WEBVTT
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All right.
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Here we are.
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Episode two.
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How are we feeling?
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I'm excited that Lexi is here.
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I know, right?
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We got a third third uh person here, Lexi Garuji Berry.
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Sitting right next to me for you though for those of you watching.
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So Yeah, we'll see what she has to the conversation.
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I'm sure it's gonna be quite a bit.
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And for those of you not watching, she is our cat.
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Yes.
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Lexi is a cat, sorry.
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Alright, what's today's episode about?
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Today's episode is about flow.
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We'll also talk about set sequencing and how that relates to finding flow states.
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And also talking about enjoyment and entertainment uh in a yoga practice.
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Awesome.
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Let's roll right in.
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We got our set questions as we always do, get you the most value from these episodes.
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So we have some structure and like assembly.
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Yeah, let's get let's kick it off here with the questions.
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All right.
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So yoga classes today always say find your flow.
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What exactly is flow?
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So Tony here is our flow expert.
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I have learned a lot from him.
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I've we together have this flow workshop.
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So I'm gonna first start by giving just kind of a basic what's the big takeaway that I've taken from him, and then he'll go into more detail.
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So a flow state is where if you've ever been driving and all of a sudden you lose track of time and you're like, wow, I don't even remember how I got here.
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That's a flow state.
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So time can speed up, it can slow down, it's when you're in the zone.
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It has to do with challenge and skills and balancing those.
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And when uh the challenge and skill ratio is balanced, you're in the flow channel.
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When you have too much challenge, that can lead to anxiety.
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So for me as a high school teacher, there was a lot of challenge there, and lots of anxiety.
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If there is too little challenge, then that can lead to boredom.
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All right, you want to explain?
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Yeah, that's awesome.
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So as Emily kind of indicated, we got all the props today.
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We drew this out for those that you can hopefully see on the video here.
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But yeah, if you were to plot on a XY Cartesian, you know, system here, we'd have challenge versus skills, right?
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And as Emily said, you know, when you balance these challenge and skills, you find what's called a flow channel.
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And what's cool about, you know, flow states is that when you say find your flow, yoga's got it built in to where we meet what's called the antecedents of flow.
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So there's three things to get you in a flow state.
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You need to have these challenge to skill, and we're gonna go over that in a in a moment here, uh, balanced here, that ratio relative to you, the clear goals, and then immediate feedback.
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And one thing that I want to say before we dive into the nitty-gritty of this awesome plot here from the psychologist Mihai Chicks at Mihai, who did all this fantastic work.
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He's got a book called Flow, which I recommend you all read for those wanting to learn more about it from the psychology standpoint, is that modern-day neuroscience has actually found that when you're in flow states, there's a couple theories.
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The one I resonate with is where the if you touch your forehead right now, if you're driving, obviously keep one hand on the wheel, but if you touch your hand to your forehead, when you're in a flow state, the relative activity in your brain will sort of it diminishes.
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And what you start to see is alpha theta brain waves, and we're going to go over that in a little bit.
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But what's cool is that you're in that zone, like Emily talked about, when you're driving, right?
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And when you get out of a class sometimes and it was 60 minutes and it felt like five minutes went by, you've experienced flow yourself.
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How can you elaborate on goals, feedback, and how that relates to a yoga practice?
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So the one example we love to talk about, right, is the Warrior 3, right?
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And you know, if we indicate in the class that, you know, students are to do Vera Bhadrasna three, hopefully you've led up to the warmups, the component parts to get students ready for that, right?
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And you know, that's a clear goal, right?
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So when students have this idea of the clear goal, that's one antecedent to flow.
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So the feedback right away when you're lifting.
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So picture if you don't know what Warrior Three is, imagine you've got one leg standing on the ground, you're lifting the other leg behind you, and you're sending the torso forward.
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So you look like a T, if you will, on the on the yoga mat.
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Sometimes known as like airplane.
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Airplane, right?
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Exactly.
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Other variations, absolutely, where the arms are.
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No, thank you.
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And right away, if you could imagine, because we're all fighting gravity, all of us every day, when you lift that back leg, you feel gravity, right?
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Even though the leg anatomically is in neutral, it's the standing leg that's doing sort of the action, if you will, from you know the hip flexion standpoint.
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But with the back leg, you feel the weight of gravity.
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So that's immediate feedback.
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So the challenge, of course, is okay, you have in your mind this T sort of posture in your lower body, upper body.
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And now it's the application of the skill where you're showing up on your practice, you've practiced hip flexion, you've practiced shoulder flexion to get the arms out in front.
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So when you can balance the challenge and skill there with the feedback of gravity to hit that warrior three, all those perfect things align, you're in a flow state.
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So for me, I feel like flow is important in a yoga practice because it helps me be present and really kind of go inward.
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Now, you know a lot about flow.
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If I were to get into a flow state in my morning yoga practice, would that make me more likely to have flow states later on in my day?
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Also, I'm just curious like how many flow states a day can you have?
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And if you had one in the morning, does that kind of set you up for getting into them easier?
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Like, so good questions there, right?
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So flow is very taxing on the brain.
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So, first of all, I guess I'm doing my PhD in psychology looking at flow in the workplace, which you can readily apply that sort of black and white graph that we showed to anything that we do.
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And when we talk about finding flow, especially from the neuroscience standpoint, you mentioned something great in the morning.
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So when you're sleeping, you're hopefully in delta brain waves, the lowest frequency of brain waves that you have.
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Then there's theta, alpha, beta, and gamma.
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And you know, when you're in a flow state again, you're in that alpha theta brain state.
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So the best time to do any sort of meditation, moving meditation of yoga is actually in the morning, because you're coming out of delta brain waves from asleep, from sleeping.
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And now you're bringing in just enough stimuli, right, to get the clear goals, that feedback.
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The brain's kind of working a little bit, right, to get into that warrior three.
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Maybe first thing in the morning might be brutal.
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Um, but so in the morning is a good time to find flow.
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Now, to kind of answer the question, how many times can you find flow?
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I have designed my day to be in a flow state.
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So we talked about on the previous episode that Stephen Cotler mentioned that flow is this optimal state of consciousness, right?
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And we said that the yogis had it right where they were in these flow states, right?
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They didn't have that language at the time, but they were doing it right.
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And so the thing about flow, though, is that you're not going to be, it's not like cloud nine, you're not high all the time, right?
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It's not like a it's it is a drug.
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There's quite the concoction of things going on in your brain that are related to drugs, if you will, in a safe sense.
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Um, of course, there's a dark side to anything.
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But Stephen Cotler further goes on in his book, The Rise of Superman, he talks about four stages.
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So you have the struggle, the release, the flow, and the recovery, right?
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So if you think about it, if you can take those four stages, regardless of the time interval, and apply them in your life, in your yoga practice, they call it sort of like a flywheel.
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You get the momentum going on this thing and you can keep it going.
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So, what's an example, right?
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So say I go, so most of us work nine to fives.
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I start my day off at 7 a.m.
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And, you know, I do all these little things to balance my challenge and skills, you know, with the have clear goals from a manufacturing standpoint.
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I work in the aerospace manufacturing industry as a quality manager and a lot of feedback, right, from customers complaining about their parts, having defects, whatever.
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So, anyways, you find these flow states like you might do at work that you have done at work, you know, where time sort of passes you by, you become very engrossed in a project.
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But what I want to get at here is that to keep flow going, you have to remember two things.
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And I think this culture needs to really embrace this idea to keep this optimal state of consciousness going.
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It's the release and the recovery.
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Why?
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Because we're in a hustle culture.
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We want to go, go, go, right.
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So when you're struggling with something, right?
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Say that Warrior Three, let's go back to that, you know, posture in yoga.
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And it's like, oh, this pose really sucks, you know, I'm really tight or whatever, and it's hard to hold.
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When's the heck is the teacher going to say the next pose?
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Why are you in it for so long?
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Um, you're working again the that's the struggle, right?
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So what you do next, hopefully you come out of it, right?
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And you go back into it, right?
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So flow isn't saying that you're just gonna sign up and be good at it and you were born with it, right?
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You have to practice these things.
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You can't, you're not born into anything.
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So the struggle phase reminds us of the practice.
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The release phase allows, you know, whatever, I don't know what consciousness means yet, studying that on the side, but whatever you've done to the, you know, to your body and your mind, your body's kind of digesting it.
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Your mind's digesting it, right?
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When you come back into that activity, that warrior three, hopefully when you practice enough, you can find a flow state.
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But because of what's going on from the neuroscience uh perspective in the brain, you have to recover, as Stephen Collar reminds us.
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And there's different ways to recover.
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And what I love about yoga is yoga could be an act of recovery.
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So recovery doesn't mean just sleeping, you know, things like that.
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But going back to, sorry, I'm kind of dancing around here because you can see I love applying flow in yoga and the work.
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So back to the workplace, right?
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So I went through flow.
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I've released, you know, different activities, you know, I went back to them.
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I struggled with an email, blah, blah, blah, found a flow state.
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At lunchtime, I take a quick recovery of a nap, right?
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So you talked about how do you find, or you asked the question, how do you find flow or how many times can you find flow in the day?
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To me, it's almost, again, there's four stages.
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So you can only find it, relatively speaking, a quarter of that relative time.
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So it's not the whole day, you know, and plus you get you're sleeping at night because your brain and you know, mind and body have to all uh rest as well.
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But think about just to summarize all that, if you want to implement flow more, struggle, release, flow, and recovery.
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You need all four.
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You can't just go into a yoga class blasting music from the gate and expecting to find a flow state the entire time.
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Even in the yoga class, you need moments to transition, right?
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To go from to reduce the stimuli to get them back down, to get them back into the flow channel, and then even moments of rest, right?
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Quick times in child's pose or in a standing pose.
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So you can design a yoga class, you can design your day, any work that you do with those four uh stages to flow.
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Super interesting.
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I learned new things, though.
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And I've been listening to you talk about flow for a long time now.
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So one of the things that we've talked about is, and actually in our flow workshop that we taught, I did a you talked for, I think we did 30 minutes discussion, and then I taught a abbreviated one hour ashtanga primary series.
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So Ashtanga we talked about uh the previous episode follows a set sequence.
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And so what is the purpose of a yoga sequence comparing that to creative sequencing and also with flow states?
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I know you and I have talked a lot about for me, I guess I really like that set sequence, and I feel like it when I learned about flow from you, I was like, oh, Ashtanga like really sets you up for flow because there's clear goals, you know exactly what the sequence is, you have challenging poses, like we don't skip poses in Ashtanga, so you have to at least try the pose, do some sort of variation of it.
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But you gotta go through that struggle, you gotta go through that challenge.
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And so I guess can we just yeah, elaborate on what do you what are your thoughts on set sequencing versus creative sequencing and how that relates to flow?
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I mean, I guess like, you know, it goes back to we're talking about again in the in the first episode, so definitely go back and listen to that.
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But, you know, yoga as once defined in the ancient texts, it was really 84 million postures, so meaning just to live life.
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So, regardless of what you're doing, you know, it's whether it's a set sequence, whether it's, you know, spontaneity, I think it's really like dependent on how you break down, you know, the antecedents of flow, right?
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The clear goals, the immediate feedback, the challenge skill ratio, like you just did with Ashtanga.
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But we can apply that to a hot vinyasa class blasting music and it's 100 degrees, right?
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Because think of it from this perspective, right?
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The challenge, you might think right away, oh, it's the heat and whatever else.
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I actually think it's what I'm gonna call active listening, right?
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Because you don't know what the sequence is, you don't know what's coming.
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You have to be so present and so mindful to listen to the teacher, to listen to what's going on in the room.
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And that's a different challenge.
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That's a different skill, right?
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Now, obviously, there's downsides to that because when you look at the goal of yoga, right, you're trying to calm the mind.
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And one thing I just want to say, I guess, with in terms of well, I'm gonna wait because that's the frequencies we'll talk about that with music.
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But yeah, back to just the the set sequence idea, I think it really just sort of depends, you know.
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I think it, you know, I have, you know, I've rock climbs, you know, a good portion of my life.
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I've run 12 marathons, I've played drums, you know, and I just like when I say all these things, I just think back to when I was running, I had sort of set distances that I wanted, right?
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Sort of a set sequence, if you will, throughout the week.
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But it would change sometimes, right?
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And I could could move with that.
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And sometimes to get faster at running, I'd have to shake up the sequence, right?
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And I understand with Ashtanga, there's that set sequence, but nobody can go into the pose, right?
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We have to still work the component parts.
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Now I understand, like, well, correct me if I'm wrong, right?
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You get to a certain posture, you kind of work it and then you work to the next one.
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Or was that sort of the older school of thought?
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The old school was you were you'd be stopped.
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Like if you couldn't do if you couldn't bind Marichiasin I D, you would be stopped there.
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And that's kind of I'd be stopped before that.
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Hopefully uh kind of more on its way out now.
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Like I teach uh Marichiasana D just like a figure four stretch with a twist.
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I like that.
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And then yeah, and you know, maybe you do it a couple ways.
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So maybe you would do it like that, and then maybe you would work a bind um without being in in the lotus position, and then move on.
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So there's definitely ways, I feel, to work with the sequence where you can produce you can come up with if you're working with a teacher, they should be able to come up with another variation for you so that you can go through the sequence and you don't have to just be stopped.
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I think again, I it's like we're not trying to say there's one right way or wrong, right?
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We're just I guess the the boundaries of which this podcast is kind of was built from is if we're treating the sutras of Patanjali, these texts, you know, even the Bhagavad Gita, we can throw that in there, on what yoga is.
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And if we're trying to calm the mind, to me, whether you have a set sequence or you don't, or you call it hot power or it's goat yoga or whatever the heck yoga it is, right?
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If you're trying to calm the mind, you're doing yoga, right?
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So I mean, look, regardless of these words, I think it comes back to the intentions of the teacher when they step into the classroom.
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What is it they're trying to do, right?
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Obviously, most teachers are trying to create an experience, right?
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You know, they want students to learn.
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And we're going to get to the enjoyment piece, the entertainment piece, because that's a very interesting one too, right?
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The whole yoga's of practice versus performance.
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And there is an element, right, of a teacher being in front of everyone.
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Again, public speaking, right?
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Very scary thing.
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Where there is sort of a performance aspect to that.
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So I brought some notes here.
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Can't read them from there, but I'm going to read them to you because I just wanted to make sure I got these kind of facts straight.
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So we talked about, you know, the different brain uh states, right?
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.319
So you have the gamma, beta, alpha theta, and delta.
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.160
And basically, you know, gamma is, you know, problem solving.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.119
You got a lot of chatter, right, to do that, right?
00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:25.599
As you can imagine, as you're trying to problem solve, the mind is thinking it's going to see a lot of high frequency.
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.200
And then you move into alpha theta, which is a flow state, right?
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.400
So you're in that zone.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:40.480
Like Emily said, you know, when you're driving, it feels like you know, minutes have gone by on a three-hour trip up north or wherever you are in the uh in the world, south or whatever, whichever direction.
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.720
And then when you get to delta, right, it's the lowest.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:44.000
And that makes sort of sense, right?
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:53.440
Because when you're sleeping, the brain's not doing much other than obviously keeping the rest of you alive while while you, you know, um not unconscious.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:54.799
I guess I don't even know what sleep is yet.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.680
But anyways, when you're sleeping, lower frequencies.
00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:59.440
But here's an interesting chart, right?
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.279
So, and I'm gonna kind of just highlight.
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:06.640
So a lot of music is played, or a lot of, excuse me, classes play music today.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:12.000
And what's interesting is, you know, this particular group here, of course, the reference chopped off.
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:13.519
We'll put it in the show notes.
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:22.240
Um, but they have a table here, and I find it very interesting where, you know, the genre of pop has a high frequency of 342 hertz.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:27.599
So that's how many times the sound waves are like coming at you, if you will.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:36.319
And so to put that kind of into perspective, alpha theta brain waves, okay, are anywhere from 4 hertz to 12 hertz, right?
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:39.359
So remember, the goal is to calm the fluctuations of the mind.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:45.839
If you're playing, you know, Taylor Swift and, you know, whatever other pop songs, believe me, I like Taylor Swift too.
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.200
I'm gonna admit, I'm not gonna lie.
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.680
Some songs I don't mind, you know.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.839
Um, but it's 342 hertz.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.160
That's a high frequency, right?
00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:02.400
And then when you talk about calming the mind, you're down, flow states are supposed to be at four to 12 hertz.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:13.599
So again, the question of set sequence, I think it's all gonna depend on how you know you structure the classroom as a teacher to get the brain waves to calm down, right?
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:18.400
So the goal is shavasana, you know, at the end of class to be able to sit still.
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:20.240
I think that's the ultimate test, right?
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:24.079
You'd probably agree, you know, in terms of like, can you actually calm the mind?
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:35.440
But I think, you know, that whole thing of the moving meditation still holds where, you know, music, even though, yes, the frequency of music you could argue is 342 hertz, the highest for pop.
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.680
African drumming was eight hertz, by the way.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.559
So you could do a whole class on African drumming and you'd be in a flow state, hopefully.
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.400
So there's a phenomenon called entrainment in physics.
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:52.640
And imagine you have the speakers, right, blasting at 342 hertz at you.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:20:02.640
And so there's a phenomenon where, you know, that oscillating at that frequency, that other object, you can actually pick up that vibration, right?
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:04.960
You've probably felt it with other people.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.960
You know, it's like if they're energetic, you become energetic, right?
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:17.920
But remember, in the context of a yoga class, right, in terms of the sutras of Batanjali, we want to calm the mind, right?
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.359
So one argument to music is that, okay, maybe we're like beyond gamma waves right now, right?
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:32.240
We're beyond everybody's thinking, everyone's got squirrel brain, if you will, myself included, sometimes looking at those, you know, Lego, Instagram, Doom Scrolls.
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:35.359
And, you know, so we're way up here in chatter.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.359
So music gets us down to a lower state, right?
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:51.599
And I think if we were to, if I were to sort of like make a hierarchy of yoga classes as they relate to the goal of yoga and how they do that effectively, it would start with like Pilates, right?
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:53.440
Kind of where the higher frequency is.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.599
And again, this isn't an insult to anyone, right?
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.559
This is just stating it from the perspective of frequencies and that phenomenon of entrainment.
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.160
So getting a little technical here.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.559
So we've got Pilates and hot vinyasa classes with loud music, right?
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:12.880
So whatever frequencies your playlists are at, just so if you're wondering, you know, hip hop is 157 hertz.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.079
You've got jazz.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:21.039
I don't know who plays jazz in a yoga class, but 103 blues, I've played that sometimes, is 79 hertz.
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.440
Um, hip-hop, I already said that.
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.160
Country is 122 hertz, right?
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.440
So we're moving down and calming the waves, right?
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.720
So Pilates, Hadvinyasa yoga classes.
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:40.240
Then I would say probably classes without music, and then going to what we call a slow flow, not whatever that means, right?
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.720
We've been to enough classes, slow flow is so relative, and what does that even mean?
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:58.319
And then I think yin would definitely have to place high in terms of reaching that goal of yoga because you're in a posture for three to five minutes, you know, and most people can't even sit still for more than I think it's nine seconds, is our attention.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.039
It's eight seconds.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:21:59.759
I think the goldfish.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.640
Yeah, so we're worse than the goldfish right now in terms of attention span.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:06.720
So yin is getting closer.
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.039
And I think, you know, the and again, this isn't to say that we're just painting a picture here.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:22.960
Most people, when they think like meditate, I gotta go to the, you know, the Himalayas and be with the monks and you know sit in the lotus posture and I do nothing, you know, and that's not really practical for a lot of people.
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:28.559
But working our way towards the goal of yoga, that is kind of the direction, right?
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:43.359
And remember, yoga was founded really from ascetics where they would literally go in the woods and like hang upside down in trees and hold their arm up for like hours, you know, and just basically an aesthetic, they just stood there and like did nothing.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:45.359
That was all that was.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.160
So yoga has roots of that, right?
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.200
So, but they were doing that to calm the mind.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:58.559
Yeah, and I think our like I encourage listeners to just go out and try different styles.
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:08.640
Try a set sequence for a while, whether that it isn't an Ashtanga set sequence, or it could be 26 and 2, or it could be a sequence that you come up with on your own.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:24.480
And then and try maybe a hot vinyasa or just like a vinyasa power yoga flow and see how do you feel with music, without music, with a set sequence, or without a set sequence.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:32.000
For me, I have found over my 10 plus years of practice that I like the set sequence.
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.519
Like I mentioned, knowing the there's a clear goal for me.
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.279
I know what the poses are.
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:45.440
Uh sometimes I'll go into the my practice and say, okay, well, today I'm gonna focus on Pinchamayrasana.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.480
And that is gonna be my focus.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.599
I'm gonna spend a little bit extra time there, and so that's my goal.
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:58.400
Or maybe it's I'm gonna really focus on my breath today, and then that's my goal.
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:11.200
So for me, that set sequence just really helps set up the the goal, and then I'm able to get feedback, that immediate feedback, because I keep doing it over and over again.
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:18.400
So if I've been practicing this sequence for a week or so, I might start to notice some differences.
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.880
And so I'm getting that feedback there.
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:23.680
And then you're building up skills over time.
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:29.279
As you progress through the series, you might get more poses, which then increases your challenge.
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:37.119
And so for me, the Ashtanga method works really well for me to get into that flow state and to get into that flow channel.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.279
But I know that's not for everyone.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.400
So again, just try, try different things.
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:49.200
Maybe give Ashtanga a chance or try a different set sequence, or like I said, you could maybe come up with your own.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:54.799
Yeah, and just I'm curious, Emily, to hear your thoughts because again, a lot of classes play music.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:01.200
I used to play music, you know, of course, drummer and the know where kids, I would play our music, of course, right, trying to promote it.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:06.559
And, you know, there's times where I like music, and there's times where, of course, I don't like music, right?
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:10.640
What happens, Emily, when you hear a song that you like?
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.960
What do you what do you do?
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:14.799
Or a song that you don't like, right?
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.160
Imagine the students coming in and they hear songs that they like or don't like.
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:18.720
Yeah.
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:24.960
So I recently, I guess within the last year, have, because there's a lot of power yoga where we live.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:29.839
So I've started taking some of those uh just kind of on the side.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:38.400
And I so used to not practicing with m with music now, so that has been uh different for me.
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:45.039
So what I've noticed is usually I can kind of tune it out because I don't know a lot of popular music.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.000
So if I don't know the song, I'll just kind of tune it out.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:54.160
If it's something that I really don't like, generally I just don't like rap and country, so I don't really hear.
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:57.519
I mean sh whatever.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.279
I just don't like the fandom around.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:02.319
I don't either.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.680
I just like the music, yeah.
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:14.160
So I will say mostly I I usually don't hear rap or country, and I think people know those are kind of polar polarizing types of music.
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.839
But I probably would definitely get like angry.
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:27.440
I guess there are some like, yeah, pop songs I don't like, and definitely negative feelings would arise when I hear a song I like though.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:28.880
So this happened to me the other day.
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:34.000
I was practicing in a class and a Grace Potter song came on, and I was like, oh my God, I love this song.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:35.200
What song is it?
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:37.599
And my brain is just trying to think, oh, what's the name of the song?
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.400
What is this one?
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.839
And I can't wait to leave class and go listen to Grace Potter.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.599
And she went to my college St.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.400
Lawrence, and I saw her play there, and it was so awesome.
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:48.720
These are all the things that are going through my head.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:51.599
And then I realized, crap, what did the teacher say?
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.319
I have no idea what's being cued.
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:57.119
So it really took me out of the present.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.440
It took me out of the class, and it was a distraction for me.
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:05.359
So I actually do worse with songs that I that I like.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:07.359
So then how do we balance, Emily?
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:12.720
This idea of sort of like enjoyment, excitement, you know, we find our flow, right?
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.640
You can find flow in music, right?
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.799
I can tell you countless times when I'm playing drums, I'm in a flow state, right?
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.680
Trying to there's also a thing called group flow, too.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:28.640
Um, Keith Sawyer was a the you know, student of Mihai, chick sent me high, the the godfather of flow.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.920
And, you know, Keith, you know, researched a lot of group flow.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:35.680
And so I think yoga classes bring elements of that group flow too.
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:43.279
But I guess like walk us through your thoughts on like just what does enjoyment mean today in a yoga class?
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:44.640
Let's just start with that.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:45.680
Yeah.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.480
So for me, you should be, it should be something that you enjoy.
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:55.279
It shouldn't feel like something that you have to check off that like you're dreading to do each day.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:01.440
I think too, going back to flow states, when you find a flow state in yoga, like that's enjoyable.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:08.160
And when you're able to like just really be present and in your body, that is enjoyable.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:13.039
I also think though, it is not just all sunshine and rainbows.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:20.000
It is not going and wanting to be entertained for the whole time and like having a blast and having fun.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:21.279
It should be challenging.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:22.799
That's a music concert.
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:34.319
And actually, I forget whose research it is, but if you increase your challenge by 4%, you're more likely to get into a flow state.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.519
So we should be facing challenge.
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.559
Things also come up on our yoga, Matt, right?
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.519
There might be negative feelings.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:46.400
And like I mentioned in Ashtanga, we don't skip poses.
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:50.480
So you're learning how to breathe through uncomfortable situations.
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:56.000
Doing kapotasa, the super deep backbend, there's a lot of fear that comes up for people.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.000
And it's not, it's not fun for a lot of people.
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:05.920
It's scary, it's uncomfortable, it might not feel great, but we still do it.
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.160
We work on it, we breathe through it.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:22.319
And that teaches us off the mat when we're in these uncomfortable situations, whether that be like a difficult conversation you're having with someone, or I think I mentioned this on the last episode: hitting a tire while you're driving on the highway.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.920
Or the other day, oh my gosh, I hit a pigeon flew into my car while I was on the highway.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.000
It just went right into my windshield.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:40.000
And so our practice on our mat, having facing these difficult things, we're able to then face difficult things when we're not on our mat.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:58.640
So yes, you should be able to find enjoyment in your practice, but it shouldn't 100% be enjoyment feeling like we're, you know, at a, I don't know, a dance party or a concert or whatever some of these classes are.
00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.200
Yeah, right.
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:00.640
Hanging out with goats.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:02.000
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:02.720
Cat yoga.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:20.400
So one thing that's cool about flow here, just to kind of wrap this episode up, is that a characteristic of flow is that it creates what's called an autotelic personality, meaning that Emily kind of was alluding to it, you have your intrinsically, you know, um, there's an intrinsic desire to do the thing that you're doing, right?
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.480
You're doing it for the sake of doing it, right?
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.160
You're not in it for the reward, right?
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.799
So you have the difference between intrinsic desire and extrinsic sort of desires, right?
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:33.680
Extrinsic is when I get that thing done and then I get an award for it, right?
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.359
I get a paycheck, I get a, you know, attaboy or whatever, right?
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.920
The intrinsic is when I just, I'm just so compelled that I want to do it.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.880
And that's just the beauty of flow is it's again, it's built in.
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:46.480
Yoga classes have it.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:48.079
That's why I love yoga so much, right?
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:56.240
That's such a such a crossover with flow in psychology, flow in neuroscience, flow in yoga, because again, the yogis got it right.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.599
They were intrinsically motivated to show up, right?
00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:01.599
So don't feel guilty, right?
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:05.039
If you want to go to classes and listen to music and things like that.
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.599
I don't think that's kind of the, that's not what we're saying.
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:18.559
Again, we're just saying that if you want to follow the sutras of Batanjali to calm the fluctuations of the mind, which is the goal of yoga, just question is music doing it for you?
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.640
Are fast-paced classes doing it for you?
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:22.319
Maybe some weeks it is, right?
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:24.160
Sometimes life really sucks, right?
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.480
You get a pigeon flying in your car, right?
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.319
Maybe you want to hear Grace Potter.
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.759
You know, you can't sit with yourself for that day, and that's fine, right?
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:35.599
We're thinking it in terms of the long term adventure.
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:36.480
All right.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.039
Does that wrap up this episode?
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:40.079
I think so.
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:40.880
All right.
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:41.680
Thanks so much.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:42.799
We'll see everyone next time.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:48.400
And remember, at your yoga practice, what you do on the mat, you do off the mat as well.
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:49.279
Love it.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:00.640
All right.
00:00:00.959 --> 00:00:01.840
Here we are.
00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:03.600
Episode two.
00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:05.679
How are we feeling?
00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:08.080
I'm excited that Lexi is here.
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:08.960
I know, right?
00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:13.359
We got a third third uh person here, Lexi Garuji Berry.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.960
Sitting right next to me for you though for those of you watching.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:19.600
So Yeah, we'll see what she has to the conversation.
00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:21.120
I'm sure it's gonna be quite a bit.
00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:24.160
And for those of you not watching, she is our cat.
00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:24.800
Yes.
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:26.640
Lexi is a cat, sorry.
00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:29.039
Alright, what's today's episode about?
00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:32.560
Today's episode is about flow.
00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:39.280
We'll also talk about set sequencing and how that relates to finding flow states.
00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:47.200
And also talking about enjoyment and entertainment uh in a yoga practice.
00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:48.079
Awesome.
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:48.960
Let's roll right in.
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:54.240
We got our set questions as we always do, get you the most value from these episodes.
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:56.799
So we have some structure and like assembly.
00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:59.039
Yeah, let's get let's kick it off here with the questions.
00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:00.320
All right.
00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:04.959
So yoga classes today always say find your flow.
00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:06.719
What exactly is flow?
00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.359
So Tony here is our flow expert.
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:11.280
I have learned a lot from him.
00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.000
I've we together have this flow workshop.
00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:22.640
So I'm gonna first start by giving just kind of a basic what's the big takeaway that I've taken from him, and then he'll go into more detail.
00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:31.920
So a flow state is where if you've ever been driving and all of a sudden you lose track of time and you're like, wow, I don't even remember how I got here.
00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:33.200
That's a flow state.
00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.719
So time can speed up, it can slow down, it's when you're in the zone.
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:42.719
It has to do with challenge and skills and balancing those.
00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:48.000
And when uh the challenge and skill ratio is balanced, you're in the flow channel.
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.040
When you have too much challenge, that can lead to anxiety.
00:01:53.599 --> 00:02:00.799
So for me as a high school teacher, there was a lot of challenge there, and lots of anxiety.
00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:05.920
If there is too little challenge, then that can lead to boredom.
00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:08.080
All right, you want to explain?
00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:09.039
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:12.800
So as Emily kind of indicated, we got all the props today.
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:16.560
We drew this out for those that you can hopefully see on the video here.
00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:24.319
But yeah, if you were to plot on a XY Cartesian, you know, system here, we'd have challenge versus skills, right?
00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:30.400
And as Emily said, you know, when you balance these challenge and skills, you find what's called a flow channel.
00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:39.840
And what's cool about, you know, flow states is that when you say find your flow, yoga's got it built in to where we meet what's called the antecedents of flow.
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:42.080
So there's three things to get you in a flow state.
00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:52.240
You need to have these challenge to skill, and we're gonna go over that in a in a moment here, uh, balanced here, that ratio relative to you, the clear goals, and then immediate feedback.
00:02:52.400 --> 00:03:01.360
And one thing that I want to say before we dive into the nitty-gritty of this awesome plot here from the psychologist Mihai Chicks at Mihai, who did all this fantastic work.
00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:14.879
He's got a book called Flow, which I recommend you all read for those wanting to learn more about it from the psychology standpoint, is that modern-day neuroscience has actually found that when you're in flow states, there's a couple theories.
00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:29.120
The one I resonate with is where the if you touch your forehead right now, if you're driving, obviously keep one hand on the wheel, but if you touch your hand to your forehead, when you're in a flow state, the relative activity in your brain will sort of it diminishes.
00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:33.360
And what you start to see is alpha theta brain waves, and we're going to go over that in a little bit.
00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.599
But what's cool is that you're in that zone, like Emily talked about, when you're driving, right?
00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:45.039
And when you get out of a class sometimes and it was 60 minutes and it felt like five minutes went by, you've experienced flow yourself.
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:57.039
How can you elaborate on goals, feedback, and how that relates to a yoga practice?
00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:01.759
So the one example we love to talk about, right, is the Warrior 3, right?
00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:11.360
And you know, if we indicate in the class that, you know, students are to do Vera Bhadrasna three, hopefully you've led up to the warmups, the component parts to get students ready for that, right?
00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:14.639
And you know, that's a clear goal, right?
00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:21.680
So when students have this idea of the clear goal, that's one antecedent to flow.
00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.720
So the feedback right away when you're lifting.
00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:33.199
So picture if you don't know what Warrior Three is, imagine you've got one leg standing on the ground, you're lifting the other leg behind you, and you're sending the torso forward.
00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:36.160
So you look like a T, if you will, on the on the yoga mat.
00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:37.839
Sometimes known as like airplane.
00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:39.120
Airplane, right?
00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:39.920
Exactly.
00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:42.480
Other variations, absolutely, where the arms are.
00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:43.680
No, thank you.
00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:53.439
And right away, if you could imagine, because we're all fighting gravity, all of us every day, when you lift that back leg, you feel gravity, right?
00:04:53.600 --> 00:05:02.639
Even though the leg anatomically is in neutral, it's the standing leg that's doing sort of the action, if you will, from you know the hip flexion standpoint.
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.680
But with the back leg, you feel the weight of gravity.
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:07.120
So that's immediate feedback.
00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:13.839
So the challenge, of course, is okay, you have in your mind this T sort of posture in your lower body, upper body.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:22.560
And now it's the application of the skill where you're showing up on your practice, you've practiced hip flexion, you've practiced shoulder flexion to get the arms out in front.
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:32.319
So when you can balance the challenge and skill there with the feedback of gravity to hit that warrior three, all those perfect things align, you're in a flow state.
00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:42.240
So for me, I feel like flow is important in a yoga practice because it helps me be present and really kind of go inward.
00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:44.800
Now, you know a lot about flow.
00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:54.000
If I were to get into a flow state in my morning yoga practice, would that make me more likely to have flow states later on in my day?
00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.879
Also, I'm just curious like how many flow states a day can you have?
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:06.800
And if you had one in the morning, does that kind of set you up for getting into them easier?
00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:09.680
Like, so good questions there, right?
00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:12.480
So flow is very taxing on the brain.
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:22.560
So, first of all, I guess I'm doing my PhD in psychology looking at flow in the workplace, which you can readily apply that sort of black and white graph that we showed to anything that we do.
00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:29.279
And when we talk about finding flow, especially from the neuroscience standpoint, you mentioned something great in the morning.
00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:35.519
So when you're sleeping, you're hopefully in delta brain waves, the lowest frequency of brain waves that you have.
00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.720
Then there's theta, alpha, beta, and gamma.
00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:42.959
And you know, when you're in a flow state again, you're in that alpha theta brain state.
00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:54.319
So the best time to do any sort of meditation, moving meditation of yoga is actually in the morning, because you're coming out of delta brain waves from asleep, from sleeping.
00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.040
And now you're bringing in just enough stimuli, right, to get the clear goals, that feedback.
00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.560
The brain's kind of working a little bit, right, to get into that warrior three.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:04.720
Maybe first thing in the morning might be brutal.
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.600
Um, but so in the morning is a good time to find flow.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:11.360
Now, to kind of answer the question, how many times can you find flow?
00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:15.040
I have designed my day to be in a flow state.
00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:23.120
So we talked about on the previous episode that Stephen Cotler mentioned that flow is this optimal state of consciousness, right?
00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:27.680
And we said that the yogis had it right where they were in these flow states, right?
00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:31.600
They didn't have that language at the time, but they were doing it right.
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:37.920
And so the thing about flow, though, is that you're not going to be, it's not like cloud nine, you're not high all the time, right?
00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:39.680
It's not like a it's it is a drug.
00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:46.800
There's quite the concoction of things going on in your brain that are related to drugs, if you will, in a safe sense.
00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:49.279
Um, of course, there's a dark side to anything.
00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:55.279
But Stephen Cotler further goes on in his book, The Rise of Superman, he talks about four stages.
00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:00.079
So you have the struggle, the release, the flow, and the recovery, right?
00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:12.959
So if you think about it, if you can take those four stages, regardless of the time interval, and apply them in your life, in your yoga practice, they call it sort of like a flywheel.
00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:15.680
You get the momentum going on this thing and you can keep it going.
00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:17.120
So, what's an example, right?
00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:19.839
So say I go, so most of us work nine to fives.
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.160
I start my day off at 7 a.m.
00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:29.439
And, you know, I do all these little things to balance my challenge and skills, you know, with the have clear goals from a manufacturing standpoint.
00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:38.159
I work in the aerospace manufacturing industry as a quality manager and a lot of feedback, right, from customers complaining about their parts, having defects, whatever.
00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:46.799
So, anyways, you find these flow states like you might do at work that you have done at work, you know, where time sort of passes you by, you become very engrossed in a project.
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:52.480
But what I want to get at here is that to keep flow going, you have to remember two things.
00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:58.559
And I think this culture needs to really embrace this idea to keep this optimal state of consciousness going.
00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:00.799
It's the release and the recovery.
00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:01.360
Why?
00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.360
Because we're in a hustle culture.
00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.200
We want to go, go, go, right.
00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:06.799
So when you're struggling with something, right?
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:10.559
Say that Warrior Three, let's go back to that, you know, posture in yoga.
00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:15.360
And it's like, oh, this pose really sucks, you know, I'm really tight or whatever, and it's hard to hold.
00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.080
When's the heck is the teacher going to say the next pose?
00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:19.840
Why are you in it for so long?
00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.679
Um, you're working again the that's the struggle, right?
00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:26.960
So what you do next, hopefully you come out of it, right?
00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:28.720
And you go back into it, right?
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:34.320
So flow isn't saying that you're just gonna sign up and be good at it and you were born with it, right?
00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:35.519
You have to practice these things.
00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:37.200
You can't, you're not born into anything.
00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:39.679
So the struggle phase reminds us of the practice.
00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:50.960
The release phase allows, you know, whatever, I don't know what consciousness means yet, studying that on the side, but whatever you've done to the, you know, to your body and your mind, your body's kind of digesting it.
00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:52.240
Your mind's digesting it, right?
00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:58.960
When you come back into that activity, that warrior three, hopefully when you practice enough, you can find a flow state.
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:08.000
But because of what's going on from the neuroscience uh perspective in the brain, you have to recover, as Stephen Collar reminds us.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:09.200
And there's different ways to recover.
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.720
And what I love about yoga is yoga could be an act of recovery.
00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:16.399
So recovery doesn't mean just sleeping, you know, things like that.
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.240
But going back to, sorry, I'm kind of dancing around here because you can see I love applying flow in yoga and the work.
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:24.320
So back to the workplace, right?
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:25.759
So I went through flow.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:29.279
I've released, you know, different activities, you know, I went back to them.
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:32.240
I struggled with an email, blah, blah, blah, found a flow state.
00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:36.080
At lunchtime, I take a quick recovery of a nap, right?
00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:42.639
So you talked about how do you find, or you asked the question, how do you find flow or how many times can you find flow in the day?
00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:46.000
To me, it's almost, again, there's four stages.
00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:50.639
So you can only find it, relatively speaking, a quarter of that relative time.
00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:59.039
So it's not the whole day, you know, and plus you get you're sleeping at night because your brain and you know, mind and body have to all uh rest as well.
00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:08.480
But think about just to summarize all that, if you want to implement flow more, struggle, release, flow, and recovery.
00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:09.519
You need all four.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:16.240
You can't just go into a yoga class blasting music from the gate and expecting to find a flow state the entire time.
00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:19.600
Even in the yoga class, you need moments to transition, right?
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:26.799
To go from to reduce the stimuli to get them back down, to get them back into the flow channel, and then even moments of rest, right?
00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:29.919
Quick times in child's pose or in a standing pose.
00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:37.360
So you can design a yoga class, you can design your day, any work that you do with those four uh stages to flow.
00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:38.720
Super interesting.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:43.120
I learned new things, though.
00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:47.440
And I've been listening to you talk about flow for a long time now.
00:11:48.639 --> 00:12:06.080
So one of the things that we've talked about is, and actually in our flow workshop that we taught, I did a you talked for, I think we did 30 minutes discussion, and then I taught a abbreviated one hour ashtanga primary series.
00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:11.200
So Ashtanga we talked about uh the previous episode follows a set sequence.
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:18.879
And so what is the purpose of a yoga sequence comparing that to creative sequencing and also with flow states?
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:44.320
I know you and I have talked a lot about for me, I guess I really like that set sequence, and I feel like it when I learned about flow from you, I was like, oh, Ashtanga like really sets you up for flow because there's clear goals, you know exactly what the sequence is, you have challenging poses, like we don't skip poses in Ashtanga, so you have to at least try the pose, do some sort of variation of it.
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:49.039
But you gotta go through that struggle, you gotta go through that challenge.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:59.840
And so I guess can we just yeah, elaborate on what do you what are your thoughts on set sequencing versus creative sequencing and how that relates to flow?
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:07.519
I mean, I guess like, you know, it goes back to we're talking about again in the in the first episode, so definitely go back and listen to that.
00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:15.120
But, you know, yoga as once defined in the ancient texts, it was really 84 million postures, so meaning just to live life.
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:28.000
So, regardless of what you're doing, you know, it's whether it's a set sequence, whether it's, you know, spontaneity, I think it's really like dependent on how you break down, you know, the antecedents of flow, right?
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:32.960
The clear goals, the immediate feedback, the challenge skill ratio, like you just did with Ashtanga.
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:38.399
But we can apply that to a hot vinyasa class blasting music and it's 100 degrees, right?
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:40.639
Because think of it from this perspective, right?
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:45.200
The challenge, you might think right away, oh, it's the heat and whatever else.
00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:48.960
I actually think it's what I'm gonna call active listening, right?
00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.240
Because you don't know what the sequence is, you don't know what's coming.
00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:58.720
You have to be so present and so mindful to listen to the teacher, to listen to what's going on in the room.
00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:00.080
And that's a different challenge.
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:01.679
That's a different skill, right?
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:07.519
Now, obviously, there's downsides to that because when you look at the goal of yoga, right, you're trying to calm the mind.
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:15.039
And one thing I just want to say, I guess, with in terms of well, I'm gonna wait because that's the frequencies we'll talk about that with music.
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:21.519
But yeah, back to just the the set sequence idea, I think it really just sort of depends, you know.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:26.960
I think it, you know, I have, you know, I've rock climbs, you know, a good portion of my life.
00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:40.399
I've run 12 marathons, I've played drums, you know, and I just like when I say all these things, I just think back to when I was running, I had sort of set distances that I wanted, right?
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:43.039
Sort of a set sequence, if you will, throughout the week.
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:44.720
But it would change sometimes, right?
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:46.240
And I could could move with that.
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.559
And sometimes to get faster at running, I'd have to shake up the sequence, right?
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:55.759
And I understand with Ashtanga, there's that set sequence, but nobody can go into the pose, right?
00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.919
We have to still work the component parts.
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.320
Now I understand, like, well, correct me if I'm wrong, right?
00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.159
You get to a certain posture, you kind of work it and then you work to the next one.
00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:06.399
Or was that sort of the older school of thought?
00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:09.360
The old school was you were you'd be stopped.
00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:14.000
Like if you couldn't do if you couldn't bind Marichiasin I D, you would be stopped there.
00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.000
And that's kind of I'd be stopped before that.
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.279
Hopefully uh kind of more on its way out now.
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:23.679
Like I teach uh Marichiasana D just like a figure four stretch with a twist.
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:24.240
I like that.
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:27.600
And then yeah, and you know, maybe you do it a couple ways.
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:34.480
So maybe you would do it like that, and then maybe you would work a bind um without being in in the lotus position, and then move on.
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:52.159
So there's definitely ways, I feel, to work with the sequence where you can produce you can come up with if you're working with a teacher, they should be able to come up with another variation for you so that you can go through the sequence and you don't have to just be stopped.
00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:57.840
I think again, I it's like we're not trying to say there's one right way or wrong, right?
00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:09.919
We're just I guess the the boundaries of which this podcast is kind of was built from is if we're treating the sutras of Patanjali, these texts, you know, even the Bhagavad Gita, we can throw that in there, on what yoga is.
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:19.919
And if we're trying to calm the mind, to me, whether you have a set sequence or you don't, or you call it hot power or it's goat yoga or whatever the heck yoga it is, right?
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:23.200
If you're trying to calm the mind, you're doing yoga, right?
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:30.879
So I mean, look, regardless of these words, I think it comes back to the intentions of the teacher when they step into the classroom.
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:32.879
What is it they're trying to do, right?
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:36.879
Obviously, most teachers are trying to create an experience, right?
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:38.879
You know, they want students to learn.
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:43.919
And we're going to get to the enjoyment piece, the entertainment piece, because that's a very interesting one too, right?
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.639
The whole yoga's of practice versus performance.
00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:50.639
And there is an element, right, of a teacher being in front of everyone.
00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:52.080
Again, public speaking, right?
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:53.279
Very scary thing.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:56.480
Where there is sort of a performance aspect to that.
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.879
So I brought some notes here.
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.759
Can't read them from there, but I'm going to read them to you because I just wanted to make sure I got these kind of facts straight.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:08.480
So we talked about, you know, the different brain uh states, right?
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.319
So you have the gamma, beta, alpha theta, and delta.
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.160
And basically, you know, gamma is, you know, problem solving.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.119
You got a lot of chatter, right, to do that, right?
00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:25.599
As you can imagine, as you're trying to problem solve, the mind is thinking it's going to see a lot of high frequency.
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.200
And then you move into alpha theta, which is a flow state, right?
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.400
So you're in that zone.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:40.480
Like Emily said, you know, when you're driving, it feels like you know, minutes have gone by on a three-hour trip up north or wherever you are in the uh in the world, south or whatever, whichever direction.
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.720
And then when you get to delta, right, it's the lowest.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:44.000
And that makes sort of sense, right?
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:53.440
Because when you're sleeping, the brain's not doing much other than obviously keeping the rest of you alive while while you, you know, um not unconscious.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:54.799
I guess I don't even know what sleep is yet.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.680
But anyways, when you're sleeping, lower frequencies.
00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:59.440
But here's an interesting chart, right?
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.279
So, and I'm gonna kind of just highlight.
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:06.640
So a lot of music is played, or a lot of, excuse me, classes play music today.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:12.000
And what's interesting is, you know, this particular group here, of course, the reference chopped off.
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:13.519
We'll put it in the show notes.
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:22.240
Um, but they have a table here, and I find it very interesting where, you know, the genre of pop has a high frequency of 342 hertz.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:27.599
So that's how many times the sound waves are like coming at you, if you will.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:36.319
And so to put that kind of into perspective, alpha theta brain waves, okay, are anywhere from 4 hertz to 12 hertz, right?
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:39.359
So remember, the goal is to calm the fluctuations of the mind.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:45.839
If you're playing, you know, Taylor Swift and, you know, whatever other pop songs, believe me, I like Taylor Swift too.
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.200
I'm gonna admit, I'm not gonna lie.
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.680
Some songs I don't mind, you know.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.839
Um, but it's 342 hertz.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.160
That's a high frequency, right?
00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:02.400
And then when you talk about calming the mind, you're down, flow states are supposed to be at four to 12 hertz.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:13.599
So again, the question of set sequence, I think it's all gonna depend on how you know you structure the classroom as a teacher to get the brain waves to calm down, right?
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:18.400
So the goal is shavasana, you know, at the end of class to be able to sit still.
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:20.240
I think that's the ultimate test, right?
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:24.079
You'd probably agree, you know, in terms of like, can you actually calm the mind?
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:35.440
But I think, you know, that whole thing of the moving meditation still holds where, you know, music, even though, yes, the frequency of music you could argue is 342 hertz, the highest for pop.
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.680
African drumming was eight hertz, by the way.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.559
So you could do a whole class on African drumming and you'd be in a flow state, hopefully.
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.400
So there's a phenomenon called entrainment in physics.
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:52.640
And imagine you have the speakers, right, blasting at 342 hertz at you.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:20:02.640
And so there's a phenomenon where, you know, that oscillating at that frequency, that other object, you can actually pick up that vibration, right?
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:04.960
You've probably felt it with other people.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.960
You know, it's like if they're energetic, you become energetic, right?
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:17.920
But remember, in the context of a yoga class, right, in terms of the sutras of Batanjali, we want to calm the mind, right?
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.359
So one argument to music is that, okay, maybe we're like beyond gamma waves right now, right?
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:32.240
We're beyond everybody's thinking, everyone's got squirrel brain, if you will, myself included, sometimes looking at those, you know, Lego, Instagram, Doom Scrolls.
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:35.359
And, you know, so we're way up here in chatter.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.359
So music gets us down to a lower state, right?
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:51.599
And I think if we were to, if I were to sort of like make a hierarchy of yoga classes as they relate to the goal of yoga and how they do that effectively, it would start with like Pilates, right?
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:53.440
Kind of where the higher frequency is.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.599
And again, this isn't an insult to anyone, right?
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.559
This is just stating it from the perspective of frequencies and that phenomenon of entrainment.
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.160
So getting a little technical here.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.559
So we've got Pilates and hot vinyasa classes with loud music, right?
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:12.880
So whatever frequencies your playlists are at, just so if you're wondering, you know, hip hop is 157 hertz.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.079
You've got jazz.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:21.039
I don't know who plays jazz in a yoga class, but 103 blues, I've played that sometimes, is 79 hertz.
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.440
Um, hip-hop, I already said that.
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.160
Country is 122 hertz, right?
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.440
So we're moving down and calming the waves, right?
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.720
So Pilates, Hadvinyasa yoga classes.
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:40.240
Then I would say probably classes without music, and then going to what we call a slow flow, not whatever that means, right?
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.720
We've been to enough classes, slow flow is so relative, and what does that even mean?
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:58.319
And then I think yin would definitely have to place high in terms of reaching that goal of yoga because you're in a posture for three to five minutes, you know, and most people can't even sit still for more than I think it's nine seconds, is our attention.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.039
It's eight seconds.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:21:59.759
I think the goldfish.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.640
Yeah, so we're worse than the goldfish right now in terms of attention span.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:06.720
So yin is getting closer.
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.039
And I think, you know, the and again, this isn't to say that we're just painting a picture here.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:22.960
Most people, when they think like meditate, I gotta go to the, you know, the Himalayas and be with the monks and you know sit in the lotus posture and I do nothing, you know, and that's not really practical for a lot of people.
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:28.559
But working our way towards the goal of yoga, that is kind of the direction, right?
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:43.359
And remember, yoga was founded really from ascetics where they would literally go in the woods and like hang upside down in trees and hold their arm up for like hours, you know, and just basically an aesthetic, they just stood there and like did nothing.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:45.359
That was all that was.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.160
So yoga has roots of that, right?
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.200
So, but they were doing that to calm the mind.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:58.559
Yeah, and I think our like I encourage listeners to just go out and try different styles.
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:08.640
Try a set sequence for a while, whether that it isn't an Ashtanga set sequence, or it could be 26 and 2, or it could be a sequence that you come up with on your own.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:24.480
And then and try maybe a hot vinyasa or just like a vinyasa power yoga flow and see how do you feel with music, without music, with a set sequence, or without a set sequence.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:32.000
For me, I have found over my 10 plus years of practice that I like the set sequence.
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.519
Like I mentioned, knowing the there's a clear goal for me.
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.279
I know what the poses are.
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:45.440
Uh sometimes I'll go into the my practice and say, okay, well, today I'm gonna focus on Pinchamayrasana.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.480
And that is gonna be my focus.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.599
I'm gonna spend a little bit extra time there, and so that's my goal.
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:58.400
Or maybe it's I'm gonna really focus on my breath today, and then that's my goal.
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:11.200
So for me, that set sequence just really helps set up the the goal, and then I'm able to get feedback, that immediate feedback, because I keep doing it over and over again.
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:18.400
So if I've been practicing this sequence for a week or so, I might start to notice some differences.
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.880
And so I'm getting that feedback there.
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:23.680
And then you're building up skills over time.
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:29.279
As you progress through the series, you might get more poses, which then increases your challenge.
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:37.119
And so for me, the Ashtanga method works really well for me to get into that flow state and to get into that flow channel.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.279
But I know that's not for everyone.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.400
So again, just try, try different things.
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:49.200
Maybe give Ashtanga a chance or try a different set sequence, or like I said, you could maybe come up with your own.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:54.799
Yeah, and just I'm curious, Emily, to hear your thoughts because again, a lot of classes play music.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:01.200
I used to play music, you know, of course, drummer and the know where kids, I would play our music, of course, right, trying to promote it.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:06.559
And, you know, there's times where I like music, and there's times where, of course, I don't like music, right?
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:10.640
What happens, Emily, when you hear a song that you like?
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.960
What do you what do you do?
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:14.799
Or a song that you don't like, right?
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.160
Imagine the students coming in and they hear songs that they like or don't like.
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:18.720
Yeah.
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:24.960
So I recently, I guess within the last year, have, because there's a lot of power yoga where we live.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:29.839
So I've started taking some of those uh just kind of on the side.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:38.400
And I so used to not practicing with m with music now, so that has been uh different for me.
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:45.039
So what I've noticed is usually I can kind of tune it out because I don't know a lot of popular music.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.000
So if I don't know the song, I'll just kind of tune it out.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:54.160
If it's something that I really don't like, generally I just don't like rap and country, so I don't really hear.
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:57.519
I mean sh whatever.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.279
I just don't like the fandom around.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:02.319
I don't either.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.680
I just like the music, yeah.
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:14.160
So I will say mostly I I usually don't hear rap or country, and I think people know those are kind of polar polarizing types of music.
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.839
But I probably would definitely get like angry.
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:27.440
I guess there are some like, yeah, pop songs I don't like, and definitely negative feelings would arise when I hear a song I like though.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:28.880
So this happened to me the other day.
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:34.000
I was practicing in a class and a Grace Potter song came on, and I was like, oh my God, I love this song.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:35.200
What song is it?
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:37.599
And my brain is just trying to think, oh, what's the name of the song?
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.400
What is this one?
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.839
And I can't wait to leave class and go listen to Grace Potter.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.599
And she went to my college St.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.400
Lawrence, and I saw her play there, and it was so awesome.
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:48.720
These are all the things that are going through my head.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:51.599
And then I realized, crap, what did the teacher say?
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.319
I have no idea what's being cued.
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:57.119
So it really took me out of the present.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.440
It took me out of the class, and it was a distraction for me.
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:05.359
So I actually do worse with songs that I that I like.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:07.359
So then how do we balance, Emily?
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:12.720
This idea of sort of like enjoyment, excitement, you know, we find our flow, right?
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.640
You can find flow in music, right?
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.799
I can tell you countless times when I'm playing drums, I'm in a flow state, right?
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.680
Trying to there's also a thing called group flow, too.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:28.640
Um, Keith Sawyer was a the you know, student of Mihai, chick sent me high, the the godfather of flow.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.920
And, you know, Keith, you know, researched a lot of group flow.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:35.680
And so I think yoga classes bring elements of that group flow too.
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:43.279
But I guess like walk us through your thoughts on like just what does enjoyment mean today in a yoga class?
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:44.640
Let's just start with that.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:45.680
Yeah.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.480
So for me, you should be, it should be something that you enjoy.
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:55.279
It shouldn't feel like something that you have to check off that like you're dreading to do each day.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:01.440
I think too, going back to flow states, when you find a flow state in yoga, like that's enjoyable.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:08.160
And when you're able to like just really be present and in your body, that is enjoyable.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:13.039
I also think though, it is not just all sunshine and rainbows.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:20.000
It is not going and wanting to be entertained for the whole time and like having a blast and having fun.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:21.279
It should be challenging.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:22.799
That's a music concert.
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:34.319
And actually, I forget whose research it is, but if you increase your challenge by 4%, you're more likely to get into a flow state.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.519
So we should be facing challenge.
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.559
Things also come up on our yoga, Matt, right?
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.519
There might be negative feelings.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:46.400
And like I mentioned in Ashtanga, we don't skip poses.
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:50.480
So you're learning how to breathe through uncomfortable situations.
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:56.000
Doing kapotasa, the super deep backbend, there's a lot of fear that comes up for people.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.000
And it's not, it's not fun for a lot of people.
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:05.920
It's scary, it's uncomfortable, it might not feel great, but we still do it.
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.160
We work on it, we breathe through it.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:22.319
And that teaches us off the mat when we're in these uncomfortable situations, whether that be like a difficult conversation you're having with someone, or I think I mentioned this on the last episode: hitting a tire while you're driving on the highway.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.920
Or the other day, oh my gosh, I hit a pigeon flew into my car while I was on the highway.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.000
It just went right into my windshield.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:40.000
And so our practice on our mat, having facing these difficult things, we're able to then face difficult things when we're not on our mat.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:58.640
So yes, you should be able to find enjoyment in your practice, but it shouldn't 100% be enjoyment feeling like we're, you know, at a, I don't know, a dance party or a concert or whatever some of these classes are.
00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.200
Yeah, right.
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:00.640
Hanging out with goats.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:02.000
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:02.720
Cat yoga.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:20.400
So one thing that's cool about flow here, just to kind of wrap this episode up, is that a characteristic of flow is that it creates what's called an autotelic personality, meaning that Emily kind of was alluding to it, you have your intrinsically, you know, um, there's an intrinsic desire to do the thing that you're doing, right?
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.480
You're doing it for the sake of doing it, right?
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.160
You're not in it for the reward, right?
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.799
So you have the difference between intrinsic desire and extrinsic sort of desires, right?
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:33.680
Extrinsic is when I get that thing done and then I get an award for it, right?
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.359
I get a paycheck, I get a, you know, attaboy or whatever, right?
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.920
The intrinsic is when I just, I'm just so compelled that I want to do it.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.880
And that's just the beauty of flow is it's again, it's built in.
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:46.480
Yoga classes have it.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:48.079
That's why I love yoga so much, right?
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:56.240
That's such a such a crossover with flow in psychology, flow in neuroscience, flow in yoga, because again, the yogis got it right.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.599
They were intrinsically motivated to show up, right?
00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:01.599
So don't feel guilty, right?
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:05.039
If you want to go to classes and listen to music and things like that.
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.599
I don't think that's kind of the, that's not what we're saying.
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:18.559
Again, we're just saying that if you want to follow the sutras of Batanjali to calm the fluctuations of the mind, which is the goal of yoga, just question is music doing it for you?
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.640
Are fast-paced classes doing it for you?
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:22.319
Maybe some weeks it is, right?
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:24.160
Sometimes life really sucks, right?
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.480
You get a pigeon flying in your car, right?
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.319
Maybe you want to hear Grace Potter.
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.759
You know, you can't sit with yourself for that day, and that's fine, right?
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:35.599
We're thinking it in terms of the long term adventure.
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:36.480
All right.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.039
Does that wrap up this episode?
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:40.079
I think so.
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:40.880
All right.
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:41.680
Thanks so much.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:42.799
We'll see everyone next time.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:48.400
And remember, at your yoga practice, what you do on the mat, you do off the mat as well.
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:49.279
Love it.
