Speaker 2: Welcome to Why Authors Write. I'm your host, Mary J. Cronin, and in this episode, I'm delighted to be talking to Jessica Brilliant Keener, who is a lifelong author of multiple articles, short stories, and novels. Most recently, Evening Begins the Day, which is a story of lives and relationships in crisis the search of the characters for hope and healing. Jessica, thanks so much ⁓ joining us to talk about why and how you wrote Evening Begins the Day.
Speaker 1: ⁓ thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. So in this case, the thing that was haunting me was broken trust and betrayal. And so I wanted to explore those things deeply ⁓ honestly, I hoped, ⁓ it's, ⁓ think, one of the most difficult things to recover from. And it does come in all kinds of forms. It can be in your friendships, know, someone you think is your best friend and then suddenly they do something or they've been doing something behind your back or in your family, relationship with parent and child. Obviously in this book too, have marital infidelity. That's common and universal, but what's it about? So I wanted to really dig in to those things. I wanted to get behind why people do things that hurt other people. ⁓ you know, how intentional, if it's not intentional, the whys and the hows. So that's kind of what got me going with this novel. And then, you know, the characters are what lead the way for me.
Speaker 2: I loved your book. I was hooked on the very first page. It's wonderful opening, ⁓ sad and wonderful at the same time. And I'm sure I'm not the only one of your readers who actually had never heard about the counting of Omer as a spiritual practice. So one of my first questions is, how did you decide And why did you decide that that would be so central in the story of, as you said, relationships and trust, broken trust? ⁓ What role has that played in your own life, if any? And why did you decide that was going to be the centerpiece of this particular book?
Speaker 1: So after I had written a draft and I had my characters and pretty much sort of the issues and the dilemmas and some of the scenes, I just felt I wanted another layer to add to the book. So the Count in the Omer actually came later. In fact, I had never heard of it. ⁓ And it was one of those happy accidents, I think, that happened hopefully for all writers. But when that happens to me, when I feel that there's something that there's something missing and I want another layer, add some more depth, and I don't know what it is. I will kind of just put that question out to myself or the universe per se and trust that I'll figure it out. I went to meet a friend of mine for a walk, another writer, and we, as usual, were talking about our novels and I was then relating the story about Nate. and how touched I was and she said, know, that sort of makes me think of the Counting the Omer. And I don't know if it was because it was spring when I was talking to her and it already started because it happens every spring ⁓ for 49 days. ⁓ And I was like, what is that? And I'm Jewish, grew up Jewish, went to Sunday school and she started explaining, ⁓ it's this tradition, ⁓ seven weeks, it has these Kabbalistic themes to it, which of course I had heard of the Kabbalah and... I said, ⁓ my God, you know, I've been sort of looking for this kind of spiritual thing aspect to my novel. You know, I got to find out more about this. It was just this way of counting each day. A very simple thing every night at sunset. You say it's day one, week one, and then the second day it's day two of week one, and you do that all for 49 days, and it just so happens that for some they give each day a Kabbalistic attribute like charity or loving kindness, and you start, and then you can start to think about how those things play out in your own life. Like, was I charitable, or what does charity even mean? So I thought, maybe all my characters, this could be a nice sort of connecting. fabric for all my characters.
Speaker 2: It's interesting and wonderful to hear that it wasn't there in your original framing of the book or storyline and that you sought it out from Friends and the universe in some way and found exactly the spiritual deepness that you wanted to bring the book together and it serves that role. I love how you use it in a lightweight but very important way. And if you don't mind, I'd like to shift gears a little bit to how you do it. How did you get from that spark of inspiration to that final draft and then through publication? And I would love it if you would talk about that day-to-day routine in as much detail as you could stand so that you open that part of the book for us.
Speaker 1: I start with, you know, the first draft is always, I would say, the hardest draft for me. Just getting something on the page. So I have found that if I give myself ⁓ sort of a writing parameters, and what I do is 500 words a day. And it doesn't sound like a lot, ⁓ but I have to do it every day, at least five days. ⁓ So five out of the seven days, have to do 500 words. ⁓ So that adds up to already a week, 2,500. And you start to realize after nine months, I'll have a draft. So that's how I keep myself going ⁓ so that it doesn't feel like an endless sea that I've just stepped into with no end. I'm not the plotter person. I have tried writing an outline ahead of time. It does not work for me. It sort of takes the joy of writing away, ⁓ the joy of discovering. And that's just me. ⁓ Whatever works for anybody is great. But for me, I have to discover it as I'm writing. I guess you could call me a more of an experiential learner. So ⁓ it's in the morning. I'm best with a new draft in the morning. ⁓ You know, get up. get the coffee or the tea now, and ⁓ sit down and just get words on the page. Once I get those words on the page, those words bring out other words. Suddenly, I'm in there, I'm starting to think about it for the rest of the day, sleeping. It starts to become, I embody it, you could say. And I do think the continuity is important. That's why, especially with a novel, sticking with it. I just try to get myself excited. ⁓ my goodness, now I've got 5,000 words and then by the end of the month I've got 10,000 words. And then it starts to, you know, other thoughts come out. I start to have ideas about other characters or scenes and I use file cards, old-fashioned file cards. I love file cards. So I will jot down, you know, what my characters look like, what do I want to call them? ⁓ And I spend a fair amount of time with names, finding names that... feel resonate, you know, for me or for the character. ⁓ So that's the sort of basic stuff. Once I have a draft, then it's not about word count anymore. Then it's about the characters, the scenes, the pacing, the voice, you know, the larger story. And I can revise really for hours. Then it doesn't really matter even what time of day it is. And then the revision phase could take me several years. So I'm not a fast writer. ⁓ I worked this, the actual writing of this book was probably four years, maybe five, honestly. So ⁓ I actually wrote a draft and threw it out, which sounds terrible. But there were a lot of things that I kept and they were sort of the basic betrayal, broken trust, family, parent, child, you know. spouses issues that I kept. So I didn't feel that I was just like dumping a whole entire story.
Speaker 2: I have to ask more about that though. At what point did you throw out your draft? Were you like one year in, two years in from this four year process?
Speaker 1: That first draft actually came pretty quickly, so that was good. ⁓
Speaker 2: And how does that feel, You've put all this day after day time into it, and now you're saying, no, this isn't it. I'm sitting down tomorrow and starting with something different. How do you get yourself ready for that and recover, in a sense?
Speaker 1: think there's just something incredibly stubborn about myself, but I just, I knew that I had stuff in there in that draft that I would use. So it wasn't that I felt that it was all lost, but it just didn't feel right. So I didn't want to spend any more time doing, going down that road. ⁓ And so I took what I could salvage and, and I guess began again.
Speaker 2: So that's so fascinating. And then I have to ask, do you feel buoyant or stubborn you mentioned, or just like you're going to get it done, you know you're going to get it done, or do you have moments where you, am I ever going to get this done?
Speaker 1: Well, of course I have moments of, I ever gonna get this done, for sure. ⁓ Again, I don't know, I do have this stubbornness. I do know it takes me a while. You know, my other novels took time and I just know that's, at this point, kind of my rhythm. ⁓ I always hope that the next one will be a little shorter and this one was a little bit shorter. I have plenty of days where I... you know, I'm frustrated or it doesn't feel like it's going right. ⁓
Speaker 2: And you've talked about having writing friends, discussing ⁓ issues with friends. Do you have a writing group? Do you have a trusted editor? Who is your support team?
Speaker 1: do have a handful of writers ⁓ that I've read my early works for a long time now. Not a lot of people. I don't like to show it to too many people because when I'm formulating and in that tender stage of drafting and figuring it out for myself, I don't want too many outside voices influencing me at that point. I just feel like I want to trust my own instincts, hear the voices and not be concerned about what anyone else is thinking. That feels pretty sacred. So I do keep it pretty close to my chest, except I do have these trusted readers and I will maybe sometimes send maybe a chapter or two, that kind of thing, just to make sure I'm not completely off the rails.
Speaker 2: taking it to the next level in the chronology of writing a novel. What happens for you? How do you transition from that final draft, ready, revised? This is the book I want to send to my publisher and knowing that there'll still be some editing involved. ⁓ And then transitioning almost immediately Now to how do I promote my book? How does that feel and how do you handle that transition?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a big transition for me. You're alone with your work or with your private set of people that have been working on your editor and suddenly now I have to start talking about it. Talking about it in little snippets and talking about it without giving things away. And it really took me some time making that switch is when you have to work on book jacket. descriptions ⁓ of it or someone has said, tell me what's your story about, you know, in a hundred words. I work with a publicist, so, you know, they put together a press release. And all of that again is recapping your novel, something you've just spent five years working on, it's whatever it is, 75, 80,000 words, and distilling it down to something that doesn't give everything away, but also hopefully engages the reader. So it's a challenge. But you just work on it. You just go to the computer, write a million versions, throw a million versions out, show it to a few people, see what they say.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned that you have a publicist. That's something that some people swear by and others don't have. How is that for you? ⁓ What is the value? What do you ⁓ get from that relationship that helps you as an experienced writer or a well-published novelist, a successful writer? ⁓ How does the publicist help you?
Speaker 1: didn't want to hire a big corporate publicist, so I hired an individual, Susanna Greenberg. She's been in the business for 20 years. ⁓ My book does have Jewish content, so I wanted to have someone who was sensitive to the Jewish ⁓ reading community. It's just someone I can work with when things are happening. ⁓ if someone wants something, you know, a reviewer wants a book or we're talking about where else can we send an advanced review copy. It's just ⁓ a good sounding board. And I have found that to be very helpful.
Speaker 2: book is just out at this moment that we're talking and how far in advance of release date is it good to have a publicist and then how long are you thinking of continuing that relationship after the release?
Speaker 1: It seems that publicists were getting more more booked and you had to really book them pretty far in advance. mean, don't just think of getting a publicist with three months to go, you know, to your pub date. You really should be thinking a year ahead and for some even longer, honestly. So I'd advise everyone to think about that a year ahead.
Speaker 2: What works best? Is it the book talks, the press releases, the social media? All of it is needed. What do you enjoy and what do you not enjoy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I do think it is a very individual thing. You know, I definitely don't think it's one shoe fits all. ⁓ Some people are don't like social media. And I think you can't force yourself to do something that you don't like. and it's gonna come through. I have a fairly active Facebook page that I've been keeping up for many, many years, and I enjoy it. So there's that. There's the publicist, the press releases. And because I've published several books now and written a lot of essays for different magazines, all that kind of thing, I am used to pitching, but you know, the landscape's changed. It's different. And I'm still figuring it out. I don't have an easy answer. I think you have to do in some ways everything, which is hard for an author. You know, we're writing our books and then we need to get out there. I'm going to...
Speaker 2: wrap up, although I'd love to talk more, with a question that I find ⁓ really helpful for our listeners and for writers at all stages, and that is, what top advice would you give to someone who asked you, Jessica, what is the most important thing I should know? about writing that will help me to finish my projects and feel good about them and also find readers.
Speaker 1: think two things came to mind when you asked that question. One is you just have to find self-belief because it can be a long road and you'll run up against a lot of no's. I mean, I don't know how many rejections I've had in my life. 300? ⁓ You have to have a deep in your core. And how do you find that? mean, that, partly you find that by just writing. Make a mess. Make that mess, don't just talk about your writing. You've just gotta sit down and put something on the page and make a mess and give yourself license to make that mess. ⁓ And have the belief that you will figure it out. And then I think the other thing that's been important to me is you have to, I have found, ⁓ surround yourself with people that you can trust that have your best interests. If you find that... you're showing your work to someone and you're feeling really bad about it or that somehow you're feeling put down or diminished in any way, listen to yourself. That's not the right person because you can show early draft to someone and they can be encouraging and they can know that it's not polished yet, it's not finished, you've got a ways to go, but they're there to encourage you and bring out your best. So I think the self-belief. just got to sit, sit your butt down on the chair and write and, to surround yourself with people that you can trust that have your best interests.
Speaker 2: Thank you. is such inspiring advice and it does apply ⁓ even if it's your 10th novel or your 12th novel or your first short story that applies. Speaking of next novels and next short stories, ⁓ do you have anything that you're willing to share about projects that you might be working on now?
Speaker 1: I do. I've written a draft of a, what I'm calling a visitation, which is really memoir, but I had a bone marrow transplant when I was in my early 20s and long time ago, but it was a pivotal experience and it shaped really my whole life. And I've been carrying around my diaries from that time forever. And people over the years have said, you really should write about it. And I have written about it in little pieces and essays. But I've written a full draft about that time. So that's my next project.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that, for the wonderful work that you do and how generously you're sharing that insight with our listeners.
Speaker 1: I so appreciate your time and for reading the book. I really appreciate that. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Thank you again, Jessica Brilliant Keener and Why Authors Write.
Speaker 1: Thank you. ⁓
Speaker 1: ⁓ thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. So in this case, the thing that was haunting me was broken trust and betrayal. And so I wanted to explore those things deeply ⁓ honestly, I hoped, ⁓ it's, ⁓ think, one of the most difficult things to recover from. And it does come in all kinds of forms. It can be in your friendships, know, someone you think is your best friend and then suddenly they do something or they've been doing something behind your back or in your family, relationship with parent and child. Obviously in this book too, have marital infidelity. That's common and universal, but what's it about? So I wanted to really dig in to those things. I wanted to get behind why people do things that hurt other people. ⁓ you know, how intentional, if it's not intentional, the whys and the hows. So that's kind of what got me going with this novel. And then, you know, the characters are what lead the way for me.
Speaker 2: I loved your book. I was hooked on the very first page. It's wonderful opening, ⁓ sad and wonderful at the same time. And I'm sure I'm not the only one of your readers who actually had never heard about the counting of Omer as a spiritual practice. So one of my first questions is, how did you decide And why did you decide that that would be so central in the story of, as you said, relationships and trust, broken trust? ⁓ What role has that played in your own life, if any? And why did you decide that was going to be the centerpiece of this particular book?
Speaker 1: So after I had written a draft and I had my characters and pretty much sort of the issues and the dilemmas and some of the scenes, I just felt I wanted another layer to add to the book. So the Count in the Omer actually came later. In fact, I had never heard of it. ⁓ And it was one of those happy accidents, I think, that happened hopefully for all writers. But when that happens to me, when I feel that there's something that there's something missing and I want another layer, add some more depth, and I don't know what it is. I will kind of just put that question out to myself or the universe per se and trust that I'll figure it out. I went to meet a friend of mine for a walk, another writer, and we, as usual, were talking about our novels and I was then relating the story about Nate. and how touched I was and she said, know, that sort of makes me think of the Counting the Omer. And I don't know if it was because it was spring when I was talking to her and it already started because it happens every spring ⁓ for 49 days. ⁓ And I was like, what is that? And I'm Jewish, grew up Jewish, went to Sunday school and she started explaining, ⁓ it's this tradition, ⁓ seven weeks, it has these Kabbalistic themes to it, which of course I had heard of the Kabbalah and... I said, ⁓ my God, you know, I've been sort of looking for this kind of spiritual thing aspect to my novel. You know, I got to find out more about this. It was just this way of counting each day. A very simple thing every night at sunset. You say it's day one, week one, and then the second day it's day two of week one, and you do that all for 49 days, and it just so happens that for some they give each day a Kabbalistic attribute like charity or loving kindness, and you start, and then you can start to think about how those things play out in your own life. Like, was I charitable, or what does charity even mean? So I thought, maybe all my characters, this could be a nice sort of connecting. fabric for all my characters.
Speaker 2: It's interesting and wonderful to hear that it wasn't there in your original framing of the book or storyline and that you sought it out from Friends and the universe in some way and found exactly the spiritual deepness that you wanted to bring the book together and it serves that role. I love how you use it in a lightweight but very important way. And if you don't mind, I'd like to shift gears a little bit to how you do it. How did you get from that spark of inspiration to that final draft and then through publication? And I would love it if you would talk about that day-to-day routine in as much detail as you could stand so that you open that part of the book for us.
Speaker 1: I start with, you know, the first draft is always, I would say, the hardest draft for me. Just getting something on the page. So I have found that if I give myself ⁓ sort of a writing parameters, and what I do is 500 words a day. And it doesn't sound like a lot, ⁓ but I have to do it every day, at least five days. ⁓ So five out of the seven days, have to do 500 words. ⁓ So that adds up to already a week, 2,500. And you start to realize after nine months, I'll have a draft. So that's how I keep myself going ⁓ so that it doesn't feel like an endless sea that I've just stepped into with no end. I'm not the plotter person. I have tried writing an outline ahead of time. It does not work for me. It sort of takes the joy of writing away, ⁓ the joy of discovering. And that's just me. ⁓ Whatever works for anybody is great. But for me, I have to discover it as I'm writing. I guess you could call me a more of an experiential learner. So ⁓ it's in the morning. I'm best with a new draft in the morning. ⁓ You know, get up. get the coffee or the tea now, and ⁓ sit down and just get words on the page. Once I get those words on the page, those words bring out other words. Suddenly, I'm in there, I'm starting to think about it for the rest of the day, sleeping. It starts to become, I embody it, you could say. And I do think the continuity is important. That's why, especially with a novel, sticking with it. I just try to get myself excited. ⁓ my goodness, now I've got 5,000 words and then by the end of the month I've got 10,000 words. And then it starts to, you know, other thoughts come out. I start to have ideas about other characters or scenes and I use file cards, old-fashioned file cards. I love file cards. So I will jot down, you know, what my characters look like, what do I want to call them? ⁓ And I spend a fair amount of time with names, finding names that... feel resonate, you know, for me or for the character. ⁓ So that's the sort of basic stuff. Once I have a draft, then it's not about word count anymore. Then it's about the characters, the scenes, the pacing, the voice, you know, the larger story. And I can revise really for hours. Then it doesn't really matter even what time of day it is. And then the revision phase could take me several years. So I'm not a fast writer. ⁓ I worked this, the actual writing of this book was probably four years, maybe five, honestly. So ⁓ I actually wrote a draft and threw it out, which sounds terrible. But there were a lot of things that I kept and they were sort of the basic betrayal, broken trust, family, parent, child, you know. spouses issues that I kept. So I didn't feel that I was just like dumping a whole entire story.
Speaker 2: I have to ask more about that though. At what point did you throw out your draft? Were you like one year in, two years in from this four year process?
Speaker 1: That first draft actually came pretty quickly, so that was good. ⁓
Speaker 2: And how does that feel, You've put all this day after day time into it, and now you're saying, no, this isn't it. I'm sitting down tomorrow and starting with something different. How do you get yourself ready for that and recover, in a sense?
Speaker 1: think there's just something incredibly stubborn about myself, but I just, I knew that I had stuff in there in that draft that I would use. So it wasn't that I felt that it was all lost, but it just didn't feel right. So I didn't want to spend any more time doing, going down that road. ⁓ And so I took what I could salvage and, and I guess began again.
Speaker 2: So that's so fascinating. And then I have to ask, do you feel buoyant or stubborn you mentioned, or just like you're going to get it done, you know you're going to get it done, or do you have moments where you, am I ever going to get this done?
Speaker 1: Well, of course I have moments of, I ever gonna get this done, for sure. ⁓ Again, I don't know, I do have this stubbornness. I do know it takes me a while. You know, my other novels took time and I just know that's, at this point, kind of my rhythm. ⁓ I always hope that the next one will be a little shorter and this one was a little bit shorter. I have plenty of days where I... you know, I'm frustrated or it doesn't feel like it's going right. ⁓
Speaker 2: And you've talked about having writing friends, discussing ⁓ issues with friends. Do you have a writing group? Do you have a trusted editor? Who is your support team?
Speaker 1: do have a handful of writers ⁓ that I've read my early works for a long time now. Not a lot of people. I don't like to show it to too many people because when I'm formulating and in that tender stage of drafting and figuring it out for myself, I don't want too many outside voices influencing me at that point. I just feel like I want to trust my own instincts, hear the voices and not be concerned about what anyone else is thinking. That feels pretty sacred. So I do keep it pretty close to my chest, except I do have these trusted readers and I will maybe sometimes send maybe a chapter or two, that kind of thing, just to make sure I'm not completely off the rails.
Speaker 2: taking it to the next level in the chronology of writing a novel. What happens for you? How do you transition from that final draft, ready, revised? This is the book I want to send to my publisher and knowing that there'll still be some editing involved. ⁓ And then transitioning almost immediately Now to how do I promote my book? How does that feel and how do you handle that transition?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a big transition for me. You're alone with your work or with your private set of people that have been working on your editor and suddenly now I have to start talking about it. Talking about it in little snippets and talking about it without giving things away. And it really took me some time making that switch is when you have to work on book jacket. descriptions ⁓ of it or someone has said, tell me what's your story about, you know, in a hundred words. I work with a publicist, so, you know, they put together a press release. And all of that again is recapping your novel, something you've just spent five years working on, it's whatever it is, 75, 80,000 words, and distilling it down to something that doesn't give everything away, but also hopefully engages the reader. So it's a challenge. But you just work on it. You just go to the computer, write a million versions, throw a million versions out, show it to a few people, see what they say.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned that you have a publicist. That's something that some people swear by and others don't have. How is that for you? ⁓ What is the value? What do you ⁓ get from that relationship that helps you as an experienced writer or a well-published novelist, a successful writer? ⁓ How does the publicist help you?
Speaker 1: didn't want to hire a big corporate publicist, so I hired an individual, Susanna Greenberg. She's been in the business for 20 years. ⁓ My book does have Jewish content, so I wanted to have someone who was sensitive to the Jewish ⁓ reading community. It's just someone I can work with when things are happening. ⁓ if someone wants something, you know, a reviewer wants a book or we're talking about where else can we send an advanced review copy. It's just ⁓ a good sounding board. And I have found that to be very helpful.
Speaker 2: book is just out at this moment that we're talking and how far in advance of release date is it good to have a publicist and then how long are you thinking of continuing that relationship after the release?
Speaker 1: It seems that publicists were getting more more booked and you had to really book them pretty far in advance. mean, don't just think of getting a publicist with three months to go, you know, to your pub date. You really should be thinking a year ahead and for some even longer, honestly. So I'd advise everyone to think about that a year ahead.
Speaker 2: What works best? Is it the book talks, the press releases, the social media? All of it is needed. What do you enjoy and what do you not enjoy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I do think it is a very individual thing. You know, I definitely don't think it's one shoe fits all. ⁓ Some people are don't like social media. And I think you can't force yourself to do something that you don't like. and it's gonna come through. I have a fairly active Facebook page that I've been keeping up for many, many years, and I enjoy it. So there's that. There's the publicist, the press releases. And because I've published several books now and written a lot of essays for different magazines, all that kind of thing, I am used to pitching, but you know, the landscape's changed. It's different. And I'm still figuring it out. I don't have an easy answer. I think you have to do in some ways everything, which is hard for an author. You know, we're writing our books and then we need to get out there. I'm going to...
Speaker 2: wrap up, although I'd love to talk more, with a question that I find ⁓ really helpful for our listeners and for writers at all stages, and that is, what top advice would you give to someone who asked you, Jessica, what is the most important thing I should know? about writing that will help me to finish my projects and feel good about them and also find readers.
Speaker 1: think two things came to mind when you asked that question. One is you just have to find self-belief because it can be a long road and you'll run up against a lot of no's. I mean, I don't know how many rejections I've had in my life. 300? ⁓ You have to have a deep in your core. And how do you find that? mean, that, partly you find that by just writing. Make a mess. Make that mess, don't just talk about your writing. You've just gotta sit down and put something on the page and make a mess and give yourself license to make that mess. ⁓ And have the belief that you will figure it out. And then I think the other thing that's been important to me is you have to, I have found, ⁓ surround yourself with people that you can trust that have your best interests. If you find that... you're showing your work to someone and you're feeling really bad about it or that somehow you're feeling put down or diminished in any way, listen to yourself. That's not the right person because you can show early draft to someone and they can be encouraging and they can know that it's not polished yet, it's not finished, you've got a ways to go, but they're there to encourage you and bring out your best. So I think the self-belief. just got to sit, sit your butt down on the chair and write and, to surround yourself with people that you can trust that have your best interests.
Speaker 2: Thank you. is such inspiring advice and it does apply ⁓ even if it's your 10th novel or your 12th novel or your first short story that applies. Speaking of next novels and next short stories, ⁓ do you have anything that you're willing to share about projects that you might be working on now?
Speaker 1: I do. I've written a draft of a, what I'm calling a visitation, which is really memoir, but I had a bone marrow transplant when I was in my early 20s and long time ago, but it was a pivotal experience and it shaped really my whole life. And I've been carrying around my diaries from that time forever. And people over the years have said, you really should write about it. And I have written about it in little pieces and essays. But I've written a full draft about that time. So that's my next project.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that, for the wonderful work that you do and how generously you're sharing that insight with our listeners.
Speaker 1: I so appreciate your time and for reading the book. I really appreciate that. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Thank you again, Jessica Brilliant Keener and Why Authors Write.
Speaker 1: Thank you. ⁓
