69-Remembering One Step Beyond with John Kenneth Muir on The Grassy Knoll with Vyz. (2004)

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That is the creepiest music, the scariest song I have
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ever heard associated with anything on any kind of horror
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movie or show or whatever. And that has a lot
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to do with the guests we have on today and
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the subject about which we will speak, and we had
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with this John Kenneth Muir. He is the author of
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many books about horror and sinnem and such, which is
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just a hoop. I hope beyond our show the last
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Friday along with at him go rightly. But He's what
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we're gonna talk about today is the book that he's
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written called An Analytical Guide Television's One Step Beyond nineteen
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fifty nine to nineteen sixty one. Again, it's one Step
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Beyond and mandate. It burned an indelible market in my brain.
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And John, thanks for coming on.
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Ah, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
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Keith oh Man, I'll tell you what. I don't know
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what it is that got me on this trail a
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while ago.
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It's probably having about him insomnia and just going down.
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Whatever you know roads.
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I'm bled, but I guess I had mentioned something when
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I had started using part of that theme song which
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is entitled fear Uh for an intro and then someone said, hey,
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you know One Step Beyond still floating out there, And
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then I started looking and and I came to your site,
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and folks, I don't tell you right now. The link
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is up there along with the link to the audio,
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and John's a website as well, which is John Kenneth
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Muir dot com.
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All that's on my homepage. But there's a a transcript
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of an interview that John did with John Newland, who
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was your Was he your host? And to the Beyond or.
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Something like that, that that did exactly your guide to
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the world of the unknown.
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Yeah, and uh, we're gonna talk about One Step yr.
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We're gonna talk about John Newland. But I'll tell you what, Uh, John,
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why don't.
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You set up a little brief historical synopsis of the show.
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Absolutely One Step Beyond, which was originally called alco of
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Prisons because back in the day of the late fifties
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early sixties, we had companies sponsoring a whole hour or
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half hour of entertainment on television as a post to
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today where we have various companies doing it. So One
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Step Beyond was originally called ALCOA Presents One Step Beyond,
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but It was a paranormal anthology that premiered in nineteen
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fifty nine, actually ten months before Rod Sterling's The Twilight Zone.
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And John Newland, who was a star of sort of
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golden age television, was not only the host of the series,
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but he actually directed all ninety six segments.
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Of the show.
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He was very aware of what TV was like at
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the time, and he had guest starred in a lot
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of shows, and he wanted to do for his show
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one step beyond, something very different, instead of focusing on
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sort of supernatural horror like later shows like a Night.
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Gallery that was a Starling production. Also, was it not.
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Absolutely like you got it?
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You know?
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Instead of just doing that, what he wanted to do
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was investigate the paranormal, and so all of his stories
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he wanted to have some foot in reality, and so
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when he narrated, he would say things like, what you
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were about to see, as a matter of human record,
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explain it. We cannot disprove it, we cannot know it.
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Was that sort of thing where that he actually tried
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to invest investigate all of.
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These paranormal events.
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And so in the course of the three years and
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ninety six half hour episodes that One Step Beyond was
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on television. You know, they did things like they did
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cases involving reincarnation, big foot sightings, They even did a
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biography of Peter Herko's a famous psychic at the time.
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They did, you know, crisis apparitions and premonitions and clairvoyants
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and automatic writing. And basically what made the show so
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special was not just this amazing and moody black and
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white photography, but the sense that the people who made
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the show tried very very hard to follow what the
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literature of paranormal studies were at that time. In other words,
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if there was going to be an apparition, they wanted
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to portray the apparition on the show as accurately as
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they could according to eyewitness testimony and parapsychological lore. So
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the show was not only scary, it was in a
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sense really based on fact.
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And one of the interesting things.
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About Akivas and I know you know this because you
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remember these episodes, but they would often tell a story
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on One Step Beyond, and then in the last five
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minutes of a half hour, they would bring on an eyewitness,
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the person.
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Who had experienced in the story.
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For instance, there was an episode called title Wave in
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nineteen sixty about a deaf woman who was not able
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to hear the call to evacuate when title wave was
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coming in, but she was rescued by a stranger who
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excuse me, who sort of hurt her calls for help.
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At the end of the show, they brought on the
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people involved. So it tried very hard to be accurate
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and realistic, and you know that just made it doubly creepy.
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So that's what one step beyond was. You know, three
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years ninety six shows some were shot in great Britain.
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You know, I could list the amazing actors who were
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in the show.
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You've got William.
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Shatner in an episode, Christopher Lee is in an episode,
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Warren Batty is in an episode, Claris Leachman, you know,
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great cast and great stories.
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No, I'm just thinking back now because, as we've said before,
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in those days of TV, there seemed.
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To be a number of actors who were the usual suspects.
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That turned up in almost every show, regardless of what
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network is.
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Then. Of course, ABC, CBS and NBC was still eight
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hundred pound gorillas, you know, right, and carried a lot
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of I guess story serials and I won't go into
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the whole thing.
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But I remember like ABC, you know, had just a
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whole bunch of stuff done by Warner Brothers.
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That was Chyenne and Sugarfoot.
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Rick and all this other stuff. And I mean some
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of these actors would just be in all these shows.
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And the same is true with One Step Beyond. In fact,
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John Newland himself, as you had said at the beginning,
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and we're spelling that any W L A N D.
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John as John John Newland also appeared.
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In other shows on TV.
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But the one thing that never fit when he played
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this kind of part because of what he did on
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One Step Beyond. He was a cowboy, you know, John
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Newlan pulling the gun and saying, Okay, you're trying to
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be a heavy. It just isn't work. And you know
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that was so out of cot but you I think
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was on your blog. I'm not sure, but somebody said
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it just perfectly about the way that Newlan presented himself
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as the host. He said he was like a funeral
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director who just found out that there was, like, you know,
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numerous fatalities on the interstate and they're bringing the bodies in.
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I wish I had said that. I don't know if
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I did. But that's a.
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Great well, isn't it.
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Oh, Because he just had the slightest little upturn to
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his mouth and his eyes just a bit.
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You know, it was like, you know, you weren't sure
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is he having you on?
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Is he not having you on?
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You know, you weren't sure.
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You know, he took such a delight in the you know,
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the macabre elements of the series, and you know it's
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it's you know today, it's it's very easy and very right.
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How we credit Rod Serling with so much of the
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creative genius of the Twilight Zone, but you know, I
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think the same you know, courtesy is really due. John
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Newlan didn't consider he directed every single segment, almost one
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hundred of one step beyond as well as opposed to
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you know, so that look that we're all familiar with,
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you know, it comes on two AM and it hits
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you in this in the face, this aura of black
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and white creepiness. You know, that's what John Newland did.
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You know. So it's really an amazing accomplishment, I think.
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And they did it, they did it well, and they
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did it understated. I mean, in the last twenty years,
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you know, we've had to become in or if we're
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willing to do that with slashing movies and a lot
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of gore and a lot of body parts. But back
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then it was also lot like what Hitchcock did, you know,
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with the turning of a doorknob, like a close up
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was was would drive you right out of your chair
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and not knowing who was going to come in on
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the other side. But you you remember that set too
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because he did two things. One he would do a
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standard intro I remember, and he had this very plane
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and of course it was black and white.
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So it was this like gray background. But you know
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what was spooky about it.
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The shadows that were cast through that transom with like
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the three spokes. Yeah, I mean I think they call
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him transoms whatever they that decord. The thing is over
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the front door, that's glass what it is. Yeah, and
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those those rays came in, I mean, the shadows came
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in and it was like that just spooked me out,
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you know.
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And and then he would.
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Also walk into the opening scenes stage.
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Setting right right he exactly, he would he would come
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in and he would interact almost you know, he'd be
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there staring at the people like they'd finish their scene
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and he'd be standing there or or walk amongst the
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set and pick up a off or what have you.
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So he was very integrated into the into the into
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the scenes. And you know what was so amazing about
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what he did is that some of those episodes talking
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about such basic things. There's there's one like about a
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girl who has a premonition that a chandelier is going
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to fall, and sort of the whole episode, the whole
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thirty minute is is this build up of suspense through
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her whole life as she goes through all these events
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in her life and is the chandelier in the living
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room going to fall or not?
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You know?
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And one is it going to fall? And what is
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it going to do?
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You know?
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I mean that's just such beautiful, economical, uh, storytelling to
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hinge everything on one device, you know, tinge everything on
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one idea, the idea of a chandelier, of a premonition
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that that the chandelier in your house is going to fall,
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you know, and he would do spinning cameras around the chandelier,
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low angles up. But yeah, it's just brilliant stuff. And
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you know, of course it was on a budget. It
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didn't cost anything to make that scary episode.
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You know, well, you make a good point, because what
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they did was it was it. They used.
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The solid storytelling techniques, especially the right and it was
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only a half an hour show as far as.
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I remembered that, did he not do one or two
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that might have been expanded?
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I think he only did half hour shows for one
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step beyond now he did go on later to direct
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episodes of Night Gallery and such, which were a various lengths.
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So you may be thinking of one of those.
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Okay, No, I didn't know if he ever did like
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a special, because you know, it seemed like, well, well
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we'll talk about that one that he actually went down
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into into South America for I thought that might have
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been a longer. But for the most part he did.
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Okay, if he did exclusively one hour show half hour shows, right,
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what's also well, what's what's good about that in those
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days is that there was less commercial content and you
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got more, you know, story content, not like it is now,
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so you got a little bit more of a break
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trying to tell a story in a half hour. But
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still that is very tough.
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To do, it is it is, And you know, that's
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when you realize so much depends on performance and the
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image that's told, you know, and and and how well
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written the story is. It's just, you know, really one
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step beyond has been my model for sort of effective,
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really low budget filmmaking. If you think about it, yeah.
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You know, it's well, I'll say it was. They did
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even a better job. But I think they were to
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TV horror shows if you will, what maybe not a
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Living Debt was a low budget you know, horror films.
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You know, it wasn't a big expenditure, but they made
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it work in black and white. Also, let's face it,
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when it gets down to things that are creepy, black
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00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:30.960
and white still works as a medium, I think, much
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better than color.
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I agree.
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You know, when you're looking at something in black and white, kid,
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and I think you feel the same way. You know,
250
00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:39.759
you're not looking at the color of the clothes somebody's wearing,
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or the color of the wall behind them. You're looking
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00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:43.799
at those at their faces, and you're looking at shadow
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and you're looking at the light. And you know, it
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00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.600
makes the actors almost come out more in black and
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white because you're really focused on their features and what
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00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:53.679
they're saying. You know, not all of these things, not
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00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.399
all these other things like I mentioned.
258
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You know, well, what you just said I think is true.
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And this is why also I think it works still
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to just dan I and that is is the gradations
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00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:05.200
of gray, the shadows, those are that there's so much
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00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.320
more dramatic than color can ever be. I mean again,
263
00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:11.039
back in the old days of TV, which I remember
264
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of most of it being black and white, you also
265
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had shows. Boy, oh, there's a million stories in the
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00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.360
Naked City. There you go, The Naked City. I mean
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00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.080
it was about streets and New York and stuff, and
268
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.639
you know, I mean it you had to do it
269
00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:28.399
in black and white, and nobody wanted to see color.
270
00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:30.399
I mean they were doing the pretty dirty stuff, you know,
271
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with puddled streets, and you know, it always seemed like
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00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:35.639
they shot in the winter because it was a snowback
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on every corner.
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But that's you know.
275
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:39.559
And The Defenders is another one I remember from those
276
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days with E. G. Marshall and Robert Reid his first
277
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TV series, and it was done in the city and
278
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it was, you know, it was black and white, and
279
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:46.960
it really it worked.
280
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It had to be like that.
281
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It drew all the attention of viewers to the actors
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and to what they were doing and to the cuts,
283
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and there wasn't all this. You know, they never shot
284
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like any kind of vista or skyl into New York
285
00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:02.600
City because that wasn't part of it. You know, it
286
00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.080
was down in dirty stuff. And so this was in
287
00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.480
one step beyond. And let me just set this up
288
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for you real.
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Quick if I can. I do you know, do you
290
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.559
remember I believe that one.
291
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.879
Step beyond jumped day in time once. Do you have
292
00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:22.879
any other schedule changes to them for any of the
293
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:24.000
three seasons?
294
00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.879
Gosh, you know, I don't think so. I think it
295
00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.159
pretty much kept the Tat the same time, the only
296
00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.440
real format ship was that had shot like the last
297
00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:35.440
thirteen in Great Britain because they kind of needed a change.
298
00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:37.960
And I think there was just one schedule shift. I
299
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:39.320
think that was in the third year.
300
00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:42.559
I think, all right, I thought it's it changed a
301
00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:45.679
day because all right now I'm watching this show.
302
00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:46.279
Now.
303
00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:51.000
Do we remember when new shows were birthed in the
304
00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:53.240
old days. Was this a coming out in September of
305
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:53.840
fifty nine?
306
00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.000
You know, it actually started in January fifty nine. It
307
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.720
actually you know, it started like the mid season or well, actually,
308
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:02.440
you know, it's the beginning of nineteen fifty nine.
309
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:03.559
But it's what today we would call.
310
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.039
Them mid season, the show, you know, the fifty eight
311
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:08.240
to fifty nine season. See, And that's how it'd be
312
00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:11.639
twilight Zone if these twilight Zone came around come September
313
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:15.240
fifty nine. But One Step Beyond had already you know,
314
00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:16.759
which I had already been on the air for you know,
315
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:17.960
almost a year at that point.
316
00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.600
Okay, all right, now here's what happened. This is what
317
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:23.600
I remember. I'm going to go back and I'm going
318
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.639
to look into New York Times TV listenings when I
319
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.960
go back up to the university here and go back
320
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:31.759
into nineteen fifty nine or sixty and look at the
321
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:35.840
because you know, all the shows obviously are listed there.
322
00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:38.360
But what I do remember is, and this is a big,
323
00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:40.879
big discussion point, my parents whether they were going to
324
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:43.320
let me watch One Step Beyond because they didn't want
325
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.879
admit it, but it creeped them out too.
326
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:48.200
Well, it is craepy.
327
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:51.879
So I remember I would get you know, I would
328
00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:53.679
do my homework, but boy, I used that over my head.
329
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:55.000
Let me tell you, well, you better than the homework.
330
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.000
Well that homework i'd done, I think it was Wednesday night.
331
00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:58.720
I'm not sure. Do you know what day it was?
332
00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:02.240
You know, I it's been think it's been almost ten
333
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:03.639
since I wrote the book, and I don't remember what
334
00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:04.120
night it was.
335
00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:05.600
That's okay, but I don't.
336
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.480
I don't remember which night it was actually on in
337
00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:08.639
its original broadcast.
338
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:10.559
I'm thinking it was a Wednesday night because it was
339
00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:11.200
a school night.
340
00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:13.879
I remember that, and it was at some time when
341
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.039
I was allowed to watch it, so I had to
342
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.159
get my homework done and I had to get showered.
343
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:19.720
I mean, they got everything they wanted out of me.
344
00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:23.879
And I remember the show before it was called Stagecoach
345
00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:25.639
that I remember.
346
00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:26.320
I mean, I don't.
347
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.799
I can't even tell you one plot line stage Coach
348
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:32.039
because I was just sitting there, just waiting for one
349
00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:34.399
step beyond the come on and when it started with
350
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:36.440
the music, and when it started with the drums and
351
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.759
with the one step beyond, you know, bang bang bang,
352
00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:41.879
when that came on the screen, I was like already
353
00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:42.840
gripping the arms.
354
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:43.080
Of the chair.
355
00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.279
You know, that's great.
356
00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:47.159
Well, you know the thing is, you know, I like
357
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:49.399
to always say that, you know, one step behind looks
358
00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:51.080
like it was like transmitted. It does look like it
359
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.000
was transmitted from a twilight and you can watch it now.
360
00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:55.080
It just takes you back to a place sometimes. You know,
361
00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:57.200
I was just really amazing thing.
362
00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:58.840
What you wrote that book ten years ago.
363
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:04.240
I realized when I was looking in the book, because
364
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.039
I wanted to recall the exact time, you know, I
365
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:08.639
was one of the last people was fortunate enough to
366
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.000
interview John Newlyan's right, and I wanted to look up
367
00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:12.840
and see exactly what the date was so I could
368
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:15.080
tell you. And it looks like I interviewed him on
369
00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.159
the afternoon of October twenty eighth, nineteen ninety nine. So
370
00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.799
it's not quite ten years, but it's like maybe nine years.
371
00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:24.720
The book came out in two thousand and one, just
372
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.279
because the world of publishing is so, you know, so
373
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:29.679
much slower than you know, it takes a couple of
374
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:31.879
years to prepare and everything. But yeah, I was thinking that,
375
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:36.200
you know, I was so excited to talk about the Shins.
376
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.120
Oh I'm going to get to go back and revisit something,
377
00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.799
and I realized just how long it had been since,
378
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.759
you know, I had actually watched all those episodes and.
379
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:45.759
Written the book. So yeah, it was it was nineteen
380
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:46.600
ninety nine when.
381
00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:51.159
I did it, Bah, I can't play and John Newlan
382
00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:53.960
I was happy to find out because this doesn't often
383
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:54.600
work this way.
384
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:59.240
His on screen persona seemed very classy.
385
00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:02.639
He managed not to get himself involved in any tabloid
386
00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.799
stuff even back then because there still wasn't you know.
387
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:06.880
The National Inquirer was with us back then as well.
388
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.759
Right, He just seemed to be clean and sharp and
389
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.920
did his job, and you found him to be the
390
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:15.680
gentleman I was hoping he would be.
391
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.119
He was.
392
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:18.839
I have to tell you, he was just a delight
393
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.880
to interview. He spent probably two two and a half,
394
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.759
maybe even close to three hours with me on the phone,
395
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:28.200
and he answered every single question I asked, and he
396
00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:31.480
didn't he didn't plenty punches, like when I would ask
397
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.640
him like what was your least favorite shower? You know
398
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:35.599
that they did a sequel series in the seventies and
399
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:37.759
syndication called Next Step Beyond, which you.
400
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:38.759
Know wasn't very good.
401
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:42.400
He was very upfront and honest about what the flaws
402
00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:44.440
of that series were. He was just very willing to
403
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.480
talk about the whole experience from One Step Beyond, the
404
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:50.440
Next Step Beyond. He was a straight shooter. He was
405
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.799
an open minded guy, and you know, he's truly one
406
00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:57.359
of the great you know, I think television pioneers, and
407
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.880
you know, I sometimes I find out when I'm in
408
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.240
viewing people in Hollywood today that, you know, people who
409
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.319
I really respect and like on screen or who are
410
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.319
my heroes, I get to interview them and I ended
411
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.039
up not thinking much of them personally, and it kind
412
00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.119
of makes me sad. But you know, that was not
413
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.599
the case with John Newland. You know, he lived up
414
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.519
to my expectations and you know, far far beyond that.
415
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.039
He was an amazing individual. And the only thing I
416
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:23.640
would want to add to that is that he did Unfortunately,
417
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.799
he he passed away in January of two thousand and
418
00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:28.759
he was eighty two years old, So you know, I
419
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.079
spoke to him in October ninety nine and he was
420
00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.400
gone by January tenth of two thousands.
421
00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:35.279
But I mean, was he still show up as attack
422
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:36.680
or whatever when you were talking to him.
423
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.359
Absolutely, he was huge. Remember titles of episodes and things.
424
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.640
I said, you know, what was your least favorite episode
425
00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.359
of One Step Beyond and why? And he remembered it
426
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.279
was called blood Flower. It's a not very good episode about.
427
00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:51.720
Like a flower carrying like the blood of.
428
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.880
Revolutionaries since Nouth America or something. He said, all I
429
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.160
just thought that concept stunk.
430
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:57.039
You know.
431
00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:58.920
He was he was just a great guy.
432
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.000
And he remembered episode titled He remembered his interactions with
433
00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.680
actresses like Suzanne Plachett or actors like Warren Batty. He
434
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.920
just remembered everything. He remembered specific shoots. He was able
435
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.559
to tell me a story about meeting Frank Sinatra on
436
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.640
the set of One Step Beyond shooting an episode called
437
00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.839
If U See Sally. You know, it was just amazing.
438
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.519
It was really one of the highlights of my professional
439
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.039
career to be able to share that time with him,
440
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:25.799
and he was just very given.
441
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:27.319
I thanks to do that.
442
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:29.400
And he was in a very pivotal spot. I mean,
443
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:31.039
not only had he been an actor and.
444
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:34.440
Now was the host of the show, but he was
445
00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:36.559
also a director and so he know what he was
446
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.400
talking about. And I guess, you know, it might have
447
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.519
been a really interesting relationship for him to be involved
448
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.839
with this wave of new actors and actresses that would
449
00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:50.200
soon be the bombs, if you will, in the sixties
450
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:51.000
through the seventies.
451
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:54.119
Oh, absolutely you know, he told me fascinating stories about
452
00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.160
what it was like shooting Warren Baby, and how insecure
453
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.559
Warren Batty was. He was an episode called Visitors, and
454
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:02.400
how he would come and watch the dailies every day
455
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.319
to make sure that he was doing okay, you know,
456
00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:05.680
to see all the raw footage of.
457
00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:06.759
Their episode and stuff.
458
00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:09.039
You know, I just did, you know, really amazing stuff
459
00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:13.079
to learn about. You know, he told that story about
460
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:15.559
Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra is shooting a war movie on
461
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:16.720
the side of one hill.
462
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:18.480
And him doing it.
463
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:21.480
Yeah, and Newland was filming if.
464
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.880
You see Sally on the other side, and Frank Sinatra
465
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:27.799
sent a messenger over to him and said, you know,
466
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.000
keep it down, John, we're trying to film a movie here.
467
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:34.240
And John Nowlan said, this is this is unbelievable. So
468
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.279
John Newland said he sent a message back to Frank
469
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.680
Sinatra saying, tell Frank he can go f himself.
470
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:41.839
Because we're shooting a TV.
471
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.880
And so John Nolan went back to shooting, not thinking
472
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.200
anything of it, and they said there was dead silence
473
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:51.440
on his set and he turned around and Frank Sinatra
474
00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.240
was standing beside it behind him. You know, he was
475
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.799
standing right behind him, and he said, I got your message, John,
476
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:59.920
And he said Frank Snatra was wonderful.
477
00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:01.400
They hugged and everything was fine.
478
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:04.880
But God, could you imagine.
479
00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:09.599
You don't say that to somebody from home, both in
480
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:10.079
New Jersey?
481
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:13.640
Absolutely not. I mean that takes a takes bald of
482
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.359
brass to say that. Frank Sinatra, I think, uh.
483
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.160
And then so why don't we just say it all? Now?
484
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:22.440
I'm speaking with John Kenneth Muir. Uh, he's a.
485
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:24.880
Joysy boy who he understands where that's at. You You
486
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.240
grew up in Essex County, didn't you.
487
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:27.960
I did, absolutely right.
488
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.200
That's the county doesn't go to. I mean, there was
489
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:32.799
no reason for me to go to Essex County.
490
00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:35.440
It's a really pretty county in New Jersey.
491
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:40.319
Well, my friends were at Harrison so anyway, But be
492
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:45.599
that as it may. We were talking about a TV
493
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.119
horror show, and horror almost seems to be a little
494
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.160
bit too jurassic a word. Would you cold suspense me?
495
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.240
How did when you wrote the book, how did you
496
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.240
term that genre of of a TV show?
497
00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:00.319
You know, it was very hard to do, you know,
498
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:02.160
I wrote the book sort of in the heyday of
499
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.799
shows like The X Files and Millennium and such. So
500
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.799
you know, I was very much comparing how One Step
501
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.599
Beyond treated these concepts and how newer shows did. So
502
00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:12.559
I did sort of lump it in with the horror,
503
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:16.039
but I okay with you that it's really an imprecise.
504
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:19.960
Comparison. You know, there is really no comparison.
505
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.039
I mean, it's suspends thrills. You know, it is horror
506
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:26.200
in a sense. There was one episode called Ordeal on
507
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.400
Locus Street about this horrible thing upstairs.
508
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:29.960
It was like a fish boy and stuff.
509
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.200
So you know, occasionally it would go straight into horror,
510
00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:35.039
but it wasn't like what you would think of horror
511
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:36.559
necessarily today.
512
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:41.039
If that makes sense, Yeah it does, and honestly I
513
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:43.440
would call it horror too, but you know, to me,
514
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.359
it was just so much classier than what we call horror.
515
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:48.839
Today, you know, right because today you know, you think
516
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.079
a lot about the special effects. You know, say, there
517
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.759
are a lot of remakes and things like that. You know,
518
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.799
One Step Beyond was really sort of an original initiative,
519
00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.839
you know. There there had never been a show like
520
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.440
Get on television before. And that's another thing that John
521
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:04.240
Newlan told me.
522
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:05.480
He said, I was on the.
523
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.440
Set, you know, midway through the first season of One
524
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.160
Step Beyond shooting and he was called on the telephone
525
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.279
by Rod Serling, and Rod Serling asked to meet him
526
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:17.720
in person, and John Newlan said, well, sure, M'd.
527
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:18.000
Be glad to me.
528
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.160
They went to a restaurant together in la and Rod
529
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:23.480
Serling told him, he said, I just want you to
530
00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:25.279
know I'm not going to rip you off, he said,
531
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.640
I'm doing a show called The Twilight Zone. He said,
532
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.799
but it's not you know, it's not paranormal, and it's
533
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.039
not about you know, evidence of the paranormal or you know,
534
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.599
documenting the paranorm. It's just an anthology of fantasy, science
535
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:38.880
fiction and horror. And that really meant a lot to
536
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:40.839
John Nowlan because, like I said, One Step Beyond was
537
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.799
one of the few shows like that on TV at
538
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:44.839
the time. And he said to me, he said, that
539
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.160
just proves what a class act Rod Serling was, is
540
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.359
that he took me aside personally. We met and he said,
541
00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:51.119
I'm not going to rip you off, John, you know,
542
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.920
instead of just letting The Twilight Zone premiere ten you know,
543
00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:56.039
ten months later and you know, boom, there it was
544
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:57.799
and people would draw the comparison, so.
545
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:02.960
You know, I mean, you're right, he didn't. He wasn't
546
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.079
expected to do that, but he did that, and that
547
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.680
exudes class.
548
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.359
It's absolutely and that's what John knew. I say, he's
549
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:10.920
just a classy, classy guy.
550
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.559
And you know, everything I read about Rod Serlings curly
551
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:15.759
indicates that that was really the case. But you know,
552
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.000
that was one of my favorite anecdotes too, because today
553
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.079
twilight Zone is so popular, it's been remade so many times.
554
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.240
It's you know, everyone knows what twilight Zone is. But
555
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.960
you know, besides, you know, a couple of diehards like us.
556
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:28.759
You know, people don't always remember how good One Step
557
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:30.000
Beyond was, which makes me sad.
558
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:33.359
And you had said to me, and I appreciate that
559
00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.200
you said that, and it makes sense, you know, One
560
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.599
Step Beyond because it isn't remembered by too many folks
561
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.640
because obviously you got to be a fossil like myself
562
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.799
to have you know, been involved with it. I mean,
563
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:45.480
obviously my folks who watch it are no longer with us,
564
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:47.680
so well that's left are those of us who were
565
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:50.279
born you know, anywhere from what I don't know, you know,
566
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:52.960
mid forties. I guess you would call him the boomer generation.
567
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.559
And and and I don't know how many of them are,
568
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:58.279
you know, contact you and I look at the blog
569
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:01.440
and the people who are who you know doing fact
570
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.079
a post there. It does seem like some of them
571
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.880
are older because they say they remember watching it, some
572
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:09.640
have seen it in whatever DVD collections they get it on,
573
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:13.640
or perhaps even some independent stations that might be running
574
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:15.119
it in the wee small hours of the morning.
575
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:17.680
Well, and that's you know, that's how I discovered one
576
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.359
step beyond. I discovered it in syndication in the seventies
577
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:22.200
and it sort of, you know, rocked me back on
578
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:23.079
my psychic heels.
579
00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:24.119
You know, whoa what is you know?
580
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:24.559
What is this?
581
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.720
You know because I ended up seeing it. I was
582
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:29.400
a young insomniac, you know, by the time I was
583
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.039
in middle school. You know that this show would appear
584
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.599
at two am and what you know, what is this?
585
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:37.519
You know that this this is amazing? You know, it
586
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:40.720
was so scary and seemed to, you know, just.
587
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:44.359
Exude so much you know, creepiness and menace and and
588
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:46.960
it seemed to be you know, literally transported out of.
589
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:48.079
Some sort of nether world.
590
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.119
You know, before my eyes, and that's how I discovered it.
591
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.440
But you know, it very quickly moved out of syndication,
592
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.279
I think by the eighties. And now, as you said,
593
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.599
there you know many their ninety six episodes, but I
594
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.440
think onlyde the sixty are actually available on DVD, and
595
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.119
they're all you know, one step beyond its fall into
596
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:11.559
the public domain. So these are all sorts of you know,
597
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.000
they're not remastered things.
598
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:14.799
These are old prints you know, that have.
599
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.759
Been found at you know, local stations around the country.
600
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.960
So you know, we don't have a really good you know.
601
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:24.279
One step beyond collection, no definitive one step beyond collection,
602
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:25.559
which is I think unfortunate.
603
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:28.720
Well, and this is also bad news in a sense
604
00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:31.119
because it had had it not fallen out of public domain.
605
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:35.160
The good news is some company would have gone ahead
606
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:38.200
and restored them and really done a great job. Yeah,
607
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:39.839
it would have cost something, but you still would have
608
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:41.519
had almost all of them preserved.
609
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:42.880
That just didn't happen, did it.
610
00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:44.519
No, it didn't. It didn't.
611
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.319
The if you look at some of the DVD collections,
612
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.240
you can see where like the film ends abruptly in
613
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:52.960
a scene. And I actually got to ask John Newlan
614
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.200
a little bit about that because I was even watching
615
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.519
old prints when I on video when I saw it,
616
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:00.559
you know, when I was reviewing them all for the book,
617
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.160
and I said, you know, this scene seemed abrupt? Was
618
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:05.359
that you know with that because the film was damaged
619
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:07.519
with how you shot it? And he said, oh no, no,
620
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.319
he said, no, you know we did it right, you know,
621
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.880
but the I guess the print have just become damaged
622
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:16.279
and frayed, and you know some pieces are missing. You know,
623
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:17.599
it's just it's unfortunate.
624
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:20.480
All right now, I just want to I want to
625
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:23.720
be fair about this. A couple of things, folks. John's
626
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.599
coming back. He's going to be on the twenty seventh
627
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.400
for the ten pm to midnight Eastern Time show that
628
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.279
Adam Gollrightley's going to co host as well. We're calling
629
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:35.480
at the Young Tamed Grass, you know a little hybrid
630
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.400
of both our shows, The Untamed Dimensions and also Beyond
631
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:40.759
the Grassy knowl. So he'll be uh, he'll be in
632
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.519
on this. John's coming back to be with us for
633
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:45.519
two hours. So if you get a chance, folks, they
634
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:47.559
have to listen to this. He had a heads up take.
635
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:48.799
A look with all he has to offer because we're
636
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:49.559
goin to get into all the.
637
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.200
Other books he's written, and you know, any and I
638
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:55.559
would think John, would I be correct in saying this
639
00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:58.880
that we would welcome anecdotes from folks across whatever genera
640
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.960
generational line as to you know, their favorite producers and shows,
641
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.039
you know, like Wes Craven, you know the Fripp and
642
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:07.039
aera stuff and all that.
643
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:08.519
Absolutely know.
644
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.279
I love to talk to the horror genre TV or
645
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:13.799
film with with anyone who loves it.
646
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:15.200
So I'm looking forward to it.
647
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.799
All right, And that's gonna happen Friday. And again, the
648
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.880
website is John tannethmuor dot com. His books are all
649
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.440
up there. John didn't I didn't follow through. But somebody
650
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:25.039
is handling your publishing.
651
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:25.240
Is that true?
652
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:26.519
Yes?
653
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.240
Yeah, McFarland is Mike Farland right here, Okay, Yes, that's right. Yeah,
654
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.319
they're the ones who released the One Step Beyond book.
655
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:34.480
That's right, all right? And you're okay because.
656
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.079
You know Amazon and some of the other online booksellers,
657
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.680
it gets a little strange with some of the authors,
658
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.599
but in this situation, I mean, you're fine with that
659
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.400
and going to McFarland.
660
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:48.640
Is just right. With you.
661
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:49.519
Is that is that great?
662
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:51.640
They can go to mcfarlande or they can go to
663
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:52.480
Amazon dot com.
664
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:52.960
That's fine.
665
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.759
All my books are are all right, Amazon or Barnes
666
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:59.839
and Noble, you know, and any any web bookstore carries
667
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.480
my books, and or they can go to the McFarland website.
668
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:04.440
That's right all right.
669
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:06.480
And again, folks, if you get a chance in between
670
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:11.440
when you hear this on Monday and between well that
671
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:14.079
those fourth days or so, you know, until John was
672
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.839
back on Friday, you know, please by all means take
673
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:17.519
a look around.
674
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:20.039
There might be some of my you know, pitch your
675
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:21.960
fancy for sure, and also.
676
00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:24.440
Come on with whatever you might have to recount about,
677
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:27.079
you know, your days with getting scared, when getting scared
678
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:27.720
was kind of fun.
679
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:29.920
Anything else you.
680
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:31.400
Want to hit, By the way, about the website so
681
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.759
that I'm not remiss and telling folks the resources that.
682
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:36.799
Are there, no, you know, I think you got it
683
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:37.160
all you can.
684
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.000
If you go to my website at www. John Kennethy
685
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.359
or dot com, you can see pictures of all my books.
686
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.519
There are links to my blog, and there's also a
687
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.200
link to my internet TV series which is Black.
688
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:48.519
And White Key.
689
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:49.920
There you go.
690
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:52.039
It's called the House.
691
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:56.440
Between all right, you can see the whole scope of
692
00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:59.279
my work, from my website, from blogs to my internet show,
693
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:02.759
to to picture and excerpts of my book.
694
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:06.319
And if you don't mind, in this second half hour,
695
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.799
would it be okay if we go into some of
696
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:11.599
the shows that I ranked as my Letterman top ten.
697
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:12.799
I would love that.
698
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:13.319
Yeah.
699
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:17.599
And you know you're being nice to me by saying
700
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:19.240
my memory is so good. But at this stage of
701
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:20.880
my life, I can probably remember what I did when
702
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:21.880
I was two, but I can't.
703
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:22.839
Tell you what I ate last night.
704
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:26.640
But seriously, and you and I said this off Mike too,
705
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.400
and that is this is an indication about when when
706
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.519
you are when you're young, and I'm thinking, obviously it
707
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:35.400
was eight, nine and ten.
708
00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:37.440
I mean that's the extent of it. I was no
709
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:39.039
older than ten when.
710
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:42.079
This show left the airwaves, and I remembered. I mean,
711
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.039
it's seared into my brain, there's no two ways about it.
712
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:47.599
I won't say that it was a nasty and ugly
713
00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:50.720
any kind of traumatization, but it has to be understood.
714
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.400
You know when you were, when you're young, and your
715
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.880
brain is an open book or whatever. Some of these
716
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:00.680
experiences that you have that do definitely radically shake you up.
717
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:04.119
Do you remember and you know, well, I'm looking at
718
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.200
what what forty years later plus, and these were just
719
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.319
off the top of my head.
720
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.920
Well, I think that you know, things like that, I
721
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:13.920
always say that they carry psychic weight, or they loom
722
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:15.920
large on your brain. You know, your brain at that
723
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:18.240
point is very impressionable, and this is often the first
724
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.759
time you experience something of that nature, and so the
725
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.160
you know, the weight of it is just amazing and
726
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:25.240
you always remember it.
727
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.359
You know, it's a I mean, I know I certainly
728
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:28.400
feel like that about.
729
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:29.240
Influences in my life.
730
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:30.160
And it's funny sometimes.
731
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.200
The good thing about One Step Beyond it's really a
732
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:34.000
good show and it stands the test of time.
733
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:34.480
You know.
734
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:35.960
I remember when I was a kid going to see
735
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.880
a drive in movie called Legend of Boggy Creek.
736
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:38.240
And it's a.
737
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.400
Horrible movement, but you know it scared me when I
738
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:41.799
was a kid.
739
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:43.079
But you went a horrible movie.
740
00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:45.279
Well, let me ask you this. Did you drive to
741
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:47.079
h did you drive to the drive it?
742
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:48.319
Yes?
743
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:51.039
Well I was. I was driven to the drive in
744
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:51.839
with my folks.
745
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.759
Oh no, because I was gonna say, if you drove
746
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:55.039
and you probably had a girl with you, eat and
747
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:56.160
give a damn what was on his screen.
748
00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:00.559
I was too young for that. I think that's I missed.
749
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.160
Unfortunately, I can't remember too many driving movies I saw.
750
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:07.279
But anyway, all right, the ones that I remember, and
751
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.440
I think some of them are in the forefront because
752
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.240
they seemed well, they definitely had a documented kind of support.
753
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:18.519
And one of them, and that's one of the interviews
754
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:21.160
that we talked about that gave credence to the show,
755
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.359
the one I had listed first, and I'm not sure
756
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:25.839
I'm going into the best of the least.
757
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:29.400
I just did them. And that was a show that
758
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:34.119
was about people having precognition about the sinking in World
759
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:39.920
War Two of the HMS Hood and what Newland did.
760
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:41.319
And I had asked you about this.
761
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:44.640
They interviewed somebody who was supposed to be on that ship,
762
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:46.559
and that turned out to be an actor who also
763
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:49.559
made the rounds in those days, whom.
764
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.680
You told me was Robin Hughes.
765
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:53.359
Is that correct?
766
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:57.160
That is correct, absolutely, So it was a British actor
767
00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:59.200
who was working in the sixties who actually had the
768
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:03.599
experience that the episode was about you know, which is amazing.
769
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.599
The episode was from the third of what.
770
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.359
It aired on equal fourth, nineteen sixty one. It was
771
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:13.480
called The Signal Received, and it's just like you said.
772
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:15.960
It was about like precognition about the sinking of the Hood,
773
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:20.039
and it followed three sailors in particular, and each one
774
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:25.200
sort of had this experience, you know, about their deaths
775
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:30.079
and the Hood. And one was like spiritboard divination, one
776
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:33.319
was Claire Audio, and another I think was just straight
777
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:34.240
old clairvoyance.
778
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:36.680
But two were negative and one was positive.
779
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:39.480
Two people knew they were going to die, and one
780
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.880
guy said that he would I think he did. He
781
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:43.680
was the spirit board guy said he'd lived a nice
782
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:46.200
long life or something. And sure enough, like the episode ended,
783
00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:48.839
these three guys walking onto the Hood and the one
784
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.720
guy gets pulled off. He got a transfer order and
785
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:53.440
he lived a long and happy life, you know. And
786
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.839
then fifteen hundred people, including those other two sailors you know,
787
00:33:57.079 --> 00:34:00.920
died when the Bismarck sunk the Hood nineteen forty one.
788
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:03.279
And it's just what you said, is that they brought
789
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.400
John Newlan, brought this actor on whose experience this was
790
00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:09.239
to to talk about the show again.
791
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:09.760
You know.
792
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:11.920
I was just I was shocked at jury call up
793
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:14.440
to you you picked that one off immediately, and that
794
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:15.800
you remembered all the details of.
795
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:18.519
It, and the use was kind of person who got
796
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:19.400
picked off, wasn't he?
797
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:20.119
Yep?
798
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:24.239
Absolutely all right, now there is something related to that.
799
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:27.519
You and I both went back around excuse me again,
800
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.639
choking on water, and I got this little mixed up.
801
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:34.840
But then you know, you clear it up for me
802
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:36.039
because I remember this one too.
803
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:37.119
I think.
804
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:43.840
Most people will be may have encountered this this story
805
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:47.400
other places, but this is and I'm gonna throw this
806
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.519
to you, this is the show they did on the titan.
807
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:57.400
Now, Keith, this is my all time favorite episode of
808
00:34:57.559 --> 00:34:58.440
One Step Beyond, and it.
809
00:34:58.559 --> 00:34:59.719
Still drives me crazy.
810
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:00.840
And what it is.
811
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.679
It's about sort of the psychic web of happenings that
812
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:07.239
surrounded the sinking of the Titanic in nineteen twelve. And
813
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:10.400
one of the things I talked about was a Canadian
814
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:13.039
minister who changed the hymn that night at his church
815
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:16.519
for no reason, to pray for those in peril on
816
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:18.480
the sea, you know, And then there are things like that,
817
00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:21.360
and you know, in fact, there was a professor at
818
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.559
university of Virginia who had collected like nineteen reports of
819
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:28.280
the paranormal all associated with the Titanic, and I don't know,
820
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.119
maybe a handful of those were like precognition about people
821
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:33.280
who were going to board the ship and were afraid
822
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:35.760
of drowning or things like that. But yeah, and you know,
823
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:37.519
that's what the episode is about, the sinking of the
824
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:41.159
Titanic and this web of all these psychic phenomena phenomena
825
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:44.440
around the thinking. But what absolutely floors me, and it
826
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.440
gets me every time, is that John Nolan at the
827
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:51.960
end of the episode walks to a bookcase and he
828
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.119
pulls out a book and it's called Futility, written by
829
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:58.559
a man named Morgan Robertson. It's a novel. It's a
830
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:02.199
fictional story supposed The novel's plot is about the first
831
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:05.400
voyage of the largest ocean liner ever built. On an
832
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:10.000
April night, this fictitious ship strikes an iceberg, and because
833
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.199
there aren't enough lifeboards lifeboats on the ship, over one
834
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:17.039
thousand passengers die in freezing waters. Okay, the name of
835
00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:20.280
that ship in the novel was the titan The book
836
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.400
itself was published in eighteen ninety.
837
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.000
Eight, fourteen years before.
838
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.719
The Titanic sinking. And I mean, that's just the tip
839
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:29.400
of the iceberg.
840
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.400
You know, you'll forgive it about the rotten plum, I'm
841
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:34.880
so sorry, but let me just tell.
842
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.880
You know some of the other similarities in Robertson's novel.
843
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.360
Of eighteen ninety eight. The titan was seventy thousand tons,
844
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:44.920
that's how much the ship weighed. The Titanic was sixty
845
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.760
six thousand tons. The titan was eight hundred feet long,
846
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:51.079
the Titanic eight hundred and eighty feet long. Both ships
847
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.440
had a top sailing speed of twenty five knots. And
848
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.519
the most bizarre thing is that both ships struck icebergs
849
00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:58.239
and sunk on a night in April.
850
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:00.360
I mean, to me, that just gets me.
851
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:02.800
Every time I did all this research onics, I thought
852
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:03.920
he is making that up.
853
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.639
I thought, there's no.
854
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.719
Way that's true, and I followed a couple of false leads.
855
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:09.639
But then I found it is true, and the book
856
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:14.840
was actually republished I think maybe in nineteen ninety seven,
857
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:18.800
when that's when Titanic sort of nostalgia he t used
858
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.199
that word was popular again with James Cameron films.
859
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:23.760
All right, but I mean, this is actual true somebody wrote.
860
00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:27.000
A book that forecasts with all those details, the thinking
861
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:29.280
of the Titanic. It was just called titan I mean,
862
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:31.280
it's it really boggles the mind.
863
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:34.360
I mean that that's a tough one to argue with.
864
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:35.519
How did you know? You know?
865
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:36.719
Right right?
866
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:39.119
I mean you know one or two things like that,
867
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:41.360
I say, coincidence. But you placed it in the same
868
00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:45.679
month with the same problem with lifeboats, with the details
869
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:48.079
of the ship being so similar. I mean it, you know,
870
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:49.599
it certainly raises questions.
871
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:51.400
Do you know anything about and have you aught to say?
872
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:53.880
It was Robertson, Yeah, Morgan Robertson was his name.
873
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:54.920
Do you know anything about him?
874
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:57.639
I don't. I don't. I don't know much about him.
875
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:58.159
You know.
876
00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.679
I went back and said, I.
877
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:02.400
Followed some false leads because there was some book I
878
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:04.840
found in the eighties that had the wrong title for
879
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:07.280
the book and had the wrong author. So I thought, okay,
880
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.199
that's one thing against it. And then I went back
881
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:12.559
to a Collier story from the late eighteen hundreds that
882
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:15.199
was supposedly this story, and it was not. It was
883
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.599
one called the Liner and the Iceberg, but it was
884
00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:19.719
about like an old trawler ship I think named the
885
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:22.239
Amelia or something else. So like, none of the details
886
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.440
were right. So I was thinking, Okay, this book didn't
887
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:26.960
really exist, you know, John Nolan put me on. But
888
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:29.639
then I found all the details and they were exactly
889
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:30.480
as he said.
890
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:33.239
But I don't know the biography of this author.
891
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:36.119
Okay, you have no idea if he comes from the UK,
892
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.199
do you he does come from the UK? Yeah, all right,
893
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:41.159
we won't get into that, but we all talk from
894
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:42.880
other time. Right.
895
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:47.679
Secondly, well, I had written to you again on one
896
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:51.360
that was based on fact it seems, and a story
897
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:53.920
not necessarily unknown to a lot of folks, and that
898
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:57.239
is Lincoln's dream of being assassinated and viewing his own
899
00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:58.480
funeral in the White House.
900
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:00.159
Right right now.
901
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:03.119
This was a one step beyond episode from nineteen sixty
902
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:05.400
in the second season. It's called The Day the World Web,
903
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.760
The Day the World Web, the Lincoln Story, and very
904
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:11.960
much like the Titanic episode, it involved sort of all
905
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:17.000
the psychic phenomena around the Lincoln assassination. For example, a
906
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.440
printer in East Pennsylvania hammers out a headline in the episode,
907
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:24.800
like hours before the assassination that reads Lincoln margret National tragedy.
908
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:28.599
But it does focus on the very issue you remember,
909
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:31.400
which is that Lincoln had recurring visions of his own
910
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:32.119
death while he.
911
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:32.960
Was in the White House.
912
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:35.760
He described these dreams to members of his cabinet, So
913
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.599
there is eyewitness testimony that he had those dreams, and
914
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.320
one dream involved him awaking in the White House to
915
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:45.840
sounds of weeping and he asked to Guard what's going on, said,
916
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:47.000
the President has been killed.
917
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:49.159
And that was just one.
918
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.840
He had another dream early in his term where he
919
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.440
saw two images of himself in the mirror. In a one,
920
00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:59.199
his face was completely normal. In the second, it had
921
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:01.480
this sort of death like pallor across it, like he
922
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:04.519
was looking at himself as a corpse. And his wife, Mary,
923
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:08.360
who really believed in his dreams, said to him, she said,
924
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.760
what this dream represents that you're going to be alive
925
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:11.639
and healthy through your.
926
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:13.039
First term, and you're going to be killed in your
927
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:14.519
second term, or you're going to die.
928
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:16.079
In your second term. I think that's probably one percent.
929
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:17.280
I think she said you're going to be killed. I
930
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:18.920
think said you're going to die in your second term.
931
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:23.599
So it is documented fact that Lincoln did very much
932
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:27.119
fear for his own death and had dreams of his
933
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:31.280
death while he was in office. And that's another one
934
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:33.000
of the great one step beyond the stories.
935
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:34.840
I would say, no, it was again, it.
936
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:35.480
Was well done.
937
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:40.079
And this is just a quick plug for folks who
938
00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:43.480
want to realize just what Lincoln knew with regard to
939
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:45.039
the enemies that surrounded him.
940
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:46.719
There are two good books out there.
941
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.639
One is called a Lincoln Conspiracy by think Boldinger, and
942
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.119
there was another one called Dark Union by I think
943
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:57.519
it is Ness and Gutteridge, and they will show you
944
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:00.679
just exactly what he knew he was up against. His
945
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.599
precognition may have been based a lot on what he
946
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:06.440
rightly should have feared, right but.
947
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:09.280
That's, you know, my little conspiracy political plug, and that's
948
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:10.119
what the show is about.
949
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:12.440
So I'll move Well, have you ever heard of the
950
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:14.039
theory of retro synchronicity.
951
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.639
Well, we might, we might have called it a bunch
952
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:20.079
of other things on the agression all but ahead throw
953
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:20.480
that out.
954
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:23.000
Well. I came across as when I was researching the book,
955
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.159
and I just wanted to name it because you know,
956
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:27.400
of course people could say it's coincidence, like people always do.
957
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.400
But the theory of retro synchronicity is that Lincoln and
958
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:35.599
Kennedy are basically connected, and it's their path follow the
959
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:40.280
same course. Lincoln was elected to Congress in eighteen forty seven, Kennedy.
960
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:41.159
In nineteen forty seven.
961
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:43.119
Each man was killed by a bullet to the head
962
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:46.199
in the presence of their spouse. The boats were warned
963
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:47.880
not to go on the trips that killed them, either
964
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:52.360
to the theater or to Dallas and their assassins. Wilkes
965
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.559
Booth was born in eighteen thirty nine. Lee Harvey Well
966
00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:59.119
in nineteen thirty nine, and then the name of kennedy secretary.
967
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.599
Of course was Lincoln Lincoln.
968
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:02.920
I don't know if there's anything to that, but something
969
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:04.119
about that just fascinating me.
970
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:05.360
I can't help but.
971
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:09.440
Yeah, and there is there's even more to it, I would,
972
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:12.199
I would say. But also sixty three was a pivotal
973
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:17.280
year for both. I both definitely believe that Lincoln and
974
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:20.639
Kennedy each knew the way things really, you know, what
975
00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:24.800
really runs the world, and there are handlers, and I
976
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.760
think both of those presidents said, you know, I can't
977
00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:30.679
do this, and that was fatal for Lincoln.
978
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:31.119
Obviously.
979
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:36.159
It probably happened in and around visiting Gettysburg with Kennedy
980
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:38.480
it happened beforehand. But of course in sixty three he
981
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:42.480
was assassinated. Lincoln was assassinated sixty five. But both of
982
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:46.280
those presidents were pretty much lightning rods at very critical
983
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:50.039
times in our history. And yeah, and also I'm only
984
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:50.880
going to throw this out to you.
985
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:53.639
I'll be able to in a later show, but just
986
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:55.400
you know, to tweak you a little bit.
987
00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:01.079
John, No, No, in the how should I say in
988
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.039
the Classic Assassinator's Handbook, if you want to kill a
989
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:08.320
head of state, the best way to do it, you know,
990
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.960
in that protocol is a headshot. Okay, And if you
991
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:15.880
take a look, you'll find that this, you know, look
992
00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:18.719
at or look at Robert RFK headshot. And I hate
993
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:23.079
to say it, although Teddy's unassassinated, he's dealing with the
994
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:26.679
cerebral problem right anyway.
995
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:28.760
Well, maybe there's there's no connection. I had to bring
996
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:30.039
up that retros incranctation.
997
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:34.000
Oh no, not no, without a doubt. No, And it's
998
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:36.719
you know, we don't believe in coincidence beyond the cress,
999
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:39.360
you know, one of the other things I.
1000
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:43.000
Had asked you about. Well, then, also I thought this
1001
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:45.079
is probably the one that gave me the eb gbs
1002
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.639
the most. The first two were just real, you know,
1003
00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:50.920
you know, it just was real convicting. But this one,
1004
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.320
this one spooked me out and they did it very well.
1005
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:53.920
And that was.
1006
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:57.199
Now here's how I wrote it to you, and I
1007
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.400
think you have that in your book, and that is
1008
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.840
the ghost of a giant. This took place in Mexico
1009
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.360
who you know, kills like what I thought was an
1010
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:09.719
abusive soldier, like you know, whooping up on the peasants.
1011
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:11.199
How close did I get with that?
1012
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:14.920
Well, again, you have amazing recall, because that's exactly what
1013
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:18.480
it is. The story you're talking about is called Persons Unknown,
1014
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:22.119
and it aired in One Step Beyond third season February seventh,
1015
00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:24.079
nineteen sixty one, so you probably know where you were
1016
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:29.000
February seventh, ninety. It takes place in what is essentially
1017
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.800
sort of a haunted convent of sorts, one that was
1018
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:35.360
constructed over the sight of an Aztec shrine, and there's
1019
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:37.840
the myth that it reportedly houses the spirit of a
1020
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:41.480
deceased warrior, this giant that you mentioned, who was sacrificed
1021
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:43.920
by his king. But in the course of the story
1022
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:46.639
that we're watching on one Step beyond this giant appears
1023
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:48.960
and kills the sadistic soldiers exactly what you said, it's
1024
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:52.199
an abusive soldier and eyewitnessed. This is a man named
1025
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:57.119
doctor Adel atl who saw the ghost and reported basically
1026
00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:00.760
a plaster mold of the dead man's face, yes, giant
1027
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:03.760
hand prints, not like he'd been you know, smothered. And
1028
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.840
and then I mean the topper, of course, is that
1029
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:08.679
the story ends with the actual doctor Adel, you know,
1030
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:11.719
joining John Newman on this dark stage for an interview
1031
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:14.159
about this occurrence. And you know he's not able to
1032
00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:16.199
explain it, but he said, you know, he saw the ghost.
1033
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:20.039
It was right there with him me. It's an amazing story.
1034
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:22.719
And you know, as far as accuracy, what I dug
1035
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.159
up is that there is an ex convent and I
1036
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:27.920
don't know if I'm saying it right Lomrsad, Mexico City,
1037
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.480
and and there is a real doctor Adel who was
1038
00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:34.000
a well renowned.
1039
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:37.840
Art critic and artists, and he did live in that convent.
1040
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.599
Now there had you know, I was not able to
1041
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.679
track down anybody who could send me to a mold
1042
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:47.239
of a man stay with the fingerprints, so that may
1043
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:49.559
have been embellishment, but It's amazing to me that you
1044
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:52.039
remember this one, because you know, whenever I write books
1045
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.400
about shows, I think of sort of signature episodes like
1046
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:56.440
you know, you know, the Twilight Zone Joey's remember, or
1047
00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:58.679
the Star Treks she always remember. It's like there's like
1048
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.039
maybe a handful in every show, a ten one like
1049
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.159
you said, and it lights up room. Everyone remembers it.
1050
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:04.719
And you know, I wouldn't say this is like a
1051
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.159
signature one step beyond show, but you remembered it down
1052
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.199
to the last detail, which is pretty amazing information.
1053
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.639
Well if have you seen that that particular show at all?
1054
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.800
Yeah, yeah, I got to watch it for the book,
1055
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:19.400
you know, and it's funny. I consider like the Lincoln
1056
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:21.440
or the Titanic one like ooh, those pop out at me.
1057
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:22.920
But it's like, you know, out of ninety six, I
1058
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.480
didn't remember the details of this one until you brought
1059
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:28.519
it up. Well, it really really is a fascinating story.
1060
00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:31.360
Well, they did it so spookily too, I mean, I mean,
1061
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.760
well I can't even recount it, but I mean the
1062
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:37.400
fact that it was it was desolate.
1063
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:39.880
There's something invisible going on. Now.
1064
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.119
The only thing I'll last you because you know, I
1065
00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:44.719
do have a historical edge to me? Did that have
1066
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:46.599
to what do we know that that took place in
1067
00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:49.760
the early twentieth century or did it take on what
1068
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:53.000
was that supposedly before? The reason I'm saying is because
1069
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:55.239
you had Maximilian's troops. French troops that were in there
1070
00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:57.480
were definitely not liked by the Mexican people.
1071
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:00.400
It was definitely in the twentieth cent all right, so
1072
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:03.320
that was you know, it was when doctor Addall was
1073
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:06.039
a younger man, so it would have probably been the
1074
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:07.760
early twentieth century.
1075
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:11.760
All right, that we've been around the Buirez, I would believe,
1076
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:14.400
or via no Pancho Villa that would have been.
1077
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:16.880
Well, you know what, It's interesting because people I don't
1078
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:18.719
know if I've said this before in the interview, but
1079
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:21.719
I get a lot of mail email about one step
1080
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:24.360
beyond with people asking me to help them corroborate their stories.
1081
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:26.159
And there are people who are interested in this episode
1082
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:28.880
who have tried very hard to get cooperation for this episode,
1083
00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:32.760
corroboration for it. So you know, there are other people
1084
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:34.880
who are trying to track this down, like as we speak,
1085
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:35.719
all right.
1086
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.960
That's good, I mean, but if we're in the twentieth century.
1087
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:41.840
Then it was probably around VIA's time, you know, VA's time.
1088
00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:44.280
It was not had nothing to do with the French invaders. Okay,
1089
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:44.840
no problem.
1090
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:47.639
You know again, I'm not one hundred percent sure of that.
1091
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:49.880
I just I'm pretty sure it's the twenty stenty just
1092
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:51.039
because of what demand's age.
1093
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:53.440
Well, yeah, and you're right, because a guy was on
1094
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:55.840
was on the tube in nineteen fifty nine sixties.
1095
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:57.760
Yeah, it would have had to have.
1096
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.280
It would have older man, you know, it could have
1097
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:02.000
been back, you know, forty years or so, but it
1098
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:04.719
would have had to have been I think twentieth century.
1099
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:05.440
No, you're right.
1100
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:07.199
I mean because in those times too, there were so
1101
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:09.440
many overthrows of governments because the all seemed to get
1102
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.360
the spotic on the new Mexican people and for that
1103
00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:15.079
gentleman still to be alive in you know, in the
1104
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:17.920
late fifties going into the sixties. It was definitely around
1105
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:20.760
the time of the and whatever dictator put in whatever
1106
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:24.079
kind of you know, government. So that answers that that
1107
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:27.039
that you're right, all right, now we get another one.
1108
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.880
And there's something kind of serendipitous about this from if
1109
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:34.119
I if I got it right, I remember rocks falling
1110
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.079
from the sky in what I believe was Chico, California.
1111
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:42.679
That's right, yep, that's that is an event from an
1112
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:46.280
episode called Where Are They which aired December thirteenth, nineteen
1113
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:48.960
sixty and it told two stories. In the first one,
1114
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.679
in this town of Chico, California, a rock started falling
1115
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:55.800
from the sky and a man who called himself the
1116
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:59.079
Ghost took credit for it in March nineteen twenty two.
1117
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.960
And then but the crazy was the rocks felt the
1118
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:05.480
same time every day at three o'clock, every day, rocks
1119
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.960
fell from the sky, right, I mean, it's not in
1120
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:10.519
the ghost, the ghosts and the rock storms.
1121
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:11.519
Everything just disappeared.
1122
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:14.280
And in terms of authenticially this was one of my favorite.
1123
00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:18.519
Thanks to research, history records that from July to November
1124
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:22.280
of nineteen twenty one, rocks indeed fell from the sky
1125
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:26.360
in Chico, California for now explicable reason. A lawman named J. A.
1126
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:29.000
Peck investigated the case, and the.
1127
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:31.920
San Francisco Examiner reported on the situation in March of
1128
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:35.639
nineteen twenty two. There was a scientist, his name was C. K. Studley,
1129
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.480
who reported his findings and let me just quote those
1130
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:41.000
findings if I can. Some of the rocks are so
1131
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:43.280
large that they could not have been thrown by any
1132
00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:47.039
ordinary means. One of the rocks weighs sixteen ounces. They
1133
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:49.920
are not of meteoric origin, as seems to have been hinted,
1134
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:53.280
because two of them show signs of sementation, either natural
1135
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:56.280
or artificial, and no meteoric factor was ever connected to
1136
00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:57.280
a cement factory.
1137
00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:58.519
And I'll.
1138
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:01.559
What One step On was talking about here, you know,
1139
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:03.519
beyond this case was the idea of some sort of
1140
00:50:03.559 --> 00:50:08.599
anomalous phenomenon, and there was another instance of rocks falling
1141
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:12.920
from the sky in Charleston, South Carolina, on September fourth,
1142
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:16.639
eighteen eighty six. So again, what's great about One step Beyond,
1143
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:18.960
whether you believe in the psychic or not, is that
1144
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:23.199
it accurately took what the reports were on that story
1145
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:27.400
from Chico and portrayed them really pretty accurately, which I
1146
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:30.079
think is you know, I think is very admirable for
1147
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:34.440
a genre show to take such pains to depict the
1148
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:35.360
story accurately.
1149
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.360
I agreed. Grammatically, yeah, no, agreed. But again, that's why
1150
00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:42.599
we're talking about this because it you know, I'm one
1151
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:45.039
of the only people left I even have to talk.
1152
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.840
To some of my parts back up in Jersey whether
1153
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:49.559
they remember this kind of stuff, because I don't even
1154
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:51.760
know if we talked about this then, because.
1155
00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:53.800
I don't know, you know, we weren't other things and
1156
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:55.480
Psycho was out and all this other stuff. But I
1157
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:57.800
got to go back and ask about that. Well.
1158
00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:00.639
Also, I'm going to say this, and I'm tweaked, but
1159
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:03.119
I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this up because it's provocative.
1160
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:04.400
Folks.
1161
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:09.199
Take to look and see what latitude Chico, California is on,
1162
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.679
and I'll tell you why when we get back together again,
1163
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:13.000
John on that Friday.
1164
00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:15.920
Okay, that's something I have absolutely no idea about that.
1165
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:18.199
I have no idea what that's about.
1166
00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:22.559
I'll breed deep the gathering glue. Okay, all right, now
1167
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:24.000
we go into one again.
1168
00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:26.360
And this isn't far fetch from what we're hearing about
1169
00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:29.960
today with all these alternative situations and cars running on water,
1170
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:33.320
on hydrogen, on McDonald's grease and all this stuff. Do
1171
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:36.000
you remember the one where somebody went into a patent
1172
00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:38.159
office and had some kind of pillar or whatever that
1173
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:39.639
turned water into gasoline.
1174
00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:43.360
Absolutely, Now that was the second part actually of this
1175
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:45.880
episode where are they the same one? In the feature Chico,
1176
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:48.079
it was told two stories in that half hour only
1177
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:52.199
Macaeliscarre and it means amazing, and it was said in
1178
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.840
nineteen seventeen, and it features the disappearance of this genius who,
1179
00:51:56.079 --> 00:51:58.719
just as you said, developed a chemical catalyst to turn
1180
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:02.039
water into fuel, and like it goes before Congress and
1181
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:04.000
it's all going to happen, It's going to be this revolution,
1182
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:07.119
and then he and his formula disappear suddenly, just like
1183
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:09.480
they were removed from the timeline or something.
1184
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:10.639
You know.
1185
00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:14.039
I have asked and I have researched this. I have
1186
00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:17.239
never found the event that this is about. And again
1187
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:19.519
I have to mention people email me. Someone emailed me
1188
00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:22.880
just the last month about this particular case, and if
1189
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:25.760
anybody knows the specifics, I'd love to know it, because
1190
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:28.840
one step beyond didn't usually totally go off on a
1191
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:29.599
crazy tangent.
1192
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:31.599
Usually there was some I've proven.
1193
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:35.639
Some authentic story behind it. My problem, honestly, Keith, and
1194
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:38.079
was that I sort of came along with this book
1195
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:40.199
a little too late. I was able to talk to
1196
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:43.599
John Nowlan months literally months before he passed, in months
1197
00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:45.440
maybe two or three months, but a lot of the
1198
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:48.920
writers of the show were already dead when I was interviewing.
1199
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:50.760
You know, I was not able to get a whole
1200
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:51.360
bunch of one.
1201
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:53.519
Step beyond interviews in the book because many of the
1202
00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:57.239
writers and the producers were already gone, you know, some
1203
00:52:57.480 --> 00:52:59.880
forty five years hence from the series or such.
1204
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:03.239
So I don't I don't have a trail to follow
1205
00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:03.559
on that.
1206
00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:04.800
Yeah, that's true.
1207
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.039
You know, I'd be curious to know. You know, what
1208
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:10.480
was the basis for this? I mean, have you heard anything.
1209
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:14.440
About that myself? No? What I did is though I
1210
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:17.119
told you that somebody had just emailed me.
1211
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:20.480
But you know, you there. I'm sorry. I think I
1212
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:22.039
lost you there, hold on, can you hear me?
1213
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:23.440
Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
1214
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:25.159
Yeah? There we go, There we go. I'm sorry.
1215
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:31.280
Okay, No, With regard to the Chico, California situation, ironically,
1216
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:35.199
somebody just emailed me from Chico, California about something else,
1217
00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:37.800
And I've just asked a gentleman whether or not he's
1218
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:41.480
ever heard anything in lore or whatever that this took place.
1219
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:44.760
In fact, it happened in Chico, So I was hoping
1220
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.199
he might respond to me. He obviously does not know
1221
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:50.199
that you and I were going to be speaking about this, right,
1222
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:52.760
but we still have till next Friday to do this
1223
00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:55.639
a week from today while we're recordings on June twenty
1224
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:57.039
of folks, and a week from today we're going to
1225
00:53:57.079 --> 00:53:59.079
do it two hour a live thing. Who knows what'll
1226
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:03.760
come in but that Chico situation. Oh, I'm sorry. You
1227
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:06.679
know we were talking about the gasoline thing. But but
1228
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:09.239
what's freaking me out? And you just said it was
1229
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:11.440
that this is a two part show. They were juxtapost
1230
00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:14.840
that within two weeks of each.
1231
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:17.239
Other, right right, all that they were on the air
1232
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:18.840
the same week, it was like within the same half
1233
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:21.880
of Mackerel. Yeah, they were sort of vignettes, you know.
1234
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:24.280
Can you imagine those that those two do? Do it?
1235
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:26.480
And I didn't. I didn't even recognize them with a
1236
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:27.320
party and party?
1237
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.360
Oh really because when you when you live, Yeah, I
1238
00:54:30.440 --> 00:54:31.960
see that you have them on separate lines.
1239
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:34.159
I thought, oh that's no, that's that's one episode.
1240
00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:36.599
Brother, I'm telling you, as straight as a heart attack,
1241
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:38.760
I had no idea that they were a part one
1242
00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:41.400
in part two. Holyrel.
1243
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:43.840
That that also, i'd say, is one of the signature
1244
00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:47.599
shows that has raised the most questions. People are fascinated
1245
00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:49.800
by the Chico thing because there are so there's so
1246
00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:51.679
much documentation you can find out.
1247
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:53.880
I mean, there's stories in the San Francisco Examiner.
1248
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.360
You know, either you know there's a place to go,
1249
00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:58.440
and I'm sure there's a place to go for the
1250
00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:01.880
second story. But I don't know what I don't I don't,
1251
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:03.000
like I said, I don't have a trail.
1252
00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:06.880
Well, that bit about turning water in the gasoline real quickly.
1253
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:09.960
One we had somebody down here in Florida who could
1254
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:13.280
run a car on water and he wound up dead
1255
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:18.719
under well, the mainstream news wouldn't call suspicious circumstances, but
1256
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:21.719
you know, and also I had done a show with
1257
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:30.440
somebody out of Canada who was working on alternative gasoline substances.
1258
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:32.599
And this is before we got hit with this last
1259
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:37.599
you know, oil of Bryce Hike, and he I got
1260
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.440
in touch with him because I was tracking down somebody
1261
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:42.840
by the name of Cagiano who had come up with
1262
00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:48.159
one hundred mile per gallon corporretor and he has disappeared
1263
00:55:48.159 --> 00:55:50.639
from the face of the earth. So this gentleman who
1264
00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:53.840
went in I guess what in nineteen seventeen. You said, yep,
1265
00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:56.039
had and went to a patent office.
1266
00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:56.719
Is that correct?
1267
00:55:57.079 --> 00:55:58.519
Yeah, that's right, and he had this.
1268
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.079
But wasn't it the the way the shild left it
1269
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:03.800
was that he split before they came in and wanted
1270
00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:04.400
to talk to him.
1271
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:06.960
Well, it was just like he disappeared, like it was
1272
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.360
like he just disappeared off the face of the planet,
1273
00:56:09.639 --> 00:56:11.920
like he never existed at all, you know, which made
1274
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:15.840
me now again't remember I watched these you know, ten nine,
1275
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:19.239
eight years ago or so. But my feeling at the time,
1276
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:20.960
I know this is going to sound ridiculous, was that
1277
00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:23.079
he was like a time traveler or something.
1278
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:25.840
You know, it doesn't sound ridiculous, you know, but I.
1279
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:27.199
Mean that, you know that that was sort of the
1280
00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:29.000
impression I was left from the story that he was
1281
00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:31.599
somebody who maybe shouldn't have been there and shouldn't have
1282
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:33.639
been doing that, and so he was taken away. I mean,
1283
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:36.000
I don't you know, that was my impression at the time,
1284
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:38.679
and I may be misreading what my memory was from
1285
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:40.880
that time, but I remember stories like that fascinated me
1286
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:43.360
where they offered no explanation. Then I you know, you start,
1287
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:45.880
you know, your wheels start spinning and he start think.
1288
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:47.039
Well, what could have been the explanation?
1289
00:56:47.639 --> 00:56:49.960
So all right, and then, like I said, this is
1290
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:51.920
not unusual though if you had been a straight up
1291
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.440
shooter of you don't mess with the oil oilg arcs.
1292
00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:55.000
They don't like that.
1293
00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:57.400
No, that's well, that's that's a fact.
1294
00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:00.199
Yeah, all right now the one that all so, it
1295
00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:01.280
was extremely eerie.
1296
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:03.760
But you know what, in certain other venues it is
1297
00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:08.639
documented as having happened, and that was during World War One,
1298
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:13.840
a cessation of fighting, as those all throughout continental Europe
1299
00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:16.800
claimed that they saw some light in the sky. And
1300
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.880
I'll just leave it there. How close am I am
1301
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:20.679
with with that one?
1302
00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:23.320
John, Well you remember that one as well, and you
1303
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:23.719
must have.
1304
00:57:23.719 --> 00:57:25.880
Been watching the show soon after premiere.
1305
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:27.960
You must have caught on quickly, because that was only
1306
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.719
the tenth episode. One tip be it really called the Vision.
1307
00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:34.760
It aired March twenty fourth, nineteen fifty nine, and it
1308
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:37.559
told this story that occurred at twenty two, one hundred
1309
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:41.440
and thirty hours on November fourteenth, nineteen fifty nine, when
1310
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:43.840
French and German soldiers witnessed this glowing light in the
1311
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.079
sky and after seeing it, no one on the battlefield
1312
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:48.599
was willing to fight anymore, and then you know, this
1313
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:51.519
light had basically arrested all hostility. And you know, there's
1314
00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:53.159
a talk about you know, this heavenly ray of light,
1315
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:56.159
and Newland explains in the episode that this light affected
1316
00:57:56.360 --> 00:57:59.000
like a thousand men from the English Channel to Italy
1317
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:02.119
to Russia and if they could no longer fight that day,
1318
00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:05.800
you know, again, here he gives you a trail, you're
1319
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:07.559
able to go back to that date and time. And
1320
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:09.519
I was not able to find anything on that date
1321
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.480
and time, which baffled me. But like you said, and
1322
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.119
this was my point. When I wrote the book one
1323
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:20.159
step beyond tried to portray things accurately. It didn't always
1324
00:58:20.199 --> 00:58:22.400
stick to the letter of what happened in the story,
1325
00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:23.880
because you have to get a story done in a
1326
00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:26.280
half hour, you have to have interesting characters, you have
1327
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:30.159
to have dramatic license, so it will explore a concept accurately,
1328
00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:33.400
even if it doesn't always report an incident accurately.
1329
00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:35.360
And that's why I think what was happening.
1330
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:40.400
Here, because there have been many times throughout the history
1331
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:43.480
of warfare, particularly in the twentieth century, when people have
1332
00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:49.239
told stories like this. One possible explanation is what a
1333
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:53.840
psychologist called an emotional chain reaction, which is often described
1334
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:57.239
by psychologists and witnessed in the Vietnam War, where human
1335
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.639
beings basically send out emotional signals to other human beings
1336
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:03.400
that they pick up on. And what the event that
1337
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:07.639
happened in Vietnam that was recorded was that soldiers were
1338
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:11.079
fighting and into the midst of the battlefield walked several monks.
1339
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:13.480
It wasn't a heavenly light, it was just monks. And
1340
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.519
in seeing the monks, one man stopped fighting, another man
1341
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:20.800
stopped fighting, an emotional chain reaction, and then more and
1342
00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:22.199
more man stopped fighting til.
1343
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:22.920
Nobody was fighting.
1344
00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:25.280
So I wonder if the idea of the vision is
1345
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:27.280
the same kind of story, the story of an emotional
1346
00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:30.239
chain reaction, that perhaps it was just you know that
1347
00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:32.239
it wasn't that the light was from heaven, but that
1348
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:36.480
that light triggered an emotional chain reaction, a psychic chain reaction,
1349
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:40.360
if you will, in the man fighting, and if somebody,
1350
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:42.559
I mean, I would love to hear if anybody has
1351
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:45.519
any information on that specific incident, because again he gave
1352
00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:47.519
us a trail there, but I followed it and I
1353
00:59:47.559 --> 00:59:51.239
didn't find any comment on that day at that time.
1354
00:59:51.559 --> 00:59:53.119
So we're going to run a little bit over an
1355
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:54.000
how are you okay with that?
1356
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:55.239
I'm totally okay with that.
1357
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:56.840
If you are, no, it's.
1358
00:59:56.719 --> 00:59:58.599
Okay because you know, again, like I said, I want
1359
00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:01.079
to be generous with your time, but you know, this
1360
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:03.880
is such good stuff, and you know, perhaps i'm beat
1361
01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:05.119
and time management.
1362
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:08.239
But oh well, listen, I'm loving it, okay, in a
1363
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:08.719
great time.
1364
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:10.599
So yeah, let's let's keep going.
1365
01:00:11.079 --> 01:00:12.719
The other thing is too, and I me post this
1366
01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:14.559
again come Christmas time. But one of the things I
1367
01:00:15.079 --> 01:00:17.639
you know, the thing about World War One is comparatively
1368
01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:24.920
it was much more brutal and emotionally I think distressing
1369
01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:28.840
to the populations because they did not realize prior to
1370
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:32.719
this war how recognized and how much more efficient killing
1371
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:37.119
technology had gotten. And so even though World War Two
1372
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:40.880
was brutal also and much more widespread, still the whole
1373
01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:43.239
shock to I think the collective.
1374
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:45.920
Human experience was extreme.
1375
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:49.679
And I'm just wondering if one believes and such and
1376
01:00:49.760 --> 01:00:52.239
I happened too, whether or not there was some kind
1377
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:54.840
of intervention back then. It said, are you guys sure
1378
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:57.079
you want to go on this tack? And probably the
1379
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.679
answer was like, yeah, we got to and so okay
1380
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:02.400
with Drew and here we go, you know, with World
1381
01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:06.119
War two and beyond. Just my guess, but I'll say
1382
01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:09.960
this I might put back up on my website come
1383
01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:13.840
Christmas time, the contents of a letter that was found
1384
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.920
from I think a British soldier finding somewhere in France
1385
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.880
or Germany about the day they called the truce from
1386
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.840
Christmas through New Year's and went out and played soccer
1387
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:26.400
with the Germans. Oh wow, and drank and ate with
1388
01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:29.280
the Germans, and everybody's saying, what this really sucks?
1389
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:30.239
Why do we have to do this?
1390
01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:30.800
Oh?
1391
01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:35.599
Can you imagine that? It really is moving? And I
1392
01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:36.760
think I'll post it again.
1393
01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:40.280
I think Angie, who is affiliated someone with the show
1394
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:43.239
who has a block spot, also ran that. But it
1395
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:45.239
was just amazing when you think about the fact that
1396
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:46.679
you know they could go out and do this and
1397
01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:48.480
then okay, after New Year's it's like, okay, back to
1398
01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:49.639
killing right.
1399
01:01:50.199 --> 01:01:53.880
Well, it's heartbreaking, Andrea, Yes, it is what's happening today too.
1400
01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:58.400
Yep, And you know it's anyway. But anyway, that was
1401
01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:03.159
a very evocative and long lasting show as far as
1402
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:06.960
it's it's it's an endurance in my in my memory.
1403
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:10.119
Then this one, I don't remember a whole lot about,
1404
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:12.880
but boy, this one was really strange. All I remember
1405
01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:14.679
at the end of the show with these streamers from
1406
01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:18.199
like heaving like toilet paper enrolled that were dangling down
1407
01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:20.079
to the earth. Can you help me out with this one,
1408
01:02:20.119 --> 01:02:21.639
because boy, that one's really vague.
1409
01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:25.239
Well, you know absolutely, you know again, it's kind of
1410
01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:28.719
funny because you picked, you know, out of you sort
1411
01:02:28.719 --> 01:02:31.559
of picked ten that you remembered, you know, and as
1412
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:33.119
I said, there were ninety six, so you picked, you know,
1413
01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:35.840
roughly ten percent, and out of that you picked about
1414
01:02:35.840 --> 01:02:38.000
one episode that was about UFOs and only did one
1415
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:41.119
show and their whole run about aliens and UFOs. Okay
1416
01:02:41.239 --> 01:02:44.280
with that was the episode, and that's from the second season.
1417
01:02:44.679 --> 01:02:47.679
It's the fifty first episode which aired April twelfth, nineteen
1418
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:53.000
sixty one, I think, entitled The Encounter. And yeah, like
1419
01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:54.960
I said, the only show they ever devoted to UFOs.
1420
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.360
And it traumatizes again. A documented case that occurred in
1421
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:03.800
the San Fernando Valley in nineteen fifty three and during
1422
01:03:03.880 --> 01:03:07.280
that time some kind of strange they called it Angel
1423
01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:12.760
hair fell from and dissolving in plain view of many
1424
01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:15.960
eyewitnesses and sort of like the rock fall in Chico.
1425
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:18.679
What we're talking about, here's some sort of anomalous phenomenon.
1426
01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:23.320
And you know, I would just add that other angel
1427
01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:28.079
hair sightings did occur in Porto, Ontario on September twenty sixth,
1428
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:29.000
nineteen forty eight.
1429
01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:30.719
And I don't know if I can pronounce this, but
1430
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:30.960
it's a.
1431
01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:36.159
Japanese town called Iowa Kei on October fourth, nineteen fifty seven.
1432
01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:40.119
So it's interesting that there were three angel hair appearances
1433
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:44.880
between forty eight and fifty seven. And the one Step
1434
01:03:44.920 --> 01:03:50.159
Beyond episode is describing the nineteen fifty three one in
1435
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.760
the San Fernando Valley. So yeah, I mean that that
1436
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:55.719
angel hair was a silky gossamer substance that seemed to
1437
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:59.840
melt very quickly that many people reported seeing. So again
1438
01:03:59.880 --> 01:04:04.400
it was based on eyewitness testimony and you know, events
1439
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.239
that were happening in more than one location.
1440
01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:07.719
Did it see anything?
1441
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:11.480
And again this is I'm trying to you know, you
1442
01:04:11.559 --> 01:04:16.280
know rack my memory was it. I can remember a gentleman,
1443
01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:19.119
a man who was like on some kind of little
1444
01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:20.519
ridge and just like.
1445
01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:22.559
Walking through this like what in the world is this?
1446
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:24.960
I thought he was a pilot. Is that true? Do
1447
01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:25.440
you remember?
1448
01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:28.559
Yeah, because what the episode was about, Encounter was about
1449
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:32.679
a pilot who was abducted, you know, ostensibly by aliens. Yeah,
1450
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:35.199
and then and then returned. But you know, you didn't
1451
01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:36.960
see the aliens and there wasn't any.
1452
01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:41.880
You know, overt reference to them exactly exactly.
1453
01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:45.199
But I thought he had a fly boy, you know,
1454
01:04:45.400 --> 01:04:49.159
leather jacket with their pilot, right, That's what I saw
1455
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:50.000
in my mind's eye.
1456
01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:51.239
Yeah, that's right.
1457
01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:52.599
You know what, I'm scaring me now.
1458
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:55.559
I'm getting off the phone now.
1459
01:04:57.039 --> 01:04:59.760
And again, folks, we want to tell you what's going on.
1460
01:05:00.199 --> 01:05:01.639
But this is John Kenneth's mirror.
1461
01:05:02.079 --> 01:05:05.039
He I don't know. He can typify himself. I would
1462
01:05:05.079 --> 01:05:05.519
say that he.
1463
01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:10.360
Write he's a historian about horror movies and horror TV
1464
01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:11.599
shows and that whole genre.
1465
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:14.280
And one of the ones, the first.
1466
01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:16.800
One that drew me to him, was what he wrote
1467
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:22.239
all those many years ago about the show One Step
1468
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:28.280
Beyond Now on his website. There are numerous books, which
1469
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:31.119
none none of which are going to make anybody turn
1470
01:05:31.159 --> 01:05:33.719
away because it's the stuff that we loved. I mean,
1471
01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.159
I'm sorry, but you know that that was a dream
1472
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:39.280
and that was a time, and we just take that
1473
01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:43.239
stuff up and again, John, anything you want to say
1474
01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:46.480
about the website and the resources that are there, well,
1475
01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:46.840
you know.
1476
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:50.599
I always have jokingly said to my parents, you know,
1477
01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:52.480
I want to make a living by writing about TV
1478
01:05:52.599 --> 01:05:55.360
and film, and you know that that's what I ended
1479
01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:55.760
up doing.
1480
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:59.239
But the things that fascinate me are these things, you know.
1481
01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:02.000
I mean, if I'm to be brutally honest, the things
1482
01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:05.639
that happened between you know, nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty
1483
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:09.400
in particular. I love the you know, very odd and
1484
01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:14.280
luminous and creepy entertainments that came out of the sixties
1485
01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:17.760
and seventies, and you know, so I'm very much devoted
1486
01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:19.360
to that. But you can see I've done horror films
1487
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:22.880
of the seventies, horror films of the eighties, a book
1488
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:25.519
called Terror Television, which looks at all the horror shows
1489
01:06:25.559 --> 01:06:28.920
from nineteen seventy to nineteen ninety nine. But you know,
1490
01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:32.239
I'm just like you, I just love this material. It
1491
01:06:32.360 --> 01:06:34.679
grabs the imagination, yeah it does.
1492
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:37.360
And I am so tempted right now, and this is
1493
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:39.039
not the time to do because we will have two
1494
01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:42.159
hours in a few days to talk about a whole
1495
01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:42.559
lot more.
1496
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:45.719
And Adam go Rightley, a good guy from out in.
1497
01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:49.079
The coast, will chime in on this also because he
1498
01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:53.639
deals with something like this. But actually, unfortunately the real
1499
01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:57.960
terror that was brought by Manson.
1500
01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:00.360
Culs and other things. But I mean, it's all there.
1501
01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:03.119
But right now we're talking to John about his book
1502
01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:07.119
and Analytical guide to Television's One Step Beyond in nineteen
1503
01:07:07.159 --> 01:07:09.440
fifty nine and nineteen sixty one. And boy, I tell
1504
01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:13.119
you what, pound for pound that show still look best. Yeah,
1505
01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:16.039
I agree, I love it all right, we're getting down
1506
01:07:16.039 --> 01:07:19.559
to the end of it. But here's one that, like
1507
01:07:19.639 --> 01:07:24.800
the Ghost of the Giant in that Mexican scenario, that
1508
01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:27.280
one got me a little bit, you know, that was scary.
1509
01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:30.119
All the ones, like I said, I was convicted by
1510
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:32.400
and I'm like, wow, that's weird. And they documented it,
1511
01:07:32.519 --> 01:07:34.559
so things do go bump in the night. This is
1512
01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:37.559
another one that I thought was more distressing than anything else.
1513
01:07:38.199 --> 01:07:40.599
And all I remember is that somebody was possessed by
1514
01:07:40.639 --> 01:07:44.360
a portrait. It was covered up because of the problem,
1515
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:48.880
but when the person died and the portrait was uncovered
1516
01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:52.199
that the portrait had somewhat aged or almost like a
1517
01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:55.519
Dorian gray thing with the person that was possessed by
1518
01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:55.920
the painting.
1519
01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:57.119
Can you set that straight?
1520
01:07:57.760 --> 01:07:59.480
You know, I think this is the only place from
1521
01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:02.719
when there were a couple episodes of One Step Beyond
1522
01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:06.679
about portraits and such, and it sounds, you know, I'm
1523
01:08:06.679 --> 01:08:08.639
not one hundred percent I was sure which one that one,
1524
01:08:08.719 --> 01:08:10.800
but it sounds a little bit like this one called
1525
01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:13.800
Image of Death, which aired in nineteen fifty nine.
1526
01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:14.440
Actually again, it.
1527
01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:16.960
Was an early episode of the show, and it took
1528
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:19.680
place in France in eighteen ninety two. It was about
1529
01:08:19.720 --> 01:08:22.359
this woman who was sort of a common woman and
1530
01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:25.000
she killed a nobleman's wife.
1531
01:08:25.319 --> 01:08:26.239
She poisoned her.
1532
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:32.119
And she became his wife. But she became increasingly paranoid
1533
01:08:32.159 --> 01:08:34.279
about the fact that the place where her portrait had
1534
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:37.239
been hanging there was this stain coming up through it,
1535
01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:39.319
and that like she began to see that it was
1536
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:42.159
the shape of skull or something like that, and like
1537
01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:46.039
she just became increasingly deranged by what was there where
1538
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:49.800
her the woman she had succeeded where her portrait had
1539
01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:50.960
been it just came out.
1540
01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:52.319
But this this skull came there.
1541
01:08:52.359 --> 01:08:55.520
Eventually she drove her herself crazy and died. Now that
1542
01:08:55.600 --> 01:08:57.960
doesn't sound exactly like the one you're saying. I'm wondering
1543
01:08:58.000 --> 01:08:59.680
if I missed the boat on that one. I'm not
1544
01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:04.880
one hundred percent sure doing Okay, all right.
1545
01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:07.600
The deal with what you were just talking about.
1546
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:11.119
I do remember that that she started to rub out
1547
01:09:11.119 --> 01:09:13.399
the stain and you know, and it's hard to take
1548
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:14.560
on the features of.
1549
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:16.760
A face and real quick. One of the things that
1550
01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:18.960
reminded me of that show.
1551
01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:21.800
Although now that song is like so many years gone,
1552
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:24.319
I means thirty years and that was when TENSEC did
1553
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:26.680
a song called I'm Not in Love. He says he
1554
01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:30.319
hangs a picture up because it hides a nasty stain
1555
01:09:30.439 --> 01:09:33.319
that's lying there. And of course that's what happened I
1556
01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:35.720
think in that show, wasn't it that there was a
1557
01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:40.119
photo over this spot that sorted to take.
1558
01:09:40.039 --> 01:09:42.000
On some kind of countenance. Is that correct?
1559
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:42.760
Absolutely?
1560
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:44.760
It sounds like that song could have been written about
1561
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:46.840
imship death because it was. It was the portrait of
1562
01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:49.640
the dead wife and Andrew was coming up that skull. Yeah,
1563
01:09:49.800 --> 01:09:52.760
so all right, sounds exactly like it. That's funny, all right.
1564
01:09:52.680 --> 01:09:54.640
Well, you know who knows. But I mean, like I said,
1565
01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:57.960
there are no coincidences on the Chriss you know. Anyway,
1566
01:09:58.399 --> 01:10:01.760
next up if we could, And that's another thing I remember,
1567
01:10:01.840 --> 01:10:04.640
and that is some kind of phantom jockey that won
1568
01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:05.039
a race.
1569
01:10:05.960 --> 01:10:06.159
Yeah.
1570
01:10:06.439 --> 01:10:09.399
This was an episode from June of nineteen fifty nine
1571
01:10:09.479 --> 01:10:11.880
called front Runner, and it was the story of a
1572
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:16.039
jockey's apparition, a man who was wrong. A jockey comes
1573
01:10:16.119 --> 01:10:19.640
back from the dead and basically denies another jockey his victory,
1574
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:22.399
and then they find out like that jockey the ghost
1575
01:10:22.439 --> 01:10:25.239
had died like a day earlier or something like that,
1576
01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:28.960
so he really was dead when he won the race. Now,
1577
01:10:29.039 --> 01:10:31.479
I found no evidence of that particular event, but I
1578
01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:34.239
did run across a horse racing story, which I think
1579
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:36.520
is sort of indicative of how One Step Beyond does things.
1580
01:10:36.640 --> 01:10:40.239
That it takes a certain world like horse racing, and
1581
01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:42.279
then we'll do a story like this and the details
1582
01:10:42.279 --> 01:10:45.119
of the story aren't always absolutely accurate what the concepts are.
1583
01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:48.520
And this story un quoting, it's about the owner of
1584
01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:50.720
a horse had a dream in which he saw his
1585
01:10:50.840 --> 01:10:54.039
own horse winning the Melbourne Cup in two weeks. But
1586
01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:56.479
there was something else in that dream. His jockey in
1587
01:10:56.600 --> 01:10:59.800
the dream was wearing a black armband. So the owner
1588
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:02.760
everybody he knew about the dream, and and they all
1589
01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:04.800
testified to the fact that he told them about this dream.
1590
01:11:04.840 --> 01:11:07.640
It was well documented. Everyone knew about it. So flash
1591
01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:10.600
forward to two weeks later. The owner's horse did win
1592
01:11:10.680 --> 01:11:13.399
the Melbourne Cup and the jockey did wear an armband.
1593
01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:16.000
But do you want to know why this is crazy?
1594
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:18.119
He was mourning the owner's death, who had passed away
1595
01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:20.119
in the intervening two weeks since he had the dream
1596
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:22.560
and told everyone about it. So the black armband the
1597
01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:25.000
owner imagined was for his own death zone.
1598
01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:27.680
Yeah, that's not for whom the bill tolls.
1599
01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:28.439
Yeah exactly.
1600
01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:30.560
I mean that is just the class like one step beyond.
1601
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:32.439
I mean that, you know, that's the stuff that you know,
1602
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:33.960
you don't want to think about the mill the night,
1603
01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:34.199
you know.
1604
01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:39.000
Yeah, now, this one pretty much has been dismissed. And
1605
01:11:39.039 --> 01:11:41.319
the ones that I picked out I think also it
1606
01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:44.520
would seem from the pattern that I've created, have been
1607
01:11:44.600 --> 01:11:47.479
those that seem to have some kind of basis in fact.
1608
01:11:47.960 --> 01:11:50.000
Yeah, those seem to have been ones that really resonated
1609
01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:52.239
with you. I noticed that when I went through that again,
1610
01:11:52.319 --> 01:11:54.439
the ten you selected out of the ninety six were
1611
01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:57.680
ones that seemed to be like the most true to life,
1612
01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:00.760
real life where they had witnesses, where they had documentation.
1613
01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:02.560
And you know, it's stunning to me that those are
1614
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:04.119
the ones you remember, because that must mean that even
1615
01:12:04.119 --> 01:12:05.840
when you were a very young man, you were hooked
1616
01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:09.159
into that kind of idea that you know that you
1617
01:12:09.279 --> 01:12:10.399
wanted it to be real, you.
1618
01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:10.840
Know what I mean?
1619
01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:14.319
Well, and also that that indeed things do go bumping
1620
01:12:14.359 --> 01:12:16.960
the night right right, you know, And then.
1621
01:12:17.119 --> 01:12:18.159
You know, here's the evidence.
1622
01:12:18.279 --> 01:12:20.840
You know that you know, even back then you were
1623
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:22.880
looking to see if it was real and looking for
1624
01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:25.399
that evidence. So that that that you know that probably
1625
01:12:25.439 --> 01:12:27.840
the after psychology keeper and then.
1626
01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:32.880
We don't want to talk about that right now, do we. Well,
1627
01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:33.960
and here's another one.
1628
01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:36.279
And you did state before we got on that this
1629
01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:38.720
was the week the week wink and that is and
1630
01:12:39.119 --> 01:12:41.439
it it seem such that somebody who's playing some kind
1631
01:12:41.439 --> 01:12:42.920
of game, I don't know what game this would be,
1632
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:47.399
who took on the the I guess the familiar spirit
1633
01:12:47.479 --> 01:12:50.600
if you would, of of the object he was in
1634
01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:53.079
the game. Uh, And you know, I mean, you think
1635
01:12:53.119 --> 01:12:55.640
folks about you know, playing board games and stuff.
1636
01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:56.520
So I should take on a.
1637
01:12:56.520 --> 01:13:01.119
Personage or whatever with somebody who suddenly turned into what
1638
01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:04.359
I called a big game cat. And you did nail
1639
01:13:04.399 --> 01:13:06.039
this one. And you think this one is a little
1640
01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:08.239
bit you know out there too, right, yeah, I do.
1641
01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:09.279
You know, it's funny.
1642
01:13:09.399 --> 01:13:11.319
You remember it exactly right. It was a big game cat.
1643
01:13:11.399 --> 01:13:13.800
I think it was a tiger. It was a story
1644
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:17.840
from January nineteen January nineteen, nineteen sixty. It was entitled
1645
01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:20.880
Forest of the Night for that poet, that poem by
1646
01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:24.840
William Blake, you know, Tiger Tiger Burning, And it's about
1647
01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:26.880
a hunter who plays a game and it's a Chinese
1648
01:13:26.920 --> 01:13:30.239
a cult game called Confucius's Book of Changes. So that's
1649
01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:33.319
the game they were playing. And one hunter's icon is
1650
01:13:33.439 --> 01:13:36.439
that of a tiger. And I found like a lot
1651
01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:39.279
of really great literary references in the episode to like
1652
01:13:39.399 --> 01:13:42.920
Rudyrid kid blaying and William Blake, right, And you know,
1653
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:45.079
I looked into the Book of Changes, which is considered
1654
01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:48.960
a work of divination and it's been often mistranslated. And
1655
01:13:49.199 --> 01:13:51.920
Confucius did believe in the world of spirits. But I
1656
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:55.199
can't find anything that ties that to any event, any
1657
01:13:55.680 --> 01:13:58.800
sort of paranormal event where somebody takes on you know
1658
01:13:58.960 --> 01:14:01.680
that that hear into becomes a tiger and sort of
1659
01:14:01.760 --> 01:14:04.840
runs wild, which is what the theme of the episode was.
1660
01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:07.479
So yeah that, I mean, you know, that was one
1661
01:14:07.520 --> 01:14:10.920
that was sort of more overtly fictional, but it's also
1662
01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:12.159
a very memorable episode.
1663
01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:12.640
Yeah it was.
1664
01:14:13.159 --> 01:14:16.159
And the guy who was the lead character in that
1665
01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:19.279
was kind of like a smallish, you know, schlumpy guy
1666
01:14:19.319 --> 01:14:22.760
you could smack around, you know, and then you can think, well,
1667
01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:24.319
this is you know, you could see you know in
1668
01:14:24.399 --> 01:14:28.279
the characters, you know, thinking that heres his chance to
1669
01:14:28.359 --> 01:14:28.960
be something.
1670
01:14:28.840 --> 01:14:29.880
Feared, you know, right.
1671
01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:34.359
And that's another guy who has who appeared in more
1672
01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:36.680
than one one step beyond episode.
1673
01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:38.600
I know he did. And he also made the rounds
1674
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:42.359
again in the fifties TV series Let Me.
1675
01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:43.000
See, I Think Fair.
1676
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:44.920
I'm I'm an dig through the index of my boat,
1677
01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:46.199
can see if I find out who that guy.
1678
01:14:46.319 --> 01:14:50.319
I bet you he has somewhat of an Irish surname
1679
01:14:51.319 --> 01:14:52.600
like Shawn to see is something like that?
1680
01:14:53.239 --> 01:14:56.199
Going to page one twenty here first of the nine
1681
01:14:56.239 --> 01:14:58.159
let me see h.
1682
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:00.359
We have.
1683
01:15:02.680 --> 01:15:05.680
Ted's icons out of a tiger and Ted was Alfred
1684
01:15:05.800 --> 01:15:09.920
Ryder and he was playing a character named Ted Ted Dolliver.
1685
01:15:10.880 --> 01:15:13.279
H So that's a gentleman rider.
1686
01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:15.760
Yeah, Alfred Ryder r y d Er.
1687
01:15:16.039 --> 01:15:16.359
All right.
1688
01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:20.000
I've been of people put in a search engine on IMDb.
1689
01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:21.920
They'll come up with a whole bunch of stuff. He
1690
01:15:21.960 --> 01:15:23.880
did in the fifty sixty TV Well, I.
1691
01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:25.560
Was going to tell you, you know, because I'm a
1692
01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:26.720
crazy fan of this stuff.
1693
01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:29.119
He was in a Star Trek episode called the Man Trap,
1694
01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:33.319
and he was in an Invader episode but.
1695
01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:34.600
I can't remember the title. Love it?
1696
01:15:34.920 --> 01:15:37.159
Okay, all right, you're right.
1697
01:15:37.319 --> 01:15:38.520
He was in a lot definitely.
1698
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:42.600
All right. Now, this one again I got as I
1699
01:15:42.680 --> 01:15:44.880
thought back to it, you know, I gained a little
1700
01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:47.039
more memory about it, and you can email it.
1701
01:15:47.079 --> 01:15:49.680
You're saying, well, a pens something, because this is what happened.
1702
01:15:50.079 --> 01:15:53.560
It was a woman who was dead who saved her son.
1703
01:15:55.239 --> 01:15:56.760
Now this is another This is actually one of my
1704
01:15:56.800 --> 01:15:59.720
favorite episodes in One Step Down two. It's titled Epilogue,
1705
01:16:00.039 --> 01:16:01.720
and it was only the sixth episode of the series.
1706
01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:04.399
Again, you must have really started watching the show fairly early.
1707
01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:06.760
This was February twenty fourth, nineteen fifty nine, so six
1708
01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:09.520
weeks then you were watching. Involved in this was a
1709
01:16:09.560 --> 01:16:12.199
woman named Helen and her little boy Stevie, and together
1710
01:16:12.319 --> 01:16:14.600
they became trapped in a mind during a cave in.
1711
01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:17.199
The mother Helen died in the rock ball, but her
1712
01:16:17.239 --> 01:16:20.680
son Stevie was alive. So the crisis apparition of Helen
1713
01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:23.600
appeared to her alcoholic husband, Karl Archer was his name,
1714
01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:26.199
imploring him to save their son. But the problem is,
1715
01:16:26.600 --> 01:16:28.279
you know, this was attention of the episode. Carl is
1716
01:16:28.319 --> 01:16:31.560
an alcoholic, so a psychiatrist doesn't believe him. His psychiatrist
1717
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:33.560
was played by William Shaler, another one of those great
1718
01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:38.119
faces of you know sixties in elevasion and film. But yeah,
1719
01:16:38.119 --> 01:16:40.439
I mean it's the story of a crisis apparition, a
1720
01:16:40.520 --> 01:16:43.640
manifestation of someone at or near the time of death,
1721
01:16:44.239 --> 01:16:46.359
and in most cases the person who sees the apparition
1722
01:16:46.479 --> 01:16:48.800
isn't aware that the real person is dead. So again,
1723
01:16:49.199 --> 01:16:52.319
this wasn't like built on a specific incident, but it
1724
01:16:52.520 --> 01:16:56.479
like accurately portrayed what the literature was on the idea
1725
01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:59.439
of a crisis apparition. You know, it got every element
1726
01:16:59.479 --> 01:17:02.520
of the story, but it wasn't actually based on you know,
1727
01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:05.880
some specific happening, and we talked about this when we
1728
01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:08.520
talked a little earlier. But the woman was the created
1729
01:17:08.520 --> 01:17:11.560
apparition was Helen was played by Julie Adams, who was
1730
01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:14.760
the starlet of Creature from The Black You I think,
1731
01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:15.720
a movie we both love.
1732
01:17:16.359 --> 01:17:19.159
Oh yeah, And again, I mean she was a very
1733
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:22.359
good looking woman, you know, you know again in black
1734
01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:23.920
and white. I mean it looked like she had rown
1735
01:17:24.039 --> 01:17:27.479
hair or whatever. But she appeared in so many things
1736
01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:30.600
like seventy seven Sunset Strip and all this other stuff,
1737
01:17:31.479 --> 01:17:35.840
and she was in that particular segment and I can
1738
01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:38.359
still see her, you know, I can still.
1739
01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:42.119
See her in just certain frames of that show.
1740
01:17:42.600 --> 01:17:44.319
And like I said, that was a hard one for
1741
01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:47.000
me to recall because I had written something to you
1742
01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:48.600
and then I changed and they said no, no, no, no,
1743
01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:51.039
this is what it is. And I can still see
1744
01:17:51.079 --> 01:17:53.760
her an address and all that stuff. And man, you know,
1745
01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:56.159
I mean I almost thought too, let me say this,
1746
01:17:57.199 --> 01:18:00.079
you I thought she lifted a car off him, but
1747
01:18:00.199 --> 01:18:02.399
it was actually she got him out from underneath rocks.
1748
01:18:03.079 --> 01:18:05.760
I think. So now again, remember I'll watch the episode.
1749
01:18:05.800 --> 01:18:06.199
That's all right.
1750
01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:10.119
That's where I gleaned from my notes. Although that sounds
1751
01:18:10.159 --> 01:18:12.119
awfully familiar to you know. There was another episode of
1752
01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:14.920
One Tip Beyond that might be a called Emergency now
1753
01:18:15.039 --> 01:18:16.920
like it was just you know, it's called twelve Hours
1754
01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:19.720
to Live about a guy, a husband who was in
1755
01:18:19.760 --> 01:18:22.239
a car that went off a cliff and like they
1756
01:18:22.279 --> 01:18:23.640
had to get him out of the car, you know,
1757
01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:25.520
and that one might be the one you're thinking about
1758
01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:27.239
with the car again.
1759
01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:30.840
And listen, I really appreciate your patience. I was hanging
1760
01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:32.279
with me on this and a lot of this is,
1761
01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:36.520
as folks should know, is being done, you know, extemporaneously,
1762
01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:39.399
because that's the way we wanted it. And I don't
1763
01:18:39.439 --> 01:18:41.920
know what it says about my malform brain, but it does.
1764
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:43.520
It's something.
1765
01:18:44.079 --> 01:18:45.279
But these things are in there.
1766
01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:47.359
Yeah, episodes are in there.
1767
01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:51.600
And you know, I have a conspiracy site and I
1768
01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:53.880
you know, and a lot of people say, well, let's
1769
01:18:53.920 --> 01:18:56.439
you know, it's no, it's not theory, folks. The thing is, yeah,
1770
01:18:56.479 --> 01:18:58.199
there was something in my lifetime where I wanted to
1771
01:18:58.239 --> 01:19:01.199
take a look and actually say, look, something's not right here.
1772
01:19:01.680 --> 01:19:03.600
I've got a lot of things in my life that
1773
01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:06.119
I've encountered and it doesn't job with what we've been
1774
01:19:06.159 --> 01:19:08.199
told and that's not the thrust of the show. But
1775
01:19:08.359 --> 01:19:10.039
I mean, obviously, for a lot of people who've been
1776
01:19:10.079 --> 01:19:12.479
listening to this show for low these six years are
1777
01:19:12.560 --> 01:19:14.640
now saying, so this is where you got your roots.
1778
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:15.199
I'm busy.
1779
01:19:16.840 --> 01:19:19.039
Well, it's fascinating if you think about it. I mean really,
1780
01:19:19.159 --> 01:19:22.079
I mean, because obviously what this did was it's you know,
1781
01:19:22.279 --> 01:19:25.279
there's a lot of validation and legitimacy in one step
1782
01:19:25.359 --> 01:19:27.840
beyond for these things. You know, it's not saying this
1783
01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:30.439
is hokum. It's not saying, you know, this is crazy.
1784
01:19:30.479 --> 01:19:32.560
What it's saying is that this is a science we
1785
01:19:32.600 --> 01:19:33.560
don't yet understanding.
1786
01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:34.760
Look, you know, prove it.
1787
01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:36.760
We cannot just prove it. We cannot.
1788
01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:38.520
But here we're going to chronicle it, and we're going
1789
01:19:38.560 --> 01:19:39.600
to chronicle it as.
1790
01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:42.399
Accurately as we can with the knowledge we have today.
1791
01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:45.119
And I mean, I think that's to me, that's something
1792
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:47.800
that is, you know, just extremely fascinating. And I can
1793
01:19:47.840 --> 01:19:50.399
see why that would, you know, be something that would
1794
01:19:50.520 --> 01:19:52.840
would trigger your mind into thinking that way, you know,
1795
01:19:52.960 --> 01:19:55.359
I mean, it was a very open minded show. You know.
1796
01:19:55.760 --> 01:19:57.560
Oh, I'm sorry that.
1797
01:19:59.079 --> 01:20:01.479
John has a family and you just heard from one.
1798
01:20:01.399 --> 01:20:06.000
Of the right defend two year old boy Joel.
1799
01:20:06.199 --> 01:20:09.319
All right, you have two children.
1800
01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:11.399
I just have I just have one son.
1801
01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:14.159
He's two years Well, he'll be two years old in October.
1802
01:20:14.600 --> 01:20:16.479
He's one of the lights of my life.
1803
01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:18.119
With what long? Okay, Well, I just had a premonition,
1804
01:20:18.199 --> 01:20:19.279
you're gonna have a girl next.
1805
01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:20.319
Oh my gosh.
1806
01:20:20.359 --> 01:20:21.800
We want we want to have another cut child, and
1807
01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:23.800
we really want a girl. So I hope that both
1808
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:25.920
here we go. All right, all right, I'm gonna be
1809
01:20:25.960 --> 01:20:28.760
checking back in with you in about six.
1810
01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:29.479
Eight nine months.
1811
01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:30.199
Right.
1812
01:20:31.039 --> 01:20:32.720
One other thing, and this is really sketchy, and this
1813
01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:34.039
the last one I'll pop on you.
1814
01:20:34.720 --> 01:20:34.840
Uh.
1815
01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:36.960
And that was there was some show where I remember
1816
01:20:37.039 --> 01:20:40.399
Newman talking about by location, but I cannot remember the show,
1817
01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:42.760
and that would be involved with somebody who was in
1818
01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:45.479
two places at the same time. Where I do remember
1819
01:20:45.479 --> 01:20:48.000
it is wrapped after the fact, which I felt very compelling.
1820
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:51.159
I do not remember the fodder of, you know, the
1821
01:20:51.239 --> 01:20:54.079
story itself. Did you come up with anything about to
1822
01:20:54.119 --> 01:20:54.680
buy a location?
1823
01:20:55.239 --> 01:20:57.479
Yeah, you know, One step Beyond did a couple episodes
1824
01:20:57.520 --> 01:21:00.760
just sort of orbited around the idea of location. So
1825
01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:03.399
I came across two one is called the Return of
1826
01:21:03.479 --> 01:21:06.439
Mitchell Campion, and that's one you might more accurately think
1827
01:21:06.520 --> 01:21:08.680
of as an out of body experience, I mean, which
1828
01:21:08.720 --> 01:21:11.479
is technically by location, because the body seems to be
1829
01:21:11.520 --> 01:21:14.560
in two places at once. That's where somebody's undergoing surgery
1830
01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:16.520
and also sort of has you know, goes off and
1831
01:21:16.960 --> 01:21:19.319
has like a romantic affair on an island somewhere, but
1832
01:21:19.359 --> 01:21:20.399
they're actually in surgery.
1833
01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:24.239
The epistection might be talking about his justice.
1834
01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:28.239
You know a third season episode in which a man
1835
01:21:28.359 --> 01:21:30.720
falls asleep in church and it's seen there by all
1836
01:21:30.760 --> 01:21:33.960
the townspeople, but at the same time that he's asleep,
1837
01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:36.840
he's actually across town committing a murder. And you know,
1838
01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:39.000
it's funny because the point of the story is actually
1839
01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:41.760
more legal than parapsychological in this case, like you know,
1840
01:21:42.119 --> 01:21:44.439
he gets like testing Western law, Like, Okay, we know
1841
01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:47.920
this guy, he's confessed to murder, we know he's committed murder,
1842
01:21:48.119 --> 01:21:50.199
but everybody in town saw him in the church at
1843
01:21:50.239 --> 01:21:52.359
the time the murder was committed, so it's like testing
1844
01:21:52.680 --> 01:21:55.119
Western law. And there actually a couple of episodes of
1845
01:21:55.159 --> 01:21:57.560
One Step Beyond that did that, and you know, again,
1846
01:21:57.760 --> 01:21:59.119
I just have to go back and say, I think
1847
01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:02.119
that was very four word thinking, because again, the idea
1848
01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:04.439
of one step beyond is that we're chronicling this thing
1849
01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:06.920
that we don't really have good science for, but someday
1850
01:22:06.960 --> 01:22:09.520
we will have the science for, and someday we will
1851
01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:11.960
be able to explain these things. And so what it
1852
01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:14.359
was saying is that, you know what if this goes
1853
01:22:14.399 --> 01:22:16.399
into a legal venue, you know what happens then, So
1854
01:22:16.399 --> 01:22:18.439
it was really a speculating like, you know what what
1855
01:22:18.600 --> 01:22:23.279
could happen? You know, if you know somebody who by located,
1856
01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:25.319
you know, was accused of murder, could you prove that
1857
01:22:25.479 --> 01:22:28.640
in court? Which I think was a fascinating idea and
1858
01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:31.720
well ahead of his son. So yeah, yeah, that was
1859
01:22:32.279 --> 01:22:34.319
I think I think you were probably thinking of justice,
1860
01:22:34.359 --> 01:22:38.000
but it might have been Mitchell Campion and real quick.
1861
01:22:38.000 --> 01:22:39.159
And you have to speak to this because I know
1862
01:22:39.239 --> 01:22:40.520
I didn't give you a heads up on that. But
1863
01:22:40.600 --> 01:22:44.039
when we were talking about the Phantom Jockey, then you know,
1864
01:22:44.159 --> 01:22:46.119
again these things are just emerging, which I think is
1865
01:22:46.119 --> 01:22:47.840
a pretty cool process and I thank you for being
1866
01:22:48.319 --> 01:22:50.960
involved in that. But there was one where there was
1867
01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:53.560
a boxer also that got involved with finding some ghosts.
1868
01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:56.119
There was a ghost in this stands I think was
1869
01:22:56.199 --> 01:22:58.239
during World War two Britain. Does that ring a bell
1870
01:22:58.279 --> 01:22:58.520
at all?
1871
01:22:58.920 --> 01:22:59.039
Oh?
1872
01:22:59.119 --> 01:23:01.039
Good lord, you were you are really good?
1873
01:23:01.079 --> 01:23:01.159
You know.
1874
01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:03.439
You know what I'm gonna tell you is that Charles Bronson.
1875
01:23:03.159 --> 01:23:05.520
Was in that episode How to Be a Boxer?
1876
01:23:05.640 --> 01:23:06.479
Right, I'm pretty sure.
1877
01:23:06.640 --> 01:23:08.439
Let me let me just I'm gonna check my inn.
1878
01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:10.960
That's okay. It was a ghost of somebody and he
1879
01:23:11.119 --> 01:23:13.439
saw him in I mean, that's what's coming back.
1880
01:23:13.520 --> 01:23:15.920
He saw him in this It's called The Last Round
1881
01:23:17.319 --> 01:23:20.239
January tenth, nineteen sixty one, and this is what I
1882
01:23:20.319 --> 01:23:22.640
wrote about it in the book I Slightly Past his Prime.
1883
01:23:22.680 --> 01:23:25.960
Boxer living in England during World War Two, encounters the
1884
01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:29.960
ghost of another boxer, a former a famous former middleweight
1885
01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:32.560
champion named Patty, who now appears only two fighters about
1886
01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:35.319
to die in their ring. Although Patty's appearance is thought
1887
01:23:35.359 --> 01:23:38.399
to be a hoax, they take a twit strange twist
1888
01:23:38.439 --> 01:23:40.279
when four people distinctly see.
1889
01:23:40.159 --> 01:23:42.239
Patty sitting in the back row of the arena.
1890
01:23:42.800 --> 01:23:45.199
You remember that one too, Yeah, that's called the Last
1891
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:47.800
Round and it was the ghost Patty. I'm not sure
1892
01:23:47.840 --> 01:23:49.840
who played him, but was it Charles Bronson was the
1893
01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:52.000
guy who saw him was the boxer who saw him.
1894
01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:55.199
So yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
1895
01:23:55.279 --> 01:23:58.079
And that one, you you know, was plucked out of
1896
01:23:58.159 --> 01:24:00.720
center because of what you say spoke about with the
1897
01:24:00.800 --> 01:24:03.960
Famom jockey. That one was just birth by itself, and
1898
01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:06.159
there's others out there. The only thing I will say
1899
01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:10.079
to you is that in the late eighties there were
1900
01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:14.399
some one Step Beyon shows that were just being broadcasted
1901
01:24:14.439 --> 01:24:15.479
by an independent station.
1902
01:24:16.199 --> 01:24:18.479
And there were some, and they kept rerunning them.
1903
01:24:18.520 --> 01:24:21.399
But I mean, that's the only goose I would have
1904
01:24:21.479 --> 01:24:25.720
gotten with what I remembered from fifty nine to sixty one.
1905
01:24:26.319 --> 01:24:28.479
And it's interesting from what you said, how many of
1906
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:32.439
those remembrances of mine were from fifty nine, sixty and
1907
01:24:32.479 --> 01:24:35.479
sixty one. As I got older also, you know what
1908
01:24:35.560 --> 01:24:39.239
I mean, right, and got more cerebrally perhaps developed.
1909
01:24:39.479 --> 01:24:43.039
We hope not always the case.
1910
01:24:43.119 --> 01:24:47.680
But you know, John, I gotta thank you so much
1911
01:24:48.479 --> 01:24:52.119
for you know, just you know, dealing with me in
1912
01:24:52.399 --> 01:24:55.199
this whole situation, but also because I was glad I
1913
01:24:55.279 --> 01:24:58.399
found somebody who could harken back in time to a show.
1914
01:24:58.439 --> 01:25:00.279
I still think that, like I said, was a p
1915
01:25:00.439 --> 01:25:01.880
probably the best there ever was on TV.
1916
01:25:02.560 --> 01:25:05.000
Well, listen I have totally enjoyed this. I mean, this
1917
01:25:05.079 --> 01:25:06.760
has been like a memory lane for me.
1918
01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:08.760
I have to say that, you know, it's been a
1919
01:25:08.840 --> 01:25:12.560
delight talking with you, and also that it's just really
1920
01:25:12.680 --> 01:25:15.920
nice to revisit one step beyond. I probably had more
1921
01:25:16.039 --> 01:25:18.720
fun writing that book than any other book I did,
1922
01:25:18.760 --> 01:25:21.920
because it took me out of my daily routine.
1923
01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:23.119
You know, I wasn't just writing.
1924
01:25:22.880 --> 01:25:26.000
About camera and goals. I wasn't, you know, I got
1925
01:25:26.039 --> 01:25:27.920
to do this other thing, which is what I decided
1926
01:25:27.960 --> 01:25:30.960
when I started writing the book that if John Newland
1927
01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:36.279
went to all the trouble to try to showcase these ideas,
1928
01:25:36.399 --> 01:25:40.119
these paranormal ideas accurately, then I, as a writer, had
1929
01:25:40.159 --> 01:25:43.039
to take the trouble to actually try to determine if
1930
01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:45.800
he succeeded or not. So I got to research psychic
1931
01:25:45.880 --> 01:25:48.560
phenomena for this book, which is you know, not you know,
1932
01:25:48.640 --> 01:25:50.119
that's not what I usually do every day. You know,
1933
01:25:50.199 --> 01:25:52.800
I write you know, treaties on you know, Star Wars,
1934
01:25:53.239 --> 01:25:55.560
and you know, you know what I'm saying. It's like,
1935
01:25:55.760 --> 01:25:58.000
So it was it was a fascinating thing for me
1936
01:25:58.119 --> 01:26:01.159
to be able to talk about the paranormal and to
1937
01:26:01.279 --> 01:26:04.840
research the paranormal and even more of a thrill then
1938
01:26:04.880 --> 01:26:06.319
for me to be able to go back today with
1939
01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:08.760
you and and talk about some of the things that
1940
01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:09.560
I found.
1941
01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:13.600
All right, And folks, also remember you'll be able to
1942
01:26:13.720 --> 01:26:18.680
access the transcript of John Mure's conversation with John Newland,
1943
01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:22.039
which is priceless. Also, and for you folks who listen
1944
01:26:22.119 --> 01:26:24.199
to the show, who gets popped up in this but
1945
01:26:24.319 --> 01:26:28.720
boohrick And that's another whole interesting situation. So by all means,
1946
01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:30.960
go to that side, take a look at that, and
1947
01:26:31.399 --> 01:26:34.479
also all the books that he is out there. Because John,
1948
01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:37.600
you'll be back on Friday the twenty seventh, and we're
1949
01:26:37.640 --> 01:26:40.119
gonna talk. We're gonna unleash the hounds and talk about
1950
01:26:40.119 --> 01:26:45.960
the whole nine yards of wonderful you know, looney horror movies,
1951
01:26:46.359 --> 01:26:48.640
horror shows and local venues, the whole nine yards.
1952
01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:49.239
Is that correct?
1953
01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:50.680
That sounds great?
1954
01:26:51.560 --> 01:26:55.119
Boy? Yeah, that's it. There's no more of a fitting
1955
01:26:56.520 --> 01:26:58.800
venue than it would be for a late Friday night.
1956
01:26:59.439 --> 01:26:59.920
That's great.
1957
01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:02.119
I can't wait.
1958
01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:04.399
All right, listen, John, thanks a lot again, I appreciate it.
1959
01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:08.039
Thanks a lot also to your family for holding wraps.
1960
01:27:07.800 --> 01:27:10.720
Down on the young son. And you're gonna have a
1961
01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:12.319
daughter and don't worry about it.
1962
01:27:14.279 --> 01:27:16.199
Thank you so much, kid, this with a laugh.
1963
01:27:16.319 --> 01:27:18.000
Thank you, Well, it ain't over yet and we'll see
1964
01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:18.760
you in a couple of days.
1965
01:27:19.079 --> 01:27:19.560
Soun's good.
1966
01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:21.000
God bless you. I have a safe weekend.
1967
01:27:21.039 --> 01:27:23.159
Bro, God bless you too. That was great. Thank you.
1968
01:27:23.239 --> 01:27:24.680
Bye okay, bye bye