Wit or Wit-Out Episode 17 Darryl McCray

dennis slack: My name is Darrell McCrae. I'm also known as Cornbread. I am the youngest person ever to establish an international art movement. I changed the historical course of my generation and generations that followed me. I gave birth to a global phenomenon. I was born and raised in Brewery Town, and I love Philly. I love Philly because Philly is the birthplace of hip hop graffiti. Welcome, wit or without users. Like my grandfather says, everybody got a story, and today we have another. Excellent Philadelphia story. Widely regarded as the world's first modern day graffiti artist. He pioneered tagging and the hip hop culture. His name is Darrell McRae, and today we're gonna hear his story. Darrell, welcome to Wit or Without. I'm glad to be here. This culture took place in 1965 when I was sent and definite term at YDC. YDC is a state facility for juvenile delinquents. Right, before we get there, you were born in nineteen fifty-three? I was born in nineteen fifty-three, November twelfth, in Brewerytown. You were raised by your mom and grandmom? I was raised by my mother, my grandmother, my grandfather. But your father wasn't around. No, my father wasn't around. What was Brewerytown and where you were born like in the fifties? Coming up with my family, my grandparents were like religious fanatics. We stayed in church. I can remember sometime every day of the week. My grandfather loved the Lord. mother was a my grandmother was a usher and we stayed in church a lot. And I have that really haven't any say so about my situation because they took care of us. My mother worked and she went to school. As we got older in the church, I got tired of going to the church, listening to the sermons on the Sabbath days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, sometime a day or two during the week. And I got to the point where I told my grandma I'm not going I don't wanna go to church today. And she said, Put your clothes on, let's get rid of the leave 'cause our ride will be here soon. When she said that one downstairs, not the door. And I started hanging out with the bad guys in the neighborhood. The bad guy four eight, you think? I was about nine years old. How many siblings? You're one of how many? I'm the middle child, a younger brother and older brother. I sang with the bad guys and there was about ten of us. there was a factory, the Academy Warehouse. Like right in the back of our house, right by the tracks, and there was tractor trailers, there were freight trains, there was the warehouse, and man, we used to rob them freight trains, them fr them tractor trailers of that warehouse at will. You know, that money was coming in so fast and so much. that was exciting life to me as opposed to sitting in church all day and every day. How do you end up at Y D C the Youth Development Center? 'Cause I stopped going to school. we was just we wasn't just robbing freight trains and track the trailers and the warehouse. We was robbing stores, stealing cars. You know, we was breaking in stores. We was like just that was a lala. That was a I'm also the beating my own drum, it was about ten of us, and we got locked up one by one. And I I had a whole lodger list of charges. When I'm front of the judge, the first thing he asked me was, what does his school record look like? Your Honor, he's been suspended quite a few times. He's been locked up for choice quite a few times. He's been locked up for a curfew quite a few times. He's not going to school. He has a lingerie for charges. And the judge looked there, look, looked at the record and looked down at me and said to Mr. McCray. We'll have to commit your son. Well, he got my attention. I looked at him, looked up at him and said, Commit your son, what does that mean, Your Honor? He said, We're gonna Mam Mama I'm giving you a d a indefinite term. That definite term means juvenile life. He didn't say that. He he didn't use those words, but that's what it meant. I was ten. Yeah. And when I got there they was damn they had have the places, they would had d life. A lot of kids could not be controlled. I was one of My grandma when that locked me up, my grandmom said, Hallelujah. She was so glad that they put me away 'cause I was away from harm. She was open down straight now. That was a w she had the way nobody killing me. 'Cause we was into so much stuff in the street, man. She was so glad I was put away so she could come see me. That was she was hard to they was saying like they gonna put they're gonna put you in boarding school but just why did she was run state. There was like a state penitentiary. We wore the same thing at the when they were saying with brown boots, brown pants, brown shirts and you know everything was one on eleven. Scary? I was this is in September. I was ten I turned eleven in November. I wasn't scared, it was a playhouse. It was a joke. Two things happen to you and at Y C that that stay with you the rest of your life, right? Yeah. Yeah. You get a nickname. Well, what happened was I was placed in C unit and C unit is the youngest unit at the is the at the institution. I was on C unit and a lot of times C unit was the last to go to the cafeteria to eat their meals. And a lot of times, when you go to the buffet line you get your p potatoes, your meat, you know, your your vegetables, your dessert, and at then you get your like a shoot, you get two slices of bread. And a lot of times I got to the Get my bread, the bread wasn't necessarily fresh. After four or five times of that, after defined disorder, I took matters in my own hands. I walked to the back of the kitchen and I asked the kitchen workers who's in charge. And they said, Mr. Swanson. And I said, Where can I find Mr. Swanson? His office right there. So I goes and knock on this door and I heard his loud voice from within. Yells, Come in. Open the door comes in. He looked at me up and down. He said, What can I do for you? I said, Mr. Swanson, my grandma make the best corn but in the world. And I was wondering, would you consider making some cornbread for us, possibly for a trial basis? He looked at me like I was crazy. First thing he asked was, who gave you permission to come into my kitchen? I said, nobody. He said, you think he can walk into my kitchen without permission and demand that I write make you some cornbread? I said, no, I said, make us some cornbread. He said, no, I want to hear that crap. Get the fuck out of my kitchen. Take a walk. You got no permission to be in my kitchen. Take a walk. I stood there in disbelief like he responded. He said, I'm not gonna ask you again. Get your ass out my kitchen. So I left. Two days later, I came back later. I came and talked to him again. I was, Mr. Swanson, can we talk, man? I'm not trying to get on your nerves on me. He said, Man, you really wasted my time getting on my nerves with this cornbread bullshit. You come in and there's gonna be something. Get the fuck out of my kitchen. You really wanted that cornbread. Yeah. Persistent too. Yes, I was persistent. So I left. Two days later I came back to his kitchen again. The kitchen workers in the kitchen. The kitchen worker seemed to come and say, Hey, Mrs. Swanson, your boy's here. She said, My boy, who, your boy cornbread is here. He turned around and see me coming in. He said, Cornbread, come here. I said, Mr. Swanson, let's talk about me breaking us some cornbread, man. I ain't asking too much. And Mrs. Swanson came over me and grabbed me about my shouldered, should shoulder. Damn it, lift me off. He was a big black dude. Damn it, lift me off the floor. He came into my kitchen to rest me about some damn cornbread. Let's go. And he led me out the kitchen to the big doors for everybody sat at. And they come out in the g whereby in the cafeteria, in a loud voice, he hollers to my unit counselor, Mr. Love. Everybody got to grasp the sand, everybody attention. I was like, what's going on? Keep this cornbread out of my kitchen. And threw me on the floor. Everybody started teasing me, cornbread this, cornbread that, cornbread this. But nobody got better nicknames than gang members. So when they caught me cornbread, they stuck and it stayed. I go write cornbread in the back of my shirt. Now Seventy years later, we're still calling you corporate. Yes. But see, my sister used to send me poetry books. And I used to write poet poetic love letters. I used to take a line from the poetry books. my brother Lorenzo, he used to communicate with his girlfriends by love letters. And I used to intervene his love letters and read And he was like getting my word, like, man, don't still open my mail, man. You got a problem. I like reading the letters, trans communication between me and the different girls. I write passages down. And when my sister Dalma read me poetry books, I fell in love with the poetry. And then passes down from my brother's love letters. So when the game members get letters from their girlfriends, sometimes they wasn't high a lot of they didn't feel good about what they read. And they'd be like, this bitch you want some bullshit. man, what that CIS? I said, what's going on? She writing some bullshit, Corn Bread. She's writing some bullshit. I said, let me read the letter. Let me read the letter. I said, let me answer for you. What you gonna say? I read it to you first. Alright, well do what you do your thing home. So I write poetic love letters that I got remembered from my brother. I got up the book and what I had on my own mind. I'd never read it to him and he'd be captivated. cornbread, that sound good as shit, man, I like that. I wanna I wanna copy that man and send it to my girl. You can copy it, but yeah, it's gonna cost you. Cost me what? I want two canned sodas, two bags of chips, and two candy bars. So we'll got around that. Cornbread write letters. All the gang members came to me would write letters for So when I see the gang members names on the walls, I would write cornbread next to it really big. Every time I seen a guy and the wall was infested gang names on both sides of the walls. I write cornbread here, cornbread. Every time you seen a gang name, I write cornbread. And before you knew it, all you seen was cornbread. So I run out of space. I started writing the cafeteria and the gym, the visiting room and church, and the commissary and the ministration, nursing station. And I I started I just started really writing cornbread all over this place. And the authorities got fed up for my disregard for authority and gave me an ultimate to clean it up. I said, I'm not cleaning shit up. You don't bother the gang members right then names, why you bothering me? Look at the mess you made. If you don't clean the cornbread, we're gonna put you ass in a hole. I said, take me to the hole. I'm not cleaning the shit, take me to the hole. And they gave me a sort of okay bread. That was respect. I I'm in a hole. So the guy who brings me my f bring me my food platter, I said, bring me a marker. He brings me a marker. I palms out the hole. So I didn't fight nobody. I didn't steal anything. I was in and out the hole within forty eight hours. And they let me out, they seen a hole all messed up. Hey see, you got a problem or something, man? I mean, who does that? Who's gonna run right in their name? What's what's that about? I got back in the population, I start writing cornbread all over the place. They couldn't control me. They made a recommendation, I see the psychiatrist. I go see the psychiatrist. The psychiatrist tells me. I come to work, man, I walk down the hall and I say, All this cornbread crap. What is this about? Why are you writing this cornbread? Then I would write I was reciting my poetry to gang members, social workers, to teachers, the nurses, the counselors. And they looked at me as something different was I didn't talk gang talk. You stayed away from being in gang. You were independent. Game gang members, I was independent, but gang members was my friends. They were all my friends, right? And they would say, Corin, Ben, you get out, man, make sure you come down up here and drink some wine with us. I was the only person who had the rep with gangs. I can walk over the city. I never caught the bus going anywhere. I walk everywhere to different gang neighborhoods, writing my name. When got out. When I got out. So I talked to spent two years in there. You get out. Close to two years. You get out. So when I went to when I was talking to the psychiatrist, I had established reputation amongst the people that ran the place. They gave me a special accolades, special attention. I talked poetry. I didn't talk gang talk. I didn't talk ignorant. I wasn't arrogant. So I got special attention. Attention. I love the tension. I love the what I do. So you come out and you start doing that everywhere in Phil. I came home, I told the psychiatrist that he hadn't seen nothing yet. He said, What's that supposed to mean? I said, I'm gonna set the world on fire when I get out when I get out of here. He said, Meaning what? I said, Meaning you gonna read about me. So I came home in nineteen sixty seven. I started walking bus routes all over the city. I was a solo artist. I didn't walk nobody I didn't know nobody. What I did in the Zern, I bought to the street. I just started writing my name this bus route, this bus route, this bus. So night I go to the buses and the bus barn, I write my name all inside the buses. The next thing I come to the bus barn, I write my name on outside all the buses. I mean they talked about me like they talked about Jesus. It was unheard of that everybody would read one name. All over the city. All over the city. Who's Cynthia Custis? Cynthia Custis, you d you got you got you know you know your history, don't you? Come on, man. Yeah. Cynthia Custis was the eighth grade I met when I came home, I didn't I like me they liked me in the fifth grade. I didn't see the sixth grade or the seventh grade. I came home in the eighth grade and it was two weeks to start up before the school for the for the term started in school. I was at eight eleven in in mister Cushness class. What school? Strawberry Ransom. In middle school. Yes, junior high. And he said, We had a new student in our class, his name is Darryl McCrae. And I think we have a good start, starting with Daryl. And while he was talking, introduced me to the class, I was scanning the room, looking for the prettiest crowd combined. And I found in the back of the class, s sitting alone with a chair next to her, a vacant seat. There were several other vacant seats, but I chose to sit one in next to her. Next to Cynthia. Next to Cynthia. I started talking to her, I started talking poet shit. She looked at me like I was crazy. And she wasn't paying me no attention, right? Cynthia was a highly intelligent individual, pretty as she wanted to be. I wasn't making no ways with my poetic words. But I liked her. So I started walking into her class. school was out, I would wait and we would meet and I would walk her home. And I would walk her to the corner of a block. But she never took me to her front door. So she said, Well that is the way we end that. And she would hug me and you know, kiss on the check, pu peck on the cheek. She go that way. I go back this way. So the route that we walked, I got misses spray paint. I start writing, Cornbread Love Cynthia. She just wanted to be my friend, no more. She got my well to do family, most likely to succeed. And her family really didn't approve the likes of me. I can never walk her to her door. Which meant I didn't get too far. I really didn't know where she lived. So I started writing Cornbread Love Cynthia, the route we took to go to her house. I would hold her hand and I say, Look, Cynthia, cornbread loves you, baby. She says, You know how Miss Cynthia is there is? And I don't know no cornbread. She only knew me as Daryl. She didn't know cornbread. She didn't know cornbread at all. I wasn't making that connection. I said, hold on. I said, Cornberry loves you, Cynthia. When did she make the connection? Did she ever? No, I made the connection. She said she would say, Well, stop telling me cornbread loves Cynthia because I don't know no cornbread. And there's a million Cynthia. Cornbread loves another Cynthia, not me. I wasn't making that connection. So one time I went to her house, she said, bye Daryl. She hugged me and she walked that way. I went this way, then I went back. That way, cars parked on the street. I saw Doug mining cars. And she was going to the house and other cars and follow where she lived at. She took a key out. Went in the went down the house. Now I know where she lived. That night I came back with a stick of chalk. One on the front door. I use chalk but you can always watch that off. I wrote Cornbread Loves Cynthia and I left. On her door. I left cornbread loves Cynthia on the door. And she came to work the next day. She was like, That bastard. I knew exactly what you were talking about. I said, What are you talking about? That bastard came to my house and wrote his name on my wall, Darryl. I said, What you talking about? Cornbread. He wrote Cornbread, love Cynthia. I know you knew cornbread. I know you knew cornman talking about you don't know you know you know there's a million cornbreads a million million Cynthia's and you're not the one he how if you're not the one he left, why'd he come to your house and write his name? I'm playing with a picking brain, right? I don't know no cornbread. Why he come to your house, Cynthia? Why just come in your house, Cynthia? I don't know why it's 'cause you're dealing with him. No, I'm not. So now she's and everybody knows that she's the cornbread that that she's the Cynthia that Cornbury loves, but nobody knows who cornbread is. And I kept it but just went on for weeks. And one day I'm walk I was careless. Cornbred loves Cynthia was written on my Lucy Bonda book. And I I normally concealed that. She went like this. And seen Corbyn, she said, Daryl. I looked at her. She said, Your book. And I knew she seen it. She said, give me the book. I said, You can't have my book. No, give me the fucking book. Give me the book. We toss them for the book. She snatched the book from me. She said, You been writing this? I started smiling. I see, I write that. She said, my now we walk home. She said, Come on. Takes me to her house. Go to her house. Come on in the house. Coming out, she told us soap Baba Zone, you want something to eat, you want something to drink? I said, give me some water. She gave me some water. She said, No, maybe some popcorn. We're talking it. She all chucked me up again. I didn't get that before. Somebody took the key in the door. Her mom comes in. And I got my sunglasses on my hat turned to the tide, I got a hanging jump in my back pocket, my pants roll up. I'm just like a gang member. I'm a straight jitterbug. Cynthia, what is this? Call me at this. Mom, this is Darryl. Well what is he doing here? He won't me on from school, Mom. Come on, why why you acting like that? No, no, no. She said, come on. She said, she was finna put me out. She said, no, I'ma let Dub see this. I said called me at this. I'm not dub see this. I said, who's dub? Dub is my husband. He should be here any minute now. Seconds later, somebody key in the door. Mr. Dub walking through the house. She she wants to do Dub, you got to see this. What? Come here. Look at that. He looking at she said, no. What is he doing here? That's my friend. Your friend. Come on, let's go, man. I said, where we going? You going out my house. Let's go. I felt I felt so hurt, man. I was embarrassed, man. I got up and I left. So Cynthia started coming to my house. I mean, she would be home. School's out three o'clock. She's home by three thirty. Now she coming away or get out of school at three o'clock. She's coming home four thirty, quarter to five. And they did not want me to impregnate her because she's more likely to succeed. Cynthia has retired from a pharmaceutical plant which is a supervisor, a highly intelligent, born again Christian, moves like this to see they do well and they didn't want me starting her growth. So they moved. They moved? Yeah they moved. Well they w then they moved to my account. They was I think they were gonna move anyway. But they moved and forbid me to ever come to the house again. That was the end of Cynthia. She she stopped calling me. Mm-hmm. I stopped seeing her. I started writing cornbread of Cynthia. But everybody thinks that that's what it all started. It didn't start there. It started beforeum school. And I just started writing cornbread everywhere. My name that my name appeared so many places. I was a new phenomenon. That's like sixty nine seventy. Mm-hmm. Sixty seven. Cornelius Hosey dies. And we we'll get to that. We get to that. It was unheard of that everybody would read one person's name. Cornbread. Name was they talk about cornbridge. But nobody knows it's you yet. Let me tell you what happened. Let me tell you what happened. Okay. I'll write a my name. Every it's just unheard of that everybody would read one's name. Everybody seen the name Corn. I was a new phenomenon. The war of Vietnam was just over with. The ra the a lot of things that happened, the rise of the Islam, the nation of Islam, the Vietnam War, a lot of black things going on and in the midst of all that, Cornberry was born and he started paying his name everywhere. I got a job at Nabisco. I worked in over? I worked I was I I went on Oreo line, I make Oreo cookies. I'm going to work one day. Always by the newspapers to read while I ride. On the front page of the newspapers I read Cornbread is shot to death. My heart pound. What is the another cornbread? Story on page three. I turned to page three. This what I read. The fantastic career of Philadelphia best known graffiti artists came to a following Sunday outside a hotel and bar. Here I am on this bus on my way to Nabisco reading about my own death. I said no, no. The person got killed, guess what his name was? Cornelius. Cornelius. So they just put They meant Cornelius laying in the street, people walking by. Corn has got shot, or corn got killed, or Corn is dead. The media aud automatically assumed that the coin short for Cornelius was a coin short for cornbread and erroneously announced my demise. They still didn't know you as cornbread Daryl McCrack. They didn't know that. No. So I knew that nobody comes back from the dead. And I also knew that if I didn't do anything to dispel that bad information that they printed, my name was going to his grave with him. My legacy. Everybody would have thought, You're gone. Nobody comes back from the dead. What'd you do? I pondered countless possibilities and I came to the conclusion. I called the newspapers and I called the newspapers. I said, You gotta get your article right, buddy. You say, Article right? Who is this? And what are you talking about? I said, This is cornbread and I'm not dead. Mm-hmm. He said, we don't need no imposters. Cornbread is gone. Cornbread is dead. He's let cornbread rest in peace, man. We don't need nobody calling here talking about Cornbridge this and Cornbridge that he's gone. Let him rest in peace. Click. I called them right back. I said, you better get your article right. I will tear this town up. You better find something else better to do and let Cornbridge rest in peace. Click, I wasn't getting through to the media. They wasn't listening to me. Just the inquiry, daily news, poll. I was in three different I was in three different newspapers, right? So that became a prescription for disaster. I knew I had to do something not bizarre but amazingly bizarre to snatch the media attention to make them understand that I was still around. And I decided to go to the zoo and bomb out the whole fucking zoo. I go to the zoo. You live there. Not too far away. I go to the zoo and they was packed in the zoo in this hot afternoon. They was packed in like sardines. And that my paintman jacket. And I knew better than to try to write my name anywhere, 'cause anybody called the police and I got a lock off for that. So I knew that I had to come back to the zoo either before the zoo opened or after it closed. So on my way out, I see all these people mudding around this pit taking pictures. So I'm curious to know what what's going on over there. I goes over there and this guy's got the elephant trunk in his hands. They taking pictures of this guy. He's grandstanding for the camera. He pulling elephant ears. They taking pictures. He against the elephant torso. Everybody taking pictures. So this lady says to him, Aren't you afraid the elephant's gonna hurt you? He said, No, ma'am. The elephant came from the circus. He's used to be around people, he's not gonna hurt anyway, he's careless. When I heard that, I said guy down in the zoo, I mean down in the pit with the elephant, elephant's not gonna do nothing to him. I said, I could be down there too. And he won't do nothing to me. He came from there so he's hurt nobody. And I can tag his ass. So I left. I came back the next day with a big bag of peanuts. And I throwing the peanuts at the elephant, hey you big guy, how they treating you here? He taking a trunk, eating my peanuts, looking at me, talking to him, throwing some more peanuts. Hey feetin good at big guy taking the trunk, eating my penis. What's your name, big guy? I was talking to this elephant, he eating and talking to him. I come back the next day. I found some more penis, I'm talking to him. When I came back the next time, it was six thirty the next morning. I went to the back of zoo, it was six thirty in the morning. I went clam in the back of the zoo, clam over the fence, came out there the closure where it was where the pit was at, hopp into the pit, Walked up to him to the spray paint. Before it opens. Yes. You hopped the fence or something. Yes. Mhm. So I start shaking the cane. Click click click click click click click click. He turns around, he looks at me. He knows exactly who I am. They don't forget. They don't forget. Elephants don't forget. I walk right up to him, I go, Cornbread lives. Other side, cornbread lives. With spray paint. Spray paint. So I was kinda upset with myself that I went through all this to do something that it took me less than thirty seconds to do. But nonetheless I got the job done. Come out the pit, the whole zoo was at my top. Somebody was in that zoo and see what I was doing and called the cops. Now if I came out that pit and much greater the exit, I'd have got away. But I bomb out the zoo. Somebody called the cops. By the time I finished, I get to the exit. Hoop, hoop, hoop all these cops posed up. There's no place to run but back in the zoo. Cop put his hand on the gun and said, Don't you fuckin' run. I don't wanna chase you. Don't run. Turn around. Put your hands up in there. I put my hands up in there, they came and took me in custody, took me down to the police station, and I got locked up. The whole time I'm there, I'm trying to wrestle us up half the night, trying to get the zoo before they open. I'm tired. Every five minutes, every ten minutes. Cop come down to the holding cell where the juvenile's at. Which one you guys is cornbread? I said, Hey officer, what's up? Kid, give me an autograph. This is all day long, man. That's all day long. So the guys on black said, Well, Corm, what the fuck is you got a cop's ass? You go read about me. Article come out, I read the article by article. Now this is the first sign of me setting the world on fire. Pictures of the elephant? Man, I was so in love with reading about myself in the newspapers. I would have done anything to appear in the newspapers again. You love the attention. I love the attention. That's a that's all this about an intention. My mother and grandmother died and my home was a long home. Nobody f washed my clothes, nobody feed for me, nobody cleaned the house. I used that writing my name as therapy because I didn't want to deal with the suffering of losing my mother and my grandmother. And I would write my name day and night, every day and everywhere. Still in high school? seventy are you still in high school? Yeah, we're still in high school, right? you go to jail for what happened at the Yeah, they they locked me up, but the d the cop the judges they had a record of who I did and what I at Y D C and they knew that I wasn't a gang person. I meant no harm and graffiti's not sinful behavior. So they put me in the I w I was sentenced to a community based program. Mm. Whereas, you be locked up but you're allowed to come home. You went to school, you got one we needed fifty points to get out to the program. You went to school, you got one point. If you went to school and went to work, you got a point and a half. And I was up to like seventy points beyond my discharge because it was about to me to stay there. I had a place to come home to clean sheets, I could eat what I wanted, clean clothes, as opposed to going home. I had to struggle a lot. There's no electricity home, there's no heat, there's no food, there's no mom, no grandmom. I'd rather stay in jail. I come I go to work every day, go to school every day. I come to school and say, Look at cornbread with jail clothes on Remember that right? Right. He was in high school with me. And It was really rough, man, and I used that as as as vandalism. I Simon Gratz. And I use that as therapy to write. Nobody can contend with that. I I did this all day, all night, every day, everywhere. Did you graduate? Yes, I graduated. Right. Tell me about Jackson Five. Well, after reading myself in the newspapers with the elephant, I knew that I wanted to be in the newspapers again. And I knew that there had to be something bizarre. You can't just write the name on walls. No, that's not that's yeah. You gotta do something bigger, better at the zoo. Right, exactly that. Well Georgie Woods announced on the radio that the Jackson Five was coming to town. And Who's Georgie Woods? He was a Brayway. He's a d DJ, yes. Okay. Yes. And he said if you wanted to interest the fans could come out to the tarmat and get take take picture with the Jackson Five, take pictures and get to get the autographs and meet and greet, that type of thing. But such was not the case. It was a like a publicity stunt to promote the show. And that goes down there. Must have been about fifty, maybe sixty people. It wasn't like it is now. You could not at all. Nine eleven man. And then no totally different. Totally different. The Beatles came to town, the Rolling Stones came to town. I mean, everybody came down there tarmat, meeting, greet, shake hands, take pictures and a hug and you can do that then. If you knew the schedules, you can see these guys. Right, exactly. And the plane came in, it arrived, people sitting there waiting. And idols for a moment, steps let down. Michael Jackson told the top of the stairs. Well, do it kiss everybody. Everybody went ballistic screaming a hollow and total chaos. Michael, Tito, Jack and Jamie, Jimmy teenagers too then. Right. Michael, Tito, Jermaine, Jack, and Marlowe came down the steps. And they were going through the crowd, screeping a hollering, total chaos. I mean, out of control type shit. In the midst of this confusion, I zipped up the steps, hold on to the rail and write cornbread on the jet. Right on. No one saw it. Nobody said screaming and holler. I come down the steps, go into the terminal, get myself a seat. And I waited this turn, which plane take off. I waited about an hour. Plane backs out. Go this way this turn. The faster went, the ladder became airborne. I plane took off. My name was on it. Cornbread's in the air. I had a mental orgasm. I was I was no more good, man. I was I was no more good. And I knew those two acts could never be duplicated. That made me the E. Lee graffiti artist of the world. Well. So before you end that s story, 'cause there's a second part. Very interesting part. But who's with us today? Who'd you bring to this? We got Doctor Cool, number one. He's like my brother. Doctor Cool. Yeah, his mother, I remember I was over his house hanging out and then I I left about four o'clock in the morning. Say hello, Dr. Cole. Hey, how's everybody? Let me say something. Go ahead. I got locked up standing on the corner waiting for a bus because I fitted the description of someone who just robbed someone. Cops came and locked me up, put handcuffs on me, man, and locked me up and gave me a charge. His mother came to the police station and said, Y'all got the wrong person. He just left my house. Him and my son are close friends. Let him go. He ain't bob nobody. He's with us in the my house. I'll never forget that. Wow. That's Dr. Cool. Well. Dr. Cool, hello. How you doing? Well, on a on the feedback, getting back to the Cornelius thing, I remember when they had Time Fox. You might know Tom Fox. He was the publisher newspaper writer. Newspaper article writer of Delhi News. Okay. So he got in touch we got in touch with him because he w we said that cornbread the art the newspaper article said that Cornbread was dead. So me and Titty we went to Tom Fox. huh. Yeah. So we went to Tom Fox and told him cornbread is not You know, so he was asking us questions about what happened. I said, nah, cornbread ain't dead. Cause he was kept saying Cornelius, and we didn't even know no corn. I didn't even know no Cornelius. Who the hell is Cornelius? Cornelius. I said, the real cornbread is not dead. You know, so T and I we kept expressing about cornbread. Cornbread is not dead. Cornbread is still alive. Matter of fact, you just got to We're just talking cornbread. So it was Are you Earl? No, I'm not cool. Earl's a different guy. Earl is a different guy. I didn't met Earl. Okay. I met cornbread. No, I met Titty first. Then I met cornbread. And I met cornbread on a humbug. I met cornbread on a humbug. I think y'all had a social that night is No Wiz and Wiz and Vision Gino's. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, y'all was in Geno's. Gino's hammering? Yeah. No, Kentucky Fried Chicken. Yeah. Yeah, that's Kentucky Fried Chicken. That's not good. Yeah, but Gino's is first. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway. They took over when they defunct. I didn't know that. Yeah, so anyway, I was just sitting down in the table. That was the running back from the Colts. Who, Gino? Gino. That's Gino, whatever. What's it what the hell's that guy's name? I didn't know that. From 1950. get out of there. What? Go ahead, tell the story. Colonel Sanders started. No, no, no. Well, anyway, I wrote my name on the desk. On the table. On the table I met. Dr. Cool, number one. So I still was sitting there and he came past He said, who's that? I said, that's me. And he I said, who's you? He said, cornbread. And that and from that day on we was riding high and low. And you're still together. Seventy years later. And Titty checked on it. It was cornbread, Titty, and Dr. Google. No, Earl. Earl came in later. Earl came in the 70s. Alright, let's finish that story with Jackson 5. Right. Because that that plane goes to LA. Yeah. And then what happens? Well nothing kinda good, kinda not good. it goes to California, it makes it l it makes the news. Hollywood I don't know if Hollywood Hotshots got a taste of it about the movies Cornbury Earl on Me, but I do know a book of Cornbread Earl on Me came out based on the Hog Butcher. You could not have told me I gotta exploit it in a lot of ways. 'Cause I was up and coming, I knew phenomena. I was like a street star. And you could not have told me anytime my name was printed, they were talking about me. Mm-hmm. But when they talked about cornbread and earl, that's not a coincidence. There's only one cornbread and earl. And you couldn't have told me that wasn't our story. But come to find out that there was a cornbread and earl from New York. And for the longest I never believed it. I thought they were just exploiting me. And maybe it took maybe about two years ago, maybe about five years ago, that I come to accept terms. I had nothing to do with that. I was not being exploited. There is a cornbread and Earl from Chicago. That's the world biggest coincidence I've ever seen. Was that the story then of the guy sitting down with you with the lawyer and and all that? What where's that story coming from? Well I thought that yeah, I I thought that that that movies came in and they exploited me, man. And they was trying to take advantage of me. you're not gonna take advantage of me and I have no say so about it. I came up with that, but all in all No, that had nothing to do with that. Okay. Well we all thought that you had something to do with it because when the movies first came out, it was a gang of us And we went to see it because we thought that the film was based on cornbread earl and whoever me was whoever me was. I I thought my question is who's me. So we all it was about thirty or forty of us. We went to the Fox Theater. Lawrence Fishburne's in it. Lawrence Fishburne. Who played cornbread was Jamal Will. From the Lakers. Right. So we all assumed and I can I can I can concert. I mean I can say that if he thought it was the movies about him, we all did. Right. We all thought the movie was about cornbread and whatnot. That wasn't just his ego. No, you couldn't have you couldn't have told me you couldn't have told me that. What movie you go to? The Fox, 17th of Market. Seventeenth of Market. Yeah, you couldn't have told none of us that this movie wasn't about cornbread because we all assume because like he said, it was Cornbread earl and we knew you know who was writing on the walls and when we heard them names you couldn't even convince nobody to say the movie wasn't about cornbread. So it was about 40 or 50 of us. Then we get in there, we sitting back eating popcorn, drinking sodas, eating hot dogs, and then it came on. And then we seen the real deal. And it was about. It wasn't about what we thought. Right. But it overall it was a good pitch. That's mid seventies? Right? No, I came back in seventy five. Yeah. So what happens, what are you doing in the seventies? You have Glenn Mills yet? I had a had had a job working at Glen Mills. I was about format, I was a G E D instructor and at that time Wilson Good, the graffiti in the graffiti in Philadelphia went on unchecked for seventeen years. Philadelphia looked like a war zone, looked like a look we look at another it became the graffiti capital of the world. It's before all the murals and all that stuff. I'm responsible for the murals because I went to Wilson. I w he was running for mayor and his top priority was to rid the city of graffiti that turned away city business. And car I was driving was like really messing up, you know. sometimes I start, sometimes I wouldn't start, sometimes I'd start running in the middle of the road and I never got it fixed and I was trying to hitchhike to come to work. I was coming to work with late. I was missing days and there was there was conversations about me being terminated. Mm-hmm. When it got back to me. And Glenn Mills. At Glen Mills. Because I was a lot of tartiness, a lot of lateness, missing days. Rather than have them terminate me, I resigned and asked for a letter of recommendation. And they said, no problem, they gave me a b I resign, they gave me letter of recommendation. And Wilson Good was running for office. Mm-hmm. And Philadelphia looked like a war zone, graph he was everywhere. And I used to always say, I start this shit. And they said, if you start this shit, you need to clean this shit up. So I went to Will Some Good. And I said, Your honor, I would be a great a great asset to your program if you gave me a job. He looked at me like I was crazy. Gave you a job. Give you a job doing what? I went to Anti Graffiti Network. He said, Are you an artist? I mean, what do you do? Who are you? I had my scrapbook with me. And I said, This is who I am. You looking at scrapbook. He said, Corporate? I said, How you doing, your honor? He said, You got the job. You got the job. I want you down here Tuesday at ten o'clock at the press conference. I want everybody to know I got you working with me. And he hired me, right? Smart. Yeah. He gave me the job and I said, Well, where should we start? You can start in your neighborhood. You can go ten blocks north, east, south, and west. And it took us some years. 'Cause he's from Philly. Yeah. And he went to Penn, right? Yeah. So he knew cornbread. Right. I mean cornbread got me in a lot of I always got jobs to work with bad kids who who who knows how to work with bad kids and the bad kids. Mm-hmm. Right? So I had the job to work with bad kids. I got the job and we cleaned the city up, man. Today Philadelphia is the mural capital of the world. So how how did you go about doing that? Clean it up and getting it. Well I mean that was all your idea. we had we had field representatives from east part of the city mm and they would go ten blocks cleaning north, east, south and west. And then just start to multiply. Cleaning, cleaning, cleaning. I'll be Saturday afternoons and all that. Well, you when how did the murals come in? the Jane Golden, she came in as a artist and she decided to start coming by murals and we start putting murals up. And the mural program just started taking off and a beautiful murals became a place of the gravity that was there. It was just something beautiful. Today Philadelphia is the mural capital of the world. All over the everybody in the world knows about the murals of Philadelphia. I mean they've had what? King and Queen went and saw Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't that a big thing? Like the developer took it down. Well Jane Golden is like the queen of America if she asked me. I mean she helped people in jail. She got artists who was in jail who came and bought them home and their careers took off, man. And she helped me in a lot of ways, man. And she helped a lot of people. I mean she was like she's just a beautiful person. Those those murals that are painted, they're all painted from artists that are A one artists. You gotta mural of a Dr. J. I want a mural like him. I have a mural in Amsterdam, have a mural in in Sacramento, and Jane Golden is she's about ready to retire and before that I took time for granted. I never thought that she would step down. And now she's stepping down this year. Now I'm running around like a head, like a chick with his head chopped off, trying to find a place to get a mirror. I find the place for the mirror, I go to the guy who owns the property, I ask him for permission, and mirror arts don't pay nobody to put a mirror on the wall. I said, I will pay you personally, just give me permission to put it up. You got the permission. So we went in done some film work about two days ago about the mirror at 29th in Oxford. And it's gonna be a mural of you. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know who's gonna do it? No, but I hope it's the true artist. Mm-hmm. There's a mirror of me and a few other artists is I didn't like it because some of those guys was up there that don't deserve to be there. They got a mirror of Bobby Cool. Bobby Cool's been dead twenty-something years, you know. not to say they don't be supposed to be there, but if anybody I would think Doctor Cool should be there. Or Neptune or Doctor Hank or some of the guys who who originated what's it called. No better nickname than P Doctor Cool. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. No better nickname than that. And he got people pictures peop people with pictures on that mirror man who don't rightfully deserve to be there. I mean like I ain't got no problem with McCool Earl, but but when they made the movies corner Earl and me and Earl finally we wasn't getting paid, he joined the service. He was in the air for twenty two years. He was out of circulation for twenty two years. A lot of them guys kept their foot in the pedal, man, and then they was down for their crown. Right. And I mean those guys need to be recognized. So how long you worked with Merrick Cook? The whole time he was in? No, what happened was Tim Spencer was a director of the p Anti Graffity Network and when I was came to the we didn't we didn't we have the personality clash. He might have been the d executive p director of the program, but I was a star of the show. And when he said, I'ma let the whole world know I got you working with me at the press conference, you gotta be here Tuesday at ten o'clock, I was there. And that guy who wrote the article is an ex-graffiti artist, he loved my ghosts. And he said, Personally cornbread, I'm gonna write your article. I'm gonna give you some damn good ink. I said, Man, do your thing. And that article, he mentioned my name eleven times. He mentioned director's name once. And I had to he didn't like that. And he didn't put no time in the street. You know, he he was just he was hired by Wilson Good. Wilson Good hired me and I had got a lawsuit. I went out and bought it nice briefcases, nice suits, and I come to work look like a real professional. And he just he was thought some type of way. Anyway, he died from AIDS, right? And he came he came to my desk, he said, come in my office when I talk to you. And I say, What's going on? He said, Why don't you just pack your stuff and leave? I got up and close the door. I said, First of all, the same person hired you, he hired me. Alright? He hired Jane Golden, too. She runs the Maryland Arts. You don't have the right to tell me to leave. If he told me it's a different story. And we've been going through this thing back on forth, this personality class between the two of us. I don't like it. Leave me the fuck alone. stop saying little dumb shit to me. If I get fired by somebody, that's gonna be by the mayor, not you. Leave me the fuck alone. And I took my seat back on my desk again. Ten minutes later two uniformed cops come to the door. Cornbread. I remember when doing something said the cornbread, look. Two uniformed cops. Come on, cornbread, don't make a spectacle of yourself, man. You got to leave. He comes out this he come out his office. Get out. And he's the first person in my life I ever seriously considered hurt. I left. And when I got out, I lost that job. That job was custom made just for me. He knew it. And he cut my legs from underneath me. And I started selling drugs. I started selling drugs. In the 80s. Yeah, and strung myself out like a research monkey. I was done. you start using. I started heroin, cocaine. You hadn't be till then. Huh? You hadn't until then. I mean you s just started after you get fired because you're just like Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I I could have took Madame and herded this dude and probably went to jail, but you know, I just The anger went. Yeah, I started using drugs. Right. And I was messed up for a lot of years and the the culture just started rising. My lazy rose with the culture, but I was in the subculture of substance abuse. And my barber used to cut my hair. And he's been my ear. Bridge, you gotta come back, man. You going back and forth to jail, man. You doing drugs, man, acting crazy, man. You got to come back. And I'd be in this going, I said sub, I don't wanna hear that shit, man. Just cut my hair. He keeps talking, Bridge, you gotta come back, man. Everybody talking about where's cornbread at and he said Bread, these people are coming to town, they put on this big show and they don't believe that I knew you. And I told them, I'm gonna bring cornbread with me. I said, why would you do that? He said, 'Cause they're gonna they're gonna give you five hundred dollars for showing up. I perked up then. I said five hundred that's a lot of money to me. Here's a five hundred dollars, he said, yeah I'm gonna give you a shave, I'm gonna give you a haircut, they're gonna give you some outfits. I can get my own outfits, I nobody trying to dr I know how to dress. And you gotta be sofa bread. I want you to look good, man. I'm gonna take you down there, man. And we're gonna do we're gonna bring you back alive, put you back on the map. So I said, Okay. I said you lying. They gonna come c come get you a limousine, Bread. I can get me that was food for thought. I wanna think I thought about this real long and strong. So on the day they come get me, it was a nineteen sixty four Chevy station wagon. Come up my block, Mm-mm mm mm mm mm the car rocking the music prayer now and he coming up slow and said, Poor in front of my door. Said, Take your father, come on outside. Tell me come on, let's go. My son by the house. Dad this guy's outside, this crazy car told me to come on. I look out through the windows. I go to the door. I said, Sir, park the car. Park the car. Come on, Brad. The show started. I said, Sir, park the car, man. I'm not gonna be nowhere. First. Park the car, come on in, and we're gonna take our time getting down there. come on. I said, come on, come on, I said, do what I asked you to do. He parked the car, comes in, we done got the talking, gave him something to eat. I'm trying to buy some time. I said, come on, let's roll out. The event was at twelve on carpet at the Hawthorne Recreation Center. Then just some time to get down there from Germantown. I had a corn with a Dutch and t-shirt on. Got a half an hour before you boy the show was at no guy to that. He pushed the button. The car got the rocking and the music band and me taking the time just cruising up. Somebody said, that's cornbread. Pose two gave his event. Pose two from New York. He had a lot of kids, a lot of teenagers, man, from different countries from Europe. This paper's just packed out like this, man. When I got the car, They mobbed me like I was elvising somebody. Yeah, I'm still drug crazy. The people was coming at me like I was a superstar. I said, I don't believe this shit. And said my barbers. I tried to tell you, nigga, you better get your life in check. We going through the people's coming at me and we're trying to take my sign and work where I take my hand and shake my hand and take pictures and shit. I said, what? So we goes up to pose to apartment. He got mics, different magazines, hip-hop magazines. Corn Brid, where you been? Come on, man. What's that what's happening with you, man? Everybody talking about you, man. You never service. Nobody know you look like. And I'm saying, I don't believe that shit. Sub came up there, Breed, you gotta get yourself together, man. I checked in at the Femme Behavior Program. That was a drug we had. I saw my study years ago. Never looked at You went through rehab. Yeah. Thirty days, ninety days, something like that. And then never turned back. They they said you gotta do you gotta do ninety ninety. I said, What is ninety ninety? Ninety ninety to make ninety meetings and ninety days. I did better than that. Mm-hmm. I went to three meetings every day for ninety days. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's quite so The lure of coming back and being known, loving that, was stronger than the drug addiction. Yes, it was. Yes, I was going to New York. And then everything everything popped off in New York. Now the world has led to believe that New York kicked this off. Such is not the case. No, you started it, right? Yeah, I started it. And the hip hop culture. I'm the I'm the first element of hip hop, I'm a godfather graffiti. Now when I went to New York, I was real loud talking and I made a voice, I made a spectacle myself to let them New Yorkers know who I am, what I did, and what initially took place. New York always talk about the seventies. They never talk about the sixties. It is too young. Well New York's always growing us, aren't they? Well, you gotta figure out you gotta watch the movies American Gangster. Yeah. America Gangst is a true story. Denzel? With Denzel. And it tells you about what happened to New York in a time frame. In a time frame. What happened to New York was the epidemic. They had a pipeline of heroin straight from Vietnam to Harlem. There were so many addicts, I mean tens of thousands. I mean the the Bronx, New York, Manhattan, Queen, everything was strung out, man. There was no hip hop in the street. There was no graffiti jumping off. All that was happening in Philadelphia first. But Philadelphia was broke. And when I caught you migrated to New York, it migrated in the hands who fueled the drug trade. So when do you think you get sober? Like 95, 96, 97, something like that? Yeah. Do you mind talking about your son, Daryl? Yes, yes. My son Daryl that's my first born. He was born in nineteen seventy one. Okay. And we were close in the size twins. And he grew up. he liked to dance, he was a good looking kid, he was attractive, and a lot of girls was on his top. He started dealing with this girl whose boyfriend was a drug addict. I mean, drug dealer. He had plenty of money to get her nails done, get her hair done, you know, let him buy driver's car and buy her clothes and But he didn't treat her right. And because he's on this for he thought he owned her. And she rebelled, she would, you know, have him keys to her keys to her house. She asked for a key back and before he gave it back it when it got it when he got another key made. Daryl was at the bar, at this club, and they were together. And he done like his girl being with Daryl. One night they didn't come to the club. His girl wasn't there, and Darrell wasn't there. And the key that he kept, she didn't know, he used it to walk into her house. And there he found my son sitting in the recliner, sleep. While his ex-girlfriend was upstairs taking a shower. And my son was in the shower sleep. I'm sitting there in the recliner sleep. She just started going on him. She she heard the commotion, came downstairs, and Darrell gripped him up. I hold him in his hands, we don't even know much. Darryl, take him outside and beat his ass. He says, Go outside. And my son stretched him out. So he got up and started shaking his hand and I she said, Go ahead and leave because he's not gonna call his friends. They come back and everybody come back with some guns. Three weeks later, they meet at the at the at the club again. So we went to Darryl and said to him, Yo, what's up? And Daryl says, You know what's up? You ain't with anyway. You talk like you want someone, we can do this again. He said, Come on outside. So he goes outside, the guy passes him a gun. And my son's walking in front of him, waiting behind him. Somebody said, Darryl, he got a gun. And Daryl went to the door, pew, and took off. And I pulled up. I don't know. This guy running out of that screen, it's my son. And him and his buddy came out shooting at him. Pow, pow. He turns a corner and something said, He fell to the ground. There ain't been the guns on him. The guy turns a corner and said, here, that's the way you do it. That's the way you do it. I said, that's not the way you do it. Y'all motherfuckers cut it up for fucking nothing. That's not the fucking way you do it. Now I'm I'm I'm I'm upset because that set changed from a social set to a depth set. I'm not taking I was hustling pictures. I do pictures at cabarets, block parties, you know, bars, clubs. I've taken pictures, instant pictures, put in a f designer frame and you know, I said d these are real fast money. So Well you didn't know it was your son. I didn't know it was my son. That you witnessed. Right. So I can't take pictures at this set. So I goes up Columbia and started another neighborhood that I do Big Moose to Honey Hole, the Jervey Box. These are different clubs I'm taking pictures at, different bars that they pictures at. So it comes back the same way I came. And I seen yellow ribbons. And I felt his death. I don't know what it was. I just started crying. And I put my car to the side. I said, the fuck? What am I crying for? I go on home. I get in the house. My second son calls me. He's crying. I said, fuck Troy, would you cry? I'm crying, you crying. What the fuck are you crying for? He said, Down got killed dead. I said, wasn't that Lamar's lounge, was it? He said, yeah, how you know? The guy turned the corner and said, That's the way you do it. Just killed my son. I got death struck. I didn't care if he walked down the screen, it blew his brain down. I know exactly what it looked like. And I got one on the death mission. I got dressed like a bum. I told my clothes off. I got my put dirt on my face. I got me a cart, I got newspapers, cans, wood, trash, and my pistol in my back pocket. And I said, Troy, where they from? He said, they from Jeff 17th and Master. Dad, don't go down here, they're all killers. I said, doesn't matter what you do, it's how you do it, Troy. I was death struck. I go down there. I'm circling that they see me and don't see me. I circles the block. I'm looking for it. Scout killed my son. I don't see him. So I go down, I parked the cart in the middle of the block, I sit down. Roll me a joint. I seen the cracker girl walk by. I said, come here, girlfriend. She looked at me and kept walking. I put my money. I said, girlfriend, girlfriend. I showed her some money. She came back, what's up, old head? I said, come on, let's go have some fun. We got some good shit. how many pieces you wanna get? Let's go, cop. but I gotta give Chop his money. Chop just killed that nigga last night. I wanna give Chopp his money 'cause I don't wanna be paranoid and he's on my mind. Let me give him his money, let me scrain this out, we'll go somewhere and enjoy ourselves. We start walking around looking for Chop would cosp would possibly be. No chop. I said, Well you don't find Chop then I guess we're not gonna do nothin'. Come on, I'm gonna take you to we live at. She take me to his house. When no knock on his door, I said, hey, he hee hee hee, here's $20. what window? I take two noise, we cool, I'm good. I'll see a job some other time. Cool. She walked that way, and I walked that way there. I'm like, I came back with some binoculars. I parked and the next one the block, I turned my rearview man around, and I watched his house for two days, two nights. Nobody came in, nobody came out. I called my son Troy. I said, Troy, what's up with Chop? Dad, both of got locked up. Chop and Top, both of them got locked up. The way the world just came off my forgot my shoulder's man. I d I didn't care about consequences. I was death struck. That's a tough story. So we get into two thousands, the odds, and what what are you doing with your life? What what's going on? I traveled the world, man. I like I got I got a mural in Amsterdam, I got a mirror in Sacramento. Amsterdam's at the star that the what what's the museum there? I better start taking some my memory, man. My memory is terrible. Straight. Straight. Straight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And where else? Sacramento. Sacramento. I got a mural there. I just left Sac I just left South America. I went to Bagata. Wow. Right? And Anything up in New York or they don't want to they're not even They're shunning you up in Europe. They don't they they don't necessarily shun me but they don't like when I speak because I speak history is on my side and it's not on their side. They talk about the seventies, I talk about the sixties. You know. I went to Bogata, South America and the government used to treat the people in South America terrible. You know. And they use art as a weapon of choice. There's no other place in the world where the art is so plentiful, you can go miles turning corners. Art is everywhere. Wow. Then I thought it was big potatoes, me going to South America. Then I got a call from someone that wanna bring me to Lebanon. And that's in the Middle East. I don't know if I can make it to the Middle East. I can make it to the Far East. How about Knucklehead Donald Trump hooks up with Israel and they start bombing Lebanon. he's really a pain in my ass. Right? And then Ecuador found out that I was in Baccket Bug Bogata and the show was off the chain, he said, Well, we're gonna bring corn to Ecuador. Knucklehead goes steal the w oil from Venezuela. He th he gets in my way. He really gets in my way, you know. So in when is it that the documentary comes out about you? Philadelphia did that, right? Yeah. that documentary he did it was Cry of the City. Legend of legend of cornbread. the documentary was well put together because Sean Sean McKnight went out and rented the equipment. He bought even a state of the art equipment, well put together. But what he lacked in that film were people of this culture who made this culture what it is. They got my brother, they got my sister, they got my son. Cousins. My cousins. All in this film. Ex girlfriends. Ex girlfriends. You don't you don't miss a B D. No. Yeah. He got everybody in this in this film saying good things about me. It's more like a tribute more than a documentary. It's funny stuff. It's good stuff. Yeah. Great stuff. Had a new had a new camera and then it it looks good, but the contents of it was it was you need you got people like Doctor Cool, Neptune. Neptune Code. Yeah. People who say we we we practice this culture. They was not there. Excuse me for one minute. I'm not trying to cut you off, but it's one story I never heard you tell. let's hear it. Well about cornbreads. I was home, I don't know if you remember this, but I'm gonna tell you this. I was sitting home one day. I received a call from cornbrill. He said, you had never guessed where I'm at. I said, where you at? I'm down red turnable. You don't remember that, do you? I remember that. With felicity? my God. He don't forget nothing. He got it all. We just kind of went over that, but he got it all down. But we didn't get to yet. He got to it before you got to it. So anyway, I say, where you at? I'm down Red Eternal. I said, what's going on there? He said. I'm with these African people. Remember that? Felic Felicity come from Africa. She was a she was a white girl. White girl from South Africa. Yeah, South Africa. She a PA. Cornbread cook. I said, what? Cornbread cookies. I couldn't believe it. I I t I had to see it before my own eyes, because I didn't believe it. go down there, we're in Terminal. I see this guy with a chef hat on giving cookies away. I'm like, damn. We wasn't giving them away, we were selling them. Well I could have been like famous amos. That's what it was. But you know what that was about? I was so deep into substance abuse. Yeah. I thought I could I thought I could that's story that's a story you never tell. I've never heard you mention that. Yeah. You should start telling that. Yeah I should I was gonna bring it up. Well when he brought it up, you brought it up. Well then you got past the substance abuse and it was sort of Yeah, Velicity basement was a state of the art kitchen. Right. And we had cornbread muffins, cornbread sticks, blueberries, cornbread cookies, jalapeno peppers, blueberries, cheese. I mean she can cook her ass. But if whatever happened to her? She died. She died. David David O'Neill, he was a president of the Bed Internal Market. Yeah, he was in the he loves your stuff. Yeah, he always support me even to the day. Yeah. Even to the day. And he's around? He's still around. Okay. But you know, I was deep in those drugs, man, and I was go down there, man, and and and that her was so damn good, I would be like this. Yeah. Stop stop slabing from the mouth, you know. That was that was a that was Couldn't bleep. Yeah, the next famous amos. And then so that rent terminal didn't work out because of all that. You get clean, we're in the two thousand, you get the movie. There's a book too, right? Yeah, I have a book. That just came out. The movie was like two buttons. Corn cornbread by cornbread. Yeah. No, I didn't I'm gonna tell you these guys came from Paris, France, contacted me and he came to my house from Paris, France. So I said, Well talk to me. What what what does he want to do? We wanna introduce your handwriting into the font family. I said really. So yes. Y you you your legacy extends far and wide, man. And So this is a cornbread font. It's a cornbread font, yes. On the computers now. Yes. Wow. Yes. I did not that's one I did not know that. Yes, yes. Okay. So while we were while we were there talking, Maxi type. Go to MaxiType. Mm-hmm. Right. While we were talking, I was telling them about my escapades, all the things that I'd done, the places I'd been and and what happened. David says to Daniel, you believe this shit. He said, Cornbread, what's the chances of us putting your escapades in the Book of Fonts? All in one book. I says make it happen. In two years, it came back with the book and biting me to New York to the book fair. I seen the book, man. I was no more good. That book sells like good and black as crack. So we had a book signing in Paris, France. Yeah, I went online and sold out. Yeah. It sold out, man. I sat in one spot nine hours on a Friday. Sat in one spot nine hours on a Saturday when all the artists and writers knew that I was in Paris. They had core trains come to Paris. Man, we I saw I never sold so many books. I met so many artists and writers, man, from all over Europe, man. I go to so many different countries in Europe today. Mm-hmm. Like it's known tomorrow. This one's the biggest person you think you've met, or name drop. You have any name drops? I have I have two idols. Okay. I can't remember the guy. He's a he's a wankskey you said bug. No, no, no, I don't know Banksky. this a black guy. No, no, not Bankske. What is his damn name? He's an artist writer, black guy. Mm. I can't think of his name and I always I always do something and I can't remember. My I gotta start taking some pills, my memory. I do. But I know Cope two was one of Pose two of course pose two cope ket. He's the president the founder of the the Graffiti Museum in Florida. What you doing now and what's your future look like? Well, I do a lot of shows. I speak. I was live in a brewery town? Where do you live? I live in Tauga now. no. Right. I just recently left the hip hop museum in the Bronx. Mhm. went there the first time when I opened up, but did a tour over there. So we when it first opened up when they went there I was where we see when they had a tour. Then then about a week and a half ago and then God took me over there, came and picked me up and took me there. He said, Cornbread, the reason why you're here, because when they talk about doing the movie about your life. And I wasn't excited because I hear that. Because I hear that a lot. But he said what I always knew. He said every hip hop artist, every graffiti every graffiti artist owes you homage because you are the godfather of all of this. He started it. He started it. So they're making the movie? They told me that we got the people in the ordinary place. Mm-hmm. That's gonna film it, who's gonna find it, who's gonna strip it, and who's gonna shoot it. But you got to write it. Nobody else but you got to write it. So my suggestion to you is, do you own a computer? I said no, I'm so completely illiterate. Well go buy yourself a computer and become completely illiterate and write your book. And bring it to us. We're gonna have to format it to a film. Just do it. So I went to Wilmington, Delaware and I bought myself a Mactop a few days ago. Mm-hmm and I went there because there's no t tax, right? Here you can pay it fourteen sixty. Down there they'll put a call, they'll put the quest thirteen hundred. Same one. Same one. So I went down and I brought it home. It's still in the box. They set it up. It's ready to go. I gotta find somebody. Now I'm not gonna type anything, I'm gonna talk. And what I say, it prints. That's pretty cool. Yeah. That's where I meant. So we can expect a book. Maybe a movie, because that's always bullshit. But we can expect a book soon. Well, I write the book. Right. And the movies is follows the book. Yes. Doctor Cool. Doctor Cool number one. Number one. There's more than one. You know he's the first. All right, well that should be it. Doctor Doctor Cool the only one. Th the NO s stands for No Other One. Okay. No other. Do you know he's the first one to appear in the art gallery? No? Yes. Or the very first one. Maybe maybe we'll be doing an episode in season two with Doctor Cool. Yeah. Huh? You got it. You wanna say anything before we get out get out? Just glad to be here. You know? You gonna partake cheesesteak with us? Okay. With or without? That's the question. There you go. With onions or without? Without. Without. How about you? Yours? I'm with it. Let's do it. With with onions. With onions. Yeah, yeah. And cherry pepper. We're gonna make cheesesteak soon. Okay. Yes. I really appreciate you coming. Yes. Had a great time. Yes. You have a great Philadelphia story. Yes. I'm I'm glad I bugged you on here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very happy. Thank you very much for thank you very for having Thank you. We're out. Thank you for that. All right, thank you, Doctor Poole. According to Greek mythology, Paris abducted or eloped with Helen of Troy, triggering the legendary Trojan Wars. Dante barely knew Beatrice, yet his admiration inspired much of his poetry, culminating in his divine comedy. Shah Jahan Commissioned the Taj Mahal after Mumtaz died. Picasso's muses shaped the direction of modern art. And now you've just heard of Darrell McRae confessing his love for Cynthia or Cindy all over the city of Philadelphia. And that evolved into tagging his nickname everywhere and started the Graffiti Culture right here in Philadelphia in the sixties. Not New York, Philadelphia. What a cool story. So cool. We had Mr. Cool here today. Heard some cool language here today too. Talking about his son. The girls were on his top. Okay, I learned something new. The girls were on his top. The kids today think they have some lingo. What are we doing locking up ten year old kids? He's ten years old locked up in the system. That's gonna make a kid better? Ridiculous. He tagged the elephants at the Philadelphia Zoo. He tagged the Jackson Five Jet. All pretty cool. And now he has artwork all over the world. Daryl Cornbread McCray. What a great Philadelphia story. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed listening. Thanks, Wood or Withouters. Bradley Cooper. Have you ever tagged your name anywhere? Hopefully we'll see you at the kitchen someday, Bradley. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Hate saying this, but Hey, please follow, like, comment, share. Please. I'm out.