Visibility Without Strategy Fails

Jade Nangah: If people don't connect with you, if they don't believe in what you have to say, they're like, okay, next, I'm on to the next person. Yeah, there's so many options though. There's so many options. So why would they? You can send traffic to your website all day long, but if it's a crap site, no one's in a convert. If they're polarizing, that's good because that means you're weeding out who was not gonna be for you and who was never going to buy from you anyway. It it's a free platform. It's like a free digital billboard. Right. Like people pay all this money for a billboard that just stands still on the ground. And people drive by. Yeah. Right. But social media is the same thing. Yeah. It's a digital billboard. And especially with the way the algorithm works now. You're working with brands hands-on. What is that big disconnect that you're seeing between what they think they're doing in marketing is that's working versus what actually does work? Or quantity is better than quality. And it's not about the quantity, it's about where your people are. Most brands aren't failing because they're not doing enough. They're failing because they're doing a little bit of everything with no clarity or strategy behind it. And with AI making content creation easier than ever, this problem only worsens. This is the Algorithm Isn't Enough podcast. I'm your host, Jade, founder of VoiceScale, and today I'm joined with Marissa Roper, who owns a boutique digital marketing firm here in Phoenix, Arizona, where she's helping her clients refine their strategy, streamline their processes and their presence. And help them stand out. ⁓ Thank you for coming and chatting to me today. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Okay. So let's let's dive on in, right? So you're working with brands hands-on. What is that big disconnect that you're seeing between what they think they're doing in marketing is that's working versus what actually does work? So there's typically a lack of strategy, a lack of direction, a lack of, okay, this is where, you know, the people that We need to reach R. there are so many digital channels now. And we've kind of gone from this this A to B marketing funnel. Like it used to be right like a straight like you'd come in and you you'd call someone and talk to a sales guy, or you'd go into a store, they'd sell you on the product, you convert. The digital world has completely thrown that out the window. Right. And so now it's almost like a a web. And so it has to do with all these different touch points from all these different areas, all these different you know, email, social media, ads, billboards, if you want to go like super like traditional, right? And so there's so many avenues now. Yeah. And I sometimes feel like brands think that like qual or quantity is better than quality. Right. And it's not about the quantity. It's about where your people are, how to find them, and how to strategically lead them into your funnel. And and that funnel is different now for every single business. And so it's hard for for a lot of businesses that don't have that understanding and that knowledge. They just kinda like are like throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks. Yeah. ⁓ and so with that comes a lot of wasted time and a lot of, you know, things that don't necessarily work. And it is very much trial and error. Yeah. ⁓ but having that understanding of how, you know, all the channels interact together, where your audience is That's kind of ⁓ I feel like where a lot of businesses kind of fall short. One hundred percent. I think that and it wouldn't take that much time. That's the other thing. It doesn't take much time if you're a business owner for you to realize, okay, I'm marketing myself towards these people. Here's where they are online, here are the avenues that we need to hit them. And I guess it also does make it harder because again, marketing is it's a field for reason, right? It's a study for a reason. And so these people aren't necessarily marketing leaders. And so that's why they bring on agencies and yeah. And the people like you to help make them sparkle, right? And so you do talk about helping your client brand sparkle. What does that look like in practice? so it's really about getting so there's so many competitors now, right? There you can go on Google and there's let's say you're looking for a hairstylist or you're looking for a plumber, something like that. There's so many options at your fingertips. ⁓ and so it's really about make like finding out what's special about your brand and what you're services and or services offers product what makes you special and highlighting that. And I feel like a lot of some brands don't do as good of a job with that. Like for example, I have a ⁓ a client of mine is this ⁓ furniture store. They're family owned in Mesa and they carry like all these brands that all these other like main like brand bigger furniture stores don't carry. They also do completely customizable furniture. ⁓ and there's this mom and pop little shop. And so like you wouldn't even know that, you know, and so it's about being able to highlight those those selling points in the right way and on the right channels. Yeah. One hundred percent. And I love that you said that. And so that sparkle that we're talking about, when we're talking about visibility versus like being clear versus that inconsistency, right? How ⁓ how much of that is actually inconsistency versus clarity? Yeah. think a lot of it usually is clarity because I'm a solid believer that less is more. I there there you know we've kind of like gone into this realm of where there's what they call AI slop, right? Like on socials specifically. And it's just people think, ⁓ if I post every day, if I post a million times a day, they blah blah blah. But like if your content isn't sitting or isn't isn't resonating with people, right? Then it's people are just gonna keep scrolling because there's so much content out there. And you have about like the the attention span of the person to catch their attention on social is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And so, you know, if you're not posting stuff that resonates with them, that's to with your messaging. That has to do with how you, you know, bring them in, what your offer is, all of that. ⁓ so if you're not doing the in post all day long, and again it's gonna be the whole like spaghetti effect I was telling you about. And the other the other thing I was gonna mention is the it's hard especially on social because the algorithm's constantly changing. And so what Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn liked, you know, a year ago. Is it necessarily what they like now? And and there's been such a shift in like kind of niche ⁓ marketing and finding those those interest groups. So it's really just about finding your audience and learning how to talk to them and not so much talking about what you do specifically. Obviously they want to you you want them to know what you do, but you're trying to solve you're trying to ⁓ solve a problem. Yeah. And so it should be about them, not about you. One hundred percent. I think the one of the my favorite platforms, I mean it's kind of a love-hate relationship, is Reddit because that is a place where it has to be authentic and sharing value. That's what is that's the value though. Is that it's people that have been through and that that kind of leads me into like kind of what I was thinking about earlier. ⁓ there's this this need for authenticity. People are so being s they're so sick of being sold sold to. ⁓ you know, you skip right through the ads that look like ads. But if you're you know, you have an ad that looks organic or like you could do some like I know there's a lot like there's a big, you know, spike in affiliate marketing and stuff like that right now, like peop or like reviews, people people wanna know what their experience was like with that brand or service. Right. And it's at their fingertips. You go on TikTok, you go on Google Reviews, you go like it and so that's what people need to be focusing on and building, you know, that up because yeah, like Reddit is whenever I have like a a serious problem and it's like a weird topic. go there first because that's where the people that's where the people go. And and usually like that's gonna help me weigh more than some sort of like support one point. For like Meta, for example, I was having that issue. I was having issue with Meta the other day. Yeah. And I went to Reddit versus Meta support because they aren't any help. They're trying to sell you on the next thing. Okay. While you're at it's like no, I want to figure out this issue. And that is something I absolutely love about Reddit and the clients that I've worked with and helping them scale their Reddit. has been such a joy because it was trenches at the beginning and figuring out that need. ⁓ yeah. Well and it's hard because every platform is so different. And so figuring out, you know, what each platform needs, how each platform operates, the purpose of each platform. Yeah. Like 'cause like Facebook versus LinkedIn versus TikTok versus like people go to different platforms for different reasons. And so you need to be marketing on those platforms differently. You need a strategy for each platform. And just because, you know you're on, let's say Pinterest, doesn't mean you need to be on Reddit. It depends on where your people are. It depends on your people are 100%. Where what your industry is, all of that. All the vibes. Okay. Talk to me about how important it is for a founder or a team showing up online versus just the brand itself. ⁓ yeah. This is a big one. ⁓ so and I I I've done some research and kind of learned from experience that we're so we're so dis we're so connected. Right, in the digital world. But yet we're so disconnected because and I think this has happened really since COVID. ⁓ where you know, we went through this phase where we couldn't talk face to face, we couldn't meet face to face and and humans crave human interaction, they crave connection, they crave and so we live in this world where everyone's so connected and then yet we're so disconnected. Yeah. And there's been a a kind of a trend in authenticity and brand storytelling. And people want to know who's behind the brand they're giving their money to. ⁓ that's why the rise of like small businesses and family owned businesses is so big right now. ⁓ but it's it's very much about owning your you know, your company's brand, but then also owning your own brand, especially like as a CEO. ⁓ because people resonate with that. Yeah. People connect with it. And then, you know, there's emotion involved behind when they convert because they know you and they trust you. One hundred percent agree. And that's exactly why what I've been working on with Jet Top Productions and personal branding has been hitting home for me so much. Is just because since COVID especially it seems like if people don't connect with you, if they don't believe in what you have to say, they're like, Okay, next I'm on to the next person. Because there's so many options out there. There's so many options. So why would they decide to spend their money with someone whose values they don't align with or whatever? But I also like to tell people Your ideations and your ideologies, if they're polarizing, that's good because that means you're weeding out who was not gonna be for you and who was never going to buy from you anyway, and allowing that space to be open and for people who are already willing to give that dollar to do it confidently. Yeah. And that's ha that's hard. It's something I've learned in my business because I used to think, ⁓ like they don't want, you know People would be like, ⁓ this sounds great and then like crickets, right? Yeah. As soon as you put like like some dollars in front of you, put a an estimate or like an invoice in front of ⁓ it's like crickets. Yeah. And I used to get so discouraged and I'd be ⁓ my gosh, like, you know, what did I do wrong? And then now I'm like, No, they just weren't my type of client. Yeah. You know, and and it is. It it's a relationship. Like they need and that's what love about doing my own thing and having my own business. Is that before that I worked in agencies for like si six or seven years and you didn't get to choose yeah clients. Sometimes you would have crappy clients that like were not good. Yeah, you know, and it wasn't worth the the headache. Yeah. And so now I pick my I choose my clients as much as they choose me. Yes. And like so that relationship is even stronger. And I I really like that. I love that. I love that. Okay. Talk to me about what's one thing a brand could change this month that would immediately improve how they show up online. That was a good question. Obviously marketing is investment. So and and I work ⁓ at least right now I've been working with a lot of small to medium sized businesses that don't have the same marketing budgets that I used to work with when I worked at you know a top agency in in ⁓ Arizona. I would like to, you know, start getting more of a balance between the two. Like I have a couple larger clients, I have you know a couple of smaller clients. ⁓ but the smaller clients end up kind of being my passion projects because they're the ones that really need the marketing. Yeah. And you have to get creative with it. Very ⁓ because you you know, you don't have a huge budget. Yeah. ⁓ so it is hard to say like what specifically you can be doing without taking a large investment. Right. I think number one would be social content. just showing up. Even if no one likes the posts, even if, you know, like Whatever, you don't think it's perfect. Showing up online, it it's a free platform. It's like a free digital billboard. Right. Like people pay all this money for a billboard that just stands still on the ground and people drive by. Yeah. Right. But social media is the same thing. Yeah. It's a digital billboard. And especially with the way the algorithm works now, you they show more of not just it used to be they they showed like what you who you follow, right? And now they're showing based on interest. And that's kind of why these n these niche like industries and these niche interests are starting to pop up and you will find your community if you just keep posting. Like eventually it will get to them. That's why TikTok has always been so great because they show things to you regardless if you follow them or not. And I think that's amazing from a visibility standpoint. Social media for sure, especially video content, ⁓ static stuff just doesn't hit the right way 'cause again it just doesn't have that same kind of authenticity. Yeah. ⁓ and that same kind of human connection. I would say if you do have a little bit of money to invest, ads. But make them so that they don't look like ads. Right. if they, you know, it's just a static ads trying to sell you something, skip right away. But if it's someone, you know, using your product, or like that's why TikTok shop is blown up so much, right? Because it's people it's real people showing like, hey, like this is the product I got, and people are like, ⁓ I want to know because I'm interested in this product. And so it it serves value. Yeah. ⁓ I think the other thing ⁓ Is SCO ⁓ and website UX. So you can send traffic to your website all day long, but if it's a crap site, no one's gonna convert. If you someone comes into your store and the store's a mess, people are gonna be like, ew, this place sucks, and they're gonna walk out. And so ⁓ if you go to the site and it's super slow or it's confusing, or people have to click around or something, like again, the attention span is like this. Yep. And so they you know, you don't make it as easy as possible for them, they're gonna be like, ⁓ whatever, go somewhere else. Right. ⁓ so that's a big one. ⁓ and then SEO so that your website's showing up, but it's completely changed the game with AI. So it's SEO with also AEO. Yes, exactly. And that that's something that's still very, very new. People are kind of still trying to figure out. One thing that I've been doing for ⁓ most of my clients where I manage their their website and their content. Is making sure that ⁓ there's more informational content on their site. So like FAQs are huge now because when someone types in, ⁓ like, you know, I need this and this, blah blah blah, they'll pop up in that little answer box if you have informational content on your site. So that's like FAQs are huge. We've been rewriting all of our clients' FAQs. I've been big on answer pages actually and creating entire sections of websites. just like whatever your site is dot com slash answers where we're talking in plain terms how someone might be searching it online and we're giving them a max a ninety word blurb that AI and LLMs can cite easily and pull from. Yep. If you're not utilizing answer pages, absolutely start experimenting with that. That that blogs blogs. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, those are probably the the top ones I would say that are things you could potentially stir out yourself. But at the end of the day, like Just get just get a marketing person. Just get like even if it's even if it's internal, everyone is so like like the answer I've been getting lately with the all all the AI stuff is just like, ⁓ well AI can just do it. And I'm like It's like the why isn't Yes, they I mean they can. Like A or AI can, ⁓ it doesn't mean it's gonna do it well. No. It AI is a tool. A AI equals accessibility. Right. So you're able to do so many more things where you needed all these skill sets before. It it it you know, not necessarily cuts corners, but it makes it easier. It gets you to from point it's streams lines. Thank you. Yes, it streamlines it. And but you still need the strategist behind it. You still need the the puppeteer correct pulling the strings. Human touch will always be necessary. Because if you if you you know feed AI a crap marketing strategy, it's gonna give you crap back. Or if you let AI could just create some marketing strategy. Yes, exactly. With no context. And and I always tell my clients like you have your whole business to run, don't try to market yourself too. Right. Like have someone do it. And and there are affordable people out there. Like everyone's always like, ⁓ my gosh, like they're either they're either overwhelmed by the marketing or they don't understand it. Yeah. They don't understand the value. Yeah. Or they don't think they can afford it. But there are affordable options out there. It's just about finding the right company, the right person, ⁓ even if you hire internally, but if you if you don't focus on marketing twenty four seven like all day every day You shouldn't be doing it yourself. One hundred percent. Agreed. Okay. Well, thank you for coming. Tell the people where they can find you. I'll put everything on the screen. Where can we find you? How can we interact with you? Who what clients are you serving? Wha how can people reach out? Yeah. So ⁓ my name is Marissa Roper. ⁓ my business is ⁓ Riley Marketing. And you can find me at ⁓ Rally Marketing dot com. ⁓ you can also find me on social, same thing. I think my Instagram's actually ⁓ dot Riley dot marketing. ⁓ but it's yeah. Facebook, LinkedIn also. Perfect. Well, thank you for coming. And thank you guys for tuning in. If you take anything away from this conversation, it should be that visibility is not about doing more, it's about doing things right and taking the time and experimenting to figure out what that looks like for you, your company, and your ideal customers. So I thank you guys for watching and hanging out with us today. We'll see you in the next one.