WEBVTT
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Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
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which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
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the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
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resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
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I'm Mark McNacken, and my co -hosts Ron Brandt
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and I are joined today by Kluane Adamek, Chair
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of the Indigenous Advisory Council. to Canada's
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Major Projects Office. The 11 -member national
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body Prime Minister Mark Carney appointed to
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guide how major resource and infrastructure projects
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move through the federal system. Since Carney
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launched the office in August 2025, it has referred
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15 nation -building projects worth more than
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$125 billion Canadian dollars. Tiwane served
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as Assembly of First Nations Yukon Regional Chief
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from 2018 to 2025. leading their national follows
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on climate, environment, and water before stepping
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into this new advisory role. In the first of
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two conversations, she sets out why a nation's
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answer of yes, but not right now, is a planning
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signal rather than a rejection, why relationship
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and shared information do more than speed to
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shorten a project's path to certainty, and where
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her council's advice actually carries weight.
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Welcome to Drumbeats. It's a pleasure to have
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you here. Thank you so much, Mark. I'm really
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happy to be here. Hey, Kluane. Great to see you.
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Thanks for doing this. Yeah, I'm really happy
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to be here. Well, it's a great honor to have
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you here. And as you know, we have listeners
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from around the world, primarily from the UK
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over here and from the continent. Can you just
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describe, first of all, where you are? And also
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then about yourself and a little bit about your
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experience growing up and where you've landed
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today, because you're in some very important
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roles. Yeah, thank you so much. And really looking
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forward to having a conversation. My name is
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Kluane Adamek. My Tlingit name is Age. And I
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am from Kluane First Nation, which is in the
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southwest Yukon, all very Google -able. But there
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is a lot of really neat research, actually, that
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takes place in my territory. Of course, this
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is a photo of Kluane Lake, a very special place,
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of course, to our people, but also to me as well.
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I have on my father's side Tlingit and Southern
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Tshoni ancestry, and on my mom's. mix of settler
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Canadians, so actually Scottish and Irish and
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German. So a really interesting blend, I would
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say, in terms of all the different histories
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and the lineages that I come from. I have a three
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-year -old daughter named Tayanna Copperjane.
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And what's special about Tayanna is... I knew
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I always wanted to be a mom. And I was in an
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elected position as the regional chief at the
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time. And sort of, you know, the reality for
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women, of course, is there is a set period of
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time that you have. And so I had my daughter
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at 37. And it was at that point after I had her
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where I had this moment of, how am I best contributing?
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You know, most importantly, how am I best contributing
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to? her and supporting her and her world, and
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also able to continue to contribute to community
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and the region and First Nations broadly. And
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so at that point, my partner and I made the decision
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that that would be my last term. So I served
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for nearly eight years as the regional chief
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and have since stepped into some spaces that
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I was in, I would say, more engaged in earlier
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in my career. So I was on our board for economic
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development, corporation, and I did an MBA at
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SFU. And so at the end of my term, I was appointed
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by Prime Minister Carney to the Indigenous Advisory
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Council to the major projects office. And so
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that's been where a lot of my contributions have
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been leaning towards. And this This conversation
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around, you know, building strong, building better.
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And the work that I contributed to as regional
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chief was to lead the environment and water stewardship
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files. And so I've always felt there's always
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been this sort of, in my view, this perhaps rhetoric
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around the environment or major projects, the
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environment or let's drive the economy. I don't
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see it that way. I never really have. And I feel
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like for a lot of Indigenous peoples, there's
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a lot of challenge when we're not balancing the
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environment and driving the economy through major
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projects or infrastructure development. But when
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things are in balance, it can work really well.
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And so that has been... in the last year or so,
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the space that I've welcomed in my world and
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really happy to join the Indigenous Advisory
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Council. There's 11 of us. I'm currently serving
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as the chair and my co -chair, Vanessa Doig,
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who's Enoch. And so it's just a depth and breadth
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and wealth of knowledge on the council. And so
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I've been really enjoying that. Yes. Well, thank
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you for that. And thank you for sharing your
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background for us. And I think we've had this
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discussed with a number of guests. And we talked
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earlier, Southern Canadians versus Canadians
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from further north, which is so important to
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Canada these days. And there's an announcement
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that's just come out. Today in the news that
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I'm sure you've had some visibility of in terms
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of Canada has chosen to partner with the German
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manufacturer of submarines, which is the first
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significant investment in defense Canada has
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made in strategic because many people forget
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we're a three nation, we're a three ocean country.
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Yeah, good point. The Arctic has been forgotten
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for a long time. And historically, though, the
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Yukon has played an absolutely critical role.
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in the defense of Canada, going back to World
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War II or going back to prior to that with the
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acquisition by the Americans of the Russian territory
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on North America at the time. So Yukon has always
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been kind of an anchor for the country. And we
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now have this moment forward where defense is
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coming back to be an important part, but circle
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back to what you were talking about, about when
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it all comes together. And I think this is the
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real exceptional opportunity Canada has because
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Canada is reinventing itself as a country. As
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you know, under Prime Minister Carney and what's
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happened south of the border, we've had to reinvent
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our outlook for the future because it's changed
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dramatically. And fortunately, at this point
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in time, the Indigenous people have a voice.
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Indigenous people are in leadership positions
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across the country. There's some strong... organizations,
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Desnetti, for example, out of Saskatchewan, who
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are participating in these major decisions. So
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it's really an inflection point. And as you talked
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about just on your own individual journey, it
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was how could you best contribute? And here you
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are now chair of the Indigenous Advisory Council
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for the Major Project Coalition. So first of
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all, congratulations on all that you've achieved
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so far. And you have a leadership role that affects
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all Canadians. really interesting story. So thank
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you for being with us on the podcast. Thanks,
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Mark. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm like,
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let's jump in. Let's go there. Yes. Okay, well,
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we got to come back to your TED Women 2020 talk
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on Yukon matriarchs. And I understand it's been
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watched by over 1 .4 million times, which is
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a lot of people watching. And that must have
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been quite a platform and recognition. for women
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across Canada and for Indigenous women in particular?
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I think that's where a lot of, when I recall
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when I was first elected and sort of showing
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up in spaces and feeling that discord perhaps
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in just generally, not just how I was perhaps
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treated, but other women who are in the space.
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It is a very different worldview when you're
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coming from a space where women have always been
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included in decision making, have been advising
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the decision makers or directing the decision
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makers. It's very different than when you're
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coming from a more Western colonial worldview
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where has been largely centered around men and
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sort of. patriarchal roles of significance. And
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so that's where in the Yukon, we have a clan
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system, an animal clan system. And so you are
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born into your clan through your mother. And
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for myself, having a non -Indigenous mother,
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I was adopted, which is an incredibly important,
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a significant moment in one's life where the
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clan includes you. And so that... Sense of identity
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and connection and responsibility is one that
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you don't carry lightly. And that is where when
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showing up in other spaces and particularly,
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you know, political spaces. But now that I'm
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in more sort of industry, a lot of conversations
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with industry partners, a lot of conversations
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with rights holders. there is a bit of a rub.
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And so that TED Talk was really to help people
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understand that, you know, first of all, leadership
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is a responsibility, not a status. And that when
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it comes to matriarchy, this is a term you're
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seeing a lot of young Indigenous people starting
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to talk about, you know, the matriarchy is back,
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there's a matriarchy movement. But it really
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is about holding up the space for women to not
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only be included, but to be the decision makers.
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And women in so many Yukon First Nations communities
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and communities across the country have always
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been in those positions. It's sort of now we're
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re -acknowledging that that is the case and that
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needs to be so. And so that was really what the
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TED Talk was about. And I hope people took something
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away from that. I hope they... Listen to the
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story I shared about resilience and continuity.
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And that is something that I often go back to
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in moments where I feel ungrounded or need to
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remind myself why I'm doing what I'm doing. So
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that is perhaps we could probably talk a whole
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podcast episode on it. But for Cole's Notes version,
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yeah, that was a really special moment. Wow.
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And I think one of the things in terms of the
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leadership that you're providing at the moment,
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you have this ongoing commitment to learning
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and development, which is always a sign of a
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great leader. You've completed your MBA, executive
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MBA in indigenous business leadership at Simon
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Fraser's Beattie School in BC. You're completing
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the Institute of Corporate Directors designation
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or just completed? Yeah. Another one under your
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belt. Wow. And look at the positions you're holding.
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So what drew you to formalize that education
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experience given all the learnings you had? You
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had the on -the -job experience. You were providing
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those leadership roles. What added value do you
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think that brings to you and that other people
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should be considering? You know, when I think
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about particularly the listeners that you have
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across the pond, so to speak, but here in Canada
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and beyond, growing up on both sides of my family,
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education was always sort of a non -negotiable.
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It didn't matter what it was that you decided
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to pursue, but that you would there was an expectation
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that you would further your education. And, you
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know, my grandmother, residential school survivor
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at a certain period of time, illegal for her
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to go to university. You know, my aunts and uncles,
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one of my aunts went later in life, but I was
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definitely one of the first in my family to pursue
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and to complete my undergraduate degree. And
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my mom, neither of my grandparents. My parents
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went to university. My grandfather immigrated
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from Germany after the Second World War and had
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a grade eight education and was able to sort
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of really navigate. He worked for the governor
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of the Bank of Canada. That's like a whole other
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story. But like this whole space around education
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and a responsibility to learn and to grow was
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always there for me. Kind of in my own life,
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it's sort of been every 10 years, every 10 years,
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I've told myself I'm going to do something. I'm
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going to go back. I'm going to either relearn
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or learn new. And so the yeah, the the undergrad,
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the MBA and and the ICD and what I put on a bit
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of a back burner, which I haven't shared widely,
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but will share here is I was accepted into a
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Ph .D. program for this year and then sort of
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said those moments where. There can be so many
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opportunities, right, in one's lifetime, but
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it's always about timing, right? And so how do
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you make sure that the contributions and where
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you use your time is going to best suit your
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priorities? And of course, having a little girl,
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that's my first. My second is, of course, contributing
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to my region. And then third, how do I? you know,
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bring that experience to support rights holders
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across the country and beyond. So I'll come back.
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I'll come back to the PhD at some point. UConn's
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also starting a law school, which has kind of
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piqued my interest a bit. I was going to go and
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then didn't at another point in my life. So it
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is, it really is about, you know. Education,
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prosperity and responsibility, in my view, are
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all pieces that go hand in hand. And because
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for both of my grandparents, they never had the
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opportunity. My mom, the first in my family as
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a single parent to go to university. and able
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to be resourced, it's kind of like, why not?
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Like, this is an opportunity for not only for
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me, but for other people in my community or my
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daughter to see their parents continuing to pursue
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education. Yes. And I think one of the interesting
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things, thank you for sharing that. And I thought
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you're going to say in the PhD program, you're
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working on the weekends. I thought, wow. But
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.820
I think one of the things this demonstrates for
00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:53.580
those who haven't been investing in Canada recently
00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:56.740
or now re -looking at it is the indigenous people
00:15:56.740 --> 00:16:01.940
are seizing the opportunities that were denied
00:16:01.940 --> 00:16:05.799
for so long. And as the country is reinventing
00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:07.820
itself, the indigenous people, as we've just
00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:11.080
talked about, have reclaimed and are reclaiming
00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.620
their rightful place in the leadership and the
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:15.799
development of the country. It's kind of the
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.139
attitude you bring because we've come across,
00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:19.960
you know, if you're choosing a partner today
00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:23.960
in Canada, forget about the rights holders issue
00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.559
that you have to deal with rights holders. Some
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.940
of the partners you want to choose to work with
00:16:28.940 --> 00:16:32.440
are Indigenous -led or Indigenous companies because
00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.679
they are hungry and out fighting because they've
00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.980
been so long oppressed and held back. Now that
00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:42.049
this moment has come. You know, we see that coming
00:16:42.049 --> 00:16:45.389
through in terms of the competitive spirit. If
00:16:45.389 --> 00:16:47.169
we talk about the animal spirits coming back
00:16:47.169 --> 00:16:49.690
to the clan system, you also see those animal
00:16:49.690 --> 00:16:51.889
spirits that we like to talk about in the UK
00:16:51.889 --> 00:16:55.470
reinvigorating the Canadian economy because you're
00:16:55.470 --> 00:16:59.350
shaking it up because you have a long -term view,
00:16:59.549 --> 00:17:01.710
the Indigenous people, that they bring to projects.
00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:04.089
It's not how do we buy something and flip it.
00:17:04.230 --> 00:17:06.210
It's we're going to live with this, so how do
00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:07.990
we do it in the right way so it's sustainable?
00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:10.970
plus provide those long -term returns for our
00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:15.809
community and for the country. So maybe we just
00:17:15.809 --> 00:17:18.190
pivot from there and talk a little bit. September
00:17:18.190 --> 00:17:20.210
25, you were appointed by Prime Minister Carney
00:17:20.210 --> 00:17:22.349
to the new Indigenous Advisory Council for the
00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:25.690
Major Projects Office. And for listeners who
00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:28.990
have not been following closely, can you talk
00:17:28.990 --> 00:17:31.150
a little bit about what the council is and what
00:17:31.150 --> 00:17:36.230
the MPO is, what exactly you're being asked to
00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:38.519
do? Because on the other hand, there's... 600
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.539
plus chiefs around the country who all have their
00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:46.380
perspective, too. Yeah, I mean, the first thing
00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:52.339
I'll say is it was definitely a surprise to myself
00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:56.519
and, you know, wasn't, you know, didn't know
00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:58.480
who else would be on the council when this sort
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.079
of all happened. I also was still in my elected
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.990
office and so had to qualify. You know, I. is
00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:08.910
this a me thing as a Kluane or is this a, you
00:18:08.910 --> 00:18:11.269
need, you're interested in sort of the role thing.
00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:16.029
And so once all those pieces came to light and
00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:20.150
were solidified and after speaking to some leaders
00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:23.289
in my region, I decided that it was a really
00:18:23.289 --> 00:18:26.450
important place to, to step into, to contribute
00:18:26.450 --> 00:18:31.970
to. It was new, but that there's so much around,
00:18:32.170 --> 00:18:37.720
you know, improving not only their relationship
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.660
and the process policy legislation, but ultimately.
00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:46.369
The livelihood of First Nations people and knowing
00:18:46.369 --> 00:18:50.829
that there would be a space to ensure that, you
00:18:50.829 --> 00:18:53.750
know, northern considerations would be would
00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:56.849
be at the table. I come from a modern treaty
00:18:56.849 --> 00:18:59.670
nation. And so that those perspectives could
00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:02.690
be shared. And of course, the invaluable experience
00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:04.809
serving as regional chief and working with First
00:19:04.809 --> 00:19:07.789
Nations right across the country in various files.
00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:14.680
So I said yes. And. The role really, as the IEC,
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:17.339
I mean, it's pretty clear we are advisory. So
00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:19.480
I know that some of the assumptions out there
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.660
are that, you know, we get this stack of 200
00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:25.400
projects and we decide. That is not what we do.
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.599
It's more once projects have been referred. And
00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:32.339
so there's a different process right under the
00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:35.079
Act, which I also would love to see more people
00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:39.710
get far more briefed up on. There's the deferred
00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:42.250
and designated. And so we really get brought
00:19:42.250 --> 00:19:45.769
in once the federal government has sort of worked
00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:49.289
through all the processes. We have provided advice
00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:52.430
in the past on. What you really need to think
00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:54.990
about when it comes to rights holders being either
00:19:54.990 --> 00:19:58.609
a proponent, being a partner, having some type
00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:01.470
of equity in the project or being a support.
00:20:01.769 --> 00:20:03.730
What are the things you need to think about before
00:20:03.730 --> 00:20:05.970
you say yes? So we've provided some of that advice.
00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:08.990
And of course, when nations, some nations have
00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.190
said no and some nations have said yes. How do
00:20:11.190 --> 00:20:13.289
you navigate that? So that's some of the advice
00:20:13.289 --> 00:20:17.329
that we've provided. But we really, our role
00:20:17.329 --> 00:20:20.289
really sort of. gets triggered after a project
00:20:20.289 --> 00:20:23.589
is referred or designated and then we can jump
00:20:23.589 --> 00:20:26.789
in and provide advice to the MPO. You know some
00:20:26.789 --> 00:20:30.410
examples were that recent legislation there was
00:20:30.410 --> 00:20:32.970
an engagement period that was like a month long
00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:36.009
and so of course the IAC was like hey that's
00:20:36.009 --> 00:20:38.470
not going to work. You should really think about
00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:40.589
extending it. There were calls for extending
00:20:40.589 --> 00:20:42.710
it by rights holders, by leaders. And so it happened.
00:20:42.829 --> 00:20:46.190
So there's, you know, a number of different key,
00:20:46.309 --> 00:20:48.849
I would say, key players and influencers that,
00:20:48.869 --> 00:20:52.490
of course, have the ear of government. And so
00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:55.869
the IAC really, you know, providing that advice
00:20:55.869 --> 00:20:58.990
and insight to the major projects office and
00:20:58.990 --> 00:21:05.210
being able to I would say help government with
00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:07.750
how they create relationships. Relationships
00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:11.069
in this day and age create certainty. And better
00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:13.549
relationships lead to better decisions. And so
00:21:13.549 --> 00:21:17.829
how do we help those who are in the place of
00:21:17.829 --> 00:21:22.250
making those relationships do so in a better
00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:25.289
way, in a more thoughtful way, and a rights -based
00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:29.809
way? Yes. Well, thank you for that. Kluane, one
00:21:29.809 --> 00:21:32.309
of the things we hear from especially foreign
00:21:32.309 --> 00:21:36.690
investors is have things really changed in Canada?
00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:40.809
And the Major Projects Office was a new initiative.
00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:45.430
The Indigenous Advisory Council is new. How would
00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:48.910
you answer that question? It's now been almost
00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:52.750
a year working with Major Projects Office on
00:21:52.750 --> 00:21:56.109
the council. That's one of the new initiatives.
00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:02.880
really changed? So first of all, I think there's
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.160
a couple of different pieces. You know, one,
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:07.420
how have things changed with government? The
00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:10.779
second thing I think about is where is sort of
00:22:10.779 --> 00:22:13.680
the relationship? And in each nation, it could
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.140
be very different with the federal government
00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:17.140
than others. But then there's this sort of broadly
00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:20.539
where are Indigenous peoples at with this government?
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.680
And then for investors, you know, where have
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.059
we seen, to your point, big shifts? You know,
00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:28.720
the first thing I'll say, and I've shared this
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.319
story in a couple of recent opportunities, this
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.099
federal government is going very quickly. You
00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:36.660
know, the prime minister has said he will do
00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:40.779
that. And that is what he's doing. The one thing
00:22:40.779 --> 00:22:42.859
that I'm reminded of, and a leader said this
00:22:42.859 --> 00:22:46.319
to me pretty early in my career serving as regional
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.740
chief, and I was sort of trying to do all the
00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:53.440
things. You know, for myself, it was, you know,
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:57.640
I was younger and I felt I needed to sort of
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.259
show, yes, I said I was going to do these things
00:23:00.259 --> 00:23:01.460
and so I'm going to do it and I'm going to do
00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:05.779
them all right now. And this leader sort of said
00:23:05.779 --> 00:23:07.720
to me, you know, Klawani, when you're walking
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.099
in the bush and you turn around and your people
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:13.680
aren't there behind you, then you've gone too
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:19.200
far. And I sort of realized, OK, you know, you
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:24.119
can still. move forward in the bush with your
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.440
people but sometimes you're going really fast
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.240
and and so that has been i would say the the
00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.039
story that i i continue to share when i can that
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.279
there's a lot happening. And I'm very mindful
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.220
of the reality of so many of our communities
00:23:39.220 --> 00:23:41.559
where people are dealing with, you know, access
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.220
to clean drinking water, mold in schools and
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:46.559
homes. Now we're dealing with, you know, flooding
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:49.319
and wildfire. Like up in Northwest Territories,
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:51.720
again, a community has just been evacuated and
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.640
they're likely going to see significant damage.
00:23:55.339 --> 00:23:58.700
So then, you know, industry or partners or governments
00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:00.660
like, hey, we want to do this engagement on this
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.559
legislation or this process and really need you
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:05.700
to participate in 30 days. And it's, you know,
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.339
people can't catch a breath. So that has been,
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:14.539
I think, and I hope. That that message is reigning
00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:18.220
pretty clear to those in spaces of decision making
00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:20.900
authority, that it's also about meeting people
00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:22.660
where they're at. And I know that that can be
00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:24.559
an uncomfortable conversation sometimes with
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.119
industry who's very concerned about, you know,
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.880
project timelines, certainty, bottom line, etc.
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:35.859
And some of the best examples of projects that
00:24:35.859 --> 00:24:38.740
have been. that have moved forward have been
00:24:38.740 --> 00:24:40.339
about meeting people where they're at and it's
00:24:40.339 --> 00:24:42.339
a super simple concept not just working with
00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:46.779
Indigenous peoples but sometimes it's yes later
00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:52.799
sometimes it's yes but not right now we need
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.640
more time sometimes it's we're thinking about
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:58.339
yes but we're not ready to make a decision and
00:24:58.339 --> 00:25:00.740
our people need to get more information you know
00:25:00.740 --> 00:25:03.299
so it's it's sort of those are the examples that
00:25:03.609 --> 00:25:05.750
I think are really important for industry to
00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:09.950
better understand because things are moving.
00:25:10.150 --> 00:25:13.309
Some nations are ready to go. Other nations need
00:25:13.309 --> 00:25:17.849
more time. And so the specific project that someone
00:25:17.849 --> 00:25:20.450
might be interested in might not work right now.
00:25:21.210 --> 00:25:24.130
But maybe in five years, there's much more of
00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:27.329
an aptitude and the nation has sort of been able
00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:29.730
to build capacity to even get people comfortable
00:25:29.730 --> 00:25:32.589
to make the decision. So those are some of the,
00:25:32.710 --> 00:25:37.150
I think with industry, I always like to sort
00:25:37.150 --> 00:25:40.470
of break it down in that way because there is
00:25:40.470 --> 00:25:42.970
a lot of pressure on rights holders and there's
00:25:42.970 --> 00:25:44.849
so many different facets of the responsibilities
00:25:44.849 --> 00:25:48.609
they carry. And so it's like just taking a pause.
00:25:50.650 --> 00:25:52.710
understanding where the community is at. It's
00:25:52.710 --> 00:25:56.349
not always no, but it's not always, yeah, we're
00:25:56.349 --> 00:25:59.269
in right now. Yeah, that's an important reminder.
00:25:59.329 --> 00:26:02.190
This podcast focuses on economic development
00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:06.730
issues, but of course there are social issues
00:26:06.730 --> 00:26:09.289
as well. And many times, especially when you're
00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:12.710
dealing with band councils or Indigenous councils,
00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:16.049
they're wearing multiple hats and there's only
00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:20.690
so much capacity to deal with. but what does
00:26:20.690 --> 00:26:23.410
seem different is there's more meaningful engagement
00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:27.990
now and meaningful participation is on offer
00:26:27.990 --> 00:26:32.930
and these projects are you know generational
00:26:32.930 --> 00:26:35.710
and when we talk about seven generations there
00:26:35.710 --> 00:26:37.890
needs to be a little bit of patience at the outset
00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:42.289
to do things properly and at the right pace as
00:26:42.289 --> 00:26:47.039
you say i mean i think that's one of the I think
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.799
most important things perhaps for industry to
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:53.359
maybe lean in on a bit more is that it's not
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:55.500
just about faster projects. It's about better
00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:58.819
projects, right? Like we can't do what we've
00:26:58.819 --> 00:27:01.240
been doing as a country where, to your point,
00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:03.579
like Indigenous peoples weren't engaged. We ended
00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:06.519
up dealing with, you know, how many. you know,
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.240
dozens of court cases that sort of reaffirm that
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.900
there is a process, there are, you know, inherent
00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:14.279
rights, there's constitutionally protected rights,
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:16.660
there's treaty rights, like there's a whole basket
00:27:16.660 --> 00:27:19.900
of rights that need to be not just considered,
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.539
but that need to be at the center when we're
00:27:22.539 --> 00:27:25.099
talking about these projects. So the fastest
00:27:25.099 --> 00:27:27.819
path to certainty is about building relationship
00:27:27.819 --> 00:27:31.440
and building trust. And making sure everyone's
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:33.480
working with the same information. I find that's
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.480
also like one of the hugest gaps when we're talking
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.980
about projects is. Not everyone's working with
00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:41.420
the same information. Perhaps the dev corp to
00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:45.039
chief and counsel to, you know, some of the other
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.859
limited partnerships that exist have all this
00:27:47.859 --> 00:27:49.880
information. And then they bring it to the to
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.160
the people and the people might have just received
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.319
this information. Like there's been some awesome
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:58.200
examples like up in the Taltan Nation. Is it
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.380
Red Creek or Red Chris Mine? You know, the the
00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:04.140
number of engagements. Yeah, that they had was.
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.740
was astounding in my view. But then I had to
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.619
think about it. I'm like, is it astounding or
00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:11.859
should that just be the bottom line where like
00:28:11.859 --> 00:28:14.819
they're making sure that everybody has the opportunity,
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.460
both place and space, whether it's UConn or BC
00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:22.730
in all of their communities. And I thought that
00:28:22.730 --> 00:28:25.309
was really, that should, in my view, be, you
00:28:25.309 --> 00:28:27.970
know, the sort of the bottom line to make sure
00:28:27.970 --> 00:28:29.890
that everybody is working with the same information
00:28:29.890 --> 00:28:32.369
so that people can feel good about the decision
00:28:32.369 --> 00:28:34.710
or the direction that they're either supporting
00:28:34.710 --> 00:28:38.549
or that they might not be supporting. I think
00:28:38.549 --> 00:28:41.890
that's very insightful about what is happening
00:28:41.890 --> 00:28:44.450
on the ground. And as you said, how is that knowledge
00:28:44.450 --> 00:28:47.069
dispersed and how do you get everyone up to speed?
00:28:48.349 --> 00:28:51.250
Karani, thanks for joining us today. And thank
00:28:51.250 --> 00:28:53.390
you to our listeners for tuning into Drumbeats,
00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:55.809
where we bring you the capital markets intelligence
00:28:55.809 --> 00:28:58.769
that matters for Indigenous investment in Canada.
00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:02.549
Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review
00:29:02.549 --> 00:29:05.410
on your favorite podcast channel. Thanks for
00:29:05.410 --> 00:29:07.569
listening to Drumbeats. Until next time.
00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069
Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.710
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.689
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.089
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
00:00:13.269 --> 00:00:15.949
I'm Mark McNacken, and my co -hosts Ron Brandt
00:00:15.949 --> 00:00:18.890
and I are joined today by Kluane Adamek, Chair
00:00:18.890 --> 00:00:21.910
of the Indigenous Advisory Council. to Canada's
00:00:21.910 --> 00:00:24.750
Major Projects Office. The 11 -member national
00:00:24.750 --> 00:00:27.269
body Prime Minister Mark Carney appointed to
00:00:27.269 --> 00:00:29.890
guide how major resource and infrastructure projects
00:00:29.890 --> 00:00:33.950
move through the federal system. Since Carney
00:00:33.950 --> 00:00:36.869
launched the office in August 2025, it has referred
00:00:36.869 --> 00:00:39.350
15 nation -building projects worth more than
00:00:39.350 --> 00:00:43.429
$125 billion Canadian dollars. Tiwane served
00:00:43.429 --> 00:00:46.270
as Assembly of First Nations Yukon Regional Chief
00:00:46.270 --> 00:00:50.479
from 2018 to 2025. leading their national follows
00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:53.420
on climate, environment, and water before stepping
00:00:53.420 --> 00:00:56.920
into this new advisory role. In the first of
00:00:56.920 --> 00:01:00.159
two conversations, she sets out why a nation's
00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.479
answer of yes, but not right now, is a planning
00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:06.939
signal rather than a rejection, why relationship
00:01:06.939 --> 00:01:09.519
and shared information do more than speed to
00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:12.299
shorten a project's path to certainty, and where
00:01:12.299 --> 00:01:14.879
her council's advice actually carries weight.
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Welcome to Drumbeats. It's a pleasure to have
00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:25.920
you here. Thank you so much, Mark. I'm really
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happy to be here. Hey, Kluane. Great to see you.
00:01:28.819 --> 00:01:31.500
Thanks for doing this. Yeah, I'm really happy
00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:34.140
to be here. Well, it's a great honor to have
00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:38.620
you here. And as you know, we have listeners
00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:40.760
from around the world, primarily from the UK
00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.439
over here and from the continent. Can you just
00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:49.060
describe, first of all, where you are? And also
00:01:49.060 --> 00:01:51.420
then about yourself and a little bit about your
00:01:51.420 --> 00:01:54.379
experience growing up and where you've landed
00:01:54.379 --> 00:01:56.939
today, because you're in some very important
00:01:56.939 --> 00:02:01.019
roles. Yeah, thank you so much. And really looking
00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:05.299
forward to having a conversation. My name is
00:02:05.299 --> 00:02:10.050
Kluane Adamek. My Tlingit name is Age. And I
00:02:10.050 --> 00:02:12.650
am from Kluane First Nation, which is in the
00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:16.270
southwest Yukon, all very Google -able. But there
00:02:16.270 --> 00:02:18.650
is a lot of really neat research, actually, that
00:02:18.650 --> 00:02:21.669
takes place in my territory. Of course, this
00:02:21.669 --> 00:02:26.449
is a photo of Kluane Lake, a very special place,
00:02:26.509 --> 00:02:30.889
of course, to our people, but also to me as well.
00:02:31.189 --> 00:02:34.650
I have on my father's side Tlingit and Southern
00:02:34.650 --> 00:02:39.250
Tshoni ancestry, and on my mom's. mix of settler
00:02:39.250 --> 00:02:42.750
Canadians, so actually Scottish and Irish and
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German. So a really interesting blend, I would
00:02:46.449 --> 00:02:48.289
say, in terms of all the different histories
00:02:48.289 --> 00:02:51.370
and the lineages that I come from. I have a three
00:02:51.370 --> 00:02:53.810
-year -old daughter named Tayanna Copperjane.
00:02:54.030 --> 00:02:59.530
And what's special about Tayanna is... I knew
00:02:59.530 --> 00:03:03.550
I always wanted to be a mom. And I was in an
00:03:03.550 --> 00:03:05.629
elected position as the regional chief at the
00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:09.490
time. And sort of, you know, the reality for
00:03:09.490 --> 00:03:11.530
women, of course, is there is a set period of
00:03:11.530 --> 00:03:14.990
time that you have. And so I had my daughter
00:03:14.990 --> 00:03:19.590
at 37. And it was at that point after I had her
00:03:19.590 --> 00:03:23.490
where I had this moment of, how am I best contributing?
00:03:23.569 --> 00:03:25.830
You know, most importantly, how am I best contributing
00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:31.020
to? her and supporting her and her world, and
00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:35.520
also able to continue to contribute to community
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.219
and the region and First Nations broadly. And
00:03:38.219 --> 00:03:42.919
so at that point, my partner and I made the decision
00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:44.860
that that would be my last term. So I served
00:03:44.860 --> 00:03:46.840
for nearly eight years as the regional chief
00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:51.500
and have since stepped into some spaces that
00:03:51.500 --> 00:03:54.159
I was in, I would say, more engaged in earlier
00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.960
in my career. So I was on our board for economic
00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:03.199
development, corporation, and I did an MBA at
00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:07.319
SFU. And so at the end of my term, I was appointed
00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:10.199
by Prime Minister Carney to the Indigenous Advisory
00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:12.879
Council to the major projects office. And so
00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:16.360
that's been where a lot of my contributions have
00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:21.139
been leaning towards. And this This conversation
00:04:21.139 --> 00:04:26.500
around, you know, building strong, building better.
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:32.199
And the work that I contributed to as regional
00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:34.560
chief was to lead the environment and water stewardship
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:37.079
files. And so I've always felt there's always
00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:43.319
been this sort of, in my view, this perhaps rhetoric
00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.560
around the environment or major projects, the
00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:49.250
environment or let's drive the economy. I don't
00:04:49.250 --> 00:04:52.870
see it that way. I never really have. And I feel
00:04:52.870 --> 00:04:57.389
like for a lot of Indigenous peoples, there's
00:04:57.389 --> 00:05:00.730
a lot of challenge when we're not balancing the
00:05:00.730 --> 00:05:03.949
environment and driving the economy through major
00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:06.610
projects or infrastructure development. But when
00:05:06.610 --> 00:05:09.410
things are in balance, it can work really well.
00:05:09.550 --> 00:05:13.329
And so that has been... in the last year or so,
00:05:13.470 --> 00:05:19.430
the space that I've welcomed in my world and
00:05:19.430 --> 00:05:23.430
really happy to join the Indigenous Advisory
00:05:23.430 --> 00:05:26.529
Council. There's 11 of us. I'm currently serving
00:05:26.529 --> 00:05:29.509
as the chair and my co -chair, Vanessa Doig,
00:05:29.509 --> 00:05:33.470
who's Enoch. And so it's just a depth and breadth
00:05:33.470 --> 00:05:36.529
and wealth of knowledge on the council. And so
00:05:36.529 --> 00:05:40.310
I've been really enjoying that. Yes. Well, thank
00:05:40.310 --> 00:05:42.290
you for that. And thank you for sharing your
00:05:42.290 --> 00:05:45.410
background for us. And I think we've had this
00:05:45.410 --> 00:05:49.269
discussed with a number of guests. And we talked
00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:52.550
earlier, Southern Canadians versus Canadians
00:05:52.550 --> 00:05:57.709
from further north, which is so important to
00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:00.569
Canada these days. And there's an announcement
00:06:00.569 --> 00:06:03.310
that's just come out. Today in the news that
00:06:03.310 --> 00:06:06.569
I'm sure you've had some visibility of in terms
00:06:06.569 --> 00:06:09.930
of Canada has chosen to partner with the German
00:06:09.930 --> 00:06:14.069
manufacturer of submarines, which is the first
00:06:14.069 --> 00:06:18.410
significant investment in defense Canada has
00:06:18.410 --> 00:06:20.509
made in strategic because many people forget
00:06:20.509 --> 00:06:23.029
we're a three nation, we're a three ocean country.
00:06:23.250 --> 00:06:25.329
Yeah, good point. The Arctic has been forgotten
00:06:25.329 --> 00:06:28.850
for a long time. And historically, though, the
00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:31.370
Yukon has played an absolutely critical role.
00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:35.259
in the defense of Canada, going back to World
00:06:35.259 --> 00:06:38.199
War II or going back to prior to that with the
00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:41.779
acquisition by the Americans of the Russian territory
00:06:41.779 --> 00:06:45.040
on North America at the time. So Yukon has always
00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:49.579
been kind of an anchor for the country. And we
00:06:49.579 --> 00:06:52.259
now have this moment forward where defense is
00:06:52.259 --> 00:06:55.199
coming back to be an important part, but circle
00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:57.399
back to what you were talking about, about when
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it all comes together. And I think this is the
00:07:00.589 --> 00:07:03.509
real exceptional opportunity Canada has because
00:07:03.509 --> 00:07:06.149
Canada is reinventing itself as a country. As
00:07:06.149 --> 00:07:08.709
you know, under Prime Minister Carney and what's
00:07:08.709 --> 00:07:11.350
happened south of the border, we've had to reinvent
00:07:11.350 --> 00:07:15.470
our outlook for the future because it's changed
00:07:15.470 --> 00:07:19.110
dramatically. And fortunately, at this point
00:07:19.110 --> 00:07:21.550
in time, the Indigenous people have a voice.
00:07:23.129 --> 00:07:25.230
Indigenous people are in leadership positions
00:07:25.230 --> 00:07:29.279
across the country. There's some strong... organizations,
00:07:29.620 --> 00:07:33.540
Desnetti, for example, out of Saskatchewan, who
00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:36.459
are participating in these major decisions. So
00:07:36.459 --> 00:07:39.060
it's really an inflection point. And as you talked
00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:41.360
about just on your own individual journey, it
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:43.220
was how could you best contribute? And here you
00:07:43.220 --> 00:07:46.819
are now chair of the Indigenous Advisory Council
00:07:46.819 --> 00:07:49.560
for the Major Project Coalition. So first of
00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:52.319
all, congratulations on all that you've achieved
00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:55.620
so far. And you have a leadership role that affects
00:07:55.620 --> 00:08:01.639
all Canadians. really interesting story. So thank
00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.779
you for being with us on the podcast. Thanks,
00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:09.339
Mark. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm like,
00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:11.899
let's jump in. Let's go there. Yes. Okay, well,
00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.339
we got to come back to your TED Women 2020 talk
00:08:15.339 --> 00:08:18.699
on Yukon matriarchs. And I understand it's been
00:08:18.699 --> 00:08:21.240
watched by over 1 .4 million times, which is
00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:26.360
a lot of people watching. And that must have
00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.879
been quite a platform and recognition. for women
00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:32.679
across Canada and for Indigenous women in particular?
00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:38.879
I think that's where a lot of, when I recall
00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.659
when I was first elected and sort of showing
00:08:41.659 --> 00:08:46.679
up in spaces and feeling that discord perhaps
00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:51.240
in just generally, not just how I was perhaps
00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:54.659
treated, but other women who are in the space.
00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:01.559
It is a very different worldview when you're
00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:08.240
coming from a space where women have always been
00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.059
included in decision making, have been advising
00:09:11.059 --> 00:09:14.120
the decision makers or directing the decision
00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:18.220
makers. It's very different than when you're
00:09:18.220 --> 00:09:20.519
coming from a more Western colonial worldview
00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:25.039
where has been largely centered around men and
00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:28.830
sort of. patriarchal roles of significance. And
00:09:28.830 --> 00:09:32.570
so that's where in the Yukon, we have a clan
00:09:32.570 --> 00:09:36.009
system, an animal clan system. And so you are
00:09:36.009 --> 00:09:39.169
born into your clan through your mother. And
00:09:39.169 --> 00:09:42.490
for myself, having a non -Indigenous mother,
00:09:42.690 --> 00:09:45.409
I was adopted, which is an incredibly important,
00:09:45.629 --> 00:09:50.929
a significant moment in one's life where the
00:09:50.929 --> 00:09:57.700
clan includes you. And so that... Sense of identity
00:09:57.700 --> 00:10:01.639
and connection and responsibility is one that
00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:05.299
you don't carry lightly. And that is where when
00:10:05.299 --> 00:10:07.519
showing up in other spaces and particularly,
00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:09.620
you know, political spaces. But now that I'm
00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:14.419
in more sort of industry, a lot of conversations
00:10:14.419 --> 00:10:16.399
with industry partners, a lot of conversations
00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:20.740
with rights holders. there is a bit of a rub.
00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.379
And so that TED Talk was really to help people
00:10:24.379 --> 00:10:28.580
understand that, you know, first of all, leadership
00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:33.700
is a responsibility, not a status. And that when
00:10:33.700 --> 00:10:38.259
it comes to matriarchy, this is a term you're
00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:40.799
seeing a lot of young Indigenous people starting
00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:43.000
to talk about, you know, the matriarchy is back,
00:10:43.220 --> 00:10:46.639
there's a matriarchy movement. But it really
00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:50.990
is about holding up the space for women to not
00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:53.570
only be included, but to be the decision makers.
00:10:54.049 --> 00:10:58.450
And women in so many Yukon First Nations communities
00:10:58.450 --> 00:11:00.509
and communities across the country have always
00:11:00.509 --> 00:11:04.009
been in those positions. It's sort of now we're
00:11:04.009 --> 00:11:06.450
re -acknowledging that that is the case and that
00:11:06.450 --> 00:11:09.669
needs to be so. And so that was really what the
00:11:09.669 --> 00:11:12.669
TED Talk was about. And I hope people took something
00:11:12.669 --> 00:11:15.919
away from that. I hope they... Listen to the
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.639
story I shared about resilience and continuity.
00:11:21.139 --> 00:11:24.220
And that is something that I often go back to
00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:27.519
in moments where I feel ungrounded or need to
00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:31.120
remind myself why I'm doing what I'm doing. So
00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:33.679
that is perhaps we could probably talk a whole
00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:40.399
podcast episode on it. But for Cole's Notes version,
00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:44.320
yeah, that was a really special moment. Wow.
00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:46.620
And I think one of the things in terms of the
00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:50.720
leadership that you're providing at the moment,
00:11:50.820 --> 00:11:53.659
you have this ongoing commitment to learning
00:11:53.659 --> 00:11:55.620
and development, which is always a sign of a
00:11:55.620 --> 00:11:57.840
great leader. You've completed your MBA, executive
00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:01.580
MBA in indigenous business leadership at Simon
00:12:01.580 --> 00:12:05.220
Fraser's Beattie School in BC. You're completing
00:12:05.220 --> 00:12:09.019
the Institute of Corporate Directors designation
00:12:09.019 --> 00:12:12.620
or just completed? Yeah. Another one under your
00:12:12.620 --> 00:12:16.350
belt. Wow. And look at the positions you're holding.
00:12:16.750 --> 00:12:23.429
So what drew you to formalize that education
00:12:23.429 --> 00:12:26.509
experience given all the learnings you had? You
00:12:26.509 --> 00:12:29.710
had the on -the -job experience. You were providing
00:12:29.710 --> 00:12:32.789
those leadership roles. What added value do you
00:12:32.789 --> 00:12:35.250
think that brings to you and that other people
00:12:35.250 --> 00:12:38.539
should be considering? You know, when I think
00:12:38.539 --> 00:12:41.080
about particularly the listeners that you have
00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.899
across the pond, so to speak, but here in Canada
00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:51.659
and beyond, growing up on both sides of my family,
00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:56.320
education was always sort of a non -negotiable.
00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:59.659
It didn't matter what it was that you decided
00:12:59.659 --> 00:13:02.399
to pursue, but that you would there was an expectation
00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.159
that you would further your education. And, you
00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:07.279
know, my grandmother, residential school survivor
00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.500
at a certain period of time, illegal for her
00:13:09.500 --> 00:13:13.080
to go to university. You know, my aunts and uncles,
00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:16.500
one of my aunts went later in life, but I was
00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:19.419
definitely one of the first in my family to pursue
00:13:19.419 --> 00:13:23.440
and to complete my undergraduate degree. And
00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:26.240
my mom, neither of my grandparents. My parents
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.259
went to university. My grandfather immigrated
00:13:28.259 --> 00:13:31.960
from Germany after the Second World War and had
00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.259
a grade eight education and was able to sort
00:13:34.259 --> 00:13:37.460
of really navigate. He worked for the governor
00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:38.899
of the Bank of Canada. That's like a whole other
00:13:38.899 --> 00:13:41.779
story. But like this whole space around education
00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:47.080
and a responsibility to learn and to grow was
00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:52.330
always there for me. Kind of in my own life,
00:13:52.429 --> 00:13:54.590
it's sort of been every 10 years, every 10 years,
00:13:54.649 --> 00:13:56.909
I've told myself I'm going to do something. I'm
00:13:56.909 --> 00:13:59.409
going to go back. I'm going to either relearn
00:13:59.409 --> 00:14:04.690
or learn new. And so the yeah, the the undergrad,
00:14:04.809 --> 00:14:10.250
the MBA and and the ICD and what I put on a bit
00:14:10.250 --> 00:14:11.710
of a back burner, which I haven't shared widely,
00:14:11.850 --> 00:14:13.769
but will share here is I was accepted into a
00:14:13.769 --> 00:14:16.409
Ph .D. program for this year and then sort of
00:14:16.409 --> 00:14:19.960
said those moments where. There can be so many
00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.500
opportunities, right, in one's lifetime, but
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:25.480
it's always about timing, right? And so how do
00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:28.100
you make sure that the contributions and where
00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:32.879
you use your time is going to best suit your
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:35.580
priorities? And of course, having a little girl,
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.080
that's my first. My second is, of course, contributing
00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.929
to my region. And then third, how do I? you know,
00:14:43.929 --> 00:14:45.970
bring that experience to support rights holders
00:14:45.970 --> 00:14:49.070
across the country and beyond. So I'll come back.
00:14:49.070 --> 00:14:52.549
I'll come back to the PhD at some point. UConn's
00:14:52.549 --> 00:14:54.370
also starting a law school, which has kind of
00:14:54.370 --> 00:14:58.149
piqued my interest a bit. I was going to go and
00:14:58.149 --> 00:15:01.029
then didn't at another point in my life. So it
00:15:01.029 --> 00:15:05.349
is, it really is about, you know. Education,
00:15:05.349 --> 00:15:07.889
prosperity and responsibility, in my view, are
00:15:07.889 --> 00:15:11.190
all pieces that go hand in hand. And because
00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:14.570
for both of my grandparents, they never had the
00:15:14.570 --> 00:15:17.889
opportunity. My mom, the first in my family as
00:15:17.889 --> 00:15:23.029
a single parent to go to university. and able
00:15:23.029 --> 00:15:25.129
to be resourced, it's kind of like, why not?
00:15:25.409 --> 00:15:28.009
Like, this is an opportunity for not only for
00:15:28.009 --> 00:15:30.490
me, but for other people in my community or my
00:15:30.490 --> 00:15:34.129
daughter to see their parents continuing to pursue
00:15:34.129 --> 00:15:37.090
education. Yes. And I think one of the interesting
00:15:37.090 --> 00:15:39.990
things, thank you for sharing that. And I thought
00:15:39.990 --> 00:15:42.230
you're going to say in the PhD program, you're
00:15:42.230 --> 00:15:48.200
working on the weekends. I thought, wow. But
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.820
I think one of the things this demonstrates for
00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:53.580
those who haven't been investing in Canada recently
00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:56.740
or now re -looking at it is the indigenous people
00:15:56.740 --> 00:16:01.940
are seizing the opportunities that were denied
00:16:01.940 --> 00:16:05.799
for so long. And as the country is reinventing
00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:07.820
itself, the indigenous people, as we've just
00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:11.080
talked about, have reclaimed and are reclaiming
00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.620
their rightful place in the leadership and the
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:15.799
development of the country. It's kind of the
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.139
attitude you bring because we've come across,
00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:19.960
you know, if you're choosing a partner today
00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:23.960
in Canada, forget about the rights holders issue
00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.559
that you have to deal with rights holders. Some
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.940
of the partners you want to choose to work with
00:16:28.940 --> 00:16:32.440
are Indigenous -led or Indigenous companies because
00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.679
they are hungry and out fighting because they've
00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.980
been so long oppressed and held back. Now that
00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:42.049
this moment has come. You know, we see that coming
00:16:42.049 --> 00:16:45.389
through in terms of the competitive spirit. If
00:16:45.389 --> 00:16:47.169
we talk about the animal spirits coming back
00:16:47.169 --> 00:16:49.690
to the clan system, you also see those animal
00:16:49.690 --> 00:16:51.889
spirits that we like to talk about in the UK
00:16:51.889 --> 00:16:55.470
reinvigorating the Canadian economy because you're
00:16:55.470 --> 00:16:59.350
shaking it up because you have a long -term view,
00:16:59.549 --> 00:17:01.710
the Indigenous people, that they bring to projects.
00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:04.089
It's not how do we buy something and flip it.
00:17:04.230 --> 00:17:06.210
It's we're going to live with this, so how do
00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:07.990
we do it in the right way so it's sustainable?
00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:10.970
plus provide those long -term returns for our
00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:15.809
community and for the country. So maybe we just
00:17:15.809 --> 00:17:18.190
pivot from there and talk a little bit. September
00:17:18.190 --> 00:17:20.210
25, you were appointed by Prime Minister Carney
00:17:20.210 --> 00:17:22.349
to the new Indigenous Advisory Council for the
00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:25.690
Major Projects Office. And for listeners who
00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:28.990
have not been following closely, can you talk
00:17:28.990 --> 00:17:31.150
a little bit about what the council is and what
00:17:31.150 --> 00:17:36.230
the MPO is, what exactly you're being asked to
00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:38.519
do? Because on the other hand, there's... 600
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.539
plus chiefs around the country who all have their
00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:46.380
perspective, too. Yeah, I mean, the first thing
00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:52.339
I'll say is it was definitely a surprise to myself
00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:56.519
and, you know, wasn't, you know, didn't know
00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:58.480
who else would be on the council when this sort
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.079
of all happened. I also was still in my elected
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.990
office and so had to qualify. You know, I. is
00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:08.910
this a me thing as a Kluane or is this a, you
00:18:08.910 --> 00:18:11.269
need, you're interested in sort of the role thing.
00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:16.029
And so once all those pieces came to light and
00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:20.150
were solidified and after speaking to some leaders
00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:23.289
in my region, I decided that it was a really
00:18:23.289 --> 00:18:26.450
important place to, to step into, to contribute
00:18:26.450 --> 00:18:31.970
to. It was new, but that there's so much around,
00:18:32.170 --> 00:18:37.720
you know, improving not only their relationship
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.660
and the process policy legislation, but ultimately.
00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:46.369
The livelihood of First Nations people and knowing
00:18:46.369 --> 00:18:50.829
that there would be a space to ensure that, you
00:18:50.829 --> 00:18:53.750
know, northern considerations would be would
00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:56.849
be at the table. I come from a modern treaty
00:18:56.849 --> 00:18:59.670
nation. And so that those perspectives could
00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:02.690
be shared. And of course, the invaluable experience
00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:04.809
serving as regional chief and working with First
00:19:04.809 --> 00:19:07.789
Nations right across the country in various files.
00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:14.680
So I said yes. And. The role really, as the IEC,
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:17.339
I mean, it's pretty clear we are advisory. So
00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:19.480
I know that some of the assumptions out there
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.660
are that, you know, we get this stack of 200
00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:25.400
projects and we decide. That is not what we do.
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.599
It's more once projects have been referred. And
00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:32.339
so there's a different process right under the
00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:35.079
Act, which I also would love to see more people
00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:39.710
get far more briefed up on. There's the deferred
00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:42.250
and designated. And so we really get brought
00:19:42.250 --> 00:19:45.769
in once the federal government has sort of worked
00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:49.289
through all the processes. We have provided advice
00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:52.430
in the past on. What you really need to think
00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:54.990
about when it comes to rights holders being either
00:19:54.990 --> 00:19:58.609
a proponent, being a partner, having some type
00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:01.470
of equity in the project or being a support.
00:20:01.769 --> 00:20:03.730
What are the things you need to think about before
00:20:03.730 --> 00:20:05.970
you say yes? So we've provided some of that advice.
00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:08.990
And of course, when nations, some nations have
00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.190
said no and some nations have said yes. How do
00:20:11.190 --> 00:20:13.289
you navigate that? So that's some of the advice
00:20:13.289 --> 00:20:17.329
that we've provided. But we really, our role
00:20:17.329 --> 00:20:20.289
really sort of. gets triggered after a project
00:20:20.289 --> 00:20:23.589
is referred or designated and then we can jump
00:20:23.589 --> 00:20:26.789
in and provide advice to the MPO. You know some
00:20:26.789 --> 00:20:30.410
examples were that recent legislation there was
00:20:30.410 --> 00:20:32.970
an engagement period that was like a month long
00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:36.009
and so of course the IAC was like hey that's
00:20:36.009 --> 00:20:38.470
not going to work. You should really think about
00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:40.589
extending it. There were calls for extending
00:20:40.589 --> 00:20:42.710
it by rights holders, by leaders. And so it happened.
00:20:42.829 --> 00:20:46.190
So there's, you know, a number of different key,
00:20:46.309 --> 00:20:48.849
I would say, key players and influencers that,
00:20:48.869 --> 00:20:52.490
of course, have the ear of government. And so
00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:55.869
the IAC really, you know, providing that advice
00:20:55.869 --> 00:20:58.990
and insight to the major projects office and
00:20:58.990 --> 00:21:05.210
being able to I would say help government with
00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:07.750
how they create relationships. Relationships
00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:11.069
in this day and age create certainty. And better
00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:13.549
relationships lead to better decisions. And so
00:21:13.549 --> 00:21:17.829
how do we help those who are in the place of
00:21:17.829 --> 00:21:22.250
making those relationships do so in a better
00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:25.289
way, in a more thoughtful way, and a rights -based
00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:29.809
way? Yes. Well, thank you for that. Kluane, one
00:21:29.809 --> 00:21:32.309
of the things we hear from especially foreign
00:21:32.309 --> 00:21:36.690
investors is have things really changed in Canada?
00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:40.809
And the Major Projects Office was a new initiative.
00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:45.430
The Indigenous Advisory Council is new. How would
00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:48.910
you answer that question? It's now been almost
00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:52.750
a year working with Major Projects Office on
00:21:52.750 --> 00:21:56.109
the council. That's one of the new initiatives.
00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:02.880
really changed? So first of all, I think there's
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.160
a couple of different pieces. You know, one,
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:07.420
how have things changed with government? The
00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:10.779
second thing I think about is where is sort of
00:22:10.779 --> 00:22:13.680
the relationship? And in each nation, it could
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.140
be very different with the federal government
00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:17.140
than others. But then there's this sort of broadly
00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:20.539
where are Indigenous peoples at with this government?
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.680
And then for investors, you know, where have
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.059
we seen, to your point, big shifts? You know,
00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:28.720
the first thing I'll say, and I've shared this
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.319
story in a couple of recent opportunities, this
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.099
federal government is going very quickly. You
00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:36.660
know, the prime minister has said he will do
00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:40.779
that. And that is what he's doing. The one thing
00:22:40.779 --> 00:22:42.859
that I'm reminded of, and a leader said this
00:22:42.859 --> 00:22:46.319
to me pretty early in my career serving as regional
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.740
chief, and I was sort of trying to do all the
00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:53.440
things. You know, for myself, it was, you know,
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:57.640
I was younger and I felt I needed to sort of
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.259
show, yes, I said I was going to do these things
00:23:00.259 --> 00:23:01.460
and so I'm going to do it and I'm going to do
00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:05.779
them all right now. And this leader sort of said
00:23:05.779 --> 00:23:07.720
to me, you know, Klawani, when you're walking
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.099
in the bush and you turn around and your people
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:13.680
aren't there behind you, then you've gone too
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:19.200
far. And I sort of realized, OK, you know, you
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:24.119
can still. move forward in the bush with your
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.440
people but sometimes you're going really fast
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.240
and and so that has been i would say the the
00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.039
story that i i continue to share when i can that
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.279
there's a lot happening. And I'm very mindful
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.220
of the reality of so many of our communities
00:23:39.220 --> 00:23:41.559
where people are dealing with, you know, access
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.220
to clean drinking water, mold in schools and
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:46.559
homes. Now we're dealing with, you know, flooding
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:49.319
and wildfire. Like up in Northwest Territories,
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:51.720
again, a community has just been evacuated and
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.640
they're likely going to see significant damage.
00:23:55.339 --> 00:23:58.700
So then, you know, industry or partners or governments
00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:00.660
like, hey, we want to do this engagement on this
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.559
legislation or this process and really need you
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:05.700
to participate in 30 days. And it's, you know,
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.339
people can't catch a breath. So that has been,
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:14.539
I think, and I hope. That that message is reigning
00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:18.220
pretty clear to those in spaces of decision making
00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:20.900
authority, that it's also about meeting people
00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:22.660
where they're at. And I know that that can be
00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:24.559
an uncomfortable conversation sometimes with
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.119
industry who's very concerned about, you know,
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.880
project timelines, certainty, bottom line, etc.
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:35.859
And some of the best examples of projects that
00:24:35.859 --> 00:24:38.740
have been. that have moved forward have been
00:24:38.740 --> 00:24:40.339
about meeting people where they're at and it's
00:24:40.339 --> 00:24:42.339
a super simple concept not just working with
00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:46.779
Indigenous peoples but sometimes it's yes later
00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:52.799
sometimes it's yes but not right now we need
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.640
more time sometimes it's we're thinking about
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:58.339
yes but we're not ready to make a decision and
00:24:58.339 --> 00:25:00.740
our people need to get more information you know
00:25:00.740 --> 00:25:03.299
so it's it's sort of those are the examples that
00:25:03.609 --> 00:25:05.750
I think are really important for industry to
00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:09.950
better understand because things are moving.
00:25:10.150 --> 00:25:13.309
Some nations are ready to go. Other nations need
00:25:13.309 --> 00:25:17.849
more time. And so the specific project that someone
00:25:17.849 --> 00:25:20.450
might be interested in might not work right now.
00:25:21.210 --> 00:25:24.130
But maybe in five years, there's much more of
00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:27.329
an aptitude and the nation has sort of been able
00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:29.730
to build capacity to even get people comfortable
00:25:29.730 --> 00:25:32.589
to make the decision. So those are some of the,
00:25:32.710 --> 00:25:37.150
I think with industry, I always like to sort
00:25:37.150 --> 00:25:40.470
of break it down in that way because there is
00:25:40.470 --> 00:25:42.970
a lot of pressure on rights holders and there's
00:25:42.970 --> 00:25:44.849
so many different facets of the responsibilities
00:25:44.849 --> 00:25:48.609
they carry. And so it's like just taking a pause.
00:25:50.650 --> 00:25:52.710
understanding where the community is at. It's
00:25:52.710 --> 00:25:56.349
not always no, but it's not always, yeah, we're
00:25:56.349 --> 00:25:59.269
in right now. Yeah, that's an important reminder.
00:25:59.329 --> 00:26:02.190
This podcast focuses on economic development
00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:06.730
issues, but of course there are social issues
00:26:06.730 --> 00:26:09.289
as well. And many times, especially when you're
00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:12.710
dealing with band councils or Indigenous councils,
00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:16.049
they're wearing multiple hats and there's only
00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:20.690
so much capacity to deal with. but what does
00:26:20.690 --> 00:26:23.410
seem different is there's more meaningful engagement
00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:27.990
now and meaningful participation is on offer
00:26:27.990 --> 00:26:32.930
and these projects are you know generational
00:26:32.930 --> 00:26:35.710
and when we talk about seven generations there
00:26:35.710 --> 00:26:37.890
needs to be a little bit of patience at the outset
00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:42.289
to do things properly and at the right pace as
00:26:42.289 --> 00:26:47.039
you say i mean i think that's one of the I think
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.799
most important things perhaps for industry to
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:53.359
maybe lean in on a bit more is that it's not
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:55.500
just about faster projects. It's about better
00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:58.819
projects, right? Like we can't do what we've
00:26:58.819 --> 00:27:01.240
been doing as a country where, to your point,
00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:03.579
like Indigenous peoples weren't engaged. We ended
00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:06.519
up dealing with, you know, how many. you know,
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.240
dozens of court cases that sort of reaffirm that
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.900
there is a process, there are, you know, inherent
00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:14.279
rights, there's constitutionally protected rights,
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:16.660
there's treaty rights, like there's a whole basket
00:27:16.660 --> 00:27:19.900
of rights that need to be not just considered,
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.539
but that need to be at the center when we're
00:27:22.539 --> 00:27:25.099
talking about these projects. So the fastest
00:27:25.099 --> 00:27:27.819
path to certainty is about building relationship
00:27:27.819 --> 00:27:31.440
and building trust. And making sure everyone's
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:33.480
working with the same information. I find that's
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.480
also like one of the hugest gaps when we're talking
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.980
about projects is. Not everyone's working with
00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:41.420
the same information. Perhaps the dev corp to
00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:45.039
chief and counsel to, you know, some of the other
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.859
limited partnerships that exist have all this
00:27:47.859 --> 00:27:49.880
information. And then they bring it to the to
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.160
the people and the people might have just received
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.319
this information. Like there's been some awesome
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:58.200
examples like up in the Taltan Nation. Is it
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.380
Red Creek or Red Chris Mine? You know, the the
00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:04.140
number of engagements. Yeah, that they had was.
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.740
was astounding in my view. But then I had to
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.619
think about it. I'm like, is it astounding or
00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:11.859
should that just be the bottom line where like
00:28:11.859 --> 00:28:14.819
they're making sure that everybody has the opportunity,
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.460
both place and space, whether it's UConn or BC
00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:22.730
in all of their communities. And I thought that
00:28:22.730 --> 00:28:25.309
was really, that should, in my view, be, you
00:28:25.309 --> 00:28:27.970
know, the sort of the bottom line to make sure
00:28:27.970 --> 00:28:29.890
that everybody is working with the same information
00:28:29.890 --> 00:28:32.369
so that people can feel good about the decision
00:28:32.369 --> 00:28:34.710
or the direction that they're either supporting
00:28:34.710 --> 00:28:38.549
or that they might not be supporting. I think
00:28:38.549 --> 00:28:41.890
that's very insightful about what is happening
00:28:41.890 --> 00:28:44.450
on the ground. And as you said, how is that knowledge
00:28:44.450 --> 00:28:47.069
dispersed and how do you get everyone up to speed?
00:28:48.349 --> 00:28:51.250
Karani, thanks for joining us today. And thank
00:28:51.250 --> 00:28:53.390
you to our listeners for tuning into Drumbeats,
00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:55.809
where we bring you the capital markets intelligence
00:28:55.809 --> 00:28:58.769
that matters for Indigenous investment in Canada.
00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:02.549
Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review
00:29:02.549 --> 00:29:05.410
on your favorite podcast channel. Thanks for
00:29:05.410 --> 00:29:07.569
listening to Drumbeats. Until next time.
