Guests
Professor Mike Kenny, Head of Department at the Bennett School of Public Policy, University of Cambridge
Jacinta Koolmatrie, Aboriginal heritage practitioner (Adnyamathanha and Ngarrindjeri)
Episode overview
Across many societies, trust between communities and institutions has fractured. People feel decisions are remote, economies no longer work for them, and institutions do not recognise their on-the-ground realities. In this episode, Lindsay Hooper and Marc Kahn explore how trust and legitimacy can be rebuilt through place-based, community-led approaches, and why listening only matters when institutions are prepared to change how power is exercised.
Professor Mike Kenny examines how economic transition, geographical polarisation and centralised governance have weakened the relationship between citizens and the state, creating deep place-based grievances. Jacinta Koolmatrie provides a grounded perspective from Aboriginal communities, where trust in institutions often never existed in the first place, and explains why consultation fails when institutions are unwilling to relinquish control, slow down, and work with communities on their own terms.
The conversation explores what actually works: community wealth building, experimental and deliberative policy approaches, Indigenous-led responses during COVID, and the role of time, iteration and tacit knowledge. It also examines the risks of “one-size-fits-all” engagement, and the power of narrative and nostalgia in rebuilding legitimacy without falling into populist politics.
Key Takeaways
Place matters in practice as well as sentiment: policy outcomes vary with local history, networks, capacity and constraints, so design and implementation cannot be separated.
Community engagement improves decisions by revealing tacit, experience-based knowledge that is not captured in formal data or models.
Experimental, test-and-learn approaches that allow priorities to be set locally and adjusted over time produce more workable and legitimate outcomes than fixed, top-down programmes.
Selected quotes
“The listening [by those inpower] is more of like a show to the world that they’re doing something, but they’re not actually doing something….They realise that they’re going to lose power if they do anything past the listening part.” Jacinta Koolmatrie
“Unless you really have a deeper understanding of how people feel and think about particular issues, the solutions you may try and impose just may well not fly, they may well not work or indeed be counterproductive.” Professor Mike Kenny
Credits
Presented by:
Lindsay Hooper, Chief Executive, CISL
Marc Kahn, Chief Strategy & Sustainability Officer, Investec
Produced by: Carl Homer (Cambridge TV) & Alexa Sellwood
Executive Producer: Gillian Secrett
In partnership with: Investec
Listen and Subscribe:
Available on all major podcast platforms or visit the Leadership Hub on the CISL website or Investec Focus for more episodes and insights.
Disclaimer:
The views in this podcast are those of the contributors, and don’t necessarily represent those of CISL, the University of Cambridge, or Investec, and should not be taken as advice or a recommendation.
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