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Hey, friend.
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Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love, and grow. So grab a seat, settle in, and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action. Let's dive in foreign. Welcome back to Perspectives into Practice. Have you ever made a plan for your day, your year, or even your life only to find that everything has changed? It can be so frustrating when life doesn't go the way that we've expected. But sometimes those interruptions become the very place where God teaches us to trust him the most. Today's conversation is such a beautiful reminder that God isn't trying to disrupt our lives to make things harder. He's lovingly inviting us to trust his plans that are always better than our own. I'm so excited for you to meet my friend, Dawn. Through years of unexpected changes and seasons that she never would have chosen, God has been faithfully teaching her what it really means to trust him one day at a time. Welcome, Dawn. I'm so glad that you're here.
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Thank you, Jessica. I am very privileged to be able to do this. I am. And I feel like this is a God thing.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. It is. It is. And we're going to have a wonderful time today. But before we dive into our topic, y' all know I love a good, fun fact. And, dawn, you grew up in the same house your entire childhood, and then after you got married, you lived in 21 different homes in just under 40 years, which is absolutely amazing. So my question is, what was the hardest part about moving so often? And what ended up actually being a blessing in disguise?
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Hardest part about moving so often was just the logistics. That was awful.
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Yeah.
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You know, just changing doctors, changing schools, changing again. Just moving into a house that had different measurements for your curtains, all those things. A financial burden. When we moved overseas, sometimes they would have washer and dryers, other times they would not. And so a lot of. I guess the hardest part would have been financial things that you did not anticipate. The biggest blessing in disguise. You know, there were certain places that we lived that I thought would be more enjoyable to live.
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Yeah.
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But they were not. And then there were certain places that we lived that I kind of was like, yeah. And then they ended up being good places to live, for one. Okay. One of the biggest ones was Hawaii. I was going through a lot of trials, and I mean, really, really big trials. And God let us move to Hawaii. And I tell you what, Jessica, that place is as good as the reputation that you hear about. I fell for the whole aloha paradise thing. And it is. You can smell the florals. You can smell. There's just. And the. The music. They have their own Hawaii music and the luau. I fell for it all, and it was as good as that. What you think it's going to be. You see rainbows in the sky. It was a really. That was a really good time for me in the sense that were living in Alabama before then, and I was going through a lot of trials, and he moved us to Hawaii for three. Maybe three and a half years. And I have to say, it was. It was paradise. And it was something that I needed, that He. He was good to me. He knew I needed that. And.
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Yeah.
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So, yeah, Hawaii, that was a. A great assignment.
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I love that. I. Man, I. I would love to. That's one of the places that neither my husband or I have been, so. We can't wait to get to Hawaii. We will not be taking our bus. For those of you that are asking, we're not bringing the bus.
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I actually had a woman ask me if we're driving. Driving to Hawaii. I said, no, honey, you cannot drive to Hawaii.
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No. Maybe one day Elon Musk will do some, like, underwater tunnels or something.
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I had a good laugh about that. Because they happen to drive. Yeah. So. No, no.
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Isn't it. Isn't it so interesting that God uses our unexpected places, these places that we didn't even know that we would ever be, to really teach us some of our greatest lessons and allow us to rest in what we are going through? I just. He's so. He's so intentional and perfect. But that also. I love that you. That you shared that, because that also goes exactly to what we're talking about today, which is learning to trust him, even when our life doesn't go according to our plans? And so you said that God has been teaching you to trust him and to lean into the interruptions instead of resisting them, which I think is such a powerful thing to. To learn. So when did you first begin to realize that his plans were actually different than your own?
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Oh, wow. Okay. So in 2018, I really got to the end of myself. I grew up in a home in an environment that it was very controlling. It was very judgmental. It was very condemning. I have to say, it was very pharisaical. I just. That was how I viewed God. And there was a point in 2018 that I got to the end of myself and I said, I don't know what to do. I cannot control these situations. And it was through the verse that said it was. It's his kindness. God's kindness is intended to lead us to repentance. And I trusted that. I thought, okay, that. And Psalm 34:18 says, Taste and see that the Lord is good. Blessed are you when you take refuge in him. And I said, I got to that point. We were actually out in Las Vegas, of all places. That's where I had my repentance moment. And I said, I'm at the end of myself. Mike is about to. My husband, he's about to deploy to the uae. I feel like, you know, I try to take control of my life, and I cannot control this. I, I had had a Lasik surgery that went really bad and I couldn't see. And I said, I, I, I don't know how. He's about to leave and I don't know how to live this life without being able to see. Yeah. And he's basically, he said, trust me. And it was just a priority shift. Jessica. I looked to God as he was my last resort. I do believe that I trusted him as my savior when I was young. But I. My value system consisted of God helps those who helps themselves. That's how I lived my life and my values that I would call on him in an emergency, and that was an emergency, but he was, it was basically a priority shift. I felt like God said, just don't try to make things happen your way. Just call on me, put me first. It was just a slight priority shift. And that's what happened out in 2018. And I can tell you right now that that's how I've lived my life ever since is just that slight priority shift is don't try to do everything your way and then call on God when he. When it's an emergency. But say, lord, you direct my paths. You let your Holy Spirit guide me in all of this, and I will fall into what your will is. And that's what I did. And ever since then, and my whole life has changed immensely. My whole perspective. Yeah. How I view trials in life and it's just that slice perspective change is not known. I call on him an emergency, but to cultivate a relationship with him, which I did in 2018, I said, okay, I'm going to trust you in this. Even though you know, my values before then was, it was just kind of Christian values, but I never had a relationship with him. And I said, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to Taste and see. And let me just tell you, he has changed my perspective in life, my perspective approaching the future, everything in life. I just cannot believe how deceived I was before.
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Yeah. And it's a slippery slope, too.
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Yes. So I just. When you asked about what are we learning in this season of life? I have four things that I'm learning that I. I said, okay, what have I learned when I look back? Because I feel like when I listen to testimonies about how God's changed your life, there's so many. And they're great. They're so good and so encouraging, how it's an overnight, overnight change. And I love that. And those are great. I feel like mostly God works the way he works, in trees and plants and flowers. It's not overnight. He transforms us and we have to grow and be willing to lean into that. And I look back at 2018. I am living in the peace that he promises in Philippians. Ever since then, I look back and I just see how the unexpected thing that I really did not anticipate is the joy that I am experiencing in this season of my life. The Christian adults that were in my life, that raised me or that were influences in my life, they lived very hypocritical lives. And they showed that in the way I was raised, there were a lot. A lot of hurts in my life. And again, it was magnified because they were Christians and they. They had Christian positions in life. And I took that out on the Lord. I thought I didn't trust him. I didn't love Him. I had a bad view of the Lord. And if. If I didn't trust Him, I wondered if he even existed. It was. But it would vacillate between, do I trust him or do I even think he exists? And he showed me and taste and see, the Lord is good. And I look at this season in my life and how he working. I didn't realize how he worked in my mental health in this area, how I used to view life. I was so depressed my whole life, and I was so. I was always angry at God and life and people and how I look back and I think, wow, he is the answer to our mental health. And how. You know, there's that verse. What is it? Philippians 4, 6, 18. I think that's the first references where it says, give thanks and everything. Even if you don't understand, give thanks and the peace of God, the shalom of God will be with you. And think about these things. This was in the past, you know, the the way I grew up, it was a judgmental, it was a condemnation environment. And I think these verses are for our mental health. He says the peace of God and think about these things, by the way, love, joy, peace, things that are of good report. Yes. These are the things to dwell on. And I realize these are not just commandments. You better think about these things. These are things that he's saying, if you're broken, I can help you in these things. And to think about these things take captive those thoughts. And that's what I have learned unexpectedly in this season, that I realize how much God loves me. And his commandments are for our good. And his commandments are for us to live, live out the life that he has for us, that he created us for. And it's not for judgment, it's for, it's. It's to help us be the person that he created us to be. And now he knows if we try to control the things that happen in our life, we're going to fail. But if we commit everything to him, he promises and he does, he fulfills that he will help us through those things and he will help us change our perspective and see the truth of life. That's another thing is I thought I was living in truth and I was not. And I see truth now. And I'm just so thankful that his love has brought me to where we are today. And there are four things. There are four things you told me, you know, what is God working on in this season of your life? And I thought, okay, what is it? What have I learned as opposed to before? And I learned, number one, to do more. Waiting on God, to wait on him, to pray instead of worrying. And instead of trying to figure out how am I going to work this out, instead of trying to be in control, to just listen to his voice. And I was telling, I was on my, on the phone with my older sister today, and I thought, I was telling her, I said, you know, before, I just remember thinking, how am I going to work these things out? And how I always wanted to take control, basically because the way I was raised, I never felt like I was in control. So, you know, the world's way is you take control, you know, you're a boss. You're a boss woman.
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Yeah. Yep.
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But three years he has taught me to wait on him, to pray instead of worrying, to not move until I get the prompt or the nudge. And that has. It's been. I don't say, I don't want to say it's been Difficult, but because there's a piece that comes with that. But it is something that you have to use your self discipline for to say no.
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Right.
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I'm gonna, I'm gonna wait because before I used to always try to control every situation and when I do, when I would do that, there would be certain situations where I didn't do it gracefully.
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Yeah, yeah.
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The first thing I feel like he's showing me this season is to do more waiting on him. The second thing I feel like he says to lean into the interruptions as his redirection in life, which again, in my natural fleshly state is not something that comes gracefully to me. Yeah. Before his interruptions. Especially in the military life where you can't talk to the boss man. It's just the government.
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Yes.
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I would be so angry at the way they would handle things. And yeah. And, and I would flail thinking, how can I control this situation? And now with interruptions, I look at it as, okay, I, I'm giving my day to the Lord, but in his interruptions, that's God saying, I'm putting you on the right path. There's that one verse that says we, a person commits their ways unto the Lord, but God directs their paths. And I do feel that it is important to write a list and it is important to be intentional. But when there are interruptions in life, which there are plenty out here, plenty at this camp that we work at, that this is God's way of saying, no, I'm course correcting. And this, these are the opportunities for growth for you. All the things that I am learning in my devotional time and in my quiet time with the Lord, about the fruit of the spirit and about growing in Him. It's when these interruptions come, it's like putting them into practice and saying, okay, I can look at him with resentment, I can look at him with anger, I can look at him with trying to control it. Or I can look at introduction at interruptions as this is God course correcting. And this is where growth takes place. Putting into practice what I am learning in my quiet time with him. And, and when I look at things, when I look at it from that perspective, I see it as a divine thing that's going on. And you know, in Fusion 6, talking about we don't wrestle with flesh and blood is so true. This is God's battle with the supernatural. And I'm thinking the same things take place that happened when I was not close to God. But right now, it's all in my response. How am I going to respond to these things that are interrupting our lives and how will it glorify him? And that's pretty much what he is teaching me this season, is how I can lean into that. Pray, give it to him. Because interruptions are always like, oh, what are we gonna do? Yeah, but pray, lean into it and ask God, what are you trying to teach me through this? And help me to respond the way you want me to. And every time he comes through, and I'm just amazed at the. At the peace, the shalom that comes with that. And so that's another big one, the interruptions. Sec. Thirdly, I feel like he is teaching me to be. Continue to be willing to grow. I'm 62. It's so easy to say, well, this is who I am.
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Yeah.
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And people give people a pass for that. And I've seen that with other. With elderly people in my life. They have no filter. And I'm like, okay, this is who you are. But do we really want to stay there? Do we want to lean into this is who I am, or do you want to say, no, God, on the outside, yeah, we are wasting away. But on the inside, he is transforming us as if we were newly born. And lean into saying, no, I am not going to settle for this is who I am. I am willing to grow. And that's what I'm learning this season of my life, that he with, especially with other people, that when other people disappoint me or aggravate me, I'm like, okay, I've gotten to where I address the Lord as things that are in Hebrew. I say, adni.
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Yes.
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You know, help me to be salt and light in this person's life. I don't understand why they're being like this, but help me to take the salt and light approach where I can respond the way you respond Jesus or Yeshua and be the person you are creating me to be. Which is a stretch, but it's a good stretch. That's the thing about with our Heavenly Father, is even though we are wasting away on the outside, Even though I'm 62, he is transforming me. This is who he created us to be. And when we say, you take over AD and I, you take over Lord. It's amazing how you look. And you're like, wow, I am seeing how I would have responded before in the past, I would have responded this way. I would have been angry, I would have been resentful. But because I give these emotions and I give these feelings, even if I feel like a Victim at times. If I'm giving them to you, you are helping me to see the perspective that I need to take. And I guess I'm just realizing in this period of our lives, you know, God's just not out to give us commandments in life. It's. He's giving us these things to show us this is how you can live the life that I have created you to live. I'm not out to be mean. I'm just out to help you be your best self. And that's what I'm realizing. And that through His Holy Spirit, he really changes our perspective and how we look at life. Instead of feeling like a victim or how people have done me wrong, is realizing, well, those people were human too and we don't have to live in that brokenness. God, part of his dying on the cross took away that feeling of feeling broken. And we can live in the verse where it says he's close to the brokenhearted, he knows and that's, that's what he took on on the cross too. Those are the things I'm realizing. And then the fourth thing that I, I thought, okay, what have I, what am I realizing in this season is when I'm discontent or getting in my head, which that happens. I mean that's natural. When somebody mistreats us or things don't go the way we want them to, we get, we become very into self pity mode. And the Lord has shown me to take captive those thoughts and to know that yes, this is a natural inclination of the world, but we don't have to live in that brokenness and we can take captive those thoughts and reprioritize that if we are living for the Lord's will and speaking those verses aloud. For example, I guess the things I struggle with the most is God's disapproval of me. I feel like he disapproves of me so often and, and honestly I hear it sometimes in my mom's voice where she's annoyed with me. Or I'll hear it with my dad's voice where he was a preacher and I'm like, wow, that's the stuff I really struggle with. But I have to go back to the verses where no matter our feelings are not facts and the verses God says he is love. So whatever I'm feeling, that's not who God is. And that's what I can rely on. And that's what our faith asks us to do, is to rely on verses. Don't rely on our feelings, don't rely on how we're envisioning God rely on his verses. And if he says he is love, then he is not out to get me. He's not out to be manipulative. He is for me. He is for me to succeed. He is not against me to succeed. And those are the things that we have to prioritize when we take captive those thoughts is that no matter what our emotions, no matter what our feelings are telling us, go back to the verses that tell us who God says He is and rely on those things and know that he wants us to succeed in him. And we are victorious. We don't have to live in victim mode. And I guess that's one of the big things that I have realized is that we do not have to live in victim mode. He took that stuff on the cross too. That whatever people did to sin against us, we don't have to live in that. We don't have to live in that brokenness. He says he's close to the brokenhearted and that we can live victoriously and not as victims and rise above whatever victim circumstances we found or oppressor circumstances we found ourselves in. That he's there for us. I mean, I guess I just realized that it's not about just he's commanding us. It's about his ways in the Bible are showing us this is the ideal, this is how he wants us to live in that freedom. And that his commandments were a gift because we didn't know what's right, what's wrong. Those are gifts to us to be able to have a baseline. And then everything. When he came in the New Testament to say, hey, you know, you can live. We can live victoriously in the Holy Spirit. And these things are mental. They're actually mental health things that will help us to not get caught up in that victim, that victimization that, you know, God is against me. That's the big lie that Satan wanted to tell me. And through his Holy Spirit, he's saying, no, I'm not against you. I'm here to help you through these hurts that you went through. And he really, really has shown himself faithful to that.
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Yeah.
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I have to say, my whole life, Jessica, I was depressed. I went to therapy. I was taking the prescribed stuff from that my psychiatrist prescribed through 2018 and now it wasn't. Again, I didn't expect this, but I look back to 2018 and I think I have not. I have felt so much joy. I have not been depressed ever since because I realized that he is for the brokenhearted and he's for Those who have experienced transgressions against them, just like Mary and Mary Magdalene. And he's for those people. He's not against us. And the thing is, he meets us where we are. It's not. My transformation has not been overnight. It has been very, very merciful and very grace filled where I feel weak. And he's like, it's okay. Yeah. I mean, you hear where you are and we will work through this together. He meets, even if you look in the Old Testament, he meets people where they are. And they can be really dysfunctional and messed up, but he meets them where they are and he promises to be on that journey alongside of them. And that's what I've discovered this season about his goodness. I grew up not thinking he was a good. I just always felt like I lived under his condemnation. And I just have seen in this season of life where he said taste and see. And he has, he's been so faithful. He's been so good to me. And not that, not that I'm not experiencing trials, but the beast and the, the perspective that he's given me as opposed to before. I'm just amazed at how I was deceived before and how I'm living in truth now because it's all about saying, God, let your will be done. I want to lean into your lordship, not saying if I need you in an emergency, but you are leading my day, every day. You are my shepherd. Lead me in your will. And that he has been faithful. He has been so faithful. I guess if I have any regret, it's like, why didn't I see this before?
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Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I think sometimes it takes looking back at all that God has, has done for us and all that he has led us to and where he's placed us now to see more of God's heart. And it becomes easier to trust his hands when we look back and we see that. Because like you said, healing doesn't happen overnight. It's when we're faithfully walking with the Lord every single step. And you mentioned, you know, you starting your relationship with the Lord because sometimes trusting God grows quietly over time. It's a, it's a slow, a slow growth. But trust, trust isn't something that we just believe. It's something that we have to practice every single day. And one day of trust eventually becomes a lifetime of faithfulness. Because God, God's plans often stretch us in ways that begin to strengthen us and, and lead us to that next season. And so in that vein, for someone who is Struggling to trust God in their unexpected season. What encouragement do you have for them today?
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I would say trust them. Don't go with your inclination as far as thinking what you have experienced. Experienced in the past.
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Yeah.
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And what you have experienced with other people. Because that's how it was with me. I was really. Again, I told you I was either mad at God or I even thought this even exists because of things that had taken place. And I got to that point where I. I was really at the end of myself and thought, I don't even know how I can drive anymore. You know, he almost gave me a vision of if I had a stroke. I am so out of control of my life.
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Yeah.
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And how. Who am I to think that I'm in control? And he. That verse tastes and see, it was like, just change your priority.
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Yeah.
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Don't call on me when you're in an emergency. When you wake up in the morning, say, lord, I say, adonai, I am going to listen to your voice. You direct this day. You are my shepherd. Guide me. And that's man. The changes that take place there. And when you lean into that and. And again, not get panicky or feel like God is not listening to you. When. Yeah. The interruptions take place, or when something doesn't go the way we want it, but to just lean in and pray, say, lord, I don't know what's going on. Help me to respond the way you want me to respond. Respond. Help me to see things the way you want me to see them. And oh, my goodness, it's just amazing how he has sh. He will show you truth that you think you have. I thought I had truth before then. And I look back and I'm like, I had no idea what truth was.
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Yeah.
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And he will do it lovingly. He's not going to do it in a way that makes you feel ashamed. He really won't.
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He's gentle.
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I listened to Lisa Turkhurst Proverbs. It's a proverb series on a podcast. And they talk about, you know, how about God and. And how he reveals himself to us and. And then the first sin with Adam and Eve and shame. They say that shame is. Here's an acronym. Shame is self hatred at my expense. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I lived in that my whole life. And God does not want me to live like that because of the things that happened to me or the things that I think I can't get over. Or we can still live in humility. We don't have to live in pride. But we can live in humility and be willing to grow into what it is he's wanting to teach us. And he. I find that he's faithful to teach us one thing at a time. Like, I want to work on this area with you. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I have a problem with this. And then he'll move on to another area when he feels. When he knows that, okay, you're realizing this, and so let's move on to. He is so gracious and so merciful. We don't have to live in this overwhelming. Like, you know, I have totally gotten it wrong this whole time.
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Yeah.
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And if we just. Again, in Matthew, where he reassures us that, you know, the evil is sufficient to the day, like, only live in this day. And it's so true. If we live ahead of ourselves, we'll get so defeated and so discouraged. But he wants us to live in the day, and he will work in the day. And, you know, a lot of the times he. Things overlap, you know, but just live in that day and don't look too far ahead. Even 20 minutes ahead sometimes can be too much. But just live in that moment and. And lean into what God is teaching us. And know that when he's teaching us, when we are growing, it's not to condemn us. It is because he wants us to be. He's excited for us to be the person that he's created us to be. And. And to grow into that. And know that if we're here any day on earth, that that's a day that he says, I don't want to take you home to heaven because you still have influence here on this earth.
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That's right.
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And so lean into that and. And know that again in. In John 3 says, I'm not here to condemn. I am here to be your redeemer and to help you through these hard times in life. And that's what I have found, is how good he is. Even though when I was growing up, I. I equated his character with character, the character of the people in my life. And, you know, there are some things that I still don't have the answers for in life that I'm like, why did you let this happen? Or why did. And I won't have the answers until we get to heaven and see him face to face. But I. Things that reassure me. I'm like, okay, well, I don't know how the way the wavelengths work with television, but I trust that they work because we watch tv, Right. There are things we do not understand in life. But that doesn't mean they're not true and they're not good. And so there are things that, yeah, God has not answered certain things that I've had in my life about why I had to go through certain things. But I know that he. His ways are higher and He's God and I'm not. And that just because I don't understand the answers does not mean that whatever situation he placed me in was not for the gospel sake. I guess there's a verse that says, everything is. Things that we go through is for the sake of the gospel. And I think, okay, if that's what I went through for the sake of the gospel to comfort others, I have to accept that for here, now that I'm here on Earth, and He'll. Everything will make sense when I get to heaven. But in my finite brain and my finite mind, I don't understand. But I have to go back to Scripture, where He says he is love. And this is what love looks like, not what I think love looks like, but First Corinthians 13 is what love looks like, and lean into that even when I don't have all the answers.
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Yes. Beautifully said. Beautifully said, Dawn. Thank you so much for being here today and for sharing your heart with us and sharing your season. And I just. I love that it reminds us that even. Even when life feels uncertain, that God never is, no matter what we're going through, and that we really can trust him with every interruption, every unexplained turn, every season that we don't understand. So before we wrap up, I have one last question that I ask every guest on the podcast, and that is, what is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today?
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That one perspective is to lean into the interruptions in life as growth opportunities, to put into practice and evaluate what we're learning in our private time with Him. Because I see that a lot out here at the camp where we. Where we live, where we work, we plan our day, and there's so, so many interruptions. And when I say interruptions, most 99 of the time, they're. They're negative. But I think AD and I. This is. This is. This, too, is from you. What do you want me to learn from this? And how do you want me to respond and to put into practice things that we are trying. You know, when we have our private time with God and how we're trying to grow and. And lean into the things he has for us, this is when it's time to put that perspective into practice. And so I guess that would be. It is in the interruptions in life is to lean into them as opportunities for God to do the, the biggest growth in our lives. You know, this is, this is it in practice. And how are we going to respond? How are we going to view what these interruptions are? And it really, I have seen so many, many times when things have been like, whoa, I'm like, God, help us. Show. Show me what, what are you trying to teach me here? And the peace that comes over when I pray that and how he helps me see that it's again, it's not flesh and blood, right? These are the things in, in the atmosphere, the, the supernatural things that are trying to interfere with and to lean into it and take the road. The high road that God has for us in our morning devotions, like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, these are things I need to learn to put those things into practice along with the armor of God and to realize that, wow, the things we can learn from that and the peace we can have from that has just really shown me, you know, the peace that passes all understanding. I can't accept explain it, but it's true. He shows me things I would never have thought about before and that I don't need to panic and that he is still in control, even if it's not what I wrote down on my to do list that he is. Even when he's course correcting and saying, okay, this is what, you know, I, yeah, you've planned your ways, but this is what I have for you. And don't doubt that I'm in control and just lean into it. And he has not failed me yet. Not. Not at all.
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No. I love that when we keep following him, our perspective changes and that every journey with God, every new season, it leaves us with the truth that we can carry forward into our next season. But we have to be willing. We have to be willing to ask those questions and, and lean in. So good. So good. Thank you, dawn, again, for being here. It really has just been a blessing for you to be here and to share your story.
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Well, thank you, Jessica.
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Friends, I hope that today's conversation reminded you that God's plans are always good, even when they look different from the ones that we had in mind. If this episode encouraged you, would you share it with a friend who needs a little hope today? And if God has been writing a story in your life that would encourage someone, I'd love to invite you to be a guest on the podcast, Reach out to me@prespectivesinterpractice.com I would love to talk to you. And if you're looking for a place to continue growing in your faith alongside other Christian women, I'd love to invite you to join the Story Haven. It's a free online community where women encourage one another, grow in God's word, walk through life together. You can learn more and join us@thestoryhaven.net and remember, even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.
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Hey, friend.
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Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love, and grow. So grab a seat, settle in, and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action. Let's dive in foreign. Welcome back to Perspectives into Practice. Have you ever made a plan for your day, your year, or even your life only to find that everything has changed? It can be so frustrating when life doesn't go the way that we've expected. But sometimes those interruptions become the very place where God teaches us to trust him the most. Today's conversation is such a beautiful reminder that God isn't trying to disrupt our lives to make things harder. He's lovingly inviting us to trust his plans that are always better than our own. I'm so excited for you to meet my friend, Dawn. Through years of unexpected changes and seasons that she never would have chosen, God has been faithfully teaching her what it really means to trust him one day at a time. Welcome, Dawn. I'm so glad that you're here.
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Thank you, Jessica. I am very privileged to be able to do this. I am. And I feel like this is a God thing.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. It is. It is. And we're going to have a wonderful time today. But before we dive into our topic, y' all know I love a good, fun fact. And, dawn, you grew up in the same house your entire childhood, and then after you got married, you lived in 21 different homes in just under 40 years, which is absolutely amazing. So my question is, what was the hardest part about moving so often? And what ended up actually being a blessing in disguise?
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Hardest part about moving so often was just the logistics. That was awful.
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Yeah.
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You know, just changing doctors, changing schools, changing again. Just moving into a house that had different measurements for your curtains, all those things. A financial burden. When we moved overseas, sometimes they would have washer and dryers, other times they would not. And so a lot of. I guess the hardest part would have been financial things that you did not anticipate. The biggest blessing in disguise. You know, there were certain places that we lived that I thought would be more enjoyable to live.
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Yeah.
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But they were not. And then there were certain places that we lived that I kind of was like, yeah. And then they ended up being good places to live, for one. Okay. One of the biggest ones was Hawaii. I was going through a lot of trials, and I mean, really, really big trials. And God let us move to Hawaii. And I tell you what, Jessica, that place is as good as the reputation that you hear about. I fell for the whole aloha paradise thing. And it is. You can smell the florals. You can smell. There's just. And the. The music. They have their own Hawaii music and the luau. I fell for it all, and it was as good as that. What you think it's going to be. You see rainbows in the sky. It was a really. That was a really good time for me in the sense that were living in Alabama before then, and I was going through a lot of trials, and he moved us to Hawaii for three. Maybe three and a half years. And I have to say, it was. It was paradise. And it was something that I needed, that He. He was good to me. He knew I needed that. And.
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Yeah.
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So, yeah, Hawaii, that was a. A great assignment.
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I love that. I. Man, I. I would love to. That's one of the places that neither my husband or I have been, so. We can't wait to get to Hawaii. We will not be taking our bus. For those of you that are asking, we're not bringing the bus.
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I actually had a woman ask me if we're driving. Driving to Hawaii. I said, no, honey, you cannot drive to Hawaii.
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No. Maybe one day Elon Musk will do some, like, underwater tunnels or something.
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I had a good laugh about that. Because they happen to drive. Yeah. So. No, no.
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Isn't it. Isn't it so interesting that God uses our unexpected places, these places that we didn't even know that we would ever be, to really teach us some of our greatest lessons and allow us to rest in what we are going through? I just. He's so. He's so intentional and perfect. But that also. I love that you. That you shared that, because that also goes exactly to what we're talking about today, which is learning to trust him, even when our life doesn't go according to our plans? And so you said that God has been teaching you to trust him and to lean into the interruptions instead of resisting them, which I think is such a powerful thing to. To learn. So when did you first begin to realize that his plans were actually different than your own?
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Oh, wow. Okay. So in 2018, I really got to the end of myself. I grew up in a home in an environment that it was very controlling. It was very judgmental. It was very condemning. I have to say, it was very pharisaical. I just. That was how I viewed God. And there was a point in 2018 that I got to the end of myself and I said, I don't know what to do. I cannot control these situations. And it was through the verse that said it was. It's his kindness. God's kindness is intended to lead us to repentance. And I trusted that. I thought, okay, that. And Psalm 34:18 says, Taste and see that the Lord is good. Blessed are you when you take refuge in him. And I said, I got to that point. We were actually out in Las Vegas, of all places. That's where I had my repentance moment. And I said, I'm at the end of myself. Mike is about to. My husband, he's about to deploy to the uae. I feel like, you know, I try to take control of my life, and I cannot control this. I, I had had a Lasik surgery that went really bad and I couldn't see. And I said, I, I, I don't know how. He's about to leave and I don't know how to live this life without being able to see. Yeah. And he's basically, he said, trust me. And it was just a priority shift. Jessica. I looked to God as he was my last resort. I do believe that I trusted him as my savior when I was young. But I. My value system consisted of God helps those who helps themselves. That's how I lived my life and my values that I would call on him in an emergency, and that was an emergency, but he was, it was basically a priority shift. I felt like God said, just don't try to make things happen your way. Just call on me, put me first. It was just a slight priority shift. And that's what happened out in 2018. And I can tell you right now that that's how I've lived my life ever since is just that slight priority shift is don't try to do everything your way and then call on God when he. When it's an emergency. But say, lord, you direct my paths. You let your Holy Spirit guide me in all of this, and I will fall into what your will is. And that's what I did. And ever since then, and my whole life has changed immensely. My whole perspective. Yeah. How I view trials in life and it's just that slice perspective change is not known. I call on him an emergency, but to cultivate a relationship with him, which I did in 2018, I said, okay, I'm going to trust you in this. Even though you know, my values before then was, it was just kind of Christian values, but I never had a relationship with him. And I said, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to Taste and see. And let me just tell you, he has changed my perspective in life, my perspective approaching the future, everything in life. I just cannot believe how deceived I was before.
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Yeah. And it's a slippery slope, too.
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Yes. So I just. When you asked about what are we learning in this season of life? I have four things that I'm learning that I. I said, okay, what have I learned when I look back? Because I feel like when I listen to testimonies about how God's changed your life, there's so many. And they're great. They're so good and so encouraging, how it's an overnight, overnight change. And I love that. And those are great. I feel like mostly God works the way he works, in trees and plants and flowers. It's not overnight. He transforms us and we have to grow and be willing to lean into that. And I look back at 2018. I am living in the peace that he promises in Philippians. Ever since then, I look back and I just see how the unexpected thing that I really did not anticipate is the joy that I am experiencing in this season of my life. The Christian adults that were in my life, that raised me or that were influences in my life, they lived very hypocritical lives. And they showed that in the way I was raised, there were a lot. A lot of hurts in my life. And again, it was magnified because they were Christians and they. They had Christian positions in life. And I took that out on the Lord. I thought I didn't trust him. I didn't love Him. I had a bad view of the Lord. And if. If I didn't trust Him, I wondered if he even existed. It was. But it would vacillate between, do I trust him or do I even think he exists? And he showed me and taste and see, the Lord is good. And I look at this season in my life and how he working. I didn't realize how he worked in my mental health in this area, how I used to view life. I was so depressed my whole life, and I was so. I was always angry at God and life and people and how I look back and I think, wow, he is the answer to our mental health. And how. You know, there's that verse. What is it? Philippians 4, 6, 18. I think that's the first references where it says, give thanks and everything. Even if you don't understand, give thanks and the peace of God, the shalom of God will be with you. And think about these things. This was in the past, you know, the the way I grew up, it was a judgmental, it was a condemnation environment. And I think these verses are for our mental health. He says the peace of God and think about these things, by the way, love, joy, peace, things that are of good report. Yes. These are the things to dwell on. And I realize these are not just commandments. You better think about these things. These are things that he's saying, if you're broken, I can help you in these things. And to think about these things take captive those thoughts. And that's what I have learned unexpectedly in this season, that I realize how much God loves me. And his commandments are for our good. And his commandments are for us to live, live out the life that he has for us, that he created us for. And it's not for judgment, it's for, it's. It's to help us be the person that he created us to be. And now he knows if we try to control the things that happen in our life, we're going to fail. But if we commit everything to him, he promises and he does, he fulfills that he will help us through those things and he will help us change our perspective and see the truth of life. That's another thing is I thought I was living in truth and I was not. And I see truth now. And I'm just so thankful that his love has brought me to where we are today. And there are four things. There are four things you told me, you know, what is God working on in this season of your life? And I thought, okay, what is it? What have I learned as opposed to before? And I learned, number one, to do more. Waiting on God, to wait on him, to pray instead of worrying. And instead of trying to figure out how am I going to work this out, instead of trying to be in control, to just listen to his voice. And I was telling, I was on my, on the phone with my older sister today, and I thought, I was telling her, I said, you know, before, I just remember thinking, how am I going to work these things out? And how I always wanted to take control, basically because the way I was raised, I never felt like I was in control. So, you know, the world's way is you take control, you know, you're a boss. You're a boss woman.
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Yeah. Yep.
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But three years he has taught me to wait on him, to pray instead of worrying, to not move until I get the prompt or the nudge. And that has. It's been. I don't say, I don't want to say it's been Difficult, but because there's a piece that comes with that. But it is something that you have to use your self discipline for to say no.
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Right.
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I'm gonna, I'm gonna wait because before I used to always try to control every situation and when I do, when I would do that, there would be certain situations where I didn't do it gracefully.
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Yeah, yeah.
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The first thing I feel like he's showing me this season is to do more waiting on him. The second thing I feel like he says to lean into the interruptions as his redirection in life, which again, in my natural fleshly state is not something that comes gracefully to me. Yeah. Before his interruptions. Especially in the military life where you can't talk to the boss man. It's just the government.
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Yes.
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I would be so angry at the way they would handle things. And yeah. And, and I would flail thinking, how can I control this situation? And now with interruptions, I look at it as, okay, I, I'm giving my day to the Lord, but in his interruptions, that's God saying, I'm putting you on the right path. There's that one verse that says we, a person commits their ways unto the Lord, but God directs their paths. And I do feel that it is important to write a list and it is important to be intentional. But when there are interruptions in life, which there are plenty out here, plenty at this camp that we work at, that this is God's way of saying, no, I'm course correcting. And this, these are the opportunities for growth for you. All the things that I am learning in my devotional time and in my quiet time with the Lord, about the fruit of the spirit and about growing in Him. It's when these interruptions come, it's like putting them into practice and saying, okay, I can look at him with resentment, I can look at him with anger, I can look at him with trying to control it. Or I can look at introduction at interruptions as this is God course correcting. And this is where growth takes place. Putting into practice what I am learning in my quiet time with him. And, and when I look at things, when I look at it from that perspective, I see it as a divine thing that's going on. And you know, in Fusion 6, talking about we don't wrestle with flesh and blood is so true. This is God's battle with the supernatural. And I'm thinking the same things take place that happened when I was not close to God. But right now, it's all in my response. How am I going to respond to these things that are interrupting our lives and how will it glorify him? And that's pretty much what he is teaching me this season, is how I can lean into that. Pray, give it to him. Because interruptions are always like, oh, what are we gonna do? Yeah, but pray, lean into it and ask God, what are you trying to teach me through this? And help me to respond the way you want me to. And every time he comes through, and I'm just amazed at the. At the peace, the shalom that comes with that. And so that's another big one, the interruptions. Sec. Thirdly, I feel like he is teaching me to be. Continue to be willing to grow. I'm 62. It's so easy to say, well, this is who I am.
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Yeah.
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And people give people a pass for that. And I've seen that with other. With elderly people in my life. They have no filter. And I'm like, okay, this is who you are. But do we really want to stay there? Do we want to lean into this is who I am, or do you want to say, no, God, on the outside, yeah, we are wasting away. But on the inside, he is transforming us as if we were newly born. And lean into saying, no, I am not going to settle for this is who I am. I am willing to grow. And that's what I'm learning this season of my life, that he with, especially with other people, that when other people disappoint me or aggravate me, I'm like, okay, I've gotten to where I address the Lord as things that are in Hebrew. I say, adni.
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Yes.
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You know, help me to be salt and light in this person's life. I don't understand why they're being like this, but help me to take the salt and light approach where I can respond the way you respond Jesus or Yeshua and be the person you are creating me to be. Which is a stretch, but it's a good stretch. That's the thing about with our Heavenly Father, is even though we are wasting away on the outside, Even though I'm 62, he is transforming me. This is who he created us to be. And when we say, you take over AD and I, you take over Lord. It's amazing how you look. And you're like, wow, I am seeing how I would have responded before in the past, I would have responded this way. I would have been angry, I would have been resentful. But because I give these emotions and I give these feelings, even if I feel like a Victim at times. If I'm giving them to you, you are helping me to see the perspective that I need to take. And I guess I'm just realizing in this period of our lives, you know, God's just not out to give us commandments in life. It's. He's giving us these things to show us this is how you can live the life that I have created you to live. I'm not out to be mean. I'm just out to help you be your best self. And that's what I'm realizing. And that through His Holy Spirit, he really changes our perspective and how we look at life. Instead of feeling like a victim or how people have done me wrong, is realizing, well, those people were human too and we don't have to live in that brokenness. God, part of his dying on the cross took away that feeling of feeling broken. And we can live in the verse where it says he's close to the brokenhearted, he knows and that's, that's what he took on on the cross too. Those are the things I'm realizing. And then the fourth thing that I, I thought, okay, what have I, what am I realizing in this season is when I'm discontent or getting in my head, which that happens. I mean that's natural. When somebody mistreats us or things don't go the way we want them to, we get, we become very into self pity mode. And the Lord has shown me to take captive those thoughts and to know that yes, this is a natural inclination of the world, but we don't have to live in that brokenness and we can take captive those thoughts and reprioritize that if we are living for the Lord's will and speaking those verses aloud. For example, I guess the things I struggle with the most is God's disapproval of me. I feel like he disapproves of me so often and, and honestly I hear it sometimes in my mom's voice where she's annoyed with me. Or I'll hear it with my dad's voice where he was a preacher and I'm like, wow, that's the stuff I really struggle with. But I have to go back to the verses where no matter our feelings are not facts and the verses God says he is love. So whatever I'm feeling, that's not who God is. And that's what I can rely on. And that's what our faith asks us to do, is to rely on verses. Don't rely on our feelings, don't rely on how we're envisioning God rely on his verses. And if he says he is love, then he is not out to get me. He's not out to be manipulative. He is for me. He is for me to succeed. He is not against me to succeed. And those are the things that we have to prioritize when we take captive those thoughts is that no matter what our emotions, no matter what our feelings are telling us, go back to the verses that tell us who God says He is and rely on those things and know that he wants us to succeed in him. And we are victorious. We don't have to live in victim mode. And I guess that's one of the big things that I have realized is that we do not have to live in victim mode. He took that stuff on the cross too. That whatever people did to sin against us, we don't have to live in that. We don't have to live in that brokenness. He says he's close to the brokenhearted and that we can live victoriously and not as victims and rise above whatever victim circumstances we found or oppressor circumstances we found ourselves in. That he's there for us. I mean, I guess I just realized that it's not about just he's commanding us. It's about his ways in the Bible are showing us this is the ideal, this is how he wants us to live in that freedom. And that his commandments were a gift because we didn't know what's right, what's wrong. Those are gifts to us to be able to have a baseline. And then everything. When he came in the New Testament to say, hey, you know, you can live. We can live victoriously in the Holy Spirit. And these things are mental. They're actually mental health things that will help us to not get caught up in that victim, that victimization that, you know, God is against me. That's the big lie that Satan wanted to tell me. And through his Holy Spirit, he's saying, no, I'm not against you. I'm here to help you through these hurts that you went through. And he really, really has shown himself faithful to that.
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Yeah.
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I have to say, my whole life, Jessica, I was depressed. I went to therapy. I was taking the prescribed stuff from that my psychiatrist prescribed through 2018 and now it wasn't. Again, I didn't expect this, but I look back to 2018 and I think I have not. I have felt so much joy. I have not been depressed ever since because I realized that he is for the brokenhearted and he's for Those who have experienced transgressions against them, just like Mary and Mary Magdalene. And he's for those people. He's not against us. And the thing is, he meets us where we are. It's not. My transformation has not been overnight. It has been very, very merciful and very grace filled where I feel weak. And he's like, it's okay. Yeah. I mean, you hear where you are and we will work through this together. He meets, even if you look in the Old Testament, he meets people where they are. And they can be really dysfunctional and messed up, but he meets them where they are and he promises to be on that journey alongside of them. And that's what I've discovered this season about his goodness. I grew up not thinking he was a good. I just always felt like I lived under his condemnation. And I just have seen in this season of life where he said taste and see. And he has, he's been so faithful. He's been so good to me. And not that, not that I'm not experiencing trials, but the beast and the, the perspective that he's given me as opposed to before. I'm just amazed at how I was deceived before and how I'm living in truth now because it's all about saying, God, let your will be done. I want to lean into your lordship, not saying if I need you in an emergency, but you are leading my day, every day. You are my shepherd. Lead me in your will. And that he has been faithful. He has been so faithful. I guess if I have any regret, it's like, why didn't I see this before?
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Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I think sometimes it takes looking back at all that God has, has done for us and all that he has led us to and where he's placed us now to see more of God's heart. And it becomes easier to trust his hands when we look back and we see that. Because like you said, healing doesn't happen overnight. It's when we're faithfully walking with the Lord every single step. And you mentioned, you know, you starting your relationship with the Lord because sometimes trusting God grows quietly over time. It's a, it's a slow, a slow growth. But trust, trust isn't something that we just believe. It's something that we have to practice every single day. And one day of trust eventually becomes a lifetime of faithfulness. Because God, God's plans often stretch us in ways that begin to strengthen us and, and lead us to that next season. And so in that vein, for someone who is Struggling to trust God in their unexpected season. What encouragement do you have for them today?
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I would say trust them. Don't go with your inclination as far as thinking what you have experienced. Experienced in the past.
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Yeah.
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And what you have experienced with other people. Because that's how it was with me. I was really. Again, I told you I was either mad at God or I even thought this even exists because of things that had taken place. And I got to that point where I. I was really at the end of myself and thought, I don't even know how I can drive anymore. You know, he almost gave me a vision of if I had a stroke. I am so out of control of my life.
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Yeah.
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And how. Who am I to think that I'm in control? And he. That verse tastes and see, it was like, just change your priority.
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Yeah.
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Don't call on me when you're in an emergency. When you wake up in the morning, say, lord, I say, adonai, I am going to listen to your voice. You direct this day. You are my shepherd. Guide me. And that's man. The changes that take place there. And when you lean into that and. And again, not get panicky or feel like God is not listening to you. When. Yeah. The interruptions take place, or when something doesn't go the way we want it, but to just lean in and pray, say, lord, I don't know what's going on. Help me to respond the way you want me to respond. Respond. Help me to see things the way you want me to see them. And oh, my goodness, it's just amazing how he has sh. He will show you truth that you think you have. I thought I had truth before then. And I look back and I'm like, I had no idea what truth was.
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Yeah.
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And he will do it lovingly. He's not going to do it in a way that makes you feel ashamed. He really won't.
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He's gentle.
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I listened to Lisa Turkhurst Proverbs. It's a proverb series on a podcast. And they talk about, you know, how about God and. And how he reveals himself to us and. And then the first sin with Adam and Eve and shame. They say that shame is. Here's an acronym. Shame is self hatred at my expense. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I lived in that my whole life. And God does not want me to live like that because of the things that happened to me or the things that I think I can't get over. Or we can still live in humility. We don't have to live in pride. But we can live in humility and be willing to grow into what it is he's wanting to teach us. And he. I find that he's faithful to teach us one thing at a time. Like, I want to work on this area with you. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I have a problem with this. And then he'll move on to another area when he feels. When he knows that, okay, you're realizing this, and so let's move on to. He is so gracious and so merciful. We don't have to live in this overwhelming. Like, you know, I have totally gotten it wrong this whole time.
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Yeah.
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And if we just. Again, in Matthew, where he reassures us that, you know, the evil is sufficient to the day, like, only live in this day. And it's so true. If we live ahead of ourselves, we'll get so defeated and so discouraged. But he wants us to live in the day, and he will work in the day. And, you know, a lot of the times he. Things overlap, you know, but just live in that day and don't look too far ahead. Even 20 minutes ahead sometimes can be too much. But just live in that moment and. And lean into what God is teaching us. And know that when he's teaching us, when we are growing, it's not to condemn us. It is because he wants us to be. He's excited for us to be the person that he's created us to be. And. And to grow into that. And know that if we're here any day on earth, that that's a day that he says, I don't want to take you home to heaven because you still have influence here on this earth.
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That's right.
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And so lean into that and. And know that again in. In John 3 says, I'm not here to condemn. I am here to be your redeemer and to help you through these hard times in life. And that's what I have found, is how good he is. Even though when I was growing up, I. I equated his character with character, the character of the people in my life. And, you know, there are some things that I still don't have the answers for in life that I'm like, why did you let this happen? Or why did. And I won't have the answers until we get to heaven and see him face to face. But I. Things that reassure me. I'm like, okay, well, I don't know how the way the wavelengths work with television, but I trust that they work because we watch tv, Right. There are things we do not understand in life. But that doesn't mean they're not true and they're not good. And so there are things that, yeah, God has not answered certain things that I've had in my life about why I had to go through certain things. But I know that he. His ways are higher and He's God and I'm not. And that just because I don't understand the answers does not mean that whatever situation he placed me in was not for the gospel sake. I guess there's a verse that says, everything is. Things that we go through is for the sake of the gospel. And I think, okay, if that's what I went through for the sake of the gospel to comfort others, I have to accept that for here, now that I'm here on Earth, and He'll. Everything will make sense when I get to heaven. But in my finite brain and my finite mind, I don't understand. But I have to go back to Scripture, where He says he is love. And this is what love looks like, not what I think love looks like, but First Corinthians 13 is what love looks like, and lean into that even when I don't have all the answers.
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Yes. Beautifully said. Beautifully said, Dawn. Thank you so much for being here today and for sharing your heart with us and sharing your season. And I just. I love that it reminds us that even. Even when life feels uncertain, that God never is, no matter what we're going through, and that we really can trust him with every interruption, every unexplained turn, every season that we don't understand. So before we wrap up, I have one last question that I ask every guest on the podcast, and that is, what is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today?
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That one perspective is to lean into the interruptions in life as growth opportunities, to put into practice and evaluate what we're learning in our private time with Him. Because I see that a lot out here at the camp where we. Where we live, where we work, we plan our day, and there's so, so many interruptions. And when I say interruptions, most 99 of the time, they're. They're negative. But I think AD and I. This is. This is. This, too, is from you. What do you want me to learn from this? And how do you want me to respond and to put into practice things that we are trying. You know, when we have our private time with God and how we're trying to grow and. And lean into the things he has for us, this is when it's time to put that perspective into practice. And so I guess that would be. It is in the interruptions in life is to lean into them as opportunities for God to do the, the biggest growth in our lives. You know, this is, this is it in practice. And how are we going to respond? How are we going to view what these interruptions are? And it really, I have seen so many, many times when things have been like, whoa, I'm like, God, help us. Show. Show me what, what are you trying to teach me here? And the peace that comes over when I pray that and how he helps me see that it's again, it's not flesh and blood, right? These are the things in, in the atmosphere, the, the supernatural things that are trying to interfere with and to lean into it and take the road. The high road that God has for us in our morning devotions, like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, these are things I need to learn to put those things into practice along with the armor of God and to realize that, wow, the things we can learn from that and the peace we can have from that has just really shown me, you know, the peace that passes all understanding. I can't accept explain it, but it's true. He shows me things I would never have thought about before and that I don't need to panic and that he is still in control, even if it's not what I wrote down on my to do list that he is. Even when he's course correcting and saying, okay, this is what, you know, I, yeah, you've planned your ways, but this is what I have for you. And don't doubt that I'm in control and just lean into it. And he has not failed me yet. Not. Not at all.
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No. I love that when we keep following him, our perspective changes and that every journey with God, every new season, it leaves us with the truth that we can carry forward into our next season. But we have to be willing. We have to be willing to ask those questions and, and lean in. So good. So good. Thank you, dawn, again, for being here. It really has just been a blessing for you to be here and to share your story.
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Well, thank you, Jessica.
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Friends, I hope that today's conversation reminded you that God's plans are always good, even when they look different from the ones that we had in mind. If this episode encouraged you, would you share it with a friend who needs a little hope today? And if God has been writing a story in your life that would encourage someone, I'd love to invite you to be a guest on the podcast, Reach out to me@prespectivesinterpractice.com I would love to talk to you. And if you're looking for a place to continue growing in your faith alongside other Christian women, I'd love to invite you to join the Story Haven. It's a free online community where women encourage one another, grow in God's word, walk through life together. You can learn more and join us@thestoryhaven.net and remember, even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.
