SOBRE ESTE EPISÓDIO
In this episode, I sit down for another conversation with Dana Calder, a queer, neurodivergent SVP in the fintech world and owner of EmberMind Consulting. Dana and I start with sourdough starter and baking, which turns out to be a surprisingly good entry point into our conversation about how work works. We talk about hierarchy, trust, AI, workplaces, and what happens when we try to use industrialized systems to do relational work, and relational systems to do industrialized work.
We both come at this through a neurodivergent lens, and what we’re trying to make sense of is that feeling of something not making sense, and what happens when you try to adjust yourself to make it work without looking at what the systems are actually trying to do. These are the two types of systems we're taking about today:
Relational: systems that pay attention to connection, context, and the fact that people are always affecting each other. It’s not about being nice or performative, it’s about actually treating relationship as part of the work itself.
Industrialized: systems built around efficiency, predictability, and standardization, systems that tend to assume people should be consistent, measurable, and somewhat interchangeable.
We talk about the confusion that shows up over and over at work when we use the wrong system for the wrong thing. We try to standardize human experience, things like communication, trust, conflict, leadership, and then wonder why it feels flat or performative. And at the same time, we take decisions that actually need clarity and closure and turn them into ongoing relational processes, so nothing fully resolves, but everyone stays emotionally responsible for it.
The tension underneath it all is what it feels like to be a person trying to make sense of systems that are built for predictability doing work full of ambiguity, while also carrying emotional and relational weight for things that actually just need to be decided. This conversation is about noticing that pattern as it shows up in work, leadership, and systems, and what might shift when we start to name it.
