Tips for Introducing Your Protagonist in your Fiction

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Knowing where to start your story is one of the biggest challenges for a writer and how much of the ordinary world do you put in before your hero crosses over into the new world.
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That's what we're talking about today on the Writer Spark podcast.
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Hello.
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Hello,
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I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the Writer Spark podcast where business creativity and the craft of writing converge.
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Welcome.
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15 years ago,
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I was an avid reader but not a writer.
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I didn't know anything about the actual craft and I knew next to nothing about the publishing industry,
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but I had dream to become a published author and I set out to learn everything I could.
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Now,
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I'm a number one Amazon and national bestselling author of more than 35 novels I've published traditionally and I recently plunged into the world of indie publishing and I teach people like you how to grow in their craft and find success in this ever changing industry.
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I'm an ordinary person,
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a wife,
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a mom,
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a daughter,
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a teacher living in a small North Carolina town through writer Spark.
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I am doing what I love more than anything in the world which is teaching and helping others on their writing journeys.
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I'm here as your partner as you navigate your own writing journey.
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I'm here to help you understand the essential elements of the writing craft,
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to build your confidence and to help you find the success you desire.
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Welcome to the Rider Spark Podcast.
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My guest today is Zara Alter and I am so happy to have her as my guest and she is the author of the Argali mystery series,
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which is 1/6 century Italian sort of historical series,
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which in particular,
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I love because of the real history connection.
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Uh And several of my series also have real people and real um historical elements and I love bringing that in.
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So welcome.
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Welcome.
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And I would love to hear a little bit about your origin story where you began and how this series came about.
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Hi,
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Melissa.
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It's wonderful to be here.
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Thank you so much for inviting me.
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It's just like out of the Blue and it's like,
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wow,
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that's fun.
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Um because I always love talking about writing.
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So origin.
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Well,
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I've been writing stories since I could write,
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which is about five or six years old.
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They were very short stories.
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But,
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you know,
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um and the a series came about uh my,
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I was talking with my daughter and,
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and I was talking about going to Italy and she said,
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mommy,
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you should go to Ravenna.
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And then she started on this long story about Theodoric and,
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and bringing his ostrogoth people from the north in,
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into Italy and settling in Ravenna and becoming the king of Italy.
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That's a very short version.
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But anyway,
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uh and I went,
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wow,
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I wonder what it was like to live then?
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And that is exactly how this all got started.
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And I did go to Ravenna and I talked to I,
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I made appointments and interviewed several history professors at the University of Bologna in Ravenna.
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And,
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and of course,
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they were just totally jazzed that this crazy woman from the United States wanted to write about,
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you know,
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the sixth century uh Ravenna in Italy.
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And they were most giving of their time and of their resources and telling me which libraries to go to all kinds of stuff.
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It so that's kind of the origin and that's kind of how it started.
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And Argus um actually was a real person,
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but hardly anything is known about him.
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So I,
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I it was a wonderful combination of me being able to dive into the period,
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have a character and then create the character in his background because hardly anything is mentioned about him.
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How did you know about him?
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Um I was reading,
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I was researching and I was reading Casso Doris letters called Very Eye.
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And he's mentioned several times,
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but only by name.
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And then there's a thing where he was naughty.
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I mean,
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it was,
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you know,
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yeah,
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go fix that out.
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So,
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from there you got to really just create this character.
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So I got to create the character as a person.
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Yes.
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And give him a personality and a background and a family and friends and all that sort of thing.
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Yeah.
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That's,
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that's awesome.
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That's so fun.
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Um,
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ok.
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So what else have you done in your career?
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This?
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Well,
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I,
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uh,
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I was a poet for many years.
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I worked with,
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um,
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California poets in the schools um bringing poetry and teaching poetry to kids and in the classroom.
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And that was from kindergarten through high school.
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And then I taught at um the local university I taught,
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actually,
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I had a course for junior high kids and then I had a course for teachers.
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Um and I've been writing 11 way or another all my life.
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Yeah.
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That's so cool.
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Uh Poetry.
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I was a middle school slash high school teacher,
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middle school.
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Most of my career I don't teach in,
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I teach adults now creative writing,
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but I don't teach in the public schools anymore.
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But teaching poetry was always one of my favorite things to do and to kind of turn kids on to reading poetry,
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but really writing it and to be able to express themselves and,
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and tap into a different way of writing versus expository her narrative especially Woa junior high when everything is so confusing.
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Yes,
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hormones are surging or sudden,
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II,
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I was at one school where they,
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I couldn't believe this,
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but they changed the names of all the Hispanic kids and anglicized their names.
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And I'm like,
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how can you do this?
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They already are,
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like,
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totally confused about who they are.
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One minute,
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they're 10 and the next minute they're 35 and now you're changing their name.
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And that was crazy.
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But that poetry is a way to get into their hearts and let them really express themselves and get in touch with their feelings.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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With the school changed their names,
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the school changed their name,
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the school changed their names.
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I've never heard of it.
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So,
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uh,
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if they came in as Jaime they might call him Jim.
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Oh,
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really?
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Wow.
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Yeah,
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that was a long time ago.
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And,
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um,
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I found it totally horrific for all the reasons that you can possibly think of.
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Um,
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but anyway,
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I,
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you know,
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because I was a poet in the schools.
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I dropped in,
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out of the sky and we did poetry together and then I was gone.
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But,
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um,
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I,
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I was amazed,
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I think it's a bigger longer story for that,
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but not here.
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Um,
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yeah.
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So I,
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I always,
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I always been writing and then,
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um,
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I was,
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um,
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screenwriting and doing script reading.
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So I read a lot of scripts and that's when I realized that that beginning writers make the same mistakes or they misinterpret what they think is carved in stone.
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Let's put it that way.
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They,
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they misinterpret.
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What they think is carved in stone and nothing is carved in stone.
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What I've been thinking about lately is,
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is for writers is um how do you,
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how do you introduce your detective,
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your sleuth,
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the beginning of your book?
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It's how you hook your reader.
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It's how you get them to care about whatever trials and tribulations happen later on in this story.
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If they don't care about your character,
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they aren't gonna care about the story either.
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Yeah,
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that is so true.
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And even uh experienced writers,
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I mean,
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my 30th book came out recently and I'm working on a new project and going through it with my agent and,
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you know,
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we together collaboratively retooled the opening because of where I had started it and where she thinks it should start.
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And I mean,
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it,
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it never necessarily gets easier.
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No,
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no,
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it doesn't.
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It doesn't.
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I uh the,
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the,
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my current book that I'm working on um I was taking a course with Nassim Khan and I just took a practically the whole first page.
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I mean,
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I had the,
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my,
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my intro is a setup for what happens later in the story.
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And,
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and,
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and then when I was looking at it,
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I went,
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I don't need this,
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I don't need this.
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I don't need this.
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I need to get in to the action.
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I need to follow my own advice.
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I need to get into the story more quickly.
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Isn't it funny?
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You're able to see these issues in somebody else's work much more easily than we can observe them or even apply them right out of the gate in our own work.
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It is,
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it's just,
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it's,
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it's just amazing even,
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even though when you put on your editor hat,
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you know,
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and you know,
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you're,
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you're being objective and,
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and looking at things with a critical eye,
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it's still,
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it's really hard to see your own stuff.
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Finding that spot to begin though is a real challenge because you have a story in your mind,
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right?
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And,
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and you want to get all of this information across.
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But especially now,
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I think more than ever before we have to get into that action very quickly in the hero's journey.
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This would be the slew the protagonist,
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ordinary world,
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which you introduced somewhat briefly because we want to get right into the action.
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Um But in that ordinary world,
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we want to foreshadow something about this.
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What I like to think of this is where so many beginning writers get stuck is the ordinary world part.
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And I think if you think of the ordinary world part,
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uh uh how your detective operates,
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what are their skills?
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These are the things you want to show your reader.
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It's not how they get up in the morning.
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It's not when they go in the bathroom and look at the mirror and see their dark curly hair or their long blonde hair or whatever it is,
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that is not the ordinary world,
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the ordinary world for the reader is.
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How does this character operate?
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What,
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what do they do?
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How do they solve problems?
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So you want to introduce a problem?
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Hey,
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you know,
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it could be all,
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all the wedding muffins for the wedding party burn and the wedding is three hours away.
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You know,
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how does your cozy character deal with a problem?
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That's what your readers want to know about.
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How,
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how does this character operate?
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They don't care at the beginning,
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whether their hair is dark and curly or blonde and straight and they don't care if you're,
270
00:12:53,330 --> 00:12:59,299
if your character is short or tall or has a scar on their cheek or any of that stuff,
271
00:12:59,309 --> 00:13:00,049
they really,
272
00:13:00,059 --> 00:13:04,669
really care and how you make the connection with the reader is,
273
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,859
how does that character operate?
274
00:13:06,869 --> 00:13:08,099
Here's a problem.
275
00:13:08,109 --> 00:13:09,539
How do they solve it?
276
00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:18,880
But that needs to be done so subtly because you don't want to beat the reader over the head so that it's clear you're,
277
00:13:18,890 --> 00:13:21,369
you're presenting it for that reason.
278
00:13:21,380 --> 00:13:21,549
Right.
279
00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:22,369
We want to.
280
00:13:23,179 --> 00:13:24,580
Exactly.
281
00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:25,599
So I think,
282
00:13:25,609 --> 00:13:30,950
I think the easiest way to think of it is to how do they operate in the real world?
283
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:31,229
And,
284
00:13:31,239 --> 00:13:31,900
you know,
285
00:13:32,119 --> 00:13:35,750
the problem could be as simple as,
286
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:36,969
you know,
287
00:13:36,979 --> 00:13:41,090
the irritating neighbor coming in and saying,
288
00:13:41,099 --> 00:13:41,289
you know,
289
00:13:41,299 --> 00:13:44,880
your sprinkler over watered my Chaia or,
290
00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:45,369
you know,
291
00:13:45,380 --> 00:13:49,250
it doesn't have to be a big deal.
292
00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:50,059
That.
293
00:13:50,179 --> 00:13:51,390
So,
294
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:51,809
um,
295
00:13:53,039 --> 00:13:53,320
it's,
296
00:13:53,330 --> 00:13:55,369
it's just that there's this,
297
00:13:55,380 --> 00:13:55,900
let's,
298
00:13:55,909 --> 00:13:57,450
let's not even call it a problem.
299
00:13:57,460 --> 00:13:59,289
Let's just call it a situation.
300
00:13:59,299 --> 00:13:59,929
You know,
301
00:14:00,239 --> 00:14:00,440
it's,
302
00:14:00,450 --> 00:14:06,750
there's a situation and your sleuth has to deal with it and that,
303
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:15,609
that rather than getting up in the morning and eating breakfast and scrolling through their mobile phone or whatever,
304
00:14:15,849 --> 00:14:19,520
you really want to show them do something.
305
00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:22,099
So there's a couple of way,
306
00:14:22,109 --> 00:14:29,919
there's three main ways that you can do this and one is yes by action,
307
00:14:29,929 --> 00:14:30,750
action.
308
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,739
Uh and you can start right in the middle of things.
309
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:39,219
It's called in races and show your detective in action.
310
00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:42,030
Um If they're law enforcement,
311
00:14:42,039 --> 00:14:44,989
they may be winding up another case,
312
00:14:45,429 --> 00:14:50,710
they're gonna get feedback from the other people on their team or whatever it is.
313
00:14:51,229 --> 00:15:02,039
But the focus is on your detective doing something that illustrates a skill and also you want to show a weakness.
314
00:15:02,049 --> 00:15:02,250
You know,
315
00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:05,500
there's something where they aren't quite up to speed.
316
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:10,580
Um So because believe it or not weaknesses,
317
00:15:10,590 --> 00:15:19,630
readers love weaknesses because they're human beings and they have weaknesses and it really develops that empathy with the character,
318
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:20,130
right?
319
00:15:20,140 --> 00:15:23,900
A perfect character is not so interesting.
320
00:15:24,059 --> 00:15:25,239
It's pretty boring.
321
00:15:26,789 --> 00:15:45,859
And the whole idea at the beginning is is is uh that you want your reader to want to follow this character through solving the mystery and not only that but through a series because most of these genre mysteries are series.
322
00:15:45,869 --> 00:15:47,250
So not just one book.
323
00:15:47,679 --> 00:15:48,489
They are.
324
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:48,729
Yeah.
325
00:15:48,739 --> 00:15:52,359
So you gotta have a character that's got a lot going on.
326
00:15:52,750 --> 00:15:54,659
But you don't have to,
327
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,020
you don't have to,
328
00:15:56,690 --> 00:15:56,950
you,
329
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,780
you don't have to show and,
330
00:15:59,789 --> 00:16:02,909
or tell all that stuff at the beginning,
331
00:16:02,919 --> 00:16:11,960
the beginning is just giving your reader a peek at how your detective operates.
332
00:16:12,590 --> 00:16:13,030
So,
333
00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:13,929
in my books,
334
00:16:13,940 --> 00:16:18,770
I would say that I approach that through my characters,
335
00:16:19,549 --> 00:16:21,130
inner conflict,
336
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:22,869
whatever that might be.
337
00:16:23,219 --> 00:16:27,239
So you've got your external plot or your external conflict,
338
00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:28,700
that is the mystery,
339
00:16:28,820 --> 00:16:31,359
the solving of the mystery once that happens.
340
00:16:31,580 --> 00:16:37,840
But there also needs to be some sort of inner problem or inner conflict that they're dealing with.
341
00:16:37,849 --> 00:16:39,080
In one of my series,
342
00:16:39,090 --> 00:16:42,440
the characters Ivy uh Cole Pepper in my up series,
343
00:16:42,450 --> 00:16:47,320
her mother has un unexpectedly died which ends up coming into the plot,
344
00:16:47,330 --> 00:16:50,580
but she's grieving and she's trying to figure out,
345
00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:50,969
you know,
346
00:16:50,979 --> 00:16:51,859
how,
347
00:16:51,869 --> 00:16:54,250
how to move forward essentially.
348
00:16:54,510 --> 00:17:00,059
And um she's back in her hometown after being away for a long time and,
349
00:17:00,349 --> 00:17:05,739
and it's forming relationships and connections and um particularly these female connections.
350
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:06,199
But the,
351
00:17:06,209 --> 00:17:11,839
the inner conflict is sort of dealing with that unexpected loss,
352
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:12,810
you know,
353
00:17:12,819 --> 00:17:13,479
and,
354
00:17:13,859 --> 00:17:17,729
and that is what informs her throughout.
355
00:17:17,739 --> 00:17:23,280
And then that is what we see growth in as well as the story progresses.
356
00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:30,770
We see this natural progression of her dealing with the grief and being able to move forward,
357
00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:31,250
you know,
358
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:31,949
on,
359
00:17:32,219 --> 00:17:37,209
on some level I think that works better in a cozy than it does in,
360
00:17:37,219 --> 00:17:37,849
um,
361
00:17:38,579 --> 00:17:41,150
and say a law enforcement mystery.
362
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:41,849
Oh,
363
00:17:41,859 --> 00:17:42,199
yes,
364
00:17:42,209 --> 00:17:42,619
true.
365
00:17:42,660 --> 00:17:43,579
A crime,
366
00:17:43,589 --> 00:17:45,040
a crime mystery.
367
00:17:45,410 --> 00:17:46,660
Because,
368
00:17:48,229 --> 00:17:52,839
because AAA Cozy is actually much more emotional story.
369
00:17:53,109 --> 00:17:56,390
So bringing all that emotional stuff in at the beginning,
370
00:17:56,780 --> 00:17:59,469
let's go ahead and use yours as an example.
371
00:17:59,959 --> 00:18:05,479
What is the problem or the situation that you present right up front?
372
00:18:05,530 --> 00:18:10,319
That helps inform that character that then,
373
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:10,859
you know,
374
00:18:10,869 --> 00:18:13,280
ultimately helps that character solve the crime.
375
00:18:13,569 --> 00:18:14,079
OK.
376
00:18:14,089 --> 00:18:16,219
So we can take an example,
377
00:18:16,229 --> 00:18:17,520
like from the Romana,
378
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:24,119
the Roman heir starts uh with a conversation with Boethius.
379
00:18:24,250 --> 00:18:28,160
The main character Ali is leaving Rome,
380
00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:36,780
he's leaving because he doesn't quite fit in as far as the Romans are concerned.
381
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:37,579
He's,
382
00:18:37,589 --> 00:18:43,160
he's a country bumpkin and he comes from the south and there's nothing new and I mean,
383
00:18:43,170 --> 00:18:44,859
it still goes on now.
384
00:18:45,199 --> 00:18:47,280
There's northern Italy and southern Italy.
385
00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:48,290
All this comes up.
386
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:49,760
Why he's leaving,
387
00:18:49,770 --> 00:18:50,199
right?
388
00:18:50,209 --> 00:18:51,709
Bo says,
389
00:18:51,719 --> 00:18:52,339
well,
390
00:18:52,349 --> 00:18:55,670
I know you like books and I,
391
00:18:56,020 --> 00:18:57,880
I was wondering if you do me a favor,
392
00:18:57,890 --> 00:19:07,099
would you take this book that I made and take it to this young fellow that I know who lives in Austria?
393
00:19:07,349 --> 00:19:08,439
And Argo says,
394
00:19:08,449 --> 00:19:08,640
well,
395
00:19:08,650 --> 00:19:10,119
I only have two days.
396
00:19:10,130 --> 00:19:10,520
So,
397
00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:10,760
yeah,
398
00:19:10,770 --> 00:19:11,800
OK,
399
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:16,060
I can drop it off and that's the beginning of the story because when,
400
00:19:16,069 --> 00:19:25,060
when he gets to Austria and um meets the boy who's a teenager.
401
00:19:25,449 --> 00:19:28,920
Um His father has been murdered that morning.
402
00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:31,319
Ok.
403
00:19:31,329 --> 00:19:34,060
And so that's the crime that ends up being solved.
404
00:19:34,069 --> 00:19:36,099
That's the crime that ends up being solved.
405
00:19:36,109 --> 00:19:36,760
But that's,
406
00:19:36,949 --> 00:19:39,709
but he doesn't find out about the crime till the,
407
00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:40,699
um,
408
00:19:41,239 --> 00:19:44,170
the next chapter when he actually gets to Austria.
409
00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:47,739
But at the beginning it's just setting him up as a book lover,
410
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:53,989
which he is and hinting at the problems that he has in terms of not fitting in,
411
00:19:54,339 --> 00:19:55,479
in terms of,
412
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,520
of not fitting in.
413
00:19:58,300 --> 00:19:58,790
Yes.
414
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:05,030
Does that play into the story later on the fact that he doesn't get into every story?
415
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,329
And he also has another thing going on,
416
00:20:07,339 --> 00:20:09,170
which is he,
417
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:10,890
uh he is a mixed race.
418
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:12,500
His father is a Roman,
419
00:20:12,910 --> 00:20:20,030
his mother is o and so that sometimes presents problems as well.
420
00:20:20,869 --> 00:20:21,040
Oh,
421
00:20:21,050 --> 00:20:21,869
interesting.
422
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:22,449
Ok.
423
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:22,900
So,
424
00:20:22,910 --> 00:20:23,079
yeah,
425
00:20:23,089 --> 00:20:23,790
I think,
426
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,119
um well,
427
00:20:25,130 --> 00:20:26,160
in a cozy mystery,
428
00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:26,880
for example,
429
00:20:26,890 --> 00:20:36,319
it's whatever the hook is plays a part typically in how the sleuth is going to solve the mystery in the end,
430
00:20:36,329 --> 00:20:40,290
you know that there's some skill or something learned from whatever that hook is.
431
00:20:40,609 --> 00:20:41,920
I have a different series.
432
00:20:41,930 --> 00:20:45,510
My Pip and Lane Hawthorn Bib Man series,
433
00:20:45,729 --> 00:20:55,410
we get the sleuths sort of situation or problem actually through the prologue because we learn that there is this,
434
00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:09,800
this curse and this bibliotheca be presented in a lot of different ways.
435
00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:11,359
Absolutely.
436
00:21:11,530 --> 00:21:12,959
But either way,
437
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:13,729
see,
438
00:21:13,739 --> 00:21:15,469
even with a prologue,
439
00:21:16,589 --> 00:21:17,099
you,
440
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:21,229
you prologues are really attention grabbers and,
441
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:22,239
and,
442
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:27,540
and you're grabbing the reader's attention and you're getting them into not the main story yet,
443
00:21:27,550 --> 00:21:31,609
but something that's hinting at the story to come,
444
00:21:31,930 --> 00:21:33,119
that's the thing.
445
00:21:33,130 --> 00:21:42,640
So I I think the emphasis for today is do that go into the story right away,
446
00:21:42,650 --> 00:21:45,930
however you want to do it can do it through action,
447
00:21:45,939 --> 00:21:48,500
you can do it through dialogue,
448
00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:52,819
you can do it through raising a question but just get,
449
00:21:52,890 --> 00:21:54,589
get into this story.
450
00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:56,920
Save the back story,
451
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,729
save the what they're wearing,
452
00:22:00,979 --> 00:22:03,939
save the mean streets of L A,
453
00:22:03,949 --> 00:22:08,410
Los Angeles or New York or wherever you are,
454
00:22:08,780 --> 00:22:11,040
your town can have mean streets.
455
00:22:11,050 --> 00:22:14,079
Save those for you have a whole novel.
456
00:22:14,089 --> 00:22:20,579
Now there's several 100 pages to bring in all those details.
457
00:22:20,589 --> 00:22:24,459
But the beginning is about getting your reader involved,
458
00:22:24,469 --> 00:22:30,099
getting them to care and getting them to ask questions or what's gonna happen next.
459
00:22:30,349 --> 00:22:31,819
How are they gonna deal with this?
460
00:22:31,829 --> 00:22:36,449
So when you write your subsequent books in the series,
461
00:22:36,459 --> 00:22:56,930
do you present a new situation or a new problem for your protagonist that is different than the one in the previous book or in the initial book that that is specific to the crime that's going to be solved in that subsequent kind of know the problems,
462
00:22:56,939 --> 00:23:02,310
those personal problems usually stem from who he is and his and his background.
463
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:11,839
But the situations are different and the the people are different and how those problems are used against him as it were.
464
00:23:11,849 --> 00:23:13,030
Are different because you,
465
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,310
because your character is going to grow from each book.
466
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:19,199
So the problems can't be identical.
467
00:23:19,209 --> 00:23:21,890
Like there has to be some change up in them,
468
00:23:21,910 --> 00:23:23,300
there has to be a change,
469
00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:24,479
there has to be a change,
470
00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:24,910
ok?
471
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:35,089
If you were going to give a couple of tips to let's say new writers or writers who struggle with the opening because as I mentioned earlier,
472
00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:35,500
you know,
473
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:39,020
my 30th book came out and it never gets any easier.
474
00:23:39,030 --> 00:23:39,310
You know,
475
00:23:39,319 --> 00:23:51,599
I've been working with my agent on a new proposal and we have reworked the opening a couple of times because trying to decide where we thought it should start to really,
476
00:23:51,609 --> 00:23:51,810
you know,
477
00:23:51,819 --> 00:23:55,670
grab the attention of the reader so it doesn't necessarily get easier.
478
00:23:55,890 --> 00:24:06,469
So what would a couple of tips be to help somebody kind of figure out how to present that problem for the Luthor,
479
00:24:06,479 --> 00:24:09,050
how to know where to start the story,
480
00:24:09,060 --> 00:24:09,290
you know,
481
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:18,030
where in that ordinary world and how long do you keep them in that ordinary world before there's a mystery to solve hop right in jump,
482
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,380
right in jump right into this story.
483
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:27,290
You've got the rest of the novel to tell the reader all the backstory,
484
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:28,459
all the other things,
485
00:24:28,469 --> 00:24:34,979
all the other skills your detective has just jump into the story uh is,
486
00:24:34,989 --> 00:24:35,859
is my,
487
00:24:35,869 --> 00:24:39,790
is my first tip is get going,
488
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,569
get into action.
489
00:24:41,579 --> 00:24:41,910
It's,
490
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,270
it's where I see the biggest problems at the beginning.
491
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,709
They love their character so much,
492
00:24:48,969 --> 00:24:49,310
you know,
493
00:24:49,319 --> 00:24:54,589
and they want to tell you everything about their super cool new character.
494
00:24:54,599 --> 00:24:55,030
You know,
495
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:55,849
first of all,
496
00:24:55,859 --> 00:25:04,449
it's telling and you really want to show your reader how your detective operate.
497
00:25:04,459 --> 00:25:07,709
Give them just some little tiny problem to solve.
498
00:25:07,719 --> 00:25:14,569
Some little can be the irritating neighbor or it can be winding up the last big case.
499
00:25:14,579 --> 00:25:18,189
It really doesn't matter but give them a problem to solve.
500
00:25:18,199 --> 00:25:22,410
Show your reader how they operate,
501
00:25:22,420 --> 00:25:24,569
show some of their traits.
502
00:25:24,869 --> 00:25:25,910
Are they sloppy?
503
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,000
Are they messy?
504
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:27,280
And,
505
00:25:27,290 --> 00:25:28,680
and think about traits though,
506
00:25:28,689 --> 00:25:32,579
that might impact how they investigate later on,
507
00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:33,410
right.
508
00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:42,680
The biggest thing you want to do is make that emotional connection with your reader and get them to care about your character and get them to go.
509
00:25:42,689 --> 00:25:43,680
Wow,
510
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,979
this gal,
511
00:25:44,989 --> 00:25:46,949
she's full of spunk.
512
00:25:46,959 --> 00:25:48,000
I wanna know,
513
00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:48,469
you know,
514
00:25:48,609 --> 00:25:51,140
mystery readers are devoted readers.
515
00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:52,239
So they have,
516
00:25:52,569 --> 00:25:54,810
they have their expectations and,
517
00:25:54,819 --> 00:25:59,420
and they know a big mystery is coming when they,
518
00:25:59,430 --> 00:26:00,680
when they pick up a,
519
00:26:00,689 --> 00:26:01,760
a mystery book,
520
00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:02,000
you know,
521
00:26:02,010 --> 00:26:09,140
so you don't have to tell them that what you want to do is get them to connect with your mystery solver,
522
00:26:09,150 --> 00:26:10,300
your detective,
523
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:11,439
your sleuth.
524
00:26:11,890 --> 00:26:15,829
And so you want is the person who carries the book,
525
00:26:15,839 --> 00:26:16,020
I mean,
526
00:26:16,030 --> 00:26:16,739
the puzzle,
527
00:26:16,750 --> 00:26:21,060
the mystery book two parts,
528
00:26:21,069 --> 00:26:21,219
right?
529
00:26:21,229 --> 00:26:26,959
You've got the puzzle and the mystery reader is committed and wants to solve that puzzle and,
530
00:26:26,969 --> 00:26:28,660
and is intrigued by that.
531
00:26:28,670 --> 00:26:28,979
Right.
532
00:26:28,989 --> 00:26:36,670
But also the character has to be likable enough and relatable enough to carry the entire book.
533
00:26:36,989 --> 00:26:40,459
And if we don't like that person or don't relate to that person,
534
00:26:40,469 --> 00:26:46,219
then we're not going to care about the book and we're gonna put it down no matter how good I think for cozy,
535
00:26:46,229 --> 00:26:51,150
they definitely need to be likable for mysteries or Crime.
536
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:53,630
They don't always have to be likable,
537
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,550
but they do need to be relatable.
538
00:26:56,650 --> 00:26:57,040
The difference.
539
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:57,449
Yes,
540
00:26:57,479 --> 00:27:03,500
I've stopped books and my husband has stopped books because there's no likable character.
541
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:03,880
You know,
542
00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:04,619
likable.
543
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:07,540
I think there's a spectrum of likability too.
544
00:27:07,550 --> 00:27:07,859
You know,
545
00:27:07,869 --> 00:27:12,060
it doesn't mean that they're necessarily just a peaches and cream,
546
00:27:12,069 --> 00:27:12,400
all,
547
00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:12,900
you know,
548
00:27:12,910 --> 00:27:13,900
smiles.
549
00:27:13,910 --> 00:27:15,760
What gets people too.
550
00:27:15,770 --> 00:27:16,030
I,
551
00:27:16,619 --> 00:27:17,380
I was,
552
00:27:17,390 --> 00:27:26,930
I guess this was about a year ago now and I was reading a well liked British author who write crime mysteries.
553
00:27:26,939 --> 00:27:30,439
I was waiting to see why everybody liked her.
554
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,069
I never got there.
555
00:27:32,489 --> 00:27:32,930
You know,
556
00:27:32,939 --> 00:27:36,530
she had the tall handsome detective and I'm like,
557
00:27:36,540 --> 00:27:36,689
well,
558
00:27:36,699 --> 00:27:37,630
how nice for him.
559
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:38,010
But,
560
00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:38,630
you know,
561
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,290
I'm waiting for this story.
562
00:27:45,979 --> 00:27:46,800
So,
563
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:47,160
yeah,
564
00:27:47,170 --> 00:27:48,810
I think it's really important that,
565
00:27:48,819 --> 00:27:52,380
that you want your reader to make that emotional connection.
566
00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:55,489
That's the first thing you want all,
567
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:56,030
all the,
568
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,609
what I call the telling,
569
00:27:57,619 --> 00:28:03,550
like any of their background or their bigger problems.
570
00:28:04,209 --> 00:28:08,540
You can save those for later if you don't have all the details in there.
571
00:28:08,550 --> 00:28:09,550
Your reader is gonna go.
572
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,020
Whoa.
573
00:28:10,030 --> 00:28:10,900
I wonder why they,
574
00:28:10,910 --> 00:28:11,380
mm.
575
00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:11,959
You know,
576
00:28:12,229 --> 00:28:14,439
and you get to tell them later on.
577
00:28:14,449 --> 00:28:14,869
Right.
578
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,719
You want to parse things out to make it interesting that.
579
00:28:17,729 --> 00:28:18,880
Exactly.
580
00:28:18,890 --> 00:28:20,920
So that's a nice teacher.
581
00:28:20,930 --> 00:28:21,300
Word.
582
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:23,239
Yeah.
583
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:34,699
Always the teacher I think also presenting a weakness is another way to do it because as we talked about a minute ago,
584
00:28:34,810 --> 00:28:35,880
nobody's perfect.
585
00:28:35,890 --> 00:28:41,880
We don't want those perfect characters but also a weakness that we see in a character,
586
00:28:41,890 --> 00:28:54,709
whether it's explicit or perceived by that character can automatically sets the sleuth up for some growth which will help them solve the case.
587
00:28:54,719 --> 00:28:55,630
Ultimately,
588
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:55,849
you know,
589
00:28:55,859 --> 00:29:02,880
they're not as if it's a first and series book that's not already a detective series or a book for example,
590
00:29:02,890 --> 00:29:06,560
but something that's amateur um or a suspense or something,
591
00:29:06,569 --> 00:29:09,660
you have somebody who's not a professional crime solver.
592
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:15,689
So they at one place and have to grow into that role.
593
00:29:15,699 --> 00:29:22,530
And so we can show that out of the gate with some sort of weakness in the situation that we present.
594
00:29:22,619 --> 00:29:22,819
Yeah,
595
00:29:22,829 --> 00:29:25,050
you don't want them to be goody two shoes,
596
00:29:25,420 --> 00:29:25,920
right?
597
00:29:25,949 --> 00:29:27,199
Or good at everything,
598
00:29:27,209 --> 00:29:27,589
you know.
599
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:28,000
Yeah.
600
00:29:28,180 --> 00:29:28,900
OK.
601
00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:32,079
Um Any other tips for our new writers,
602
00:29:32,089 --> 00:29:33,189
struggling writers,
603
00:29:33,199 --> 00:29:35,510
people who have challenges with the beginnings,
604
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,930
which is probably everybody,
605
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,770
just everybody just um keep writing,
606
00:29:41,540 --> 00:29:42,290
right.
607
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:43,890
Never stop.
608
00:29:44,219 --> 00:29:44,229
I,
609
00:29:44,239 --> 00:29:50,280
I would say also don't get so hung up on the beginning,
610
00:29:51,189 --> 00:29:57,680
just keep writing because you can always come back and figure out where to start it after you.
611
00:29:59,150 --> 00:29:59,660
And you know,
612
00:29:59,670 --> 00:30:02,359
it's like the that first sentence,
613
00:30:02,369 --> 00:30:03,040
you know,
614
00:30:03,050 --> 00:30:08,780
you can spend writing the whole rest of the novel figuring out the first sentence.
615
00:30:08,790 --> 00:30:09,500
So yes,
616
00:30:10,069 --> 00:30:21,459
so don't get stymied by that and stuck and not may be able to make forward progress because you are just so focused on that opening line or that opening scene,
617
00:30:21,469 --> 00:30:26,000
whatever it is because you can come back to that and you can change it,
618
00:30:26,010 --> 00:30:27,000
add to it,
619
00:30:27,010 --> 00:30:27,660
edit it,
620
00:30:27,670 --> 00:30:28,219
revise it,
621
00:30:28,229 --> 00:30:28,959
whatever,
622
00:30:28,969 --> 00:30:29,199
you know,
623
00:30:29,209 --> 00:30:30,699
just don't let that stop you.
624
00:30:31,030 --> 00:30:38,390
I would say that almost with every novel I come back and change or tweak or do something different with the opening,
625
00:30:38,719 --> 00:30:39,069
you know,
626
00:30:39,079 --> 00:30:39,250
this,
627
00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:39,569
how,
628
00:30:39,579 --> 00:30:42,189
how it ends up is not necessarily how I started it.
629
00:30:42,859 --> 00:30:48,849
I was listening to an author interview and he said he does 40 revisions.
630
00:30:49,459 --> 00:30:53,729
That's the average number of 40 that he does on a novel.
631
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:54,770
Wow.
632
00:30:55,859 --> 00:30:56,160
Yeah.
633
00:30:56,170 --> 00:30:58,459
Walter Walter Moseley.
634
00:30:58,469 --> 00:30:58,760
Yeah.
635
00:31:01,199 --> 00:31:02,130
Whoa.
636
00:31:02,140 --> 00:31:03,510
That's a lot.
637
00:31:04,260 --> 00:31:07,349
I would say I do have very many revisions.
638
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,479
A particular project needs.
639
00:31:10,489 --> 00:31:12,150
There isn't a set number.
640
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,510
They don't all need the same level of editing or revision.
641
00:31:16,079 --> 00:31:16,640
So,
642
00:31:16,650 --> 00:31:18,410
what is next for you,
643
00:31:18,449 --> 00:31:18,890
Sarah?
644
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:19,270
Well,
645
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:19,829
I'm writing,
646
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,699
I'm leaping out of history and into the present day and,
647
00:31:23,709 --> 00:31:23,729
um,
648
00:31:23,739 --> 00:31:26,630
writing a present day crime scene with,
649
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,209
um,
650
00:31:28,209 --> 00:31:32,579
a homicide detective in Sonoma County California.
651
00:31:32,589 --> 00:31:38,219
And this takes place out in the hills near the coast So it's way out.
652
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,020
Not wine country.
653
00:31:40,030 --> 00:31:41,819
It's the redwoods in a very,
654
00:31:41,829 --> 00:31:43,020
very small town.
655
00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:44,459
So I'm having fun with that.
656
00:31:44,469 --> 00:31:44,500
I,
657
00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:46,579
I have to do a lot of research.
658
00:31:46,589 --> 00:31:54,430
I had learned a lot about how a law enforcement opera officer thinks.
659
00:31:54,619 --> 00:32:01,410
What actually motivates them with lots of help from detective B,
660
00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:02,589
Adam Richardson.
661
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:02,780
So,
662
00:32:02,790 --> 00:32:04,119
this is a detective story.
663
00:32:04,130 --> 00:32:05,829
Not an amateur sleuth story.
664
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:06,229
Yeah,
665
00:32:06,239 --> 00:32:08,069
it's a detective story.
666
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:08,150
Uh,
667
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,109
she's a,
668
00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:09,520
yes,
669
00:32:09,530 --> 00:32:11,250
she's a homicide detective.
670
00:32:11,260 --> 00:32:11,810
So,
671
00:32:12,510 --> 00:32:12,719
yeah,
672
00:32:12,729 --> 00:32:15,979
she's at a completely different level.
673
00:32:15,989 --> 00:32:17,619
Lots about law enforcement,
674
00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:23,060
but there's also lots about spies and then the CIA comes in later.
675
00:32:23,069 --> 00:32:24,530
So there's a lot.
676
00:32:24,540 --> 00:32:27,369
When is that one projected to be finished or to be wrong?
677
00:32:27,380 --> 00:32:28,959
I have no idea.
678
00:32:29,199 --> 00:32:30,160
I have no idea.
679
00:32:30,170 --> 00:32:33,060
I was stuck on the story for quite some time.
680
00:32:33,069 --> 00:32:34,430
So that happens too.
681
00:32:34,439 --> 00:32:36,859
And then just a couple of weeks ago,
682
00:32:36,869 --> 00:32:41,270
everything this new element fell into place and I was like,
683
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:41,510
yes,
684
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:41,709
yes,
685
00:32:41,719 --> 00:32:41,910
yes,
686
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:42,130
yes,
687
00:32:42,140 --> 00:32:42,339
yes.
688
00:32:42,349 --> 00:32:42,709
Yes.
689
00:32:42,910 --> 00:32:46,819
So I'm all jazz and I'm writing all this whole series,
690
00:32:46,829 --> 00:32:52,660
this whole new series that goes inside story and I'm very excited about that.
691
00:32:52,670 --> 00:32:52,900
You know,
692
00:32:52,910 --> 00:32:54,260
another thing I,
693
00:32:54,270 --> 00:32:59,219
I would say that has nothing to do with the beginnings of writing a story.
694
00:32:59,229 --> 00:33:03,410
But a writing group helps if you find the right writing group.
695
00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:05,219
And I'm not gonna go into that today.
696
00:33:05,229 --> 00:33:10,219
But I also even um a writing buddy,
697
00:33:10,229 --> 00:33:10,959
I have an,
698
00:33:10,969 --> 00:33:20,380
an author buddy and we meet once a week for about 40 minutes and talk about what we did the week before.
699
00:33:20,969 --> 00:33:23,680
Announce our goals for the coming,
700
00:33:23,689 --> 00:33:27,800
we talk about any issues that may have come up that kept,
701
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,420
kept us from reaching our goals.
702
00:33:31,030 --> 00:33:35,109
And it's very short and we write in different genres.
703
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:44,319
It's just that it's someone who understands what you're going through because if you talk to your neighbor with the chameleon tree,
704
00:33:44,619 --> 00:33:49,130
they are not gonna understand why something is so frustrating.
705
00:33:49,530 --> 00:33:50,000
Yeah,
706
00:33:50,010 --> 00:33:51,030
that's so true.
707
00:33:51,270 --> 00:33:51,619
Yeah.
708
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:53,859
And also I think it's,
709
00:33:53,869 --> 00:33:54,160
it's,
710
00:33:54,170 --> 00:34:00,959
it's uh being accountable also and it's having clear intentions with what you're trying to accomplish,
711
00:34:01,469 --> 00:34:01,739
you know,
712
00:34:01,750 --> 00:34:03,790
versus um just writing.
713
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,449
It's like,
714
00:34:04,459 --> 00:34:04,699
you know,
715
00:34:04,709 --> 00:34:06,329
Weight Watchers is check the,
716
00:34:06,339 --> 00:34:11,250
the fact that you're checking in with somebody holds you accountable to a different degree.
717
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:11,750
Well,
718
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:12,800
this has been great,
719
00:34:12,810 --> 00:34:13,010
Sarah.
720
00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:16,110
Thank you so much again for joining me on writer Spark.
721
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,010
I really appreciate it and best of luck.
722
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:21,320
All right.
723
00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:22,330
Thank you so much,
724
00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:25,570
Melissa and for all of you writers out there,
725
00:34:25,580 --> 00:34:26,629
keep writing.
726
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:28,459
That's exactly right.
727
00:34:28,469 --> 00:34:30,429
Keep writing and don't worry about the beginning,
728
00:34:30,439 --> 00:34:31,500
come back to it,
729
00:34:31,850 --> 00:34:35,239
but jump into some middle of the action,
730
00:34:35,739 --> 00:34:39,709
whatever that looks like next time we'll be talking about revision.
731
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,459
So stay tuned and I will see you then.
732
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:46,790
Thank you so much for listening and spending your time with me today.
733
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,479
Everyone.
734
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,709
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the Writer Spark podcast.
735
00:34:52,330 --> 00:34:59,090
Take a moment to visit our website at www dot riders spark academy dot com.
736
00:34:59,219 --> 00:35:00,800
Check out our courses,
737
00:35:00,810 --> 00:35:03,489
our resources and all the content there.
738
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,810
And I will see you next time until then.
739
00:35:06,820 --> 00:35:07,780
Happy Writing.