954 --> 01:10:07,904
But i- as long as you can bring them to a
point where they respect, uh, your, your

1667
01:10:07,904 --> 01:10:09,633
rights, your culture, and your property.

1668
01:10:09,634 --> 01:10:11,363
It's like, "I hate these things.

1669
01:10:11,363 --> 01:10:12,333
I wish they were gone.

1670
01:10:12,384 --> 01:10:16,243
Nobody should have them." Yeah. "But I
understand that you are, are law-abiding.

1671
01:10:16,263 --> 01:10:17,563
You, you, you are licensed.

1672
01:10:17,564 --> 01:10:19,933
I understand what you had to do
to do that, and I understand that

1673
01:10:19,933 --> 01:10:22,203
this is your property, and that
should be respected." Mm. Okay?

1674
01:10:22,253 --> 01:10:24,434
Number one. "I would never own that.

1675
01:10:24,533 --> 01:10:27,763
Uh, I don't agree with it, but
yes, I, I, I, I do understand

1676
01:10:27,763 --> 01:10:28,863
that that's your experience."

1677
01:10:29,274 --> 01:10:31,043
Number two, education about firearms.

1678
01:10:31,043 --> 01:10:33,853
A lot of these people who, you know,
will parrot, you know, the, uh,

1679
01:10:33,903 --> 01:10:38,242
government line, the media line on
it- You got a, they, they got a little

1680
01:10:38,242 --> 01:10:39,892
interest going on there Yep Right?

1681
01:10:39,972 --> 01:10:43,512
It's like this thing is, uh, I, I,
I scare- I'm scared by this thing.

1682
01:10:43,542 --> 01:10:46,721
I am, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm very
frightened by its presence, but,

1683
01:10:46,782 --> 01:10:47,922
you know, I'm also interested.

1684
01:10:48,512 --> 01:10:51,492
So, uh, it- you know,
take the myth out of it.

1685
01:10:51,642 --> 01:10:52,042
Mm.

1686
01:10:52,442 --> 01:10:55,181
You know, guns are tools just
like anything else, all right?

1687
01:10:55,581 --> 01:10:58,881
And once people become familiar with
them, they lose their, they lose their

1688
01:10:58,881 --> 01:11:03,552
fear, um, they lose their, uh, a lot of
the misconceptions they have about it.

1689
01:11:03,561 --> 01:11:05,311
So th- that's the education part.

1690
01:11:05,401 --> 01:11:05,621
Sure.

1691
01:11:05,622 --> 01:11:05,972
Okay?

1692
01:11:06,561 --> 01:11:11,942
Um, there's a lot of people who got
in- involved in, uh, in gun sports and,

1693
01:11:11,951 --> 01:11:15,261
you know, the culture of guns who were
absolutely opposed to at the beginning.

1694
01:11:15,701 --> 01:11:20,111
I think, uh, our, one of our, uh,
uh, acquaintances, uh, Professor Gary

1695
01:11:20,111 --> 01:11:21,581
Mauser- Yes … was one of those people.

1696
01:11:21,581 --> 01:11:21,591
Yes.

1697
01:11:21,591 --> 01:11:22,412
Yeah, yeah.

1698
01:11:22,802 --> 01:11:27,161
He, uh, it w- back, uh, 34 years ago
when this controversy got going, he t-

1699
01:11:27,172 --> 01:11:30,371
you know, he was a professor at Simon
Fraser U- University, and he said,

1700
01:11:30,751 --> 01:11:32,311
"What, what's going on here?" Mm-hmm.

1701
01:11:32,311 --> 01:11:34,681
"I don't really understand what's
going on here, so I'm gonna get

1702
01:11:34,681 --> 01:11:36,691
involved and I'm gonna educate myself."

1703
01:11:37,041 --> 01:11:40,572
You know, he, coming from a v- a, a,
a background where he, he d- did not

1704
01:11:40,572 --> 01:11:43,122
use firearms, and firearms were not
part of his family experience, he

1705
01:11:43,122 --> 01:11:46,421
thought, "Well, you know, I'm take,
I'm gonna take an academic interest in

1706
01:11:46,421 --> 01:11:47,771
this and see what's going on." Yeah.

1707
01:11:48,001 --> 01:11:50,691
And he did, and eventually
he became a gun guy.

1708
01:11:51,151 --> 01:11:51,341
Yeah.

1709
01:11:51,342 --> 01:11:53,461
So, uh, you know, there, there's that too.

1710
01:11:53,461 --> 01:11:57,231
And I think that's going on now, and I
think it has been going on for many years.

1711
01:11:57,272 --> 01:12:01,811
I, I remember a, a time when firearms
ownership was kind of hidden away

1712
01:12:01,811 --> 01:12:04,661
because, you know, a lot of people
thought that if we just hide this away,

1713
01:12:04,662 --> 01:12:08,642
if we're not overt about it, they'll
forget about us and leave us alone.

1714
01:12:08,781 --> 01:12:09,211
Mm.

1715
01:12:09,531 --> 01:12:09,901
Okay?

1716
01:12:09,971 --> 01:12:10,271
Mm.

1717
01:12:10,291 --> 01:12:11,851
And no, that does not work.

1718
01:12:11,891 --> 01:12:14,991
Yeah, that was, that was a common
mentality that I saw time and time again.

1719
01:12:15,001 --> 01:12:15,021
Yeah.

1720
01:12:15,031 --> 01:12:17,862
"Well, it's not really affecting
me, and I'll just be quiet." Yeah.

1721
01:12:17,862 --> 01:12:22,271
"It'll go by." And y- all around
the world, that's changing.

1722
01:12:22,591 --> 01:12:24,732
All around the- I, I think so, yeah
… world people are starting to speak

1723
01:12:24,741 --> 01:12:26,071
up and say, "Well, hold on a second.

1724
01:12:26,101 --> 01:12:28,241
Let's, let's base some
laws in reality here."

1725
01:12:28,281 --> 01:12:29,582
Well, especially these days.

1726
01:12:29,582 --> 01:12:33,551
I mean, it's gotten to be a v- a very
much more dangerous, uh, violent world.

1727
01:12:33,671 --> 01:12:34,091
Mm-hmm.

1728
01:12:34,122 --> 01:12:36,291
Even our world here in C- in, in Canada.

1729
01:12:36,372 --> 01:12:36,702
Mm.

1730
01:12:36,921 --> 01:12:38,431
I mean, if you look at
what's going on in, in- It's

1731
01:12:38,431 --> 01:12:39,581
got nothing to do with the guns.

1732
01:12:39,631 --> 01:12:40,031
No.

1733
01:12:40,561 --> 01:12:40,771
Mm.

1734
01:12:40,802 --> 01:12:41,361
And guess what?

1735
01:12:41,372 --> 01:12:42,611
I mean, you can ban everything you want.

1736
01:12:42,611 --> 01:12:43,621
The guns are still gonna be there.

1737
01:12:43,681 --> 01:12:44,032
That's right.

1738
01:12:44,032 --> 01:12:45,691
They should make mur- murder illegal.

1739
01:12:45,781 --> 01:12:47,211
Like, really, that would make sense.

1740
01:12:47,212 --> 01:12:49,161
If they made murder
illegal, that would stop it.

1741
01:12:49,171 --> 01:12:52,281
Well, I heard they did that, but-
Ugh … it's not working, so I think

1742
01:12:52,281 --> 01:12:54,271
we need- … to make it double illegal.

1743
01:12:54,272 --> 01:12:55,352
Double illegal, yes.

1744
01:12:55,352 --> 01:12:55,762
Okay?

1745
01:12:56,971 --> 01:13:02,402
I'm… You know, um, y- yeah, and
I, I think attitudes in, uh, on

1746
01:13:02,412 --> 01:13:03,762
firearms in Canada have changed.

1747
01:13:03,791 --> 01:13:06,952
They've changed over the
last, uh, couple, few decades.

1748
01:13:06,952 --> 01:13:09,801
I think a lot of people in Canada are
going, "Look, this- we, we, we know

1749
01:13:10,411 --> 01:13:13,021
w- where these guns are coming from,
the guns that are being used in crime.

1750
01:13:13,022 --> 01:13:14,802
We know why they're being used in crime.

1751
01:13:15,341 --> 01:13:17,901
Um, and we want something done about that.

1752
01:13:17,921 --> 01:13:22,128
We do not want- firearms taken
off of law-abiding people.

1753
01:13:22,248 --> 01:13:22,688
Mm-hmm.

1754
01:13:23,068 --> 01:13:26,508
I wanna talk about, 'cause we've
talked a lot about the OIC prohibited

1755
01:13:26,508 --> 01:13:29,748
firearms, let's talk about the handgun
freeze- Yeah … which a lot, a lot of

1756
01:13:29,758 --> 01:13:33,827
people look at as a handgun ban because
essentially that's what they've done.

1757
01:13:33,868 --> 01:13:37,428
They've gone out and banned the
handguns, but, but that's not the

1758
01:13:37,428 --> 01:13:38,888
terminology or the words they're using.

1759
01:13:38,888 --> 01:13:42,498
It's freeze, which implies it can
be unfrozen, and I've worked with

1760
01:13:42,577 --> 01:13:47,237
a good number of people who've
bought and sold handguns during

1761
01:13:47,237 --> 01:13:50,588
this freeze, 'cause there are legal
provisions that allow them to do that.

1762
01:13:50,887 --> 01:13:51,117
Yeah.

1763
01:13:51,117 --> 01:13:53,337
And before we talk about it,
I'll put one q- another plug.

1764
01:13:53,717 --> 01:13:57,540
If you're listening to this and this
is interesting to you- Check the link

1765
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:02,270
in the description if you want to be
able to download your guide in order to

1766
01:14:02,300 --> 01:14:05,470
understand more about an authorization
to carry, whether you qualify.

1767
01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:05,500
Yeah.

1768
01:14:05,790 --> 01:14:09,900
'Cause that also opens up handgun
purchasing- Yeah … and transferring.

1769
01:14:10,370 --> 01:14:13,349
Yeah, no, I've, I've been in, uh,
involved in a few of those already.

1770
01:14:13,359 --> 01:14:14,049
Mm-hmm.

1771
01:14:14,109 --> 01:14:17,050
Um, s- but it's very limited,
and it's very narrow.

1772
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:20,310
And, uh, the fact of the matter
is there are, there are a lot

1773
01:14:20,310 --> 01:14:21,770
of handguns in Canada, okay?

1774
01:14:21,820 --> 01:14:25,680
There are a lot of registered handguns
in the, uh, the hands of licensed owners.

1775
01:14:26,230 --> 01:14:29,589
Uh, there are a lot of, uh, handgun
collectors in Canada- Right … with

1776
01:14:29,590 --> 01:14:35,409
very, very extensive collections, uh,
that would've, uh, represented hundreds

1777
01:14:35,410 --> 01:14:39,829
of thousands of dollars, uh, in potential
return to, uh, an estate, which is

1778
01:14:39,860 --> 01:14:41,789
usually the way it, it happened in Canada.

1779
01:14:42,209 --> 01:14:45,989
Dad died, and, uh, the estate
sold the guns and, and, uh,

1780
01:14:46,049 --> 01:14:47,329
realized the profits from it.

1781
01:14:47,329 --> 01:14:47,669
Mm-hmm.

1782
01:14:47,669 --> 01:14:51,540
But that's not happening now,
and it's very, very difficult,

1783
01:14:51,619 --> 01:14:52,909
uh, for a lot of people.

1784
01:14:53,469 --> 01:14:57,600
And in a lot of cases, it becomes, uh,
you know, the path of least resistance,

1785
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,099
especially for widows, is, uh, hand
them in to the police, and that always

1786
01:15:01,099 --> 01:15:02,529
sort of happened in Canada, right?

1787
01:15:02,529 --> 01:15:03,000
Mm-hmm.

1788
01:15:03,010 --> 01:15:03,260
Sure.

1789
01:15:03,299 --> 01:15:06,240
Because I don't know what the
law is, this is a problem, and

1790
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:07,350
I don't wanna deal with it.

1791
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:07,970
Yeah.

1792
01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:11,439
Um, some people were a little more
informed about it, and new steps

1793
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:14,969
could be taken to- Mm-hmm … uh,
transfer the handguns and, uh, and,

1794
01:15:15,209 --> 01:15:17,060
and, uh, realize profit for it.

1795
01:15:17,529 --> 01:15:20,960
But, you know, in the case of
a, a, a, of a widow, uh, you

1796
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:22,670
know, she's, she's shattered.

1797
01:15:22,689 --> 01:15:27,179
You know, her husband of like 50 years is
dead, and, uh, all of a sudden the police

1798
01:15:27,180 --> 01:15:29,030
are there saying, "Give us the gun."

1799
01:15:29,379 --> 01:15:29,689
Mm.

1800
01:15:29,889 --> 01:15:30,979
And what is she going to do?

1801
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:31,579
Say no?

1802
01:15:31,949 --> 01:15:34,710
You know, "I am the executor- Right … of
the estate. I am authorized to be in

1803
01:15:34,710 --> 01:15:38,130
possession, and I will transfer this to
another firearms license holder." You

1804
01:15:38,130 --> 01:15:41,309
know, that's not gonna happen in the
majority cases, and people know that.

1805
01:15:41,509 --> 01:15:41,779
Yep.

1806
01:15:41,829 --> 01:15:45,539
Um, but as it stands today,
uh, yeah, it is possible to,

1807
01:15:45,540 --> 01:15:47,099
uh, transfer, uh, a handgun.

1808
01:15:47,149 --> 01:15:51,469
Uh, licensed firearms businesses
are, uh, certainly authorized to, uh,

1809
01:15:51,959 --> 01:15:53,719
take handguns into their inventories.

1810
01:15:53,729 --> 01:15:53,760
Mm-hmm.

1811
01:15:53,779 --> 01:15:58,269
Uh, so if you, uh, feel that,
uh, your, your estate especially,

1812
01:15:58,769 --> 01:16:00,609
um, you can go that route.

1813
01:16:00,669 --> 01:16:04,759
Also, uh, Canada's National
Firearms Association has a new

1814
01:16:04,759 --> 01:16:08,209
program, the Save Firearms program.

1815
01:16:08,839 --> 01:16:11,909
Basically, if you find yourself
in a situation, especially if

1816
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:15,540
you're an executor or power of
attorney, we can assist you, okay?

1817
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:19,119
Uh, uh, NFA is a licensed
firearms business now.

1818
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:21,419
Uh, we have storage for firearms.

1819
01:16:21,419 --> 01:16:22,550
We can store firearms.

1820
01:16:22,580 --> 01:16:24,839
Uh, we can hold
registrations for firearms.

1821
01:16:24,849 --> 01:16:29,599
So if you find yourself in a situation
where you can no longer hold, uh,

1822
01:16:29,629 --> 01:16:33,270
a registration for a handgun or,
or, or, or something, even, uh,

1823
01:16:33,339 --> 01:16:37,809
previous prohibited class firearms,
uh, not in most cases OIC firearms,

1824
01:16:37,809 --> 01:16:38,849
and I'll touch on that in a minute.

1825
01:16:38,849 --> 01:16:39,080
Mm-hmm.

1826
01:16:39,379 --> 01:16:42,879
But previous, uh, prohibited class
firearms, uh, things like, uh,

1827
01:16:42,929 --> 01:16:49,724
automatics, converted automatics-
Sure Uh, uh, semi-autos prohibited

1828
01:16:49,724 --> 01:16:51,104
by OIC- Yeah … that sort of thing.

1829
01:16:51,424 --> 01:16:54,484
We can take them into our
inventory, and that can prevent

1830
01:16:54,484 --> 01:16:57,194
them from being destroyed, turned
into the police and destroyed.

1831
01:16:57,354 --> 01:17:00,274
Is that included with an NFA
membership, or is that on top of?

1832
01:17:00,314 --> 01:17:02,084
There's a- Pro- … probably
be storage fee.

1833
01:17:02,514 --> 01:17:04,583
Yeah, there are fees
involved- Yeah … obviously.

1834
01:17:04,853 --> 01:17:04,903
Yeah.

1835
01:17:04,964 --> 01:17:06,944
But no, a membership is not required.

1836
01:17:07,833 --> 01:17:08,253
Huh.

1837
01:17:08,333 --> 01:17:10,914
You should make membership
requirement, because not only

1838
01:17:10,914 --> 01:17:11,843
that- It's- … but they'll, uh

1839
01:17:12,173 --> 01:17:15,584
…
I would… You know, y- you would think
that we would do that, but I mean,

1840
01:17:15,584 --> 01:17:19,823
people are in all kinds of situations
now, and, uh, especially today,

1841
01:17:19,824 --> 01:17:21,524
people are really hurting financially.

1842
01:17:21,563 --> 01:17:21,773
This is true.

1843
01:17:21,774 --> 01:17:21,934
Okay?

1844
01:17:22,524 --> 01:17:24,983
So we judge every case on its own merits.

1845
01:17:25,243 --> 01:17:25,273
Okay.

1846
01:17:25,273 --> 01:17:29,713
It's like, i- i- you know, uh,
is it within, uh, our interests

1847
01:17:29,894 --> 01:17:33,174
to take this firearm into our
inventory, to store this firearm?

1848
01:17:33,453 --> 01:17:36,583
And it could be for, you know, for a
short period, could be for a long period.

1849
01:17:36,633 --> 01:17:36,883
Mm.

1850
01:17:36,923 --> 01:17:37,323
Okay?

1851
01:17:37,743 --> 01:17:40,373
Uh, there's a lot of people who
found themselves in cases where

1852
01:17:40,374 --> 01:17:43,873
it's like, ah, I, you know, I
gotta, I gotta get rid of this gun.

1853
01:17:43,883 --> 01:17:45,144
I'll transfer it to NFA.

1854
01:17:45,734 --> 01:17:48,864
Uh, I'll relicense myself, and
maybe a couple years in the future

1855
01:17:48,864 --> 01:17:51,024
with a change of government-
Yeah … then I c- then I can hold

1856
01:17:51,024 --> 01:17:52,363
a registration for this thing again.

1857
01:17:52,434 --> 01:17:52,843
Mm-hmm.

1858
01:17:52,993 --> 01:17:54,973
So there's, there's that as well.

1859
01:17:55,013 --> 01:17:58,873
Unfortunately, and it
was… I, I, I, I hate this.

1860
01:17:59,083 --> 01:18:02,634
All of this sort of came to
fruition, and it was bad timing

1861
01:18:02,663 --> 01:18:05,123
around the time of the OICs.

1862
01:18:05,273 --> 01:18:05,633
Mm.

1863
01:18:05,673 --> 01:18:08,323
I thought, you know, and we had
dealt with this problem for years.

1864
01:18:08,443 --> 01:18:08,653
Sure.

1865
01:18:08,663 --> 01:18:08,933
Okay?

1866
01:18:09,324 --> 01:18:13,793
And r- really, really worked towards
getting that, uh, BFL and setting

1867
01:18:13,794 --> 01:18:18,304
up this program, and all of a
sudden, you know, 2020, boom, OIC.

1868
01:18:18,803 --> 01:18:21,994
And people are going, "What can I
do about this?" And, you know, we

1869
01:18:21,994 --> 01:18:24,464
started advertising and saying,
"Hey, this is what we can do- Sure

1870
01:18:24,493 --> 01:18:27,903
for you." And they assumed that
that included OIC firearms.

1871
01:18:28,644 --> 01:18:29,084
Okay.

1872
01:18:29,254 --> 01:18:30,123
I see where this is go- Yeah.

1873
01:18:30,123 --> 01:18:30,223
I,

1874
01:18:30,233 --> 01:18:30,573
yeah.

1875
01:18:30,573 --> 01:18:30,943
Yeah.

1876
01:18:30,943 --> 01:18:32,783
I, I thought you were saying,
"I hate to say this," 'cause I

1877
01:18:32,783 --> 01:18:35,763
thought people are looking at you
like you're trying to monopolize

1878
01:18:35,763 --> 01:18:37,963
on the OIC or something, but, uh-

1879
01:18:37,993 --> 01:18:39,164
Yeah, yeah, exactly, but

1880
01:18:39,164 --> 01:18:40,163
it- Did it transmit it that way?

1881
01:18:40,163 --> 01:18:40,793
No.

1882
01:18:40,793 --> 01:18:41,063
No.

1883
01:18:41,063 --> 01:18:42,013
It was bad timing.

1884
01:18:42,153 --> 01:18:42,773
Just bad timing.

1885
01:18:42,793 --> 01:18:46,483
It was just bad timing, and, uh,
you know, we'd get contacts, you

1886
01:18:46,483 --> 01:18:47,983
know, "Help me save my guns." And-

1887
01:18:47,983 --> 01:18:48,353
Got it

1888
01:18:48,394 --> 01:18:53,293
…
you would have to tell people, "Look,
we, we… You can't just send them to

1889
01:18:53,324 --> 01:18:57,814
NFA, and we're going to shield them
from the liberal gun grab," because

1890
01:18:57,823 --> 01:18:59,524
legally you can't do that, right?

1891
01:18:59,593 --> 01:18:59,883
Why?

1892
01:19:00,343 --> 01:19:00,683
Why?

1893
01:19:00,763 --> 01:19:01,003
Yeah.

1894
01:19:02,104 --> 01:19:02,434
Why?

1895
01:19:02,524 --> 01:19:05,794
Because if police come for
the gun, it, for example, if

1896
01:19:05,794 --> 01:19:07,394
the, uh, amnesty had ended-

1897
01:19:07,764 --> 01:19:07,864
Mm-hmm

1898
01:19:08,034 --> 01:19:12,743
…
and, uh, NFA was in possession of the gun,
and there's only one way, there's only one

1899
01:19:12,744 --> 01:19:14,484
way NFA could be in possession of the gun.

1900
01:19:14,983 --> 01:19:18,913
Uh, generally speaking, OIC firearms
cannot be transferred, they cannot be

1901
01:19:18,914 --> 01:19:23,384
stored elsewhere except previously,
uh, r- restricted, previously

1902
01:19:23,394 --> 01:19:26,873
registered OIC firearms with
authorization of the provincial CFO.

1903
01:19:26,944 --> 01:19:30,593
Okay, so it's the authorization
to transport that's present-

1904
01:19:30,703 --> 01:19:34,724
preventing the, um, NFA from taking
possession from the individual side.

1905
01:19:34,724 --> 01:19:34,763
Well,

1906
01:19:34,763 --> 01:19:36,424
well, no, uh, we can.

1907
01:19:36,594 --> 01:19:39,763
We can store previously
registered OIC firearms, okay?

1908
01:19:39,783 --> 01:19:40,003
Yeah.

1909
01:19:40,053 --> 01:19:43,663
We are authorized to do that with
authorization of provincial CFO.

1910
01:19:43,713 --> 01:19:44,043
Right.

1911
01:19:44,094 --> 01:19:47,284
So if you cannot be in poss- in
possession of, say, your AR-15 or

1912
01:19:47,284 --> 01:19:52,814
your short-barreled rifle, uh, you
can seek authorization from your CFO-

1913
01:19:52,914 --> 01:19:53,244
Sure

1914
01:19:53,533 --> 01:19:56,033
for temporary or alternative storage-

1915
01:19:56,074 --> 01:19:56,324
Sure

1916
01:19:56,353 --> 01:19:57,773
…
with National Firearms Association.

1917
01:19:57,833 --> 01:19:58,223
Okay.

1918
01:19:58,713 --> 01:20:02,283
But again, previously unregistered
OIC firearms, it's a gray area.

1919
01:20:02,493 --> 01:20:05,183
There's no authorization
available, so what do you do?

1920
01:20:07,118 --> 01:20:09,768
Oh, I'm gonna spitball here 'cause
I'm a solutions kind of guy.

1921
01:20:09,838 --> 01:20:10,188
Okay.

1922
01:20:10,428 --> 01:20:13,988
But what about NFA field agents
being listed under the NFA business

1923
01:20:13,988 --> 01:20:18,097
license and being covered through
the business transport, uh, permit?

1924
01:20:18,558 --> 01:20:21,207
Maybe a charge for them to go out
and physically have to pick 'em up

1925
01:20:21,217 --> 01:20:23,748
because that's not gonna be mailing
back and forth sort of thing.

1926
01:20:23,748 --> 01:20:23,877
But

1927
01:20:23,977 --> 01:20:27,628
the- Well, well, well, some are, but
I mean, uh, due to the logistics and

1928
01:20:27,647 --> 01:20:31,378
the geography of this country, uh,
most of the firearms are shipped.

1929
01:20:31,378 --> 01:20:31,432
They

1930
01:20:31,432 --> 01:20:31,487
do.

1931
01:20:31,487 --> 01:20:31,707
And

1932
01:20:31,798 --> 01:20:33,068
they have, they, they have to be shipped.

1933
01:20:33,068 --> 01:20:36,877
And once the authorization is, is,
is approved, uh, the firearm can

1934
01:20:36,878 --> 01:20:39,627
be shipped to, uh, our facilities,
and we will store the firearm.

1935
01:20:39,947 --> 01:20:41,717
But you can ship under
your own business license.

1936
01:20:41,958 --> 01:20:42,238
Yes.

1937
01:20:42,517 --> 01:20:42,807
Okay.

1938
01:20:42,818 --> 01:20:46,868
And so if a business, an NFA field agent
goes and picks it up, now it's under

1939
01:20:46,927 --> 01:20:48,263
NFA control, under NFA business license.

1940
01:20:48,263 --> 01:20:48,388
Yeah, if,

1941
01:20:48,388 --> 01:20:52,177
if, if that individual is, uh, listed on
the bus- on the business firearms license.

1942
01:20:52,507 --> 01:20:52,757
Right.

1943
01:20:52,757 --> 01:20:55,677
Now, bro, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just
spitballing, but it might- Yeah … might,

1944
01:20:55,677 --> 01:20:58,828
might be, might be an extra little
thing to be able to help the, uh-

1945
01:20:58,857 --> 01:20:59,167
Yeah.

1946
01:20:59,167 --> 01:21:03,817
No, I mean, and, you know, if this is
happening in whatever pro- province

1947
01:21:03,817 --> 01:21:05,537
concerned, great, fine, good.

1948
01:21:05,548 --> 01:21:08,858
But I mean- Mm-hmm … it's a huge
country, and people all over this country-

1949
01:21:08,868 --> 01:21:12,617
Sure … find themselves in this, in these
situations, so in, in those cases, the

1950
01:21:12,618 --> 01:21:14,147
firearm has to be packed up and shipped.

1951
01:21:14,338 --> 01:21:14,608
Okay.

1952
01:21:15,658 --> 01:21:19,687
But, uh, yeah, safe firearms, and a lot
of this is still evolving too, right?

1953
01:21:19,737 --> 01:21:23,417
So, uh, I always encourage people,
uh, if you have a problem with a

1954
01:21:23,417 --> 01:21:27,987
firearm, a registered firearm, uh,
that even a firearm you think you

1955
01:21:27,987 --> 01:21:29,397
may not be in compliance with it-

1956
01:21:29,728 --> 01:21:30,087
Mm-hmm

1957
01:21:30,097 --> 01:21:36,288
uh, contact us, and w- we'll, uh,
we'll give you a straight, real-world

1958
01:21:36,288 --> 01:21:37,717
answer on where you're standing.

1959
01:21:37,728 --> 01:21:39,898
We're not gonna couch it
in all kinds of this, that.

1960
01:21:40,217 --> 01:21:42,627
It's not gonna be like talking
to the firearms program.

1961
01:21:42,637 --> 01:21:42,997
Mm.

1962
01:21:43,118 --> 01:21:46,228
You're, you're talking to somebody who's
gonna say, "Look, this is what it is.

1963
01:21:46,317 --> 01:21:51,107
This is what your options are, and this is
what, this is not what your options are."

1964
01:21:51,107 --> 01:21:51,277
Right.

1965
01:21:51,277 --> 01:21:56,867
"And, uh, you have, uh, this way of going
forward to, uh, uh, com- uh, to be in

1966
01:21:56,868 --> 01:21:58,407
compliance or come back into compliance."

1967
01:21:59,217 --> 01:22:02,718
So I spent eight years fighting
the federal government-

1968
01:22:02,807 --> 01:22:03,117
Yep

1969
01:22:03,298 --> 01:22:03,798
…
and winning.

1970
01:22:04,387 --> 01:22:07,537
That's eight years of fight, and
you gotta dedicate yourself to that.

1971
01:22:07,688 --> 01:22:07,808
Yeah.

1972
01:22:07,808 --> 01:22:10,667
Spent eight years fighting a
rogue individual doing things

1973
01:22:10,667 --> 01:22:11,667
he shouldn't have been doing-

1974
01:22:11,677 --> 01:22:11,917
Yeah

1975
01:22:11,978 --> 01:22:12,547
and winning.

1976
01:22:13,887 --> 01:22:18,817
Got the apology letters, got the sums,
all the rest, but it takes a toll.

1977
01:22:19,397 --> 01:22:24,177
What toll has this taken
on you constantly fighting?

1978
01:22:27,854 --> 01:22:31,284
Boy, I, I don't really know
how to answer that question.

1979
01:22:31,314 --> 01:22:32,294
Uh, is there a toll?

1980
01:22:32,294 --> 01:22:33,074
I guess there is.

1981
01:22:33,074 --> 01:22:36,944
There, there was certain- certainly
a toll on Rick Igerich, wasn't there?

1982
01:22:37,533 --> 01:22:41,454
And I gotta tell you, that
guy, um, he never let up.

1983
01:22:41,854 --> 01:22:45,924
Uh, once he became, uh, president
of NFA, it was go, go, go, go.

1984
01:22:46,553 --> 01:22:46,963
All right.

1985
01:22:46,973 --> 01:22:49,644
I mean, he was, he was attending
events, he was going to gun shows,

1986
01:22:49,644 --> 01:22:52,533
he was traveling internationally,
uh, uh, representing us.

1987
01:22:52,534 --> 01:22:55,423
Uh, NFA is a member of the
World Forum on the Future of

1988
01:22:55,424 --> 01:22:57,454
Sport Shooting Activities, WFSA.

1989
01:22:57,694 --> 01:23:02,444
And, uh, this is the, uh, international
group that looks at, uh, uh, firearms

1990
01:23:02,444 --> 01:23:06,243
laws and legislation, what may be coming
down the road, especially from the UN.

1991
01:23:07,063 --> 01:23:09,074
And he would represent
us at those meetings.

1992
01:23:09,113 --> 01:23:13,763
Um, and, uh, it was just the
day-to-day stuff that, uh

1993
01:23:15,773 --> 01:23:22,264
I, I, I started to see it, you know,
um, Rick's, Rick's really looking tired.

1994
01:23:22,304 --> 01:23:24,563
Rick's starting to
really sound frustrated.

1995
01:23:24,834 --> 01:23:25,084
Mm.

1996
01:23:25,114 --> 01:23:28,204
And perfectly understandable because
we're all in that situation, right?

1997
01:23:28,204 --> 01:23:32,404
I mean, we- we're into this, I mean,
we're, we're six years into these OICs,

1998
01:23:32,433 --> 01:23:37,554
and my God, it's gotta be, what, h- it's
over a decade of, of liberal governments

1999
01:23:37,554 --> 01:23:39,624
attacking us at every opportunity.

2000
01:23:40,313 --> 01:23:40,894
Take a toll?

2001
01:23:40,894 --> 01:23:41,833
Absolutely does.

2002
01:23:41,864 --> 01:23:45,903
I mean, it, you know, it takes a, it
takes a mental toll, I mean, just dealing

2003
01:23:45,903 --> 01:23:51,004
with people, average people, you know,
regular people, you know, Canadians

2004
01:23:51,004 --> 01:23:54,414
who should never have been put in a
position to have to deal with this stuff.

2005
01:23:54,443 --> 01:23:58,524
I mean, if the laws were reasonable
and sane, you know, and there were

2006
01:23:58,524 --> 01:24:03,673
straight paths forward, you know,
the, uh, there would be no problem.

2007
01:24:03,693 --> 01:24:09,593
But these are just regular Canadians with
regular lives, you know, uh, that have

2008
01:24:09,593 --> 01:24:14,413
been put in what m- in many cases are
just, like, insane situations because

2009
01:24:14,413 --> 01:24:19,513
of, of, of government actions, and
th- that's, that's just unforgivable.

2010
01:24:19,524 --> 01:24:22,114
That, that's, that's the
most galling part of this.

2011
01:24:22,323 --> 01:24:25,683
You know, these are not people trying
to skirt around the edges of the law

2012
01:24:25,693 --> 01:24:27,763
or s- you know, sneakily do stuff.

2013
01:24:27,783 --> 01:24:31,973
These are people who are law-abiding,
wanna be law-abiding, wanna be in

2014
01:24:31,973 --> 01:24:35,963
compliance, and are finding themselves
in this situation, uh, due to government

2015
01:24:36,243 --> 01:24:38,803
and bureaucratic edict cannot.

2016
01:24:40,293 --> 01:24:41,813
It's hard to talk about
yourself, isn't it?

2017
01:24:42,693 --> 01:24:43,474
Oh, boy.

2018
01:24:45,693 --> 01:24:48,043
Um, do you see light at
the end of the tunnel?

2019
01:24:48,094 --> 01:24:49,474
Oh, absolutely.

2020
01:24:49,893 --> 01:24:53,313
You know, um, I mean, the biggest
problem we have right now is the,

2021
01:24:53,313 --> 01:24:57,673
uh, the OIC gun grabs, obviously, and
they've been chipping away at this, uh,

2022
01:24:57,683 --> 01:25:00,013
since they got going in, in, in 2020.

2023
01:25:00,013 --> 01:25:00,573
Mm.

2024
01:25:00,573 --> 01:25:03,593
And yeah, they have gotten some
guns, you know, by hook or by crook.

2025
01:25:03,653 --> 01:25:10,093
Uh, some people, uh, voluntarily,
uh, uh, participated in, uh, the

2026
01:25:10,094 --> 01:25:15,273
recent confiscation registry that
ended March 31st, and not a lot, uh,

2027
01:25:15,353 --> 01:25:19,733
certainly not, uh, given the per capita
numbers of OIC firearms in Canada.

2028
01:25:19,783 --> 01:25:23,063
But, but again, you know, some people
think, get scared, get frustrated,

2029
01:25:23,063 --> 01:25:27,353
don't see a way out, and decide, "Well,
this is, uh, my opportunity to comply

2030
01:25:27,363 --> 01:25:31,853
and maybe, maybe be compensated for
it," and that was not a guarantee.

2031
01:25:32,443 --> 01:25:32,763
Yeah.

2032
01:25:32,883 --> 01:25:35,413
I- A- A lot of people said, "Well,
you know, they'll, they'll pay

2033
01:25:35,413 --> 01:25:38,880
me for it," and they find out,
"You're gonna pay me what?" So

2034
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,480
136,000 is what they budgeted for,
which doesn't even- It doesn't

2035
01:25:42,480 --> 01:25:44,650
even come close to touching.

2036
01:25:44,970 --> 01:25:49,839
And yet the compliance rate is, I
think, less than half that of what

2037
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:53,840
has been turned forward, and I have
a question of how they arise at those

2038
01:25:53,850 --> 01:25:55,719
numbers, arrive at those numbers.

2039
01:25:55,750 --> 01:25:56,100
Okay.

2040
01:25:56,479 --> 01:26:00,480
Are those numbers, uh,
conflated with business returns?

2041
01:26:00,480 --> 01:26:02,929
'Cause businesses I know,
and a lot of businesses-

2042
01:26:03,139 --> 01:26:03,369
Yeah

2043
01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:05,810
…
like this is just a stock
item, it's an inventory item.

2044
01:26:05,869 --> 01:26:08,069
I've been sitting on this thing for
years now, and they- Yeah … they-

2045
01:26:08,330 --> 01:26:09,520
And especially today.

2046
01:26:09,610 --> 01:26:09,780
Right.

2047
01:26:09,780 --> 01:26:14,279
You know, it's like, uh, every firearms
business in Canada is hurting real bad.

2048
01:26:14,309 --> 01:26:14,669
Yeah.

2049
01:26:14,940 --> 01:26:15,440
Okay?

2050
01:26:15,460 --> 01:26:20,259
And the part- part of the, uh, part of
this, uh, initiative was to, uh, drive

2051
01:26:20,269 --> 01:26:21,909
firearms businesses out of business.

2052
01:26:21,949 --> 01:26:24,220
This is another way that
we can end this in Canada.

2053
01:26:24,659 --> 01:26:28,979
Uh, if most of the firearms businesses
are gone, nobody can buy a gun, and, uh-

2054
01:26:29,069 --> 01:26:31,409
Have you had that told to you,
or is that your perception?

2055
01:26:32,238 --> 01:26:32,838
Oh,

2056
01:26:32,838 --> 01:26:34,018
uh, no, this is my belief

2057
01:26:34,318 --> 01:26:34,688
Okay.

2058
01:26:34,758 --> 01:26:35,158
Okay?

2059
01:26:35,608 --> 01:26:39,748
Um, certainly, I, I'm feeling
it, uh, with my business, and,

2060
01:26:39,748 --> 01:26:42,198
uh, if you look at it logically,
that, that can be the only reason.

2061
01:26:42,528 --> 01:26:43,728
Are the numbers conflated?

2062
01:26:43,808 --> 01:26:45,318
And yeah, I'll tell you how.

2063
01:26:46,198 --> 01:26:50,318
Um, a lot of this, a lot of the numbers
that the federal government was, uh,

2064
01:26:50,357 --> 01:26:53,217
is dealing with, was dealing with
when they came up with the ideas,

2065
01:26:53,217 --> 01:27:01,398
uh, uh, of these OICs, were firearms
registered in the old long gun registry.

2066
01:27:01,648 --> 01:27:02,758
Mm.

2067
01:27:03,148 --> 01:27:03,598
Okay?

2068
01:27:03,648 --> 01:27:06,948
The one that isn't worth
the paper it's written on.

2069
01:27:06,977 --> 01:27:10,178
Exactly, because officially, that
was all the firearms in Canada-

2070
01:27:10,178 --> 01:27:12,268
Mm-hmm … uh, uh, prior to 2012.

2071
01:27:12,497 --> 01:27:12,917
Right.

2072
01:27:12,938 --> 01:27:16,298
Because they had 99.9 perc- percent
cl- compliance, don't you know?

2073
01:27:16,298 --> 01:27:16,317
Of

2074
01:27:16,317 --> 01:27:17,037
course they did.

2075
01:27:17,078 --> 01:27:17,088
Oh

2076
01:27:17,267 --> 01:27:19,847
my God, what a- It was just a fantastic-

2077
01:27:20,367 --> 01:27:20,627
Yeah

2078
01:27:20,668 --> 01:27:24,628
…
um, so yeah, when, so when they s-
uh, crunched the numbers, uh, for the

2079
01:27:24,628 --> 01:27:27,887
number of firearms that they wanted
prohibited by OIC, they went back to the

2080
01:27:27,887 --> 01:27:32,537
old long gun registry and, uh, and took
a look at, uh, the numbers of guns, uh,

2081
01:27:32,977 --> 01:27:34,518
model by model, make by make- Mm-hmm

2082
01:27:34,527 --> 01:27:36,097
uh, that actually got registered.

2083
01:27:36,778 --> 01:27:42,387
Did you know that there are only
4,000 Ruger Mini-14 rifles in Canada?

2084
01:27:42,528 --> 01:27:43,948
Oh, yeah, that number totally checks out.

2085
01:27:44,998 --> 01:27:46,377
Well, it just makes sense, doesn't it?

2086
01:27:46,397 --> 01:27:48,531
I mean, this is a fire-
I mean, they've only- I

2087
01:27:48,531 --> 01:27:50,417
mean, The A-Team didn't
do anything for that gun.

2088
01:27:50,558 --> 01:27:52,477
I mean, there's no popularity around it.

2089
01:27:52,547 --> 01:27:56,718
I mean, they've only been imported in,
into Canada, you know, uh, since 1972.

2090
01:27:56,718 --> 01:27:57,487
Mm-hmm.

2091
01:27:57,497 --> 01:28:01,507
And, you know, it's not the type of
firearm that, uh, anybody really wanted.

2092
01:28:01,507 --> 01:28:05,307
So yeah, you know- Well, the, the registry
says 4,000, so we can manage that, right?

2093
01:28:05,337 --> 01:28:05,617
Yeah.

2094
01:28:05,778 --> 01:28:08,257
It's a- … true and
accurate number, for sure.

2095
01:28:08,888 --> 01:28:11,307
And extrapolate that on,
on the other firearms- Mm

2096
01:28:11,307 --> 01:28:15,107
that, uh, were registered, and, and y-
you remember that, you know, that there

2097
01:28:15,107 --> 01:28:18,027
was a lot of non-compliance back then
because people- Oh, massive … yeah,

2098
01:28:18,028 --> 01:28:22,467
and people knew what, uh, what was gonna
happen, and that was basically proven by

2099
01:28:22,467 --> 01:28:26,257
the actions of this government because
y- a lot of people, if you registered,

2100
01:28:26,278 --> 01:28:31,177
uh, uh, what is now an OIC firearm in
the old long gun registry, well, you got

2101
01:28:31,177 --> 01:28:34,688
a letter saying, "We have information
that you held a registration for

2102
01:28:34,688 --> 01:28:37,737
this firearm, uh, uh, prior to 2012."

2103
01:28:37,737 --> 01:28:37,907
Yeah.

2104
01:28:37,907 --> 01:28:40,907
"If you are still in possession
of it, you will be required

2105
01:28:40,907 --> 01:28:42,437
to do such and such and such."

2106
01:28:42,477 --> 01:28:42,958
Mm-hmm.

2107
01:28:43,217 --> 01:28:45,697
They don't know if you're s-
still in possession of it or not,

2108
01:28:45,708 --> 01:28:47,987
but records from the registry.

2109
01:28:49,587 --> 01:28:52,577
And everyone said, "Oh, that's
just tinfoil hat." "You're just

2110
01:28:53,017 --> 01:28:53,577
paranoid." Registration.

2111
01:28:53,598 --> 01:28:53,798
Yeah.

2112
01:28:53,827 --> 01:28:54,528
Come on.

2113
01:28:54,577 --> 01:28:56,167
Registration leads to confiscation.

2114
01:28:56,197 --> 01:28:56,807
Nah.

2115
01:28:56,857 --> 01:28:58,447
No, they'd never do that.

2116
01:29:00,300 --> 01:29:03,170
Um, so driving businesses out.

2117
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:03,610
Yep.

2118
01:29:04,020 --> 01:29:09,510
Uh, I've told this story before, but when
I started the Silvercore Club back in the

2119
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:15,040
day, they- Yeah … they, the firearms
program says, "Okay, uh, we want you to

2120
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:19,329
belong to a gun club or range in order for
us to issue an authorization to transport,

2121
01:29:19,329 --> 01:29:22,729
'cause that shows us a legitimate reason
why you're gonna have to transport it."

2122
01:29:22,739 --> 01:29:23,522
And a little- And

2123
01:29:23,522 --> 01:29:26,709
that, that was a policy that was
widely adopted by CFOs nationwide.

2124
01:29:26,759 --> 01:29:27,039
Right.

2125
01:29:27,079 --> 01:29:29,549
And then a lit- Yeah … a little further
down they said, "Well, if you've got a

2126
01:29:29,550 --> 01:29:33,149
restricted license, well, maybe we need to
know you belong to a gun club or range if

2127
01:29:33,150 --> 01:29:34,750
you're getting one or having one renewed."

2128
01:29:34,889 --> 01:29:35,129
Yeah.

2129
01:29:35,189 --> 01:29:38,630
And, um, spottily implemented
province by province.

2130
01:29:38,689 --> 01:29:40,940
In different provinces
right across the country.

2131
01:29:40,940 --> 01:29:44,509
I mean, if you look at Quebec, I
mean, in order to, uh, hold the

2132
01:29:44,509 --> 01:29:48,560
registration and to have ATC, you have
to demonstrate that you att- you went

2133
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:50,109
to the range at least once a year.

2134
01:29:50,169 --> 01:29:50,559
Sure.

2135
01:29:50,939 --> 01:29:52,609
So I-

2136
01:29:52,689 --> 01:29:53,569
And they check up on it

2137
01:29:54,389 --> 01:29:57,699
…
I, I hired a lawyer, 'cause I said,
"I've, I've read the act, I've

2138
01:29:57,700 --> 01:30:00,140
read the regulations, I've read the
code, I've looked at everything.

2139
01:30:00,150 --> 01:30:02,389
You don't have the authority to do this.

2140
01:30:02,470 --> 01:30:03,729
I'm gonna challenge it
in court." Yeah, yeah.

2141
01:30:03,729 --> 01:30:04,049
Right?

2142
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:05,239
Young, naive me.

2143
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:08,999
And the firearms officer comes and he
explains, and I've told this part before,

2144
01:30:09,339 --> 01:30:12,079
says, "Trav, we're the federal government,
we got all the money in the world.

2145
01:30:12,079 --> 01:30:12,829
We got your money.

2146
01:30:13,079 --> 01:30:13,650
We'll hang it up- There you go

2147
01:30:13,650 --> 01:30:14,499
forever." Right?

2148
01:30:14,630 --> 01:30:14,670
Yeah.

2149
01:30:14,670 --> 01:30:15,980
"Start, start a club," right?

2150
01:30:15,999 --> 01:30:18,489
And I said, "Well, I don't have
property in the range." "No, no.

2151
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:19,399
Club," right?

2152
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:19,840
Yeah.

2153
01:30:20,490 --> 01:30:20,990
Okay.

2154
01:30:21,299 --> 01:30:27,449
What I haven't told before was, uh,
a bit of the impetus that I think

2155
01:30:27,460 --> 01:30:32,819
around that, because around the exact
same time, um, that same firearms

2156
01:30:32,819 --> 01:30:35,620
officer says, "Oh, Trav, you know,
we're all getting called back east.

2157
01:30:35,620 --> 01:30:39,929
We've got to go to Ottawa, we've got a
big meeting, firearms officers, we're all-

2158
01:30:40,420 --> 01:30:40,620
Yeah

2159
01:30:40,620 --> 01:30:45,249
…
all meeting up." I guess some, uh,
kid took a gun to school, handgun.

2160
01:30:45,259 --> 01:30:45,279
Yeah.

2161
01:30:45,319 --> 01:30:48,010
And, um, I think it was elementary school.

2162
01:30:48,350 --> 01:30:48,470
Yeah.

2163
01:30:48,470 --> 01:30:51,959
He said, his words, "It was show
and tell sort of thing." It, it

2164
01:30:51,959 --> 01:30:55,599
wasn't, there was nothing nefarious
that was done with it, but-

2165
01:30:55,639 --> 01:30:56,289
Yeah, it's a kid.

2166
01:30:56,569 --> 01:30:56,979
Right.

2167
01:30:57,009 --> 01:31:01,806
Uh, but they want to, um- then wanna meet
with the firearms officers, and they're

2168
01:31:01,856 --> 01:31:03,206
g- they're setting some course of action.

2169
01:31:04,266 --> 01:31:05,626
"I'll tell you all about
it when I get back."

2170
01:31:05,716 --> 01:31:05,936
Okay.

2171
01:31:05,986 --> 01:31:09,706
"
Oh, okay." Comes on back, says,
"Sorry, Trav, love to, but, you know,

2172
01:31:09,746 --> 01:31:14,666
I'm a man of my word, but I've also
had to sign an NDA, so, uh, an NDA

2173
01:31:14,706 --> 01:31:16,025
doesn't allow me to talk about it.

2174
01:31:16,025 --> 01:31:21,095
But what I c- can say is that the,
uh, firearms program and federal

2175
01:31:21,095 --> 01:31:25,245
government is coming up with a
three-pronged approach to limiting

2176
01:31:25,255 --> 01:31:27,496
legal firearms ownership in Canada."

2177
01:31:27,575 --> 01:31:27,785
Hmm.

2178
01:31:28,435 --> 01:31:30,066
Not illegal, legal-

2179
01:31:30,075 --> 01:31:30,455
Legal

2180
01:31:30,505 --> 01:31:32,146
…
firearms ownership in Canada.

2181
01:31:32,546 --> 01:31:36,425
And it was right around that time
when the, uh, requirement to belong

2182
01:31:36,426 --> 01:31:37,756
to a gun club or range came out.

2183
01:31:38,265 --> 01:31:39,735
I think that was one of the prongs.

2184
01:31:40,055 --> 01:31:43,975
I think another prong was going after
the businesses, 'cause if you can cut

2185
01:31:43,976 --> 01:31:47,976
the head off the snake- Yeah … as
I've heard that, uh, used around

2186
01:31:47,985 --> 01:31:49,835
the firearms officers in the past.

2187
01:31:50,235 --> 01:31:50,745
Interesting.

2188
01:31:50,836 --> 01:31:51,136
Yeah.

2189
01:31:51,136 --> 01:31:53,425
If you can cut the head off
the snake, the rest will fall.

2190
01:31:54,125 --> 01:31:59,405
So when you say it's your
perception that the, um, uh,

2191
01:31:59,915 --> 01:32:04,115
businesses are being targeted, I'm
going back to around 2005- Yeah

2192
01:32:04,115 --> 01:32:05,835
and that was part of the plan.

2193
01:32:06,045 --> 01:32:08,325
Now, it wasn't explicitly told to me.

2194
01:32:08,325 --> 01:32:11,425
I connected those dots because right
after that they came out with the,

2195
01:32:11,426 --> 01:32:14,345
uh, requi- requirement to belong to
a gun club or a range- Yeah … and

2196
01:32:14,356 --> 01:32:17,255
right after that they started
cracking down on firearms businesses.

2197
01:32:17,676 --> 01:32:20,475
And some of it was like
the film industry one.

2198
01:32:20,485 --> 01:32:20,505
Yeah.

2199
01:32:20,515 --> 01:32:23,525
Everyone could get a film industry
business license, and then all of a sudden

2200
01:32:23,525 --> 01:32:29,046
that became really hard, and then there
was those, uh, uh, police officers who

2201
01:32:29,046 --> 01:32:32,056
were doing their own film business- Mm-hmm
… and cutting corners and doing… Like,

2202
01:32:32,115 --> 01:32:33,676
there, there's that whole shady thing.

2203
01:32:33,706 --> 01:32:33,996
Yeah, yeah.

2204
01:32:33,996 --> 01:32:36,345
I'm sure if you talk to Tom Falcon,
he can fill you in on that one.

2205
01:32:36,356 --> 01:32:36,395
Oh, yes.

2206
01:32:36,915 --> 01:32:37,155
Um-

2207
01:32:37,155 --> 01:32:39,115
Tom's got s- Tom's got some stories.

2208
01:32:39,145 --> 01:32:39,725
Oh, yeah.

2209
01:32:40,275 --> 01:32:44,775
But, um, uh, and there was some
people who were actually doing

2210
01:32:44,775 --> 01:32:47,756
things shady that they shouldn't have
been that were, weren't even cops.

2211
01:32:47,825 --> 01:32:50,415
Uh, uh, uh, always are, always will be.

2212
01:32:50,636 --> 01:32:50,956
Right.

2213
01:32:51,185 --> 01:32:52,635
Invest- investigate them and charge them.

2214
01:32:52,905 --> 01:32:53,785
100%.

2215
01:32:53,845 --> 01:32:54,085
Yeah.

2216
01:32:54,255 --> 01:32:59,436
I think, uh, I think that was a
big push, and you saw the impact of

2217
01:32:59,436 --> 01:33:00,555
what they started putting in- Yeah

2218
01:33:00,555 --> 01:33:02,795
on business license conditions-

2219
01:33:02,845 --> 01:33:03,155
Yes

2220
01:33:03,185 --> 01:33:06,825
…
where the law wouldn't permit them
to put it on their business license.

2221
01:33:06,825 --> 01:33:07,015
I,

2222
01:33:07,095 --> 01:33:08,715
I, I've, I've experienced that.

2223
01:33:08,886 --> 01:33:09,576
Okay.

2224
01:33:09,576 --> 01:33:09,845
Okay?

2225
01:33:09,845 --> 01:33:12,995
But even before that, I mean, even when
they brought in long gun registration,

2226
01:33:12,996 --> 01:33:16,695
I mean, I, I swear half the businesses,
and, and mostly, you know, the

2227
01:33:16,695 --> 01:33:21,226
mom-and-pop businesses, uh, you know,
in East Haystack, uh, Saskatchewan- Mm

2228
01:33:21,365 --> 01:33:24,225
you know, selling guns for years,
uh, you know, out of the hardware

2229
01:33:24,225 --> 01:33:27,485
store, a lot of those closed down-
Yeah … just stopped selling guns,

2230
01:33:27,515 --> 01:33:28,565
and that was part of the plan.

2231
01:33:31,086 --> 01:33:32,926
So where do we go from here?

2232
01:33:32,946 --> 01:33:38,576
Well, uh, I believe the NFA's on the
Conservative Party of Canada's Outdoors-

2233
01:33:38,706 --> 01:33:39,156
Yes

2234
01:33:39,185 --> 01:33:39,896
…
Committee now.

2235
01:33:39,966 --> 01:33:40,066
Yeah.

2236
01:33:40,066 --> 01:33:41,376
C- can you tell me about that?

2237
01:33:41,935 --> 01:33:46,455
Uh, very positive, uh, uh, devel- you
know, very positive development for us.

2238
01:33:46,496 --> 01:33:50,476
Uh, this is the, uh, committee
that, uh, will be, and is already

2239
01:33:50,476 --> 01:33:54,156
approaching, uh, the types of firearms
law reforms that will be enacted

2240
01:33:54,156 --> 01:33:55,535
when Conservatives form government.

2241
01:33:55,576 --> 01:33:55,656
Yeah.

2242
01:33:55,666 --> 01:33:56,006
Okay?

2243
01:33:56,715 --> 01:33:57,746
And you know what?

2244
01:33:57,746 --> 01:34:00,815
A- and this is all part of the progression
of, of gun politics in Canada- Mm-hmm

2245
01:34:00,816 --> 01:34:01,576
which I love.

2246
01:34:01,625 --> 01:34:05,106
I've loved this, and I've, I've
studied this for over 30 years.

2247
01:34:05,805 --> 01:34:11,295
I love this, and we are finally at a point
where we have people in political parties,

2248
01:34:11,336 --> 01:34:17,395
and I'm talking about MPs, who understand
the firearms issue the way we do.

2249
01:34:17,566 --> 01:34:18,205
Mm-hmm.

2250
01:34:18,295 --> 01:34:18,815
Okay?

2251
01:34:19,055 --> 01:34:19,735
And they know-

2252
01:34:20,106 --> 01:34:21,305
You're seeing that now, aren't you?

2253
01:34:21,305 --> 01:34:21,776
I, I know.

2254
01:34:21,776 --> 01:34:24,885
It's like, uh, uh, you know, people
who, you know, experienced the long

2255
01:34:24,885 --> 01:34:29,205
gun registry, people who understand
the way the licensing system works, uh,

2256
01:34:29,235 --> 01:34:31,935
people who are caught up in these OICs.

2257
01:34:31,935 --> 01:34:32,175
Mm-hmm.

2258
01:34:32,175 --> 01:34:36,415
And the, e- you don't have to… I, I'm
finding less and less that I'm having

2259
01:34:36,416 --> 01:34:38,335
to educate these people, which I love.

2260
01:34:38,336 --> 01:34:38,775
It's great.

2261
01:34:38,785 --> 01:34:39,075
No kidding.

2262
01:34:39,075 --> 01:34:42,685
And it's like, "Okay, well, okay,
uh, okay, sir, this is the way

2263
01:34:42,685 --> 01:34:44,435
it is. They said…" "No, no,
no, it's okay. I already know."

2264
01:34:44,645 --> 01:34:44,875
Yeah.

2265
01:34:44,946 --> 01:34:46,135
And I'm going, "Great."

2266
01:34:47,505 --> 01:34:48,336
What a boon, eh?

2267
01:34:48,365 --> 01:34:50,195
What, what… It, it's fantastic.

2268
01:34:50,196 --> 01:34:53,936
I mean, when you have people who
have common sense, understand what

2269
01:34:53,936 --> 01:34:57,896
has been done to, uh, uh, legal gun
owners in Canada over the years,

2270
01:34:58,215 --> 01:35:00,255
where we are now, now with the…

2271
01:35:00,535 --> 01:35:03,995
W- we've got the most restrictive
legislation, orders and council,

2272
01:35:04,005 --> 01:35:06,775
everything, that we've ever had
in the history of this country.

2273
01:35:06,815 --> 01:35:07,235
Mm-hmm.

2274
01:35:07,475 --> 01:35:08,455
Are we a safer country?

2275
01:35:09,782 --> 01:35:11,442
No, I don't think the numbers
would back that one up

2276
01:35:11,612 --> 01:35:12,212
Certainly not.

2277
01:35:12,222 --> 01:35:13,642
What's going on in our cities.

2278
01:35:14,152 --> 01:35:18,352
Um, uh, people- I think people recognize
that w- that we have, uh, a very

2279
01:35:18,352 --> 01:35:19,662
bad problem with the legal system.

2280
01:35:19,671 --> 01:35:23,872
Mm. I think people recognize that, uh…
And, and, and you know, I, I, I don't

2281
01:35:23,872 --> 01:35:26,812
think it's a problem with law enforcement
because they can catch them all day long.

2282
01:35:26,892 --> 01:35:27,322
Mm.

2283
01:35:27,392 --> 01:35:30,401
But I mean, once they get them in court
and they get kicked loose, what do you do?

2284
01:35:30,582 --> 01:35:31,041
Arrest them.

2285
01:35:31,041 --> 01:35:31,152
Arrest them.

2286
01:35:31,152 --> 01:35:32,232
All you can do is arrest them again.

2287
01:35:32,271 --> 01:35:33,181
I'll double arrest you.

2288
01:35:33,201 --> 01:35:33,602
Here you go.

2289
01:35:33,602 --> 01:35:34,291
Triple arrest you.

2290
01:35:34,312 --> 01:35:34,842
Here you go.

2291
01:35:35,801 --> 01:35:39,152
It's like, it's, it, it very
much is a revolving door.

2292
01:35:39,152 --> 01:35:42,342
You know, they talk about a revolving
door legal system in the United States.

2293
01:35:42,342 --> 01:35:43,851
Canada has had that for decades.

2294
01:35:43,861 --> 01:35:49,202
Mm. And, and until we get serious
about, um, I hate to say it,

2295
01:35:49,211 --> 01:35:51,691
punishing violent crimes, you know.

2296
01:35:51,782 --> 01:35:52,871
Uh, does a…

2297
01:35:53,751 --> 01:35:55,772
Can a finger behind bars pull a trigger?

2298
01:35:55,852 --> 01:35:56,541
Mm-hmm.

2299
01:35:56,631 --> 01:35:57,111
You know?

2300
01:35:57,601 --> 01:35:58,491
Uh, probably not.

2301
01:35:58,571 --> 01:35:59,061
Mm-hmm.

2302
01:35:59,221 --> 01:36:01,971
You're not gonna have that, the
same kind of access to firearms.

2303
01:36:02,001 --> 01:36:05,662
And, you know, we do have easy
access to firearms in Canada,

2304
01:36:05,701 --> 01:36:06,941
not legal firearms certainly.

2305
01:36:06,951 --> 01:36:11,372
Mm. But, you know, uh, w- we, we
share a, a very, very long and mostly

2306
01:36:11,372 --> 01:36:14,241
uncontrolled border with the United
States, and the, the fact of the matter,

2307
01:36:14,271 --> 01:36:17,971
as long as there is a demand for-

2308
01:36:18,032 --> 01:36:18,791
There'll be a supply

2309
01:36:18,791 --> 01:36:20,162
e- e- exactly.

2310
01:36:20,181 --> 01:36:23,811
And whenever I talk to- That's one thing
a lot of politicians don't get right now.

2311
01:36:23,812 --> 01:36:26,131
The, "Well, why are we having this
problem, you know, with all these guns

2312
01:36:26,131 --> 01:36:29,352
coming into Canada?" And it's like,
"Well, I mean, we gotta improve border

2313
01:36:29,352 --> 01:36:33,212
security." And I, I guess you can
always make a case for that, right?

2314
01:36:33,212 --> 01:36:33,372
Sure.

2315
01:36:34,142 --> 01:36:38,341
But again, they, they don't, they seem
to miss this part about the demand.

2316
01:36:38,431 --> 01:36:39,011
Mm-hmm.

2317
01:36:39,231 --> 01:36:43,681
It's like if we just secure the
border, um, y- you know, m- make it,

2318
01:36:43,712 --> 01:36:46,581
you know, very, very difficult to
get guns across, they won't come.

2319
01:36:46,721 --> 01:36:46,921
Mm.

2320
01:36:46,931 --> 01:36:49,971
No, they're gonna continue to
come, and they're… If, if they

2321
01:36:49,971 --> 01:36:52,452
can't come, or if it's not feasible
for them to come from the United

2322
01:36:52,452 --> 01:36:54,301
States, they'll come from offshore.

2323
01:36:54,551 --> 01:36:55,222
Mm-hmm.

2324
01:36:55,222 --> 01:36:55,671
Okay?

2325
01:36:56,081 --> 01:37:00,791
It's the demand, because criminals know
that they can use a gun in an offense in

2326
01:37:00,791 --> 01:37:06,361
Canada today in 2026, and it's not going
to be a major part of their problem.

2327
01:37:06,371 --> 01:37:06,391
Mm-hmm.

2328
01:37:06,401 --> 01:37:10,251
Because that is the charge that is
gonna get plea bargained away first.

2329
01:37:10,261 --> 01:37:11,011
Mm-hmm.

2330
01:37:11,011 --> 01:37:14,591
And if you're only doing, you know,
six months, a year, four or five years

2331
01:37:14,591 --> 01:37:19,960
in prison You know, maybe that maybe
it's worth doing it because, uh, I, I

2332
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:26,690
hate to say it, I mean, where, where
firearm- firearms like 60 years ago, 70

2333
01:37:26,699 --> 01:37:29,300
years ago, uh, it was a big deal- Right

2334
01:37:29,390 --> 01:37:31,480
for a gun to be used
in a defense in Canada.

2335
01:37:31,650 --> 01:37:32,090
Okay?

2336
01:37:32,090 --> 01:37:35,180
It had to be a particularly bad
guy or, or a psycho or something

2337
01:37:35,190 --> 01:37:36,710
for a guy to actually use a gun.

2338
01:37:36,950 --> 01:37:38,540
Most criminals stayed away from it.

2339
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:41,900
You know, it was, you know,
fists or blunt objects or knives

2340
01:37:41,900 --> 01:37:43,250
or, or, or that sort of thing.

2341
01:37:43,260 --> 01:37:46,240
The gun was, "Hey, dude,
you don't wanna do that."

2342
01:37:46,319 --> 01:37:46,649
Mm.

2343
01:37:46,699 --> 01:37:50,770
Because the type of, uh, sentence
you would receive was, well, there

2344
01:37:50,779 --> 01:37:51,989
goes a big chunk of your life.

2345
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:53,009
Right.

2346
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:53,890
But now.

2347
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:55,649
Now that fear's not there anymore.

2348
01:37:55,750 --> 01:37:56,409
No, it's gone.

2349
01:37:57,139 --> 01:38:02,300
So I often get asked about the
different gun organizations in Canada.

2350
01:38:02,399 --> 01:38:02,639
Hmm.

2351
01:38:02,750 --> 01:38:02,770
Yeah.

2352
01:38:02,779 --> 01:38:06,859
"Oh, who should we support? Who
should we get behind?" And I-

2353
01:38:06,859 --> 01:38:08,389
Get be- get behind one of them.

2354
01:38:08,479 --> 01:38:12,660
Well, I, I take a little different
approach, and I say, um, "Why don't you

2355
01:38:12,669 --> 01:38:17,692
get behind all of them?" Because they're
all doing some things that I look at-

2356
01:38:17,722 --> 01:38:20,522
Yeah … and from my perspective, and
everyone's gonna have a different opinion-

2357
01:38:20,632 --> 01:38:20,951
Sure

2358
01:38:21,392 --> 01:38:22,882
…
they're doing some things that are great.

2359
01:38:22,951 --> 01:38:23,152
Yeah.

2360
01:38:23,241 --> 01:38:25,831
And they're doing some things like,
ah, man, I'd do it differently,

2361
01:38:25,911 --> 01:38:27,731
differently than that, or I
don't like- Or for that, yeah.

2362
01:38:27,731 --> 01:38:28,842
or I don't like this at all.

2363
01:38:29,291 --> 01:38:33,331
But it's not the organizations,
and you can correct me from your

2364
01:38:33,331 --> 01:38:35,481
position if you're wrong- Yeah … but
it's not the organizations

2365
01:38:35,481 --> 01:38:37,531
that's gonna save guns in Canada.

2366
01:38:37,531 --> 01:38:39,521
They're gonna help
organize the individuals.

2367
01:38:39,701 --> 01:38:42,281
The individuals- That's right … are
the ones who are gonna save it.

2368
01:38:42,291 --> 01:38:44,071
So get behind one- Yeah

2369
01:38:44,081 --> 01:38:49,251
whoever you think it might be, or
all of them, and educate yourself-

2370
01:38:49,301 --> 01:38:49,511
Yeah

2371
01:38:49,551 --> 01:38:51,291
…
as a best path forward.

2372
01:38:51,781 --> 01:38:54,341
And if you get behind all of them, each
one's gonna have a different nuance on

2373
01:38:54,342 --> 01:38:55,882
what they feel the best path forward.

2374
01:38:55,882 --> 01:38:55,912
Of course, yeah.

2375
01:38:55,912 --> 01:38:58,941
And sometimes it all aligns,
and sometimes maybe they're not.

2376
01:38:59,011 --> 01:39:03,371
You know, a lot of people have
misconceptions about, uh, uh, gun politics

2377
01:39:03,411 --> 01:39:07,441
and, uh, gun organizations, lobby groups,
that sort of thing, and what they do

2378
01:39:07,441 --> 01:39:09,092
and, and what they can't do really.

2379
01:39:09,101 --> 01:39:09,151
Mm-hmm.

2380
01:39:09,151 --> 01:39:13,041
And, uh, you know, it's always, uh, here
it is again, the United States, right?

2381
01:39:13,561 --> 01:39:14,901
You know, uh, the NRA.

2382
01:39:14,932 --> 01:39:20,491
The NRA, uh, goes into, goes to Washington
and, uh, you know, um, they're, they're,

2383
01:39:20,541 --> 01:39:23,141
they're held in awe, they're held in
fear, and they shut down legislation.

2384
01:39:23,151 --> 01:39:24,011
Well, that's just not true.

2385
01:39:24,041 --> 01:39:27,511
I mean, they've had, uh, certainly
had successes over the years, and

2386
01:39:27,511 --> 01:39:30,141
I love NRA as an organization,
what they've done, you know- Sure

2387
01:39:30,141 --> 01:39:33,872
organ- organizing sport shooting and that
sort of thing, and their lobbying efforts.

2388
01:39:34,291 --> 01:39:37,861
But, uh, uh, a- again, it, it
doesn't always work that way.

2389
01:39:37,891 --> 01:39:43,171
They are… Because, uh, politicians
can't t- talk to every stakeholder

2390
01:39:43,501 --> 01:39:44,441
in the country- Sure … okay?

2391
01:39:45,011 --> 01:39:47,191
Uh, they can talk to their
constituents, and they are

2392
01:39:47,281 --> 01:39:50,001
talking the, to the constituents
today in Canada, which I love.

2393
01:39:50,022 --> 01:39:51,222
This is another thing I love.

2394
01:39:51,222 --> 01:39:54,731
People are actually talking to their
MPs. Mm. They're talking to their

2395
01:39:54,731 --> 01:39:57,971
MLAs, and that is so important.

2396
01:39:58,231 --> 01:40:00,581
I don't like what's going on with guns.

2397
01:40:00,681 --> 01:40:03,661
Uh, when you form a government,
when you're in office, I expect

2398
01:40:03,661 --> 01:40:05,041
you to do something about that.

2399
01:40:05,151 --> 01:40:07,708
Do you think that's the number one
thing that people can do individually?

2400
01:40:07,708 --> 01:40:08,041
Uh, uh,

2401
01:40:08,041 --> 01:40:08,922
it always has been.

2402
01:40:09,202 --> 01:40:14,052
So if they wanna do that, is there, are
there primers of how they can go and talk

2403
01:40:14,081 --> 01:40:16,321
to their representative in a way that-

2404
01:40:16,561 --> 01:40:19,131
Sure, and we, we educate our
members, but you know what?

2405
01:40:19,151 --> 01:40:20,371
It's not complicated.

2406
01:40:20,461 --> 01:40:20,701
Mm.

2407
01:40:20,741 --> 01:40:21,611
And it's not hard.

2408
01:40:22,158 --> 01:40:26,738
You just go in as a regular person
and say, "This is my problem.

2409
01:40:26,758 --> 01:40:27,968
This is what they're doing to me.

2410
01:40:28,598 --> 01:40:29,948
I don't think this is warranted.

2411
01:40:29,998 --> 01:40:33,657
I'm a law-abiding, upstanding
individual, and I'm not going to

2412
01:40:33,658 --> 01:40:35,707
accept it." Plus, it doesn't work.

2413
01:40:35,738 --> 01:40:38,418
I mean, you can educate yourself
as, as much as you want.

2414
01:40:38,998 --> 01:40:41,807
Um, it's like write- you know, the
old thing about writing letters

2415
01:40:41,808 --> 01:40:43,788
to politicians, and everybody…

2416
01:40:43,838 --> 01:40:46,467
I would always get questions about
this because people thought they,

2417
01:40:46,478 --> 01:40:49,167
you know, they had to have, like,
a 10-page letter with all, you

2418
01:40:49,168 --> 01:40:52,937
know, all kinds of, uh, stats and
statistics, and this, that, references.

2419
01:40:52,937 --> 01:40:55,657
And it's like, no, you
don't have to do that.

2420
01:40:55,667 --> 01:41:00,308
Keep it short, keep it concise, and,
uh, make it real, uh, for the elected

2421
01:41:00,308 --> 01:41:01,708
representative that you're dealing with.

2422
01:41:02,217 --> 01:41:05,947
And th- they can really, they, they
can really relate to that because-

2423
01:41:05,957 --> 01:41:09,247
Mm … you're not coming on like
a big, you're a, a gun lobby guy,

2424
01:41:09,327 --> 01:41:12,117
whi- which is, is a problem for
us because they know who we are.

2425
01:41:12,127 --> 01:41:14,458
Mm. They know where we're coming
from, and- Sure … and that's fine.

2426
01:41:14,728 --> 01:41:14,878
Yeah.

2427
01:41:15,088 --> 01:41:15,478
Okay.

2428
01:41:15,547 --> 01:41:18,517
Uh, we can speak broadly, uh,
for the mass of firearms owners

2429
01:41:18,518 --> 01:41:19,998
in Canada who can't do that.

2430
01:41:20,077 --> 01:41:20,318
Mm-hmm.

2431
01:41:20,318 --> 01:41:24,637
And so therefore, they come to us
and say, "Okay, how about, uh, this

2432
01:41:24,638 --> 01:41:27,708
for firearms law reform," or, "What's
wrong with this and," or, or that.

2433
01:41:27,717 --> 01:41:31,737
And, and we can speak, uh, uh, with
authority on that because, you know,

2434
01:41:31,747 --> 01:41:35,088
we've dealt with this, you know,
through the reg- regulation, through the

2435
01:41:35,088 --> 01:41:37,187
legislation for, for years and decades.

2436
01:41:37,198 --> 01:41:38,217
Mm. And they know that.

2437
01:41:38,677 --> 01:41:44,307
But for actual polital- political
impetus, just the regular guy going,

2438
01:41:44,317 --> 01:41:46,287
"Hey, this is wrong and it's gotta stop."

2439
01:41:46,427 --> 01:41:46,477
Mm.

2440
01:41:46,908 --> 01:41:52,027
And you don't have to be, um, y-
you don't have to have 30 years

2441
01:41:52,027 --> 01:41:53,937
of experience to do that, okay?

2442
01:41:53,948 --> 01:41:54,478
Agreed.

2443
01:41:54,808 --> 01:41:55,408
Agreed.

2444
01:41:56,637 --> 01:41:59,967
Is there anything that we haven't talked
about that we should be talking about?

2445
01:42:00,417 --> 01:42:00,928
Oh, boy.

2446
01:42:01,117 --> 01:42:05,060
Uh- I think we've, uh,
uh, c- covered most of it.

2447
01:42:05,740 --> 01:42:11,130
Um, another thing I've been saying a lot
these days, support your local gun store.

2448
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:14,530
I, I know people don't have a lot
of discretionary spending anymore.

2449
01:42:15,019 --> 01:42:15,279
Hmm.

2450
01:42:15,309 --> 01:42:20,070
You know, um, but, you know, if you
can, if, i- i- if you can make that

2451
01:42:20,070 --> 01:42:23,029
investment because we're, we're,
we're losing a lot of businesses.

2452
01:42:23,699 --> 01:42:27,090
I mean, my God, I, I take a l- a
look around here locally and you, y-

2453
01:42:27,100 --> 01:42:29,430
you're aware of who's- Sure … who's
not, just not there anymore.

2454
01:42:29,519 --> 01:42:29,739
Yeah.

2455
01:42:30,379 --> 01:42:31,499
And that's a problem.

2456
01:42:31,689 --> 01:42:37,199
Um, um, again, you know, get involved
with a, with an organization like

2457
01:42:37,199 --> 01:42:38,860
Canada's National Firearms Association.

2458
01:42:39,479 --> 01:42:41,090
Uh, we have a field officer program.

2459
01:42:41,090 --> 01:42:43,250
Basically you're a
representative of your community.

2460
01:42:43,629 --> 01:42:46,279
A lot of people think there's a lot
of onerous requirements for that.

2461
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:48,300
I gotta go do this, I gotta
go do that, the other thing.

2462
01:42:48,330 --> 01:42:48,400
Yeah,

2463
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:49,119
what do they have to do?

2464
01:42:49,549 --> 01:42:54,440
Uh, whatever your best efforts or
tolerance, or, or talents are, okay?

2465
01:42:54,449 --> 01:42:54,479
Right.

2466
01:42:54,490 --> 01:42:57,259
If you like talking to, to
politicians, you can do that.

2467
01:42:57,780 --> 01:43:01,229
If you like, uh, distributing
information at, at, at guns,

2468
01:43:01,499 --> 01:43:02,459
gun stores, you can do that.

2469
01:43:02,459 --> 01:43:04,959
If you like r- representing
an organization at gun

2470
01:43:04,959 --> 01:43:05,889
shows, you can do that.

2471
01:43:05,889 --> 01:43:05,899
Hmm.

2472
01:43:05,909 --> 01:43:07,699
It's really what you, you can bring.

2473
01:43:08,259 --> 01:43:11,349
And we have individuals who,
who do all of those things.

2474
01:43:11,409 --> 01:43:13,549
Field officers do all of
those things, you know?

2475
01:43:14,199 --> 01:43:15,459
Um, so there's not…

2476
01:43:15,479 --> 01:43:18,279
Y- you don't get, uh,
a, a job description.

2477
01:43:18,289 --> 01:43:23,469
Basically, um, I, I remember when I first
got involved and I, I was appointed- … a

2478
01:43:23,469 --> 01:43:26,489
field officer by Dave Thomas, and I
said, "Dave, I mean, what, what am I

2479
01:43:26,490 --> 01:43:28,640
supposed to do?" "You'll figure it out."

2480
01:43:29,259 --> 01:43:30,529
And he sure as hell did- … didn't he?

2481
01:43:31,059 --> 01:43:35,849
It's like… So, you know, it's really,
you know… U- use your imagination.

2482
01:43:35,850 --> 01:43:40,789
There's all kinds of things you do, and
as you get more experience, uh, then, uh,

2483
01:43:40,799 --> 01:43:42,869
y- you can sort of move up the ladder.

2484
01:43:43,519 --> 01:43:43,989
I did.

2485
01:43:44,530 --> 01:43:44,960
Yeah.

2486
01:43:45,059 --> 01:43:45,319
Yeah.

2487
01:43:45,909 --> 01:43:46,379
Okay.

2488
01:43:46,409 --> 01:43:52,909
Well, for those listening to this, uh,
I'd highly encourage, go check out nfa.ca.

2489
01:43:53,976 --> 01:43:58,606
Check out what they stand for, what
they're doing, and shoot Blair a message,

2490
01:43:58,606 --> 01:44:00,306
shoot the NFA a message over- Sure

2491
01:44:00,316 --> 01:44:04,206
because, uh, they've always been very
responsive, probably even more responsive

2492
01:44:04,206 --> 01:44:08,235
if you're a member, so that, uh, but I
think you respond to basically everybody.

2493
01:44:08,355 --> 01:44:08,906
Oh, yeah.

2494
01:44:09,006 --> 01:44:09,885
Yeah, absolutely.

2495
01:44:09,886 --> 01:44:11,466
I mean, you know, I get these questions.

2496
01:44:11,466 --> 01:44:15,045
Uh, the people call our office with
a, a, a legal question or looking

2497
01:44:15,046 --> 01:44:16,716
for guidance, and guess what?

2498
01:44:16,716 --> 01:44:18,285
If you do that, you're
gonna be talking to me.

2499
01:44:18,505 --> 01:44:18,805
Yeah.

2500
01:44:18,855 --> 01:44:21,346
And, uh, you don't have to be a member.

2501
01:44:21,386 --> 01:44:24,755
Uh, I, I understand that,
uh, a lot of people can't.

2502
01:44:25,446 --> 01:44:26,455
I think that's a smart approach.

2503
01:44:26,486 --> 01:44:26,916
Yeah.

2504
01:44:26,955 --> 01:44:30,645
It, it's like I'm, I'm not gonna turn
you away- No … uh, because there

2505
01:44:30,646 --> 01:44:35,575
are so ma- many people in this country
that are negatively affected by,

2506
01:44:35,635 --> 01:44:40,315
uh, uh, uh, the federal government's
actions, basically, and it's just…

2507
01:44:40,455 --> 01:44:44,686
W- luckily, I'm in a position
where I can ad- uh, advise people.

2508
01:44:44,755 --> 01:44:48,636
Um, you know, I have a f- I have a
full-time job, obviously, but it's

2509
01:44:48,636 --> 01:44:52,495
a job that lends itself- Mm … to
allowing me, uh, to take questions from

2510
01:44:52,495 --> 01:44:56,685
people and helping people because, uh,
a lot of it's, uh, a lot of it in- uh,

2511
01:44:56,755 --> 01:44:59,606
includes licensed firearms businesses.

2512
01:45:00,195 --> 01:45:03,675
So yeah, no, uh, if you call NFA, you're
gonna be talking to me, and we're gonna

2513
01:45:03,686 --> 01:45:07,945
give you straight goods, uh, real-world
explanations into plain language.

2514
01:45:08,315 --> 01:45:11,585
So I'll leave it at consider
supporting your local organization.

2515
01:45:11,605 --> 01:45:12,626
Check out the NFA.

2516
01:45:12,635 --> 01:45:13,755
Consider supporting them- S- … if

2517
01:45:13,935 --> 01:45:15,485
that makes sense … strength,
strength, strength in numbers.

2518
01:45:15,495 --> 01:45:15,515
Yeah.

2519
01:45:15,716 --> 01:45:17,605
I mean, you know, we
always get this question.

2520
01:45:17,616 --> 01:45:20,075
First thing, first thing a
politician's gonna ask you,

2521
01:45:20,076 --> 01:45:20,995
"How many members do you have?"

2522
01:45:21,265 --> 01:45:21,755
Mm.

2523
01:45:21,855 --> 01:45:24,475
Because that's how many votes
you represent, and- Yeah, good

2524
01:45:24,475 --> 01:45:24,765
point

2525
01:45:25,345 --> 01:45:28,804
…
you know, um- And so
l- just based on that.

2526
01:45:28,814 --> 01:45:31,484
And our membership, uh, I,
I'm very pleased with the

2527
01:45:31,484 --> 01:45:32,724
way our membership is today.

2528
01:45:33,134 --> 01:45:36,203
Uh, it's bigger than it
ever has been before.

2529
01:45:36,204 --> 01:45:39,244
A lot of that is, you know, the fear
of what's, uh, going to- Mm … happen,

2530
01:45:39,244 --> 01:45:41,084
uh, with, with the orders in council.

2531
01:45:41,494 --> 01:45:43,094
People want representation.

2532
01:45:43,094 --> 01:45:47,014
They want, uh, th- they want
groups, uh, to, uh, uh, to, to,

2533
01:45:47,014 --> 01:45:51,033
uh, take this forward in Ottawa
and, and, and come to a resolution.

2534
01:45:51,503 --> 01:45:55,274
But, uh, yeah, uh, I
understand everybody's limited.

2535
01:45:55,464 --> 01:46:00,624
Um, I'm limited myself, but, uh, if you
can support NFA, please, please do so.

2536
01:46:01,113 --> 01:46:03,314
If you like the work we- especially
if you like the work we do.

2537
01:46:03,504 --> 01:46:10,204
Um, but, uh, it, it- support at
least one farms organization or all.

2538
01:46:10,513 --> 01:46:11,003
Or all.

2539
01:46:11,183 --> 01:46:13,994
And here's something you can
do that's absolutely free.

2540
01:46:14,473 --> 01:46:17,133
If you like the conversation and
you think that other people should

2541
01:46:17,313 --> 01:46:19,384
hear this, share this episode.

2542
01:46:19,673 --> 01:46:20,983
Post it on social media.

2543
01:46:20,984 --> 01:46:21,953
Get it on out there.

2544
01:46:21,964 --> 01:46:21,984
Yeah.

2545
01:46:21,993 --> 01:46:26,563
And if you're interested in getting
your authorization to carry a firearm

2546
01:46:26,563 --> 01:46:32,843
or learning ways that you can, uh,
legally with the frees own and transfer-

2547
01:46:32,853 --> 01:46:37,933
Yeah … restricted handguns, check
the link in the podcast here, and

2548
01:46:37,933 --> 01:46:39,403
it'll have a complete guide for you.

2549
01:46:40,124 --> 01:46:43,223
Um, Blair, it was an absolute
pleasure having you on here.

2550
01:46:43,473 --> 01:46:43,873
Thanks.

2551
01:46:43,874 --> 01:46:49,783
Just before we s- Yeah … uh, we break
here, uh, I just wanna say, Rick, wherever

2552
01:46:49,783 --> 01:46:51,723
you are, thank you Rick Iger- Igersic.

2553
01:46:51,734 --> 01:46:55,933
You did so much good for this
organization, and I'm gonna miss

2554
01:46:55,933 --> 01:47:01,003
you, man, because you were the
hardest-working guy I ever, I ever

2555
01:47:01,124 --> 01:47:03,963
s- uh, one of the hardest-working
guys I ever saw, and I've seen a few.

2556
01:47:04,704 --> 01:47:10,513
Um, yeah, so, um, I'm, uh… Although
previously I was, uh, executive

2557
01:47:10,513 --> 01:47:14,354
vice president, I'm, I'm also, uh,
going to be acting as president now.

2558
01:47:15,113 --> 01:47:19,243
As we work through these changes, it's
not a big, uh, it's not a big thing.

2559
01:47:19,263 --> 01:47:20,343
I've done this before.

2560
01:47:20,513 --> 01:47:27,613
I was, uh, president from, uh, 2008 to
2010, um, after Dave Thomlinson died.

2561
01:47:27,683 --> 01:47:34,023
Uh, I was president for, like,
six months in 2022, so this is

2562
01:47:34,023 --> 01:47:35,553
my, uh, third kick at the can.

2563
01:47:36,964 --> 01:47:39,194
Blair, thank you so much
for everything you do.

2564
01:47:39,333 --> 01:47:41,824
It's been great having you on here,
and we're gonna have to do this again.

2565
01:47:42,604 --> 01:47:43,714
I would really like to do

2566
01:47:44,204 --> 01:47:44,504
that.