Alexa, part 1
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[00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to inside the click your creator economy podcast. I'm Michelle. I'm Monica. And today we have a very special guest. We have Alexa here from charm lane we talk a lot about Instagram, the algorithm. She has a ton of expertise because she literally used to teach Instagram story school.
So it's a really fun conversation about authenticity, diversification, which we know is going to only happen more in 2024. Let's do it.
Alexa: I heard about this podcast on TikTok. I saw like a clip and I was like, wait, I'm looking for a podcast that covers exactly the creator economy, staying up to date with all the trends. And I listened to, I'm not even kidding, every episode. And I was like, who are these girls? And it was you!
And Michelle and I feel like we met probably like over a decade ago. Was it at SantaCon? [00:01:00] This is amazing. Like 2012. I don't
Monica: know. Yeah, how do we all know each other? Y'all met at mutual friends
Alexa: or? Yeah. Okay. Mutual friend that you went to college with, right? Yeah,
Michelle: Joe, who I have not talked to in forever.
Alexa: I just saw him. Really?
Michelle: Oh my gosh! bUt yeah, and it was in a totally different environment. Yeah.
Alexa: Lifetime. That's amazing. Wait, how did I get here? I feel like crazy. But no, I'm excited to chat with you guys today. I feel like I've learned so much from the podcast. I love all the different formats you guys do.
You do the educational one, then you do the deep dive episode. So I've been loving it. And I tell all my creator friends, you have to podcast. It's so informative. Yay. Oh, that makes me so happy to
Monica: hear. Sometimes you, you know, sometimes you create and sorry, my dog is, usually my dogs go to daycare on recording days, but they're going, I'm going to DC.
Um, Later this week, and so I'm just sending them to boarding, but I think A lot of [00:02:00] times you create content and sometimes you don't really get the full effect of how it's landing with people you get the social media affirmation, right? You get views, things like that, but sometimes you don't really know the depth of it, and I would even be curious for you You post this content, you create all the work to do it and you don't necessarily hear from one of your followers the piece of like, oh my gosh, you have to go follow Alexa.
She has like the best ideas,
Alexa: all of that. Right, right. And that's what I feel like hard about being a creator. But at least with charm lane. What I've done is I've really tried to focus and curate like every single follower is A follower that I want more followers like them, right?
So hyper curating who I want in this community and I think when I started this it was more about Figuring out like who am I talking to creating like an archetype in my head so I actually get a lot of people messaging me being like, [00:03:00] oh my god I love that post you just did and that's always really reassuring.
It's like wait. Okay, you like this? That's good but I'm really focused on the insights and the analytics like everything I do. It's because data told me to do it Or some sort of like SEO trend keyword that I found so that's why I love your podcast because I feel like you guys Lean more on the data than on the fluff.
Yeah, I think and that's why I've been learning so yeah I think there's a lot
Monica: out there. That's Understand your persona understand the story you want to tell but then they don't really tell you what to do with it Once you create the content,
Alexa: right exactly and I feel like I have such a competitive Advantage, I think And I never knew like, I'm going to be a content creator.
I worked at Facebook for the last seven years. If you told me when I was going out maternity leave seven months ago that this would be my full time job, I'd be like, that's weird. What? But I I don't know, in April I just had this moment where I was like, I've been teaching creator.
So I taught Instagram story school at Facebook and Instagram for probably five of my seven [00:04:00] years there. And then manage a lot of different programs and different teams and events and. Was working one on one with creators and then I was on maternity leave in April and realized I'm like, you know what?
I'm so bored. I have this like little newborn. He sleeps a lot and he's my second I was like, let me just take everything that I've been teaching for so long and try to apply it to something myself Just for fun within a month. I was like wait, I can make this my job and then took a leave of faith I left it like two months ago and didn't go back up to maternity leave And I'm so glad that I did because I think it's about a mindset.
And I feel like you guys talked about this on an earlier episode. I was spending hours and so much of my time working for someone else, like, when I could have been working for myself. And it's easier said than done. I just was able to figure out how to monetize something I'm passionate about and to come up with a long term plan for it.
So You can't just be like, I'm gonna be an influencer, and then like tomorrow quit your job, don't do [00:05:00] that. But, if you come up with a pragmatic plan, it's totally feasible,
Michelle: that's also interesting, though, that you used to coach Instagram school because you could argue that you have years of really understanding things. It isn't like you did it on a whim. You have a bunch of people's data to look at, and you've taught it a ton of times.
So you just like Cinderella, glass slipper fit, and you just went with it.
Alexa: And I never I actually, full transparency, I was a YouTuber for a couple years before ever working at Facebook and Instagram. So I always loved creating and always wanted that spin on things, but I just thought working meant having a nine to five and working for a big corporate company.
And I didn't even realize during my time at Facebook that I was getting the exact experience I needed to Go out on my own and make my own [00:06:00] path for myself Because to your point which like I was learning what was working for people What wasn't working for people and then honestly like the ins and outs of the algorithm And I know people have a lot of a big love hate relationship with it right now.
I'm probably on like the algorithm um, but it's just like the seasonality and time of year for sure, but I Have all of that knowledge, helping me know when to go all in, when to back out a little bit. And also, I think 2024, my only, like I have a word for every year, it's diversification. If you're an influencer, which also I don't like that word, but if you are, and you're I can't with it.
It's such a weird word, but I feel like influencers were born on Instagram, right? Like they weren't really born anywhere else and when you're an influencer, right? I think if you're hanging your hat just building a business on the affiliate income you're making on your Instagram stories, I think that's the scariest thing you could possibly do.[00:07:00]
So that's why for 2024 I'm really focused on diversification. So I wouldn't even call myself like a, an Instagrammer. I'm more of a blogger. Like the time I spend is more on my own platform and building that out because I own it. And honestly, like I like writing and spending my time there. Instagram is just like a fun community that I like.
Built and where I got started. It was like my springboard to really figuring out what I want to do with that. So a lot of my creator friends too, we talk about this a lot. It's you can not have all of your eggs in the Instagram basket, but I feel like that's the most traditional understanding of someone who calls himself an influencer.
It's because they have probably like some sort of presence on Instagram. And I think there's so many better tools now that people can lean into. TikTok I think is great. Tomorrow you can have a hundred thousand followers on TikTok. You never know. Whereas Instagram, it's really hard to build that community.
And also like, I know you guys have an episode on Flip, right? It's so cool. Oh my gosh, but
Michelle: I have a bone to [00:08:00] pick with them. Which I am not happy about. And I was like, texting Monica when this was happening. I ordered four things. It was probably 60 plus dollars cause you get a ton of discounts and they sent me a package with a single eyebrow brush and that is it.
It wasn't even anything that I ordered. And their response to me is can you initiate the return and then return this item? And then. We can like you can repurchase things and we'll send you again and I'm like, uh, No
Alexa: You're essentially
Monica: Like A probably six dollar eyebrow brush.
That's insane. It's just been like keep it and We'll make sure that your other
Alexa: stuff gets to
Michelle: you. Yeah. Anyway, I'm a little lukewarm on [00:09:00] them right now. But, have you started using Flip?
Alexa: I use it as a consumer. But I don't want to post on it. But I think that's the way of the future.
Because even right now with TikTok Shop having its moment, Whenever I go on TikTok, I don't even realize, but I'm just being sold to every TikTok video. And I used to love the Suzie story times on TikTok. I didn't want to be sold these compression leggings, but I feel like that's what's happening to TikTok, and I'm hoping that maybe goes over to a platform like flip or maybe like within tik tok where you can just go To the shop section.
I don't really necessarily want to be like sold to everything. I
Monica: agree and I feel like I've talked about this in the past, but I think that kills a lot of creativity because People feel pressured to only talk about things that are sellable rather than maybe something that is a part of their day to day life or maybe they actually are here to create content in so many other [00:10:00] ways, but feel like they have to throw in a perfume just because they're like I have to find something to sell, and it takes a lot of the creativity and just freedom because people feel pressure to sell something all the time because they're like, if I'm going to do this, Put all this effort.
I have to make money. I have to make it work And so now all of a sudden it's almost like they've overcompensated And just gone way too deep on the selling then at the same time what where's that line because the platform is pushing Selling, I think that line is a really
Alexa: interesting place.
Totally. And I feel that as a viewer, because I'm not a creator on Tik TOK, but I opened the app and I'm like, Oh my God, okay here we go again. There are those there's that magic, like bra again, that everyone's selling. Like I keep seeing the same things. And now I'm even on the side of Tik TOK where it's like, how does that TikTok shop?
I'm like, I know, I don't want to know how to set up a TikTok shop. I'm good. Thank you.[00:11:00] But I feel like we're on the precipice of everything changing. Oh, I agree. And I almost feel like I, I got in at a good time, almost too late, but there's so much runway ahead for this whole entire industry, I think.
There's a lot that's going to happen. And even just in the past two weeks, I feel like everything has changed.
Monica: And even beyond social, I feel like you're starting to see it when it comes to these affiliate platforms. And, creators used to be all in on LTK that was their number one thing.
And now you see creators diversifying, using the different platforms. And I feel like this is only the beginning. And whatever is to come in the future. I think all these platforms are going to be creating something that we don't even know exists yet out of necessity to be like, okay, how do we make sure that we don't lose in this diversification process because creators are only gaining by diversifying, right?
Whereas these individual platforms, they are taking hits because [00:12:00] nothing changes from the creator side. Like a link is a link that converts and maybe the commission rate is higher here or there, but the people really getting the hit are the platforms. So they're going to have to innovate.
Alexa: They have to.
And I feel like right now, this is my POV as a creator. I feel like we're in the era of blockbusters. Yes. There's Howl, there's LTK, there's Collective Voice, which I love the data on Collective Voice. There's ShopMy, there's so many platforms. And also like Target Creators, Walmart Creators, and Amazon Influencer Program.
I need someone to come in and be Netflix, you know? Like, who's gonna be my Netflix? And is that gonna be the social platform? Is that going to be,, everyone just going out and creating their own platforms? Or are the affiliates going to evolve with the creators, right? And I feel like I, I heard somewhere that this, the Company that backs all the affiliate platforms, like they've been around forever.
Oh, like 20 years. You guys were talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, should they do something? I'm like, [00:13:00] cause for me as a creator, and I talk about this a lot with my friends, it's like, okay, today I'm going to share a target link. Should I do it through Howl, should I do it through my new target storefront?
Like what has more commission? Do I need to meet any sort of goals for one of the platforms I'm on? Like it's like a whole song and dance of figuring out. When to share and I personally think LTK is a great platform because It's the only one with a consumer based app. I personally think they need, I think they need to sell it more though, because I'm training my audience to be like, here's how you use my LTK, right?
And shop my LTK, here's a link to it. There's a lot of on the creator to educate, but I imagine a world where are circumventing Instagram or whoever they're getting my LTK, just going to LTK, that would cut out like a lot. And I think contextual shopping, Is really important and if people just went to ltk instead of going to instagram, they're already more primed They're like the shopping mindset and even when I think of my behaviors As a consumer I needed [00:14:00] to wedding a couple months ago.
I'm like, okay. I need a dress like the newly postpartum like nothing really fits me I went I didn't go on instagram and look for creators that I like their style I went on ltk and I searched wedding guest dresses and i'm like this would be nice if everyone just did this Because also I like how when there's an affiliate platform that someone can have a storefront on or an LTK shop, someone's there because they want to shop.
They're not there because they were looking at pictures of their niece's birthday party and then also like got intrigued by something you shared. They're there because they're like, I need to buy something. Conversion skyrockets. And it just feels less, exactly. It feels less fake. It feels more authentic.
What's wild
Monica: to me about this, because I've. Spoken to people at different platforms outside of LTK and all of them are so resistant to creating a consumer facing app. They're all like we don't want to be LTK or that's really usually the hat that they want to hang [00:15:00] on is that they don't want to be LTK.
But I'm like, there's just as much power in owning the consumer part of the funnel as owning the creator part of the funnel, because then you basically own the entire funnel. And it's from a business perspective, it's like, why would you not want skin in the game on the consumer piece? Wild how these platforms and I've spoken to two really big ones.
And they're just like, we will never, it's wild because I feel like that's the secret sauce of LTK.
Michelle: In Alexa, you even said it like when people open the app, they want to shop. So I think that that's why all the platforms that don't have their own platform they would feel diversification more.
Because if you happen to not use them in your story where you've pre primed people to click and if it's just like, [00:16:00] oh, nice's birthday party and by the way, here's my cute shoes, but here's All the kids they're going to pass that over and then that platform is not going to get anything.
But it is, LTK is just like synonymous with the app, which is just such a bummer for other platforms.
Monica: But it's like other platforms could make the choice to keep up create their own spin on it. It doesn't have to be copy paste, but it's just because Instagram existed, didn't mean that TikTok would never exist.
I feel like it's such a limited mindset for these tech companies to decide, Oh,
Alexa: We
Monica: already lost.
Alexa: So
Michelle: actually question, Alexa diversification. I know we talk about that all the time. Like you're on trend.
Alexa: How do
Michelle: you think that next year? And you already listed a lot of the platforms, right?
Target creator, LTK, collective voice, Howl, if you [00:17:00] decide to use impact how would you manage all of that? Because in that's. One thing that I think that some of the companies and creators, like you can benefit, but then more work is put on you to manage all of that. So it's like, yes, the monetary benefit may be worth there, but if it's going to take more of your time, like, how do you think you'll approach
Alexa: that?
I think for me personally, it's two things. One, it's like, where do I like spending my time and where do I see the most like ROI on my time? If I'm creating content that I like to create, it's just going to land better because it's more authentic. And people are like, okay, shouldn't just throw this together because she had to put a post up.
It's like, oh, this was well thought out. And it's made for me, like the person I'm trying to target. And if I like it. I know they're gonna like it. Like There's just more love behind it. So I think about my creation process as okay, are they gonna like this? Good. [00:18:00] I like creating. It makes me feel good.
There's a lot of people who there's like a specific format of it real and everyone has to make that real to get followers. It's like that's not fueling me. I'm not gonna spend my time doing that. Cause I know it's not going to convert if it's like not feeling me. It's like the cycle, right?
The second way I think about it is every piece of content that I make, I, it's like a mindset. I think of it as like my employee. I put it to work for me. If it's on my Instagram feed, I'm putting it on Pinterest. I'm putting it on my website. I'm including it in my email newsletter. I'm popping it on my LTK shop.
I'm putting it in my Amazon storefront. Like I'm putting it as many things as places. As possible because I'm just like, I'm a one woman show over here and I don't have this big team. So I'm just trying to work smarter, not harder with what I can produce. And I know we were talking about this.
There's so many different platforms, but if I could link something on LTK and it's all Amazon things, I can also put in my Amazon storefront and I can also put it in my tap to shop with collective voice. Like why wouldn't I do that? Because. [00:19:00] In the consumer journey, if they happen to land in my Amazon storefront, but originally my intention was only sharing it to LTK, they're in Amazon ready to shop, like they're not going to go all the way back to my LTK.
So I just try to make it as easy as possible and make it as easy as possible on myself to get my content out there. If I'm taking the time and effort. To create something that I loved creating and I know my ideal audience likes, I'm going to make sure it's everywhere it needs to be you can't be everything to everyone.
And there's so many different platforms. The only currency is time is how I look at it. And if I can just So I'm going to try to maximize my time spent and really focus on ROI in everything I do. I feel like that's how I was able to go full time with this because that's been my philosophy from the beginning.
It's like, how can I just be as smart and organized as possible? And a lot of my followers will even message me and they're like, thank you so much for making it easy to shop. Sometimes I see things and I have to go down a [00:20:00] rabbit hole to find it. That's also like zooming out diversification.
Like I want it everywhere I don't want to just be affiliated with one platform. I want to train my shoppers to know Okay I can go read a blog post, but also I know if I'm on the email list I'll get exclusive content, right? It's all about just education and just working as smart as you can.
And then, eventually I know people who, they do hire out help. They have VAs and they have a team. With me, though, I'm like, I enjoy, it's hard to figure out what I want to outsource because I really like everything that I get to do.
Monica: On a more granular level, About this, what do you prioritize when it comes to actually creating the link?
So let's say you have something where you could either link it straight to that retailer's website or to a bigger Brand like let's say nordstrom Do you go based off commission rate or do you go based off of the store that? You think your audience is more likely to [00:21:00] shop at or does that? Thought process even cross your mind at all when trying to decide where to create the
Alexa: links for It does cross my mind specifically because Howl, one of the reasons why I love using Howl is because they have dynamic linking.
So they know where my consumer is more likely to check out. So I can just find a product and be like, okay, I'm going to share this, Charlotte Tilbury highlighter. And I can just use my Howl dynamic link. Because I know they're gonna figure out on the back end, like, where to send that person that's clicking the link.
And I feel like there's some sort of secret sauce there that I think Every other platform needs to go that route. But when I think of, and I think it's genius, I love working with Howl. Actually, really fast on
Michelle: that. Do you ever get feedback from your followers?
Or I guess my big concern with that is [00:22:00] You would potentially set an expectation that they would be going somewhere and then in reality, they're driven to a different retailer I guess if you don't do that and you just more so share the highlighter as opposed to being like You can get this at Ulta or whatever then there wouldn't be that expectation to break But have you ever gotten feedback from one of your?
Followers on, like they weren't directed where they were expecting to go.
Alexa: That's a really good question. The only thing that I think has happened is I'm like such a rule follower. Like I know you cannot send a direct link to Amazon no, you can't do that. So sometimes people will message me and be like, can you share, can you send me the link for that?
Amazon tray that you shared the other day. And it's like, I want to make it as easy as possible for them, but I'm not breaking the rules ever. So I'm like, okay here's the link on my LTK shop to that tray. People are like, oh, okay. But I, and sometimes, and they're like, why did you send me to LTK?
And I'll be [00:23:00] like I know I don't want to share a direct link, I just follow the rules. And they're like, oh, I didn't even know that was a thing. Like, Don't worry about it as long as you have your tray. Good luck. Thank you for asking. But with Howl dynamic linking, let's say if it's like an Ulta sale, I'm going to turn off dynamic linking because if let's say I'm doing like a post or a story series and it's like, here are my favorite pics sale.
If I'm sharing my favorite Ulta sale and someone gets sent to buy that product on Nordstrom, they're gonna be like, what? What's going on? I want to use the coupon code for the Ulta sale. So I'll try to be intentional and be like, okay, I'm turning off dynamic linking for those because the content pillar is the sale that's going on with that specific retailer versus the product in general.
But usually I just try to. Mix up the products and make it less focused on the actual retailer of the product unless it's like my favorite J. Crew picks I can't link out J. Crew anywhere else but J. Crew. Yep. On
Monica: the note of Amazon, have you played around with URL
Alexa: Genius? I was on URL Genius for a little bit, but now I'm [00:24:00] on JotURL.
I like the ease of deep linking. What I will say. Is I've noticed and I don't know I feel like all the platforms are probably feeling this like the affiliate networks story views have dramatically decreased since October, right? Have you guys talked about meta AI? No. Yeah, no, we haven't.
Okay, it's my best friend. Basically, you can talk to the Instagram algorithm. So obviously like, I feel like I. Know the algorithm a little bit better than like the average person because I worked there for seven years But they just came out with this thing called meta ai and In instagram, you can go to your messages You go to create a new message and you can chat with meta ai And you can ask it anything you want.
You can be like, hi, I tried this other day I'm like, I have x number of followers. I want 40 percent story viewership Give me the exact blueprint I need to follow To hit that boom, automated response. I followed it to a [00:25:00] T I got my 40 percent viewership. Like it will tell you what you need.
If you ask it very direct questions, it'll like, it's literally like talking to the algorithm. So I asked it, I'm like, can you tell me about the October 20, 23 algorithm updates to Instagram? And it responded and it was like, we prioritized D prioritizing accounts that share too many links. And I'm like, that's probably why.
A lot of accounts were saying, okay, mid October, right around after Prime Day, um, Prime Big Day deals ended, like my story views dropped. And it's probably because everything you do on Instagram is a data point. So that's why when I was starting my account, I was really intentional with everything I did.
Every word I entered into my bio, every comment I left, every follow, every interaction. Because they have data points on how many links people have been sharing in their stories and how much, at the end of the day, traffic you're driving out of Instagram, right? With deep linking, every single time I put a deep link in, I'm kicking [00:26:00] someone out of the Instagram in app browser, I think that's a strike against me.
And I even asked my new bestie, my robot bestie, Meta AI, and it was like, yes, we are doing that. I'm like, I knew it! I think Yes, deep linking is amazing because the conversions are so much higher, but if Instagram is your sole platform, I would be really intentional with how many links you're sharing because it, at the end of the day, I have whatever number of followers I have.
I could, there can be an account. I have friends with a million followers and we get the same story views at the end of the day. So we have the same reach. Maybe it's because of every single data point Instagram has and how it's treating your account based on how many eyeballs you're going to keep in the app specifically.
I think that's the only thing. Instagram cares about is if you're creating content that makes people spend time in the app, it's going to push out your content. thAt's exactly what happened with Facebook in the
Michelle: groups. One thing I totally want to try [00:27:00] talking to the internet bestie, but this goes back
Alexa: to
Michelle: Monica in one of the first episodes.
That we had which oh my gosh embarrassing if we go back and listen to those but you made a comment that Everything is in front of you like they're sharing stuff
Monica: what I will die on this hill that the algorithm isn't trying to kill your business like I go in I just I get really frustrated when people hang their hats on that They're never going to be able to meet their potential because they're always at battle with the algorithm and I'm like the algorithm wants you to succeed because if everyone created things that were so bad that no one stayed on the app, there would be no app.
So why would the algorithm ever want to do that, and I think it's really easy and this is where mindset comes in. It's really easy to want to blame something on [00:28:00] an external. Force that you can't explain right like you can't explain the algorithm So it's an easy target because whoever you complain about the algorithm to they can't really vouch for it either like most people can't be like actually this is why you're wrong So it's like such an easy target, but I just, I've never bought into it that your content creation business has to be a constant battle with the algorithm.
Alexa: Correct. And I feel like a lot of people use it as their scapegoat. The algorithm hates me. If I ever see any sort of Dip or shift I zoom out because to your point Instagram wants eyeballs and instagram like they want people engaged in the platform Zoom out even more It's like they make money through ads.
So they want content on the platform so they can put an ad in between Monica's post and my post that creates an ad space for them, right? [00:29:00] Like they want to encourage creation and fresh new ideas and people coming back to the platform because at the end of the day, they want to sell ad space. And that's honestly my number one gripe with Instagram.
When I was a YouTuber, I got money via AdSense, right? There maybe is a future where maybe Instagram is doing ad revenue sharing with creators to help compensate creators, because at the end of the day I've never received a check from Instagram for my account, ever. It's because of the platform I've built where brands want to work with me or I can use it to share links to products that I can affiliate a commission on, but people are like, oh my god, Instagram is trying to kill my business.
It's really not, to your point, it's just maybe suppressing your reach because you're driving a lot of traffic outside. Or maybe your content isn't hitting as well as it used to, maybe you changed something, maybe you yourself aren't spending the amount of time that you did before. What I will say is, if [00:30:00] you give to Instagram, You can't take away.
So let's say if you're sticking to a consistent posting schedule and One week you go on vacation people are always like, oh my gosh I came back to my beach vacation and i've zero story views. I have no likes. I have no comments It's because instagram is probably like counting on you is how I think of it for that ad space and then you just let it down and it's gonna Same thing if you're spending a thousand dollars on advertising and you just stop spending on ads, it's going to be a little shocked.
So how I think about my consistency level is what can I personally commit to as a creator? Because I never want to get to a place where I'm posting two reels a day and one post a day. And then one day I'm burned out. I can't do that anymore because. Instagram will slap your wrist, I think, if you do that.
And that's probably why the algorithm is hating us, because maybe it's just you weren't as consistent as you used to be, or your content's changed, or [00:31:00] people are just swiping away, or you're kicking people out of the app too much, and they don't Like, that's a data point that someone left the app when they engage with your content.
That's not good. So every link you share has to be, like, the best link ever. And I think you mentioned it. I think it was today's episode, Monica. You were like, everyone's trying to sell a Stanley Cup and a belt bag. Yeah. Let's not share that anymore. Because people aren't going to click that link anymore.
They already have their belt bag and their Stanley mug. And know
Monica: where to find it. They know where, they can go to lululemon.
Alexa: com. That's right. Exactly. So I think of everything I share as a premium space where I'm not going to squander the opportunity because the, especially right now, like everyone's a creator.
Every brand is trying to wrap up Q4. There's just so much content right now. Same amount of eyeballs, if not less eyeballs than there were in 2020 when we were all glued to our phones. So it's just increased competition, increased amount of content, more [00:32:00] creators, and then the same amount of people looking at Instagram.
So it's going to feel like reach has definitely dropped since the past 18 months or even last year. That's a
Michelle: really good point with the, overall platform size because if you have all the same amount of people, but then you have more creators the overall, I guess like circle isn't getting any bigger.
So then you need to pay more attention to data and how I was going to say when you were like, Oh um, the algorithm is your friend. And it gets mad at you. I'm like, Oh my gosh, you can totally tell you used to
Alexa: Facebook, but it's, Oh, think about it. Cause it's not like. there's this
Michelle: tension, it's like you need to understand what its goals are, and then you both raise each other up.
Alexa: Yes, exactly. And in story school, what I would teach is Instagram is telling you exactly what it wants from you. If you're a [00:33:00] creator account, if you're a business account, you just go into your professional dashboard. Like when I first started doing this, I was like, okay, I'm going to try reels. I'm going to try posts and try stories.
I'm going to see what has the most engagement and most reach. And then hopefully it's something that like I like to do because then I can spend my time there more. And then it's like a snowball effect, like going in a good direction. So that's what I did. I spent like the first 60 days. I'm like, I'm going to try out different.
Types of content and then see what works based on the insights I was surprised to see that like my posts get six times the amount of reach as my reels And I think that's just because reels in general in the past two years Like everyone knows reels is the way to grow on instagram. So everyone's making a reel Maybe right now, if reels aren't slapping for you, you have to pivot to a carousel post or a static deep post or, doing a live.
Maybe that's how you're going to get more engagement, but the answers are in your professional dashboard. It's telling you here's what we want to see more of because this is how your reach was so much more than this other form of content. [00:34:00] So that's why I think Instagram's good because it gives you that data.
But then also at the end of the day. You can lose your Instagram account. So I think it's really important to have a platform that you own and you're not just Doing everything based on having one social media account There was even a post today that I saw on Facebook like this blogger group I'm in someone lost their Instagram account and I actually lost my account for a full week, and I'm pretty confident I would never have gotten it back if I wasn't like a current employee at the time Yeah,
Monica: when I was at LTK when I worked there, maybe like maybe once or twice a year It didn't happen super often, but one of our top creators Instagram accounts would get shut down and it was literally all hands on deck asking every single employee Does anyone know one person at facebook because creators were looking to us at ltk, you know as the experts to be able to Support them through something as difficult, but it was like, okay, I think so and so [00:35:00] two years ago started working at Instagram.
Is anyone still friends with her? And it really was all hands on deck. We just need to find a human.
Alexa: Someone. A hundred percent. Because I feel like that. And even working there, I probably helped a hundred people get their accounts back. I was always like, hi, my, my boyfriend's cousin's account got shut down.
Can you like put in the special form that you can put in? otHerwise I think it's a black hole. And even if you're meta verified, that's not like account insurance of you're never going to get shut down. Sometimes it's really it's a mistake.
Mine was, like, so random. It was just too much traffic on one post. And they're like, no, this must be spam. I'm like, I wish they would shut down the actual spammers. Yeah. Okay, fine. But it is really hard. And honestly If you have a creator and you're an LTK and they're bringing in a certain number of revenue And the only way they're driving that is through their instagram Like of course you're like, how can we help them?
And that's why I think all the platforms right now probably are even feeling [00:36:00] the dip in story views since the october algorithm update because a lot of people just sell on their stories and not so much in feed or reels and now that the reach is decreasing i'm sure at the end of the day The affiliate networks are feeling that too.
You know what's funny is
Michelle: they gave the ability to link out in stories. And it's just funny how things evolve, because they gave the ability to easily link out. So then people did it, and there were probably like, too many people are linking out. So now we gotta
Alexa: Shift back. Yep. 100%. And I remember when you had to have 10, 000 followers to swipe up.
But now everyone can link out. And I even asked my robot Bestie, I'm like, how many links in 24 hours? you suppress an account's reach. It said max two. It'll give you answers. It'll be like, no more than one to two and 24 hours. They're like, if you share more than three, your [00:37:00] reach might be suppressed.
So it is very clear. And to me, at least I'm like, okay, they don't want me driving traffic out of Instagram. So a lot of my creator friends are like, oh my God, I am having a really bad month revenue wise. It's because My reach is really down I don't think we should be Hanging our hat on one specific medium within one specific platform to make our income.
That's really scary to me And that's why
Monica: i'm more on one of the creators that i'm thinking of Who lost their account for I think she was it ended up being two weeks But because she had such high traffic to her blog She was able to still go live with all her sponsor posts. She didn't have to put any campaigns on hold she had an email list as well where she emailed everyone on her list, hey, this is what's going on.
So she had really set herself up for best case scenario if something like that happens. And, It proved to work and then she was able, once it was back, she was able to send an email [00:38:00] to her email list put up a thing on her blog, like all the different things. And she is like the perfect case study of she set herself up for success in case X, Y, Z
Alexa: happened, right?
I think your only insurance policy is your website and your email list because even trends, what if Gen Z doesn't want to go on Instagram in five years? They're like, Oh, it's toxic. I don't want to go on it. Then what are you going to do if you have this massive following on one platform?
That's not future proofing your business.
Stay tuned. Part two of our conversation with Alexa will be released next week.
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[00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to inside the click your creator economy podcast. I'm Michelle. I'm Monica. And today we have a very special guest. We have Alexa here from charm lane we talk a lot about Instagram, the algorithm. She has a ton of expertise because she literally used to teach Instagram story school.
So it's a really fun conversation about authenticity, diversification, which we know is going to only happen more in 2024. Let's do it.
Alexa: I heard about this podcast on TikTok. I saw like a clip and I was like, wait, I'm looking for a podcast that covers exactly the creator economy, staying up to date with all the trends. And I listened to, I'm not even kidding, every episode. And I was like, who are these girls? And it was you!
And Michelle and I feel like we met probably like over a decade ago. Was it at SantaCon? [00:01:00] This is amazing. Like 2012. I don't
Monica: know. Yeah, how do we all know each other? Y'all met at mutual friends
Alexa: or? Yeah. Okay. Mutual friend that you went to college with, right? Yeah,
Michelle: Joe, who I have not talked to in forever.
Alexa: I just saw him. Really?
Michelle: Oh my gosh! bUt yeah, and it was in a totally different environment. Yeah.
Alexa: Lifetime. That's amazing. Wait, how did I get here? I feel like crazy. But no, I'm excited to chat with you guys today. I feel like I've learned so much from the podcast. I love all the different formats you guys do.
You do the educational one, then you do the deep dive episode. So I've been loving it. And I tell all my creator friends, you have to podcast. It's so informative. Yay. Oh, that makes me so happy to
Monica: hear. Sometimes you, you know, sometimes you create and sorry, my dog is, usually my dogs go to daycare on recording days, but they're going, I'm going to DC.
Um, Later this week, and so I'm just sending them to boarding, but I think A lot of [00:02:00] times you create content and sometimes you don't really get the full effect of how it's landing with people you get the social media affirmation, right? You get views, things like that, but sometimes you don't really know the depth of it, and I would even be curious for you You post this content, you create all the work to do it and you don't necessarily hear from one of your followers the piece of like, oh my gosh, you have to go follow Alexa.
She has like the best ideas,
Alexa: all of that. Right, right. And that's what I feel like hard about being a creator. But at least with charm lane. What I've done is I've really tried to focus and curate like every single follower is A follower that I want more followers like them, right?
So hyper curating who I want in this community and I think when I started this it was more about Figuring out like who am I talking to creating like an archetype in my head so I actually get a lot of people messaging me being like, [00:03:00] oh my god I love that post you just did and that's always really reassuring.
It's like wait. Okay, you like this? That's good but I'm really focused on the insights and the analytics like everything I do. It's because data told me to do it Or some sort of like SEO trend keyword that I found so that's why I love your podcast because I feel like you guys Lean more on the data than on the fluff.
Yeah, I think and that's why I've been learning so yeah I think there's a lot
Monica: out there. That's Understand your persona understand the story you want to tell but then they don't really tell you what to do with it Once you create the content,
Alexa: right exactly and I feel like I have such a competitive Advantage, I think And I never knew like, I'm going to be a content creator.
I worked at Facebook for the last seven years. If you told me when I was going out maternity leave seven months ago that this would be my full time job, I'd be like, that's weird. What? But I I don't know, in April I just had this moment where I was like, I've been teaching creator.
So I taught Instagram story school at Facebook and Instagram for probably five of my seven [00:04:00] years there. And then manage a lot of different programs and different teams and events and. Was working one on one with creators and then I was on maternity leave in April and realized I'm like, you know what?
I'm so bored. I have this like little newborn. He sleeps a lot and he's my second I was like, let me just take everything that I've been teaching for so long and try to apply it to something myself Just for fun within a month. I was like wait, I can make this my job and then took a leave of faith I left it like two months ago and didn't go back up to maternity leave And I'm so glad that I did because I think it's about a mindset.
And I feel like you guys talked about this on an earlier episode. I was spending hours and so much of my time working for someone else, like, when I could have been working for myself. And it's easier said than done. I just was able to figure out how to monetize something I'm passionate about and to come up with a long term plan for it.
So You can't just be like, I'm gonna be an influencer, and then like tomorrow quit your job, don't do [00:05:00] that. But, if you come up with a pragmatic plan, it's totally feasible,
Michelle: that's also interesting, though, that you used to coach Instagram school because you could argue that you have years of really understanding things. It isn't like you did it on a whim. You have a bunch of people's data to look at, and you've taught it a ton of times.
So you just like Cinderella, glass slipper fit, and you just went with it.
Alexa: And I never I actually, full transparency, I was a YouTuber for a couple years before ever working at Facebook and Instagram. So I always loved creating and always wanted that spin on things, but I just thought working meant having a nine to five and working for a big corporate company.
And I didn't even realize during my time at Facebook that I was getting the exact experience I needed to Go out on my own and make my own [00:06:00] path for myself Because to your point which like I was learning what was working for people What wasn't working for people and then honestly like the ins and outs of the algorithm And I know people have a lot of a big love hate relationship with it right now.
I'm probably on like the algorithm um, but it's just like the seasonality and time of year for sure, but I Have all of that knowledge, helping me know when to go all in, when to back out a little bit. And also, I think 2024, my only, like I have a word for every year, it's diversification. If you're an influencer, which also I don't like that word, but if you are, and you're I can't with it.
It's such a weird word, but I feel like influencers were born on Instagram, right? Like they weren't really born anywhere else and when you're an influencer, right? I think if you're hanging your hat just building a business on the affiliate income you're making on your Instagram stories, I think that's the scariest thing you could possibly do.[00:07:00]
So that's why for 2024 I'm really focused on diversification. So I wouldn't even call myself like a, an Instagrammer. I'm more of a blogger. Like the time I spend is more on my own platform and building that out because I own it. And honestly, like I like writing and spending my time there. Instagram is just like a fun community that I like.
Built and where I got started. It was like my springboard to really figuring out what I want to do with that. So a lot of my creator friends too, we talk about this a lot. It's you can not have all of your eggs in the Instagram basket, but I feel like that's the most traditional understanding of someone who calls himself an influencer.
It's because they have probably like some sort of presence on Instagram. And I think there's so many better tools now that people can lean into. TikTok I think is great. Tomorrow you can have a hundred thousand followers on TikTok. You never know. Whereas Instagram, it's really hard to build that community.
And also like, I know you guys have an episode on Flip, right? It's so cool. Oh my gosh, but
Michelle: I have a bone to [00:08:00] pick with them. Which I am not happy about. And I was like, texting Monica when this was happening. I ordered four things. It was probably 60 plus dollars cause you get a ton of discounts and they sent me a package with a single eyebrow brush and that is it.
It wasn't even anything that I ordered. And their response to me is can you initiate the return and then return this item? And then. We can like you can repurchase things and we'll send you again and I'm like, uh, No
Alexa: You're essentially
Monica: Like A probably six dollar eyebrow brush.
That's insane. It's just been like keep it and We'll make sure that your other
Alexa: stuff gets to
Michelle: you. Yeah. Anyway, I'm a little lukewarm on [00:09:00] them right now. But, have you started using Flip?
Alexa: I use it as a consumer. But I don't want to post on it. But I think that's the way of the future.
Because even right now with TikTok Shop having its moment, Whenever I go on TikTok, I don't even realize, but I'm just being sold to every TikTok video. And I used to love the Suzie story times on TikTok. I didn't want to be sold these compression leggings, but I feel like that's what's happening to TikTok, and I'm hoping that maybe goes over to a platform like flip or maybe like within tik tok where you can just go To the shop section.
I don't really necessarily want to be like sold to everything. I
Monica: agree and I feel like I've talked about this in the past, but I think that kills a lot of creativity because People feel pressured to only talk about things that are sellable rather than maybe something that is a part of their day to day life or maybe they actually are here to create content in so many other [00:10:00] ways, but feel like they have to throw in a perfume just because they're like I have to find something to sell, and it takes a lot of the creativity and just freedom because people feel pressure to sell something all the time because they're like, if I'm going to do this, Put all this effort.
I have to make money. I have to make it work And so now all of a sudden it's almost like they've overcompensated And just gone way too deep on the selling then at the same time what where's that line because the platform is pushing Selling, I think that line is a really
Alexa: interesting place.
Totally. And I feel that as a viewer, because I'm not a creator on Tik TOK, but I opened the app and I'm like, Oh my God, okay here we go again. There are those there's that magic, like bra again, that everyone's selling. Like I keep seeing the same things. And now I'm even on the side of Tik TOK where it's like, how does that TikTok shop?
I'm like, I know, I don't want to know how to set up a TikTok shop. I'm good. Thank you.[00:11:00] But I feel like we're on the precipice of everything changing. Oh, I agree. And I almost feel like I, I got in at a good time, almost too late, but there's so much runway ahead for this whole entire industry, I think.
There's a lot that's going to happen. And even just in the past two weeks, I feel like everything has changed.
Monica: And even beyond social, I feel like you're starting to see it when it comes to these affiliate platforms. And, creators used to be all in on LTK that was their number one thing.
And now you see creators diversifying, using the different platforms. And I feel like this is only the beginning. And whatever is to come in the future. I think all these platforms are going to be creating something that we don't even know exists yet out of necessity to be like, okay, how do we make sure that we don't lose in this diversification process because creators are only gaining by diversifying, right?
Whereas these individual platforms, they are taking hits because [00:12:00] nothing changes from the creator side. Like a link is a link that converts and maybe the commission rate is higher here or there, but the people really getting the hit are the platforms. So they're going to have to innovate.
Alexa: They have to.
And I feel like right now, this is my POV as a creator. I feel like we're in the era of blockbusters. Yes. There's Howl, there's LTK, there's Collective Voice, which I love the data on Collective Voice. There's ShopMy, there's so many platforms. And also like Target Creators, Walmart Creators, and Amazon Influencer Program.
I need someone to come in and be Netflix, you know? Like, who's gonna be my Netflix? And is that gonna be the social platform? Is that going to be,, everyone just going out and creating their own platforms? Or are the affiliates going to evolve with the creators, right? And I feel like I, I heard somewhere that this, the Company that backs all the affiliate platforms, like they've been around forever.
Oh, like 20 years. You guys were talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, should they do something? I'm like, [00:13:00] cause for me as a creator, and I talk about this a lot with my friends, it's like, okay, today I'm going to share a target link. Should I do it through Howl, should I do it through my new target storefront?
Like what has more commission? Do I need to meet any sort of goals for one of the platforms I'm on? Like it's like a whole song and dance of figuring out. When to share and I personally think LTK is a great platform because It's the only one with a consumer based app. I personally think they need, I think they need to sell it more though, because I'm training my audience to be like, here's how you use my LTK, right?
And shop my LTK, here's a link to it. There's a lot of on the creator to educate, but I imagine a world where are circumventing Instagram or whoever they're getting my LTK, just going to LTK, that would cut out like a lot. And I think contextual shopping, Is really important and if people just went to ltk instead of going to instagram, they're already more primed They're like the shopping mindset and even when I think of my behaviors As a consumer I needed [00:14:00] to wedding a couple months ago.
I'm like, okay. I need a dress like the newly postpartum like nothing really fits me I went I didn't go on instagram and look for creators that I like their style I went on ltk and I searched wedding guest dresses and i'm like this would be nice if everyone just did this Because also I like how when there's an affiliate platform that someone can have a storefront on or an LTK shop, someone's there because they want to shop.
They're not there because they were looking at pictures of their niece's birthday party and then also like got intrigued by something you shared. They're there because they're like, I need to buy something. Conversion skyrockets. And it just feels less, exactly. It feels less fake. It feels more authentic.
What's wild
Monica: to me about this, because I've. Spoken to people at different platforms outside of LTK and all of them are so resistant to creating a consumer facing app. They're all like we don't want to be LTK or that's really usually the hat that they want to hang [00:15:00] on is that they don't want to be LTK.
But I'm like, there's just as much power in owning the consumer part of the funnel as owning the creator part of the funnel, because then you basically own the entire funnel. And it's from a business perspective, it's like, why would you not want skin in the game on the consumer piece? Wild how these platforms and I've spoken to two really big ones.
And they're just like, we will never, it's wild because I feel like that's the secret sauce of LTK.
Michelle: In Alexa, you even said it like when people open the app, they want to shop. So I think that that's why all the platforms that don't have their own platform they would feel diversification more.
Because if you happen to not use them in your story where you've pre primed people to click and if it's just like, [00:16:00] oh, nice's birthday party and by the way, here's my cute shoes, but here's All the kids they're going to pass that over and then that platform is not going to get anything.
But it is, LTK is just like synonymous with the app, which is just such a bummer for other platforms.
Monica: But it's like other platforms could make the choice to keep up create their own spin on it. It doesn't have to be copy paste, but it's just because Instagram existed, didn't mean that TikTok would never exist.
I feel like it's such a limited mindset for these tech companies to decide, Oh,
Alexa: We
Monica: already lost.
Alexa: So
Michelle: actually question, Alexa diversification. I know we talk about that all the time. Like you're on trend.
Alexa: How do
Michelle: you think that next year? And you already listed a lot of the platforms, right?
Target creator, LTK, collective voice, Howl, if you [00:17:00] decide to use impact how would you manage all of that? Because in that's. One thing that I think that some of the companies and creators, like you can benefit, but then more work is put on you to manage all of that. So it's like, yes, the monetary benefit may be worth there, but if it's going to take more of your time, like, how do you think you'll approach
Alexa: that?
I think for me personally, it's two things. One, it's like, where do I like spending my time and where do I see the most like ROI on my time? If I'm creating content that I like to create, it's just going to land better because it's more authentic. And people are like, okay, shouldn't just throw this together because she had to put a post up.
It's like, oh, this was well thought out. And it's made for me, like the person I'm trying to target. And if I like it. I know they're gonna like it. Like There's just more love behind it. So I think about my creation process as okay, are they gonna like this? Good. [00:18:00] I like creating. It makes me feel good.
There's a lot of people who there's like a specific format of it real and everyone has to make that real to get followers. It's like that's not fueling me. I'm not gonna spend my time doing that. Cause I know it's not going to convert if it's like not feeling me. It's like the cycle, right?
The second way I think about it is every piece of content that I make, I, it's like a mindset. I think of it as like my employee. I put it to work for me. If it's on my Instagram feed, I'm putting it on Pinterest. I'm putting it on my website. I'm including it in my email newsletter. I'm popping it on my LTK shop.
I'm putting it in my Amazon storefront. Like I'm putting it as many things as places. As possible because I'm just like, I'm a one woman show over here and I don't have this big team. So I'm just trying to work smarter, not harder with what I can produce. And I know we were talking about this.
There's so many different platforms, but if I could link something on LTK and it's all Amazon things, I can also put in my Amazon storefront and I can also put it in my tap to shop with collective voice. Like why wouldn't I do that? Because. [00:19:00] In the consumer journey, if they happen to land in my Amazon storefront, but originally my intention was only sharing it to LTK, they're in Amazon ready to shop, like they're not going to go all the way back to my LTK.
So I just try to make it as easy as possible and make it as easy as possible on myself to get my content out there. If I'm taking the time and effort. To create something that I loved creating and I know my ideal audience likes, I'm going to make sure it's everywhere it needs to be you can't be everything to everyone.
And there's so many different platforms. The only currency is time is how I look at it. And if I can just So I'm going to try to maximize my time spent and really focus on ROI in everything I do. I feel like that's how I was able to go full time with this because that's been my philosophy from the beginning.
It's like, how can I just be as smart and organized as possible? And a lot of my followers will even message me and they're like, thank you so much for making it easy to shop. Sometimes I see things and I have to go down a [00:20:00] rabbit hole to find it. That's also like zooming out diversification.
Like I want it everywhere I don't want to just be affiliated with one platform. I want to train my shoppers to know Okay I can go read a blog post, but also I know if I'm on the email list I'll get exclusive content, right? It's all about just education and just working as smart as you can.
And then, eventually I know people who, they do hire out help. They have VAs and they have a team. With me, though, I'm like, I enjoy, it's hard to figure out what I want to outsource because I really like everything that I get to do.
Monica: On a more granular level, About this, what do you prioritize when it comes to actually creating the link?
So let's say you have something where you could either link it straight to that retailer's website or to a bigger Brand like let's say nordstrom Do you go based off commission rate or do you go based off of the store that? You think your audience is more likely to [00:21:00] shop at or does that? Thought process even cross your mind at all when trying to decide where to create the
Alexa: links for It does cross my mind specifically because Howl, one of the reasons why I love using Howl is because they have dynamic linking.
So they know where my consumer is more likely to check out. So I can just find a product and be like, okay, I'm going to share this, Charlotte Tilbury highlighter. And I can just use my Howl dynamic link. Because I know they're gonna figure out on the back end, like, where to send that person that's clicking the link.
And I feel like there's some sort of secret sauce there that I think Every other platform needs to go that route. But when I think of, and I think it's genius, I love working with Howl. Actually, really fast on
Michelle: that. Do you ever get feedback from your followers?
Or I guess my big concern with that is [00:22:00] You would potentially set an expectation that they would be going somewhere and then in reality, they're driven to a different retailer I guess if you don't do that and you just more so share the highlighter as opposed to being like You can get this at Ulta or whatever then there wouldn't be that expectation to break But have you ever gotten feedback from one of your?
Followers on, like they weren't directed where they were expecting to go.
Alexa: That's a really good question. The only thing that I think has happened is I'm like such a rule follower. Like I know you cannot send a direct link to Amazon no, you can't do that. So sometimes people will message me and be like, can you share, can you send me the link for that?
Amazon tray that you shared the other day. And it's like, I want to make it as easy as possible for them, but I'm not breaking the rules ever. So I'm like, okay here's the link on my LTK shop to that tray. People are like, oh, okay. But I, and sometimes, and they're like, why did you send me to LTK?
And I'll be [00:23:00] like I know I don't want to share a direct link, I just follow the rules. And they're like, oh, I didn't even know that was a thing. Like, Don't worry about it as long as you have your tray. Good luck. Thank you for asking. But with Howl dynamic linking, let's say if it's like an Ulta sale, I'm going to turn off dynamic linking because if let's say I'm doing like a post or a story series and it's like, here are my favorite pics sale.
If I'm sharing my favorite Ulta sale and someone gets sent to buy that product on Nordstrom, they're gonna be like, what? What's going on? I want to use the coupon code for the Ulta sale. So I'll try to be intentional and be like, okay, I'm turning off dynamic linking for those because the content pillar is the sale that's going on with that specific retailer versus the product in general.
But usually I just try to. Mix up the products and make it less focused on the actual retailer of the product unless it's like my favorite J. Crew picks I can't link out J. Crew anywhere else but J. Crew. Yep. On
Monica: the note of Amazon, have you played around with URL
Alexa: Genius? I was on URL Genius for a little bit, but now I'm [00:24:00] on JotURL.
I like the ease of deep linking. What I will say. Is I've noticed and I don't know I feel like all the platforms are probably feeling this like the affiliate networks story views have dramatically decreased since October, right? Have you guys talked about meta AI? No. Yeah, no, we haven't.
Okay, it's my best friend. Basically, you can talk to the Instagram algorithm. So obviously like, I feel like I. Know the algorithm a little bit better than like the average person because I worked there for seven years But they just came out with this thing called meta ai and In instagram, you can go to your messages You go to create a new message and you can chat with meta ai And you can ask it anything you want.
You can be like, hi, I tried this other day I'm like, I have x number of followers. I want 40 percent story viewership Give me the exact blueprint I need to follow To hit that boom, automated response. I followed it to a [00:25:00] T I got my 40 percent viewership. Like it will tell you what you need.
If you ask it very direct questions, it'll like, it's literally like talking to the algorithm. So I asked it, I'm like, can you tell me about the October 20, 23 algorithm updates to Instagram? And it responded and it was like, we prioritized D prioritizing accounts that share too many links. And I'm like, that's probably why.
A lot of accounts were saying, okay, mid October, right around after Prime Day, um, Prime Big Day deals ended, like my story views dropped. And it's probably because everything you do on Instagram is a data point. So that's why when I was starting my account, I was really intentional with everything I did.
Every word I entered into my bio, every comment I left, every follow, every interaction. Because they have data points on how many links people have been sharing in their stories and how much, at the end of the day, traffic you're driving out of Instagram, right? With deep linking, every single time I put a deep link in, I'm kicking [00:26:00] someone out of the Instagram in app browser, I think that's a strike against me.
And I even asked my new bestie, my robot bestie, Meta AI, and it was like, yes, we are doing that. I'm like, I knew it! I think Yes, deep linking is amazing because the conversions are so much higher, but if Instagram is your sole platform, I would be really intentional with how many links you're sharing because it, at the end of the day, I have whatever number of followers I have.
I could, there can be an account. I have friends with a million followers and we get the same story views at the end of the day. So we have the same reach. Maybe it's because of every single data point Instagram has and how it's treating your account based on how many eyeballs you're going to keep in the app specifically.
I think that's the only thing. Instagram cares about is if you're creating content that makes people spend time in the app, it's going to push out your content. thAt's exactly what happened with Facebook in the
Michelle: groups. One thing I totally want to try [00:27:00] talking to the internet bestie, but this goes back
Alexa: to
Michelle: Monica in one of the first episodes.
That we had which oh my gosh embarrassing if we go back and listen to those but you made a comment that Everything is in front of you like they're sharing stuff
Monica: what I will die on this hill that the algorithm isn't trying to kill your business like I go in I just I get really frustrated when people hang their hats on that They're never going to be able to meet their potential because they're always at battle with the algorithm and I'm like the algorithm wants you to succeed because if everyone created things that were so bad that no one stayed on the app, there would be no app.
So why would the algorithm ever want to do that, and I think it's really easy and this is where mindset comes in. It's really easy to want to blame something on [00:28:00] an external. Force that you can't explain right like you can't explain the algorithm So it's an easy target because whoever you complain about the algorithm to they can't really vouch for it either like most people can't be like actually this is why you're wrong So it's like such an easy target, but I just, I've never bought into it that your content creation business has to be a constant battle with the algorithm.
Alexa: Correct. And I feel like a lot of people use it as their scapegoat. The algorithm hates me. If I ever see any sort of Dip or shift I zoom out because to your point Instagram wants eyeballs and instagram like they want people engaged in the platform Zoom out even more It's like they make money through ads.
So they want content on the platform so they can put an ad in between Monica's post and my post that creates an ad space for them, right? [00:29:00] Like they want to encourage creation and fresh new ideas and people coming back to the platform because at the end of the day, they want to sell ad space. And that's honestly my number one gripe with Instagram.
When I was a YouTuber, I got money via AdSense, right? There maybe is a future where maybe Instagram is doing ad revenue sharing with creators to help compensate creators, because at the end of the day I've never received a check from Instagram for my account, ever. It's because of the platform I've built where brands want to work with me or I can use it to share links to products that I can affiliate a commission on, but people are like, oh my god, Instagram is trying to kill my business.
It's really not, to your point, it's just maybe suppressing your reach because you're driving a lot of traffic outside. Or maybe your content isn't hitting as well as it used to, maybe you changed something, maybe you yourself aren't spending the amount of time that you did before. What I will say is, if [00:30:00] you give to Instagram, You can't take away.
So let's say if you're sticking to a consistent posting schedule and One week you go on vacation people are always like, oh my gosh I came back to my beach vacation and i've zero story views. I have no likes. I have no comments It's because instagram is probably like counting on you is how I think of it for that ad space and then you just let it down and it's gonna Same thing if you're spending a thousand dollars on advertising and you just stop spending on ads, it's going to be a little shocked.
So how I think about my consistency level is what can I personally commit to as a creator? Because I never want to get to a place where I'm posting two reels a day and one post a day. And then one day I'm burned out. I can't do that anymore because. Instagram will slap your wrist, I think, if you do that.
And that's probably why the algorithm is hating us, because maybe it's just you weren't as consistent as you used to be, or your content's changed, or [00:31:00] people are just swiping away, or you're kicking people out of the app too much, and they don't Like, that's a data point that someone left the app when they engage with your content.
That's not good. So every link you share has to be, like, the best link ever. And I think you mentioned it. I think it was today's episode, Monica. You were like, everyone's trying to sell a Stanley Cup and a belt bag. Yeah. Let's not share that anymore. Because people aren't going to click that link anymore.
They already have their belt bag and their Stanley mug. And know
Monica: where to find it. They know where, they can go to lululemon.
Alexa: com. That's right. Exactly. So I think of everything I share as a premium space where I'm not going to squander the opportunity because the, especially right now, like everyone's a creator.
Every brand is trying to wrap up Q4. There's just so much content right now. Same amount of eyeballs, if not less eyeballs than there were in 2020 when we were all glued to our phones. So it's just increased competition, increased amount of content, more [00:32:00] creators, and then the same amount of people looking at Instagram.
So it's going to feel like reach has definitely dropped since the past 18 months or even last year. That's a
Michelle: really good point with the, overall platform size because if you have all the same amount of people, but then you have more creators the overall, I guess like circle isn't getting any bigger.
So then you need to pay more attention to data and how I was going to say when you were like, Oh um, the algorithm is your friend. And it gets mad at you. I'm like, Oh my gosh, you can totally tell you used to
Alexa: Facebook, but it's, Oh, think about it. Cause it's not like. there's this
Michelle: tension, it's like you need to understand what its goals are, and then you both raise each other up.
Alexa: Yes, exactly. And in story school, what I would teach is Instagram is telling you exactly what it wants from you. If you're a [00:33:00] creator account, if you're a business account, you just go into your professional dashboard. Like when I first started doing this, I was like, okay, I'm going to try reels. I'm going to try posts and try stories.
I'm going to see what has the most engagement and most reach. And then hopefully it's something that like I like to do because then I can spend my time there more. And then it's like a snowball effect, like going in a good direction. So that's what I did. I spent like the first 60 days. I'm like, I'm going to try out different.
Types of content and then see what works based on the insights I was surprised to see that like my posts get six times the amount of reach as my reels And I think that's just because reels in general in the past two years Like everyone knows reels is the way to grow on instagram. So everyone's making a reel Maybe right now, if reels aren't slapping for you, you have to pivot to a carousel post or a static deep post or, doing a live.
Maybe that's how you're going to get more engagement, but the answers are in your professional dashboard. It's telling you here's what we want to see more of because this is how your reach was so much more than this other form of content. [00:34:00] So that's why I think Instagram's good because it gives you that data.
But then also at the end of the day. You can lose your Instagram account. So I think it's really important to have a platform that you own and you're not just Doing everything based on having one social media account There was even a post today that I saw on Facebook like this blogger group I'm in someone lost their Instagram account and I actually lost my account for a full week, and I'm pretty confident I would never have gotten it back if I wasn't like a current employee at the time Yeah,
Monica: when I was at LTK when I worked there, maybe like maybe once or twice a year It didn't happen super often, but one of our top creators Instagram accounts would get shut down and it was literally all hands on deck asking every single employee Does anyone know one person at facebook because creators were looking to us at ltk, you know as the experts to be able to Support them through something as difficult, but it was like, okay, I think so and so [00:35:00] two years ago started working at Instagram.
Is anyone still friends with her? And it really was all hands on deck. We just need to find a human.
Alexa: Someone. A hundred percent. Because I feel like that. And even working there, I probably helped a hundred people get their accounts back. I was always like, hi, my, my boyfriend's cousin's account got shut down.
Can you like put in the special form that you can put in? otHerwise I think it's a black hole. And even if you're meta verified, that's not like account insurance of you're never going to get shut down. Sometimes it's really it's a mistake.
Mine was, like, so random. It was just too much traffic on one post. And they're like, no, this must be spam. I'm like, I wish they would shut down the actual spammers. Yeah. Okay, fine. But it is really hard. And honestly If you have a creator and you're an LTK and they're bringing in a certain number of revenue And the only way they're driving that is through their instagram Like of course you're like, how can we help them?
And that's why I think all the platforms right now probably are even feeling [00:36:00] the dip in story views since the october algorithm update because a lot of people just sell on their stories and not so much in feed or reels and now that the reach is decreasing i'm sure at the end of the day The affiliate networks are feeling that too.
You know what's funny is
Michelle: they gave the ability to link out in stories. And it's just funny how things evolve, because they gave the ability to easily link out. So then people did it, and there were probably like, too many people are linking out. So now we gotta
Alexa: Shift back. Yep. 100%. And I remember when you had to have 10, 000 followers to swipe up.
But now everyone can link out. And I even asked my robot Bestie, I'm like, how many links in 24 hours? you suppress an account's reach. It said max two. It'll give you answers. It'll be like, no more than one to two and 24 hours. They're like, if you share more than three, your [00:37:00] reach might be suppressed.
So it is very clear. And to me, at least I'm like, okay, they don't want me driving traffic out of Instagram. So a lot of my creator friends are like, oh my God, I am having a really bad month revenue wise. It's because My reach is really down I don't think we should be Hanging our hat on one specific medium within one specific platform to make our income.
That's really scary to me And that's why
Monica: i'm more on one of the creators that i'm thinking of Who lost their account for I think she was it ended up being two weeks But because she had such high traffic to her blog She was able to still go live with all her sponsor posts. She didn't have to put any campaigns on hold she had an email list as well where she emailed everyone on her list, hey, this is what's going on.
So she had really set herself up for best case scenario if something like that happens. And, It proved to work and then she was able, once it was back, she was able to send an email [00:38:00] to her email list put up a thing on her blog, like all the different things. And she is like the perfect case study of she set herself up for success in case X, Y, Z
Alexa: happened, right?
I think your only insurance policy is your website and your email list because even trends, what if Gen Z doesn't want to go on Instagram in five years? They're like, Oh, it's toxic. I don't want to go on it. Then what are you going to do if you have this massive following on one platform?
That's not future proofing your business.
Stay tuned. Part two of our conversation with Alexa will be released next week.
