sway: Working class framework. I'm your co-host, host sway here with my co here with my co-host, Mr. Cummings. And we're here
Austin Cummings: Austin Mr. Busted Mike today.
sway: Okay, for all of our listeners who are tapping into the podcast, look, we're gonna get into Susperia, which we're both really excited about. But we want to let our
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: audience know today we're going to be watching Hope. and I'm so fucking excited. We've been waiting for this movie since the buzz surrounding it came out of Cannes
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: Film Festival. People saying it was terrible, some people saying it was amazing. Mm-hmm. They're talking about this is bros. Michael Bay, which I'm 100% in for. if you listen to our podcast, you haven't seen the the trailer for hope, go check it
Austin Cummings: Go watch it.
sway: out. It's so fucking good. We're gonna go watch an early screening. We'll we'll do a review, we'll post it up on our podcast for everybody to check it out. It's gonna be an exciting time, but today we're talking about Susperia. Susperia OG, Darry Argento's
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: colorful, magnificent Susperia from 1977. look at Guadanino's Susperior from two thousand eighteen. while doing research for this movie, I found a lot of people prefer Luca Guadalino's over Darry Argento's 1977, in my opinion, masterpiece. And but of course, we're
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: gonna get into the d the weeds and all the good stuff about these movies. let's start off with your feelings on Darie Argento's 1977 Suspira. What are your positives watching this movie? What struck out to you this time? Because I know you're you've watched this movie before.
Austin Cummings: yeah, I've seen it like a thousand times. this time what I really appreciated I think more so just because I have a better understanding of it now, I really love the pacing of it and I think the editing is actually pretty flawless. And the way that movie just flows from the first frame to the last frame, with no real sort of stop gap or sort of just like sluggishness is just beautiful. That movie flies.
sway: It it feels like water. It like I I feel like I was watching like a river
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: just like flow through with the pacing.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I I I can't even tell you what time when scenes stop. I maybe I think there was like a fade to
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: black moment, maybe like once or twice. but even then
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: It was just flowing. I never felt like I was watching a movie. I felt like I got transported into a world. And reason why I love that movie so much. And by the way, the 4K is on YouTube. If you are listening to our podcast
Austin Cummings: Yes.
sway: right now, the 4K is available for on YouTube to watch completely for free. So if you haven't seen it, go check
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: it out. they're they're both great. But yeah, the edit for Dario Argentos is flawless. The the score
Austin Cummings: It's perfect. It's like every scene Yeah. Well the goblin score is like that's d
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: a astronomical. that was literally forged in in like the river of some other reality. Like it's beautiful.
sway: Dude, it's it really adds so much life to the movie itself. I I think
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: i in many respects the the score is working as a character in the movie because it
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: adds this layer of mystique and I what I noticed was there was these like gasps and choirs that were wow shh
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: like doing all this crazy shit in this car. Yeah. It it's so good.
Austin Cummings: It does that a lot, yeah. Well I was gonna say I feel like a lot of the atmosphere and sort of like tone of the movie is kind of informed by that score. Where like there's
sway: Yeah. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: so many scenes I was watching where I was like, this score is kind of the glue because I just feel like a lot of the goals it's trying to pull off with both its scares and its visuals and its character acting, Kinda would fall apart if it didn't have that goblin score kind of binding it all, you know?
sway: I fully agree. And I think that it it feels like magical. It makes the movie feel magical.
Austin Cummings: It does.
sway: there's there's definitely fear looming the corners, but it it it's
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: it almost feels like like a beautiful poison apple. That's what it feels like. This
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: this entire movie. You are drawn to the horrors in a in a beautiful way, knowing that there's danger
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: lurking, knowing that shit is wrong, knowing that there's witches here, yet you wanna keep going. You want to keep finding
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: out what is next, what is around the corner, what the fuck are they doing behind the walls? I want to know it all. And I just could not stop. I could not take my eyes off the screen. I absolutely loved it. But I think this is where we can talk about the differences in approaches because there is a very distinct approach to Dario Argento's Susperia and a very distinct and appropriate approach to Luca Guadernino's Susperia. And I wanted to know, how did you feel Luca Guadernino's distinction in approaching suspire because there's some clear distinct differences here, right?
Austin Cummings: I think it's strangely enough, I think it's really the only way Luca could have gone with it in a way that felt fresh. Because whereas Dario's is so light and almost fantastical, you know, phantasmagoric even, I feel like Luca's is so dim and really gritty and really ominous and I feel like so much of what Lucas works for me specifically and it's funny 'cause it kind of works in both ways, but in two different sort of fashions where I think they're both very violent and mean spirited. kind of like it's like almost like a carnival. Like it almost feels just fantastical. there's colorful, she's fallen into razor wire, and it and it
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: looks like something out of a silent film, like German expressionism. Like half the movie I feel like is ripped from like Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. That kind of core. And then Lucas is like a really good punk album. Like it just feels really dark and rough around the edges. And you know, I think about all the scenes too in like the school and like even the violence in S. Lucas feels way more blunt. It feels way more brash and it just feels way more nihilistic. I think to me it's really the only way he could have tackled this and really brought something to the table that didn't feel just kind of stripped from what Argento is doing.
sway: Yeah, I I totally agree. as as you mentioned to strip it. is the best way to go about this route because if he would have even attempted in making new colors, right? It would have immediately
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: the comparison would have started. We would have done the comparison games on colors and who did it better, yada yada yada. And
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: this is what we aim to talk about here on the podcast and why I believe a good remake is an attempt of doing something different, bringing a new story to life with an
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: existing base. And here,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: Luca Guadanino with his remake strips it of his color and brings us into a bleak, dark world that is post World War Two. Post World War Two. And there's a lot
Austin Cummings: Very dark. Mm-hmm.
sway: of political expression. a lot of political activism, period, happening in the background of this movie that sort of shapes the narrative of this movie that I found to be excellent. I found it to be really, really well done. I truly do think that by taking out the color, He breathes a new life to Suspiria. And what stands out, because I think there is
Austin Cummings: Mm. Mm.
sway: no color, but there is the color red. And that is the one color that stands out and is prominent throughout the entire film. And I think that the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: use of this blank space that is always there creates a very eerie atmosphere. And Luca's attempt here
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: is to bring us into this world of bleak, of of despair, of
Austin Cummings: Of corruption.
sway: corruption.
Austin Cummings: of abuse
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: and abuse. I mean, you know, like I well, and even to your point, like, I think Argento, where he's more sort of interested in the overall exhilaration that the roller coaster provides, I think Luca is more about sitting back and really digging into the the sort of dirt under the fingernails of this school and really understanding the mochinations of how this sort of corrupt hierarchy works, you know?
sway: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean, there's even the the flashbacks to her as a child, which I think play a really big role in how religion and fascism kind of bleed together. Even seeing the flashback to understanding Susie Banyan's character as a child and how she was raised in a religious household with the little frames and the quotes of Bible verses on the walls and then her getting an iron to the hand because she was masturbating. paint a much broader picture of the character and who she is as she grows up and wanting to rebel,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: wanting to sort of do something outside of the the bounds of her religious household. Which I found to be very interesting. again, Luca, Luca's main objective here to me is to explore the lore, to expand on the lore and and to sort of take it in a new direction that Susperia, the original Superi, didn't do because they're doing completely different things,
Austin Cummings: I also think there's a a specific thing with Lucas where I think he's very interested in how groups that supposedly represent people, the hierarchy of which is represents the dancers, the way the RAF r represented West German leftist militantism, the actual West German government representing, you know, capitalism, where all these groups sort of have their language and their methodology for, coercing people into following them being the sort of false idol. As we get into that ending with the whole Mother Superior Superiorum character, it seems like he has this interest in dissecting those hierarchies, but also the remedy to destroying them. Because the whole ending of Susperia 2018 to me is literally like the rapture. It's like you have the the Mother Marcos who says she's Mother Superiorum, and then the real Mother Superiorum pulls up and she's like, No, you're all just evil, you're violent, you're manipulating old people. and making them think their wives are alive and she just kills them all. I think that's a very stark political statement of like how he feels about these systems and what he thinks should quite frankly be done to them, you know?
sway: Right. And I mean, we'll we'll touch more upon the ending as we go here because I think there's
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: a very beautiful ending to the remake that I feel like touches on the entire message that he's getting across with his political messaging, especially with leaders and false leaders and false gods the rise of fascism and how they need people who are spreading lies and are and have this sense
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: of superiority and they convince people of their lies. and and they
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: sort of need that vehicle of lies to gain power and to maintain their their power.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. That whole angle of Mother Superiorum is only in the remake, 'cause in the original it's just Mother Marcos. he added this whole like internal civil conflict with the remake where you have Madame Blanc and you have Madame Marcos battling for the supremacy of it, but Mother Marcos has convinced people she's the real like one of the three mothers of the witch the I guess the witch witchery. I I don't know what you call it. And I think yeah, yeah, the coven, yeah.
sway: Yeah. The Coven. The Coven. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: And I thought that was such an interesting angle, whereas like Argento and it which is fine, they're going for different things, but I think Argento
sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: is more of like, here is this sort of monster movie, and you're kind of just like tripping your way through this dream. Because that's how I feel was watching Suspiria in so many of those scenes. the way he edits that movie and the way some rooms they'll go into another room and the lighting will be different. It almost feels like you're stumbling through a dream and I think that quality to it this time around I really appreciated.
sway: Yeah, I I can't stress enough about the visuals. I mean there's nothing new that I'm going to add here that has not been praised throughout the decades. The lighting is just it's just
Austin Cummings: It's awesome.
sway: so jaw-dropping. And the one of
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: the reasons why I I I said in a video, five minutes into the movie I just stopped it because like I didn't feel like worthy of watching these scenes. It is so fantastic. It is so fantastic. It is unbelievable the way that these colors
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: look. the way the framing looks, the set designs, the blocking, the framing, and then you paired it along with
Austin Cummings: The blocking, yeah. Mm.
sway: that goblin score. I mean I was just, dude, I was in a trance, and I didn't want this movie to end. And I think like there is
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: something so wonderful about How Dario Argento crafted these rooms, these sets, these scenes, every scene changing into a new arena of
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: madness. it's intoxicating and I didn't want it to stop. I I absolutely adored the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: sets. I think I think the sets here are Ungodly. Ungodly. It's just unbelievable. Comparing those sets to
Austin Cummings: yeah.
sway: Luca Guadanino's sets and the way that he was approaching the movie is where I kind of think I start to falter a little bit. but not necessarily because Lucas are bad. It's just a completely different approach, right? There's way more of a minimalistic
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: setting because this they're just at a ballerina studio the color is drawn out, so there is no need for emphasis on these grand sets and more so One building the lore and where we're not too sure if Susie Banyon wants to be a part of this coven or wants to be a part of the cult But th we get a sense that she is. She wants to kinda give in. We w she wants to do whatever
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: witchcraft that they're up to, which is also a very interesting approach to this character as opposed to the original superior where she's constantly avoiding it and trying to not to get killed.
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah. Trying to subvert you. But like be like, there's no witches here. Yeah.
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Each film has such an interesting catalogue of side characters. the original, there's like the the blind piano player with the dog who eventually kills him. There's the ugly Romanian butler who who has like the teeth. Each movie has such an interesting diverse cast.
sway: I think I prefer the side characters in the original to the remake. there's
Austin Cummings: I agree. They're way more memorable.
sway: yeah, all the characters in the original are so memorable. I can't forget the the old
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: lady and the little boy in the original. Just 'cause like I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: remember seeing them, I'm like, they felt so out of place and so creepy.
Austin Cummings: Shining the light, yeah, like Yeah.
sway: Shining the light, that that scene is like burned into my memory. also I found the the blind pianist to be such a funny individual and also just so fucked up what happens to him on on multiple levels,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: even just like forcing the dog to commit violence and then manipulating
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: the dog to eat him is so fucked up.
Austin Cummings: Dude, and then you know what scenes really fucked up to me that it it's always lived in my head as my favorite scene, but every time I watch it I'm reminded how brazenly just kind of cruel and vicious it is scene where she climbs through the the little window opening and you think she sees the door and you're like, and they do a fake out and she falls into the pit of razor wire, like
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: barbed wire. And that scream she gives in that pit is just guttural. Like I always hear that scream in my head.
sway: Straight out of a saw movie. Specifically the Saw Two,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: you know, with the with the syringes. And I'm I now I'm wondering
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: if Saw Two was inspired by Suspiria's scene because
Austin Cummings: Probably.
sway: jumping into that the pit of barbed wire is just so it's it's it's simple, but it's brutal because everyone
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: has a clear understanding of what barbed wire is, has seen barbed wired.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I mean, even growing up I remember thinking like, How can I get over barbed wire? Like, how would that work? You know, I I don't know if you've ever thought about that.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I do know I've actually gotten I climbed over and got my pants torn off. Like So I was in my underwear, like I had to run home. Like I was just in a shirt, my backpack and underwear. Okay. Do you you wanna hear the story? Okay.
sway: Ha ha what were you doing? What were you doing? Getting over barbed wire. What was she doing? Yes, yes, I want to hear the story.
Austin Cummings: So me and a couple buddies lit off some fireworks and it low-key like just immediately s put a a bush on fire. So we went under this tunnel that goes under this neighborhood and we came out.
sway: Is this starting Fourth of July?
Austin Cummings: No, this was just like we were just shooting like yeah, we were just shooting fireworks at each other. And we
sway: You guys are just shooting air. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: were in a a concrete tunnel, so it was fine, right? But my dumbass friend at the time runs out of the tunnel chasing my homie with it, shooting at the bushes with it, and one lit on fire. Luckily nothing happened, obviously. But
sway: Okay, okay.
Austin Cummings: we crawl yeah, yeah, no worries, no one got hurt. It was fine. But we crawled under this little industrial area under a neighborhood and we got out and we had to get over this fence and As I get over, the barbed wire just grabs my shorts and just tears them right off. Like as I'm landing. So
sway: Ha ha ha.
Austin Cummings: I literally like, it was like a cartoon. I was like, and then like it just and I'm in my backpack, my shirt, and just underwear and shoes. And I just and luckily my house was in that neighborhood. So you just see me bolting in my underwear to get home. That was so bad. Yeah.
sway: Okay. that's so good. That's so good. It it it's funny you mentioned this because this is a comedic moment.
Austin Cummings: Ha.
sway: of my mutuals on Twitter had pointed out how this framing of this scene and the way that they shoot it feels almost like a Buster Keaton bit where the camera intentionally
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: doesn't show us the barbed wire and she falls down into it later revealing the barbed wire. Which I found that to be very interesting, you know.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. Yeah, well yeah.
sway: And of course like the whole conversation about comedic beats and like horror beats running around br running
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah.
sway: very similar, you know.
Austin Cummings: Well and also I think it li lends to the dream like quality where you know how like in dreams the logic is very fluid. So the way it sort of looks normal and then she just falls in a pit, and that's kinda goes for the whole movie. I mean the maggot ceiling, when she finds the secret doorway and there's like that golden hallway with all the text on the wall, like it doesn't feel real. It feels like you're just like blending into this endless seam of colors, you know?
sway: Yeah, I I agree. I mean in
Austin Cummings: And even the blocking, like it flows, whereas Lucas feels so harsh in its symmetry because of that brutalist architecture, you know?
sway: Yeah, I mean it's it's very reminiscent of a post-World War Two world. And I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: was this is this goes back now to the ending in these side characters in Susperia twenty eighteen where the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: doctor is a a victim of war, you know, just another another casual civilian who just had to endure pain and suffering brought upon by the leaders of of his country at the time and how
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: he lost his wife to the war and he was never sure what had happened to his wife. And then having to endure or sit with that pain for so long and then have to go through another traumatic incident where they first of all, they fuck with him. They bring his his his literal lover, like back in a yeah, wife in a vision
Austin Cummings: Wife back. Yeah.
sway: to lure him into the coven and for
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: strip him naked and force him to watch everything that went down. It's just
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: a different layer of hell that I don't I don't even think I could ever fathom. I think that would be it for me. Like I think I think I'd want to end it all after that.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. No. Also leads into one of the best jump scares in the movie where like they have him obviously through persuasion, he's like guided to the school. And right when he gets there, she disappears, and the first thing you see is this hard edit where the witch is like, and she like comes at him. And then they drag him and beat him in this cave. And I was like, what an awful way to treat this person. Like, it's cruel.
sway: This is truly, truly terrible. but
Austin Cummings: Terrible.
sway: you know, I think this where it ties into the ending with the Mother Susperium coming back to him and tells him, you know, We need guilt and but we don't need yours and erases his memory of the incidents that had happened and also grants him his wish of knowing what happened to his wife, which I found to be very beautiful. And there's
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: a writer by Chris Lambert that I shared the article with you where he talks about how this movie is sort of making a statement on how our political leaders who end up causing these atrocities never
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: are the ones to feel the guilt or or carry that guilt and sometimes are not even fucking punished. They just they either die
Austin Cummings: Mm. No.
sway: or they move on. And
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: and it's a it's a very, very sad reality to a lot of leaders who have caused so much pain, so much suffering, they they themselves will never feel that guilt. I mean you it takes a tremendous
Austin Cummings: No.
sway: amount of of evil to be able to carry out some of the atrocities that these people do that there is never going to be a sense of that period.
Austin Cummings: I would also add that on top of that they don't feel bad about what they do, their sort of ability to gaslight you and sort of manipulate you into believing what they're doing is good. Cause I think of all those scenes in 2018 where whenever there's some sort of miscommunication or distrust, Basically Marcos, played by perfectly by Tilda Swinton, does this thing where she sort of becomes affable. She tries to present herself as I'm a part of this womanhood with you, you know, I'm a part of this coven. Like
sway: Yeah. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: a and the and the sort of the lion presenting itself as the sheep,
sway: Yeah, I'm just like one of you. I'm just like one of you. I mean this is like
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: this is common fascist rhetoric, right? Hitler, Trump, these
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: leaders who proclaimed themselves to be These understanding figures, I'm just like you, I'm just like you, reaffirming all the fears that you have, especially when a country is in a desolate state, in a in a state of economic imbalance. You know, they come in,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
sway: they inject the fear of whatever marginalized group they want to sort of puppeteer to have you agree with their violent rhetoric and make you believe their lies. And And and s and offer
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: themselves as a God figure, right? They they proclaim themselves to carry this knowledge and their savior and I'm just like
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: you and I'm going to save you and then of course they don't. You know, they
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: they carry a drastic amount of violence that ends up affecting everyone.
Austin Cummings: it's that balance of security where what what do people want to feel? They want to feel secure. And how many of the witches even you know don't even necessarily agree with what's happening. You know, there's those scenes at the table where they're all discussing and they're like, Yeah, I don't like that or I think maybe this is the path we should take. But how when it comes time to fall in line, the system debate. They don't push back. They do exactly what they're told. I sort of take a lot of this system being presented, especially with like how it treats Mia goth and you know that horrible scene with the dance and the leg and how fascist systems may seem like there's a diversity of thought or discussion under it. But when it comes time, it licks the boot. It doesn't fight back. You know what I mean? And everybody falls in line.
sway: I mean and then you have the one witch who I I'm not sure if she was a witch or she's just part of the coven when she literally
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: kills herself and she has like an a moment of desperation when she she feels like something is wrong. She knows something is wrong and she just takes her life right in front of them. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Ooh, yeah, it's such a graphic scene too. I forgot about that. When we were watching that, I forgot that happened. I literally looked up and I was like, shit, like that I forgot she stabs herself in the neck.
sway: It's unbelievable. I I I would love to talk about that final scene too and just how
Austin Cummings: So metal.
sway: It's unbelievable. I I was really I was really wired in. I thought it w I thought it was pretty great. And then the final scene happens and I was like, damn, this is this is fucking fantastic. It's just
Austin Cummings: That visual that visual of her pulling her open her chest is so awesome.
sway: It's just it's so it's so interesting the way that Luca Guadernino ends up shooting this scene too. It is it is a slowed frame rate.
Austin Cummings: With the frame rate? Yeah. And the red
sway: Slowing down and all these all these women screaming and the red and the blood and you know, the the reveal that she is mother superiorum. was a very interesting reveal to me. I don't know how you felt about it. What did you think about the reveal? Because I I was left kind of puzzled in the in the in the moment that it happened.
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: And the more that I've sat with it, the more that I've enjoyed this reveal. What did you think and what did you take away? 'Cause this is your second time or or whatever time
Austin Cummings: Hmm.
sway: re watching this movie.
Austin Cummings: I think it works overall. I think maybe like the way it kind of just like plop this information right on you. And I I I don't know how much I think the delivery necessarily works, but I think the reveal and the unleashing of Mother's Susperiorum's power is so cool that like I kinda don't care if it doesn't make a hundred percent sense. especially like 'cause I just think it's such a artistically experimental but also like boundary pushing scene to just plop into an Amazon produced Susperia sequel. And I think it's emblematic of like the violence in the film and what it's sort of trying to say about, you know, regime change, how regimes hurt each other and the sort of sarcophagus it builds where you're just in this red room with this cabal and it's bloodshed. That's what it ultimately boils down to. It's awesome. And I gotta say this too before we forget. That Tom York score, I didn't I don't think it necessarily surpasses the goblin score, I can't say that. But he does
sway: Mm.
Austin Cummings: a really damn fine job of making a new score for Suspiria. I gotta give him credit. It really works.
sway: Yeah, I don't know if it surpasses the original Susperia, but it is good. It is
Austin Cummings: Yeah, I can't say that.
sway: really, really good. I think again, this is again to to the strengths of both of these films. I think we have our first duo on the OG versus remake series where we have a true contender for a really good remake and a really good original, both that stand
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: on their own two legs, presenting original ideas, taking the story and making something new and To compare them is useless. And that's where we want to get to with remakes. There's no need to compare these movies. They stand on their own, they present new ideas, and there's
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: a new vision being offered. And I think Luca Guadalino really nails it on the head here. Even if some strings aren't fully
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: like connected in this film, I think that for the most part, this is a fantastic, fantastic remake. And I don't even want to call it a remake. I think this is a fantastic interpretation of of Suspiria through Luca Guadernino's eyes
Austin Cummings: Mm. I agree.
sway: that really makes this movie stand as its own movie. and I I'm so happy that I could watch Suspiria, Dari Argento Suspiria, and love it for its own reasons and I can watch Luca
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: Guadernin's and take my own experiences away from it. And I think they both are beautiful
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: and I honestly am so glad that we have a true great OG in a two great great remake.
Austin Cummings: I I think this is one of the only times because I actually thought about this. I w I went really back and forth on which one I liked more because like I'd wake up and I'd be like, I like Susperius seventy seven more. And then I woke up the next day and I like, wait, I kinda like the 2018 a little more. And I think ultimately you'll be shocked. I landed I think I liked 2018 a little more.
sway: Okay.
Austin Cummings: but it's not due to anything Susperius seventy seven didn't or did do. I just think There's an itch, Susperia twenty eighteen scratches it just it I just think it's it's a little more interesting because and also I think Susperia twenty eighteen has the harder job because it can't do the Argento thing. even if Luca Guadaninos I think doesn't land a hundred percent in the way I think seventy seven does, I think the choices are so bold and unique to me that I think it kind of overpowers any sort of nagging criticism I could have.
sway: I I love both movies. I think choosing between these is a pointless game, you know? And I and I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: think ultimately people are going to like either of these movies for different reasons according to their taste. Which is why I I would prefer to watch the nineteen seventy seven Susperia over the twenty eighteen. But that is not to say that one is
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: better than the other. I think again they're both accomplishing different things and I I am in love with World Building. I'm in love with the colors. I'm in love with the score. I'm in love with the the dreamlike wonder that the 1977 Susperia movie has to offer. But in the same vein,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I love the ideas that are being presented in 2018's Luca Guadanino Susperia and his approach to doing a dreamlike wonder climax in his own maddening, blood-soaked
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah.
sway: way that really brings it all together for me, and there is still so much. Much lower, so much political conversation that the 2018 Suspiria movie has to offer that I really really loved. And I really loved researching and learning about the political conflicts that were happening in Germany post-World War II and how
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: it was divided into four sanctions, and different countries
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: control different parts of it. It's just there's so much to unravel politically with 2018 Suspiria and the performances
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: and the music that I think that again, both of these movies. movies stand to their own strengths. And I think ultimately choosing between these two is gonna come down to your own personal taste. I personally have 1977 above, or at least I would watch that one more than 2018's. But I love both of these
Austin Cummings: Bare.
sway: movies. And I I really enjoy both of these movies.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and like it it's kinda funny 'cause I think it also speaks to the fluidity of taste where even though I say I prefer twenty eighteen slightly more, it's literally like neck and neck because it it's one of those instances where I'll literally wake up and just be like, Today I'm thinking about this. I'm thinking of the ethereal melancholy of Argento's film. Or I'm thinking of the gritty, harsh reactionary nature within Susperia twenty eighteen. Especially 'cause, you know, you brought up the politics I think it's interesting they brought up the Bader Meinoff gang, which is I think I'm saying that correctly, sorry to our German fans. But the sort of context of the far left militancy and what they were doing in the seventies with their series of like violence versus the state, which ultimately put them all in jail and there was a suicide that happened. I think it's such an interesting platform to put your horror film in because I think ninety percent of it's gonna fly over everybody's head. But also I think it's one of those movies that you can dig you can see the surface level and there's such a rich underlying historical discussion to be had that you can endlessly sort of dive into that iceberg.
sway: There's so much rich subtext to twenty eighteen Susperia that I think that's why the more that I've sat with this after we watched it, the more that I've enjoyed it. And again,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I I can't say one is superior to the other. They both have their own strengths and I liked loved
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: both, actually. I loved both in in their own respective ways. And I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: I I'm really happy we got to these These movies because I think this is this is one of the the better OG versus remakes that we've done. And I I'm really I'm really excited because now we've got another one. We've got The Grudge versus the Grudge versus also another contender, one that also has a lot of
Austin Cummings: I'm so excited.
sway: fans for the remake, which I'm I'm really curious.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: But now the only problem is that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2003 also has a lot of fans, so that's why I'm a little bit worried. But we're gonna see. Either way, Susperio Dario Ardent. Suspiroca Guadanino, fantastic original versus remake.
Austin Cummings: Beautiful films.
sway: I can't wait, guys. We are going to be covering the grudge on the next episode, so make sure you guys watch the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: original versus the remake. What is the original? When was the original grudge released? Do you remember?
Austin Cummings: 2003 and then next
sway: This
Austin Cummings: the literal next year the remake came out. And you know what's crazy though?
sway: Holy shit, so literally a year later they made the
Austin Cummings: we forgot another detail to our audience. Sorry, not to interrupt you, Sway.
sway: No go.
Austin Cummings: both versions are directed by the same guy.
sway: Whoa. The grudge?
Austin Cummings: Yes. The original Takashi Shimizu. Yeah, he directed the original and the remake.
sway: Holy shit. Okay, that's gonna be that's gonna be very interesting. Okay, so there is a twenty nineteen one, but we're not doing that one. We're not doing that one.
Austin Cummings: that movie's bone. I can give you the review right now. Ash. That's the review. Yeah.
sway: Nah, nah, nah. We got we got the Grudge and the Grudge. I I'm dude, I'm so excited to check these movies out. It's gonna be
Austin Cummings: So excited.
sway: it's gonna be such a fantastic episode, and we're gonna dive into that. Guys, we've got that, and we're working on horror extravaganza, the sequel. We're gonna unveil everything. It's gonna be it's gonna be a beautiful run,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: but I'm excited. we're gonna do an episode with me live from Toronto. We'll we'll we'll talk about that more and we'll get the we'll get that set up.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. The live TIFF
sway: The live tiff updates. film bro sway's.
Austin Cummings: In the theater too while you're in the screening.
sway: Bro, I'm going to live screen the devils on my laptop while I'm in that theater. Yeah. Listen,
Austin Cummings: We're gonna watch it live here.
sway: I'm Arellano This is Working Class Frame OG versus Remix. His spiria. I'm Oswatiana with my co-host.
Austin Cummings: Austin.
sway: Thank y'all for tuning in, guys. We'll catch y'all in the next episode. Peace.
Austin Cummings: Austin Mr. Busted Mike today.
sway: Okay, for all of our listeners who are tapping into the podcast, look, we're gonna get into Susperia, which we're both really excited about. But we want to let our
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: audience know today we're going to be watching Hope. and I'm so fucking excited. We've been waiting for this movie since the buzz surrounding it came out of Cannes
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: Film Festival. People saying it was terrible, some people saying it was amazing. Mm-hmm. They're talking about this is bros. Michael Bay, which I'm 100% in for. if you listen to our podcast, you haven't seen the the trailer for hope, go check it
Austin Cummings: Go watch it.
sway: out. It's so fucking good. We're gonna go watch an early screening. We'll we'll do a review, we'll post it up on our podcast for everybody to check it out. It's gonna be an exciting time, but today we're talking about Susperia. Susperia OG, Darry Argento's
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: colorful, magnificent Susperia from 1977. look at Guadanino's Susperior from two thousand eighteen. while doing research for this movie, I found a lot of people prefer Luca Guadalino's over Darry Argento's 1977, in my opinion, masterpiece. And but of course, we're
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: gonna get into the d the weeds and all the good stuff about these movies. let's start off with your feelings on Darie Argento's 1977 Suspira. What are your positives watching this movie? What struck out to you this time? Because I know you're you've watched this movie before.
Austin Cummings: yeah, I've seen it like a thousand times. this time what I really appreciated I think more so just because I have a better understanding of it now, I really love the pacing of it and I think the editing is actually pretty flawless. And the way that movie just flows from the first frame to the last frame, with no real sort of stop gap or sort of just like sluggishness is just beautiful. That movie flies.
sway: It it feels like water. It like I I feel like I was watching like a river
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: just like flow through with the pacing.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I I I can't even tell you what time when scenes stop. I maybe I think there was like a fade to
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: black moment, maybe like once or twice. but even then
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: It was just flowing. I never felt like I was watching a movie. I felt like I got transported into a world. And reason why I love that movie so much. And by the way, the 4K is on YouTube. If you are listening to our podcast
Austin Cummings: Yes.
sway: right now, the 4K is available for on YouTube to watch completely for free. So if you haven't seen it, go check
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: it out. they're they're both great. But yeah, the edit for Dario Argentos is flawless. The the score
Austin Cummings: It's perfect. It's like every scene Yeah. Well the goblin score is like that's d
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: a astronomical. that was literally forged in in like the river of some other reality. Like it's beautiful.
sway: Dude, it's it really adds so much life to the movie itself. I I think
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: i in many respects the the score is working as a character in the movie because it
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: adds this layer of mystique and I what I noticed was there was these like gasps and choirs that were wow shh
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: like doing all this crazy shit in this car. Yeah. It it's so good.
Austin Cummings: It does that a lot, yeah. Well I was gonna say I feel like a lot of the atmosphere and sort of like tone of the movie is kind of informed by that score. Where like there's
sway: Yeah. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: so many scenes I was watching where I was like, this score is kind of the glue because I just feel like a lot of the goals it's trying to pull off with both its scares and its visuals and its character acting, Kinda would fall apart if it didn't have that goblin score kind of binding it all, you know?
sway: I fully agree. And I think that it it feels like magical. It makes the movie feel magical.
Austin Cummings: It does.
sway: there's there's definitely fear looming the corners, but it it it's
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: it almost feels like like a beautiful poison apple. That's what it feels like. This
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: this entire movie. You are drawn to the horrors in a in a beautiful way, knowing that there's danger
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: lurking, knowing that shit is wrong, knowing that there's witches here, yet you wanna keep going. You want to keep finding
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: out what is next, what is around the corner, what the fuck are they doing behind the walls? I want to know it all. And I just could not stop. I could not take my eyes off the screen. I absolutely loved it. But I think this is where we can talk about the differences in approaches because there is a very distinct approach to Dario Argento's Susperia and a very distinct and appropriate approach to Luca Guadernino's Susperia. And I wanted to know, how did you feel Luca Guadernino's distinction in approaching suspire because there's some clear distinct differences here, right?
Austin Cummings: I think it's strangely enough, I think it's really the only way Luca could have gone with it in a way that felt fresh. Because whereas Dario's is so light and almost fantastical, you know, phantasmagoric even, I feel like Luca's is so dim and really gritty and really ominous and I feel like so much of what Lucas works for me specifically and it's funny 'cause it kind of works in both ways, but in two different sort of fashions where I think they're both very violent and mean spirited. kind of like it's like almost like a carnival. Like it almost feels just fantastical. there's colorful, she's fallen into razor wire, and it and it
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: looks like something out of a silent film, like German expressionism. Like half the movie I feel like is ripped from like Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. That kind of core. And then Lucas is like a really good punk album. Like it just feels really dark and rough around the edges. And you know, I think about all the scenes too in like the school and like even the violence in S. Lucas feels way more blunt. It feels way more brash and it just feels way more nihilistic. I think to me it's really the only way he could have tackled this and really brought something to the table that didn't feel just kind of stripped from what Argento is doing.
sway: Yeah, I I totally agree. as as you mentioned to strip it. is the best way to go about this route because if he would have even attempted in making new colors, right? It would have immediately
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: the comparison would have started. We would have done the comparison games on colors and who did it better, yada yada yada. And
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: this is what we aim to talk about here on the podcast and why I believe a good remake is an attempt of doing something different, bringing a new story to life with an
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: existing base. And here,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: Luca Guadanino with his remake strips it of his color and brings us into a bleak, dark world that is post World War Two. Post World War Two. And there's a lot
Austin Cummings: Very dark. Mm-hmm.
sway: of political expression. a lot of political activism, period, happening in the background of this movie that sort of shapes the narrative of this movie that I found to be excellent. I found it to be really, really well done. I truly do think that by taking out the color, He breathes a new life to Suspiria. And what stands out, because I think there is
Austin Cummings: Mm. Mm.
sway: no color, but there is the color red. And that is the one color that stands out and is prominent throughout the entire film. And I think that the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: use of this blank space that is always there creates a very eerie atmosphere. And Luca's attempt here
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: is to bring us into this world of bleak, of of despair, of
Austin Cummings: Of corruption.
sway: corruption.
Austin Cummings: of abuse
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: and abuse. I mean, you know, like I well, and even to your point, like, I think Argento, where he's more sort of interested in the overall exhilaration that the roller coaster provides, I think Luca is more about sitting back and really digging into the the sort of dirt under the fingernails of this school and really understanding the mochinations of how this sort of corrupt hierarchy works, you know?
sway: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean, there's even the the flashbacks to her as a child, which I think play a really big role in how religion and fascism kind of bleed together. Even seeing the flashback to understanding Susie Banyan's character as a child and how she was raised in a religious household with the little frames and the quotes of Bible verses on the walls and then her getting an iron to the hand because she was masturbating. paint a much broader picture of the character and who she is as she grows up and wanting to rebel,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: wanting to sort of do something outside of the the bounds of her religious household. Which I found to be very interesting. again, Luca, Luca's main objective here to me is to explore the lore, to expand on the lore and and to sort of take it in a new direction that Susperia, the original Superi, didn't do because they're doing completely different things,
Austin Cummings: I also think there's a a specific thing with Lucas where I think he's very interested in how groups that supposedly represent people, the hierarchy of which is represents the dancers, the way the RAF r represented West German leftist militantism, the actual West German government representing, you know, capitalism, where all these groups sort of have their language and their methodology for, coercing people into following them being the sort of false idol. As we get into that ending with the whole Mother Superior Superiorum character, it seems like he has this interest in dissecting those hierarchies, but also the remedy to destroying them. Because the whole ending of Susperia 2018 to me is literally like the rapture. It's like you have the the Mother Marcos who says she's Mother Superiorum, and then the real Mother Superiorum pulls up and she's like, No, you're all just evil, you're violent, you're manipulating old people. and making them think their wives are alive and she just kills them all. I think that's a very stark political statement of like how he feels about these systems and what he thinks should quite frankly be done to them, you know?
sway: Right. And I mean, we'll we'll touch more upon the ending as we go here because I think there's
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: a very beautiful ending to the remake that I feel like touches on the entire message that he's getting across with his political messaging, especially with leaders and false leaders and false gods the rise of fascism and how they need people who are spreading lies and are and have this sense
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: of superiority and they convince people of their lies. and and they
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: sort of need that vehicle of lies to gain power and to maintain their their power.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. That whole angle of Mother Superiorum is only in the remake, 'cause in the original it's just Mother Marcos. he added this whole like internal civil conflict with the remake where you have Madame Blanc and you have Madame Marcos battling for the supremacy of it, but Mother Marcos has convinced people she's the real like one of the three mothers of the witch the I guess the witch witchery. I I don't know what you call it. And I think yeah, yeah, the coven, yeah.
sway: Yeah. The Coven. The Coven. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: And I thought that was such an interesting angle, whereas like Argento and it which is fine, they're going for different things, but I think Argento
sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: is more of like, here is this sort of monster movie, and you're kind of just like tripping your way through this dream. Because that's how I feel was watching Suspiria in so many of those scenes. the way he edits that movie and the way some rooms they'll go into another room and the lighting will be different. It almost feels like you're stumbling through a dream and I think that quality to it this time around I really appreciated.
sway: Yeah, I I can't stress enough about the visuals. I mean there's nothing new that I'm going to add here that has not been praised throughout the decades. The lighting is just it's just
Austin Cummings: It's awesome.
sway: so jaw-dropping. And the one of
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: the reasons why I I I said in a video, five minutes into the movie I just stopped it because like I didn't feel like worthy of watching these scenes. It is so fantastic. It is so fantastic. It is unbelievable the way that these colors
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: look. the way the framing looks, the set designs, the blocking, the framing, and then you paired it along with
Austin Cummings: The blocking, yeah. Mm.
sway: that goblin score. I mean I was just, dude, I was in a trance, and I didn't want this movie to end. And I think like there is
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: something so wonderful about How Dario Argento crafted these rooms, these sets, these scenes, every scene changing into a new arena of
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: madness. it's intoxicating and I didn't want it to stop. I I absolutely adored the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: sets. I think I think the sets here are Ungodly. Ungodly. It's just unbelievable. Comparing those sets to
Austin Cummings: yeah.
sway: Luca Guadanino's sets and the way that he was approaching the movie is where I kind of think I start to falter a little bit. but not necessarily because Lucas are bad. It's just a completely different approach, right? There's way more of a minimalistic
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: setting because this they're just at a ballerina studio the color is drawn out, so there is no need for emphasis on these grand sets and more so One building the lore and where we're not too sure if Susie Banyon wants to be a part of this coven or wants to be a part of the cult But th we get a sense that she is. She wants to kinda give in. We w she wants to do whatever
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: witchcraft that they're up to, which is also a very interesting approach to this character as opposed to the original superior where she's constantly avoiding it and trying to not to get killed.
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah. Trying to subvert you. But like be like, there's no witches here. Yeah.
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Each film has such an interesting catalogue of side characters. the original, there's like the the blind piano player with the dog who eventually kills him. There's the ugly Romanian butler who who has like the teeth. Each movie has such an interesting diverse cast.
sway: I think I prefer the side characters in the original to the remake. there's
Austin Cummings: I agree. They're way more memorable.
sway: yeah, all the characters in the original are so memorable. I can't forget the the old
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: lady and the little boy in the original. Just 'cause like I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: remember seeing them, I'm like, they felt so out of place and so creepy.
Austin Cummings: Shining the light, yeah, like Yeah.
sway: Shining the light, that that scene is like burned into my memory. also I found the the blind pianist to be such a funny individual and also just so fucked up what happens to him on on multiple levels,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: even just like forcing the dog to commit violence and then manipulating
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: the dog to eat him is so fucked up.
Austin Cummings: Dude, and then you know what scenes really fucked up to me that it it's always lived in my head as my favorite scene, but every time I watch it I'm reminded how brazenly just kind of cruel and vicious it is scene where she climbs through the the little window opening and you think she sees the door and you're like, and they do a fake out and she falls into the pit of razor wire, like
sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: barbed wire. And that scream she gives in that pit is just guttural. Like I always hear that scream in my head.
sway: Straight out of a saw movie. Specifically the Saw Two,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: you know, with the with the syringes. And I'm I now I'm wondering
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: if Saw Two was inspired by Suspiria's scene because
Austin Cummings: Probably.
sway: jumping into that the pit of barbed wire is just so it's it's it's simple, but it's brutal because everyone
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: has a clear understanding of what barbed wire is, has seen barbed wired.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I mean, even growing up I remember thinking like, How can I get over barbed wire? Like, how would that work? You know, I I don't know if you've ever thought about that.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I do know I've actually gotten I climbed over and got my pants torn off. Like So I was in my underwear, like I had to run home. Like I was just in a shirt, my backpack and underwear. Okay. Do you you wanna hear the story? Okay.
sway: Ha ha what were you doing? What were you doing? Getting over barbed wire. What was she doing? Yes, yes, I want to hear the story.
Austin Cummings: So me and a couple buddies lit off some fireworks and it low-key like just immediately s put a a bush on fire. So we went under this tunnel that goes under this neighborhood and we came out.
sway: Is this starting Fourth of July?
Austin Cummings: No, this was just like we were just shooting like yeah, we were just shooting fireworks at each other. And we
sway: You guys are just shooting air. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: were in a a concrete tunnel, so it was fine, right? But my dumbass friend at the time runs out of the tunnel chasing my homie with it, shooting at the bushes with it, and one lit on fire. Luckily nothing happened, obviously. But
sway: Okay, okay.
Austin Cummings: we crawl yeah, yeah, no worries, no one got hurt. It was fine. But we crawled under this little industrial area under a neighborhood and we got out and we had to get over this fence and As I get over, the barbed wire just grabs my shorts and just tears them right off. Like as I'm landing. So
sway: Ha ha ha.
Austin Cummings: I literally like, it was like a cartoon. I was like, and then like it just and I'm in my backpack, my shirt, and just underwear and shoes. And I just and luckily my house was in that neighborhood. So you just see me bolting in my underwear to get home. That was so bad. Yeah.
sway: Okay. that's so good. That's so good. It it it's funny you mentioned this because this is a comedic moment.
Austin Cummings: Ha.
sway: of my mutuals on Twitter had pointed out how this framing of this scene and the way that they shoot it feels almost like a Buster Keaton bit where the camera intentionally
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: doesn't show us the barbed wire and she falls down into it later revealing the barbed wire. Which I found that to be very interesting, you know.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. Yeah, well yeah.
sway: And of course like the whole conversation about comedic beats and like horror beats running around br running
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah.
sway: very similar, you know.
Austin Cummings: Well and also I think it li lends to the dream like quality where you know how like in dreams the logic is very fluid. So the way it sort of looks normal and then she just falls in a pit, and that's kinda goes for the whole movie. I mean the maggot ceiling, when she finds the secret doorway and there's like that golden hallway with all the text on the wall, like it doesn't feel real. It feels like you're just like blending into this endless seam of colors, you know?
sway: Yeah, I I agree. I mean in
Austin Cummings: And even the blocking, like it flows, whereas Lucas feels so harsh in its symmetry because of that brutalist architecture, you know?
sway: Yeah, I mean it's it's very reminiscent of a post-World War Two world. And I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: was this is this goes back now to the ending in these side characters in Susperia twenty eighteen where the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: doctor is a a victim of war, you know, just another another casual civilian who just had to endure pain and suffering brought upon by the leaders of of his country at the time and how
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: he lost his wife to the war and he was never sure what had happened to his wife. And then having to endure or sit with that pain for so long and then have to go through another traumatic incident where they first of all, they fuck with him. They bring his his his literal lover, like back in a yeah, wife in a vision
Austin Cummings: Wife back. Yeah.
sway: to lure him into the coven and for
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: strip him naked and force him to watch everything that went down. It's just
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: a different layer of hell that I don't I don't even think I could ever fathom. I think that would be it for me. Like I think I think I'd want to end it all after that.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. No. Also leads into one of the best jump scares in the movie where like they have him obviously through persuasion, he's like guided to the school. And right when he gets there, she disappears, and the first thing you see is this hard edit where the witch is like, and she like comes at him. And then they drag him and beat him in this cave. And I was like, what an awful way to treat this person. Like, it's cruel.
sway: This is truly, truly terrible. but
Austin Cummings: Terrible.
sway: you know, I think this where it ties into the ending with the Mother Susperium coming back to him and tells him, you know, We need guilt and but we don't need yours and erases his memory of the incidents that had happened and also grants him his wish of knowing what happened to his wife, which I found to be very beautiful. And there's
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: a writer by Chris Lambert that I shared the article with you where he talks about how this movie is sort of making a statement on how our political leaders who end up causing these atrocities never
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: are the ones to feel the guilt or or carry that guilt and sometimes are not even fucking punished. They just they either die
Austin Cummings: Mm. No.
sway: or they move on. And
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: and it's a it's a very, very sad reality to a lot of leaders who have caused so much pain, so much suffering, they they themselves will never feel that guilt. I mean you it takes a tremendous
Austin Cummings: No.
sway: amount of of evil to be able to carry out some of the atrocities that these people do that there is never going to be a sense of that period.
Austin Cummings: I would also add that on top of that they don't feel bad about what they do, their sort of ability to gaslight you and sort of manipulate you into believing what they're doing is good. Cause I think of all those scenes in 2018 where whenever there's some sort of miscommunication or distrust, Basically Marcos, played by perfectly by Tilda Swinton, does this thing where she sort of becomes affable. She tries to present herself as I'm a part of this womanhood with you, you know, I'm a part of this coven. Like
sway: Yeah. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: a and the and the sort of the lion presenting itself as the sheep,
sway: Yeah, I'm just like one of you. I'm just like one of you. I mean this is like
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: this is common fascist rhetoric, right? Hitler, Trump, these
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: leaders who proclaimed themselves to be These understanding figures, I'm just like you, I'm just like you, reaffirming all the fears that you have, especially when a country is in a desolate state, in a in a state of economic imbalance. You know, they come in,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
sway: they inject the fear of whatever marginalized group they want to sort of puppeteer to have you agree with their violent rhetoric and make you believe their lies. And And and s and offer
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: themselves as a God figure, right? They they proclaim themselves to carry this knowledge and their savior and I'm just like
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: you and I'm going to save you and then of course they don't. You know, they
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: they carry a drastic amount of violence that ends up affecting everyone.
Austin Cummings: it's that balance of security where what what do people want to feel? They want to feel secure. And how many of the witches even you know don't even necessarily agree with what's happening. You know, there's those scenes at the table where they're all discussing and they're like, Yeah, I don't like that or I think maybe this is the path we should take. But how when it comes time to fall in line, the system debate. They don't push back. They do exactly what they're told. I sort of take a lot of this system being presented, especially with like how it treats Mia goth and you know that horrible scene with the dance and the leg and how fascist systems may seem like there's a diversity of thought or discussion under it. But when it comes time, it licks the boot. It doesn't fight back. You know what I mean? And everybody falls in line.
sway: I mean and then you have the one witch who I I'm not sure if she was a witch or she's just part of the coven when she literally
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: kills herself and she has like an a moment of desperation when she she feels like something is wrong. She knows something is wrong and she just takes her life right in front of them. Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Ooh, yeah, it's such a graphic scene too. I forgot about that. When we were watching that, I forgot that happened. I literally looked up and I was like, shit, like that I forgot she stabs herself in the neck.
sway: It's unbelievable. I I I would love to talk about that final scene too and just how
Austin Cummings: So metal.
sway: It's unbelievable. I I was really I was really wired in. I thought it w I thought it was pretty great. And then the final scene happens and I was like, damn, this is this is fucking fantastic. It's just
Austin Cummings: That visual that visual of her pulling her open her chest is so awesome.
sway: It's just it's so it's so interesting the way that Luca Guadernino ends up shooting this scene too. It is it is a slowed frame rate.
Austin Cummings: With the frame rate? Yeah. And the red
sway: Slowing down and all these all these women screaming and the red and the blood and you know, the the reveal that she is mother superiorum. was a very interesting reveal to me. I don't know how you felt about it. What did you think about the reveal? Because I I was left kind of puzzled in the in the in the moment that it happened.
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: And the more that I've sat with it, the more that I've enjoyed this reveal. What did you think and what did you take away? 'Cause this is your second time or or whatever time
Austin Cummings: Hmm.
sway: re watching this movie.
Austin Cummings: I think it works overall. I think maybe like the way it kind of just like plop this information right on you. And I I I don't know how much I think the delivery necessarily works, but I think the reveal and the unleashing of Mother's Susperiorum's power is so cool that like I kinda don't care if it doesn't make a hundred percent sense. especially like 'cause I just think it's such a artistically experimental but also like boundary pushing scene to just plop into an Amazon produced Susperia sequel. And I think it's emblematic of like the violence in the film and what it's sort of trying to say about, you know, regime change, how regimes hurt each other and the sort of sarcophagus it builds where you're just in this red room with this cabal and it's bloodshed. That's what it ultimately boils down to. It's awesome. And I gotta say this too before we forget. That Tom York score, I didn't I don't think it necessarily surpasses the goblin score, I can't say that. But he does
sway: Mm.
Austin Cummings: a really damn fine job of making a new score for Suspiria. I gotta give him credit. It really works.
sway: Yeah, I don't know if it surpasses the original Susperia, but it is good. It is
Austin Cummings: Yeah, I can't say that.
sway: really, really good. I think again, this is again to to the strengths of both of these films. I think we have our first duo on the OG versus remake series where we have a true contender for a really good remake and a really good original, both that stand
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: on their own two legs, presenting original ideas, taking the story and making something new and To compare them is useless. And that's where we want to get to with remakes. There's no need to compare these movies. They stand on their own, they present new ideas, and there's
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: a new vision being offered. And I think Luca Guadalino really nails it on the head here. Even if some strings aren't fully
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: like connected in this film, I think that for the most part, this is a fantastic, fantastic remake. And I don't even want to call it a remake. I think this is a fantastic interpretation of of Suspiria through Luca Guadernino's eyes
Austin Cummings: Mm. I agree.
sway: that really makes this movie stand as its own movie. and I I'm so happy that I could watch Suspiria, Dari Argento Suspiria, and love it for its own reasons and I can watch Luca
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: Guadernin's and take my own experiences away from it. And I think they both are beautiful
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: and I honestly am so glad that we have a true great OG in a two great great remake.
Austin Cummings: I I think this is one of the only times because I actually thought about this. I w I went really back and forth on which one I liked more because like I'd wake up and I'd be like, I like Susperius seventy seven more. And then I woke up the next day and I like, wait, I kinda like the 2018 a little more. And I think ultimately you'll be shocked. I landed I think I liked 2018 a little more.
sway: Okay.
Austin Cummings: but it's not due to anything Susperius seventy seven didn't or did do. I just think There's an itch, Susperia twenty eighteen scratches it just it I just think it's it's a little more interesting because and also I think Susperia twenty eighteen has the harder job because it can't do the Argento thing. even if Luca Guadaninos I think doesn't land a hundred percent in the way I think seventy seven does, I think the choices are so bold and unique to me that I think it kind of overpowers any sort of nagging criticism I could have.
sway: I I love both movies. I think choosing between these is a pointless game, you know? And I and I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: think ultimately people are going to like either of these movies for different reasons according to their taste. Which is why I I would prefer to watch the nineteen seventy seven Susperia over the twenty eighteen. But that is not to say that one is
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: better than the other. I think again they're both accomplishing different things and I I am in love with World Building. I'm in love with the colors. I'm in love with the score. I'm in love with the the dreamlike wonder that the 1977 Susperia movie has to offer. But in the same vein,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I love the ideas that are being presented in 2018's Luca Guadanino Susperia and his approach to doing a dreamlike wonder climax in his own maddening, blood-soaked
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah.
sway: way that really brings it all together for me, and there is still so much. Much lower, so much political conversation that the 2018 Suspiria movie has to offer that I really really loved. And I really loved researching and learning about the political conflicts that were happening in Germany post-World War II and how
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: it was divided into four sanctions, and different countries
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: control different parts of it. It's just there's so much to unravel politically with 2018 Suspiria and the performances
Austin Cummings: Mm.
sway: and the music that I think that again, both of these movies. movies stand to their own strengths. And I think ultimately choosing between these two is gonna come down to your own personal taste. I personally have 1977 above, or at least I would watch that one more than 2018's. But I love both of these
Austin Cummings: Bare.
sway: movies. And I I really enjoy both of these movies.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and like it it's kinda funny 'cause I think it also speaks to the fluidity of taste where even though I say I prefer twenty eighteen slightly more, it's literally like neck and neck because it it's one of those instances where I'll literally wake up and just be like, Today I'm thinking about this. I'm thinking of the ethereal melancholy of Argento's film. Or I'm thinking of the gritty, harsh reactionary nature within Susperia twenty eighteen. Especially 'cause, you know, you brought up the politics I think it's interesting they brought up the Bader Meinoff gang, which is I think I'm saying that correctly, sorry to our German fans. But the sort of context of the far left militancy and what they were doing in the seventies with their series of like violence versus the state, which ultimately put them all in jail and there was a suicide that happened. I think it's such an interesting platform to put your horror film in because I think ninety percent of it's gonna fly over everybody's head. But also I think it's one of those movies that you can dig you can see the surface level and there's such a rich underlying historical discussion to be had that you can endlessly sort of dive into that iceberg.
sway: There's so much rich subtext to twenty eighteen Susperia that I think that's why the more that I've sat with this after we watched it, the more that I've enjoyed it. And again,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: I I can't say one is superior to the other. They both have their own strengths and I liked loved
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: both, actually. I loved both in in their own respective ways. And I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
sway: I I'm really happy we got to these These movies because I think this is this is one of the the better OG versus remakes that we've done. And I I'm really I'm really excited because now we've got another one. We've got The Grudge versus the Grudge versus also another contender, one that also has a lot of
Austin Cummings: I'm so excited.
sway: fans for the remake, which I'm I'm really curious.
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: But now the only problem is that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2003 also has a lot of fans, so that's why I'm a little bit worried. But we're gonna see. Either way, Susperio Dario Ardent. Suspiroca Guadanino, fantastic original versus remake.
Austin Cummings: Beautiful films.
sway: I can't wait, guys. We are going to be covering the grudge on the next episode, so make sure you guys watch the
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: original versus the remake. What is the original? When was the original grudge released? Do you remember?
Austin Cummings: 2003 and then next
sway: This
Austin Cummings: the literal next year the remake came out. And you know what's crazy though?
sway: Holy shit, so literally a year later they made the
Austin Cummings: we forgot another detail to our audience. Sorry, not to interrupt you, Sway.
sway: No go.
Austin Cummings: both versions are directed by the same guy.
sway: Whoa. The grudge?
Austin Cummings: Yes. The original Takashi Shimizu. Yeah, he directed the original and the remake.
sway: Holy shit. Okay, that's gonna be that's gonna be very interesting. Okay, so there is a twenty nineteen one, but we're not doing that one. We're not doing that one.
Austin Cummings: that movie's bone. I can give you the review right now. Ash. That's the review. Yeah.
sway: Nah, nah, nah. We got we got the Grudge and the Grudge. I I'm dude, I'm so excited to check these movies out. It's gonna be
Austin Cummings: So excited.
sway: it's gonna be such a fantastic episode, and we're gonna dive into that. Guys, we've got that, and we're working on horror extravaganza, the sequel. We're gonna unveil everything. It's gonna be it's gonna be a beautiful run,
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
sway: but I'm excited. we're gonna do an episode with me live from Toronto. We'll we'll we'll talk about that more and we'll get the we'll get that set up.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. The live TIFF
sway: The live tiff updates. film bro sway's.
Austin Cummings: In the theater too while you're in the screening.
sway: Bro, I'm going to live screen the devils on my laptop while I'm in that theater. Yeah. Listen,
Austin Cummings: We're gonna watch it live here.
sway: I'm Arellano This is Working Class Frame OG versus Remix. His spiria. I'm Oswatiana with my co-host.
Austin Cummings: Austin.
sway: Thank y'all for tuning in, guys. We'll catch y'all in the next episode. Peace.
