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Jacob Santos
Welcome to the Learning Curve, an audio series presented by the Academic Commons. Your hosts for today's episode are myself, Jacob and
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Leah Miller
Leah.
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Jacob Santos
Our mission is to illuminate higher education, teaching and learning through the power of shared experiences and research. Informed practices.
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Leah Miller
On this episode of The Learning Curve, we'll be discussing inclusive practices with Dr. Karla Bell and Dr. Audrey Zapletal. You'll hear us explore inclusive teaching as a mindset rather than a list of strategies. We'll cover building intentionally while keeping rigor, equity, and clarity at the core of learning so that all students can succeed. Dr. Audrey L. Zapletal is a teaching associate professor in the Department of Occupational Therapy at Thomas Jefferson University's College of Rehabilitation Sciences.
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Leah Miller
Dr. Zapletal has taught a wide range of courses, from neuroanatomy to pediatric and adult intervention, program development, and leadership. She is a co-founder and facilitator for Sexual and Gender Minorities Education and Training. Known as SGMET. Dr. Karla A. Bell is a professor also in the College of Rehabilitation Sciences and co-creator and co-lead of SGMET. Their collaborative, interdisciplinary research focuses on sense of belonging in students.
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Leah Miller
Professional development in the areas of LGBTQIA+ health and cultural humility. Provider behavior change to help mitigate LGBTQIA+ plus health care disparities and structural competency as a necessary professional education lens. Welcome, Karla and Audrey.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Thank you. We're excited to be here.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Thank you.
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Leah Miller
If you can, could you describe your teaching practice in three words?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I’ll go first Karla, if you are.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Yeah.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I need to break the rules. So that's the first thing Leah and Jacob is. I will, I might break rules here, and I need forwards. So the four words I, I think best describe my teaching practice or what I try to subscribe to, is always having an intersectional lens that anybody that I encounter from a client to a student to a team member.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Everyone has a story, and that story builds upon another story and understanding the different facets of how that how they came to be as important. I try to be learner centered, really trying to be intentional in how activities or thoughts and lectures are stated in the classroom, why they're stated, the experiences that students have in my classroom or courses, how they need to be varied to again support their learning.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And that's really intentional. And it's all about looking at those learning objectives. And then the last word, which is the fourth word, is innovative. I try not to shy away from new ideas or new teaching ways. I may question and be very curious and skeptical, but I. I do feel like innovation is something to at least try when there's something new, because you don't know what you're going to learn from it, and you also learn what you like and what you don't like.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Okay, so it's my turn and I will try to be brief. I'm going to add in fourth because Audrey added a fourth, but I would say I really tried to be intentional first. Right. And thinking through everything about my teaching. And that is from my approach. The lens through which I approach the content, my deliverables, my assessments, all of that.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I would also add that I hope that I'm reflective. I'm adaptive. So I certainly take ongoing feedback, change things that maybe didn't work as effectively or didn't work for everybody. And I'm adding intersectional here too, because that intersectional lens is truly right. We are many things at once, all of us. And I don't want to ever forget that.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I don't want to silo in on one aspect of my human learner that I'm engaging with and neglect other aspects.
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Jacob Santos
And I noticed both of you use the word intentional, and I think that relates quite directly to our next question, which is how do you define inclusive teaching and what it looks like in your classroom?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So for inclusive teaching, how I look at it, it it is the intentional design of learning environments that recognize, value and support the diverse identities, experiences and ways of of knowing that our learners bring with them. In my classroom, it looks like things like flexible course design, right? Multiple ways for learners to engage and and maybe demonstrate their learning.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Transparent expectations, I feel, are very important and consistent opportunities for for learners voices in different ways. Right. Inclusion is not an add on. It's really embedded in how the course and teaching is structured and facilitated that that's how I think of inclusive teaching.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I'm I'm going to actually think about it a little bit differently because in order to have an inclusive environment, although you don't need to have things, you know, the tools, the adaptations, on some level you do need to have some foundational elements. And again, it all goes back to your learning objectives. So I think about in probably all of our teaching undergraduate, graduate, there are skills that actually need to be practiced.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And you need materials or you need equipment. So it might be a bed, it might be a countertop. You might need a desk to mimic, you know, maybe a transaction at a store, for example. So you need space materials and you need to think about how many learners you have in your classroom and if the engagement is going to be active.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
How are they each going to get the feedback that they need and that they're motivated in order to be able to do their future job? Because if you don't have this space and you don't have the the professional expertise in teaching in the profession, that's gonna water things down a little bit. And then the other pieces, then thinking about your learning objectives and how much technology or add ons you want to put in there.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
What can the student bring in if a student needs to have a laptop, or is that just their preference? Can they take notes a different way, or do they even need to take notes? Because this is experiential and what they get from the experience is enough. So I think there's a lot there that we just need to think about in the inclusive environment, and that as educators, if we don't have the foundation, the rest is very challenging because you might be dealing with over 80 students in a room and to get every student engaged at the same time. Well, that that's the goal. That's the goal.
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Leah Miller
The thing that stuck out to me there, you both addressed foundation, but in in different ways, like intentional design of the learning environment. Objectives are the foundation and that goes along with transparent expectations. I love how you both came at it from like kind of a different perspective, but it really is about the foundation.
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Leah Miller
So this question is kind of a little bit historical. How did you begin implementing inclusive practices into your classrooms, and then how has that journey changed over time?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I think through me, the journey has changed tremendously through time. I was a clinician thrown into academia and not necessarily trained on how to educate an educational pedagogy and, you know, adult learning and the the development and learning sciences. I initially approached inclusive teaching through small practical changes, right. Such as all right, revising syllabi, language, Remi or trying to diversify course materials a little bit as I made realizations of of gaps in those kinds of things.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
But over time, you know, my approach really has shifted from individual strategies to this holistic mindset focused on systemic barriers, power dynamics and relationship building. And it is through all of that lens and my true appreciation through learning much more about the worlds and societies we live in and the incredible systemic and structural barriers that exist outside that are brought inside the learning environments.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And so now inclusion is less about doing more and more about designing learning with equity in mind from the start, if that makes sense.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Karla, that was. I really like how you put that designing with equity in mind from the start, because. That really is what we try to do every day. Now again, it's thinking back again to what needs to be done. The technologies that are available, let it be actual technology or let it be a tub bench for that equipment and building the relationship that the student can learn it, do it, you trust them, and then they also need to trust you that they're going to be okay. In the clinical world or in any consumer driven world.
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Jacob Santos
I love the clear passion for this. In both of your responses, the intentionality and the heart which you address our questions is beautiful to hear. And as we kind of continue looking at into inclusive teaching in our interview today, I'm curious over the course of your, kind of history in this practice, what misconceptions about inclusive teaching do you wish you could correct for anyone listening or out there that you've heard?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So I'm going to speak to several that and thinking through the actual misconceptions I'm aware of. Right. The first one I want to talk to is, is this concept that inclusive teaching somehow lowers academic rigor. I've heard that in some circles, and the misconception, right, is that inclusive teaching is sometimes viewed as watering down content or being overly lenient, or prioritizing comfort over challenge.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And what I want to correct in that misconception is that inclusive teaching maintains high academic standards, while removing unnecessary barriers that interfere with learning. And so learning science shows us that when expectations are transparent, that supports are scaffolded, and students understand how to meet standards right, then more students are able to engage deeply with challenging material. So rigor is about cognitive demand, not about confusion.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Ambiguity, or gatekeeping. And so inclusive teaching doesn't make learning easier. It makes success more attainable. Right? The second one I want to speak to is, is that inclusive teaching is only for certain students. And the misconception there is inclusive teaching is often framed as something that primarily benefits marginalized groups or disabled or, you know, students who have varying, varying abilities of learning that are different or students who are struggling.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. And the correction here is that inclusive teaching benefits all learners because variability is the norm, right? Not the exception. And so strategies such as clear course organization or multiple ways to engage in timely feedback improve learning for high achieving students, multilingual learners, first generation students, students balancing work or caregiving all kinds of situation situational learners right.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And what supports some students becomes good pedagogy for everyone. So it's not a targeted intervention. Inclusive teaching. It's a universal commitment to effective learning design. Right. And then the last one I just want to speak to is, is that inclusive teaching is about using the right tools or strategies. And, and that misconception means that inclusive teaching is often reduced to a checklist.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Use certain technologies, add diverse readings, or adopt a specific technique. Right. And the correction here is that inclusive teaching is fundamentally a reflective practice and mindset. It's not a fixed set of strategies, right. It requires this continual attention to who is benefiting and who may be excluded, and how power, norms and assumptions show up in the classroom.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So tools and strategies matter, but only when they are applied, intentionally evaluated for impact, and adapted over time. So inclusive teaching is not a destination or formula. It's an ongoing practice of noticing, listening, and adjusting. So it isn't about lowering standards. It's not about targeting a specific group or finding the perfect tool. Right? It's about designing learning environments where high expectations are clear, barriers are reduced, and all students and all learners have genuine opportunity to succeed.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Karla, I appreciate how you came at that, because, you know, when I was thinking about inclusive teaching, my mind is a little bit different in how I approach the question. I can remember some almost heated conversations with faculty, maybe passionate conversations with the faculty around inclusive teaching styles, and that there was this thought that we had to cater to every kind of learning, style and learning preference all the time.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And, and it's not that I don't agree with that. I would, I just like to keep in the back of my mind is, you know, is but we still have to make it feasible. We still have to as educators, make sure that, you know, we're doing our best to ensure that everyone in the classroom has equal opportunity for learning.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And one of my favorite books is The New Science of Learning. Between that book and helping us understand, or it's really helping the college student understand about themselves how they need to come to the classroom prepared to learn. What does that look like? What's their responsibility? Just like Karla said, our students are coming in with. Distractions from everything from the ping on their phone to being caregivers to their siblings, to their parents, to their neighbors, even to their pets.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Right? It's just different in terms of who's showing up in our classroom. And then on top of that, life happens. We need to be thinking about, as educators again, that accessibility to ensuring that they are getting the information that they need. And our goal again, is what what do they need to know during this educational period? And how can we best help them learn that?
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Leah Miller
I really love how you both put that. Like we're supporting. You're supporting everyone with how you teach. Like this. Inclusive teaching really supports everyone, and it doesn't decrease rigor that actually kind of leads very nicely, into our next question, which is student focused. How do you learn about the diverse needs, backgrounds, identities of your students when you start a course and have a new cohort?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
That's a really great question, because you know, a non-negotiable is like, I have to know everybody's name. And then over time again, name and pronoun, like, I just need to know that I want to know how to say your name. I am going to get sometimes I do get people confused and you know, I that's my own. I take that in and I apologize and I do better next time.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
That's my goal. But I do think the name is really important. Sometimes I'll just do an index card because an index card you can't write a lot and you can just get the important points down. So it was always like name pronouns. If you'd like to share, tell me about your favorite animal. And then on the back side, if there's something I need to know, tell me about it.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Because again, they're going to share what they're going to want to share. I don't need to know a whole life story, but I do want to get a sense that I know them and that they they're sharing what they want to share. I did do something differently this semester because I had to start a course late. So I did the regular, you know, index card type of thing.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
But I also included a syllabus quiz, and it wasn't a real quiz, but I asked them, I gave them the syllabus. It had the learning objectives. It didn't have all the activities defined yet, but I gave them the learning objectives and standards. And I said, what do you think you're going to learn in this class, and what are you curious to learn and what do you think is missing?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Just three simple questions. And I took the answers. And then I did like a little thematic analysis, and I shared that with the class. And the reason why I did that was it gave me insight to what they think they're going to learn. And from the from day one, to make sure that there were no misconceptions of what was going to be learned in this class.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Everyone's going to read your syllabus differently if they're going to read it. But this was just a different exercise that I just I grew to appreciate and then even took some of their responses to either that question or to maybe went around leadership and made some art out of it. You know, like a word cloud. And again, it was all that engaging and showing them that their words mattered. And that was the way that I was going to engage as much as I could in different ways to all of their stories.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I love that, and some some of the things that that I'll share overlap with what Audrey just shared. I use early core strategies such as, you know, welcome surveys and some reflective prompts in the learning management system initially, right. And some low stakes activities that invite students to share how they learn best. So so a little of not the index card.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I kind of do it through a Qualtrics survey or and I want to know what supports their success rate. So some some of my quick questions revolve around that and what experiences they bring. I also normalize this ongoing communication my open door policy, but also that looks differently than what an open door policy might have looked like years ago.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right? Like that physically doesn't mean I may actually have my physical space open doored, because I may not be there. I may actually be working remotely that day. But being very clear about what open door means in for me and and how they can get Ahold of me when they need to, and making it clear that students needs may evolve throughout the term.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. Some things may change, and I want them to be able to come to me and talk to me about how they may affect their focus home, that may affect their learning, or how that may affect, some expectation of them turning in something right. The quick beginning of the course survey that I do, and the beginning of my courses, allows me to learn what name they would like to be called.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. There may be very different names and what their roster name says, what pronouns they use if they're comfortable sharing. So I can continue to engage respectfully. And so I think that brings us all closer. And I think that also brings in humanism to our classrooms and that everybody has things that they're navigating around to be, to be ultimately inclusive.
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Jacob Santos
This recurring theme we're seeing today of intentionality and how you both really want to make sure you're modeling certain behaviors for your students, and making sure you know that some of their input is important. How they are viewing the course is important, and, you know, recognizing for them. So that kind of that connects directly to our next question here in that sometimes classrooms will have difficult conversations or moments of tension, especially in regards to inclusive practices.
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Jacob Santos
So how do you navigate those moments of tension and conversation in ways that maintain inclusion and psychological safety for your students?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So great. Great question. Right. So in strategies really specifically looking at, fostering psychological safety. Right. And in hopefully having each learner feel this sense of value in the classroom, in the learning space and feel like they belong. And also, interestingly, right is through establishing clear community agreements, right? So in the first spaces and time together, I literally have this period that we talk back and forth and go, well, what do we think we're going to get out of this space together?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And what kind of things do we want to agree upon so we can have a productive learning environment? Right? Model curiosity and humility. Right. And acknowledge uncertainty is really part of the learning process, right? Looking for ways to intentionally validate student contributions and encourage respectful dialog and intervene early when some of those norms we've established are challenged. Right.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Psychological safety grows when when students trust that their own lived experiences perspectives will be taken seriously. I intentionally share the expectations of how we will engage during our time together and spend time on explaining the concepts of overlaps between brave space concepts and, my approach that blends some critical concepts of psychological safety and brave space. I call the Care Lead framework, and this stands for,
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Karla Bell (she/they)
The care part stands for center, acknowledge, reframe, and engage, and the lead part stands for learn, evolve, act and debrief. And I explained to them that and I have a graphic that goes along with this. I explained to them that the care part is our initial emotional check part. Right. It reinforces that regulation and safety come before the dialog skill.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And in my major classes, we do a lot of discussions around public policy, politics, structural and social drivers of health. Our health care delivery system and structures and systems in society. And we get into some real challenging and difficult conversations because we all may come to to those discussions from very different lived experiences. And so this is really important for me to get across.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And then the lead part reframes success out of this conversation as growth and responsibility, not agreement. Right. So again, this framework allows us to engage in these challenging discussions in a way that we all walk away understanding that, because I'm actually understanding what you're saying still does not equate to I may not agree with it, but we can model this very effectively.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And this is how we we should be engaging in all of our conversations. Right? It's not always easy. And I make mistakes and learn from them all the time. I approach difficult moments, you know, with this balance of structure and empathy. That includes pausing when necessary. There's lots of pauses in my class in some of these discussions, naming what's happening and inviting reflection with everyone rather than reaction.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. And I encourage the shared responsibility for for dialog and reminds our learners that discomfort is going to be part of the learning. But harm is not.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
What we can do in the classroom is only so much, and a learning environment that is amenable to having all the students at the same time, go through some kind of experience that is designed to give them friction. It's designed to challenge them and to, as best as possible, create a space where we can communicate and have that dialogue.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And again, the environment when you have 80 students in a student poses a very challenging question that maybe others are thinking as well. Pause is important. Taking a step back is is okay and inviting conversation is is sort of the next step. And in the heat of the moment, you can or at least I know I have like, okay, let's let's see how we can wrap this up in the classroom.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
So we can also like move forward with the learning objectives of the day that go back to that student and say, you know what? You really you made me really think there for a minute. Can we find a time outside of class to talk about this more? And that is where I think my greatest learning happens, is finding a neutral space the neutral space is just as much for them as it is for me to put us on the same playing ground. And again, there doesn't have to be agreement, but there does have to be a sense of, okay, this was good enough.
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Leah Miller
That is, it's it's tough and it's a lot, it's a lot to consider. But I really appreciate that you both focused on like it's not about agreement. Like you're not going to agree with everyone, but it's about reducing harm and growing and having that like responsibility to being a good human to other people.
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Leah Miller
And I think that's beautiful. If we're able to kind of wrap up everything we've talked about today, if we could just summarize everything, what 1 to 2 pieces of advice would each of you give to educators who want to be more inclusive in their teaching?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I have to break the rules again. I got to do three and I'll keep it quick. The first one is it's not a one and done. Whenever you're learning something and we think about our own fields that we really need to be thinking about fields that complement and are directly opposite of our fields and learn from them. So yes, I'm in the health care professions, I’m an OT, but I love reading business and finance and management work.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I purposefully take free courses in those areas and on topics like diversity and inclusion to hear their perspectives. Of course, they're going to be the same, but I'm going to learn something new. And that's what I love, because then I can bring it in again to my classroom, to my clients, because I'm thinking a little bit differently. So I think learning from people outside of our field is really important.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
The other is listen to your students, be open, ask them what they want. Know that you're never going to meet them 100%. They have their own expectations and that's okay. As long as you're meeting the learning objective and you're building the relationship, you're building your teams and your team's expectations, that's critical. And then the last thing I'll say is, and again, I, I really appreciate being part of this university.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I do miss our old values. It was always put people first, do what's right, and then it was about innovation. But I can still appreciate pursue excellence because it is about innovating with intent. But the one value that has always remained is putting people first. And if we can do that, because that's what we're here for, that's what we're ethically bound to as educators, as professionals, the rest falls into play. And just give yourself time. You know, you've got a whole career ahead of you.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Thank you, Audrey. I love that I would say first, start small and be consistent, right? One meaningful change is better than many disconnected efforts. Second view inclusive teaching practices as an ongoing practice rather than a destination, just like Audrey said. Right? One in not you're not done right.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Listening to students right, reflecting on the impact and being willing to adapt are just as important as any specific strategy. So it's really the your approach to this whole thing too, right? It can be overwhelming. So start with talking with colleagues about their practices and reviewing. So there's this inclusive course design and teaching self-assessment tool that Jefferson College.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
of Rehabilitation Sciences developed. Right. Start with the tool. Pick a couple strategies to start with and build from there. And lastly, I would say I'm a big fan of asking for peer teaching evaluations with specific insights related to inclusive teaching. Our traditional peer evaluations have not honed in on this, and I have actually asked specifically related to my peer teaching evaluations prompts related to inclusive teaching. And so I'm a big fan of adding that as well.
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Jacob Santos
Those are excellent pieces of advice for listeners faculty to take away and mull over. We've given our listeners so much to think about and consider in this, episode. So, this brings us to the end of our interview, for today, Karla and Audrey. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to be here with us, sharing your knowledge and expertise with us and our listeners.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Thank you both who really appreciate this opportunity.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Absolutely. I've I've thoroughly enjoyed this engagement. Thank you.
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Demi Harte
Thank you for joining us this month on The Learning Curve. You can find more information and resources related. To this episode at academiccommons.jefferson.edu/thelearningcurve, and we hope to see you at some upcoming. Academic Commons workshops. If you would like to be featured on a future episode of The Learning Curve, please. Contact us using the button on our show page. Thanks for tuning in.
00:00:00.066 --> 00:00:17.466
Jacob Santos
Welcome to the Learning Curve, an audio series presented by the Academic Commons. Your hosts for today's episode are myself, Jacob and
00:00:17.533 --> 00:00:19.600
Leah Miller
Leah.
00:00:19.666 --> 00:00:28.000
Jacob Santos
Our mission is to illuminate higher education, teaching and learning through the power of shared experiences and research. Informed practices.
00:00:28.100 --> 00:01:04.433
Leah Miller
On this episode of The Learning Curve, we'll be discussing inclusive practices with Dr. Karla Bell and Dr. Audrey Zapletal. You'll hear us explore inclusive teaching as a mindset rather than a list of strategies. We'll cover building intentionally while keeping rigor, equity, and clarity at the core of learning so that all students can succeed. Dr. Audrey L. Zapletal is a teaching associate professor in the Department of Occupational Therapy at Thomas Jefferson University's College of Rehabilitation Sciences.
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Leah Miller
Dr. Zapletal has taught a wide range of courses, from neuroanatomy to pediatric and adult intervention, program development, and leadership. She is a co-founder and facilitator for Sexual and Gender Minorities Education and Training. Known as SGMET. Dr. Karla A. Bell is a professor also in the College of Rehabilitation Sciences and co-creator and co-lead of SGMET. Their collaborative, interdisciplinary research focuses on sense of belonging in students.
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Leah Miller
Professional development in the areas of LGBTQIA+ health and cultural humility. Provider behavior change to help mitigate LGBTQIA+ plus health care disparities and structural competency as a necessary professional education lens. Welcome, Karla and Audrey.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Thank you. We're excited to be here.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Thank you.
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Leah Miller
If you can, could you describe your teaching practice in three words?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I’ll go first Karla, if you are.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Yeah.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I need to break the rules. So that's the first thing Leah and Jacob is. I will, I might break rules here, and I need forwards. So the four words I, I think best describe my teaching practice or what I try to subscribe to, is always having an intersectional lens that anybody that I encounter from a client to a student to a team member.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Everyone has a story, and that story builds upon another story and understanding the different facets of how that how they came to be as important. I try to be learner centered, really trying to be intentional in how activities or thoughts and lectures are stated in the classroom, why they're stated, the experiences that students have in my classroom or courses, how they need to be varied to again support their learning.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And that's really intentional. And it's all about looking at those learning objectives. And then the last word, which is the fourth word, is innovative. I try not to shy away from new ideas or new teaching ways. I may question and be very curious and skeptical, but I. I do feel like innovation is something to at least try when there's something new, because you don't know what you're going to learn from it, and you also learn what you like and what you don't like.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Okay, so it's my turn and I will try to be brief. I'm going to add in fourth because Audrey added a fourth, but I would say I really tried to be intentional first. Right. And thinking through everything about my teaching. And that is from my approach. The lens through which I approach the content, my deliverables, my assessments, all of that.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I would also add that I hope that I'm reflective. I'm adaptive. So I certainly take ongoing feedback, change things that maybe didn't work as effectively or didn't work for everybody. And I'm adding intersectional here too, because that intersectional lens is truly right. We are many things at once, all of us. And I don't want to ever forget that.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I don't want to silo in on one aspect of my human learner that I'm engaging with and neglect other aspects.
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Jacob Santos
And I noticed both of you use the word intentional, and I think that relates quite directly to our next question, which is how do you define inclusive teaching and what it looks like in your classroom?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So for inclusive teaching, how I look at it, it it is the intentional design of learning environments that recognize, value and support the diverse identities, experiences and ways of of knowing that our learners bring with them. In my classroom, it looks like things like flexible course design, right? Multiple ways for learners to engage and and maybe demonstrate their learning.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Transparent expectations, I feel, are very important and consistent opportunities for for learners voices in different ways. Right. Inclusion is not an add on. It's really embedded in how the course and teaching is structured and facilitated that that's how I think of inclusive teaching.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I'm I'm going to actually think about it a little bit differently because in order to have an inclusive environment, although you don't need to have things, you know, the tools, the adaptations, on some level you do need to have some foundational elements. And again, it all goes back to your learning objectives. So I think about in probably all of our teaching undergraduate, graduate, there are skills that actually need to be practiced.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And you need materials or you need equipment. So it might be a bed, it might be a countertop. You might need a desk to mimic, you know, maybe a transaction at a store, for example. So you need space materials and you need to think about how many learners you have in your classroom and if the engagement is going to be active.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
How are they each going to get the feedback that they need and that they're motivated in order to be able to do their future job? Because if you don't have this space and you don't have the the professional expertise in teaching in the profession, that's gonna water things down a little bit. And then the other pieces, then thinking about your learning objectives and how much technology or add ons you want to put in there.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
What can the student bring in if a student needs to have a laptop, or is that just their preference? Can they take notes a different way, or do they even need to take notes? Because this is experiential and what they get from the experience is enough. So I think there's a lot there that we just need to think about in the inclusive environment, and that as educators, if we don't have the foundation, the rest is very challenging because you might be dealing with over 80 students in a room and to get every student engaged at the same time. Well, that that's the goal. That's the goal.
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Leah Miller
The thing that stuck out to me there, you both addressed foundation, but in in different ways, like intentional design of the learning environment. Objectives are the foundation and that goes along with transparent expectations. I love how you both came at it from like kind of a different perspective, but it really is about the foundation.
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Leah Miller
So this question is kind of a little bit historical. How did you begin implementing inclusive practices into your classrooms, and then how has that journey changed over time?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I think through me, the journey has changed tremendously through time. I was a clinician thrown into academia and not necessarily trained on how to educate an educational pedagogy and, you know, adult learning and the the development and learning sciences. I initially approached inclusive teaching through small practical changes, right. Such as all right, revising syllabi, language, Remi or trying to diversify course materials a little bit as I made realizations of of gaps in those kinds of things.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
But over time, you know, my approach really has shifted from individual strategies to this holistic mindset focused on systemic barriers, power dynamics and relationship building. And it is through all of that lens and my true appreciation through learning much more about the worlds and societies we live in and the incredible systemic and structural barriers that exist outside that are brought inside the learning environments.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And so now inclusion is less about doing more and more about designing learning with equity in mind from the start, if that makes sense.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Karla, that was. I really like how you put that designing with equity in mind from the start, because. That really is what we try to do every day. Now again, it's thinking back again to what needs to be done. The technologies that are available, let it be actual technology or let it be a tub bench for that equipment and building the relationship that the student can learn it, do it, you trust them, and then they also need to trust you that they're going to be okay. In the clinical world or in any consumer driven world.
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Jacob Santos
I love the clear passion for this. In both of your responses, the intentionality and the heart which you address our questions is beautiful to hear. And as we kind of continue looking at into inclusive teaching in our interview today, I'm curious over the course of your, kind of history in this practice, what misconceptions about inclusive teaching do you wish you could correct for anyone listening or out there that you've heard?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So I'm going to speak to several that and thinking through the actual misconceptions I'm aware of. Right. The first one I want to talk to is, is this concept that inclusive teaching somehow lowers academic rigor. I've heard that in some circles, and the misconception, right, is that inclusive teaching is sometimes viewed as watering down content or being overly lenient, or prioritizing comfort over challenge.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And what I want to correct in that misconception is that inclusive teaching maintains high academic standards, while removing unnecessary barriers that interfere with learning. And so learning science shows us that when expectations are transparent, that supports are scaffolded, and students understand how to meet standards right, then more students are able to engage deeply with challenging material. So rigor is about cognitive demand, not about confusion.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Ambiguity, or gatekeeping. And so inclusive teaching doesn't make learning easier. It makes success more attainable. Right? The second one I want to speak to is, is that inclusive teaching is only for certain students. And the misconception there is inclusive teaching is often framed as something that primarily benefits marginalized groups or disabled or, you know, students who have varying, varying abilities of learning that are different or students who are struggling.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. And the correction here is that inclusive teaching benefits all learners because variability is the norm, right? Not the exception. And so strategies such as clear course organization or multiple ways to engage in timely feedback improve learning for high achieving students, multilingual learners, first generation students, students balancing work or caregiving all kinds of situation situational learners right.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And what supports some students becomes good pedagogy for everyone. So it's not a targeted intervention. Inclusive teaching. It's a universal commitment to effective learning design. Right. And then the last one I just want to speak to is, is that inclusive teaching is about using the right tools or strategies. And, and that misconception means that inclusive teaching is often reduced to a checklist.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Use certain technologies, add diverse readings, or adopt a specific technique. Right. And the correction here is that inclusive teaching is fundamentally a reflective practice and mindset. It's not a fixed set of strategies, right. It requires this continual attention to who is benefiting and who may be excluded, and how power, norms and assumptions show up in the classroom.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So tools and strategies matter, but only when they are applied, intentionally evaluated for impact, and adapted over time. So inclusive teaching is not a destination or formula. It's an ongoing practice of noticing, listening, and adjusting. So it isn't about lowering standards. It's not about targeting a specific group or finding the perfect tool. Right? It's about designing learning environments where high expectations are clear, barriers are reduced, and all students and all learners have genuine opportunity to succeed.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Karla, I appreciate how you came at that, because, you know, when I was thinking about inclusive teaching, my mind is a little bit different in how I approach the question. I can remember some almost heated conversations with faculty, maybe passionate conversations with the faculty around inclusive teaching styles, and that there was this thought that we had to cater to every kind of learning, style and learning preference all the time.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And, and it's not that I don't agree with that. I would, I just like to keep in the back of my mind is, you know, is but we still have to make it feasible. We still have to as educators, make sure that, you know, we're doing our best to ensure that everyone in the classroom has equal opportunity for learning.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And one of my favorite books is The New Science of Learning. Between that book and helping us understand, or it's really helping the college student understand about themselves how they need to come to the classroom prepared to learn. What does that look like? What's their responsibility? Just like Karla said, our students are coming in with. Distractions from everything from the ping on their phone to being caregivers to their siblings, to their parents, to their neighbors, even to their pets.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Right? It's just different in terms of who's showing up in our classroom. And then on top of that, life happens. We need to be thinking about, as educators again, that accessibility to ensuring that they are getting the information that they need. And our goal again, is what what do they need to know during this educational period? And how can we best help them learn that?
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Leah Miller
I really love how you both put that. Like we're supporting. You're supporting everyone with how you teach. Like this. Inclusive teaching really supports everyone, and it doesn't decrease rigor that actually kind of leads very nicely, into our next question, which is student focused. How do you learn about the diverse needs, backgrounds, identities of your students when you start a course and have a new cohort?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
That's a really great question, because you know, a non-negotiable is like, I have to know everybody's name. And then over time again, name and pronoun, like, I just need to know that I want to know how to say your name. I am going to get sometimes I do get people confused and you know, I that's my own. I take that in and I apologize and I do better next time.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
That's my goal. But I do think the name is really important. Sometimes I'll just do an index card because an index card you can't write a lot and you can just get the important points down. So it was always like name pronouns. If you'd like to share, tell me about your favorite animal. And then on the back side, if there's something I need to know, tell me about it.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Because again, they're going to share what they're going to want to share. I don't need to know a whole life story, but I do want to get a sense that I know them and that they they're sharing what they want to share. I did do something differently this semester because I had to start a course late. So I did the regular, you know, index card type of thing.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
But I also included a syllabus quiz, and it wasn't a real quiz, but I asked them, I gave them the syllabus. It had the learning objectives. It didn't have all the activities defined yet, but I gave them the learning objectives and standards. And I said, what do you think you're going to learn in this class, and what are you curious to learn and what do you think is missing?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Just three simple questions. And I took the answers. And then I did like a little thematic analysis, and I shared that with the class. And the reason why I did that was it gave me insight to what they think they're going to learn. And from the from day one, to make sure that there were no misconceptions of what was going to be learned in this class.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Everyone's going to read your syllabus differently if they're going to read it. But this was just a different exercise that I just I grew to appreciate and then even took some of their responses to either that question or to maybe went around leadership and made some art out of it. You know, like a word cloud. And again, it was all that engaging and showing them that their words mattered. And that was the way that I was going to engage as much as I could in different ways to all of their stories.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I love that, and some some of the things that that I'll share overlap with what Audrey just shared. I use early core strategies such as, you know, welcome surveys and some reflective prompts in the learning management system initially, right. And some low stakes activities that invite students to share how they learn best. So so a little of not the index card.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
I kind of do it through a Qualtrics survey or and I want to know what supports their success rate. So some some of my quick questions revolve around that and what experiences they bring. I also normalize this ongoing communication my open door policy, but also that looks differently than what an open door policy might have looked like years ago.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right? Like that physically doesn't mean I may actually have my physical space open doored, because I may not be there. I may actually be working remotely that day. But being very clear about what open door means in for me and and how they can get Ahold of me when they need to, and making it clear that students needs may evolve throughout the term.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. Some things may change, and I want them to be able to come to me and talk to me about how they may affect their focus home, that may affect their learning, or how that may affect, some expectation of them turning in something right. The quick beginning of the course survey that I do, and the beginning of my courses, allows me to learn what name they would like to be called.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. There may be very different names and what their roster name says, what pronouns they use if they're comfortable sharing. So I can continue to engage respectfully. And so I think that brings us all closer. And I think that also brings in humanism to our classrooms and that everybody has things that they're navigating around to be, to be ultimately inclusive.
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Jacob Santos
This recurring theme we're seeing today of intentionality and how you both really want to make sure you're modeling certain behaviors for your students, and making sure you know that some of their input is important. How they are viewing the course is important, and, you know, recognizing for them. So that kind of that connects directly to our next question here in that sometimes classrooms will have difficult conversations or moments of tension, especially in regards to inclusive practices.
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Jacob Santos
So how do you navigate those moments of tension and conversation in ways that maintain inclusion and psychological safety for your students?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
So great. Great question. Right. So in strategies really specifically looking at, fostering psychological safety. Right. And in hopefully having each learner feel this sense of value in the classroom, in the learning space and feel like they belong. And also, interestingly, right is through establishing clear community agreements, right? So in the first spaces and time together, I literally have this period that we talk back and forth and go, well, what do we think we're going to get out of this space together?
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And what kind of things do we want to agree upon so we can have a productive learning environment? Right? Model curiosity and humility. Right. And acknowledge uncertainty is really part of the learning process, right? Looking for ways to intentionally validate student contributions and encourage respectful dialog and intervene early when some of those norms we've established are challenged. Right.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Psychological safety grows when when students trust that their own lived experiences perspectives will be taken seriously. I intentionally share the expectations of how we will engage during our time together and spend time on explaining the concepts of overlaps between brave space concepts and, my approach that blends some critical concepts of psychological safety and brave space. I call the Care Lead framework, and this stands for,
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Karla Bell (she/they)
The care part stands for center, acknowledge, reframe, and engage, and the lead part stands for learn, evolve, act and debrief. And I explained to them that and I have a graphic that goes along with this. I explained to them that the care part is our initial emotional check part. Right. It reinforces that regulation and safety come before the dialog skill.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And in my major classes, we do a lot of discussions around public policy, politics, structural and social drivers of health. Our health care delivery system and structures and systems in society. And we get into some real challenging and difficult conversations because we all may come to to those discussions from very different lived experiences. And so this is really important for me to get across.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And then the lead part reframes success out of this conversation as growth and responsibility, not agreement. Right. So again, this framework allows us to engage in these challenging discussions in a way that we all walk away understanding that, because I'm actually understanding what you're saying still does not equate to I may not agree with it, but we can model this very effectively.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
And this is how we we should be engaging in all of our conversations. Right? It's not always easy. And I make mistakes and learn from them all the time. I approach difficult moments, you know, with this balance of structure and empathy. That includes pausing when necessary. There's lots of pauses in my class in some of these discussions, naming what's happening and inviting reflection with everyone rather than reaction.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Right. And I encourage the shared responsibility for for dialog and reminds our learners that discomfort is going to be part of the learning. But harm is not.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
What we can do in the classroom is only so much, and a learning environment that is amenable to having all the students at the same time, go through some kind of experience that is designed to give them friction. It's designed to challenge them and to, as best as possible, create a space where we can communicate and have that dialogue.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
And again, the environment when you have 80 students in a student poses a very challenging question that maybe others are thinking as well. Pause is important. Taking a step back is is okay and inviting conversation is is sort of the next step. And in the heat of the moment, you can or at least I know I have like, okay, let's let's see how we can wrap this up in the classroom.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
So we can also like move forward with the learning objectives of the day that go back to that student and say, you know what? You really you made me really think there for a minute. Can we find a time outside of class to talk about this more? And that is where I think my greatest learning happens, is finding a neutral space the neutral space is just as much for them as it is for me to put us on the same playing ground. And again, there doesn't have to be agreement, but there does have to be a sense of, okay, this was good enough.
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Leah Miller
That is, it's it's tough and it's a lot, it's a lot to consider. But I really appreciate that you both focused on like it's not about agreement. Like you're not going to agree with everyone, but it's about reducing harm and growing and having that like responsibility to being a good human to other people.
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Leah Miller
And I think that's beautiful. If we're able to kind of wrap up everything we've talked about today, if we could just summarize everything, what 1 to 2 pieces of advice would each of you give to educators who want to be more inclusive in their teaching?
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I have to break the rules again. I got to do three and I'll keep it quick. The first one is it's not a one and done. Whenever you're learning something and we think about our own fields that we really need to be thinking about fields that complement and are directly opposite of our fields and learn from them. So yes, I'm in the health care professions, I’m an OT, but I love reading business and finance and management work.
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Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I purposefully take free courses in those areas and on topics like diversity and inclusion to hear their perspectives. Of course, they're going to be the same, but I'm going to learn something new. And that's what I love, because then I can bring it in again to my classroom, to my clients, because I'm thinking a little bit differently. So I think learning from people outside of our field is really important.
00:29:44.933 --> 00:30:13.066
Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
The other is listen to your students, be open, ask them what they want. Know that you're never going to meet them 100%. They have their own expectations and that's okay. As long as you're meeting the learning objective and you're building the relationship, you're building your teams and your team's expectations, that's critical. And then the last thing I'll say is, and again, I, I really appreciate being part of this university.
00:30:13.133 --> 00:30:50.133
Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
I do miss our old values. It was always put people first, do what's right, and then it was about innovation. But I can still appreciate pursue excellence because it is about innovating with intent. But the one value that has always remained is putting people first. And if we can do that, because that's what we're here for, that's what we're ethically bound to as educators, as professionals, the rest falls into play. And just give yourself time. You know, you've got a whole career ahead of you.
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Karla Bell (she/they)
Thank you, Audrey. I love that I would say first, start small and be consistent, right? One meaningful change is better than many disconnected efforts. Second view inclusive teaching practices as an ongoing practice rather than a destination, just like Audrey said. Right? One in not you're not done right.
00:31:22.633 --> 00:31:47.300
Karla Bell (she/they)
Listening to students right, reflecting on the impact and being willing to adapt are just as important as any specific strategy. So it's really the your approach to this whole thing too, right? It can be overwhelming. So start with talking with colleagues about their practices and reviewing. So there's this inclusive course design and teaching self-assessment tool that Jefferson College.
00:31:47.300 --> 00:32:34.533
Karla Bell (she/they)
of Rehabilitation Sciences developed. Right. Start with the tool. Pick a couple strategies to start with and build from there. And lastly, I would say I'm a big fan of asking for peer teaching evaluations with specific insights related to inclusive teaching. Our traditional peer evaluations have not honed in on this, and I have actually asked specifically related to my peer teaching evaluations prompts related to inclusive teaching. And so I'm a big fan of adding that as well.
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Jacob Santos
Those are excellent pieces of advice for listeners faculty to take away and mull over. We've given our listeners so much to think about and consider in this, episode. So, this brings us to the end of our interview, for today, Karla and Audrey. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to be here with us, sharing your knowledge and expertise with us and our listeners.
00:33:04.733 --> 00:33:08.633
Audrey Zapletal (she, her)
Thank you both who really appreciate this opportunity.
00:33:08.733 --> 00:33:16.200
Karla Bell (she/they)
Absolutely. I've I've thoroughly enjoyed this engagement. Thank you.
00:33:16.266 --> 00:33:40.066
Demi Harte
Thank you for joining us this month on The Learning Curve. You can find more information and resources related. To this episode at academiccommons.jefferson.edu/thelearningcurve, and we hope to see you at some upcoming. Academic Commons workshops. If you would like to be featured on a future episode of The Learning Curve, please. Contact us using the button on our show page. Thanks for tuning in.
