Signs, Synchronicities & Skepticism w/ Arianna Smith

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Hello, creative spirits.
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Welcome back to your creative and magical life, which is hopefully your real life all day, every day, but is also this podcast because I know it's hard to feel creative and magical all day every day.
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And maybe we're not supposed to, but it is challenging in these times in this world.
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So may this podcast be a boost to your magic and creativity, a source of inspiration, a little bit of guidance as you continue to walk your path.
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I'm Cecily Saylor, I'm your host, I'm a tarot reader, I'm a writer, I'm a creativity coach.
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I am at your service in the ways of magic and creativity.
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And I'm excited to bring you another episode.
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This one in a more timely fashion than they have been coming of late.
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Very exciting.
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It's another episode with our friend, our wonderful friend Ariana Smith back on the show.
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And in this episode, we are talking about signs and synchronicities.
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It's a nice follow-up to our conversation about manifestation.
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And we get into different ways that we use signs and synchronicities in our lives and some of the limitations of such things.
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So I hope it speaks to you.
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There's a couple things I want to tell you before we get into it.
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One, I was noticing as I listened back that we talk a little bit early on as we're catching up about Hawaii because Ariana recently visited there and we were both reflecting on how Hawaii is amazing.
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It's wonderful to be on the islands, and they're just incredible and enchanted and so beautiful.
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The nature is just marvelous.
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And at the same time, we also realize when we're visiting Hawaii that it's really weird and strange and a bit icky to put it mildly, that Hawaii is actually part of the United States.
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It's way out in the Pacific Ocean, it's nowhere near the United States.
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I mean, it's kind of, you know, we could say the same of Puerto Rico, and which is not a state, but uh it's such a rabbit hole, isn't it, my friends?
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What I want to say is that as I'm reflecting back on listening to the episode, I talk about how it's really strange that Hawaii's part of the United States.
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It seems wrong.
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And at the same time, what I didn't mention is that like all the land that we're on in the United States, similar to Hawaii, was stolen, was not belonging to the Europeans who came and settled here and brought a lot of violence and established the nation that will celebrate its 250th birthday in a week or two.
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So I just wanted to note that it's not just Hawaii, even though that's what we talk about.
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And then I also want to mention, changing the subject quite a bit, that I also mention as we're catching up that I'm presenting at the Summer Solstice Tarot Summit, hosted by Shannon Knight, who is the host of the Tarot Diagnosis podcast, which you may also listen to.
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And I'm really excited to be presenting for an hour on how tarot can support us with our creativity under capitalism.
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There are a lot of other amazing presenters.
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It's a full weekend.
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It ranges from tarot, astrology, ritual, psychology, witchcraft, more advanced systems within the tarot.
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So there's a lot to enjoy.
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It's June 26th through 28th.
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Tickets are available.
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You can use the code Cecily15.
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I'll put this in the show notes.
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It's my name, all caps.
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Cecil with a Y.
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That's how I tell people how to spell it when they ask me, because I get asked that a lot.
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Cecil with a Y.
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So 15, all caps, that's the code.
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You can save 15% on your ticket.
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You have 90 days to enjoy all of the workshops.
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You get 30 days of free membership in Shannon Knight's symposium.
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There's also some giveaways and prizes, but it's gonna be a really beautiful weekend to deepen your practice, to go down a few new rabbit holes with your creative and magical experience as an embodied human.
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So yeah, link in the show notes, check it out.
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And I'll just also mention we recorded this in mid-March, and right now it's mid-June, so three months later.
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Three months have passed, it's really neither here nor there.
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I think the content is applicable still.
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Signs and synchronicities have been relevant for thousands of years, and they are still relevant now.
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But I'm catching up, I'm getting you these episodes.
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I have some more in The Hopper.
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We're gonna come back to the series on the major arcana, picking up with the moon, the sun, and judgment.
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And then I have one more before we get there with someone Ariana connected me with where we talk about tarot and parts work, IFS.
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So that's coming next, hopefully in another quick little two weeks, keeping things going this summer for you, for me.
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So thanks for being here.
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Thanks for listening.
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Let's get to the show.
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I hope you enjoy.
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It's been a minute.
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I missed you.
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Thanks, thanks for coming.
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I missed you too, Cecily, and it's been so fun to stay in touch with you though while I was traveling and have some really juicy things to talk about with folks.
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Now that I'm back.
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Yes, and some of what we talked about is how we got to this topic for the episode: signs and synchronicities, which I think are a critical aspect of living a mystical and witchy life, but also, you know, kind of a strange phenomenon.
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But let's let's check in for a second.
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What is new with you?
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I feel like I wanna hear about your big win.
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The Yeah, I bet you do.
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I know.
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I've been waiting to hear about that.
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We have to lead with that.
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Okay, well, thanks to your pitch party, I submitted a proposal to Shannon Knight, who's the host of the tarot diagnosis podcast, which has many, many listeners, and Shannon has a lot of followers.
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She does great work around the tarot and also a therapist.
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So, like the tarot in psychotherapy, the tarot in parts work, and she has a membership called the Symposium.
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So I was pitching a workshop to the symposium, and then several months passed, like I did not hear anything, and I was like, well, maybe she's not taking people, maybe she didn't like my pitch.
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And then I got an email, and she was starting to plan for her summer solstice tarot summit, and she liked my pitch, and she wanted to have a chat on Zoom, and we had a lot of Capricorn alignments and a really good talk, and I'm getting to present at this three-day summit, and I did that while I was in the pitch party.
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I think I started most of it and then, like, you know, double-checked it right after the party and submitted it.
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So that's the only thing I did, and it worked.
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Yay! That's amazing.
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Do we get to hear what you're gonna talk about in the summit?
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And you said it's the summer.
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Yeah, it's June 26, 27, 28, and I am talking about tarot as a tool for creative enchantment under toxic capitalism.
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My fave topic.
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Very timely, very, very timely.
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And like, how can we how can we exist under these systems as creative, mystical, magical beings?
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Well, I can't wait to listen and to hear about it.
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And yeah, I'm excited, yeah, and whenever it's live, let me know too.
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Of course, I can share with my witchy circle.
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Yes, and then my only other little updates.
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Um, we just started the deck and walk.
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We're just starting because the Aries season starts tomorrow, and I'm really excited.
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The community's really lovely, they're excited, and I think they're glad we're doing it together.
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You can do a deck and walk by yourself, but why if you don't have to?
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At least not your first time.
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So, what's up with you?
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Well, I mentioned I had been traveling and doing some other things.
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So my partner and I took a trip to Hawaii, um, which was really lovely.
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And I just feel like I made for the tropical climate.
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There's just something about it that feels so good.
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And my partner and I both have really curly hair, so it's really fun to see like how wild, just getting to be wild that way.
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And then I timed that trip with uh I'm a program assistant for an IFS level one training, and so I timed that trip to Dovetail with a week that I was a program assistant, and being in that space, being in an IFS space for like a week just feels like its own amazing retreat in and of itself.
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And so I really feel like even though I was technically quote unquote working for that week, I feel like I had a couple weeks kind of getting to take a break from things, and I came back and realized just some shifts that I wanted to make around how I relate to work and life, and so I finally signed up for a pottery class with my partner.
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I'm really excited about that and have been baking again.
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I love baking, and I think I made brownies like three times in one week, and it just filled my soul.
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So I just feel a shift happening and just coming out of that winter quiet.
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Also, this will be, you know, maybe I'll talk about this a little bit with this.
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The actually, I'll save this story for when we get into the signs because it was kind of a win, but I think it's related to the manifestation in signs.
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But I have been allowing a new offer to be birthed when it's ready.
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And by the time that this episode is released, your intuitive bio will be live.
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And that's me combining tarot and copywriting, and so that's really, really exciting.
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Very cool.
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I'm glad you got to get away.
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It sounds so nice.
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Hawaii's gorgeous.
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I mean, not to bring it, I always feel really mixed visiting there because of the colonization and the same.
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It is such a magical place, and it's always this really bittersweet feeling going there of like, oh, this is so beautiful, and the only reason I actually have access to this is because of colonization.
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And I got to learn a lot about the more about the history there, and that felt really significant to visit the land and not just be like a mindless tourist, but actually understand more about the land and the history and the indigenous people there.
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So that felt important.
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Yeah, I totally agree.
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I've been a couple times, and it's like this should not be part of the United States, it just shouldn't.
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Um, it makes no sense.
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And it's really amazing that we can go.
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It's such a privilege and pleasure to be there, but I can't not think about the way that that privilege was created.
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So yes, I'm glad you did your education too.
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Yeah, I found it really, really interesting to learn about.
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Um, I went to the Volcano National Park.
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Have you ever been there up in near Hilo?
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I don't know, I haven't.
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I'm obsessed with volcanoes now, and got to learn more about the spiritual beliefs behind it.
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So it was really interesting to learn about.
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And I guess this connects to our topic a little bit around signs and the way that we have been making signs and symbolism for as long as we've been at a people, you know, and so it was really fascinating to learn about how that was part of Hawaiian history and the spiritual beliefs behind volcanoes and all of that.
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Yes, very cool.
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I would like to get closer.
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I see I've been close to some volcanoes in Costa Rica and maybe volcanic activity, I guess, in Iceland.
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Iceland's like all volcanic.
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They're very, they're left underbelly of the earth and so generative and dangerous and explosive, and yeah.
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Just to be nerdy, what astrology sign and tarot card would you associate with volcanoes?
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Volcano.
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Probably the tower, which is Mars astrology, and yeah, all that fire, all that Mars will be a swift action taker.
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Most volcanoes are not like subtle and gentle and slow moving.
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I mean, sometimes you know, in some ways they're dormant sometimes for a long time.
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This video is going around on Instagram of this giant like lava tower, you know, like being spewed way up into the sky, and this white bird flying in the foreground.
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So, like the background is all locked in the air, spewing and falling, and this white bird soaring in front of this red magma.
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I think it was around the time that the US and Israel began this new phase of war on Iran, and it felt like an omen.
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Speaking of a sign, if I was like, oh, this is a sign that yeah, shit's getting crazy.
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Well, as if we needed one, but as if we didn't feel like it's like the the universe is watching, like, here's an omen, y'all, okay.
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We okay, we have to dive into the topic because actually a white bird was a sign that I asked for the universe to show me around something I've been sitting with.
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And so when you said white bird, I was like, okay, I hear you, universe.
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There's your white bird.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Well, let's talk about why we had to choose this because it's everywhere.
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I think it started when you reached out because I had shown up in your dream, right?
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Yes, I had a dream about you, or I had a dream where you appeared, and it was toward the end of the dream, and it was in this dark space, kind of like an eclipse kind of light, you know, like it was either nighttime or it was like eclipsing, and it was I took it as a space uh I know from growing up, like Galveston Beach, which is a yeah, a beach in Texas, and we were walking through the sand or through the dunes and coming up on a wooden ramp, and you spotted something, there was something moving in the dune, and you were like, There's a uh mountain lion, and I was like, Oh my god.
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And we saw this mountain lion, and then I think I woke up.
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So I told you, I texted you, I was like, I think you need to know, I don't know why, but you helped me find a mountain lion in my dream.
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Yeah, and that was interesting because I was also in another friend's dream, I think the night afterwards.
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So my psyche, my unconscious self was traveling and visiting people, but it reminded me of when I lived in Durango years and years, gosh, it was probably like 10 or so years ago.
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And I actually was driving home on a rural road and a mountain lion crossed my path in the night.
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And it like went in front of the headlights, it looked at me, and then it found into the darkness.
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And it was, it was one of I still see it in my mind, and it felt so significant.
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And so I, you and I were talking about like what this sign could mean for each of us, and for me, I took it as a sign to think more about what was happening during that time in my life.
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And then this must have happened in February because then I turned my calendar in March, and there was a mountain line in the corner of that as well.
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I think then we also were seeing signs around birds, around cardinals.
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And yeah, so it just kept coming up.
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We kept kind of ping-ponging.
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And I think also this tied into manifestation.
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And one of the ways that I work with signs is when I say something or I think something and then it comes to fruition or there's something related to it, I see that as a sign of you're on the right path.
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Yes.
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Yeah, this is a beautiful follow-up to our manifestation conversation.
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I love that you're getting powerful mountain lion energy.
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That feels really juicy.
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But I want to kind of like establish signs and symbols.
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You know, I think people know what we're talking about.
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It's kind of self-evident, but I do think, like you're saying, that encountering signs, symbols, things that resonate with itself, like the symbol may repeat and may, you know, create a pattern that we notice, and it may have some kind of thematic echo to what we are trying to manifest, or something that we're seeking or wanting, or the symbol may be functioning like an invitation to sort of step into this desire that we're having that feels kind of scary.
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And I feel like there's an interesting relationship between intuition and moving toward something, and feeling the universe respond in some way and validate the direction that you're trying to take, and then of course, you can fold the manifestation part in there when things are kind of popping off and you're seeing in the material world what you were hoping to bring into being.
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So, yeah, that's what we're getting into today.
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I do feel like this awareness of signs and symbols, this looking out for them, is one kind of magical language that we have with the universe that helps us feel that sense of connection with something greater, like we're not just little egos down here chasing and hustling.
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I mean, we are, but you know, we're not totally alone in that, and that there is some current of energy, some kind of higher consciousness or greater consciousness that is working with us in some way.
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And I think that they give us some hope or some, yeah, some sense that we're not so alone, that, you know, maybe sometimes the universe is random and chaotic and violent and terrible, but that there is also some kind of benevolent cooperative quality to it as well.
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Yeah, it's the word that comes through is interconnectedness.
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It feels like such a low-lift way to start to decondition slowly from this toxic individualism that most of us have been brought up with and see around us and feel a sense of cooperation and collaboration, I guess, with the universe, and feel interconnected.
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Also honoring the sacredness of everyday life.
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Because if you're out on a walk and you said, you know, like in this case, I said, um I was sitting with this question, and I said, Okay, universe, like show me a white bird for yes.
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And so then you're out going and looking, and you might be looking for the sign, but in also looking for the sign, you're just looking and observing and engaging with the world around you more deeply.
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Yeah, that we'll definitely come to that as we talk about ways to embrace this practice further if you want to.
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Yeah, it's got me thinking about just leading up to our conversation.
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I've been thinking about how it's really all about perception.
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I mean, maybe that's obvious or basic in some sense, but you know, our experience of life, our experience of who we are is completely filtered through our perceptive consciousness.
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And um there's no way around that.
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And there's certain limitations, like there's certain like set conditions on some level around our perception.
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Like we've got eyes that work like this that can see this kind of color range.
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Like we can't see ultraviolet light like some animals can, for example.
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And we've got mouths and ears and noses and skins and nervous systems and all these different ways of like sensory perception.
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And then of course there's our cognitive and mental and psychological perception, which part of which is culturally constituted in such a huge way.
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Like if you've never lived in another country or if you haven't traveled extensively, your cultural perception is kind of like baked, and like, you know, there's flexibility in there.
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You can read lots of books, you can whatever.
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The the one time I lived outside the US, I lived in South Korea, and it was only by experiencing it and perceiving it day to day that like, oh, the way that we live is completely arbitrary.
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And there's like all these other ways you can do things.
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There's ways, different ways you can get on a train, there's different ways you can like have a work culture.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.519
You know, oh, maybe grocery stores don't have to be like the size of a football field.
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:31.039
And I think the way that the way that magic functions or like mysticism or witchiness or however you want to think about it, that journey is really about a widening of perception and allowing our perceptive abilities to range a little bit more and open up to other things and also just yeah, just changing the way we see the world as a living, breathing, animistic kind of place where we're not just all separate little bodies running around, it just looks that way.
00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:31.599
Yeah.
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:35.519
It reminds me of the book The Signs by Kevin.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.880
Yes, you've been reading.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.720
Tell us about these books.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:46.160
Well, and the one thing I'll take away from that book is she talks about how we have 34 senses.
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:47.920
Oh, yeah.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.279
I was listening to it on audiobook and I didn't realize that she was like reading a table.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.279
It's just like 34 senses.
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:20.640
So I think I guess to speak to your widening your perception, it's not just widening our perception of the senses we're aware of, it's widening our perception of even the ways that we can sense our perception and sense life and get information from life and the universe.
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:24.000
Can you remember like one of the ones that surprised you?
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:31.920
I think what she was just going towards was there's all these different internal senses that we don't think about.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:43.039
Like the sense of like one of the ways that she did the 34 senses was just the different flavors we can sense on our tongue, you know, because we can sense five different flavors.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:43.519
Okay.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:25:04.559
So she was talking about, I think, gustatory senses, and then she was talking about our ability, she was breaking down introspension into all the different ways of introsion within our body, how we can feel our blood pressure, how we can feel the fullness of our stomach, how we can feel other aspects of our body.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:10.480
And so it felt like we want to put things into buckets.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:19.359
And I think she was alluding to, for example, the different ways that we can see around gradient of light.
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:31.519
So that's what I think was the most like my biggest takeaway around that was just the nuance within every sense that we have and the senses that we don't even think to check in with.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.799
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:33.440
That's interesting.
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:38.319
Yeah, we just kind of lump a lot of these things together, like, oh, I feel my body.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:43.440
Yeah, there's actually like within the nervous system, it gets way more complicated than that.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:45.279
Well, should we talk about tarot?
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:51.599
That seems like the most obvious way that we engage with signs and symbols.
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:57.839
So I think you and I, I mean, I've been reading tarot for a really, really long time, as have you.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:06.880
And for me, there was just something about having something tangible to represent the intangible.
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:11.279
And I think that's part of what symbols hold for me within tarot.
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:29.440
And I also think it's so fascinating when, and this is what I love about signs and symbols for tarot, is the other day, actually, I was pulling cards, and then I put all the cards back into the deck and asked a different question and shuffled really well.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:30.960
And I pulled the same cards.
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:33.440
I pulled the exact same card.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:35.359
That's crazy when that happens.
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:40.640
Yes, welcome tarot, late to the conversation, even though you're the whole reason that we're here.
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:57.119
Yes, one of the huge reasons that we're drawn to it is it is an active practice of soliciting signs and creating the opportunity for patterns to emerge and that symbolic language and translation to take place.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:10.559
And one thing I didn't say a moment ago about signs and synchronicities is that it really feeds our biological need for meaning making, and you know, we don't know why we're here.
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:23.519
Like we don't know what the point is, and we don't get to know, like we have to kind of make it up for ourselves, but we're so limited, you know, we're these these ego bodies.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:52.240
I mean, we have we have many facets, but I think when we feel like the universe is giving us like pointing us in this direction or giving us a thumbs up or saying, like, yeah, I'm I'm trying to like help you do this thing a little bit, like keep going, don't give up, that that sense of meaning and that sense of purpose, the burden to construct it completely on our own isn't so uh heavy.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:28:13.759
And yes, when we're working with tarot, which is like you know, visual, completely visual, which I think is like, yeah, one reason I love it so much because I feel like it just, you know, humans for all of time have been um imbuing meaning into different aspects of the material reality.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:21.759
And tarot is just a way to kind of like ran, yeah, it's like a random generator of signs and symbols to put in front of you.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.039
And yeah.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:47.039
Like, yes, Pamela Coleman Smith gave meaning to what different cards mean, but ultimately anyone can engage in tarot and doesn't have to know the traditional meanings, and it can just be around what those symbols mean to them.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:52.319
Speaking to what you said around we're put on this earth, we don't know why.
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.839
We don't know why we're alive, we don't know why we're here.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:07.759
But if we aren't taking an active and curious role in that meaning making and that purpose, then we will just default to what society tells us.
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:30.240
And that's where I feel almost in a way trying to explore signs and work with them is almost countercultural because it is moving beyond what our little ego-created mind has told us is why we're here, which if you look at the US, we're here for power and control and domination and money, right?
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:35.359
Yeah, and buying stuff, and yeah, and consumerism, like yeah, and capitalism.
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:43.279
And so we can actually use signs and symbols to help decide for ourselves.
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:51.039
And so if you know, if folks are listening to this and feeling lost, it doesn't have to be anything big, you know.
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:55.359
That's what I think is really beautiful about tarot too, is it's so accessible.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.720
You can just pull a card and see what comes up for you.
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:07.920
And if we're going back to how signs, like working with signs, is like countercultural, I feel like collaboration is countercultural to our society.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:16.319
I also think working with signs and symbols is opening to receptivity, which is not a practice.
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:28.720
I mean, that's not an easy practice, but it is for a lot of people because we're told to just go and grab and make things happen as opposed to receiving and observing and being guided.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:36.160
Yeah, I think that's a great point that receptivity, which feels connected to that perceptiveness.
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:45.599
And I think probably a lot of people listening or a lot of people that we work with are on some neurodivergent spectrum.
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:54.000
And I think for folks like us, folks like that, pattern recognition is really like a strength.
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:58.960
Like we're always hyper observant and trying to like connect dots.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:15.440
And so I think signs and symbols, looking for synchronicities, is just like a very fun way to um do pattern recognition, yeah, to apply that skill instead of just like noticing all the horrible patterns that perpetuate in our society.
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:17.519
You kind of touched upon something.
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:37.039
I'm reading Everyday Intuition by Elizabeth Greenwood, and I'm only in the first part in the science section, which I think I have a skeptical part, which I really love and embrace because I think I have some Neptune placements that make me prone to getting culty around things.
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:45.839
So I really embrace my skeptical part, not to like poo-poo on anything, but just to like think critically.
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:53.759
And so I'm really loving this book, Everyday Intuition, because she's talking about connecting intuition to pattern recognition.
00:31:53.920 --> 00:32:09.839
And she's kind of making this argument around how intuition is just another word for expertise, and like what we're intuitive about is basically the expertise that we have around pattern recognition.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:18.720
And that's been something really that's a whole other thing, but that's something I've been really thinking about recently because yeah, I see your wheels turning around this.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:35.759
Because I okay, I'll I'll share a story around this because I was talking to my friend about this, and we both have partners that work in tech, and we are both work in mental health, and we are talking about our different skills around pattern recognition.
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:44.079
And our partners have really, really good pattern recognition skills around technical things, around problem solving, around systems.
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:51.519
And so those are more clear-cut, they're more connected to capitalism and money, so they're rewarded, right?
00:32:51.759 --> 00:33:11.359
But my pattern recognition, and same with my friend, we were talking about our pattern recognition is around emotional patterns and internal systems and connecting things that aren't obvious, but because of the way our society is structured, that is not something that is, you know, makes a lot of money in our society.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:21.200
And so we were just reflecting around that instinct that we have, that like clinical instinct, that feeling of like something else is here.
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:35.359
And I wonder if there can be a validation around that, that the way people are recognizing synchronicities, signs, pattern recognition, to just be curious around how that's connected to their expertise or not.
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:43.440
So in this book, Everyday Intuition, she gives an example of someone in the story that felt like she could just really easily read the room.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:51.359
She could walk in and read the room, and as she got further in her training, she realized, oh, I'm just really good at picking up on micro expressions.
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:57.920
And so, not to minimize that, but also there's pattern recognitions.
00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.759
You're a writer, I'm a writer.
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.720
Like there's pattern recognitions in that.
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:08.480
There's pattern recognition in tarot, obviously.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:18.559
And so when we're engaging with signs, we are in a way inviting in a new pattern to observe and to connect with.
00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:31.119
The way I've been playing with signs, and I think this connects to this, it can be both passive and active of hey, show me this, or it can be I'm just gonna observe what's around me, you know?
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:36.239
And I think they use different muscles, but I think they're both they're both important.
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:59.280
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00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:11.920
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00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:21.760
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00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:24.800
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00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:33.599
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00:36:34.400 --> 00:37:15.440
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00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:33.840
So much of what we're doing is often when we're struggling on our own, a kind of individualistic model where we have to carry everything when actually creativity is here with us and wants to help us and wants to support us in this endeavor.
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:49.840
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00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:55.920
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00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:56.960
I hope you'll join us.
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:34.960
And maybe I should say about the book, it's investigating what is mysticism, who are some of the famous mystics in history, what does mysticism involve?
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:41.920
And Simon Critchley writes, we can draw closer to mysticism if we think obliquely.
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:48.639
So, you know, having sideways associations, not the most straightforward linear logical thinking, right?
00:38:48.800 --> 00:39:00.480
So if we think obliquely, if we think autobiographically, so you know, the sign is meaningful to you because of what's happened in your life and the associations that you have through other things.
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:15.199
Like when you see a cardinal after your grandpa dies, and your grandpa used to feed the cardinals every day, and that cardinal is like sitting at your window, like tapping at it, which cardinals never on any other day seem to do, you're like, Oh, there's grandpa.
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:15.920
That's a sign.
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.480
Grandpa's giving me a sign that like he's okay.
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:28.400
So autobiographically, vernacularly, which has to do with language and also the vernacular that we tend to use.
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:38.960
So fitting the signs into our own existing language and understanding performatively, so that's like more of the active mysticism can be performed.
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:44.320
Like we do a ritual, we intentionally raise energy practically.
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:46.239
You know, what's it for?
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:47.360
Like, how does it help us?
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:52.960
Like, what does it help us do erotically, enjoy and pleasure, and then aesthetically?
00:39:53.119 --> 00:40:01.360
So, like through beauty and through like the arrangement of you know objects and colors and textures or whatever for aesthetic effect.
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:11.039
And then um, mysticism is a singular form of floating attention, what I call passive activity or active passivity.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:16.320
It is necessary to mobilize simultaneously all seven adverbs.
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:24.800
I don't know if that's true, if we are to glean mysticism's meaning, its core, its magma, colon, love.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:26.960
Maybe you do need all of them to get love.
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:34.639
I love a good anchor and to putting a name to the experience, like being able to name what's happening.
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:36.239
Well, let's talk about.
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:38.320
We've kind of been alluding to this.
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:45.280
Is there more you want to say around how you use signs in your life or any stories that you want to share?
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:54.239
Yeah, I remember one day walking the dogs, and maybe I'd just come out of tarot class with Christopher Marmolejo, or maybe I just had a reading.
00:40:54.320 --> 00:41:04.639
I can't remember the preceding autobiographical context, but I was walking the dogs, and then I found an owl or a hawk feather on the ground by a tree.
00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:12.800
So lighter feather with these stripes on it, and then within like several feet, I found a black vulture feather.
00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:15.519
They were just very close together and they were very different.
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:16.719
They were very contrasted.
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:39.679
And I also think there was something like two of swords kind of happening, or there have been conversation around the two of swords, and then finding these two feathers that were so contrasted but so close together just felt like some kind of gift or affirmation, like this is an important line of inquiry, this is truly the moment that you're in, and just be with that.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:54.400
It just feels like the longer I'm doing this and trying to maintain that perceptive openness, that it becomes even more subtle and just sort of like the current and the process of living.
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:59.039
You know, sometimes they're like, Holy shit, that was amazing! Like, that's so huge.
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.960
And especially like, oh, you you know, I had a dream with you in it, and we saw a mountain lion.
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:04.480
I was like, Well, that's something.
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:07.199
But the other thing too is like you don't always know what it means.
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.840
Like, okay, what's what's the mountain lion about?
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:16.880
And you know, you had to choose this is what I think it means for me, or this is what is the most helpful thing for it to mean.
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:27.039
We have to bridge that gap and creatively construct a meaning based on like some of those things that Simon Critchley was listing.
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:29.039
What is it like for you?
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:29.599
Yeah.
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:39.599
Well, I think there's a choice even before that, which is just choosing to experiment or not.
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:52.159
And I think that's something that I've been sitting with because I was reading the signs book, and I've never really intentionally engaged in sign or sign work, if you will.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:57.760
And one of the things that she speaks about in her book is like, who is it hurting?
00:42:57.920 --> 00:42:59.360
What's the harm?
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:05.280
And so I think there's something to be said around just seeing what happens.
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:21.760
And so I had this experience of was sitting with this really, really big question, and I just finished the science book, and I was like, okay, let's see if this science works, what it's all about, you know.
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:36.480
And so I said, Okay, universe, like if the answer to this is yes, show me blue, show me a dark blue, and if it's a no, show me an orange and a green, and make it very obvious for me to know that it's the sign.
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:39.760
And I was like, okay, whatever, universe, do your best.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:46.880
And so I went to take Hazel out, my dog, to go for a late night potty.
00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:53.360
And as I was going out there, there was someone, there's like a pool right by my building.
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:59.119
Someone was getting out of the hot tub and they were wrapping a blue towel around them.
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:01.519
Not just A blue towel.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:06.960
It was a towel that was zigzagged with dark blue and light blue.
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:19.920
And so, like, if I had taken Hazel out two minutes before or two minutes after, I would have missed him because he was actively getting out of the hot tub and leaving, right?
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:33.920
And the way I interpreted that was almost like I don't know, just like almost like the universe being like, you asked, like, here's a sign.
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:51.519
And that actually has been providing me a lot of comfort to just, and I think that's maybe the bigger thing around sign work is it is a lot of pressure to feel responsible for every single decision and outcome in your life.
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:56.880
You know, like all humans, all we want is certainty.
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:59.519
And that is just not what's possible.
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:06.559
And so, in a way, whether or not I believe it was a sign from the universe, it felt very poignant.
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:14.960
But also, my skeptical part is sitting with like whether or not it was, it's actually been really comforting to rest in that decision.
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:22.960
And when I start to ruminate about that decision, just being like, this was your choice, you know?
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:38.320
And so I think sign work you can lean into it in a mystical way, but you can also lean into it in just a way of surrendering and not having to be in control of everything, not having to figure everything out.
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:45.440
And that has been the unexpected benefit for me because you know, I love to because I love to control things.
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:46.719
I'm a human.
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:49.840
I love to think I can control things.
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.039
I love, and we can't, we really can't.
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:54.079
Yes.
00:45:54.320 --> 00:46:00.559
Yeah, there's a lot about surrender and detachment in this mysticism book.
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:05.599
Yeah, I think there's just like a peace of mind we can take from it.
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:11.280
And like you said, there's no like what do you lose in the process?
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:14.320
And I love there's a paranormal podcast.
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:16.239
I live I've listened to it for a long time.
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:19.840
But his mantra is it's more fun to believe.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:28.159
And I totally agree, just like the world becomes more interesting, life becomes more interesting when I choose to believe that magic is real.
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:45.920
I'm also curious, I don't know if you have an answer for this, but do you notice in work with therapy clients that they bring up signs and synchronicities, like as you know, in part of a healing process or as a source of comfort?
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:52.159
Or do you, you know, do you notice that people who like don't pay attention to that stuff have a different kind of lived experience?
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:57.039
I know that's like a huge question, and we're gonna try to be on time today.
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.280
So, any thoughts really quick?
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:24.320
You actually read my mind because I was just thinking of this also from just a trauma-informed lens of there can be an a misuse of this approach and be like, oh, well, because this bad thing happened to me, like there is a sign that I didn't this, this, or whatever.
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:24.880
Yeah.
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:32.960
So I guess there's like if you have a trauma background, use with your own discretion and your own caution.
00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:41.199
And also if you have religious trauma, like that's where like signs and symbols very much have been used in an abusive and a coercive way.
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:46.880
So you were picking up on something, Cecily, because I was like saying, Here we are, we're like, what does it hurt?
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:48.239
It like makes it more fun.
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.480
And then I'm like, yeah.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:56.960
And there can be aspects where that doesn't actually feel empowering to folks.
00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:15.440
I think also, you know, folks are struggling with OCD, like that's where your brain, depending on the presentation and what the your OCD themes are, it cannot be good for you to get engaged in signs and synchronicities.
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:25.280
And so I think anyone, you know, if we're gonna do our disclaimer, it's like use your own discretion, like know what works for you.
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:42.239
I will share a really beautiful story though, where it did show up in session, and I'll I wanna, you know, obviously be mindful about privacy and confidentiality, but there was I do see it when I'm processing loss and grief with my clients.
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:46.880
That's a really, really big one of how do you know they're there?
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:48.320
How do you feel them there?
00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:50.559
How do they communicate with you?
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.920
And it's interesting because they with my clients, they don't even have to identify.
00:48:56.159 --> 00:49:08.159
It's it's interesting how loss makes people, even the most like rational mind analytical-minded people, start to think more expansively around that.
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:55.599
And so we had this, I was in a session with a client, and we were talking about the deceased individual, and and like a very clear sign showed up in the room that individual was there, and it was I can still picture it in my mind, and I'm I'm not gonna say what the sign was just to be respectful, but it was I still remember that so vividly of them saying, like, we're in the room right now, and it was so obvious, and it wasn't scary, and it brought tears to both of our eyes, and so it created this really beautiful experience for both me and the client, but also for me as a clinician too.
00:49:56.079 --> 00:50:06.400
Yeah, have you ever had experiences like that where you're thinking about someone and it happens, or do you have any similar experiences?
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:11.039
I've felt my grandmother's as a butterfly.
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:14.639
Did I talk about burying her ashes and the butterfly?
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:36.880
Yeah, like right after burying my grandmother's ashes in this family plot in East Texas, where like my dad came out with I drove my me and my dad out, and my aunt came and my cousins and my uncle, and I had had the ashes with me and brought them, and we were just gonna like dig a hole in the plot and put them in the ground.
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:53.039
And so we did that, and then I had brought flowers from my garden, you know, some things to offer and put around the little site, so it wasn't just this perfunctor, like, because there wasn't an official service, there was no one officiating, and I was like, Well, why don't we gather around and say a few words?
00:50:53.199 --> 00:51:02.480
And so I'd put the flowers there, and we talked for a second, and then this butterfly came and landed on my shoe, and it only landed on me.
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:03.360
I felt very special.
00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:20.719
Grandma was like, You did good, little granddaughter, and yeah, it was like right at that moment, and it sat there for a second and then flew away, and it was a butterfly that kind of had more of like 70s polyester coloring, like browns and oranges, and like a little bit of blue.
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:28.559
And I often see, or sometimes I'll see, butterflies like that, they look a little more moth-like that I associate with her.
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:34.000
Yeah, and it was, you know, like the only time butterfly landed on me that day, and it happened like right then.
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:47.760
And butterflies don't land on me every day, they they don't, you know, so yeah, it's things like that where and I like that you bring up how death and loss I think is a very huge perceptive widening portal.
00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:50.960
So yeah, I do think it creates more opportunity for that.
00:51:51.039 --> 00:52:10.239
And I appreciate too what you said that you know it's not for everyone at every time in their lives, and there are other considerations in terms of like if you have too active pattern recognition or if people have manipulated signs and symbols to coerce or compel you, that's certainly very important.
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:13.920
Do you summarize how folks can use lines?
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:15.360
Yes.
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:23.840
So if this is a practice you are interested in experimenting with, I think one of the key things is to pay attention.
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:33.039
We live in a very phone-obsessed time and culture, and our eyes are always drawn to different kinds of screens.
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:35.760
And you know, what if we're just paying attention?
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:40.079
There could like the guy that's walking down a sidewalk with the blue zigzag towel.
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.280
If you'd been on your phone, you wouldn't have even seen that.
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:53.679
So, like, look around you, look in your environment, notice what's going on, and be curious about it and put those pattern recognition skills to use in the world.
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:56.800
It's not like they can't occur digitally as well.
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:01.360
And then, you know, I think signs and synchronicities can take all kinds of forms.
00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:06.800
They can be those animal encounters, the the things that show up in your dreams.
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:13.760
Often I don't remember full narratives in my dreams, but I will remember one image that I wake up with.
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:20.960
Of course, there's numbers, there's divination, bibliomancy, the colors.
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:24.000
I love how you were asking for colors in yours.
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:26.800
What other tips would you?
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:32.320
I want to name that we I guess I want to invite in experimentation.
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:33.360
Yes.
00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:41.760
And also you and I clearly our relationships to signs is very visual because we have access to that sense.
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:55.199
And so I just want to acknowledge if people don't have access to sight or that isn't as you know profound of a connection, there is many other ways to encounter signs.
00:53:55.440 --> 00:54:08.159
You know, give me a feeling in my body, let me hear this tune or this song, let me taste this, let me receive a message, like a word from this.
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:13.199
You and I obviously were tarot readers, we're writers, we are very, very visual and verbal.
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:22.320
So and emotional, but in inviting in that experimentation, and I think you wrote down here, play with it, and conduct an experiment.
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:24.880
I'm in experimentation mode with my sign work.
00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:33.280
I'm like, okay, you I asked this, you saw me this, I asked this, I asked for a white bird, and now second one showed up just now.
00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:39.280
And I think in a month from now, and I'm kind of recording them in a month from now, I'm gonna look back and see what happens.
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:44.400
So almost embrace that pattern recognition around your experimentation with signs.
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:47.199
We have to kind of be open to the form that it can take.
00:54:47.360 --> 00:55:04.000
And then I'll just say with synchronicities, we didn't really get into this, but the timing is important that you see the sign at a certain time when you're also thinking about a certain thing, or you just came from this other place, or the way that I ran into this person, all of that goes together.
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:04.480
Yes.
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:06.480
So play with it, go with it, you know.
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:11.039
Yeah believe it if it helps you and create your own meaning for it.
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:16.079
And if you want to tell us about your stories, send me an email.
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:18.639
Hello at typewriter tarot.com.
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:19.599
Tell us about your signs.
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:20.800
We'll share them on the show.
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:23.360
Well, this was such a lovely topic.
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:27.199
I'm feeling really nourished and curious as we wrap.
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:29.119
Yes, and thank you.
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:32.960
You brought this topic, wonderful Gemini co-host.
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:35.519
Thank you for another great one.
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.760
And we'll talk again soon.
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:38.719
Thank you so much.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.000
Have a good one.
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:11.440
I hope this conversation serves your own interactive, magical, and mysterious experience with signs and synchronicities.
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:25.760
I always love to hear about these things, so you can send me a message through the show notes if you want to let me know what you think, what we left out, a sign that you experienced immediately after listening to this episode, perhaps.
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:27.599
Whatever, love to hear from you.
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:36.320
And just a reminder: Creative Channel is open where you can get a year of support for your creative journey.
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:38.880
Of course, there is magic folded in.
00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:53.280
I've got that six-step process to help you ground your experience and your relationship with creativity in the place it was always rooted in sacred energy, in playfulness, in curiosity.
00:56:53.519 --> 00:57:18.880
We still get to use creativity like grown-ups and channel it to make the things that we want to make, but creative channel will help you remember that there's more to it than just what capitalism has shown us and taught us and brainwashed us into doing automatically all of the perfectionism, the imposter syndrome, the productivity, the profitability.
00:57:19.039 --> 00:57:36.559
We can still think about those things, but if we think about them without questioning them, if we think about them and enact them without doing it intentionally, we're going to end up in a relationship with creativity that feels challenging, icky, not fun.
00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:41.519
And sometimes we even push away from creativity because it doesn't feel that good anymore.
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:45.599
And I don't want that for you or for anyone.
00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:49.599
So that's why I created Creative Channel and I would love to welcome you there.
00:57:50.000 --> 00:58:02.000
If you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoyed the show, I'd love for you to send it to a friend who might also enjoy it, or give us a rating and a review if you haven't yet.
00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:09.840
It helps so much and helps us connect with other creative spirits out there across the universe.
00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:16.239
I'm wishing all of you a beautiful week filled with creativity and magic.
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:18.159
And thanks for listening.
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:19.599
Talk to you later.