WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_10]: If you work in sustainability, impact, or purpose driven business, there's a good chance you've had this moment.
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[SPEAKER_10]: You care deeply and you're doing the work, yet progress is much harder than it should be.
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[SPEAKER_10]: You're adamant that you're doing the right thing, but maybe you've wondered if you're actually doing the right things.
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[SPEAKER_10]: On our show, it shouldn't be this hard.
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[SPEAKER_10]: We talked to business leaders, sustainability professionals, along with social impact activists and entrepreneurs, who are trying to change how business sees sustainability and how in turn sustainability can drive business performance.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And in this episode, we zoom out from the individual stories and start looking at the patterns that kept showing up last year.
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[SPEAKER_06]: We're changed breaks down while good intention is stall and what actually makes movement possible.
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[SPEAKER_06]: If you've ever felt stuck between intention and impact, this will probably sound familiar.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Our hope is that by the end of this video, you leave with a clear way to think about your work and where to focus next.
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[SPEAKER_06]: To make sure that doing the right thing translates into doing the right things,
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[SPEAKER_01]: So across these conversations we had this season, the same thing kept coming up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: People who really care.
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[SPEAKER_01]: One person who we talked about it honestly with was David Caps, which I'm like a long story.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It does.
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[SPEAKER_06]: I think he is a raster.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The founder of Plastic Bank.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He spent several years working right at the intersection of poverty, plastic pollution and global supply chains.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If the problem is this visible and the stakes of this high, why does it take real action?
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[SPEAKER_01]: inside businesses, and why do they find it so hard to change it?
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[SPEAKER_11]: It's not difficult.
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[SPEAKER_11]: They just choose not to.
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[SPEAKER_11]: It's possible for them to make a change for sure, of course.
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[SPEAKER_11]: Very, very simple.
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[SPEAKER_11]: But they choose to steward to shareholders first as the law.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know about you, but I think we find it frustrating sometimes here at Grounded as well as in it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When you see the opportunity and it looks so straightforward and it's so compelling and it's so big.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and sometimes you wonder why an earth's nothing happens.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that's fair.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Shouldn't be this difficult.
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[SPEAKER_06]: But sometimes just doing something, it's difficult.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't be this hard.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess that's it, isn't it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because on paper, in theory, a lot of these things sound objective.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They sound logical.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They sound practical.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But putting that intention into action.
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[SPEAKER_01]: is often a very very different thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And again David had a point of view around the natural laws of Darwinism might be kind of driving hell and why some organisations succeed and maybe others don't.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And he said this.
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[SPEAKER_11]: Darwinism that states that it's not the strong that survive.
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[SPEAKER_11]: It's the one's most apt to change.
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[SPEAKER_11]: And I'll reflect on an experience that I had at one of the world's largest card manufacturers when I sat on the top floor of their building with a senior board member.
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[SPEAKER_11]: That in the conversation around partnering with us said David, it's not going to happen because people have more images to pay.
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[SPEAKER_11]: And the reference there was that no one was willing to take the risk.
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[SPEAKER_11]: because they were afraid that if it didn't work out, it would mean their career, their ability to pay their mortgage and on and on.
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[SPEAKER_11]: They all wanted to do something, but they were afraid.
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[SPEAKER_11]: We are still all living in the base of needs.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess that's a situation a lot of as fun as I was in, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about caring or not caring.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually about fear.
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[SPEAKER_01]: responsibility and yeah and I guess sometimes systems and incentives are actually built to punish risk and character organizations to step out the status quo or you have to respond to what's immediately in front of you in the commercial reality of the here and now rather than trying to think so far ahead into the future which doesn't necessarily right now have a material impact on how you run your business like this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if this tension feels familiar to you, you're not imagining it at all.
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[SPEAKER_06]: No, this isn't just a founder problem.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It's not even something limited to social enterprises.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Jenny Morgan.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It's just the author of Council Culture and Climate.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And she spent years working with large organizations on sustainability and climate strategy, including companies like Microsoft, Trade Water and Pack 3.
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[SPEAKER_12]: How can we talk about pretty good?
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[SPEAKER_12]: even like what what is pretty good wind can pretty good be acceptable wind can positive efforts be something that is actually celebrated versus villainized if brands or businesses don't feel like they have it perfect to 100% then they trip over themselves but yeah that pretty good part is a real pain point.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So cross-inducing results, this kind of kept coming up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not an intention problem.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the fact that people don't want to do the right thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's systemic barriers to action.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that makes progress slow, fragile, and sometimes hard to initiate, and definitely very hard to sustain.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's very easy to vilify companies, but companies are just, companies are people, people are companies.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, this is a very human challenge.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And this is where a lot of the work really gets stuck in the people.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Not because people don't care, but because the systems around them make it hard to act.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When we know it's not a motivation problem, then things start to make a little bit more sense.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So sustainability, I guess, is being asked to live inside operational systems that actually just don't build for it in the first place.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of one you think about it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then when these operations systems get stressed, they fall back to their default setting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So in other words, what they were designed to do in the first place, whatever feels safest.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's something, Karima, systems change expert and founder of Illumin.earth
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[SPEAKER_01]: from inside large, global institutions and she's worked across human rights, social justice and international systems.
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[SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is what she had to say.
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[SPEAKER_13]: Very large organizations for profit, nonprofit, it took a moment till they value and they incentivize and then they develop for conformity.
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[SPEAKER_13]: Everybody who conforms, like all the people who learn coding, to conform to the market and you know that it was going to be the best career ever or now.
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[SPEAKER_13]: panicking, you know, it's not, it's not even a good thing to conform anymore, it's still there and he's so had we actually bring out our individuality, I had why, how do we exercise that full range of motion of our own personality and values for our good and the good of others on the planet?
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[SPEAKER_06]: Gosh, after all of that, it just really makes me want to sit back and have a cup of coffee.
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[SPEAKER_06]: We spoke with Michelle Fish and Bob Fish, co-founders of one big island in space by
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[SPEAKER_14]: 10 years ago, when we decided to go to our first coffee farm, coffee was under threat because of the steam market.
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[SPEAKER_14]: I am the way the steam market functions.
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[SPEAKER_14]: So about 80% of the time over the last 20 years, coffee farmers have been cost by a paid less than the cost of production.
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[SPEAKER_14]: So that's not sustainable.
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[SPEAKER_14]: You take shortcuts.
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[SPEAKER_14]: You take shortcuts, usually first with your family.
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[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you stop sending your kids to school.
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[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you can't afford to ever go to the doctor.
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[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you've come food insecure.
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[SPEAKER_14]: But eventually, you have no choice.
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[SPEAKER_14]: You've got to walk off the land.
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[SPEAKER_14]: The other thing is climate change.
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[SPEAKER_14]: Climate change is having a devastating impact in coffee country.
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[SPEAKER_14]: What places are getting water?
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[SPEAKER_14]: Dreadplaces are getting drier and with that comes past and pastful and some disease and the need for new knowledge, new farming techniques.
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[SPEAKER_14]: We need to do something to be the change and we have this tremendous opportunity because bigly coffee buys a lot of coffee every year.
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[SPEAKER_14]: This year it'll be around 3 million pounds of coffee.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So it seems to me what Michelle is really talking about here isn't a supply issue.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It's the economy of supply and demand.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And it's skewed in favor of those who have means and the resources to control that supply chain.
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[SPEAKER_07]: There are a couple of dollars for the importer.
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[SPEAKER_07]: A couple more for the Roaster.
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[SPEAKER_07]: There's some shipping costs.
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[SPEAKER_07]: And the final retail, it makes a couple bucks too.
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[SPEAKER_07]: So that's nine of your $10 right there.
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[SPEAKER_09]: Wait a minute.
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[SPEAKER_09]: All that nine dollars happens in the wealthy countries, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: The poor countries that produce it only make a dollar.
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[SPEAKER_07]: Well, sort of.
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[SPEAKER_07]: We still have to pay the exporter, the taxes, the transportation, the dry, and wet mills out of that dollar.
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[SPEAKER_07]: But don't worry, all the rest of that goes to the farm.
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[SPEAKER_07]: Holy ****, that's just a few cents.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And of course the farmer still has to pay for the labor to maintain his fields all year round.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, buy all the things they need to run the farm?
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[SPEAKER_09]: Not to mention their food, their shelter, their education for their families.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then this bulb.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Michelle's husband, who also just happens to be co-co-co-he in co-founder of one big island in the space with Michelle.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He goes on to say something that a lot of people tend to roll their eyes out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And they hear it and they think, well, all right, well, that's nice, but where's the business case?
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[SPEAKER_08]: The kind of work we do might be considered a little do-goodery, and maybe even
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[SPEAKER_08]: charitable work, possibly like some of my confused what we're doing as philanthropic and it's not.
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[SPEAKER_08]: This is this is a complete capital model, right?
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[SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, the reason it's a capital model for us is what we are trying to do, this might even be considered selfish, is secure us applying to a coffee, because coffee is at risk.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And so we're trying to guarantee
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[SPEAKER_08]: We're trying to make sure that we can get that supply at a stable price.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And so when we started in 2018, we could see that because the climate change and because producers were walking out their farms, the production was going to level out, but because of population growth to fly or excuse me, demand was going to continue on, right?
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[SPEAKER_08]: So what were we going to do to guarantee a supply and stabilize the price, right?
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[SPEAKER_08]: or ensure that farmers could farm.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And so our solution was that direct trade model that we call farm direct, where we eliminate the middle people and push those inevitable savings down to the producers so that they can be economically viable.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So we can have a guaranteed supply at a stable price, right?
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[SPEAKER_08]: So what I want to say about it is it just makes good business sense
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[SPEAKER_08]: or the other way to look at that is if you're working on a capital model that is extractive, eventually that extraction will end.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It just will, you know, unfeathered capitalism is self-destructive.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Capitalism needs some boundaries.
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[SPEAKER_08]: I'm not talking about regulation, but they can be moral boundaries or they can be the boundaries that
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[SPEAKER_08]: say or admit that earth is finite and what we take from it, we need to make sure we replace or we'll be in trouble.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And that's our basic overall approach to business.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So there's a selfish side to it.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It is all that I'm saying.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It's certainly not due goodery and it's not it's not philanthropy.
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[SPEAKER_08]: We have our own agenda.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It's just one that
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[SPEAKER_08]: is people's centric, climate's centric, and community's centric.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess the next question is then what actually makes people feel empowered to stand up and fight and resist the system and try and transform it and try and change it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Not in theory, but the harder thing is in practice.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that that feels really applicable to the conversation we had with Amelia Landers from Starbucks.
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[SPEAKER_06]: because you think about how you buy coffee.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It's an industry built around convenience.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So you don't have to think very hard.
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[SPEAKER_06]: You just kind of just go.
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[SPEAKER_06]: This is what Amelia is talking about is what happens when sustainability asks people to slow down or do something extra on those steps beyond just get the coffee and drink it.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And how quickly that breaks down, if it doesn't fit into how people already live their lives.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think with any sustainability topic, it's a multi-pronged approach, it's many different ways.
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[SPEAKER_03]: First, you have to be where the customer is and deliver the best, most convenient experience that they want to have.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And so, for us, that looked like enabling a reusable cup in every order channel, if that's what you want.
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[SPEAKER_03]: but not forcing it on customers who don't want it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We enabled a customer to order a beverage in the drive through or on mobile order and pay and use their personal cup, which was new this last year.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We had long honored a personal cup coming into the cafe 10 cents off 25 stars, but these highly convenience motivated on the go order channels of drive through and mobile order.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We just brought those online.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that
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[SPEAKER_03]: That was for a small percentage of our customers who have been wanting to use their personal cut because for them, just as important as their coffee, it's the cup that's meaningful to them.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It starts their morning off right, it's comfort, it's whatever it is emotionally.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And so just enabling that as a foundation for those customers.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting, even though that's a small percentage of our occasion of people using personal cups,
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[SPEAKER_03]: is a very passionate percent of our customer base.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And when we unlocked that for customers that announcement really garnered by far and away more social media engagement than our product launches in that window of time, it was very well received.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, we met those customers where they were
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[SPEAKER_03]: for their coffee.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We operationalized it in a way that was very smooth and seamless and quick and in our timing requirements so that the convenience of everybody was taken into consideration.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, I guess that's the shift.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Effectively, people don't change because they're told to, but change obviously becomes a lot easier when convenience and I guess you can say conscience collide.
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[SPEAKER_06]: But even when systems are redesigned, change can still stall because in the end we're
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[SPEAKER_06]: and this came through again in our conversation with Jenny Morgan.
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[SPEAKER_12]: If you come to a conversation with curiosity and actually asking what the problems are and coming from a collaborative mindset, it unlocks so many opportunities and actually gets everybody on the same team, whereas the first version isolates and separates.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So basically, if shame shuts people down and judgment pushes them out, real change asks people to step up and into uncomfortable realities and just stay there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that actually brings to mind that conversation we have with Jennifer Mottless.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So Jennifer is the Chief Sustainability Officer of Philip Morris International.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that she spent the last decade trying to basically reinvent Philip Morris International from the inside out to imagine a world without cigarettes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I had my career as human rights lawyer working at the UN.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: for a cigarette company.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But then at the same time, I think that my entire drive and my entire life, my, what I, I was trying to do was to create change and positive impact.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I did post at the time, and I, and I did wonder like,
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[SPEAKER_00]: A is this for real and B will be able to do it that there are many things that we disagree with in life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's very easy to disagree from a distance, you know?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's very easy to say, oh no, not for me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This I don't like, boycott, protest, cancel, exclude, divest.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all good, but normally when you do that, the problem doesn't really go away.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It just doesn't, it just becomes somebody else's problem to solve.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of energy and a lot of courage, and I don't say it for me, I say it in general, to go into those places that make you so uncomfortable, that you need to go there to change the status quo.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But that sense of uncertainty and what to do with that, kept on coming up, same sense of powerlessness, and same sense of just being completely overwhelmed, and what to imagine.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So Kathy, she's the former Chief Communications Officer over at the Washington Post, now at McDonald's.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And she talked about it easy.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It's become for people to feel overwhelmed and shut down.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Many people in my network, surprising people who will say, I can't read the news anymore.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I'm too tired.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It just really upsets me.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's bad for my mental health.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And I can understand that, too, a certain extent, but I also think that's incredibly privileged.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's a privileged perspective that I can't sign up for, because if you check out and you're staying not active, you're accepting the way things are.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And I really believe that at the local level is like, even if you can't control again
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[SPEAKER_05]: at the local level, you can be involved in your own community.
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[SPEAKER_05]: That's also threatening to democracy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So when people feel overwhelmed instead of empowered, the work doesn't stop.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it just goes quiet, right?
17:21.177 --> 17:21.858
[SPEAKER_01]: It gets hushed up.
17:22.458 --> 17:23.019
[SPEAKER_01]: Greenhushing.
17:23.199 --> 17:32.513
[SPEAKER_01]: So greenhushing is actually a byproduct of people feeling disempowered and stuck because they don't really know what to do.
17:32.873 --> 17:33.574
[SPEAKER_06]: End of raid.
17:33.622 --> 17:35.506
[SPEAKER_01]: and afraid of doing the wrong thing.
17:35.706 --> 17:36.869
[SPEAKER_01]: Kathy names people.
17:37.029 --> 17:39.053
[SPEAKER_01]: She talked about people that were checking out.
17:39.494 --> 17:47.952
[SPEAKER_01]: And thinking about our next guest, Hillary, what was interesting about her and her perspective, having worked for many years on Gillette and FNG.
17:48.421 --> 17:58.414
[SPEAKER_01]: and then moving into a company called divert, which is about effectively recycling, redistributing food waste, turning into energy.
17:58.494 --> 17:59.495
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm turning into energy.
17:59.515 --> 18:11.610
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really uplifting to listen to how her think about how they've built a system to redirect food waste, to not only make sure that the food they get.
18:11.590 --> 18:23.213
[SPEAKER_01]: thrown off supermarket shelters actually redirected and redistributed people need it, but how waste food can actually become energy that can power our lives and create this circular system.
18:23.454 --> 18:26.680
[SPEAKER_04]: Well think about what that went into that food.
18:26.660 --> 18:43.791
[SPEAKER_04]: You had the farmers who grew it and they watered it and then they transported it and then somebody packaged it and then transported it in all those dollars and it said it's highest in best use once it gets to the store and then a third of it gets thrown away.
18:43.871 --> 18:46.937
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't realize how much food was going to waste.
18:47.337 --> 18:48.820
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think people do know.
18:49.053 --> 19:00.030
[SPEAKER_04]: And for me, it became this opportunity to let people know all those facts that you just said and try to find a solution that's going to fix that problem and help us waste less.
19:00.771 --> 19:05.559
[SPEAKER_04]: And keep more products being sold or repurposed in a way that people in need can eat them.
19:05.779 --> 19:12.850
[SPEAKER_01]: So lots of wisdom, lots of learnings, and maybe some reflections and lessons as we kind of start this year.
19:13.387 --> 19:18.752
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe ominously and start to kind of figure out what change looks like.
19:18.772 --> 19:23.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So lesson one I guess is that change doesn't stall because people don't care.
19:24.998 --> 19:33.086
[SPEAKER_01]: It stalls when systems aren't designed to support them and actually work against them and make them feel that that change is impossible.
19:34.767 --> 19:40.913
[SPEAKER_01]: And also when effort goes and a notice them people feel called out rather than called in.
19:41.770 --> 19:49.319
[SPEAKER_01]: and maybe when people start to lose faith that what they actually do has some value, has some meaning and really matters.
19:51.101 --> 20:06.059
[SPEAKER_01]: We heard how friction and so hushing can quietly shut things down, how shame pushes people out and doesn't invite people in and how feeling overwhelmed, turns positive energy and engagement into apathy and often in action.
20:07.501 --> 20:09.043
[SPEAKER_01]: But we also heard some
20:09.563 --> 20:13.288
[SPEAKER_01]: We also heard that progress doesn't just come from getting everything right.
20:14.390 --> 20:17.474
[SPEAKER_01]: As Yoda and Star Wars said, do or do not?
20:17.494 --> 20:19.557
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no try.
20:20.258 --> 20:25.706
[SPEAKER_06]: But that I think is an interesting connection about little things, because little things actually count.
20:29.250 --> 20:30.893
[SPEAKER_06]: Interesting thing what Yoda and I have in common.
20:31.474 --> 20:32.175
[SPEAKER_01]: About the same height.
20:32.195 --> 20:32.875
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
20:33.376 --> 20:37.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Global chains surprise.
20:37.795 --> 20:42.486
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know Bob, who's Michelle's wife, so I'm not Michelle's wife.
20:42.746 --> 20:46.976
[SPEAKER_06]: I think I might have a motivation problem.
20:47.016 --> 20:52.569
[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe like if we all had a little cream on our cup of coffee, every day, we could have a big better.
20:53.010 --> 20:55.054
[SPEAKER_06]: Bravo, bra!
20:56.558 --> 21:04.917
[SPEAKER_06]: Stay tuned for the next season, and in the meantime feel free to visit us at Grounded.world because it should be this hard, and it really doesn't have to be.
00:04.283 --> 00:09.818
[SPEAKER_10]: If you work in sustainability, impact, or purpose driven business, there's a good chance you've had this moment.
00:10.119 --> 00:14.651
[SPEAKER_10]: You care deeply and you're doing the work, yet progress is much harder than it should be.
00:15.173 --> 00:20.487
[SPEAKER_10]: You're adamant that you're doing the right thing, but maybe you've wondered if you're actually doing the right things.
00:20.467 --> 00:22.552
[SPEAKER_10]: On our show, it shouldn't be this hard.
00:22.653 --> 00:35.927
[SPEAKER_10]: We talked to business leaders, sustainability professionals, along with social impact activists and entrepreneurs, who are trying to change how business sees sustainability and how in turn sustainability can drive business performance.
00:40.210 --> 00:46.838
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this episode, we zoom out from the individual stories and start looking at the patterns that kept showing up last year.
00:47.439 --> 00:52.085
[SPEAKER_06]: We're changed breaks down while good intention is stall and what actually makes movement possible.
00:52.826 --> 00:57.271
[SPEAKER_06]: If you've ever felt stuck between intention and impact, this will probably sound familiar.
00:57.311 --> 01:03.038
[SPEAKER_06]: Our hope is that by the end of this video, you leave with a clear way to think about your work and where to focus next.
01:03.379 --> 01:06.943
[SPEAKER_06]: To make sure that doing the right thing translates into doing the right things,
01:10.282 --> 01:14.467
[SPEAKER_01]: So across these conversations we had this season, the same thing kept coming up.
01:14.887 --> 01:16.108
[SPEAKER_01]: People who really care.
01:16.669 --> 01:20.833
[SPEAKER_01]: One person who we talked about it honestly with was David Caps, which I'm like a long story.
01:20.994 --> 01:21.614
[SPEAKER_06]: It does.
01:21.634 --> 01:22.535
[SPEAKER_06]: I think he is a raster.
01:22.635 --> 01:23.997
[SPEAKER_01]: The founder of Plastic Bank.
01:24.698 --> 01:31.485
[SPEAKER_01]: He spent several years working right at the intersection of poverty, plastic pollution and global supply chains.
01:31.865 --> 01:38.112
[SPEAKER_01]: If the problem is this visible and the stakes of this high, why does it take real action?
01:38.092 --> 01:42.437
[SPEAKER_01]: inside businesses, and why do they find it so hard to change it?
01:42.617 --> 01:44.119
[SPEAKER_11]: It's not difficult.
01:44.139 --> 01:45.560
[SPEAKER_11]: They just choose not to.
01:45.580 --> 01:48.163
[SPEAKER_11]: It's possible for them to make a change for sure, of course.
01:48.344 --> 01:49.345
[SPEAKER_11]: Very, very simple.
01:49.785 --> 01:53.469
[SPEAKER_11]: But they choose to steward to shareholders first as the law.
01:53.489 --> 01:58.835
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know about you, but I think we find it frustrating sometimes here at Grounded as well as in it.
01:58.855 --> 02:04.842
[SPEAKER_01]: When you see the opportunity and it looks so straightforward and it's so compelling and it's so big.
02:04.973 --> 02:07.637
[SPEAKER_01]: and sometimes you wonder why an earth's nothing happens.
02:09.179 --> 02:10.300
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that's fair.
02:11.041 --> 02:12.103
[SPEAKER_06]: Shouldn't be this difficult.
02:12.203 --> 02:14.586
[SPEAKER_06]: But sometimes just doing something, it's difficult.
02:14.606 --> 02:15.027
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
02:15.067 --> 02:16.048
[SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't be this hard.
02:16.870 --> 02:18.031
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess that's it, isn't it?
02:18.051 --> 02:21.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Because on paper, in theory, a lot of these things sound objective.
02:21.937 --> 02:23.339
[SPEAKER_01]: They sound logical.
02:23.619 --> 02:24.520
[SPEAKER_01]: They sound practical.
02:25.001 --> 02:27.184
[SPEAKER_01]: But putting that intention into action.
02:27.991 --> 02:29.754
[SPEAKER_01]: is often a very very different thing.
02:30.055 --> 02:41.755
[SPEAKER_01]: And again David had a point of view around the natural laws of Darwinism might be kind of driving hell and why some organisations succeed and maybe others don't.
02:42.456 --> 02:43.418
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said this.
02:44.579 --> 02:49.126
[SPEAKER_11]: Darwinism that states that it's not the strong that survive.
02:49.146 --> 02:50.408
[SPEAKER_11]: It's the one's most apt to change.
02:50.468 --> 03:00.203
[SPEAKER_11]: And I'll reflect on an experience that I had at one of the world's largest card manufacturers when I sat on the top floor of their building with a senior board member.
03:01.144 --> 03:06.412
[SPEAKER_11]: That in the conversation around partnering with us said David, it's not going to happen because people have more images to pay.
03:07.033 --> 03:10.418
[SPEAKER_11]: And the reference there was that no one was willing to take the risk.
03:10.516 --> 03:15.646
[SPEAKER_11]: because they were afraid that if it didn't work out, it would mean their career, their ability to pay their mortgage and on and on.
03:16.809 --> 03:19.053
[SPEAKER_11]: They all wanted to do something, but they were afraid.
03:19.073 --> 03:22.921
[SPEAKER_11]: We are still all living in the base of needs.
03:22.941 --> 03:25.627
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess that's a situation a lot of as fun as I was in, right?
03:26.148 --> 03:28.553
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about caring or not caring.
03:28.573 --> 03:31.258
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually about fear.
03:31.340 --> 03:55.862
[SPEAKER_01]: responsibility and yeah and I guess sometimes systems and incentives are actually built to punish risk and character organizations to step out the status quo or you have to respond to what's immediately in front of you in the commercial reality of the here and now rather than trying to think so far ahead into the future which doesn't necessarily right now have a material impact on how you run your business like this.
03:56.517 --> 04:00.621
[SPEAKER_01]: So if this tension feels familiar to you, you're not imagining it at all.
04:00.982 --> 04:02.623
[SPEAKER_06]: No, this isn't just a founder problem.
04:02.824 --> 04:04.906
[SPEAKER_06]: It's not even something limited to social enterprises.
04:05.246 --> 04:05.867
[SPEAKER_06]: Jenny Morgan.
04:06.047 --> 04:06.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
04:06.548 --> 04:08.570
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just the author of Council Culture and Climate.
04:08.890 --> 04:16.718
[SPEAKER_06]: And she spent years working with large organizations on sustainability and climate strategy, including companies like Microsoft, Trade Water and Pack 3.
04:16.978 --> 04:20.382
[SPEAKER_12]: How can we talk about pretty good?
04:20.362 --> 04:40.463
[SPEAKER_12]: even like what what is pretty good wind can pretty good be acceptable wind can positive efforts be something that is actually celebrated versus villainized if brands or businesses don't feel like they have it perfect to 100% then they trip over themselves but yeah that pretty good part is a real pain point.
04:40.544 --> 04:44.027
[SPEAKER_01]: So cross-inducing results, this kind of kept coming up.
04:44.408 --> 04:45.949
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not an intention problem.
04:46.189 --> 04:48.892
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the fact that people don't want to do the right thing.
04:48.952 --> 04:51.674
[SPEAKER_01]: It's systemic barriers to action.
04:51.874 --> 04:59.702
[SPEAKER_01]: And that makes progress slow, fragile, and sometimes hard to initiate, and definitely very hard to sustain.
05:00.302 --> 05:05.747
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very easy to vilify companies, but companies are just, companies are people, people are companies.
05:06.027 --> 05:08.830
[SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, this is a very human challenge.
05:08.810 --> 05:11.861
[SPEAKER_06]: And this is where a lot of the work really gets stuck in the people.
05:12.362 --> 05:16.356
[SPEAKER_06]: Not because people don't care, but because the systems around them make it hard to act.
05:21.078 --> 05:25.984
[SPEAKER_01]: When we know it's not a motivation problem, then things start to make a little bit more sense.
05:26.004 --> 05:33.032
[SPEAKER_01]: So sustainability, I guess, is being asked to live inside operational systems that actually just don't build for it in the first place.
05:33.052 --> 05:34.073
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of one you think about it?
05:34.774 --> 05:38.639
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when these operations systems get stressed, they fall back to their default setting.
05:39.420 --> 05:43.524
[SPEAKER_01]: So in other words, what they were designed to do in the first place, whatever feels safest.
05:43.544 --> 05:50.933
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's something, Karima, systems change expert and founder of Illumin.earth
05:50.913 --> 05:58.905
[SPEAKER_01]: from inside large, global institutions and she's worked across human rights, social justice and international systems.
05:58.925 --> 05:59.065
[SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
05:59.626 --> 06:00.587
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what she had to say.
06:01.308 --> 06:11.283
[SPEAKER_13]: Very large organizations for profit, nonprofit, it took a moment till they value and they incentivize and then they develop for conformity.
06:11.303 --> 06:20.616
[SPEAKER_13]: Everybody who conforms, like all the people who learn coding, to conform to the market and you know that it was going to be the best career ever or now.
06:20.866 --> 06:39.132
[SPEAKER_13]: panicking, you know, it's not, it's not even a good thing to conform anymore, it's still there and he's so had we actually bring out our individuality, I had why, how do we exercise that full range of motion of our own personality and values for our good and the good of others on the planet?
06:39.553 --> 06:43.058
[SPEAKER_06]: Gosh, after all of that, it just really makes me want to sit back and have a cup of coffee.
06:43.258 --> 06:48.105
[SPEAKER_06]: We spoke with Michelle Fish and Bob Fish, co-founders of one big island in space by
06:48.423 --> 06:57.003
[SPEAKER_14]: 10 years ago, when we decided to go to our first coffee farm, coffee was under threat because of the steam market.
06:57.765 --> 06:59.389
[SPEAKER_14]: I am the way the steam market functions.
06:59.409 --> 07:06.786
[SPEAKER_14]: So about 80% of the time over the last 20 years, coffee farmers have been cost by a paid less than the cost of production.
07:07.390 --> 07:09.233
[SPEAKER_14]: So that's not sustainable.
07:09.273 --> 07:10.095
[SPEAKER_14]: You take shortcuts.
07:10.135 --> 07:11.998
[SPEAKER_14]: You take shortcuts, usually first with your family.
07:12.038 --> 07:13.781
[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you stop sending your kids to school.
07:14.342 --> 07:16.646
[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you can't afford to ever go to the doctor.
07:16.706 --> 07:18.249
[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you've come food insecure.
07:18.269 --> 07:20.433
[SPEAKER_14]: But eventually, you have no choice.
07:20.473 --> 07:22.095
[SPEAKER_14]: You've got to walk off the land.
07:22.176 --> 07:24.019
[SPEAKER_14]: The other thing is climate change.
07:24.039 --> 07:27.625
[SPEAKER_14]: Climate change is having a devastating impact in coffee country.
07:28.266 --> 07:29.348
[SPEAKER_14]: What places are getting water?
07:29.682 --> 07:37.429
[SPEAKER_14]: Dreadplaces are getting drier and with that comes past and pastful and some disease and the need for new knowledge, new farming techniques.
07:38.090 --> 07:46.578
[SPEAKER_14]: We need to do something to be the change and we have this tremendous opportunity because bigly coffee buys a lot of coffee every year.
07:47.038 --> 07:49.180
[SPEAKER_14]: This year it'll be around 3 million pounds of coffee.
07:52.583 --> 07:56.567
[SPEAKER_06]: So it seems to me what Michelle is really talking about here isn't a supply issue.
07:56.952 --> 07:58.975
[SPEAKER_06]: It's the economy of supply and demand.
07:59.776 --> 08:03.721
[SPEAKER_06]: And it's skewed in favor of those who have means and the resources to control that supply chain.
08:03.941 --> 08:06.004
[SPEAKER_07]: There are a couple of dollars for the importer.
08:06.064 --> 08:07.566
[SPEAKER_07]: A couple more for the Roaster.
08:07.626 --> 08:09.088
[SPEAKER_07]: There's some shipping costs.
08:09.189 --> 08:11.752
[SPEAKER_07]: And the final retail, it makes a couple bucks too.
08:11.832 --> 08:14.476
[SPEAKER_07]: So that's nine of your $10 right there.
08:15.157 --> 08:15.617
[SPEAKER_09]: Wait a minute.
08:15.697 --> 08:19.062
[SPEAKER_09]: All that nine dollars happens in the wealthy countries, right?
08:19.396 --> 08:22.981
[SPEAKER_02]: The poor countries that produce it only make a dollar.
08:23.502 --> 08:24.323
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, sort of.
08:24.663 --> 08:30.571
[SPEAKER_07]: We still have to pay the exporter, the taxes, the transportation, the dry, and wet mills out of that dollar.
08:30.591 --> 08:35.138
[SPEAKER_07]: But don't worry, all the rest of that goes to the farm.
08:35.158 --> 08:36.600
[SPEAKER_07]: Holy ****, that's just a few cents.
08:36.620 --> 08:41.026
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course the farmer still has to pay for the labor to maintain his fields all year round.
08:41.066 --> 08:43.629
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, buy all the things they need to run the farm?
08:43.710 --> 08:46.774
[SPEAKER_09]: Not to mention their food, their shelter, their education for their families.
08:46.794 --> 08:47.715
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this bulb.
08:48.539 --> 08:56.190
[SPEAKER_01]: Michelle's husband, who also just happens to be co-co-co-he in co-founder of one big island in the space with Michelle.
08:56.290 --> 09:01.217
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes on to say something that a lot of people tend to roll their eyes out.
09:01.898 --> 09:07.947
[SPEAKER_01]: And they hear it and they think, well, all right, well, that's nice, but where's the business case?
09:08.127 --> 09:14.817
[SPEAKER_08]: The kind of work we do might be considered a little do-goodery, and maybe even
09:15.168 --> 09:23.056
[SPEAKER_08]: charitable work, possibly like some of my confused what we're doing as philanthropic and it's not.
09:23.096 --> 09:25.859
[SPEAKER_08]: This is this is a complete capital model, right?
09:25.919 --> 09:39.333
[SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, the reason it's a capital model for us is what we are trying to do, this might even be considered selfish, is secure us applying to a coffee, because coffee is at risk.
09:39.353 --> 09:43.437
[SPEAKER_08]: And so we're trying to guarantee
09:44.041 --> 09:48.027
[SPEAKER_08]: We're trying to make sure that we can get that supply at a stable price.
09:48.327 --> 10:04.712
[SPEAKER_08]: And so when we started in 2018, we could see that because the climate change and because producers were walking out their farms, the production was going to level out, but because of population growth to fly or excuse me, demand was going to continue on, right?
10:05.353 --> 10:12.664
[SPEAKER_08]: So what were we going to do to guarantee a supply and stabilize the price, right?
10:13.471 --> 10:15.955
[SPEAKER_08]: or ensure that farmers could farm.
10:16.736 --> 10:30.599
[SPEAKER_08]: And so our solution was that direct trade model that we call farm direct, where we eliminate the middle people and push those inevitable savings down to the producers so that they can be economically viable.
10:30.619 --> 10:34.065
[SPEAKER_08]: So we can have a guaranteed supply at a stable price, right?
10:34.125 --> 10:39.394
[SPEAKER_08]: So what I want to say about it is it just makes good business sense
10:39.374 --> 10:47.747
[SPEAKER_08]: or the other way to look at that is if you're working on a capital model that is extractive, eventually that extraction will end.
10:48.669 --> 10:53.957
[SPEAKER_08]: It just will, you know, unfeathered capitalism is self-destructive.
10:54.658 --> 10:56.381
[SPEAKER_08]: Capitalism needs some boundaries.
10:56.481 --> 11:01.669
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm not talking about regulation, but they can be moral boundaries or they can be the boundaries that
11:01.970 --> 11:12.703
[SPEAKER_08]: say or admit that earth is finite and what we take from it, we need to make sure we replace or we'll be in trouble.
11:13.303 --> 11:17.208
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's our basic overall approach to business.
11:17.228 --> 11:19.110
[SPEAKER_08]: So there's a selfish side to it.
11:19.190 --> 11:20.151
[SPEAKER_08]: It is all that I'm saying.
11:20.171 --> 11:24.656
[SPEAKER_08]: It's certainly not due goodery and it's not it's not philanthropy.
11:24.897 --> 11:26.258
[SPEAKER_08]: We have our own agenda.
11:27.360 --> 11:29.462
[SPEAKER_08]: It's just one that
11:29.442 --> 11:37.633
[SPEAKER_08]: is people's centric, climate's centric, and community's centric.
11:37.653 --> 11:46.665
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess the next question is then what actually makes people feel empowered to stand up and fight and resist the system and try and transform it and try and change it?
11:47.326 --> 11:50.570
[SPEAKER_01]: Not in theory, but the harder thing is in practice.
11:50.810 --> 11:55.737
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that that feels really applicable to the conversation we had with Amelia Landers from Starbucks.
11:56.425 --> 11:58.370
[SPEAKER_06]: because you think about how you buy coffee.
11:58.410 --> 12:00.476
[SPEAKER_06]: It's an industry built around convenience.
12:00.516 --> 12:02.160
[SPEAKER_06]: So you don't have to think very hard.
12:02.641 --> 12:04.326
[SPEAKER_06]: You just kind of just go.
12:04.346 --> 12:12.848
[SPEAKER_06]: This is what Amelia is talking about is what happens when sustainability asks people to slow down or do something extra on those steps beyond just get the coffee and drink it.
12:12.828 --> 12:17.254
[SPEAKER_06]: And how quickly that breaks down, if it doesn't fit into how people already live their lives.
12:17.274 --> 12:23.802
[SPEAKER_03]: I think with any sustainability topic, it's a multi-pronged approach, it's many different ways.
12:24.363 --> 12:30.791
[SPEAKER_03]: First, you have to be where the customer is and deliver the best, most convenient experience that they want to have.
12:31.031 --> 12:38.481
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, for us, that looked like enabling a reusable cup in every order channel, if that's what you want.
12:38.461 --> 12:40.985
[SPEAKER_03]: but not forcing it on customers who don't want it.
12:41.206 --> 12:49.099
[SPEAKER_03]: We enabled a customer to order a beverage in the drive through or on mobile order and pay and use their personal cup, which was new this last year.
12:49.159 --> 13:02.402
[SPEAKER_03]: We had long honored a personal cup coming into the cafe 10 cents off 25 stars, but these highly convenience motivated on the go order channels of drive through and mobile order.
13:02.422 --> 13:03.904
[SPEAKER_03]: We just brought those online.
13:03.944 --> 13:04.485
[SPEAKER_03]: And that
13:05.377 --> 13:14.989
[SPEAKER_03]: That was for a small percentage of our customers who have been wanting to use their personal cut because for them, just as important as their coffee, it's the cup that's meaningful to them.
13:15.009 --> 13:18.053
[SPEAKER_03]: It starts their morning off right, it's comfort, it's whatever it is emotionally.
13:18.113 --> 13:21.798
[SPEAKER_03]: And so just enabling that as a foundation for those customers.
13:22.478 --> 13:28.566
[SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting, even though that's a small percentage of our occasion of people using personal cups,
13:28.546 --> 13:31.651
[SPEAKER_03]: is a very passionate percent of our customer base.
13:31.912 --> 13:46.156
[SPEAKER_03]: And when we unlocked that for customers that announcement really garnered by far and away more social media engagement than our product launches in that window of time, it was very well received.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, we met those customers where they were
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[SPEAKER_03]: for their coffee.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We operationalized it in a way that was very smooth and seamless and quick and in our timing requirements so that the convenience of everybody was taken into consideration.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, I guess that's the shift.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Effectively, people don't change because they're told to, but change obviously becomes a lot easier when convenience and I guess you can say conscience collide.
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[SPEAKER_06]: But even when systems are redesigned, change can still stall because in the end we're
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[SPEAKER_06]: and this came through again in our conversation with Jenny Morgan.
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[SPEAKER_12]: If you come to a conversation with curiosity and actually asking what the problems are and coming from a collaborative mindset, it unlocks so many opportunities and actually gets everybody on the same team, whereas the first version isolates and separates.
14:42.572 --> 14:52.806
[SPEAKER_06]: So basically, if shame shuts people down and judgment pushes them out, real change asks people to step up and into uncomfortable realities and just stay there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that actually brings to mind that conversation we have with Jennifer Mottless.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So Jennifer is the Chief Sustainability Officer of Philip Morris International.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that she spent the last decade trying to basically reinvent Philip Morris International from the inside out to imagine a world without cigarettes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I had my career as human rights lawyer working at the UN.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: for a cigarette company.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But then at the same time, I think that my entire drive and my entire life, my, what I, I was trying to do was to create change and positive impact.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I did post at the time, and I, and I did wonder like,
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[SPEAKER_00]: A is this for real and B will be able to do it that there are many things that we disagree with in life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's very easy to disagree from a distance, you know?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's very easy to say, oh no, not for me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This I don't like, boycott, protest, cancel, exclude, divest.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all good, but normally when you do that, the problem doesn't really go away.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It just doesn't, it just becomes somebody else's problem to solve.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of energy and a lot of courage, and I don't say it for me, I say it in general, to go into those places that make you so uncomfortable, that you need to go there to change the status quo.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But that sense of uncertainty and what to do with that, kept on coming up, same sense of powerlessness, and same sense of just being completely overwhelmed, and what to imagine.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So Kathy, she's the former Chief Communications Officer over at the Washington Post, now at McDonald's.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And she talked about it easy.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It's become for people to feel overwhelmed and shut down.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Many people in my network, surprising people who will say, I can't read the news anymore.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I'm too tired.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It just really upsets me.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's bad for my mental health.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And I can understand that, too, a certain extent, but I also think that's incredibly privileged.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's a privileged perspective that I can't sign up for, because if you check out and you're staying not active, you're accepting the way things are.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And I really believe that at the local level is like, even if you can't control again
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[SPEAKER_05]: at the local level, you can be involved in your own community.
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[SPEAKER_05]: That's also threatening to democracy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So when people feel overwhelmed instead of empowered, the work doesn't stop.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it just goes quiet, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: It gets hushed up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Greenhushing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So greenhushing is actually a byproduct of people feeling disempowered and stuck because they don't really know what to do.
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[SPEAKER_06]: End of raid.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and afraid of doing the wrong thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Kathy names people.
17:37.029 --> 17:39.053
[SPEAKER_01]: She talked about people that were checking out.
17:39.494 --> 17:47.952
[SPEAKER_01]: And thinking about our next guest, Hillary, what was interesting about her and her perspective, having worked for many years on Gillette and FNG.
17:48.421 --> 17:58.414
[SPEAKER_01]: and then moving into a company called divert, which is about effectively recycling, redistributing food waste, turning into energy.
17:58.494 --> 17:59.495
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm turning into energy.
17:59.515 --> 18:11.610
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really uplifting to listen to how her think about how they've built a system to redirect food waste, to not only make sure that the food they get.
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[SPEAKER_01]: thrown off supermarket shelters actually redirected and redistributed people need it, but how waste food can actually become energy that can power our lives and create this circular system.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Well think about what that went into that food.
18:26.660 --> 18:43.791
[SPEAKER_04]: You had the farmers who grew it and they watered it and then they transported it and then somebody packaged it and then transported it in all those dollars and it said it's highest in best use once it gets to the store and then a third of it gets thrown away.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't realize how much food was going to waste.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think people do know.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And for me, it became this opportunity to let people know all those facts that you just said and try to find a solution that's going to fix that problem and help us waste less.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And keep more products being sold or repurposed in a way that people in need can eat them.
19:05.779 --> 19:12.850
[SPEAKER_01]: So lots of wisdom, lots of learnings, and maybe some reflections and lessons as we kind of start this year.
19:13.387 --> 19:18.752
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe ominously and start to kind of figure out what change looks like.
19:18.772 --> 19:23.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So lesson one I guess is that change doesn't stall because people don't care.
19:24.998 --> 19:33.086
[SPEAKER_01]: It stalls when systems aren't designed to support them and actually work against them and make them feel that that change is impossible.
19:34.767 --> 19:40.913
[SPEAKER_01]: And also when effort goes and a notice them people feel called out rather than called in.
19:41.770 --> 19:49.319
[SPEAKER_01]: and maybe when people start to lose faith that what they actually do has some value, has some meaning and really matters.
19:51.101 --> 20:06.059
[SPEAKER_01]: We heard how friction and so hushing can quietly shut things down, how shame pushes people out and doesn't invite people in and how feeling overwhelmed, turns positive energy and engagement into apathy and often in action.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But we also heard some
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[SPEAKER_01]: We also heard that progress doesn't just come from getting everything right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: As Yoda and Star Wars said, do or do not?
20:17.494 --> 20:19.557
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no try.
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[SPEAKER_06]: But that I think is an interesting connection about little things, because little things actually count.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Interesting thing what Yoda and I have in common.
20:31.474 --> 20:32.175
[SPEAKER_01]: About the same height.
20:32.195 --> 20:32.875
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
20:33.376 --> 20:37.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Global chains surprise.
20:37.795 --> 20:42.486
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know Bob, who's Michelle's wife, so I'm not Michelle's wife.
20:42.746 --> 20:46.976
[SPEAKER_06]: I think I might have a motivation problem.
20:47.016 --> 20:52.569
[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe like if we all had a little cream on our cup of coffee, every day, we could have a big better.
20:53.010 --> 20:55.054
[SPEAKER_06]: Bravo, bra!
20:56.558 --> 21:04.917
[SPEAKER_06]: Stay tuned for the next season, and in the meantime feel free to visit us at Grounded.world because it should be this hard, and it really doesn't have to be.
