Natalie
Hey, it’s Nat.
Rebecca
And Bec — two very different sisters who come together to reframe some of life’s big and small problems. We’re moms, writers.
Natalie
We have soft boundaries. We see the world differently, but we both lean into vulnerability together and with our guests, because we like deep dives. So come with us — let’s reframe something.
Rebecca
Hey, Nat.
Natalie
Hey, Bec. Bec, when we started this podcast three years ago our plan was to work some shit out in our own lives. But I’m amazed at how my worldview has ended up reframed every time we talk to people like Allison Lang.
Rebecca
Agreed. She was so lovely, and I never anticipated we’d be sitting down to chat with a Canadian Paralympian medal winner.
Natalie
I loved so much about our chat with her — learning about her sport…
Rebecca
Sitting volleyball.
Natalie
It was a new one for us. And then how that sport has opened the door for her to move forward from some pretty brutal bullying to become a disability advocate in so many different settings.
Rebecca
From brand influencing to speaking about her prosthetic leg in schools, and she’s just so positive. Her worldview is inherently hopeful, which I really loved.
Natalie
We hope you get as much out of this conversation as we did, because if anyone can reframe resilience, it’s Paralympian Allison Lang.
Rebecca
Allison, you were just on holiday?
Allison
I was, yeah. I went for a five day holiday with my sister and my cousins, which was really nice. A little girl’s trip.
Natalie
Yes.
Rebecca
Oh, that’s so nice.
Natalie
Are you pretty tight with your sister — like, as we sit here with two sisters recording you?
Allison
We’re getting closer as we get older, definitely. It’s really hard, though — we live in different cities, so this was really something special to meet up in Mexico and hang out for a long weekend.
Natalie
Wow, that’s lovely.
Rebecca
Everyone came from their respective cities?
Allison
Yeah.
Natalie
That’s neat. Ok, well, let’s just dive in. Allison, you’re an athlete from Team Canada — and specifically their sitting volleyball team. Can you please educate two non-volleyballers about this sport?
Allison
Yeah, I’m a proud Paralympian —just recently became a Paralympian, actually. A bronze medalist, in fact.
Natalie
Congratulations.
Allison
Thank you. Yeah, it’s insane to say that my team made history this summer. We are the very first sitting volleyball team to ever bring a medal home for Canada. So that’s really cool.
Natalie
Wow.
Allison
Sitting volleyball is still a newer sport. It just joined the Paralympics in 2004, and it’s a little bit different than indoor. So we are sitting directly on the floor, not on trolleys. So we tend to wear leggings and shorts over top just so we can slide on our butts a lot simpler. The court is smaller. It’s 10 meters by six meters, and the net is a lot lower. For women, it’s 1.05 meters high and for men it’s 1.15 meters high. And it’s all the same rules — six players on the court at a time. You serve, pass, bump, set, three touches on either side. There is slight rule changes: you can actually block a serve, and then a part of your torso has to be in contact with the floor while you’re making contact with the ball. And that’s to level the playing field for people of all diverse disabilities, so people with two legs don’t stand up and run and go get a ball or stand up over the net. So it’s just to keep everyone down lower, and it’s a lot faster because you don’t have as much space between your arms and the floor for diving. You’re already on the floor. So the game is high speed, and it is so much fun.
Natalie
Oh my goodness.
Rebecca
Wow.
Natalie
And how many of you are on the team? So like, I mean, obviously six on the floor at a time, but how many is this crew of women who are all doing this work together?
Allison
We went to Paris with 11 athletes.
Natalie
11, ok.
Allison
Yeah. You can travel to the Paralympics with 12.
Natalie
Gotcha. Ok.
Allison
Yeah.
Natalie
Oh my goodness.
Allison
I know — it’s crazy. If anyone’s listening though, we are looking to grow our developmental program, so you can come out and try and hang out with all of us national athletes and learn to play sitting volleyball.
Natalie
Cool. And where do you train? If somebody actually was responding to that call, where is that?
Allison
Individually with a regional coach in Montreal, and then once a month our team flies to Edmonton, Alberta to train for… could be anywhere from five days to a week or two per month.
Natalie
Ok, wow.
Rebecca
So Allison, on your website it says that you were born missing the lower half of your left leg and have become a passionate advocate for those with disabilities. So one, can you tell us a little bit about your story? And two, is resilience a word for you?
Allison
Yeah, so I was unexpectedly born with one leg. I am the oldest of four kids, so I was my parents’ very first baby. And I was actually a breech baby, so they had organized to have a C-section done. And when I was born, the doctor actually took me away from my parents and came back and said, “Oh, there’s something wrong with your daughter.” I can’t even imagine hearing those words. My parents told me, and I just have, like, so much sympathy for that moment for them. Thank God my mom is a nurse though, because she asked what was the matter and he proceeded to say, “Oh, your daughter is missing her left leg below the knee.” And my mom kind of interjected and was like, “How are her lungs? How’s her heart? How are all of her organs?” And he responded with, “Everything else seems to be ok.”
So together my parents were like, “There’s nothing wrong with her. We’ll just raise her like any other child.” And I’m lucky — I had three younger siblings that are very close in age with me. So I grew up playing soccer and going to swim lessons and learning how to ski — although skiing was very hard for me, I couldn’t control my left ski as well, So I took up snowboarding. And I loved sports a lot, and my family was super supportive, and I never felt different — except for elementary school. That’s where the bullying started for me and it was really, really bad. I don’t wish it upon anybody. I was bullied both emotionally and physically.
Every few years, just because of my disability… I was born with what’s called fibular hemimelia. I have my tibia bone, but I don’t have my fibula bone. So the muscle mass below my knee isn’t as thick, and my skin never stretched with the bone. So every time I had a growth spurt, the bone would start piercing through the skin, and I’d have to go for revision surgeries to trim down the bone a little bit. So that would mean I’d have to relearn how to walk, go to school on crutches, maybe sometimes a wheelchair. That’s where I started to be isolated. There was one girl in my class in particular that would call me things like peg leg and Barbie — before it was cool to be called Barbie. And I would always be picked last for sports, or there was one instance where my prosthetic leg was buried in the sandbox and I was pushed over on my crutches.
And so, I mean, those are really detrimental years for kids, and they’re formative. And for me, it made me learn to hate my body — like, far before we’re supposed to learn how to love parts of ourselves. And there were days I would come home and I would tell my mom things like, “Why do people believe in God? If there is a God like, I don’t understand — why did he create me to be this way?” I’m just being like, patronized at school every single day. I can’t handle it. I don’t want to be alive anymore. I wish I was born as somebody else. And it still upsets me to say those things, because no child between the ages of eight to ten years old should ever think that they don’t deserve to be on this earth. And so I ended up switching schools after elementary into junior high, and that’s where I took my control back, but in a way that still wasn’t positive. I decided to hide my disability from everybody. And so I’d go to school in pants, even in, you know, hot summer days. And I would try to wear thick tights — two pairs of, you know, tan coloured tights to try and make my prosthetic leg match as much as possible. And I started becoming obsessed and consumed about making my prosthetic look as real as possible, and that was the only thing I could focus on. And I started losing sight of other things that brought me joy in life.
And as sad as this is to say, it wasn’t until my early twenties where I really started thinking about why I’m on this earth and what I want out of life. And I’m not living it for anybody else. And I mean, I have sitting volleyball to thank for that. I quit soccer and swimming around the age of 14 because I could no longer hide my leg from others. And then I was invited to come try sitting volleyball. And I didn’t want to go at first — I’m like, “Mm, I don’t want to play an adaptive sport. People already think less of people with disabilities. I don’t want to play a sport and have people think, ‘Oh, she can’t play regular standing indoor volleyball.’” And my mom was the one that made me go, and then I fell in love with it. I finally met women with similar stories to mine — maybe a little bit different, but have either been born with a disability or accumulated a disability by an accident or illness, but they were leading such beautiful lives. Like, I know you mentioned the question about resiliency, but all these women I had met were resilient in their own way.
Natalie
Yeah.
Allison
They had partners, they owned homes, they lived independently. They had children, careers. They traveled, they represented their country on the world’s largest stage. And I became obsessed and I wanted to be just like that. And I have that to thank. It also took me around the world. I started competing at the age of 16 in Brazil, England, all across the United States, and now I’ve had the privilege of competing all over Europe, and it gave me the travel bug. And so I started travelling more often, as you both know, and started seeing that I could go backpacking by myself for three months at a time and that I could do anything that I set my mind to, and the only thing that was holding me back with my disability was the fear in judgments of others. And so once I let that go, I started doing everything for myself and I could not be more happy than I am now.
Natalie
What a story — oh my goodness. I have to know,who’s the person that even suggested sitting volleyball? Because you said, “And then you were introduced.”
Rebecca
Oh, her mom.
Natalie
No — your mom encouraged you to go for the team.
Rebecca
Oh.
Natalie
But who was the one that actually brought it to you?
Allison
Yeah, it was my friend Amber, who I had met… there’s an organization in Canada, a non-for-profit called the War Amps CHAMP program, and champ stands for “child amputee.” And so I would go to these seminars every year. And she was on that team, and she’s like, “You have to come try it — like, you’re athletic.” And I’m like, “I’ve never played volleyball in my life.” Like, I used to kick a soccer ball with my feet. And I went, I sucked — but I mean, that’s what our program was for. They ended up building me into the player I am today.
Natalie
Super. Wow. I think it’s exciting to obviously hear the beauty of the familial support — like, you know, win one for the moms who are, like, these for their kids in that beautiful way, which is amazing. But also how it takes a whole village, right? I mean, like, it takes an Amber and it takes a CHAMPs program, and just all of these components that build together towards this life-changing experience that you’ve described of a sport, which is phenomenal.
The idea of body acceptance and body positivity is a really interesting thing that I empathize with you on in my own way. I have my own limb difference from a chronic illness that came on in adulthood. So I was about 34 when everything sort of shifted for me. And I am 46 and I’m still navigating my day-to-day experience of how visible I want to let my leg be. And I’m very like, “Ok, if Allison says…” Like, that’s really how I’m feeling right now, because I’m like, “Oh my frick.” I love learning from folks who are younger than me anyways, but it’s just such a beautiful thing to hear that your journey took you time, but you’re so much further ahead than I am — and that doesn’t mean I can’t get there.
Allison
Our own journey with our bodies is not linear.
Natalie
Yeah.
Allison
Up here, you know — like, thank you for sharing that and bringing that up because I think a lot of people are so quick to look on social media. And I mean, I show my leg all the time now, but there are days that I still wake up and, you know, if I’m having a bad leg day or I can’t fit my prosthetic on or I’m really struggling to, you know, do everyday things or, you know, the prejudice that comes with me using my accessible parking pass and people approaching me saying I’m too young to use it. Like, there are still those challenges in my everyday life that people don’t see that maybe I don’t talk about enough. And so it’s hard because when you do see someone living with a limb difference or a disability, you’re like, “Oh, they’re doing so much better than me.”
But I want to remind you and everyone else listening that I still have my days, but also I want to share those authentic real moments online, but it’s hard to, it’s very vulnerable. And then sometimes you’re met with hate online or people not empathizing or understanding. And I would love for my community to know as much as possible that, you know, there’s ebbs and flows in every single day. And some days I still get frustrated with my leg. But overall, in the long term, we just need to find the beauty so we’re not always in hiding, because every body does deserve to be celebrated.
Natalie
And seen.
Allison
Yes.
Natalie
Like, truly seen by the self and others. Yeah, absolutely.
Rebecca
And do you imagine going back? I mean, I know it’s a little bit trite to say, but I’m sure in therapy and stuff, did you ever get encouraged to write a letter to your bullies?
Natalie
Oh, good one.
Allison
Letter to my bullies, yeah. I’ve written so many letters to my young self at different stages. It’s really funny that you ask that though, because if I’m being honest, I don’t hold a lot of hate or resentment for the bullies that I had. I think as an adult just going through all the therapy, and I did end up getting my education degree…
Natalie
Cool.
Allison
So I did want to be a teacher. I wanted to be a safe space for students because I didn’t always have that. And just going through the education system, it kind of opened my eyes that maybe my bullies didn’t have the support system that I did at home, and so they took it out on me at school, and I feel sorry for them that they felt that that was their last resource. And so I don’t carry that with me, which I think is quite freeing. And I’m hoping that anybody else that might hold on to that, you know, past bully that they had can hopefully find peace with that in the future, too.
Rebecca
Yeah, I think that’s well said. It doesn’t serve you to hold onto any kind of hate or resentment. So yeah, thank you for sharing that. Have you really seen progress — like, meaningful progress in terms of disability and inclusivity, like, in our world? Would you say we’re in a more progressive place, or is that a complicated question where you see lots of forward movement and backward movement? I ask that because we have, you know, a friend in a wheelchair and she’s commented on, you know, how it gets damaged at airports and these kinds of things. So don’t know if that’s where you see progress or not.
Natalie
Well in fact, I think I saw a picture of you the other day holding one of your legs because you were like, “I am not putting this sucker under the plane,” because you’ve had your experiences of things getting damaged. So that’s another example of that.
Allison
Yeah, this is such a tricky question. I think a year ago I would have said, “100% I see progression and I see the advancement in disability inclusion and accessibility.” However, with the current state of the world, it’s being pulled back. And I’m really fortunate — like, I didn’t touch on this yet, but I work as a content creator, a model, a speaker. And so I work with amazing brands and companies that either bring me on to discuss disability with their organization or to shoot content for their brand because they want to be inclusive or model for them. And so there are brands that are making a statement that, you know, DEI is here to stay. And I think it is so crucial. I mean, the representation of disabled people is so important. And I always say this because disability doesn’t discriminate — anybody can become disabled at any moment in time. Illness, accidents, and aging is inevitable. We all go through it, so we will be disabled at one point or another within our lifetime. And if we take away that representation, disability just becomes scary when in fact, that’s not a scary thing.
There is a whole community — we make up the largest marginalized community in the entire world. We’re 18% of the global population, and anybody from any other minority can be part of our community. And so I think that’s a beautiful thing. And I’ve worked with amazing brands like Rietman’s, Anthropologie launched an adaptive-friendly line that I modelled for. And I work with an incredible travel company, Intrepid Travel, that even with the current state of the United States and then pulling back on the DEI initiatives, they’ve stood their ground and they’re adding more initiatives for their DEI program — standing with their values instead of just going with what was expected of them. And I think one of the examples that I use right now, since you mentioned airlines — just with everything going on in the United States, they have the ADA that’s being withdrawn and Bill 504, which is, you know, the protection of disabled people and seeing them as equal citizens within society. And all these airlines came out saying they wanted to drop their rights on flights.
Natalie
Wow.
Allison
Like saying that they don’t have to be liable for any damage of medical things that are being transported, including wheelchairs. And I was flabbergasted to see that Delta was on that list because they are a official sponsor of the Paralympic team for Team USA. So it just makes me feel like there is companies and brands that are for it and they have deep, meaningful, rooted values within inclusion, but then there are brands that might still do it just for the fad or for the recognition that they’re trying to be inclusive, but maybe, you know, they have it on the forefront of their billboards, but not necessarily in the background. And so I always encourage companies not only to have people show up in your advertisements, but to bring disabled people and invite them and give them a seat at the table to share their lived experiences, to share why this is important.
And yeah, it does make me sad because I mean, as I get older, I read every airline that I fly with and I just want to know the fine print. If I do put my prosthetic leg in a suitcase and it gets lost or damaged, are they going to pay? Are they liable? Will I have to go through my insurer? It’s such important things, and I think that when I was younger, I used to be really self-conscious of bringing my prosthetic leg in my hand on flights because I didn’t want people to stare at me. But am I willing to risk the damage of a $15,000 leg for my, you know, dignity, or will I just carry it on and be proud and know that it’s safe with me because we can bring our medical devices as an extra luggage or extra piece onto aircrafts? So it’s a double-edged sword, this question. I see the progression, but I also see the pullback. And I think that is just something that we’re going to have to maybe deal with for a few years and then hopefully it gets back on track a little bit.
Natalie
Right — like, the pendulum might swing. You know, it’s funny, I was talking with my husband this morning, he’s over in England right now visiting his mom and it’s in Manchester, so he had sort of been passing by and seeing advertisements for Liverpool all in the North. And I don’t know if this is so clear to you, it was new to me, the Liverpool Disability Festival is something super enormous, so we should all go and look it up after this. And it was, like, super arts-based. And I thought this was so amazing: they had projected onto a really big brick wall this woman who was a spoken word artist, but who, in her spoken word work, she is also deaf and is using ASL to do her spoken word. And the theme of the festival is rage. And I’m like, “Fuck right, that’s awesome.”I was like, “Yes, ok.” So she’s projecting this rage-filled beautiful piece of poetry, but silently for anybody who’s assuming that spoken word poetry has to be done as an oral process, whereas this art was being shared, you know, with her hands. And I just thought, “How lovely and interesting,” and how art kind of provides a way forward. And we’ve already talked about your sport and now you’ve gestured to your work in terms of modelling and brand work, but is art kind of imbued in any of that for you? Like, is that sort of how you would see yourself in terms of resilience in this work?
Allison
Yeah. First of all, I’m adding that festival to my bucket list of things I need to do in my lifetime and attend. Yeah, so I mentioned that one of my degrees was in education. My first studies, I did graphic design and photography. So I grew up doing art. It was kind of a way of escapism for me from my bullying. When my parents and I would go on road trips through Alberta and BC as a family with my siblings, I would collect little postcards of, you know, whales or bears, and I would draw them out and replicate them.
I was really into art, and I think it is a great way of expression. I think that it is carried through in what I do now and the way that I show up. And I love writing poetry. I don’t really show that online or anything of that nature, but I find that also helped me through this transition and my self-love journey. I leaned a lot on words of affirmation, and I would do, like, little short poems. I would write beautiful things on my floor-length mirror with a whiteboard marker so every day that I woke up, I had to see these wonderful things about myself. And I would draw little pictures — you know, just something to make my day more vibrant than I felt it was at the time. And I think that, you know, if you can find the beauty in life, like, there’s art all around us. And I think that, you know, that can transpire into ways that we can make transformation within the way we see not only our surroundings, but ourselves, too.
Rebecca
Sometimes people ask us if we make money doing this podcast. The answer is we don’t. In fact, every hour we spend on Reframables is time not spent at a paying gig. And the steps to making a podcast are actually many. Finding the guests, booking the guests, reading the books, planning the questions, editing the interview, uploading it into the podcast world, making the artwork. So if you value this podcast, please consider supporting it with a financial contribution. Memberships start at $6 a month on Patreon and include a monthly extra where we record our five things in a week. In this world we have to support what we love, and with that support an energy comes back to us — so thanks for going to patreon.com/reframables and becoming a supporter. It doesn’t really make a lot of sense to be making a podcast, but here we are, three years later, still doing it with your help. So go to patreon.com/reframables — now, on to the show.
Is rage a word for you? Do you resonate with rage?
Allison
Yeah, definitely. There are moments in time that I do feel rage. Maybe not, like, so much like I’m going to, like, express rage and, like, anger, like, violently — but, like, in the sense that it’s brewing inside of me. I find that maybe my most creative moments are when I do feel a little bit of rage with how, you know, I’m treated or someone else is treated within society or, you know, the dismantle-ization of, like, certain bills that are implemented or things that I’ve just firsthand experienced or gone through. And I think that’s when I start writing. So I’ll write creative captions, or I’ll make a reel to explain my story in that way.
But I don’t want it to come off as rage — like, I love the whole theme of rage, don’t get me wrong. I think that is so powerful. And also, really, I’m such a strong feminist and I hate that, like, women aren’t expected to express rage all the time, but I think that we can and we should. But even when I’m angry and I feel rage, I try to showcase it in a way that’s inviting — to bring people into the conversation instead of having them feel standoffish or like, “Oh, that was a lot.” So there are different forms of rage that I think can be used, for sure.
Natalie
That makes sense. And it is true — the invitation in is a navigation point all the time. In so many arenas, right, but specifically in this disability conversation — how to include more people in the conversation because, as you prefaced, everybody’s going to be a part of that community. How do you find a way to welcome folks into the conversation early so that it’s accessible, quite literally?
Rebecca
Allison, how do you unwind after all these really big experiences that you’re a part of? You’re training on the world stage. Like, there must be a lot of highs and lows in your life. How do you, what’s the word… like… like, you know that thing, like, it’s not “decontract.” What’s the word, Nat?
Natalie
Decompress?
Allison
Decompress.
Rebecca
Decompress. That’s the word I wanted. How do you decompress or, you know, reconnect to self?
Allison
I feel like I’m still trying to discover the way that I can fully decompress. I feel like, especially last year, just with the Paralympic Games going on in the summer and the lead up to the training… I mean, that was years in the making, but for sure last year was my heaviest year as far as, like, travel for competitions, for interviews, for media. And all this stuff piled up, and I looked at my schedule last year before the Paralympic Games and I had only been home for two and a half weeks. That was the longest period I had been home between January to September of 2024.
Natalie
Wow.
Allison
And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” I didn’t realize how much on the move I was. Which was a great thing, but I’m also experiencing burnout right now. So I’m still trying to navigate that way and how to bring me out of burnout. I do wear a lot of different hats, though, as far as everything that I do with training and travel. I mean, I’m so lucky I love what I do. I love that I get to connect with people online and work in content creation — like, when I was in Mexico with my sisters, I shot for a bikini brand, which was super cool. And I mean, there’s a fine line or a blurred line for me — like, I love my work, but I also take it on vacation with me sometimes, which I think is not always the healthiest. So I need to find, like, when do I turn it off? And that’s been really hard. I’m sure you both can understand with your podcasts and growing businesses and, you know, being outspoken on certain topics. It can be hard. Like, that entrepreneur brain is like, “Oh, I need to always be go-go-go. Like, I want to do the next project. I want to find the next thing.”
Natalie
Yes.
Allison
And I think what I’m really starting to learn now… I mean, it’s nicer weather in Montreal today. So the sun is shining. So I’m like, “Ok, I need to start reading. I’d like to go on bike rides in the summer, try and incorporate more of the slow living,” — even into my busy lifestyle. And I’m still travelling for volleyball this year, but it is at a reduced rate just because we don’t have the Paralympic Games pressing this year. We have till 2028, and there will be a buildup back into that. So I think I’m going to prioritize a lot more time in nature, listening to audio books, being outside, travelling leisurely for fun with, you know, just no pressures of work or volleyball being associated to that. And I really just love connecting with other people.
Rebecca
Who is the voice that is encouraging you to, you know, to slow down? Or do you have a voice that encourages that?
Allison
It’s my own voice for sure.
Natalie
Oh good.
Rebecca
It’s your own voice. Ooh.
Allison
Yeah. I think I’ve become more self-aware this year, which is really good. Just with the whole burnout thing, I’m like, “I can’t do this to myself every time,” because I’m becoming unmotivated. I am becoming less outgoing, which is not who I am. I love chatting with people and getting to know other people. And so I think this voice in my head was like, “Ok, you need to take a break — like, a mental break, and find something that brings you joy outside of sport.” And I think that’s one thing that athletes often struggle with. Especially last year, everything that I was doing leading up to the games, and even after — when we won a medal, I was going and speaking at schools and conferences and sharing the excitement and the thrill of it all.
But I became so hyper-consumed in just sport and just talking about sport. And it became the biggest piece of my identity that I started losing out on, like, the little hobbies that I used to do. And so then when that kind of, like, started to dwindle and fade, I lost a piece of myself and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, what do I do now?” Like, I had the post-game blues. I thought I was becoming depressed, but it wasn’t that. It was just I needed to reconnect with myself outside of sport to know that, you know, if I do get injured or if something happens to our team, I’m not just Allison the athlete or volleyball player. I’m also Allison who loves photography and drawing and, you know, being outside in nature and going for hikes. So there’s that important thing. I think we can often get consumed in one thing because we want to advance in it, but all the little things that are part of what you enjoy are so important, too.
Natalie
I’ve told this story to Rebecca before when we’ve had moments at the end of a big project and there’s that feeling of just being, “Ugh,” and I’m like, “Well, this is what Kylie Minogue lived.” And it wasn’t even actually in relation to her cancer diagnosis. It wasn’t about that. It was actually her saying… she had this really great, I don’t know if it was an interview for Vulture or whatever, but she was, like, basically at the end of a concert she has a really big crash. And I’m like, “Well, then we’re just Kylie Minogue.” Like, I mean, we’re all versions of Kylie Minogue now. And so we can call ourselves super famous and let ourselves have a moment when we have a crash, and that crash can be something we can recover from if we can sort of name it for what it is, right? Like, if we can name with words that feeling. So I love that the person doing the naming of that feeling for you is your own voice. I think that’s really empowering to hear that you can be your own Kylie Minogue.
Allison
Yeah.
Rebecca
Nat, ok, hold on, Nat. Kylie Minogue, is that a reference you know, Allison?
Allison
Yeah, I know the singer.
Rebecca
Yeah, you do. Ok.
Natalie
Rebecca, who doesn’t know?
Rebecca
Ok, I’m just checking. I’m just checking.
Natalie
She’s thinking because it’s an older reference — but it’s not, and she’s still super cool. So just saying.
Rebecca
Ok.
Allison
I might be a little bit younger, but I’m still a millennial. Of course I know who she is.
Natalie
Thank you.
Rebecca
Ok. I feel like I’m in a stage now where I have to, like, check my references with my students. They’re saying things I do not know, everyone. So I’m like, “What does that mean?” So now I’m worried about how I talk. And I’m worried for you, Nat, but apparently we don’t have to be, so all good.
Natalie
I’m too chronically online to be too out of it. And your students are younger than mine. So just so you know, Allison, so I end up teaching people who are often older than me because they’ve been in their careers for 20, 30 years, whatever it ends up being. But Rebecca is teaching early-ish film students. So they’re, you know, early twenties. So it’s this funny sort of mix.
Rebecca
They’re babies. They’re 18.
Allison
That’s so fun.
Natalie
So we bring very different stories, right, to our table here in terms of this Reframeables work, that’s for sure.
Allison
I love this. A call full of teachers right now.
Natalie
It is. You know what? It is. And interesting, right, that the teaching isn’t the one thing — like, we love the work, but we also have a podcast, just like you have a sport, just like we make films, just like you shoot pictures and that whole idea of everybody being multitudes, I think it can sort of become a memeified statement, but it’s, like, legitimately, like, a very sort of multitudinal identity that is really healthy probably to lean into for all the reasons that you’ve said.
Allison
Yeah, 100%.
Natalie
One thing can be, you know, a heart of that moment and then you’ve got to lean on the other one. What’s a book… like, you said as a reader that you might be listening to out on a bike ride. What’s something that you have on your to-do list for this downtime that you’re preparing yourself for?
Allison
My downtime has been great. My goal this year was to read 12 books, one a month, and I’m already on book eight this year.
Natalie
Ooh, ok. What are a few of the books that you’ve really enjoyed?
Allison
Yeah, I joined a book club with my girlfriends, which is good — it holds me accountable. But we just finished reading The Women, about women in the Vietnam War that were nurses. And so that was really powerful. I do read a lot of finance and self-help books. My therapist told me to lean off of that and to actually read more romance and lighthearted things so my life doesn’t feel so, like, weighted heavy by this blanket of just self-growth all the time, whether it be in my business or, like, in a book. But I did also read The Let Them Theory recently. We were talking about the topic of rage and it has just, like, helped me let a lot of things go, which is amazing. So yeah, every time something happens that’s out of my control, I just say, “Let them,” and then I can feel the rage in my body just, like, fizzle out, and it’s amazing.
But yeah, there are a couple books that I want to revisit this year. One of them is Disability Visibility. And then my friend Tiffany wrote The Anti-Ableist Manifesto. I don’t know if you’ve had an opportunity…
Natalie
Tiffany — yeah, yeah, yeah. Ok.
Allison
Yeah, so I started it. I didn’t get to finish it because I went to the games last year, but my goal this year is to reread the first half and then finish it this year. You know, I mean, people think I’m a pro because of my disability — that I know everything about disability. I don’t. I will be the first to admit that. There is such a variety of different disabilities and a spectrum with different disabilities, and I just love to be more knowledgeable. So I’m doing my learning even though I have firsthand experiences, and I hope to encourage other people to do the same.
Natalie
Wonderful. I think that that’s such a great text, and there are so many others, but that’s pretty cool that it’s right there as a personal connection for you. So that’s wonderful.
Allison
Do you have any book recommendations I can add to my list for this year? Well, ok. We have an upcoming guest that I’m pretty excited for everybody to get to hear her book, and it’s called Faux Feminism. So that might be one — by Dr. Serene Khader. So I will send you the link to that, and you can listen for that episode when it comes out because she’s brilliant, and it’s basically an interrogation of the challenges of how white feminism ends up being a divisive component in terms of any movement towards a global feminism that would actually bring people together. So it’s, like, a dismantling. It’s pretty great. You’ll love the episode because it’s just what you’re interested in, and she’s lovely and smart and funny and all the good things. So that would be one.
Rebecca
Over my holiday, I read Bel Canto by Ann Patchett. That’s a really good one if you’re looking for fiction. And it’s about this opera star, and they get held up at gunpoint in this house and they all live together, and she sings for them. It’s very well-told and very different from, it sounds like, any of the books that have been mentioned. So if you want to go read some fiction, Bel Canto.
Allison
Ok, I will do that. Sounds really good.
Rebecca
Yeah. I wonder if I summarized that well.
Natalie
I think so. Well, you inspired me to want to go look at it again. I think it’s my turn now. I think it’s been passed from mom to Bec, so now it gets to come to me.
Rebecca
Yeah, yeah.
Allison
Oh, nice.
Rebecca
Allison, thank you. You’re so interesting and well-spoken about all these issues and your own self, and you’re, like, so self-reflective, and I’m inspired to go… get more positive, first of all. I was, like, bemoaning a few things this morning with Nat. The positivity that exudes from you is contagious. And your perseverance, just in terms of living — for all of humanity. I feel like my daughter should listen to you speak. Your sense of resilience is enormous, so thank you for sharing all that.
Natalie
Yeah.
Allison
Thank you for saying that. Oh my gosh.
Natalie
Well, and it’s funny — the well-spoken piece is an interesting one, because Becca and I got an email earlier this week from sort of a mentor of ours, who his response to me in this email was, “You well-articulated that idea.” And I was like, “That man just told me that I am articulate. And you know what? I’m going to take that.”
Allison
Those are the best compliments — yeah.
Natalie
Right? And like, you know, maybe five years ago, I would have been like, “Yeah, I’m articulate.” But now I’m like, “I’ll take any compliment, anytime.” Anything that I can wear to get me through this little day. So I think it’s fun the way we can boost each other all — it’s with our words, with our actions. Thank you, Allison. We’re excited to share this conversation with our listeners. We know that they will gain a lot.
Allison
Thank you both for having me. Your energy did just light up my morning as well, and this was an easy conversation to have because of you both. So thank you.
