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Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.
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Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest
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strategies in the marketing game.
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Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside
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Marketing with Market Surge.
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Today's guest is someone helping
marketers navigate one of the
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biggest shifts in digital discovery
since the birth of Google.
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Leon Urich is the founder and CEO
of Brandy ai, a platform focused
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on AI visibility and generative
engine optimization, or GEO helping
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brands understand how they appear
inside AI generated answers from
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tools like Chat, GPT Gemini, and
other generative search engines.
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Before launching Brandy Leah built an
incredible career at the intersection
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of technology, pr, and growth marketing.
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Founding Gabriel Marketing
Group, an award-winning agency.
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And earlier in her career, she led
go-to market strategy for Motorola's
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enterprise device business and helped
scale their field mobility applications.
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Unit from 25 million to 250 million.
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In revenue in under five years.
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With over 25 years in B2B tech, marketing,
PR, and SaaS growth, Leah has seen
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multiple waves of marketing disruption.
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We're really excited to hear from you.
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Thanks for joining the show, Leah.
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Leah Nurik: Thanks.
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That was quite the introduction.
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Thanks for having me read.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: You bet.
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Well, you know, I find it really pays
to just start on a good note, you
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know, and I like tremendous experience
and we're all feeling good and we're
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gonna have a great conversation, so.
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Leah Nurik: Sounds good.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So, at what
point did you realize that AI was
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going to disrupt the online visibility
part of the, the marketing process?
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What, what caught your eye and,
and made you think that that was
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a real opportunity or threat?
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Leah Nurik: So before I founded
you, you mentioned before I
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founded co-founded Brandy.
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I ran an agency for 14
years, and so probably about.
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About a year and a half, two years
ago, two years ago, we started getting
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questions in the sales cycle from some of
our savvy prospects about, okay, if I do
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this, if I hire you for PR or for digital
or content optimization and that kind
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of thing, how is this actually going to
impact the way I come back in AI search?
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And I was like, literally I
don't know, better figure it out.
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So we started trying to figure
it out and I think we, we started
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cracking the code and we're like, ah.
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And it started to just see that,
it wasn't about trying to trick
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the AI or trying to get the.
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Get the AI to do something
that I didn't wanna do.
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But it actually fit so much into our
philosophy and my personal philosophy
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around marketing, around really telling
authentic, credible stories and producing
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really meaningful content that really
connected with the pain points of
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users and really being aligning with.
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With product companies and services
companies that were mission driven
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and that, so I just started to
realize that if you could tell those
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authentic and credible stories and
really come at it from a place of
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authenticity you would win the rush
for you'd win the game against your
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competitors in coming up in AI search.
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And so that's how it started.
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And then we made the product.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.
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Well, you know, we've got all levels of
technical expertise among our audience.
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So maybe for those that aren't
super familiar or, or immersed
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in, in this world, what would you
say exactly is generative engine
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optimization and how does it differ
fundamentally from traditional SEO?
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Leah Nurik: Okay.
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Yeah, so generative engine
optimization are the actions
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that you can take, as well as the
process of measuring and monitoring.
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How your brand, whether it's a
personal brand or a product actually
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shows up and is represented within
generative AI search results.
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So that's fundamentally what it is.
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So how do I measure, monitor it, and then
what actions do I take through either.
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or targeting in order to improve how often
that I come back in those recommendations
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or those answers, as well as how do
I influence the answer through my own
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activities, so that's what, how I would
define generative engine optimization.
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And so how, I would say it's different
than traditional SEO where just
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fundamentally SEO or traditional
search was really focused on.
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Showing up as one of those top 10
blue links and requiring a click.
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Now the searcher gets that response
and potentially has your product
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or recommendation in the response.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.
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So now given that, and obviously we
know that AI is becoming a bigger
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and bigger part of our lives.
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It's more, you know, we're seeing it
more places, we're using it more often.
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Do you think that we are starting
to see the end of traditional
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search engines and the traditional.
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Search engine approach, you know, the
blue links you refer to, or do you
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think they will continue to coexist?
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Leah Nurik: So that's the million dollar
question, but I think I would parse
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it up a little bit and then I'd love
to hear what you think about it too.
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So if you take the search results
the algorithms have changed.
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So they're not about matching to
words, they're about deciphering
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intent of the searcher.
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So that's fundamentally.
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shift.
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So even if you have a blue link that
comes back, the blue link is not driven
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by keyword matching it's by the LLM
or the algorithm trying to decipher
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what it was that I wanted to find out.
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that's fundamentally different.
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So even if I do have that blue
link is coming up based upon
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different things than it came up.
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That it was picked by years ago, or
three, even 18 months, two years ago.
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Okay.
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So that's one thing.
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So I think that's.
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That's a huge shift.
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That being said, around that were
so important around SEO in general
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that led the algorithm to be able
to return you in the beginning, like
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technical SEO foundations, site speed.
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Are you using your JavaScript?
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Do is it, do you have authority
or do you have category
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alignment in either messaging?
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That kind of thing.
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Those things are still.
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Are so important and will continue to
be, because if you can't be indexed
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or found, if you're not using the
right structure of H ones or H twos or
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whatever, none of it matters for intent.
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So I think that there.
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They're the best bed fellows.
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I think that go and writing and thinking
about writing for and thinking about
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intent and question tax question task
alignment and like prompt site ability and
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understanding how search is different by
providing more directional guidance versus
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it being keyword matching is crucial.
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And so it's just an, it's an evolution.
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It's a very dramatic shift.
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And that is all true, but one
doesn't make the other one obsolete.
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do you think?
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Well, you
know, of course I'm a little sheepish.
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I, I feel like I'm not quite as
well versed into this as you, but
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I, I would say just at, at a high
level in the, the decades I've
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worked in tech, I with like massive.
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Technology shifts.
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There's such a long tail of adoption
or like this adoption of a big
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technology for a variety of reasons.
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You know, anecdotally like enterprise
tech users and like older generations
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still, like, you know, people I
talk to don't want to touch ai.
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They, you know, they're a
little nervous around it.
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And so I think that it.
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You know, if it is replaced.
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I think it's, it's still a long,
long way before before it is.
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But I, I think that the ai
intelligence is going to need to
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rely on some of the sophistication
that SEO has in, in ranking.
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You know, that's still very valuable
data for them to to process answers.
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Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
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But I, I mean, I wanna
hear from the experts.
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Leah Nurik: No, to your
point though, right?
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So like even if I don't adapt or I
don't adopt, Chachi PT or perplexity,
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even if I go to Google today.
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Algorithms change.
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So when I get a response 80% of the
time, I'm gonna get a Google AI overview.
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my 80 plus year old father has spinal
stenosis and he was searching for The
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best sneakers for his spinal stenosis.
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And I was trying to just explain kind of
what Brandy does and that kind of thing.
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And so we were, I was juxtaposing
the Google search environment
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with what I got from chat gt.
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And the answers and the recommendations
were quite similar because it was
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trying to decipher what is my intent.
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In searching for this.
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And so I was still getting an AI summary,
which is motivated or driven or comes
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about because of a revised algorithm.
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Yeah, it's just, if you don't
wanna use it, it's still there.
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You escape.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Can't,
well, you know, it's such a behemoth
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and there's so much inertia on it,
you know, hard to just completely
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swap out as fast as AI is moving.
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Now you, you have a, a platform here and
I'd, I'd love to hear about it, you know,
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what, what is your approach and, and
then I've got some follow up questions.
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So maybe could you give us a
little overview of, you know,
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what is Brandy ai and, and you
know, what, what is it used for?
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Leah Nurik: Yeah, sure.
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So Brandy is what we call a generative
engine optimization platform.
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Customers can take a look and see
where it is that their brand is coming
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back and what answers not only if it's
coming back, but why is it coming back?
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Then what different sources
are influencing the answer.
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So it may be your website,
your competitor's website or
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earned media customer review
programs, anything influencers.
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But it gives you that ability to see at a
global level where it, your brand appears.
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driving that?
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Who and what is driving that mention?
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And then beyond that, it, there's
two other components of the product.
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One is, how are you positioned?
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Are you positioned positively, negatively?
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How are you positioned
against your competitors?
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Is there misinformation in there?
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Is it accurate, is it not?
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So you can really see if
you are being positioned the
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way you wanna be positioned.
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And then the third component is a
complete suite, very robust suite
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of optimization tools that enable
you to optimize your web content
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as well as your third party content
performance, marketing pages, et cetera.
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Anything you could possibly publish for
being read interpreted and summarized,
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and then returned in an AI search engine.
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And then it allows you to
track your progress over time.
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So giving you those little micro moments
of delight where there's a marketer,
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you go out and you do something and
you write this blog post and you try
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to target a specific buyer persona or
prompt or whatever it is, and then you
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get to see when it comes back and start
seeing that progress that you're making.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So Is this
tool primarily for enterprise users
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that have a massive volume or can it
be also effectively used by like small
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and medium sized businesses that like,
have a local reach that might, they're
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trying to be found for you know,
home service near me type searches.
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what what would you say to that?
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Leah Nurik: It can be
used across the board.
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We have Fortune 500 companies that
are using it at enterprise level
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for multiple different brands and
different industry segments and
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multiple different languages across.
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Geographies that stretch across the globe.
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But then we also have users that have,
three logins or two logins that are
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monitoring a hundred prompts across.
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To AI models.
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So we really have the ability for any
type of organization and honestly in
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any vertical, really any industries.
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We have companies that, large
pharma companies that are using
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the product, large makeup brands.
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And then we have small smaller type
SMBs that are really looking to focus
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like locally and geographically on a
few geographies for, beard grooming.
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Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
That sounds awesome.
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The so.
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What now?
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in SEO, you know, we're often trying
to get to page one, to the map pack
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to the number one overall RA ranking.
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What is the equivalent of that in A GEO?
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Like where do you, where do
you hit the success point for
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a certain kind of inquiry?
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Leah Nurik: Yeah, so I would say
that for, if you think about it, like
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information discovery, what are, what's
the best hair clip for people with.
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Thin hair.
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Okay.
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That's a problem that the user has.
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It's not Hey, claral
versus L'Oreal hair clips.
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So it, so you, would you look at that,
like the funnel or the search, type
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progression like the buyer journey.
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And the question is, you would
have multiple KPIs, like, how
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often do I come back in prompts?
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information discovery.
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So how often am I recommended in there?
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And then how often is what I'm
producing actually influencing the
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narrative of that conversation?
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I might have created this hair
clip, and this hair clip has
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redefined what a hair clip is.
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It's made from sustainable materials.
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It never falls out.
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It doesn't crack.
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It's not hard to.
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Maybe if I had arthritis or
something, it's easy to open.
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So I've re, I've come up with what I
believe to be the platonic form of the
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hair clip, very disruptive and exciting.
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It could be that, or new ERP software.
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Very different but similar concept, right?
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So I wanna be found and problem
statements like problem or questions
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that are looking to solve a problem.
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So I would say, how often is my company
coming back and being recommended when
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somebody's asking this information
discovery question in which they're
00:14:26.662 --> 00:14:27.772
trying to solve their problem?
00:14:28.612 --> 00:14:33.892
I may also say, how often is my
website or my own, or the marketing
00:14:33.892 --> 00:14:39.472
activities that I'm doing influencing
that conversation to redefine the.
00:14:40.527 --> 00:14:43.287
of what a hair clip is according
to my view of the world.
00:14:43.707 --> 00:14:47.247
And then I might also look at
what's my share of voice compared
00:14:47.247 --> 00:14:49.137
with competitors in AI search.
00:14:49.467 --> 00:14:51.177
So am I winning the conversation?
00:14:51.177 --> 00:14:54.117
Am I dominating it over my competitor?
00:14:55.197 --> 00:14:58.947
and then also how is
it that I'm positioned?
00:14:58.947 --> 00:15:00.417
Is it positive and negative?
00:15:00.727 --> 00:15:03.127
And then am I able to influence that?
00:15:04.716 --> 00:15:05.206
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.
00:15:05.966 --> 00:15:10.386
So now given that, is
there low hanging fruit?
00:15:10.686 --> 00:15:13.866
Say a company just, you know, like
where, where do I start if I want
00:15:13.866 --> 00:15:16.956
to increase my AI visibility today?
00:15:16.956 --> 00:15:22.476
Like maybe are there common things you're
seeing over and over again that they're
00:15:22.476 --> 00:15:28.466
doing well in other areas of marketing,
but just not ranking in AI search at all?
00:15:28.796 --> 00:15:31.496
What, what are some of those,
those low hanging fruits so
00:15:31.496 --> 00:15:33.206
they could take advantage of?
00:15:33.472 --> 00:15:35.872
Leah Nurik: so earned media is huge.
00:15:35.962 --> 00:15:40.462
So earned media pull gets cited
a ton in AI search results.
00:15:40.882 --> 00:15:42.712
But that can take time getting.
00:15:43.392 --> 00:15:46.242
Getting on your show or getting,
and on the front page of the
00:15:46.242 --> 00:15:47.382
Wall Street Journal, right?
00:15:47.382 --> 00:15:53.112
It takes time, but earned media makes
can really move the needle for GEO.
00:15:53.452 --> 00:15:58.192
The other thing is that if you have
good SEO bones and you fundamentally,
00:15:58.192 --> 00:16:01.822
you invested in traditional digital and
you've got good domain authority, and
00:16:01.822 --> 00:16:06.562
you have all those things, one of the
things and core things you can do is start
00:16:06.562 --> 00:16:08.902
producing more content, but not just.
00:16:09.682 --> 00:16:13.792
Not crap, like not ai, slop,
real good, meaningful content.
00:16:14.122 --> 00:16:17.872
So Brandy has, is built on a very
deep intelligence layer that actually
00:16:17.872 --> 00:16:22.132
identifies what people within
your market are struggling with.
00:16:22.132 --> 00:16:24.412
What are their triggers,
emotional triggers, why do
00:16:24.412 --> 00:16:25.822
they buy, why don't they buy?
00:16:26.122 --> 00:16:28.372
What are the most common complaints?
00:16:28.372 --> 00:16:30.802
And it does this through a
sophisticated listening engine.
00:16:31.672 --> 00:16:35.662
what it does is also recommends like
what are the right types of content
00:16:35.692 --> 00:16:39.862
for you to produce, like whether it's
blog or social posts and 'cause AI
00:16:39.862 --> 00:16:41.572
tends to like certain types of content.
00:16:41.842 --> 00:16:45.772
So if you follow the prescriptions within
Brandy by producing your own content,
00:16:46.102 --> 00:16:52.392
your own owned content, then most
likely you'll start to see a big needle.
00:16:52.812 --> 00:16:54.522
But there are a couple of hacks.
00:16:54.712 --> 00:16:57.712
And when I say hacks, I
don't mean any trickery.
00:16:57.712 --> 00:16:59.602
We're definitely not
promoting any trickery.
00:16:59.632 --> 00:17:02.392
But, one of the things you can do is.
00:17:03.177 --> 00:17:07.437
You can put out press releases that
tell your authentic, credible story.
00:17:07.657 --> 00:17:10.567
But it does it in a way that
it goes out over the wire.
00:17:10.757 --> 00:17:13.637
For example, some of the
wires tend to pro, tend to get
00:17:13.637 --> 00:17:15.317
picked up by AI very quickly.
00:17:15.527 --> 00:17:19.007
So if you structure a press release in
the right way and you start doing like
00:17:19.007 --> 00:17:23.707
kind of non-traditional press releases,
things that are more like trend oriented
00:17:23.767 --> 00:17:27.217
or point of views or things like that.
00:17:27.247 --> 00:17:31.037
And you put them out on the wire
and you structure them in a very
00:17:31.037 --> 00:17:34.457
specific way which you could use
Brandy to do because Brandy does
00:17:34.487 --> 00:17:36.737
optimization or press releases then.
00:17:37.442 --> 00:17:40.182
You'll start to see a Moodle
the needle move very quickly.
00:17:40.482 --> 00:17:45.182
I I ran a couple tests myself
on our brandy product and,
00:17:45.212 --> 00:17:47.292
or like on the, as a test.
00:17:47.542 --> 00:17:51.522
And I saw that based upon the wire
services that we were using, we saw that.
00:17:51.657 --> 00:17:54.867
We started getting cited for some of
those questions, like almost like within
00:17:54.867 --> 00:17:57.097
a day or two for those specific prompts.
00:17:57.097 --> 00:18:00.577
So that's a nice low hanging
fruit thing that you can do, but
00:18:00.727 --> 00:18:03.337
it has to be optimized correctly
with the right structure.
00:18:04.336 --> 00:18:04.626
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.
00:18:05.096 --> 00:18:05.696
Fantastic.
00:18:06.806 --> 00:18:13.166
Overall, what kinds of skills do marketers
need to I mean, are there different
00:18:13.166 --> 00:18:17.186
skills that marketers are going to need
to emphasize in the next few years?
00:18:18.026 --> 00:18:23.926
Kind of based on your, your experience
you know, going deep into GEO would
00:18:23.926 --> 00:18:28.666
you say marketers need to emphasize
something else, need to retool?
00:18:28.906 --> 00:18:30.676
What do you think about
that for the next few years?
00:18:31.362 --> 00:18:36.552
Leah Nurik: I think AI in general is
just across the entire work environment
00:18:36.552 --> 00:18:43.842
is shifting things in the sense of the
people who will do the best are the ones.
00:18:44.547 --> 00:18:47.157
Who can straddle multiple different roles.
00:18:48.477 --> 00:18:51.587
if I even just take it outta
marketing and I look let's keep it
00:18:51.587 --> 00:18:52.727
in marketing, product marketing.
00:18:52.787 --> 00:18:53.117
Okay.
00:18:53.397 --> 00:18:57.837
The product marketer who can,
instead of trying to just.
00:18:59.202 --> 00:19:01.512
put the button over here
because this is important.
00:19:01.782 --> 00:19:06.272
Goes to lovable and can figure out how
to talk to lovable, to mock up their
00:19:06.272 --> 00:19:09.722
dream of what they want the product,
new product features to look like.
00:19:10.112 --> 00:19:12.602
That's not something product
marketing used to do.
00:19:12.672 --> 00:19:16.572
Product marketing would focus
on messaging, it would focus on
00:19:16.572 --> 00:19:19.577
driving, trying to drive consensus
with product management, but now
00:19:19.577 --> 00:19:21.917
they can walk into a product meeting
and say, this is what I mean.
00:19:22.347 --> 00:19:26.492
And that's a very, and that's an
I came from product marketing, so
00:19:26.492 --> 00:19:28.022
to me that's just, mind blowing.
00:19:28.072 --> 00:19:30.622
But and what, so when it comes
to more traditional marketers
00:19:30.672 --> 00:19:31.752
I think it's the same thing.
00:19:31.872 --> 00:19:35.832
The tactical digital strategist
who now needs to think about, okay,
00:19:36.282 --> 00:19:40.272
content isn't just about putting
the key word in there five times.
00:19:40.632 --> 00:19:46.902
The content really has to connect with
intent, the problems that person has.
00:19:47.502 --> 00:19:51.642
How do they, so now is that person
straddling more of like the content
00:19:51.642 --> 00:19:56.142
studio that used to be in the organization
the content strategist person who might
00:19:56.142 --> 00:20:01.422
have been focused on just on, on writing
content solely now is looking at okay, now
00:20:01.422 --> 00:20:06.042
I might have to go across and start really
looking at the impact of pr, not just.
00:20:06.717 --> 00:20:11.157
Approving the press releases or helping to
restructure the press releases, but I need
00:20:11.157 --> 00:20:14.367
to really understand what earned media is.
00:20:14.667 --> 00:20:20.007
So I think it's really about, one of the
things that's cool about generative engine
00:20:20.007 --> 00:20:22.707
optimization is that it brings together.
00:20:23.122 --> 00:20:28.192
All of these different disciplines,
and it allows a marketing leader and
00:20:28.192 --> 00:20:33.802
strategist to bring together everybody
in one platform to see the impact.
00:20:34.282 --> 00:20:38.782
So pro we have users in our product,
marketing, content people, digital
00:20:38.782 --> 00:20:45.082
people, PR people, and then agencies
that are logging into the same platform
00:20:45.382 --> 00:20:49.882
and utilizing it all for unique
work functions underneath marketing.
00:20:50.122 --> 00:20:51.112
And that to me is.
00:20:52.162 --> 00:20:56.762
'cause it takes traditionally siloed
disciplines, brings them together and then
00:20:56.762 --> 00:21:03.392
gives leadership the ability to report out
of all of that and see the impact across.
00:21:03.392 --> 00:21:06.002
And we all know that when it
comes to collaboration, one
00:21:06.002 --> 00:21:08.342
plus one doesn't equal two.
00:21:08.342 --> 00:21:10.922
It is usually exponentially higher.
00:21:12.031 --> 00:21:12.301
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.
00:21:12.361 --> 00:21:13.111
Absolutely.
00:21:14.071 --> 00:21:18.071
Well, Leah, this is really
great to hear your perspective.
00:21:18.071 --> 00:21:24.521
I, I think it's a, a frontier that
excites and frightens and, you know, it
00:21:24.521 --> 00:21:28.601
raises a lot of questions and you know,
I appreciate all that, that you shared.
00:21:28.811 --> 00:21:33.701
If people would like to work with
you you know, work with, use brandy
00:21:33.701 --> 00:21:37.341
or, I mean, who knows even have
you as a future podcast guest,
00:21:37.371 --> 00:21:40.851
where, where can you be found or
what links would you like to share?
00:21:41.867 --> 00:21:42.167
Leah Nurik: Cool.
00:21:42.167 --> 00:21:43.187
Yeah, no thanks Reid.
00:21:43.237 --> 00:21:45.967
You can find us@mybrandy.ai
00:21:45.967 --> 00:21:49.597
and you can find me on
LinkedIn at Leah Gabriel Nric.
00:21:49.867 --> 00:21:53.797
Or you can navigate to me from
our Brandy AI LinkedIn page.
00:21:54.306 --> 00:21:54.916
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Fantastic.
00:21:54.946 --> 00:21:56.741
Well, thank you so much
for coming on the show.
00:21:57.307 --> 00:21:58.567
Leah Nurik: Yeah, thanks
for having me, Reid.
00:21:58.567 --> 00:21:59.647
I really appreciate it.
00:21:59.677 --> 00:22:00.577
Have a great day.
00:22:02.173 --> 00:22:05.353
Speaker 2: Want to stay ahead of what's
actually working in marketing right now.
00:22:05.953 --> 00:22:08.143
Head over to Market surge.io
00:22:08.233 --> 00:22:11.953
and see how we're helping businesses
grow smarter, faster, and louder.
00:22:12.433 --> 00:22:14.113
That's market surge.io
00:22:14.413 --> 00:22:16.783
because your next breakthrough
shouldn't be a guess.
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00.210 --> 00:00:02.820
Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.
00:00:03.270 --> 00:00:06.450
Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest
00:00:06.450 --> 00:00:08.280
strategies in the marketing game.
00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:12.420
Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.
00:00:12.666 --> 00:00:13.896
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside
00:00:13.896 --> 00:00:15.246
Marketing with Market Surge.
00:00:15.336 --> 00:00:18.396
Today's guest is someone helping
marketers navigate one of the
00:00:18.396 --> 00:00:21.546
biggest shifts in digital discovery
since the birth of Google.
00:00:21.906 --> 00:00:25.956
Leon Urich is the founder and CEO
of Brandy ai, a platform focused
00:00:25.956 --> 00:00:30.756
on AI visibility and generative
engine optimization, or GEO helping
00:00:30.756 --> 00:00:34.356
brands understand how they appear
inside AI generated answers from
00:00:34.356 --> 00:00:38.556
tools like Chat, GPT Gemini, and
other generative search engines.
00:00:38.966 --> 00:00:43.076
Before launching Brandy Leah built an
incredible career at the intersection
00:00:43.076 --> 00:00:45.386
of technology, pr, and growth marketing.
00:00:45.836 --> 00:00:49.046
Founding Gabriel Marketing
Group, an award-winning agency.
00:00:49.676 --> 00:00:53.786
And earlier in her career, she led
go-to market strategy for Motorola's
00:00:53.786 --> 00:00:57.806
enterprise device business and helped
scale their field mobility applications.
00:00:57.806 --> 00:01:01.046
Unit from 25 million to 250 million.
00:01:01.471 --> 00:01:03.241
In revenue in under five years.
00:01:03.631 --> 00:01:08.791
With over 25 years in B2B tech, marketing,
PR, and SaaS growth, Leah has seen
00:01:08.791 --> 00:01:10.771
multiple waves of marketing disruption.
00:01:10.771 --> 00:01:12.031
We're really excited to hear from you.
00:01:12.031 --> 00:01:13.291
Thanks for joining the show, Leah.
00:01:14.142 --> 00:01:14.562
Leah Nurik: Thanks.
00:01:14.677 --> 00:01:15.757
That was quite the introduction.
00:01:15.757 --> 00:01:16.867
Thanks for having me read.
00:01:17.491 --> 00:01:17.821
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: You bet.
00:01:17.851 --> 00:01:20.771
Well, you know, I find it really pays
to just start on a good note, you
00:01:20.771 --> 00:01:26.001
know, and I like tremendous experience
and we're all feeling good and we're
00:01:26.001 --> 00:01:29.181
gonna have a great conversation, so.
00:01:29.387 --> 00:01:30.087
Leah Nurik: Sounds good.
00:01:31.991 --> 00:01:34.931
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So, at what
point did you realize that AI was
00:01:34.931 --> 00:01:41.031
going to disrupt the online visibility
part of the, the marketing process?
00:01:41.031 --> 00:01:43.941
What, what caught your eye and,
and made you think that that was
00:01:43.941 --> 00:01:46.251
a real opportunity or threat?
00:01:47.792 --> 00:01:51.182
Leah Nurik: So before I founded
you, you mentioned before I
00:01:51.182 --> 00:01:53.572
founded co-founded Brandy.
00:01:53.572 --> 00:01:56.627
I ran an agency for 14
years, and so probably about.
00:01:57.832 --> 00:02:01.882
About a year and a half, two years
ago, two years ago, we started getting
00:02:01.882 --> 00:02:07.402
questions in the sales cycle from some of
our savvy prospects about, okay, if I do
00:02:07.402 --> 00:02:12.882
this, if I hire you for PR or for digital
or content optimization and that kind
00:02:12.882 --> 00:02:17.832
of thing, how is this actually going to
impact the way I come back in AI search?
00:02:18.222 --> 00:02:22.452
And I was like, literally I
don't know, better figure it out.
00:02:22.682 --> 00:02:25.572
So we started trying to figure
it out and I think we, we started
00:02:25.572 --> 00:02:27.852
cracking the code and we're like, ah.
00:02:27.882 --> 00:02:31.812
And it started to just see that,
it wasn't about trying to trick
00:02:31.812 --> 00:02:33.607
the AI or trying to get the.
00:02:34.347 --> 00:02:37.227
Get the AI to do something
that I didn't wanna do.
00:02:37.277 --> 00:02:42.557
But it actually fit so much into our
philosophy and my personal philosophy
00:02:42.557 --> 00:02:47.927
around marketing, around really telling
authentic, credible stories and producing
00:02:47.927 --> 00:02:53.317
really meaningful content that really
connected with the pain points of
00:02:53.317 --> 00:02:56.657
users and really being aligning with.
00:02:57.407 --> 00:03:01.007
With product companies and services
companies that were mission driven
00:03:01.277 --> 00:03:05.137
and that, so I just started to
realize that if you could tell those
00:03:05.137 --> 00:03:09.607
authentic and credible stories and
really come at it from a place of
00:03:09.607 --> 00:03:15.292
authenticity you would win the rush
for you'd win the game against your
00:03:15.292 --> 00:03:18.062
competitors in coming up in AI search.
00:03:18.242 --> 00:03:19.742
And so that's how it started.
00:03:19.742 --> 00:03:21.182
And then we made the product.
00:03:22.486 --> 00:03:22.936
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.
00:03:22.996 --> 00:03:27.976
Well, you know, we've got all levels of
technical expertise among our audience.
00:03:28.396 --> 00:03:32.326
So maybe for those that aren't
super familiar or, or immersed
00:03:32.326 --> 00:03:36.526
in, in this world, what would you
say exactly is generative engine
00:03:36.526 --> 00:03:42.556
optimization and how does it differ
fundamentally from traditional SEO?
00:03:43.597 --> 00:03:43.957
Leah Nurik: Okay.
00:03:44.197 --> 00:03:47.617
Yeah, so generative engine
optimization are the actions
00:03:47.617 --> 00:03:51.417
that you can take, as well as the
process of measuring and monitoring.
00:03:51.847 --> 00:03:57.197
How your brand, whether it's a
personal brand or a product actually
00:03:57.197 --> 00:04:01.127
shows up and is represented within
generative AI search results.
00:04:01.457 --> 00:04:03.497
So that's fundamentally what it is.
00:04:03.497 --> 00:04:08.747
So how do I measure, monitor it, and then
what actions do I take through either.
00:04:10.367 --> 00:04:16.827
or targeting in order to improve how often
that I come back in those recommendations
00:04:16.827 --> 00:04:21.777
or those answers, as well as how do
I influence the answer through my own
00:04:22.047 --> 00:04:26.127
activities, so that's what, how I would
define generative engine optimization.
00:04:26.127 --> 00:04:30.147
And so how, I would say it's different
than traditional SEO where just
00:04:30.147 --> 00:04:34.137
fundamentally SEO or traditional
search was really focused on.
00:04:34.552 --> 00:04:40.232
Showing up as one of those top 10
blue links and requiring a click.
00:04:40.502 --> 00:04:45.632
Now the searcher gets that response
and potentially has your product
00:04:45.632 --> 00:04:47.852
or recommendation in the response.
00:04:49.006 --> 00:04:49.396
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.
00:04:49.756 --> 00:04:53.396
So now given that, and obviously we
know that AI is becoming a bigger
00:04:53.396 --> 00:04:54.866
and bigger part of our lives.
00:04:54.896 --> 00:04:58.586
It's more, you know, we're seeing it
more places, we're using it more often.
00:04:58.986 --> 00:05:03.096
Do you think that we are starting
to see the end of traditional
00:05:03.156 --> 00:05:05.526
search engines and the traditional.
00:05:05.591 --> 00:05:08.711
Search engine approach, you know, the
blue links you refer to, or do you
00:05:08.711 --> 00:05:10.241
think they will continue to coexist?
00:05:11.557 --> 00:05:16.537
Leah Nurik: So that's the million dollar
question, but I think I would parse
00:05:16.537 --> 00:05:19.687
it up a little bit and then I'd love
to hear what you think about it too.
00:05:19.767 --> 00:05:24.517
So if you take the search results
the algorithms have changed.
00:05:24.547 --> 00:05:29.227
So they're not about matching to
words, they're about deciphering
00:05:29.227 --> 00:05:30.787
intent of the searcher.
00:05:31.177 --> 00:05:33.157
So that's fundamentally.
00:05:34.177 --> 00:05:34.567
shift.
00:05:34.567 --> 00:05:39.517
So even if you have a blue link that
comes back, the blue link is not driven
00:05:39.517 --> 00:05:45.287
by keyword matching it's by the LLM
or the algorithm trying to decipher
00:05:45.287 --> 00:05:47.567
what it was that I wanted to find out.
00:05:48.317 --> 00:05:50.297
that's fundamentally different.
00:05:50.567 --> 00:05:54.647
So even if I do have that blue
link is coming up based upon
00:05:54.647 --> 00:05:55.632
different things than it came up.
00:05:56.717 --> 00:06:01.477
That it was picked by years ago, or
three, even 18 months, two years ago.
00:06:01.477 --> 00:06:01.777
Okay.
00:06:02.167 --> 00:06:03.517
So that's one thing.
00:06:03.617 --> 00:06:04.567
So I think that's.
00:06:05.457 --> 00:06:07.017
That's a huge shift.
00:06:07.107 --> 00:06:13.167
That being said, around that were
so important around SEO in general
00:06:13.167 --> 00:06:17.067
that led the algorithm to be able
to return you in the beginning, like
00:06:17.097 --> 00:06:20.277
technical SEO foundations, site speed.
00:06:20.407 --> 00:06:21.757
Are you using your JavaScript?
00:06:21.757 --> 00:06:25.537
Do is it, do you have authority
or do you have category
00:06:25.537 --> 00:06:27.217
alignment in either messaging?
00:06:27.397 --> 00:06:27.997
That kind of thing.
00:06:27.997 --> 00:06:29.077
Those things are still.
00:06:30.487 --> 00:06:34.117
Are so important and will continue to
be, because if you can't be indexed
00:06:34.117 --> 00:06:38.077
or found, if you're not using the
right structure of H ones or H twos or
00:06:38.197 --> 00:06:40.997
whatever, none of it matters for intent.
00:06:41.027 --> 00:06:42.437
So I think that there.
00:06:43.112 --> 00:06:44.492
They're the best bed fellows.
00:06:44.562 --> 00:06:49.772
I think that go and writing and thinking
about writing for and thinking about
00:06:49.772 --> 00:06:55.722
intent and question tax question task
alignment and like prompt site ability and
00:06:55.722 --> 00:07:02.222
understanding how search is different by
providing more directional guidance versus
00:07:02.222 --> 00:07:04.227
it being keyword matching is crucial.
00:07:04.407 --> 00:07:06.902
And so it's just an, it's an evolution.
00:07:06.992 --> 00:07:08.252
It's a very dramatic shift.
00:07:09.002 --> 00:07:14.282
And that is all true, but one
doesn't make the other one obsolete.
00:07:15.182 --> 00:07:15.722
do you think?
00:07:17.056 --> 00:07:19.186
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Well, you
know, of course I'm a little sheepish.
00:07:19.216 --> 00:07:23.266
I, I feel like I'm not quite as
well versed into this as you, but
00:07:23.266 --> 00:07:27.526
I, I would say just at, at a high
level in the, the decades I've
00:07:27.526 --> 00:07:30.046
worked in tech, I with like massive.
00:07:30.286 --> 00:07:31.396
Technology shifts.
00:07:31.396 --> 00:07:37.036
There's such a long tail of adoption
or like this adoption of a big
00:07:37.066 --> 00:07:39.346
technology for a variety of reasons.
00:07:39.806 --> 00:07:46.316
You know, anecdotally like enterprise
tech users and like older generations
00:07:46.586 --> 00:07:50.306
still, like, you know, people I
talk to don't want to touch ai.
00:07:50.306 --> 00:07:52.376
They, you know, they're a
little nervous around it.
00:07:52.376 --> 00:07:54.191
And so I think that it.
00:07:55.001 --> 00:07:56.351
You know, if it is replaced.
00:07:56.351 --> 00:08:01.441
I think it's, it's still a long,
long way before before it is.
00:08:01.441 --> 00:08:06.371
But I, I think that the ai
intelligence is going to need to
00:08:06.371 --> 00:08:11.291
rely on some of the sophistication
that SEO has in, in ranking.
00:08:11.351 --> 00:08:16.071
You know, that's still very valuable
data for them to to process answers.
00:08:16.731 --> 00:08:17.721
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
00:08:17.721 --> 00:08:20.451
But I, I mean, I wanna
hear from the experts.
00:08:21.452 --> 00:08:22.752
Leah Nurik: No, to your
point though, right?
00:08:22.752 --> 00:08:29.922
So like even if I don't adapt or I
don't adopt, Chachi PT or perplexity,
00:08:29.922 --> 00:08:31.212
even if I go to Google today.
00:08:32.147 --> 00:08:33.197
Algorithms change.
00:08:33.257 --> 00:08:37.757
So when I get a response 80% of the
time, I'm gonna get a Google AI overview.
00:08:38.597 --> 00:08:42.577
my 80 plus year old father has spinal
stenosis and he was searching for The
00:08:42.577 --> 00:08:45.427
best sneakers for his spinal stenosis.
00:08:45.907 --> 00:08:50.167
And I was trying to just explain kind of
what Brandy does and that kind of thing.
00:08:50.167 --> 00:08:54.527
And so we were, I was juxtaposing
the Google search environment
00:08:54.527 --> 00:08:55.487
with what I got from chat gt.
00:08:55.787 --> 00:08:58.937
And the answers and the recommendations
were quite similar because it was
00:08:58.997 --> 00:09:01.697
trying to decipher what is my intent.
00:09:02.102 --> 00:09:03.272
In searching for this.
00:09:03.272 --> 00:09:08.182
And so I was still getting an AI summary,
which is motivated or driven or comes
00:09:08.182 --> 00:09:10.522
about because of a revised algorithm.
00:09:10.572 --> 00:09:15.272
Yeah, it's just, if you don't
wanna use it, it's still there.
00:09:18.337 --> 00:09:19.472
You escape.
00:09:19.891 --> 00:09:22.621
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Can't,
well, you know, it's such a behemoth
00:09:22.621 --> 00:09:26.901
and there's so much inertia on it,
you know, hard to just completely
00:09:26.901 --> 00:09:29.031
swap out as fast as AI is moving.
00:09:29.571 --> 00:09:33.741
Now you, you have a, a platform here and
I'd, I'd love to hear about it, you know,
00:09:33.741 --> 00:09:38.541
what, what is your approach and, and
then I've got some follow up questions.
00:09:38.541 --> 00:09:40.821
So maybe could you give us a
little overview of, you know,
00:09:40.821 --> 00:09:43.991
what is Brandy ai and, and you
know, what, what is it used for?
00:09:44.607 --> 00:09:45.117
Leah Nurik: Yeah, sure.
00:09:45.117 --> 00:09:49.647
So Brandy is what we call a generative
engine optimization platform.
00:09:49.647 --> 00:09:56.427
Customers can take a look and see
where it is that their brand is coming
00:09:56.427 --> 00:10:03.817
back and what answers not only if it's
coming back, but why is it coming back?
00:10:04.612 --> 00:10:08.272
Then what different sources
are influencing the answer.
00:10:08.602 --> 00:10:12.452
So it may be your website,
your competitor's website or
00:10:12.452 --> 00:10:17.192
earned media customer review
programs, anything influencers.
00:10:17.192 --> 00:10:23.612
But it gives you that ability to see at a
global level where it, your brand appears.
00:10:24.502 --> 00:10:25.822
driving that?
00:10:25.922 --> 00:10:28.652
Who and what is driving that mention?
00:10:29.072 --> 00:10:32.822
And then beyond that, it, there's
two other components of the product.
00:10:33.002 --> 00:10:34.832
One is, how are you positioned?
00:10:34.832 --> 00:10:37.112
Are you positioned positively, negatively?
00:10:37.112 --> 00:10:39.092
How are you positioned
against your competitors?
00:10:39.482 --> 00:10:41.222
Is there misinformation in there?
00:10:41.222 --> 00:10:43.022
Is it accurate, is it not?
00:10:43.392 --> 00:10:46.692
So you can really see if
you are being positioned the
00:10:46.692 --> 00:10:48.012
way you wanna be positioned.
00:10:48.502 --> 00:10:52.522
And then the third component is a
complete suite, very robust suite
00:10:52.552 --> 00:10:58.402
of optimization tools that enable
you to optimize your web content
00:10:58.652 --> 00:11:03.272
as well as your third party content
performance, marketing pages, et cetera.
00:11:03.572 --> 00:11:09.462
Anything you could possibly publish for
being read interpreted and summarized,
00:11:09.462 --> 00:11:12.372
and then returned in an AI search engine.
00:11:12.792 --> 00:11:15.192
And then it allows you to
track your progress over time.
00:11:15.347 --> 00:11:19.307
So giving you those little micro moments
of delight where there's a marketer,
00:11:19.307 --> 00:11:22.727
you go out and you do something and
you write this blog post and you try
00:11:22.727 --> 00:11:27.717
to target a specific buyer persona or
prompt or whatever it is, and then you
00:11:27.717 --> 00:11:32.547
get to see when it comes back and start
seeing that progress that you're making.
00:11:33.871 --> 00:11:36.746
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So Is this
tool primarily for enterprise users
00:11:36.746 --> 00:11:41.726
that have a massive volume or can it
be also effectively used by like small
00:11:41.726 --> 00:11:45.566
and medium sized businesses that like,
have a local reach that might, they're
00:11:45.566 --> 00:11:50.536
trying to be found for you know,
home service near me type searches.
00:11:50.596 --> 00:11:51.956
what what would you say to that?
00:11:52.287 --> 00:11:53.847
Leah Nurik: It can be
used across the board.
00:11:53.847 --> 00:11:57.537
We have Fortune 500 companies that
are using it at enterprise level
00:11:57.537 --> 00:12:01.377
for multiple different brands and
different industry segments and
00:12:01.377 --> 00:12:03.117
multiple different languages across.
00:12:03.342 --> 00:12:05.652
Geographies that stretch across the globe.
00:12:05.962 --> 00:12:11.162
But then we also have users that have,
three logins or two logins that are
00:12:11.162 --> 00:12:13.082
monitoring a hundred prompts across.
00:12:13.452 --> 00:12:14.742
To AI models.
00:12:14.742 --> 00:12:20.302
So we really have the ability for any
type of organization and honestly in
00:12:20.302 --> 00:12:23.152
any vertical, really any industries.
00:12:23.152 --> 00:12:26.092
We have companies that, large
pharma companies that are using
00:12:26.092 --> 00:12:28.342
the product, large makeup brands.
00:12:28.342 --> 00:12:34.272
And then we have small smaller type
SMBs that are really looking to focus
00:12:34.542 --> 00:12:39.982
like locally and geographically on a
few geographies for, beard grooming.
00:12:43.261 --> 00:12:44.236
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
That sounds awesome.
00:12:44.336 --> 00:12:44.826
The so.
00:12:46.371 --> 00:12:46.941
What now?
00:12:46.986 --> 00:12:51.216
in SEO, you know, we're often trying
to get to page one, to the map pack
00:12:51.216 --> 00:12:54.496
to the number one overall RA ranking.
00:12:54.856 --> 00:12:57.856
What is the equivalent of that in A GEO?
00:12:57.916 --> 00:13:00.796
Like where do you, where do
you hit the success point for
00:13:00.796 --> 00:13:03.226
a certain kind of inquiry?
00:13:03.917 --> 00:13:07.307
Leah Nurik: Yeah, so I would say
that for, if you think about it, like
00:13:07.307 --> 00:13:11.907
information discovery, what are, what's
the best hair clip for people with.
00:13:12.567 --> 00:13:13.287
Thin hair.
00:13:13.737 --> 00:13:14.097
Okay.
00:13:14.757 --> 00:13:17.507
That's a problem that the user has.
00:13:17.507 --> 00:13:21.407
It's not Hey, claral
versus L'Oreal hair clips.
00:13:21.457 --> 00:13:27.187
So it, so you, would you look at that,
like the funnel or the search, type
00:13:27.277 --> 00:13:29.187
progression like the buyer journey.
00:13:29.517 --> 00:13:32.527
And the question is, you would
have multiple KPIs, like, how
00:13:32.527 --> 00:13:35.077
often do I come back in prompts?
00:13:35.902 --> 00:13:37.192
information discovery.
00:13:37.192 --> 00:13:39.442
So how often am I recommended in there?
00:13:39.442 --> 00:13:43.372
And then how often is what I'm
producing actually influencing the
00:13:43.372 --> 00:13:45.922
narrative of that conversation?
00:13:46.142 --> 00:13:49.262
I might have created this hair
clip, and this hair clip has
00:13:49.262 --> 00:13:51.242
redefined what a hair clip is.
00:13:51.242 --> 00:13:53.492
It's made from sustainable materials.
00:13:53.492 --> 00:13:54.812
It never falls out.
00:13:54.812 --> 00:13:55.862
It doesn't crack.
00:13:55.862 --> 00:13:56.627
It's not hard to.
00:13:57.297 --> 00:14:00.447
Maybe if I had arthritis or
something, it's easy to open.
00:14:00.687 --> 00:14:04.527
So I've re, I've come up with what I
believe to be the platonic form of the
00:14:04.527 --> 00:14:06.817
hair clip, very disruptive and exciting.
00:14:06.817 --> 00:14:09.067
It could be that, or new ERP software.
00:14:09.067 --> 00:14:11.647
Very different but similar concept, right?
00:14:11.647 --> 00:14:16.297
So I wanna be found and problem
statements like problem or questions
00:14:16.297 --> 00:14:17.587
that are looking to solve a problem.
00:14:17.932 --> 00:14:23.002
So I would say, how often is my company
coming back and being recommended when
00:14:23.002 --> 00:14:26.662
somebody's asking this information
discovery question in which they're
00:14:26.662 --> 00:14:27.772
trying to solve their problem?
00:14:28.612 --> 00:14:33.892
I may also say, how often is my
website or my own, or the marketing
00:14:33.892 --> 00:14:39.472
activities that I'm doing influencing
that conversation to redefine the.
00:14:40.527 --> 00:14:43.287
of what a hair clip is according
to my view of the world.
00:14:43.707 --> 00:14:47.247
And then I might also look at
what's my share of voice compared
00:14:47.247 --> 00:14:49.137
with competitors in AI search.
00:14:49.467 --> 00:14:51.177
So am I winning the conversation?
00:14:51.177 --> 00:14:54.117
Am I dominating it over my competitor?
00:14:55.197 --> 00:14:58.947
and then also how is
it that I'm positioned?
00:14:58.947 --> 00:15:00.417
Is it positive and negative?
00:15:00.727 --> 00:15:03.127
And then am I able to influence that?
00:15:04.716 --> 00:15:05.206
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.
00:15:05.966 --> 00:15:10.386
So now given that, is
there low hanging fruit?
00:15:10.686 --> 00:15:13.866
Say a company just, you know, like
where, where do I start if I want
00:15:13.866 --> 00:15:16.956
to increase my AI visibility today?
00:15:16.956 --> 00:15:22.476
Like maybe are there common things you're
seeing over and over again that they're
00:15:22.476 --> 00:15:28.466
doing well in other areas of marketing,
but just not ranking in AI search at all?
00:15:28.796 --> 00:15:31.496
What, what are some of those,
those low hanging fruits so
00:15:31.496 --> 00:15:33.206
they could take advantage of?
00:15:33.472 --> 00:15:35.872
Leah Nurik: so earned media is huge.
00:15:35.962 --> 00:15:40.462
So earned media pull gets cited
a ton in AI search results.
00:15:40.882 --> 00:15:42.712
But that can take time getting.
00:15:43.392 --> 00:15:46.242
Getting on your show or getting,
and on the front page of the
00:15:46.242 --> 00:15:47.382
Wall Street Journal, right?
00:15:47.382 --> 00:15:53.112
It takes time, but earned media makes
can really move the needle for GEO.
00:15:53.452 --> 00:15:58.192
The other thing is that if you have
good SEO bones and you fundamentally,
00:15:58.192 --> 00:16:01.822
you invested in traditional digital and
you've got good domain authority, and
00:16:01.822 --> 00:16:06.562
you have all those things, one of the
things and core things you can do is start
00:16:06.562 --> 00:16:08.902
producing more content, but not just.
00:16:09.682 --> 00:16:13.792
Not crap, like not ai, slop,
real good, meaningful content.
00:16:14.122 --> 00:16:17.872
So Brandy has, is built on a very
deep intelligence layer that actually
00:16:17.872 --> 00:16:22.132
identifies what people within
your market are struggling with.
00:16:22.132 --> 00:16:24.412
What are their triggers,
emotional triggers, why do
00:16:24.412 --> 00:16:25.822
they buy, why don't they buy?
00:16:26.122 --> 00:16:28.372
What are the most common complaints?
00:16:28.372 --> 00:16:30.802
And it does this through a
sophisticated listening engine.
00:16:31.672 --> 00:16:35.662
what it does is also recommends like
what are the right types of content
00:16:35.692 --> 00:16:39.862
for you to produce, like whether it's
blog or social posts and 'cause AI
00:16:39.862 --> 00:16:41.572
tends to like certain types of content.
00:16:41.842 --> 00:16:45.772
So if you follow the prescriptions within
Brandy by producing your own content,
00:16:46.102 --> 00:16:52.392
your own owned content, then most
likely you'll start to see a big needle.
00:16:52.812 --> 00:16:54.522
But there are a couple of hacks.
00:16:54.712 --> 00:16:57.712
And when I say hacks, I
don't mean any trickery.
00:16:57.712 --> 00:16:59.602
We're definitely not
promoting any trickery.
00:16:59.632 --> 00:17:02.392
But, one of the things you can do is.
00:17:03.177 --> 00:17:07.437
You can put out press releases that
tell your authentic, credible story.
00:17:07.657 --> 00:17:10.567
But it does it in a way that
it goes out over the wire.
00:17:10.757 --> 00:17:13.637
For example, some of the
wires tend to pro, tend to get
00:17:13.637 --> 00:17:15.317
picked up by AI very quickly.
00:17:15.527 --> 00:17:19.007
So if you structure a press release in
the right way and you start doing like
00:17:19.007 --> 00:17:23.707
kind of non-traditional press releases,
things that are more like trend oriented
00:17:23.767 --> 00:17:27.217
or point of views or things like that.
00:17:27.247 --> 00:17:31.037
And you put them out on the wire
and you structure them in a very
00:17:31.037 --> 00:17:34.457
specific way which you could use
Brandy to do because Brandy does
00:17:34.487 --> 00:17:36.737
optimization or press releases then.
00:17:37.442 --> 00:17:40.182
You'll start to see a Moodle
the needle move very quickly.
00:17:40.482 --> 00:17:45.182
I I ran a couple tests myself
on our brandy product and,
00:17:45.212 --> 00:17:47.292
or like on the, as a test.
00:17:47.542 --> 00:17:51.522
And I saw that based upon the wire
services that we were using, we saw that.
00:17:51.657 --> 00:17:54.867
We started getting cited for some of
those questions, like almost like within
00:17:54.867 --> 00:17:57.097
a day or two for those specific prompts.
00:17:57.097 --> 00:18:00.577
So that's a nice low hanging
fruit thing that you can do, but
00:18:00.727 --> 00:18:03.337
it has to be optimized correctly
with the right structure.
00:18:04.336 --> 00:18:04.626
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.
00:18:05.096 --> 00:18:05.696
Fantastic.
00:18:06.806 --> 00:18:13.166
Overall, what kinds of skills do marketers
need to I mean, are there different
00:18:13.166 --> 00:18:17.186
skills that marketers are going to need
to emphasize in the next few years?
00:18:18.026 --> 00:18:23.926
Kind of based on your, your experience
you know, going deep into GEO would
00:18:23.926 --> 00:18:28.666
you say marketers need to emphasize
something else, need to retool?
00:18:28.906 --> 00:18:30.676
What do you think about
that for the next few years?
00:18:31.362 --> 00:18:36.552
Leah Nurik: I think AI in general is
just across the entire work environment
00:18:36.552 --> 00:18:43.842
is shifting things in the sense of the
people who will do the best are the ones.
00:18:44.547 --> 00:18:47.157
Who can straddle multiple different roles.
00:18:48.477 --> 00:18:51.587
if I even just take it outta
marketing and I look let's keep it
00:18:51.587 --> 00:18:52.727
in marketing, product marketing.
00:18:52.787 --> 00:18:53.117
Okay.
00:18:53.397 --> 00:18:57.837
The product marketer who can,
instead of trying to just.
00:18:59.202 --> 00:19:01.512
put the button over here
because this is important.
00:19:01.782 --> 00:19:06.272
Goes to lovable and can figure out how
to talk to lovable, to mock up their
00:19:06.272 --> 00:19:09.722
dream of what they want the product,
new product features to look like.
00:19:10.112 --> 00:19:12.602
That's not something product
marketing used to do.
00:19:12.672 --> 00:19:16.572
Product marketing would focus
on messaging, it would focus on
00:19:16.572 --> 00:19:19.577
driving, trying to drive consensus
with product management, but now
00:19:19.577 --> 00:19:21.917
they can walk into a product meeting
and say, this is what I mean.
00:19:22.347 --> 00:19:26.492
And that's a very, and that's an
I came from product marketing, so
00:19:26.492 --> 00:19:28.022
to me that's just, mind blowing.
00:19:28.072 --> 00:19:30.622
But and what, so when it comes
to more traditional marketers
00:19:30.672 --> 00:19:31.752
I think it's the same thing.
00:19:31.872 --> 00:19:35.832
The tactical digital strategist
who now needs to think about, okay,
00:19:36.282 --> 00:19:40.272
content isn't just about putting
the key word in there five times.
00:19:40.632 --> 00:19:46.902
The content really has to connect with
intent, the problems that person has.
00:19:47.502 --> 00:19:51.642
How do they, so now is that person
straddling more of like the content
00:19:51.642 --> 00:19:56.142
studio that used to be in the organization
the content strategist person who might
00:19:56.142 --> 00:20:01.422
have been focused on just on, on writing
content solely now is looking at okay, now
00:20:01.422 --> 00:20:06.042
I might have to go across and start really
looking at the impact of pr, not just.
00:20:06.717 --> 00:20:11.157
Approving the press releases or helping to
restructure the press releases, but I need
00:20:11.157 --> 00:20:14.367
to really understand what earned media is.
00:20:14.667 --> 00:20:20.007
So I think it's really about, one of the
things that's cool about generative engine
00:20:20.007 --> 00:20:22.707
optimization is that it brings together.
00:20:23.122 --> 00:20:28.192
All of these different disciplines,
and it allows a marketing leader and
00:20:28.192 --> 00:20:33.802
strategist to bring together everybody
in one platform to see the impact.
00:20:34.282 --> 00:20:38.782
So pro we have users in our product,
marketing, content people, digital
00:20:38.782 --> 00:20:45.082
people, PR people, and then agencies
that are logging into the same platform
00:20:45.382 --> 00:20:49.882
and utilizing it all for unique
work functions underneath marketing.
00:20:50.122 --> 00:20:51.112
And that to me is.
00:20:52.162 --> 00:20:56.762
'cause it takes traditionally siloed
disciplines, brings them together and then
00:20:56.762 --> 00:21:03.392
gives leadership the ability to report out
of all of that and see the impact across.
00:21:03.392 --> 00:21:06.002
And we all know that when it
comes to collaboration, one
00:21:06.002 --> 00:21:08.342
plus one doesn't equal two.
00:21:08.342 --> 00:21:10.922
It is usually exponentially higher.
00:21:12.031 --> 00:21:12.301
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.
00:21:12.361 --> 00:21:13.111
Absolutely.
00:21:14.071 --> 00:21:18.071
Well, Leah, this is really
great to hear your perspective.
00:21:18.071 --> 00:21:24.521
I, I think it's a, a frontier that
excites and frightens and, you know, it
00:21:24.521 --> 00:21:28.601
raises a lot of questions and you know,
I appreciate all that, that you shared.
00:21:28.811 --> 00:21:33.701
If people would like to work with
you you know, work with, use brandy
00:21:33.701 --> 00:21:37.341
or, I mean, who knows even have
you as a future podcast guest,
00:21:37.371 --> 00:21:40.851
where, where can you be found or
what links would you like to share?
00:21:41.867 --> 00:21:42.167
Leah Nurik: Cool.
00:21:42.167 --> 00:21:43.187
Yeah, no thanks Reid.
00:21:43.237 --> 00:21:45.967
You can find us@mybrandy.ai
00:21:45.967 --> 00:21:49.597
and you can find me on
LinkedIn at Leah Gabriel Nric.
00:21:49.867 --> 00:21:53.797
Or you can navigate to me from
our Brandy AI LinkedIn page.
00:21:54.306 --> 00:21:54.916
Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Fantastic.
00:21:54.946 --> 00:21:56.741
Well, thank you so much
for coming on the show.
00:21:57.307 --> 00:21:58.567
Leah Nurik: Yeah, thanks
for having me, Reid.
00:21:58.567 --> 00:21:59.647
I really appreciate it.
00:21:59.677 --> 00:22:00.577
Have a great day.
00:22:02.173 --> 00:22:05.353
Speaker 2: Want to stay ahead of what's
actually working in marketing right now.
00:22:05.953 --> 00:22:08.143
Head over to Market surge.io
00:22:08.233 --> 00:22:11.953
and see how we're helping businesses
grow smarter, faster, and louder.
00:22:12.433 --> 00:22:14.113
That's market surge.io
00:22:14.413 --> 00:22:16.783
because your next breakthrough
shouldn't be a guess.
