Stop Trying to Pull the Trigger Faster: How Elite Shooters Improve Their Speed

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If you do a one shot draw and before you break your grip, before you look at the timer, you know, do you take that three to five seconds of, hey, do I have the right grip?
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Am I hey am I on an aggressive stance?
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All that that information that goes away as soon as we move, but if you analyze it, the hole in the target's gonna stay there until I tape it.
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And the second thing is that I can do everything wrong and still get an alpha or a zero or whatever you're you're shooting for, and you're not gonna know it.
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You're just gonna look at the time and you can look at at the hit rather than analyzing what did I just do?
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Okay, what do I need to do different on this rep?
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And it just takes three to five seconds.
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And if we do that and we think about before an X rep, your learning curve will go dramatically higher than just trying to learn through repetition.
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Hello and welcome to Making Shooters Better, brought to you by Laser Ammo.
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Most shooters who want to get faster immediately start thinking about just pulling the trigger quicker.
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But according to the two married competitive shooters we're going to be talking to today, who've spent years winning at the highest levels of competitive shooting, that's probably the wrong place to start looking.
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Randy Rogers started shooting at age 11 with the nickname Holy Terror.
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We'll cover that during the interview.
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But she's gone on to win more than 85 world and national titles across nine shooting disciplines.
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Her husband Gordon, who is also highly ranked as a competitive shooter, didn't even begin competing until his mid-30s.
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So we've got two completely different roads, but ultimately leading to the same destination.
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And in this conversation, they're going to break down what it actually takes to improve your shooting skills.
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We also, by pure happenstance, discovered the secret to being able to successfully coach your spouse with a firearm nearby when they're having a bad day.
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And apparently it starts with asking one very important question.
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Do you want me to try and fix this problem, or do you just want me to listen?
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Probably useful advice for every married couple on or off the range.
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So without further ado, let's roll into the episode.
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Randy and Gordon, welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you so much.
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We're so excited to be here.
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So am I.
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You are officially the first married competitive shooting couple we've had on the podcast.
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So I feel like there should have been some sort of drum roll or something for to get us all started because it's pretty cool.
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Well, I have a feeling you might have more because we are not the only ones.
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There are several out there, but I'm I'm honored to be the first.
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I mean, it's always great to be the first.
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Well, you'll have to do introductions for the others then.
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Absolutely.
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We will send you names.
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We will send you a whole list of names because I think we know about 10 or 12 couples.
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So it it's fantastic.
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Yeah.
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A lot of people, yeah, they kind of make it a family affair.
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So that's brilliant.
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Okay.
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Yeah, we definitely have to talk to them as well.
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So I always start out the episodes the same way with a great icebreaker asking when did you actually begin shooting?
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So I started shooting as an 11-year-old.
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Um, I was very lucky.
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My grandparents kind of pseudo-raised me and they were competitive shooters.
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And so when I started spending time with them, I had two choices.
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I could sit in the truck and watch, or I could get out on the range myself.
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And let me tell you, it's way more fun to be out shooting guns than it is to sit in the truck.
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So that's why 11.
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That's young.
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It is, it is.
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So for me, it's it's almost a lifestyle.
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It's something, it's it's one of those things I've learned to do just like brushing my teeth and tying my shoes.
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Uh, I got to shoot as well.
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So And well, I started a little later in life.
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I started around 35, and um I actually got shooting, involved in shooting because I got diagnosed with soratic arthritis, which meant I could no longer play racquetball, I couldn't play basketball.
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I took a lot of my activities away, and I was looking for a hobby.
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So I went to an indoor range and I started, you know, you know, bought a gun and I started practicing with it.
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I was raised on rifles and shotguns, but not handguns.
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My dad really didn't believe in handguns.
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And I got very lucky at that range, an IDP uh IDPA club started and I tried it, it didn't hurt my joints, and I started shooting.
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I'm naturally competitive, so it just took off from there.
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That's funny.
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So you are both on vastly different paths as far as your entry into the shooting sports.
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Yes, absolutely.
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Um, Randy, I think, is extremely lucky because she learned at an early age where it's easier to learn things.
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Um I started again later in life, and so sometimes we can be a little bit more stubborn about learning something or take a different approach.
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So it is it is interesting when we we we talk about things and how we you know she learns is different than how I learn, and it it can make for some unique but yet fun challenges.
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Yeah, no, I'll bet.
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Yeah, because it can be difficult when we get into our later years.
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I'm not sure what I'm talking about here, but it's difficult.
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Yeah, you you're ingrained, right?
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Some of those habits that have been potentially there for years can be hard to break.
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Yes.
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And we we kind of talk about that with people.
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We would rather have students who have little to no shooting experience and start from scratch rather than having to draw, you know, break bad habits or things that they've learned or ingrained.
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And sometimes that can be really challenging for people.
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Yeah.
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But we don't want any of your listeners to think, oh, I didn't start at 11, so I don't have a chance.
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That's absolutely not the case.
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I think shooting is a really unique sport in that no matter your size, your shape, your gender, your age, there is still a way that you can be successful and you can compete.
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There's a multitude of sports and activities and skills all involved in shooting.
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And so I think anyone at any age can have a great time at it.
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Um, it helps to maybe learn things when you're young.
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It's like riding a bike, but it doesn't mean that you don't have the opportunity to learn either.
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I think that's great.
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And I love that you're both proof that it can, it doesn't matter which path you take, whether you start young or whether you start later, because I agree.
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I think that if you have curiosity and you're willing to sort of pin your ears back and listen to some of the instructions, the instructors we have out there, you can become very competitive very quickly if you sort of dedicate the time and the effort to that training.
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So, Randy, when you look back on nearly three decades, can't believe this already, three decades of competitive shooting, 85 world titles and national titles across nine disciplines.
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What do you understand, do you think, now about shooting that perhaps your 11-year-old holy terror self could never understand?
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And we'll revisit that name in a minute, too.
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I was about to bring that up.
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Absolutely.
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So um, yeah, so just a quick intro for our listeners.
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So I started in cowboy action.
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Um, and the reason I'm called Holy Terror is in cowboy action, you adopt an alias to shoot under.
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It can be Black Bart or Roy Rogers, and I happen to be Holy Terror because my grandparents, they were Evil Roy and Wicked Felina.
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So I needed a bad name to fit in the family.
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And um apparently when I was quite small, like two or three year olds, I was called the Holy Terror.
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And uh it just I never grew out of it.
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Oh, that's priceless.
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Um But yeah, so yeah, 28 years later, um, the things that I look back on, I think the biggest thing that I didn't know at 11 that I know now is that shooting can be kind of hard.
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Um, I think kids a lot of times are very fearless.
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It's that whole like, I'm gonna jump off the roof wearing my mom's drapes as a cape and I'm gonna fly and it's gonna be okay.
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There are no broken arms or anything.
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I think when you're a kid, you don't know things are hard.
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You know, people say, Oh, yeah, aim at that target and pull the trigger and you hit it and you're like, oh yeah, that was easy.
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I'll just do that again.
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And um, as I've aged and gotten adult responsibilities and had to make the choice, okay, go practice or go to work so I can pay my rent.
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Um, it's definitely opened my eyes up to um it is a little bit hard, but also I think the thing I didn't realize at 11 that I realize now is it's also really fun.
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Like this is an amazing experience and going to the range and meeting people and and doing these things, it's it's amazing.
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It's it's enjoyable and it's thrilling.
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And so, yeah, at 11, you don't know it's hard, but you also don't know it's great.
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So I'm glad I've got to see that change as an adult.
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That's fascinating.
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So with cowboy action, because I'm my knowledge of cowboy action is very limited.
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I've seen some, I watched some of the YouTube stuff.
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One of the things that I watched very recently that astounded me was the quick draw cowboy action stuff, where they're leaning back in a rather obtuse position and then shooting in what looked to me like blazing speed from the holster.
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And so did you do any of that?
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That's a little different than what I did.
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Um, so I I dabbled in that very shortly, but the cowboy quick draw, um, the quick draw specifically, that is amazing.
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That is all about reaction speed.
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And yeah, you you you're trying to get the closest distance between the holster and the target as possible.
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And so, yeah, that gun just barely comes up and clears that holster.
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Those guys are fantastic and it's a skill all to their own.
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Um, I did the more kind of traditional three gun where um you shoot the pistols and the rifles and the shotguns.
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Um, so it's it's not nearly as quick.
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We don't generally shoot right at the holster because we're aiming at um a little bit more difficult targets that are spaced out and things.
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But uh cowboy action is is fun.
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I I grew up doing it, I love it.
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I think if you were ever a fan of Westerns, you know, the old lonesome dove and Roy Rogers, it really kind of just brings that nostalgia back to life.
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And I even pulled Mr.
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Carroll into the cowboy action world and and he's fallen in love with it as well.
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Absolutely.
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Really?
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Yes, yes.
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She it took her a while to drag me into it, but um, she uh gave me the alias flash Gordon um to shoot with.
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And um it is really truly it is Terry, it is the original three gun because they have been doing this for a lot longer.
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And when you have to focus on learning three different weapon systems to shoot all in one stage, keep the guns running, keep your mind and you know what you have to do, it really is a great sport.
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And the people that you meet in that sport are some of the best that I have met in any of the shooting sports.
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They are wonderful people.
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So if it's three gun, you obviously got the cowboy pistol.
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Is it a cowboy rifle?
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I'm assuming you're ratcheting the handle to put that next round, the lever lever action rifle, yes.
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On that.
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And that's again a whole different skill set than I.
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Yeah.
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You know, I came from just purely pistols and a little bit of rifle from training.
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But learning how to work that, I still have to really work at it.
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Miss Rogers, like riding a bicycle, can pick one up, hasn't tested in five months and go ding ding d-ding ding ding.
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What's taking you so long?
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I I I don't understand.
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You're not done.
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So, you know, she looks over at me.
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But uh, it is a great sport and it's a lot of fun.
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First shot accuracy from a holster, whether that's outside the waistband or carrying concealed inside, comes down to one thing: reps.
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How many reps are you putting in each week?
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If you can't draw from either concealed or especially outside the waistband in less than a second and hit your target every single time, you have work to do.
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And when it matters most, you're not gonna get a warm-up rep.
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Laser ammo gives law enforcement and responsibly armed citizens the tools they need to train consistently, safely, at home or at the department.
00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:51.840
Five, ten, fifteen minutes a day could make all the difference in building your draw speed, building your first shot accuracy, and building your confidence that your performance will be there every single time.
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Train more, train smarter, train with laser ammo.
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Go to laser ammo.com to find out more.
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And now back to the episode.
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Somebody brought in a lever action rifle for me to practice with before going on top shot.
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And I must admit, growing up on the old black and white cowboy western movies, Clint Eastwood stuff as well, I was like, oh, this will be great.
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And I could not believe how tricky it was to do a full lever sweep to shoot very quickly.
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I kept when I tried speeding the process up, I think I was just short stroke in the lever.
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I don't know if I was quite feeding it right.
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So I had to get quite aggressive to pick the speed up.
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But it it did remind me of the old stagecoach westerns where you've got one guy riding up there, shotgunned, you know, defending the stagecoach.
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I was like, this is fantastic.
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It really was a lot of fun.
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It's a lot of fun.
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The level action's always been my favorite, absolutely.
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The speed at which some of these people, you guys probably included, that run that rifle is astounding.
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Yes, absolutely.
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And it's it's interesting if you look at the cowboy action shooters because you've got a little bit of a split.
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You've got a lot of the older generation that definitely grew up on those, um, you know, Roy Rogers, and so they're a little bit older now.
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Um, but then you also have they're bringing in their grandchildren.
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And so you have these 12, 13, 14-year-old uh young men and young women that again, they don't know it's hard.
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And so their their muscle reaction and their eyesight is so good that yeah, they run those rifles, they can shoot 10 rounds in less than two seconds.
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It's just, it's it's blistering speeds.
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Yeah.
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Wow, that's incredible.
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Yeah, I was nowhere near that.
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Even when I sort of had practiced a few times, I'm like, yeah, if if they throw one of those at us at top shot, I'm gonna lose.
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That's what is the one I learned.
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Terry, I'm still working at it, so don't feel bad.
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Don't feel bad at all.
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Okay, good.
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So, Gordon, you came into shooting with a background in football, climbing, hiking, hunting, and uh looks like a multitude of other physical pursuits.
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Do you feel like one of those skills maybe transferred, you know, well to shooting, or was it, you know, sort of completely a different area altogether?
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That's a great question.
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I think that I've been very fortunate because I have been, you know, involved in sports since age eight.
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And, you know, whether it was team sports or individual like track and field or football, all of them gave me something coming into the shooting sports.
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You know, if I think about football, um, you know, footwork was extremely important in football, being a linebacker, taking first steps, being aggressive was important, yet being under control was important.
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Um and so when you think about rock climbing, you have to be patient.
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You have to study, you have to have a plan.
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Um one other thing I did was I actually pole vaulted um from middle school through uh high school, or at least my sophomore year of high school.
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And in case you don't know that, there's a lot of times where it's 45 minutes before you vault again because you made it on your first attempt, but someone else didn't, and they have to go through their second and third attempt.
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So what I didn't appreciate at the time or understand was I was starting to develop a mental gain of how to stay relaxed but yet focused.
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And that's really what happens when we shoot a match.
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You shoot a stage, and by the time everybody else shoots that stage, and you go shoot another stage, it's 45 minutes to an hour sometimes.
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And so that particular skill of learning how to relax, but stay focused, really, I feel like transitioned over to shooting more than anything else on that for me.
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So uh I think the lessons learned in there with being able to relax while simultaneously maintaining, you know, sort of a baseline of focus for the upcoming competition is absolutely hugely important.
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I learned there was a lot of downtime while we were filming Topshot.
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There was a lot of time between competitions, and there was a lot of time with equipment broken.
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There was just a lot of time for me to crawl around inside my own head and ice myself.
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And it was really difficult, I found a number of times to maintain both calm whilst also trying to focus on what was going to happen next.
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And sometimes, you know, you you might be in the middle of a competition and the equipment breaks, and okay, we got an hour reset, and then you know, come back in and go again.
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So I I learned during that time how important it was to try and find that balance.
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I don't know necessarily that I did, but I realized I had to sort of stay in the game, not get inside my own head and and mess things up by talking myself into making silly mistakes, but also not overly hype myself up.
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So I'm very interested for both of you, what goes through your head right before you you step up and the buzzer goes off?
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Well, yeah, that that's a great question.
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But I want to back up and and share a quick story with you about what we were just talking about.
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:20.720
And that is, you know, I had the opportunity to become friends and shoot with Rob Latham, probably, you know, the great TGO, right?
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:21.519
The great one.
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:34.319
And here's a story when I'm just you know, I'm shooting with him for the first time, and stage is running, and he's always full of laughter and he has great stories.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:40.880
So he's in the middle of telling a story when suddenly the RO goes, Rob, you're up.
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:42.720
And he goes, be right back.
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:54.720
So he goes, he gets in the box, he looks, and he goes, Okay, I remember, shoots the stage, comes off the stage, comes back to the group, and picks up exactly where he was in the story again.
00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:00.240
And I was just amazed, I was like, and I asked him later, how do you do this?
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:10.160
And he goes, Gordon, if you try to stay so sharp or just you know, totally ant up, you won't make it through the whole match mentally.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.480
So what I do is I get a plan.
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.759
Once I've decided on my plan, I just relax, I have fun.
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:19.920
And then when it's time to shoot, I remind myself of my plan and I shoot.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.160
And the rest is about having fun.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:28.000
And I've tried to as much as I can since that moment embrace that.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.000
Hey, I'm here to have fun.
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.480
I always have fun when I shoot.
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.359
Yeah, I have more fun when I win, but I always have fun.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.359
So I'm sorry, I interrupted the question though.
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:45.359
No, that's a great response.
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:45.599
It is.
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:48.400
Yeah, he did.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.480
So Randy, what about you?
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:58.400
So um, I guess I came from this a little bit differently in that um in cowboy action, there's a lot going on.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:05.839
There's there's targets, um, they have counters because they're shooting steel, so you can't necessarily go look at the paper holes to see if they hit or not.
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:17.119
So you have counters that are constantly watching, you pick up the brass because you know their reloading is a little bit more complicated, and a lot of people like to pick up the brass because it's very expensive brass.
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.200
Um, you know, there's people that time, there's people that score.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.000
So it's a lot of work to put on a cowboy action match.
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:27.440
So I was taught, hey, if you're not shooting, you're working.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:31.279
Um, but then when it's your turn, you own the stage.
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:42.720
And so for me, it's a lot of movements, a lot of activity, and I'm always trying to stay on top of things and try to help my squad or my posse or or whoever my teammates are at the time.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:47.599
But then when I get up to the line, I try to focus on one thing because you're right, Terry.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:51.599
You can kind of spiral and just get overwhelmed with like, oh, I gotta do this and I gotta do this.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.039
And it's just so I try to really focus my mind on one thing.
00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:02.000
And so for me, the one thing that I've always try to like mentally count down before the buzzer goes off is the sights.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:12.240
I just tell myself it's my little like mantra that I kind of hypnotize myself with, and I just think sights, sights, sights until the buzzer goes off and then go on from there.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:18.240
So I now I'm really curious because that's two very different approaches.
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:23.279
And I have found personally, if I am trying to be in the zone, right?
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.079
It doesn't happen very often because I'm a fun-loving guy too.
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:32.960
But when I'm trying, if somebody else is dilly-dallying around and cracking jokes, I'm not amused.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:42.160
No, if it's the opposite, if I'm in a fun place and I'm cracking funnies and somebody else is getting annoyed with it, that also entertains me.
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:46.720
So it I wonder how the two of you do at competitions where you're there together.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.880
If Gordon is cracking funnies, Randy does it drive you nuts.
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:55.759
Or is it is it like, okay, that helps me get my uh emotions under control?
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.279
I am genuinely curious.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.720
I'll I'll I'll take this one.
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:04.640
So You know, we're both uh big believers in a mental game.
00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:12.799
And so part of what we do is when you know, you know, you have the shooter, the shooter on deck, and the shooter in the hole.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:23.359
Well, as soon as I hear that I'm in the hole, I stop talking, I stop joking around, I start thinking about, hey, remember my stage plan.
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:24.799
Let's speed da-da-da.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:31.440
Um and before the buzzer, um, you know, my last thoughts are be smooth.
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:36.559
You know, I'm listening for the buzzer and I'm just telling myself my mantra is be smooth, be smooth.
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:46.160
And if I'm anywhere in that process in the shooting order and you come up to me to talk to me because you don't know it, I just say, hey, I'm getting ready to shoot.
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:47.440
I'll talk to you in just a minute.
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:48.480
Don't go anywhere.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:50.640
And then I go off on my own.
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:53.599
Um, and that helps me, Randy.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.920
Well, um, to answer your question, Terry, it's been a process.
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:08.799
There's been a couple matches where, you know, like I gave such a nice answer, and they're gonna throw me under the bus.
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:10.319
I I can see it's coming.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:12.240
I'm just gonna say it's a process.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:22.880
And, you know, at the year one mark, there was a couple matches that maybe we didn't talk a whole lot during the match because I needed a little more space.
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:26.559
Um, but no, it's it's I think we've we've benefited each other.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.519
We've been very lucky.
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:38.160
You know, I think he does remind me that this is supposed to be fun because, you know, for for a long time I was raised by very serious people and very dedicated people.
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.079
And so, you know, there was a time when I'd kind of forgotten that it was supposed to be fun.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.440
So I think he's he's had a very beneficial effect on me.
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.839
And and maybe in some ways I've reminded him to be slightly more serious.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.720
So I I think I think it's great to have a partner and and I think we grow with each other.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:58.480
Yeah, what a beautiful answer.
00:23:58.640 --> 00:23:59.279
I love you.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.200
It's great.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:03.279
It's been a process.
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:05.680
It's been a process of both the guys just lost it.
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:06.640
We're like, yep.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.039
That's like something my wife would say, you have been a process.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:24.319
But I I really think it's important because there is certainly a tipping point for me where if I if I start getting too serious, I tend to stiffen up.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:28.240
I tend to not flow and and move the way I know I could.
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:37.200
And so there's there's certainly an element where I'm like, okay, I'm getting ready, I'm ready, and then just relax, like breathe.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:42.559
If I had a mantra, it might, it might be similar to you, or it's just okay, now let's just have fun.
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.640
Like I've done all the work up till this point.
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:51.920
If I'm now going to shoot this competition or this stage, well, I need to relax enough to let my sort of subconscious do the work for me.
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.440
I find that, and you can tell me whether this is true for you guys too.
00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:06.799
If I start cognitively trying to mechanically force the movements that I know I need to do in order to shoot well, if I'm doing that consciously, I guarantee I'm gonna screw it up.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:16.480
But if I'm in that kind of lolly gag and just having fun state of mind, and my subconscious is doing that sort of that work for me, I tend to shoot better.
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:22.559
It's it seems like the less cognitive effort I apply, the greater likelihood I'll shoot well.
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:23.759
Is that true for you guys?
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.759
I think it's true up until a point.
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:26.319
Yeah.
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:36.880
I mean, I I definitely have found myself too distracted where, hey, I'm standing there on the line and I am listening to the jokes behind me and you know, I'm not focused.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:49.519
So I I definitely I I agree that you key you can be too tense, but I know for me personally, I can be too relaxed where like I hear the jokes behind me and I forget a target that I'm supposed to shoot.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:26:01.599
So I I think there's a balance point, at least for me, where I I can have fun, but at some point I need to do kind of flip that serious switch and be like, okay, smooth sights, relax.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:12.960
Yeah, I I definitely believe any time we're consciously shooting during a stage, we're gonna be slower and less effective.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:19.359
Um, our subconscious can do a million things at one time, our conscious mind is only one.
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:23.920
So um there's a great book that I embraced early on in my career.
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:26.640
It's with Winning in Mind by Laney Basham.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:29.039
Um, it worked so well.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:31.519
You know, I won Nationals that year.
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:38.640
I went to one of Laney's seminars in Dallas and really embraced that whole thing.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:44.480
And it's true, if I go conscious during a stage, I know I've automatically slowed down.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:52.799
And so we need to, like Randy said, we can be relaxed, but I need to have something that triggers me to go into my subconscious mind.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:27:04.160
And I think that's part of for me, when okay, I'm in the hole, let's just walk away from everything, and it starts to trigger, hey, I'm getting ready to shoot.
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:09.119
Um, we all get excited, we get nervous, our heartbeat starts beating really fast.
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:12.160
And I remind myself that that's a good thing.
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:13.759
Nervousness is a good thing.
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.359
Don't look at it as negative.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.480
That just means my body's getting ready to shoot great.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.480
My muscles are getting ready, my hearing, my eyesight's getting sharper.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:28.720
So take that mental approach to it, and you will have a great state.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:37.200
Yeah, it certainly helps, I think I found to reframe nervous energy as something that is parallel to excitement.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:46.400
And I think a lot of it comes down for a lot of people with stress with how they interpret those nervous feelings, because we all get them, especially if you're doing something that matters and is important to you.
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:48.640
The nerves tend to get exacerbated.
00:27:48.720 --> 00:28:01.200
And I think if you can frame those nerves and that energy as something being positive rather than the negative, then the chances are you could probably use that adrenaline and that focus to do well.
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.400
But it's such a tough thing to do, isn't it, in the moment?
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:10.000
To to reframe nerves when you know, in reality, no, I'm crap in my pants right now.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:12.400
This is, you know, you've got that uh moment.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:14.720
And then you're like, no, this is a good thing, right?
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:16.799
Just making that switch.
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:18.240
It it is.
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:19.920
I I will share a story.
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.160
So I'm starting to become a better shooter.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.359
I'm being put in with the super squads, and I'm very nervous.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.039
You know, I'm just this who am I to be with the super squad, right?
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:37.039
And now we have shooting USA and they're filming, and I have a camera sitting off to the side of me watching what I do, similar to what you had to do, right?
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:37.680
Yeah.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:49.920
And um part of uh was winning in mind's thing is you write a statement, an affirmation statement, you read it for 21 days, and it becomes almost automatic for you.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.160
And one of the things is about being nervous, I was getting more and more nervous.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:29:03.920
And we were at area six, and I step into the box, and sure enough, I've got shooting USA right here, and I'm at the super squat, and my heart rate is probably 200 beats.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.440
I mean, it's just huge.
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:13.200
And um I suddenly said, you know, it's like me to be excited when I get ready to shoot.
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:14.319
I'm gonna have a great stage.
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:18.240
And everything went and I had a great stage.
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:25.599
And it it became so good that I started stepping into the box and I wasn't getting the heart rate up.
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:35.599
I wasn't getting excited, and I had to step back out for a moment and go, okay, you gotta give yourself a little pep talk here to get some stuff going because you're a little too calm.
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.759
So then I stepped back in the box, right?
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:47.119
And so, you know, one of the things that, you know, we talk about is you know, you shoot for 25 years, whatever.
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.480
You're not gonna win them all.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.359
I want to win them all, but I'm not gonna win them all.
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:54.160
And so you, you know, how do you take that?
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.559
You know, and it's it's a process, it's it's a journey, without a doubt.
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:06.480
So have you ever had that, Randy, where you step into the box and nothing seems to be happening in motion, and you think, damn, I must be slipping.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:13.759
No, um, I mean, um for me, it's always still exciting.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:20.480
I I I've always joked with Gordon that, hey, the minute it stops being exciting, I'm gonna go take up golf or something like that.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.440
Because, you know, that's that's the thing that I love.
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:25.039
For me, it's always exciting.
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:30.960
And it just it always brings me back to, you know, 12-year-old me trying something new.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.279
And I just I love it.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.279
I I I think, but maybe for me, the excitement's changed.
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:42.799
And so maybe it's less about being nervous, but more about being happy.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.759
Like I'm excited because I get to do this.
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:53.039
And so, you know, stepping into that box, it's it's a different feeling, but it's it's somewhat the same in that I'm just pumped to be here.
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:54.559
Gratitude.
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:55.680
Yeah.
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:57.440
Yeah, nothing wrong with that.
00:30:57.599 --> 00:30:58.000
Because it is.
00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:05.279
I mean, you think about other places in the world where you couldn't possibly have this as a career, it just wouldn't happen.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.240
And you get to do that, you know, for your day job.
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.240
That's bloody spectacular.
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.160
And and you know what I try to tell myself that because it is.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.440
I mean, the stars aligned perfectly for whatever reason.
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:19.599
And and yeah, I am so blessed.
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.480
I'm just I'm excited because I could be doing something else.
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:30.480
I could be baking bread or cleaning floors or you know, taking care of my groceries or whatever, and instead I'm here shooting.
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.400
So I'm I I try to remember that and and it just makes me happy.
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:40.480
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being grateful for the life you have, and it does help put everything else in perspective, right?
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:46.720
So when shooters talk about getting faster, what do you think they're normally trying to do?
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:48.880
Is it something to do with the draw speed?
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.960
Is it something to do with a first shot accuracy?
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:52.720
Is it efficiency and movement?
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.160
Is it just the physiology or is it cognitive?
00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:59.839
Where would you start if somebody says, okay, I want to improve my speed?
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:01.200
How would you do it?
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:07.279
Well, most people think that when they they need to go faster, they need to pull the trigger faster.
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:09.920
And that's really kind of a myth.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:15.039
Um, we're not really pulling the trigger faster than anybody else, maybe a little bit.
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:21.759
But what's really is the time saver is everything in between shot to shot.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:33.759
So if I'm moving from target to target, the time it takes me to do that movement, whether it be a transition standing still or a movement with my footwork, you know, do I have the gun up?
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:35.519
Do I have the sights aligned?
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:38.400
As soon as I see the target, is the gun going off?
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:39.839
Am I under control?
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:48.640
Um any pauses, you know, we want to eliminate any pause where the gun's not moving or I'm not moving, if possible.
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:55.039
And people really think it's about foot speed and trigger speed, and it's really not.
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:03.519
Um, and again, I have Rob Latham to thank for really he didn't teach me that as much as I noticed it by watching him shoot.
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:17.279
And then when I got to work with him a year later, he just proofed it out for me by showing me again hey, he has a mantra of I want to be the laziest shooter on the range.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.880
And he doesn't mean by taping or resetting, he's talking about there's no extra movement.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:31.440
I do only what's required to shoot all the targets, and I shoot the target as soon as I see the area I want the round to go.
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:36.079
I don't have to see the whole target, I just need to see the area the round needs to go.
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.000
And that is to me is where all the time saving is.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:45.839
And see, I think the time savings for a lot of news shooters is learning to eliminate mistakes.
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:52.240
You know, sometimes we see these new shooters and they don't have a good plan.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:34:05.279
You know, they they've missed targets or they're not sure when they're gonna reload, or, you know, they they just forget and or or they just miss completely, like they don't hit the target.
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:17.280
And so I think the biggest thing that I would suggest to shooters, either new or middle, that are just trying to get better, are don't be afraid to watch those around you, you know, because you can learn so much.
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:21.840
And by watching other people do stuff, you know, the brain's kind of a funny thing.
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.360
If you think about things in detail, you can trick your brain into thinking you've done stuff.
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.880
There's a great study I read about a basketball team.
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:33.519
They took a basketball team, they split them in half.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:36.880
The first half they had shoot free throws after practice.
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:45.440
The second half, they said, okay, I want you to sit down on the bleachers, close your eyes, and I want you to imagine shooting a free throw, like in detail, see the ball go through the net.
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:50.000
The two groups, they improved the exact same amount at the end of the study.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:52.079
So you can trick your brain.
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:56.480
You don't physically have to shoot the stage to kind of walk through it mentally.
00:34:56.559 --> 00:35:02.000
And you don't have to shoot the stage, you can see others shoot the stage and kind of walk through it mentally.
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:10.480
And so I think I think watching others to learn and try to eliminate those mistakes is one of the best ways to improve your time, is just by eliminating mistakes.
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:15.039
You know, remember your targets, hit your targets, plan your reloads, you're gonna have a great time.
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:15.679
Nice.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:16.480
I like that.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:29.679
It's funny because I had someone at the uh one of the conferences we were at recently, and he misinterpreted the speed with which I shot one of the smokeless range drills as fast trigger.
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:45.840
And yet when I pointed out how fast I had managed to draw comparative to his, even though I slowed down before placing that first shot to make sure it was going to go where I needed it to go, the the movement from the buzzer going off was faster than his.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:47.360
I try, I try.
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:54.480
I don't always get it by any stretch, but when I hear the beep, I'm trying to get the the beep, right?
00:35:54.639 --> 00:36:00.480
The right before it re- Yes, before we get to and the thing's trailing off.
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:02.079
I already want to be moving.
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:14.079
And I we watched him and he was doing the same thing, and it was uh recall pistol, but he was moving at the end of the beep, and then he kind of had the same speed throughout the entire drill.
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:20.400
From the moment it cleared the holster to coming up and presenting and punching out, it all kind of happened at about the same speed.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:26.480
And we're like, well, there's opportunity there, I think, as you alluded to, with improve the speed there.
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:33.920
Even if you slow down a half a beat to place the shot, do the first part of that movement as rapidly as possible.
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:41.360
And he did manage to shave off some time, but it was sort of interesting that he thought it, as you said, Gordon, people think it's pressing the trigger faster.
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.480
And yes, sometimes you know that's a factor for sure.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.880
But it's also a lot to do with the mechanics leading up to the shot you're about to place.
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:57.119
And I love that about being lazy, do not not wasting a single movement unnecessarily to improve efficiency.
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:58.880
So I think that's gold.
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.480
You know, we see a you know, we work with shooters a lot.
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:03.360
We have the same problem.
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:05.760
They don't go on the beep, they wait till the end.
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:14.079
Um, they do everything at the same speed rather than, hey, you know, the draw has, you know, four or five components, whatever you want to explain it as.
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:20.559
And hey, we can do those first two really fast, and then we kind of start tapering into before we make the shot.
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:36.880
And it's interesting once you point that out to them and show that to them how much time they start saving and they start understanding a little bit about the concept of hey, it's it's not about the trigger speed, it's about being in position.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:57.360
And the second one I'll comment on that is when you run to a position around a wall where you have to shoot around a barricade or a cover, a lot of people will run over in a low position, but before they shoot, they will stand all the way up and then shoot because they're used to shooting standing straight up, not from an aggressive stance.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:59.519
And it's just wasted time.
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:02.880
And uh again, it's not being lazy either.
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:13.039
Well, no, that, but that like I taught martial arts for a bunch of years, and standing upright was always a massive no-note because you're not in an athletic stance, you can't move quickly.
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.440
Like, you know, your center of balance is all screwed up.
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:22.159
So an athletic stance, and I've had people say, Well, you don't need to get you know that aggressive to shoot a pistol.
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:23.440
I'm like, no, you probably don't.
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:37.760
But in my mind, there's an association between a more athletic stance and the capacity to maneuver and move as maybe needed, versus standing upright and losing that connection to movement.
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:53.199
That's probably a you know sort of very narrow distinction, but I think that's usually important that you sort of maintain an athletic stance in order to facilitate being in an athletic or an action-minded set, if that makes any sense.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:54.480
I I agree.
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:06.159
And going back to your statement of the person who said you don't have to have an aggressive stance to shoot a pistol, you don't, but you do if you want to shoot one at speed accurately.
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:20.880
If I'm standing straight up, I can shoot one round at a time very accurately, but if I start trying to shoot a rapid, the gun will start to drive me and push me back because I'm not in an aggressive stance.
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:28.880
And then, as you said, being an aggressive stance allows me to move faster and quicker than standing straight up.
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.199
And it's more efficient.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:35.519
Yeah, and then not coming out of that position when you arrive at the next target.
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:36.159
Correct.
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:37.840
Randy, do you do the same thing?
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:43.280
Are you are you a kind of a get low and move around, or where do you land on that?
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:44.719
No, absolutely.
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:58.719
I think I think to your point, not only is your physical body more in tune with moving quickly if you're already lower to the ground, if you're already leaning forward, you know, your weight's going in the right direction.
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:04.239
But I, you know, just to echo your point, I think it also improves your mental capability.
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:20.079
Like if you've ever, you know, I know it's not polite to say anymore, but if you've ever been in a fist fight, you want to be in a fist fight with the guy who's leaning back because, you know, he's not aggressive and he's not, you know, into it and he doesn't necessarily want to.
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:25.840
You don't want to be in a fist fight with the guy that's leaning forward and super excited and got his hands up ready to go.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:32.000
That's not the guy you want to fight, because you know, he probably knows what he's doing and he's mentally in that space already.
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:35.440
You know, so you also don't want to fight the guy who puts a mouth guard in to start with.
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:37.119
I mean, that's just not a good thing.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.559
No, that's the level of preparation that nobody wants to see.
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:47.440
Um, but I think there is a connection between your physical body and your mental preparedness as well.
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.159
Like you want to be excited about this.
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:55.920
You want to be leaning into getting ready to run because it it gets your mind there as well.
00:40:56.239 --> 00:41:02.880
I think also there's a hurdle for a lot of people with getting themselves into an athletic stance that feels false or faked.
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:04.719
And now there's discomfort in that.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:16.880
And it's trying to, you I've always coached people to be, okay, you're just gonna fake this until it starts to feel comfortable, but mentally you'll get there quicker if you're in a position where you feel like you're action-oriented or movement oriented.
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:24.480
Because people tend to be, you know, especially newer shooters, they're standing upright, you know, they're they're rock back in the heels after the second or third shot.
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:28.239
And I'm like, just just bend into it a little bit, soften the knees, lean forward.
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:34.559
It's gonna feel a bit goofy to begin with, but after a while, you'll feel like, okay, I'm running the gun, the gun's not running me.
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:35.039
Correct.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:35.599
Absolutely.
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:37.360
Fake it till you make it.
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.079
Been doing that a lot.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:48.480
Well, I think that it's important, you know, because we talk about competitive shooting, but there's also defensive shooting.
00:41:48.639 --> 00:42:02.960
And if you practice from an aggressive stance, um, and you're comfortable from it, no matter what, your body will drive itself into the most aggressive stance that the environment will allow.
00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:08.400
So if it does unfortunately become a defensive situation, I'm not going to be standing up.
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:20.800
You know, there may be a car or whatever in my way, but whatever it is, I will be as low and as aggressive as the environment will allow me to be because I'm comfortable there and it's an added benefit.
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:21.679
Yeah.
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:22.960
Oh, I love that.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:33.679
So, what do you think people repeatedly practice because it feels productive, but actually probably doesn't move the needle in terms of improving their performance if there is such a thing?
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:35.440
Number one thing, there's two things.
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:40.719
Number one is they always they practice what they're already good at because it makes them feel good.
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:47.199
And our number one range or number one rule going to the range is we're gonna practice what we're not good at.
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:53.119
And so we have a list of what we're gonna practice when we get to the range and we work on that.
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:57.760
The second thing is people will practice within their comfort zone.
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:00.000
They want to make the hits.
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:05.760
Um, so the majority of our classes is getting people out of their comfort zone.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:10.480
We don't practice we practice at 100 to 110% of our ability.
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:14.719
Otherwise, how do we grow into a new comfort zone or a new skill set?
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:20.960
If you're always shooting at 80 to 90 percent of your ability, then your brain's not gonna get faster.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.519
You're not gonna understand what you need to do.
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:26.000
And it's okay to miss a target in practice.
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:30.960
It's okay to have a bad hit in practice as long as you stop and say, Why did that happen?
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:36.000
And what am I gonna do different on this next rep to make the difference?
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:41.679
We just don't want to do rep after rep hoping to get better because practice makes permanent.
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:43.119
It doesn't make perfect.
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:47.199
Practice perfect perfect practice makes perfect.
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:56.800
So we see that the majority of the time is people don't realize how fast and accurate they can be until we push them out of their comfort zone.
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.760
I think the other thing that people do a lot in practice.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.679
Practice thinking it'll make them better is they only shoot matches.
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:27.920
And you know, I understand we're all kind of limited on time and money and what we can do, but I think only shooting matches is a mistake because if you have a hiccup in a match, like say you have a swinging target that you miss in the match, if you don't ever go back and practice it, or if you don't ever go back and ask why did that happen, you're not really gonna get better.
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:38.960
And so the next time you see that, you may even give yourself kind of a mental handicap going, oh, well, the last swinging target I missed, so you know, I'm probably not gonna hit this one either.
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:45.840
Um, and that's that's one of the fallacies I see is is oh, well, I want to get better at matches, so I'm gonna shoot his matches.
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:53.119
But if you never practice anything or or analyze how you did in that match, it's going to be very difficult to get better.
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:59.920
You'll get better because experience does give you better, but it's gonna be a much slower curve rather than an upward angle.
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:06.159
So it feels like you need to be a little bit bloody-minded, but you've got to balance that with some introspection after the fact.
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:08.159
Absolutely.
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:10.800
You've got to have both of those components.
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:11.679
Yeah.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:17.119
Which is somewhat funny because I think sometimes people will see a mistake and you react one of two ways.
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:28.480
Obviously, there's a myriad of ways they can react, but it it tends to be either a that is gonna be a problem moving forward because I didn't get it right this one time, or it's complacency and it just will it probably won't happen again.
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:34.239
They brush it off rather than revisiting a thing that maybe they're weak at and need that extra work.
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:53.920
But I definitely think there's a there's a place for stepping outside of competitive shooting and experiencing other areas of shooting, because you'll always find, in my opinion, a little something different, maybe from a tactical class that has an impact on how you can shoot competitively and vice versa.
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:55.920
I I totally agree with that.
00:45:56.079 --> 00:46:06.880
Um we we always try to tell our students go to as many different classes as you can, as many different instructors as you can afford or have the time to do, because you will learn something from each one of them.
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:19.360
Even if you only get one small tidbit that improves something, it can have a huge impact on your defensing, defensive shooting skills or your competition skills that you can get to use over and over and over.
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:32.400
And we just think that that's so important to get as big of a base of knowledge as you can, because when you're on the range, if you have an issue, you have a better chance of figuring out what caused that issue.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:33.760
Yeah, agreed.
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:43.360
So what does Randy do as a shooter that Gordon thinks is almost unfairly instinctive after so many years of watching her shoot?
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:52.960
So she can really piss me off by the fact that we can we can I can show her one new thing, or we're both trying to try to learn one new thing.
00:46:53.199 --> 00:47:03.119
She watches me do it, and then she will emulate it immediately, and not only be able to emulate it, but she'll develop that skill that day.
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:09.599
It's not, you know, over a lot of practices where I have to work my butt off, you know, doing it over and over.
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:15.679
She can pick something up and just knock it out of the park, and it it just pisses me off.
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:21.280
I mean, I'm happy for her.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.960
She's awesome, obviously, but it pisses me off.
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.599
Does Gordon do anything that that uh has the same impact on you?
00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:33.679
Lordy, so many things.
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:34.559
No, just kidding.
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:37.199
Um, no, I there is one really funny story.
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:43.039
So, Gordon, uh, he is extremely analytical, and he is a data-driven kind of guy.
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.000
Like spreadsheets, I think, is his love language.
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:50.559
Um, so he likes to take notes and and keep records.
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:55.840
And so one of the first practices we had together, I was working really hard at Still Challenge.
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.679
I really wanted to do well, and I had been struggling for many, many years.
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:02.880
And so he's like, okay, well, let's analyze it.
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:08.960
And so, for in case your listeners are not familiar with Still Challenge, Still Challenge is a set eight stages.
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:10.239
They are always the same.
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:16.079
The targets are measured out to the inch as far as the everywhere you go, it's going to be exactly the same.
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:18.320
They're going to be the same size, the same layout.
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:24.960
And so when you shoot it, um, you shoot each stage uh five times and you throw out your worst score.
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:28.400
So it really does come down to the tenth of a second.
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:35.119
And so he charted all eight stages with me over the course of like three hours.
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:40.320
And so he'd have me shoot and he'd pull up the timer and he'd write down every single individual time.
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:46.400
And by the end of it, I wasn't sure I could hang out with Gordon anymore because it was it was a lot.
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.159
Um It was brutal.
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:55.760
It turned out to be amazing because he he was able to show me the individual areas where I could work and improve.
00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:00.400
And I have to give him props because I was able to go win the ladies' title that year.
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:02.400
So um it totally worked.
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:04.880
Um, but it was a very painful process.
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.920
So um sometimes it's worth sticking through the pain.
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:15.440
He did teach me that, but even to this day, sometimes he wants to chart things down to you know the hundredth of a second.
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:17.679
I'm just like, let's go shoot, come on.
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:31.280
So if you're able to shoot so well after doing that, was there was it just it was a specific piece of data that showed maybe a shortcoming?
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:45.199
And I am using that term very loosely, but you were able to show a a modicum of weakness in an area because of those numbers, and then work that specific skill set or that specific area of the shoot to improve?
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:46.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:51.599
So to give you a little bit more detail, so each cell challenge stage is five shots.
00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:53.920
Um, and there's always a stop plate.
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:56.480
So there's one particular plate you have to shoot last.
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:59.920
So what he did is he would record all five of those shots.
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:06.159
And so, on example, you might transition from a far right target to a far left target.
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:13.039
And so what we were able to do is we were able to take a winning time and compare my time to that winning time.
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:17.760
And let's say the winning time is five seconds and I was shooting it in 5.3.
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:23.840
Well, it might be hard, you know, to think, okay, well, where can I be if you know three tenths of a second faster?
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:24.880
I don't I don't know where.
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:26.320
Do I have to draw faster?
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:28.079
Do I have to transition faster?
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:35.360
Because he broke all those times down, we could look and say, well, Randy, it's taking you a second to move from left to right.
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:37.760
You know, it should be taking you less time than that.
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:44.400
And so we could practice that, or or like like the um example you gave earlier, you know, on the draw.
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:48.960
Well, if I'm drawing on this one particular target, you know, it's taking me two seconds.
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:53.280
Well, if I'm trying to shoot the whole thing in five seconds, two seconds is a lot of time.
00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:55.760
If I could cut, you know, and not a lot.
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:58.000
You don't have to cut a whole second off.
00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:11.840
If you can cut a tenth off, you know, and so yeah, by working those numbers down to the very tiny bits, but then it shows you, hey, this is really out of range, or this is really out of range.
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:16.320
But if you don't look at those tiny numbers, you don't necessarily know that.
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:17.119
Yeah.
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:18.800
Oh no, I I like that.
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:22.480
I just don't know if I have the patience to spend that much time with all the things.
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:23.599
I could load him out to you.
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:27.599
I can send him to you, and you can spend the three hours.
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:30.239
He's very good at it.
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:42.159
So one of the things we do in our classes is you know, the first day of the class, we check everybody's sights, make sure they're on, they're accurate, and then we do four baselines.
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:46.960
And one of the baselines we do is a two-shot draw at 10 yards.
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:51.760
And we're gonna count you know your points, you know, to add it up.
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:57.039
We'll shoot it five times, we'll take your highest and lowest and throw them out, and we'll average the three.
00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:06.159
So let's say your first shot is you know 1.6, and then your split is 40, 0.40.
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:12.320
Well, after we do our baselines, then we're gonna come back and say, okay, let's work on a more effective draw.
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:29.679
And the hardest thing that we have, or we talk about people, is if you don't chart, if you don't keep a shooter's notebook, then when someone gives you an idea of how to do something faster, you really have no way of knowing if it's working or not because you don't have a baseline of time to work from.
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:33.679
And what we try to do is not show you one way to do something.
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:38.960
We want to show you as many different ways to do something because we're all different.
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:44.719
We all have different physical strengths, weaknesses, abilities, disabilities.
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:47.679
So Rainey's using method one, I'm using method two.
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.239
Cheat, Terry, you're using a combination of three and one because it works best for you.
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:55.360
But we know it works best for you because we're charting.
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:02.800
And suddenly that 1.6 straw in a matter of minutes goes to 1.5 or 1.4.
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:07.840
Well, look, you haven't mastered this yet, but this technique is working for you.
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:16.079
So now you know this is a technique I want to go spend some time on and invest in because it seems to be working for me.
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:24.559
Um, the other thing is, is hey, we said your your split was 0.4 at 10 yards, that's great, but we just shot this stage.
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.320
Here's two 10-yard targets.
00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:27.280
Why are they 0.7?
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:31.199
We've already established it should be 0.4 on that split, but you're doing 0.7.
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:34.159
What's it holds you accountable now?
00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:35.679
We have math.
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:39.679
And it starts opening up people's eyes and going, well, crap.
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:42.960
And it gets them again out of their comfort zone.
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:49.039
So they start developing a new comfort zone, which involves usually a faster time.
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:58.000
Yeah, there's there's definitely something about writing all of that data down and having it timed by someone who's looking over your shoulder that is extra pressure.
00:53:58.079 --> 00:53:59.440
Most people don't put themselves under.
00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:00.159
That's true.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:03.440
You know, and we we try to tell our students, hey, there's no right or wrong.
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.719
This is simply where you're at.
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:11.599
We're trying to find a baseline, and then we're gonna come back and work it and find a method that works best for you to improve it.
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:13.280
And that's what we do.
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:18.559
And it's it's great because you know, the timer doesn't lock.
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:23.440
Hey, we have this book over here, it says your draw was 1.6, now you're doing it 1.3.
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.880
Um, you know, it I can't hide that.
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.760
I'm not I'm not BSing you, but it's working for you.
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:36.719
So I am now super curious, especially having seen the interactions between the two of you.
00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:46.159
How do you coach your spouse at the range without it turning into basically marriage counseling with ammunition?
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:47.440
Okay, I'll take this.
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:48.559
I'll answer this first.
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:52.719
Uh my answer to this is whatever Wady says, I'm gonna agree to.
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:56.400
Oh bad.
00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:57.440
So bad.
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:00.480
He says a man been married for many years.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:01.360
Yes.
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:13.920
Um, I think the biggest lesson we've learned over the years is kind of and uh I've heard of it in other areas of people's, you know, livelihoods.
00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:25.519
But I we usually, whenever we're working together, if one person starts talking, it's very important that we ask the, do you want me to listen or do you want me to offer advice?
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:33.119
That's that's one of the things that's really helped us the most because sometimes you know, you just want to complain, right?
00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:38.159
Like, I'm having this problem and I I can't hit the target, and and he'll go into fix it mode.
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:44.239
And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, I don't need you to boss me around, you know, I'm just telling you what's going on.
00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:53.360
And and similarly for him, you know, he'll be like, I'm working through this problem, and I'll be like, well, what about and he's like, I have a plan.
00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:56.960
I don't need you to like confound me with like more options.
00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:58.639
I'm working a plan, you know.
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:06.000
So I think that's one of one of the biggest things we've had to learn in the coaching is like, do you want me to listen or do you want to dance?
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:10.079
So there's some amazing freedom in that level of communication, right?
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:11.039
Because you're right.
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:12.960
I do the same thing with my wife.
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:16.880
I'll go downstairs and bitch about whatever's, you know, driven me up the wall today.
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:19.920
And she will start with, am I fixing or am I just listening?
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:21.599
Ah, good.
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:22.000
See.
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:25.119
And I can make my decision at that point.
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:28.960
And sometimes I regret saying, No, I need you to help me figure this out.
00:56:29.280 --> 00:56:33.199
But most of the time I'm like, you know, no, I just need to get this off my chest.
00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:35.519
I I've got some semblance of a plan.
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:41.119
Just let me bitch for a minute and then I'll go right back to, you know, put my big boy pants back on and, you know, get on with the problem.
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:42.320
But it's interesting.
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:50.239
We we found that out, you know, many years ago that we both have a tendency, I think everybody does, and to some degree, you want to fix it, right?
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:56.800
You you might see someone struggling with a thing, and you're like, oh, I have an answer, but sometimes they don't want your bloody answer.
00:56:57.039 --> 00:56:59.679
They just want to get it off their chest.
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:11.679
It kind of reminds me of the story of you know, the people who play golf, and you're you get paired up with someone to play that you've not played with before, and you know, you hit your first shot and they look at you, I can fix your swing.
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:13.360
You want me to fix your swing?
00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:15.440
No, I'm here to play.
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:18.480
Yes.
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:22.960
You're like, thank you for sucking all of the fun out of this activity.
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:25.679
Yeah, I can't wait for you to give me some lessons.
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:27.760
Yeah, it's it's funny.
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:29.119
And it's it's true.
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:39.360
There there have been many times it got tense, and it's because we're both a-type personalities, we're both driven to try to get an end result.
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:47.119
And sometimes if there's friction, we just have to back up for a moment, you know, and then go back at it again.
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:51.760
So it's it's it's a healthy thing, in my opinion.
00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:57.199
Yeah, at least finding like for each of you, it's finding, okay, where's that line, right?
00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:08.719
Because I imagine also, as you're both type A, you're both obviously incredible competitors, you've you probably enjoy to a point competing with each other, but I can imagine that also can get old sometimes.
00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:11.119
And correct me if I'm wrong.
00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:14.000
That's my interpretation.
00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:18.559
Uh, no, it never gets old.
00:58:18.800 --> 00:58:31.920
Um, you know, it's it's um whether we're doing drills here at the house or you know, on the range or shooting a match, we're you know, at the end every day, we're looking at, hey, what can we do better?
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:33.280
Who's in the lead?
00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:36.400
Who shot more alphas, who had the lowest time.
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:40.559
Um and it's just it's part of the fun for us.
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:41.360
It really is.
00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:42.639
It's part of the fun.
00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:46.800
You know, and I think we don't always compete head to head.
00:58:46.960 --> 00:59:00.960
A lot of the times we are shooting different equipment or, you know, and so, you know, we may not have the same guns, we may not have the same number of bullets in our gun, we may not have, you know, for for a variety of reasons, we're not always competing head to head.
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:08.480
And I think we've both been doing this long enough that we also can remember at the end of the day, the real person you're competing with is yourself.
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:18.159
So I think kind of remembering that allows you to have joy for the other person when they have beat their own times because we do have all those great analytics.
00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:19.280
Thank you, Gordon.
00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:27.599
Um, you know, you you can have joy for someone in doing well for themselves that doesn't take away from your own joy and doing well for yourself.
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:38.639
You know, I think uh a good follow-up to that is um in my career there was a national title I lost by a tenth of a second or two tenths, I can't quite remember.
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:42.880
And somebody asked me how I felt about it.
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:46.000
And I said, I'm extremely happy.
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:48.400
And they asked me, Well, how can that be?
00:59:48.639 --> 00:59:54.480
And I said, Well, my goal is to shoot every stage at 90 to 95% of my ability.
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:56.000
And I did that.
00:59:56.320 --> 01:00:00.079
I shot all 12 stages between that range.
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:03.360
I just got beat by somebody who was a little bit better today.
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:09.440
And so while I'm disappointed I lost, I'm extremely happy in how I performed.
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:19.039
And consequently, there have been other matches that, hey, I won the whole thing, I beat everybody, but I wasn't very happy because I knew that I didn't perform at my level.
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:27.920
And so it goes back to Raydi's point, we're always really competing against ourselves and holding ourselves accountable to how well we can perform.
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:31.199
And it gets down to performance on demand.
01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:36.079
You know, can you do that 90 to 95% on every stage?
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:36.719
Yeah.
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:50.960
So if you were just lucky enough and to be standing in front of a developing shooter and there was one principle you were gonna share with them to help guide them to improve over the next 12 months, what would it be for each of you?
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:57.920
I think the biggest thing that I would remind them is if this is something you'd like to do, plan it in.
01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:08.800
Because if if you make it part of your everyday, your every week, your every month, you are going to see results and you're going to have fun with it.
01:01:09.039 --> 01:01:19.039
And if if you don't plan it into your life and make it a priority, then I don't think you'll do well because I do think shooting is a perishable skill.
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:25.679
I think it's something that you have to do regularly if you want to improve and if you want to have a good skill set.
01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:28.639
Um, so you know, it doesn't have to be anything crazy.
01:01:28.719 --> 01:01:31.920
It doesn't have to be, you know, I'm gonna practice six hours every day.
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:41.039
And, you know, but just if if you plan in, hey, you know, Saturday mornings I'm gonna go to the range and you know, make the notes and make a commitment.
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:48.960
I think that that's how you'll be able to build improvement is by that repetition, by making it part of who you are.
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:51.360
So I I agree with that.
01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:56.400
And uh the other thing I would add to that is learn how to do performance analysis.
01:01:56.719 --> 01:02:02.159
And performance analysis is comparing our known ability to how we just performed.
01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:06.400
It doesn't, you know, not comparing it to my buddy or anybody else.
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:17.039
And you know, football when we're practiced, you just do reps over and over, and they tell you, hey, keep, you know, do this, but do it over and over.
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:21.679
And that's how we learned at that point was through repetition.
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:35.039
But if we take the time, if you do a one-shot draw, and before you break your grip, before you look at the timer, you know, do you take that three to five seconds of, hey, do I have the right grip?
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:38.079
Am I hey am I on an aggressive stance?
01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:49.039
All that that information that goes away as soon as we move, but if you analyze it, the hole in the target's gonna stay there until I tape it.
01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:56.639
And the second thing is that I can do everything wrong and still get an alpha or a zero or whatever you're you're shooting for, and you're not gonna know it.
01:02:56.719 --> 01:03:02.320
You're just gonna look at the time and you can look at at the hit rather than analyzing what did I just do?
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:06.159
Okay, what do I need to do different on this rep?
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:08.559
And it just takes three to five seconds.
01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:18.559
And if we do that and we think about before an ex rep, your learning curve will go dramatically higher than just trying to learn through repetition.
01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:20.639
I love that.
01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:25.599
So do you both spend some time uh recording yourselves when you're actually shooting?
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:26.719
I've done that myself.
01:03:26.800 --> 01:03:43.199
I've just set up the camera, I look at the draw striker, look at where I end up presenting, and then try to make corrections because I do find it can be difficult sometimes after the shot is fired to freeze up at that moment to stop and then go, okay, well, where was my grip, etc.?
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:45.280
Even though it's probably something I should work on.
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:49.599
But if then if I recorded it, just put it on my cell phone and then you know watched it back.
01:03:49.840 --> 01:04:00.719
Look, my support hand was lower than it probably should have been, my punch out wasn't where it needed to be, or maybe my support hand wasn't picking up the gun, you know, at the right height or the right position for a great shot.
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:05.840
So do you use uh videography or anything like that for performing for either yourself or your students?
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:09.679
So when I first started, we didn't have iPhones.
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:12.559
So you had to set up the recorder, right?
01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:18.800
So that that took up a lot of time, and I didn't have that in my life experience.
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:20.320
So I didn't use it then.
01:04:20.480 --> 01:04:29.360
But what Randy and I like to do for ourselves is we record matches or stages and matches because we're under stress.
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:41.519
So if I have been working in practice when I'm moving to keep the gun up high, you know, I'm in a in a match and I dropped the gun when I was moving.
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:46.159
Well, that tells me right there, that's why I need to keep, I need to continue working on that in practice.
01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:52.320
Um, we don't post a lot of our quote videos of stages because they're boring.
01:04:52.719 --> 01:04:55.119
We don't shoot them from a point of view of excitement.
01:04:55.280 --> 01:05:05.679
I mean, I'm zoomed in on where's her feet coming in at a certain position, or where is her, you know, does she have the gun up out ready right before she gets to the barricade or whatever?
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:08.320
So that's how we use it.
01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:23.119
When we're in a class, if a student's having a particular trouble understanding what we're trying to explain to them, then we do a great job of using a video because we do learn faster by seeing something visual on it.
01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:31.199
Um, and Randy does a great job in those cases of really explaining what to look for as she's showing in the video.
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:33.119
She does a great job.
01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:36.000
It's it's the skill.
01:05:36.320 --> 01:05:38.239
I I I think you're right, Terry.
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:49.599
I think in today's day and age, if you're a brand new shooter starting today, absolutely invest in the iPhone with the really big memory and buy a tripod and set it up so that you can wash yourself.
01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:59.760
Because that's probably the biggest thing that I was gifted, you know, from the the fates or whatever, is because I started shooting at a young age.
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:02.000
I was shooting with my grandfather.
01:06:02.239 --> 01:06:06.719
And so I had a shooting partner for like the first 10 years of my career.
01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:12.639
Like I never went to the range without my grandfather because, you know, I couldn't carry the guns or drive the car or anything else.
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:14.000
So I went with him.
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:22.800
And what we found is that not only did he coach every shot that I shot, but I watched every shot that he shot.
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:29.199
So I almost got a double dose of learning because I got to see him and see what he was doing.
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:31.920
And I've I've learned since I learned by watching.
01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:35.360
Well, there's a lot of different ways people learn, but I learned by seeing.
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:41.039
And so that's why I can try to drive Gordon nuts today, is I can see what he does.
01:06:41.199 --> 01:06:55.119
And I've had so much experience in seeing it and then being able to reproduce it in my own kinesthetic awareness that, you know, it's definitely, I think watching is one of the best things that you can do for your learning.
01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:56.880
And that's why I encourage shooters.
01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:07.760
Hey, when you go to the range, you know, yeah, you want to have fun and talk and things like that, but you want to watch everybody who's shooting because that's just more training on your brain as to what you're doing.
01:07:07.840 --> 01:07:09.679
So yeah, invest in that iPhone.
01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:14.719
If I were starting over today, I would do a lot more videography because it is such a great tool.
01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:15.920
Cheater.
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:18.400
Shooting partner for 11 years.
01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:19.280
Cheater.
01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:23.199
Well, and then I got to be your shooting partner.
01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:27.360
So I got to see the way you did things, which is, you know, it's been really a blessing.
01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:29.760
That's a disadvantage, but you know, anyway.
01:07:33.199 --> 01:07:42.880
I want to thank both of you for joining me today because this has been an amazing opportunity to learn from two people who obviously uh the level you guys shoot at competitively is already amazing.
01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:45.920
The fact that you're a couple doing it is even more amazing.
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:51.039
And the fact that your paths to get there were so different was uh was priceless.
01:07:51.199 --> 01:07:53.840
So thank you very much for joining me today.
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.880
Thank you.
01:07:54.960 --> 01:07:57.280
We've enjoyed it and we we love sharing shooting.
01:07:57.360 --> 01:07:58.800
It's obviously our passion.
01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:03.599
So uh anytime we can get more people involved or do things, we want to be a part of it.
01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:07.679
It was our pleasure, and we we hope maybe someday we get to do it again.
01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:11.280
So for those who would love to come and join you for classes, where do you want them to go?
01:08:11.519 --> 01:08:15.199
So we have a website, it's uh GLC Shooting Academy.
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.399
Um it's kind of a you know a long word of mouth there.
01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:20.720
Um we don't do a whole lot of classes anymore.
01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:22.880
We mostly do private training.
01:08:23.039 --> 01:08:29.199
Um, but we if you want us to come host a class in your area, contact, reach out to us.
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:30.000
We still do those.
01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:31.439
We did three of those this year.
01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:35.760
Our schedule's just kind of full with shooting as many matches as we do.
01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:43.359
Um that and still having fine time for for family to go visit them and then you know, time for ourselves to go on vacation.
01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:48.479
Um, we end up we end up traveling 35 weekends a year.
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:51.920
And so it gets to be a bit much on that.
01:08:52.079 --> 01:08:55.680
But we're if we can fit it in, we'll be more than happy to do it.
01:08:56.079 --> 01:09:04.239
Sure, there's someone listening now is like, yes, I would love to come along and have you um create all the data that's gonna help me.
01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:09.039
Well, one one of the things that we do that's kind of unique.
01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:10.239
Go ahead, Ready.
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:15.279
I was just gonna say, don't worry, I'm there to make sure you get plenty of shooting and not just data.
01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:15.920
Yeah.
01:09:16.079 --> 01:09:20.479
So it was me I was thinking of, I'm like, you know what, I probably need that.
01:09:21.039 --> 01:09:26.000
Well, one of my frustrations when I started, there wasn't anybody really teaching competition.
01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:27.039
It was just offensive.
01:09:27.199 --> 01:09:32.000
And I had to really look out to find people who were shooting uh competitively.
01:09:32.239 --> 01:09:41.199
But you would go to a class and there's 35 people, and you're not really getting a lot of one-on-one, you're just shooting the same drills over and over and over.
01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:42.640
And I didn't like that.
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:46.159
And my degree is actually in physical education.
01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:49.840
So once I started applying that to shooting, wow, I got better.
01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:50.720
Amazing.
01:09:50.880 --> 01:10:03.840
Um, but we only take nine students max in a class, and you have both of us, and we give you a shooter's notebook that everything we talk about in the class is already written in there for notes.
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:04.239
Yeah.
01:10:04.399 --> 01:10:11.520
And we have the students write in it, like if I say something specifically to you, Terry, about one of your reloads, hey, you need to reload up higher.
01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:14.239
We encourage you to go back and write that in the book.
01:10:14.479 --> 01:10:28.399
Um, all the baselines or the spreadsheets that we use are in there for you to take with, but we also email you those spreadsheets afterwards so that you can continue to use them if you want, or you can modify them how it works best for you.
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:36.239
Um, so we put a lot of time and effort into it, um, but we get great results out of it in a very short period of time.
01:10:36.399 --> 01:10:38.479
So we really enjoy doing it.
01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:47.279
If anything, Randy has to remind me to stop to take a break because I just get on a roll and I keep going, you know, and she's like, you gotta give them a bathroom break, okay?
01:10:47.359 --> 01:10:48.479
It's been three hours.
01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:53.520
I think learning from the both of you would be an incredible experience.
01:10:53.680 --> 01:11:11.920
I know there's only three classes maybe per year, but I think everyone would would come along leaps and bounds in their shooting skills by attending one if they're able to, or maybe just following you on social media and watching how you compete, both of you, because obviously you have achieved uh an amazing standard of shooting.
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:15.119
So again, thanks for joining me for today's podcast.
01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:15.920
Thank you.
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:17.119
We appreciate it.
01:11:17.439 --> 01:11:19.600
All right, thanks to everyone who tuned in for this episode.
01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:22.880
Depending on where you watch, like, share, subscribe, your support.
01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:24.399
We really do appreciate it.
01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:36.880
And until next time, uh get to the range, take down some data on yourselves, practice, video record, and see if you can improve using some of the golden nuggets that we've shared on this episode today.
01:11:37.039 --> 01:11:38.319
All right, thanks everyone for tuning in.
01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:39.119
I'll see you next time.
01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:39.520
Cheers