Brand with Backbone: Why Emotional Connection Drives Loyalty

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
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all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor
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Elise Cortez.
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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has
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been brought to you with passion and pride since February
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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great
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to have you. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes. Most
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leaders are sitting on untapped human energy, and I help
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them unlock it. I'm an organizational psychologist, logotherapist, workforce advisor
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and the founder of the Gusto Now movement. But the
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title I live by is much simpler. I traffic and energy,
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not the surface level kind of motivation or another engagement initiative,
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but the deeper force what I call Gusto, the life
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force for performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and genuine ownership
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of a shared mission in the clients we serve. You
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can learn more abo us and how we can work
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together at Gusto dashnow dot com, or visit my personal
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site a Leascortes dot com for information on my speaking
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and my books with us Today is Warren Kornblum, the
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former global chief marketing officer of Toys r US as
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well as other leading international brands, and the author of
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Notes from the randstand thoughts on emotional branding from someone
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who has fought for customer attention and one He now
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advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and
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emotional connection, as well as on what he calls share
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of Heart. We'll be talking about several of the ideas
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he puts forth in this book on creating an emotional
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brand that unites you with your customer. He joined us
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today from Palm Beach, Florida, where it is storming. Warren,
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welcome to working on purpose.
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Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. And hopefully
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mother and nature will cooperate.
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Yeah. I wanted to say that just in case you
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go off for a bit. So here is this beautiful
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book you put into the world. I always like to
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celebrate this, Warren, because especially you, being a man, I
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like to say that what you did in putting forth
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this book is actually harder than it is to bring
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a new life into the world that I've done both,
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so I can tell you it's true. Congratulations. So let's
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open if we can, Since our listeners and viewers aren't
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disacquainted with you as I am, if you would just
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sketch your background briefly and how it was that you
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chose to work in branding. Why this? Why not accounting?
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For gosh sakes, well, probably my math wasn't good enough
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for the accounting side. But no. I was born in
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Toronto and I'm Canadian. Been in the United States now
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for about thirty years, and to be honest, I think
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that it was a calling for me. I just have
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always been fascinated by business, by brands, by people's reaction
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to them. I started out in the advertising business, spent
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the first part of my career running my own aid. Well,
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I didn't started my own agency, but started in advertising
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as a copywriter actually, then went to business school and
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then went into the advertising world. At some point in
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the late nineties, my agency was bought and I was
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moved to New York as part of that. In an earnout,
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as often happens to people when they sell their company,
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have to go to work for the acquirers. And as
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an entrepreneurial advertising agency person who was very much into
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the nitty gritty of working with clients and things like that,
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I was not as comfortable sitting in a corner office,
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being more of an executive. I wanted to get into
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the trenches and work with clients, work with the creative teams.
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When the three years was up, quickly I decided that
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it wasn't for me to be in that environment and
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I was recruited, as you mentioned in my introduction, to
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be the first global Chief marketing Officer of Toys r US,
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which in those days was dealing with the Amazon coming
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on strong, Walmart getting into the toy category, Internet really
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coming on strong, and they decided that they needed someone
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else to take a look at their marketing strategy. So
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I did that and I was there until when it
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was a public company, until it sold to private equity
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in two thousand and six, and since then I've been
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advising clients, but brands have just always been something that
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fascinated me that I think I was good at and
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I think most of all, I enjoy the relationships, both
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with clients as well as with customers. So that's how
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I got there.
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Well, as we were talking before we got on air,
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I have fond memories of Toys r US of course, shopping,
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you know, mostly for my daughter to get toys, and
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I think, you know, back to your concept or the
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emotional connection. I think part of the reason I loved
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Toys r US and maybe others do as well, is
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when you walk into the store, it was like okay
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to be a kid again yourself.
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Sadly, yeah, you know, I think that the biggest thing
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I still get it. I left in two thousand and six,
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so it's been twenty years, and people still automatically when
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they know of my background and my time there, want
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to talk about those days, want to talk about their
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memories of Toys r Us and frankly in terms of
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emotional connection. When I'm talking to them, and I'm sure
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this is what you go through too, you almost think
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about it in human terms. It's almost like it was
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a friend and it was about the magic of being
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a child. And you know, one of the first things
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I did when I got there, because I was a
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Toys r Us kid too, and one of the first
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things I did when I got there is I said,
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you know, we have to give people an ability to
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kind of celebrate emotionally the brand that they love. There
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were flaws, the stores were not perfect, there were lots
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of issues. Our internet wasn't that great. But at the
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end of the day, what we did, and how long
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the company had been doing it was where the magic was.
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And you know, one of the first things I did
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was two simple things. They weren't rocket science, they just
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made perfect sense to me. One is, for whatever reason
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they had stopped using which you will remember the famous
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song that people mostly can still sing today. I don't
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want to grow up. I'm a Toys r Us kid. Yeah,
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I do generational thing, but for whatever reason, they had
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stopped using it for a while, so we brought that back.
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And then the other thing was Jeffrey the Giraffe, who
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was from the day Charles Lazarus founded the company, you know,
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probably over almost one hundred years ago. Now it was
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a two dimensional giraffe. But I said, you know, Jeffries
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kind of like grandparents had grown up on him, were
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the first generation, parents were the next generation, and the
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kids today. So we brought them back in a contemporary way.
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But I thought it was really important that those links
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to the heart of Toys r Us, which I think,
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in truth was almost better than the reality of it.
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But that was what the connection was with people, and
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I think it's endured time. So yeah, they were great years.
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I really enjoy those, but it is it is surprising
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to me how often people, I mean, my advertising career,
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my consulting career, my speaking career, everybody inevitably the first
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question is Toys r Us And I love that, you know,
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it's a big part of my life too.
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Such a wonderful thing to get to experience. So the
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reas One of the reasons I'm an organizational psychologist and
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not say a clinical psychologist, is because I believe in
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the wonder and the power and the dignity and the
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nobility of work to be an important part of our lives,
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and I wanted to. I want it to be better
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for people. For a lot of people it isn't, and
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I'm out that's part of our mission is to help
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make this a better experience for them. So before we
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go on or I think it would be important for
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our listeners and viewers and be of service to them
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if you gave us your idea of what is a brand?
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What do we mean by brand?
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Well, I think that you know, stores have names or brands.
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You know, soaps have names, and cars have names. But
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at the end of the day, a brand, I think
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elevates beyond just name and service and commodity. It becomes
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kind of the it's almost overused, but it becomes kind
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of the DNA or the personality of the business. It's
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when you get it right. The brand is everything that
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the experience, the actual transactional side of the business, the
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hiring of the business. I mean, I always say to
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everybody that I talk to, the brand isn't owned by
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the CEO or the shareholders of the founders it is.
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But the best brands are owned by everybody top to
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bottom and bottom to top in an organization, and most importantly,
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when you get it right, their own either people who
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shop or do or do business with that company. It's
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almost like human personality and business brand are analogous in
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many ways. In my mind, it's kind of what that
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entity stands for. Obviously, some businesses don't have brands because
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all they are is they you know, they are commodity
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providers and transaction based. But when you really start to
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build internal loyalty culture, which I know is true to
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you know, near and dear to your heart, that's what
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a brand is. A brand is everything that kind of
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surrounds the essence of a business. Wonderful.
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Okay, So let's compare in contrastor you do this beautifully
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in the twenty seven I think it is chapters of
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your book. But I really appreciate that you compare contrast.
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And so if we talk about some of the brands
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that have gone away, so you know, Kodak, sharper Image,
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Radio Shack, Blockbuster, many others are examples that they were
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one stominant companies that failed, you say, because their brands,
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the brand stands, didn't adapt to changing times, because they
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lost touch with their audiences. If you could say a
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little bit more about that, and then I want to
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contrast the ones that have kind of stuck around.
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Sure, I think that two things happen. One is is
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that I think brands get in their own way, which
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is part of some of those examples you used, and
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I think also circumstances in the market change and they
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don't know how to get out of that way. Yes,
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in the case for example of Kodak, which is probably
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a classic one, a lot of people don't realize that
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Kodak was the first adopter of digital technology and the
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higher ups in the organization somewhere decided, well, we can't
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do that because if we do that, we're not going
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to sell film. Well, that decision may meant that you
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weren't only not going to sell film, you were probably
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positioning yourself almost right out of business. Because people, the consumer,
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who are the customer, in my mind, is the most
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important thing in any equation of business and customers were evolving,
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and customers were looking to you know, digital cameras in
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those days, and then quickly that transitions, that transition through
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Steve Jobs in the main terms of the phone and
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Kodak just failed to move with the times. They didn't
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feel failed to recognize it because they invented or were
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on the cosual camera. They just decided that they were.
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You know, it's almost like the too big to fail.
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Their business was not going to be challenged by technology. Well,
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you know, twenty years later more than that now, as
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you go through those conversations, technology is going to change businesses.
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It's changing them every day and continue to. I think
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in terms of sharper Image, it's probably the second image second,
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the second example that I gave where they just lost relevance.
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They were the place that used to go for new
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innovation and there weren't the other options that you could
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do as fast and as easily through online through search
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on your phones. And I think sharper Image just didn't
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move with the times and didn't realize that their customer
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wanted a different way to shop. It wasn't so much
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that they didn't have unique products. I think they did,
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it was a matter that they weren't doing it in
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a way that the consumer in those days wanted, and
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other options appeared, and they didn't keep their edge on
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the innovation cycle.
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Interesting that they didn't keep their sharper image veract. And
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we'll talk about this later, but that really speaks to
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this kind. They need to constantly listen to your to
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your customers and hear and understand them their needs, where
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they're going, et cetera, which you're describing as is really
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lacking there.
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As you know, I mean, thank you for having spent
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some time with the book, but that's one of the
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things that I almost felt when I was reading writing it,
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that almost felt I said too many times, but I
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don't think I can say them enough times, which is
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listening is the most important side of communicating it truly is.
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And if you know one on one one thing. But
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even when you're talking to millions, you need to understand
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what they're saying and listen to them because it's about them.
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It's you have no God given right to do business
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right right right right.
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Well, so here we are. We've started off by talking
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about some of these these well known brands that failed.
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I want to be able to situate because this gets
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to your world those that they might be small but
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resourceful teams with even fewer resources, but somehow they manage
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to achieve extraordinary success because they understand one thing. As
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you say, brands live and die in the human heart.
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Yes, yeah, I one hundred percent agree with that. It's
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when you talk about people who are loyal to a brand.
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Back to the Toys r Us story, I mean, it's
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almost like they're talking about a friend. It's almost like
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they've lost when they go away. It's like they've lost
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somebody when they disappoint you, which because its almost as
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if a friend disappointed you. And why is that. It's
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because they're not living on you know, on their Visa
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MasterCard or Amex card. They're living with the brand and
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in their heart, and they have expectations of the brand,
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which is why they have loyalty to it.
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M So, you know, I think it was for me,
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as I said to you Warrent, that this your book
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really helped reinforce some of the work that we do
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in culture transformation and culture development around purpose, especially and
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I wanted to situate. You said, over time, there are
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three things became very evident for you in your career.
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You say, one, marketing is about selling, while branding concentrates
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on building connections. I think that was really powerful. Two,
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the best brands prioritize building trust instead of just grabbing attention.
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Also powerful. And then finally, ultimately, you say, you can't
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build a lasting brand unless it resonates with people and
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evolves with them. I thought that was so critical in
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the Codac thing are not Codeca sharp brimage thing was
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just a perfect example of that.
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Yeah, and I think all three are true, and if
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there's a through line to them, it really is it's
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about the customer. It's not about us, right, I mean
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as the brand people or the people running businesses. Obviously
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it's you know, we're an important part of it. But
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if you lose touch with, or lose sight of, or
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stop fulfilling the expectations and aspirations of your customer, you're
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you know, there's a train at the end, there's a
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light at the end of the tunnel, en it probably
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is a train. So yeah, I mean the good news.
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I think as I tend to humanize a lot of this,
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and whenever I think about a customer, I always almost
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put it into human terms. Realizing of course they're not
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one person, but there is there's like modeling that goes on,
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and understanding why they want to be loyal to you,
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why they want to you know, what they want from
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your category, I think is key to providing it. And
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then it's not about lip servers. You can't just say
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it and then it is I think that you have
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to live it. You have to make sure the entire
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organization and every touch point that people have with you
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is consist is clear, and that they all value the
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customer because if you don't, they have lots of options
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and lots of alternatives, and they're not going to be
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loyal to you and you're not going to touch their
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heart right right.
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Well, on that note, let's grab our first break and
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let our listeners and viewers reflect on some of the
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things we've talked about so far. I'm your host, doctor
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Earles Cortes. We've been on the air with Warren Kornblum.
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He's the former global Chief Marketing Officer of Toys r
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US as well as other leading international brands. He now
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advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and
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emotional connections, as well as on what he calls share
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of heart, which is what we've been largely talking about
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here in the beginning. Here, we've been talking about just
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the foundations of what makes for branding, why is it important,
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and how do we know it's working. After the break,
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we're going to start getting into that a brand needs
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a stand and that comes from the idea of conviction,
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and we'll showcase Nike's just do it to start that process.
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We'll be right back.
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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning
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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies
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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite
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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her
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at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
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your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose
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with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
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to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
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Elise Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working
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on purpose.
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Thanks for saying with us and welcome back to Working
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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I
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am dedicated to help them create a world where organizations
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thrive because they're people thrive, and we're led by inspirational
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leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness, and
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we do business that better is the world. I keep
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researching and writing my own books, so one of my
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latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating
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meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business And in
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order to help leaders understand today's very discerning workforce, what
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do they want to need from you to give their
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best and want to stick around? And then I provide
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you twenty two best practices to equip you to provide
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that for them through your leadership and your culture. You
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can find my books on Amazon or my personal site
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at last Quortes dot com if you are just now
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joining us. My guest is Warren Cornblum. He's the author
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of Notes from the Brandstand Thoughts on emotional branding from
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someone who has fought for customer attention and won. So
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it's really kind of hard not to have a conversation
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about really great branding and not talk about Nike. But
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and I have gotten the chance to do some work
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with Nike, which is it's an amazing organization. Talk about
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a brand that just really really lives. I mean, it
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really is exceptional, performance oriented, but also celebrates everyone's an
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athlete kind of thing. But in one of your chapters
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you talk about how every brand needs a stand and
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how that comes from conviction.
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Yes, I think, and I think Nike is a good example.
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There are thankfully lots of them, but Nike certainly is
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one that people pretty much everybody is aware of and
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has been touched by and has had them on their
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feet or on their bodies. And I think it goes
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back to the days when Phil Knight and his team
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early on realized that to go from just being a
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shoe provider to athletes, that what they really needed to
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do is find a way to get the everyday person,
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be they recreational, be they walkers, be they joggers, or
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be they athletes, to embrace Nike as a way of
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life and a part of their lives in addition to
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just being a shoe provider. You know, when you think
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about it, some of the things that they did could
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easily have pigeonholed them into They're only good for me
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if I'm really good at that sport, if I'm you know, off,
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if I could jump like Michael Jordan, or I can
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you know, on and on and on, and the brilliance
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of that famous campaign Just do It was saying to
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people you can do it too. I mean, it's about
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a lifestyle. It's about being inclusive. It's about sharing in
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the in what we do and how we do it
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and how we live. And you know, I think I
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often say that the three cornerstones everybody always talks about
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which are true about well being are obviously fitness, diet,
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and sleep. And I actually was in two of those
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businesses because sleep as well. But when you think about
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it in the context of Nike and fitness and wellness,
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they were saying to everyday people, we can get you there,
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and it's not about buying the shoe. It's about embracing
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the lifestyle and our brand and everything we stand for
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can help you get there because it's about you, the consumer,
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not so much about us sitting in a boardroom and
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trying to convince you to do something you're not comfortable with.
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I really appreciate that to me, that's you know, it
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speaks to the idea of aspiration you mentioned before, what
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are your customers aspiring for? Why I'm starting to be
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an athlete too? Right? And I appreciate in that same
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chapter you also talk about, you know, Sephora, you also
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talk about with Death, which I didn't really know what
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that was all about. I see there are vans all
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over the place. But what you also said that was
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so interesting is you said these brands aren't just selling products,
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they're selling belief systems.
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Which I think is absolutely true. I mean, you know,
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if Nike was all about shoes, or energy drinks were
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all just about drinking a drink and whatever happens, or
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Sephora was just about you know, being a supermodel, well
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that's exclusive. That's not inclusive. And where these brands I
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think have been successful is they found a way to
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do a giant hug to a huge consumer group that
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says you belong here. You know. Sephora did it by
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not being polarizing to a stereotype of women who could
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shop in their stores. They were about everybody. They were
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about different looks, different races, different you know. Afford well,
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affordability was always kind of a platform for them, and
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I think the same thing with Nike. I mean Nike
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it is it's a group hug for everybody in the
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world who wants to have comfort and get out there
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and do things. And also yeah, also you know, be
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kind of stylish about it too. I mean if they
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were ugly, I don't know that it would work. Although
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you probably know, one of the things or one of
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the companies I talk about a little bit in the
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book that's probably for a later conversation is crocs. I
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mean those things were ugly when they fascinate. Yeah, they
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found a way to go from ugly to cool. Yea,
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why because they gave their consumers. It's probably a very
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simplistic way to put it, but you know, that big
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hug to your consumer and to your organization that's bringing
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you to the consumers really important.
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I really like how you say that, you know that
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extending that big hug, and don't we all need a
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hug for cost sakes, you know? Okay, So we would
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be remiss, completely worried if we didn't talk about the
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chapter you have, which is entitled Purpose is Essential, and
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it's the idea of purpose drives relevance and I really
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aligned with this because it's very much the work that
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we do around culture and leadership is you say that
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purpose is a system, not a statement, and so you say,
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you know, a true brand purpose isn't something you invent
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in a workshop. It's not a headline, a presentation, or
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a marketing asset. It's the core focus of your business.
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The reason why decisions are made, the way to are
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is how you hire, how you prioritize, what fuels innovation,
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shapes culture, and it enhances customer experience. It's embedded, not announced.
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That's the very work that we do too. Again, I
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saw so many of those strong parallels between branding purpose
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and culture purpose that we work with.
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Well, and I think I'm glad to hear that because
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I think it's essential and I think business leaders, brand
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people and anybody who's just fascinated by brands need to
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understand that that's a huge difference, that it's not just
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about what you say, particularly in the world we live
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in today. I mean, anybody can go out and buy awareness.
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Things used to cost hundreds of thousands or millions of
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dollars in terms of marketing budgets, so you could get
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messages out there it's not like that anymore. Everybody has
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instant access to information, instant access to both good news
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and bad news from a business perspective as well as
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just life in general. And I think that organizations who
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just say, well, you know, wouldn't it be cool if
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we took a stand on this and we're just going
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to tell people about it, Well, today's consumers are so
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it's so easy to check things out. It's so easy
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to do that litmus test of is this truth or
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is this marketing, which is where the marketing selling versus
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brand being the essence of a business. I think when
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you talk about purpose, it's that you can to say, oh,
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we're charitable and we're going to write a check for
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one hundred thousand dollars to some company who cares. I
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think the consumer sets through that when you are a
480
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.799
company that lives it, eats it, breathes it, top to
481
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.319
bottom and bottom the top. Everybody in the organization is
482
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.000
that way, and your customers embrace it and share the
483
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:48.359
purpose of the business, then I think you transcend it
484
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:51.400
just being a commodity. You know. Again, I think that
485
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.440
far too much lip service is given to purpose and
486
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:01.440
not anywhere near enough just commitment and action one.
487
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:04.480
Hundred percent, Yeah, one hundred percent. And in our work,
488
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.680
you know, WAREN, we really help organizations to help the
489
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:10.839
help the whole team get aligned via their head or
490
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.519
understanding of the purpose their heart. How does how is
491
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.279
it connected to their own sense of purpose in life
492
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.680
and their values? How does it extend that? And then
493
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.039
their hands? What do they actually do? How do they
494
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.599
make the decisions? You know how you talk about you know,
495
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.400
four seasons empowering the team to be able to make decisions,
496
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:28.920
you know, on the spot, to be able to take
497
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:30.720
care of customers because they know what the purpose of
498
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.400
the organization is and they're empowered to do that. And
499
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.599
that's how we do that. So that because I the
500
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.279
thing that I really get disgusted with is, as you say,
501
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:41.599
purpose has become just you know, it's all over the place,
502
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.759
but yet it means nothing. So when you hear things
503
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.519
like pancakes on purpose or tires on purpose, you just
504
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:47.720
want to throw up.
505
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.160
You know, well, I think, I just I think your
506
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.880
work is so important in that because you can see
507
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:55.759
it when I go into a company as an advisor,
508
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.759
and I tend to be you know, in the as
509
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:01.480
much as I'd like to permeate the entire organization. I'm
510
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.079
one person, so sometimes it's hard to but when you're
511
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:06.119
in like the C suite and you're talking to people,
512
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:10.279
you could just see that when people really have a
513
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:13.279
strong sense of purpose, both as individuals as well as
514
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.759
in business, it's just you're kind of walking on air.
515
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.519
You're just happy to go into work. You understand what
516
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.920
your purpose is and how the organization has relevance to
517
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.039
the people that they're trying to talk to. And if
518
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:28.839
that's not embraced, which is where I think your work
519
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.039
probably comes in in spades. If it's not embraced, then
520
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.880
it just is so see through that it's ridiculous and
521
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.160
it doesn't work. It almost is a detriment if you
522
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.559
talk about being an organization with purpose and you don't
523
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:41.119
live it.
524
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:43.440
Oh no, it's a terrible detriment. I've had many, many
525
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.039
conversations with people who are a part of those organizations.
526
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:49.400
It's actually, you know, something that's going to shorten your
527
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.160
life on some level. It's that detrimental. But that's the
528
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:55.319
energy piece that we're talking about. When we can connect that,
529
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.079
now we've lifted the energy, which allows you to do.
530
00:27:58.039 --> 00:27:59.680
So much more exactly.
531
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:02.000
That's what's why we're seeing we traffic and energy. But
532
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:05.240
so we have we talked about purpose. Now, of course
533
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.359
I can't let you go without talking about meaning, because
534
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.880
those are our two you know pillars, really purpose and meaning.
535
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.359
And so you go on to say that you say
536
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:16.400
build meaning, not just attention meaning Foster's loyalty. So let's
537
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:17.519
talk about what you mean by that.
538
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.799
Well, I think that you know, as I said earlier,
539
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:24.839
anybody can sort of grab attention, but I think grabbing
540
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:32.839
meaning a connection, a piece of someone's uh part, I
541
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:38.000
guess yes, as opposed to just their wallets is so important.
542
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.279
And you do that by having relevance to people, by
543
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:46.799
having meaning to people, by standing for something, by transcending
544
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.759
just the purchase, by you know, doing what you say
545
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.039
and saying what you do, but doing but not saying
546
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.279
what you do and then not doing it right. And
547
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:59.519
I think that nobody has a kind of God given
548
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:02.319
right to exist. There are so many options out there
549
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:08.000
that consumers of all different categories can sense when a
550
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.480
company has meaning, And very importantly, I don't think a
551
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.039
brand or a company can have meaning unless it's also
552
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.160
something that's embraced internally. One of the quick exercises I
553
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:21.160
always do that is as intellectual as you are and
554
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.559
learn it. You may think it's silly, but I always
555
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.799
walk in and one of the first things I do, inevitably,
556
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:28.400
in every waiting room I've ever gone into, there's the
557
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.920
mission statement somewhere. Sometimes it's hidden, sometimes it's not, so
558
00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:33.119
I'll look at it and I'll read it, and then
559
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:35.519
I start talking to people in the organization about it,
560
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:39.240
you know, and you can see. I mean, you get
561
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.519
one of three basic reactions. One is you get a
562
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.640
blank stare, which is scary. Two is you get, which
563
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.359
I think is almost equally scary, You get the exact
564
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.480
reciting of what those points are on the statement with
565
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:55.319
no personal input. Three you get that wonderful occasion where
566
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:58.279
people are energized and sort of say it in their
567
00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:59.880
own words, but they know what the meaning of the
568
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:02.279
businesses and they know what the purpose of the business is.
569
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.319
Those are the that's where you have to get to.
570
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.880
In my mind, I completely we do something very similar. Warren, Yes, absolutely,
571
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.200
and it's it's always fascinating to us. Okay, so I
572
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:15.759
really love to this, especially here we are on the
573
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.880
age of AI and automation everywhere you have a chapter about,
574
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.319
you know, human brands when connection is the advantage, and
575
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:24.400
this is where you're really talking about how you know,
576
00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:26.799
technology is great for being able to solve those routine
577
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.960
problems and automate wait times and you know, but technology
578
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.839
can't feel. And so when the stakes are high emotionally,
579
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.759
when a customer is frustrated, anxious, or hurt, what the
580
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:39.640
need most isn't efficiency, it's connection. And that's when you
581
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:41.799
want the human to be involved. And that's definitely part
582
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:44.359
of what we're doing too, is doubling down on humanity
583
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:46.640
in the age of technology. So I thought that that
584
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:49.119
was an important distinction, especially when building a brand, that
585
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:54.039
you're inserting the human piece here, especially when it's really important.
586
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:57.400
And I think it's at both ends of the of
587
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.480
the spectrum, right. I think it's it's first, everybody is racing.
588
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:05.680
Everybody is i know, racing to get you know, AI
589
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:07.880
and the budgets and this and that and who's there
590
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:09.799
going to replace and what's it going to do. But
591
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:15.759
if there's not some human component to what is AI
592
00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:19.960
enabling us for, what are we trying to get out
593
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:24.240
of it? And where does it impact the people we're
594
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.440
trying to speak with. Then I think you lose something.
595
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:30.599
So I think it's two sides. One is is to me,
596
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.759
AI is is a huge enabler. I mean, I remember
597
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.839
when I was running brands, if I wanted to get
598
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.279
a kind of a sense of work, our customers were
599
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.039
So what did you do? You hired a research company.
600
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:45.400
You can do focus groups, then usage, an attitude surveys, whatever,
601
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:47.599
and then you waited three months for the results to
602
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.839
come back. You don't have to wait three minutes anymore.
603
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.720
You can. You know, you have real time information that's
604
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:57.839
hugely enabling in the right hands. On the other side,
605
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.519
I'd say two things quickly. One is that to your point,
606
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.400
machines don't have a heart, at least not now, and
607
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:09.839
hopefully I will not in my lifetime. But so you know,
608
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.079
people rebel when they feel like they're talking to a
609
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.880
machine or yeah, or even when they're talking to a
610
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.480
programmatic you know, call center somewhere who's obviously reading from
611
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:23.640
a stript and wants to get you off the phone
612
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.519
as fast as they can. I mean, that's not AI,
613
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.759
but it's kind of the same thing. It's a lack
614
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:32.119
of focus and concern for what people are feeling and
615
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:36.960
thinking and just experiencing with your brand. So I think,
616
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.079
to me, AI is a phenomenal enabler. But at the
617
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:45.200
end of the day, the brands that really succeed are
618
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.599
and will continue to be the ones who have humans
619
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:53.279
enabling the machines as opposed to the other way around.
620
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.400
I think that it's so critically important that we don't
621
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:59.960
lose touch with the fact that machines aren't talking in machines,
622
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:01.000
they're talking to people.
623
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:01.880
Yeah.
624
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:03.920
Well, so two things on that one. That's the big,
625
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:06.079
big reason why we while we launched the Gusto Now
626
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.599
movement because that really is about doubling down in humanity
627
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:14.880
and the agent of AI and using technology to extend people,
628
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:18.400
not replace them. That's the whole idea of the movement.
629
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:20.960
I completely agree with you, and you know, from a
630
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:26.640
from a brand perspective. Also is if everybody continues down
631
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.440
this race, which you need to do because you need
632
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.240
to have the business tools, so you need the technology.
633
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:35.279
But if everybody, if all the focus is on technology,
634
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.559
then everybody's also going to be the same. Right, that's
635
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:40.799
going to be the same. It's that human element, right,
636
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.720
that separates Yeah, that was.
637
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:44.200
The second piece I want to bring. That's that that's
638
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:46.359
what makes you, that's that's what distinguishes you. And you
639
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:48.720
also said too that you know when when you are
640
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.400
just given technology to do with, you know, when things
641
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.559
go wrong with with the with the product or service delivery,
642
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.839
that what happens is the customer feels abandoned. And if
643
00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:59.759
that isn't a strong word for you, I don't know
644
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:01.680
what is going to get your attention on that. Your
645
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:05.200
customer feels abandoned. Wow, what do we do when we
646
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:07.720
feel abandoned? Boy? You know there's a lot of energy
647
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:10.320
that goes into that, and you're looking fast for somebody
648
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:10.960
to replace that.
649
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.599
Well, you know, and then percent and you're you know,
650
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.639
in psychology and I'm not a psychologist, but you know,
651
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.199
one of the things that you learn quickly is that
652
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.679
when someone likes you and has that share of heart
653
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.639
with you, in that affinity, Yeah, if you ask, they'll
654
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:28.760
probably say I really like that. You know you should
655
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.320
try company EX or brand X, or meet so and
656
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:35.079
so because they're nice people, they're cool, they matter, they're
657
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.039
important to have meeting all the things we've talked about.
658
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.920
But when you get turned off you may not, you know,
659
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.960
yell and scream about them when you love them, But
660
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:46.920
boy do you yell and scream about them when you
661
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.239
don't when they disappoint it?
662
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:54.199
So right, yeah, big loud voice, there are too many people. Yes, indeed, Okay,
663
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.639
let's grab our last break. I'm your host, doctor at
664
00:34:56.679 --> 00:34:59.320
least quotes. We're on the air with Warren Kornblum. He's
665
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.880
the former Globe Chief Marketing Officer of Toys r US
666
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:05.039
as well as many other leading international brands. He now
667
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:07.559
advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and
668
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.840
emotional connections, as well as on what he calls share
669
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:13.519
of heart. We've been talking a good bit about various
670
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.599
ways that we can really develop brands in a way
671
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.400
that creates that emotional stickiness. We're talking about that share
672
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.480
of heart. After the break, we're going to talk a
673
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.360
little bit more about really how brands have lost their
674
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.679
stance that we can learn something from those mistakes. We'll
675
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:27.239
be right back.
676
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:45.719
Doctor Elise Court says as a management consultant specializing in
677
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.480
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps
678
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:52.920
companies visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop
679
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.760
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
680
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.800
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to
681
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.920
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her
682
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:07.239
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
683
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:16.079
your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose
684
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.440
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
685
00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.239
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
686
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:27.719
a lease A LISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now back
687
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.079
to working on Purpose.
688
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:36.320
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working
689
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.239
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Eleise Cortes. As you
690
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.639
know by now, this program is dedicated to empowering and
691
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:44.320
inspiring you along your journey to realize more of your potential.
692
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:47.199
I mentioned in my last book, The Great Revitalization, which
693
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:49.719
contains those twenty two best processes to equip you to
694
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.199
provide that great what I call work workplace experience and
695
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:58.480
destination workplace outcome. I gave you those twenty two practices
696
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.639
you can actually take on my webs say. There's a
697
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.239
pre download of a three page assessment that you can
698
00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:05.440
take and learn to see to what extent are you
699
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.760
meeting those those kinds of demands. It's at gustodeshnow dot
700
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.480
com if you are just now joining us. My guest
701
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:14.000
is Warren Cornblum. He's the author of Notes from the
702
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.239
Brandstand Thoughts on emotional branding from someone who has fought
703
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:21.079
for customer attention and won. So here I wanted to
704
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.320
contrast a few things here, Warren. I just really appreciated
705
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:27.480
how in your book you've contrasted some different brands and
706
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:30.000
like what where one sort of dropped the ball and
707
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:33.239
another one did something right. And we've already talked about
708
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.800
about Kodeact. But one thing I did want to say
709
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:39.320
that really struck me about that that is that you
710
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.000
said that this wasn't a case of market filler, it
711
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:46.280
was a brand paralyzed by its own success. Kodak died
712
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.280
on a hill of hesitation. I think that is so powerful,
713
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.400
and I know that's you know, it's you know, some
714
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.880
of the most senior leaders. I mean, what a hard
715
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:55.679
job is to know, you know, when to act, how
716
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.960
fast act, which way to go. But that is such
717
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.760
a sad story to see that they really, you know,
718
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:02.800
they were paralyzed by their own success.
719
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.920
Well, and I think you know, that happens more than
720
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.280
it should and probably more than a lot of people
721
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:15.519
think you're not. In the stock market terms the investment
722
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:18.000
they had, the you know, the too big to fail. Well,
723
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:19.760
I don't think it's too big to fail from a
724
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:22.719
financial perspective, although that obviously plays into it in a
725
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.719
completely different context. But sometimes I think brands get very arrogant.
726
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.760
They just think, well, it's going to stay the way
727
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.320
it is because that's always been the way it's been,
728
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:35.960
and that's just not true because at the end of
729
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.280
the day, it's the people you're dealing with your customers,
730
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.039
whether it's you know, business to business or business to
731
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.760
consumer or direct the consumer, it almost doesn't matter. It's
732
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.199
the people that you're trying to appeal to that have
733
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:50.360
the vote. You don't have a vote. You may have
734
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.320
a vote in the shareholder meeting or a board meeting,
735
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.440
but that vote doesn't transcend to the amount of to
736
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.920
the people who are dealing with you or patronizing you.
737
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:03.840
So I think that that arrogance, because I would almost
738
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:06.559
prefer that it be air against in blindness, because you
739
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.199
hope that there's talented people at the top, but that
740
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:11.760
it's going to go away. It's just a trend, it's
741
00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:14.280
just a fad. Or these competitors aren't really going to
742
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:19.599
keep making a dent in our share. That's just wrong.
743
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:23.280
I mean, I think the most successful brands are constantly
744
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.199
keeping their meaning, keeping their sense of purpose, but have
745
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:31.559
an ability to adjust and adapt. I won't I was
746
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:33.800
going to say reinvent, but I don't think reinvent is
747
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.360
the right word. The right word is that they adapt
748
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.480
and they understand that. Again, it's not about them, It's
749
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.079
about the people they're trying to deal with.
750
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.639
For sure. For sure, which brings me to the next
751
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.079
example that I wanted to talk about. I remember very
752
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:48.679
well when BlackBerry was it right, the BlackBerry you're if
753
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.440
you you know, it really conveyed so much that you know,
754
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:53.960
if you're holding BlackBerry, man, you must have a pretty
755
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:56.320
important job or you know, have something important going on
756
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.920
in your life. And I really appreciate how you were
757
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.480
distinguishing black Berry and Apple. So you say, you know,
758
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:06.679
Apple didn't just introduce the phone, it launched a lifestyle. Boy,
759
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.280
if that's not a great perfect sentence to describe that,
760
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:13.000
And you say, meanwhile, BlackBerry was slow to innovate and
761
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:17.000
unify its software strategy, and it became a footnote. And
762
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.599
so I think this is a really good This is
763
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:21.880
where you talk about the technological arrogance that can be
764
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.360
more damaging than ignorance, but because it makes you think
765
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:28.880
that you're right and so but in this case, the
766
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:31.079
world proves that you're wrong. So I thought that that
767
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:34.000
comparison of BlackBerry and Apple was really powerful.
768
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.400
You know. The interesting thing is being from Toronto. Originally
769
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:42.079
about where BlackBerry started was in a place called Kitchener Waterloo,
770
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.199
which is about eighty or ninety miles from Toronto, and
771
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:50.320
BlackBerry is still there, and BlackBerry is still a phenomenally
772
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:56.440
talented and gifted technology company, but it's lost almost entirely
773
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.719
it's consumer presence. So here you are talking about we
774
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.519
are from a science perspective and a technology perspective. We're
775
00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:06.280
you know, we're lights out, and governments use us because
776
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.840
of security and all that kind of stuff. But consumers
777
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:11.920
didn't care. What they wanted was they wanted something that
778
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:15.400
was easy to use, that had a little bit of
779
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.079
you know, some badge honor of having it that they
780
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.519
could fulfill their lifestyle. I mean Apple, the iPhone when
781
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:26.719
it first came out. We can remember the evolution I
782
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.840
mean Steve Jobs and followed by the people. I think
783
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:34.400
Apple's is a great example in many ways of founder
784
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.840
and founder transferring the knowledge and then new organization keeping
785
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.719
up and hopefully this new organization, new leadership will do
786
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:44.239
the same thing. But you know, Apple became a way
787
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.159
of life and a style of life as opposed to
788
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:51.199
a technology and BlackBerry stayed about technology. You still had
789
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.920
people that were saying, I liked the tech, what's coming
790
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.119
back today? I liked the tactile type keyboard on my
791
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.719
on my BlackBerry, and you know iPhone doesn't have that.
792
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:06.119
So what what iPhone had was iPhone had. It became
793
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:09.599
a part of everybody's lives, as did the music. It did,
794
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:12.480
the facetiming. I mean, they have just evolved in every
795
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:16.360
step of their company's history because of one thing. They
796
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.119
have a relentless focus on the people using their products
797
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:24.840
and realize, I think it's not just about innovation. It's
798
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:28.880
about innovating for the people. We're trying to make their
799
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:30.960
lives better or be a part of their lives is
800
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.840
probably a better way to put it. And I think BlackBerry, well,
801
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:37.840
obviously really smart people still are they just one on one?
802
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.679
Didn't make two, and it may be made like less
803
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:44.440
than one when it came to consumer adoption, And you're
804
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.440
right at the beginning everybody had a BlackBerry, and certainly
805
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.480
every business had them. There were businesses that didn't allow
806
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.559
you to use anything but a BlackBerry because of their technology,
807
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:56.639
and they just lost sight of their users, right right.
808
00:42:57.400 --> 00:42:59.199
You talk about you know, bed Beth and beyond it, it
809
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.679
was just you know, drowning and deals kind of thing.
810
00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:04.360
I remember that too, and sort of that goes back
811
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.199
to a brand stand as you were saying, and I
812
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:10.000
loved your chapter on clarifying your message and you say
813
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:13.079
clear beats clever, and I really appreciated that. If you
814
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:15.360
could speak a bit more to what you mean by
815
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.559
clear over clever, Well.
816
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:21.039
Sure, I think that people need to if again, I
817
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:23.719
probably am almost boring on how I keep coming back
818
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.639
to it, but it is such a fundamental belief of
819
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:28.719
mine is it's about them, it's not about us. And
820
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:33.920
if you take that posture and believe that, and your
821
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:39.039
whole thought process comes from that perspective, then really, in
822
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:42.039
addition to putting together something that is appealing to them,
823
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:43.760
that you have to be very clear about what you
824
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.760
stand for and very clear of what they can expect
825
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:49.800
from you, and very clear about why they should be
826
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:53.480
loyal to you. If it's all about let's go out
827
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.360
and hire some really creative person and have them come
828
00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:00.559
up with a catchy line, but the organization doesn't live
829
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:03.559
to it, or it's just or in some cases it
830
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:06.800
one one makes seven and it's just not what you
831
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:10.440
stand for. You can be as clever as you like,
832
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:14.000
but if it doesn't translate to the people catching it
833
00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:17.880
and receiving it, and it's not what they experience. And
834
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:21.320
the experience point is not just the website or the ad.
835
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:25.079
It's physically walking the stores. It's the experience of things
836
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:28.159
we've talked about before. It's customer service. It's got to
837
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:32.400
be you clearly have to stand for something, and yes
838
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:34.559
you need to be able to communicate it, but just
839
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.000
coming up with clever ways to say it doesn't mean
840
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.360
you're living it. And that is so bad term but
841
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:46.280
see thruable by the consumer that it's almost a negative.
842
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.760
So yeah, I think you know it's not to say
843
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:50.280
go up and be dumb and come up with dumb
844
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:54.840
campaigns or in any way to belittle the listener by
845
00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:58.199
not being clever, But it's saying, before you can be clever,
846
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.119
you have to be clear.
847
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:03.119
I loved what you said, Warren. You say clarity, on
848
00:45:03.199 --> 00:45:07.000
the other hand, as opposed to just being clever, allows
849
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:11.280
your customer to understand your message immediately, and so cleverness
850
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.440
might spark curiosity, but clarity builds confidence, and confidence is
851
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.039
what drives people to act. And you also go on
852
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:18.920
to say that you know you're really when you give
853
00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:23.440
them that confusion, then it produces friction, which pushes people away.
854
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.480
So when you're more clear, you're actually what you're doing
855
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:28.440
is you're showing your customer that you respect them, you
856
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.320
respect their time, their attention. And I thought that was
857
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:32.280
really powerful.
858
00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:36.920
Listen. I think that it's such a fundamental key to
859
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:40.320
success for all brands and businesses, and you know, you know,
860
00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:42.360
honest to you, I think it's the same thing for
861
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:46.400
us in life, right. I mean, there's so many through
862
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:51.079
lines to good likable people, to good likable brands that
863
00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:53.400
you know that have you know what you're getting, you
864
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:55.559
know what to expect, and you know how they value you.
865
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:58.880
And I think that that's not in pathy, you know,
866
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:03.639
positioning statements or one ad here or there. It's about
867
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:08.199
how you live, breathe, acts, and respect every day.
868
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:14.400
You have a wonderful chapter that's about the reinventors, the
869
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:17.480
brands that adapt and endure. And I appreciated that because
870
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.079
you were talking about, you know, how they've made tough
871
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:22.519
decisions that they were forced to, but they didn't wait
872
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.280
for disruption. They created it. They listened, they adapt, They
873
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:29.079
protect their core while transforming the edges. And I thought
874
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:31.400
that was also important, especially in these times when there's
875
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:34.559
a lot of organizations that are just scared and trying
876
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:36.000
to find their way. If you could just speak a
877
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.880
little bit, we only have, like MEYDI, a minute or
878
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:39.960
so for you to speak to that, if you would.
879
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:44.599
Sure, I think that it's really important again the customer focus.
880
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:48.280
I mean three of the examples I used, unfortunately were
881
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.280
not unfortunately because of where I was, two of them
882
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:51.880
come out of the toy industry. But I think they're
883
00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:56.960
great examples of reinvention. I mean, Barbie lifestyle changed right right,
884
00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:59.599
it's don't play with dolls anymore. But they found a
885
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:01.760
way to get relevant and we don't. We're not going
886
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.519
to get to it in a minute but it wasn't
887
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:05.920
because of the movie. That was part of it. But
888
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:09.159
they found a way to make themselves relevant to young
889
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:12.559
ladies and not just young ladies anymore. And I think,
890
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:14.000
you know, look at we talked about it a little
891
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.760
bit briefly earlier. I mean crocs. Crocs were these ugly
892
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:19.920
things that only doctors wore, and now they become like
893
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.679
kind of a part of life. And they found a
894
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.840
way to reinvent themselves. But by what they do, their purpose,
895
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.079
their meaning, yes, and they never changed their style. They
896
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:33.559
just reinvented themselves right to make themselves much more relevant today.
897
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.079
And probably my favorite of them all is Lego, I
898
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.960
mean from the Toypisse. I mean Lego. Lego shouldn't exist.
899
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.639
It just shouldn't exist if it was just a building
900
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:47.000
block company, right, I mean every kid had them, but
901
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:50.599
there's no reason in today's world where everything's gone online
902
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.280
and into digital and all that for Lego. Well, but
903
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.920
Lego found a way to live in both worlds. They've
904
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.360
done a magnificent job being there's there's more and more
905
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.599
examples of it. But that, I mean, reinvention is such
906
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:04.320
an important thing. It's well, you either reinvent or you die.
907
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:06.079
Right right, right right, And that's really what I want
908
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.159
and wanted to finish with. Is it's just so important
909
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:10.880
that we recognize that. I do want to give you
910
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:13.280
a chance to say, you know how you want to
911
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.679
close the conversation and say thirty seconds or so before
912
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:17.039
we go our separate ways.
913
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:19.480
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I
914
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:25.679
think that your passion for organizational health and organizational passion
915
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:29.039
and purpose is so analogous to some of the things
916
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.599
I do. I'm more external facing, but if I don't,
917
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:33.679
you know, in the situations I deal with, if you
918
00:48:33.719 --> 00:48:38.320
don't have the internal alignment, the internal belief, the external
919
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:42.920
doesn't matter. So I just hope that the biggest compliment
920
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.800
I get about the book from people who are in
921
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.840
my life is that they say, I felt like you
922
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:49.960
were talking to me, as opposed to yes, I didn't.
923
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.920
I never set out to write a textbook. This is
924
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.320
not a marketing textbook. It's about someone who loves brands
925
00:48:57.159 --> 00:48:59.840
for people who love brands and are just fascinated by it.
926
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:02.320
If they are, I hope they'll read it. And you know,
927
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:04.840
I a slute you for what you do. And I
928
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:06.480
don't think what we do Is that different? Is just
929
00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:08.360
a little bit of a different Maybe we walk in
930
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:10.320
a different door, but we're going into the same building.
931
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:13.559
I got that from your book and Warren, I really
932
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:15.599
enjoyed reading your book. I'm so grateful to know you,
933
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.159
to be connected with you and get to share with
934
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.480
my listeners around the globe. Thank you for being you
935
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:20.480
and sharing your wisdom.
936
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.280
Thank you for having me most welcome.
937
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.400
Listeners and viewers. You're want to learn more about Warren Kornbloom,
938
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:29.480
the work that he does advising leaders and brands on
939
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:32.199
how to build trust and emotional connections, and his book
940
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:35.039
notes from the brandstand, you can start by visiting him
941
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:38.800
at shareoheart dot com. Just like we've been talking about
942
00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:41.599
throughout the show. Last week, if you missed the live show,
943
00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:43.719
you can always catch up you recorded to podcast. We
944
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:47.119
were on air with Rabbi doctor Bahuk Halev talking about
945
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:49.480
the work he does in men's groups helping them heal
946
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:52.440
and come home to themselves, and in his book The
947
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:54.960
Guy in the Glass Six Questions to See the Man
948
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:58.079
You Were Meant to Be. It was an incredibly real,
949
00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:01.119
raw and powerful conversation where we started off with the
950
00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:04.639
incredibly tragic statistic that a man takes his life every
951
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.559
thirteen minutes, and that's the work that he's doing to
952
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:10.280
help be able to help men heal so that they
953
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:12.840
don't actually take their own lives. Very very powerful conversation.
954
00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.159
Next week will be on the air with Jason Wilde,
955
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:18.480
one of the authors of Genius at Scale, How Great
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Leaders Drive Innovation. See you then, and let's continue leaning
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in and discovering how to elevate your operating system as
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a leader to create destination workplaces where legendary business takes place.
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Let's work on Purpose.
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We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
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tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
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each week on W four C. Why Together we'll create
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a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance,
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and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning
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and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.