Jennifer Stein

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Have you ever witnessed strange lights in the sky or
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experience missing time? If so, you are not alone. These
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high strangeness incidents happen to people every day all over
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the world, and we want to get to the bottom
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of that. Since nineteen sixty nine, MoveOn has been at
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the forefront of UFO investigations and we're not stopping now.
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Join Alex and Ruber, a team of highly skilled moufon
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field investigators with years of experience committed to getting to
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the truth. We'll investigate UFO events through guest interviews and
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witness accounts, analyzing data from various sources. Let's work together
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to unravel the mysteries of the unknown and get answers
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to the questions that have been unanswered for soul long.
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Hello and welcome to move On up Close. I'm your
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host Alex Tusia with my co host Rubin Riarte.
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Hey Alex, great to see you as well. It was
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we had a little break, but I'm glad we're back on.
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We've got some interesting guests coming up and in our
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future shows and looking forward to that.
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Yeah, it'll be a good upcoming season. We definitely have
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a really great guest today and we got a couple
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of other special guests lined up in the near future.
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Awesome. Yeah, I'm looking forward to our guests. I've known
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her for many years and made her on a crop
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Circle expedition that she signed up for and it was fantastic.
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We saw a lot and it's just great to see
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her her enthusiasm and all the hard work that she's
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been putting in over the years for move On and
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her production shows. So I'm looking forward to it.
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Yeah, she does, she does quite a bit. Let me
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introduce her and give give you a little introduction to her.
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Jennifer Stein is our guest. She is the Sedona State
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Section director for the Moufon Organization. A Movefon is, of
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course the Mutual UFO Network and this is an international
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organization made up of volunteers trained as field investigators, researchers
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and writers who are dedicated to the scientific investigation of
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the UFO phenomena for the betterment of humanity. Mofon at
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archives are filled with over fifty years of UFO reports
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from around the world the US. Within the US, the
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organization is structured state by state and in Canada structured
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by its providences between Canada and the United States, there
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are on average over ten thousand UFO reports logged each year.
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Jennifer has served as a Pennsylvania State Section Director since
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two thousand and two and a Sedona State Section Director
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since twenty twenty two. Programs in in Sedona, Jennifer Hoods
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holds a unique role for MOFON focused on public outreach
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and education, hosting MOFON speakers on the UFO subject and
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related fields of unusual phenomena. She hosts public education meetings
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once a month, live and in person and on zoom.
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While Jennifer is a trained field investigator, her time is
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spent on education and community outreach. Professionally, Jennifer evolved into
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a documentary filmmaker, creating three award winning documentary films on
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the UFO subject. It Could Happen Tomorrow, part of the
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Disclosure dialogues both from twenty eleven and Travis The True
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Story of Travis Wolton, and the two and twenty three
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film Accidental Truth. In addition, Jennifer has produced many small
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film segments and projects for researchers, authors, investigators over the years,
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promoting their research websites and publications. Many of these can
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be found at her website on Wingsproductions dot Com. She's
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best known for her film Travis, The True Story of
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Travis Wolton, produced in twenty fifteen and remastered in twenty eighteen.
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The film focuses on the fortieth anniversary of the traviswolt
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UFO experience, one of the most famous UFO cases from
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Arizona and arguably the United.
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States as well.
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So please join us in welcoming Jennifer Stein.
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Yay, such an honor to be here, so great that
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you remembered our crop circle trip. Yeah, because that trip
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was supposed to be thirty five people, and I had
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wished the day before that I just hired a guide
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and I could just go with my video camera and
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meet all the experts and talk. And then you called
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me like twenty minutes later and said you want the
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good news or the bad news? And I couldn't believe it.
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I had literally thought I should just be going with
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a guide. I didn't know what was going to be
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a Spanish speaking trip. But Hami Massan cam sold in
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all of his thirty six people with him canceled, and
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then your fiance canceled, and another I think two other
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couples were coming and one of them had a heart
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attack and they all stayed back and it was you
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and I. It was unbelievable and we've been best friends
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ever since.
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Yes, Yes, so fantastic. And you got involved with move
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On and look at you.
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I remember sitting in the car when we got locked
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out of our bed and breakfast. We'd just sit in
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the car all night one night and I said, Ruben,
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I want to join a move On group and he said, well,
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there isn't one in Philadelphia. You have to start one,
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and I went, I don't want one, I just want
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to join one. And here we are, here, we are amazing, amazing,
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So it's great to be with you. Thank you so
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much for hosting.
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Where was that first crop circle that you guys in met?
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Where were you? Well, we flew to England and we
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were in a Wheelshire area in the but we were
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specifically in the Vale of Pewsey where we were staying
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in an airbnb and we saw probably twenty five or
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thirty crop circles that year alone, in the week and
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a half that we were there.
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Wow.
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And we were We met with of course, you know,
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Linda Moultonhowe and Bert Janssen, and you know, people from Germany,
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the other researchers, and it was just really a wonderful experience.
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Wasn't that great that we flew in a helicopter?
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Oh?
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Yes, they took the doors off.
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Yeah, that was with Nancy Talbot, I think wasn't Oh no,
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she was going to go up with us, and we
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tried to make arrangements with her and then it didn't
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work out, but we went ourselves. Yeah, and it was great.
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You were, I believe, in the backseat. Yes, the pilot
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removed the doors and then so you're only hanging with
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the seat belt, right, that's it.
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You couldn't have anything, and when when you tipped to film,
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you were just held in with the two straps of
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the seatbelt and that was it, and you just prayed
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it didn't fall out.
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Yeah, what of you? Yeah, I've got some pictures that
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you took of me in some of the crop circles
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with one he's ageable, like to share them with.
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You, that would be fantastic.
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So now now here we have you now talking. You're
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working on the Travis Walton Yes programs. The fiftieth anniversary
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is coming up, and that's right.
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It's it's hard to believe. I produced the documentary Travis,
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The True Story of Travis Walton, of course for the
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fortieth anniversary, thinking that, you know, that was very monumental,
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never anticipating the fifty year anniversary coming down the pike.
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But I'm so glad that I took that initiative because
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people who are captured in the film, like Sheriff Marlon Gillespie,
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Chuck Ellison, who was the deputy working with Marlon on
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the Travis's Missing story missing. You know, the UFO and
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homicide and potential murder of Travis was a big deal
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in the news in nineteen seventy five, So to get
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their testimonies about what it was like for them is
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hugely important. And they're gone now. And also we have
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cy Gilson in the film, who was the chief polygraph
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examiner in the state of Arizona in nineteen seventy five,
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and I went and interviewed him in his home too
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in twenty fourteen, and I'm so glad I did, because
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they're gone. And we also lost this past year. John Goulette,
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who opens the film. He's kind of sitting in a park.
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He was a truck driver when we made the film.
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He was driving and happened to be near Arizona, so
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he stopped his near a park. We hiked into a park,
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put him on a park bench, shot the interview, and
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then he went back to work, like driving to Texas
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or something. We were so lucky we got him for
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the film, and I'm so glad we did because we
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just lost him too. So it's as time marches on,
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stories like the Travis Walton case need to be documented.
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They need to be archived. There's so many incredibly important
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stories from the seventies and from the sixties, and these
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are important stories because this is a time before the internet, right,
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this is a time before digital photography and you know,
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digital filmmaking and you know, CGI and all the things
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that we now need to deal with, which becomes so
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impossible to sort out fact from fiction and you know,
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truth from a falsehood. But Travis Walton's case stands continually
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as one of these predominantly, you know, I don't know
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what you would call it a you know, a poster
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child UFO case because it was involving seven people, because
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it was lie detections involved, which never happens with the
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UFO case. It's way too expensive to do that, so
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it really stands the test of time, and it's one
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of the most heavily debunked cases still. Wow yeah. Yeah.
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So it's hard for me to believe it's fifty years now,
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and it's hard for Travis too to realize. But I'm
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glad that people are coming together to honor him and
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to recognize the contributions he's made to the UFO field.
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Wow. Yeah, his incident that happened on November fifth, nineteen
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seventy five.
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November fifth, Yeah, yeah, so we all, you know, a
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lot of us probably remember where we were. I had
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my own UFO sighting just actually before that in nineteen
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seventy five as well, in September of nineteen seventy five.
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So even though I stayed in my grave box and
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I didn't really get involved in the UFO field for
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twenty five years, but it was there. So there was
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a lot of activity in nineteen seventy five, and there
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were a number of nuclear bases also that went, you know,
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that had UFO flyovers and UFOs rendering their nuclear weapons
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inert I was just on the phone with someone yesterday.
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I don't know if it was Jim Delatoso or someone
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else who was saying, you know, a lot was going on.
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Oh it was Antonio Juneus. Antonio was saying there was
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a huge amount that went on in that year leading
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up to you know, like in the things in September
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and October of nineteen seventy five, which I didn't recall.
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Amazing.
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Yeah, how did you get to get to know Travis?
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Well, we have a mutual friend all of us. I know,
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Ruben knows Peter Robbins, who's a writer and lives in
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New York. He's a good friend of your producer Bill
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Forte as well. So I was asked by Peter if
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i'd come to Roswelt and sort of just be his
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assistant because there was a lot to coordinate with those
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large Rodswell UFO conferences, and he knew I had the
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skills to help him. So I flew out and did
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you know, whatever was needed, you know, I was what
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they called the uh the quick runner drive to the airport,
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pick this person up, hang these posters, do whatever, introduce
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this speaker Sott. Travis was there that year and at
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the end of the conference we all went out to
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dinner at a place called Pepper's I think with Ruben
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Ruben was sitting there and Peter Robbins or Ruben, and
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I said to Travis, you know, your experience is the
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most one of them has profound UFO experiences, certainly as
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big as Rosweld is. But Rosweld was nineteen forty seven.
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Yours was nineteen seventy five. Yours is a lot more current. It's,
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you know, nineteen forty seven. I wasn't even born yet,
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you know. So for all the upcoming generations, the newer generations,
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we thought that Travis should host a conference up in
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Snowflake and turn that area, Snowflake, Heber or Holbrook into
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its own little Roswelt. That was the idea because there
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are so many small conferences now around major flaps, and
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some of them even just around a famous picture like
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the McMinnville UFO conference draws over five thousand people now
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to attend, and that's over the Trent pictures of a UFO, right.
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And then there's Pine Bush, New York because of the
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Hudson Valley flaps. And there's Exeter Exeter, New Hampshire that
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happens every year, and Peter's involved in that too, and
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that's that conference happens because of the UFO events that
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happens and continue to happen in that region. And I think, yeah,
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so I know I'm dragging.
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On, no, no, no, please, because you know what.
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What's really interesting is that the Walker Air Force Base
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or the Well I think that's what they call it
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now in Rosweld. They changed the name of the Air
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Force base in Rosweld after that UFO encounter because the
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five oh ninth bomb squad was there and they didn't
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want to draw attention to Rosweld. So what they did
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is they moved the five oh ninth bomb squad I think,
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to Pierce Air Force Base in New Hampshire, which is
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right near Exeter. And the UFO phenomenon followed the air
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Force base's move of the nuclear you know, delivery system
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we had at that time. So there's all these little
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small conferences that are based around phenomenal UFO stories. And
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so while we're sitting at dinner drinking a bottle of
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wine at Pepper's Restaurant in Rosweld, Reuben and Peter and
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I said to Travis, you know, why don't you think
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about doing a fortieth Because at that point it was
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twenty ten and it was the thirty fifth anniversary coming up,
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and we said, you know, you should plan for the fortieth.
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It's five years away. You know, that's easy, doable. We
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plan a conference in five years, we can do that.
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So that's how it started. And then Travis wanted to
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take the people who showed up at the conference up
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to the forest at night and show them and explain
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to them what he experienced at night. And I said, Travis,
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that's like, you know, taking one hundred people on a
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forty five minute walk through the forest at night. There's
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no bathrooms, there's no lights, there's nothing around up there.
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Some people have canes or walkers. You know, exactly how
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is that going to work? From ance perspective. I had
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been an event coordinator, so I did weddings, bar Mitzvah's fortieth, fiftieth, sixtieth, birthday, parties,
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corporate events. And I said, that's an insurance nightmare. That
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is like I thought, that was the stupidest thing to
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try to do. We actually ended up doing it because
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Travis really wanted. But this is how the film got started,
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and this is kind of how I developed a relationship
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with Travis. I said to Travis, well, let me fly
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out there, and I'll shoot interviews with all the guys,
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all the living crew members, because at that point that
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or we had already lost two of them, Alan Dallas,
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and only blanking on the other guy's name who we
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had lost. At that point, anyway, we'd already lost two
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crew members, and I said, why don't I shoot interviews
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with all of them, and then from the comfort of
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a conference room, we'll show these interviews and we'll show
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the forest to people via fing because I was already
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doing some film work at that point, and he thought
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that was a good idea. So we did that, and
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then gradually Travis began to trust me more, and I
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began to really develop insight and a lot of respect
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for Travis. And I realized that with a couple of
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other interviews like sy Gilson, Marlon Gillespie, Chuck Ellison, maybe
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some other family members who wanted to come forward, and
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all the UFO experts I knew at that point, being
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getting involved in MOFON, I realized that, you know, I'd
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already been doing ten years worth a move on work
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at that point, thanks to Ruben, who said, you got
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to start a move on group. So I approached you know,
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many people who I knew knew the Travis Walton story,
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and I said, would you be willing to go on
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camera and tell me what you think? So I interviewed
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a lot more people than we have in the film.
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I could probably do a mini series on the Travis
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Walton put the time into it. But that's what happened. Gradually,
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Travis developed trust in me, and we just developed a
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great friendship and a great, you know, working relationship. And
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then the film got produced for the fortieth anniversary conference,
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so we did a thirty ninth and then we also
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did a fortieth anniversary in Snowflake. But we couldn't continue
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to launch those conferences because we couldn't get any support
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or interest, and Travis really needed someone to help him
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completely organize the conferences. And I was living in Philadelphia recently,
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you know, when I moved to Arizona in twenty twenty one.
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So that's kind of how it developed. It was very organic,
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and I'm an air so I tend to like say, oh, yeah,
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I can do that, and then I go, ho, my goodness,
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what did I get myself into? You know? And I
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usually have to get myself out of pickles once I
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get myself into. But it's turned out to be really well,
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you know, really a well received film, an award winning film,
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and I think it helps provide some acknowledgment for these
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boys and the crew. You know, none of them wanted
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to come forward, including Travis, but none of them could
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stay silent because they had to report Travis missing. So
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it's a really interesting, deep psychological perspective when you think
312
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about it. You know, when a lot of people see UFOs,
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they don't even report it. Only one in ten get reported, right, Yeah,
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So when you think about it, there are like say,
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roughly around ten thousand reports between Canada and the United
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States a year. That means there's at least one hundred
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thousand sightings at least, and that's just the United States
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and Canada.
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That's amazing. The thing that I always impressed Jennifer about
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Travis is that I heard him a number of times
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at different events, and he always was right on target.
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I mean, he never really deviated from his UH presentation
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or his experience, and you know that that was that's
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what and I never got tired of listening to him.
325
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It was always like that man experienced something literally out
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of this world, and to hear to hear him talk
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about what went through his mind when he was confronted
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with those with beings, the Nordic type beings and the
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Great type beings, and with his fears. I mean, it's ongoing.
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And so I had a chance to go back to
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one of the links that you sent us of your
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interview with him to fourth end, and it was great
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for me to hear that because it brought back I
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was able to remember his story. But then again and
335
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I thought, man, he's been right on purpose, because he said,
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if he didn't do this, he had so many debunkers
337
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out there, people that were trying to poo poo is
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his experience, and he said, it was important for me
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to get out there and help you educate the people
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on what's going on.
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Yes, yes, and the debunking is amazing. You know, they
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have an easy job, as we know, all they have
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to do is cast doubt. They have to then they
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do that by confusing the audience, making their listening audience
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feel like they're not smart enough to figure it out
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or read the book or go to a conference and
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hear Travis himself and they think that no one else
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has done the research. You know, when when debunkers go
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big on it, very few of them ever call me, hey,
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do you you know, do you have any you know,
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like information that could lead to a better understanding of this.
352
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Is there any way that these boys could have seen
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a lighthouse in you know, a fire tower instead of
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the UFO, which is the leading current debunking.
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Oh, yeah, you.
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Know story that's out there. Oh they just saw a lighthouse. Well,
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you know, if you take that apart, it's it's not
358
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too hard to put two and two together. Those fire
359
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towers are important for protection of forests and they are
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always at the top highest point of the forest. And
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the sid Graves National Forest is thousands of acres. I mean,
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it could be even over a million. It's the large
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Ponderosa pine forest in the world where they were working,
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and it stretches from parts of New Mexico straight on
365
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through northern northeastern Arizona and up into Utah and Colorado.
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And it's a very very high plateau. It's about seven
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thousand feet high. So they weren't working on the top
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of the movie. They were working in the Turkey Springs Valley.
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So nobody's going to put a fire tower in the
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valley and the closest fire tower was five miles away
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from them. So what I did when that debunking started
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is I posted some of my drone footage right on
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the Travis Walton video page. And well, I created a
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debunking page to post videos of all the peoples, and
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I posted the drone footage we flew right from the
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actual site. So the drone goes up, it turns three
377
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hundred and sixty degrees all the way around. There is
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no way in God's loving Earth you can see the
379
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fire tower from the Turkey Springs Valley where they were,
380
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So there's no possible way it could have been that.
381
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Besides that, the fire tower has a base to it, right,
382
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a ninety foot base. There are at least And recently
383
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I was there with a young new podcaster named Patrick
384
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James who lives here in the Phoenix area, and he's
385
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doing a special he's coming out with shortly about the
386
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Travis case. So we drove up there together again and
387
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interviewed Travis, and we stopped at this gentry fire tower
388
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and we all tried to throw stones at it, you know,
389
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like we actually videotaped it. We said, look, let's let's
390
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actually show this. So we tried to throw stones at
391
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it because Travis said this, and all the boys and
392
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:40.880
the crew said, this craft was hovering twenty feet off
393
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the ground. You could have hit it with a stone easily,
394
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and there's no way we could hit the fire tower
395
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with a stone. You throw that high and none of us. So,
396
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you know, these debunkers don't really have a leg to
397
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stand on when you kind of dig deeper. But again,
398
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all they have to do is cast doubt and they've
399
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:04.880
done their job, and it's a shame. But there has
400
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.160
to be a reason. I say, well, why is it
401
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:13.200
that they want to debunk this subject? And that's the
402
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:16.720
deeper psychological dig that has to go on, and those
403
00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.640
of us in the UFO field have had to do
404
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.240
that with ourselves, right, Yeah, we've had to say, oh
405
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:25.519
my god, you know what is the solid ground I
406
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.119
stand on? You know, the nature of your personal reality
407
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:34.359
shifts tremendously when you have an encounter, as both of
408
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.640
you probably know, and your life is never quite the
409
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:42.119
same after that. And having had that experience myself and
410
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.200
having my incidents stay in my own gray box for
411
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:49.240
twenty five years before I realized I wasn't alone, there
412
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:51.519
was somebody else who saw the same thing I saw.
413
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:56.839
Then I was like, okay, then I had at least
414
00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.680
another leg to stand on, and Travis had even legs
415
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:02.119
to stand on his own, and.
416
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.240
Six other way others.
417
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:08.119
Yeah, yeah, So and the fact that they didn't really
418
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.880
want to come forward. I mean, they were all Mormons.
419
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:16.079
We have to remember that they were ostracized by their
420
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families and by their community. It was terrible for them,
421
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:24.680
and in many cases this instance ruined a lot of
422
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:28.920
their lives. And you know, to some extent, I mean,
423
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.319
they made the best of it, and Travis has as well.
424
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But you know, what do you do when you're nineteen
425
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.880
and twenty years old and the whole world was calling
426
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:40.799
you a liar and you're being accused of murder. I
427
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:43.799
can't imagine how difficult it was for all of them,
428
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:47.960
and also for Travis. I can't imagine as a young
429
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.880
man trying to put this all in perspective and having
430
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:56.599
the whole world know what happened. It's very difficult. And
431
00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:01.519
for that, for that alone, we need to recognize him
432
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:04.359
at this anniversary. I think.
433
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:09.160
So do you think that the movie The Fire in
434
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:13.079
the Sky, How do you think that portrayed the event well.
435
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:19.200
It definitely captured the emotional and psychological difficulty that the
436
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:23.839
crew members were experiencing, for sure. Tracy Tormay did a
437
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.440
great job with that. But where Paramount kind of went
438
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:33.039
off the rails was the way Hollywood typically does with
439
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.319
the onboard the craft abduction experience that Travis had and
440
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.400
the memory that he has of meeting two different species,
441
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:44.440
both the Grays and what we might refer to as
442
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.599
human looking Nordics that look at you know, probably talk,
443
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.839
we don't know. They didn't talk to him, but he
444
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:56.119
did encounter people that he thought were human and then
445
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:59.559
the small grays as well. And it's another thing for
446
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:04.039
us to remember, this is nineteen seventy five. You were
447
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.640
not hearing about beings. Usually you were hearing about craft
448
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:11.599
and the sky. Only people that came out with stories
449
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.200
about beings that I knew about was the Betty and
450
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:18.599
Barney hillcase from the sixties, and they, of course were
451
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:23.240
very reluctant to come forward as well. So Fire in
452
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:27.680
the Sky did a good job, but they failed at
453
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:32.000
the onboard the craft experience, and they really failed, I
454
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:37.960
think at the psychological opportunity they had to open up
455
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.279
people's minds to the fact that this phenomenon Israel, it's
456
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:46.720
been going on for probably thousands of years, but certainly
457
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:51.079
what I have researched and documented that, certainly the last
458
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:54.920
eighty years, it's been going on right, and it has
459
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.400
been debunked for probably seventy five of those eighty years.
460
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.240
Only living in a new era in the last five years,
461
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:07.359
which is very interesting to me. You know, like a
462
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:12.200
lot has happened, Like it happened right, that changed everyone's thinking.
463
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.240
The UFO situation opened up, So I really think we're
464
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:20.279
on the precipice of a new shifting consciousness. But Fyring,
465
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.240
this guy did help move it in that direction, and
466
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.240
it helped put his story even more on the map.
467
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:31.240
And I'm hoping that my documentary fills in the gaps
468
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.519
between the Hollywood version and the true version. And I
469
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.920
couldn't believe no one had ever done the film. I mean,
470
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:40.599
I was sitting in my office one day, probably in
471
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:43.960
like twenty thirteen or fourteen, when I kind of I
472
00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:46.440
guess it was around twenty thirteen when it occurred to me,
473
00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:50.519
maybe I'm producing something different than just something to be
474
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:53.960
shown at a conference, you know, a on a computer
475
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.960
as a PowerPoint presentation. Maybe I'm producing a film. It
476
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:02.440
just it just kind of like like landed on my lap,
477
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.119
and I went, oh, you know, it's like when you
478
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:09.000
find out you're pregnant, right, like, oh, maybe I have
479
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:14.559
something else going on here. So you know, I became
480
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:18.599
inspired and decided to work on the film, and I'm
481
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:19.359
really glad.
482
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:26.000
I didn't, you know, going back to some of the debunking,
483
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:31.680
I was rereading it that up there in the forest
484
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:35.000
area where they had cut down the trees, and then
485
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:39.759
the tree trunks were exposed, and what they discovered were
486
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:45.599
that the rings of the tree was basically changed. It
487
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:49.359
was moving towards the direction where the craft was at.
488
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:50.960
If I recall, yes.
489
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.240
This actually this discovery. I have a short little video
490
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:59.759
up called sight review with Ben Hansen on the bunking
491
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:03.680
page age at Travis waltonthmovie dot com. So we decided
492
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.480
to do a site review, and God bless Ben Hansen,
493
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.759
this was his idea. I didn't really think it was
494
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:12.759
necessary and I didn't think we would actually use it
495
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.359
in the film, but I said, what the heck, you know,
496
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:17.880
it's a day I'm out here. Anyway, let's take the cameras.
497
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:20.839
Let's go up with Ben and we did all sorts
498
00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:23.480
of testing in the forest. We used a drone camera.
499
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.119
God bless Gary Hilton who came up and filmed that
500
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.680
day with his drone. So what we did is we
501
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.920
mapped out the area with yellow sticker tape and we
502
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.079
started to walk around in a circle and just say, okay,
503
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.200
what is in this forty to fifty foot diameter of
504
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:44.200
where this craft was. Is there anything unusual? And since
505
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.039
the Rodeo chetnis I fire had happened, I think that
506
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:50.039
was in two thousand and six, they had, you know,
507
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.440
felled or cut a lot of the trees that were
508
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:58.160
severely burned, but their center part, their stumps were still
509
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:02.279
quite visible and now they were tabletop stuff you could
510
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:05.079
look at or sit on right, have your coffee on.
511
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.559
And they were about waist high. And we started walking
512
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:12.279
around and looking at them, and we began to realize
513
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.039
that not only I mean, we already knew there was
514
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.119
some rapid tree ring group because of the sampling that
515
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:24.640
had been done in nineteen ninety one when Mike Rogers
516
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:29.039
discovered the trees seemed to be taller on this ridge
517
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:32.039
than they were in the surrounding area is they knew
518
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:34.920
the area well, and they'd been back there many times.
519
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.839
Many of them had gone back on their own, and
520
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.839
the one time they were going there with a film crew,
521
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.839
they weren't quite sure it was the right area because
522
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:45.440
it was in the middle of the snowstorm and they
523
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.640
couldn't see the road or the trail. But the trees
524
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.240
were like way too big in nineteen ninety one, and
525
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:53.880
this was about fifteen years after the event, and Mike
526
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.400
began to think, I better go sample some of these
527
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:58.519
trees and see what's going on, because he could just
528
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:01.680
see the trees were taller. So when we were walking
529
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:04.200
around with Ben Hansen and Travis and I, we all
530
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:06.240
started to look down at these stumps and we all
531
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:09.319
made the same realization at the same time that the
532
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.079
rapid tree ring growth was only on one side of
533
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.920
the tree, right, you know, it was more on one
534
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.880
side than the other. The other hadn't kind of grown
535
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.880
rapidly at all, but the tree ring growth was different
536
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:25.680
on each single tree, which is unique all around in
537
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.079
a circle. And the rapid growth pointed episicentrically to where
538
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:34.480
the craft had been. So we began to think, you know, certainly. Ben,
539
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.640
he's a scientist. He began to think, well, maybe there
540
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.720
was a large amount of radiation exposure that happened. We
541
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.920
know Travis got zapped and probably killed by this huge,
542
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.480
you know bolt of lightning that came out of the craft.
543
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:52.240
Maybe there was some sort of radiation exposure that was
544
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.359
left there that impacted those trees. So Ben started to
545
00:33:57.400 --> 00:33:59.799
do research and we found that there had been a
546
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:03.400
tree there that had been cut before nineteen seventy five.
547
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:06.119
It was probably some big, huge, old oak or something
548
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.559
like that, and it had a huge canopy, probably about
549
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:12.119
a thirty five to forty foot canopy that was probably
550
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.719
about ninety to one hundred and twenty feet high. So
551
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:17.760
when they cut that tree, that canopy left a hole
552
00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:21.679
where the ufocraft came down and was sitting hiding in
553
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.519
the canopy of the trees. It was below the top
554
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:26.800
of the pine trees. That's why when they say it
555
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:29.119
was only twenty feet off the ground and they could
556
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:31.280
throw a stone to hit it, they were right. You know,
557
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:33.440
those trees are about ninety feet high and it was
558
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:36.440
below the tops of the trees. So we walked around,
559
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:40.199
we started to see this and we filmed it quite
560
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:44.800
deliberately and marked it and took pictures of it. And
561
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:49.760
then ben Hansen found that trees around the Chernobyl incident
562
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.639
in Russia that were exposed to very high levels of
563
00:34:55.320 --> 00:35:01.039
radiation when that nuclear plant exploded. Those trees around that
564
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:05.199
forest area where scott pine trees, which are essentially the
565
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:08.519
Ponderosa pine tree. It's the same tree. It's a cousin
566
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:11.480
of each other, right, And that's the majority of the
567
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.639
trees that are there on that movie on rim. So
568
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.800
according to this Polish study that was done on tree
569
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:25.639
rings and how the wood fiber grows, and wood fiber
570
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:28.599
has what we call a weft and a warp. They
571
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:32.880
call it different things like exlam or something like exalam
572
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.360
and phlem or something. I don't know the dendrology terms.
573
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.719
But what happens with radiation exposure is both of those
574
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:47.480
two gross warp and weft are extra stimulated when exposure
575
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:51.400
to radiation occurs. So the trees around Chernobyl grew at
576
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:54.440
a thirty six percent growth rate, which is unheard of.
577
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:59.280
Trees don't grow in a rapid spurt of growth like that. Increase.
578
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:03.719
Sunlight from a tree that's felled or taken down. Exposing
579
00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:07.239
more sunlight will create a ten percent growth, but not
580
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:11.199
a thirty six time or thirty three point three times
581
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:14.920
greater tree ring growth and in both directions of the
582
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:19.960
warp and weft simultaneously. So that was interesting to us.
583
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:24.719
So I actually approached the University of Arizona, where I
584
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:27.159
am an alumni. I have a Bachelor of Science and
585
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.159
Textiles from the University of Arizona, and they have a
586
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:33.320
great tendrology department. So on the day that I was
587
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:37.599
interviewing sy Gilson, who lived just a short distance south
588
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:42.039
of the University of Arizona in Tucson, I stopped at
589
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:47.159
the campus and I had sent this Polish research study
590
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:50.760
that was a from a peer review journal to ten
591
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.079
different heads of the department of the dendrology department. And
592
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:56.840
I didn't identify that I was doing research on a
593
00:36:56.960 --> 00:36:59.400
UFO case. I said, I was an alum and I
594
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.559
was a filmmaker, and I discovered in the process of
595
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.639
my filmmaking this discovery and there was the potential that
596
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.400
it could be radiation. And at that point, when I
597
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:13.039
was married, I had a family foundation where I could
598
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.440
contribute money to the university to do research on this
599
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:18.920
and I asked them if they would meet with me
600
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.000
to look at the data I had and to begin
601
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:26.159
to discuss a research project for the students at the university.
602
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:29.599
I was removed by campus police.
603
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:30.280
No.
604
00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:36.280
Four campus police came in. They knew me by name.
605
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.960
They took my camera, my tripod, and equipment which I
606
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:43.599
didn't bring into film. I brought in because I had
607
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:45.239
a rental car and I didn't want to leave it
608
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:47.679
on campus in the rental car, so I bought it
609
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.239
in because I was carrying equipment that maybe looked like
610
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:55.719
a rifle or something I don't know. And all the
611
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:59.440
heads of the different departments that I had written slammed
612
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:02.199
their doors as soon as I got into the building,
613
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:06.880
and I was removed by campus police and drove off campus.
614
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:11.559
And I was like, okay, all right, So I guess
615
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.719
that further research could really or should still be done.
616
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:20.119
But I'll tell you something else which is really kind
617
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:23.519
of sad and devastating, but it shows the extent that
618
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:27.960
debunkers will go to to destroy the evidence. So I
619
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.159
told you. I went up to the forest December of
620
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:36.360
twenty twenty four with Patrick, James and Travis and one
621
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.880
of Patrick's really nice film assistants, and we got to
622
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:43.840
the site and we started to walk around and all
623
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.719
the tree stumps that had been there in twenty fourteen
624
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:50.679
that showed the rapid growth had had probably I'm guessing
625
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.039
gasoline poured on them. They were set on fire and
626
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:58.559
they were hatcheted apart with a hatchet. There was maybe
627
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.280
one left that they live. Yeah, they were vandelite. So
628
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:06.280
the evidence was attempted to be destroyed. But what this
629
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:11.199
podcaster probably didn't realize is that another wonderful man named
630
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:14.360
Gary Holloway, who was a friend of Travis's and lives
631
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:18.599
in Mississippi, he had cut and taken samples like this
632
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.199
much of those trees in the previous years. So we
633
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:27.719
still do have some evidence around in different homes and
634
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.880
things like that. My film producer co producer Bob Terrio
635
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:34.280
has some in his home, and so there's still the
636
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:36.760
evidence there. So those of us in the know just
637
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.039
kind of sit back and say, oh, okay.
638
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:43.159
You know, Jennifer, it kind of reminds me the analogy
639
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.760
of the going back to the crop circles where they
640
00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:52.280
where certain certain formations were already harvested or moved down
641
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:56.800
mode over right by the farmers, and then the image
642
00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:01.400
of the crop circle was still there. And then there's
643
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:07.239
been research where the the wheat stocks in the formation
644
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:12.199
were actually much more healthier, they grew quicker back compared
645
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:18.199
compared to the outside. Uh forgot the outside controls.
646
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:22.519
Uh, yes, well, And I did sampling right for Nancy
647
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.239
that we worked a full day sun up to sundown.
648
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:28.599
So whenever you sample, you sample inside the formation and
649
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:29.960
then outside the formation.
650
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:34.400
That's what it reminded me of that. And now you're
651
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:38.840
saying that there is some sort of change by based
652
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:43.079
on the exposure whatever energy that the trees were receiving.
653
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:47.599
Yes, well, God blessed William Levingood who did that germination
654
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:51.960
study research on the seeds from various plants. Because he
655
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:55.119
determined that those seeds had been exposed to some sort
656
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:59.000
of radiation or some sort of microwave or something, he
657
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:05.000
was able to duplicate the end result in seed germination studies.
658
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:09.199
So he would take crops from crop circles, you know,
659
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:13.480
on the seeds from inside a crop circle formation and
660
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:16.920
germinate them and see how fast they grew in a
661
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:22.079
twelve day germination chamber. And then he had controls that
662
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:25.920
he would also test and those did not germinate the
663
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.920
same way they were, you know, they grew at maybe
664
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:33.639
a more normal or variegated rate, but not an increased
665
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:38.440
rapid rate as many of the crop circle seeds did grow.
666
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:41.960
But he also discovered that if a crop circle happened
667
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:45.679
early in the germination process where the crop was brand
668
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:48.559
new and just coming out of the ground, the seed
669
00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:52.320
growth was then stunted. It held back the growth of
670
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:56.280
many plants like wheat or barley or soybeans. So I
671
00:41:56.440 --> 00:42:00.679
found that really fascinating. Certainly, the crop circle research that
672
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:06.480
I did with you really got my science sprain ticking,
673
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.920
certainly when I started to read the peer reviewed journals
674
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:12.719
and I started to read about the you know, the
675
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.239
chemical analysis and the changes in the crop and the
676
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:18.639
plant and the soil, you know, the amount of magnetite
677
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:22.000
that was in the soil inside of formation versus outside,
678
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.800
and how you could drag a magnet across the ground.
679
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.280
And yeah, I forgot about that stick.
680
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:29.599
To it right, and it would be dry, It would
681
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:32.800
be as dry as like a dry wall. And yet
682
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:35.199
it could be mundy outside the formation, but it was
683
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:40.199
so totally dry inside. So very very interesting, you know,
684
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:46.679
correlations there when you apply science and theories and you know,
685
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:52.840
tests and thinking and observation, that's really how scientific methodology
686
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:57.320
is formed. You know, you make observations, then you test
687
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:01.199
those observations against a theory, and you prove yourself right
688
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.119
or wrong, and you have to be willing to accept
689
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:07.039
the data one way or the other. And people forget that.
690
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:12.400
Now for the affected crops, are you still able to
691
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:14.639
eat them? Or are they you know, not edible at
692
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:15.199
that point?
693
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:23.039
Actually interesting you mentioned this. William Levinood set up a
694
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:25.360
lab in his home and he would do these germination
695
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:29.039
studies as I was explaining, right, and then he would
696
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:31.880
only do studies for twelve or fourteen days, and then
697
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:34.639
that was his data and he wasn't interested in what
698
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.920
happened next. So he'd dumped them in baggies and put
699
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:42.559
them in his basement, right, and these crops would continue
700
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.000
to grow in his basement. He had like a forest
701
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:48.400
in his basement. And his friends him over like you know,
702
00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:52.719
various people who helped him would come over to his
703
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.440
house and he'd say, can you take out the trash?
704
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:58.599
And they'd go downstairs and say, my god, you've got corn.
705
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.920
You've got barley you've got, and these things were growing
706
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.519
in baggies without sunlight and without water for months in
707
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:11.719
his basement, so that tells you something about the exposure.
708
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:17.320
From his research, he actually patented something called the MRII
709
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:22.840
stress Guard with John Burke, who'd written a book about
710
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:27.119
crop circles and many other things. So John Burke was
711
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:31.280
a geomancy expert sort of an earth science expert. So
712
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:39.679
what they determined was that yes, these crops would grow faster, better, stronger,
713
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.840
resist disease, would not need to use pesticides. If they
714
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:46.960
were exposed to a short burst of radiation. The seed
715
00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:52.840
gets challenged, but then the seed recovers and before it's
716
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:57.920
planted it has stronger durability because the seed has self
717
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:04.400
healed into resting concept huh in a seed, and then
718
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:10.599
that seed is stronger, more resistant to disease, more resistant
719
00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:16.039
to drought, has greater output. Like seedheads of wheat and
720
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:20.880
barley would have maybe ten or fifteen seed heads on it,
721
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:23.639
but the crop circles had twenty to thirty seed heads
722
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.800
on them, so it had greater output. When it didn't
723
00:45:26.840 --> 00:45:28.679
matter what it was. If it was corn, if it
724
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:31.639
was barley, if it was soybean's oil seed rape. It
725
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:35.000
didn't matter. It all had the same effect. So he
726
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:38.039
went and patented something that he was hoping would be
727
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:41.039
a product that would benefit him in his life. And
728
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:44.239
John Burks and it was called the MRI stress Guard.
729
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:47.559
And I think, I don't know, but you know, once
730
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:52.079
Monsanto came out with glyphosates and roundup and made all
731
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.760
our crops round up ready, right, that got dumped in
732
00:45:55.800 --> 00:46:00.880
the trash. But boy, wouldn't that be fantastic? I wonder,
733
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:04.320
I wonder. You know, we always think about the UFO
734
00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:08.880
connection with the crop circles, right, because they're not there
735
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:13.559
the night before and then suddenly they are the next day. Right, So, boy,
736
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:18.639
wouldn't it be interesting if intelligent beings right, we're trying
737
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.920
to give us messages in the field, aggreglyphs in the
738
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:25.920
field to bring us together, get us outside, right, get
739
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:29.800
us walking around a field in amazement, expanding our consciousness
740
00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:32.679
talking about how could this happen? You know, this is incredible.
741
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:35.480
This is a major art in a week field. You know,
742
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:41.840
it's huge. And then the food that is growing in
743
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:46.320
that field is more durable, those seeds that if they
744
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:50.639
get picked up or put into the seed feed starts
745
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:54.400
to generate and create stronger crops that are more durable,
746
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:57.559
that can grow with less water, that are more drought tolerant,
747
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:02.639
that are more insect tolerant. I meant that interesting concept.
748
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:08.239
Yeah, it's amazing that compare the scientific studies from one
749
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:16.239
from plants props to UFOs and then inside the forests.
750
00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:21.440
Area that's called expanded thinking. Right, Yeah, just leave it
751
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:23.199
to Jen to like, you know, go there.
752
00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:27.840
Yeah, something real quickly I wanted to share. Going back
753
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:36.320
to Travis's incident, his experience was the gentleman when they
754
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:41.400
went back to the site and they didn't find its body.
755
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:43.519
They they were searching, they were looking for him, but
756
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:47.840
they all bundled together. They were shoulder to shoulder and
757
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:52.679
looking around that. I was involved in another case. I
758
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:56.960
was helping Washington move on on the el abduction case
759
00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:06.440
where a group of of muggers were working on or
760
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:09.159
we're out there in the field or they were. They
761
00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:12.920
were planting seedlings, and then one of them saw this
762
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:17.320
object picking up an elk, and several of the other
763
00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:19.599
witnesses saw it too, and it took picked up the
764
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:21.360
elk and took it over the row. Of trees and
765
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:25.880
straight up into the sky. And what I remember them
766
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:30.559
telling me was that they were concerned. The rest of
767
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.719
the working crew were very concerned, and so in order
768
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:38.559
for the boss to get them back into doing their job,
769
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:42.719
he had them all bundled together and and they were
770
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:45.559
looking around. They were looking up in the sky, wondering
771
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:47.679
if this thing was going to come back and maybe
772
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:51.960
take a person. And that always reminded me of Travis Walton,
773
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:55.360
you know, the same kind of fear. Even the elk
774
00:48:55.639 --> 00:49:00.280
that did that, they formed a protective circle in so well,
775
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:02.199
here you have a herd of elk, and then here
776
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:06.239
you had these guys were practically just a few feet
777
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.360
away just looking up amazing.
778
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:13.239
Well, that's the logical thing to do, I mean, you know,
779
00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:16.519
it's it doesn't take rocket science to say, well, maybe
780
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:19.199
they have the energy to pick up one, but then
781
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:21.119
to pick up four of us, it's going to be
782
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:25.280
heavier or six of us or whatever. Absolutely, cattle do
783
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:28.159
that all the time. In cattle mutilation stories, you hear
784
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:30.800
this from farmers all the time, that the cattle are
785
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.400
all herded, you know, in the far corner of the
786
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:36.119
field against the fence and the tight, tight tight herd.
787
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:38.880
They don't want anything to do with, you know, the
788
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:43.039
missing where the missing calf, you know, was dropped there
789
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:47.199
far far from it. So yes, these boys were definitely
790
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:50.400
freaked out, all the loggers that that night. I mean,
791
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:52.880
that's why they slammed the door and drove away, because
792
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:56.119
they were convinced Travis was dead. He made no attempt
793
00:49:56.119 --> 00:49:59.400
to break his fall once he landed, so they and
794
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:03.719
Mike Rogers actually was responsible for their lives. I think
795
00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:07.239
he did the right thing, and so does Travis. Travis
796
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:09.800
is convinced that Mike did the right thing by slamming
797
00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:12.199
the door and driving away. And they only went to
798
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:14.440
the top of the Mogion Rim. So they were in
799
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:17.360
a valley, the Turkey Springs Valley, and they weren't really
800
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:21.280
on what you call a road. It was a clearing
801
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.079
to get the truck down there with their equipment, but
802
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:27.800
it wasn't really a road. I mean, it was forest
803
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.800
area and they had to drive around some stuff sometimes
804
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:33.119
to get in and out. And when they got to
805
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:36.360
the top of the mogion Rim. What few people realize,
806
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.400
and I think this is important to note in the
807
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:42.199
Travis story, is that Mike said, I got to go
808
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.000
back and get Travis. I'm the crew boss, I am
809
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:48.159
responsible here. I don't know what I'm facing, but help
810
00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:50.559
me turn the truck around. I'll leave you guys up
811
00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:53.199
here on the Mogion rim because that was a dirt
812
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.719
road and people did traverse that and they were hoping
813
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:59.800
maybe someone would come by with some guns or something
814
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.000
and help them, or they could at least get help
815
00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:04.760
or tell somebody to go for help. They were panicked
816
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:07.119
and some of them were crying. I mean, they were
817
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:09.920
really freaked out. But they could still see the craft
818
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:12.559
below them because they were hop on a rim, and
819
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.840
they could see the light that they had originally seen
820
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:19.679
when they were below the craft approaching it in the valley.
821
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.119
They could see the same light, so they knew the
822
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.320
craft was there. And while they're turning the truck around,
823
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:29.880
the craft flew away, so they knew the craft wasn't there.
824
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:32.559
So they all piled back in the truck to go
825
00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:34.760
back to find Travis because they figured they could all
826
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:38.599
help garry him because they figured he was dead. I mean,
827
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:40.039
they didn't know what they were going to do, and
828
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:42.159
they didn't know how they were going to report it.
829
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:45.719
And you know, there's a million things going through your
830
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:48.800
mind at that moment, but the fact that they all
831
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:51.960
went back and they all kind of were shoulder to
832
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.880
shoulder or arm linked to armlink. They had one flashlight
833
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:58.119
between them. They turned the truck on an angle to
834
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.920
kind of put the light being the truck up on
835
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:06.360
the slight hill that Travis had run up, and they
836
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:09.000
couldn't find him anywhere, and they called him and called
837
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:10.960
him and called him, and some of the guys broke
838
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:14.480
down and cried, you know, they were just freaked out.
839
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:17.760
And then of course they were thinking, how the heck
840
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:23.239
are we going to report this? Right being they like,
841
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:26.800
my gosh, I can't imagine that forty five minute ride
842
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:31.079
down the hill that day, you know, And one of
843
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:36.119
the most honest, forthright religious guys, Kenny Peterson, said, I'll
844
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:39.320
call because I know, beyond of the shadow of a doubt,
845
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:42.320
what's true and what I saw, and I'm not afraid
846
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.119
to stand in my truth. So he volunteered to make
847
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:49.480
the phone call to the police headquarters which was in Holbrook,
848
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:53.039
and it was Marlon Gillespie that got the call, and
849
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:57.039
then he called Chuck Ellison, who lived closer. Because you
850
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.000
have to remember these areas. They're all about thirty miles
851
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:02.840
apart from each other, so it's thirty minute drive back
852
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:06.519
and forth between Wholebrook, Hebert, Snowflake, you know, and where
853
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:08.519
they were working on the MOGI on Rim was another
854
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:10.920
forty five minute switchback up to the top of the
855
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:15.440
Rim from the closest town, which was Heber. So when
856
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:19.719
Marlin called Chuck, Chuck showed up and he was the
857
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:25.039
first one to meet them and started investigating, started, you know,
858
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:28.400
sniffing around, like is there alcohol here? What do you
859
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.199
got beer cans in the back of the truck? What
860
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:34.239
are you smoking? Right? Could he smell marijuana? He he
861
00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:39.000
was just very not so much suspicious, but I would
862
00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:43.800
say investigatively. He put that cap on and said, okay,
863
00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.559
I got to cover all my bases here. Now, what's
864
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:49.559
also really interesting Some of your viewing audience might like
865
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.639
to hear this. Do I have time to just share
866
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:54.239
a quick story or do we need to go to
867
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:54.599
a bot.
868
00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:56.280
Why don't we hop in a break and then when
869
00:53:56.280 --> 00:53:57.880
we come back from the break, we'll help into the story.
870
00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:00.440
Remind me, it's the Chuck Ellison story.
871
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:07.719
Chuck Ellison's story. Perfect, and we're back. You were about
872
00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:10.559
to hop into your Chuck Ellison's story, Jennifer.
873
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:14.239
Yes, So I was explaining that Chuck Ellison was the
874
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:19.639
first deputy on site, and he was smelling around to
875
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:22.320
see if he could pick up an ascent of marijuana,
876
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.559
or looking in the back of the truck, or smelling
877
00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:28.679
the breath of these crew members to see if they
878
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.800
had signs of alcohol or something on them, because he
879
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.639
didn't quite understand how does a crew member go missing.
880
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:38.000
When they got down off the MOGI on Rim that day,
881
00:54:38.079 --> 00:54:41.119
when Travis was hit by this beam and then they
882
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:43.320
couldn't find him when they went back to get them
883
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:45.880
and they had to report in missing, they were like,
884
00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:48.079
oh gosh, you know, how is this story going to
885
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:52.039
go over? So Chuck shows up and he's smelling for everything,
886
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:57.320
and he realizes pretty quickly the temperament of the crew.
887
00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.280
He can tell some of them are shaking, some of
888
00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:03.760
them are crying. He wants them to all go back
889
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:05.559
up on the hill with him and start to look
890
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:09.159
for Travis, which is now it's seven thirty eight o'clock
891
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:12.480
at night. It's dark, right, and none of them want
892
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:16.800
to go back up. But Mike Rogers and I think
893
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:21.960
maybe Alan Dallas agreed to go back up with Chuck
894
00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:26.519
and the rest of the crew went home. One of
895
00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:30.360
them drove Mike Rogers truck home back to Snowflake. So
896
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:36.719
Chuck Ellison was actually kind of sympathetic pretty early on
897
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:41.360
because he had had his own sightings more than one
898
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:46.079
over his twenty five year service. Now, when I interviewed Chuck,
899
00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:49.559
I asked him if he would let me film him
900
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:53.119
and he would answer that question. And he said, no,
901
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:56.119
you have to turn your camera off, but I'll answer
902
00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:58.400
your question, and he did. He told us about some
903
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:02.679
of his sightings, which was an amazing sightings dripping fire
904
00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:07.960
on a train track near near a train in the
905
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:12.920
town of I think Snowflake and you know, cars stopping
906
00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:16.800
to see it and weird, which is weird stuff. Now.
907
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:21.280
The other great thing is when I interviewed Sheriff Marlon
908
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:24.639
Gillespie at his home in the summer of two thousand
909
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:28.559
and fourteen, I thought, I'm just going to jump on
910
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:30.719
this as well and ask him. So I had all
911
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:33.360
the cameras set up, and I had the cameras rolling
912
00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:37.559
while I was testing sound, and I said, Marlin, you know,
913
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:41.119
the one thing I want to know is you're the
914
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:44.679
sheriff here, you have been for whatever forty years? Would
915
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:49.599
you like to share anything unusual that you've seen? Have
916
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:53.440
you had your own encounters as well? And he did.
917
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:58.559
We shared it and he signed my release. So I
918
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:02.920
didn't put his citing that he had in the documentary
919
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:07.440
because it wasn't topic specific to the documentary. I could
920
00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:10.960
have woven it that way, but you know, a filmmaker's
921
00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:14.119
job is to be really hard cutting about what doesn't
922
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:17.639
go in the film and what the film storyline actually is.
923
00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:21.599
But I put that up at the website. So if
924
00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:24.280
you go to Travis waltonthmovie dot com and you go
925
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:28.239
to the debunking page and you find interview with Deputy
926
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:32.800
or Sheriff Marlon Gillespie, it's the first thing off he
927
00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:35.719
says in the interview. And I posted his whole interview
928
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:38.239
there for anyone to watch because I thought that it
929
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:42.320
was really important. And then I've been contacted by several
930
00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:46.920
other film companies and production companies that have now licensed
931
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:48.800
some of that footage because they thought it was such
932
00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:53.199
a good interview. So I loved the fact that these
933
00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:57.719
police officers were actually sympathetic. They couldn't admit it out
934
00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:00.920
to the public because their job is to you know,
935
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:07.000
control the situation, right and in some cases, you know,
936
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:11.639
calm any fear. But there had been a lot of
937
00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:14.719
sightings up in the Snowflake area and it may have
938
00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:17.000
been it may have had something to do with all
939
00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:20.599
the atomic tests that were done in New Mexico. Because
940
00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:24.000
when you look as the crow flies from Trinity over
941
00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:29.320
to the Mogion Rim, maybe you're talking sixty eighty one
942
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:33.519
hundred miles, but as the you know, winds would flow,
943
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:38.599
stuff would land on the rim, probably sooner and fresher
944
00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:44.239
than it would on the lower regional areas. And the
945
00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:47.079
forest is an undisturbed area. So if you wanted to
946
00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:52.079
study what was happening from atomic fallout, maybe that's what
947
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:55.400
the craft was there doing. It's a lot of speculation
948
00:58:55.519 --> 00:58:57.920
has gone into what was the craft doing there and
949
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:02.599
why was it there. And you know, obviously they could
950
00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:06.199
hear the loggers earlier in the day if they had
951
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:09.519
been there before they knew the loggers were there. I mean,
952
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:14.400
it wasn't quiet when you got seven guys with Jamesall's working. Yeah,
953
00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:17.920
so you know, and there was actually a hunter nearby
954
00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:19.679
as well that day. I don't know if you've ever
955
00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:24.199
heard that story, but that's a very interesting one. I mean,
956
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:27.199
I'm I'm happy to share that out of him. So
957
00:59:28.599 --> 00:59:31.639
about I think it was during the time when the
958
00:59:31.679 --> 00:59:36.239
Tracy Tormat film was being made, this incident came up
959
00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:39.440
and Travis learned about it. I don't think he knew
960
00:59:39.440 --> 00:59:43.519
about it before, but I am sure that Marlon Gillespie did.
961
00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:48.039
So what happened is there was an I think he
962
00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:51.559
was an FBI agent, an undercover FBI agent, who was
963
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:55.679
out in the forest in the Mogion Room area in
964
00:59:55.719 --> 00:59:59.199
the Sidgraves National Forest camping, taken a couple of days
965
00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:03.239
off and hunting with his wife, and they were on
966
01:00:03.400 --> 01:00:07.800
an adjacent ridge camping. They weren't hunting per se right there,
967
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:11.440
but they were camping there and they had come back
968
01:00:11.480 --> 01:00:14.920
to their site and they saw the craft. They saw
969
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.119
this bright light in the forest and they thought it
970
01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:20.440
was a fire as well. See, the locking crew knew
971
01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:25.119
it was too bright of a light in the canopy
972
01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:27.519
of the trees to be normal. As soon as they
973
01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:29.719
started to leave the forest, they saw because they were
974
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.039
heading up hill and it was just off to their right,
975
01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:35.519
and they thought it was a plane that maybe had
976
01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:38.079
crashed and was on fire in the canopy of the trees,
977
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:42.840
because it was bright, bright yellowish, you know, fire like
978
01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:47.320
light color, and it was strange, and it wasn't the
979
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:50.079
moon because it was too low. It was in the
980
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:52.719
canopy of the forest right and the moon was behind him,
981
01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.679
and they could see that, and they knew the stars
982
01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:58.239
hadn't quite come out yet, and it wasn't a star
983
01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:05.159
gleaming through. It wasn't Jupiter. So this FBI agent with
984
01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:10.840
his wife called probably other his higher ups in the
985
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:15.519
FBI and said, look, I know these boys could go
986
01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:20.280
to jail for murder, but I saw the same thing
987
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:24.079
they saw their accounts that you have on record. I've
988
01:01:24.079 --> 01:01:26.519
heard through the news, and it's exactly the same thing
989
01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:29.039
my wife and I saw. And I'm willing to come
990
01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:32.639
forward to defend their lives because none of them should
991
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:35.000
go to the electric chair for this. There was a craft,
992
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:37.280
and I saw the craft fly away, and so did
993
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:41.360
my wife, and we're divorced now, but she would come
994
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:44.840
forward and speak. So I never got the name of
995
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.840
this FBI agent, but I did hear that his uppers,
996
01:01:47.880 --> 01:01:51.760
his higher ups, or someone in the police department or
997
01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:56.280
something said, Look, if we need you, you know, we'll
998
01:01:56.320 --> 01:02:00.639
call you, but for the time being, keep your you know,
999
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:07.480
keep yourself hidden, and don't come forward because you're basically,
1000
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:12.159
you know, a secret FBI agent, and coming forward might
1001
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:16.159
expose who you are. Even though he was just their camping,
1002
01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:19.320
it was hard for him to come forward without exposing
1003
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:21.679
who he is, where he works, who he works for,
1004
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:24.840
and it would complicate the story in a way that
1005
01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:27.400
I think federal officials in the government didn't want to
1006
01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:31.000
be connected. So I thought that was very interesting. But
1007
01:02:31.159 --> 01:02:35.599
Tracy Tourmee, met him, interviewed him, found him in California,
1008
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:38.360
interviewed him, and debated whether or not to put that
1009
01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:41.519
in the Fire in the Sky, and he decided not
1010
01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:44.920
to write that into the story because this guy still
1011
01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:47.840
was kind of undercover, and I guess he just felt
1012
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:50.760
like it would expose him if he wrote it into
1013
01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:54.079
the story. But he called him and interviewed him, and
1014
01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:56.639
then he told Travis about it. So I thought that
1015
01:02:56.760 --> 01:03:01.000
was very interesting. I think Tracy found that actual data,
1016
01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:06.119
So it's very interesting, isn't it. Any Like when there's
1017
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:08.920
a really good story, right, the more you dig, the
1018
01:03:08.960 --> 01:03:12.039
more you find, Like Roswell. Right, people keep saying that,
1019
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:15.000
you know, like this has been fifty years, sixty years,
1020
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:17.639
seventy years, you know, and we still keep finding stuff
1021
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:21.400
that comes forward. Letters come out of people's addicts, right,
1022
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:24.639
Books come out of you know, people's closets that they
1023
01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:29.079
wrote but never published, and the deathbed confessions continue to happen.
1024
01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:34.800
Yeah, Jennifer, I was wondering the Native American or the
1025
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:39.400
additionous Indigenous Peak community, the people living in that area,
1026
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:43.639
did they ever share with you their stories?
1027
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:50.360
Are well? Yes, Actually I didn't speak to any Navajo
1028
01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:54.159
Search and Rescue agents who were on site at the time,
1029
01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:59.400
but Navajo Search and Rescue was involved with Travis's hunt,
1030
01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:02.760
which on for I think four full days. He was
1031
01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:05.440
missing five days, but they did call the hunt off
1032
01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:07.599
I think at the end of the fourth day, and
1033
01:04:07.639 --> 01:04:11.480
there were roughly five or six groups of ten to
1034
01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:15.920
fifteen people. So there was at least fifty sixty people
1035
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:18.599
some days one hundred people looking for Travis for those
1036
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:22.119
five days. But I will tell you this, I have
1037
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:26.360
been in touch with two lovely gentlemen who have written
1038
01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:32.400
a book, Stan Milman, I mean, is it? Yeah? Stan
1039
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:37.159
Milman and John Dover have written a book called I
1040
01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:41.639
Think It's Navajo Marshalls speak Out on UFOs, and they're
1041
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:45.679
going to be presenters for me in November for Sedona Mufon.
1042
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:52.119
There are tons of stories from you know, both the Navajo,
1043
01:04:52.639 --> 01:04:57.119
the Sunni, the Pueblo. They for sure have been interacting.
1044
01:04:57.159 --> 01:04:59.239
I mean they refer to them as the Star people,
1045
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:04.559
and they have healing stories, they have visitation stories, and
1046
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:08.159
of course you can see it as well evidenced in
1047
01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:12.800
some of their petroglyphs all throughout the Southwest. So no
1048
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:18.920
doubt there's probably been visitations and study and maybe even
1049
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:25.519
habitation of the earth by other species for probably a millennium.
1050
01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:31.400
But that didn't quite tie in to the Walton story
1051
01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:37.480
per se, because there were no indigenous family members that
1052
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:41.760
came forward that were affected. Although Travis did grow up
1053
01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:45.559
with some step children who I believe were from the
1054
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:49.039
Navajo tribe. His mom was divorced and I think she
1055
01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:52.639
took in two or three foster children, so Travis did
1056
01:05:52.639 --> 01:05:54.719
grow up with some and most people don't know that,
1057
01:05:54.880 --> 01:05:57.360
but I don't know that it's a relevant fact for
1058
01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:01.480
Travis's life, but it's reality. He's still quite friendly and
1059
01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:05.039
close with these people that he considers like family.
1060
01:06:06.440 --> 01:06:06.920
Awesome.
1061
01:06:07.639 --> 01:06:14.079
Yeah, yeah, Juny plans to make any other future documentaries.
1062
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:19.599
Yeah, oh, Alex, that's a big question. You know. I
1063
01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:22.400
always have like the two angels on the shoulders, right,
1064
01:06:22.639 --> 01:06:28.400
this one talking and this one, like we all do I.
1065
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:31.199
You know, people say, Jeny, you really should have produced
1066
01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:35.400
a film about the crop circle, you know research you've done.
1067
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:39.840
And although I did begin one on that subject, I
1068
01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:43.360
had five or six years there of my life that
1069
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:47.679
I kind of lost as my youngest daughter, Juliet suffered
1070
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:54.360
with what we thought was a acoustic neuroma or schwaoma,
1071
01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:57.559
an ear related tumor, which ended up being a little
1072
01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:00.760
more complicated than that. It was a vascular formation in
1073
01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:02.559
the back of her head, and she ended up having
1074
01:07:02.639 --> 01:07:06.000
multiple surgeries and we almost lost her a couple times,
1075
01:07:06.039 --> 01:07:08.119
and she was in a coma for a short period.
1076
01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:12.599
So that kind of interrupted my crop circle research as
1077
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:17.639
it should, right as it should, and that once that
1078
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:22.119
period of my life was through, I think the stress
1079
01:07:22.199 --> 01:07:25.760
that I experienced during that period of time just made
1080
01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:27.760
me want to kind of take a deep breath and
1081
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:32.639
go to the garden and you know, practice more yoga
1082
01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:36.440
and meditate and find the gratitude that I had for
1083
01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:40.880
her wellness. So but I probably still have a drop
1084
01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:45.280
circle video I haven't made that's under my belt, and
1085
01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:49.719
I have worked on other projects and supported other projects
1086
01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:53.840
that deal with things like ESP recognition, things like that,
1087
01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:57.960
which are a great interest of mine. But making a
1088
01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:03.039
film is a huge undertaking, both financially and time wise,
1089
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:08.000
and it's just really tricky right to sit down and
1090
01:08:08.599 --> 01:08:11.039
spend hours and hours and hours in front of your laptop.
1091
01:08:11.079 --> 01:08:15.559
It's a digital nightmare trying to collect everything right and
1092
01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:21.039
edit and file the different things you need. So for
1093
01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:24.560
the time being, I am working and supporting Ron James
1094
01:08:24.640 --> 01:08:28.439
and Movefon Television, which I helped to develop. Ron and
1095
01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:35.000
I started envisioning mofon TV way back in two thousand
1096
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:38.039
and eight. In two thousand in fact, I wrote a
1097
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:42.079
business plan for that for Mofon and for Ron and
1098
01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:46.840
very much helped to finance the underwriting of that for
1099
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:50.920
five years before Moveon' still evaluate and was willing to
1100
01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:53.760
really get behind it. And now it's self supporting, which
1101
01:08:53.840 --> 01:08:55.840
is what we had always intended it to be. That's
1102
01:08:55.840 --> 01:09:00.640
what the business plan was. So fel like I've made
1103
01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:03.520
a couple contributions and a few important I surely have,
1104
01:09:04.039 --> 01:09:09.079
and I might like to just think about retiring and
1105
01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:12.399
having some more fun. I try to ski every year
1106
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:17.600
and try to find gardens to hang out in in
1107
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:21.199
the summer, as I miss my garden in Philadelphia a
1108
01:09:21.199 --> 01:09:24.319
great deal. So I don't know. I think I'm going
1109
01:09:24.399 --> 01:09:27.359
to be maybe looking at an eco village or a
1110
01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:32.119
garden or working with the earth more so in the
1111
01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:36.119
future than making another documentary film. But who knows, right,
1112
01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:38.239
who knows?
1113
01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:41.920
I think I was reading or you mentioned that you're
1114
01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:46.560
looking at. Hopefully they may air the documentary on Netflix
1115
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:48.000
and a couple of others.
1116
01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:52.399
Well, actually, I have to say I think Netflix passed
1117
01:09:52.439 --> 01:09:57.039
on it, but we are on something like eighty five
1118
01:09:57.079 --> 01:10:02.800
streaming platforms around the world. Film is in five or
1119
01:10:02.960 --> 01:10:07.039
well four major languages, plus than English subtitles on the bottom,
1120
01:10:07.319 --> 01:10:12.399
so people who speak Spanish or Portuguese. I think we
1121
01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:15.760
have it in Italian, and we have it in French,
1122
01:10:16.399 --> 01:10:20.560
and we have in English subtitles and Japanese. So I
1123
01:10:20.600 --> 01:10:26.880
also have it in the Czech language or for or
1124
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:29.880
for Greece. What language do they speak in Greece? I
1125
01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:33.439
forget what language that is, but someone has translated it
1126
01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:36.920
as well for the country of Greece. I haven't yet
1127
01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:43.319
gotten it up there, but anyway, it's out there. It
1128
01:10:43.439 --> 01:10:47.439
does well on streaming platforms, and I get a lot
1129
01:10:47.479 --> 01:10:50.479
of emails and you know, from people constantly who see
1130
01:10:50.520 --> 01:10:52.560
it from the first time and didn't know the story
1131
01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:57.039
and are moved and inspired by it. But I don't,
1132
01:10:58.239 --> 01:11:01.319
you know, uh, I think the days of trying to
1133
01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:03.920
get it. It's on Amazon Prime, so you know, Amazon
1134
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:06.479
Prime and Netflix, you know, kind of like go neck
1135
01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:08.319
and neck, and they kind of compete with each other.
1136
01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:10.640
So if one picks it up, the other one doesn't
1137
01:11:10.680 --> 01:11:13.560
necessarily want to carry it, and I think that's why.
1138
01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:16.119
But I will tell you what was very interesting, this
1139
01:11:16.199 --> 01:11:20.359
is the power of debunkers. In twenty twenty one, when
1140
01:11:20.439 --> 01:11:24.399
the Erica Luke Show kind of in April kind of
1141
01:11:24.439 --> 01:11:28.439
took a veered turn, and Ryan Gordon was a main
1142
01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:31.840
influencer of that, and he was the one that was
1143
01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:35.960
starting to bring out what he called evidence that Travis
1144
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.760
was a juvenile delinquent and that the boys all saw
1145
01:11:38.920 --> 01:11:43.000
a fire tower, and you know, various things like that
1146
01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:50.159
that he was promoting. We did experience Amazon Prime taking
1147
01:11:50.199 --> 01:11:53.359
it offline for a while, and I had to work
1148
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:59.039
with my attorneys and say, prove that this is incorrect
1149
01:11:59.479 --> 01:12:01.760
or put it back up, because you would get a
1150
01:12:01.800 --> 01:12:06.319
message that's this is a controversial, you know film piece
1151
01:12:06.399 --> 01:12:09.960
that's uh not not documented as real. But you know,
1152
01:12:10.159 --> 01:12:14.520
you have seven people that all witness a murder. Right,
1153
01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:18.800
that's a slam dunk deal, right, No, no question asked.
1154
01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:21.359
That person's going to the jail or the electric chair
1155
01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:24.279
or whatever if you've got seven witnesses. But if you
1156
01:12:24.319 --> 01:12:27.920
have seven witnesses that I'll see a UFO, well that's
1157
01:12:28.039 --> 01:12:31.319
like that doesn't exist, so that can't be true. So
1158
01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:35.960
it's very interesting. It's finally now back up on Amazon Prime.
1159
01:12:36.439 --> 01:12:40.800
But you know that, you know, was time consuming and
1160
01:12:40.880 --> 01:12:47.439
costly and unnecessary. Right. So that's the damage that debunkers do,
1161
01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:53.720
and it's unfortunate and many, many, many filmmakers like me
1162
01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:59.159
encounter the same sort of thing. You know, you get
1163
01:12:59.159 --> 01:13:01.279
a deal in one and then it ends up really
1164
01:13:01.319 --> 01:13:03.560
not being a deal, and it's really taking the film
1165
01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:05.760
out of the public domain rather than putting it in
1166
01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:09.520
the public domain. And I've been through this with many
1167
01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:14.279
well known documentary filmmakers who sing their legal you know,
1168
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:18.039
sad story to me, and I'm like, yes, I do understand.
1169
01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:22.479
It's very very hard. It's very hard to tell the truth. Yeah,
1170
01:13:22.720 --> 01:13:24.960
people kind of like they just don't want to hear.
1171
01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:35.760
Its curious, Jennifer that as we're approaching fifty years, is
1172
01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:42.119
there something that you could say that really well, I'll
1173
01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:46.000
trying to say, is you know, these fifty years been
1174
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:51.920
quite extraordinary, an extraordinary case that effective a number of people.
1175
01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:54.720
What have been some of the learnings from that?
1176
01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:03.520
I would say, try. You know, Travis and these crew
1177
01:14:03.520 --> 01:14:10.359
members have never ever changed their story. So over time
1178
01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:14.119
as we get older, I think what continues to grow
1179
01:14:14.199 --> 01:14:17.159
for us is our ability to grow our own integrity.
1180
01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:24.159
And I don't know anyone who has grown their personal
1181
01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:29.479
integrity more than someone like Travis Walton because he had
1182
01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:33.600
no choice in coming forward. He had to anyway because
1183
01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:37.199
he was missing and the police were trying to find him.
1184
01:14:37.279 --> 01:14:40.800
And then when he didn't come forward right away and
1185
01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:44.600
his brother tried to protect him, he was accused of
1186
01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:49.199
trying to hide information. But he was under such stress
1187
01:14:49.239 --> 01:14:52.720
and confusion that you know, he had to go within.
1188
01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:57.079
And as I look back on the archival footage, which
1189
01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:00.800
I will be sharing some really interesting arch footage at
1190
01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:04.560
the conference. I never got permission to be able to
1191
01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:08.520
use it so much like in a documentary, but as
1192
01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:12.199
a news cast piece, I can share some of it.
1193
01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:17.319
And you see this young man who really grows over time.
1194
01:15:17.960 --> 01:15:22.159
And I think that's what's important about honoring Travis at
1195
01:15:22.159 --> 01:15:26.680
this landmark at the fifty year anniversary. Because we don't
1196
01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:30.680
live forever, you know, time is limited. It's important to
1197
01:15:31.840 --> 01:15:34.880
pay attention to the truth, pay attention to the facts,
1198
01:15:35.159 --> 01:15:38.520
and pay attention to who you resonate with, who you trust,
1199
01:15:39.119 --> 01:15:44.680
and to whom you feel has clear integrity, which is
1200
01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:49.039
what you were mentioning earlier to me, Reuben, because that's
1201
01:15:49.479 --> 01:15:54.039
everyone who encounters Travis feels that they know it. They
1202
01:15:54.119 --> 01:15:57.359
know it in their deep inner sense. And I think
1203
01:15:57.560 --> 01:16:02.880
as we grow, we develop our ability to have that
1204
01:16:03.079 --> 01:16:06.279
inner knowing, that inner sense of reasoning. Although there are
1205
01:16:06.319 --> 01:16:10.720
many influences that push fear right in our face, right fear, fear,
1206
01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:14.920
fear all the time. But I think what we all
1207
01:16:14.960 --> 01:16:18.760
have to do is find that strength like Travis found,
1208
01:16:19.680 --> 01:16:24.000
and you know, find a way to you know, walk
1209
01:16:24.079 --> 01:16:28.199
our path forward in our integrity. And all the members
1210
01:16:28.239 --> 01:16:31.199
of the crew have done that, but they have been
1211
01:16:31.319 --> 01:16:34.800
attacked and pulled apart and had debunkers take things that
1212
01:16:34.840 --> 01:16:37.000
they've said and change it and edit it, just like
1213
01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:39.840
Philip Class used to do. He'd record something and then
1214
01:16:40.039 --> 01:16:42.199
take out part of it and then put the words
1215
01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:44.840
together in a different way and make something that somebody
1216
01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:47.479
never said, or change the whole meaning or intention of
1217
01:16:47.479 --> 01:16:51.720
what someone said to confuse the public. And that continues
1218
01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:55.720
to go on today and unless people really get that,
1219
01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:00.840
really think twice. Even with you know, the news that
1220
01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:04.840
we hear these days, they're so we're living in an
1221
01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:09.800
AI boom, as you probably know, and it's changing the
1222
01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:15.000
way we understand the nature of reality because depending on
1223
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:17.800
what we look for, we only get back what we're
1224
01:17:17.840 --> 01:17:21.279
looking for, and our computers and our Google search engines
1225
01:17:21.319 --> 01:17:24.079
and those algorithms want to please us, right, so we
1226
01:17:24.159 --> 01:17:27.000
only get what we already think is real, and then
1227
01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:30.640
we get to believe something that may not really be true.
1228
01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:34.479
And that is really the precipice that we stand on
1229
01:17:34.720 --> 01:17:37.319
right now. And that's why I thought it was really
1230
01:17:37.359 --> 01:17:42.800
important to see if we could host a fiftieth anniversary conference.
1231
01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:45.760
And since I was doing Sidona Mufon programs, I thought, well,
1232
01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:48.239
maybe I could pull it off just there in Sidona,
1233
01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:54.000
And I think going forward, this is what the learning
1234
01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:58.039
experience is for all of us, certainly in the UFO field.
1235
01:18:00.079 --> 01:18:03.319
It has been for the guys who are experiencers, like
1236
01:18:03.359 --> 01:18:05.760
the guys in this logging crew, they've all had to
1237
01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:09.119
do that deep soul searching themselves and know who they
1238
01:18:09.199 --> 01:18:13.520
can trust, who they can't. Why it's important to have
1239
01:18:13.640 --> 01:18:18.640
trust and how you want to live your life going forward.
1240
01:18:20.680 --> 01:18:24.399
To me, I think that's the most important thing. That's
1241
01:18:24.520 --> 01:18:29.439
my takeaway, right because we all get great challenges in
1242
01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:35.319
our lives, some we don't expect. And finding the courage
1243
01:18:35.359 --> 01:18:38.079
and the strength to face those challenges with love in
1244
01:18:38.159 --> 01:18:44.039
your heart, gratitude and peace of mind, and then bringing
1245
01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:47.880
joy and knowledge and educating others around you and inspiring
1246
01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:50.560
others around you is the great gift we all have
1247
01:18:50.640 --> 01:18:54.199
the potential of doing. And that's what I hope this
1248
01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:59.520
conference will do. And actually I'm happy to talk a
1249
01:18:59.560 --> 01:19:01.119
little bit about the conference.
1250
01:19:01.720 --> 01:19:03.600
Yeah, please, your audience.
1251
01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:06.359
Would like to know. So we decided we were going
1252
01:19:06.399 --> 01:19:10.600
to show accidental truth. We put a subtitle together for
1253
01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:15.479
the conference called Secrecy to Transparency because we've been living
1254
01:19:15.520 --> 01:19:18.960
with eighty five years or what eighty years of secrecy, right,
1255
01:19:19.520 --> 01:19:22.439
and now the last five years. Okay, yes we can
1256
01:19:22.439 --> 01:19:25.119
talk about UFOs. They're real, And how do you do
1257
01:19:25.199 --> 01:19:29.119
that to your out, you know, to the American public.
1258
01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:32.199
You've been debunking a subject for seventy five years and
1259
01:19:32.239 --> 01:19:35.920
now you're like, oh, yeah, you know that's real. Need
1260
01:19:36.279 --> 01:19:39.439
there's a big blank spased there. That's a seventy five
1261
01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:45.039
year gap of education. So we thought secrecy to transparency
1262
01:19:45.159 --> 01:19:49.479
was a great subline. And this is the format or
1263
01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:51.960
the trajectory of the conference. It's kind of like a
1264
01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:56.279
bell curve. So we start with Accidental Truth, which takes
1265
01:19:56.359 --> 01:20:00.920
place at the beginning of twenty seventeen. We sell Asonzo
1266
01:20:01.039 --> 01:20:04.560
stepping out of the Pentagon and talking about the Advanced
1267
01:20:05.079 --> 01:20:10.600
Aero Threat Identification Program a TIP, and what proceeds from there,
1268
01:20:10.760 --> 01:20:16.520
the governmental hearings that have taken place, the testimonies, the whistleblowers,
1269
01:20:16.960 --> 01:20:19.880
and the backlash that they've experienced. So this is how
1270
01:20:19.920 --> 01:20:23.079
we begin the conference because we're trying to bring people
1271
01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:27.800
into a big picture awareness of the UFO phenomenon. And
1272
01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:30.680
then we kind of step back into history. So then
1273
01:20:30.840 --> 01:20:33.600
we have Don Schmidt. Well, first we have Stacey Wright
1274
01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:36.920
talking about not only just move on and opening the
1275
01:20:36.960 --> 01:20:41.319
conference and welcoming everyone as the state director of Arizona,
1276
01:20:41.720 --> 01:20:45.439
but we also have her talking about the Onanaki and
1277
01:20:45.640 --> 01:20:49.079
a little bit about the ancient history past of UFOs
1278
01:20:49.079 --> 01:20:53.560
and Sumerian culture and things like that. And then we
1279
01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:57.199
tie it into what's going on currently the number of
1280
01:20:57.199 --> 01:21:00.279
sightings as we were mentioning before in Canada and the
1281
01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:02.920
United States, and the number that don't get reported and
1282
01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:07.079
why and what Muffon does. From there, Don Schmidt takes
1283
01:21:07.079 --> 01:21:09.640
the floor. Well, then I'm going to show a short
1284
01:21:09.640 --> 01:21:12.880
little clip about the nuclear bombs and what it was
1285
01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:18.399
like for certain gis on a ship based outside in
1286
01:21:18.960 --> 01:21:25.279
outside of Nagasaki witness that explosion really is the turning
1287
01:21:25.359 --> 01:21:28.399
point and if people hear the first hand experience of
1288
01:21:28.439 --> 01:21:31.000
what it was like for them, I think that's powerful.
1289
01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:34.680
And that's like three minutes, four minutes. Then Don Schmidt
1290
01:21:34.720 --> 01:21:36.279
is going to take the floor and he's going to
1291
01:21:36.359 --> 01:21:40.439
talk about Rosweld and everything went on with the five
1292
01:21:40.520 --> 01:21:43.479
h ninth bomb squad and why they were the most
1293
01:21:43.520 --> 01:21:48.359
highly trained military installation at the time and what was
1294
01:21:48.399 --> 01:21:51.359
going on with radar and what probably really happened at
1295
01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:56.680
Rosweld that people probably know about, but they've it's been
1296
01:21:56.720 --> 01:21:59.840
debunked for so long they don't know what to believe, right,
1297
01:22:00.319 --> 01:22:03.840
So we'll talk about roth Well and then from there
1298
01:22:04.479 --> 01:22:09.479
I believe that afternoon is going to be. Oh. Then
1299
01:22:09.680 --> 01:22:12.239
we have David Hatcher Childish that's right. I knew there
1300
01:22:12.279 --> 01:22:15.920
was another Greek And David, of course is an expert
1301
01:22:16.479 --> 01:22:20.439
on the Nazis and the Second World War agenda that
1302
01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:23.840
moved to Antarctica. So he's going to be talking about
1303
01:22:23.840 --> 01:22:28.520
what happened when World War Two ended, where the Nazis went,
1304
01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:32.159
who they were working with, and what was that story
1305
01:22:32.199 --> 01:22:36.279
about Admiral Bird with fourteen ships in nineteen forty seven
1306
01:22:36.319 --> 01:22:40.000
that goes to Antarctica and returns with loss of life
1307
01:22:40.039 --> 01:22:44.399
and ship damage and a story, right, what's that about?
1308
01:22:44.479 --> 01:22:48.000
So we're kind of like really marking what happened in
1309
01:22:48.039 --> 01:22:51.760
the Second World War and Admiral Bird Lee and Antarctica.
1310
01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:56.600
And then that brings us up to us talking about
1311
01:22:56.600 --> 01:23:01.039
the Travis Waltenstorf as a major piece. And that's all
1312
01:23:01.119 --> 01:23:05.159
day Saturday. Then Sunday morning people have off they can.
1313
01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:09.960
It's a church where we're having the conference, so church
1314
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:12.920
services happen, so everybody has Sunday morning off to sleep
1315
01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:16.439
in and digest and take a hike see Sedona connect
1316
01:23:16.439 --> 01:23:20.000
with other people. Then at noon, Don Schmidt is going
1317
01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:22.520
to come back and talk about Jay allen Heinich and
1318
01:23:22.600 --> 01:23:26.000
the Bluebears, because that's the next section of history, right
1319
01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:29.760
and how Jay allen Heinich had to debunk the subject,
1320
01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:33.640
and then what happens when he leaves and starts KUFOS,
1321
01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:36.960
the Center for UFO Studies which still exists today, in
1322
01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:40.960
which Don ran for many years after Jay allen Heineck's passing.
1323
01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:44.880
Then we have Melinda Leslie talking about what's going on
1324
01:23:45.119 --> 01:23:49.560
right under the ground in Sedona about underground bases and
1325
01:23:49.680 --> 01:23:53.640
work and research she's done with Ross Colhart. And then
1326
01:23:54.199 --> 01:23:58.720
we may have a new surprise guest who may come
1327
01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:02.960
in to do closure at the conference and direct our panel.
1328
01:24:04.520 --> 01:24:07.520
And I know that they are available. I haven't completely
1329
01:24:07.560 --> 01:24:10.199
discussed it with them, but I love them dearly, and
1330
01:24:10.239 --> 01:24:14.079
I think they'd really like to come. That's JJ and desires.
1331
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:17.239
They'll be in Sedona and they would love to come
1332
01:24:17.279 --> 01:24:19.119
to the conference. So I think I'm going to have
1333
01:24:19.239 --> 01:24:24.920
them close the Sunday evening conference, directing our panel and
1334
01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:28.079
pointing where we need to look in the future, because
1335
01:24:28.159 --> 01:24:31.920
JJ is like, you know, a spiritual mentor in the
1336
01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:36.840
UFO field has such wisdom to impart. So it's designed
1337
01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:40.279
to be a really moving experience for everyone who comes.
1338
01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:43.640
I mean, you're going to walk away from this conference
1339
01:24:44.079 --> 01:24:48.079
with a breath of insight that if you know something
1340
01:24:48.239 --> 01:24:51.239
or you know nothing about the UFO field, it should
1341
01:24:51.319 --> 01:24:55.119
be touching and you should, you know, come away with
1342
01:24:55.159 --> 01:25:00.399
a better understanding and hopefully have a positive feeling about
1343
01:25:01.000 --> 01:25:05.920
our potential interaction with intelligent species. Because I fear, as
1344
01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:11.199
many do, that we will be sold a story that
1345
01:25:11.359 --> 01:25:13.800
we are being invaded by aliens and that's why the
1346
01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:16.479
world has to unite and fight against them, and we
1347
01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:19.479
need more money for military operations and spending. I mean,
1348
01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:24.880
isn't this what von Braun warned against. He told us
1349
01:25:24.960 --> 01:25:28.039
many things we would be fighting against, including a war
1350
01:25:28.119 --> 01:25:30.880
on terror and things like this, and a war on
1351
01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:35.800
drugs and a war on cancer. And now we're going
1352
01:25:35.840 --> 01:25:39.199
to have a war on the aliens. So I think
1353
01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:42.359
people need to take a deep breath, like I was
1354
01:25:42.399 --> 01:25:45.760
talking about before, develop trust and inner integrity and not
1355
01:25:45.880 --> 01:25:48.680
necessarily be fooled that they're going to be told that story.
1356
01:25:48.800 --> 01:25:51.399
I think that's very important. So that's how I hope
1357
01:25:51.399 --> 01:25:53.600
to end the conference. Then we have a lovely dinner
1358
01:25:53.600 --> 01:25:55.720
in Ta La Capake if people want to sign up
1359
01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:59.159
for that, and the close of the conference happens Monday morning.
1360
01:25:59.199 --> 01:26:02.119
And this I'm very excited about. So some of you
1361
01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:05.199
may know about the New Paradigm Institute set up by
1362
01:26:05.239 --> 01:26:08.560
Jim Garrison, and last year he started the very first
1363
01:26:08.640 --> 01:26:12.279
ever UFO Awareness Day, which is always going to be
1364
01:26:12.640 --> 01:26:18.079
October twentieth. So our conference ends October twentieth, and we
1365
01:26:18.119 --> 01:26:23.439
will be part of the New Paradigm Institute's World Disclosure Day.
1366
01:26:23.720 --> 01:26:29.279
So that's different presenters from around the world talking about
1367
01:26:29.319 --> 01:26:33.079
the importance of acknowledging the UFO phenomenon, doing it with
1368
01:26:33.199 --> 01:26:36.840
courage and with grace and with heart centered compassion for
1369
01:26:37.119 --> 01:26:40.560
the reality shift that it makes for us right as
1370
01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:46.000
human beings, and not being afraid to address the truth.
1371
01:26:46.119 --> 01:26:50.479
And then different watch parties, of which we will be one.
1372
01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:53.439
There's probably about three or four watch parties that will
1373
01:26:53.439 --> 01:26:56.000
tune in and give a message. And Don Smith will
1374
01:26:56.039 --> 01:26:59.479
be giving our message from our watch party. So that's
1375
01:26:59.479 --> 01:27:02.479
a great way to end the conference on a positive
1376
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:06.239
note with connecting with people all around the world. So,
1377
01:27:06.359 --> 01:27:08.159
you know, this vision just kind of came to me
1378
01:27:08.560 --> 01:27:11.760
after I saw last year's conference and I was trying
1379
01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:14.439
to think about, well, how could I pull off a
1380
01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:17.359
fiftieth anniversary conference, and what would be the point and
1381
01:27:17.399 --> 01:27:19.600
the purpose and should I put my time and energy
1382
01:27:19.600 --> 01:27:21.680
into it, because I'm probably just going to break even
1383
01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:24.600
doing it, you know, and should we try to focus
1384
01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:27.840
on this? And I said yes, I mean I watched
1385
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.399
the New Paradigm Institute's World Disclosure Day last year and
1386
01:27:31.439 --> 01:27:35.159
I went that's it. I grabbed the calendar, looked at
1387
01:27:35.199 --> 01:27:37.800
next year, figured out when that date was, and I
1388
01:27:37.840 --> 01:27:40.159
booked the conference around that because I thought that was
1389
01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:43.760
the most important way to end it. And so anyone
1390
01:27:43.840 --> 01:27:46.880
who comes, you know, you don't have to come to
1391
01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:49.800
the conference to tune into that. Anyone can google the
1392
01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:52.720
New Paradigm Institute and connect with that, And even if
1393
01:27:52.720 --> 01:27:56.039
they can't come to the conference, I would highly encourage
1394
01:27:56.079 --> 01:27:59.960
them to tune into the New Paradigm Institute's World Disclosure
1395
01:28:00.640 --> 01:28:03.920
And that will be Monday from about ten till about
1396
01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:08.279
noon on October twentieth, and then our conference ends and
1397
01:28:08.520 --> 01:28:12.000
people can go out to lunch with newfound friends. They
1398
01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:14.319
can drive home, or they can spend another night in
1399
01:28:14.399 --> 01:28:19.319
Sedona if they want. So that's that's the plan. And
1400
01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:24.279
then on the actual anniversary, which is November fifth, the
1401
01:28:24.359 --> 01:28:27.840
Sedona Film Festival has decided that they would like to
1402
01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:32.720
host Travis and do a screening of my film Sope
1403
01:28:32.760 --> 01:28:36.479
and I will be there on November fifth in Sedona again,
1404
01:28:36.520 --> 01:28:39.520
which is about two weeks later. We'll be screening three
1405
01:28:39.560 --> 01:28:43.239
pm and seven pm the film, and we'll do Q
1406
01:28:43.399 --> 01:28:46.479
and A and you know, we'll probably go out to
1407
01:28:46.520 --> 01:28:49.439
dinner afterwards as well. If anyone wants to join us,
1408
01:28:49.479 --> 01:28:52.880
they're welcome to. And I already know some people coming
1409
01:28:52.920 --> 01:28:56.319
in from Canada and from Philadelphia and California just for
1410
01:28:56.399 --> 01:29:00.079
the screening. They want to be there. You know, I
1411
01:29:00.079 --> 01:29:02.039
want to be with Travis on this anniversary and they
1412
01:29:02.039 --> 01:29:06.000
want to celebrate with him. So that's the goal. And
1413
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:10.199
really it's about recognizing all the members of the crew
1414
01:29:11.239 --> 01:29:18.039
and helping them, you know, celebrate and recognize the contribution
1415
01:29:18.199 --> 01:29:23.319
they've made, because it's been a huge contribution. I mean,
1416
01:29:23.359 --> 01:29:25.479
don't you agree, Oh.
1417
01:29:27.800 --> 01:29:31.319
Go go ahead, Alex, No, you go first, You go first.
1418
01:29:31.920 --> 01:29:36.479
I mean just listening to you and all the work
1419
01:29:36.520 --> 01:29:40.960
that's involved in a coordination and it's just a lot
1420
01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:41.399
of work.
1421
01:29:41.439 --> 01:29:44.720
And oh you know it. You know you've helped run
1422
01:29:44.800 --> 01:29:48.680
symposiums do and yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a huge amount
1423
01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:48.920
of work.
1424
01:29:49.079 --> 01:29:49.239
Well.
1425
01:29:49.279 --> 01:29:51.760
I do have some experience because I did the twenty
1426
01:29:51.840 --> 01:29:56.560
fourteen and the twenty eighteen move On Symposium and Cherry Hill,
1427
01:29:56.840 --> 01:29:59.640
so I have a little bit of experience. And I
1428
01:29:59.720 --> 01:30:02.000
was a former event coordinator. So if I don't know,
1429
01:30:02.439 --> 01:30:04.319
if I don't get a right, shame on me. Right.
1430
01:30:05.479 --> 01:30:07.000
So it's going to be it's going to be a
1431
01:30:07.079 --> 01:30:09.039
very successful event. Yeah.
1432
01:30:09.039 --> 01:30:12.720
And it's not large. It's not large. We only have
1433
01:30:12.800 --> 01:30:15.199
one hundred and sixty five seats that I wanted.
1434
01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:18.760
To share with you. Wow. Really okay, Yeah.
1435
01:30:18.520 --> 01:30:21.800
It's in a church, it's in a small end. Yeah.
1436
01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:24.319
I wanted to make it easy. I wasn't going to, like,
1437
01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:26.840
you know, try to get a thousand people there. It's
1438
01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:30.560
just you know, I'm ready to retire.
1439
01:30:31.279 --> 01:30:41.159
Right, Yeah you want to. I was going to and yeah,
1440
01:30:41.359 --> 01:30:44.399
I was going to share with both of you when
1441
01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:48.119
we were talking about how these small communities, these small
1442
01:30:48.199 --> 01:30:54.399
towns are putting together festivals and both my good friend
1443
01:30:54.560 --> 01:30:58.039
Noe Totis and I work together with the city of
1444
01:30:58.079 --> 01:31:03.239
Prestidio and we put on a conference that was centered
1445
01:31:03.239 --> 01:31:07.319
around the Mexico's Roswell, the case that happened of a
1446
01:31:07.319 --> 01:31:10.680
small plane at crash with the UFO over on the
1447
01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:15.439
Mixan side of the border, about forty miles from Prosidio.
1448
01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:21.039
So we had a conference, and we have invited Travis
1449
01:31:21.079 --> 01:31:26.920
to be a speaker on several occasions. And I remember
1450
01:31:28.079 --> 01:31:30.760
I had to go pick up Travis at al Paso
1451
01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:37.600
Airport and I rented this red Impala there really beautiful car, right,
1452
01:31:38.600 --> 01:31:42.720
and then at dawna mass it it takes about four
1453
01:31:42.760 --> 01:31:48.439
hours to derive from al Paso to Presidio, and I
1454
01:31:48.479 --> 01:31:53.079
thought to myself, how am I can I keep Travis
1455
01:31:53.199 --> 01:31:57.039
entertained or just but what we were going to talk about,
1456
01:31:57.079 --> 01:32:00.880
you know, And then as we're driving, I said, I
1457
01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:06.239
didn't have to say anything. He just talked and shared,
1458
01:32:06.319 --> 01:32:09.560
and I thought, man, this is is better than a conference.
1459
01:32:09.640 --> 01:32:13.199
You know, I haven't been in the car seat and
1460
01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:22.239
I think somebody somebody's walking in so anyway, thank you,
1461
01:32:22.920 --> 01:32:23.319
all right?
1462
01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:27.239
So anyway, just like when you and I had that
1463
01:32:27.439 --> 01:32:30.399
chance to be in a car for a week, and yeah, yeah,
1464
01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:34.600
when you get when you get bright minds together who
1465
01:32:34.640 --> 01:32:39.920
are thinking about bos like you, it's an incredible experience.
1466
01:32:40.159 --> 01:32:43.479
And I've had the same encounter. I've gotten to drive
1467
01:32:44.159 --> 01:32:49.319
many places now with Travis, across Pennsylvania and up into
1468
01:32:49.399 --> 01:32:52.600
New York State and up into New England as well,
1469
01:32:53.079 --> 01:32:56.920
and there's never a dull moment. That's what's so impressive
1470
01:32:56.960 --> 01:33:02.880
about Travis. His mind is, you know, very articulate, very bright,
1471
01:33:03.199 --> 01:33:07.359
and he's a very deep thinker on many, many, many
1472
01:33:07.720 --> 01:33:12.960
jecks and that's what's fascinating to me. So and of
1473
01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:19.640
course he now has something like eighteen grandchildren really wow. Yes,
1474
01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:23.319
and they're all kind of in the northern Arizona area
1475
01:33:23.439 --> 01:33:25.840
mostly some are down here in Phoenix, but many of
1476
01:33:25.840 --> 01:33:28.680
them are up there. So he has a large extended
1477
01:33:28.720 --> 01:33:32.159
family that's very loving and a lot of them are musicians.
1478
01:33:32.600 --> 01:33:40.359
And there's young grandson named JP I believe his name is.
1479
01:33:40.439 --> 01:33:44.119
He's with him right now in Montreal where he's going
1480
01:33:44.239 --> 01:33:47.840
to shoot some sort of interview up there. In fact,
1481
01:33:47.880 --> 01:33:50.119
I just got a text they just landed at the
1482
01:33:50.159 --> 01:33:54.479
airport nice. So it's wonderful that he has this large
1483
01:33:54.520 --> 01:33:59.319
extended family that has accepted this reality, and his grandchildren
1484
01:33:59.359 --> 01:34:04.079
will go on to be those that stand in the
1485
01:34:04.119 --> 01:34:09.319
shoes of Travis's story, as you know, honoring their grandfather
1486
01:34:09.479 --> 01:34:12.760
and knowing him as just a real down to earth guy,
1487
01:34:13.039 --> 01:34:14.920
you know, who they can call to come over and
1488
01:34:14.960 --> 01:34:17.279
see if he can help fix their car, you know,
1489
01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:21.000
or you know, figure out what school report they should do,
1490
01:34:21.199 --> 01:34:23.680
or you know, he shows up to see them in
1491
01:34:23.720 --> 01:34:28.640
local parades and things like that, and gymnastic competitions and stuff.
1492
01:34:28.640 --> 01:34:31.279
I'm always hearing, oh my granddaughter won this or that,
1493
01:34:31.399 --> 01:34:35.640
and I'm seeing videos and it's wonderful. It's wonderful for him.
1494
01:34:35.840 --> 01:34:42.680
So he is an incredibly important person for the UFO world,
1495
01:34:42.840 --> 01:34:45.560
for UFO history. But he's a real down to earth
1496
01:34:45.600 --> 01:34:48.439
guy as well. He's never let it go to his head.
1497
01:34:49.159 --> 01:34:51.800
And that's one of the things I really like about him.
1498
01:34:51.960 --> 01:34:56.600
In fact, if anything, he really shies away from the
1499
01:34:56.640 --> 01:35:01.000
limelight that comes his way. And I will often say,
1500
01:35:01.039 --> 01:35:03.960
when pressed, you know, if you could do something over again,
1501
01:35:04.520 --> 01:35:06.399
would you get out of the truck, you know? And
1502
01:35:06.399 --> 01:35:10.079
he said, no, way, way. If I knew what was
1503
01:35:10.079 --> 01:35:12.720
coming my way. I wouldn't have gotten out of the truck,
1504
01:35:13.199 --> 01:35:17.800
but his curiosity and his you know, intelligence was such
1505
01:35:17.880 --> 01:35:19.880
that he just figured this thing was going to fly
1506
01:35:19.960 --> 01:35:22.960
away in two three seconds, and he wanted a really
1507
01:35:23.000 --> 01:35:25.920
good look at it before it did. I think it
1508
01:35:26.000 --> 01:35:30.159
got more of a look than he was bargaining for. Right,
1509
01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:31.880
you got to see you inside the craft.
1510
01:35:34.600 --> 01:35:39.359
Yeah, and it's us up to a point right when
1511
01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:44.079
he had being on the table and then him escaping
1512
01:35:44.680 --> 01:35:48.079
and being guided by the.
1513
01:35:49.279 --> 01:35:52.960
In fact, this is this is another important little film
1514
01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:58.079
clip for historical purposes that we deliberately produced not only
1515
01:35:58.079 --> 01:36:01.520
for the documentary, but I also put it up online
1516
01:36:01.640 --> 01:36:04.279
on the website in a way that it doesn't actually
1517
01:36:04.359 --> 01:36:09.720
exist in the film. The film we shot not necessarily
1518
01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:13.000
an animation, but we did a reenactment of the onboard
1519
01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:16.840
the craft experiences in a studio with Ron James, and
1520
01:36:16.880 --> 01:36:20.159
we shot this in about twenty and sixteen, I think,
1521
01:36:20.319 --> 01:36:24.520
in California, because we knew we had to remake the
1522
01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:26.439
film because I had a rights issue with some of
1523
01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:29.319
the archival footage I put in the film, even though
1524
01:36:29.359 --> 01:36:32.520
I paid for it, licensed it, agreed, had emails back
1525
01:36:32.560 --> 01:36:36.279
and forth in a contract. The guy who owned the
1526
01:36:36.279 --> 01:36:40.520
footage never signed my contract. So after I produced the
1527
01:36:40.520 --> 01:36:42.960
film and started to win awards, I had to take
1528
01:36:43.119 --> 01:36:45.840
four minutes of film footage out of the film and
1529
01:36:45.880 --> 01:36:48.439
then replace it. So I thought, Okay, if I have
1530
01:36:48.600 --> 01:36:51.920
to remake this film as I did in twenty seventeen
1531
01:36:51.960 --> 01:36:55.239
into twenty eighteen, I'm going to make it better. So
1532
01:36:55.319 --> 01:36:58.600
I got a few more interviews, and I also did
1533
01:36:58.640 --> 01:37:05.279
this reenactment, the Onboard the Craft Experience, so we animated
1534
01:37:05.359 --> 01:37:07.760
some of it, but most of it is just shot
1535
01:37:07.800 --> 01:37:11.560
in a studio and that's up online at the website
1536
01:37:11.840 --> 01:37:15.800
at the De Mounking page. It's called Onboard the Craft Experiences,
1537
01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:18.479
and it's about an eight minute film segment. And this
1538
01:37:18.680 --> 01:37:22.319
is the part that Travis remembers, and I'm happy if
1539
01:37:22.359 --> 01:37:25.000
we have the time, I can give a brief synopsis
1540
01:37:25.039 --> 01:37:31.439
of this. So he is gradually starting to come to consciousness,
1541
01:37:31.640 --> 01:37:35.840
and we don't know how long that process was. You know,
1542
01:37:35.880 --> 01:37:39.840
when you wake up from anesthesia, you're kind of like, oh,
1543
01:37:39.920 --> 01:37:42.279
what's going on? You know, you're trying to figure out
1544
01:37:42.319 --> 01:37:45.000
what's happening around you. So he said he started to
1545
01:37:45.079 --> 01:37:48.239
become aware that he was in terrible pain, and he
1546
01:37:48.279 --> 01:37:51.279
had very difficult time breathing. He could barely breathe, and
1547
01:37:51.319 --> 01:37:53.399
he was in terrible pain in his chest. But he
1548
01:37:53.439 --> 01:37:57.159
could feel heat coming down into his chest. But he
1549
01:37:57.199 --> 01:37:59.920
couldn't see much at all. But he knew he was
1550
01:38:00.079 --> 01:38:02.560
in some type of care facility. He thought he was
1551
01:38:02.560 --> 01:38:04.760
in a hospital, and he thought he was being cared
1552
01:38:04.800 --> 01:38:08.079
for by nurses or doctors. He couldn't hear much and
1553
01:38:08.119 --> 01:38:11.960
he couldn't see much, but he was in this like
1554
01:38:12.199 --> 01:38:15.439
state for a while, and there was this device across
1555
01:38:15.479 --> 01:38:19.199
his chest, like a semi circle light panel of some sort.
1556
01:38:19.279 --> 01:38:22.760
He describes it with heat and light pulsing down into
1557
01:38:22.760 --> 01:38:26.560
his body, which I find absolutely fascinating because we have
1558
01:38:26.680 --> 01:38:30.199
red light therapy now, right, we didn't have nineteen seventy five.
1559
01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:33.960
And we have pulsed magnetic healing devices, right, we didn't
1560
01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:35.960
have that in nineteen seventy five. But he's got some
1561
01:38:36.039 --> 01:38:38.720
sort of device across him, and it's large, it's got
1562
01:38:38.720 --> 01:38:40.319
a little bit of a lip on the top. And
1563
01:38:40.359 --> 01:38:44.000
finally his eyes can focus on this thing that's right
1564
01:38:44.239 --> 01:38:47.840
about here in his eyesight, and then his eyesight can
1565
01:38:47.880 --> 01:38:51.920
start to focus further and further, and he then sees
1566
01:38:52.039 --> 01:38:55.680
people that he thinks are doctors with what he thinks
1567
01:38:55.720 --> 01:39:00.439
are white caps on and face masks. Right then he
1568
01:39:00.560 --> 01:39:05.279
begins to focus better and he realizes, well, bounds aren't doctors.
1569
01:39:06.079 --> 01:39:09.239
Those are big black eyes, those are gray heads, and
1570
01:39:09.279 --> 01:39:12.399
there's almost nothing to the bottom of the face, so
1571
01:39:13.159 --> 01:39:15.880
that means that they're gray aliens, and he freaks o.
1572
01:39:15.960 --> 01:39:19.199
They three of them kind of lean over, like together
1573
01:39:19.359 --> 01:39:22.560
in unison, like they lean over because they realize he's
1574
01:39:22.600 --> 01:39:25.880
coming too, and they're like, well, you know, let's poke him.
1575
01:39:25.960 --> 01:39:28.720
Well let's can you see us? You know, can he
1576
01:39:28.880 --> 01:39:31.880
you know? Can he respond? And Travis freaks out, so
1577
01:39:31.920 --> 01:39:35.439
he wails. He gathers all the energy he can, and
1578
01:39:35.479 --> 01:39:37.880
he whales his arm up and hits one of them,
1579
01:39:38.359 --> 01:39:40.600
and he said it felt like hitting somebody who was
1580
01:39:40.680 --> 01:39:43.800
like a ninety five or hundred year old woman, you know,
1581
01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:48.439
like very frail, very lightweight. And this being loses its
1582
01:39:48.520 --> 01:39:51.359
balance and falls back on the being behind him, and
1583
01:39:51.399 --> 01:39:54.199
the two of them kind of stumble and are shocked,
1584
01:39:54.880 --> 01:39:56.960
and then they kind of come back up and they
1585
01:39:56.960 --> 01:39:58.640
look at him, and they look at the other one,
1586
01:39:58.640 --> 01:40:02.520
and Travis rolls off the TA. This device falls off
1587
01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:05.119
of him, and he sees there are some medical tools
1588
01:40:05.119 --> 01:40:07.800
on a table next to him, and he grabs one
1589
01:40:07.840 --> 01:40:10.760
of them because he thinks it is like a glass rod,
1590
01:40:11.079 --> 01:40:13.119
and he thinks if he can break this on the
1591
01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:15.760
metal table he was on, he could use that as
1592
01:40:15.760 --> 01:40:20.000
something to defend himself against these scary creatures. So he
1593
01:40:20.279 --> 01:40:24.199
banging on this metal table with what we used a
1594
01:40:24.279 --> 01:40:28.760
looseight handle from a toilet plunger when we did the film.
1595
01:40:28.760 --> 01:40:32.000
But Travis said, that's pretty close. That's what it looked like.
1596
01:40:32.159 --> 01:40:35.920
You know of it off right, He said, that's pretty good, Jen.
1597
01:40:36.239 --> 01:40:38.199
So he's banging it trying to break it, but he
1598
01:40:38.239 --> 01:40:42.880
can't break it, and he's flailing this thing at the
1599
01:40:42.920 --> 01:40:45.359
three aliens that are standing there looking at him, and
1600
01:40:45.399 --> 01:40:48.159
the aliens pick their hands up and try to like
1601
01:40:48.880 --> 01:40:52.000
get into his head and calm him down or paralyze it.
1602
01:40:52.399 --> 01:40:55.000
And I think because Travis had some type of shock
1603
01:40:55.199 --> 01:40:59.319
hit him electrically that affected his nervous system, they couldn't
1604
01:40:59.359 --> 01:41:01.399
do what they were trying to do. But Travis felt
1605
01:41:01.439 --> 01:41:04.319
like this pressure in his brain. He said, man, they
1606
01:41:04.399 --> 01:41:07.920
were working hard at trying to subdue me, and they couldn't.
1607
01:41:08.199 --> 01:41:10.399
So the three of them kind of look at each other,
1608
01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:12.760
you know, like, oh, what do we do now? And
1609
01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:15.319
then they kind of turn in unison and leave the room,
1610
01:41:15.359 --> 01:41:20.159
which is a small, low ceiling, hard to breathe stuffy
1611
01:41:20.640 --> 01:41:24.800
like medical room that's barely tall enough for travers. He
1612
01:41:24.920 --> 01:41:28.279
walks out the opposite way, which is a round it hallway,
1613
01:41:28.600 --> 01:41:30.640
and tries to find a way out of this craft
1614
01:41:30.800 --> 01:41:34.000
because these beings have left him now. And he walks
1615
01:41:34.039 --> 01:41:36.800
around in a circle and finds a central room which
1616
01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:40.439
he suspects was the middle of this craft, and he
1617
01:41:40.520 --> 01:41:43.199
sees an egg chair in it, and we now have
1618
01:41:43.359 --> 01:41:45.920
modern egg chairs that look just like this. We used
1619
01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:48.920
one in the film when we did the reenactment. So
1620
01:41:49.039 --> 01:41:51.600
he walks around the outside edge because he doesn't know
1621
01:41:51.640 --> 01:41:54.119
if there's a gray being in this chair, and he's
1622
01:41:54.159 --> 01:41:55.960
afraid there is because he can only see the back
1623
01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:57.960
of it. He walks around the edge of the room
1624
01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:00.399
and realizes there's nobody in the chair, so then he
1625
01:42:00.439 --> 01:42:03.760
starts to walk close to the chair, and as he does,
1626
01:42:04.279 --> 01:42:08.520
the room sort of changes. There's some type of proximity
1627
01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:12.279
sensor in the room, and the floors, the walls, the chair,
1628
01:42:12.800 --> 01:42:17.520
the ceiling, everything becomes a planetarium and there's stars, and
1629
01:42:17.560 --> 01:42:19.479
he's kind of freaked out by that. He takes a
1630
01:42:19.479 --> 01:42:23.000
couple steps back and it fades. Then he walks again
1631
01:42:23.119 --> 01:42:26.439
closer to the chair, and he realizes, okay, this is
1632
01:42:26.520 --> 01:42:29.720
like a navigation room. This is a control room. Maybe
1633
01:42:29.720 --> 01:42:32.600
this is flight control or something, and he walks up
1634
01:42:32.640 --> 01:42:34.920
to the chairs. I think he sits down in the
1635
01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:37.439
chair for a minute and starts to play with the
1636
01:42:37.760 --> 01:42:40.600
knobs and buttons that are on the handles where the
1637
01:42:40.680 --> 01:42:44.079
hands would be of this chair. And then when he
1638
01:42:44.119 --> 01:42:48.319
does that, you know, the star system starts moving. He
1639
01:42:48.359 --> 01:42:52.199
gets nauseous and thinks, oh my god, what have I done.
1640
01:42:52.319 --> 01:42:54.239
He's just trying to find a door that's going to
1641
01:42:54.279 --> 01:42:57.039
open so he can get out of his craft. At
1642
01:42:57.039 --> 01:43:03.960
that point, he hears something, somebody going or somebody's feet,
1643
01:43:04.039 --> 01:43:07.119
you know, stamping or something. He hears something and he
1644
01:43:07.159 --> 01:43:10.000
looks up over the edge of this egg chair and
1645
01:43:10.039 --> 01:43:14.640
that's when he encounters the Nordic guy standing there. Physical
1646
01:43:14.920 --> 01:43:19.119
body like a man, like a human, blonde hair, goldenie,
1647
01:43:19.119 --> 01:43:23.039
blue eyes, have glass helmet on, blue jumpsuit with a
1648
01:43:23.119 --> 01:43:26.399
maybe a little black neckline of black insignia, black belt,
1649
01:43:26.439 --> 01:43:30.439
and black boots. We used scuba boots when we did this,
1650
01:43:30.840 --> 01:43:34.039
and a blue fan suit that we bought online. But
1651
01:43:34.239 --> 01:43:36.680
Travis said, did a good job. That's kind of what
1652
01:43:36.720 --> 01:43:39.239
it looked like. So Travis runs up to this person
1653
01:43:39.279 --> 01:43:43.600
because he figures it's NASA, it's an astronaut, it's a human,
1654
01:43:44.760 --> 01:43:47.560
right he and he's blabbering, can you tell me how
1655
01:43:47.560 --> 01:43:49.119
to get out of this craft? Can you tell me
1656
01:43:49.159 --> 01:43:51.199
where we are? Can you you know? And the guy
1657
01:43:51.239 --> 01:43:54.079
doesn't say a thing, but he has a light in
1658
01:43:54.119 --> 01:43:57.119
his glass helmet that kind of lights his face. He
1659
01:43:57.199 --> 01:43:59.960
grabs Travis by the arm and he walks him around
1660
01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:03.119
the craft, out of the room, around the hallway to
1661
01:44:03.199 --> 01:44:06.479
a set of sliding doors that open, and then they're
1662
01:44:06.520 --> 01:44:09.359
in like a gap, a little bit of a gap,
1663
01:44:09.760 --> 01:44:12.920
and the doors close behind him. Travis can immediately start
1664
01:44:12.920 --> 01:44:16.159
to breathe better, he's still in great pain in his chest.
1665
01:44:16.479 --> 01:44:19.199
And then other doors open and suddenly they are on
1666
01:44:19.239 --> 01:44:22.600
the outside of the craft. It's the same craft travisaw
1667
01:44:22.720 --> 01:44:25.079
in the forest. He can kind of look down and
1668
01:44:25.119 --> 01:44:28.399
see the edge of it, almost touch it. It's gray metal,
1669
01:44:28.760 --> 01:44:32.439
and there's a steep ramp down and they walk down
1670
01:44:32.520 --> 01:44:34.279
and he turns around and looks at the craft and
1671
01:44:34.319 --> 01:44:38.479
it's on like three or four petals legs holding it up.
1672
01:44:38.520 --> 01:44:41.640
It's a disc shaped craft. And they're in some sort
1673
01:44:41.720 --> 01:44:46.279
of large hangar type room. They think, they don't he
1674
01:44:46.319 --> 01:44:49.199
doesn't know exactly what it was. Was it a mother craft,
1675
01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:52.560
was it an underground base? Where were they on another planet?
1676
01:44:53.760 --> 01:44:56.000
A mother ship in some of some sort. We are,
1677
01:44:56.119 --> 01:44:59.199
you know, an aircraft carrier. We don't know where they were.
1678
01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:02.640
But it's a room that has a rounded, sort of
1679
01:45:02.840 --> 01:45:07.039
half rounded ceiling like a greenhouse ceiling would have. It's
1680
01:45:07.319 --> 01:45:10.640
very high, right, you could have parked a Boeing jet
1681
01:45:10.680 --> 01:45:13.520
in there. And from what he describes and from the
1682
01:45:13.600 --> 01:45:17.000
drawings and pictures that Mike Rogers did, and then off
1683
01:45:17.039 --> 01:45:20.920
to the side are other crafts sitting there that are different.
1684
01:45:21.760 --> 01:45:24.800
This is the cool thing, he said. They look like
1685
01:45:25.000 --> 01:45:30.640
shiny metal eggs or tic TACs, right what we now
1686
01:45:31.039 --> 01:45:33.840
see how we're told we're tiktoks. And I think he
1687
01:45:33.880 --> 01:45:36.439
said there were either three or five of them, kind
1688
01:45:36.439 --> 01:45:38.560
of all huddled down at the end of one end
1689
01:45:38.600 --> 01:45:44.199
of this room. They're in hangar for the better airplane
1690
01:45:44.279 --> 01:45:47.159
hanger of some sort, and they're walking towards a straight
1691
01:45:47.199 --> 01:45:50.800
wall with some windows and doors in it that makes
1692
01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:54.479
up the flat side of this room they're in, And
1693
01:45:54.520 --> 01:45:56.920
they got to the other side, and they're walking across
1694
01:45:56.960 --> 01:45:59.600
what he also describes as like some kind of tarmac,
1695
01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:03.039
kind of like a gym floor that you might find
1696
01:46:03.119 --> 01:46:06.680
in a typical gym, maybe rubber floor of some sort.
1697
01:46:07.079 --> 01:46:10.319
They get to this flat wall, double doors open. They
1698
01:46:10.359 --> 01:46:13.199
walk into a hallway. It's like a medical facility. They
1699
01:46:13.239 --> 01:46:16.199
walk down one hall, turn to the right, and go
1700
01:46:16.279 --> 01:46:19.520
into another room on the left. There's three other beings
1701
01:46:19.560 --> 01:46:22.920
in there, all with the same outfits but without helmets.
1702
01:46:23.319 --> 01:46:27.359
One woman and two men, and they take him from
1703
01:46:27.439 --> 01:46:30.880
the guy with a helmet. They grab him. Meanwhile, Travis
1704
01:46:30.960 --> 01:46:33.000
is like, where are we what's happening? Where are you're
1705
01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:36.960
taking me? He's asking millions of questions. Nobody's talking to him,
1706
01:46:37.239 --> 01:46:42.640
nobody's telepathically communicating anything to him. Those three people take him,
1707
01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:45.760
knock him, put him down on a table, force him down,
1708
01:46:46.319 --> 01:46:49.279
and put a mask over his face. Travis gets his
1709
01:46:49.279 --> 01:46:51.920
fingers under the edge of the mask, tries to push
1710
01:46:51.960 --> 01:46:55.159
it away. They hold him down stronger, and in two
1711
01:46:55.199 --> 01:47:00.119
seconds Travis is out. That's all he remembers. So that's
1712
01:47:00.119 --> 01:47:03.359
the core memory. Is that two hour period of time?
1713
01:47:03.520 --> 01:47:06.680
Is that twenty minute period of time? Is it fifteen minutes?
1714
01:47:06.760 --> 01:47:10.239
Is it ten minutes? Big question mark. We don't know.
1715
01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:15.199
Dravis doesn't know, but next he knows. He wakes up
1716
01:47:15.600 --> 01:47:18.359
on side of the road two sixty I think it
1717
01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:21.359
is too sixty that comes down into hebret from the
1718
01:47:21.439 --> 01:47:24.319
high side where the circle k is as you go
1719
01:47:24.399 --> 01:47:27.680
down into town. It's kind of a windy switchback road
1720
01:47:27.720 --> 01:47:31.119
with big rock boulders and stones around the side. And
1721
01:47:31.159 --> 01:47:34.520
he wakes up on the side of that road and
1722
01:47:34.640 --> 01:47:38.359
gets up. First he sees a light around him. His
1723
01:47:38.439 --> 01:47:40.960
head is on his arm. He wakes up, lifts his
1724
01:47:40.960 --> 01:47:43.560
head up, and he sees a light around him, and
1725
01:47:43.600 --> 01:47:46.479
he thinks, is that a street light? Is that a
1726
01:47:46.479 --> 01:47:48.600
street lamp? Where am I? And he looks up to
1727
01:47:48.720 --> 01:47:51.960
see if it's a street light, and it's the craft
1728
01:47:51.960 --> 01:47:55.600
above him, and that the light is kind of shining
1729
01:47:55.640 --> 01:47:59.039
on him. And then he closes up and the craft
1730
01:47:59.119 --> 01:48:02.960
flies away in an instant and he gets up. He's
1731
01:48:03.000 --> 01:48:05.720
still in pretty bad shape, but he's not in the
1732
01:48:06.039 --> 01:48:08.680
He can breathe, and he's not in the same kind
1733
01:48:08.720 --> 01:48:12.439
of pain. He wasn't. He walks down, you know, stumbles,
1734
01:48:12.439 --> 01:48:14.079
I should say, down at the Hebrew and finds a
1735
01:48:14.119 --> 01:48:17.079
phone booth and that's where that's where the story kind
1736
01:48:17.079 --> 01:48:20.880
of continues from there. Yeah, quite an interesting journey he had.
1737
01:48:21.079 --> 01:48:24.600
Amazing. Are the phone booths still there I've been to. Yes.
1738
01:48:25.039 --> 01:48:29.720
Yes. In fact, they're right between a little garage place
1739
01:48:29.800 --> 01:48:33.479
that works on cars and does tires and Casa Ramos,
1740
01:48:33.640 --> 01:48:37.159
which is a Mexican restaurant, and as I understand, there's
1741
01:48:37.199 --> 01:48:39.520
been a battle for the phone boosts. Every once in
1742
01:48:39.520 --> 01:48:41.520
a while the restaurant will put a chain around him
1743
01:48:41.520 --> 01:48:44.279
and drag them ten feet onto their parking lot, and
1744
01:48:44.359 --> 01:48:46.720
then the garage says, no, no, no, there are is
1745
01:48:46.760 --> 01:48:48.720
and they drag them back and so they've had some
1746
01:48:48.880 --> 01:48:51.520
damage to them now, but yes, you can still go
1747
01:48:51.640 --> 01:48:54.680
there and get your photo taken in the phone booth.
1748
01:48:54.680 --> 01:48:56.479
And it was the middle phone booth that he made
1749
01:48:56.520 --> 01:48:58.399
the phone call from, because the first one he went
1750
01:48:58.439 --> 01:49:03.399
into didn't have a a dial tone, and he called
1751
01:49:03.399 --> 01:49:06.920
an operator who because he didn't have a dime in
1752
01:49:06.960 --> 01:49:09.079
his pocket. So in those days, you could pick up
1753
01:49:09.119 --> 01:49:12.680
the phone, get an operator and make a collect call.
1754
01:49:13.239 --> 01:49:17.479
So he made a collect call to his sister who
1755
01:49:17.560 --> 01:49:20.520
lived near Hebre. He didn't call his mom, who was
1756
01:49:20.560 --> 01:49:23.920
an hour forty five minutes away or thirty five minute drive.
1757
01:49:24.199 --> 01:49:26.640
He called his sister, who was about fifteen to twenty
1758
01:49:26.640 --> 01:49:30.560
minutes away, and he was expecting to get his sister
1759
01:49:30.720 --> 01:49:34.560
and his sister's husband on the phone, and instead his
1760
01:49:34.680 --> 01:49:38.439
brother Dwayne was there and also picked up the phone.
1761
01:49:38.680 --> 01:49:41.960
But Dwayne lived in Phoenix, so it was very confusing
1762
01:49:42.039 --> 01:49:45.680
for Travis. But that's who he called, and they almost
1763
01:49:45.720 --> 01:49:49.279
hung up on him. And another really interesting thing that
1764
01:49:49.399 --> 01:49:52.520
I don't think we had in the movie is the
1765
01:49:52.600 --> 01:49:55.840
operator knew darn well who Travis Walton was because people
1766
01:49:55.920 --> 01:49:58.640
have been looking for him in adult national news right
1767
01:49:58.720 --> 01:50:01.560
for the five days he was missing. So she stayed
1768
01:50:01.600 --> 01:50:03.840
on the phone and listened to the phone call, and
1769
01:50:03.880 --> 01:50:05.720
when it was done, she picked up the phone and
1770
01:50:05.760 --> 01:50:08.840
called Marlon Gillespie and said, Dravis is back and he's
1771
01:50:08.840 --> 01:50:12.359
in a phone booth in Hebrew. So he got picked
1772
01:50:12.399 --> 01:50:14.279
up by his brother in law, but the police were
1773
01:50:14.279 --> 01:50:17.479
there fifteen minutes later dusting for Prince, so they knew
1774
01:50:17.520 --> 01:50:18.399
when he was returned.
1775
01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:21.039
Ray.
1776
01:50:21.479 --> 01:50:24.720
Yeah, that little details, Like I said, when you notice sorry,
1777
01:50:25.079 --> 01:50:28.000
we started to talk. It's amazing, see all this could
1778
01:50:28.079 --> 01:50:31.479
be in a new feature film that could be really good.
1779
01:50:31.960 --> 01:50:34.880
We could get some great Hollywood producer to want to
1780
01:50:34.920 --> 01:50:35.159
do it.
1781
01:50:35.159 --> 01:50:40.359
It'd be great, right, make for a great movie, for sure,
1782
01:50:42.199 --> 01:50:42.640
That's right.
1783
01:50:42.920 --> 01:50:44.920
And I always like to throw out kudos to my
1784
01:50:45.039 --> 01:50:48.279
nephew Adam Stein, who really helped me edit this film.
1785
01:50:48.600 --> 01:50:51.000
And he is a Hollywood producer now, but I don't
1786
01:50:51.000 --> 01:50:54.239
know if he would ever consider doing a feature film
1787
01:50:54.279 --> 01:50:59.159
about this, but boy, wouldn't that be interesting? Yeah? Yeah,
1788
01:50:59.199 --> 01:51:01.319
he helped really helped me edit this film from a
1789
01:51:01.359 --> 01:51:04.199
four hour film I had down to the actual hour
1790
01:51:04.239 --> 01:51:07.039
and a half. He and Zach Wilde, a friend of his,
1791
01:51:08.439 --> 01:51:12.680
did a magnificent job. And I am not the skilled
1792
01:51:12.720 --> 01:51:15.439
filmmaker that he is. And I really give credit to
1793
01:51:15.479 --> 01:51:20.319
Adam for understanding the story, reading the book, and doing
1794
01:51:20.359 --> 01:51:22.159
the edit that they did was magnificent.
1795
01:51:22.760 --> 01:51:25.119
It's so hard to, you know, have that much good
1796
01:51:25.159 --> 01:51:27.399
material and really kind of narrow it down. I'm sure
1797
01:51:27.399 --> 01:51:29.960
that you could almost produce, you know, second or third
1798
01:51:29.960 --> 01:51:31.479
movie just from that original materials.
1799
01:51:31.479 --> 01:51:34.640
Sometimes oh yes, a mini series. I mean there's enough
1800
01:51:34.680 --> 01:51:38.479
material there, especially with the debunkers that are so fascinating.
1801
01:51:38.800 --> 01:51:40.720
You could definitely have a mini series out of this,
1802
01:51:40.920 --> 01:51:41.319
for sure.
1803
01:51:42.239 --> 01:51:43.319
Yeah, that would be cool.
1804
01:51:44.159 --> 01:51:47.439
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I think there are some mini
1805
01:51:47.560 --> 01:51:50.520
series out now on UFO subjects, which is great. I
1806
01:51:50.560 --> 01:51:52.640
mean I think Taken was one of the first ones,
1807
01:51:52.680 --> 01:51:54.359
and that was really done very well.
1808
01:51:54.640 --> 01:51:57.600
Yeah, that was a pretty good one, really good one.
1809
01:51:57.640 --> 01:52:01.319
Based on actually a lot of true facts. You know,
1810
01:52:01.479 --> 01:52:04.079
people think, oh, they made all this stuff up, well
1811
01:52:04.760 --> 01:52:07.800
not completely. When you talk to the people who have
1812
01:52:07.880 --> 01:52:11.479
had those experiences, they'll say, oh, man, they took it
1813
01:52:11.600 --> 01:52:14.159
right from the right from the horse's mouth.
1814
01:52:14.680 --> 01:52:17.439
It woll have just so many good, good stories and
1815
01:52:17.479 --> 01:52:22.600
different backgrounds into one cohesive story. The acting was great too.
1816
01:52:22.640 --> 01:52:25.560
One of my favorite actors was actually in there for
1817
01:52:25.600 --> 01:52:28.239
one of the roles, so just a great, great cast
1818
01:52:28.279 --> 01:52:28.800
to see.
1819
01:52:29.880 --> 01:52:32.800
And Peter Robbins was involved in helping to promote that
1820
01:52:33.319 --> 01:52:35.880
when it first came out, the whole mini series Taken.
1821
01:52:36.880 --> 01:52:39.800
Well, Jennifer, it's been fantastic to speak with you. I
1822
01:52:39.880 --> 01:52:42.800
feel like we continue talking to you for you for hours.
1823
01:52:43.920 --> 01:52:47.279
Alex and Ruben, thank you so much for this opportunity
1824
01:52:47.439 --> 01:52:51.079
and for your support and your kindness over the years.
1825
01:52:51.119 --> 01:52:54.680
It makes a huge difference, and for your trust, you know,
1826
01:52:54.960 --> 01:52:57.600
that's really where we need to figure out where we're
1827
01:52:57.640 --> 01:53:02.760
going forward, because without trust and without dialogue, you know,
1828
01:53:03.039 --> 01:53:04.720
and we're sunk in this world. Right.
1829
01:53:05.239 --> 01:53:05.800
It's true.
1830
01:53:05.960 --> 01:53:06.760
It's true.
1831
01:53:06.680 --> 01:53:11.000
Yeah, thank you, Thank you for this opportunity. Blessings to
1832
01:53:11.079 --> 01:53:14.680
you both. Thank you for your audience. I hope they've
1833
01:53:14.760 --> 01:53:15.279
enjoyed this.
1834
01:53:15.720 --> 01:53:19.439
Thank you, Thank you well, we will see you next time, Rubin,
1835
01:53:19.600 --> 01:53:22.239
and thank you everybody for joining us.
1836
01:53:22.880 --> 01:53:24.239
Perfect Choo