00:00:01
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVZ, Boston's news radio.
00:00:08
Speaker 2: I think everybody who was listening to this program over the last year years, I should say, knows what my position is on the state of Israel and upon anti Semitism generally. In the wake of what happened in Israel in October of twenty twenty three, there was a commission formed here in Massachusetts. It was a commission, a Special Commission on combating anti Semitism, and they met for sixteen public meetings between October twenty twenty four and last month. Two hundred individuals testified, and anti Semitism is basically described as hatred of Jews for being Jewish. With me now is one of the members of that commission. There were two members appointed by a Governor Haley and Governor Healey excuse me, what am I saying, Mara Healey and one of the two well, there were several commissioners here. Let me make that very clear that we're on this committee. But to one of the two commissioners appointed by Governor Healey is with us now, Dave Friedman. Dave is someone and someone who have known for a while. Amongst other things, he is executive vice president of Legal and Government Affairs and chief compliance officer with the Boston Red Sox. Dave Friedman, Welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir, Dan?
00:01:38
Speaker 3: How are you? Thank you so much for having me tonight.
00:01:41
Speaker 4: I'll get to.
00:01:41
Speaker 2: Brag on you a little bit. Dave is a very successful lawyer, graduated from Harvard undergraduate Harvard Law School, president of the Harvard Law Review, clerked for Federal Appeals Court judge here in New England Michael Boudin and Supreme Court then US Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and uh it so also the chair of the board of the Commonwealth Shakespeare Company. So not only does he like the Red Sox with raucous crowds, but he also likes Shakespeare on the Commons. So you are a renaissance man, mister Friedman. How you You've done quite a bit in your time. And on a more serious note, you would also served as a first Assistant Attorney General here in Massachusetts, uh and uh where you advise Attorney General then Attorney General Martha Cokeley. But this was an important commission that you were tasked to participate on. We've all learned that anti Semitism is probably much more prevalent than any of us would would would have wanted. Give us give us the bottom line here, how much work has to be done in Massachusetts before we get into the specific What did the Commission find in terms of the level of anti Semitism that now exists in Massachusetts two years after that horrific Saturday morning in Israel in October of twenty twenty three.
00:03:16
Speaker 3: Dan, First, again, I want to thank you for having me tonight, and I was reflecting, you know, thirteen years ago I was here on your show, in my red thoughts capacity talking about the one hundredth anniversary of Fenway Park, And so you think, thirteen years ago, we're celebrating a love affair between a city and a ballpark. I never, in my wildest dreams would have thought, even two and a half years ago, that I'd be devoting so much of my time to fighting anti Semitism, and that I'd be here with you talking about the world's oldest hatred. And I don't have enough time. We don't have enough time to recount everything in the Special Commission's report. But let me try to cut to the chase of your answer. This Commission was a great honor to serve on. There were nineteen members. It was co chaired by two incredibly great leaders. State Senator John Velis from Westfield. He is not Jewish, but you couldn't find a stronger ally for Jewish people. He's actually now deployed as a member of the National Guard. And then State Representative Simon Cataldo, who's a rising star, although actually that's not true. He's already risen a great leader in the House of Representatives. And so we have this broad commission of members tasked with this incredibly broad project try to understand anti Semitism in Massachusetts and our findings, and it's all available on the State Commission website if you just google Special Commission on Commanding Anti Semitism. Of course, we have a bunch of factual findings and we found that, in fact, as you said, anti Semitism here in Massachusetts is a systemic problem. It's very serious, it's pervasive. A lot of the response has not been the same kind of response that we pride ourselves in taking when it comes to other forms of hate. And we found this. We focused on K through twelve education, whether it's rural or urban districts, districts with very few Jews or lots of Jews, and anti semitisms across It's happening across the spectrum. You see the standard old right wing white supremacist version celebrating Hitler and swastikas, and we see that in Massachusetts. Believe it or not, there's plenty of examples. And it's also coming from the left, pro hamas, protesting and activism, which crosses a line into glorifying violence against Jews and demonizing Israel in a way that we don't demonize any country. So what's the solution. I mean, if only it were that easy. But we have a bunch of very concrete recommendations. Some of them are in education, ranging from we recommend mandatory training for teachers and administrators. What is anti Semitism. There's a lot of misunderstanding about the nature of this hate. We certainly have of recommendations on protocol for responding to incidents. When something's reported, you don't just brush it under the rug. There should be clear communication to condemn that, clear protocol for reporting of incidents, for treating it seriously with respect. Education, certainly, Holocaust education is a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire puzzle, trying to promote civic discourse. We urge schools and employers to celebrate Jewish American Heritage Month in May, so the whole range of things, And in doing this we try to pursue what we call the Massachusetts Way, which is taking this very seriously, treating it just as seriously as other forms of hate, and at the same time doing that in a way that respects civil liberties, that understands that the First Amendment is a bulwark that protects people's speech rights, even sometimes when they're engaged in hate speech. So there's nothing in our report that comes close to censoring people or preventing people from engaging in advocate to see, which they're perfectly capable of doing. But we're trying to draw lines and try to address this explosion of hate.
00:07:06
Speaker 2: I guess is Attorney Dave Friedman. He's a legal counsul for the Boston Red Sox and he has just finished a year serving on this committee. He was appointed by Governor Healy Aster's Special Commissioner of Combating Anti Semitism. We want to talk more about it. I want to talk about how this could still exist, you know now it's eighty years after World War Two. It just seems to me this is this hatred that just will not go away.
00:07:42
Speaker 4: And I want.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: To why we here in Massachusetts cannot be the best example, and can we be the best example. So that's the question that I'd like to get into, and those of you who would like to join the conversation. We go over some of the specific ideas. A lot of it deals with CA to twelve education and quite frankly, the teachers union here in Massachusetts. And I'm not here to bash the teachers union. A year ago, I was dealing with some study manuals and curriculum that was anything but friendly towards some of the concerns that I think have been raised. So there's some work to be done. If you'd like to join the conversation with Dave Friedman six one seven, two five four ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty, I think it's a very important topic. We saw what happened in Israel two years ago in October. We sat a long time ago, never again, never again, never again, and here it happened and again in a very brief moment in time. But there were hundreds hundreds who were killed purely innocent people who were doing nothing, either that enjoying music or waking up in their homes on that horrible Saturday morning. We'll take a quick break six one, seven, two, five, four thirty six month, seven nine, three, one ten thirty questions and comments about combating anti Semitism in Massachusetts. Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to worry about this? But we do need to worry about it. Back on Nightside right after this.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio with me.
00:09:27
Speaker 4: As attorney Dave Friedman.
00:09:29
Speaker 2: He's also the executive vice president and chief legal counsel, legal and government fairs and chief Compliance officer for the Boston Red Sox, and he has just finished serving a year on the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism, appointed one of the two appointees that Governor more Healy was able to appoint to this commission. Real quickly, Dave, I, for the life of me don't understand, and growing up and I'm older than you, we in Massachusetts always thought that a lot of the the hateful comments we associated with people in the in the Deep South, and for some reason, we always thought that in Massachusetts we're a little more enlightened than that. But obviously that's not the situation, and it is you know, a long time that that that we've been dealing with this. Why, in your opinion, have these you know, blood libels, these these stupid myths been allowed to to persist and be propagated in Massachusetts. Above all, we would like to think that we're the most educated state in the country. I just don't get it, and I don't I have never understood anti Semitism from the time that I really, you know, as a kiddo, came out of our Catholic school in Reedville Elementary School and found out that the real smart kids, the most broad in my class at Boston Lads School, with kids who had gone to you know, some of the schools in Mattapana, Dorchester, the Jewish kids. What's wrong with us?
00:11:18
Speaker 3: It's perplexing, Dan, And it's a shape shifting kind of hate that, for instance, gives you the following paradox. At the same time, you have a white supremacist saying Jews aren't white enough, and therefore let's criticize them and hate on them. And at the same time, you have someone on the left saying, you know, in a simplistic oppress or oppressed binary, the Jews and Israelis are the white oppressors oppressing other people, and you've got to kind of pick one or the other. But it's a shape shifting form of hate. And in this case, I think part of the answer is that there's been an underlying degree of it throughout our society. There's a history in America of anti Semitism Charles and berg Head Reford. But what we're seeing today is actually, in part, maybe a large part of product of a very effective propaganda campaign funded by Katar, funded by Hamas, funded by foreign terrorists, who deliberately said, let's focus on especially college campuses and the most elite campuses. And so for twenty plus years you've had the BDS movement, which stands for boycott, to vest and sanction, and even before October seventh, after October SEVENTHS took off, but they've been planning seeds for twenty years. So every year you go to college campuses and the campaign, the drumbeat is, you know, Israel's an apartheid nation, singling at Israel. Now, what about all the Muslim countries that surround Israel, where Jews and Christians aren't allowed to worship, much less live free lives. But this campaign singles at Israel. It's been calling Israel a genocidal state for twenty years, notwithstanding that the population of Gaza had been going up during that time, which if Israel's genocidal, it's pretty pathetic and ineffective at doing so. And so the BDS movement is this propaganda campaign. What we saw right after October seventh was student groups armed with toolkits, literally ready on October eighth to start protests. And as you said, why is it that people are able to be susceptible to this? It's baffling and frustrating. But I had a college classmate of mine on our Facebook page post on October ninth. So this is before Israel has mobilized to do any kind of response to October seventh. On October ninth, there's no military response. Israel still collecting the smoldering bodies and trying to figure out where the hostages went. And this classmate of mine posts Israel's about to commit genocide. So the facts don't matter, Dan, The fact don't matter. What is Israel. They've already written the narrative. Whatever Israel had done, let's call it a genocide. And of course it's multiplied when social media and even mainstream media spread this. And just a quick example, you may remember early on in the war, the conflict, which by the way, we all pray for peace. My wife is from Israel. All of our friends Jewish, Israeli, American care about innocent Palestinians. We don't want war over there. Worse terrible, it's awful. But early on in the war, in the conflict, there's this explosive story that Israel had bombed and exploded a hospital, and it went viral and all these people immediately posting on social media how terrible that Israel had committed this awf lack. It turned out, and people figured out less than a day that Israel didn't bomb the hospital. It was blown up by an errant Hamas missile. But by that point it's too late. You've had a day of all this exaggeration. The corrections that are run are on page six and so short answering your question is a lot of it's propaganda, and it's a campaign that very effective.
00:15:01
Speaker 4: Well, when.
00:15:02
Speaker 2: When people compared Israel to apartheid South Africa. I wanted to scream, you know, have they have they looked at the makeup of the Knesset, the members of the Kanesset who are not Jewish in fact are Arab. Have they looked at, you know, Israel taking in Ethiopian Jews historically? I mean, there's just so many examples that people are unaware of. And I do believe that a lot of this goes back to the days of Occupy Wall Street, at least the recent incarnation of this. I remember we had a SoundBite from a woman who was a teacher in the Los Angeles School District. Rob. I don't know if you still have that sound bite available, but it was. It's a frightening SoundBite, and the frightening aspect of it was not only what she said, but the way in which she said it was so blatant. She's speaking to a camera, a network camera, full face view. Do you have that, rub Okay, let me play this for you, Dave. This is Occupy Wall Street out of Los Angeles circa twenty ten. In twenty eleven, and this is when I really got the first whiff of anti Semitism coming from the left side of the spectrum. Get your reaction to this, go ahead, rub aim an affiliation Patrician McAllister.
00:16:33
Speaker 5: I'm here representing myself, but I do work for the Los Angeles Unified School District, and I think that the Zionist Jews who are running these big banks in our federal reserve, which is not run by the federal government, they need to be run out of this country.
00:16:49
Speaker 2: I was shocked, and we've kept that SoundBite, Dave. I don't know if you've ever heard that one before, but this was at the time of the Occupy Wall Street madness ten twenty eleven, and all of a sudden, these old tropes just bubbled up to the surface for nowhere.
00:17:13
Speaker 4: It shocked me.
00:17:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think then that you're probably right with some of these roots, but I feel like it's now taken several steps further. And our commission spent a lot of time talking to witnesses and looking at evidence about K through twelve schools here, and we talked a little bit about some of the members of Maths Teachers Association and what they've done, and it's actually much worse than those tropes. It actually has now veered into explicit glorification and justification of violence and mass murder. And so I'll give you a couple quick examples. The first date that our commission met was October twenty twenty four, and I was wearing one of those yellow ribbon pins that we wore because Hamas was holding hostages Israeli on American hostages. So after the hearing, a woman who's one of the leaders of JVP, the Boston chapter of JVP, comes up to me and she says, but JVP fans for Jewish voices for peace, and they're certainly not truly for peace. They are a strikingly radical anti Israel group. And she says, what's this pin for. I say, well, I'm wearing this to remember and think about and call for the release of the Israeli and American people, innocent, young people and old people, babies, elderly being held hostage by the Hamas terrorists. And she cuts me off. They're not terrorists, it's justified resistance. And so here she's telling me that the atrocity is the worst murder of Jews since the Holocaust. Wasn't terrorism, it's justified resistance. And then you fast forward to the NASS teachers Association, where members of the not the whole union, but some members sent us a letter to the Commission saying that we were wrong to show revolutionary posters of militant people who want to kill Jews because they have the right to justify resistance. And what's troubling is that it's become so normalized that we hear this rhetoric and we kind of move on without paying attention to or condemning it. And so, Dan, what shocks me. Two weeks ago, I think you probably saw this here in Boston on Boylston Street, copy place, at the site of the marathon bombing where in twenty thirteen a couple of radicalized people blew up innocent civilians, Americans. This wasn't an anti Semitic attack. It was an anti American attack at the marathon bombing site. Two weeks ago, you've got these anti Israel protesters chanting there is only one solution into fada, revolution and chanting globalized the into Fada. Now. I've studied the Intafada, but my wife lived in Israel through it, and you know what the end offada was. The Intafada was pizza parlors being blown up, children's limbs flying through the air, school buses and buses being exploded, people's private homes being firebombed. Into FADA was terrorism. So we've now had people at a sight of domestic terrorism here in Boston chanting globalizing into fada. Now do they all know what FADA means? Some of them probably don't know what it means, and they're just, you know, they think that it's cool to be able to post on social media that they were doing it, But it's very dangerous and it's actually much worse than Occupy Wall Street in that respect.
00:20:33
Speaker 2: No, I'd just say that, and then the people who were who were chanting from the River to the sea, all that means is eliminate Israel. Do I think that all of the protesters who were protest, who were chanting from the River to the sea knew what the implications of that were. No, But how how do they find themselves entrapped as participants where they're mouthing platitudes that are devastatingly harmed and hurtful to other people, but they don't even understand that. Dave Frieman, we got to take a quick break for the newscast. Here we have some callers coming in. We're going to get to them, uh uh and continue this conversation. I think it's just an important conversation. I believe that anti Semitism is it appeals to the worst instinct. I mean historically, you know these are people who deny the existence of the Holocaust. And anyway, I don't want to go on. You're the person who has studied this much more than I have, and I want to hear more from you and from our callers. If you'd like to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. If you don't think this is important, you're dead wrong. You're dead wrong. This is a vitally important subject. We've visited it many times, and we're going to stick with this tonight. I hope some of the callers will join the conversation. I have Harvey Silver Glead of Waits, as does Stephen Cambridge. We'll be and this room for you. If you've never called before, now is the time. Silence can be interpreted by some as tacit approval. Don't be silent never again. Six one seven, two thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty back on Night's Side right after this.
00:22:21
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZY, Boston's news radio.
00:22:28
Speaker 4: With Me's attorney, Dave Freeman.
00:22:29
Speaker 2: He has just finished a year long role as a member of the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism.
00:22:37
Speaker 4: He was one of the.
00:22:37
Speaker 2: Two appointees to this commission, which I think you had in total about fifteen members, if if I'm not mistaken the total number of members, but two members who were appointed by the governor, and you were.
00:22:49
Speaker 4: One of them.
00:22:50
Speaker 2: Uh, let's let's get to phone calls, Dave and see what people say. I want to start off with a great friend of mine and the friend of this program, Harvey Silvergle Harvey, you are on with Dave Friedman. So I'm going to listen to the two great lawyers discuss this, and I'm going to sit back and keep quiet. Go right ahead, Harvey.
00:23:13
Speaker 6: Okay. My position, I'm one of the Semites who's the object of the anti Semites. By the way, my position is that anti Semitism, like any other irrational hatred, cannot be eradicated. That the job we have is not to change the hearts and minds of the anti Semites. That is impossible. The task before us is to prevent that anti Semitism from eventuating into violence. I've said this before, I think on this program. I was a Jewish student of Princeton in nineteen sixty before when they were about a dozen Jews in the class of five hundred and vial anti semitism. Every Jew in the class was graduated first in his in his high school. And my position was then and remains that as long as they don't touch me, they can call me what they want. And I actually found it useful to know who hated me and who didn't. So I'm a free speech absolutist, and I believe that people should be allowed to express their hatreds verbally, and that has a great social purpose because it tells you, it tells the object of the hatred, who, who hates who hates you?
00:25:02
Speaker 2: Well, let's get let's get Dave to respond to that, Harvey. I intellectually I understand that Dave your reaction to Harvey's argument on both you know, legally, constitutionally and also from a practical point of view.
00:25:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you and thank you Harvey. I have a few things to say in Harvey, of course, is a very well known First Amendment advocate. The Special Commission made very clear that the Massachusetts approach to combating anti Semitism respects the First Amendment, and we're not calling for any kind of censorship. And so to that extent, we certainly agree, I disagree that you can't change some hearts and minds. And there's been a lot of survey data done. Now. The Blue Square Alliance, which is the craft organization that used to be called Foundation to Combat Anti Semitism, has done a lot of survey works of other organizations, and what they've consistently found is what jives with what I see when I go to campuses. For instance, I teach a as at Harvard Laws, so I'm a member the faculty. There's probably that a ten percent of people who you could say they truly are haters, they harbor real hatred in their heart. But then there's a lot of people who engage in conduct which is offensive or biased or troubling, who are ignorant and with a better understanding, whether it's Holocaust education or exposure, might just pause and say, wait a second, I have not been looking at this the right way. Violence absolutely is a problem, and unfortunately it's on the rise, and Massachusetts now with five percent of its population as Jews, eighty five percent of reported hate crimes based on religion. We're targeting Jews. So I think that what we have here is a genuine crisis. And I'll just add one thing, which is, yes, we need to focus on ways to curtail violence.
00:26:55
Speaker 6: I agree with that.
00:26:56
Speaker 3: But almost as bad as the violence is the racism and exclusion and harassment that Jews and especially Israelis have seen in the last couple of years. And here's just one shocking statistic, which I think is extraordinarily troubling. And it's different from when I went to Harvard back in the nineteen nineties. Professor Aton Hirsch, a brilliant professor, has done some survey work. In twenty twenty four, he asked for US students on college campuses, non Jewish students. He asked the question, would you be friends with someone who supports the existence of Israel as a Jewish state? Not do you support every action of the Israeli government. You support the existence of Israel, would you be friends with that person? Because most Jews do support the existence of Israel. Twenty percent, one in five said no. I wouldn't be friends with someone supports Israel's existence. Another forty five percent said they weren't sure. And when I see that answer, I think it probably means nah, I've got a problem with that, or at least I have to think about it. So if two of three non Jewish students in America aren't sure or not willing to be friends with someone who believes in Israel's existence, that's a pretty big problem.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:28:18
Speaker 6: However, your comment, well, I can see his point of view.
00:28:26
Speaker 2: Again, he's not talking about penalizing people for saying. Look, there was the professor from Cornell I forget what his name was, and in the wake of what happened on October seventh, he said that he was exhilarated. Now that guy's still teaching at Cornell, as I understand it, he was exhilarated by that massacre, that slaughter. How can you be a professor at Cornell University and even articulate those words in relation to what happened on October seventh.
00:28:54
Speaker 7: Academic freedom, well, you could articulate, I mean, if physically you can articulate those words, stay at academic freedom, But from a from an ethical or a moral a moral point of view, How can you believe in.
00:29:08
Speaker 2: In your articulation of those words. People could say anything they want, but.
00:29:13
Speaker 6: We have a we have a right to criticize and comment on such people. But I do think that it's not an excuse for attempting to fire somebody.
00:29:24
Speaker 2: Well, my of the question is if I was a Jewish student in that class, or if my my son and daughter were Jewish students in that class, would they be treated fairly by that professor who says he was exhilarated by that. I mean, I'm just using that as one example, that's all. I'm not going to beat a dead horse on it. But Harvey, as always, you are one of my my most challenging callers and one of my best friends. So thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you so much as always.
00:29:52
Speaker 4: Right, oh, all right, thanks, we'll be back.
00:29:55
Speaker 2: I got Steven Cambridge and Steven Topshill coming up. My guest is Dave Friedman. He was a member of the Special Commission here at Massachusetts and combating anti Semitism. We'll be back on Nightside right after this.
00:30:07
Speaker 1: You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
00:30:14
Speaker 2: Back to the phones, you go. Let me go to Steven Cambridge. Steve, welcome, you are next on Nightside with the.
00:30:18
Speaker 8: True Good Evening, Dave Dave. I think on college campuses for about the last twenty years or thirty years, there's been kind of this genesis of this anti colonialism, and they feel that the British Empire and America and Europeans and white people in general are racist, exploitive, and genocidal. So I don't think this has been something that's been funded by Hamas to target Israel. It's a much more sweeping type of condemnation of Western society, of which they think Israel is an example.
00:31:01
Speaker 3: Thanks Steve. I agree with that. And actually the Hamas funded propaganda, which is also a verified fact, feeds into what you're talking about. And that's what's so clever about it is there's these phrases that are being used to demonize Israel that are tested and they say, okay, well this is going to feed into Americans perception and the left. You know, they don't like apartheid, so let's use that phrase. They don't like the colonialism of the West, so let's say that Israel is a settlar, clonalist nation and You're absolutely right, and of course you can teach history in a very slanted way where the Holocaust is not relevant to the founding of Israel. Of course, we know that the reason Israel was created as was a Palestinian state in nineteen forty eight was an immediate response to the Holocaust. So I think that your point.
00:31:52
Speaker 6: As well taken.
00:31:54
Speaker 8: One other point, I am a supporter of Israel, and I find I can't I can't talk to anybody because either the people I know are such strong supporters of Israel that any criticism of Israel is deemed anti Semitism, and I know the other people who any kind of defense of Israel at all is met with just frightful response. But the other day in the newspaper it said that at this point in Gaza, seventy thousand people have been killed. How does how do you respond to that you, personally.
00:32:31
Speaker 3: Dave, Yeah, I mean a couple of things. I mean, the Anti Semitism Commission's focus wasn't on Middle East policy, and you know, our focus ended up getting into Israel issues because there's a huge difference between criticizing the actions or policies of an Israeli government and going further and saying the whole nation isn't legitimate from the river to the sea, we should eliminate it. So that's one answer is you can bemoan the war and what's happened, but also understand that Israel is legitimate and that there's a line with respect to your question. More pointedly, I don't trust the figures that Hamas uses for deaths. Why would we trust anything they say? And now I'm just speaking on my own behalf, not on behalf of the Commission. You know, there's a lot of dead people in Gaza, and that's a tragedy. It was a tragedy that was started by Hamas on October seventh, and thank goodness, there's a ceasefire in place now and we pray for a future where there can be more peace. But I'm glad you raised the question in this sense. One of the challenges that our Commission faced was there are some Jewish people, mostly left wing Jews, who consider themselves anti Zionists. They may not favor a two state solution, and our Commission went out of our way to try to hear them and say there is room for good faith sincere discussion on these issue there's room in good faith to say, you know, wouldn't it be nice for people in the area that's now Israel to all live in peace and not have two states. That's very different from the violent thro Haamas propaganda that's out there. And most Jews when they hear chance like globalizing in Tofado or from the river to sea, find that offensive and traumatic. But if you're being thoughtful and responsible and even nuanced about it, then sure some people when they want to have these discussions that Israel, there is room for that good faith dialogue, and we try to recognize that as a commission.
00:34:37
Speaker 2: Steve is always thank you for the very thoughtful questions of gone.
00:34:39
Speaker 8: And thank you, Thank you, David, have a great night.
00:34:42
Speaker 2: Let me go to another Steve. This one is in Topsfield. Steven Topsfield, next on nice side with Attorney Dave Friedman.
00:34:48
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Steve, Hey, Dave, how are you.
00:34:53
Speaker 6: Great?
00:34:53
Speaker 3: How are you good?
00:34:55
Speaker 4: Good?
00:34:55
Speaker 6: Hey?
00:34:56
Speaker 9: Hey Davey. You know what's interesting that that last you know, speaker hit at one point the thing I wanted to discuss was the civilian casualties that are taking place in this war, and it's huge between Hamas Palestinian people. What happened, you know, Ober and whatnot. But there there's a huge amount of casualties on the population of Palestine, and I just wanted to kind of get your comments on that.
00:35:28
Speaker 3: Uh.
00:35:28
Speaker 2: I think Steve, without being redundant, I think he just did comment on that.
00:35:34
Speaker 4: Is there another question.
00:35:36
Speaker 3: I'm glad to answer that too, but go ahead. I'll just qut no, no, I can you know? Yeah, a number one civilian casualties in war. Again, it's a tragedy. It's something that I personally think is awful. A lot of the tragedy is that Hamas uses people as human shields. This has been documented for a long time. There have been studies, including the West Point expert who found that the ratio of civilian to Milton casualties was actually lower than in other conflicts. And you know, when the West was combating Adolf Hitler and we had the bomb Dresden and do other things and kill a lot of civilians, that was terrible. A lot of innocent people died. No one said the United States was committing genocide and that isn't genocide. So you know, there's a difference in language matters. There's a difference between saying this is a terrible war. It shouldn't have been necessary. We're you know, torn about it, and we wish it was less civilian casualty. No one's celebrating that on my household. But there's a difference between that and saying, oh, Israel's committing genocide. So anyway, Dan, I think he wanted to move on to the next.
00:36:48
Speaker 9: Yeah, No, I just want to say, I think that's great. No, I appreciate that comment on that, you know, and that's what's happened. But anyway, I just wanted to get some feedback a night on the right.
00:37:01
Speaker 2: Thank you, Steve, appreciate your call. Didn't mean to interrupt you. Let me go quickly. Ruth is in Brookline. Ruth, I got about thirty second. You've called really late. Is there anything you'd like to ask or comments you'd like to know?
00:37:13
Speaker 6: What?
00:37:14
Speaker 10: The one comment I'd like to make is was noted in the beginning. This report contains many very important recommendations, but they're all basically voluntary, and I think it's like really important if maybe Dave could address you know, what the public who's concerned about seeing the report actually being implemented, like what people who care can do at this point, Okay, get a difference.
00:37:41
Speaker 2: We're just tight on time here, Ruth Dave. What can folks do at this point who either want to see the report and read it themselves or hopefully advocate for the implementation of some of the suggestions.
00:37:55
Speaker 3: Sure, a great question. The reports available on the Special Commission website, which you can google, and there's something that everyone can do, whether it's talking to your school district and saying these are good recommendations that we should follow, or talking to your elected officials. We've been hardened that Governor Heally and Lieutenant Governor Driscoll and Attorney General Campbell and many other leaders have supported our recommendations, and ultimately it comes down to a lot of collective action. And I want to add something. I mean, Dan, thank you for focusing on the unique crisis of antisemitism. It's unique, it requires special attention. We had a commission just about it, and at the same time, so much of our report involved measures that actually combat all forms of hate. And you'll see when we're calling for ways to improve protocols for dealing with incidents or having better dialogue, these are things that also are important to addressing anti LGBTQ plus hate, anti black racism, so it's not just anti semitism that we're trying to fix.
00:38:53
Speaker 4: All right, Ruth, good question.
00:38:55
Speaker 2: Hopefully folks can get that report, get access to it, and as Ruth suggested, take some action on it. Ruth, thank you very much for your call. Dave Friedman, thank you very much for your call, for your time tonight, I should say, and your analysis for us, and go get us a right handed hitter for the Red Sox.
00:39:15
Speaker 4: Will you we need a first baseman.
00:39:19
Speaker 3: Thanks Dan. You know there is hope. There's hope when it comes to baseball. As I said, there's hope on these issues. There's a lot of support. I'm grateful with Governor Heally putting me on this commission, and I'm grateful to you for just paying attention to the issue.
00:39:32
Speaker 4: Pleasure. Thanks Dave.
00:39:33
Speaker 2: We'll talk again, okay, anytime.
00:39:34
Speaker 4: We'll have you back.
00:39:36
Speaker 2: Well, we get back on the other side of the ten o'clock news. We're going to talk about fifty year mortgages, a new mortgage vehicle,
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVZ, Boston's news radio.
00:00:08
Speaker 2: I think everybody who was listening to this program over the last year years, I should say, knows what my position is on the state of Israel and upon anti Semitism generally. In the wake of what happened in Israel in October of twenty twenty three, there was a commission formed here in Massachusetts. It was a commission, a Special Commission on combating anti Semitism, and they met for sixteen public meetings between October twenty twenty four and last month. Two hundred individuals testified, and anti Semitism is basically described as hatred of Jews for being Jewish. With me now is one of the members of that commission. There were two members appointed by a Governor Haley and Governor Healey excuse me, what am I saying, Mara Healey and one of the two well, there were several commissioners here. Let me make that very clear that we're on this committee. But to one of the two commissioners appointed by Governor Healey is with us now, Dave Friedman. Dave is someone and someone who have known for a while. Amongst other things, he is executive vice president of Legal and Government Affairs and chief compliance officer with the Boston Red Sox. Dave Friedman, Welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir, Dan?
00:01:38
Speaker 3: How are you? Thank you so much for having me tonight.
00:01:41
Speaker 4: I'll get to.
00:01:41
Speaker 2: Brag on you a little bit. Dave is a very successful lawyer, graduated from Harvard undergraduate Harvard Law School, president of the Harvard Law Review, clerked for Federal Appeals Court judge here in New England Michael Boudin and Supreme Court then US Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and uh it so also the chair of the board of the Commonwealth Shakespeare Company. So not only does he like the Red Sox with raucous crowds, but he also likes Shakespeare on the Commons. So you are a renaissance man, mister Friedman. How you You've done quite a bit in your time. And on a more serious note, you would also served as a first Assistant Attorney General here in Massachusetts, uh and uh where you advise Attorney General then Attorney General Martha Cokeley. But this was an important commission that you were tasked to participate on. We've all learned that anti Semitism is probably much more prevalent than any of us would would would have wanted. Give us give us the bottom line here, how much work has to be done in Massachusetts before we get into the specific What did the Commission find in terms of the level of anti Semitism that now exists in Massachusetts two years after that horrific Saturday morning in Israel in October of twenty twenty three.
00:03:16
Speaker 3: Dan, First, again, I want to thank you for having me tonight, and I was reflecting, you know, thirteen years ago I was here on your show, in my red thoughts capacity talking about the one hundredth anniversary of Fenway Park, And so you think, thirteen years ago, we're celebrating a love affair between a city and a ballpark. I never, in my wildest dreams would have thought, even two and a half years ago, that I'd be devoting so much of my time to fighting anti Semitism, and that I'd be here with you talking about the world's oldest hatred. And I don't have enough time. We don't have enough time to recount everything in the Special Commission's report. But let me try to cut to the chase of your answer. This Commission was a great honor to serve on. There were nineteen members. It was co chaired by two incredibly great leaders. State Senator John Velis from Westfield. He is not Jewish, but you couldn't find a stronger ally for Jewish people. He's actually now deployed as a member of the National Guard. And then State Representative Simon Cataldo, who's a rising star, although actually that's not true. He's already risen a great leader in the House of Representatives. And so we have this broad commission of members tasked with this incredibly broad project try to understand anti Semitism in Massachusetts and our findings, and it's all available on the State Commission website if you just google Special Commission on Commanding Anti Semitism. Of course, we have a bunch of factual findings and we found that, in fact, as you said, anti Semitism here in Massachusetts is a systemic problem. It's very serious, it's pervasive. A lot of the response has not been the same kind of response that we pride ourselves in taking when it comes to other forms of hate. And we found this. We focused on K through twelve education, whether it's rural or urban districts, districts with very few Jews or lots of Jews, and anti semitisms across It's happening across the spectrum. You see the standard old right wing white supremacist version celebrating Hitler and swastikas, and we see that in Massachusetts. Believe it or not, there's plenty of examples. And it's also coming from the left, pro hamas, protesting and activism, which crosses a line into glorifying violence against Jews and demonizing Israel in a way that we don't demonize any country. So what's the solution. I mean, if only it were that easy. But we have a bunch of very concrete recommendations. Some of them are in education, ranging from we recommend mandatory training for teachers and administrators. What is anti Semitism. There's a lot of misunderstanding about the nature of this hate. We certainly have of recommendations on protocol for responding to incidents. When something's reported, you don't just brush it under the rug. There should be clear communication to condemn that, clear protocol for reporting of incidents, for treating it seriously with respect. Education, certainly, Holocaust education is a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire puzzle, trying to promote civic discourse. We urge schools and employers to celebrate Jewish American Heritage Month in May, so the whole range of things, And in doing this we try to pursue what we call the Massachusetts Way, which is taking this very seriously, treating it just as seriously as other forms of hate, and at the same time doing that in a way that respects civil liberties, that understands that the First Amendment is a bulwark that protects people's speech rights, even sometimes when they're engaged in hate speech. So there's nothing in our report that comes close to censoring people or preventing people from engaging in advocate to see, which they're perfectly capable of doing. But we're trying to draw lines and try to address this explosion of hate.
00:07:06
Speaker 2: I guess is Attorney Dave Friedman. He's a legal counsul for the Boston Red Sox and he has just finished a year serving on this committee. He was appointed by Governor Healy Aster's Special Commissioner of Combating Anti Semitism. We want to talk more about it. I want to talk about how this could still exist, you know now it's eighty years after World War Two. It just seems to me this is this hatred that just will not go away.
00:07:42
Speaker 4: And I want.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: To why we here in Massachusetts cannot be the best example, and can we be the best example. So that's the question that I'd like to get into, and those of you who would like to join the conversation. We go over some of the specific ideas. A lot of it deals with CA to twelve education and quite frankly, the teachers union here in Massachusetts. And I'm not here to bash the teachers union. A year ago, I was dealing with some study manuals and curriculum that was anything but friendly towards some of the concerns that I think have been raised. So there's some work to be done. If you'd like to join the conversation with Dave Friedman six one seven, two five four ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty, I think it's a very important topic. We saw what happened in Israel two years ago in October. We sat a long time ago, never again, never again, never again, and here it happened and again in a very brief moment in time. But there were hundreds hundreds who were killed purely innocent people who were doing nothing, either that enjoying music or waking up in their homes on that horrible Saturday morning. We'll take a quick break six one, seven, two, five, four thirty six month, seven nine, three, one ten thirty questions and comments about combating anti Semitism in Massachusetts. Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to worry about this? But we do need to worry about it. Back on Nightside right after this.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio with me.
00:09:27
Speaker 4: As attorney Dave Friedman.
00:09:29
Speaker 2: He's also the executive vice president and chief legal counsel, legal and government fairs and chief Compliance officer for the Boston Red Sox, and he has just finished serving a year on the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism, appointed one of the two appointees that Governor more Healy was able to appoint to this commission. Real quickly, Dave, I, for the life of me don't understand, and growing up and I'm older than you, we in Massachusetts always thought that a lot of the the hateful comments we associated with people in the in the Deep South, and for some reason, we always thought that in Massachusetts we're a little more enlightened than that. But obviously that's not the situation, and it is you know, a long time that that that we've been dealing with this. Why, in your opinion, have these you know, blood libels, these these stupid myths been allowed to to persist and be propagated in Massachusetts. Above all, we would like to think that we're the most educated state in the country. I just don't get it, and I don't I have never understood anti Semitism from the time that I really, you know, as a kiddo, came out of our Catholic school in Reedville Elementary School and found out that the real smart kids, the most broad in my class at Boston Lads School, with kids who had gone to you know, some of the schools in Mattapana, Dorchester, the Jewish kids. What's wrong with us?
00:11:18
Speaker 3: It's perplexing, Dan, And it's a shape shifting kind of hate that, for instance, gives you the following paradox. At the same time, you have a white supremacist saying Jews aren't white enough, and therefore let's criticize them and hate on them. And at the same time, you have someone on the left saying, you know, in a simplistic oppress or oppressed binary, the Jews and Israelis are the white oppressors oppressing other people, and you've got to kind of pick one or the other. But it's a shape shifting form of hate. And in this case, I think part of the answer is that there's been an underlying degree of it throughout our society. There's a history in America of anti Semitism Charles and berg Head Reford. But what we're seeing today is actually, in part, maybe a large part of product of a very effective propaganda campaign funded by Katar, funded by Hamas, funded by foreign terrorists, who deliberately said, let's focus on especially college campuses and the most elite campuses. And so for twenty plus years you've had the BDS movement, which stands for boycott, to vest and sanction, and even before October seventh, after October SEVENTHS took off, but they've been planning seeds for twenty years. So every year you go to college campuses and the campaign, the drumbeat is, you know, Israel's an apartheid nation, singling at Israel. Now, what about all the Muslim countries that surround Israel, where Jews and Christians aren't allowed to worship, much less live free lives. But this campaign singles at Israel. It's been calling Israel a genocidal state for twenty years, notwithstanding that the population of Gaza had been going up during that time, which if Israel's genocidal, it's pretty pathetic and ineffective at doing so. And so the BDS movement is this propaganda campaign. What we saw right after October seventh was student groups armed with toolkits, literally ready on October eighth to start protests. And as you said, why is it that people are able to be susceptible to this? It's baffling and frustrating. But I had a college classmate of mine on our Facebook page post on October ninth. So this is before Israel has mobilized to do any kind of response to October seventh. On October ninth, there's no military response. Israel still collecting the smoldering bodies and trying to figure out where the hostages went. And this classmate of mine posts Israel's about to commit genocide. So the facts don't matter, Dan, The fact don't matter. What is Israel. They've already written the narrative. Whatever Israel had done, let's call it a genocide. And of course it's multiplied when social media and even mainstream media spread this. And just a quick example, you may remember early on in the war, the conflict, which by the way, we all pray for peace. My wife is from Israel. All of our friends Jewish, Israeli, American care about innocent Palestinians. We don't want war over there. Worse terrible, it's awful. But early on in the war, in the conflict, there's this explosive story that Israel had bombed and exploded a hospital, and it went viral and all these people immediately posting on social media how terrible that Israel had committed this awf lack. It turned out, and people figured out less than a day that Israel didn't bomb the hospital. It was blown up by an errant Hamas missile. But by that point it's too late. You've had a day of all this exaggeration. The corrections that are run are on page six and so short answering your question is a lot of it's propaganda, and it's a campaign that very effective.
00:15:01
Speaker 4: Well, when.
00:15:02
Speaker 2: When people compared Israel to apartheid South Africa. I wanted to scream, you know, have they have they looked at the makeup of the Knesset, the members of the Kanesset who are not Jewish in fact are Arab. Have they looked at, you know, Israel taking in Ethiopian Jews historically? I mean, there's just so many examples that people are unaware of. And I do believe that a lot of this goes back to the days of Occupy Wall Street, at least the recent incarnation of this. I remember we had a SoundBite from a woman who was a teacher in the Los Angeles School District. Rob. I don't know if you still have that sound bite available, but it was. It's a frightening SoundBite, and the frightening aspect of it was not only what she said, but the way in which she said it was so blatant. She's speaking to a camera, a network camera, full face view. Do you have that, rub Okay, let me play this for you, Dave. This is Occupy Wall Street out of Los Angeles circa twenty ten. In twenty eleven, and this is when I really got the first whiff of anti Semitism coming from the left side of the spectrum. Get your reaction to this, go ahead, rub aim an affiliation Patrician McAllister.
00:16:33
Speaker 5: I'm here representing myself, but I do work for the Los Angeles Unified School District, and I think that the Zionist Jews who are running these big banks in our federal reserve, which is not run by the federal government, they need to be run out of this country.
00:16:49
Speaker 2: I was shocked, and we've kept that SoundBite, Dave. I don't know if you've ever heard that one before, but this was at the time of the Occupy Wall Street madness ten twenty eleven, and all of a sudden, these old tropes just bubbled up to the surface for nowhere.
00:17:13
Speaker 4: It shocked me.
00:17:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think then that you're probably right with some of these roots, but I feel like it's now taken several steps further. And our commission spent a lot of time talking to witnesses and looking at evidence about K through twelve schools here, and we talked a little bit about some of the members of Maths Teachers Association and what they've done, and it's actually much worse than those tropes. It actually has now veered into explicit glorification and justification of violence and mass murder. And so I'll give you a couple quick examples. The first date that our commission met was October twenty twenty four, and I was wearing one of those yellow ribbon pins that we wore because Hamas was holding hostages Israeli on American hostages. So after the hearing, a woman who's one of the leaders of JVP, the Boston chapter of JVP, comes up to me and she says, but JVP fans for Jewish voices for peace, and they're certainly not truly for peace. They are a strikingly radical anti Israel group. And she says, what's this pin for. I say, well, I'm wearing this to remember and think about and call for the release of the Israeli and American people, innocent, young people and old people, babies, elderly being held hostage by the Hamas terrorists. And she cuts me off. They're not terrorists, it's justified resistance. And so here she's telling me that the atrocity is the worst murder of Jews since the Holocaust. Wasn't terrorism, it's justified resistance. And then you fast forward to the NASS teachers Association, where members of the not the whole union, but some members sent us a letter to the Commission saying that we were wrong to show revolutionary posters of militant people who want to kill Jews because they have the right to justify resistance. And what's troubling is that it's become so normalized that we hear this rhetoric and we kind of move on without paying attention to or condemning it. And so, Dan, what shocks me. Two weeks ago, I think you probably saw this here in Boston on Boylston Street, copy place, at the site of the marathon bombing where in twenty thirteen a couple of radicalized people blew up innocent civilians, Americans. This wasn't an anti Semitic attack. It was an anti American attack at the marathon bombing site. Two weeks ago, you've got these anti Israel protesters chanting there is only one solution into fada, revolution and chanting globalized the into Fada. Now. I've studied the Intafada, but my wife lived in Israel through it, and you know what the end offada was. The Intafada was pizza parlors being blown up, children's limbs flying through the air, school buses and buses being exploded, people's private homes being firebombed. Into FADA was terrorism. So we've now had people at a sight of domestic terrorism here in Boston chanting globalizing into fada. Now do they all know what FADA means? Some of them probably don't know what it means, and they're just, you know, they think that it's cool to be able to post on social media that they were doing it, But it's very dangerous and it's actually much worse than Occupy Wall Street in that respect.
00:20:33
Speaker 2: No, I'd just say that, and then the people who were who were chanting from the River to the sea, all that means is eliminate Israel. Do I think that all of the protesters who were protest, who were chanting from the River to the sea knew what the implications of that were. No, But how how do they find themselves entrapped as participants where they're mouthing platitudes that are devastatingly harmed and hurtful to other people, but they don't even understand that. Dave Frieman, we got to take a quick break for the newscast. Here we have some callers coming in. We're going to get to them, uh uh and continue this conversation. I think it's just an important conversation. I believe that anti Semitism is it appeals to the worst instinct. I mean historically, you know these are people who deny the existence of the Holocaust. And anyway, I don't want to go on. You're the person who has studied this much more than I have, and I want to hear more from you and from our callers. If you'd like to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. If you don't think this is important, you're dead wrong. You're dead wrong. This is a vitally important subject. We've visited it many times, and we're going to stick with this tonight. I hope some of the callers will join the conversation. I have Harvey Silver Glead of Waits, as does Stephen Cambridge. We'll be and this room for you. If you've never called before, now is the time. Silence can be interpreted by some as tacit approval. Don't be silent never again. Six one seven, two thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty back on Night's Side right after this.
00:22:21
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZY, Boston's news radio.
00:22:28
Speaker 4: With Me's attorney, Dave Freeman.
00:22:29
Speaker 2: He has just finished a year long role as a member of the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism.
00:22:37
Speaker 4: He was one of the.
00:22:37
Speaker 2: Two appointees to this commission, which I think you had in total about fifteen members, if if I'm not mistaken the total number of members, but two members who were appointed by the governor, and you were.
00:22:49
Speaker 4: One of them.
00:22:50
Speaker 2: Uh, let's let's get to phone calls, Dave and see what people say. I want to start off with a great friend of mine and the friend of this program, Harvey Silvergle Harvey, you are on with Dave Friedman. So I'm going to listen to the two great lawyers discuss this, and I'm going to sit back and keep quiet. Go right ahead, Harvey.
00:23:13
Speaker 6: Okay. My position, I'm one of the Semites who's the object of the anti Semites. By the way, my position is that anti Semitism, like any other irrational hatred, cannot be eradicated. That the job we have is not to change the hearts and minds of the anti Semites. That is impossible. The task before us is to prevent that anti Semitism from eventuating into violence. I've said this before, I think on this program. I was a Jewish student of Princeton in nineteen sixty before when they were about a dozen Jews in the class of five hundred and vial anti semitism. Every Jew in the class was graduated first in his in his high school. And my position was then and remains that as long as they don't touch me, they can call me what they want. And I actually found it useful to know who hated me and who didn't. So I'm a free speech absolutist, and I believe that people should be allowed to express their hatreds verbally, and that has a great social purpose because it tells you, it tells the object of the hatred, who, who hates who hates you?
00:25:02
Speaker 2: Well, let's get let's get Dave to respond to that, Harvey. I intellectually I understand that Dave your reaction to Harvey's argument on both you know, legally, constitutionally and also from a practical point of view.
00:25:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you and thank you Harvey. I have a few things to say in Harvey, of course, is a very well known First Amendment advocate. The Special Commission made very clear that the Massachusetts approach to combating anti Semitism respects the First Amendment, and we're not calling for any kind of censorship. And so to that extent, we certainly agree, I disagree that you can't change some hearts and minds. And there's been a lot of survey data done. Now. The Blue Square Alliance, which is the craft organization that used to be called Foundation to Combat Anti Semitism, has done a lot of survey works of other organizations, and what they've consistently found is what jives with what I see when I go to campuses. For instance, I teach a as at Harvard Laws, so I'm a member the faculty. There's probably that a ten percent of people who you could say they truly are haters, they harbor real hatred in their heart. But then there's a lot of people who engage in conduct which is offensive or biased or troubling, who are ignorant and with a better understanding, whether it's Holocaust education or exposure, might just pause and say, wait a second, I have not been looking at this the right way. Violence absolutely is a problem, and unfortunately it's on the rise, and Massachusetts now with five percent of its population as Jews, eighty five percent of reported hate crimes based on religion. We're targeting Jews. So I think that what we have here is a genuine crisis. And I'll just add one thing, which is, yes, we need to focus on ways to curtail violence.
00:26:55
Speaker 6: I agree with that.
00:26:56
Speaker 3: But almost as bad as the violence is the racism and exclusion and harassment that Jews and especially Israelis have seen in the last couple of years. And here's just one shocking statistic, which I think is extraordinarily troubling. And it's different from when I went to Harvard back in the nineteen nineties. Professor Aton Hirsch, a brilliant professor, has done some survey work. In twenty twenty four, he asked for US students on college campuses, non Jewish students. He asked the question, would you be friends with someone who supports the existence of Israel as a Jewish state? Not do you support every action of the Israeli government. You support the existence of Israel, would you be friends with that person? Because most Jews do support the existence of Israel. Twenty percent, one in five said no. I wouldn't be friends with someone supports Israel's existence. Another forty five percent said they weren't sure. And when I see that answer, I think it probably means nah, I've got a problem with that, or at least I have to think about it. So if two of three non Jewish students in America aren't sure or not willing to be friends with someone who believes in Israel's existence, that's a pretty big problem.
00:28:14
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:28:18
Speaker 6: However, your comment, well, I can see his point of view.
00:28:26
Speaker 2: Again, he's not talking about penalizing people for saying. Look, there was the professor from Cornell I forget what his name was, and in the wake of what happened on October seventh, he said that he was exhilarated. Now that guy's still teaching at Cornell, as I understand it, he was exhilarated by that massacre, that slaughter. How can you be a professor at Cornell University and even articulate those words in relation to what happened on October seventh.
00:28:54
Speaker 7: Academic freedom, well, you could articulate, I mean, if physically you can articulate those words, stay at academic freedom, But from a from an ethical or a moral a moral point of view, How can you believe in.
00:29:08
Speaker 2: In your articulation of those words. People could say anything they want, but.
00:29:13
Speaker 6: We have a we have a right to criticize and comment on such people. But I do think that it's not an excuse for attempting to fire somebody.
00:29:24
Speaker 2: Well, my of the question is if I was a Jewish student in that class, or if my my son and daughter were Jewish students in that class, would they be treated fairly by that professor who says he was exhilarated by that. I mean, I'm just using that as one example, that's all. I'm not going to beat a dead horse on it. But Harvey, as always, you are one of my my most challenging callers and one of my best friends. So thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you so much as always.
00:29:52
Speaker 4: Right, oh, all right, thanks, we'll be back.
00:29:55
Speaker 2: I got Steven Cambridge and Steven Topshill coming up. My guest is Dave Friedman. He was a member of the Special Commission here at Massachusetts and combating anti Semitism. We'll be back on Nightside right after this.
00:30:07
Speaker 1: You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
00:30:14
Speaker 2: Back to the phones, you go. Let me go to Steven Cambridge. Steve, welcome, you are next on Nightside with the.
00:30:18
Speaker 8: True Good Evening, Dave Dave. I think on college campuses for about the last twenty years or thirty years, there's been kind of this genesis of this anti colonialism, and they feel that the British Empire and America and Europeans and white people in general are racist, exploitive, and genocidal. So I don't think this has been something that's been funded by Hamas to target Israel. It's a much more sweeping type of condemnation of Western society, of which they think Israel is an example.
00:31:01
Speaker 3: Thanks Steve. I agree with that. And actually the Hamas funded propaganda, which is also a verified fact, feeds into what you're talking about. And that's what's so clever about it is there's these phrases that are being used to demonize Israel that are tested and they say, okay, well this is going to feed into Americans perception and the left. You know, they don't like apartheid, so let's use that phrase. They don't like the colonialism of the West, so let's say that Israel is a settlar, clonalist nation and You're absolutely right, and of course you can teach history in a very slanted way where the Holocaust is not relevant to the founding of Israel. Of course, we know that the reason Israel was created as was a Palestinian state in nineteen forty eight was an immediate response to the Holocaust. So I think that your point.
00:31:52
Speaker 6: As well taken.
00:31:54
Speaker 8: One other point, I am a supporter of Israel, and I find I can't I can't talk to anybody because either the people I know are such strong supporters of Israel that any criticism of Israel is deemed anti Semitism, and I know the other people who any kind of defense of Israel at all is met with just frightful response. But the other day in the newspaper it said that at this point in Gaza, seventy thousand people have been killed. How does how do you respond to that you, personally.
00:32:31
Speaker 3: Dave, Yeah, I mean a couple of things. I mean, the Anti Semitism Commission's focus wasn't on Middle East policy, and you know, our focus ended up getting into Israel issues because there's a huge difference between criticizing the actions or policies of an Israeli government and going further and saying the whole nation isn't legitimate from the river to the sea, we should eliminate it. So that's one answer is you can bemoan the war and what's happened, but also understand that Israel is legitimate and that there's a line with respect to your question. More pointedly, I don't trust the figures that Hamas uses for deaths. Why would we trust anything they say? And now I'm just speaking on my own behalf, not on behalf of the Commission. You know, there's a lot of dead people in Gaza, and that's a tragedy. It was a tragedy that was started by Hamas on October seventh, and thank goodness, there's a ceasefire in place now and we pray for a future where there can be more peace. But I'm glad you raised the question in this sense. One of the challenges that our Commission faced was there are some Jewish people, mostly left wing Jews, who consider themselves anti Zionists. They may not favor a two state solution, and our Commission went out of our way to try to hear them and say there is room for good faith sincere discussion on these issue there's room in good faith to say, you know, wouldn't it be nice for people in the area that's now Israel to all live in peace and not have two states. That's very different from the violent thro Haamas propaganda that's out there. And most Jews when they hear chance like globalizing in Tofado or from the river to sea, find that offensive and traumatic. But if you're being thoughtful and responsible and even nuanced about it, then sure some people when they want to have these discussions that Israel, there is room for that good faith dialogue, and we try to recognize that as a commission.
00:34:37
Speaker 2: Steve is always thank you for the very thoughtful questions of gone.
00:34:39
Speaker 8: And thank you, Thank you, David, have a great night.
00:34:42
Speaker 2: Let me go to another Steve. This one is in Topsfield. Steven Topsfield, next on nice side with Attorney Dave Friedman.
00:34:48
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Steve, Hey, Dave, how are you.
00:34:53
Speaker 6: Great?
00:34:53
Speaker 3: How are you good?
00:34:55
Speaker 4: Good?
00:34:55
Speaker 6: Hey?
00:34:56
Speaker 9: Hey Davey. You know what's interesting that that last you know, speaker hit at one point the thing I wanted to discuss was the civilian casualties that are taking place in this war, and it's huge between Hamas Palestinian people. What happened, you know, Ober and whatnot. But there there's a huge amount of casualties on the population of Palestine, and I just wanted to kind of get your comments on that.
00:35:28
Speaker 3: Uh.
00:35:28
Speaker 2: I think Steve, without being redundant, I think he just did comment on that.
00:35:34
Speaker 4: Is there another question.
00:35:36
Speaker 3: I'm glad to answer that too, but go ahead. I'll just qut no, no, I can you know? Yeah, a number one civilian casualties in war. Again, it's a tragedy. It's something that I personally think is awful. A lot of the tragedy is that Hamas uses people as human shields. This has been documented for a long time. There have been studies, including the West Point expert who found that the ratio of civilian to Milton casualties was actually lower than in other conflicts. And you know, when the West was combating Adolf Hitler and we had the bomb Dresden and do other things and kill a lot of civilians, that was terrible. A lot of innocent people died. No one said the United States was committing genocide and that isn't genocide. So you know, there's a difference in language matters. There's a difference between saying this is a terrible war. It shouldn't have been necessary. We're you know, torn about it, and we wish it was less civilian casualty. No one's celebrating that on my household. But there's a difference between that and saying, oh, Israel's committing genocide. So anyway, Dan, I think he wanted to move on to the next.
00:36:48
Speaker 9: Yeah, No, I just want to say, I think that's great. No, I appreciate that comment on that, you know, and that's what's happened. But anyway, I just wanted to get some feedback a night on the right.
00:37:01
Speaker 2: Thank you, Steve, appreciate your call. Didn't mean to interrupt you. Let me go quickly. Ruth is in Brookline. Ruth, I got about thirty second. You've called really late. Is there anything you'd like to ask or comments you'd like to know?
00:37:13
Speaker 6: What?
00:37:14
Speaker 10: The one comment I'd like to make is was noted in the beginning. This report contains many very important recommendations, but they're all basically voluntary, and I think it's like really important if maybe Dave could address you know, what the public who's concerned about seeing the report actually being implemented, like what people who care can do at this point, Okay, get a difference.
00:37:41
Speaker 2: We're just tight on time here, Ruth Dave. What can folks do at this point who either want to see the report and read it themselves or hopefully advocate for the implementation of some of the suggestions.
00:37:55
Speaker 3: Sure, a great question. The reports available on the Special Commission website, which you can google, and there's something that everyone can do, whether it's talking to your school district and saying these are good recommendations that we should follow, or talking to your elected officials. We've been hardened that Governor Heally and Lieutenant Governor Driscoll and Attorney General Campbell and many other leaders have supported our recommendations, and ultimately it comes down to a lot of collective action. And I want to add something. I mean, Dan, thank you for focusing on the unique crisis of antisemitism. It's unique, it requires special attention. We had a commission just about it, and at the same time, so much of our report involved measures that actually combat all forms of hate. And you'll see when we're calling for ways to improve protocols for dealing with incidents or having better dialogue, these are things that also are important to addressing anti LGBTQ plus hate, anti black racism, so it's not just anti semitism that we're trying to fix.
00:38:53
Speaker 4: All right, Ruth, good question.
00:38:55
Speaker 2: Hopefully folks can get that report, get access to it, and as Ruth suggested, take some action on it. Ruth, thank you very much for your call. Dave Friedman, thank you very much for your call, for your time tonight, I should say, and your analysis for us, and go get us a right handed hitter for the Red Sox.
00:39:15
Speaker 4: Will you we need a first baseman.
00:39:19
Speaker 3: Thanks Dan. You know there is hope. There's hope when it comes to baseball. As I said, there's hope on these issues. There's a lot of support. I'm grateful with Governor Heally putting me on this commission, and I'm grateful to you for just paying attention to the issue.
00:39:32
Speaker 4: Pleasure. Thanks Dave.
00:39:33
Speaker 2: We'll talk again, okay, anytime.
00:39:34
Speaker 4: We'll have you back.
00:39:36
Speaker 2: Well, we get back on the other side of the ten o'clock news. We're going to talk about fifty year mortgages, a new mortgage vehicle,
