Tim Pool vs Progressives | Surrounded Follow-Up

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This is the weirdest thing.
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I criticized Donald Trump.
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I referred to him as a developmentally disabled individual.
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I argued with Joe Roden that ivermectin did not work.
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You know,
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you say you don't think either sides will ever meet in the middle.
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They're never going to agree.
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We're talking about the fact that there's a
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top-down approach by Republicans like Donald Trump.
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Can I ask you the question again?
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Can you answer the question and allow it to happen,
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foment violence in this country?
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Can you answer you're running cover for it.
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If you are only getting sound bites on.
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Shorts,
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TikTok,
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Instagram,
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you're gonna think I'm sitting here banging on the
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table with a hammer screaming the end is nigh,
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which is just not true.
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From Jubilee Media,
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this is the Surrounded podcast.
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I'm Paris Rose filling in for John Regalado,
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and we've got another follow-up episode for you today.
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And quick reminder,
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we have new releases every Sunday.
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So if you want to get more surrounded,
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be sure to like,
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subscribe,
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and follow us wherever you get your podcasts.
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Thanks so much.
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All right.
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Well,
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hello,
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Tim.
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Good to see you again.
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Likewise,
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thanks for having me.
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Well,
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thanks for jumping into the circle to debate 20
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progressives and thank you for joining us for this round of podcast.
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So I'm really curious,
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what made you interested in joining the show?
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Have you done anything like this before?
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I mean,
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I've done debates.
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Uh,
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we,
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we've done,
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um,
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a show we have called the Culture War where we'll have,
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you know,
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54 or 5 people up on stage and then we let the audience kind of interact.
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But
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I don't know,
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I've,
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I've,
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obviously,
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I've seen the Surroundings before and,
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uh,
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I thought it's a great opportunity to
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dispel some misconceptions,
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have a conversation,
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meet some new people.
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I think
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we accomplished all of these things.
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Whether or not anybody agrees with me,
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you know,
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you got to hear me a bit,
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I suppose.
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Now for those of us who don't know,
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can you give us a little bit more about your background and how you got into politics?
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Well,
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I've always been,
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since I was a kid,
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uh,
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the internet got me involved in politics just cause,
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uh,
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my family had the internet before I was born.
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We had CompuServe on DOS.
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Most people probably know,
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don't even know what that means.
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But,
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uh,
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getting on AOL when I'm like 9 or 10 and playing video games,
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news headlines every time you log in.
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And so I just started paying attention and reading news at a very early age,
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but
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right around the time I was 1314,
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I started listening to punk music,
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mostly pop punk,
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which then turns into
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real punk,
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which is very political.
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And then with the,
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the Iraq War,
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the protests,
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you know,
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growing up in Chicago,
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we're just surrounded by it the whole time.
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So I started paying attention quite,
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uh,
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quite a bit.
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And I actually worked for a handful of big nonprofits when I was,
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uh,
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2021 years old,
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actually fundraising for,
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say,
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the ACLU Greenpeace and all that.
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So then by the time I'm
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25,
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26,
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and Occupy Wall Street is happening,
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I'm down there,
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I'm filming
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and
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There you go.
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From there it's uh working for Vice,
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working for ABC
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then eventually starting my own company and launching my own podcast.
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Yeah,
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I think a lot of people might recognize you from Occupy Wall Street in in that era.
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Now,
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I know you haven't watched the episode yet.
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You haven't seen any of the clips.
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So,
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uh
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we're gonna get into that today.
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I really want to start with one of your surrounding claims,
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which was the United States is tracking towards civil war.
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Because that one got everyone in a tizzy.
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So I'm going to play that clip
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and see how you guys interacted with Costanza.
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I don't want to live in a country where people
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are attacking each other without trying to understand each other.
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Right,
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but the rhetoric that you're spewing is leading towards that.
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You want Trump
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again,
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which means the rhetoric that you're spewing online,
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the political
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commentary that you're spewing online
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is
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teasing.
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I don't want Donald Trump.
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Will they,
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won't they,
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will they,
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won't they?
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I don't want Donald Trump for a third term.
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No,
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but I would,
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I would prefer,
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uh,
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you know,
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JD Vance,
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maybe Rubio,
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but
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that's still MAGA
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and indeed,
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and understand that Trump won the plurality of the vote in 2024 and
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he has a large support base despite his polls being very low.
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He does,
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and we'll see what happens with the Republican Party in 2026 and 2028.
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But you can't just
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wish away the existence of a polar of a of a another political faction
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with a polarized worldview compared to yours.
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I do not see a reality
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where Republicans accept the worldview of the of the
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progressives who are gaining ground in multiple places,
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namely in New York,
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and I don't see the progressives accepting
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the,
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the,
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the Trump worldview as you've described it.
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And the reason
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that we're not going to
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accept
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it is because people like you and the reason we don't accept it is people like you.
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So,
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in that clip,
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you,
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uh,
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you said you don't see Republicans accepting
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the progressive worldview and vice versa.
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So what specific trends make you think that divide
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is becoming irreconcilable rather than just another cycle of,
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you know,
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political polarization?
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Well,
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uh,
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if we go back to 2021,
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the issue of immigration
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is particularly pronounced even today,
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I think,
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um,
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I'll just preface this by saying,
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we had the ICE
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shootings in January
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2 people died.
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And neither side is going to accept
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what that was.
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If you go back to 2021,
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we saw a very,
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uh,
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heated circumstance where
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the Texas State Guard
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was in a physical confrontation with
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federal authorities under the Biden administration.
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The Biden administration had filed a lawsuit
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to allow them to remove the physical barriers
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from the southern border to allow people to illegally enter the country.
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The,
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the entry of,
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uh,
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non-citizens,
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uh,
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outside of a port of entry is actually a violation of,
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of codified US law.
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For the Biden administration to use federal law enforcement to remove the barriers
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allowing these people to come in
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would be to facilitate a criminal activity.
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Whether or not you believe those people deserved asylum after the fact is,
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is different.
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So you have armed Texas State Guard
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in a standoff with federal authorities in 2021.
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Now I can't say
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fortunately since then,
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we have seen things calm down in that capacity a little bit.
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I mean,
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it's pretty shocking.
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When you're you're coming off January 6th,
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and then 7 or 8 months later,
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you have the Texas,
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Texas deploying State Guard,
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you had multiple states deploying National Guard to other states,
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specifically to confront federal authorities.
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But now we're still dealing with,
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you know,
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Trump has largely secured the border,
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but now you have ICE and CBP going through various cities.
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They're arresting people.
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We had a viral video just recently where a woman was trying to board a plane,
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I believe it was in Denver,
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and she was,
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she had overstayed her visa,
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so she was illegally remaining in the country.
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CBP or I believe it was a CBP,
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it might have been ICE,
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they arrest her,
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and the narrative that we get from the progressives
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is that she was here legally
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and she was being kidnapped.
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And the narrative that we get from the conservatives is that
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she had overstayed her visa,
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was here illegally,
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and was being deported.
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Well,
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I'll just say this.
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Obviously I have my biases,
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but
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when you look at the facts of the case,
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the woman,
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uh,
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came here,
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overstayed her visa by about a year,
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and was
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being arrested and deported for overstaying her visa.
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If you don't like the laws of this country,
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then Congress needs to change those things.
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But to characterize it as a legal individual
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being kidnapped is,
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it's hyperpartisan.
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And so ultimately it doesn't matter if,
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if my,
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if I'm correct or incorrect as to the assessment of what happened.
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What matters,
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what matters is
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you have
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two factions,
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as it's described by uh Stephen Marsh and various other academics and journalists.
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You have a
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multicultural democracy
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and a constitutional republic
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existing within the borders of one country.
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These are diametrically opposed worldviews as to the structure of governance,
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as to the,
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the moral framework of,
288
00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:13.220
of our judicial system.
289
00:07:13.520 --> 00:07:14.790
They're never going to agree.
290
00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:14.990
It's,
291
00:07:15.080 --> 00:07:15.870
it's not possible.
292
00:07:15.960 --> 00:07:16.230
This,
293
00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:17.700
this divergence started
294
00:07:17.880 --> 00:07:19.300
20 or so years ago.
295
00:07:19.520 --> 00:07:20.230
You could argue it,
296
00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:22.390
it started in academia in the 60s and 70s,
297
00:07:22.610 --> 00:07:24.840
but becoming pronounced with political factions
298
00:07:25.080 --> 00:07:27.030
in the late 2000s and the 2010s,
299
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.420
I don't see a reality where
300
00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:31.460
You are going to convince
301
00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:34.940
an American constitutional republicanist
302
00:07:35.200 --> 00:07:38.260
that we should abolish the Senate the way the DSA is proposing,
303
00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.280
and I don't see a scenario where you're going to convince
304
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:43.710
Democratic Socialists of America or Progressives
305
00:07:43.990 --> 00:07:46.020
that the founding of this country was
306
00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:46.870
legitimate.
307
00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:48.300
The worldviews are just
308
00:07:48.640 --> 00:07:49.670
the antithesis of each other.
309
00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:50.630
Costanza,
310
00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:51.220
your opponent,
311
00:07:51.280 --> 00:07:51.430
you know,
312
00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:52.720
she suggested that.
313
00:07:53.170 --> 00:07:57.760
Commentators like you are contributing to this polarization.
314
00:07:58.050 --> 00:07:58.210
You know,
315
00:07:58.290 --> 00:08:00.680
you say you don't think either sides will ever meet in the middle.
316
00:08:00.770 --> 00:08:02.010
They're never going to agree.
317
00:08:02.410 --> 00:08:06.140
Do you think political commentators have any responsibility
318
00:08:06.380 --> 00:08:09.490
to lower this temperature and work towards
319
00:08:09.670 --> 00:08:10.680
this middle ground?
320
00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:13.690
I don't think that that is possible.
321
00:08:13.860 --> 00:08:16.280
So she is absolutely correct when she says,
322
00:08:16.460 --> 00:08:20.440
I as a political commentator contribute to the atmosphere in this country,
323
00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:21.080
but
324
00:08:21.180 --> 00:08:21.890
I'll put it like this,
325
00:08:21.910 --> 00:08:22.960
this is the weirdest thing.
326
00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:25.240
I criticized Donald Trump as I,
327
00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:26.290
I do fairly often.
328
00:08:26.370 --> 00:08:26.500
I mean,
329
00:08:26.580 --> 00:08:27.210
I voted for him,
330
00:08:27.260 --> 00:08:27.410
I,
331
00:08:27.500 --> 00:08:28.330
I wanna see him succeed,
332
00:08:28.380 --> 00:08:29.530
but I absolutely
333
00:08:29.880 --> 00:08:30.040
Uh,
334
00:08:30.210 --> 00:08:32.049
ragged on him over the Iran war and things of that nature,
335
00:08:32.169 --> 00:08:35.230
and the media still characterizes it as though I'm a,
336
00:08:35.330 --> 00:08:37.590
a hardcore mega far-right Trump supporter,
337
00:08:37.850 --> 00:08:38.770
despite the fact
338
00:08:38.890 --> 00:08:41.559
I referred to him as a developmentally disabled individual
339
00:08:41.929 --> 00:08:43.190
in a more crass manner,
340
00:08:43.490 --> 00:08:46.870
and they still refer to me as like some far-right die-hard Trump guy.
341
00:08:47.290 --> 00:08:48.400
I guess cause I voted for him.
342
00:08:48.450 --> 00:08:50.710
If I go on my show and I say something like,
343
00:08:50.890 --> 00:08:53.480
I don't think we should have initiated this war with Iran,
344
00:08:53.690 --> 00:08:56.680
I don't think Trump is legitimately trying to solve this problem.
345
00:08:56.970 --> 00:08:57.270
If
346
00:08:57.390 --> 00:08:57.760
If
347
00:08:58.120 --> 00:08:59.730
taking those positions
348
00:09:00.380 --> 00:09:02.760
never reach the progressive audience,
349
00:09:02.990 --> 00:09:04.530
then the only thing they have is,
350
00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:07.920
is assumptions about me based on fake content they've seen from somewhere else.
351
00:09:08.030 --> 00:09:08.330
So let,
352
00:09:08.420 --> 00:09:08.580
let me,
353
00:09:08.660 --> 00:09:09.600
let me phrase it like this.
354
00:09:09.900 --> 00:09:10.010
Well,
355
00:09:10.060 --> 00:09:11.920
I certainly think I have opinions,
356
00:09:12.260 --> 00:09:13.160
biases,
357
00:09:13.380 --> 00:09:16.440
and I am going to say things that they will not like.
358
00:09:16.540 --> 00:09:18.400
I think the reality is to use,
359
00:09:18.580 --> 00:09:18.690
uh,
360
00:09:18.780 --> 00:09:18.890
this,
361
00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:19.130
this,
362
00:09:19.180 --> 00:09:19.610
this surrounding.
363
00:09:19.780 --> 00:09:20.610
As a perfect example,
364
00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:24.680
there was one individual who claimed that I was shoving ivermectin up my,
365
00:09:24.900 --> 00:09:25.050
you know,
366
00:09:25.210 --> 00:09:25.250
I'll,
367
00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:27.120
I'll refrain from being too uncouth.
368
00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:30.130
But I have never promoted ivermectin one time.
369
00:09:30.220 --> 00:09:30.660
In fact,
370
00:09:30.860 --> 00:09:33.960
I argued with Joe Roda that ivermectin did not work,
371
00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:35.250
and to this day I've maintained,
372
00:09:35.300 --> 00:09:36.710
I do not believe there's
373
00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:37.960
conclusive evidence of this.
374
00:09:38.260 --> 00:09:39.330
Why is it then
375
00:09:39.610 --> 00:09:41.160
that these progressives come in
376
00:09:41.340 --> 00:09:42.500
under the assumption
377
00:09:42.900 --> 00:09:43.490
that I would be,
378
00:09:43.540 --> 00:09:43.960
say,
379
00:09:44.260 --> 00:09:46.500
promoting ivermectin or something of that nature,
380
00:09:46.870 --> 00:09:48.090
because they don't actually know who I am.
381
00:09:48.810 --> 00:09:49.800
And so I would say this,
382
00:09:49.970 --> 00:09:50.080
while,
383
00:09:50.210 --> 00:09:52.960
while every political commentator contributes to the atmosphere,
384
00:09:53.330 --> 00:09:57.470
there is a surface level to the way social media algorithms work,
385
00:09:57.880 --> 00:09:59.030
that's making sure
386
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:00.400
these young people,
387
00:10:00.650 --> 00:10:01.400
not necessarily all young,
388
00:10:01.450 --> 00:10:02.450
but these progressives,
389
00:10:02.690 --> 00:10:05.920
are never going to actually watch my show and
390
00:10:05.920 --> 00:10:08.000
hear my real opinions on what's going on.
391
00:10:08.350 --> 00:10:08.740
Instead,
392
00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:10.170
what they're going to get is
393
00:10:10.510 --> 00:10:13.500
some other progressive commentator cherry-picking the most
394
00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:15.330
shocking thing they can out of context
395
00:10:15.510 --> 00:10:17.180
to try and generate views.
396
00:10:17.470 --> 00:10:19.010
There's a really funny example of this.
397
00:10:19.350 --> 00:10:21.930
There's a series of videos on YouTube that are titled
398
00:10:22.310 --> 00:10:23.850
Joe Rogan Shocked,
399
00:10:24.270 --> 00:10:25.490
and what they'll do is
400
00:10:25.750 --> 00:10:28.860
they will edit a fake clip of any political commentator.
401
00:10:29.380 --> 00:10:32.040
Put a clip of Joe Rogan being shocked in front of it,
402
00:10:32.140 --> 00:10:34.160
and they get millions of views from this.
403
00:10:34.300 --> 00:10:36.720
And there are people who genuinely believe
404
00:10:37.100 --> 00:10:39.850
that I was sitting on Joe Rogan's show talking to
405
00:10:39.850 --> 00:10:42.200
him about immigration in the UK which never happened.
406
00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:45.090
But if your worldview is built on social media
407
00:10:45.090 --> 00:10:47.280
algorithms convincing you this is what I believe,
408
00:10:47.500 --> 00:10:48.920
you're gonna come into a debate
409
00:10:49.460 --> 00:10:50.840
totally confused,
410
00:10:51.020 --> 00:10:53.050
thinking that I believe incorrect things.
411
00:10:54.230 --> 00:10:54.380
Well,
412
00:10:54.470 --> 00:10:57.380
I think another issue that the progressives were having
413
00:10:57.380 --> 00:11:00.220
with you is feeling that you weren't taking accountability.
414
00:11:00.310 --> 00:11:01.300
They were saying that
415
00:11:01.430 --> 00:11:04.980
they felt like you were really fueling this fire of there's gonna be a civil war,
416
00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:06.220
there's gonna be a civil war.
417
00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:06.950
And so,
418
00:11:07.110 --> 00:11:08.240
kind of what you're saying,
419
00:11:08.470 --> 00:11:12.300
they already have this idea of you that you are MAGA no matter what you say,
420
00:11:12.390 --> 00:11:13.920
even if you call out Trump,
421
00:11:14.070 --> 00:11:15.620
they feel like no matter what,
422
00:11:15.790 --> 00:11:16.660
you're MAGA.
423
00:11:16.950 --> 00:11:17.170
So,
424
00:11:17.350 --> 00:11:17.540
you know,
425
00:11:17.670 --> 00:11:18.940
what has to happen
426
00:11:19.190 --> 00:11:19.780
for you to say,
427
00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:20.140
you know,
428
00:11:20.270 --> 00:11:20.860
I was wrong,
429
00:11:20.950 --> 00:11:23.110
the country isn't headed in that direction at all.
430
00:11:23.730 --> 00:11:24.910
I take those words back.
431
00:11:25.340 --> 00:11:25.440
Well,
432
00:11:25.490 --> 00:11:26.720
it's fascinating because my,
433
00:11:26.850 --> 00:11:30.080
my actual position is that we are in a period of civil strife
434
00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:32.520
for which the next phase would be civil war.
435
00:11:32.750 --> 00:11:35.970
We have no guarantee that this actually would lead to a civil war.
436
00:11:36.330 --> 00:11:39.800
The civil rights era in the 1950s into the 1960s was considered
437
00:11:39.800 --> 00:11:42.440
a period of civil strife that did not result in civil war.
438
00:11:42.810 --> 00:11:46.010
So what I would argue is they're mischaracterizing my opinion
439
00:11:46.290 --> 00:11:48.590
because they don't actually listen to what I say,
440
00:11:48.810 --> 00:11:50.350
nor actually watch my show,
441
00:11:50.530 --> 00:11:52.690
and they're being fueled by grifters who are
442
00:11:52.690 --> 00:11:54.320
trying to make money through shock content.
443
00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:56.510
That's definitely a possibility
444
00:11:56.900 --> 00:11:57.490
for sure.
445
00:11:57.980 --> 00:11:58.840
I'll stress it again.
446
00:11:59.030 --> 00:12:00.890
Every single time I've done a
447
00:12:01.060 --> 00:12:03.340
I've done a show talking about the prospect of civil war,
448
00:12:03.540 --> 00:12:06.550
it's been in reference to articles from the mainstream press,
449
00:12:06.700 --> 00:12:07.470
from The Atlantic,
450
00:12:07.590 --> 00:12:08.520
The New York Times.
451
00:12:08.740 --> 00:12:12.080
I've never just fabricated a whole cloth and argument
452
00:12:12.140 --> 00:12:13.490
that I think we're drifting in this direction.
453
00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:16.920
My show is based on pulling the top news stories of the day,
454
00:12:17.130 --> 00:12:18.680
and then we opine on them,
455
00:12:18.750 --> 00:12:20.920
either on my morning show where I do it as a
456
00:12:20.920 --> 00:12:23.510
monologue or with Tim Cast IRL with 3 other guests.
457
00:12:23.810 --> 00:12:25.630
So if the New York Times writes an article saying,
458
00:12:25.970 --> 00:12:26.440
Barbara F.
459
00:12:26.520 --> 00:12:26.840
Walter,
460
00:12:26.970 --> 00:12:29.730
former CIA warns the US is headed towards civil war,
461
00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:31.680
and then we opine on that.
462
00:12:32.060 --> 00:12:35.130
That is not to say I decided to push this narrative,
463
00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:35.610
but again,
464
00:12:35.660 --> 00:12:38.260
these people don't actually look at what I'm saying,
465
00:12:38.420 --> 00:12:39.330
and I'm not trying to blame them.
466
00:12:39.420 --> 00:12:41.420
I think that the mechanisms of social media,
467
00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:43.720
the monetization structures result in this.
468
00:12:44.020 --> 00:12:46.280
But every single conversation we've had on this,
469
00:12:46.300 --> 00:12:46.930
I have said,
470
00:12:47.260 --> 00:12:49.880
There is no guarantee we actually go into a civil war.
471
00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:51.080
For all we know,
472
00:12:51.300 --> 00:12:52.660
this is just one hot moment,
473
00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:53.930
it's a blip on the radar.
474
00:12:54.140 --> 00:12:55.400
Things will calm down.
475
00:12:55.820 --> 00:12:58.730
If you are only getting soundbites on shorts,
476
00:12:58.780 --> 00:12:59.170
TikTok,
477
00:12:59.260 --> 00:12:59.920
Instagram,
478
00:13:00.220 --> 00:13:01.770
you're gonna think I'm sitting here banging on the
479
00:13:01.770 --> 00:13:03.530
table with a hammer screaming the end is nigh,
480
00:13:03.630 --> 00:13:04.720
which is just not true.
481
00:13:05.070 --> 00:13:05.210
Yeah,
482
00:13:05.300 --> 00:13:07.270
I do think that's an issue with
483
00:13:07.540 --> 00:13:07.850
whatever.
484
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:08.110
Whoever
485
00:13:08.270 --> 00:13:09.500
side you agree with
486
00:13:09.750 --> 00:13:10.370
that
487
00:13:10.550 --> 00:13:12.580
social media is just feeding you what you want to hear,
488
00:13:12.710 --> 00:13:13.580
what you want to see,
489
00:13:13.710 --> 00:13:15.730
and people are only watching clips
490
00:13:15.970 --> 00:13:18.900
just to reconfirm and validate what they already had in mind.
491
00:13:19.030 --> 00:13:19.410
So
492
00:13:19.550 --> 00:13:21.260
I do feel like we are stuck there.
493
00:13:21.510 --> 00:13:22.420
Let me give you a good example.
494
00:13:22.510 --> 00:13:25.330
I think one of the individuals said something to the effect of,
495
00:13:25.550 --> 00:13:28.580
you have 40 videos talking about civil war.
496
00:13:29.250 --> 00:13:30.440
I would just like to stress,
497
00:13:30.570 --> 00:13:34.910
we have 1570 or so episodes of Timcast IRL.
498
00:13:34.970 --> 00:13:37.640
Or if he's talking about the inclusion of my morning show,
499
00:13:37.970 --> 00:13:38.400
interview show,
500
00:13:38.450 --> 00:13:39.590
and Timcast IRL,
501
00:13:39.770 --> 00:13:41.190
we're looking at somewhere around,
502
00:13:41.250 --> 00:13:43.680
in just terms of full podcast episodes,
503
00:13:44.050 --> 00:13:46.270
perhaps around 4500.
504
00:13:46.570 --> 00:13:47.510
But if we're looking at
505
00:13:47.650 --> 00:13:48.680
every clip,
506
00:13:48.770 --> 00:13:50.150
every segment we produce,
507
00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:52.560
because we produce about from Timcast IRL,
508
00:13:52.610 --> 00:13:54.050
which is a 3 hour long show,
509
00:13:54.370 --> 00:13:58.400
we will produce 5 segments from the show that are between 10 and 20 minutes long.
510
00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:01.270
Now we're looking at around 30,000 different clips.
511
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.980
I think 40 is a rather small percentage if that's the case.
512
00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:04.670
Yeah,
513
00:14:04.800 --> 00:14:05.140
I mean,
514
00:14:05.400 --> 00:14:06.350
whether you
515
00:14:06.520 --> 00:14:07.680
think it's we're heading toward,
516
00:14:07.800 --> 00:14:09.260
we're in a political strife right now,
517
00:14:09.400 --> 00:14:11.030
we're headed toward a civil war,
518
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:12.640
we're headed toward a revolution.
519
00:14:12.800 --> 00:14:13.740
Do you feel like
520
00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:15.630
something is necessary
521
00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:17.870
for change at this moment?
522
00:14:18.160 --> 00:14:19.100
Or do you feel like,
523
00:14:19.280 --> 00:14:19.430
you know,
524
00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:20.990
a revolution wouldn't be helpful,
525
00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:22.500
civil war wouldn't be helpful?
526
00:14:22.770 --> 00:14:24.390
What are you none of it's helpful.
527
00:14:24.540 --> 00:14:25.260
I had a gentleman,
528
00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:27.830
a liberal on my show and we we were debating the issue.
529
00:14:28.330 --> 00:14:28.480
And,
530
00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:28.640
and,
531
00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:29.010
and again,
532
00:14:29.050 --> 00:14:31.990
it's always from the pretext of Tim Poole saying it's gonna happen.
533
00:14:32.090 --> 00:14:33.120
And then as soon as I clarify,
534
00:14:33.250 --> 00:14:33.360
no,
535
00:14:33.410 --> 00:14:34.150
I'm saying,
536
00:14:34.490 --> 00:14:34.660
you know,
537
00:14:34.730 --> 00:14:35.850
we had a former CIA,
538
00:14:36.010 --> 00:14:36.110
uh,
539
00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:36.560
uh,
540
00:14:37.050 --> 00:14:37.680
analyst.
541
00:14:37.770 --> 00:14:38.440
She wrote a book about this,
542
00:14:38.530 --> 00:14:38.920
Barbara F.
543
00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:39.670
Walters saying
544
00:14:40.170 --> 00:14:42.280
that in her experience tracking all these other countries,
545
00:14:42.410 --> 00:14:44.080
the United States is in a similar vein.
546
00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:45.400
All of a sudden they're like,
547
00:14:45.490 --> 00:14:45.560
well,
548
00:14:45.650 --> 00:14:47.230
what am I supposed to debate now?
549
00:14:47.770 --> 00:14:47.880
But,
550
00:14:47.970 --> 00:14:48.080
uh,
551
00:14:48.210 --> 00:14:48.400
what I,
552
00:14:48.490 --> 00:14:49.360
what I always say to them is,
553
00:14:49.410 --> 00:14:50.200
let me ask you this question.
554
00:14:50.290 --> 00:14:51.480
They always say it's not possible,
555
00:14:51.550 --> 00:14:52.980
a civil war can't happen in the United States.
556
00:14:53.020 --> 00:14:53.320
And I say,
557
00:14:53.370 --> 00:14:53.480
OK,
558
00:14:53.610 --> 00:14:53.720
fine,
559
00:14:53.850 --> 00:14:53.960
yeah,
560
00:14:54.090 --> 00:14:54.320
whatever,
561
00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:55.030
whatever you think.
562
00:14:55.210 --> 00:14:56.120
But let me ask you this question.
563
00:14:57.070 --> 00:14:59.810
Do you believe Donald Trump will use the military
564
00:15:00.400 --> 00:15:01.650
to round up
565
00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:02.940
migrants in this country?
566
00:15:03.150 --> 00:15:03.670
To which,
567
00:15:04.030 --> 00:15:04.580
at the time,
568
00:15:04.670 --> 00:15:05.320
the answer was,
569
00:15:05.550 --> 00:15:05.700
yes,
570
00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:06.580
I do think he will.
571
00:15:06.660 --> 00:15:06.820
OK,
572
00:15:06.950 --> 00:15:07.060
well,
573
00:15:07.230 --> 00:15:07.980
Trump actually did.
574
00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:09.670
Marines were deployed to California,
575
00:15:09.870 --> 00:15:11.060
they went to marijuana farms,
576
00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:13.380
and they were pulling migrant children working
577
00:15:13.380 --> 00:15:15.460
on marijuana farms from those farms,
578
00:15:15.510 --> 00:15:17.860
as well as arresting older individuals for
579
00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:19.500
deportation who were working on those farms.
580
00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:20.220
So that did happen.
581
00:15:20.270 --> 00:15:21.810
The question I have for the progressives is,
582
00:15:22.150 --> 00:15:24.380
will you do anything about it?
583
00:15:25.370 --> 00:15:26.850
And invariably the response is,
584
00:15:27.010 --> 00:15:27.520
yes.
585
00:15:27.970 --> 00:15:28.080
So,
586
00:15:28.170 --> 00:15:28.520
so this is,
587
00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:29.390
this is my point.
588
00:15:29.770 --> 00:15:30.000
We had a,
589
00:15:30.050 --> 00:15:33.640
we had a narrative in 2024 that Donald Trump would use the military against,
590
00:15:33.770 --> 00:15:33.880
uh,
591
00:15:33.970 --> 00:15:35.110
migrants in this country
592
00:15:35.290 --> 00:15:36.000
that were here,
593
00:15:36.130 --> 00:15:36.210
uh,
594
00:15:36.290 --> 00:15:36.480
uh,
595
00:15:36.810 --> 00:15:38.030
that were not authorized to be here.
596
00:15:38.050 --> 00:15:39.710
I'm trying to be light in my political language.
597
00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:43.950
And the response from progressives is they would do whatever they had to,
598
00:15:43.970 --> 00:15:45.430
to stop Trump from doing that.
599
00:15:46.290 --> 00:15:46.430
Well,
600
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:47.380
I don't know what
601
00:15:47.520 --> 00:15:49.020
you can do to stop
602
00:15:49.160 --> 00:15:50.900
a marine being deployed
603
00:15:51.040 --> 00:15:52.130
to California
604
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.420
to physic to to assist physically
605
00:15:54.560 --> 00:15:55.630
in the apprehension
606
00:15:55.800 --> 00:15:56.160
of these,
607
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:57.140
of these immigrants,
608
00:15:57.880 --> 00:16:00.560
unless you're referring to some kind of violent escalation.
609
00:16:00.760 --> 00:16:01.190
So again,
610
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:01.470
my,
611
00:16:01.520 --> 00:16:04.740
my perspective on this is not based on what I think I would do,
612
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:06.310
or anyone in my neighborhood would do.
613
00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:08.740
It's based on what we see from the willingness
614
00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:11.470
of conservatives in terms of the use of,
615
00:16:11.490 --> 00:16:11.690
uh,
616
00:16:11.770 --> 00:16:13.260
legitimate government power,
617
00:16:13.530 --> 00:16:15.320
whether it's used legitimately or illegitimately,
618
00:16:15.370 --> 00:16:15.840
I'm saying,
619
00:16:16.010 --> 00:16:17.230
federal law enforcement,
620
00:16:17.410 --> 00:16:18.590
duly sworn in
621
00:16:18.690 --> 00:16:20.710
and dispatched by the president versus
622
00:16:21.010 --> 00:16:22.640
what progressive activists,
623
00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:23.360
organizations,
624
00:16:23.410 --> 00:16:25.190
NGOs are willing to do to counter that.
625
00:16:25.710 --> 00:16:25.910
The,
626
00:16:25.970 --> 00:16:27.640
the argument ultimately becomes this.
627
00:16:28.570 --> 00:16:32.120
You either get what the progressives would view as a fascist dictatorship,
628
00:16:32.450 --> 00:16:33.230
a revolution,
629
00:16:33.650 --> 00:16:36.070
or what the conservatives would describe as the
630
00:16:36.210 --> 00:16:38.520
dissolution of our borders and a communist revolution.
631
00:16:39.410 --> 00:16:39.990
If
632
00:16:40.330 --> 00:16:41.270
nobody fights.
633
00:16:41.610 --> 00:16:43.920
So if the conservatives simply just say we're
634
00:16:43.920 --> 00:16:45.530
gonna turn everything down and we're gonna stop,
635
00:16:45.650 --> 00:16:46.160
and we're gonna,
636
00:16:46.290 --> 00:16:49.070
we're gonna let them do what they're doing as they march to the streets,
637
00:16:49.290 --> 00:16:49.960
as they,
638
00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:50.240
you know,
639
00:16:50.370 --> 00:16:52.940
shoot and kill individuals like Aaron Danielson or Charlie Kirk,
640
00:16:53.280 --> 00:16:54.360
well then the end result,
641
00:16:54.530 --> 00:16:55.950
based on that arithmetic is
642
00:16:56.330 --> 00:16:57.050
you will get a,
643
00:16:57.130 --> 00:16:57.280
a,
644
00:16:57.330 --> 00:16:58.650
a democratic socialist,
645
00:16:58.810 --> 00:17:01.160
ultimately a socialist or communist revolution in this country.
646
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:03.440
And from the argument of the progressives,
647
00:17:03.580 --> 00:17:06.599
if Trump is going to deploy the military to round up his political enemies
648
00:17:06.770 --> 00:17:07.560
and arrest
649
00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:10.040
migrants with the use of military force,
650
00:17:10.300 --> 00:17:11.770
then you'll get a fascist dictatorship.
651
00:17:12.900 --> 00:17:14.010
Now you can choose to fight,
652
00:17:14.300 --> 00:17:15.640
in which case you'd get a civil war.
653
00:17:15.740 --> 00:17:17.050
So I don't know what will happen.
654
00:17:17.130 --> 00:17:18.310
It's entirely possible
655
00:17:18.730 --> 00:17:18.930
that,
656
00:17:19.060 --> 00:17:19.329
uh,
657
00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:19.770
you know,
658
00:17:19.819 --> 00:17:19.930
I,
659
00:17:20.020 --> 00:17:23.210
I don't think we're gonna have a communist revolution or a fascist dictatorship.
660
00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:23.720
I think
661
00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:24.690
both of the,
662
00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:26.240
of the politically entrenched
663
00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:28.079
view it a bit more
664
00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:30.760
extreme than I think what we're actually witnessing.
665
00:17:31.060 --> 00:17:33.370
But I do think we are facing a dramatic transformation.
666
00:17:33.800 --> 00:17:36.970
And I don't know how it can be reconciled with the current
667
00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:39.800
existence of two distinct body politics.
668
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:40.700
That is,
669
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:43.590
Zoran Mamdani engaging in foreign affairs when
670
00:17:43.590 --> 00:17:45.320
he threatened the arrest of Netanyahu,
671
00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:47.390
overtly violates the Logan Act.
672
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:50.500
Of course we're not going to see any law enforcement pertaining to the Logan Act
673
00:17:50.810 --> 00:17:51.950
against the mayor of New York,
674
00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:52.550
but it's
675
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:53.300
pretty
676
00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:54.550
crazy to see a mayor.
677
00:17:54.980 --> 00:17:57.160
Threatened to arrest a foreign dignitary,
678
00:17:57.250 --> 00:17:58.550
which it's very strange.
679
00:17:58.690 --> 00:17:58.920
I don't,
680
00:17:59.010 --> 00:18:00.120
I don't see how with New York,
681
00:18:00.290 --> 00:18:00.770
Colorado,
682
00:18:00.890 --> 00:18:02.300
the rise of the DSA,
683
00:18:02.810 --> 00:18:03.000
I mean,
684
00:18:03.050 --> 00:18:05.440
the DSA is talking about abolishing the Senate,
685
00:18:05.810 --> 00:18:07.880
which is firmly in the Constitution and
686
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.510
can only be abolished if the Constitution itself
687
00:18:10.770 --> 00:18:11.160
is,
688
00:18:11.370 --> 00:18:11.640
is,
689
00:18:11.770 --> 00:18:11.840
uh,
690
00:18:11.890 --> 00:18:12.160
uh,
691
00:18:12.550 --> 00:18:14.000
removed as the supreme law of the land.
692
00:18:14.770 --> 00:18:15.800
You have a
693
00:18:16.090 --> 00:18:17.640
political faction saying they wanna do that.
694
00:18:18.590 --> 00:18:18.660
No,
695
00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:20.480
I wanna uh kind of stop you there because I,
696
00:18:20.510 --> 00:18:21.490
I wanna move on
697
00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:23.300
to another claim that you had.
698
00:18:23.350 --> 00:18:25.920
I think it really will tie in to what you're saying now.
699
00:18:26.270 --> 00:18:26.420
Um,
700
00:18:26.520 --> 00:18:30.610
this claim of yours was that the mainstream political left commits more violence
701
00:18:30.750 --> 00:18:32.370
than the mainstream political right.
702
00:18:32.590 --> 00:18:32.660
Um,
703
00:18:32.750 --> 00:18:32.810
so,
704
00:18:32.830 --> 00:18:35.210
I'm gonna play a clip from a conversation you had with Mason.
705
00:18:35.310 --> 00:18:36.010
I think
706
00:18:36.190 --> 00:18:37.580
it really ties into what you're saying.
707
00:18:38.280 --> 00:18:40.020
There seems to be like a broader implication
708
00:18:40.020 --> 00:18:42.230
with your prompt that there's this domestic threat
709
00:18:42.390 --> 00:18:44.730
from mainstream left politicians
710
00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:46.260
like do you really think Hillary Clinton's
711
00:18:46.260 --> 00:18:48.150
like leading the Vanguard Revolution Party?
712
00:18:48.270 --> 00:18:48.610
Like
713
00:18:48.850 --> 00:18:50.060
what what what is your take?
714
00:18:50.390 --> 00:18:52.510
When you look at the violence that we do see
715
00:18:52.750 --> 00:18:53.700
uh there's it's it's.
716
00:18:53.850 --> 00:18:54.570
It's from,
717
00:18:54.670 --> 00:18:54.730
I,
718
00:18:54.830 --> 00:18:54.940
I,
719
00:18:55.030 --> 00:18:56.830
I describe it as from blunt to acute,
720
00:18:56.910 --> 00:18:57.650
which is
721
00:18:58.110 --> 00:18:59.120
with the fringe extreme right,
722
00:18:59.140 --> 00:19:00.130
you'll see extreme,
723
00:19:00.430 --> 00:19:00.570
uh,
724
00:19:00.750 --> 00:19:01.340
mass shootings.
725
00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:01.690
You'll see,
726
00:19:02.010 --> 00:19:02.150
you know,
727
00:19:02.230 --> 00:19:04.300
someone will show up and unload on people,
728
00:19:04.390 --> 00:19:05.060
things like that.
729
00:19:05.270 --> 00:19:05.820
On the left though,
730
00:19:05.870 --> 00:19:06.730
you'll see riots,
731
00:19:06.750 --> 00:19:08.860
vandalism that you don't see from the right,
732
00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:09.440
but
733
00:19:09.750 --> 00:19:11.650
The point I'm making is that when you break down
734
00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:15.010
the ideology that motivates individuals that commit political violence,
735
00:19:15.310 --> 00:19:17.620
there is more often an overlap
736
00:19:17.620 --> 00:19:20.130
between what the Democratic Party espouses ideologically
737
00:19:20.350 --> 00:19:23.710
and what we see in street level violence as well as maybe assassinations.
738
00:19:23.790 --> 00:19:25.460
What is what the Republicans would espouse.
739
00:19:25.750 --> 00:19:25.940
I mean,
740
00:19:25.990 --> 00:19:27.370
I couldn't disagree more.
741
00:19:27.510 --> 00:19:27.610
What,
742
00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:30.100
what ideologies that the Democratic Party is promoting
743
00:19:30.100 --> 00:19:31.420
that leads to these types of violence?
744
00:19:31.550 --> 00:19:34.860
Anytime you see an act of violence that's typically attributed to the left,
745
00:19:35.110 --> 00:19:35.980
it is immediately condemned.
746
00:19:36.110 --> 00:19:37.450
By every Democrat politician,
747
00:19:37.610 --> 00:19:39.840
you couldn't point to one that actually endorses that
748
00:19:40.010 --> 00:19:42.480
where you have somebody like Donald Trump who's literally the president of the
749
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.790
United States saying that we should call for the death of congressional members
750
00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:48.600
who are fulfilling their civic duty and saying,
751
00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:48.960
hey,
752
00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:50.070
maybe you shouldn't,
753
00:19:50.090 --> 00:19:50.260
uh,
754
00:19:50.330 --> 00:19:52.760
fulfill illegal orders if you're in the military
755
00:19:52.890 --> 00:19:54.800
and Donald Trump's asking for them to be put to death.
756
00:19:54.970 --> 00:19:57.000
How is that not inciting violence?
757
00:19:57.100 --> 00:19:57.120
No,
758
00:19:57.250 --> 00:19:57.440
that is,
759
00:19:57.490 --> 00:19:58.530
that's absolutely terrifying.
760
00:19:58.600 --> 00:19:59.630
I completely disagree with that.
761
00:19:59.810 --> 00:19:59.890
My,
762
00:20:00.010 --> 00:20:01.770
my point more so is that when you see,
763
00:20:01.890 --> 00:20:02.250
say,
764
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.660
The George Floyd or the BLM riots,
765
00:20:04.870 --> 00:20:05.940
you end up with
766
00:20:06.110 --> 00:20:08.500
Biden and Kamala themselves promoting fundraisers for
767
00:20:08.500 --> 00:20:10.180
those accused of committing these crimes.
768
00:20:10.510 --> 00:20:10.930
So
769
00:20:11.070 --> 00:20:15.010
you drew a distinction between what you called acute violence
770
00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:17.450
on the right and more sustained violence
771
00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:19.830
like riots and vandalism on the left.
772
00:20:19.990 --> 00:20:22.750
So why do you think that distinction matters?
773
00:20:22.910 --> 00:20:24.570
There are very few
774
00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:26.450
high profile
775
00:20:26.590 --> 00:20:28.890
right wing attacks relative to left.
776
00:20:29.870 --> 00:20:30.620
One is too many.
777
00:20:31.090 --> 00:20:31.200
Uh,
778
00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:32.470
so you see somebody,
779
00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:33.160
um,
780
00:20:33.530 --> 00:20:33.680
you know,
781
00:20:33.770 --> 00:20:34.950
go into a church and,
782
00:20:35.050 --> 00:20:35.160
you know,
783
00:20:35.290 --> 00:20:35.680
shoot up a,
784
00:20:35.770 --> 00:20:35.800
a,
785
00:20:35.890 --> 00:20:36.960
a black congregation.
786
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.840
And I call that acute,
787
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:39.460
meaning
788
00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:41.350
it is a singular instance of some of
789
00:20:41.350 --> 00:20:45.530
the most extreme violence and most detestable and evil
790
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:46.540
that we could see.
791
00:20:46.800 --> 00:20:47.630
We want those to stop,
792
00:20:47.650 --> 00:20:48.260
obviously.
793
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.420
On the left you'll see something like 3000 instances of
794
00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:53.800
people getting punched in the face,
795
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:55.150
bashed over the head.
796
00:20:55.450 --> 00:20:56.140
Fires set,
797
00:20:56.250 --> 00:20:57.350
buildings destroyed.
798
00:20:57.790 --> 00:20:59.150
So blunt is,
799
00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:00.790
you get a lot of a little bit,
800
00:21:01.100 --> 00:21:04.480
which these stories typically don't individually make national news.
801
00:21:04.730 --> 00:21:07.010
And then with what we would call right-wing,
802
00:21:07.170 --> 00:21:07.750
you get
803
00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:08.960
rather extreme,
804
00:21:09.050 --> 00:21:10.710
a guy showing up with a gun and shooting a lot of people.
805
00:21:10.930 --> 00:21:11.120
However,
806
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:11.440
there's a,
807
00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:12.440
there's a more important distinction,
808
00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:12.880
which was the,
809
00:21:12.970 --> 00:21:13.080
the,
810
00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:14.490
the core of the claim,
811
00:21:15.090 --> 00:21:15.750
is that
812
00:21:16.090 --> 00:21:18.500
I don't believe it's meaningful to tell a voter,
813
00:21:18.760 --> 00:21:20.400
the right is more violent.
814
00:21:20.840 --> 00:21:23.350
Because if we look at the Cato Institute
815
00:21:23.450 --> 00:21:24.400
or even the FBI,
816
00:21:24.870 --> 00:21:26.620
They're not referring to Charlie Kirk,
817
00:21:26.710 --> 00:21:29.420
they're not referring to Steven Crowder or Ben Shapiro.
818
00:21:29.690 --> 00:21:34.530
They're referring to an unnamed Grand Dragon of the Klan that no one's ever heard of.
819
00:21:34.990 --> 00:21:37.050
In one particular instance that got a lot of attention,
820
00:21:37.300 --> 00:21:39.290
I believe it was the Cato Institute that claimed
821
00:21:39.510 --> 00:21:39.930
a,
822
00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.610
a white supremacist who punched his wife and got arrested for it was an instance
823
00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:45.380
of white supremacist violence.
824
00:21:45.890 --> 00:21:46.000
Well,
825
00:21:46.090 --> 00:21:46.480
look,
826
00:21:46.730 --> 00:21:49.480
if the Republican Party says white supremacy is bad,
827
00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:52.750
and Charlie Kirk was kicking out white nationalists from his events,
828
00:21:52.850 --> 00:21:54.520
and Nick Fuentes was barred from,
829
00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:54.670
uh,
830
00:21:54.770 --> 00:21:56.150
he was barred from the RNC,
831
00:21:56.370 --> 00:21:57.040
from CPAC,
832
00:21:57.130 --> 00:21:58.510
from all these organizations,
833
00:21:59.010 --> 00:22:01.410
it's not meaningful to a voter to put
834
00:22:01.610 --> 00:22:04.280
those ideologies alongside the Republican Party.
835
00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:06.520
So when we talk about left and right,
836
00:22:06.850 --> 00:22:09.400
by all means you can include whatever elements you think are left and right,
837
00:22:09.490 --> 00:22:11.320
but I think when we're coming to a midterm in voting,
838
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:12.250
We,
839
00:22:12.520 --> 00:22:15.120
we want to draw the distinction between the mainstream
840
00:22:15.320 --> 00:22:18.700
liberal and left and the mainstream conservative and right,
841
00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:19.910
in which case,
842
00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:22.630
You see almost no violence.
843
00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:23.070
There,
844
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:23.430
there's,
845
00:22:23.520 --> 00:22:24.230
there's zero
846
00:22:24.380 --> 00:22:27.580
instances of Charlie Kirk's supporters following his death going around
847
00:22:27.750 --> 00:22:28.670
smashing windows,
848
00:22:28.800 --> 00:22:30.200
setting fires or murdering people.
849
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:30.750
In fact,
850
00:22:30.840 --> 00:22:34.130
there's an estimate of between 24 and 34 murders
851
00:22:34.280 --> 00:22:36.830
that took place following the killing of George Floyd,
852
00:22:37.040 --> 00:22:40.140
who was not even a prominent political activist.
853
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.390
It is an objective fact,
854
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:42.990
and this is what's,
855
00:22:43.040 --> 00:22:44.030
what's fascinating to me in,
856
00:22:44.080 --> 00:22:44.980
in the whole debate.
857
00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:47.350
When you look at just news articles.
858
00:22:47.850 --> 00:22:48.060
So,
859
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:48.310
uh,
860
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:48.870
my company,
861
00:22:48.940 --> 00:22:50.580
we did an analysis tracking just
862
00:22:50.800 --> 00:22:51.310
ABC,
863
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:51.990
New York Times,
864
00:22:52.080 --> 00:22:52.470
NBC,
865
00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:53.180
CBS,
866
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.710
and we found over 465 instances of high profile,
867
00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.870
what one could describe as terrorism
868
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.500
over the past 10 years coming from the left,
869
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:03.620
and one
870
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:04.270
coming from the right.
871
00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:04.490
Now I,
872
00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:05.860
I wanna clarify what that means.
873
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.060
I'm not talking about fringe anti-government communist revolutionaries,
874
00:23:10.360 --> 00:23:14.310
and I am not talking about fringe white nationalists and ultra-nationalists.
875
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:17.170
I am talking about individuals who are motivated by an
876
00:23:17.170 --> 00:23:20.990
ideological cause espoused by the Democrat or Republican Party.
877
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:21.590
That is
878
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:23.060
who comes out
879
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:24.760
and says Elon Musk
880
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:25.150
is,
881
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:25.550
is,
882
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:25.830
is,
883
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.550
is bad,
884
00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:27.720
he's got to be stopped,
885
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:29.070
he should not have this money,
886
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.700
and then people take guns and go and unload on Tesla vehicles.
887
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.260
That is motivated by an overlapping ideology.
888
00:23:35.560 --> 00:23:38.430
But we have not seen free speech activists wearing Charlie Kirk
889
00:23:38.430 --> 00:23:42.100
shirts going around and shooting up campuses or setting fires.
890
00:23:43.800 --> 00:23:46.420
Would you say that one of the biggest,
891
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:46.910
uh,
892
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.690
riots in modern history was at our nation's Capitol
893
00:23:50.080 --> 00:23:51.030
on January 6th,
894
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:51.230
uh,
895
00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:52.950
where government officials.
896
00:23:53.170 --> 00:23:55.500
And police officers and anyone who got in their way
897
00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.710
were under attack by the right and then pardoned by Trump.
898
00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:00.260
So do you feel that,
899
00:24:00.520 --> 00:24:00.710
you know,
900
00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:04.700
him pardoning those people kind of embolden the right and
901
00:24:05.030 --> 00:24:06.740
has been one of the most violent
902
00:24:06.980 --> 00:24:08.950
riots in our modern history?
903
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:09.270
Well,
904
00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:10.680
the January 6th was not.
905
00:24:11.050 --> 00:24:12.560
One of the most violent riots in our,
906
00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:13.380
in our history
907
00:24:13.610 --> 00:24:14.560
by the numbers in
908
00:24:14.760 --> 00:24:15.050
modern,
909
00:24:15.130 --> 00:24:15.750
in modern.
910
00:24:16.010 --> 00:24:16.040
No,
911
00:24:16.130 --> 00:24:16.200
it,
912
00:24:16.410 --> 00:24:17.150
it still isn't.
913
00:24:17.250 --> 00:24:17.710
First of all,
914
00:24:17.730 --> 00:24:20.120
obviously January 6th is abhorrent and it's,
915
00:24:20.690 --> 00:24:21.280
I think if you,
916
00:24:21.370 --> 00:24:22.560
if you line up,
917
00:24:22.730 --> 00:24:22.920
uh,
918
00:24:23.050 --> 00:24:24.430
if you compare January 6th
919
00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:27.160
to 90+% of what we've seen from progressives,
920
00:24:27.220 --> 00:24:28.240
it's just worse.
921
00:24:28.610 --> 00:24:28.680
Right?
922
00:24:28.770 --> 00:24:29.190
You had,
923
00:24:29.330 --> 00:24:29.480
uh,
924
00:24:29.610 --> 00:24:30.790
an estimate of,
925
00:24:31.250 --> 00:24:32.600
I think you had between 1000 and
926
00:24:32.600 --> 00:24:34.480
2000 individuals who actually entered the building.
927
00:24:34.860 --> 00:24:37.890
You had an estimate of around 800 to 1000 who
928
00:24:37.890 --> 00:24:40.690
were engaged in some kind of violence against the police.
929
00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:42.090
All of that is very,
930
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:42.830
very bad.
931
00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:46.880
I don't think when you compare this to what we've seen going back 10 years
932
00:24:47.060 --> 00:24:47.770
in modern history,
933
00:24:47.900 --> 00:24:48.310
it's
934
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.140
It's gonna fall somewhere,
935
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:50.550
uh,
936
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:52.390
in the middle of the bulk of the riots,
937
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:52.940
if we're just,
938
00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:53.190
uh,
939
00:24:53.270 --> 00:24:53.430
uh,
940
00:24:53.660 --> 00:24:54.270
comparing riots.
941
00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:56.590
But the reason why I say it's worse is because it was at our Capitol,
942
00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:58.030
it obstructed our,
943
00:24:58.100 --> 00:24:58.310
our,
944
00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:00.020
our constitutional processes,
945
00:25:00.320 --> 00:25:01.470
and that makes it substantially worse.
946
00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:02.590
In terms of damage,
947
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:03.600
violence,
948
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:04.580
injuries,
949
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:06.150
it's actually not.
950
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:06.300
In,
951
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:06.790
in fact,
952
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:07.110
uh,
953
00:25:07.280 --> 00:25:08.430
one thing that's often overlooked,
954
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:09.010
which is
955
00:25:09.820 --> 00:25:12.020
I find it to be frustrating is the M29
956
00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:14.210
insurrection that we saw in DC.
957
00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:15.950
We had several 1000
958
00:25:16.340 --> 00:25:17.440
far leftists
959
00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:18.960
beating police,
960
00:25:19.180 --> 00:25:20.230
over 100
961
00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:21.720
federal officers
962
00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:22.680
injured.
963
00:25:23.020 --> 00:25:25.540
They tore the barricades down at the White House,
964
00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:28.070
threw firebombs on the White House grounds,
965
00:25:28.260 --> 00:25:30.240
and set fire to Saint John's Church.
966
00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:33.560
The president was forced into an emergency bunker where he,
967
00:25:34.060 --> 00:25:34.130
I,
968
00:25:34.260 --> 00:25:34.330
I,
969
00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:37.770
I would describe it as embarrassingly pretended like he wasn't.
970
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:40.800
But he was called in the media bunker boy,
971
00:25:41.080 --> 00:25:43.420
having been forced into the emergency bunker.
972
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:45.200
Now nobody breached the White House,
973
00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:47.830
but they did set fire to a historic American church,
974
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:48.700
which is terrifying.
975
00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:50.470
Had they actually breached the,
976
00:25:50.560 --> 00:25:50.710
the,
977
00:25:50.760 --> 00:25:51.510
the fencing,
978
00:25:51.800 --> 00:25:54.070
we would call that one of the darkest days in American history.
979
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:54.470
Now,
980
00:25:54.560 --> 00:25:55.420
now the question is,
981
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:57.940
why did we not get any hearings on this?
982
00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:01.480
There were substantially more injuries on that day than we saw on January 6th,
983
00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:02.350
but don't get me wrong,
984
00:26:02.390 --> 00:26:03.760
it's not to excuse January 6th,
985
00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:04.860
it's all bad.
986
00:26:05.080 --> 00:26:05.660
It's just,
987
00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:06.710
for whatever reason,
988
00:26:07.370 --> 00:26:08.160
Progressives
989
00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:09.420
don't care
990
00:26:09.620 --> 00:26:11.880
about the M29 insurrection at the White House.
991
00:26:12.140 --> 00:26:12.950
I'm going to stress this.
992
00:26:13.130 --> 00:26:14.510
They ripped the barricades down.
993
00:26:14.610 --> 00:26:16.790
They threw firebombs on the White House grounds
994
00:26:16.930 --> 00:26:18.640
and set fire to the church across the street.
995
00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:19.870
This was terrifying
996
00:26:20.050 --> 00:26:20.680
for me and my,
997
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:20.960
my,
998
00:26:21.050 --> 00:26:22.390
my friends and family who live
999
00:26:22.560 --> 00:26:23.720
just outside of DC,
1000
00:26:24.090 --> 00:26:25.400
but it's remarkable that
1001
00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:27.180
the Republicans don't seem to care
1002
00:26:27.290 --> 00:26:29.040
and the Democrats don't seem to care and the progressives,
1003
00:26:29.090 --> 00:26:29.280
I think,
1004
00:26:29.550 --> 00:26:30.150
supported it.
1005
00:26:30.570 --> 00:26:31.590
Now as for the pardons,
1006
00:26:31.800 --> 00:26:33.640
there's a very important distinction here.
1007
00:26:34.630 --> 00:26:38.530
What we were looking at with the criminal charges on January 6th is,
1008
00:26:38.830 --> 00:26:39.030
first,
1009
00:26:39.070 --> 00:26:40.860
let me just say anybody who attacked a cop,
1010
00:26:40.950 --> 00:26:41.730
tore the barricades down,
1011
00:26:41.750 --> 00:26:43.090
and stormed the Capitol deserved prison.
1012
00:26:44.110 --> 00:26:45.010
And they got it.
1013
00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:45.490
In fact,
1014
00:26:45.620 --> 00:26:49.560
many of these people got solitary confinement on and off for 3 years.
1015
00:26:50.040 --> 00:26:53.950
The question that I ask for anybody who's concerned about those pardons is simple.
1016
00:26:54.500 --> 00:26:56.050
How much time in prison
1017
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:57.550
should an individual
1018
00:26:57.670 --> 00:27:00.700
who rioted at the Capitol and attacked a police officer get?
1019
00:27:01.070 --> 00:27:02.010
This is not a gotcha.
1020
00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:03.490
This is not a,
1021
00:27:03.750 --> 00:27:05.330
it's a legitimate question.
1022
00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:06.570
Now I think
1023
00:27:06.870 --> 00:27:08.570
reasonably what I would argue is
1024
00:27:08.870 --> 00:27:12.100
if you were one of the leftist rioters at the White House on May 29th,
1025
00:27:12.190 --> 00:27:12.860
2020.
1026
00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:15.730
And you were one of the people who injured one of these officers,
1027
00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:17.960
I would argue that a year or two in federal
1028
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.280
prison probably is enough time for the crime you committed.
1029
00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:23.220
For the J-6ers,
1030
00:27:23.470 --> 00:27:26.450
you had individuals who actually never even fought police,
1031
00:27:26.590 --> 00:27:28.380
who got 1 to 2 years in prison.
1032
00:27:28.790 --> 00:27:29.990
So herein lies the problem.
1033
00:27:30.270 --> 00:27:32.680
The Capitol Police set up offices around the country,
1034
00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:35.420
they wrongly raided innocent individuals' home.
1035
00:27:35.470 --> 00:27:36.520
There was a woman in Alaska,
1036
00:27:36.830 --> 00:27:40.270
they raided her home and and arrested her even though she was not even in the Capitol,
1037
00:27:40.670 --> 00:27:42.360
only to later realize their mistake.
1038
00:27:42.750 --> 00:27:44.980
Now you had hundreds of those cases.
1039
00:27:45.500 --> 00:27:47.650
So the challenge presented on the right
1040
00:27:47.860 --> 00:27:48.730
is that first,
1041
00:27:48.770 --> 00:27:52.240
the rioters who attacked police were already in prison for 3 years,
1042
00:27:52.610 --> 00:27:54.030
probably long enough.
1043
00:27:54.460 --> 00:27:57.600
The rest of these people who got misdemeanor trespass charges,
1044
00:27:57.780 --> 00:28:00.660
some were put in solitary and some were in prison for over 1 year.
1045
00:28:01.100 --> 00:28:02.160
My opinion is
1046
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:04.360
when you have a process this tainted,
1047
00:28:04.580 --> 00:28:06.010
the pardons are warranted.
1048
00:28:06.340 --> 00:28:08.670
And if there is a complaint over some of these bad
1049
00:28:08.670 --> 00:28:11.730
people being parted to later on got arrested for other crimes,
1050
00:28:11.860 --> 00:28:12.680
the issue is
1051
00:28:12.820 --> 00:28:15.960
when you blanket over 1000 to 2000 people,
1052
00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:18.670
some of whom were peaceful and entered the building
1053
00:28:18.820 --> 00:28:21.170
from the other side where there was no riot.
1054
00:28:21.620 --> 00:28:24.520
You've created a serious conflict in this country
1055
00:28:24.820 --> 00:28:25.770
to lower the temperature,
1056
00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:27.420
I believe a mass pardon is warranted,
1057
00:28:27.700 --> 00:28:30.530
just like we saw in the early days of this country.
1058
00:28:31.290 --> 00:28:32.390
When there were many individuals
1059
00:28:32.570 --> 00:28:33.840
who fought in an early war,
1060
00:28:33.890 --> 00:28:34.760
I believe it was Jefferson,
1061
00:28:34.930 --> 00:28:36.120
issued a blanket pardon
1062
00:28:36.370 --> 00:28:39.150
for a bunch of farmers who were rebelling against the government,
1063
00:28:39.410 --> 00:28:40.360
the argument being,
1064
00:28:40.830 --> 00:28:41.000
OK,
1065
00:28:41.090 --> 00:28:42.040
we've arrested these people,
1066
00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:43.310
we've taken from them.
1067
00:28:43.930 --> 00:28:46.550
If we are going to lock up thousands of people,
1068
00:28:46.690 --> 00:28:48.650
you are going to turn the temperature way up.
1069
00:28:48.890 --> 00:28:50.790
I would make the same argument for those
1070
00:28:50.930 --> 00:28:52.570
on May 29th and 2020
1071
00:28:52.770 --> 00:28:54.360
that had they been in prison and many
1072
00:28:54.360 --> 00:28:56.670
of them in solitary confinement for three years,
1073
00:28:56.810 --> 00:28:58.490
I would also advocate for their release.
1074
00:28:59.640 --> 00:28:59.830
Well,
1075
00:29:00.040 --> 00:29:01.620
where do you draw the line between,
1076
00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:02.110
you know,
1077
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:04.420
a politician expressing support
1078
00:29:04.670 --> 00:29:06.440
for a movement or
1079
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:08.070
a riot insurrection
1080
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:12.180
and then being responsible for the violence committed by the people
1081
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:13.330
in that movement?
1082
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:13.730
Yeah,
1083
00:29:13.800 --> 00:29:13.990
I don't,
1084
00:29:14.080 --> 00:29:15.180
I don't hold any of these,
1085
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:15.590
uh,
1086
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:16.100
uh,
1087
00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:16.470
you know,
1088
00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:17.550
all these Democrats,
1089
00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:17.710
you know,
1090
00:29:17.800 --> 00:29:19.340
Elizabeth Warren being a great example.
1091
00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:21.540
She is allowed to express her opinion,
1092
00:29:21.800 --> 00:29:23.260
and I appreciate that she does.
1093
00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:26.640
She holds no responsibility if someone who agrees with her worldview
1094
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:27.950
decides to be violent.
1095
00:29:28.370 --> 00:29:30.840
Because all of these Democrats have denounced violence,
1096
00:29:30.930 --> 00:29:32.030
and I'm glad that they do,
1097
00:29:32.330 --> 00:29:36.470
and I don't respect Donald Trump coming out and threatening the death penalty,
1098
00:29:36.770 --> 00:29:36.880
uh,
1099
00:29:37.130 --> 00:29:37.720
against these,
1100
00:29:37.810 --> 00:29:39.600
these Democrats who are saying do not,
1101
00:29:39.730 --> 00:29:39.840
uh,
1102
00:29:40.010 --> 00:29:40.200
you know,
1103
00:29:40.290 --> 00:29:41.730
do not obey illegal orders.
1104
00:29:41.930 --> 00:29:42.560
There are a lot of,
1105
00:29:42.700 --> 00:29:43.040
uh,
1106
00:29:43.410 --> 00:29:44.120
political arguments,
1107
00:29:44.210 --> 00:29:44.640
but I,
1108
00:29:44.730 --> 00:29:47.720
I don't think this country has served with what Trump said.
1109
00:29:48.020 --> 00:29:48.120
Uh,
1110
00:29:48.210 --> 00:29:48.880
that being said,
1111
00:29:49.460 --> 00:29:50.880
The point I'm making is that
1112
00:29:51.490 --> 00:29:52.540
mainstream
1113
00:29:52.780 --> 00:29:55.450
run of the mill conservatives and moderates are not picking
1114
00:29:55.450 --> 00:29:58.760
up guns and Molotovs because of the things Republicans say
1115
00:29:59.100 --> 00:30:00.020
for the most part.
1116
00:30:00.310 --> 00:30:01.690
January 6th involved,
1117
00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:05.250
I think there were a couple of individuals who were arrested on gun possession in DC.
1118
00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:08.210
Most of them did not have firearms or explosives.
1119
00:30:08.740 --> 00:30:09.930
But then we see with the left.
1120
00:30:10.850 --> 00:30:12.350
I mean you can see the motivations
1121
00:30:12.620 --> 00:30:14.260
for the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
1122
00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:16.480
By all means there are many people who are
1123
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.520
claiming that Israel or the government killed him,
1124
00:30:18.610 --> 00:30:19.000
but
1125
00:30:19.170 --> 00:30:20.680
if we're going just by positive evidence,
1126
00:30:20.770 --> 00:30:22.450
this is a guy who said he was hateful,
1127
00:30:22.650 --> 00:30:23.480
and so he killed him.
1128
00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:27.470
I think a better example is the he wasn't necessarily tied to the left,
1129
00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:28.660
progressives or
1130
00:30:29.060 --> 00:30:32.540
Tyler Robinson was motivated according to the evidence released by
1131
00:30:32.740 --> 00:30:34.650
by uh Charlie Kirk having spread hate.
1132
00:30:35.300 --> 00:30:35.910
To put it simply,
1133
00:30:36.020 --> 00:30:39.400
if you are in a relationship with a non-binary individual,
1134
00:30:39.820 --> 00:30:39.930
uh,
1135
00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:43.800
a claim Charlie Kirk is a is is spreading hate and then decide to go and end his life,
1136
00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:46.610
I don't think we can say that person is a moderate or conservative.
1137
00:30:46.660 --> 00:30:46.810
This is,
1138
00:30:46.900 --> 00:30:47.280
this is,
1139
00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:48.890
this is an ideology that is,
1140
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:50.010
let me put it very simply.
1141
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:54.110
If all Tyler Robinson ever said was this man
1142
00:30:54.110 --> 00:30:56.150
spreads hate and that's all we knew about him,
1143
00:30:56.520 --> 00:30:56.960
I could say,
1144
00:30:57.040 --> 00:30:57.570
OK,
1145
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:01.870
AOC said the exact same thing in the halls of Congress after Charlie was murdered.
1146
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:02.910
That is an
1147
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:04.290
ideological overlap.
1148
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:07.790
I'm not suggesting AOC wanted Charlie Kirk dead or advocates for violence.
1149
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:10.420
I am saying that when Charlie Kirk came out and said
1150
00:31:10.600 --> 00:31:12.360
we should defend free speech,
1151
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.460
no one showed up and shot
1152
00:31:14.840 --> 00:31:16.220
an Antifa protester
1153
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:17.630
for advocating against it.
1154
00:31:17.760 --> 00:31:19.300
We don't see those instances.
1155
00:31:19.520 --> 00:31:20.940
So I'll put it like this
1156
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.240
the George Floyd riots or the BLM riots,
1157
00:31:23.520 --> 00:31:24.320
however you want to describe it,
1158
00:31:24.360 --> 00:31:27.260
in 2020 were considered to be some of the worst riots we had seen
1159
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:28.740
in 50 years.
1160
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.460
There's an estimated 24 to 34 deaths depending on how people want to calculate
1161
00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:34.390
these murders.
1162
00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:35.350
One was
1163
00:31:36.080 --> 00:31:36.510
David Dorn,
1164
00:31:36.560 --> 00:31:37.750
a retired police officer.
1165
00:31:38.260 --> 00:31:41.320
He went to his friend's pawn shop and took a bullet to the chest.
1166
00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:44.410
These were rioters that were out in the street for an ideological cause.
1167
00:31:44.460 --> 00:31:46.420
I know many of them were just exploiting that cause,
1168
00:31:46.580 --> 00:31:47.440
but here's the issue.
1169
00:31:47.780 --> 00:31:51.250
As many of these individuals set fire to buildings and were arrested for it,
1170
00:31:51.580 --> 00:31:53.220
Kamala Harris and Joe Biden,
1171
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:55.360
Personally
1172
00:31:55.540 --> 00:31:57.930
solicited donations on their behalf.
1173
00:31:58.250 --> 00:32:00.820
Now you've got to hold people responsible
1174
00:32:00.980 --> 00:32:02.960
if they are providing money
1175
00:32:03.300 --> 00:32:04.970
for those who committed these crimes.
1176
00:32:05.060 --> 00:32:06.170
And absolutely
1177
00:32:06.620 --> 00:32:06.810
when,
1178
00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:08.600
when you have people on the right
1179
00:32:08.780 --> 00:32:11.250
that were advocating that people who are beating
1180
00:32:11.250 --> 00:32:12.810
cops on January 6th shouldn't go to jail,
1181
00:32:13.100 --> 00:32:14.730
they should be called out all the same.
1182
00:32:15.320 --> 00:32:15.820
But
1183
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:17.680
I will just stress in this capacity,
1184
00:32:18.040 --> 00:32:18.940
we have,
1185
00:32:19.080 --> 00:32:19.230
uh,
1186
00:32:19.320 --> 00:32:22.660
some 465 tracked incidents over the past 10 years,
1187
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:24.220
and a consistent
1188
00:32:24.360 --> 00:32:25.830
defense from Democrats
1189
00:32:26.120 --> 00:32:27.750
over the individuals accused.
1190
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.750
While I'm not going to accuse any Democrats of coming out and saying explicitly,
1191
00:32:30.870 --> 00:32:31.710
go be violent,
1192
00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:34.020
we have numerous instances where they have,
1193
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:34.280
they have,
1194
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.580
they have a famous quote,
1195
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:36.580
It is,
1196
00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:39.310
respect the diversity of tactics.
1197
00:32:39.870 --> 00:32:41.410
And what that means is
1198
00:32:41.710 --> 00:32:41.860
the,
1199
00:32:41.950 --> 00:32:44.700
the surface level term that most people would take it to mean is
1200
00:32:45.030 --> 00:32:47.460
if somebody is going to engage in violence.
1201
00:32:48.030 --> 00:32:50.090
For the benefit of a left cause,
1202
00:32:50.310 --> 00:32:51.650
we have nothing to do with it,
1203
00:32:51.790 --> 00:32:53.180
and we are going to stay out of it.
1204
00:32:53.890 --> 00:32:54.260
At
1205
00:32:54.370 --> 00:32:54.920
worst,
1206
00:32:55.250 --> 00:32:59.270
what we see in these protests are that organizers who claim to be peaceful
1207
00:32:59.570 --> 00:33:03.840
will instruct their facilitators to respect the diversity of tactics,
1208
00:33:03.890 --> 00:33:07.760
which means stand down and allow them to be violent.
1209
00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:08.630
It's their
1210
00:33:08.790 --> 00:33:09.730
diverse tactic.
1211
00:33:09.850 --> 00:33:10.510
We don't see
1212
00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:12.150
any of that among conservatives.
1213
00:33:12.370 --> 00:33:12.800
I hear you.
1214
00:33:12.860 --> 00:33:16.240
I kind of want to pivot a little bit into our next clip
1215
00:33:16.360 --> 00:33:17.880
for the next your next claim.
1216
00:33:18.170 --> 00:33:22.120
It was that the Democratic Party has embraced authoritarianism.
1217
00:33:22.630 --> 00:33:22.860
Um,
1218
00:33:23.030 --> 00:33:26.020
because I also think it ties in nicely to what you are talking about.
1219
00:33:26.150 --> 00:33:27.920
You had a conversation with David.
1220
00:33:28.270 --> 00:33:29.570
Support to recognize that
1221
00:33:29.670 --> 00:33:31.900
a simply I condemn is not sufficient when
1222
00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:34.410
the Republican Party has created a permission structure
1223
00:33:34.710 --> 00:33:36.350
for individuals to go out and do violence
1224
00:33:36.590 --> 00:33:36.890
against,
1225
00:33:36.990 --> 00:33:38.380
I'm about to tell you with impunity.
1226
00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:40.400
Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a good example.
1227
00:33:40.690 --> 00:33:40.850
Trump
1228
00:33:41.110 --> 00:33:41.250
administration.
1229
00:33:41.740 --> 00:33:42.480
The Trump administration,
1230
00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:43.680
you know,
1231
00:33:43.700 --> 00:33:45.280
they lost in the courts 10,000 times,
1232
00:33:45.340 --> 00:33:45.530
right?
1233
00:33:45.780 --> 00:33:46.370
That's not true.
1234
00:33:46.540 --> 00:33:46.970
It is true.
1235
00:33:47.180 --> 00:33:48.450
Politico actually released a report on it.
1236
00:33:48.540 --> 00:33:48.570
Yeah,
1237
00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:49.570
they lost 10,000 times
1238
00:33:49.730 --> 00:33:50.510
like 10,000
1239
00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:52.320
murdered numerous American citizens,
1240
00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.450
and guess what happened to the individuals that carried out those killings?
1241
00:33:54.500 --> 00:33:55.080
What happened to them?
1242
00:33:55.140 --> 00:33:55.530
What happened to them?
1243
00:33:55.580 --> 00:33:57.050
Have they been prosecuted in any investigations,
1244
00:33:57.140 --> 00:33:57.530
do you know?
1245
00:33:57.780 --> 00:33:59.000
I believe they have not.
1246
00:33:59.540 --> 00:33:59.920
Why?
1247
00:34:00.370 --> 00:34:02.200
It's almost as if when you commit violence,
1248
00:34:02.690 --> 00:34:04.150
you're going to be protected.
1249
00:34:04.330 --> 00:34:05.080
That's what's going on.
1250
00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:06.550
That's why Christie No went out and said
1251
00:34:06.650 --> 00:34:08.040
that Alex Freddy was a domestic terrorist.
1252
00:34:08.130 --> 00:34:09.590
That's why Stephen Miller said the same thing.
1253
00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:11.800
And everybody in the entire Republican Party apparatus is
1254
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:14.219
echoing those talking points because whenever there's violence,
1255
00:34:14.429 --> 00:34:14.679
they,
1256
00:34:14.770 --> 00:34:15.489
they don't condemn it.
1257
00:34:15.510 --> 00:34:16.400
They condone it.
1258
00:34:16.530 --> 00:34:16.710
They,
1259
00:34:16.810 --> 00:34:18.679
they congratulate it and they pardon it.
1260
00:34:18.889 --> 00:34:22.080
Law enforcement duly elected by a by a population that voted in
1261
00:34:22.080 --> 00:34:24.550
plurality for ICE to go out and engage in these kill American
1262
00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:25.080
citizens,
1263
00:34:25.210 --> 00:34:25.760
which sometimes,
1264
00:34:25.810 --> 00:34:25.960
yes,
1265
00:34:26.050 --> 00:34:26.630
absolutely.
1266
00:34:26.730 --> 00:34:27.040
And oh,
1267
00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:28.920
they voted for ICE to kill American citizens,
1268
00:34:28.969 --> 00:34:29.280
really?
1269
00:34:29.489 --> 00:34:29.800
Yes.
1270
00:34:31.370 --> 00:34:31.560
Do you,
1271
00:34:31.650 --> 00:34:31.840
do you,
1272
00:34:31.929 --> 00:34:32.120
do you,
1273
00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:32.280
the,
1274
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:33.159
the average Republican,
1275
00:34:33.250 --> 00:34:35.159
I don't think they're that who said the average Republican would vote,
1276
00:34:35.250 --> 00:34:36.520
but do you not believe that there are people in
1277
00:34:36.520 --> 00:34:38.409
this country that would vote for ICE to harm people?
1278
00:34:38.929 --> 00:34:39.310
Is that your,
1279
00:34:39.449 --> 00:34:40.199
is this your argument?
1280
00:34:40.330 --> 00:34:41.810
Do you believe this is terrible.
1281
00:34:42.460 --> 00:34:45.800
So you think not a single person in this country wants to harm illegal relevance.
1282
00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:47.000
We're talking about the fact that there is
1283
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:49.679
a top-down approach by Republicans like Donald Trump.
1284
00:34:49.889 --> 00:34:50.800
Can I ask you the question again?
1285
00:34:51.090 --> 00:34:51.610
Can you answer?
1286
00:34:51.770 --> 00:34:53.150
Can you answer the question and allow it to happen,
1287
00:34:53.290 --> 00:34:54.120
foment violence.
1288
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:54.550
Can you,
1289
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:55.940
can you answer you're running cover for it.
1290
00:34:56.070 --> 00:34:56.429
Can you
1291
00:34:56.909 --> 00:34:57.170
actually,
1292
00:34:57.190 --> 00:34:57.750
you just did.
1293
00:34:57.870 --> 00:34:57.940
No,
1294
00:34:57.990 --> 00:34:58.340
I didn't.
1295
00:34:58.470 --> 00:34:58.540
See,
1296
00:34:58.590 --> 00:34:58.890
I'm,
1297
00:34:59.190 --> 00:35:00.420
I'm pointing at ICE violence.
1298
00:35:00.470 --> 00:35:02.050
You're saying that people vote for it or whatever.
1299
00:35:02.150 --> 00:35:03.630
You don't think that there are white supremacists
1300
00:35:03.630 --> 00:35:05.610
voting for ICE to go and harm migrants.
1301
00:35:05.630 --> 00:35:07.260
Are you saying that white supremacists voted for
1302
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:08.740
Donald Trump so they could kill migrants?
1303
00:35:08.790 --> 00:35:08.940
Yes,
1304
00:35:09.030 --> 00:35:09.480
I am.
1305
00:35:10.470 --> 00:35:10.620
OK,
1306
00:35:10.710 --> 00:35:12.210
good to know that white supremacists make up part of
1307
00:35:12.210 --> 00:35:14.060
the Republican Party and Donald Trump's doing their bidding.
1308
00:35:14.310 --> 00:35:14.460
Yes,
1309
00:35:14.550 --> 00:35:14.620
I,
1310
00:35:14.950 --> 00:35:15.020
I,
1311
00:35:15.110 --> 00:35:16.430
I certainly believe they do.
1312
00:35:16.560 --> 00:35:16.880
OK.
1313
00:35:17.270 --> 00:35:18.620
So here in this clip,
1314
00:35:18.790 --> 00:35:18.980
David,
1315
00:35:19.010 --> 00:35:23.330
your opponent argued that Republicans have created a permission structure
1316
00:35:23.550 --> 00:35:24.830
for political violence.
1317
00:35:25.030 --> 00:35:26.380
So what's your response?
1318
00:35:26.430 --> 00:35:27.140
I know we've been talking.
1319
00:35:27.350 --> 00:35:27.580
About this,
1320
00:35:27.630 --> 00:35:28.940
but what's your response to that?
1321
00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:31.140
And not only in this debate?
1322
00:35:31.430 --> 00:35:31.540
Well,
1323
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:32.980
it's actually the best argument.
1324
00:35:33.190 --> 00:35:33.380
The,
1325
00:35:33.510 --> 00:35:38.610
the right doesn't engage in street level vigilante or um terroristic violence.
1326
00:35:39.110 --> 00:35:40.210
They vote for it,
1327
00:35:40.470 --> 00:35:43.930
implement a system by which they can engage in the violence.
1328
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:45.030
Uh,
1329
00:35:45.410 --> 00:35:46.520
Democrats do the exact same thing,
1330
00:35:46.620 --> 00:35:46.850
which is,
1331
00:35:47.010 --> 00:35:47.160
which,
1332
00:35:47.330 --> 00:35:48.110
which is my counter.
1333
00:35:48.370 --> 00:35:48.630
And,
1334
00:35:48.730 --> 00:35:49.090
uh,
1335
00:35:49.570 --> 00:35:50.520
under Barack Obama,
1336
00:35:50.610 --> 00:35:52.330
we saw substantially more deportations.
1337
00:35:52.410 --> 00:35:53.920
There were different kinds of deportations,
1338
00:35:54.010 --> 00:35:55.070
largely at the border,
1339
00:35:55.410 --> 00:35:55.590
but,
1340
00:35:55.650 --> 00:35:55.800
uh,
1341
00:35:55.890 --> 00:35:58.470
we also saw the indefinite detention provision
1342
00:35:58.730 --> 00:36:01.190
under the National Defense Authorization Act under Barack Obama.
1343
00:36:01.410 --> 00:36:01.480
To,
1344
00:36:01.610 --> 00:36:03.150
to claim that the Republicans
1345
00:36:03.450 --> 00:36:04.320
are unique,
1346
00:36:05.290 --> 00:36:06.030
is silly.
1347
00:36:06.330 --> 00:36:07.960
But if you want to argue that the,
1348
00:36:08.050 --> 00:36:11.250
the structure by which people can vote to empower an executive,
1349
00:36:11.490 --> 00:36:13.520
who will then dispatch law enforcement
1350
00:36:14.010 --> 00:36:14.440
controlling the.
1351
00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:16.830
Having a monopoly on violence and harming people,
1352
00:36:17.100 --> 00:36:20.400
I think we all agree we have concerns about an unaccountable police force.
1353
00:36:20.780 --> 00:36:20.980
I have,
1354
00:36:21.060 --> 00:36:22.010
I have a few counters.
1355
00:36:22.180 --> 00:36:23.840
I think that when I pointed out
1356
00:36:24.220 --> 00:36:26.600
there are white supremacists in this country,
1357
00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:27.970
ultranationalists,
1358
00:36:28.020 --> 00:36:28.650
and even,
1359
00:36:28.940 --> 00:36:29.090
you know,
1360
00:36:29.180 --> 00:36:32.190
non-white individuals that do want
1361
00:36:32.380 --> 00:36:33.810
ICE to kill migrants.
1362
00:36:34.690 --> 00:36:35.310
The way
1363
00:36:35.610 --> 00:36:36.750
this man acted,
1364
00:36:36.970 --> 00:36:38.800
he immediately said it's not true,
1365
00:36:38.890 --> 00:36:40.080
and people around me laughed,
1366
00:36:40.250 --> 00:36:41.520
and my only thought is,
1367
00:36:42.410 --> 00:36:43.720
No matter what I say,
1368
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.390
they will claim the inverse,
1369
00:36:45.850 --> 00:36:49.320
because even when I say something they should completely agree with,
1370
00:36:49.450 --> 00:36:51.370
they act like I'm wrong.
1371
00:36:51.890 --> 00:36:53.630
There are people in this country that have gone
1372
00:36:53.650 --> 00:36:56.270
on social media and they do every single day
1373
00:36:56.530 --> 00:36:57.880
saying they want
1374
00:36:58.390 --> 00:36:59.820
machine guns on the border.
1375
00:37:00.050 --> 00:37:00.690
They want
1376
00:37:00.810 --> 00:37:02.310
ICE to mow people down.
1377
00:37:02.450 --> 00:37:04.510
You see that they're voting for Trump.
1378
00:37:04.650 --> 00:37:05.440
Now that being said,
1379
00:37:06.230 --> 00:37:07.330
There's a distinction between
1380
00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:11.980
Whether those people are just going to talk big online and have horrifying views
1381
00:37:12.090 --> 00:37:15.410
and whether or not we'll actually see that implemented in terms of law enforcement.
1382
00:37:15.770 --> 00:37:16.540
I just think you,
1383
00:37:16.610 --> 00:37:18.870
you have a serious challenge in a few capacities.
1384
00:37:19.290 --> 00:37:19.840
Alex Peretti,
1385
00:37:19.930 --> 00:37:20.320
for instance,
1386
00:37:20.450 --> 00:37:21.230
was armed
1387
00:37:21.530 --> 00:37:22.060
and,
1388
00:37:22.090 --> 00:37:22.320
uh,
1389
00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:24.920
had shown up to confront federal law enforcement.
1390
00:37:25.010 --> 00:37:26.350
This is not a protest.
1391
00:37:26.730 --> 00:37:29.720
This is a federal law enforcement enforcement operation.
1392
00:37:29.890 --> 00:37:32.020
You run very serious risks
1393
00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:33.830
because we are not talking about,
1394
00:37:34.170 --> 00:37:34.280
say,
1395
00:37:34.330 --> 00:37:36.320
a police line outside of a building.
1396
00:37:36.910 --> 00:37:39.230
Which is community response or riot control.
1397
00:37:39.590 --> 00:37:41.090
We are talking about an individual who said,
1398
00:37:41.150 --> 00:37:43.480
I am going to obstruct federal law enforcement
1399
00:37:43.830 --> 00:37:46.030
actively pursuing lethal threats.
1400
00:37:46.430 --> 00:37:48.340
This does not justify anything the cops did.
1401
00:37:48.390 --> 00:37:51.210
I think the police in that regard made terrible mistakes.
1402
00:37:51.590 --> 00:37:52.140
However,
1403
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.360
This is a guy who showed up armed to confront federal law enforcement,
1404
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.820
which resulted in a tragedy.
1405
00:37:57.200 --> 00:38:00.140
I'm shocked that you would find progressives advocating
1406
00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:02.830
for the right to carry a concealed weapon
1407
00:38:03.270 --> 00:38:04.670
to confront federal law enforcement.
1408
00:38:04.720 --> 00:38:06.620
I'd imagine the progressive argument would be,
1409
00:38:07.160 --> 00:38:08.910
we should have gun controls and permits,
1410
00:38:08.930 --> 00:38:10.200
and you shouldn't be able to conceal your
1411
00:38:10.200 --> 00:38:11.390
weapons like this or something to that effect,
1412
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:11.780
but
1413
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:13.820
I certainly understand there are many on the left that
1414
00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:15.060
do agree
1415
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:15.390
with,
1416
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:15.590
uh,
1417
00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:15.830
you know,
1418
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:16.590
having guns.
1419
00:38:17.090 --> 00:38:17.990
And I also think
1420
00:38:18.160 --> 00:38:21.710
you can't simultaneously argue for democracy
1421
00:38:21.890 --> 00:38:25.150
and then condemn the result of your democracy.
1422
00:38:25.530 --> 00:38:29.400
Donald Trump won the second biggest issue according to Gallup
1423
00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:32.410
throughout the 24 cycle was illegal immigration.
1424
00:38:32.850 --> 00:38:35.760
This helped Trump secure the plurality and win,
1425
00:38:35.970 --> 00:38:38.030
and he didn't just win the presidency,
1426
00:38:38.250 --> 00:38:40.380
but the Senate and the House.
1427
00:38:40.530 --> 00:38:41.630
The Republicans took.
1428
00:38:41.950 --> 00:38:42.940
Everything
1429
00:38:43.270 --> 00:38:46.140
and the second biggest issue was immigration.
1430
00:38:46.630 --> 00:38:49.860
So if you believe in democracy and the right of the people to vote,
1431
00:38:50.070 --> 00:38:51.340
and when they do,
1432
00:38:51.630 --> 00:38:54.330
they say please enforce the law against
1433
00:38:54.710 --> 00:38:56.670
people who have come to this country illegally,
1434
00:38:56.910 --> 00:38:58.620
you can't come out after the fact and say,
1435
00:38:58.860 --> 00:38:58.980
well,
1436
00:38:59.030 --> 00:39:01.310
you've done it wrong and you've created a permission structure
1437
00:39:01.580 --> 00:39:04.780
because unfortunately that permission structure is part of your democracy.
1438
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:05.550
All right,
1439
00:39:05.640 --> 00:39:09.070
but do you think that political leaders have any responsibility,
1440
00:39:09.540 --> 00:39:10.660
especially when
1441
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:13.220
extremists interpret their messaging as
1442
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:14.420
we're gonna get them,
1443
00:39:14.600 --> 00:39:17.420
these illegal immigrants are the worst of the worst,
1444
00:39:17.560 --> 00:39:18.630
they're criminals,
1445
00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:22.340
and so they're taking that messaging and they're committing acts of violence
1446
00:39:22.520 --> 00:39:23.090
and then
1447
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:24.150
I want,
1448
00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:25.700
I want to say that it's on a
1449
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:26.740
bigger scale,
1450
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:27.840
but there are small.
1451
00:39:28.160 --> 00:39:29.490
instances where people are saying
1452
00:39:29.740 --> 00:39:32.000
he looks like he's an illegal immigrant and
1453
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.810
they're harassing people and there's even many fights.
1454
00:39:34.900 --> 00:39:34.970
Now,
1455
00:39:35.020 --> 00:39:35.750
this is not on a,
1456
00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:37.290
this is not a huge issue,
1457
00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:39.250
but if none of that is getting denounced,
1458
00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:42.730
maybe Trump is not seeing these side little issues happening,
1459
00:39:43.020 --> 00:39:44.810
but if he is and he's aware
1460
00:39:44.930 --> 00:39:46.200
that his messaging is that
1461
00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:49.170
these illegal immigrants are the problem,
1462
00:39:49.300 --> 00:39:49.970
they are dangerous,
1463
00:39:50.060 --> 00:39:50.410
we need
1464
00:39:50.600 --> 00:39:52.640
out by any means necessary.
1465
00:39:52.810 --> 00:39:54.620
Do you feel like that he has
1466
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:58.540
any responsibility to condemn people who are taking it upon themselves
1467
00:39:58.760 --> 00:39:59.030
to say,
1468
00:39:59.100 --> 00:39:59.270
hey,
1469
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:00.740
I think that person's illegal
1470
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:02.370
and attack them or harass them?
1471
00:40:02.560 --> 00:40:02.740
I,
1472
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:05.860
I don't think we've seen any substantial incidents
1473
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:09.710
where a private individual has confronted a man wrongly,
1474
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:11.300
accusing him of being an illegal immigrant.
1475
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:11.550
I,
1476
00:40:11.650 --> 00:40:13.260
I do agree it does happen.
1477
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:15.620
There have been a few videos where there's a,
1478
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:15.950
you know,
1479
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.470
you'll see like a guy yelling racial slurs or something.
1480
00:40:18.870 --> 00:40:19.160
And,
1481
00:40:19.190 --> 00:40:19.320
you know,
1482
00:40:19.390 --> 00:40:20.450
at another guy or,
1483
00:40:20.550 --> 00:40:20.900
you know,
1484
00:40:21.230 --> 00:40:23.960
migration-based slurs at an individual.
1485
00:40:24.350 --> 00:40:26.100
But we have not had an instance,
1486
00:40:26.230 --> 00:40:26.270
uh,
1487
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:26.410
uh,
1488
00:40:26.830 --> 00:40:28.010
the example that I use would be,
1489
00:40:28.080 --> 00:40:28.140
uh,
1490
00:40:28.270 --> 00:40:29.260
Aaron Danielson's,
1491
00:40:29.290 --> 00:40:29.300
uh,
1492
00:40:29.430 --> 00:40:29.840
murder,
1493
00:40:30.230 --> 00:40:33.940
in which a man named Michael Reinold with a Black Lives Matter tattoo on his neck,
1494
00:40:34.230 --> 00:40:36.100
walked up to a Trump supporter who was minding
1495
00:40:36.100 --> 00:40:38.330
his own business and shot him twice in the chest
1496
00:40:38.470 --> 00:40:40.660
for no reason other than he was a Trump supporter.
1497
00:40:40.870 --> 00:40:43.050
So I absolutely believe
1498
00:40:43.630 --> 00:40:45.420
political leaders must condemn.
1499
00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:49.140
Immediately individuals who act in accordance
1500
00:40:49.140 --> 00:40:51.170
with their ideology to violent ends.
1501
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.030
And do you think the right has been condemning individuals like that?
1502
00:40:55.200 --> 00:40:56.240
It hasn't happened.
1503
00:40:56.520 --> 00:40:57.290
Maybe I'm wrong.
1504
00:40:57.560 --> 00:40:59.870
I read hundreds if not thousands of articles,
1505
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:00.110
uh,
1506
00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:01.350
I read hundreds of articles a day,
1507
00:41:01.450 --> 00:41:02.640
maybe thousands per week,
1508
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:04.830
and there have not been any
1509
00:41:04.950 --> 00:41:06.350
notable instances
1510
00:41:06.520 --> 00:41:09.420
where a private right-wing individual has engaged
1511
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.300
in lethal force against a person wrongly
1512
00:41:12.520 --> 00:41:13.020
for being,
1513
00:41:13.120 --> 00:41:13.190
uh,
1514
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:13.860
uh,
1515
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:14.020
uh,
1516
00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:15.110
perceived as an illegal immigrant.
1517
00:41:15.160 --> 00:41:16.660
It just doesn't happen.
1518
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:17.260
And
1519
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:19.220
I think it's very easy to just say,
1520
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:20.320
it shouldn't happen,
1521
00:41:20.720 --> 00:41:21.540
nobody should do it.
1522
00:41:21.850 --> 00:41:23.520
And any right-leaning individual,
1523
00:41:23.770 --> 00:41:24.200
nationalist,
1524
00:41:24.370 --> 00:41:25.120
American conservative,
1525
00:41:25.170 --> 00:41:25.630
libertarian,
1526
00:41:25.650 --> 00:41:26.370
or otherwise,
1527
00:41:26.690 --> 00:41:28.680
who believes for a second they should engage
1528
00:41:28.680 --> 00:41:29.760
in violence against someone they think is,
1529
00:41:29.810 --> 00:41:30.640
is an illegal immigrant,
1530
00:41:30.810 --> 00:41:32.590
they would be wrong for doing that.
1531
00:41:33.210 --> 00:41:34.310
But it's just not happening.
1532
00:41:34.450 --> 00:41:34.640
And,
1533
00:41:34.730 --> 00:41:35.360
and that being said,
1534
00:41:35.450 --> 00:41:39.120
the amount of assassinations we see from progressives is also very small as well.
1535
00:41:39.430 --> 00:41:42.820
We have a couple individuals politically targeted just in the past couple of years.
1536
00:41:42.870 --> 00:41:44.130
I mean they've tried to kill Trump,
1537
00:41:44.430 --> 00:41:49.180
but it's not like we are seeing people go out every day and murder individuals,
1538
00:41:49.790 --> 00:41:49.980
you know,
1539
00:41:50.030 --> 00:41:52.890
on strong pronounced national level issues.
1540
00:41:53.310 --> 00:41:54.100
So I would just say,
1541
00:41:54.890 --> 00:41:58.120
We get massive riots from left aligned progressives,
1542
00:41:58.290 --> 00:41:58.440
uh,
1543
00:41:58.490 --> 00:41:58.680
uh,
1544
00:41:58.770 --> 00:41:58.960
you know,
1545
00:41:59.130 --> 00:41:59.200
uh,
1546
00:41:59.290 --> 00:42:00.080
liberals.
1547
00:42:00.330 --> 00:42:01.030
We see this
1548
00:42:01.370 --> 00:42:02.390
all the time,
1549
00:42:02.730 --> 00:42:03.910
and on the right we don't.
1550
00:42:04.170 --> 00:42:04.280
Uh,
1551
00:42:04.370 --> 00:42:05.190
we don't see,
1552
00:42:05.410 --> 00:42:05.800
uh,
1553
00:42:06.240 --> 00:42:08.030
Dave Rubin leading marches,
1554
00:42:08.190 --> 00:42:08.360
no,
1555
00:42:08.490 --> 00:42:08.720
he,
1556
00:42:09.250 --> 00:42:09.880
we don't see,
1557
00:42:10.050 --> 00:42:10.210
uh,
1558
00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:10.600
uh,
1559
00:42:10.810 --> 00:42:10.960
you know,
1560
00:42:11.050 --> 00:42:11.970
Steven Crowder
1561
00:42:12.210 --> 00:42:15.240
organizing big rallies where people firebomb buildings or,
1562
00:42:15.310 --> 00:42:16.790
or vandalize cars.
1563
00:42:17.010 --> 00:42:18.700
But we see this from the left
1564
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:19.370
regularly.
1565
00:42:19.410 --> 00:42:20.360
We call it riot season.
1566
00:42:20.410 --> 00:42:22.510
I've covered riot season for 15 years.
1567
00:42:22.650 --> 00:42:24.600
Every single year there's a riot season.
1568
00:42:25.040 --> 00:42:27.740
Some kind of left aligned violent group goes out,
1569
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.710
and I've been documenting it for 15+ years.
1570
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.100
So I'd appreciate it
1571
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:32.700
if,
1572
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:33.070
uh,
1573
00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:34.630
anybody who engaged in these,
1574
00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:35.070
in these,
1575
00:42:35.110 --> 00:42:35.380
these,
1576
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:35.460
uh,
1577
00:42:35.510 --> 00:42:35.630
uh,
1578
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:37.670
these tactics would be condemned.
1579
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:39.180
But what I would argue is,
1580
00:42:39.520 --> 00:42:41.370
back to the point being made by this individual,
1581
00:42:41.680 --> 00:42:44.710
the best argument is that the right uses
1582
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.260
what would be described as legitimate democratic authority
1583
00:42:48.600 --> 00:42:51.270
to empower law enforcement to engage in violence.
1584
00:42:51.910 --> 00:42:52.420
That being said,
1585
00:42:52.470 --> 00:42:54.540
the Democrats do the same too,
1586
00:42:54.630 --> 00:42:56.060
so we can condemn all of it,
1587
00:42:56.190 --> 00:42:58.040
but you can't just pick and choose which party
1588
00:42:58.230 --> 00:42:58.970
at the time.
1589
00:42:59.630 --> 00:42:59.780
Well,
1590
00:42:59.950 --> 00:43:01.970
you also mentioned how Trump has,
1591
00:43:02.390 --> 00:43:02.510
you know,
1592
00:43:02.630 --> 00:43:04.260
white supremacists and ultra
1593
00:43:04.470 --> 00:43:05.790
white supremacists
1594
00:43:05.950 --> 00:43:09.090
backing him and supporting him and identifying with
1595
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:10.530
his movement or the MAGA,
1596
00:43:10.630 --> 00:43:11.460
the MAGA movement.
1597
00:43:11.830 --> 00:43:14.260
So even if they're a small minority,
1598
00:43:14.700 --> 00:43:16.240
do you feel that Trump
1599
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:19.920
or Republicans have a responsibility to,
1600
00:43:20.110 --> 00:43:20.300
you know,
1601
00:43:20.430 --> 00:43:22.370
denounce these extremist groups that
1602
00:43:22.490 --> 00:43:23.530
identify with it?
1603
00:43:23.550 --> 00:43:25.210
And if they since they haven't,
1604
00:43:25.550 --> 00:43:27.740
is that encouraging these?
1605
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:29.030
I haven't,
1606
00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:29.910
from what I know,
1607
00:43:29.970 --> 00:43:32.180
I haven't heard Trump denounce
1608
00:43:33.080 --> 00:43:37.080
the KKK or these Christian white nationalist groups or the Proud Boys.
1609
00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:39.430
And you do a simple YouTube search of the
1610
00:43:39.430 --> 00:43:42.140
compilation of Trump denouncing white supremacy because I believe
1611
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:44.470
there's like an 1 hour and 40 minute
1612
00:43:44.470 --> 00:43:47.340
compilation showing Trump repeatedly denouncing white supremacy,
1613
00:43:47.560 --> 00:43:48.460
white nationalists.
1614
00:43:48.600 --> 00:43:49.790
Perhaps my favorite quote of all.
1615
00:43:50.010 --> 00:43:50.790
Time is,
1616
00:43:51.090 --> 00:43:53.130
there are very fine people on both sides,
1617
00:43:53.170 --> 00:43:55.240
and I am not talking about the neo-Nazis and
1618
00:43:55.240 --> 00:43:58.080
the white nationalists because they should be condemned totally,
1619
00:43:58.290 --> 00:43:59.920
which is a direct quote from Donald Trump,
1620
00:43:59.970 --> 00:44:01.860
I believe it was 2017
1621
00:44:02.050 --> 00:44:02.850
when he said that.
1622
00:44:03.170 --> 00:44:05.270
So I want to look into this last clip,
1623
00:44:05.450 --> 00:44:07.420
and it's an interaction that you had earlier
1624
00:44:07.740 --> 00:44:10.240
about fascism and is Trump a fascist,
1625
00:44:10.290 --> 00:44:11.600
so I want to play that back.
1626
00:44:11.930 --> 00:44:13.320
I think we should just get to the heart of it.
1627
00:44:13.830 --> 00:44:15.050
Donald Trump is a fascist.
1628
00:44:15.230 --> 00:44:17.610
He has Nazis in his administration.
1629
00:44:17.870 --> 00:44:19.290
His entire messaging
1630
00:44:19.470 --> 00:44:22.220
was resonating with Nazis from the very beginning.
1631
00:44:22.770 --> 00:44:23.430
Donald Trump,
1632
00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:25.940
when rallying for 2024,
1633
00:44:26.230 --> 00:44:28.580
had a massive rally in Madison Square Garden.
1634
00:44:28.670 --> 00:44:30.140
What was the significance of that rally?
1635
00:44:31.120 --> 00:44:31.660
You tell me,
1636
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:32.070
yeah,
1637
00:44:32.200 --> 00:44:33.070
it's the same place,
1638
00:44:33.330 --> 00:44:35.120
same date as the Nazis
1639
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:36.470
in the 1940s.
1640
00:44:36.970 --> 00:44:37.630
Literally,
1641
00:44:37.930 --> 00:44:38.590
um,
1642
00:44:39.250 --> 00:44:40.450
Donald Trump said that,
1643
00:44:40.550 --> 00:44:40.880
uh,
1644
00:44:41.160 --> 00:44:43.320
immigrants are poisoning the blood of America.
1645
00:44:44.180 --> 00:44:45.410
And their varmint.
1646
00:44:45.750 --> 00:44:46.760
Who also said that?
1647
00:44:47.020 --> 00:44:47.560
You tell me.
1648
00:44:47.850 --> 00:44:48.250
Hitler.
1649
00:44:49.080 --> 00:44:49.680
Literally
1650
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:51.980
Donald Trump has openly
1651
00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:54.140
said things as dog whistles,
1652
00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:56.150
so you may say that it's not mainstream,
1653
00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:58.550
but the entire ideology of the right
1654
00:44:59.010 --> 00:44:59.860
speaks to those people.
1655
00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:00.340
Let me ask you,
1656
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:00.470
what,
1657
00:45:00.680 --> 00:45:01.890
what do you mean by fascist,
1658
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:02.430
uh,
1659
00:45:02.630 --> 00:45:03.030
far right,
1660
00:45:03.120 --> 00:45:03.830
authoritarian,
1661
00:45:04.040 --> 00:45:05.030
ultra nationalistic.
1662
00:45:05.750 --> 00:45:06.880
14 sins of fascism,
1663
00:45:07.120 --> 00:45:07.200
all that,
1664
00:45:07.290 --> 00:45:08.800
but there's a specific definition of fascist.
1665
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:10.160
Do you just mean that
1666
00:45:10.410 --> 00:45:11.550
he's he's an authoritarian?
1667
00:45:11.930 --> 00:45:12.160
No,
1668
00:45:12.330 --> 00:45:14.400
I mean that he meets all 14 tenets of fascism.
1669
00:45:14.610 --> 00:45:17.280
So when Santana called Trump a fascist,
1670
00:45:17.370 --> 00:45:19.220
you immediately asked him to
1671
00:45:19.450 --> 00:45:20.580
define the word.
1672
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:25.110
Were you trying to clarify his argument or did you find this label to be unfair?
1673
00:45:25.250 --> 00:45:25.320
Oh,
1674
00:45:25.390 --> 00:45:25.480
no,
1675
00:45:25.570 --> 00:45:25.680
no,
1676
00:45:25.770 --> 00:45:26.720
I clarify,
1677
00:45:27.130 --> 00:45:31.430
and the reason why is because there's like 3 colloquial definitions of fascist,
1678
00:45:31.730 --> 00:45:34.800
and I don't want to improperly argue what he may not be arguing.
1679
00:45:35.210 --> 00:45:38.300
So there's one very prominent argument that fascism
1680
00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:40.570
is the lucrative merger of corporation and state.
1681
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:42.150
If that's the argument,
1682
00:45:42.200 --> 00:45:44.390
you're referring to crony capitalist structures,
1683
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:47.580
which sometimes progressives do because they're anti-capitalist.
1684
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:50.390
But it seems like he was arguing something different.
1685
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:53.250
I did not quite grasp which position
1686
00:45:53.560 --> 00:45:55.100
he was actually taking on,
1687
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:55.550
uh,
1688
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:56.990
what it means to be a fascist.
1689
00:45:57.240 --> 00:45:57.470
One,
1690
00:45:57.920 --> 00:45:58.780
argument is,
1691
00:45:59.280 --> 00:45:59.430
uh,
1692
00:45:59.630 --> 00:45:59.900
natio,
1693
00:46:00.080 --> 00:46:00.210
you know,
1694
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:01.750
ultra-nationalist doesn't really mean anything.
1695
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:02.950
You're either a nationalist or you're not,
1696
00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:03.110
it's,
1697
00:46:03.200 --> 00:46:04.120
it's rather binary.
1698
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:04.820
So,
1699
00:46:05.040 --> 00:46:05.710
it would be,
1700
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:06.380
uh,
1701
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:10.190
traditionalist nationalist is one definition that people use for,
1702
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:11.070
for fascism.
1703
00:46:11.810 --> 00:46:12.080
So I'm,
1704
00:46:12.170 --> 00:46:12.550
I'm,
1705
00:46:12.740 --> 00:46:14.810
I think that might be what he's,
1706
00:46:14.930 --> 00:46:16.110
he was trying to accuse
1707
00:46:16.250 --> 00:46:16.950
Donald Trump of.
1708
00:46:17.290 --> 00:46:18.320
I just think for the most part,
1709
00:46:18.450 --> 00:46:19.950
people say fascist to mean,
1710
00:46:20.210 --> 00:46:20.440
you know,
1711
00:46:20.740 --> 00:46:21.590
bad guy,
1712
00:46:21.870 --> 00:46:22.840
authoritarian.
1713
00:46:22.970 --> 00:46:23.080
I,
1714
00:46:23.170 --> 00:46:24.220
I would also add,
1715
00:46:24.370 --> 00:46:24.560
uh,
1716
00:46:24.810 --> 00:46:27.380
Trump did not say that immigrants are poison in the blood of America.
1717
00:46:27.490 --> 00:46:27.680
I mean,
1718
00:46:27.730 --> 00:46:28.750
these things are fabricated.
1719
00:46:28.850 --> 00:46:29.910
He did mention
1720
00:46:30.050 --> 00:46:30.760
criminal cartels,
1721
00:46:30.810 --> 00:46:31.480
gang members,
1722
00:46:31.650 --> 00:46:31.730
you know,
1723
00:46:31.810 --> 00:46:33.320
rapists are poison in the blood.
1724
00:46:33.730 --> 00:46:35.440
I think if you misinterpret his intention,
1725
00:46:35.530 --> 00:46:36.620
you could try and liken him to be,
1726
00:46:36.730 --> 00:46:36.830
to,
1727
00:46:36.890 --> 00:46:37.530
to be like Hitler.
1728
00:46:37.770 --> 00:46:41.000
I also think it's silly to claim that because he had a rally at Madison Square Garden
1729
00:46:41.210 --> 00:46:42.390
on a particular date,
1730
00:46:42.570 --> 00:46:44.280
it was significant because the Nazis did as well.
1731
00:46:44.370 --> 00:46:44.710
I,
1732
00:46:44.890 --> 00:46:45.610
I'm not gonna
1733
00:46:45.850 --> 00:46:46.270
claim
1734
00:46:46.410 --> 00:46:49.920
Tony Hinchcliffe is a Nazi for having a show at Madison Square Garden.
1735
00:46:49.970 --> 00:46:50.790
I think that's,
1736
00:46:51.090 --> 00:46:51.990
that's a silly,
1737
00:46:52.130 --> 00:46:52.330
uh,
1738
00:46:52.610 --> 00:46:53.160
comparison.
1739
00:46:53.870 --> 00:46:54.020
Well,
1740
00:46:54.310 --> 00:46:57.610
what definition of fascism do you use and
1741
00:46:57.910 --> 00:47:00.900
which parts of Trump's record do you feel clearly
1742
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:03.690
fits that definition or clearly does not fit it?
1743
00:47:04.120 --> 00:47:04.230
Yeah,
1744
00:47:04.390 --> 00:47:04.500
I,
1745
00:47:04.590 --> 00:47:05.660
I don't think it does.
1746
00:47:05.790 --> 00:47:06.210
I think,
1747
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:06.850
um,
1748
00:47:07.270 --> 00:47:11.750
I think the way most people try to use fascist is just going to be flat authoritarian,
1749
00:47:11.810 --> 00:47:12.210
which
1750
00:47:12.430 --> 00:47:13.530
just doesn't really mean much.
1751
00:47:13.870 --> 00:47:15.380
But I think when you go to the next level,
1752
00:47:15.630 --> 00:47:16.820
the next layer of the definition,
1753
00:47:17.030 --> 00:47:19.430
it's a reference to traditionalist nationalism.
1754
00:47:19.950 --> 00:47:21.260
So if you take a look at the fascists,
1755
00:47:21.310 --> 00:47:22.700
which was Italy largely,
1756
00:47:23.020 --> 00:47:24.770
They wanted strong national identity,
1757
00:47:25.060 --> 00:47:27.000
they wanted a strong ethnic identity,
1758
00:47:27.220 --> 00:47:30.610
and it was based on a traditionalist worldview,
1759
00:47:30.740 --> 00:47:31.170
so
1760
00:47:31.460 --> 00:47:34.010
aligning with more conservative values than progressive.
1761
00:47:34.330 --> 00:47:37.360
Typically what we saw with the communists would be,
1762
00:47:37.610 --> 00:47:41.530
I would describe as uh authoritarian globalist progressivism.
1763
00:47:42.090 --> 00:47:44.540
People like to claim that communism on a surface,
1764
00:47:44.570 --> 00:47:44.840
they'll say,
1765
00:47:44.890 --> 00:47:44.960
oh,
1766
00:47:45.010 --> 00:47:45.320
it's uh,
1767
00:47:45.410 --> 00:47:45.720
it's,
1768
00:47:45.810 --> 00:47:47.320
they want everything owned by the people,
1769
00:47:47.590 --> 00:47:48.670
that's not actually
1770
00:47:48.970 --> 00:47:49.990
how it's used,
1771
00:47:50.130 --> 00:47:50.240
uh,
1772
00:47:50.330 --> 00:47:50.680
uh,
1773
00:47:51.050 --> 00:47:52.900
colloquially by people who are making the argument.
1774
00:47:53.290 --> 00:47:54.720
So if you're trying to understand what
1775
00:47:54.720 --> 00:47:56.590
someone is saying when they're saying fascist,
1776
00:47:56.780 --> 00:47:56.880
right,
1777
00:47:56.970 --> 00:47:58.030
they're saying they want,
1778
00:47:58.410 --> 00:47:58.560
you know,
1779
00:47:58.650 --> 00:48:00.160
marriage to be between a man and a woman.
1780
00:48:00.720 --> 00:48:01.020
They're,
1781
00:48:01.120 --> 00:48:03.450
they don't like LGBTQIA.
1782
00:48:03.720 --> 00:48:04.950
They want secure borders,
1783
00:48:05.080 --> 00:48:06.580
a strong national identity,
1784
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:09.290
and if you take that to its extreme,
1785
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:12.020
You can accuse someone of being a fascist if they
1786
00:48:13.120 --> 00:48:13.950
polidify this,
1787
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:15.750
if they turn it into a party
1788
00:48:16.040 --> 00:48:19.780
by which corporations adhere to the party's message with single party control.
1789
00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:21.590
We don't really have that with Donald Trump,
1790
00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:21.940
and,
1791
00:48:22.040 --> 00:48:22.230
uh,
1792
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:24.840
Donald Trump actually is very pro H-1B,
1793
00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:28.300
much to the chagrin of the conservative base and Trump's own supporters.
1794
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:30.550
He's been a big fan of,
1795
00:48:30.680 --> 00:48:30.980
you know,
1796
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:31.550
he,
1797
00:48:31.600 --> 00:48:31.670
he,
1798
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:34.160
he's the one who ignited Operation Warp Speed for vaccination.
1799
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:35.870
His supporters aren't big fans of that.
1800
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:37.380
So I think when you look at,
1801
00:48:37.720 --> 00:48:37.870
uh,
1802
00:48:38.120 --> 00:48:38.920
Trump supporters,
1803
00:48:39.560 --> 00:48:40.070
I can actually,
1804
00:48:40.200 --> 00:48:42.000
I'll just throw it to Vox.com,
1805
00:48:42.200 --> 00:48:46.240
who wrote in 2016 that Donald Trump was the moderate candidate at the time.
1806
00:48:46.600 --> 00:48:47.020
And,
1807
00:48:47.040 --> 00:48:47.190
uh,
1808
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:50.660
he's often compared to Bill Clinton's policies of the 1990s.
1809
00:48:51.040 --> 00:48:51.310
In fact,
1810
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:54.150
much of what Trump says about border security and illegal immigration
1811
00:48:54.440 --> 00:48:55.180
is just,
1812
00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:56.190
to be honest,
1813
00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:58.290
a rip off from Barack Obama and,
1814
00:48:58.400 --> 00:48:58.590
you know,
1815
00:48:58.720 --> 00:49:00.260
Hillary and Bill Clinton going back.
1816
00:49:00.640 --> 00:49:02.190
What changed in the Democratic Party,
1817
00:49:02.240 --> 00:49:03.120
where their rhetoric shifted,
1818
00:49:03.170 --> 00:49:04.380
I'm not entirely sure.
1819
00:49:04.720 --> 00:49:09.070
But a lot of what Trump says is just 90s and 2000s Democratic Party rhetoric.
1820
00:49:09.410 --> 00:49:09.720
So I,
1821
00:49:09.810 --> 00:49:11.870
I don't think I would take that and claim he's a fascist,
1822
00:49:12.010 --> 00:49:12.800
because if you did,
1823
00:49:13.050 --> 00:49:15.120
you'd have to argue that Bill Clinton was too.
1824
00:49:15.520 --> 00:49:16.430
I don't think that's true.
1825
00:49:16.730 --> 00:49:16.920
OK,
1826
00:49:17.050 --> 00:49:19.120
so you said that you don't remember this
1827
00:49:19.120 --> 00:49:22.270
quote of Trump saying that immigrants are poisoning,
1828
00:49:22.570 --> 00:49:22.800
you know,
1829
00:49:22.890 --> 00:49:23.650
the blood
1830
00:49:23.850 --> 00:49:24.840
of America.
1831
00:49:25.870 --> 00:49:27.090
But even if you
1832
00:49:27.750 --> 00:49:28.940
don't think that happened,
1833
00:49:29.070 --> 00:49:30.700
do you feel like his rhetoric,
1834
00:49:30.790 --> 00:49:35.670
even saying and speaking really broadly that immigrants are the violent ones,
1835
00:49:35.790 --> 00:49:37.330
they're the ones committing crimes,
1836
00:49:37.510 --> 00:49:40.740
do you feel like that rhetoric is dangerous and dehumanizing?
1837
00:49:41.070 --> 00:49:41.300
You see,
1838
00:49:41.350 --> 00:49:41.620
this is,
1839
00:49:41.710 --> 00:49:43.100
this is the problem is that,
1840
00:49:43.190 --> 00:49:43.540
uh,
1841
00:49:43.870 --> 00:49:44.140
you know,
1842
00:49:44.470 --> 00:49:48.140
specifically Donald Trump referred to MS-13 as animals.
1843
00:49:48.670 --> 00:49:51.770
What we ended up getting from a variety of large corporate news outlets
1844
00:49:51.950 --> 00:49:53.980
was that instead of quoting him,
1845
00:49:54.190 --> 00:49:57.090
they paraphrased that Trump called immigrants animals.
1846
00:49:57.350 --> 00:49:58.020
This is where this,
1847
00:49:58.100 --> 00:49:59.250
this rhetoric emerges.
1848
00:49:59.590 --> 00:50:00.840
If you go to Donald Trump,
1849
00:50:01.310 --> 00:50:02.880
you walk up to him and look him in the face
1850
00:50:02.990 --> 00:50:03.340
and say,
1851
00:50:03.450 --> 00:50:05.340
how do you feel about immigrants to this country,
1852
00:50:05.390 --> 00:50:06.100
he'll say they're great,
1853
00:50:06.190 --> 00:50:07.340
we love our immigrants,
1854
00:50:07.510 --> 00:50:08.260
we want to bring in more,
1855
00:50:08.310 --> 00:50:09.140
but they got to come legally.
1856
00:50:09.230 --> 00:50:09.660
In fact,
1857
00:50:09.860 --> 00:50:11.070
that's a quote from Trump.
1858
00:50:11.510 --> 00:50:12.970
He said at almost all of his rallies.
1859
00:50:13.240 --> 00:50:15.110
What ends up happening is Trump will say,
1860
00:50:15.340 --> 00:50:17.900
you've got rapists and cartel members and coyotes.
1861
00:50:17.950 --> 00:50:19.520
These criminals can't be allowed in this country.
1862
00:50:19.590 --> 00:50:21.820
They're animals and they're poisoning the blood of this nation.
1863
00:50:22.670 --> 00:50:24.730
And I don't think any reasonable person
1864
00:50:24.890 --> 00:50:26.650
would disagree that a
1865
00:50:26.950 --> 00:50:29.180
child sex trafficking cartel member
1866
00:50:29.350 --> 00:50:30.990
is poisoning this country
1867
00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:32.060
and they should be arrested.
1868
00:50:32.470 --> 00:50:34.220
It's a problem then when people for
1869
00:50:34.220 --> 00:50:36.530
political reasons misrepresent what Trump said.
1870
00:50:36.830 --> 00:50:38.660
The best example possible I believe was,
1871
00:50:38.750 --> 00:50:41.800
would be what's now known as the very fine people hoax.
1872
00:50:42.430 --> 00:50:43.420
It is remarkable.
1873
00:50:43.550 --> 00:50:46.260
I had on a liberal journalist from Brooklyn.
1874
00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:47.150
Uh,
1875
00:50:47.240 --> 00:50:48.580
I believe this was last year,
1876
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:49.700
who still,
1877
00:50:49.720 --> 00:50:51.460
after 10 years,
1878
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:57.350
did not know that Trump condemned neo-Nazis and white nationalists back in 2017.
1879
00:50:57.910 --> 00:50:58.820
Because what happened was,
1880
00:50:59.080 --> 00:51:01.430
when Trump said there are very fine people on both sides,
1881
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:04.190
and I am not talking about the Nazis and the white nationalists,
1882
00:51:04.430 --> 00:51:05.910
because they should be condemned totally,
1883
00:51:06.240 --> 00:51:09.460
media outlets cut the back portion of his quote off
1884
00:51:09.640 --> 00:51:11.670
and ran a fake version
1885
00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:13.620
to manipulate people into thinking
1886
00:51:13.830 --> 00:51:16.430
that he was suggesting white supremacists were somehow good.
1887
00:51:17.010 --> 00:51:17.160
You know,
1888
00:51:17.210 --> 00:51:17.240
I,
1889
00:51:17.370 --> 00:51:18.920
I would argue with many of these progressives,
1890
00:51:18.970 --> 00:51:21.240
and the reason why I think it's important to come and sit down in these,
1891
00:51:21.330 --> 00:51:22.270
in these debates,
1892
00:51:22.730 --> 00:51:23.430
they don't
1893
00:51:23.560 --> 00:51:25.000
actually know what Trump said,
1894
00:51:25.050 --> 00:51:27.150
they don't actually know what I believe.
1895
00:51:27.490 --> 00:51:30.350
They assume that because I voted for Donald Trump,
1896
00:51:30.490 --> 00:51:32.160
I agree with everything he's done.
1897
00:51:32.370 --> 00:51:33.200
I'm pro-life,
1898
00:51:33.290 --> 00:51:33.950
which I'm not,
1899
00:51:34.090 --> 00:51:35.120
I'm pro-flat tax,
1900
00:51:35.210 --> 00:51:35.990
which I'm not,
1901
00:51:36.230 --> 00:51:37.320
or that I'm anti-immigration,
1902
00:51:37.410 --> 00:51:38.270
which I'm not.
1903
00:51:38.730 --> 00:51:38.920
They,
1904
00:51:39.050 --> 00:51:39.440
they,
1905
00:51:39.730 --> 00:51:42.750
if you only follow the likes of CNN or MS now,
1906
00:51:43.410 --> 00:51:46.960
You are not getting accurate representations of what Trump is actually saying.
1907
00:51:47.050 --> 00:51:47.600
And don't get me wrong,
1908
00:51:47.690 --> 00:51:48.990
if you're watching Fox News,
1909
00:51:49.170 --> 00:51:50.630
you're getting the inverse problem.
1910
00:51:51.050 --> 00:51:52.890
But I think what we see here politically,
1911
00:51:52.930 --> 00:51:54.520
and we can go back to 2016,
1912
00:51:55.330 --> 00:51:56.960
9 million individuals
1913
00:51:57.180 --> 00:51:58.820
who voted for Barack Obama
1914
00:51:59.260 --> 00:52:01.770
chose to vote for Donald Trump over
1915
00:52:01.940 --> 00:52:02.770
Hillary Clinton.
1916
00:52:03.060 --> 00:52:04.400
I was a Bernie supporter,
1917
00:52:04.620 --> 00:52:06.780
and when Bernie was iced out from the DNC,
1918
00:52:07.140 --> 00:52:08.330
and it happened twice by the way,
1919
00:52:08.580 --> 00:52:08.890
I said,
1920
00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:10.160
well then Trump's my guy.
1921
00:52:10.380 --> 00:52:11.770
I'm not gonna vote for Hillary Clinton.
1922
00:52:11.820 --> 00:52:12.970
I think she's a terrible candidate.
1923
00:52:13.060 --> 00:52:14.010
I think she's a warmonger,
1924
00:52:14.130 --> 00:52:16.010
not that Trump's earned any Brownie points in that regard.
1925
00:52:16.450 --> 00:52:17.520
But then with 2020,
1926
00:52:17.810 --> 00:52:20.240
when Bernie Sanders has another opportunity and I fully backed
1927
00:52:20.240 --> 00:52:23.650
the Democratic Party with maximum donations on numerous occasions,
1928
00:52:23.890 --> 00:52:24.790
what did they do?
1929
00:52:25.050 --> 00:52:28.870
They coordinated everyone to drop out to make sure Joe Biden got the nomination,
1930
00:52:28.890 --> 00:52:29.160
and I said,
1931
00:52:29.180 --> 00:52:30.620
I'm not voting for these people.
1932
00:52:30.850 --> 00:52:32.600
This is not a legitimate primary process.
1933
00:52:32.770 --> 00:52:33.580
I wanted
1934
00:52:33.710 --> 00:52:34.480
Bernie Sanders,
1935
00:52:34.570 --> 00:52:35.320
we didn't get it.
1936
00:52:35.490 --> 00:52:36.120
I'm done.
1937
00:52:36.290 --> 00:52:36.440
And,
1938
00:52:36.490 --> 00:52:37.520
and I'll fully admit I'm not a big fan.
1939
00:52:37.630 --> 00:52:38.770
of Bernie these days.
1940
00:52:39.220 --> 00:52:40.010
Come 2024,
1941
00:52:40.060 --> 00:52:42.560
I vote for Donald Trump because of his first term and because
1942
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:45.230
we were living under a nightmare administration
1943
00:52:45.540 --> 00:52:45.900
in with,
1944
00:52:45.930 --> 00:52:46.770
with Joe Biden.
1945
00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:50.040
I don't think Trump has done everything perfectly these days,
1946
00:52:50.300 --> 00:52:50.450
but,
1947
00:52:50.540 --> 00:52:50.950
uh,
1948
00:52:51.260 --> 00:52:51.410
you know,
1949
00:52:51.460 --> 00:52:51.510
I,
1950
00:52:51.620 --> 00:52:52.650
I think it's still the,
1951
00:52:52.740 --> 00:52:53.200
the,
1952
00:52:53.470 --> 00:52:54.560
it's still been the better choice.
1953
00:52:54.710 --> 00:52:55.170
Overall,
1954
00:52:55.340 --> 00:52:58.760
do you feel like debates like this spend too much time
1955
00:52:59.110 --> 00:52:59.300
You know,
1956
00:52:59.390 --> 00:53:04.450
arguing over intent and not enough time discussing the impacts of
1957
00:53:04.750 --> 00:53:06.570
these kind of messages and,
1958
00:53:06.830 --> 00:53:06.980
you know,
1959
00:53:07.080 --> 00:53:08.400
the power that they can have.
1960
00:53:08.750 --> 00:53:08.860
Well,
1961
00:53:08.990 --> 00:53:09.150
look,
1962
00:53:09.270 --> 00:53:10.050
one guy
1963
00:53:10.390 --> 00:53:14.100
showed up with a beanie in his back pocket because I think too many of these young
1964
00:53:14.100 --> 00:53:18.100
people are just trying to get notability on social media in any way that they can.
1965
00:53:18.690 --> 00:53:20.710
And I don't feel that it,
1966
00:53:20.730 --> 00:53:21.040
uh,
1967
00:53:21.330 --> 00:53:23.670
it serves the betterment of mankind
1968
00:53:24.010 --> 00:53:26.800
to just be enemies for the sake of being enemies.
1969
00:53:27.170 --> 00:53:27.660
So,
1970
00:53:27.970 --> 00:53:28.320
in essence,
1971
00:53:28.340 --> 00:53:29.320
I would agree with you.
1972
00:53:30.210 --> 00:53:32.990
Many of these conversations aren't genuinely trying
1973
00:53:33.010 --> 00:53:34.480
to understand the issues at hand,
1974
00:53:34.770 --> 00:53:36.700
they're just trying to clip farm
1975
00:53:37.170 --> 00:53:38.990
so that it can look like they're standing
1976
00:53:39.010 --> 00:53:41.620
up to a representation of what oppresses their,
1977
00:53:42.130 --> 00:53:43.190
their tribe.
1978
00:53:43.610 --> 00:53:44.390
We see this
1979
00:53:44.570 --> 00:53:45.830
in every political group.
1980
00:53:46.170 --> 00:53:46.320
You know,
1981
00:53:46.370 --> 00:53:49.290
my most viral clips are when I'm debating someone and angry.
1982
00:53:49.810 --> 00:53:51.310
And uh that's
1983
00:53:51.450 --> 00:53:55.090
0.001% of the content that I produce.
1984
00:53:55.300 --> 00:53:55.450
You know,
1985
00:53:55.530 --> 00:53:55.840
for instance,
1986
00:53:55.890 --> 00:53:57.750
we had Brian Shapiro on several times,
1987
00:53:58.050 --> 00:53:58.950
and though we disagreed,
1988
00:53:58.970 --> 00:54:00.470
we were laughing the whole time.
1989
00:54:00.770 --> 00:54:01.010
Cause I,
1990
00:54:01.100 --> 00:54:01.240
you know,
1991
00:54:01.290 --> 00:54:01.360
I,
1992
00:54:01.450 --> 00:54:02.590
I've come to realize this and,
1993
00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:02.720
and,
1994
00:54:02.770 --> 00:54:03.050
and I,
1995
00:54:03.130 --> 00:54:04.120
I agree with the assessment.
1996
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:05.190
You know,
1997
00:54:05.240 --> 00:54:05.350
I'll,
1998
00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:07.380
I'll get frustrated or angry when someone,
1999
00:54:07.600 --> 00:54:07.830
uh,
2000
00:54:08.080 --> 00:54:08.470
lies,
2001
00:54:08.600 --> 00:54:10.040
misrepresents facts or otherwise,
2002
00:54:10.520 --> 00:54:12.740
but I'm just sick and tired of these
2003
00:54:13.080 --> 00:54:14.990
angry clips that get produced,
2004
00:54:15.120 --> 00:54:15.310
you know,
2005
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:16.700
we're all angry all the time,
2006
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:18.910
and I don't feel it's actually helping any
2007
00:54:18.910 --> 00:54:21.030
of us understand how to solve these problems.
2008
00:54:21.120 --> 00:54:21.500
So,
2009
00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:22.630
in the future,
2010
00:54:22.680 --> 00:54:24.160
I'm gonna try to avoid
2011
00:54:24.630 --> 00:54:25.770
instances where an individual,
2012
00:54:25.910 --> 00:54:26.350
actually this,
2013
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:27.460
this happened on the show,
2014
00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:29.430
when the dude began to do his performance,
2015
00:54:29.520 --> 00:54:30.900
I just got out of the chair and walked off.
2016
00:54:31.160 --> 00:54:33.230
Waited for him to finish and then came back and sat down.
2017
00:54:33.540 --> 00:54:34.380
You wanna do a,
2018
00:54:34.460 --> 00:54:38.000
a clip farming thing where you put on a beanie and then just insult me,
2019
00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:39.440
do it on your own time.
2020
00:54:39.620 --> 00:54:40.560
If you wanna have a conversation,
2021
00:54:40.670 --> 00:54:40.940
I'm here,
2022
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:41.600
I'll sit down.
2023
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:42.430
Well,
2024
00:54:42.560 --> 00:54:42.840
lastly,
2025
00:54:43.010 --> 00:54:44.020
before we wrap up,
2026
00:54:44.080 --> 00:54:44.830
you said that,
2027
00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:45.070
you know,
2028
00:54:45.120 --> 00:54:46.700
you can't only get your news from Fox,
2029
00:54:46.770 --> 00:54:48.350
you can't only get it from CNN.
2030
00:54:48.720 --> 00:54:51.570
Where do you recommend people getting their news and getting their information?
2031
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:53.120
Because like you said,
2032
00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:56.190
a lot of it is just clickbait and just looking for,
2033
00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:56.630
you know,
2034
00:54:56.930 --> 00:54:58.430
vari variety.
2035
00:54:58.680 --> 00:54:59.340
And so,
2036
00:54:59.430 --> 00:55:03.380
where are people supposed to get their news and information that they can trust?
2037
00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:04.350
That's a big challenge.
2038
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:04.590
I,
2039
00:55:04.640 --> 00:55:04.750
I,
2040
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:04.990
there,
2041
00:55:05.080 --> 00:55:06.230
there is no one location.
2042
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:06.870
You can't,
2043
00:55:07.080 --> 00:55:07.230
you,
2044
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:08.590
you can't even just look.
2045
00:55:09.170 --> 00:55:09.660
If
2046
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:13.900
someone did an analysis on my shows and found that there is a theme
2047
00:55:14.290 --> 00:55:15.390
to the shows that we produce,
2048
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:16.440
the content that we cover,
2049
00:55:16.660 --> 00:55:17.110
obviously,
2050
00:55:17.240 --> 00:55:19.150
cause there are things that I care about and things that I don't.
2051
00:55:19.240 --> 00:55:21.020
If I cared more about
2052
00:55:21.350 --> 00:55:21.950
the World Cup,
2053
00:55:22.100 --> 00:55:24.910
we would have produced a dozen big breaking news around the World Cup,
2054
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:25.220
but
2055
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:26.670
I'm focused on electoral politics,
2056
00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:27.660
cultural issues,
2057
00:55:28.040 --> 00:55:28.780
sometimes movies.
2058
00:55:29.040 --> 00:55:32.060
So my recommendation for people is check out Allsides.com,
2059
00:55:32.590 --> 00:55:34.460
because all they do is
2060
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:35.820
show you a story.
2061
00:55:36.170 --> 00:55:37.910
And different articles from left,
2062
00:55:38.230 --> 00:55:38.760
lean left,
2063
00:55:38.890 --> 00:55:39.080
center,
2064
00:55:39.130 --> 00:55:40.110
lean right and right.
2065
00:55:40.530 --> 00:55:41.310
It's imperfect,
2066
00:55:41.530 --> 00:55:43.600
because what constitutes right wing or left wing is,
2067
00:55:43.650 --> 00:55:43.880
is,
2068
00:55:43.970 --> 00:55:45.130
is fairly nebulous.
2069
00:55:45.530 --> 00:55:47.230
But if you get your news
2070
00:55:47.520 --> 00:55:47.830
through,
2071
00:55:47.930 --> 00:55:48.080
uh,
2072
00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:48.560
all sides,
2073
00:55:48.580 --> 00:55:49.430
you can see
2074
00:55:49.570 --> 00:55:50.460
when it's a left
2075
00:55:50.730 --> 00:55:52.680
interpretation or a right interpretation,
2076
00:55:52.930 --> 00:55:54.180
and then read them both.
2077
00:55:54.490 --> 00:55:58.360
And they may that still may not guarantee you're getting accurate information.
2078
00:55:58.490 --> 00:55:58.600
I,
2079
00:55:58.730 --> 00:55:59.600
I like to read left,
2080
00:55:59.730 --> 00:55:59.960
center,
2081
00:55:59.980 --> 00:56:02.160
and right on every story to see what I may be missing.
2082
00:56:02.780 --> 00:56:02.890
Uh,
2083
00:56:03.020 --> 00:56:05.890
I would just stress that the difficulty for most people is,
2084
00:56:06.140 --> 00:56:06.250
you know,
2085
00:56:06.490 --> 00:56:07.610
every day when I'm going through the news,
2086
00:56:07.630 --> 00:56:10.280
I'm actually checking source material to verify claims.
2087
00:56:10.540 --> 00:56:12.160
It's not something the average person can do,
2088
00:56:12.270 --> 00:56:12.800
so
2089
00:56:13.260 --> 00:56:15.730
I don't even believe that there's a news service that can get it right,
2090
00:56:15.820 --> 00:56:16.050
but I,
2091
00:56:16.180 --> 00:56:17.450
but I think all sides,
2092
00:56:17.540 --> 00:56:17.610
uh,
2093
00:56:17.700 --> 00:56:18.840
gets as close as you can.
2094
00:56:19.340 --> 00:56:19.530
All right,
2095
00:56:19.620 --> 00:56:19.730
well,
2096
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:20.050
Tim,
2097
00:56:20.260 --> 00:56:24.560
thank you so much for joining us today and thank you everyone at home for watching.
2098
00:56:24.820 --> 00:56:27.350
Be sure to tune in to the next surrounded episode.