00:00:01Mirror Work and Self-Reflection
00:09:26Challenging Stories and Reactions
00:21:20Reflective Self-Awareness and Personal Growth
00:30:02Steps to Self-Reflection and Clarity
00:37:29Journey to Healing and Abundance
SOBRE ESTE EPISÓDIO
Have you ever caught your reflection and wondered about the person staring back at you? Join Jamy Miranda and myself, Keri Lynn, as we navigate the complexities of 'normality' within ourselves and our relationships. Through mirror work and self-reflection, we'll assist you in identifying the hidden triggers that shape your everyday interactions. Our candid conversation is an invitation to dissect the stories we construct in our minds, stories that can often cloud judgment and provoke emotional upheaval.
Together with Jamy, we delve into the weight of self-awareness and its transformative power on personal development. As we traverse the terrain of parenting and personal connections, we impart the significance of recognizing our children as mirrors of our own behavior. We share our insights on developing curiosity, confronting the discomfort of self-examination, and the necessity of self-care in cultivating healthier bonds with others. It's not about being flawless; it's about becoming conscious and intentional in your responses.
We round off our dialogue by illuminating the path to self-reflection and clarity. I share my journey of pausing to decode the signals from my nervous system, understanding the emotional undercurrents, and facing the triggers that serve as a portal to healing and fulfillment. Embark on this journey with us, as we redefine the narrative of 'normal' and embrace a more empathetic and nurturing perspective on life's intricate connections. We are thrilled to have you with us on Redefining Normal, and eagerly await your thoughts and stories as we continue the conversation beyond the airwaves.
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Keri:
0:01
Welcome to Redefining Normal. Join us as we question conventional thinking and talk about the courage it takes to create and live a deliciously vibrant life.
Jamy:
0:10
This podcast is for people who know there's a better way to do life and love how we show up in connection to others our kids, our partners, our business and, beyond that, our relationship with money, vitality and, more than anything, ourselves.
Keri:
0:26
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to experience the fullness of life.
Jamy:
0:32
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you can't live a life of pleasure, peace and abundance in the midst of the mundane of life, responsibilities, work and kids.
Keri:
0:43
Thank you for listening in. Let's do this. Hello and welcome to Redefining Normal, the first episode of this well-long-awaited podcast. With myself, keri Lynn and Jamie Miranda, we are so excited to have you here listening in, and today we are dropping into a really important foundational principle that will set you guys up for listening to the rest of this show as the years carry on, and we are talking today about mirror work and we'll help you in your relational dynamics with everyone in your life as well.
Jamy:
1:19
Absolutely.
Keri:
1:21
Absolutely. Today we're talking about mirror work and self-reflection, so welcome. Hey, jayme, do you want to start with talking about what is the normal, the normal of what people really start to like? What we want to start with you, what we're hoping to experience on this show, is we're going to start to talk about like, what is the normal and what is? How can we redefine normal? Right, and so can we just start talking about like, what does normal look like when we start to have interaction in relationships? Um, that tends to be the place where I will say so many relationships go triggered, yucky, messy and hurtful Mm-hmm.
Jamy:
2:05
Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I think that what's normal right now is to be operating from a place of unconscious trigger. Most people don't understand how the mind works, how our brain and our physiological responses happen like in a millisecond, based on all of the things that have happened to us in the past. It like makes this quick assessment judgment, it deletes information, it distorts information and it creates a picture that makes sense to our current reference points, and so what we have is a lot of people projecting, is what it's called, is like.
Jamy:
2:49
This is what I see as reality and I'm going to place it on you and operate like it is, in fact, your reality as well, without stopping to assess, to wonder what's causing this. Is this actually true? Is this true for this other person that I'm interacting with? Yeah, so there's just a lot of trigger is the word, and I know trigger is kind of a sensitive word. When I say trigger, I'm talking about a reactive, like an unconscious reaction to something that's happening in front of you, without first stopping to assess if it's actually true or not. Yeah, and so we have people not having relationships or interacting with another person, but actually a projection from themselves of that other person.
Keri:
3:48
Yeah, the thing that comes to me when you say that, the word that comes to me is wounded, right, like we have these inner wounds that happen because maybe we were hurt by a friend or a lover or a partner or a mother or a father in the past.
Keri:
4:00
And we take that wound and we go, oh my God, well, you don't even realize you're coming from that woundedness and you're like well, sometime in the past this person cheated on me or abandoned me or wasn't there when I needed them, or whatever. And so then you take that and you project that energy onto every other relationship. You expect the same experience, or you come from the wounded place, and so when they do something, the reaction it's a reaction. It's like that's why it's the trigger, right, it's the reaction. And so then we go into well, this is how I've got to go and respond because he's going to do this or she's going to do this because of my experience in the past. And then we put the projection being, then we put that all over them, whether that's true for them or not, right, exactly Right. So that can lead to us blaming people, projecting all of our crap over people and reacting to people in a way that's totally unnecessary and oftentimes hurtful to the other person.
Jamy:
4:58
Yeah, and I think when you dig into that even more, it can be a hurt that you consciously remember. It can also be a hurt that is completely like you were two and your mom said get out of the room right now in whatever was happening in her life right, but so it anchors into your awareness according to a certain story. So it can even exist outside of anything. You consciously remember creating these reactions. And I think, on an even smaller scale, it can be beyond woundedness to something that's just happening in another area of life, like I know.
Jamy:
5:36
The example that I had in my workbook last night was about I come home and I'm feeling really short and snippy with people. You know my kid did something that they always do, but this time it's frustrating and I can react like it's them. It's the thing they did that pissed me off. But if I can stop for a minute and be like well, you know, like what is the sensation? What's happening? I recognize I'm frustrated because something didn't go right at work today. That's not my kid's fault. Do you know what I mean? So it's like it's even in these like minute things that we project what's happening inside of us onto everybody around us If we can't stop and self-reflect and be a little bit aware of what might be happening outside of our awareness? This is the hard part. Is people like, oh, I'm not doing that, and the second that you decide it is or isn't happening, you've shut the door to like curiosity to see what you might not be aware of Curiosity is so good.
Keri:
6:33
I saw this a lot. I saw this a lot, for example, with my ex around being tired. He was a lot tired, a lot Right and so tired, and I'm saying this because I know that he's not alone in this. I've done this, we've all done this, like we're all human, right? Yeah and um. And so then people who don't take the responsibility, tired becomes an excuse to be unkind to people.
Keri:
6:55
yeah, well, I'm just cranky, I'm grumpy and, like it happens like now, sometimes my kids go but mom, I'm tired, I'm like doesn't give you an excuse to be mean to me. Yeah, if you're tired, go take care of yourself, go have a rest, go manage your, your state, because that's not my fault that you're tired and I understand that you're tired and I appreciate that you're tired. But I don't need to be the victim of your meanness to me because you're tired and so sometimes that means that we move ourselves from that. So I think this actually comes into the place of like. So what is mirror reflection, mirror work and self-reflection? What does that actually mean To me?
Jamy:
7:33
it means like exactly what it sounds like, just stopping for a minute to get curious about what's happening inside of me. That is creating the story that I'm reacting to inside of me. That is creating the story that I'm reacting to Because it's all story. Everything that we experience is our mind's attempt to make sense of what we see. There's actually an NLP training. There's a model of the way the mind works and it's a game changer when you understand what's happening at this millisecond, unconscious place, that our senses, our sight, our sound, our taste, our, you know, tactile we receive information and it goes into these. It checks the files in our brain and it distorts, deletes, or what's the other one? Distorts, deletes. I'm going to look Files. I can't remember Distorts deletes.
Keri:
8:26
I'm gonna look files I can't remember. Distorts these files?
Jamy:
8:28
no, distort delete, and I have like a picture distorts, deletes and generalizes. So it's like you know, it's like, well, I mean, like all people that do this, this just makes sense. We'll put them into this category to make it simple. So, by the way, hold on pause pause there.
Keri:
8:45
generalizing being your alls and your nevers, people that do this. This just makes sense. We'll put them into this category to make it simple. So, by the way, hold on pause, pause there. Generalizing being your alls and your nevers and your always like this is crucially huge in communication for yourself. Like there is no all, there is no always, there is no, never like, really watch your mindset and your energy and your in your words, out of your mouth, that say that, because when you start projecting that on someone, and your in your words, out of your mouth, that say that, because when you start projecting that on someone, you always do this. Do they really? You never do this, do they really? And that's a total like generalization to that will hurt all of you.
Jamy:
9:14
Yeah, I mean it literally is like putting blinders on and you're you're limiting your awareness to this very minute moment of them and calling that all of them, right.
Jamy:
9:26
So our minds do that immediately with the information that comes in, because we can only process so much information at any given moment, like there is a rate of information processing capacity of our minds, and so it takes that information and tries to make sense of it in the best way that can.
Jamy:
9:45
And it's according to our past experiences, what we've been taught, what we've seen as normal, real, the way it should be, all of these things, and as long as we are not stopping to check the automatic process that happened, verify it, is this accurate, is this, does this make sense, is this true? For me, we are just reacting at an unconscious level to things that we have, most of the time, unintentionally taken on. So, self-reflection, is that pause to ask and to check. Is this accurate? Sometimes it is. I'm not saying that, like, all reaction is bad, sometimes there is an accuracy to that, but I think we have a responsibility to stop and check, like what's happening in me that's creating this, this story, is it serving me, is it accurate, and how do I actually want to respond?
Keri:
10:43
Not, I think it's the physiological response.
Keri:
10:48
Yeah, I think it's really interesting how you say is it accurate? Something I have really paid attention to and this comes down to the distortion piece of this, of course but something I've been paying really a lot of attention to and I've been hearing so much in people is the stories we tell ourselves. And I hear people and like I know I used to do this like a lot, a lot, a lot Right, so I fully own this and it's totally detrimental, totally messy, and it would be like somebody does something and then I make up a whole story in my mind about what it means, Right. Well, that means like he did this thing, so that means that he doesn't like this and he's an asshole and he hates me and I'm this and blah, blah, blah. Whatever the thing is Right, and we create an entire story up in our mind about what it means, but it's like to them. They're like I didn't, I just said a word, I didn't even. Yeah, I was daydreaming.
Jamy:
11:34
What you're talking about.
Keri:
11:36
You're like really and actually.
Jamy:
11:39
I feel the opposite of whatever that story you just told me is.
Keri:
11:43
Right, but we're really upset about it and then we and then we go through the day, especially if this is your family or partners, people you're close with, then we go through the day in this reactive, like angry place with them and you're like it wasn't even true, like that was just something I made up in my mind. And I hear people say this often and I'm like how do you know? Like this is a question you can ask yourself. How do you know? Yeah, right, because if you haven't asked them, you don't. Actually and I'm saying this because I know a lot of people who are going to listen to this are very intuitive, psychic, spiritual human beings. I am too, jamie is too, and I'm like and there's times like, the truth is that oftentimes my intuition is pretty spot on and is pretty spot on, and when I talk to the person, a lot of times it's pretty spot on but the times that it's not, it's way off.
Jamy:
12:34
Well, and you?
Keri:
12:34
can't have an accurate, intuitive read and still have the wrong story, right, you know, like the story.
Jamy:
12:37
Our story may not. It's. It's almost like um I don't know what the word is it's like toxic or it is out of integrity to actually project our own story on someone else.
Jamy:
12:49
You know, I think the important thing too, carrie, to really acknowledge here is that it feels real. So what happens in the mind with that reaction is it creates a physiological response that then creates and informs our state. So it's like, no, I can feel this right, like my heart is racing or my whatever. And it's like, yeah, it feels really real and it is manifesting in your body. So we're not saying that like it's all fake and it's all whatever. This is a real response that's happening. But the reflection comes in curiosity and is this accurate and is this reaction appropriate for the actual thing that's happening in front of me?
Keri:
13:36
And can I pause?
Keri:
13:37
And it's also like, can I pause the reaction until I know the truth?
Keri:
13:41
Yes, right, like can I know that this is here and feel Okay, can I feel the feelings that are feeling inside of me Because I am having this trigger, I am having this reaction regardless of the story, regardless of them.
Keri:
13:50
Can I feel this be in this, can I let this be without a story playing in my mind? And or can I even just like, come to peace and like let it sit there, knowing that this is like a thing that's going on and until I've actually had the conversation with somebody which I think is a really big piece of this work is having the vulnerability to have the conversations instead of just letting it be a story in your mind that you then sometimes, in marriages and relationships and whatever these things, can go for months without saying anything and then you let that physical part of you be in your body and in that disconnect, and then more and more and more resentment and disconnect happens, when all you had to do was say, hey, I have this story that's happening in my mind, yeah, and I think this is what's going on.
Keri:
14:33
I don't know what's happening for you, but can we talk about it so that I can let this story go and let it leave your body? Yeah.
Jamy:
14:39
Exactly that happened to us this weekend. Kyle said something. I don't remember what I don't. It was something simple, you know, like why is this? Why is this sweater on the floor? Innocent question, right, I mean, it's a logical question.
Jamy:
14:57
But I felt like a like a annoyance with it and I had to stop because it's easy to be like, oh, he's judging me, he's whatever. You know, it was like this defensiveness immediately and I'm like, ah, whoa, that was a lot. And so I said I'm like that, the way you said that, um, this is what, how it registered in my system. And and it's beautiful, because I think Kyle and I've gotten to the point, like where he used to if I would express what's happening in me, he would then take it as accusation or defense or something he needs to fix. And we've gotten to this point where it's like, when I say I'm feeling this in response to that, I'm not expecting you to do anything different.
Jamy:
15:41
You may like, if it then resonates in you and you're like, oh yeah, that was there or was whatever right, you get to self reflect as well. But this, this, like just communicating that like ruffled my feathers a little bit. Let me just be with whatever that was, and he was like, oh, that's not at all what I was trying to do. I was just actually really curious if it like needed to go into the laundry room or do anything up or whatever, and so you know even just that recognition that like oh, I am like really ticked off, what the heck is happening, Right, but it is.
Keri:
16:15
But it's like and I think I love that you actually brought it that it was such a small, like really insignificant thing in this life, Right. But these are the places that, when we don't recognize that and we don't self-reflect, these are the places that resentment builds up over and over and over, Because if he did that over and over and over again and you never said anything, you just get more and more resentful and angry and he'd be like why are you angry with me? And he has no idea why. Why are you angry with me?
Jamy:
16:35
Because you asked me and my sweater was on the floor, don't you get it? Well, and I think I could have either gotten really pissy, you know like just picked it up, like it's like what's going on here? Because the question I always is what do I like, how do I want to be in my relationships, and is this action I'm taking facilitating that? Even if the pissed off was justified, even if he was judging me, even if he was nagging me, whatever, like that doesn't mean that my reaction has to match that. What am I creating? What do I want to do here? Because there's so many times it's like, yeah, justified, but is it still in alignment with you're trying to create? If it's not, you have the choice to do different and I think that's important to carry.
Keri:
17:22
Is this awareness that, because it's not normal to communicate this way, you may be met with defensiveness, with frustration with you know, like whatever and it takes a bit to like change the way, the norm of our communicating in our intimate relationships even, even still and you and I have talked about this, even in my experience of ending a marriage right, there have been many times where I could have gone the low road right, where I could have shown up to meet him where he's at. And I have chosen over and over again and I've had you and so many friends who've said to me Carrie, therapist, everybody, carrie, you really are choosing the high road. I'm like, I'm choosing to be myself, no matter how he shows up for it. And there's things that I have done that people like Carrie and I'm like I'm going to, like he moved yesterday and on Monday and I offered to help and people like are you kidding?
Keri:
18:13
And I'm like, no, because if it was me on the opposite side, I would like we're still like, they're still my kids and that's an alignment with the relationship you want to bring. That I choose Right. And I'm like, and I said, if that's what, if it was for me and I was the one moving, I would want him to say, hey, is there anything I can do to support you right now? Yeah, and the reality is he probably will not do that Right, and I have no expectation that he will, but I'm still going to choose to show up, yeah, as the person that I am, regardless of how he does. Yes, and that is, I think, a really important piece of this we can't change how the other person does show up, but we can show up in the highest integrity and alignment of ourselves.
Jamy:
18:51
So often we want to right, like, change their behavior, fix what they're doing, make them operate differently, and that is never our right, that is never our space. I mean, like, one of my highest values is sovereignty, is freedom within myself, but that requires us to then not base our actions and we'll probably talk this will be a whole nother episode about, like sovereignty and self-empowerment or, you know, self-sourcing, because that's exactly what you're doing. Most people will say, well, I'm gonna then change my behavior based on you. That's outsourcing, right, like, who do I wanna be? And then we do that right. So, and that requires self-reflection and knowing who the fuck you are in any given moment.
Keri:
19:40
So I want to take this too, because we've said here on the title it's self-reflection and mirror work, and I think there is a slight difference between the two. So self-reflection is what we just talked about and mirror work to me is, yes, it's self-reflection, but it's because I see in you something in me, right. So when we're in these places, I mean like maybe not the thing on the floor, but it could be like I. We were just talking before this. We were talking about my son, sam, and Sam has been since he was born. My mirror like I'm sure if you're a parent, you probably have one One of your kids is, you're definite, like you're like damn, I'm looking at myself and that's, and that is exactly.
Keri:
20:19
And even if you're not a parent, I'm sure there's somebody in your life, because we do. That is like really your mirror. You're like yeah.
Jamy:
20:25
And it's often the people that frustrate us the most, because they've shown us the things we don't want to see Right.
Keri:
20:30
Well, the reality is, everybody's a mirror. Every single person in your life is a mirror, but there's certain people that you come in and you're like man. It's not technical.
Jamy:
20:39
It's not literal, right, like so. Sometimes it's like no, I don't do that, but they're still showing you a story that you have around, that action Right. It's always a reflection. Sometimes it may not be a literal reflection, oftentimes it is, though it's like where am I doing that same thing just under a different title or a different story or a different?
Keri:
20:59
like I mean, come on, and I'm going to say I'm going to talk to parents here, because how many times does it come out of your mouth that you're like you are doing this thing and you're like if you actually stopped, in that moment you're like who's doing it? Who am I mad at? Oh, maybe I need to shut my mouth because maybe yes, they're doing it, but also who's showing them that?
Jamy:
21:19
Yes, yes, and intimate relationships too. I always say that kids like if, if mirror work is like self-reflecting, then kids are like that 10 X, like brightly lit mirror where you can see all the things you don't want to see.
Keri:
21:32
A hundred percent, A hundred percent and when you can. Actually, I think this is so powerful in parenting, though, because I see a lot of people who don't own this right Like you go and you do that thing right Cause we're all parents, we're all human, we're all like you know, and shit happens and we go and we say oh God, you're just, you're doing this, and then in those moments, oftentimes, if you hear your voice in your head, you probably can't actually think to yourself oh yeah, that's, I do that too.
Jamy:
21:54
Yeah, just in a different way.
Keri:
21:56
The gift that you could give your kid is to actually then go afterward and go. Hmm, you know what Sometimes I say to my kids afterwards, after I've had my moment to calm my butt down, when I'm right, is go, you know what. I said that to you, but also, I do that too, and do that too, and I'm sorry, you know like how can we both do that better? Yeah, right, and then own your stuff with them, because then it makes you human too, yeah, and it makes them feel like wait, I'm not in trouble for this. No, because we're both doing it. You're not a bad person for it.
Jamy:
22:22
Right, and this is the same with like intimate relationships, with friendships. So I used to do this with my husband all the time Like I would feel abandonment and the question was never like where is he abandoning me? It's like where am I abandoning myself?
Keri:
22:34
Oh my God. Yes, let's talk about my dating you guys. Seriously. Dating has been like the biggest mirror for me and I swear to God like holy moly has it been a mirror reflection every time I meet somebody and I'm abandoned, which has happened many times and you know, Jay Yep, I've been there on the journey with you, big, sistering from afar.
Keri:
22:56
I'm like okay, where am I abandoning myself still? Where am I still not taking care of myself? Where am I Like and every time it would happen, I could be upset by it. But the first thing I would look back at is like, where are you still doing that to yourself?
Jamy:
23:14
That you're attracting somebody who's showing you abandonment still, and it's so easy to get mad and technically they did ghost you, they did abandon right, but it's not their obligation to meet your needs. So it is shitty behavior and I would love to see that change as well. But ultimately, continuing to focus on them is not going to serve you. You is not going to help you evolve and change the way that you're relating to people. They were just passing ships, you know, and you can continue to be like pissed at that ship that's so far down the road that it doesn't even know you remember you exist and you're still holding on to it. It's like what does this show you? What do you get to learn from this? How can this shitty experience, or whatever it is, help you to learn, to evolve, to do something better, to see yourself differently, whatever it is?
Keri:
24:00
Yeah. So actually I want to speak to that in the way that it's like, when that kind of stuff happens and when you see the mirror, I think the next piece to like really look at is then, when the mirror is shown to you, what are the things that you need to do in your life to make that shift? So when I kept getting abandoned, I was like, okay, well, how do I hold myself? And like, honest to God, these last two years I've learned so much about holding myself, loving myself through it. And like, where am I abandoning myself? Okay, well, I was abandoning myself in my health.
Keri:
24:24
I was abandoning myself in, you know, some of the ways that I was looking after myself. I'm like so how can I expect somebody else to care for me if I'm not willing to do that for me? Right, and so anytime someone would abandon, it was like, okay, well, where do you need to show up for yourself even more? And then immediately, like Jamie Winnard, immediately, I would be like, okay, so now I need to go do this for myself. And that's how things have changed. It wasn't because I just looked at it and went, oh, or he's abandoning me, I'm abandoning myself. And then kept going. Yeah, I saw a meme the other day.
Jamy:
24:52
That said, awareness is awakening, but then action to change is evolution. So just being aware that it's there is great and it is the first step, though it is not, it is not the thing, it is not the finish line. It is the first step in making change. You know, and I love too how you ask, because I think that a lot of people will say is that me or isn't that me? And it's like this yes or no? Versus where is that me? Where does that easy to go like, well, I don't do that, so that's not a mirror for me and that's that shuts off any potential to see what's outside of your awareness. Versus if I see it, it's, it's reflecting. I mean, like I can't see it if it doesn't exist in my reality, right Like it just wouldn't register.
Jamy:
25:48
So when we see it, it's it's ho, else, you know. So it's like where, what is this showing me? Where is this happening? It's a way different way to self-reflect and to use mirror work.
Keri:
25:59
And it really is. Like I mean you've said it is curiosity and the fact that it's like, just get curious, yeah Right, like don't get upset. I mean you can be upset, but like it's really about like, okay, just get curious, like, hey, what's here? Let's notice, like what's around, what could it be? Where you know, instead of shutting down, because the second you shut down you won't get the answer and you won't be able to evolve, and then you'll continue to place and I think this is a really important thing and I we probably need to do a whole episode on this too which is, like, when we talk about these relationships that are toxic relationships, a lot of people will say the quote unquote victim, right, the quote unquote victim, and I'm going to go all the way down into like, really, like, really violently unhealthy relationships, right.
Keri:
26:42
And they'll say, well, it's not the victim's fault, well, if you don't take responsibility for your part for not having boundaries and all these things and I really do think we need to do have a conversation about this then you'll continue to repeat the pattern. So, whilst it might not be your fault that this person is not kind to you, right, you still allowed for it. And if you don't start to have this reflection and then start to have this curiosity of like okay, so if I did have some responsibility in this, if I was part of this, what was my part? That's where you can start to make the changes, and it doesn't mean it's all your fault, like people have said to me, like I take so much responsibility and some people will go Carrie you over, take responsibility and I'm like the only way that I can change is by taking responsibility.
Jamy:
27:27
But there's a difference between victimhood and victim mentality. Right Like that, and I think that that's an important distinction is that somebody that is in trauma, that is in survival mode, may not have access to the ability to self-reflect because they're literally just trying to. Not totally right.
Jamy:
27:44
Like so there is a distinction between victimhood, like being a victim to someone else's actions, and then that in the healing process, there is the option, there is the capacity to choose that like victim mentality of how do I change my own perspective of self and my awareness of the way the world works, to love and value and heal whatever is in me that's causing, like the receptivity or the availability to this experience.
Keri:
28:21
Yes, you know there's a lot of truth to what you're saying.
Jamy:
28:23
Yeah To like to distinguish.
Keri:
28:25
Because when I, when I was straight out of the marriage, there's like there is a lot of not being able to self-reflect the way that I can now, because it I was in such survival mode.
Jamy:
28:33
Yeah, and the flip side of that, too, is like, um, being able to say fuck you, like, don't over.
Jamy:
28:40
We can overtake responsibility and excuse away bad behavior, because we also are not in balance and loving ourselves enough to say I'm just not available for this, you know.
Jamy:
28:52
So there's a balance and there is a spectrum, and you will find yourself at every point along it, and I think another topic that we'll have to go into deeper is that the reason that we don't want to self-reflect, the reason that we don't want to ask the question and stay curious, is rooted in shame. Like it's the self-judgment that we should know better, that we, you know, messed it up, that we got it wrong. And it's like removing this idea of right and wrong, that there is a right choice, there is a wrong choice, there was a right or a wrong choice. There just is what is right. There's no right or wrong to it. Like you could have made a different choice somewhere along the road, you'd still be facing the confrontation of shame and things gone bad and whatever. Just be different things. It's that's life, that is the human experience, and so we'll, you know we'll, I'm sure, do a whole episode on shame and what that is, and how it functions and how to navigate it.
Keri:
29:47
What we're telling you all beautiful souls who are listening to this first episode, is we got a lot to talk about, a lot, a lot. We're just going to start to like rambling the things here, I know, but like keep hanging with us, because there's going to be a lot of really amazing conversations that happen on this show as we continue. So, to wrap this up, I know that you have some steps over there that can help people get real clear on this. Yeah, so the first one was awareness. I know you already started into them, so can you tell the I think you had three steps of self-reflection so that you guys can have some real clarity around this.
Jamy:
30:21
Yes, so the first step actually is pausing, like just recognizing that there is kind of this automatic pathway that happens and it's unconscious, and when you can really get clear with yourself and commit to a pause, like, even if it's accurate, a pause doesn't hurt, you know. I mean, of course, barring you're in like actual danger, but that's actually a different thing, right? We're talking about emotional reactivity to life. Pause for just a moment and give yourself the space to feel the feels, to be curious, to gain awareness. Without a pause, you are merely reacting to inner stories being projected outside of you.
Keri:
31:05
Yes.
Jamy:
31:05
The second step would be emotional and somatic awareness, so becoming aware of what is moving. The somatic awareness is like literal sensations in your body, like for me. It can be like a tightness in the chest, or my head is spinning or my gut is, you know, tight, or whatever it is. There's an ache in my knee. I don't like pay attention to your body and the sensations that are moving, because oftentimes those sensations can actually be revealing something completely not connected to the thing that triggered you um, or it doesn't have like an honest to god.
Keri:
31:39
Sometimes it's not related to anything. It's just that you are like if we get into like um technical, it's nervous, like it can be a nervous system.
Keri:
31:49
You had a really busy day and your nervous system is on total overload and you have not had a chance to regulate your nervous system. And like, the more more that I've gotten into this, the more that I can look at my kids and sometimes I can say, hey guys, I've had a busy day, my nervous system is is at max right now. So if you push, I don't have it in me to like I might, I might actually get like a trigger here. I might react. It's not you.
Keri:
32:16
So please just be patient with me, because I am at a capacity and in those moments if I actually have because usually my life is not so busy that I can't stop but sometimes, right, sometimes life is just like hey, and so I don't have five minutes, and so I'm like you guys, or it's something that like I'm so full that it's like I'm going to take 20 minutes, going to have to unravel this, right, yeah, and I don't have that 20 minutes right now. I'm going to do my best. So let's all just be patient with each other, right, we have that communication too.
Keri:
32:40
Like my kids communicate when they're overstimulated as well, right, Like I'm, I'm at my, I'm at capacity, I'm at capacity. Thank God that we have kids that can say it. Right, I can then say okay, just go, go, take your 20 minutes, like whatever we had to do all at capacity. Sometimes those are the moments that it's like let's just stop everything, yeah.
Jamy:
33:02
And that models, because my kids do the same for me. When I say I'm max, they're like okay, yeah.
Keri:
33:08
Like Sam the other day looked at me. I didn't even have to say anything, he just looked at me. He's like mom, you need to go breathe. And I'm like, okay. He's like I'm not going to bed until you walk into your bedroom and start breathing.
Jamy:
33:25
I'm like, okay, kid, and he was right.
Keri:
33:25
You could see it, cause our kids know this, they can feel us, they know it, our our partners know this Right, and so when we give ourselves those five minutes, then I can come back and go. Okay, I'm here for you, you know. And so these are the things that we can also do. To look at like this is nothing to do with a trigger, it's just like, literally, our bodies are, it's the full spectrum.
Jamy:
33:40
It can literally be, yeah, like nervous system capacity and, and it can be, um, I mean, I've had experiences where, like it, you know, like the sweater on the floor actually brings up like deep trauma from my childhood, you know. So it's, it's, it's this full range, but without stopping and just like tapping in, you know, like what's happening here. And then the emotion, like so sometimes it's easier for people to label an emotion, like I think that the somatics are the deeper reflection, but oftentimes we want to make logical sense of it and the emotional label we give, a sensation that's happening in our nervous system, can help us decipher what's happening. And then, also, going under that right, like, so I feel angry, okay, but what's under the anger? Well, actually that's fear, what's under that? Well, what's sadness, right. So it's like you can, you can keep digging deeper to what is the actual emotion that's happening. So that's that's.
Jamy:
34:42
The second step is, like this awareness, become become curious and aware of what's going on. And then the third is the exploration of the unknown, because the emotional and the somatic awareness is what we are consciously aware of. So then it's like, then stepping into what am I unaware of, what do I not, yet what is outside of my awareness that's impacting this situation, and that's that's my process, like and I do it, I mean like anytime. Like like that trigger with Kyle, I mean like it was busy, it's a clip season, it's it. I mean like anytime, like that trigger with Kyle, I mean like it was busy, it's eclipse season, it's Mercury, you know, like all these, whatever's happening, I was totally pissy about a really simple thing, you know.
Jamy:
35:24
So it's like I could have gone into conflict, I could have ignored him and given him the cold shoulder for the rest of the day, whatever right. But like I stopped, like what the heck is happening here? And it gets easier to do too because, like you are in that like intensity of the moment, like, oh my god, I feel pissed and you have, that's the pause. Like okay, I do feel that my nervous system is giving me that message, but what's actually happening here? So it's important work and and imagine if people every day, at the grocery store, at the bank, in traffic, like did this, like took some self responsibility for their state and their interpretation of the world around them, like the world would be different.
Keri:
36:07
Very different place, yeah.
Jamy:
36:10
It's the one I want to live in, so that's why we're here. Why we're here. I actually think that's a really great place to live in.
Keri:
36:14
So that's why we're here, why we're here.
Keri:
36:16
I actually think that's a really great place to wrap it, because I think this pretty much sums it up Like if we all took self-responsibility and looked in the mirror and went, hey, let's bring this back to ourselves, we would stop. I know for me, when I and you mentioned NLP, when I did my NLP training, neurolinguistic programming training my God, jamie, it was 19 years ago, holy moly, wow, oh God. I remember, because one of the things is about self-responsibility in there, and I remember saying at the time, if everybody took self-responsibility, we would have peace on this planet.
Keri:
36:46
And it has driven me every single day of my life and in this work ever since then is to take this peace and say if every single person took self-responsibility for themselves, there would be no reason to blame another, human Right Would be no reason to project your crap, there would be no reason for war, there would be no reason for any of the fighting that we have, because you own your stuff and you can show up to another person and say hey, I'm feeling this way, yeah, and this is, this is blah, blah, blah.
Jamy:
37:14
Yeah, then there's no blame, there's no any of that, and it doesn't mean you're going to be besties with everybody. It will also mean that your paths will diverge because you have nothing in common, but you don't have to go attack you know, like you don't have to go on the defensive.
Keri:
37:25
So yes, yeah so thank you all for listening. Let this be this foundation for an invitation into the way that you show up for your life and as we carry through this podcast we're going to say some shit that's going to trigger you as you journey with us. I am sure if you, if you are here and you know us, you will be triggered at some point in time, if you haven't already been triggered yet. So what we ask is that you look at yourself and you say where are these places in me that are triggering you?
Keri:
37:58
Because that's where the healing, that's the healing, and that's what we want to bring to the show, to the world, and to bring peace, prosperity, pleasure, joy, all the wonderful things in abundance into this world. So thanks for joining us for our first episode. We look forward to many, many more.
Jamy:
38:19
If you enjoyed this show, let us know. We're all about authentic connections, so come chat with us on social media or email. Links are listed in the show notes.
Keri:
38:28
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform and share the magic on your socials.
0:01
Welcome to Redefining Normal. Join us as we question conventional thinking and talk about the courage it takes to create and live a deliciously vibrant life.
Jamy:
0:10
This podcast is for people who know there's a better way to do life and love how we show up in connection to others our kids, our partners, our business and, beyond that, our relationship with money, vitality and, more than anything, ourselves.
Keri:
0:26
We're two shamelessly unapologetic moms choosing to experience the fullness of life.
Jamy:
0:32
And we're collapsing the conditioning that says you can't live a life of pleasure, peace and abundance in the midst of the mundane of life, responsibilities, work and kids.
Keri:
0:43
Thank you for listening in. Let's do this. Hello and welcome to Redefining Normal, the first episode of this well-long-awaited podcast. With myself, keri Lynn and Jamie Miranda, we are so excited to have you here listening in, and today we are dropping into a really important foundational principle that will set you guys up for listening to the rest of this show as the years carry on, and we are talking today about mirror work and we'll help you in your relational dynamics with everyone in your life as well.
Jamy:
1:19
Absolutely.
Keri:
1:21
Absolutely. Today we're talking about mirror work and self-reflection, so welcome. Hey, jayme, do you want to start with talking about what is the normal, the normal of what people really start to like? What we want to start with you, what we're hoping to experience on this show, is we're going to start to talk about like, what is the normal and what is? How can we redefine normal? Right, and so can we just start talking about like, what does normal look like when we start to have interaction in relationships? Um, that tends to be the place where I will say so many relationships go triggered, yucky, messy and hurtful Mm-hmm.
Jamy:
2:05
Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I think that what's normal right now is to be operating from a place of unconscious trigger. Most people don't understand how the mind works, how our brain and our physiological responses happen like in a millisecond, based on all of the things that have happened to us in the past. It like makes this quick assessment judgment, it deletes information, it distorts information and it creates a picture that makes sense to our current reference points, and so what we have is a lot of people projecting, is what it's called, is like.
Jamy:
2:49
This is what I see as reality and I'm going to place it on you and operate like it is, in fact, your reality as well, without stopping to assess, to wonder what's causing this. Is this actually true? Is this true for this other person that I'm interacting with? Yeah, so there's just a lot of trigger is the word, and I know trigger is kind of a sensitive word. When I say trigger, I'm talking about a reactive, like an unconscious reaction to something that's happening in front of you, without first stopping to assess if it's actually true or not. Yeah, and so we have people not having relationships or interacting with another person, but actually a projection from themselves of that other person.
Keri:
3:48
Yeah, the thing that comes to me when you say that, the word that comes to me is wounded, right, like we have these inner wounds that happen because maybe we were hurt by a friend or a lover or a partner or a mother or a father in the past.
Keri:
4:00
And we take that wound and we go, oh my God, well, you don't even realize you're coming from that woundedness and you're like well, sometime in the past this person cheated on me or abandoned me or wasn't there when I needed them, or whatever. And so then you take that and you project that energy onto every other relationship. You expect the same experience, or you come from the wounded place, and so when they do something, the reaction it's a reaction. It's like that's why it's the trigger, right, it's the reaction. And so then we go into well, this is how I've got to go and respond because he's going to do this or she's going to do this because of my experience in the past. And then we put the projection being, then we put that all over them, whether that's true for them or not, right, exactly Right. So that can lead to us blaming people, projecting all of our crap over people and reacting to people in a way that's totally unnecessary and oftentimes hurtful to the other person.
Jamy:
4:58
Yeah, and I think when you dig into that even more, it can be a hurt that you consciously remember. It can also be a hurt that is completely like you were two and your mom said get out of the room right now in whatever was happening in her life right, but so it anchors into your awareness according to a certain story. So it can even exist outside of anything. You consciously remember creating these reactions. And I think, on an even smaller scale, it can be beyond woundedness to something that's just happening in another area of life, like I know.
Jamy:
5:36
The example that I had in my workbook last night was about I come home and I'm feeling really short and snippy with people. You know my kid did something that they always do, but this time it's frustrating and I can react like it's them. It's the thing they did that pissed me off. But if I can stop for a minute and be like well, you know, like what is the sensation? What's happening? I recognize I'm frustrated because something didn't go right at work today. That's not my kid's fault. Do you know what I mean? So it's like it's even in these like minute things that we project what's happening inside of us onto everybody around us If we can't stop and self-reflect and be a little bit aware of what might be happening outside of our awareness? This is the hard part. Is people like, oh, I'm not doing that, and the second that you decide it is or isn't happening, you've shut the door to like curiosity to see what you might not be aware of Curiosity is so good.
Keri:
6:33
I saw this a lot. I saw this a lot, for example, with my ex around being tired. He was a lot tired, a lot Right and so tired, and I'm saying this because I know that he's not alone in this. I've done this, we've all done this, like we're all human, right? Yeah and um. And so then people who don't take the responsibility, tired becomes an excuse to be unkind to people.
Keri:
6:55
yeah, well, I'm just cranky, I'm grumpy and, like it happens like now, sometimes my kids go but mom, I'm tired, I'm like doesn't give you an excuse to be mean to me. Yeah, if you're tired, go take care of yourself, go have a rest, go manage your, your state, because that's not my fault that you're tired and I understand that you're tired and I appreciate that you're tired. But I don't need to be the victim of your meanness to me because you're tired and so sometimes that means that we move ourselves from that. So I think this actually comes into the place of like. So what is mirror reflection, mirror work and self-reflection? What does that actually mean To me?
Jamy:
7:33
it means like exactly what it sounds like, just stopping for a minute to get curious about what's happening inside of me. That is creating the story that I'm reacting to inside of me. That is creating the story that I'm reacting to Because it's all story. Everything that we experience is our mind's attempt to make sense of what we see. There's actually an NLP training. There's a model of the way the mind works and it's a game changer when you understand what's happening at this millisecond, unconscious place, that our senses, our sight, our sound, our taste, our, you know, tactile we receive information and it goes into these. It checks the files in our brain and it distorts, deletes, or what's the other one? Distorts, deletes. I'm going to look Files. I can't remember Distorts deletes.
Keri:
8:26
I'm gonna look files I can't remember. Distorts these files?
Jamy:
8:28
no, distort delete, and I have like a picture distorts, deletes and generalizes. So it's like you know, it's like, well, I mean, like all people that do this, this just makes sense. We'll put them into this category to make it simple. So, by the way, hold on pause pause there.
Keri:
8:45
generalizing being your alls and your nevers, people that do this. This just makes sense. We'll put them into this category to make it simple. So, by the way, hold on pause, pause there. Generalizing being your alls and your nevers and your always like this is crucially huge in communication for yourself. Like there is no all, there is no always, there is no, never like, really watch your mindset and your energy and your in your words, out of your mouth, that say that, because when you start projecting that on someone, and your in your words, out of your mouth, that say that, because when you start projecting that on someone, you always do this. Do they really? You never do this, do they really? And that's a total like generalization to that will hurt all of you.
Jamy:
9:14
Yeah, I mean it literally is like putting blinders on and you're you're limiting your awareness to this very minute moment of them and calling that all of them, right.
Jamy:
9:26
So our minds do that immediately with the information that comes in, because we can only process so much information at any given moment, like there is a rate of information processing capacity of our minds, and so it takes that information and tries to make sense of it in the best way that can.
Jamy:
9:45
And it's according to our past experiences, what we've been taught, what we've seen as normal, real, the way it should be, all of these things, and as long as we are not stopping to check the automatic process that happened, verify it, is this accurate, is this, does this make sense, is this true? For me, we are just reacting at an unconscious level to things that we have, most of the time, unintentionally taken on. So, self-reflection, is that pause to ask and to check. Is this accurate? Sometimes it is. I'm not saying that, like, all reaction is bad, sometimes there is an accuracy to that, but I think we have a responsibility to stop and check, like what's happening in me that's creating this, this story, is it serving me, is it accurate, and how do I actually want to respond?
Keri:
10:43
Not, I think it's the physiological response.
Keri:
10:48
Yeah, I think it's really interesting how you say is it accurate? Something I have really paid attention to and this comes down to the distortion piece of this, of course but something I've been paying really a lot of attention to and I've been hearing so much in people is the stories we tell ourselves. And I hear people and like I know I used to do this like a lot, a lot, a lot Right, so I fully own this and it's totally detrimental, totally messy, and it would be like somebody does something and then I make up a whole story in my mind about what it means, Right. Well, that means like he did this thing, so that means that he doesn't like this and he's an asshole and he hates me and I'm this and blah, blah, blah. Whatever the thing is Right, and we create an entire story up in our mind about what it means, but it's like to them. They're like I didn't, I just said a word, I didn't even. Yeah, I was daydreaming.
Jamy:
11:34
What you're talking about.
Keri:
11:36
You're like really and actually.
Jamy:
11:39
I feel the opposite of whatever that story you just told me is.
Keri:
11:43
Right, but we're really upset about it and then we and then we go through the day, especially if this is your family or partners, people you're close with, then we go through the day in this reactive, like angry place with them and you're like it wasn't even true, like that was just something I made up in my mind. And I hear people say this often and I'm like how do you know? Like this is a question you can ask yourself. How do you know? Yeah, right, because if you haven't asked them, you don't. Actually and I'm saying this because I know a lot of people who are going to listen to this are very intuitive, psychic, spiritual human beings. I am too, jamie is too, and I'm like and there's times like, the truth is that oftentimes my intuition is pretty spot on and is pretty spot on, and when I talk to the person, a lot of times it's pretty spot on but the times that it's not, it's way off.
Jamy:
12:34
Well, and you?
Keri:
12:34
can't have an accurate, intuitive read and still have the wrong story, right, you know, like the story.
Jamy:
12:37
Our story may not. It's. It's almost like um I don't know what the word is it's like toxic or it is out of integrity to actually project our own story on someone else.
Jamy:
12:49
You know, I think the important thing too, carrie, to really acknowledge here is that it feels real. So what happens in the mind with that reaction is it creates a physiological response that then creates and informs our state. So it's like, no, I can feel this right, like my heart is racing or my whatever. And it's like, yeah, it feels really real and it is manifesting in your body. So we're not saying that like it's all fake and it's all whatever. This is a real response that's happening. But the reflection comes in curiosity and is this accurate and is this reaction appropriate for the actual thing that's happening in front of me?
Keri:
13:36
And can I pause?
Keri:
13:37
And it's also like, can I pause the reaction until I know the truth?
Keri:
13:41
Yes, right, like can I know that this is here and feel Okay, can I feel the feelings that are feeling inside of me Because I am having this trigger, I am having this reaction regardless of the story, regardless of them.
Keri:
13:50
Can I feel this be in this, can I let this be without a story playing in my mind? And or can I even just like, come to peace and like let it sit there, knowing that this is like a thing that's going on and until I've actually had the conversation with somebody which I think is a really big piece of this work is having the vulnerability to have the conversations instead of just letting it be a story in your mind that you then sometimes, in marriages and relationships and whatever these things, can go for months without saying anything and then you let that physical part of you be in your body and in that disconnect, and then more and more and more resentment and disconnect happens, when all you had to do was say, hey, I have this story that's happening in my mind, yeah, and I think this is what's going on.
Keri:
14:33
I don't know what's happening for you, but can we talk about it so that I can let this story go and let it leave your body? Yeah.
Jamy:
14:39
Exactly that happened to us this weekend. Kyle said something. I don't remember what I don't. It was something simple, you know, like why is this? Why is this sweater on the floor? Innocent question, right, I mean, it's a logical question.
Jamy:
14:57
But I felt like a like a annoyance with it and I had to stop because it's easy to be like, oh, he's judging me, he's whatever. You know, it was like this defensiveness immediately and I'm like, ah, whoa, that was a lot. And so I said I'm like that, the way you said that, um, this is what, how it registered in my system. And and it's beautiful, because I think Kyle and I've gotten to the point, like where he used to if I would express what's happening in me, he would then take it as accusation or defense or something he needs to fix. And we've gotten to this point where it's like, when I say I'm feeling this in response to that, I'm not expecting you to do anything different.
Jamy:
15:41
You may like, if it then resonates in you and you're like, oh yeah, that was there or was whatever right, you get to self reflect as well. But this, this, like just communicating that like ruffled my feathers a little bit. Let me just be with whatever that was, and he was like, oh, that's not at all what I was trying to do. I was just actually really curious if it like needed to go into the laundry room or do anything up or whatever, and so you know even just that recognition that like oh, I am like really ticked off, what the heck is happening, Right, but it is.
Keri:
16:15
But it's like and I think I love that you actually brought it that it was such a small, like really insignificant thing in this life, Right. But these are the places that, when we don't recognize that and we don't self-reflect, these are the places that resentment builds up over and over and over, Because if he did that over and over and over again and you never said anything, you just get more and more resentful and angry and he'd be like why are you angry with me? And he has no idea why. Why are you angry with me?
Jamy:
16:35
Because you asked me and my sweater was on the floor, don't you get it? Well, and I think I could have either gotten really pissy, you know like just picked it up, like it's like what's going on here? Because the question I always is what do I like, how do I want to be in my relationships, and is this action I'm taking facilitating that? Even if the pissed off was justified, even if he was judging me, even if he was nagging me, whatever, like that doesn't mean that my reaction has to match that. What am I creating? What do I want to do here? Because there's so many times it's like, yeah, justified, but is it still in alignment with you're trying to create? If it's not, you have the choice to do different and I think that's important to carry.
Keri:
17:22
Is this awareness that, because it's not normal to communicate this way, you may be met with defensiveness, with frustration with you know, like whatever and it takes a bit to like change the way, the norm of our communicating in our intimate relationships even, even still and you and I have talked about this, even in my experience of ending a marriage right, there have been many times where I could have gone the low road right, where I could have shown up to meet him where he's at. And I have chosen over and over again and I've had you and so many friends who've said to me Carrie, therapist, everybody, carrie, you really are choosing the high road. I'm like, I'm choosing to be myself, no matter how he shows up for it. And there's things that I have done that people like Carrie and I'm like I'm going to, like he moved yesterday and on Monday and I offered to help and people like are you kidding?
Keri:
18:13
And I'm like, no, because if it was me on the opposite side, I would like we're still like, they're still my kids and that's an alignment with the relationship you want to bring. That I choose Right. And I'm like, and I said, if that's what, if it was for me and I was the one moving, I would want him to say, hey, is there anything I can do to support you right now? Yeah, and the reality is he probably will not do that Right, and I have no expectation that he will, but I'm still going to choose to show up, yeah, as the person that I am, regardless of how he does. Yes, and that is, I think, a really important piece of this we can't change how the other person does show up, but we can show up in the highest integrity and alignment of ourselves.
Jamy:
18:51
So often we want to right, like, change their behavior, fix what they're doing, make them operate differently, and that is never our right, that is never our space. I mean, like, one of my highest values is sovereignty, is freedom within myself, but that requires us to then not base our actions and we'll probably talk this will be a whole nother episode about, like sovereignty and self-empowerment or, you know, self-sourcing, because that's exactly what you're doing. Most people will say, well, I'm gonna then change my behavior based on you. That's outsourcing, right, like, who do I wanna be? And then we do that right. So, and that requires self-reflection and knowing who the fuck you are in any given moment.
Keri:
19:40
So I want to take this too, because we've said here on the title it's self-reflection and mirror work, and I think there is a slight difference between the two. So self-reflection is what we just talked about and mirror work to me is, yes, it's self-reflection, but it's because I see in you something in me, right. So when we're in these places, I mean like maybe not the thing on the floor, but it could be like I. We were just talking before this. We were talking about my son, sam, and Sam has been since he was born. My mirror like I'm sure if you're a parent, you probably have one One of your kids is, you're definite, like you're like damn, I'm looking at myself and that's, and that is exactly.
Keri:
20:19
And even if you're not a parent, I'm sure there's somebody in your life, because we do. That is like really your mirror. You're like yeah.
Jamy:
20:25
And it's often the people that frustrate us the most, because they've shown us the things we don't want to see Right.
Keri:
20:30
Well, the reality is, everybody's a mirror. Every single person in your life is a mirror, but there's certain people that you come in and you're like man. It's not technical.
Jamy:
20:39
It's not literal, right, like so. Sometimes it's like no, I don't do that, but they're still showing you a story that you have around, that action Right. It's always a reflection. Sometimes it may not be a literal reflection, oftentimes it is, though it's like where am I doing that same thing just under a different title or a different story or a different?
Keri:
20:59
like I mean, come on, and I'm going to say I'm going to talk to parents here, because how many times does it come out of your mouth that you're like you are doing this thing and you're like if you actually stopped, in that moment you're like who's doing it? Who am I mad at? Oh, maybe I need to shut my mouth because maybe yes, they're doing it, but also who's showing them that?
Jamy:
21:19
Yes, yes, and intimate relationships too. I always say that kids like if, if mirror work is like self-reflecting, then kids are like that 10 X, like brightly lit mirror where you can see all the things you don't want to see.
Keri:
21:32
A hundred percent, A hundred percent and when you can. Actually, I think this is so powerful in parenting, though, because I see a lot of people who don't own this right Like you go and you do that thing right Cause we're all parents, we're all human, we're all like you know, and shit happens and we go and we say oh God, you're just, you're doing this, and then in those moments, oftentimes, if you hear your voice in your head, you probably can't actually think to yourself oh yeah, that's, I do that too.
Jamy:
21:54
Yeah, just in a different way.
Keri:
21:56
The gift that you could give your kid is to actually then go afterward and go. Hmm, you know what Sometimes I say to my kids afterwards, after I've had my moment to calm my butt down, when I'm right, is go, you know what. I said that to you, but also, I do that too, and do that too, and I'm sorry, you know like how can we both do that better? Yeah, right, and then own your stuff with them, because then it makes you human too, yeah, and it makes them feel like wait, I'm not in trouble for this. No, because we're both doing it. You're not a bad person for it.
Jamy:
22:22
Right, and this is the same with like intimate relationships, with friendships. So I used to do this with my husband all the time Like I would feel abandonment and the question was never like where is he abandoning me? It's like where am I abandoning myself?
Keri:
22:34
Oh my God. Yes, let's talk about my dating you guys. Seriously. Dating has been like the biggest mirror for me and I swear to God like holy moly has it been a mirror reflection every time I meet somebody and I'm abandoned, which has happened many times and you know, Jay Yep, I've been there on the journey with you, big, sistering from afar.
Keri:
22:56
I'm like okay, where am I abandoning myself still? Where am I still not taking care of myself? Where am I Like and every time it would happen, I could be upset by it. But the first thing I would look back at is like, where are you still doing that to yourself?
Jamy:
23:14
That you're attracting somebody who's showing you abandonment still, and it's so easy to get mad and technically they did ghost you, they did abandon right, but it's not their obligation to meet your needs. So it is shitty behavior and I would love to see that change as well. But ultimately, continuing to focus on them is not going to serve you. You is not going to help you evolve and change the way that you're relating to people. They were just passing ships, you know, and you can continue to be like pissed at that ship that's so far down the road that it doesn't even know you remember you exist and you're still holding on to it. It's like what does this show you? What do you get to learn from this? How can this shitty experience, or whatever it is, help you to learn, to evolve, to do something better, to see yourself differently, whatever it is?
Keri:
24:00
Yeah. So actually I want to speak to that in the way that it's like, when that kind of stuff happens and when you see the mirror, I think the next piece to like really look at is then, when the mirror is shown to you, what are the things that you need to do in your life to make that shift? So when I kept getting abandoned, I was like, okay, well, how do I hold myself? And like, honest to God, these last two years I've learned so much about holding myself, loving myself through it. And like, where am I abandoning myself? Okay, well, I was abandoning myself in my health.
Keri:
24:24
I was abandoning myself in, you know, some of the ways that I was looking after myself. I'm like so how can I expect somebody else to care for me if I'm not willing to do that for me? Right, and so anytime someone would abandon, it was like, okay, well, where do you need to show up for yourself even more? And then immediately, like Jamie Winnard, immediately, I would be like, okay, so now I need to go do this for myself. And that's how things have changed. It wasn't because I just looked at it and went, oh, or he's abandoning me, I'm abandoning myself. And then kept going. Yeah, I saw a meme the other day.
Jamy:
24:52
That said, awareness is awakening, but then action to change is evolution. So just being aware that it's there is great and it is the first step, though it is not, it is not the thing, it is not the finish line. It is the first step in making change. You know, and I love too how you ask, because I think that a lot of people will say is that me or isn't that me? And it's like this yes or no? Versus where is that me? Where does that easy to go like, well, I don't do that, so that's not a mirror for me and that's that shuts off any potential to see what's outside of your awareness. Versus if I see it, it's, it's reflecting. I mean, like I can't see it if it doesn't exist in my reality, right Like it just wouldn't register.
Jamy:
25:48
So when we see it, it's it's ho, else, you know. So it's like where, what is this showing me? Where is this happening? It's a way different way to self-reflect and to use mirror work.
Keri:
25:59
And it really is. Like I mean you've said it is curiosity and the fact that it's like, just get curious, yeah Right, like don't get upset. I mean you can be upset, but like it's really about like, okay, just get curious, like, hey, what's here? Let's notice, like what's around, what could it be? Where you know, instead of shutting down, because the second you shut down you won't get the answer and you won't be able to evolve, and then you'll continue to place and I think this is a really important thing and I we probably need to do a whole episode on this too which is, like, when we talk about these relationships that are toxic relationships, a lot of people will say the quote unquote victim, right, the quote unquote victim, and I'm going to go all the way down into like, really, like, really violently unhealthy relationships, right.
Keri:
26:42
And they'll say, well, it's not the victim's fault, well, if you don't take responsibility for your part for not having boundaries and all these things and I really do think we need to do have a conversation about this then you'll continue to repeat the pattern. So, whilst it might not be your fault that this person is not kind to you, right, you still allowed for it. And if you don't start to have this reflection and then start to have this curiosity of like okay, so if I did have some responsibility in this, if I was part of this, what was my part? That's where you can start to make the changes, and it doesn't mean it's all your fault, like people have said to me, like I take so much responsibility and some people will go Carrie you over, take responsibility and I'm like the only way that I can change is by taking responsibility.
Jamy:
27:27
But there's a difference between victimhood and victim mentality. Right Like that, and I think that that's an important distinction is that somebody that is in trauma, that is in survival mode, may not have access to the ability to self-reflect because they're literally just trying to. Not totally right.
Jamy:
27:44
Like so there is a distinction between victimhood, like being a victim to someone else's actions, and then that in the healing process, there is the option, there is the capacity to choose that like victim mentality of how do I change my own perspective of self and my awareness of the way the world works, to love and value and heal whatever is in me that's causing, like the receptivity or the availability to this experience.
Keri:
28:21
Yes, you know there's a lot of truth to what you're saying.
Jamy:
28:23
Yeah To like to distinguish.
Keri:
28:25
Because when I, when I was straight out of the marriage, there's like there is a lot of not being able to self-reflect the way that I can now, because it I was in such survival mode.
Jamy:
28:33
Yeah, and the flip side of that, too, is like, um, being able to say fuck you, like, don't over.
Jamy:
28:40
We can overtake responsibility and excuse away bad behavior, because we also are not in balance and loving ourselves enough to say I'm just not available for this, you know.
Jamy:
28:52
So there's a balance and there is a spectrum, and you will find yourself at every point along it, and I think another topic that we'll have to go into deeper is that the reason that we don't want to self-reflect, the reason that we don't want to ask the question and stay curious, is rooted in shame. Like it's the self-judgment that we should know better, that we, you know, messed it up, that we got it wrong. And it's like removing this idea of right and wrong, that there is a right choice, there is a wrong choice, there was a right or a wrong choice. There just is what is right. There's no right or wrong to it. Like you could have made a different choice somewhere along the road, you'd still be facing the confrontation of shame and things gone bad and whatever. Just be different things. It's that's life, that is the human experience, and so we'll, you know we'll, I'm sure, do a whole episode on shame and what that is, and how it functions and how to navigate it.
Keri:
29:47
What we're telling you all beautiful souls who are listening to this first episode, is we got a lot to talk about, a lot, a lot. We're just going to start to like rambling the things here, I know, but like keep hanging with us, because there's going to be a lot of really amazing conversations that happen on this show as we continue. So, to wrap this up, I know that you have some steps over there that can help people get real clear on this. Yeah, so the first one was awareness. I know you already started into them, so can you tell the I think you had three steps of self-reflection so that you guys can have some real clarity around this.
Jamy:
30:21
Yes, so the first step actually is pausing, like just recognizing that there is kind of this automatic pathway that happens and it's unconscious, and when you can really get clear with yourself and commit to a pause, like, even if it's accurate, a pause doesn't hurt, you know. I mean, of course, barring you're in like actual danger, but that's actually a different thing, right? We're talking about emotional reactivity to life. Pause for just a moment and give yourself the space to feel the feels, to be curious, to gain awareness. Without a pause, you are merely reacting to inner stories being projected outside of you.
Keri:
31:05
Yes.
Jamy:
31:05
The second step would be emotional and somatic awareness, so becoming aware of what is moving. The somatic awareness is like literal sensations in your body, like for me. It can be like a tightness in the chest, or my head is spinning or my gut is, you know, tight, or whatever it is. There's an ache in my knee. I don't like pay attention to your body and the sensations that are moving, because oftentimes those sensations can actually be revealing something completely not connected to the thing that triggered you um, or it doesn't have like an honest to god.
Keri:
31:39
Sometimes it's not related to anything. It's just that you are like if we get into like um technical, it's nervous, like it can be a nervous system.
Keri:
31:49
You had a really busy day and your nervous system is on total overload and you have not had a chance to regulate your nervous system. And like, the more more that I've gotten into this, the more that I can look at my kids and sometimes I can say, hey guys, I've had a busy day, my nervous system is is at max right now. So if you push, I don't have it in me to like I might, I might actually get like a trigger here. I might react. It's not you.
Keri:
32:16
So please just be patient with me, because I am at a capacity and in those moments if I actually have because usually my life is not so busy that I can't stop but sometimes, right, sometimes life is just like hey, and so I don't have five minutes, and so I'm like you guys, or it's something that like I'm so full that it's like I'm going to take 20 minutes, going to have to unravel this, right, yeah, and I don't have that 20 minutes right now. I'm going to do my best. So let's all just be patient with each other, right, we have that communication too.
Keri:
32:40
Like my kids communicate when they're overstimulated as well, right, Like I'm, I'm at my, I'm at capacity, I'm at capacity. Thank God that we have kids that can say it. Right, I can then say okay, just go, go, take your 20 minutes, like whatever we had to do all at capacity. Sometimes those are the moments that it's like let's just stop everything, yeah.
Jamy:
33:02
And that models, because my kids do the same for me. When I say I'm max, they're like okay, yeah.
Keri:
33:08
Like Sam the other day looked at me. I didn't even have to say anything, he just looked at me. He's like mom, you need to go breathe. And I'm like, okay. He's like I'm not going to bed until you walk into your bedroom and start breathing.
Jamy:
33:25
I'm like, okay, kid, and he was right.
Keri:
33:25
You could see it, cause our kids know this, they can feel us, they know it, our our partners know this Right, and so when we give ourselves those five minutes, then I can come back and go. Okay, I'm here for you, you know. And so these are the things that we can also do. To look at like this is nothing to do with a trigger, it's just like, literally, our bodies are, it's the full spectrum.
Jamy:
33:40
It can literally be, yeah, like nervous system capacity and, and it can be, um, I mean, I've had experiences where, like it, you know, like the sweater on the floor actually brings up like deep trauma from my childhood, you know. So it's, it's, it's this full range, but without stopping and just like tapping in, you know, like what's happening here. And then the emotion, like so sometimes it's easier for people to label an emotion, like I think that the somatics are the deeper reflection, but oftentimes we want to make logical sense of it and the emotional label we give, a sensation that's happening in our nervous system, can help us decipher what's happening. And then, also, going under that right, like, so I feel angry, okay, but what's under the anger? Well, actually that's fear, what's under that? Well, what's sadness, right. So it's like you can, you can keep digging deeper to what is the actual emotion that's happening. So that's that's.
Jamy:
34:42
The second step is, like this awareness, become become curious and aware of what's going on. And then the third is the exploration of the unknown, because the emotional and the somatic awareness is what we are consciously aware of. So then it's like, then stepping into what am I unaware of, what do I not, yet what is outside of my awareness that's impacting this situation, and that's that's my process, like and I do it, I mean like anytime. Like like that trigger with Kyle, I mean like it was busy, it's a clip season, it's it. I mean like anytime, like that trigger with Kyle, I mean like it was busy, it's eclipse season, it's Mercury, you know, like all these, whatever's happening, I was totally pissy about a really simple thing, you know.
Jamy:
35:24
So it's like I could have gone into conflict, I could have ignored him and given him the cold shoulder for the rest of the day, whatever right. But like I stopped, like what the heck is happening here? And it gets easier to do too because, like you are in that like intensity of the moment, like, oh my god, I feel pissed and you have, that's the pause. Like okay, I do feel that my nervous system is giving me that message, but what's actually happening here? So it's important work and and imagine if people every day, at the grocery store, at the bank, in traffic, like did this, like took some self responsibility for their state and their interpretation of the world around them, like the world would be different.
Keri:
36:07
Very different place, yeah.
Jamy:
36:10
It's the one I want to live in, so that's why we're here. Why we're here. I actually think that's a really great place to live in.
Keri:
36:14
So that's why we're here, why we're here.
Keri:
36:16
I actually think that's a really great place to wrap it, because I think this pretty much sums it up Like if we all took self-responsibility and looked in the mirror and went, hey, let's bring this back to ourselves, we would stop. I know for me, when I and you mentioned NLP, when I did my NLP training, neurolinguistic programming training my God, jamie, it was 19 years ago, holy moly, wow, oh God. I remember, because one of the things is about self-responsibility in there, and I remember saying at the time, if everybody took self-responsibility, we would have peace on this planet.
Keri:
36:46
And it has driven me every single day of my life and in this work ever since then is to take this peace and say if every single person took self-responsibility for themselves, there would be no reason to blame another, human Right Would be no reason to project your crap, there would be no reason for war, there would be no reason for any of the fighting that we have, because you own your stuff and you can show up to another person and say hey, I'm feeling this way, yeah, and this is, this is blah, blah, blah.
Jamy:
37:14
Yeah, then there's no blame, there's no any of that, and it doesn't mean you're going to be besties with everybody. It will also mean that your paths will diverge because you have nothing in common, but you don't have to go attack you know, like you don't have to go on the defensive.
Keri:
37:25
So yes, yeah so thank you all for listening. Let this be this foundation for an invitation into the way that you show up for your life and as we carry through this podcast we're going to say some shit that's going to trigger you as you journey with us. I am sure if you, if you are here and you know us, you will be triggered at some point in time, if you haven't already been triggered yet. So what we ask is that you look at yourself and you say where are these places in me that are triggering you?
Keri:
37:58
Because that's where the healing, that's the healing, and that's what we want to bring to the show, to the world, and to bring peace, prosperity, pleasure, joy, all the wonderful things in abundance into this world. So thanks for joining us for our first episode. We look forward to many, many more.
Jamy:
38:19
If you enjoyed this show, let us know. We're all about authentic connections, so come chat with us on social media or email. Links are listed in the show notes.
Keri:
38:28
And please make sure to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform and share the magic on your socials.
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