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S3 E7: A Blind Date with Your Yarn, with Melanie Berg

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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week, I’m joined by Melanie Berg, the knitwear designer behind Mairlynd.

I first met Melanie when I accidentally attended one of her shawl-design classes entirely in German. Thanks to Google Translate, I managed to follow the class and came away inspired to create my Tide Path shawl.

In this conversation, we explore the relationship between creativity and practicality. Melanie talks about knowing when a design has become too complicated, the difference between designing and writing a usable pattern, and why she thinks of swatching as going on a blind date with your yarn.

She also shares the deeply personal story behind her row maps. The idea grew from her own experience of breast cancer and her connection with Chad Lewis, who helped people continue knitting while undergoing cancer treatment. Their row maps now help knitters keep their place when illness, grief or life itself makes concentration difficult.

We also talk about colour, variegated yarn, left-handed knitting, sustainability, the realities of earning a living as a designer and the difficulty of switching off when creative work is also your hobby.

Melanie turns the tables on me too, asking about humour, social media and what I would do if Instagram disappeared tomorrow.

It’s a warm and wide-ranging conversation about making, teaching and creating patterns that are not only beautiful, but genuinely enjoyable to knit.

Find Melanie at https://mairlynd.de, on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/mairlynd/, or discover The Knit Class at https://www.knitclass.com/.

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IN THIS EPISODE

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TRANSCRIPT 🔗

WEBVTT
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A few years ago I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
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I'm healthy now, I've gone through treatment, and I'm yeah, I'm I'm a healthy and happy person nowadays.
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But um that was really a tough time in my life.
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And being a knitwear designer, of course, I kept knitting throughout my treatment.
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And then one day I found a lovely message in my inbox from Chad Lewis, whom I hadn't known up to that date.
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And he very kindly introduced himself, told me that he was a knitting teacher at a cancer center in Toronto.
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And we had a lovely conversation, and throughout that conversation, we came up with the idea of roadmaps to make it easier for those patients to stay on track and to still be able to knit during a hard time.
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Hello and welcome to Yarn Library with me, Adam Clevely, the podcast where I talk to fascinating people in the fiber world about knitting, creativity, community, and the stories behind the stitches.
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Pick up your needles, pour a cup of tea, settle in, and welcome to the Yarn Light.
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Today's guest is Melanie Berg, one of the most recognizable knitting designers in the world.
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Based in Germany, she's known for her modern shawls, garments, and innovative approach to pattern writing.
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She's published hundreds of designs along with several best-selling books.
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I first met Melanie in a rather unusual way because I attended one of her classes on shawl design entirely in German.
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It was one of the most thought-provoking design classes I've ever attended, and not just because I don't speak any German.
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I walked out of the class, inspired, and created my next show design based on what I'd learned from Melanie.
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So Melanie's a teacher, knitter, designer, collaborator, artist, and I'm thrilled to have a chat with her.
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Melanie, welcome to the art library.
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Thank you so much, Adam.
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Thanks for inviting me and for having me here.
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And um, yes, I do remember that iconic workshop, of course.
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It was, where was that?
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Munich?
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No, Berlin.
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It was Munich, yeah.
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It was Munich?
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Yeah.
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No, yeah.
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I'm confused.
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Yeah, probably Munich.
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So I remember you walked into the class and a couple of students were there already.
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And just from the way like you said hi, and I heard from your accent, oh, I think he's like a native English speaker.
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And so I was already thinking, like, oh, uh, does he know?
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Like, I mean, they I think they had the information that the workship would be in English, but it's uh in German, but it seems you didn't.
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And so I was really worried, and I thought, oh my gosh, now he he bought that ticket for the class and now he's not gonna understand a word.
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But then you came up with this super clever approach of using your like your Google translator simultaneously.
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Yeah.
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I just I I thought because I thought to begin with, I thought maybe I'll just I'll just give it a go.
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Like because it's knitting, right?
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We're talking about knitting, maybe I'll be able to infer enough.
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But my brain was scrambling, like it was it was too hard, and then it was then yeah, but you're right, like it was Google Translate on my phone.
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Like maybe technology can help me.
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And it was amazing because then I could I could put Google Translate on, and simultaneously, or you know, very nearly simultaneously simultaneously, it was just translating everything you said.
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That was really clever, and I remember that every once in a while I checked in with you and I said, Oh, and and do you still like can you follow along?
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And you were always so happy.
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Yes, yes, everything is alright.
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And yeah, that that was really a funny moment.
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That was really good.
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But I really did listen because I came out of that class with like a new understanding of how shawl and scarves are shaped in different ways to produce different looks and fits.
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Because it's not something that I was familiar with before walking into that room, and I came out totally inspired by how to think about that.
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And that's like that was then I've I've I've got it next to me for anyone that does have it visually, but my Tidepath shawl, which is this very elongated triangle shape, was was inspired exactly.
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Inspired exactly by that by that class.
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So I'm incredibly grateful for it.
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It it reminds me of watermelons, your design, because it has the colours of a watermelon and also this wet shaped items in the stripes.
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So I'm gonna be able to do that.
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I guess like seeds, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I think it I think it depends heavily on colour that one, which oh yes, probably.
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The colours you use in design affect so much what you what you see in it.
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Absolutely.
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I see that so often in my like in my designs and then what people where people are taking my design.
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And that is incredible.
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I mean, you know the Ravelry project list feature where you can browse all the patterns that all all the projects that people have made from your patterns, and this is incredible.
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And uh sometimes it happens that I browse the list and I see a project that I like so much more than my own version.
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And of course, my own version is the one that I usually like best.
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Yeah, because I mean I have the to pick colours and do everything as I um as I wanted to do, so I think of the best version, obviously, and then you just see this pattern, you think, oh boy, this is gorgeous! Why didn't I think of this colour combination?
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So that that can be really, really inspiring.
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Actually, one of uh tests that I saw for that one, that little stitch, that sort of diamond-shaped stitch that you're putting picking out.
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Someone used a variegated yarn for that, and I just realized how clever that was because then each of the little feature stitches comes out in a different colour along because of the variegation.
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I was so clever.
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You're like, why did not think of that?
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But yeah, right.
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That's the wonderful thing about seeing a design in hundreds of different versions.
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Absolutely, and stitch patterns like that that have that look like a stripe, but that also have this textural element to them are just perfect candidates for heavily variegated yarns.
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And these yarns, you know how we walk into the yarn store and fall in love with them so heavily, and um, it's often an instant buying decision, and then you take them home and you knit them up, and it's like, oh, I didn't expect this to look like this in my fabric now because there's just so much going on in terms of color, and it doesn't really mean that variegated yarns are bad or so, you just need to find a good stitch pattern for them, and these little textural elements they are just perfect, like they smoothen out these heavy or these hard colour transitions, and yeah, it's a very surprising effect.
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So I think your scholar would would work really well in these.
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I'll start with a question then.
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I I wanted to ask you about your communication of emotions and expression through knitting because there's something I've noticed that you've talked about before that you feel that you can communicate emotions through your knitting, and you've described that as a very artistic process.
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But I wanted to know: has there ever been a point where you've wanted to express something sort of artistically or create a stitch or a design where you've actually gone so far with it that you've then had to step back from it and say, hold on, no one's ever gonna knit that.
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I can't I can't do that.
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Interesting interesting question.
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I would actually really have to think about that.
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There's not one single project that comes to my mind where where it happened as you described, but I do remember a handful of projects that I stepped away from because I thought, okay, the pattern writing is gonna be too intense for this.
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Like this is gonna result in a 25-page PDF that no one will want to knit.
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So I'm just either I might change the idea, and that is often the case when stitch pattern and construction do not really align.
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Like it they align, but then by three stitches off.
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So for these three three stitches, you have to create another huge chart just to make that work.
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So those have been um occurrences when I stepped away, but in terms of hmm, like emotionally, I don't really recall anything.
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Feelings I that I really try to convey in my patterns are um feelings that I have when I listen to certain songs.
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That is a pattern in my song names.
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And um, yeah, if you like to take a look at my song names and see how many song titles you can recognize, there's surprisingly many in them.
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And yeah, music is just a heavy evoker of emotions, isn't it?
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Like you you listen to a song you heard or you you liked in your teenage years, and boom, instantly you're beamed back to that place and time.
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So, yes, there is definitely that element here.
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But as to the stepping away, I don't really recall anything.
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But it is interesting you say that about a pattern which gets too complicated and that you know 25 pages becomes something that's too challenging for knitters to want to work through, and that's a point where you'll stop and move back.
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We were talking about a pattern just before I hit record and I said we better start recording, where you you think it's your greatest yet, but it's a huge amount of writing that's going into that.
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Yes.
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So is the pattern you're working on one where, like, does it just fit into that?
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It's simple enough, doesn't it?
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So we are at 11 pages for this pattern, and I hope that I don't have to add more pages.
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So this 11 pages is still a manageable.
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There's lots of different charts in there.
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The pattern itself is fairly simple, but I mean it's not like there's 100 stitch patterns in there, or it's not really anything complicated.
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It's just that yeah, I don't actually know what makes it so the the pattern writing so intense.
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It's there are many small charts depending on what size you're gonna knit.
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And then what I've also what I'm trying to do lately in my patterns is I'm not only explaining the techniques, but I'm also adding videos, so links to video tutorials to make it easy for knitters to follow along.
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So there is a huge big process behind it, and it's it's just yeah, the workload is quite big with this one, I want to say.
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Because I've I mean that was that was a book you very dumb.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Well, it's not it was not my child anyway.
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I but I but I reference this from time to time because it's like it's it's full of interesting ideas and and and textures and interesting ways of constructing things as well.
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But yeah, the road maps is another interesting thing.
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Do you want to talk a little bit about that while you put that in?
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I would love to.
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I would love to because row maps are so close to my heart.
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It's a project that I that I love absolutely.
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So, what are row maps?
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You can say they are tick-off lists to go along with your pattern, yeah, with your knitting pattern.
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And the row maps for my patterns are free, so I'm I'm not charging any extra cost.
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It's an additional PDF document that you can download and then use as you knit.
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And every single row in the pattern has a representation in the row map, so you can tick, yeah, you can tick off as you go.
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And for example, you know how a pattern sometimes says, Okay, this is chart B, and now work chart B 27 times.
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And that is just it's a one-liner in the pattern, but it turns out to be lots of knitting, lots of rows, lots of things maybe happening at the same time.
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And the row-up has everything of that bundled together and yeah, kind of takes you by the hand and guides you through.
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It's like I like to say it's like a GPS for your knitting project because yeah, you're never left alone, you always know where you are, especially handy when you have to put your knitting down and then get back to it at a later point of time.
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Like the postman rings your dog, or your daughter rings you up and you need to drive her to her ballet class, or maybe another big thing happens and then you only get back to your knitting after weeks, and then you find yourself wondering, like, where was I in the pattern?
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And the first hour passes just by figuring things out and trying to find your place where you left it.
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And the roadmap, just one glance, and you know, ah, I was there, all right, let's start knitting.
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And where did the idea from row maps come from?
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Maybe, well, you know it, and maybe some of your listeners and viewers also.
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A few years ago I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
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I'm healthy now, I've gone through treatment, and I'm yeah, I'm I'm a healthy and happy person nowadays.
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But um, that was really a tough time in my life.
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And being a knitwear designer, of course, I kept knitting throughout my treatment.
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And then one day I found a lovely message in my inbox from Chad Lewis, whom I hadn't known up to that date.
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And he very kindly introduced himself and told me that he was a knitting teacher at a cancer center in Toronto.
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And there he's assisting persons who are undergoing treatment with their knitting.
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Could be, for example, he teaches a new knitter how to knit.
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Like how do you hold the needles, where does the yarn come from, or maybe more experienced knitters who are used to working on more advanced patterns, but just in that very moment of treatment where all the concentration is taken from you because you need to figure or you need to focus on other things in your life because other things are more important, but still you would like to proceed with your hobby because knitting gives you something positive, but you just lack the concentration that you used to have.
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So maybe just assisting them in their knitting and helping them to figure out like where they are in the pattern and what comes next, and so on.
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All of these things he was doing on a voluntary basis.
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And he said he would love to give my patterns to knitters in the class just so that they have a little challenge which is not too overwhelming but still results in a beautiful item.
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And we had a lovely conversation, and throughout that conversation, we came up with the idea of row maps to make it easier for those patients to stay on track and to still be able to knit during a hard time.
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And yeah, from then this roadmap thing has really become big, and now what we are doing is I'm adding roadmaps to almost all of my new releases, not only for shawls, also for sweaters, for accessories, and the feedback has been tremendous.
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Not only people who are undergoing um cancer treatment reached out to us, but also like a lady I remember wrote to me and said she just lost her husband, she's in grief, but yeah, she wants to knit because that had all has always been good in her life for her, but she just doesn't have the focus right now.
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But with the roadmaps, it's possible for her.
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So that was a lovely reassurance for us to get.
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That's incredible.
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I mean, I I had I had no idea it was it was that deep a thing.
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I when I saw it, I thought just looking at it, for me as someone who's relatively new to the world of knitting, it was an obvious, brilliant invention and creation.
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Like a well, obviously all knitting charts should have that, because exactly like you say, like following patterns which say now repeat this 27 times or something, what you always see and I see when knitters come to like knit nights and so on, you see people scrawling these tiny little like tally charts and so on in their knitting pattern.
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Um but it's it doesn't make it easy as easy to follow as as exactly what you created, which is that's yeah, which makes a lot more sense.
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A lot of knitters create their own roadmaps.
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So when they start a pattern, they first sit down and write another or write a little roadmap for themselves.
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So that um yeah, they they have the plan and they can tick off.
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So this is not a new invention by Chad and I.
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It's just I mean, I think there have been row maps before.
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It's just we are calling them row maps that is maybe new, and then also the way Chad creates them is really genius because imagine a sweater pattern, multiple things happening at the same time.
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Like you are increasing, and then at the same time you are starting a section of the pattern here, but then you need to stay in pattern, and then oh, by the way, for size five, it's different, all of these complicated things, and he manages to distill all of that information into that short, precise, and yeah, super helpful roadmap.
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So also chapter to chat for that.
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Personally, I also love just seeing where I am within a pattern, like how far away I am from the end, and and that's really useful tracking as well because you don't know.
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Sometimes you just get to a like now you think you're near the end and it says, right, now knit a hundred rows of garter stitch, whatever.
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Oh, right, okay, I'm not near the end then.
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That's right, that's right.
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But that can be treacherous as well, because when I'm thinking of shorts, for instance, shorts that are worked from the top of um upper edge, from the center of the upper edge outwards, downwards, they tend to have super few stitches in the beginning, and then as you proceed, the rows grow longer and longer.
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So these first 40 rows are relatively quickly done, and then the last 10 rows they just take forever, so that can be treacherous as well.
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And all of this really to make the knitting experience for the knitter as easy and smooth as possible.
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Yeah, because it's it's one hand having a nice finished object, but then if the way there was a fight and wrestling with the instructions, and that's no fun.
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And for most knitters out there, knitting is their hobby, like their way of unwinding and finding relax and peace of mind in a stressful life because we all have stressful lives.
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So that should be fun and easy, and yeah, I I think that's why designers, many designers put so much work into their pattern writing to really make sure that this is easy and enjoyable for the knitters.
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I feel like what you just said in how you describe most knitters are there because they it's their hobby and they want to have fun, that you're implying there's quite a lot of hard work and and large amounts of not fun in in when you knit.
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Is that right?
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Or that fair or no, no.
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I mean if you have a a badly written pattern, that's what I meant.
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So if you have a poorly written pattern, then it it can happen that you really have to like the instructions are ambiguous and they are misleading and you don't know what to do, and the pattern just leaves you alone, and then it can feel like you have to fight with it in a well-written pattern, of course, not.
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Like that would be the the goal that the knitter feels yeah, secure and safe and happy and and well guided.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:30.319
Yeah.
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Yes.
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How do you approach that in pattern writing?
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:50.880
I feel like I've I've got into quite a lot of trouble because I create something just as I knit it, and I've I've been through different versions, like where I try and write a whole pattern out first and then I knit it, so I I regard myself as the first test knitter, or I knit and I write the pattern as I go along and I'll take notes.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.279
That's what I find easier to do.
00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:02.799
But the problem when I do that is that firstly my notes are really brief because I think it's obvious what I've written, and then when I come back to it, it's it's not as clear.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:17.039
But secondly, what I find obvious and intuitive is not obvious and intuitive for most other people, and that's when I go out to my tech editor and then when I go out to test knitters, that is inevitably what comes back.
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:23.279
The logic that I've used just because it made sense to me doesn't necess really doesn't mean that it makes sense to anyone else.
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:29.039
And and this all that I created from from the class, Tide Path, was exactly that.
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:42.799
And actually, during the test knitting process, the whole pattern was entirely rewritten because the the structuring it was just didn't it was just too complicated for Anitta unnecessarily, and with some changes to it it it made it easier.
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:44.079
I totally hear you.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:55.759
And uh I had a funny story once uh relating to that, and there was a professor at university, and he gave his students the task to describe how they make themselves a sandwich.
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.279
So a fairly easy task.
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:03.119
You can say, yeah, you just take two slices of bread, you put some butter, some cheese, and your sandwich is ready.
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.680
But then he asked more and more questions, like how do you take the bread?
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:10.880
Like, do you use your right hand or your left hand to get the bread?
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.920
And then the knife, you say you use a knife, but where do you grab the knife?
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.240
Where it has the blade or where it has the handle?
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.599
And then how do you get, you know, getting more and more detailed?
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:30.480
And I I found that to be true so often in pattern writing because on the one hand, you want your patterns not to have this overwhelming length that people really have feeling like, oh, this feels like work.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:35.519
On the other hand, you must be precise and you must be you must avoid misunderstandings.
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:39.839
So designing and pattern writing are two completely different skills.
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.359
I completely agree, and I'm I I'm fast learning that.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:20:06.960
But but but exactly that, because I think if you if you have to write out a pattern from the point of view of which end you're holding the knife for making the sandwich, that is not a pattern which is gonna be enjoyable for anyone to knit, because if it requires that level of precision, then you're asking, I don't know, it's gonna be technically interesting to some people, but it's not an approachable pattern for most people.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.920
And most knitters know how to hold the knitting needle, right?
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:15.759
So that's not inf information that's necessary to include in the pattern.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:27.839
But it just serves as an example how you can really think that you've made a good explanation, but then you find so many things that you haven't mentioned, that you've taken for granted for people to know out there.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:34.880
But what if an alien came to our planet who has tentacles and not arms and sees that knitting instruction?
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.960
It will be very confused when we talk about grabbing the needle.
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:42.640
You might wonder which of my 20 tentacles should I use for that?
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:49.279
So yeah, this is just a silly idea, but shows us that you might think that you've made a good explanation when you haven't.
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:56.079
One of the other things that's come across to me recently is understanding as well how left-handed knitters approach patterns.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:04.799
Because that was something where I was like, what once I learned about that, it's like I feel so stupid for not knowing about it beforehand.
00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:18.480
But then also I can't say that my patterns are now written for left-handed people as well, but I'm trying to make them more hand neutral because that's another thing where do you necessarily need to include that bias as the right-handed or also on my own.
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:19.279
That is right.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:20.000
That is right.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:28.880
I have a left-handed daughter, and when I when she asked me to show her how to knit, I have to admit that I gave up after a while because it was so confusing for me.
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:34.319
And and then in the end, it turned out she could really like make this switch in her brain.
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:38.720
And whenever I said right or left, she was able to turn it around.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:46.400
And then lately I heard of a really great trick when showing left-handed knitter how to knit as a right hander or vice versa.
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.440
And the idea is to use a mirror, actually.
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:59.759
So you're putting a mirror in front of you, knitting, and then the mirrored reflection of that image is what the left-handed knitter can use to follow along without having to switch.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.799
Tell you a story.
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:16.480
I was teaching a class, and I was an hour and a half, two hours into this class, and I was using a 12 people I was teaching, and I had a camera set up above my hands to give people, everyone, the view of exactly what I was doing up on the screen behind me.
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:18.640
But it was a screen right behind me.
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:20.720
So I was going along and doing the class and so on.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:24.160
I'd get up and I'd talk to people, but I'd come and sit down, I'd do all the knitting and so on.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:34.559
After about two hours, people started asking some questions about the something I was doing, and I was sort of looking over my shoulder, and I suddenly realized that the screen was entirely reflected, it was mirrored.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:53.519
So I so I I'd been teaching everyone like the mirrored version, but I mean they they said it was it was an interesting thought experiment, but they just assumed that I was a left and left-handed yesterday because they were looking up at the screen rather than what I was doing, and that that was it was just flipped, and that was but yeah.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:59.200
And I mean we are laughing now, but actually this world is not a world of for left-handed people.
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:07.119
Like it's some sort of ah, I'm lacking the English word, like of a hand like a like a handicap, and everyone just assumes you're right-handed.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.200
And it's the same as everyone assumes you can just walk up the stairs.
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:21.519
But there's many people who actually have big issues walking up stairs, so that's why we try to find better better ways, and I do think we should do that in knitting for left-handed knitters.
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.319
It's just that I don't really know how.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.599
I'm I've not had a good idea for this.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:45.519
It's something that's particularly interesting because I've got a uh friend who I talk to about a lot because they're a left-handed knitter, but it's also surprising in the same way that right-handed writing, handwriting, basically was forced upon left-handed knitters for uh left-handed people for so long.
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:57.920
It's the same thing with with knitting, that because there are so few resources, so many people end up although they're left-handed, if they want to learn to knit, they end up having to knit right-handed as a result, which I think is a it's a shame.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:02.480
But hope hopefully you know, awareness changes and it becomes more approachable.
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:02.960
Right.
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:05.839
You've talked a lot about sustainability as well before.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.759
How does how does sustainability affect how you knit and and what you knit?
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:17.759
I mean, it's a bit of a dis um of an ambiguous thing in knitting as well, I have to say, because we always we talk about slow fashion, right?
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:20.240
We want to create designs that last.
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.359
We want to use yarn that is sourced in an ethical way.
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.279
And nowadays that is well possible.
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:32.400
I remember like 10-15 years ago when I started out as a knitter, the offer of sustainable yarns was really small.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:36.480
And it was just not as important to knitters as it is nowadays.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:44.640
But nowadays we can we can take that educated choice and and go for a sustainable yarn where we like the company and the company's philosophy and everything.
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:50.079
And then we make sweaters or or shawls that are meant to last.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:57.440
Yeah, maybe they could even become a family heirloom one day, like being passed on to your kids or grandkids.
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:03.440
So that is the wonderful idea about sustainability in knitwear design, in knitting patterns, in knitting.
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:05.599
And then there is this other side to it.
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:09.599
Like there is so many knitting patterns released each day.
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:30.000
And I to me as a designer, it often feels like wow, I have worked half a year on this one pattern to bring it out in the best shape possible, and then it comes out, and then it's it's hot for a day, and then the global attention has moved on to the next pattern, and there is such a high come and go of patterns.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:47.440
And I mean, I think it is great to have the market open for new designers to start and to put their ideas into the front of many viewers' eyes, but it leads to this oversaturated offer that we have, and then this is the opposite of slow fashion, I think.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:51.759
So that's why I'm calling it a bit of an ambiguous thing.
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:52.559
It's interesting.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:26:10.000
I hadn't really thought about the pattern design element of sustainability, and and in fact, that makes me think of the practice of creating knitting designs because I'm not sure, like, I don't think that being a knitware designer is necessarily a sustainable career choice for most people.
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:11.680
Like that's where that makes me think.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:25.440
Because actually, I certainly from the outside you look in and you look at successful designers and you see, you know, if you see someone's got thousands of projects on Ravelry, you assume the sales, you know, that they make thousands of sales of every pattern they release.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:30.799
The more you get into the industry, the more you more you realise, firstly, there are very few designers that achieve that.
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.480
Secondly, it's definitely not every pattern they design.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:44.160
And thirdly, you realise just how many designers are in the space, and the vast majority never get anywhere near that level.
00:26:44.400 --> 00:27:00.160
But for every designer, it still takes tens, if not a hundred hours of work to create a pattern, as well as all of the money and resource you have to put into paying editors or and and the work you have to do with test knitters and and so on.
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.480
You haven't even started promoting it yet.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:12.960
So you need to not only create the pattern, but then I mean you're just wearing many hats, yeah, as a network designer, and I'm sure you you know that perspective as well.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:24.400
You are like the photographer, you are the technical writer, you are organizing things, oh, you're the marketing person, you are the IT person that runs your website.
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:30.319
So all of these different roles, yeah, you are unifying them.
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.799
Yeah, it's true.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:47.839
I got and I got a question late at night on Saturday, and I was like, but it was addressed as a matter of urgency about a pattern, and I struggle as well to like I really feel someone else's emotion when they've got an urgent problem with a with a pattern that they want help with.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.640
And so like I replied immediately, and then the person responded, I can't believe you responded at the weekend.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.160
I was like, We well, you wrote to me.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:59.359
What like it's it's not a business of a hundred people, like it's it's only me.
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:00.960
It comes straight through to me.
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:02.240
What what else is gonna happen?
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:02.799
I don't know.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:08.480
Yeah, um I mean that is a thing that many self-employed people out there are experiencing.
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:11.920
Like, what is actually your free time and what is your work time?
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.240
And you you need to keep the business alive, you want to make your customers happy.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:18.640
Yeah, so do I reply on weekends?
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:20.640
Seldomly, I have to admit.
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.960
And I I just mark the email and then Monday morning I I'll I'm gonna get back to it.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.759
I think that's a that's a much healthier approach.
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:30.000
I'm not advocating.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.599
I mean, I I've tried to use myself as the example of not sustainable there.
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.759
Yeah, yeah, and I mean sustainable also with your peace of mind.
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:38.480
Yeah.
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:43.680
Tell me about your design process and how do you know that a design is finished and complete?
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:45.440
Yeah, I find that easy.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:29:00.480
This question of a finished item, it's not as in painting where you have a painting and then you might add strokes here, and then you you think the shadows are not yet deep enough, and then you go back to the part that you painted first in your painting and you refine that.
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:02.160
That is not possible in knitting.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.079
You can't really go back to your cast on and then say, Oh, and now I'm gonna refine the cast on.
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:07.759
No, done is done.
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:12.160
So I usually try to find a good balance between creativeness and functionality.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:18.880
And functionality, for example, would mean the pattern requires three skeins or three 100 gram hangs of yarn.
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:24.880
So I don't want one yarn, one of them just to be used one percent and and nothing else.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:32.400
Yeah, or I don't want to use the others up to 99% because that would like some people just knit a bit looser.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:41.680
And if I do so, because I really so from pattern writing aspect, I don't want to do that, but from my personal feeling, I want to get the most out of my yardage.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:44.400
Yeah, so I actually want to use them 100%.
00:29:45.119 --> 00:30:00.240
So what I do is I try towards the end of the pattern to write the pattern in a way that it leaves options for the knitter to do more repeats if needed or if if desired, or to leave repeats out if you if you are running low on a yardage.
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:07.440
And then this is not a huge change to the overall look of most of my yeah, shawls, I guess you could say.
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.480
Um, but it it's just yeah, adding a bit of freedom that the knitter can have.
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:25.519
And I think it's a great thing about shawls is that you you've got a much better option to be able to get through the amount of yarn you want to be able to use, and you want to be able to, you know, if you want to be able to finish it, you can just make it longer or you can find it off earlier.
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:36.319
In garments, you can do it like that in a way, but like you can make the the lower ribbing a bit longer or shorter, but there's not as much variation.
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:46.799
Like a bit okay, yes, but then I mean you don't want it to to last to your knees or or reach your knees or end at the I don't know, like being shoo too short.
00:30:46.960 --> 00:31:00.480
Yeah, so that is the the thin line to walk between functionality and like the creative part is of course you want the pattern to be beautiful and you want to do everything so that the pattern is the most beautiful it can be and that it can shine and then yeah.
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:13.920
I think painters, if we come full circle to that start um again, they have more creative freedom because they can go back to other sections in the painting and then they can introduce new materials or whatsoever.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:21.680
But we kind of like knitting is a is a sequence of stitches, and you have to stay in the sequence for most times.
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:22.880
And you can't, yeah.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:36.799
I I find that I find that quite frustrating that for certainly a really big project like a shawl or something, if you want to go back and change something within the design, you really don't have that option unless you're going to do a substantial re knit.
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:38.480
Like it's really, really hard.
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:40.079
Yes, it is, it is.
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:46.319
I mean, you could always find a workaround, like you cut it open and then you pick up stitches, and then well, but who wants to do that?
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:48.640
That's and it doesn't always work out either.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:54.480
So yeah, I mean you better plan your knitting projects ahead, being a designer, right?
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:55.519
So it's just to say.
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.559
How do you do that?
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:00.400
Do you do you swatch parts of your designs then before you put them together?
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.920
Is that is that how that works for you?
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:04.559
Huge swatcher, yes, yeah.
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.960
I've not always been, but the older I get, the more I swatch, I can say.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.119
And the more and the more I enjoy it.
00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:15.279
It's like it is not a task, it's not a chore, yeah.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.880
It's more I I like to think of it as a blind date with your yarn.
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:25.920
Like you're going out, you don't know yet who that person is or who that yarn is, how they behave, what characteristics they have.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:36.559
And then you start knitting, you start combining maybe different colors in that very same yarn, and you get a feeling for the stitch definition, the drape, and how it knits up and how the colors respond to one another.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:42.880
So you just learn a lot of things, and then that knowledge gives you the option to write the best pattern.
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:49.440
If you just write the pattern without uh regards to the yarn, it's like blindfolded knitting.
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:51.039
Why should I do that?
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:53.680
That's I I want to, yeah, I don't know.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:00.640
I I think you really need to know your materials, and that is not only knitting needles and and tools, it's also the yarn as material.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:01.920
So, how do you do that?
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:06.559
Do you swatch for your designs or are you diving right into the adventure?
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:12.799
My my favourite thing that I do, it's like my favorite knitting activity.
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.720
It's it's funny, I'm welling up just thinking about it because I don't get to do it enough.
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:31.759
But I I passionately love sitting down with a pair of needles and a ball of yarn and just knitting something and thinking about like I'm and I where I get to then like play with a stitch.
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:47.359
And like sometimes I'll sit down with my stitch dictionaries and I'll be browsing through them either for ideas of stitches I want to combine, or if I want to play with a particular stitch and I want to look at how it sits next to another one, or those kind of textures, how they play with each other.
00:33:47.519 --> 00:34:04.240
But that process, so I have these, I have these long swatches and w which I keep in a box, and often you'll see in those swatches where I've got one stitch at the bottom or one idea at the bottom, and you'll see me try it again and again and again, just changing something about it each time.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:09.920
And normally if if it's gone well, you get to the top of it, and I've just torn it off.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.960
I'm like, right, I've got a design now, and I just go and write it down because it's then something that clicks and it works.
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:27.920
And so many times that just fails, and it's the process of like you do it and you've had this idea and you've got excited about it, you've tried to knit it, and it just fails, and you accept it and walk away, and it goes in the box.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:38.480
But sometimes you just get that like that epiphany of that works, I love that, that's a joy to make, it looks different, it looks interesting, it's stimulating to me in some way.
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:39.920
That I I love so much.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:41.519
That's so exciting for me.
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:51.519
And and yeah, so so for me, that swatching process is like the most it is like one of the times I get to be most creative, and I I really love it, I really enjoy it.
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:53.519
Yeah, I 100% agree.
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:54.960
I I totally hear you.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:01.119
And uh, it's like you you can work so freight from oh, how can I make this work in a pattern?
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:03.199
And will there be interest in the pattern?
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:08.000
And does this rate of increases go along with the number of stitches that I have in the repeat?
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:08.880
No, don't worry.
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.840
You can just knit on, it's like like on a playground.
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:16.639
You're like the the little boy with a crayons and just messing around.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:20.320
That's exactly like it's exactly as you tell a child to do it.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.400
Uh, but but it's not just a childish thing.
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:24.800
I think it's it's in so many disciplines.
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.440
You know, you wouldn't expect an architect to just go and draw a final design for a house.
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:38.800
They better, they better You hope not Well, it definitely won't be final, it'll be falling down.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:43.679
But you would thoroughly expect loads and loads of sketches and and so on.
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:51.920
And I don't think I think most knitters who don't design, I think that's part of the fear of swatching, because that why why should I bother doing that?
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:57.280
Whereas I think once you get into a design process, swatching is something that you can develop a passion for.
00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:59.440
Because I don't think about swatching as swatching.
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.320
I call it like in my head, it's sketching.
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:05.599
It's exactly the same as Oh, yes, sketching with yarn.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:07.840
I think it's it's sketching with yarn, exactly.
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:09.119
I got that's cool.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:14.960
Maybe I maybe I draw something out in a book first, but I've got an idea and I'm just trying to sketch it out with yarn.
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:16.079
That's all I'm trying to do.
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:23.360
And that and that for me, if I do that, that's one of the times when I cannot look at the clock and I realize that three hours have gone by just playing with this idea.
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:25.199
So good.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:26.159
That's so good.
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:26.719
Yeah.
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:27.199
Yeah.
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:28.639
No, I totally hear you.
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.920
Um, I wanted to ask you something that goes into that direction.
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:44.960
I mean, we've we've talked a lot about writing knitting patterns now, okay, about being creative, but also about like how do we phrase things, how do we make our patterns approachable for knitters, how do we make them well, well, our instructions precise.
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:48.960
So that is a very rational approach, I think.
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:52.719
Yeah, it's a very logic approach and and and quite functional.
00:36:53.039 --> 00:37:01.360
And then so that is one part of your business, but then you also have all the the humor parts, so you really make people laugh.
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.800
And uh yeah, can you tell me a bit about that balance?
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:23.440
So on the one hand, the pure logic of knitting and being like a very mathematical and not very funny thing in that in that sense, and then drawing the line and and finding a conclusion to be um yeah, to make knitting so much fun and so and and make people laugh, find humor in that.
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:24.880
It's it's interesting.
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:36.639
I don't I think I do my my Instagram and social media stuff is is heavily whimsical because I don't go out and plan a month or three months worth of content.
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:42.719
Typically, I don't know what is going to be posted today or tomorrow, and it tends to be very much about what I'm feeling about.
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:49.440
Sometimes I have projects where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do a number of posts about this this week, but that's very, very rare.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:55.280
And and I think then my mood comes across as a result.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:18.159
And if I'm thinking about something that's that I think I found funny, and typically it might have been something that I've observed, either that I've seen on social media is an idea in one place, I want to use that, or it's something I've seen in a knitting group or some evidence of somewhere, and I want to like there's like there's something very odd about that that I want to bring to more people.
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:27.599
But what I really love, I mean, I must say, when when I've created reels and sketches which make people laugh and engage people in that way, it just lights me up.
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:36.960
The idea that I've made a thousand or ten thousand or a hundred thousand people smile or laugh at something really warms me, and so I love doing that.
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:39.599
But there are there are times when it doesn't always happen.
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:53.440
Like I feel recently I've just not felt very funny in myself, and I've not felt that kind of side of energy, and so there's been m there's been less of that on my Instagram account as a result, and that's I guess because it is just a reflection of me.
00:38:53.519 --> 00:39:03.119
But when I can do it, when I do find it, when I do find those observations, I don't mind dressing up or making fun of myself or or the industry.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:14.159
Like I'm just I am I am here for fun in in every sense, and I it's difficult because a lot of it is extremely hard work, whether that's creating a funny sketch or whether that's knitting and design work.
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:32.559
It's always hard work, but it's very, very rewarding to find that engagement with people and find that I don't know, that that sense of commonality that people find, both through through that level of humor and honesty about the hobby or you know industry that we're in.
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:33.760
Yes, yeah.
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.920
I think that is a super healthy approach.
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:45.360
On the one hand, that is a healthy approach and one that makes your content authentical and and people like you because they have a feeling, oh, like he's one of us.
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:47.039
Yeah, I know that problem as well.
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:51.679
It does not seem uh made up also, so that is really good.
00:39:51.840 --> 00:40:04.800
I think the danger in doing so, and that is what I what I observe in myself as well when it comes to social media, is that I'm always looking out for things in my life that I can turn into an interesting thing for people out there.
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:11.440
And it's for me very hard to say that okay, it's five, six, seven o'clock in the evening, and now I'm off.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:13.199
This it basically doesn't happen.
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:14.159
I'm never off.
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:22.800
And yeah, I think it would probably be good for me if if I did that, if I trained myself to really have that.
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:26.079
In German, we have the wonderful word Feierabend.
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:30.800
I don't know if if you've heard it, it means the it's like party evening.
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.880
So it's your work is done and you can party.
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:35.599
Okay.
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:36.800
Yeah.
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:41.039
So it it's really a good concept, and um, I wish I would have that more.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:54.960
And and I think it's a really difficult thing with with social media, I think it's a very difficult thing, and particularly where, like, as you're saying, you've talked as well about your knit, not just not just for social media, but you've talked about inspirations from nature and so on.
00:40:55.039 --> 00:41:02.719
Uh so I imagine Melanie Berg is out for a walk, and you're looking you're looking at nature around you thinking, how do I knit that?
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:04.000
You're right.
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:11.280
But but that's also then an interference of you know real life and where you could be relaxing coming back into your professional life.
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:11.599
Yes.
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:28.480
Um and I think, yeah, for me, that's true, and the social media side is is true that there's once it starts, you've got that little idea just nagging you in the back of your head, like, oh, is there something that like you think you might just be relaxing and switching off, and then there's something saying, oh, that's right, it is relax and switch off.
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:29.280
How's that funny?
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:30.559
Yes.
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.280
That's it, that's it, absolutely.
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:43.119
Um, so it's Monday here today, as we are recording this, and it's the last week before the summer holidays here in my in my part of Germany.
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:46.719
Yeah, I mean, you can imagine nothing is happening in the schools anymore.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:50.559
Yeah, everyone's just hanging out there trying to kill time.
00:41:50.800 --> 00:42:00.639
And then on Saturday, we are actually leaving for a little family vacation to the Netherlands, and we've framed this as a non-digital retreat.
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:17.599
So we're gonna as a family put our smartphones into a well-sealed box and just yeah, I mean, I guess you can check your messages for some emergency calls in the morning and in the afternoon, but other than that, we really want to keep it analogue, and I'm really looking forward to this.
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:23.360
Yeah, I've I've found I've done that more and more, particularly in the last 12 months.
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:33.280
And so I think like last year for me, because my Instagram was growing so rapidly and I was putting so much energy into that, I rarely had a day when I didn't post and I wasn't interacting with people online.
00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:39.119
But this year in 2026, I've been much more relaxed about that and just saying, do you know what?
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:50.880
When I need a break, if I'm taking a week off, I delete Instagram from my phone for that week because just to make sure that even if I pick up my even if I pick up my phone that I don't have a way to go into Instagram.
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:52.880
Oh, that's clever.
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:53.840
That's really clever.
00:42:54.239 --> 00:43:00.800
I mean, maybe maybe before you put it in the box, just as a fail-safe, I that's that's another tip.
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:02.079
But yeah, I I agree.
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:03.199
I I think it's interesting.
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:07.840
I think children are more, teenagers certainly, are more they understand the need for that.
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:33.280
And I know kids' parties locally where you know that when children arrive, parents enforce all phones go in a box, you know, they're they're kept out of the way because it it's so it's so easy for people to just sit there with their phones, and I think it's uh it's a difficult thing because it it does stop you being present, and you know, where your professional life also is conducted through a phone or you're able to, it's really hard to turn that off, especially for self-employed.
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:34.719
Yeah, that is right.
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:45.599
And in terms of teenagers, I mean I find myself very often wondering, or not wondering, but thinking, oh gosh, I'm so happy I was raised in the 80s and 90s where we just didn't have phones.
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:50.880
Um I I think that was that is a lot of pressure that we didn't have back then.
00:43:51.119 --> 00:44:01.119
I mean, yes, we've we've had pressure as well, yeah, but but not in that scope, maybe you can say, yeah, it's like curse and Blessing, right?
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:02.000
Exactly the same.
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:04.320
My my eldest who is is well into his teens.
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.559
I get it's a difficult thing to know.
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:17.599
I think they need to have a smartphone because otherwise they are failing to learn how to use it with in respect of the rest of society, the rest of their friends, all the rest of it.
00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:17.920
Yes.
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:25.039
But on the other hand, I think it's really important to have enormously strong limits on that because I think it's that they're very unhealthy things for children.
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:25.679
It's really difficult.
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:27.599
So but it's a it's an impossible balance.
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.719
And even for us grownups, it can be so hard to navigate.
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:33.119
Like you find yourself scrolling for an hour.
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:33.760
Why?
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:34.880
Why did you do that?
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:36.079
It's pointless.
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:36.880
Yeah.
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:45.679
But still, sometimes we we walk into that very same trap, and we are grown-ups with a lot of experience, and we know how to discipline ourselves.
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:51.519
Yeah, and then they are just kids, they are just teenagers, and we ask so much of them in that regard.
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:53.519
So yeah, this this is tough.
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:54.719
This is really not easy to do.
00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:55.519
It's very tough.
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:56.320
It's very tough.
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:58.480
Well, I hope you have a lovely holiday in Amsterdam.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:02.159
I'm I'm desperate to ask which uh which yawn shops you're going to.
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:07.840
We're we're actually not going to Amsterdam, we're going to a faraway place in Zeeland.
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.159
So it's just uh it's a place at the coast.
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:17.039
We've just rented a house and uh it's close to Middelburg, which is um like the biggest town around, I think.
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:20.400
And my friend already said, Oh, you need to go to Middelburg, it's so beautiful.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:25.199
So Middelburg nidders, if you are watching, then next week keep an eye out for us.
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:27.119
And uh if you spot us, say hi.
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:31.679
Oh, unfortunately, my my editing skills are not up to having this ready.
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:40.719
Okay, so then yeah, no, anyway, I'm I'm really looking forward to to this time.
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:47.360
Yeah, and I mean I wanted to add one more thing on not being able to find or to have this firearmed, yeah.
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:50.880
Always being on the lookout for stuff to use for your work.
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:56.719
It does also, at least in my case, I mean, I know that I love my job.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:02.480
So it is quite natural for me that I I want to do a lot of the things that I love.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:11.599
So it does not always feel like work, but still I think that even if you love your job, you need to take a certain break from it.
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:24.800
Also in terms of creativity, like you can train yourself to have good ideas, you can train yourself to turn a lot of your thoughts into really good design ideas or or content ideas.
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:35.119
This is a skill I think that you can develop, but you need a break every now and then because otherwise you are just coming up with the same ideas, and yeah, you you know what I mean?
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:43.039
Like I wanted to ask you about creativity actually, because I because obviously I think anyone would regard you as a creative person.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:44.559
Are there any ingredients of that?
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:46.400
Is there a recipe to your creativity?
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:50.239
Do you have a a sequence that you go through in order to be creative?
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:54.719
Do you have times where you're like, I am going to have a creative morning now?
00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:56.559
Do you think about it that way?
00:46:58.159 --> 00:46:59.280
I don't think so.
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:00.800
No, I don't think so.
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:01.679
Hmm.
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:10.400
I think I'm really well trained in what I what I explained just a minute ago, like turning ideas into um projects.
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:28.159
You know, I I have once come across a quote from someone and I don't even remember who that was, but and I and I can't give you the literal quote now, but the idea was that you can sit down and wait for the muse to kiss you, yeah, or you can just get up and go to work and get things done.
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:42.079
And but I I did find this a little provoking, but um, on the other hand, I strongly agree because if you have a job in the creative industry, you cannot sit there for three weeks and wait until you have a good idea.
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:56.320
You kind of need to be productive and you need to be able to have thoughts and then very quickly divide them into the ones that will not work out for a new project and then the ones that will turn work out for a new project.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:04.639
And then yeah, work with these ideas and yeah, again, it's this combination of creativity and functionality.
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.159
Somehow I find myself going coming right to the case.
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:20.480
It's really interesting that you I don't for me So the for me that is really different because I don't sit there waiting for the Muse to kiss me, but also it's not the case that I'm just necessarily thinking I'm gonna get up and go to work.
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:23.840
There's a middle ground for me, which is I want the muse.
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.159
And so what how do I actively go out?
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:33.840
And I do so I do create times for me where I'm like, this is a creative morning, this is the structured process I'm gonna go through.
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:47.920
And I do have times where I I think about forcing creativity because I think about creativity much more as a process than I do rather than it just being something that just ethereal that happens when you're sitting there and doing nothing, meditating.
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:52.079
For me, that is a much more active process that I go through in order to do that.
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:52.800
I agree.
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:55.440
And ideas come from making.
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:59.760
Yeah, it's like, for example, think of you're sketching something out.
00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:07.760
If you don't have uh paper and cranes with you, and you're just sketching in your mind, and then it's it's just easy to get stuck.
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:16.800
But if you put things on on paper or and get your hands dirty in a way, yeah, then this will lead you to another idea and to another idea and to another idea.
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:26.400
And maybe the first five ones didn't work out, but then eventually you'll you'll have the one that yeah, that is worth investing time and and and thought and process into it.
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:30.000
And that's what I mean with this getting to work, getting up to work.
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:43.920
It's yeah, identify the good ideas and then then really stick with them and and make something out of them, and not try to, you know, this muse idea and then sit there and just think about it.
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:57.920
I mean, yeah, in the ideal world, maybe that would work out, but then there is this whole functionality aspect when it comes to knitting and pattern writing, so it's always a marriage there between the two of them, and yeah, I try to keep things in balance, I guess.
00:49:58.159 --> 00:49:59.199
Yeah, that's interesting.
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:00.000
That's interesting.
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:10.400
I also hear that like the longer you practice creativity, the more it naturally occurs to you anyway, because you're teaching your brain about what you need from it to become a creative.
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:11.360
Yes, yes.
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.800
Same as with all the things in life, frankly.
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:19.039
The more you do a thing, the better you get in it.
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:20.159
That is normal.
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:26.239
Think of sports, think of learning how to speak another language or an instrument or it's like that.
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:27.599
Yeah, exactly.
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:32.480
Like you uh the phrase I'm reminded of is you plant the flowers you want to see growing in your garden.
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:33.920
That's uh Yes.
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.000
Yeah, I also had some questions for you.
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:37.519
So go and shoot them.
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:39.840
Well, I th I thought they were fun and interesting.
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:45.280
So um the first one, if Instagram disappeared tomorrow, what would you do then?
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:47.199
What would you do differently?
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:57.039
I mean, this is this is a really active thought that I have because I've seen it, I've I've actually seen it happen for designers and for you know entertainers and so on.
00:50:57.199 --> 00:51:02.079
People do actually you can you can actually lose it, but I suppose that it's not just my account being lost.
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:03.360
What if Instagram disappeared?
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:16.000
I mean, the thing I think I'm I'm loving creating and knitting, and one of the things that I've been trying to do more of over the last few months is actually spend less time on social media and more time putting my creativity into knitting design.
00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:24.960
And I think if Instagram just ceased to exist, that's partly why I want to build my own email list so that I can communicate with the people that really, really want to hear from me.
00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:35.599
And I feel like that would give me enough to just continue with my work, things that I find interesting in knitting and communicating that out with that group of people.
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:38.559
That's I would put more time into actually knitting.
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:40.000
I think that's that's what I would do.
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:42.000
Yeah, that sounds really good.
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:47.840
That sounds very good, and it's a it's a thought that I I find myself having as well sometimes.
00:51:48.000 --> 00:52:04.079
You know, I remember how knitting started as my hobby, and then when you turn your hobby into a job, you need to find another hobby because this mind space where you are in your free time is what yeah, where you can unwind and and where new ideas come from.
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:06.239
And if you don't have that mind space, yeah.
00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:14.639
I I feel like we are circling around the same topic all the time, like we are always coming back to creativity and taking breaks and functionality.
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:19.440
So somehow these three things have a a lot to do with each other, I think.
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:20.559
Yeah, I think so.
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:36.559
I think it's interesting as well, like how and where you put time and resource and energy, and that changes over time as well, because also when the algorithm changes in your favour, that also it can be very stimulating because all of a sudden it it's extra exciting for you.
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:46.559
But the problem is when it goes against you and when you when you fail to engage, that's also it feels like a very personal thing, and it's not, but but it can feel very personal.
00:52:46.800 --> 00:53:03.199
Whereas ultimately, for me, creating design and creating something that I care about and that I'm passionate about, I'm much less interested in whether one person knits that or a thousand people knit it because it feels fulfilling just in execution for myself.
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:04.480
Yes, yeah.
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:05.440
That is right.
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:10.800
On the other hand, like if your family depends on your income, then you need to have that in mind.
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:12.719
And you need to Yeah, that's very true.
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:13.760
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:20.159
So again, this is two things to no again, it's creativity and functionality.
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.280
Well, what would you do if Instagram disappeared?
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:24.800
All social media.
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:27.360
I'm not gonna let you get out and say switch to places.
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:36.800
Yes, I mean I would oh wow, yeah, I I Instagram is a big part of my life as a network designer, I have to say, and not only as of lately, but for many, many years.
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:38.559
So what would I do?
00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:45.280
Yeah, I guess in the long run, the same thing as you, trying to reach the people out there through other means or through other channels.
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:49.920
Could be email, could be other platforms, though I have to say TikTok.
00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:57.440
We already talked about TikTok in the past, and I feel like I'm not old enough and also I'm too old for TikTok, both at the same time.
00:53:57.599 --> 00:53:58.719
Like I'm somewhere in the world.
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:02.559
You used that phrase, you used that phrase last time we met, and it's exactly right.
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:05.039
Not old enough and too old for it.
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:06.239
Yes.
00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:12.159
Yeah, I mean it it would be a very interesting experiment, like a social experiment in the world.
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:15.760
What if all social media disappeared tomorrow?
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:17.360
How would that change the world?
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:18.239
What would people do?
00:54:18.559 --> 00:54:19.599
It would be fascinating.
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:20.480
Fascinating.
00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:23.519
People standing there with empty hands not knowing what to do.
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:25.039
We could teach them all to knit.
00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:28.159
But you also you also teach a lot as well.
00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:30.960
So you've got in-person communication with people a fair bit.
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:32.079
Yes, that's right.
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:36.079
I teach at festivals where we also met in Munich back then.
00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:38.719
And um lately I have launched the Knit Class.
00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:46.159
It's an online school for knitting, and this is another project that is so close to my heart because it's like a dream come true, I have to say.
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:49.840
And the Knit class is an online school for knitting, as I said.
00:54:50.000 --> 00:55:05.039
So we have different units with different lessons, and we knit things together, so there's very concrete designs that we work together, and then there's units on technique, for example, on lace knitting, on cable knitting, on chart reading, on color theory.
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:09.119
So all these things that could possibly have something to do with knitting.
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:19.760
And I try to make this very entertaining for viewers because yeah, it is their hobby, it should not feel like oh, I have to sit there and learn like back in school.
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:27.039
No, it should be very like enjoyable, let's say, and and pleasant and easy learning, and at the same time really interesting.
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:37.360
So there is also in the knit class a lot of tips and tricks that we show that you don't really find in the books, but that just come by knitting experience.
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:48.079
So you said you are regularly going to knitting circles, so you know how you observe a knitter, do something, and then you wonder what is this thing that she's doing?
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:50.159
Why does she hold the needle like this?
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:54.559
And maybe you approach and ask, and then you get this trick like under the hand.
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:56.400
100%.
00:55:56.880 --> 00:55:57.039
Yes.
00:55:57.440 --> 00:55:59.599
And I I I think that's so valuable.
00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:12.800
I think I mean that's one of the things that I have loved about social media and about communicating with people is that watching videos and or listening and those other forms of observation that aren't just reading makes such a difference to knitting.
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:23.599
And I remember the moments that I learned all the tricks were physical moments with other people because you see, and I remember like the cable jumper that I knitted, I was knitting that in my local knit shop.
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:28.960
There was a another knitter there, she was knitting away, but she was knitting cables and didn't have a cable needle.
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:32.239
And I just said to her, How on earth are you doing that without a cable needle?
00:56:32.320 --> 00:56:34.400
And she showed me, and my mind was blown.
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:38.000
I was like, oh my god, this is gonna save me so much time, it's incredible.
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:46.719
Yes, but yeah, seeing that and and seeing the physical demonstrations, I I don't know, I so much easier to see a video of that than just read it in a book.
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:56.400
Absolutely, absolutely, and I mean I have lots of knitting books at home, and some of them have photo tutorials at the end, and I always skip that because it does not give me anything.
00:56:56.559 --> 00:57:02.320
It it's I think it's super hard to make the transition from one photo to another photo, like what happened in between.
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:06.400
I don't know, I I think my mind is not made to for that.
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:18.320
So the knit class launched in German first, but we have since then also launched the English version, so it's an offer that is available worldwide, and I don't even know what to say because this project just makes me so happy.
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:21.760
There's so much that we offer together with the the lessons.
00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:31.119
For example, there is live sessions, there's PDF worksheets, there's we have an online community where you can post your projects, where you can ask questions.
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:38.719
We have this is my personal favorite feature, the wall of success, where everyone gets to submit their finished items.
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:43.599
Yeah, again, same thing as browsing the project list for my designs on Ravelry.
00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:53.119
What we mentioned in the beginning of the interview, like you see someone having such a great idea and taking your design one step further, and that's just super fulfilling.
00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:59.440
And then, yeah, of course, it's wonderful to hear that people are learning new things, but it's also me.
00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:01.039
I'm also learning new things.
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:09.119
Like, you know, every knitter, every once in a while, they come across the corner with a trick they maybe learned from their grandma many years ago.
00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:15.280
So yeah, this is just a super fulfilling project, and and I want to invite everyone to come and join the knit class.
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:16.559
So, where do people go?
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:19.840
If people want to know more about that specifically, where should they go?
00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:21.440
Where do they find that information?
00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:23.760
Yeah, it's all on knitclass.com.
00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:32.000
And um, also you can go to my Instagram, there's a story highlight, and you can just that you will find the link in my bio, and it's all on Instagram.
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:35.360
But if you want to visit the website, that's knitclass.com.
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:42.400
Or you can just go to my website, which is mailintde, and uh everything is is on mailintde as well.
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:44.800
So there's all the links and it's easy to find.
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:45.360
Amazing.
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:58.880
Oh, it's one of the things I love about knitting so much is that it's not it's a subject which is so broad in techniques and so deep in how much you can understand about those techniques, and then there's this other dimension to tricks and tips to all of those techniques you come across as well.
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:04.960
That it's just it is an endless opportunity to learn and nerd out more and more in whichever direction you want to go.
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:08.159
If you want to do that within cables, you can do that, if you want to do it within lace, you can do that.
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:09.440
There's just that's right.
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:13.039
And then just think of the regional differences in knitting.
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:18.159
Like, how do you know how people in Portugal knit with the yarn around the neck?
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:22.000
When I first heard about that, it was mind-blowing for me.
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.679
And yeah, that was something I would never have thought of.
00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:27.920
And I found that just so interesting.
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:37.679
So, all these cultural differences, also not only technique-wise, but on how do people actually do things and do things and why do they do it like that?
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:40.800
So, what is the tradition behind yeah, knitting?
00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:46.000
It's it's such a huge and vast topic that you can look at from so many different angles.
00:59:46.400 --> 01:00:10.400
I also have a passion in when I think about creativity, for example, those differences are also real big opportunities for me for learning because I also see when when you observe something being done so differently, there's a huge opportunity there as well for learning about what that actually tells me something different about what I'm doing, and I can adapt it because of how someone else, because I've seen someone else do it in a different way.
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:10.800
Yeah.
01:00:11.119 --> 01:00:23.760
Yes, and eventually you become a better teacher through this, because yeah, you you learn to see things from different perspectives and you you get an a better, uh, a more complete understanding of them.
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:24.960
I completely agree.
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:26.400
I completely agree.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:29.760
Um, I I feel like it's a really great point to wrap.
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:31.360
Is there anything else you want to tell us about?
01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:33.119
Yeah, no, not really.
01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:37.599
I mean, it it's been a lovely conversation, and I I really thoroughly enjoyed it.
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:43.039
I mean, I think we could go on for hours and hours, but we don't want to stress listeners out, right?
01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:46.320
So I don't want to also want to stress my editor.
01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:48.880
I'm I'm so grateful for the opportunity to talk to you.
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:50.960
Uh, this has been an amazing conversation, Manley.
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:53.440
And I think maybe we'll just have to continue it another time.
01:00:53.599 --> 01:00:55.920
It's been an absolute joy to have you on the podcast today.
01:00:56.079 --> 01:00:56.800
Thank you so much.
01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:59.920
Thank you so much for coming, and thank you to everyone for listening to this.
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:01.920
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:05.119
And um, yeah, I hope everyone enjoyed our little conversation.
01:01:05.199 --> 01:01:06.719
And see you next time.
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:09.840
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Yarn Library.
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:13.920
If you've enjoyed the conversation, please do follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:18.480
And if you have a moment to leave a rating or review, it genuinely helps more people discover the show.
01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:26.079
If you have a question, comment, or idea for a future episode, someone you want to hear me interview, email me at podcast at clevelynits.com.
01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:31.760
And if you'd like to see this conversation or watch my longer form videos, head to Clevelandits on YouTube.
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:34.000
I'll be back very soon with another episode.
01:01:34.159 --> 01:01:37.360
Until then, thank you for listening and happy knitting.

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