00:00:00
Speaker 1: So National's Christopher Luxon, as you've probably heard, he's been with Mike Hosking for the past couple of hours for the pre-election leaders' breakfast. And he's in the middle, isn't he, of this vote-splitting tussle with New Zealand First and ACT, with National's current coalition partners, asking voters to give them their party vote and their electorate vote to National. And Luxon wasn't holding back this morning. telling voters not to listen to what ACT and New Zealand First are telling them to do.
00:00:34
Speaker 2: It is a campaign to expand ACT and New Zealand First party vote, period, right?
00:00:37
Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with that. That's what a campaign's for.
00:00:39
Speaker 2: But then you've got to form a coalition, and I want that coalition to be dominated with the National Party.
00:00:43
Speaker 3: You can't possibly be telling me you are fearful that the National Party vote will fall below ACT and New Zealand First, can you? Or can you?
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying I want that to be as maximised as possible.
00:00:55
Speaker 3: From your point of view, I understand that. But you're confusing people by suggesting that a party vote for ACT or New Zealand First can bring Labour through the middle. It can do no such thing. A party vote for ACT or New Zealand First or National is a vote for the right bloc. Therefore, Labour gains in no way, shape or form.
00:01:12
Speaker 2: Okay, but then also.
00:01:13
Speaker 3: Do you accept that or not?
00:01:14
Speaker 2: Well, what I accept is a coalition is also a casting and a complementary casting and chemistry that's needed in a coalition to make it work.
00:01:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you weren't saying that.
00:01:22
Speaker 2: I made that work.
00:01:22
Speaker 3: You weren't saying that.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: Well, I made it work for three years. I'm just saying to you, I want that to be as big an anchor block as possible with National Party people there.
00:01:30
Speaker 1: As you heard there, Mike pointed out to him that his talk about the vote splitting doing favours for Labour is nonsense because whether you vote... Think about it. Whether you vote for National... ACT or New Zealand First, you'll still get your centre-right coalition, unless Winston Peters does some sort of last-minute carry-on and goes with Labour. I don't know if that'll happen again, but Mike suggested to Christopher Luxon that it was not a good look having the three coalition partners scrapping with each other in public, which is exactly what.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: They're doing, and it isn't a good look. It's a bad look. Anyway, here's what he said about that.
00:02:04
Speaker 2: I'm just making it very clear to the New Zealand people, look, don't complicate this thing. You can play games all day long as to how you might want to do your strategic voting, whatever. There's no need for any of that stuff. At the end of the day, we've got a really good policy programme. We've laid that out really clearly. And I mean this genuinely. I wish someone would just literally take person on person, look at my team of ministers that I've built over the last three years and put them up against the alternatives on the other side and say, you sure as hell don't want someone else other than that person doing that job. You don't want someone being Minister of Police other than Mark Mitch. We don't want someone other than Todd McClay being out there being Minister of Trade, or Erica Stanford on education, or Nicola Willis sort of finances it.
00:02:42
Speaker 3: Well, they might, and that's what an election campaign's about.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: Well, that's what they, but they understand what you're doing.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Then we got to the elephant in the room, and Mike wanted to know why the National Party caucus tried twice this year to get rid of him. I think when there's disunity or there's any issues potentially in a team, what I've learned from my former life is that you front those things, and that's what I did in both those cases. And so- You know, where there was any unhappiness or whatever it may have been.
00:03:08
Speaker 3: What was it? Why was there unhappiness? Why was there disgruntlement? But I mean, but what was it about you and your leadership that led to an unnecessary amount of distraction?
00:03:19
Speaker 2: Well, look, I think, you know, the reality is, you know, people had, you know, there was two instances, as you know. In both those cases, we get in the room, we discuss it, and that's all I wanted to do. And I believe in that very strongly.
00:03:32
Speaker 3: But what was their problem?
00:03:33
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm not going to go into that because there was caucus conversations and what stays in caucus stays in caucus. But the bottom line is I'm a person who believes you should front that stuff. I think if you get any rumour, if you're hearing anything that's of dissent or anyone that's not happy, get in the room and have a real conversation with each other about it and sort it out. Because you've got to remember, I came into a national party after a second worst result in 2020. I dealt with a situation where I had to bring a party together that had factionalised terribly, and those things with a left to fester and to go places, that's not a good place, and disunity is death in politics.
00:04:06
Speaker 3: Were you disappointed that they couldn't see what you were seeing?
00:04:09
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it doesn't matter what I think about it personally. Actually, I've just got to fix it.
00:04:13
Speaker 1: Now, my take on the last two hours is that I thought Christopher Luxon didn't sound his usual self. I mean, anyone could be forgiven for being and sounding tired after such a long campaign, but I didn't think he sounded his usual energise a bunny this morning. I also think that this vote-splitting row will be doing National no favours. And I think people will be thinking twice about National Act of New Zealand First being able to hold it together for another three years.
Speaker 1: So National's Christopher Luxon, as you've probably heard, he's been with Mike Hosking for the past couple of hours for the pre-election leaders' breakfast. And he's in the middle, isn't he, of this vote-splitting tussle with New Zealand First and ACT, with National's current coalition partners, asking voters to give them their party vote and their electorate vote to National. And Luxon wasn't holding back this morning. telling voters not to listen to what ACT and New Zealand First are telling them to do.
00:00:34
Speaker 2: It is a campaign to expand ACT and New Zealand First party vote, period, right?
00:00:37
Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with that. That's what a campaign's for.
00:00:39
Speaker 2: But then you've got to form a coalition, and I want that coalition to be dominated with the National Party.
00:00:43
Speaker 3: You can't possibly be telling me you are fearful that the National Party vote will fall below ACT and New Zealand First, can you? Or can you?
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying I want that to be as maximised as possible.
00:00:55
Speaker 3: From your point of view, I understand that. But you're confusing people by suggesting that a party vote for ACT or New Zealand First can bring Labour through the middle. It can do no such thing. A party vote for ACT or New Zealand First or National is a vote for the right bloc. Therefore, Labour gains in no way, shape or form.
00:01:12
Speaker 2: Okay, but then also.
00:01:13
Speaker 3: Do you accept that or not?
00:01:14
Speaker 2: Well, what I accept is a coalition is also a casting and a complementary casting and chemistry that's needed in a coalition to make it work.
00:01:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you weren't saying that.
00:01:22
Speaker 2: I made that work.
00:01:22
Speaker 3: You weren't saying that.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: Well, I made it work for three years. I'm just saying to you, I want that to be as big an anchor block as possible with National Party people there.
00:01:30
Speaker 1: As you heard there, Mike pointed out to him that his talk about the vote splitting doing favours for Labour is nonsense because whether you vote... Think about it. Whether you vote for National... ACT or New Zealand First, you'll still get your centre-right coalition, unless Winston Peters does some sort of last-minute carry-on and goes with Labour. I don't know if that'll happen again, but Mike suggested to Christopher Luxon that it was not a good look having the three coalition partners scrapping with each other in public, which is exactly what.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: They're doing, and it isn't a good look. It's a bad look. Anyway, here's what he said about that.
00:02:04
Speaker 2: I'm just making it very clear to the New Zealand people, look, don't complicate this thing. You can play games all day long as to how you might want to do your strategic voting, whatever. There's no need for any of that stuff. At the end of the day, we've got a really good policy programme. We've laid that out really clearly. And I mean this genuinely. I wish someone would just literally take person on person, look at my team of ministers that I've built over the last three years and put them up against the alternatives on the other side and say, you sure as hell don't want someone else other than that person doing that job. You don't want someone being Minister of Police other than Mark Mitch. We don't want someone other than Todd McClay being out there being Minister of Trade, or Erica Stanford on education, or Nicola Willis sort of finances it.
00:02:42
Speaker 3: Well, they might, and that's what an election campaign's about.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: Well, that's what they, but they understand what you're doing.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Then we got to the elephant in the room, and Mike wanted to know why the National Party caucus tried twice this year to get rid of him. I think when there's disunity or there's any issues potentially in a team, what I've learned from my former life is that you front those things, and that's what I did in both those cases. And so- You know, where there was any unhappiness or whatever it may have been.
00:03:08
Speaker 3: What was it? Why was there unhappiness? Why was there disgruntlement? But I mean, but what was it about you and your leadership that led to an unnecessary amount of distraction?
00:03:19
Speaker 2: Well, look, I think, you know, the reality is, you know, people had, you know, there was two instances, as you know. In both those cases, we get in the room, we discuss it, and that's all I wanted to do. And I believe in that very strongly.
00:03:32
Speaker 3: But what was their problem?
00:03:33
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm not going to go into that because there was caucus conversations and what stays in caucus stays in caucus. But the bottom line is I'm a person who believes you should front that stuff. I think if you get any rumour, if you're hearing anything that's of dissent or anyone that's not happy, get in the room and have a real conversation with each other about it and sort it out. Because you've got to remember, I came into a national party after a second worst result in 2020. I dealt with a situation where I had to bring a party together that had factionalised terribly, and those things with a left to fester and to go places, that's not a good place, and disunity is death in politics.
00:04:06
Speaker 3: Were you disappointed that they couldn't see what you were seeing?
00:04:09
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it doesn't matter what I think about it personally. Actually, I've just got to fix it.
00:04:13
Speaker 1: Now, my take on the last two hours is that I thought Christopher Luxon didn't sound his usual self. I mean, anyone could be forgiven for being and sounding tired after such a long campaign, but I didn't think he sounded his usual energise a bunny this morning. I also think that this vote-splitting row will be doing National no favours. And I think people will be thinking twice about National Act of New Zealand First being able to hold it together for another three years.
