speaker-0: So I think I was just like getting up going, okay, this is what I have to do. I have these meetings. I've got to get the kids here. This kid needs a costume. I've got to get lunch. It was a to-do. It was a to-do list. So I was knocking things off the to-do list all day long. And I think when my dad passed away, it hit me that what I really needed was a to-be list. Who do I really want to be? Were my actions really adding up to who I wanted to be?
speaker-1: Have you ever built the perfect life on paper, great career, family, success, only to wake up one day and think, why does this all feel so damn empty? What if the real secret to a fulfilled life isn't grinding harder, but learning how to relax into your productivity, while finally putting yourself first without all the guilt? Today on Let's Get Selfish, we're diving deep into that exact tension. My guest is Angela Jamieson. She went from being an engineer who worked internationally, she rose to COO of a consulting company, she had everything on paper that looked good and sounded good. All while raising a young family and caring for an parent. And then after the loss of her father, everything cracked wide open. Instead of doubling down on the hustle and burying her head deeper into work, she did what any good engineer might do. She applied logic, science, and healthy dose of spirit to the softer parts of her life. Out of that personal reckoning, she created Relax Productivity, a practical mythology that's now taught through her popular online course and membership community that's been running strong for nearly two years. She is sought after speaker and a bestselling author of the shockingly insightful book, Using Number Two to Get to Number One. Angela believes being selfish is the best way to be in the world, but only when it's done joyfully. When you fill your own bucket first with presence, balance, and real self-connection, you don't just feel better, you become the biggest gift to everyone around you. Help me welcome to the show Angela Jamieson. Angela, first off, thank you so much for taking your time out of your busy schedule to come talk with us today. Before we dive into the nuts and bolts of relaxed productivity and how you went from feeling like you were living Groundhog Day to actually feeling every day, fully and contentedly, let's start at the beginning of it all. Walk us through the story in your own words of how this all came to be.
speaker-0: Great to be here, Brian. Thanks for having me. Well, how did it all begin is, and I think I'm just like everyone else. just, you know, go through school, go get a job and do the family thing. And I think it's that little, that little flip of awareness of saying, is this, is this all that this is? You know, it's getting out of the conscious living and trying to figure out, am I living my best life? Am I? being who I really truly should be, what is holding me back? And that happened to me when my dad passed away. So that was 2013. And at that point, I had just finished my international engineering career. I had moved my very young family back home to nowhere Canada. And I had got a position as COO of a local consulting company. So, you know, doing a big job and raising small kids and my dad was sick. And you know, if you had asked me whether I'm burning out at that point, I would have said no, you know, this is life. I can handle it all, things are getting done, I'm good. But you know, the morning my dad passed away, it was one of those, what the heck? Like I was talking to him just a few hours ago and now I can never talk to him again. And he had the most amazing life, you know, I think for anyone that is privileged to live more than five decades or whatever, you've seen a lot. And my dad was also privileged to have done a lot, privileged in the way of he had a lot of experiences and he made the most of them. immigrant from China, coming to Canada for educational purposes, building his life here, doing great things, and then just being a steady citizen. And it really made me question, what am I doing? What is my purpose here? And I realized I needed to quit my COO job, really focus on being present with my family because it was just a rush. Every day was a rush. And I was, you know, fortunate enough that I could quit the job financially. And I just dove into personal development and I read and I listened to everything I could. And then I filtered it all through my engineering brain. So it had to make logical sense. And it had to be things that I could see happening kind of scientifically. So through that, I created my methodology that I call relaxed productivity and I've created a digital course. From that, I have a membership that's been going since May 24. So it's, I mean, it's lasted longer than I thought it would. And I've become a speaker on it and I'm publishing books. So yeah, this is what brings me to today. talking to ⁓
speaker-1: dive us right into the beginning of the story where you're working a very high end, a CEO position and you're dealing with a young family. You've just moved back to Canada. You have your father. That's a lot to take on. And as you talked about, you didn't feel like you were burning out at that time. What did it feel like in yourself and your kind of identity that you had built around yourself with all that? Did you feel like it was a pressure and at What was the pivotal point? Was it the passing of your dad that really tipped you over to take a step and say, maybe I am burning out. Maybe there is something.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think at the time and it's really interesting because once you work through these things, it's really hard to take yourself back to those, you know, how you were thinking before because now I've got all the tools and everything to make sense of my life. But back then I knew and upon reflection, it's kind of like searching for validation through your job. So I was super proud to have this COO position. I knew that through my engineering career, I had a great career. I kept moving up through the salary grades and was super, I guess, not rewarded, but there was a certain pride that made me proud of what I was doing and maybe how people thought of me. And then, you know, the family thing, it's just kind of, this is what you do in your thirties. was appreciating all of that. Of course, for the woman, it's a little bit of a bigger burden in terms of physically. Thankfully, I had a very supportive, I have a very supportive husband who just helps me in every single aspect of life. that's, but yeah, so I think I was just like getting up going, okay, this is what I have to do. I have these meetings, I've got to get the kids here. This kid needs a costume. got to get lunch. It was a to-do. It was a to-do list. So I was knocking things off the to-do list all day long. And I think when my dad passed away, it hit me that what I really needed was a to-be list. Who do I really want to be? Were my actions really adding up to who I wanted to be? And it really threw all of my values on its side. Like life isn't about a title. Life is about figuring out who I want to be. If that is including a job with a title, then great. But I hadn't taken that moment to say, who am I? And what do I really want out of life?
speaker-1: I love what you just called that. A to be list. We're going to say that. I'm going to say that one more time because it's almost a tongue twister. To be list instead of having a to do list, which I think that is what I would personally call purely living in survival mode. You're getting up every day knocking off, you said, just knocking things off the list. A B C D kids here job there tasks done. That's what you become. Instead of allowing yourself to step up and ask yourself, who do I want to become? And really looking at that, that's beautiful. Where I want to take that as well is the fact that many of us, and I have had the opportunity to talk to many people who have been in the corporate world and they all seem to say the same thing. When you have these titles of CEO, COO, high ranking positions. Did you feel like that time that's who you were? Your title had become your identity?
speaker-0: Absolutely. It's I think very, it's the corporate trap because you know, we come out of grade school, you know that everything is like after grade two, I go to grade three all the way up. And then in university, if you go, there's certain years you go through. And then when you get into your job, when you're a new professional, there's salary grades. And I remember thinking, okay, after two years, I'm going to go for that, you know, job group or salary group. And I always wanted to climb that. And I saw the leaders of the company and it's like, I can do that. You know, I'm going to aim for that. And it's just, I think we train ourselves naturally to think that way, that we, we need to, you know, validate ourselves by getting to those higher levels.
speaker-1: So now you've come to this point where your father has passed away, which is alone on itself. That's a massive life shift. That's huge. Yeah, it is. And you're starting to look at things in a different perspective and you have that you're growing this who you want to become list. How did making that transition from a COO with a title and the financial aspects that come with that, like that is a huge piece. And you start to think about diving into personal development and going a completely different direction. Tell me about how the mind played games or what went on in your brain on making such a big decision.
speaker-0: You know, it was such a big shift when my dad died and unfortunately is something that we're all going to experience. We're going to lose loved ones. But this was closest that I've ever had because you know, when your grandparents pass away, it's kind of like they're supposed to pass away first, you know, but when your parents pass away, it's also a mortality check. Like my gosh, the years are passing by. So for me, it was It was such a stark realization that the decision to quit my job was so immediate. It was like, this is crap. Like, what am I doing? I am searching for this validation through my job and appreciating all the accolades. I mean, I'm still a female in engineering. It's still kind of a novelty. And then I'm a person of color, even though I don't feel very colorful most days. I'm a Canadian through and through. But the day that my world shattered, and I remember looking outside his condo building and seeing someone was driving past, probably going to get their groceries. There's another couple having breakfast. And you want to just yell, don't you know what just happened? My world just crumbled and you're just sitting there eating your toast. So part of that was when we go, the world keeps going. There is, so what? legacy are you really leaving? And that just made me just realize what am I doing with my time? What am I doing with my focus? What am I doing with my family? Like my children. That was a really, it was just like, I need to get my life in order.
speaker-1: What did legacy look like to you? What did that mission that grew in you, that now you're starting to step into a place where you want more in life? And as you said, you were having this epiphany looking out your window. I liked how you put that, that when we go, the world doesn't stop. That must have really put something in motion and been such a moment that you just went, I need to do more.
speaker-0: Yeah, and it really changes your focus because your passing doesn't affect anyone else. It affects your friends, it affects your family. Those are the true connections that we need to really focus on and not to belittle what we do for work. That's really important as well because that gives us a sense of daily purpose. But it's all the focus, the importance that we put on things because Even, you know, my dad, he was an older dad and I'm a bit of an older mom. So my kids were quite young when he passed. So do they really remember him? Probably not. So it's really, you're giving your gifts to your children. It's like, that's all that's left because he also did a lot of technical work. He was a professor. So he leaves behind all his papers and he was a map maker, so his atlases. So it's one of those, he gives that gift to people through your work, through your family. It's, and you know, I don't know if you've ever been given a box of stuff from a grandparent who's passed, but it's like, this stuff means a lot to them, but it doesn't mean anything to you. So it's never about the stuff, you know, it's about what we can create in our lives and the connections we make.
speaker-1: moved you into a space where you started to take your engineering background and build something out of that. Share with us modality and please use it. Yes, let's dive into your relaxed productivity and explore how you took your engineering background and built this modality and stepped into speaking and then writing books. And how did that become?
speaker-0: Relax productivity. I deep dove into a bunch of personal development, all the big names that you can think of. I've looked at their stuff and listened to them. And there's a lot of stuff that I couldn't relate to and there's a lot of stuff that made a lot of sense. And then the people that were giving the messages, I had to look into their lives as well in terms of they're telling us to do certain things, yet... and I don't want to put anyone under the bus. But if you look at a lot of the big names, their personal lives have fallen apart at some point. Most of the male gurus are on a second marriage. So part of me was like, there's got to be something different, something that I can help people with, yet not tell them what to do. Because if I listen to a lot of the prescriptive stuff, like You must get up at this time. You should read this many minutes a day. You should blah, blah ad nauseum. What I want people to do is to lean into themselves because all of the answers that you need for a great life lie within you. And we're so unique that what's good for you is not good for me. And so it's good to look at others for ideas and to try them out and see what they feel like. But if they don't work for you, you don't want to feel like a failure. in improving yourself because someone else's method didn't work for you. And it was interesting, I was talking to someone who was like, she really appreciated my approach because she said when she decided to do personal development, she started feeling like a failure at personal development because she couldn't wake up at five in the morning. So
speaker-1: I was going to jump in here real quick because that for me was a huge thing. There's so many of us who we dive into this thinking that we need to radically change our lives and that all of these tools that we're hearing from, from a lot of these big names and the books we've read and every bit of information we've taken in, this says, I'm going to use your get up at 5 a.m. every morning. When you can't do that, And then you feel like a failure and then it actually creates more of a downward spiral and you're harder on yourself because you can't live up to these strategies and ideas that all these other big names are doing that have all these results that you want. And we take it so hard on ourselves. Is there a better way?
speaker-0: Yes, the way that I found is initially I called my program Inner Engineering because you engineer yourself from within. You use your data and diagnostics that you receive from yourself and the data you receive, the biggest indicator are your emotions. And so when you learn what your emotions mean, you know exactly what to do with them. And that's what is the foundation, one of the foundational learnings in relaxed productivity. is we talk about why we feel certain emotions and when you do feel a negative emotion, what to do with it. There's a lot of emotional, I think there was a certification you can get which you learn like all the emotions. I mean, I don't understand how you learn all the emotions because there's such a huge range, right? But all I need to know is if it's a good feeling or a bad feeling and how good and how bad it is. So when I teach people how to do that, it's like, there's more understanding. There's more like that people give themselves a break because it's like, yeah, you know, my mind is doing the best job it can. It's giving me these data points. And now I understand exactly where I am on this emotional scale.
speaker-1: So it sounds like you've built a framework with the structures and components to really give someone a very detailed plan on how to understand their feelings and how to not get overwhelmed by all of these external things out there that we're so hard on ourselves with. Yet for somebody such as myself who really has some major ADHD some days and really struggles with being put on a structure, how does your plan, how does relaxed productivity work for someone who might need a little more flexibility?
speaker-0: It's actually completely flexible. So once you learn the foundations, I teach you about how your mind actually works, how to hack the way it works so that it works better for you, and then reading the diagnostics, so your emotions. Now, the interesting part is, you know, when I, I've worked mostly with men and so men are typically unemotional or a lot of times they, they'll react internally. but then they'll suppress it. And that often causes issues down the line. When you're constantly suppressing your emotions, that is actually, it's kind of like, you know, burning yourself and keeping your hand there. So it's, it's also a part of me is to tell people who don't want to talk about emotions. Cause I know especially people who are used to suppressing it, they're like, please don't make me feel anything. Or like, we're not going to hold hands and, you know, do kumbaya or anything, but it's It's like use that data, that emotion as data and a lot of people can relate to that, but make sure you feel it because if you don't feel the emotion, you aren't able to listen to yourself. And sometimes that requires retraining as well to start feeling things. So that's a bit of a nuance of it is that you got to let yourself feel. And when you start feeling yet, you know exactly what to do with it. then you can actually live life a little bit more with wild abandon because it's okay to feel sad. ⁓ It's okay to feel mad because you know what it means. I'll just give you a quick example. Like if you feel an extreme negative emotion, it's always like a teeter totter. If you're feeling the extremes, it's because you care and love so much. It's like grief when someone dies. You don't really care too much when someone you don't know passes away. Like you feel sorry about it. but it's not a huge hit like when my dad died. That was a huge hit because I loved him so much. So when we're angry, when we're sad, we can feel it and then appreciate what it meant.
speaker-1: seen or what's your take on people that have been raised in a cultural or in a generation, a lot of the older generation, we're really taught to suppress our feelings and not talk about them. I know we're getting better about it now and our generations are definitely far more open to it, but there are still many cultures, age groups that it's just been ingrained into them. How do we pull that out?
speaker-0: I think it's up to the individual because maybe you're more comfortable that way, but you don't squeeze the juice out of the lemon, so to say. You're always going to be living this very steady kind of beige life. And if you want to see more colors, you want to feel more energy around it, then you would look into like, how can I make my life more colorful by feeling these emotions and yet not letting the negative emotions take you down. So there's, you know, those two ends of the spectrum where you've got people who suppress, yet you've probably heard of the book of your body keeps record or something. So you start to get these pains and illnesses if you suppress your emotions. Yet a lot of times people are living too much in their conscious life where they're like feeling so upset or, you know, it gets too dramatic because they're also not reading what this is telling them, they're just feeling it and then just being this person you can't relate to anymore because they're just in their feels all the time. So there is that extreme balance that you want to have in life.
speaker-1: talking about living in our feelings, as you stepped into this new project of relaxed productivity, did you ever feel any form of imposter syndrome or how did it make you feel? Because you're now going from a very corporate place into something drastically different and new. How did you accept those feelings and work through them and not get stuck or let the fear seep in or imposter syndrome? or all those things that we all know come when you're making that kind of change.
speaker-0: Yeah, the part of realizing or understanding relaxed productivity gives me the courage to do all this stuff because I'm also, I'm here as a being to create. So why the hell not? You know, that's one of my mantras to myself is like, if I want to do something, just do it because why the hell not? What is so, what's going to happen to you? A lot of, know, when I looked at representation out in the personal development world, I'm visibly Asian. Although I'm probably one of the least Asian people. I might know more menu items than you, but that's probably as far as I go. ⁓ and I've got, you know, I've got ptosis of, so one of my eyes is smaller because it was closed when I was, when I was a kid. So when I was trying to, you know, knowing I'm going to do this more public facing job, part of those really held me back. Like I don't look like anyone else. I kind of even look a little funny and, but. then when I flip it and it's like, that's why I need to do this because not all personal development are these beautiful white people. You know, I've got to be out there to, to actually mix it up a bit, to put a little color in everyone's life. And what I've learned is that people that really resonate with you, they will, they will seek you out. And the people that don't like you, they weren't meant for you. There's so many people in this space and And I think when you know the truth about how life works, we all kind of say the same thing, but in different ways. So who do you resonate with and then just follow them. So I am not for everybody, although I think I'm pretty fun, but you know, it's all up to everyone's personal decision.
speaker-1: going from your relaxed productivity, then you took another step and you started to write books. One of the books I've actually heard about called using number two to get into number one. Let's dive into that because it's got a bit of a fun name. Tell me about it. How did you come up with it? What's the theory behind it? What drove you to go from building a platform to now writing a book too?
speaker-0: Well, the book actually came way before all of this because as a kid, I loved books. I was a voracious reader. Books were, you you pick up a new book and you just, the smell, the texture, the font, like everything is just pure heaven to me. So I was, I love books. So the origin story of this crazy book, which is personal development around the metaphor of the digestive system, is I think I've just become a little bit too aware of digestive things because on this, as I was growing up, there's two stories, I think. And we can all blame our parents for stuff because, know, why are you this way? It's because my mom treated me this way. This is exactly the same thing. So we live on an acreage and it's the acreage I grew up on. And I remember my dad, was always just like, why is a septic tank keep, the septic pump keep getting plugged? And he was sure we were using too much toilet paper. So this went on for a while and he just, he could not, he could not figure out why this kept getting plugged. So he eventually said, okay, you guys are going to be on toilet paper rations. I'm going to have the toilet paper roll in my pocket. When you need to go, you come, you tell me what you're going to do. You get one, one square for number one and two squares for number two. That's it. Cause that's how he was going to control this plugging. So I just remember. as a kid having to think about my bathroom processes a little too much. And you know, when you're playing as a kid, sometimes you just don't make it. You you don't, you get distracted. So there's a lot of times I'd be sitting on the toilet yelling for help or running outside to find him. You know, we're on 10 acres and he was landscaping. It was like, dad, I gotta go to the bathroom and not making it. So there was a lot of, I think in my brain, there's too much focus on going to the bathroom. And then my mom's point in this is that she would always tell me, she goes, Angie, you are constipated. And I'm like, what? She goes, yeah, I, I'm listening to you go to the bathroom and you're not making the right sounds. They're too plippy ploppy. They should just be silent as you go to the bathroom. I'm just like, what? Like someone's listening to me go to the bathroom. I thought this was a private event, you know? So it just made me so super self-conscious about doing number two. And I think that's just carried me through my entire life. But as I've been learning more personal development and learning life, just going through life, everything was a digestive metaphor. And I had this idea of this book maybe two decades ago. So I just started collecting stories in my brain. And when COVID hit, I was like, right, this is the time for me to write this book. And that's when I started actually putting pen to paper.
speaker-1: Using number two to get to number one, what does it really mean? What is the story that is entailed in the message that you want people to take out of that book?
speaker-0: Well, so the using number two is of course the digestive processes to get to number one, which means you're number one. So within the book give, it's kind of very relaxed productivity, but it's using all the tools that you have using reminders from our digestive system to become the best you that you want to be, not comparing. So the comparing thing is like, you don't compare your poo with someone else's poo. Right? So just mind your own business, watch your own bowl. Other ideas are like what we eat is kind of like what thoughts you put in your mind. Are they going to agree with your system or not? And different thoughts affect different people. Just like my, one of my best friends, she cannot eat lettuce. And I thought lettuce was really benign. When I want something just with crunching, it's like solidified water, then I'll have lettuce. But for her, it's like she eats lettuce and she's immediately in the bathroom making interesting noises. So it's like we all digest things differently. So we cannot compare ourselves to other people. And of course, you know, going to the bathroom is letting things go. You don't think about, so you know, poo is all the stuff that doesn't, your system doesn't want. So it's got to let go of it. So there are things in your life that you should let go of as well. for some reason in our minds, we hold on to things that have affected us negatively. But just let it go because when's the last time you thought of a deposit you've done in the toilet for longer than it took to flush it? You don't think about stuff. So it's all of those kind of parallels to remind you as you do those things during the day of how to live the life that's best for you.
speaker-1: taking a step forward. You've now built relaxed productivity. You've got your book fully done and published and you're out speaking to people. What's next? What is the next step and evolutionary place for you?
speaker-0: That's a really good question because I was just talking to my husband about that last night because I was like, what is my end goal here? No clue. There's a few more books I want to write. I would like to write ⁓ a relaxed productivity book so that my methodology is written down and it's almost like a textbook for people who want to do my courses and membership. But it's also a book that people can read and just get the idea of what it's all about. And, you know, I always have books going on in my head, but that one is kind of my next project.
speaker-1: And I know that we're not supposed to compare and comparison is terrible, but I do want us to have a little bit of comparison here. If you look back on the life you were living as a COO and in the corporate world to the life you're living today, how does it make you feel and what's the difference that you're seeing?
speaker-0: That's a good question. It's kind of like, you remember that movie Sliding Doors is like you'd make one decision and it changes the outcome of your life and you never know what it could have been. But what I really like about what I've done is I've affected my financial picture quite a bit in a negative sense, but it feels so good. It feels like this is purposeful work. I'm having so much fun. meeting a lot of people through it. I know that people enjoy the speeches that I make and I'm enjoying getting books out. So it's kind of like what I mentioned. I could be going through all the motions. I could be doing the vacations, doing all the cars, the home and all that stuff. And I still have all that stuff, but it's like seeing a blue sky and really appreciating it. It's appreciating the cold on your skin. We still got way too much snow here. But you know, it's one of those just getting the essence out of life. I feel so limitless. I feel like I can do whatever I want to do. I just need to focus. Whereas previously I was going through the motions. I was having a great time. mean, everything and I think that's the story is you can have a good life whether or not you dive into personal development. But when you want to be better, when you want things to be better, when that little voice inside of you is saying, is this all that there is? You know, then that's the question you need to answer. And Relax Productivity gives you the tools to answer it because it answered it for me. I know the people, especially in my membership, I see them twice a month. It's made a difference in their lives too. So I think what I love is that my kids can also see me doing weird things, doing new things, doing things that I don't even know what the heck I'm doing, but I just do it anyway. I think they like that. And in the age of social media, where their gen-ex mom is doing posts, I think they're actually kind of proud of me.
speaker-1: all your work that you've done, the transformation that you've taken on and information that you've brought in, looking at it from your engineering background to your self-development platforms. Now, what is one of the greatest pieces of advice that you hold onto? What is your biggest nugget that you love?
speaker-0: There's so many nuggets, but I think the one that keeps me doing and creating is the why the hell not mantra I have for myself. But also what I'm focusing on this year is presence because I really believe presence is the new productivity. Because when we are where our feet are, so I was just telling people be where your feet are and you really appreciate. Like when you're with your family, be with your family. Don't, you know, check off grocery lists or all that stuff. There's a, there's time for planning. But when you're at work, be at work. And when you are fully present, that productivity is skyrocketed. And we often think of productivity as work focused. But what I challenge the people in my sphere is to be more holistic with their productivity goals. Like how many sunsets did you watch this week? Or did I, how many moments did I create with my spouse where it was just the two of us? You know, we need to measure more things other than work. So relaxed productivity, which I often do have to explain. So maybe I should rethink that, but people often think that I'm just going to tell them to do less work because they'll say, yeah, I need to do that. Just so busy at work. But it's not that it's like when you can figure out how your mind works, what your emotions tell you. You can do whatever you want in your life, but feel better. can, you, like a lot of people say, quit your corporate job and, you know, go sit on a yacht in Bali. But like the kids have to get to martial art lessons. So how can I do that? You know, there's, it's just not realistic for so many people. It's like people telling you to get up at 5 a.m. and do, you know, your power hour when your kid's been sick all night. Some things just, you have to do some things. And when you learn how to work with your mind, everything that you do, no matter what you do, feels purposeful, feels joyful, feels part of your chosen story. So what I tell people is you can have it all because you're the one who defines what all is.
speaker-1: You have dropped two things in there that I'm sitting here thinking, I love how she just said that. What you said about be where your feet are. I love that. Like that is, if everybody out there is hearing this, take that one massively. Be where your feet are.
speaker-0: That's my slogan for this year. This is what I'm pushing this year, just because presence is the new productivity.
speaker-1: This seems like a great place to bring our conversation full circle. And at the end of every one of these beautiful conversations that I feel so grateful to get to have, I like to pose a really powerful question. The question that I throw out is, and you have this on your website, so I kind of laughed how similar we are to this, but what is your definition of truly living your best life?
speaker-0: I think what it means to me is that I am unleashed. am unleashed from the thoughts that hold me back, from the opinions that hold me back, that I am in the world totally joyful because joyful is really the direction. What is that? You know, the compass. It's our North Star. Joy is the North Star. Look, I'm making slogans just as I'm talking to you because when we follow our joy, and we be who we truly allow ourselves to be, ugh, that's our true gift to the world.
speaker-1: beautifully said. Before we wrap up our conversation here, I just want to give you the opportunity to be able to share with everybody where else can they find about relaxed productivity and your book and how can they learn more about
speaker-0: Well, my website is simply angelajamison.com, which needs to be updated, but I will do it soon. But it's got all the stuff on it and LinkedIn. I'm pretty, pretty consistent on LinkedIn. And I think that's about it. My book is on Amazon or anywhere you want to buy books. If it's not in your bookstore, they can order it.
speaker-1: And all those links and everything will also be in the show notes, everybody. will make sure to make sure that we are getting Angela as connected to you as possible. So Angela, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been an incredible conversation.
speaker-0: Thank you,
speaker-1: What a conversation. Angela, thank you so much for bringing your engineering mind, your heart, and your philosophy into the show today. If today's episode lit something inside of you, if you're ready to stop the endless grind and start building a life that actually feels good, then make sure you head to the show notes right now. You'll find all of Angela's links, her website, the Relax Productivity membership, and her social channels. And while you're there, do yourself a big favor and grab a copy of her bestselling book. using number two to get to number one. Trust me, it's as insightful as it is entertaining. And as always, if this episode hit all the right places for you, pay it forward. Share it with a friend, a colleague, or someone in your life who's been running on empty and needs the permission to put themselves first. Because when podcasts become conversations, they create ripples we may never fully know how far they'll go. This has been Let's Get Selfish. I'm your host, Brian White, and we'll see you in the next episode.
speaker-1: Have you ever built the perfect life on paper, great career, family, success, only to wake up one day and think, why does this all feel so damn empty? What if the real secret to a fulfilled life isn't grinding harder, but learning how to relax into your productivity, while finally putting yourself first without all the guilt? Today on Let's Get Selfish, we're diving deep into that exact tension. My guest is Angela Jamieson. She went from being an engineer who worked internationally, she rose to COO of a consulting company, she had everything on paper that looked good and sounded good. All while raising a young family and caring for an parent. And then after the loss of her father, everything cracked wide open. Instead of doubling down on the hustle and burying her head deeper into work, she did what any good engineer might do. She applied logic, science, and healthy dose of spirit to the softer parts of her life. Out of that personal reckoning, she created Relax Productivity, a practical mythology that's now taught through her popular online course and membership community that's been running strong for nearly two years. She is sought after speaker and a bestselling author of the shockingly insightful book, Using Number Two to Get to Number One. Angela believes being selfish is the best way to be in the world, but only when it's done joyfully. When you fill your own bucket first with presence, balance, and real self-connection, you don't just feel better, you become the biggest gift to everyone around you. Help me welcome to the show Angela Jamieson. Angela, first off, thank you so much for taking your time out of your busy schedule to come talk with us today. Before we dive into the nuts and bolts of relaxed productivity and how you went from feeling like you were living Groundhog Day to actually feeling every day, fully and contentedly, let's start at the beginning of it all. Walk us through the story in your own words of how this all came to be.
speaker-0: Great to be here, Brian. Thanks for having me. Well, how did it all begin is, and I think I'm just like everyone else. just, you know, go through school, go get a job and do the family thing. And I think it's that little, that little flip of awareness of saying, is this, is this all that this is? You know, it's getting out of the conscious living and trying to figure out, am I living my best life? Am I? being who I really truly should be, what is holding me back? And that happened to me when my dad passed away. So that was 2013. And at that point, I had just finished my international engineering career. I had moved my very young family back home to nowhere Canada. And I had got a position as COO of a local consulting company. So, you know, doing a big job and raising small kids and my dad was sick. And you know, if you had asked me whether I'm burning out at that point, I would have said no, you know, this is life. I can handle it all, things are getting done, I'm good. But you know, the morning my dad passed away, it was one of those, what the heck? Like I was talking to him just a few hours ago and now I can never talk to him again. And he had the most amazing life, you know, I think for anyone that is privileged to live more than five decades or whatever, you've seen a lot. And my dad was also privileged to have done a lot, privileged in the way of he had a lot of experiences and he made the most of them. immigrant from China, coming to Canada for educational purposes, building his life here, doing great things, and then just being a steady citizen. And it really made me question, what am I doing? What is my purpose here? And I realized I needed to quit my COO job, really focus on being present with my family because it was just a rush. Every day was a rush. And I was, you know, fortunate enough that I could quit the job financially. And I just dove into personal development and I read and I listened to everything I could. And then I filtered it all through my engineering brain. So it had to make logical sense. And it had to be things that I could see happening kind of scientifically. So through that, I created my methodology that I call relaxed productivity and I've created a digital course. From that, I have a membership that's been going since May 24. So it's, I mean, it's lasted longer than I thought it would. And I've become a speaker on it and I'm publishing books. So yeah, this is what brings me to today. talking to ⁓
speaker-1: dive us right into the beginning of the story where you're working a very high end, a CEO position and you're dealing with a young family. You've just moved back to Canada. You have your father. That's a lot to take on. And as you talked about, you didn't feel like you were burning out at that time. What did it feel like in yourself and your kind of identity that you had built around yourself with all that? Did you feel like it was a pressure and at What was the pivotal point? Was it the passing of your dad that really tipped you over to take a step and say, maybe I am burning out. Maybe there is something.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think at the time and it's really interesting because once you work through these things, it's really hard to take yourself back to those, you know, how you were thinking before because now I've got all the tools and everything to make sense of my life. But back then I knew and upon reflection, it's kind of like searching for validation through your job. So I was super proud to have this COO position. I knew that through my engineering career, I had a great career. I kept moving up through the salary grades and was super, I guess, not rewarded, but there was a certain pride that made me proud of what I was doing and maybe how people thought of me. And then, you know, the family thing, it's just kind of, this is what you do in your thirties. was appreciating all of that. Of course, for the woman, it's a little bit of a bigger burden in terms of physically. Thankfully, I had a very supportive, I have a very supportive husband who just helps me in every single aspect of life. that's, but yeah, so I think I was just like getting up going, okay, this is what I have to do. I have these meetings, I've got to get the kids here. This kid needs a costume. got to get lunch. It was a to-do. It was a to-do list. So I was knocking things off the to-do list all day long. And I think when my dad passed away, it hit me that what I really needed was a to-be list. Who do I really want to be? Were my actions really adding up to who I wanted to be? And it really threw all of my values on its side. Like life isn't about a title. Life is about figuring out who I want to be. If that is including a job with a title, then great. But I hadn't taken that moment to say, who am I? And what do I really want out of life?
speaker-1: I love what you just called that. A to be list. We're going to say that. I'm going to say that one more time because it's almost a tongue twister. To be list instead of having a to do list, which I think that is what I would personally call purely living in survival mode. You're getting up every day knocking off, you said, just knocking things off the list. A B C D kids here job there tasks done. That's what you become. Instead of allowing yourself to step up and ask yourself, who do I want to become? And really looking at that, that's beautiful. Where I want to take that as well is the fact that many of us, and I have had the opportunity to talk to many people who have been in the corporate world and they all seem to say the same thing. When you have these titles of CEO, COO, high ranking positions. Did you feel like that time that's who you were? Your title had become your identity?
speaker-0: Absolutely. It's I think very, it's the corporate trap because you know, we come out of grade school, you know that everything is like after grade two, I go to grade three all the way up. And then in university, if you go, there's certain years you go through. And then when you get into your job, when you're a new professional, there's salary grades. And I remember thinking, okay, after two years, I'm going to go for that, you know, job group or salary group. And I always wanted to climb that. And I saw the leaders of the company and it's like, I can do that. You know, I'm going to aim for that. And it's just, I think we train ourselves naturally to think that way, that we, we need to, you know, validate ourselves by getting to those higher levels.
speaker-1: So now you've come to this point where your father has passed away, which is alone on itself. That's a massive life shift. That's huge. Yeah, it is. And you're starting to look at things in a different perspective and you have that you're growing this who you want to become list. How did making that transition from a COO with a title and the financial aspects that come with that, like that is a huge piece. And you start to think about diving into personal development and going a completely different direction. Tell me about how the mind played games or what went on in your brain on making such a big decision.
speaker-0: You know, it was such a big shift when my dad died and unfortunately is something that we're all going to experience. We're going to lose loved ones. But this was closest that I've ever had because you know, when your grandparents pass away, it's kind of like they're supposed to pass away first, you know, but when your parents pass away, it's also a mortality check. Like my gosh, the years are passing by. So for me, it was It was such a stark realization that the decision to quit my job was so immediate. It was like, this is crap. Like, what am I doing? I am searching for this validation through my job and appreciating all the accolades. I mean, I'm still a female in engineering. It's still kind of a novelty. And then I'm a person of color, even though I don't feel very colorful most days. I'm a Canadian through and through. But the day that my world shattered, and I remember looking outside his condo building and seeing someone was driving past, probably going to get their groceries. There's another couple having breakfast. And you want to just yell, don't you know what just happened? My world just crumbled and you're just sitting there eating your toast. So part of that was when we go, the world keeps going. There is, so what? legacy are you really leaving? And that just made me just realize what am I doing with my time? What am I doing with my focus? What am I doing with my family? Like my children. That was a really, it was just like, I need to get my life in order.
speaker-1: What did legacy look like to you? What did that mission that grew in you, that now you're starting to step into a place where you want more in life? And as you said, you were having this epiphany looking out your window. I liked how you put that, that when we go, the world doesn't stop. That must have really put something in motion and been such a moment that you just went, I need to do more.
speaker-0: Yeah, and it really changes your focus because your passing doesn't affect anyone else. It affects your friends, it affects your family. Those are the true connections that we need to really focus on and not to belittle what we do for work. That's really important as well because that gives us a sense of daily purpose. But it's all the focus, the importance that we put on things because Even, you know, my dad, he was an older dad and I'm a bit of an older mom. So my kids were quite young when he passed. So do they really remember him? Probably not. So it's really, you're giving your gifts to your children. It's like, that's all that's left because he also did a lot of technical work. He was a professor. So he leaves behind all his papers and he was a map maker, so his atlases. So it's one of those, he gives that gift to people through your work, through your family. It's, and you know, I don't know if you've ever been given a box of stuff from a grandparent who's passed, but it's like, this stuff means a lot to them, but it doesn't mean anything to you. So it's never about the stuff, you know, it's about what we can create in our lives and the connections we make.
speaker-1: moved you into a space where you started to take your engineering background and build something out of that. Share with us modality and please use it. Yes, let's dive into your relaxed productivity and explore how you took your engineering background and built this modality and stepped into speaking and then writing books. And how did that become?
speaker-0: Relax productivity. I deep dove into a bunch of personal development, all the big names that you can think of. I've looked at their stuff and listened to them. And there's a lot of stuff that I couldn't relate to and there's a lot of stuff that made a lot of sense. And then the people that were giving the messages, I had to look into their lives as well in terms of they're telling us to do certain things, yet... and I don't want to put anyone under the bus. But if you look at a lot of the big names, their personal lives have fallen apart at some point. Most of the male gurus are on a second marriage. So part of me was like, there's got to be something different, something that I can help people with, yet not tell them what to do. Because if I listen to a lot of the prescriptive stuff, like You must get up at this time. You should read this many minutes a day. You should blah, blah ad nauseum. What I want people to do is to lean into themselves because all of the answers that you need for a great life lie within you. And we're so unique that what's good for you is not good for me. And so it's good to look at others for ideas and to try them out and see what they feel like. But if they don't work for you, you don't want to feel like a failure. in improving yourself because someone else's method didn't work for you. And it was interesting, I was talking to someone who was like, she really appreciated my approach because she said when she decided to do personal development, she started feeling like a failure at personal development because she couldn't wake up at five in the morning. So
speaker-1: I was going to jump in here real quick because that for me was a huge thing. There's so many of us who we dive into this thinking that we need to radically change our lives and that all of these tools that we're hearing from, from a lot of these big names and the books we've read and every bit of information we've taken in, this says, I'm going to use your get up at 5 a.m. every morning. When you can't do that, And then you feel like a failure and then it actually creates more of a downward spiral and you're harder on yourself because you can't live up to these strategies and ideas that all these other big names are doing that have all these results that you want. And we take it so hard on ourselves. Is there a better way?
speaker-0: Yes, the way that I found is initially I called my program Inner Engineering because you engineer yourself from within. You use your data and diagnostics that you receive from yourself and the data you receive, the biggest indicator are your emotions. And so when you learn what your emotions mean, you know exactly what to do with them. And that's what is the foundation, one of the foundational learnings in relaxed productivity. is we talk about why we feel certain emotions and when you do feel a negative emotion, what to do with it. There's a lot of emotional, I think there was a certification you can get which you learn like all the emotions. I mean, I don't understand how you learn all the emotions because there's such a huge range, right? But all I need to know is if it's a good feeling or a bad feeling and how good and how bad it is. So when I teach people how to do that, it's like, there's more understanding. There's more like that people give themselves a break because it's like, yeah, you know, my mind is doing the best job it can. It's giving me these data points. And now I understand exactly where I am on this emotional scale.
speaker-1: So it sounds like you've built a framework with the structures and components to really give someone a very detailed plan on how to understand their feelings and how to not get overwhelmed by all of these external things out there that we're so hard on ourselves with. Yet for somebody such as myself who really has some major ADHD some days and really struggles with being put on a structure, how does your plan, how does relaxed productivity work for someone who might need a little more flexibility?
speaker-0: It's actually completely flexible. So once you learn the foundations, I teach you about how your mind actually works, how to hack the way it works so that it works better for you, and then reading the diagnostics, so your emotions. Now, the interesting part is, you know, when I, I've worked mostly with men and so men are typically unemotional or a lot of times they, they'll react internally. but then they'll suppress it. And that often causes issues down the line. When you're constantly suppressing your emotions, that is actually, it's kind of like, you know, burning yourself and keeping your hand there. So it's, it's also a part of me is to tell people who don't want to talk about emotions. Cause I know especially people who are used to suppressing it, they're like, please don't make me feel anything. Or like, we're not going to hold hands and, you know, do kumbaya or anything, but it's It's like use that data, that emotion as data and a lot of people can relate to that, but make sure you feel it because if you don't feel the emotion, you aren't able to listen to yourself. And sometimes that requires retraining as well to start feeling things. So that's a bit of a nuance of it is that you got to let yourself feel. And when you start feeling yet, you know exactly what to do with it. then you can actually live life a little bit more with wild abandon because it's okay to feel sad. ⁓ It's okay to feel mad because you know what it means. I'll just give you a quick example. Like if you feel an extreme negative emotion, it's always like a teeter totter. If you're feeling the extremes, it's because you care and love so much. It's like grief when someone dies. You don't really care too much when someone you don't know passes away. Like you feel sorry about it. but it's not a huge hit like when my dad died. That was a huge hit because I loved him so much. So when we're angry, when we're sad, we can feel it and then appreciate what it meant.
speaker-1: seen or what's your take on people that have been raised in a cultural or in a generation, a lot of the older generation, we're really taught to suppress our feelings and not talk about them. I know we're getting better about it now and our generations are definitely far more open to it, but there are still many cultures, age groups that it's just been ingrained into them. How do we pull that out?
speaker-0: I think it's up to the individual because maybe you're more comfortable that way, but you don't squeeze the juice out of the lemon, so to say. You're always going to be living this very steady kind of beige life. And if you want to see more colors, you want to feel more energy around it, then you would look into like, how can I make my life more colorful by feeling these emotions and yet not letting the negative emotions take you down. So there's, you know, those two ends of the spectrum where you've got people who suppress, yet you've probably heard of the book of your body keeps record or something. So you start to get these pains and illnesses if you suppress your emotions. Yet a lot of times people are living too much in their conscious life where they're like feeling so upset or, you know, it gets too dramatic because they're also not reading what this is telling them, they're just feeling it and then just being this person you can't relate to anymore because they're just in their feels all the time. So there is that extreme balance that you want to have in life.
speaker-1: talking about living in our feelings, as you stepped into this new project of relaxed productivity, did you ever feel any form of imposter syndrome or how did it make you feel? Because you're now going from a very corporate place into something drastically different and new. How did you accept those feelings and work through them and not get stuck or let the fear seep in or imposter syndrome? or all those things that we all know come when you're making that kind of change.
speaker-0: Yeah, the part of realizing or understanding relaxed productivity gives me the courage to do all this stuff because I'm also, I'm here as a being to create. So why the hell not? You know, that's one of my mantras to myself is like, if I want to do something, just do it because why the hell not? What is so, what's going to happen to you? A lot of, know, when I looked at representation out in the personal development world, I'm visibly Asian. Although I'm probably one of the least Asian people. I might know more menu items than you, but that's probably as far as I go. ⁓ and I've got, you know, I've got ptosis of, so one of my eyes is smaller because it was closed when I was, when I was a kid. So when I was trying to, you know, knowing I'm going to do this more public facing job, part of those really held me back. Like I don't look like anyone else. I kind of even look a little funny and, but. then when I flip it and it's like, that's why I need to do this because not all personal development are these beautiful white people. You know, I've got to be out there to, to actually mix it up a bit, to put a little color in everyone's life. And what I've learned is that people that really resonate with you, they will, they will seek you out. And the people that don't like you, they weren't meant for you. There's so many people in this space and And I think when you know the truth about how life works, we all kind of say the same thing, but in different ways. So who do you resonate with and then just follow them. So I am not for everybody, although I think I'm pretty fun, but you know, it's all up to everyone's personal decision.
speaker-1: going from your relaxed productivity, then you took another step and you started to write books. One of the books I've actually heard about called using number two to get into number one. Let's dive into that because it's got a bit of a fun name. Tell me about it. How did you come up with it? What's the theory behind it? What drove you to go from building a platform to now writing a book too?
speaker-0: Well, the book actually came way before all of this because as a kid, I loved books. I was a voracious reader. Books were, you you pick up a new book and you just, the smell, the texture, the font, like everything is just pure heaven to me. So I was, I love books. So the origin story of this crazy book, which is personal development around the metaphor of the digestive system, is I think I've just become a little bit too aware of digestive things because on this, as I was growing up, there's two stories, I think. And we can all blame our parents for stuff because, know, why are you this way? It's because my mom treated me this way. This is exactly the same thing. So we live on an acreage and it's the acreage I grew up on. And I remember my dad, was always just like, why is a septic tank keep, the septic pump keep getting plugged? And he was sure we were using too much toilet paper. So this went on for a while and he just, he could not, he could not figure out why this kept getting plugged. So he eventually said, okay, you guys are going to be on toilet paper rations. I'm going to have the toilet paper roll in my pocket. When you need to go, you come, you tell me what you're going to do. You get one, one square for number one and two squares for number two. That's it. Cause that's how he was going to control this plugging. So I just remember. as a kid having to think about my bathroom processes a little too much. And you know, when you're playing as a kid, sometimes you just don't make it. You you don't, you get distracted. So there's a lot of times I'd be sitting on the toilet yelling for help or running outside to find him. You know, we're on 10 acres and he was landscaping. It was like, dad, I gotta go to the bathroom and not making it. So there was a lot of, I think in my brain, there's too much focus on going to the bathroom. And then my mom's point in this is that she would always tell me, she goes, Angie, you are constipated. And I'm like, what? She goes, yeah, I, I'm listening to you go to the bathroom and you're not making the right sounds. They're too plippy ploppy. They should just be silent as you go to the bathroom. I'm just like, what? Like someone's listening to me go to the bathroom. I thought this was a private event, you know? So it just made me so super self-conscious about doing number two. And I think that's just carried me through my entire life. But as I've been learning more personal development and learning life, just going through life, everything was a digestive metaphor. And I had this idea of this book maybe two decades ago. So I just started collecting stories in my brain. And when COVID hit, I was like, right, this is the time for me to write this book. And that's when I started actually putting pen to paper.
speaker-1: Using number two to get to number one, what does it really mean? What is the story that is entailed in the message that you want people to take out of that book?
speaker-0: Well, so the using number two is of course the digestive processes to get to number one, which means you're number one. So within the book give, it's kind of very relaxed productivity, but it's using all the tools that you have using reminders from our digestive system to become the best you that you want to be, not comparing. So the comparing thing is like, you don't compare your poo with someone else's poo. Right? So just mind your own business, watch your own bowl. Other ideas are like what we eat is kind of like what thoughts you put in your mind. Are they going to agree with your system or not? And different thoughts affect different people. Just like my, one of my best friends, she cannot eat lettuce. And I thought lettuce was really benign. When I want something just with crunching, it's like solidified water, then I'll have lettuce. But for her, it's like she eats lettuce and she's immediately in the bathroom making interesting noises. So it's like we all digest things differently. So we cannot compare ourselves to other people. And of course, you know, going to the bathroom is letting things go. You don't think about, so you know, poo is all the stuff that doesn't, your system doesn't want. So it's got to let go of it. So there are things in your life that you should let go of as well. for some reason in our minds, we hold on to things that have affected us negatively. But just let it go because when's the last time you thought of a deposit you've done in the toilet for longer than it took to flush it? You don't think about stuff. So it's all of those kind of parallels to remind you as you do those things during the day of how to live the life that's best for you.
speaker-1: taking a step forward. You've now built relaxed productivity. You've got your book fully done and published and you're out speaking to people. What's next? What is the next step and evolutionary place for you?
speaker-0: That's a really good question because I was just talking to my husband about that last night because I was like, what is my end goal here? No clue. There's a few more books I want to write. I would like to write ⁓ a relaxed productivity book so that my methodology is written down and it's almost like a textbook for people who want to do my courses and membership. But it's also a book that people can read and just get the idea of what it's all about. And, you know, I always have books going on in my head, but that one is kind of my next project.
speaker-1: And I know that we're not supposed to compare and comparison is terrible, but I do want us to have a little bit of comparison here. If you look back on the life you were living as a COO and in the corporate world to the life you're living today, how does it make you feel and what's the difference that you're seeing?
speaker-0: That's a good question. It's kind of like, you remember that movie Sliding Doors is like you'd make one decision and it changes the outcome of your life and you never know what it could have been. But what I really like about what I've done is I've affected my financial picture quite a bit in a negative sense, but it feels so good. It feels like this is purposeful work. I'm having so much fun. meeting a lot of people through it. I know that people enjoy the speeches that I make and I'm enjoying getting books out. So it's kind of like what I mentioned. I could be going through all the motions. I could be doing the vacations, doing all the cars, the home and all that stuff. And I still have all that stuff, but it's like seeing a blue sky and really appreciating it. It's appreciating the cold on your skin. We still got way too much snow here. But you know, it's one of those just getting the essence out of life. I feel so limitless. I feel like I can do whatever I want to do. I just need to focus. Whereas previously I was going through the motions. I was having a great time. mean, everything and I think that's the story is you can have a good life whether or not you dive into personal development. But when you want to be better, when you want things to be better, when that little voice inside of you is saying, is this all that there is? You know, then that's the question you need to answer. And Relax Productivity gives you the tools to answer it because it answered it for me. I know the people, especially in my membership, I see them twice a month. It's made a difference in their lives too. So I think what I love is that my kids can also see me doing weird things, doing new things, doing things that I don't even know what the heck I'm doing, but I just do it anyway. I think they like that. And in the age of social media, where their gen-ex mom is doing posts, I think they're actually kind of proud of me.
speaker-1: all your work that you've done, the transformation that you've taken on and information that you've brought in, looking at it from your engineering background to your self-development platforms. Now, what is one of the greatest pieces of advice that you hold onto? What is your biggest nugget that you love?
speaker-0: There's so many nuggets, but I think the one that keeps me doing and creating is the why the hell not mantra I have for myself. But also what I'm focusing on this year is presence because I really believe presence is the new productivity. Because when we are where our feet are, so I was just telling people be where your feet are and you really appreciate. Like when you're with your family, be with your family. Don't, you know, check off grocery lists or all that stuff. There's a, there's time for planning. But when you're at work, be at work. And when you are fully present, that productivity is skyrocketed. And we often think of productivity as work focused. But what I challenge the people in my sphere is to be more holistic with their productivity goals. Like how many sunsets did you watch this week? Or did I, how many moments did I create with my spouse where it was just the two of us? You know, we need to measure more things other than work. So relaxed productivity, which I often do have to explain. So maybe I should rethink that, but people often think that I'm just going to tell them to do less work because they'll say, yeah, I need to do that. Just so busy at work. But it's not that it's like when you can figure out how your mind works, what your emotions tell you. You can do whatever you want in your life, but feel better. can, you, like a lot of people say, quit your corporate job and, you know, go sit on a yacht in Bali. But like the kids have to get to martial art lessons. So how can I do that? You know, there's, it's just not realistic for so many people. It's like people telling you to get up at 5 a.m. and do, you know, your power hour when your kid's been sick all night. Some things just, you have to do some things. And when you learn how to work with your mind, everything that you do, no matter what you do, feels purposeful, feels joyful, feels part of your chosen story. So what I tell people is you can have it all because you're the one who defines what all is.
speaker-1: You have dropped two things in there that I'm sitting here thinking, I love how she just said that. What you said about be where your feet are. I love that. Like that is, if everybody out there is hearing this, take that one massively. Be where your feet are.
speaker-0: That's my slogan for this year. This is what I'm pushing this year, just because presence is the new productivity.
speaker-1: This seems like a great place to bring our conversation full circle. And at the end of every one of these beautiful conversations that I feel so grateful to get to have, I like to pose a really powerful question. The question that I throw out is, and you have this on your website, so I kind of laughed how similar we are to this, but what is your definition of truly living your best life?
speaker-0: I think what it means to me is that I am unleashed. am unleashed from the thoughts that hold me back, from the opinions that hold me back, that I am in the world totally joyful because joyful is really the direction. What is that? You know, the compass. It's our North Star. Joy is the North Star. Look, I'm making slogans just as I'm talking to you because when we follow our joy, and we be who we truly allow ourselves to be, ugh, that's our true gift to the world.
speaker-1: beautifully said. Before we wrap up our conversation here, I just want to give you the opportunity to be able to share with everybody where else can they find about relaxed productivity and your book and how can they learn more about
speaker-0: Well, my website is simply angelajamison.com, which needs to be updated, but I will do it soon. But it's got all the stuff on it and LinkedIn. I'm pretty, pretty consistent on LinkedIn. And I think that's about it. My book is on Amazon or anywhere you want to buy books. If it's not in your bookstore, they can order it.
speaker-1: And all those links and everything will also be in the show notes, everybody. will make sure to make sure that we are getting Angela as connected to you as possible. So Angela, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been an incredible conversation.
speaker-0: Thank you,
speaker-1: What a conversation. Angela, thank you so much for bringing your engineering mind, your heart, and your philosophy into the show today. If today's episode lit something inside of you, if you're ready to stop the endless grind and start building a life that actually feels good, then make sure you head to the show notes right now. You'll find all of Angela's links, her website, the Relax Productivity membership, and her social channels. And while you're there, do yourself a big favor and grab a copy of her bestselling book. using number two to get to number one. Trust me, it's as insightful as it is entertaining. And as always, if this episode hit all the right places for you, pay it forward. Share it with a friend, a colleague, or someone in your life who's been running on empty and needs the permission to put themselves first. Because when podcasts become conversations, they create ripples we may never fully know how far they'll go. This has been Let's Get Selfish. I'm your host, Brian White, and we'll see you in the next episode.
