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Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.
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I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
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In this episode, you will hear Part Two
of my conversation with Tonya Hendrix,
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Demetri Kapetanakos, and Dionne Miller
from LaGuardia Community College.
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More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's
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Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
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Full episodes of Digication Scholars
Conversations can be found on
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YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
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Now, I think that LaGuardia, you
also I think that one of the really
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cool, smart things, and I don't know
whether this is part of the calculus,
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but I know that there is, you know,
at least in the past, uh, some, some
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idea of co-ops, you know, for students
to work, you know, with internships
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and so on, it really almost like.
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Like immediately prove that, doesn't it?
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Um, because you are, you are also
in the real world and saying, Hey,
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actually what I'm doing matters
and there is a place for it, right?
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Yeah, we definitely have developed
over the last few years, I now focus on
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Experiential Learning, even beyond the
internship idea, but helping students
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to see how what they're learning in
the classroom can actually impact their
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communities and make things better.
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And that's really a
powerful form of learning.
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I think of it as transformational learning
when students can take this thing that I'm
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learning in whichever class and apply to
some issue or problem in my community and
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see that knowledge making a difference.
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You know, I came from a background
where in high school, my principal had
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a big focus on what she called a rounded
education, which, which now, you know,
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I equate to a Liberal Arts education.
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And when I went to college, it was, well,
we're not educating you for a particular.
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Skill or job.
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We're educating you to be able to learn
so that wherever you find yourself
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you have the skills to learn something
new something that's applicable to the
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situation that you find yourself in and
you know, I think that's what we aim for
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at LaGuardia in our Liberal Arts program
that we're giving students the skill to
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to learn wherever they find themselves,
whatever it is that they're doing and
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also to Apply that knowledge to their
their communities and see that their
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knowledge is not just for them and their
personal ambitions, but also can impact
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community that they should care about.
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It is so, so powerful.
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And I actually think that there's
a something, you know, like, um,
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what you just said echoes with me so
well, because there is, it's really
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different when a student is driven
by something that they can see and
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experience and they can believe in.
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Because this is my, my community
is my family, is my friends.
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These are my, you know, relatives
that when I do these things, it
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actually worked for, for them, right?
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That to me is an even more direct, you
know, sort of, um, because I think that
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some of it is sometimes kind of myth like.
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I have, uh, teenagers in my, in my
household, and sometimes they would go,
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Hey, I knew someone who You know, um,
you know, who, you know, I saw someone
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that does this job and, and they were
going to charge a charge us a lot of
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money because we have to, you know,
fix something or whatever it might be.
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And, and, and, and we require the
service and then it go, well, that
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would be a really great profession.
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That's what they, where they're
learning that from, right?
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They are getting that.
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But, but they're exposed
to so little of it.
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That's whatever that came first.
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It seems like I could
see myself doing that.
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And immediately they
go like, let's do that.
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And I, and I, I think that the, the
idea that they, they just didn't
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really quite get the exposure.
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If, if they were exposed to
Leonardo da Vinci, they might
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have been painters instead.
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I don't know.
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Right.
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Or they might've been writers instead.
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So I, I just think that there's
a little bit of this sort of.
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It's slightly myth based right now, um,
that, Hey, you know, these skills gets
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me a job and a paycheck where those
don't, I don't think it's actually true
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because there are plenty of people.
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And in fact, you know, uh, Demetri had
said, Hey, you're from the Ivy leagues.
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You know, actually these kids
get a lot of jobs and good jobs
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and good start paying jobs.
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And guess what?
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Most of their degrees are
largely Liberal Arts-based.
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Um, and so it's a, uh, it's, it's a little
bit, it's sort of like weird that, you
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know, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes,
you know, I love what you just said, we're
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not a workforce development, we want to
provide them with an education, right,
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that encompasses Critical thinking, but
also like when I saw your, the template,
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can we talk about that a little bit?
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You created a template, which was
really a big part of your paper.
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And I don't want to have
this whole conversation.
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We're talking about that.
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Um, you, you have this template
that you've created and clearly
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you wanted to share it with others.
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Um, that had, you know, six, I
think it was like six or seven big.
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Pages, big topics, um, I will share
the paper so people can really read
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the details for those who are really
interested, but it would be great
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if you all can maybe talk a little
bit about that and what are some
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of the, the big ideas from this.
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Do you want me to start?
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Well, go ahead, Demetri.
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Okay.
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I think, well, I mean, I think the
page, I mean, the template that we
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came up with really comes out with a
project that Dionne sort of, you know,
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um, really wanted to sort of build
a Liberal Arts identity and think
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about how could students be engaged
in the Liberal Arts on a meta level.
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So, Tonya and I really were
thinking about how do we layer.
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The levels of reflection and identity
building that are needed in order
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to sort of come out and say, Yeah, I
know what the value is of the Liberal
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Arts, what we've been talking about.
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How do we get the students slowly
but steadily to build to that point
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when they're like, Aha, I got it.
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And that really is about sort of building
step by step and thinking through how does
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that fit into a larger curriculum, right?
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What are the points in the curriculum
that we want them to be like, stop
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and think instead of just saying,
okay, I'm just going through this.
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And I think, again, this idea of
reflection and identity building
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are the two major components of.
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This template.
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So and I think it's taken students beyond.
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This is the Liberal Arts.
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This is what I'm learning to.
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I am the Liberal Arts.
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The Liberal Arts matters to me.
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It's integ... It's integral to who I am.
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And so we're, you know, we're trying
to transition the students, right?
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So we're... They embody their Liberal Arts
education, because I truly feel deep in
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my heart that if a student can explain
to somebody what the Liberal Arts is.
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Right?
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You are far ahead and above and
beyond most students who graduate
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with Liberal Arts degrees.
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And that's part of what we're asking
them to do, starting from the very
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first sem very first, uh, semester
in their first year seminar class.
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This is what people say
the Liberal Arts is.
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What do you think about this?
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How is this going to help you?
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In college, how can this
help you beyond right?
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Start to really embody
what is Liberal Arts.
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So it is kind of speaking about
what Dionne mentioned earlier, an
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experiential learning process, right?
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Delving into the Liberal Arts.
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How does this matter?
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Like Demetri said, in my
everyday life, it's Liberal Arts.
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Let me ask you this.
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It's liberal.
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Should people be looking at Liberal Arts,
sort of this thinking, this mindset.
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A skill that they can learn
and develop and be more
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sophisticated over time with it.
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I would say absolutely.
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I think we have this mindset that
we were, when we were born, given
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this many cards of intelligence.
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And it's still, like you
said earlier, a myth.
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We know now that's not true.
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Our neural networks can
be retrained and reshaped.
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So if that's true, we can continue to
learning, which is why all three of us
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have said something about getting the
skills to continue learning, right?
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Because you can continue to learn.
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I think Demetri and Dionne will agree
that the work that we did in order to
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get our advanced degrees, or at least
I know for me, does not It doesn't
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figure into my everyday life now,
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but it did teach me skills that I
still, I have to write emails on a
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daily basis, not that I enjoy the
process at all, but I have to, right?
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I have to write emails.
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You have to be able to
communicate with people.
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And that's one of the foundations
of a Liberal Arts education
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is communicating your ideas.
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And as you said earlier, when
we practice those skills.
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We get better at doing them.
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I also want to just pop in and add, I
think, you know, we were, we've been
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talking about how jobs have been such
an important part of our identity.
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Like when we always ask
someone, it's what you do.
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And I feel the Liberal Arts adds
another layer of identity where it
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becomes, well, what are your passions?
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What are you thinking?
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What are you interested in?
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And it's just a different way of.
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I think identifying yourself and
also walking through the world,
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both at the same time, right?
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Right.
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It's a way to know yourself better.
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So I tell my students all the time, it's
okay if you didn't like these particular
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chapters in your biology textbook.
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You may like other chapters.
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Part of knowing.
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It's knowing what you don't
know, and that's not at all
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reflected in our society.
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No one can know everything, but if you
know what you don't know and you're
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able to learn, then you can go get it.
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I think that what you are all doing
here is so incredibly important.
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One of the things that I. I
feel very strongly about is that
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it feels like to me that reflection
should be a skill that you can
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differentiate from when you were
a baby all the way to you are.
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I'm, I'm not even, I'm going to skip
over PhDs, but I'm talking about life,
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you know, all the way to when you, you
know, eventually, you know, disappear
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from earth, all of that experience.
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You know, it's a skill that you get.
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And by the way, it has been the truth
for humanity throughout the history.
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That's why, you know, the native Americans
have the elders and Chinese talk about,
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you know, like what happens when they, you
know, when, when, uh, you know, how do you
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think about, um, you know, people who have
experience and, and they're enlightened
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because they've gotten all the meditations
over time and so on and so forth.
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Um, But, but my thinking about it,
that to me, that one of the big
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observation that I've, I've had for a
long time, and I've, I'm continuously
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puzzled by it is that we pay so much
attention to skill level it, when it
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comes to something like let's call.
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I'm not using the as an attack,
by the way, but I'm using as an
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example, let's take math because
none of you guys here teach math.
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So I don't feel like I'm impacting you,
um, but it really applied to almost every
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domain where we know that, you know.
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Like at kindergarten, you are at
this level, being able to have
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concepts of counting and whatnot.
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At certain level, you're able to
do certain kind of arithmetic.
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And then at some level you're
doing pre-calculus, calculus, et
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cetera, and so on and so forth.
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And we, I'm not even criticizing and
whether they are value and whether we
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should have them, but my point is see
how sophisticated we've differentiated
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each and every level of this.
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Yet, when we talk about reflection,
which to me is much more important
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because it literally is a building
block of our neural network, like, um,
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Tonya, you had just mentioned, yet we
are still relatively sort of soft about
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what just reflect you learn to reflect.
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Like, I don't have the vocabulary
to say now that you are a, you know,
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graduate of this or now that you are, you
should be able to do it at this level.
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00:14:14,400
Like your neural network should be
this thick and this wide, or, or
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00:14:17,630
at least have, you know, have been,
have been able to process things
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00:14:20,219
that are off the sixth degree, right?
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00:14:23,670
We are not really even
putting enough effort into it.
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00:14:29,260
To really do it aside, aside from a
program like yours, where you've dedicated
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00:14:34,510
an entire program where people can
actually have a degree on in Liberal
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00:14:41,029
Arts, where you are, you know, like
really thinking through like, well,
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00:14:46,410
the curriculum is how to think is the
ability to develop purpose and need.
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00:14:50,860
And by the way, developing purpose and
meaning to me is what's really beautiful
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00:14:55,250
about what you, you all had talked about,
because it's not just about getting that
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00:14:59,960
paycheck either, because, you know, there
are, there's getting a paycheck in a way
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00:15:01,849
that is fulfilling and there's a paycheck.
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00:15:03,050
That's just a paycheck.
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00:15:08,730
Um, you know, um, and, and, and it
doesn't feel right to just get our
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00:15:11,980
students to get a paycheck without
giving them that fulfillment.
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00:15:16,580
And I think that's one of the
benefits of a college education.
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00:15:23,050
So you should transition from having a
job to having a career where you have
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a vested interest in the processes and
the outcomes other than the paycheck.
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00:15:35,849
And one thing I think that we're kind of
skirting around is the idea of innovation.
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00:15:44,425
So critical thinking is what allows
us to innovate, but it is like you
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00:15:49,014
mentioned before, reflection is not
built into any curriculum, right?
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00:15:56,595
And for a lot of us who teach a lot of
us teach the way that we were taught
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00:16:03,224
and we weren't taught to ask a student,
'You just learned a lot of chemistry and
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00:16:04,855
you're supposed to be in a biology class.
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00:16:11,984
How do you feel about that?' We're
we're not We're not taught to do that.
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00:16:19,329
So it requires us to be innovative
ourselves in order to train our
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00:16:21,455
students to be innovative, right?
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00:16:24,694
Because that's where innovation
comes from reflection.
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00:16:26,055
And you're right, Jeff.
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00:16:32,304
It's a hugely important skill that we
should just as human beings be able to
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00:16:36,074
better, um, like delineate the stages.
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00:16:40,225
Stage zero reflector, your
stage two reflector, right?
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00:16:44,464
And if you do a X, Y, and Z,
you'll can level up, right?
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00:16:46,615
Your reflection ability
is really important.
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00:16:50,605
I mean, maybe it doesn't even have
to be so sequential, you know,
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00:16:58,234
but I think that for us not having
even the sophistication level to have.
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00:17:02,069
You know, a discussion where
we can just say, Oh, okay.
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00:17:06,349
You know, I see that you are, you
know, you're able to reflect in
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00:17:08,039
this way, which is very powerful.
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00:17:11,050
And when you combine it with this other
kinds of reflection, this is where
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00:17:15,050
a really confident, you know, like
a really cool, like you are, you're
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00:17:18,490
going to be really good at the, the,
you know, creative, you know, you,
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00:17:23,069
you'd be a great screenwriter and, and,
and, and, and, and, and, uh, you know,
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00:17:24,740
and a playwright, et cetera, right.
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00:17:29,780
Could I just say, um, I think the
other thing too, that the Liberal Arts
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00:17:36,885
provides is imagination and possibility
of other ways of looking at the world.
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00:17:41,865
I mean, I just have to sort of bring
up a topic that I've just listened to.
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00:17:48,314
Um, a book called 'The Sea People - The
Puzzle of Polynesia.' And one of the
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00:17:55,915
things that blew, my mind is the way,
um, these peoples were able to navigate
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00:18:03,264
the sea, not with a single chart, looking
at stars, looking at swells, looking at
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00:18:09,744
birds and, you know, and it's, you know,
and they were mentioning this, um, 18th
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00:18:15,495
century priest who sailed with cook named
to Paya and he did a map and they're
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00:18:17,475
like, it doesn't look like any map.
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00:18:25,680
That is actually readable because he
used the positionality of a Polynesian
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00:18:29,880
where they were sort of jumping from
island to island and using sort of
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00:18:35,500
different modalities of thinking,
right, in order to be able to navigate.
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00:18:40,610
And I love that as a metaphor for
the Liberal Arts too, right, about
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00:18:46,570
both us as how could we spark that
imagination and what could come up.
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00:18:48,990
As a result of it, right?
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00:18:51,420
I mean, it's just a
different way of viewing.
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00:18:53,320
It's a different way of seeing the world.
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00:18:56,120
It's a different, it's
a different empathy.
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00:18:59,780
It's a different feeling, you
know, and I just want to, I mean,
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00:19:02,850
again, any opportunity now I
have to bring up the Polynesians.
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00:19:07,850
I'll take it, but I do think it
works really well as a metaphor here.
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I think that's so beautiful.
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00:19:13,080
And by the way, this idea of empathy.
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00:19:17,034
Making meaning, you know,
finding passion, et cetera.
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00:19:24,695
It, you know, to me is, you know, it's
one of those, um, one of those things
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00:19:31,585
that humans are privileged to have, you
know, like we, we have a lot of choices.
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00:19:38,870
In life and we get to develop passion
about something and we get to have
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00:19:44,399
that sense of fulfillment by if we can
identify it, we can go for it and it
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00:19:47,680
would be the best feeling one can have.
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00:19:54,129
And it also includes things like, you
know, doing things for your family,
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00:19:54,139 -->
00:19:57,819
doing things for your loved ones,
doing things for your friends, right?
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00:20:04,810
These things don't give you a
paycheck necessarily in and of itself,
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00:20:07,920
in most cases, at least, right?
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00:20:13,289
But they are things that we do, and as
humans, we actually, that's a privilege.
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00:20:18,959
That's something that we, we get to
do, and it's something that, um, you
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00:20:25,590
know, um, uh, It doesn't matter whether
you're, you're, it, it, it, it, there's
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00:20:29,400
no, um, uh, stock market for it.
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00:20:33,059
There's no, um, corporate tax on this.
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00:20:33,080 -->
00:20:38,199
There's no, there's, there,
there's no, that you do it for
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00:20:40,959
just a pure joy of doing so.
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00:20:42,809
And I feel like that.
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00:20:51,810
In education, um, it's, it's important
for us to think about that being like,
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00:20:56,520
that can't not be one of the goals,
you know, for our students to, to, to
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00:21:00,929
be there, to be at that, to have that
sort of, to be able to enjoy that.
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00:21:06,860
Um, and I, I do think that it really, to
me, I, I, I have, I have so much respect
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00:21:09,080
for, for all the fields, by the way.
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00:21:13,620
So I, I mean, it, it almost sounded
like the, I'm like beating up on,
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00:21:14,889
Hey, if you want to be a nurse.
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00:21:16,604
Don't do that because that's just a skill.
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00:21:20,764
No, actually, I think that people that
do it is because they have that passion,
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00:21:26,455
you know, but it would be terrible in
my mind for someone that don't have that
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00:21:32,855
passion and then they do it because they
heard it's a good way to get a paycheck.
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00:21:35,384
And then when they do that job.
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00:21:41,870
They do do get that paycheck and, and
I'm sure you can train them to the
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00:21:45,880
level where they can do it, but they
are just going to be unfulfilled.
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00:21:48,990
They're doing this where they really
want, they really want to be as an
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00:21:53,050
athlete or to be a painter or to be
a writer or to be something else,
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00:21:54,899
to be a communicator, you know?
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00:21:56,369
Yeah, no.
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00:22:03,340
And I mean, you have people like Abraham
Verghese, who, um, you know, doctor.
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00:22:08,254
And an incredible writer, you know, first
book about his experience working with
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00:22:11,235
AIDS patients in Tennessee in the 1990s.
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00:22:11,685 -->
00:22:16,085
And then he writes some incredible
novels where he could straddle that line
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00:22:24,554
between, you know, science, you know,
hardcore science as a very, I mean, well
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00:22:27,245
known and quite sort of renowned doctor.
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00:22:30,044
And at the same time,
An incredible writer.
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00:22:30,135 -->
00:22:34,584
And those are, you know, multiple
identities that our students already have.
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00:22:40,435
And it's a question of, again, how do
they, I think, establish new ones and keep
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00:22:48,074
adding to them and that they don't have
to be defined by discipline, right, right.
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00:22:48,284 -->
00:22:52,360
So that, you know, There there's
multiple ways of being that you
329
00:22:52,360 -->
00:22:54,020
can be the same body, right?
330
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00:22:58,230
You know, I usually, you know, say
to students, you can be interested
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00:23:01,569
in science and in art and in history.
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00:23:01,569 -->
00:23:04,819
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
333
00:23:04,819 -->
00:23:07,130
It's possible to have multiple interests.
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00:23:07,139 -->
00:23:10,309
You know, you talked about
Leonardo da Vinci earlier.
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00:23:10,645 -->
00:23:15,905
to be a painter who's interested in
anatomy and physics and engineering,
336
00:23:15,965 -->
00:23:18,264
and it's possible to be that person.
337
00:23:18,635 -->
00:23:23,205
You know, when we, when I conceived
of this project, part of, of what I
338
00:23:23,205 -->
00:23:27,514
was pushing back against is, you know,
students come into the college and they
339
00:23:27,524 -->
00:23:32,825
have to pick a major and Liberal Arts
became the place that you went if you
340
00:23:32,835 -->
00:23:34,845
weren't sure what you wanted to be.
341
00:23:34,865 -->
00:23:36,595
And that was somehow a bad thing.
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00:23:37,015 -->
00:23:37,425
All right.
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00:23:37,865
So.
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00:23:38,440 -->
00:23:43,520
People who want to be nurses or
engineers or any of the really
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00:23:43,520 -->
00:23:45,409
well defined programs, fine.
346
00:23:45,719 -->
00:23:48,309
You're not quite sure
yet what you want to do.
347
00:23:48,309 -->
00:23:51,309
Okay, go into Liberal Arts and
figure it out, and then you'll
348
00:23:51,309 -->
00:23:52,650
switch into something else.
349
00:23:53,089 -->
00:23:57,089
And we wanted to position the
Liberal Arts major as an end in
350
00:23:57,090 -->
00:24:00,280
itself, as a good thing to be.
351
00:24:00,500 -->
00:24:04,220
And we, we, you know, going
back to the template, this idea
352
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00:24:06,530
of helping students recognize.
353
00:24:07,114 -->
00:24:11,740
The value that Liberal Arts
Um, has in and of itself.
354
00:24:11,930 -->
00:24:14,000
Yes, it gives you all these skills.
355
00:24:14,260 -->
00:24:19,240
But yes, just being a creative,
curious person is a great thing
356
00:24:19,249 -->
00:24:25,829
to be and just as great as being a
nurse or an engineer or or a doctor.
357
00:24:26,030 -->
00:24:31,040
And, um, and also just even to say
to students studying the Liberal
358
00:24:31,040 -->
00:24:33,300
Arts open so many pathways to you.
359
00:24:33,300 -->
00:24:34,689
You can still be creative.
360
00:24:34,830 -->
00:24:39,620
the engineer or the nurse or, or the
doctor having studied Liberal Arts.
361
00:24:39,630 -->
00:24:44,539
But think about how much better you
will be because you, you understand
362
00:24:44,539 -->
00:24:46,870
more about people and cultures.
363
00:24:47,119 -->
00:24:51,010
If you're a healthcare professional
who understands, you know,
364
00:24:51,010 -->
00:24:54,659
more about different cultural
backgrounds of your patients, just
365
00:24:54,839 -->
00:24:58,830
how much better the standard of
care you could, you could offer.
366
00:24:59,100 -->
00:25:03,230
So we really wanted to make sure
that students realize the value.
367
00:25:03,795 -->
00:25:09,295
Of the Liberal Arts for them, whatever
pathway they eventually chose.
368
00:25:10,965 -->
00:25:12,145
I love that, Dionne.
369
00:25:12,165 -->
00:25:17,134
Um, by the way, uh, Demetri, you
know who else also is a fantastic
370
00:25:17,134 -->
00:25:19,115
writer, but also a physician?
371
00:25:20,264 -->
00:25:23,425
It's, um, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
372
00:25:23,425 -->
00:25:24,884
Who wrote Sherlock Holmes.
373
00:25:26,304 -->
00:25:26,914
True.
374
00:25:26,915 -->
00:25:30,314
You are still watching movies
on Sherlock Holmes today.
375
00:25:30,764 -->
00:25:34,850
And that was written in
the Late 1800s, right?
376
00:25:34,850 -->
00:25:36,070
I think it's late 1800s.
377
00:25:36,100 -->
00:25:36,550
It was written.
378
00:25:37,090 -->
00:25:42,429
And so, so, you know, this is, these are,
in other words, these are not new ideas.
379
00:25:42,429 -->
00:25:48,949
We have amazing people in our history
that we can look back in and say, wow,
380
00:25:48,979 -->
00:25:51,320
you know, these things happened, right?
381
00:25:51,430 -->
00:25:56,830
But, but how are we so, um, you
know, how are we, how are we missing
382
00:25:56,840 -->
00:25:58,190
these really important pieces?
383
00:25:58,360 -->
00:26:07,445
And I'm so glad that you You know,
beyond your program have taking a,
384
00:26:07,685 -->
00:26:11,795
uh, taking this so seriously and
going, hold on a minute, you know,
385
00:26:11,815 -->
00:26:17,085
we've got to, we've got to make,
make this a possibility for people.
386
00:26:17,895 -->
00:26:22,934
Now I want to maybe, um, um, we'll,
we'll wrap up in a minute, but I
387
00:26:22,935 -->
00:26:24,455
wanted to talk a little bit about.
388
00:26:26,240 -->
00:26:30,840
What you see, and this is something that,
you know, you might have some anecdotes
389
00:26:30,840 -->
00:26:34,510
or you might have some students as
examples, or just, you know, in general,
390
00:26:35,560 -->
00:26:39,160
your students going through this program,
they're creating these portfolios,
391
00:26:39,160 -->
00:26:40,740
they're doing these reflections.
392
00:26:41,260 -->
00:26:47,320
Can you give us some sort of like
example, some colors on what are
393
00:26:47,320 -->
00:26:51,960
the results like has have there have
students, you know, gone through this
394
00:26:51,960 -->
00:26:55,860
and going, wow, this changed my life or.
395
00:26:56,149 -->
00:26:56,520
Wow.
396
00:26:56,520 -->
00:27:00,060
And now I do this and that, um, like,
can you give us a little bit of that?
397
00:27:00,070 -->
00:27:05,169
So that people like, I think that
there's still this like illusion
398
00:27:05,339 -->
00:27:10,119
that, well, if you're starting to
become a mechanic, you can fix it.
399
00:27:10,199 -->
00:27:11,239
Um, okay.
400
00:27:11,279 -->
00:27:12,279
Like we got that.
401
00:27:12,550 -->
00:27:14,110
Um, if you studied.
402
00:27:14,345 -->
00:27:15,145
Liberal Arts.
403
00:27:15,325 -->
00:27:16,764
What are the results?
404
00:27:16,814 -->
00:27:20,475
And I'm talking about both the
tangible, like, Hey, maybe, you know,
405
00:27:20,485 -->
00:27:23,514
what jobs or what fields can they
go into, but also like, what else
406
00:27:23,514 -->
00:27:25,075
does it, does it come with that?
407
00:27:25,084 -->
00:27:28,044
We just, that, that correspond
to what we've been talking about,
408
00:27:30,495 -->
00:27:37,115
I think for me, um, I said before that
I teach first year seminar and first
409
00:27:37,115 -->
00:27:42,685
year seminar is where we introduce the
Liberal Arts Corey portfolio to students.
410
00:27:43,175 -->
00:27:45,019
And for me, yeah.
411
00:27:45,610 -->
00:27:53,830
What I love is students begin to
see themselves as whole individuals.
412
00:27:54,440 -->
00:28:02,380
They begin to understand that
When I'm exploring my major, I'm
413
00:28:02,380 -->
00:28:08,400
exploring the world and I'm exploring
myself so that they begin to make
414
00:28:08,430 -->
00:28:11,100
internal and external connections.
415
00:28:11,720 -->
00:28:17,099
So then, you know, the reflect
is, of course, prompted by
416
00:28:17,099 -->
00:28:21,564
reflection, but the imagination in.
417
00:28:21,925 -->
00:28:24,935
The innovation I can
see sparked in students.
418
00:28:26,025 -->
00:28:30,545
So, when we talk about things that
students don't expect to hear about,
419
00:28:30,565 -->
00:28:36,154
because in my case, they're science
majors, it's like a flower opening up.
420
00:28:36,155 -->
00:28:37,584
It's a really beautiful process.
421
00:28:40,075 -->
00:28:41,434
You feeling okay, Tonya?
422
00:28:42,705 -->
00:28:44,025
Feel free to take your time.
423
00:28:44,925 -->
00:28:47,705
You choked up there, really, thinking
about your students, I think.
424
00:28:50,525 -->
00:28:55,054
For those who are listening, Tonya, I
think, choked on a little bit of water,
425
00:28:55,054 -->
00:28:57,015
so she'll be back with us in a minute.
426
00:28:57,634 -->
00:28:58,784
But I could see how it's getting.
427
00:28:58,784 -->
00:29:04,774
You know, I can also, yeah, you
know, I think about the student
428
00:29:04,814 -->
00:29:09,234
last year who was the representative
for our graduating class.
429
00:29:09,684 -->
00:29:09,954
And.
430
00:29:11,315 -->
00:29:16,565
That was one of those experiences as
an educator where you really say, Yes,
431
00:29:16,575 -->
00:29:18,835
this is this is what we're striving for.
432
00:29:19,365 -->
00:29:23,864
She was a student who graduated
from our Liberal Arts, social
433
00:29:23,875 -->
00:29:28,454
science and humanities major,
and she was transferring.
434
00:29:28,715 -->
00:29:30,665
to become a biology major.
435
00:29:31,624 -->
00:29:36,084
And I was just like, wow, this
is exactly what I want to happen.
436
00:29:36,334 -->
00:29:41,154
I want a student to realize that
no pathway is closed off to them
437
00:29:41,434 -->
00:29:44,284
because they chose the Liberal Arts.
438
00:29:44,465 -->
00:29:49,885
And so she was going from a non
STEM major into a STEM major.
439
00:29:50,324 -->
00:29:55,174
And she talked about, she was
interviewed by, um, the university,
440
00:29:55,245 -->
00:29:56,824
um, student life office.
441
00:29:57,134 -->
00:30:03,325
And she talked about, how valuable
she found the Liberal Arts program at
442
00:30:03,325 -->
00:30:08,925
LaGuardia in exposing her to different
ideas across different disciplines.
443
00:30:09,244 -->
00:30:12,195
And I said, Yes, this
is my perfect graduate.
444
00:30:12,204 -->
00:30:15,675
This is what I hope to accomplish
that here we have a student who
445
00:30:15,694 -->
00:30:18,204
could without any prompting from us.
446
00:30:18,475 -->
00:30:22,325
I had no idea she was doing this
interview until I saw it published that
447
00:30:22,325 -->
00:30:29,520
she could talk so fluently about how
exposure to multiple ideas in multiple
448
00:30:29,520 -->
00:30:34,370
courses across the Liberal Arts major
was really valuable to her development.
449
00:30:34,570 -->
00:30:39,750
And she could then transition from this
major into being a biologist because
450
00:30:39,930 -->
00:30:44,590
having experienced all the different,
um, disciplines that we introduced her
451
00:30:44,870 -->
00:30:49,950
to, she could settle on, okay, yes, this
is the one that inspires my passions
452
00:30:49,970 -->
00:30:52,459
and makes me want to, to learn more.
453
00:30:53,010 -->
00:30:57,290
And I hope she never loses that in
whatever it is that she eventually,
454
00:30:57,750 -->
00:31:00,410
you know, lands on in her career.
455
00:31:02,290 -->
00:31:05,469
Um, I could also tell the story, because
I was trying to think, because I have
456
00:31:05,470 -->
00:31:10,720
not taught, um, well, upper level, 200
level courses in a while, LaGuardia.
457
00:31:11,150 -->
00:31:17,190
But I actually had, um, a scenario this
past, um, summer where I had a student
458
00:31:17,390 -->
00:31:20,380
who was finishing her associate's degree.
459
00:31:20,850 -->
00:31:25,750
At, um, at LaGuardia in
deaf, in, um, deaf studies.
460
00:31:26,240 -->
00:31:28,600
It's a Liberal Arts concentration, right?
461
00:31:28,600 -->
00:31:30,090
So it's a Liberal Arts degree.
462
00:31:30,770 -->
00:31:34,350
And, you know, she's like, you know,
I need to finish, I'm going to, you
463
00:31:34,350 -->
00:31:36,210
know, finish the degree to Oklahoma.
464
00:31:36,240 -->
00:31:42,280
So she took it as an opportunity to, you
know, come here and we started talking.
465
00:31:42,460 -->
00:31:46,260
And like I said to her, well, what are you
going to do when you go back to Oklahoma?
466
00:31:46,260 -->
00:31:48,300
She's like, well, I
want to be a translator.
467
00:31:48,330 -->
00:31:50,690
I'm like, yeah, is that it?
468
00:31:51,069 -->
00:31:56,620
You know, she was telling me the story
how every Sunday she was going to a, um,
469
00:31:57,669 -->
00:32:02,089
uh, a church with, um, deaf congregants.
470
00:32:02,160 -->
00:32:06,890
And I was like, let me tell you, girl, if
you were going to write a master's thesis,
471
00:32:07,305 -->
00:32:12,605
A sociological thesis on religion and the
deaf community, I would read it, right?
472
00:32:12,605 -->
00:32:14,755
And she's like, I'd
never thought about that.
473
00:32:15,145 -->
00:32:20,195
I mean, you know, it opens up
possibilities instead of saying, okay,
474
00:32:20,195 -->
00:32:21,635
I'm going to be a deaf translator.
475
00:32:21,655 -->
00:32:25,094
Well, how could you engage with
the world and understand it in
476
00:32:25,095 -->
00:32:26,609
ways that you never thought?
477
00:32:26,610 -->
00:32:27,450
possible.
478
00:32:27,810 -->
00:32:31,300
And that's just one small example,
but I mean, you know, she wrote me a
479
00:32:31,300 -->
00:32:36,140
lovely letter saying, Oh, thank you so
much that, you know, class that she was
480
00:32:36,150 -->
00:32:40,480
literally taking in her last semester,
all of a sudden opened her eyes.
481
00:32:40,480 -->
00:32:42,669
Like, I wish I knew this
at the very beginning.
482
00:32:43,020 -->
00:32:47,339
And yet I hope again, there was that
little sort of, as we say, imagination
483
00:32:47,420 -->
00:32:51,630
and possibility that the Liberal
Arts provides in that one student.
484
00:32:55,200 -->
00:32:56,399
That is so lovely.
485
00:32:56,440 -->
00:33:04,305
Um, Well, I, I feel like that's, first of
all, let's try to invite some of these.
486
00:33:04,710 -->
00:33:09,440
Students and graduates so that we can
have more conversations with them as well.
487
00:33:09,990 -->
00:33:12,830
So we're gonna, we're gonna,
we're gonna talk to them too.
488
00:33:12,830 -->
00:33:16,970
And we're gonna, you know, so
the people can, can see from your
489
00:33:16,970 -->
00:33:20,379
perspective, how you think about it,
but also from their perspective, right?
490
00:33:20,779 -->
00:33:24,339
Um, I think that would be a great,
um, some great follow up conversations
491
00:33:24,339 -->
00:33:25,919
that we should, we must have.
492
00:33:26,269 -->
00:33:30,459
Uh, but I also want to just
say how grateful I am that you
493
00:33:30,479 -->
00:33:32,199
three are here to share these.
494
00:33:32,565 -->
00:33:40,335
Different perspectives and how grateful
again and thankful that I am to have
495
00:33:40,335 -->
00:33:46,154
the opportunity to work with you all
and seeing what you're able to, to
496
00:33:46,154 -->
00:33:48,445
accomplish, uh, with your students.
497
00:33:48,455 -->
00:33:57,145
These are like really very seriously
inspiring highlights and, and I, um, I
498
00:33:57,145 -->
00:34:03,565
am, uh, I am just so, um, amazed by the
continuous drive to continue to do that.
499
00:34:03,715 -->
00:34:09,215
And I think it's because your
institution has that Liberal Arts,
500
00:34:09,955 -->
00:34:12,755
um, foundation as driven by that.
501
00:34:12,755 -->
00:34:17,354
I think you had mentioned earlier
from Gail Mello, who my met years ago.
502
00:34:17,354 -->
00:34:18,534
And she's amazing.
503
00:34:18,535 -->
00:34:20,635
She has created this
amazing culture there.
504
00:34:20,994 -->
00:34:23,574
And, and you all think in this way.
505
00:34:23,914 -->
00:34:31,330
Um, and I, I just, I just love that,
um, for folks who don't know, um enough
506
00:34:31,330 -->
00:34:34,860
about LaGuardia Community College,
please Google them, check them out.
507
00:34:35,290 -->
00:34:41,440
Um, they, this is what a wonderful
institution, um, and for folks who,
508
00:34:41,490 -->
00:34:48,029
um, who, um, are not, who, who may
not have been exposed to what Liberal
509
00:34:48,029 -->
00:34:49,910
Arts education can do for you.
510
00:34:50,745 -->
00:34:55,775
Um, check out that paper, you will see,
you know, I think you'll be inspired
511
00:34:55,775 -->
00:34:59,815
just like I did, even though it's a,
it's really written as an academic paper.
512
00:34:59,825 -->
00:35:04,315
I think I thought it was, um, you
know, suitable for anyone to read.
513
00:35:04,775 -->
00:35:09,594
Um, uh, you may not, you know, need
to read every little piece of it.
514
00:35:09,594 -->
00:35:13,695
It's a long paper, but there will be
enough that you'll get a lot out of it.
515
00:35:14,055 -->
00:35:20,055
Um, and, and this stuff that, you know,
Dionne and Tonya, and Demetri are sharing.
516
00:35:20,640 -->
00:35:24,440
They're not just, you know, things
that are, you know, just nice
517
00:35:24,440 -->
00:35:28,770
to have, and they just happen
to do it for fun, for no reason.
518
00:35:29,030 -->
00:35:33,300
You know, this is backed by lots of
research, lots of efforts, and huge
519
00:35:33,300 -->
00:35:37,980
amount of commitment by dedicated
people who have found their meanings.
520
00:35:37,995 -->
00:35:42,115
The life and have, have dedicated
that purpose to building these so that
521
00:35:42,165 -->
00:35:44,095
other people can enjoy it as well.
522
00:35:44,385 -->
00:35:47,985
And so I hope that you all go in and
check this out and congratulations
523
00:35:47,985 -->
00:35:49,724
again for all your successes.
524
00:35:49,765 -->
00:35:52,855
I, and I hope that we get to talk
again soon and we'll get some of
525
00:35:52,855 -->
00:35:56,364
your students and graduate to come on
this and then we'll have you guys to
526
00:35:56,364 -->
00:35:59,625
come on this afterwards as well, and
then, and then see how they all go.
527
00:35:59,865 -->
00:36:00,165
Okay.
528
00:36:00,205 -->
00:36:02,025
We'll, we'll keep, keep in touch.
529
00:36:02,435 -->
00:36:03,785
Thank you so much.
530
00:36:04,025 -->
00:36:05,405
Thank you so much for having us.
531
00:36:06,520 -->
00:36:10,790
Here's a preview of what's coming up next
in part two of my conversation with Tonya
532
00:36:10,790 -->
00:36:16,159
Hendrix, Demetri Kapetanakos, and Dionne
Miller from LaGuardia Community College.
533
00:36:17,280 -->
00:36:20,890
So being able to question and really
choose what is valuable and what
534
00:36:20,900 -->
00:36:25,880
matters is something that Bucknell has
really, has allowed me to practice.
