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Welcome to the Catchfire podcast with Dr
Jason Young. We help inspire modern day
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leaders to find their spark and ignite
a culture that can't be extinguished. Let's
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join Jason and this week's guest.
I'm excited to have Logan Lyles on the
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podcast today. He is the VP
of customer experience at Sweet Fish Media.
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Cool name. They produce podcasts for
the most innovative be tob brands in the
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world. Their strategy comes behind a
phrase they created a two thousand and eight
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teen called content based networking, which
we are going to unpack it. Don't
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sweat it. He is also the
cohost of BTB growth podcast, where he
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flexes my words, his respectable question
asking skills, slogan. I'm grateful you're
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hanging out here today. You give
me too much credit on my hosting skills,
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but actually that that was the great
intro. Appreciate. Yeah, I
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had that. What I was right
to get up that I had to.
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I need something interesting other than he
host a podcast or he asked questions.
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So I'm like, what kind of
juice it up with? And Man,
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that's my attempt at level them up. I love it. I love it.
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Yeah, hosting is really interesting.
I think you're doing a great job
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so far with this show and you
know, you just get it's sets and
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Reps. really to go with the
you know, keep going with the muscle
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building analogy, I guess. Yeah, yeah, it's right and Nice.
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Nice see you're quick on that.
Cook on the draw. All right,
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so let's do this as let's established
clear to on a phrase I use when
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introducing you, content based networking.
So for those listening, I mean like
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I think I've heard of that.
Have a heard of that? So we'll
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just bring clarity to it, help
us understand what that means and why sweet
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phish media chose that direction. Absolutely, Jason. You know a lot of
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people that they hear that and they're
like, oh, yeah, I know
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what content marketing is, and we're
like, hold on, we're not talking
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about content based that, we're not
talking about content marketing. Content marketing is
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part of content based networking. But
the simplest way I can explain, based
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on something that you probably have in
your mind when you hear content based networking,
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and what it actually is, let's
look at content marketing, creating content
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for your ideal buyers so that you
attract them to know about your company,
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see your thought leadership and eventually hope
to want to buy your product or service.
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Right, we understand content marketing.
Hub Spot, you know, more
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than ten years ago, really drove
content marketing in a new way and inbound
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marketing, content based networking, as
opposed to create and content just for your
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ideal buyers. Content based networking is
creating content with your ideal buyers. So,
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for instance, if you have a
podcast, right, instead of just
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creating a podcast, like in our
instance at Swee Fish, about our expertise.
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We know a lot about podcasting,
we're going to create a podcast,
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develop our thought leadership and share our
knowledge. That would be a great thing.
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That would be good content marketing,
content based networking. What we've done
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with the show that you mentioned be
to be growth. We said, Hey,
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let's create a show where we can
bring on people who fit our buy
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our persona and let them talk about
their expertise. We may go up a
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level from our product or service in
podcasting and go to be to be marketing,
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which is why the show is called
be to be growth. But two
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things happen. We create better content
because it's not just focused on our expertise,
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though we can. We can double
down there for a specific episode or
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series or something. We create more
helpful content that is going to engage a
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broader audience within the people that we
want to talk to. Number two,
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they're hearing from their peers. Right, especially last year when events and everything
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started to get shut down. How
do I hear from my peers? How
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do I talk to them about what
they're doing? If you have a podcast
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where you're interviewing peers of the people
that you want to sell to, then
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they're going to lean forward. And
then number three, even if no one
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listens, even if only your mom
listens, then the podcasts where your content
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efforts, with content based networking,
can drive revenue because you are building relationships.
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I'll be at one to one rather
than one too many with the people
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that could buy from you. Those
can impact your business at the same time,
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all the while it's still generating reach
because you're creating content. So reach
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and relationships, or really the two
hours of content based networking. Yeah,
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I remember you telling me that,
I don't know if it was last year,
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and I was like, dude,
that makes perfect sense, you know.
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So all right, let's talk about
you, right, let all attention
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on you. So you sit in
the seat responsible for creating a remarkable customer
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experience. By the way, if
you're listening, I have this guilty thing
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of using customer and guest interchangeably.
So if you hear I'm I see you
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talking about the same person, the
answer is yes. Okay, so you're
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you're in the seat responsible for creating
a remarkable customer experience at sweetfish. Do
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you have let values or guiding principles
that show up when you help that particular
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customer? Absolutely. I'll talk about
this and kind of two layers, Jason.
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So the first are our core values
at sweetfish, which really infuse everything
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that we do internally externally. So
it has to be part of our CX
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or our customer experience. So one
is love people well, right, and
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that is I mean you know our
founder and CEO, James, and you
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know where the the heart behind this
core value comes from, and we try
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to celebrate that call that out when
we see, you know, one of
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our producers who realizes that a customer
is out because of an emergency surgery or
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something says hey, can we use
some of our quote unquote, love well
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budget to send them some flowers to
their hotel room on the on the company
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dime. We do that. We
celebrate that on slack and so love people
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well is definitely key to our CEXTRAPGY. Number two is never up learning,
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and that is all about just this
continuous pursuit of personal and career development.
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And so we know that if we're
leveling up our team, then we're going
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to provide a better customer experience.
For instance, right now, you know,
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over the last three years that I've
been with sweetfish, we've built a
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great engine for helping our customers create
a lot of content. Now we're figuring
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out how do we help them make
that content better and keep it consistent quality
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and consistency. And then our third
core value is own the result, which
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is, you know, when you
mess up, own it, yes,
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but also as opposed to saying,
well, I have these tasks that relate
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to this overall thing, this overall
project or company goal or whatever, I'm
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going to do my thing and once
I check that off, it's good.
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Own the results is no, look
further down the road. What are you
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doing, what is it contributing to, and how can you take grass and
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take ownership of the result that you're
contributing to with with your day to day
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tasks and so that you know,
can look as simple as when we're scheduling
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calls with customers. Something I recommend
to our CX team. Don't just say
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hey, Jason, your customer,
we need to do a check in.
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Let's meet next week is are there
any times that are good for you own
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the result would say be more proactive
and say hey, Jason, I went
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ahead and picked a time on the
calendar that probably is going to work for
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you next Friday afternoon. It's not
tomorrow, right, but I'm assuming you
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know next Friday's maybe a little bit
flexible. So I put a time on
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your calendar in case that works.
If it doesn't, here's my link to
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pick a new one. And we
see customers like Oh, thank you,
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you made that super easy, right. So those are really guiding principles for
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us at sweetish and how they filter
down to C x. Now there are
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a few other kind of mantras or
catch phrases we've been using pretty consistently here
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recently. One is the platinum rule, the other is be the dentist and
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the third is beat the question.
Happy to unpack those if you want to
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go a little bit deeper where we
can. We can keep going and let
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people kind of, you know,
assume what we're talking about there in a
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CX perspective. Yeah, of the
three, just pick one it. Yeah,
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packet force, love it. So
my favorite is be the dentist.
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So when I took over cx in
October, November of two thousand and twenty,
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you know, one of the big
things that I recognized is that our
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value of love people. Well,
we were stepping out in that maybe in
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a way that that wasn't always helpful. It was, you know, we'd
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have customers and say, Hey,
could we do this? Could you do
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this sort of video for my show? Could can we do this with our
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graphics on our podcast? And we
would say yes, yes, yes,
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we want to love you, we
want to serve you. Will say yes
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to anything, and we were responding
to customers as opposed to saying look,
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we've launched over a hundred bb shows, right, we've been doing this for
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over half a decade. Yes,
we'll take your thoughts, but we're the
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dentist, where the expert, and
just because you say, Hey, I
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think you we need to pull this
tooth, doesn't mean we should jump in
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and just say yeah, sure,
whatever you want. Right. We should
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take that and say, well,
actually, based on all of this collective
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knowledge, here's what we should what
we would actually recommend, here's what we
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could do. It would be a
plan be we don't think it would be
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as good as our proposed plan a, but it's closer to what you mentioned,
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which really we would put as a
plan. See, and so that's
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a little tougher conversation, but it
is ultimately loving, loving people well by
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giving them the right advice, and
when you're in a service based business,
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there's a lot of that nuance.
So I wanted to turn the dial from
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reacting to suggesting, to prescribing,
and our customers, you know, did
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not really push back on that.
As we've turned that dial there like yes,
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you're the experts, tell us,
tell us, we're hungry for this,
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we're just coming up with stuff because
we thought it was worthwhile. The
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ass don't just say yes to us. So that be the DNS. It's
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not the customers always right, it's
you know, the customer has an idea.
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Doesn't mean you're always right, but
it means that you have a responsibility
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to bring your authority and your expertise
to apply to the customer situation and make
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it better. Well, and when
I think about that as the as the
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customer, the more I see that
and the more I experience the positive result,
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the deeper the trust is with you, sweet fish, the sex team,
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etc. So there's a there's multiple
results and wins and buy products from
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you know, from that approach and
to think about the principles. You know,
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what I love about them is,
ever, everybody, everybody's on the
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same page. So it's you know, they're like filters and we can make
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decisions through these filters and it's not, oh, what is slogan thing to
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James and Jason and it's like then
you end up completely different islands. It's
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like, wait a minute, but
if we make a decision through these filters,
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it takes the burden off of the
subjectivity and it's like no, we
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do this. You know, these
are kind of guides and guard rails that
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filters, etc. So I love
I love that because we don't drift.
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Leaders organizations don't drift that direction.
We drift the opposite direction. So I'll
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love that. Let me ask you
this as it relates to guests. What
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what have you discovered that guests really
want and their experience with you and your
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organization. You know, I don't
know if I've fully answered this, Jason,
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but I do. I have an
assumption and we're wrestling with how this
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assumption actually plays out. So Great
Book on Customer Experience I recommend to anyone
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listening is never lose a customer again, by Joey Coleman. I read that
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book when I took over C X. I started looking at, think the
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eight different phases that he has an
and looking at how do we address each
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one of those. And there's a
line from that book that says, you
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know, we always say that the
customer doesn't want to know how the sausages
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made, but overwhelmingly that is proven
untrue by statistics from HBR and others.
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I might be miss quoting there,
but he said somewhere e side of the
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source. And where we see that
in our organization is, you know,
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we're launching a new podcast for a
customer and if they don't have even if
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we're kind of meeting the here's what's
going to happen next, Jason, and
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and then we meet that and then
here, if they don't have a vision
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of where we going, are we
on track. When are we going to
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hit? Help me see further down
the road of what you're planning, what
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you're going to be doing for me, and let me know what you're doing
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along the way so that I can
kind of rest assured that I'm not going
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to show up to my call next
week with you and check in and nothing's
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going to be done. So sometimes
we assume like, oh, the customer
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doesn't want to see kind of behind
the curtain, but we found that the
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more that you can give them that
visibility are one of our managers said the
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other day. You know, they
want to see how the sausages made,
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maybe not how the pig gets slaughtered. So use that analogy to maybe draw
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the line. But I would say
the line is is further back than what
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you think, that the more visibility
and transparency you can give to your customers,
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the more, again to your point, that trust is going to build.
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When I can pull up Amazon and
see, oh, that thing is
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four stops away, then I'm even
though you already gave me it will be
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delivered by today, right, which
we get from them and from others.
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But sometimes we don't always truss that
because sometimes it says it's gonna be delivered
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by today, but it's not right. But when you can see on the
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map that there four stops away,
all right, sweet. So that trans
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parency and visibility can be really important, more so than what we think about
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in a customer experience. Yeah,
and I think the assumption is and maybe
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this is my assumption and I tried
to get better this, but the more
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polished it is, the more they
trust. And sometimes, it seems when
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it's not as polished or we invite
them to the development part or the parts
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that aren't perfect. You know what
I'm doing. Air quotes. You can't
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see I'm about to do it.
Are quotes. Actually think that that might
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build more trust because it lets them
in on the growing and developing and it's,
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I don't know, it just feels
more here human. I've got a
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great story that actually, you know, approves that point. End of last
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year we were migrating all of our
customers from one podcast hosting platform, libs
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in, to another that we now
partner with, called Sounder FM, and
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in that process set we pick sounder
because they were heading in the right direction.
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Better analytics, new stuff coming,
but some of it was at work
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in progress. There analytics tool was
going through a major overhaul, and so
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some customers, one in particular I
can remember, was like hey, we
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made this transition. When are the
analytics coming? You know, I keep
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curing this. Hopefully next week,
hopefully next week. And candidly we had
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had to push it back because of
the developments on with our tech partner.
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And then when when I jumped in
and said look, the analytics are going
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through a major overhaul, here's everything
that's coming, but there's still some development
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work are customer was like, Oh, I thought this was just an access
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thing. I didn't realize there was
development going on in the back end for
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some new features, which I'm happy
to wait a little bit for. But
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having that context changed in his mind. Were we running behind or we trying
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to build something new that he's really
going to be excited about and happy to
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work wait for just a little bit? Yeah, that's good. By the
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way, I switched to sounder based
on y'all's recommendation. So thanks for thanks
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for that. I trust you.
Guys. All right, so you you
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actually made a I'm gonna ask you
about something that you said. Actually,
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you wrote this and I going to
unpack it. I know right what people
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preface a question to me like that, I'm like, on my word,
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I don't even know what I said, like a bigger deal than than I
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am right now. No one has
ever said like, Oh, you've been
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quoted before, is saying, but
shoot, let's do it. I got
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you right. This is what I
says. What defined companies that elevate the
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role of customer experience just how deeply
their customer centric purpose is embedded throughout all
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aspects of the organization? All right. So so here's my question to your
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statement. How can any organization,
Church nonprofit business, how can they intentionally
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focus on making sure their focus is
customer centric throughout their organization and not just
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isolate it in a department? And
this is a really good question. I
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think that there's there's no one silver
bullet. If it were, if it
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were easy, everybody would be doing
it right. But I think more often
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than not we it sounds Cliche,
but we tend not to put ourselves in
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our customers shoes. One thing we
did recently was we had our CEO bill
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read. He launched a podcast called
the CEO show and he's talking to other
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operations leaders, other EOS integrators,
and we did it because, okay,
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it's going to be a thought leadership
play and a content based networking play for
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one of our leadership team members,
but also that we could pressure test our
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own customer experience and identify some of
our blind spots. Because Bill's been with
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the Organization for several years, he's
integral to our leadership team, he's not
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as in touch with the day to
day of what customers experience, what the
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decisions, you know, that we
make kind of on the front lines,
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little tweaks here and there, and
so we said, well, let's let
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him experience it right and we did
that and sixty ninety days later he came
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back to the rest of the leadership
team on one of our meetings and gave
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us some feedback, some good,
some critical, and it was a really
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good exercise to say, hold on, let's stop assuming what our customers are
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feeling, let's do everything we can
to put ourselves in our customers shoes.
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And and you know, almost quite
literally, that's what we did there.
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And so I think those sorts of
practices of stopping and saying, well,
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when have we heard from our customers
on this? Like we're debating this.
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Should we go talk to four to
five customers like it doesn't. Getting the
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customers perspective doesn't always mean we have
to organize this huge marketing or customer feedback
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campaign with Poles and done. It
might just be now, maybe that's good
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right, but it might just be
that that's over here on one end of
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the spectrum, for those of you
can't see video, I holding up my
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hand, on one end. On
the other end is we're running campaigns and
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poles and everything else. The other
end of the spectrum that we drift towards
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is, well, we think we
know what's best, let's just make the
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decisions. And somewhere in the middle
is maybe like, Hey, I'm going
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to call up for or five customers
and just say, hey, we're debating
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on this. If you were going
to make the call as the customer,
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what would you like to see?
And I think those are the practical ways
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that you have empathy for your customers, that you put yourself in their shoes,
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which sounds cliche but it really is
fundamental. You just have to look
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for some ways to do that and
you have to identify when you're not doing
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that, which is, you know, easier said than done. Well,
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and I think two questions that a
customer subconsciously asks. In the example that
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you gave. Again, I don't
think the customer knows that they're asking,
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but a customer desperately wants the answer
and listening to you, and I suspect
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it's this. Do I matter?
So, as a customer, do a
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matter? and Are you there for
me? And so if a company,
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at Church and nonprofit can demonstrate you
matter and I'm there for you, in
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one of the best vehicles is empathy. You know. So I love that
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you brought that at all. Right, I got to ask you. So
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you quoted or you mention a book
that you read earlier. When you read
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or when you listen to podcasts,
do you ever listen or read something that
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you're like? No, you're like
you, you disagree with you, it
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irritates you, but yet somebody's kind
of bannering it, you know, in
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their podcast or in an article or
book anything as that ever experience. been
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an experience for you? This probably
relates more to the sales side. So
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you know, depending on how you
define customer experience, you might incorporate sales,
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you might even incorporate marketing. I
tend to, and not necessarily,
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how we structure things at sweetfish.
But how I think about customer experience.
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That begins every time, you know, the beginning of seeing a billboard and
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online add a social media post from
your brand or your organization. That's part
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of the customer experience, the sales
process or whatever sort of registration or sign
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up process, and then once they
sign on the dotted line or become a
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member or whatever the case is,
that's also the customer experience. And so
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I think it's it's an umbrella over
there. And I think one thing that
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people, you know, say out
there, at least on kind of the
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sales for recruiting or development business development
side, is like, you know,
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people don't care about your product,
they just care about, you know,
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the problem that you saw of oftentimes
that leads us to well, we don't
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need people to really understand our product, really understand our service and be able
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to speak to it. Like I
hate when I'm doing a demo of a
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tech product and I'm like, how
does this and how does this integrate with
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hub spot? How does this?
You know, what if I'm using Gmail
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versus outlook, what are the differences
and using your product? And I get
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this. I need to talk to
a sales engineer or something there and to
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me, when people are educating themselves
through content that you're putting out, whether
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you're a nonprofit or business, they're
coming to you more informed than they did
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in yours past, and whoever that
first person is to explain your services or
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your product, they need to keep
that in mind and less take the I
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need to convince you of why you
want to be a member or why you
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want to buy our product or service
and more. Hey, Jason, you're
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thinking about this. Your obvious you
obviously I already understand the strategy of content's
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networking. You're thinking about a podcast. Let's talk about what this will look
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like if and when you become a
customer, and sales almost taking on the
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role of customer success kind of prematurely, and I think that if you're in
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the camp of you know, people
don't really care about your product, your
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service. What are the details?
Maybe I'm just, you know, too
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much of a detail, or any
person with any a gram nine as a
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one wing, but for me that
makes a big difference and it answers that
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question. Do I matter, do
my questions matter, and are you going
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to take care of me? Because
I want to know that those details that
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care, that matter to me,
that they matter to you too. Yeah,
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that's good. Okay. So,
you know, you talking about caring
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for guests. That's one thing.
It's it's who you are, it's in
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your role. But how does the
rest of the team? How do you
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get them to care for guests like
you do? Yeah, I think it
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is. You've got to look for
the coach Bowl moments right. So you
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know, I oversee sales and customer
experience today here at Sweetfish, and part
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of the experience that a lot of
people don't think about is invoicing right and
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accounts receivable, when our finance team
is saying hey, you haven't paid your
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invoice. On me follow up here. And so you know, at times
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I've been not necessarily more involved their
spending collection, emails and that sort of
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thing. But when I see an
email from our finance team, looking at
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okay, is this how I would
recommend someone on our CX team approach this
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issue? Are they being the dentist
or they loving people? Well, are
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they owning the result? Right?
Looking at that and then saying Oh,
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hey, hey, something we do
on the customer experience team that I think
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you could apply to the situation would
be Dada, DA, DA, Da.
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Maybe how I would tweak this email
or how often I would follow up
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there. So I don't have a
you know, an answer that is like
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well, implement this for process,
but look for opportunities that your customer success
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or customer experienced team the mantras that
they live by. How can you look
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for coachable moments for other departments to
adopt those as well, and then,
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you know, talking about those having
I mean there is a very specific reason
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we have three core values, not
six or seven like we used to.
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We've actually implemented these mantras as what
we call culture signals within sweetfish. We
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have managers looking for ways to bring
them up in conversation, to celebrate them,
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to work them into all hands meetings. So if you can develop those,
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maybe that is more of a framework
than when I'm thinking and just explaining
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kind of what we're doing at sweetish. Develop those things that you want to
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see and then repeat them often,
share examples, celebrate the winds and celebrate,
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you know, that mantra or that
value or that principle as much as
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you're celebrating the person as opposed to
going on slack and being like Hey,
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y'all, jason just wrote this fantastic
email to a customer. You know,
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that was awesome. Great job,
Jason. Now that might be good.
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Now what would be better is like, Oh, this was a great example
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of loving people. Well, great
job Jason. Now I've now I've reinforced
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the value and I've celebrated the person
and now I've, you know, reinforced
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that some more. That's good.
We know not everything will go just right
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with the customer. When it doesn't, how do you? How do you
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respond? And other situations are different, but what what guide you to respond
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kindly and quickly? Yeah, so
one thing I do is we use a
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tool called Bombom to send one to
one personal video messages. You can use
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it in slack or Microsoft teams,
you can use it via email, you
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can even use it to send video
messages on social and we use it a
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lot with customers and we hear some
great feedback. So one thing I will
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do is customer brings up an issue, maybe it's kind of a sticky situation
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that I'm going to have to pull
in some other people. I'm have to
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dig into what happened. You know, we're going to have to determine how
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to respond. Then we're going to
actually have to respond. And so sometimes
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a customer, you know, they
just finish and they hit enter on this
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upset email, or at least you
know, maybe some sort of angsty email,
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and then they sit for two days
without a response. So, you
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know, good would be. Hey
Jason, thank you for sending this.
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It's going to take me two days
to kind of rally the troops and develop
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a plan of action, or two
hours or whatever the case is, right,
378
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but respond immediately, kind of like
I hear you. It's important,
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you matter right. I'm going to
need until X to actually develop out the
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response. So one don't fall into
the trap of I can't respond until I
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have the perfect response. Respond immediately
with something now a second layer to that.
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What I do, and what I
recommend to our team is add some
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human touch to it. Right.
Hey Jason, thank you so much for
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00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:18.569
letting us know this, so we
have an opportunity to write the ship before
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this gets worse. Here's what I'm
doing. Here's when you can expect to
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00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:25.650
hear back for me if you need
anything else. In meantime, I'm here,
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and that fifteen second video can convey
that humanity and that connection a little
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bit more. So that's that's one
thing I do. The other thing that
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I recommend there's a framework out of
a book that I read recently called the
390
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expansion sale, Tim resterer and I
forget his co author's name, but if
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you check out Amazon the expansion sale, they have a framework for what they
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called that. I'm sorry, moments
and I don't have it committed to memory
393
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enough to say exactly what the steps
are. But but there is a way
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that we commonly do it, in
a way that they recommend that switches a
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few things and I can't speak to
that. What we normally want to do
396
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is take things in chronological order.
Right, Hey, Jason, I'm really
397
00:27:06.859 --> 00:27:11.819
sorry. Here's what happened. It
started with the NA back in three thousand
398
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BC when this process was developed,
and then then it led to this,
399
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:18.049
and then so and said was off, and then this, and you recap
400
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the chronological order of events of what
led to the mistake or their problem.
401
00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:26.730
Right, and based on what we
were talking about earlier, you might think
402
00:27:26.730 --> 00:27:29.809
you're doing a good thing, kind
of feeling back the curtain and showing that
403
00:27:29.890 --> 00:27:33.720
transparency. But, Jason, have
you ever been. Have you ever lost
404
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:38.799
your luggage? Yes, okay,
when you have spent five minutes waiting for
405
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.960
that airline customer service Rep to get
on the phone and answer you, what
406
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.990
is the very first thing? You
want to know? When am I going
407
00:27:48.029 --> 00:27:49.589
to get it? Where is exactly
get it? When am I going to
408
00:27:49.670 --> 00:27:52.509
get it right? You want to
know what does the immediate next step?
409
00:27:52.589 --> 00:27:56.069
So in those, I'm sorry,
moments, what Tim Rester and the the
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authors of the expansion sale say is
is you want to express, you want
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to give the story and all that
sort of stuff, but lead with this
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00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:07.099
is what we're doing immediately to address
your situation. I'm very sorry. This
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00:28:07.180 --> 00:28:11.819
shouldn't have happened. Here's what led
to it. Here's what we're doing to
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00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.569
keep it from happening again. And
so often we kind of flip those yeah,
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00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:18.210
and they're just not listening to our
heartfelt, sincere apology and they're just
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00:28:18.329 --> 00:28:22.210
like where's my bag? What am
I going to get my bag? Yeah,
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00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:26.170
lead with where their bag is,
right and then once they take a
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00:28:26.250 --> 00:28:29.799
breath and they know they've got some
information, now they're in a better space
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00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.519
to hear the explanation, the apology
and what you're doing to remedy it.
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00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.720
Yeah, I love that. I
mean basic psychology. When somebody has heightened
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00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:42.869
emotions, their clarity of understanding is
it's just clouded in a moment, and
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00:28:42.990 --> 00:28:47.710
so it's like help uncloud it,
if that's if that's a word, and
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then so I like the reverse engineering
of that. I know we don't have
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a lot of time left. Let
me ask you this as a leader of
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00:28:53.789 --> 00:29:00.740
a team and leader on the customer
experience side. For you personally, what
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00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:07.380
is one lesson you are learning that
that you feels making you a better leader?
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00:29:08.539 --> 00:29:12.529
I don't have to do it all. HMM. You know, last
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00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:18.569
November when I took over cxit sweet
fish, we implemented a new plot process,
429
00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:22.369
what we call QPR's quarterly podcast reviews. It's a time for us to
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00:29:22.410 --> 00:29:25.200
sit down with customers, look at
where we've been, review some of their
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00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.119
stats and success of their show,
look at where we are. There any
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00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.799
housekeeping items or anything bugging you right
now? Anything we could do to address
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00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.039
the process and then do some consulting
on looking forward. You know, I
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00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:37.119
built out that process the first quarter. We did them. I ran all
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00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.990
of those meetings for for a handful
of our select customers. Then we rolled
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00:29:42.029 --> 00:29:45.869
it out to the whole team and
you know, I had envisioned that by
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00:29:45.910 --> 00:29:49.470
the end of this year, are
producers in the front lines would be leading
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00:29:49.509 --> 00:29:53.779
all of those meetings. We got
halfway through the year and we were already
439
00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:59.539
there. So you can delegate oftentimes
faster than what you think you can and
440
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:03.140
it's going to have an outsized impact. I heard Craig Grochell, who's one
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00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:08.130
of my favorite leadership virtual mentors if
you were a yes in this podcast all
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00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:11.809
the time. You know, again, I might not quote the stats exactly,
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00:30:11.890 --> 00:30:15.690
but he says, you know,
people say if someone can do something
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00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:18.690
eighty percent as well as you and
be trained the other twenty percent, delegate
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00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:23.039
it. He said. I would
say if it's fifty percent plus and they
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00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:27.519
have you know you see that fifty
percent as being you know they can make
447
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.559
up for that with added training and
stuff along the way, go ahead and
448
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:34.990
delegate it sooner because you're going to
be able to grow and scale that impact
449
00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:38.349
more quickly. So that's what my
struggle with, letting go. Not being
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00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:42.630
the bottleneck is the leader. But
you've also got to check with your team
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00:30:42.630 --> 00:30:45.150
and see, all right, do
you need a road map or you someone
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00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:48.910
who I can kind of cast a
vision too and have you work out the
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00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:52.579
details. Now we get into all
sorts of coaching and Manet and stuff from
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00:30:52.579 --> 00:30:56.259
there, but that would be my
encouragement. That often we tend to hang
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00:30:56.339 --> 00:31:00.579
on to stuff for longer, do
it ourselves more than we actually have to,
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00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:03.140
and we're limiting our impact and we're
limiting the growth of our team and
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00:31:03.450 --> 00:31:07.529
the customer experience at the same time. I love that. Well, Logan,
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00:31:07.529 --> 00:31:10.970
I want to say that you have
been a very kind leader to me.
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00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:14.690
If you're listening right now, what
you don't know the number of calls,
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00:31:14.730 --> 00:31:18.839
video chat emails that Logan has answered
just helping me figure out a podcast
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00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:25.440
world and just leadership space, and
so for that I'm I am really grateful.
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00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:30.000
And so if you're if you're a
business and you're considering, man,
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00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.829
okay, this whole be to be
podcast like we don't know where to start
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00:31:33.829 --> 00:31:36.990
or what to do. Well,
I want you to check out sweet fish
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00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:42.069
Mediacom and I'll say that Logan,
his team, the company, Awesome Group
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00:31:42.150 --> 00:31:47.700
of people, and I will also
say this. They post remarkable Dan James
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00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:52.859
Logan. They promote, promote and
post remarkable content on Linkedin, and so
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00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:55.099
I want to encourage you to check
that out. But Logan, thank you
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00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:56.980
one for being a friend and to
for making me better as a leader and
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00:31:57.099 --> 00:32:00.690
helping out so many businesses. Thanks
for having me today this and I really
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00:32:00.730 --> 00:32:05.210
appreciate him in all right, buddy. Thank you for listening to the catch
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00:32:05.329 --> 00:32:08.849
fire podcast. If you enjoyed the
conversation, subscribe and share it with others.
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00:32:09.769 --> 00:32:15.170
Connect with catch fire on facebook,
instagram and Linkedin. Until the next
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00:32:15.210 --> 00:32:20.640
episode, stop by Catch Fire Dailycom
for helpful resources to find your spark.
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00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:07.710
Welcome to the Catchfire podcast with Dr
Jason Young. We help inspire modern day
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00:00:07.790 --> 00:00:13.429
leaders to find their spark and ignite
a culture that can't be extinguished. Let's
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00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:19.190
join Jason and this week's guest.
I'm excited to have Logan Lyles on the
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00:00:19.269 --> 00:00:24.699
podcast today. He is the VP
of customer experience at Sweet Fish Media.
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Cool name. They produce podcasts for
the most innovative be tob brands in the
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00:00:29.539 --> 00:00:33.259
world. Their strategy comes behind a
phrase they created a two thousand and eight
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00:00:33.259 --> 00:00:37.609
teen called content based networking, which
we are going to unpack it. Don't
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00:00:37.609 --> 00:00:41.329
sweat it. He is also the
cohost of BTB growth podcast, where he
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00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:47.409
flexes my words, his respectable question
asking skills, slogan. I'm grateful you're
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00:00:47.409 --> 00:00:50.960
hanging out here today. You give
me too much credit on my hosting skills,
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00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.960
but actually that that was the great
intro. Appreciate. Yeah, I
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had that. What I was right
to get up that I had to.
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I need something interesting other than he
host a podcast or he asked questions.
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So I'm like, what kind of
juice it up with? And Man,
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that's my attempt at level them up. I love it. I love it.
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Yeah, hosting is really interesting.
I think you're doing a great job
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so far with this show and you
know, you just get it's sets and
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Reps. really to go with the
you know, keep going with the muscle
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building analogy, I guess. Yeah, yeah, it's right and Nice.
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Nice see you're quick on that.
Cook on the draw. All right,
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so let's do this as let's established
clear to on a phrase I use when
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introducing you, content based networking.
So for those listening, I mean like
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I think I've heard of that.
Have a heard of that? So we'll
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just bring clarity to it, help
us understand what that means and why sweet
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phish media chose that direction. Absolutely, Jason. You know a lot of
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people that they hear that and they're
like, oh, yeah, I know
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what content marketing is, and we're
like, hold on, we're not talking
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about content based that, we're not
talking about content marketing. Content marketing is
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part of content based networking. But
the simplest way I can explain, based
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on something that you probably have in
your mind when you hear content based networking,
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and what it actually is, let's
look at content marketing, creating content
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for your ideal buyers so that you
attract them to know about your company,
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see your thought leadership and eventually hope
to want to buy your product or service.
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Right, we understand content marketing.
Hub Spot, you know, more
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than ten years ago, really drove
content marketing in a new way and inbound
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marketing, content based networking, as
opposed to create and content just for your
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ideal buyers. Content based networking is
creating content with your ideal buyers. So,
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for instance, if you have a
podcast, right, instead of just
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creating a podcast, like in our
instance at Swee Fish, about our expertise.
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We know a lot about podcasting,
we're going to create a podcast,
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develop our thought leadership and share our
knowledge. That would be a great thing.
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That would be good content marketing,
content based networking. What we've done
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with the show that you mentioned be
to be growth. We said, Hey,
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let's create a show where we can
bring on people who fit our buy
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our persona and let them talk about
their expertise. We may go up a
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level from our product or service in
podcasting and go to be to be marketing,
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which is why the show is called
be to be growth. But two
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things happen. We create better content
because it's not just focused on our expertise,
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though we can. We can double
down there for a specific episode or
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series or something. We create more
helpful content that is going to engage a
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broader audience within the people that we
want to talk to. Number two,
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they're hearing from their peers. Right, especially last year when events and everything
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started to get shut down. How
do I hear from my peers? How
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do I talk to them about what
they're doing? If you have a podcast
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where you're interviewing peers of the people
that you want to sell to, then
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they're going to lean forward. And
then number three, even if no one
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listens, even if only your mom
listens, then the podcasts where your content
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efforts, with content based networking,
can drive revenue because you are building relationships.
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I'll be at one to one rather
than one too many with the people
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that could buy from you. Those
can impact your business at the same time,
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all the while it's still generating reach
because you're creating content. So reach
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and relationships, or really the two
hours of content based networking. Yeah,
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I remember you telling me that,
I don't know if it was last year,
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and I was like, dude,
that makes perfect sense, you know.
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So all right, let's talk about
you, right, let all attention
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on you. So you sit in
the seat responsible for creating a remarkable customer
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experience. By the way, if
you're listening, I have this guilty thing
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of using customer and guest interchangeably.
So if you hear I'm I see you
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talking about the same person, the
answer is yes. Okay, so you're
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you're in the seat responsible for creating
a remarkable customer experience at sweetfish. Do
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you have let values or guiding principles
that show up when you help that particular
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customer? Absolutely. I'll talk about
this and kind of two layers, Jason.
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So the first are our core values
at sweetfish, which really infuse everything
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that we do internally externally. So
it has to be part of our CX
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or our customer experience. So one
is love people well, right, and
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that is I mean you know our
founder and CEO, James, and you
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know where the the heart behind this
core value comes from, and we try
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to celebrate that call that out when
we see, you know, one of
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our producers who realizes that a customer
is out because of an emergency surgery or
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something says hey, can we use
some of our quote unquote, love well
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budget to send them some flowers to
their hotel room on the on the company
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dime. We do that. We
celebrate that on slack and so love people
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well is definitely key to our CEXTRAPGY. Number two is never up learning,
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and that is all about just this
continuous pursuit of personal and career development.
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And so we know that if we're
leveling up our team, then we're going
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to provide a better customer experience.
For instance, right now, you know,
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over the last three years that I've
been with sweetfish, we've built a
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great engine for helping our customers create
a lot of content. Now we're figuring
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out how do we help them make
that content better and keep it consistent quality
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and consistency. And then our third
core value is own the result, which
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is, you know, when you
mess up, own it, yes,
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but also as opposed to saying,
well, I have these tasks that relate
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to this overall thing, this overall
project or company goal or whatever, I'm
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going to do my thing and once
I check that off, it's good.
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Own the results is no, look
further down the road. What are you
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doing, what is it contributing to, and how can you take grass and
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take ownership of the result that you're
contributing to with with your day to day
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tasks and so that you know,
can look as simple as when we're scheduling
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calls with customers. Something I recommend
to our CX team. Don't just say
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hey, Jason, your customer,
we need to do a check in.
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Let's meet next week is are there
any times that are good for you own
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the result would say be more proactive
and say hey, Jason, I went
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ahead and picked a time on the
calendar that probably is going to work for
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you next Friday afternoon. It's not
tomorrow, right, but I'm assuming you
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know next Friday's maybe a little bit
flexible. So I put a time on
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your calendar in case that works.
If it doesn't, here's my link to
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pick a new one. And we
see customers like Oh, thank you,
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you made that super easy, right. So those are really guiding principles for
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us at sweetish and how they filter
down to C x. Now there are
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a few other kind of mantras or
catch phrases we've been using pretty consistently here
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recently. One is the platinum rule, the other is be the dentist and
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the third is beat the question.
Happy to unpack those if you want to
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go a little bit deeper where we
can. We can keep going and let
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people kind of, you know,
assume what we're talking about there in a
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CX perspective. Yeah, of the
three, just pick one it. Yeah,
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packet force, love it. So
my favorite is be the dentist.
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So when I took over cx in
October, November of two thousand and twenty,
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you know, one of the big
things that I recognized is that our
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value of love people. Well,
we were stepping out in that maybe in
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a way that that wasn't always helpful. It was, you know, we'd
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have customers and say, Hey,
could we do this? Could you do
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this sort of video for my show? Could can we do this with our
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graphics on our podcast? And we
would say yes, yes, yes,
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we want to love you, we
want to serve you. Will say yes
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to anything, and we were responding
to customers as opposed to saying look,
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we've launched over a hundred bb shows, right, we've been doing this for
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over half a decade. Yes,
we'll take your thoughts, but we're the
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dentist, where the expert, and
just because you say, Hey, I
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think you we need to pull this
tooth, doesn't mean we should jump in
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and just say yeah, sure,
whatever you want. Right. We should
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take that and say, well,
actually, based on all of this collective
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knowledge, here's what we should what
we would actually recommend, here's what we
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could do. It would be a
plan be we don't think it would be
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as good as our proposed plan a, but it's closer to what you mentioned,
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which really we would put as a
plan. See, and so that's
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a little tougher conversation, but it
is ultimately loving, loving people well by
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giving them the right advice, and
when you're in a service based business,
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there's a lot of that nuance.
So I wanted to turn the dial from
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reacting to suggesting, to prescribing,
and our customers, you know, did
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not really push back on that.
As we've turned that dial there like yes,
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you're the experts, tell us,
tell us, we're hungry for this,
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we're just coming up with stuff because
we thought it was worthwhile. The
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ass don't just say yes to us. So that be the DNS. It's
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not the customers always right, it's
you know, the customer has an idea.
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Doesn't mean you're always right, but
it means that you have a responsibility
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to bring your authority and your expertise
to apply to the customer situation and make
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it better. Well, and when
I think about that as the as the
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customer, the more I see that
and the more I experience the positive result,
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the deeper the trust is with you, sweet fish, the sex team,
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etc. So there's a there's multiple
results and wins and buy products from
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you know, from that approach and
to think about the principles. You know,
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what I love about them is,
ever, everybody, everybody's on the
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same page. So it's you know, they're like filters and we can make
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decisions through these filters and it's not, oh, what is slogan thing to
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James and Jason and it's like then
you end up completely different islands. It's
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like, wait a minute, but
if we make a decision through these filters,
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it takes the burden off of the
subjectivity and it's like no, we
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do this. You know, these
are kind of guides and guard rails that
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filters, etc. So I love
I love that because we don't drift.
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Leaders organizations don't drift that direction.
We drift the opposite direction. So I'll
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love that. Let me ask you
this as it relates to guests. What
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what have you discovered that guests really
want and their experience with you and your
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organization. You know, I don't
know if I've fully answered this, Jason,
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but I do. I have an
assumption and we're wrestling with how this
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assumption actually plays out. So Great
Book on Customer Experience I recommend to anyone
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listening is never lose a customer again, by Joey Coleman. I read that
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book when I took over C X. I started looking at, think the
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eight different phases that he has an
and looking at how do we address each
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one of those. And there's a
line from that book that says, you
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know, we always say that the
customer doesn't want to know how the sausages
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made, but overwhelmingly that is proven
untrue by statistics from HBR and others.
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I might be miss quoting there,
but he said somewhere e side of the
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source. And where we see that
in our organization is, you know,
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we're launching a new podcast for a
customer and if they don't have even if
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we're kind of meeting the here's what's
going to happen next, Jason, and
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and then we meet that and then
here, if they don't have a vision
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of where we going, are we
on track. When are we going to
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hit? Help me see further down
the road of what you're planning, what
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you're going to be doing for me, and let me know what you're doing
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along the way so that I can
kind of rest assured that I'm not going
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to show up to my call next
week with you and check in and nothing's
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going to be done. So sometimes
we assume like, oh, the customer
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doesn't want to see kind of behind
the curtain, but we found that the
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more that you can give them that
visibility are one of our managers said the
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other day. You know, they
want to see how the sausages made,
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maybe not how the pig gets slaughtered. So use that analogy to maybe draw
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the line. But I would say
the line is is further back than what
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you think, that the more visibility
and transparency you can give to your customers,
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the more, again to your point, that trust is going to build.
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When I can pull up Amazon and
see, oh, that thing is
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four stops away, then I'm even
though you already gave me it will be
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delivered by today, right, which
we get from them and from others.
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But sometimes we don't always truss that
because sometimes it says it's gonna be delivered
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by today, but it's not right. But when you can see on the
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map that there four stops away,
all right, sweet. So that trans
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parency and visibility can be really important, more so than what we think about
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in a customer experience. Yeah,
and I think the assumption is and maybe
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this is my assumption and I tried
to get better this, but the more
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polished it is, the more they
trust. And sometimes, it seems when
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it's not as polished or we invite
them to the development part or the parts
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that aren't perfect. You know what
I'm doing. Air quotes. You can't
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see I'm about to do it.
Are quotes. Actually think that that might
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build more trust because it lets them
in on the growing and developing and it's,
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I don't know, it just feels
more here human. I've got a
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great story that actually, you know, approves that point. End of last
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year we were migrating all of our
customers from one podcast hosting platform, libs
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in, to another that we now
partner with, called Sounder FM, and
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in that process set we pick sounder
because they were heading in the right direction.
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Better analytics, new stuff coming,
but some of it was at work
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in progress. There analytics tool was
going through a major overhaul, and so
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some customers, one in particular I
can remember, was like hey, we
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made this transition. When are the
analytics coming? You know, I keep
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curing this. Hopefully next week,
hopefully next week. And candidly we had
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had to push it back because of
the developments on with our tech partner.
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And then when when I jumped in
and said look, the analytics are going
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through a major overhaul, here's everything
that's coming, but there's still some development
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work are customer was like, Oh, I thought this was just an access
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thing. I didn't realize there was
development going on in the back end for
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some new features, which I'm happy
to wait a little bit for. But
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having that context changed in his mind. Were we running behind or we trying
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to build something new that he's really
going to be excited about and happy to
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work wait for just a little bit? Yeah, that's good. By the
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way, I switched to sounder based
on y'all's recommendation. So thanks for thanks
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for that. I trust you.
Guys. All right, so you you
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actually made a I'm gonna ask you
about something that you said. Actually,
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you wrote this and I going to
unpack it. I know right what people
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preface a question to me like that, I'm like, on my word,
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I don't even know what I said, like a bigger deal than than I
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am right now. No one has
ever said like, Oh, you've been
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quoted before, is saying, but
shoot, let's do it. I got
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you right. This is what I
says. What defined companies that elevate the
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role of customer experience just how deeply
their customer centric purpose is embedded throughout all
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aspects of the organization? All right. So so here's my question to your
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statement. How can any organization,
Church nonprofit business, how can they intentionally
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focus on making sure their focus is
customer centric throughout their organization and not just
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isolate it in a department? And
this is a really good question. I
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think that there's there's no one silver
bullet. If it were, if it
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were easy, everybody would be doing
it right. But I think more often
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than not we it sounds Cliche,
but we tend not to put ourselves in
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our customers shoes. One thing we
did recently was we had our CEO bill
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read. He launched a podcast called
the CEO show and he's talking to other
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operations leaders, other EOS integrators,
and we did it because, okay,
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it's going to be a thought leadership
play and a content based networking play for
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one of our leadership team members,
but also that we could pressure test our
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own customer experience and identify some of
our blind spots. Because Bill's been with
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the Organization for several years, he's
integral to our leadership team, he's not
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as in touch with the day to
day of what customers experience, what the
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decisions, you know, that we
make kind of on the front lines,
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little tweaks here and there, and
so we said, well, let's let
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him experience it right and we did
that and sixty ninety days later he came
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back to the rest of the leadership
team on one of our meetings and gave
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us some feedback, some good,
some critical, and it was a really
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good exercise to say, hold on, let's stop assuming what our customers are
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feeling, let's do everything we can
to put ourselves in our customers shoes.
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And and you know, almost quite
literally, that's what we did there.
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And so I think those sorts of
practices of stopping and saying, well,
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when have we heard from our customers
on this? Like we're debating this.
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Should we go talk to four to
five customers like it doesn't. Getting the
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customers perspective doesn't always mean we have
to organize this huge marketing or customer feedback
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campaign with Poles and done. It
might just be now, maybe that's good
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right, but it might just be
that that's over here on one end of
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the spectrum, for those of you
can't see video, I holding up my
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hand, on one end. On
the other end is we're running campaigns and
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poles and everything else. The other
end of the spectrum that we drift towards
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is, well, we think we
know what's best, let's just make the
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decisions. And somewhere in the middle
is maybe like, Hey, I'm going
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to call up for or five customers
and just say, hey, we're debating
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on this. If you were going
to make the call as the customer,
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what would you like to see?
And I think those are the practical ways
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that you have empathy for your customers, that you put yourself in their shoes,
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which sounds cliche but it really is
fundamental. You just have to look
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for some ways to do that and
you have to identify when you're not doing
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that, which is, you know, easier said than done. Well,
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and I think two questions that a
customer subconsciously asks. In the example that
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you gave. Again, I don't
think the customer knows that they're asking,
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but a customer desperately wants the answer
and listening to you, and I suspect
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it's this. Do I matter?
So, as a customer, do a
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matter? and Are you there for
me? And so if a company,
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at Church and nonprofit can demonstrate you
matter and I'm there for you, in
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one of the best vehicles is empathy. You know. So I love that
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you brought that at all. Right, I got to ask you. So
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you quoted or you mention a book
that you read earlier. When you read
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or when you listen to podcasts,
do you ever listen or read something that
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you're like? No, you're like
you, you disagree with you, it
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irritates you, but yet somebody's kind
of bannering it, you know, in
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their podcast or in an article or
book anything as that ever experience. been
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an experience for you? This probably
relates more to the sales side. So
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you know, depending on how you
define customer experience, you might incorporate sales,
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you might even incorporate marketing. I
tend to, and not necessarily,
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how we structure things at sweetfish.
But how I think about customer experience.
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That begins every time, you know, the beginning of seeing a billboard and
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online add a social media post from
your brand or your organization. That's part
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of the customer experience, the sales
process or whatever sort of registration or sign
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up process, and then once they
sign on the dotted line or become a
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member or whatever the case is,
that's also the customer experience. And so
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I think it's it's an umbrella over
there. And I think one thing that
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people, you know, say out
there, at least on kind of the
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sales for recruiting or development business development
side, is like, you know,
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people don't care about your product,
they just care about, you know,
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the problem that you saw of oftentimes
that leads us to well, we don't
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need people to really understand our product, really understand our service and be able
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to speak to it. Like I
hate when I'm doing a demo of a
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tech product and I'm like, how
does this and how does this integrate with
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hub spot? How does this?
You know, what if I'm using Gmail
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versus outlook, what are the differences
and using your product? And I get
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this. I need to talk to
a sales engineer or something there and to
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me, when people are educating themselves
through content that you're putting out, whether
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you're a nonprofit or business, they're
coming to you more informed than they did
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in yours past, and whoever that
first person is to explain your services or
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your product, they need to keep
that in mind and less take the I
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need to convince you of why you
want to be a member or why you
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want to buy our product or service
and more. Hey, Jason, you're
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thinking about this. Your obvious you
obviously I already understand the strategy of content's
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networking. You're thinking about a podcast. Let's talk about what this will look
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like if and when you become a
customer, and sales almost taking on the
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role of customer success kind of prematurely, and I think that if you're in
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the camp of you know, people
don't really care about your product, your
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service. What are the details?
Maybe I'm just, you know, too
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much of a detail, or any
person with any a gram nine as a
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one wing, but for me that
makes a big difference and it answers that
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question. Do I matter, do
my questions matter, and are you going
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to take care of me? Because
I want to know that those details that
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care, that matter to me,
that they matter to you too. Yeah,
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that's good. Okay. So,
you know, you talking about caring
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for guests. That's one thing.
It's it's who you are, it's in
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your role. But how does the
rest of the team? How do you
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get them to care for guests like
you do? Yeah, I think it
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is. You've got to look for
the coach Bowl moments right. So you
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know, I oversee sales and customer
experience today here at Sweetfish, and part
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of the experience that a lot of
people don't think about is invoicing right and
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accounts receivable, when our finance team
is saying hey, you haven't paid your
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invoice. On me follow up here. And so you know, at times
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I've been not necessarily more involved their
spending collection, emails and that sort of
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thing. But when I see an
email from our finance team, looking at
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okay, is this how I would
recommend someone on our CX team approach this
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issue? Are they being the dentist
or they loving people? Well, are
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they owning the result? Right?
Looking at that and then saying Oh,
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hey, hey, something we do
on the customer experience team that I think
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you could apply to the situation would
be Dada, DA, DA, Da.
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Maybe how I would tweak this email
or how often I would follow up
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there. So I don't have a
you know, an answer that is like
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well, implement this for process,
but look for opportunities that your customer success
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or customer experienced team the mantras that
they live by. How can you look
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for coachable moments for other departments to
adopt those as well, and then,
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you know, talking about those having
I mean there is a very specific reason
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we have three core values, not
six or seven like we used to.
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We've actually implemented these mantras as what
we call culture signals within sweetfish. We
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have managers looking for ways to bring
them up in conversation, to celebrate them,
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to work them into all hands meetings. So if you can develop those,
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maybe that is more of a framework
than when I'm thinking and just explaining
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kind of what we're doing at sweetish. Develop those things that you want to
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see and then repeat them often,
share examples, celebrate the winds and celebrate,
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you know, that mantra or that
value or that principle as much as
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you're celebrating the person as opposed to
going on slack and being like Hey,
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y'all, jason just wrote this fantastic
email to a customer. You know,
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that was awesome. Great job,
Jason. Now that might be good.
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Now what would be better is like, Oh, this was a great example
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of loving people. Well, great
job Jason. Now I've now I've reinforced
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the value and I've celebrated the person
and now I've, you know, reinforced
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that some more. That's good.
We know not everything will go just right
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with the customer. When it doesn't, how do you? How do you
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respond? And other situations are different, but what what guide you to respond
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kindly and quickly? Yeah, so
one thing I do is we use a
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tool called Bombom to send one to
one personal video messages. You can use
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it in slack or Microsoft teams,
you can use it via email, you
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can even use it to send video
messages on social and we use it a
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lot with customers and we hear some
great feedback. So one thing I will
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do is customer brings up an issue, maybe it's kind of a sticky situation
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that I'm going to have to pull
in some other people. I'm have to
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dig into what happened. You know, we're going to have to determine how
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to respond. Then we're going to
actually have to respond. And so sometimes
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a customer, you know, they
just finish and they hit enter on this
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upset email, or at least you
know, maybe some sort of angsty email,
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and then they sit for two days
without a response. So, you
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know, good would be. Hey
Jason, thank you for sending this.
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It's going to take me two days
to kind of rally the troops and develop
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a plan of action, or two
hours or whatever the case is, right,
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00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:55.349
but respond immediately, kind of like
I hear you. It's important,
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you matter right. I'm going to
need until X to actually develop out the
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response. So one don't fall into
the trap of I can't respond until I
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have the perfect response. Respond immediately
with something now a second layer to that.
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What I do, and what I
recommend to our team is add some
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human touch to it. Right.
Hey Jason, thank you so much for
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letting us know this, so we
have an opportunity to write the ship before
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this gets worse. Here's what I'm
doing. Here's when you can expect to
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hear back for me if you need
anything else. In meantime, I'm here,
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and that fifteen second video can convey
that humanity and that connection a little
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bit more. So that's that's one
thing I do. The other thing that
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I recommend there's a framework out of
a book that I read recently called the
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expansion sale, Tim resterer and I
forget his co author's name, but if
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00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:47.990
you check out Amazon the expansion sale, they have a framework for what they
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called that. I'm sorry, moments
and I don't have it committed to memory
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enough to say exactly what the steps
are. But but there is a way
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that we commonly do it, in
a way that they recommend that switches a
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few things and I can't speak to
that. What we normally want to do
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is take things in chronological order.
Right, Hey, Jason, I'm really
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sorry. Here's what happened. It
started with the NA back in three thousand
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BC when this process was developed,
and then then it led to this,
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and then so and said was off, and then this, and you recap
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the chronological order of events of what
led to the mistake or their problem.
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00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:26.730
Right, and based on what we
were talking about earlier, you might think
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00:27:26.730 --> 00:27:29.809
you're doing a good thing, kind
of feeling back the curtain and showing that
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00:27:29.890 --> 00:27:33.720
transparency. But, Jason, have
you ever been. Have you ever lost
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00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:38.799
your luggage? Yes, okay,
when you have spent five minutes waiting for
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00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.960
that airline customer service Rep to get
on the phone and answer you, what
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00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.990
is the very first thing? You
want to know? When am I going
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00:27:48.029 --> 00:27:49.589
to get it? Where is exactly
get it? When am I going to
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00:27:49.670 --> 00:27:52.509
get it right? You want to
know what does the immediate next step?
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00:27:52.589 --> 00:27:56.069
So in those, I'm sorry,
moments, what Tim Rester and the the
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00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.700
authors of the expansion sale say is
is you want to express, you want
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00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:03.539
to give the story and all that
sort of stuff, but lead with this
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is what we're doing immediately to address
your situation. I'm very sorry. This
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00:28:07.180 --> 00:28:11.819
shouldn't have happened. Here's what led
to it. Here's what we're doing to
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keep it from happening again. And
so often we kind of flip those yeah,
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00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:18.210
and they're just not listening to our
heartfelt, sincere apology and they're just
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00:28:18.329 --> 00:28:22.210
like where's my bag? What am
I going to get my bag? Yeah,
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00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:26.170
lead with where their bag is,
right and then once they take a
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00:28:26.250 --> 00:28:29.799
breath and they know they've got some
information, now they're in a better space
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00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.519
to hear the explanation, the apology
and what you're doing to remedy it.
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00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.720
Yeah, I love that. I
mean basic psychology. When somebody has heightened
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00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:42.869
emotions, their clarity of understanding is
it's just clouded in a moment, and
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00:28:42.990 --> 00:28:47.710
so it's like help uncloud it,
if that's if that's a word, and
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then so I like the reverse engineering
of that. I know we don't have
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a lot of time left. Let
me ask you this as a leader of
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00:28:53.789 --> 00:29:00.740
a team and leader on the customer
experience side. For you personally, what
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00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:07.380
is one lesson you are learning that
that you feels making you a better leader?
427
00:29:08.539 --> 00:29:12.529
I don't have to do it all. HMM. You know, last
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00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:18.569
November when I took over cxit sweet
fish, we implemented a new plot process,
429
00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:22.369
what we call QPR's quarterly podcast reviews. It's a time for us to
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00:29:22.410 --> 00:29:25.200
sit down with customers, look at
where we've been, review some of their
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00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.119
stats and success of their show,
look at where we are. There any
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00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.799
housekeeping items or anything bugging you right
now? Anything we could do to address
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00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.039
the process and then do some consulting
on looking forward. You know, I
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00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:37.119
built out that process the first quarter. We did them. I ran all
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00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.990
of those meetings for for a handful
of our select customers. Then we rolled
436
00:29:42.029 --> 00:29:45.869
it out to the whole team and
you know, I had envisioned that by
437
00:29:45.910 --> 00:29:49.470
the end of this year, are
producers in the front lines would be leading
438
00:29:49.509 --> 00:29:53.779
all of those meetings. We got
halfway through the year and we were already
439
00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:59.539
there. So you can delegate oftentimes
faster than what you think you can and
440
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:03.140
it's going to have an outsized impact. I heard Craig Grochell, who's one
441
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:08.130
of my favorite leadership virtual mentors if
you were a yes in this podcast all
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00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:11.809
the time. You know, again, I might not quote the stats exactly,
443
00:30:11.890 --> 00:30:15.690
but he says, you know,
people say if someone can do something
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00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:18.690
eighty percent as well as you and
be trained the other twenty percent, delegate
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00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:23.039
it. He said. I would
say if it's fifty percent plus and they
446
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:27.519
have you know you see that fifty
percent as being you know they can make
447
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.559
up for that with added training and
stuff along the way, go ahead and
448
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:34.990
delegate it sooner because you're going to
be able to grow and scale that impact
449
00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:38.349
more quickly. So that's what my
struggle with, letting go. Not being
450
00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:42.630
the bottleneck is the leader. But
you've also got to check with your team
451
00:30:42.630 --> 00:30:45.150
and see, all right, do
you need a road map or you someone
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00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:48.910
who I can kind of cast a
vision too and have you work out the
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00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:52.579
details. Now we get into all
sorts of coaching and Manet and stuff from
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00:30:52.579 --> 00:30:56.259
there, but that would be my
encouragement. That often we tend to hang
455
00:30:56.339 --> 00:31:00.579
on to stuff for longer, do
it ourselves more than we actually have to,
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00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:03.140
and we're limiting our impact and we're
limiting the growth of our team and
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00:31:03.450 --> 00:31:07.529
the customer experience at the same time. I love that. Well, Logan,
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00:31:07.529 --> 00:31:10.970
I want to say that you have
been a very kind leader to me.
459
00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:14.690
If you're listening right now, what
you don't know the number of calls,
460
00:31:14.730 --> 00:31:18.839
video chat emails that Logan has answered
just helping me figure out a podcast
461
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:25.440
world and just leadership space, and
so for that I'm I am really grateful.
462
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:30.000
And so if you're if you're a
business and you're considering, man,
463
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.829
okay, this whole be to be
podcast like we don't know where to start
464
00:31:33.829 --> 00:31:36.990
or what to do. Well,
I want you to check out sweet fish
465
00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:42.069
Mediacom and I'll say that Logan,
his team, the company, Awesome Group
466
00:31:42.150 --> 00:31:47.700
of people, and I will also
say this. They post remarkable Dan James
467
00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:52.859
Logan. They promote, promote and
post remarkable content on Linkedin, and so
468
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:55.099
I want to encourage you to check
that out. But Logan, thank you
469
00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:56.980
one for being a friend and to
for making me better as a leader and
470
00:31:57.099 --> 00:32:00.690
helping out so many businesses. Thanks
for having me today this and I really
471
00:32:00.730 --> 00:32:05.210
appreciate him in all right, buddy. Thank you for listening to the catch
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00:32:05.329 --> 00:32:08.849
fire podcast. If you enjoyed the
conversation, subscribe and share it with others.
473
00:32:09.769 --> 00:32:15.170
Connect with catch fire on facebook,
instagram and Linkedin. Until the next
474
00:32:15.210 --> 00:32:20.640
episode, stop by Catch Fire Dailycom
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