WEBVTT
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Michael Rejent is an air traffic controller.
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So the top of the tower where the controllers work is called the cab and it's stocked with high-tech equipment.
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And one of the most effective tools he uses to do his job, it's called a window.
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You're gonna catch an error much more quickly with your eyes out the window than you will looking at the ground radar.
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That's why it's really important because you would be like, oh, there's no way that guy's gonna stop, you know, if you're looking at it out the window.
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Like, I told him to hold short of Juliet.
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I know he's not gonna do it.
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So you would you'd call him up on the ground, hey, Delta four thirty five, just hold short of Juliet.
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So it turns out there's a good reason controllers work from the tallest perch on the airfield surrounded by glass.
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You know, it's a good way to make sure that what you think is happening is happening.
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I'm Dan Heath, and this is What It's Like to Be.
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In every episode, we walk in the shoes of someone from a different profession, an aircraft carrier commander, a pharmacy technician, a baker.
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We wanna know what they do all day at work.
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Today, we'll ask Michael Rejent what it's like to be an air traffic controller.
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We'll talk about what happened when a jet he hadn't cleared for takeoff took off, the puzzles he solves to keep jets from bunching up, and the pilot's words that put the whole tower on alert, stay with us.
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One quick note before we keep going here.
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Michael still works in the world of air traffic control, so he asked us to share this message.
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The views expressed here are my own and do not constitute an endorsement official policy or position of the Federal Aviation Administration or the Department of Transportation.
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Okay.
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Let's zoom out.
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Why do we need air traffic control at all?
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Well, pretty much for the same reason we need traffic lights.
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With enough planes in the sky, it gets unsafe and you need a way to figure out who goes where and whose turn it is.
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There are multiple levels of air traffic control, we'll get to that later.
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But let's start at the airport.
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Michael worked in a tower at Detroit Metro Airport for years.
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Detroit is a big complicated airfield.
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It's got six runways, hundreds of flight a day.
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To handle all that, the controllers in the cab are split into three roles.
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So there's a clearance delivery section and then three ground controls and three local controls.
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Okay.
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A little more about each of those roles.
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Clearance delivery gives pilots their flight plans before the planes ever leave the gate.
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Local control is in charge of clearing planes for takeoff and for landing.
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And in between is ground control.
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The controllers who direct planes taxiing between the gate and the runway.
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Ground control...
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Man, you are you're busy.
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You couldn't sit down.
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There was
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Yeah.
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If you sat down, you were you were missing something.
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And I know that one of the things that you're always thinking about is what's the right kind of rhythm or flow of of aircraft?
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Because on one hand, if you get too safety conscious and and create massive buffers between planes, then you get clogs and people can't get to their relatives' weddings and go see their sick grandma, you know, so that's a problem.
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But if you cram in too many planes, you're obviously creating a safety risk.
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Like, how do you kind of balance those those tensions?
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Well, that's that's exactly what it is.
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It's a very delicate balance between safety first and then efficiency.
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And it's always a constant calculation that you're running.
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If you have optimal conditions where, you know, it's clear in a million, you know, meaning you can see everywhere, the sky is blue, very calm wind, you know, nothing really there to obstruct the optimal flow of air traffic.
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All of your equipment is working properly, you know, Detroit's arrival rate is like a 132 flights an hour.
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Okay.
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So that's like a measure that you're thinking about Yeah.
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Is flights per hour, okay.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Because it's all time based, you know.
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How much time does it take from the flight that's on five mile final to touch down on the ground?
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How much time does it take for it after it touches down on the ground to turn off the runway on the high speed taxiways, you know?
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So there's all of these things that you're constantly balancing in your mind, and and when it's perfect weather, hey man, it's like clockwork.
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Things are are smooth, it's a well oiled machine, everybody's working together, it's great.
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But when that anomaly comes into play, like you start getting some clouds on final or, you know, you get fog, it all starts to slow down.
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That's where the efficiency starts to decrease because of the actual conditions that make it unsafe.
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That's really helpful.
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Actually, I hadn't thought about it through that lens.
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It's almost like a volume knob.
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Or in this case, instead of volume, it's flow, where if conditions are perfect, you can kinda crank it up because it merits efficiency.
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Yeah.
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But as things degrade for various reasons, you've gotta kinda dial it back and increase the safety factor.
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Right.
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Michael told me about a time when they had to turn down the quote unquote flow knob because of weather.
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A thunderstorm had just rolled off the airfield in Detroit.
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Departures had been frozen, and Michael was in the tower working local control.
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So remember, it's the local controllers that are clearing planes for takeoff and landing.
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We had a heavy Airbus.
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It was a a three fifty nine.
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They were taxied out.
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They contacted me at local control, and I had just gotten word from the TRACON that, hey, your departures are released.
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TRACON, by the way, is the radar facility that handles planes once they're in the air around the airport.
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So they're the next link in the chain after the tower.
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Alright.
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So Michael clears the Airbus to take off on Runway 22 left with an immediate hard left turn to dodge the storm.
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Meanwhile, another plane, a CRJ, with about 60 people on board, was also ready for departure, and Michael gave them instructions.
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And I said SkyWest one twenty five hotel, [uintelligible] Tower, Runway 21 Right, line up and wait, caution wake turbulence, traffic, heavy Airbus departing two two left eastbound.
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Okay.
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So Michael is basically saying to the CRJ, hold up.
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You're not cleared for takeoff yet.
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Because he knew the Airbus was going to cut across the flight path of the CRJ.
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So the Airbus takes off.
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And he is in a an almost an immediate left hand turn to avoid flying through the worst part of the thunderstorm that just moved off of the airfield to the south.
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So I look over there, I see that happening, and then I look over at 21 right, and I see the CRJ about 500 feet in the air halfway down the runway.
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Michael realizes the CRJ did not line up and wait.
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It took off with the Airbus right in its path.
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And I am like, what the heck?
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You know, and everybody in the tower looks right at that CRJ.
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And they're like, holy smokes, you know, like, there were some curse words in there.
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I suspect the language is a little worse.
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Yes.
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And I was like, SkyWest one twenty five hotel caution wake turbulence heavy airbus crossing right to left, turn right immediately.
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Basically, like, what the hell are you doing, you know?
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But my heart sank because I'm thinking, did I do something wrong?
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And then I go back to the CRJ and I'm like, SkyWest one twenty five hotel, I don't ever recall giving you a clearance for takeoff.
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Yeah.
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Oh, man.
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I'll never forget it.
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You know, and then I went back to the Airbus after I realized it was no factor because I'm trying to, like, peel the CRJ away from them, but I, you know, switched the the heavy Airbus that was, you know, going to Korea to departure, so they were radars control, and I I held on to the the CRJ.
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He remained on my frequency, and we have to give him like a a brasher warning, which is like, hey, possible pilot deviation, you know, I have a phone number advisory to copy, blah blah blah.
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So they write that down.
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What what does all that mean?
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Is that just like you might be in big trouble, bub, basically, or
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Yeah.
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But here's the thing, like, we as controllers in instances like that, we are not the police.
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We don't place blame or fault because that is not the time for it.
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You don't do any of those things on the frequency because you don't want to affect the psychological state of the pilots, like, they're thinking, oh my god, I made a mistake and that's not good and I'm gonna get into trouble and I'm gonna, you know, have my pilot's license suspended.
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You don't wanna do any of those things because
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Yeah.
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They have people on their plane.
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That is not the place for it.
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So that's where we we give out that phone number.
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Once they get to their destination, they call it, and then the information is handled at that point.
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And then there's an investigation, and then then, you know, we figure out what happens.
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And how close did the two planes get in this situation?
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I don't know.
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I'm telling you, it looked like it was five hundred feet.
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Oh my gosh.
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I don't know what it was.
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It could have been much further than that, but it was too close.
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And I went back, my supervisor was like, you screwed up, you screwed up.
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And I'm like, no, I didn't, I know what I said, you know.
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But there's still like that little bit of doubt in the back of your mind, right?
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But I, man, after I got off position, ran downstairs and I listened to to the tapes.
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I checked the tapes, that's something that we say, you know, when we're we're trying to, like, defend ourselves.
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Like, check the tapes, you know, because everything's recorded.
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I went downstairs, I was right.
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He took off without a clearance.
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What was the aftermath of that like for you?
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Like, how do you I mean, did you go back to work after that?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I went back like thirty minutes later.
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Woah.
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I mean, how do you kinda settle your emotions after something like that happens?
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You know, I guess you kinda like, you kinda stick it away, you know?
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Mhmm.
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And I'm sorry I'm getting a little emotional, but when you think about air traffic, and it's not like, I'm not getting emotional for this particular instance, but just
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Yeah.
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Overall, right?
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It's like, in the terminal environment, like, things happen immediately.
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Right?
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If there's a mistake made, the consequences are immediate.
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You see them immediately.
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I mean, the the thing that strikes me so much about this job is it is so routine and there's an order and there's a protocol and there are clear communications and, I mean, it must almost lull you into, you know, habit, but you also have to have this kind of maniacal focus at the same time because if you slip, like the pilot, thinking he had clearance when he didn't have it, people can die instantly.
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Yeah.
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And lots of people How do you maintain that intense focus when from day to day, nothing is happening, like everything is going in an orderly way.
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Yeah.
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You have to know that at any moment, something can happen.
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And if you have a plan, you can adapt and react.
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Mhmm.
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If you don't have a plan, it is so difficult to crawl out of that.
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And as far as dealing with the stress, I mean, some people put it away and it's demanding you to be on all the time.
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You have to be performing at your highest level every single time you're on position keying the mic.
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And I don't think people really realize how how tough that can be.
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After a short break, the one phrase that makes every controller in the room pause and look up.
00:13:56.404 --> 00:13:59.845
I'm Dallas Taylor, host of the Twenty Thousand Hertz podcast.
00:14:00.004 --> 00:14:06.629
On our show, sound designers, musicians, and experts reveal the secrets behind the most iconic sounds in the world.
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From the "I'm lovin' it" jingle to the sound effects of Star Wars, from the Netflix "tudum", to the music and sounds of Zelda.
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To unlock your sonic world, follow Twenty Thousand Hertz right here in your podcast player.
00:14:27.075 --> 00:14:29.554
Well, let's flip to the other side of the spectrum.
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I mean, it sounds like just a crazy stressful job, intense focus, big stakes, but there's something about it that appeals to you clearly.
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Like what what is it?
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It's the adrenaline that you get, the problems that are new that you have the ability to solve.
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Mhmm.
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And I think humans really enjoy that for the most part.
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I mean, some people are gonna say, oh, I hate solving problems, I just I want it to be easy.
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It's like, well, okay, well, maybe air traffic's not for you, you know?
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But it really is, you're always solving problems, you're always using your brain, thinking about different scenarios and trying to maximize the safety while balancing that efficiency.
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Give me like an example if one comes to mind, just to give us a sense of what you're talking about, those moment to moment problem solving.
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So I'll use, you know, ground control at Detroit for as an example, you know.
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Yeah.
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You have different spacing between your aircraft departures.
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Right?
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Mhmm.
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If you have two aircraft that are going out the same departure gate, they need five miles in between one another so that it's manageable for the radar controller to control them.
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They're not too close.
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Right?
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Okay.
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So, you know, this happened quite often at Detroit where you would get six or seven planes that you're sequencing to the the West Departure Runway, and they have three different departure fixes that they're going to be passing through after they they get in the air.
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Well, you you don't wanna put all of those aircraft back to back that are going out the same gates.
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Right?
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You wanna kinda we call it sequence.
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You wanna sequence where they are on the ground so that your local controller, all they have to do is just say clear for takeoff, and they don't have to worry about that spacing because the first guy is going out due West, the second departure is going to the Southwest, and then the third departure is going to the South.
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And then you just start that all over again.
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By the time that you get
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Oh I see.
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Yeah, by the time that you get to that fourth aircraft that is going due west, you have maybe 12 miles between those two aircraft, which is plenty of space for that radar controller to use to manage the departures without being too close.
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Oh, that helps me understand like the puzzle aspect of it.
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Yeah.
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It's like you're you're just trying to build in these almost natural buffers between different planes by clever sequencing.
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Right.
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And you would do that on the ground by, you know, those departures aren't all coming from taxing out of the same spot, they're in different areas.
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So you you might have to, you know, hold one short of a certain taxiway so that the guy that's going due south can pass him, and then you tuck the due westbound guy behind him, right?
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So
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Right.
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So it's kind of
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Yeah.
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You're kind of creating like a stoplight on the ground, on the movement area at the terminal.
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Michael doesn't work in a tower at an airport anymore.
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He's been promoted to a place most people have never heard of, the FAA's air traffic control system command center, just outside of Washington DC.
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So bear with me here.
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We talked about the airports, then TRACON, which is the airspace around the airport.
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Then there are en route centers, which handle big stretches of sky and hand off planes like a relay race.
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There are 20 of them in the Continental US. Cleveland Center, New York Center, and so forth.
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Where Michael works now, the command center sits above all of this.
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The top of the food chain, the fourth level of air traffic control.
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Airports, TRACON, en route centers, and the command center.
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The command center is critical because it's trying to keep a problem in one part of the system from cascading throughout the whole thing.
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Kinda like you don't want a traffic jam in one spot to paralyze the whole city's flow of cars.
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The command center can help reroute planes around problem areas.
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So we'll say, okay, hey, New York Center, we see you have some weather there.
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Can we move some of these flights up through Boston that are coming from Cleveland and you decrease your miles-in-trail request from Cleveland so that we're not holding planes on the ground at O'Hare?
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miles-in-trail, that's padding.
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The distance between planes.
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Sort of like the knob idea we talked about earlier, when conditions deteriorate, you want more padding.
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That's more miles-in-trail.
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And they'll say, yeah, sure.
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Let's talk to Boston.
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So we talked to Boston Center, Boston Center says, yeah, sure.
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We'll take some Cleveland's flights, know, Cleveland, you give us 20 in trail, 20 miles in between each of those flights.
00:19:47.509 --> 00:19:58.394
So Cleveland kinda works with Boston then, and they they essentially like create a new highway in the sky on a route that's kind of already there.
00:19:58.394 --> 00:20:06.954
So it's basically, like, creating a little bit of a detour to decrease that bottleneck in the miles-in-trail that's passed back.
00:20:06.954 --> 00:20:07.515
Right.
00:20:07.674 --> 00:20:08.315
Right.
00:20:08.315 --> 00:20:08.555
Right.
00:20:09.109 --> 00:20:18.548
So it's sort of like on Google Maps, like, there's a clog on some interstate highway, like, Google Maps is crafty enough to tell you, okay, take this feeder road, go around.
00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:24.309
It's a Circuitous route, but it's still, number one, helping you, but also helping the system flow.
00:20:25.085 --> 00:20:25.484
Right.
00:20:25.484 --> 00:20:32.365
And I I guess in this that particular scenario there that you presented, the command center picks the route for you.
00:20:32.605 --> 00:20:32.924
Yeah.
00:20:32.924 --> 00:20:40.579
So the command center tells the driver, okay, you're looking at Google Maps, you've got twenty four minutes, twenty six minutes, and thirty minutes.
00:20:40.579 --> 00:20:40.900
Alright.
00:20:40.900 --> 00:20:45.138
You know, Joe, you're coming from Cleveland, you're gonna take the twenty four minute route.
00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:52.420
Tim, you're gonna take the twenty seven minute route, and Fred, you're gonna take the thirty minute route, and it's all gonna blend in.
00:20:53.144 --> 00:20:57.304
The other big thing the command center does is watch the weather.
00:20:57.704 --> 00:21:04.585
They have the National Weather Service embedded right there in the building, forecasters who do nothing but track aviation weather.
00:21:05.049 --> 00:21:15.288
So when a line of thunderstorms is bearing down on a major airport like O'Hare, Michael knows almost to the minute when it's gonna hit and how long it will sit there.
00:21:15.609 --> 00:21:22.993
The question is what to do about all the planes already heading that way and all the ones about to take off.
00:21:23.474 --> 00:21:45.329
So the command center will say, alright, well, we already have these flights in the air and we don't want anything to to get airborne that will be affected by weather by the time they get there, so we put out what's called a first tier ground stop.
00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:46.049
Mhmm.
00:21:46.049 --> 00:22:03.069
So we will tell all of the the adjacent centers that are within an hour flying time of Chicago O'Hare, hey, keep all of your O'Hare flights on the ground due to thunderstorms.
00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:05.148
So you're the ground stop people?
00:22:05.390 --> 00:22:06.029
Yes.
00:22:06.029 --> 00:22:07.308
The ground stop yeah.
00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:14.669
I'm I'm the ground stop and the ground delay programs and the airspace flow programs.
00:22:15.384 --> 00:22:26.105
Well, before you leave the Chicago one, I'm just curious, like, if you have a flight coming from Korea to land at O'Hare and, you know, obviously, when they left, the the thunderstorm may not have been foreseeable.
00:22:26.505 --> 00:22:29.130
Do they still land or or what happens?
00:22:29.130 --> 00:22:29.529
No.
00:22:29.529 --> 00:22:36.569
If the weather is directly impacting them and they're not comfortable landing through the weather, then they will hold.
00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:51.673
That's why we put that ground stop out at the command center to Minimize the amount of aircraft that are going to hold, and really, are going to have the potential to divert to one of their alternate airports.
00:22:52.075 --> 00:23:00.319
And the pilot from Korea, like, if they wanted to land in the thunderstorm, is it up to them or are you saying, no, don't even try?
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:00.880
No.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.119
It is it is the pilot's decision.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:03.680
Oh, wow.
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:06.480
It is it is up to the pilot to land.
00:23:06.558 --> 00:23:07.039
Okay.
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.279
We're air traffic controllers, we're not pilots.
00:23:09.585 --> 00:23:10.065
Yeah.
00:23:10.065 --> 00:23:12.784
We don't make decisions for them in that regard.
00:23:12.784 --> 00:23:20.544
You know, they are in charge of their aircraft and responsible for their passengers and that decision is ultimately up to them.
00:23:21.183 --> 00:23:25.898
What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about air traffic controllers?
00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:32.700
I I think one of the biggest misconceptions is, you know, that we control everything and and that's not always the case, you know.
00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:39.065
We're not trying to delay your flight, we're not trying to cause you to miss your connection.
00:23:39.305 --> 00:24:02.739
I do think people need to realize that it is a very very complex and large system and ten to fifteen minutes of delay in the morning for your first flight of the day turns into potentially an hour and a half for that flight and that crew at their end of the day.
00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:03.298
Mhmm.
00:24:03.298 --> 00:24:05.605
So that's where it's like it cascades.
00:24:05.605 --> 00:24:09.204
I mean, you can't you can't really make all of that time up.
00:24:09.923 --> 00:24:14.325
So Michael, we always end our episodes with a quick lightning round of questions.
00:24:14.404 --> 00:24:15.284
Here we go.
00:24:15.845 --> 00:24:21.920
What is a word or phrase that only someone from your profession would be likely to know, and what does it mean?
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:24.160
Gosh, I bet you've got about a thousand choices here.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:25.279
Yeah, I do.
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:37.055
Well, I we could say no joy, that means I don't have the traffic in sight, or sometimes pilots will say, tally ho, I have the traffic in sight.
00:24:37.055 --> 00:24:39.134
No joy and tally ho.
00:24:39.214 --> 00:24:39.855
Yeah.
00:24:40.174 --> 00:25:00.079
The pilot would use no joy in the scenario where the controller has pointed out traffic to them that they're either to follow or avoid, and the pilot will say, no joy, we don't see that aircraft to follow, no joy.
00:25:00.605 --> 00:25:08.525
No joy on the traffic. And then when they do see them, they might say, tally ho, we got him in sight, we'll follow him or we'll avoid.
00:25:09.005 --> 00:25:13.404
What phrase or sentence strikes fear in the heart of an air traffic controller?
00:25:14.930 --> 00:25:16.929
I'd like to declare an emergency.
00:25:17.009 --> 00:25:17.648
Oh.
00:25:17.650 --> 00:25:21.009
And who would would would the pilot be saying that, or your colleague, or what?
00:25:21.009 --> 00:25:21.490
Yeah.
00:25:21.490 --> 00:25:22.849
The pilot would be saying that.
00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:23.490
Oh, okay.
00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:23.970
Okay.
00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:37.085
I don't know that it strikes fear, but that's where you're putting your hand up in the air and snapping your fingers trying to get the sup's attention or get somebody's attention, you know, hey, and you're you're doing that as the pilot saying it, right?
00:25:37.085 --> 00:25:37.403
Yeah.
00:25:37.403 --> 00:25:44.558
Hey, this is Delta one thirty two heavy, I'd like to declare an emergency, we've got engine one out, you know, That's getting your attention.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:45.599
You know what?
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:55.679
When we talked to the pilot, we talked to a commercial pilot who's been working for thirty five plus years, and he had one of those situations where one of his engines caught on fire.
00:25:55.679 --> 00:25:58.398
And so I imagine that would be a call you would get.
00:25:58.398 --> 00:25:58.558
Right?
00:25:58.904 --> 00:25:59.464
Yeah.
00:25:59.464 --> 00:26:00.183
Absolutely.
00:26:00.265 --> 00:26:01.944
And so what happens from there?
00:26:02.424 --> 00:26:17.160
So at that point, you know, the controller is getting information from the pilot, you know, what's the nature of the emergency, what are your desires, souls on board, fuel remaining in pounds, you know, we're we're getting some very brief information when they have time.
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:31.134
We're trying not to talk to them as little as we can because we know that they're running checklists, going through everything that they need to do to make sure that they're going to operate their aircraft the way that they're supposed to.
00:26:31.134 --> 00:26:31.535
So we're
00:26:31.535 --> 00:26:31.694
Yeah.
00:26:31.694 --> 00:26:54.673
We're trying to leave them alone, but while all of those things are going on with a pilot in air traffic side in the background, we are, like I said, getting that supervisor's attention, getting another controller's attention and saying, hey, this guy's got an emergency, he's gonna be going to Dulles and we need to clear the airspace because he needs a straight in right now, you know.
00:26:54.673 --> 00:26:57.554
He lost an engine or something to that effect.
00:26:58.273 --> 00:27:02.273
What is an aspect of your work that you consistently savor?
00:27:02.994 --> 00:27:10.618
I really savor and cherish being able to help people get to where they need to go.
00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:21.980
I really enjoy that and every decision I make, I have that in the front of my mind is how do I get these people where they need to go, you know.
00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:26.604
Life happens and sometimes you need to you need to get places.
00:27:26.605 --> 00:27:31.644
A wedding, a funeral, go back home from your work trip.
00:27:31.964 --> 00:27:40.829
I really am honored to be able to help the country and the flying public get to where they need to go.
00:27:41.390 --> 00:27:52.903
And this is one of we we've talked to other people who have jobs that have this characteristic, but this is one of those jobs where you only really notice it when there's a problem or a catastrophe.
00:27:53.144 --> 00:27:53.784
Yeah.
00:27:54.183 --> 00:28:06.469
We have a phrase in air traffic, and it's kinda sad in a way, but we always say that you are only as good as your last transmission.
00:28:07.028 --> 00:28:15.190
So you could be the best damn controller in the world, but if you make a mistake, that's what everybody's gonna hear.
00:28:24.394 --> 00:28:27.194
Michael Rejent is an air traffic controller.
00:28:27.700 --> 00:28:32.259
He currently works at the FAA's command center near Washington DC.
00:28:33.460 --> 00:28:37.298
You're only as good as your last transmission.
00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:43.220
That vigilant focus is the heart of what air traffic controllers do.
00:28:44.035 --> 00:28:52.115
It reminded me of the ocean lifeguard we talked to in the sense of constantly having to fight complacency and stay alert.
00:28:52.994 --> 00:28:55.315
And that got me thinking about other kinds of focus.
00:28:56.049 --> 00:28:58.929
Think about the brain surgeon for instance.
00:28:59.490 --> 00:29:02.690
Hours of sustained focus during a surgery.
00:29:03.250 --> 00:29:06.289
Notice that kind of focus feels different.
00:29:06.609 --> 00:29:17.253
It's more of a constant performance oriented focus, more like an athlete in a game versus the lifeguard's focus which has more of a monitoring quality.
00:29:17.815 --> 00:29:22.773
The brain surgeon isn't monitoring, he's doing something intensely.
00:29:23.494 --> 00:29:28.970
But then, the surgery is over or the game is over and the focus can stop.
00:29:29.609 --> 00:29:33.450
Unlike in Michael's situation where it's always on.
00:29:34.009 --> 00:29:36.329
All this made me a little curious.
00:29:36.809 --> 00:29:40.970
Are there any professions where focus can be a detriment to the work?
00:29:42.295 --> 00:29:49.575
I couldn't come up with anything, so I ran it by Claude and it actually came up with a great example, psychoanalysts.
00:29:50.134 --> 00:29:53.974
They're apparently taught to withhold focus.
00:29:55.414 --> 00:30:04.919
Withhold focus for fear that they will unwittingly bias what they're hearing or latch on to some particular comment or theme.
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:10.599
Sigmund Freud advocated for evenly hovering attention.
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:12.200
Isn't that a great phrase?
00:30:12.755 --> 00:30:23.555
And it's such a contrast with the ocean lifeguard who is actively scanning for swimmers exhibiting warning signs like they're facing the shore and they have hair in their face.
00:30:24.115 --> 00:30:32.470
So maybe this is one way we can distinguish professions by looking at the shape of focus that they require.
00:30:34.069 --> 00:30:48.325
Looking out the tower window to catch what radar misses, sequencing departures like a moving puzzle, balancing safety and efficiency, and turning a crowded sky into a choreography.
00:30:49.044 --> 00:30:54.169
Folks, that's what it's like to be an air traffic controller.
00:30:54.890 --> 00:30:57.849
This episode was produced by Matt Purdy.
00:30:58.009 --> 00:30:59.369
I'm Dan Heath.
00:30:59.450 --> 00:31:00.329
See you next time.
00:00:00.479 --> 00:00:03.439
Michael Rejent is an air traffic controller.
00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:11.199
So the top of the tower where the controllers work is called the cab and it's stocked with high-tech equipment.
00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:16.964
And one of the most effective tools he uses to do his job, it's called a window.
00:00:17.125 --> 00:00:26.564
You're gonna catch an error much more quickly with your eyes out the window than you will looking at the ground radar.
00:00:26.910 --> 00:00:32.988
That's why it's really important because you would be like, oh, there's no way that guy's gonna stop, you know, if you're looking at it out the window.
00:00:32.988 --> 00:00:35.070
Like, I told him to hold short of Juliet.
00:00:35.070 --> 00:00:36.829
I know he's not gonna do it.
00:00:36.829 --> 00:00:41.534
So you would you'd call him up on the ground, hey, Delta four thirty five, just hold short of Juliet.
00:00:41.534 --> 00:00:49.534
So it turns out there's a good reason controllers work from the tallest perch on the airfield surrounded by glass.
00:00:49.774 --> 00:00:55.759
You know, it's a good way to make sure that what you think is happening is happening.
00:01:07.144 --> 00:01:10.424
I'm Dan Heath, and this is What It's Like to Be.
00:01:10.745 --> 00:01:19.704
In every episode, we walk in the shoes of someone from a different profession, an aircraft carrier commander, a pharmacy technician, a baker.
00:01:19.944 --> 00:01:21.545
We wanna know what they do all day at work.
00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:27.118
Today, we'll ask Michael Rejent what it's like to be an air traffic controller.
00:01:27.358 --> 00:01:43.724
We'll talk about what happened when a jet he hadn't cleared for takeoff took off, the puzzles he solves to keep jets from bunching up, and the pilot's words that put the whole tower on alert, stay with us.
00:01:48.045 --> 00:01:50.204
One quick note before we keep going here.
00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:56.060
Michael still works in the world of air traffic control, so he asked us to share this message.
00:01:56.299 --> 00:02:07.064
The views expressed here are my own and do not constitute an endorsement official policy or position of the Federal Aviation Administration or the Department of Transportation.
00:02:07.625 --> 00:02:08.025
Okay.
00:02:08.025 --> 00:02:09.145
Let's zoom out.
00:02:09.224 --> 00:02:11.944
Why do we need air traffic control at all?
00:02:12.425 --> 00:02:15.465
Well, pretty much for the same reason we need traffic lights.
00:02:15.625 --> 00:02:23.139
With enough planes in the sky, it gets unsafe and you need a way to figure out who goes where and whose turn it is.
00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:28.259
There are multiple levels of air traffic control, we'll get to that later.
00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:30.739
But let's start at the airport.
00:02:31.425 --> 00:02:35.824
Michael worked in a tower at Detroit Metro Airport for years.
00:02:36.064 --> 00:02:39.185
Detroit is a big complicated airfield.
00:02:39.264 --> 00:02:42.145
It's got six runways, hundreds of flight a day.
00:02:42.305 --> 00:02:47.889
To handle all that, the controllers in the cab are split into three roles.
00:02:48.289 --> 00:02:55.889
So there's a clearance delivery section and then three ground controls and three local controls.
00:02:56.370 --> 00:02:56.770
Okay.
00:02:56.770 --> 00:02:58.210
A little more about each of those roles.
00:02:58.664 --> 00:03:04.185
Clearance delivery gives pilots their flight plans before the planes ever leave the gate.
00:03:04.585 --> 00:03:09.944
Local control is in charge of clearing planes for takeoff and for landing.
00:03:10.344 --> 00:03:12.425
And in between is ground control.
00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:17.960
The controllers who direct planes taxiing between the gate and the runway.
00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:19.560
Ground control...
00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:21.400
Man, you are you're busy.
00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:22.919
You couldn't sit down.
00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:23.800
There was
00:03:23.959 --> 00:03:24.360
Yeah.
00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:26.519
If you sat down, you were you were missing something.
00:03:27.235 --> 00:03:37.474
And I know that one of the things that you're always thinking about is what's the right kind of rhythm or flow of of aircraft?
00:03:37.474 --> 00:03:54.139
Because on one hand, if you get too safety conscious and and create massive buffers between planes, then you get clogs and people can't get to their relatives' weddings and go see their sick grandma, you know, so that's a problem.
00:03:54.564 --> 00:03:58.884
But if you cram in too many planes, you're obviously creating a safety risk.
00:03:58.965 --> 00:04:02.645
Like, how do you kind of balance those those tensions?
00:04:03.044 --> 00:04:05.125
Well, that's that's exactly what it is.
00:04:05.125 --> 00:04:11.849
It's a very delicate balance between safety first and then efficiency.
00:04:12.650 --> 00:04:18.889
And it's always a constant calculation that you're running.
00:04:19.050 --> 00:04:37.375
If you have optimal conditions where, you know, it's clear in a million, you know, meaning you can see everywhere, the sky is blue, very calm wind, you know, nothing really there to obstruct the optimal flow of air traffic.
00:04:37.615 --> 00:04:47.000
All of your equipment is working properly, you know, Detroit's arrival rate is like a 132 flights an hour.
00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:47.800
Okay.
00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:50.279
So that's like a measure that you're thinking about Yeah.
00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:52.360
Is flights per hour, okay.
00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:52.519
Yeah.
00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:53.160
Yeah.
00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:55.675
Because it's all time based, you know.
00:04:55.675 --> 00:05:03.595
How much time does it take from the flight that's on five mile final to touch down on the ground?
00:05:04.235 --> 00:05:13.620
How much time does it take for it after it touches down on the ground to turn off the runway on the high speed taxiways, you know?
00:05:13.699 --> 00:05:22.180
So there's all of these things that you're constantly balancing in your mind, and and when it's perfect weather, hey man, it's like clockwork.
00:05:22.180 --> 00:05:28.264
Things are are smooth, it's a well oiled machine, everybody's working together, it's great.
00:05:28.264 --> 00:05:39.660
But when that anomaly comes into play, like you start getting some clouds on final or, you know, you get fog, it all starts to slow down.
00:05:39.819 --> 00:05:49.100
That's where the efficiency starts to decrease because of the actual conditions that make it unsafe.
00:05:49.180 --> 00:05:50.379
That's really helpful.
00:05:50.379 --> 00:05:52.694
Actually, I hadn't thought about it through that lens.
00:05:52.694 --> 00:05:54.533
It's almost like a volume knob.
00:05:54.533 --> 00:06:03.014
Or in this case, instead of volume, it's flow, where if conditions are perfect, you can kinda crank it up because it merits efficiency.
00:06:03.014 --> 00:06:03.334
Yeah.
00:06:03.334 --> 00:06:09.660
But as things degrade for various reasons, you've gotta kinda dial it back and increase the safety factor.
00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:10.779
Right.
00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:17.420
Michael told me about a time when they had to turn down the quote unquote flow knob because of weather.
00:06:17.819 --> 00:06:21.019
A thunderstorm had just rolled off the airfield in Detroit.
00:06:21.704 --> 00:06:26.745
Departures had been frozen, and Michael was in the tower working local control.
00:06:26.745 --> 00:06:32.904
So remember, it's the local controllers that are clearing planes for takeoff and landing.
00:06:33.144 --> 00:06:35.944
We had a heavy Airbus.
00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:38.759
It was a a three fifty nine.
00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:40.759
They were taxied out.
00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:49.800
They contacted me at local control, and I had just gotten word from the TRACON that, hey, your departures are released.
00:06:50.654 --> 00:06:56.654
TRACON, by the way, is the radar facility that handles planes once they're in the air around the airport.
00:06:56.654 --> 00:06:59.935
So they're the next link in the chain after the tower.
00:07:00.334 --> 00:07:00.735
Alright.
00:07:00.735 --> 00:07:08.259
So Michael clears the Airbus to take off on Runway 22 left with an immediate hard left turn to dodge the storm.
00:07:08.660 --> 00:07:17.379
Meanwhile, another plane, a CRJ, with about 60 people on board, was also ready for departure, and Michael gave them instructions.
00:07:18.095 --> 00:07:30.014
And I said SkyWest one twenty five hotel, [uintelligible] Tower, Runway 21 Right, line up and wait, caution wake turbulence, traffic, heavy Airbus departing two two left eastbound.
00:07:30.574 --> 00:07:30.975
Okay.
00:07:30.975 --> 00:07:34.800
So Michael is basically saying to the CRJ, hold up.
00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:36.959
You're not cleared for takeoff yet.
00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:42.639
Because he knew the Airbus was going to cut across the flight path of the CRJ.
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.519
So the Airbus takes off.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:57.345
And he is in a an almost an immediate left hand turn to avoid flying through the worst part of the thunderstorm that just moved off of the airfield to the south.
00:07:57.345 --> 00:08:13.610
So I look over there, I see that happening, and then I look over at 21 right, and I see the CRJ about 500 feet in the air halfway down the runway.
00:08:14.089 --> 00:08:18.089
Michael realizes the CRJ did not line up and wait.
00:08:18.634 --> 00:08:22.555
It took off with the Airbus right in its path.
00:08:22.795 --> 00:08:25.514
And I am like, what the heck?
00:08:25.834 --> 00:08:31.834
You know, and everybody in the tower looks right at that CRJ.
00:08:31.834 --> 00:08:36.970
And they're like, holy smokes, you know, like, there were some curse words in there.
00:08:36.970 --> 00:08:38.808
I suspect the language is a little worse.
00:08:38.808 --> 00:08:39.048
Yes.
00:08:39.048 --> 00:08:47.769
And I was like, SkyWest one twenty five hotel caution wake turbulence heavy airbus crossing right to left, turn right immediately.
00:08:47.769 --> 00:08:51.504
Basically, like, what the hell are you doing, you know?
00:08:51.504 --> 00:08:55.264
But my heart sank because I'm thinking, did I do something wrong?
00:08:55.504 --> 00:09:03.504
And then I go back to the CRJ and I'm like, SkyWest one twenty five hotel, I don't ever recall giving you a clearance for takeoff.
00:09:04.389 --> 00:09:05.029
Yeah.
00:09:05.029 --> 00:09:05.509
Oh, man.
00:09:05.509 --> 00:09:06.789
I'll never forget it.
00:09:07.029 --> 00:09:23.355
You know, and then I went back to the Airbus after I realized it was no factor because I'm trying to, like, peel the CRJ away from them, but I, you know, switched the the heavy Airbus that was, you know, going to Korea to departure, so they were radars control, and I I held on to the the CRJ.
00:09:23.355 --> 00:09:33.230
He remained on my frequency, and we have to give him like a a brasher warning, which is like, hey, possible pilot deviation, you know, I have a phone number advisory to copy, blah blah blah.
00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:34.509
So they write that down.
00:09:34.509 --> 00:09:35.629
What what does all that mean?
00:09:35.629 --> 00:09:38.830
Is that just like you might be in big trouble, bub, basically, or
00:09:39.149 --> 00:09:39.470
Yeah.
00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:47.644
But here's the thing, like, we as controllers in instances like that, we are not the police.
00:09:47.644 --> 00:09:55.325
We don't place blame or fault because that is not the time for it.
00:09:55.879 --> 00:10:16.514
You don't do any of those things on the frequency because you don't want to affect the psychological state of the pilots, like, they're thinking, oh my god, I made a mistake and that's not good and I'm gonna get into trouble and I'm gonna, you know, have my pilot's license suspended.
00:10:16.835 --> 00:10:18.835
You don't wanna do any of those things because
00:10:18.835 --> 00:10:19.153
Yeah.
00:10:19.153 --> 00:10:20.995
They have people on their plane.
00:10:20.995 --> 00:10:22.835
That is not the place for it.
00:10:22.835 --> 00:10:25.235
So that's where we we give out that phone number.
00:10:26.029 --> 00:10:31.309
Once they get to their destination, they call it, and then the information is handled at that point.
00:10:31.309 --> 00:10:36.350
And then there's an investigation, and then then, you know, we figure out what happens.
00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:40.504
And how close did the two planes get in this situation?
00:10:40.585 --> 00:10:41.865
I don't know.
00:10:42.424 --> 00:10:46.105
I'm telling you, it looked like it was five hundred feet.
00:10:46.105 --> 00:10:47.465
Oh my gosh.
00:10:47.544 --> 00:10:48.904
I don't know what it was.
00:10:48.904 --> 00:10:52.345
It could have been much further than that, but it was too close.
00:10:52.585 --> 00:10:57.009
And I went back, my supervisor was like, you screwed up, you screwed up.
00:10:57.009 --> 00:10:59.730
And I'm like, no, I didn't, I know what I said, you know.
00:10:59.730 --> 00:11:03.328
But there's still like that little bit of doubt in the back of your mind, right?
00:11:03.328 --> 00:11:08.049
But I, man, after I got off position, ran downstairs and I listened to to the tapes.
00:11:08.054 --> 00:11:13.174
I checked the tapes, that's something that we say, you know, when we're we're trying to, like, defend ourselves.
00:11:13.174 --> 00:11:16.375
Like, check the tapes, you know, because everything's recorded.
00:11:16.934 --> 00:11:19.095
I went downstairs, I was right.
00:11:19.335 --> 00:11:21.414
He took off without a clearance.
00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:25.759
What was the aftermath of that like for you?
00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:29.120
Like, how do you I mean, did you go back to work after that?
00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:29.679
Yeah.
00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:29.919
Yeah.
00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.120
I mean, I went back like thirty minutes later.
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:34.240
Woah.
00:11:34.875 --> 00:11:39.355
I mean, how do you kinda settle your emotions after something like that happens?
00:11:43.595 --> 00:11:50.009
You know, I guess you kinda like, you kinda stick it away, you know?
00:11:50.409 --> 00:11:51.129
Mhmm.
00:11:51.690 --> 00:12:03.355
And I'm sorry I'm getting a little emotional, but when you think about air traffic, and it's not like, I'm not getting emotional for this particular instance, but just
00:12:03.355 --> 00:12:03.833
Yeah.
00:12:03.833 --> 00:12:05.034
Overall, right?
00:12:05.034 --> 00:12:10.955
It's like, in the terminal environment, like, things happen immediately.
00:12:11.434 --> 00:12:11.674
Right?
00:12:12.100 --> 00:12:16.899
If there's a mistake made, the consequences are immediate.
00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:19.379
You see them immediately.
00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:46.389
I mean, the the thing that strikes me so much about this job is it is so routine and there's an order and there's a protocol and there are clear communications and, I mean, it must almost lull you into, you know, habit, but you also have to have this kind of maniacal focus at the same time because if you slip, like the pilot, thinking he had clearance when he didn't have it, people can die instantly.
00:12:46.389 --> 00:12:46.549
Yeah.
00:12:46.549 --> 00:12:56.975
And lots of people How do you maintain that intense focus when from day to day, nothing is happening, like everything is going in an orderly way.
00:12:57.453 --> 00:12:58.174
Yeah.
00:12:58.414 --> 00:13:04.414
You have to know that at any moment, something can happen.
00:13:04.815 --> 00:13:10.509
And if you have a plan, you can adapt and react.
00:13:10.750 --> 00:13:11.068
Mhmm.
00:13:11.068 --> 00:13:16.909
If you don't have a plan, it is so difficult to crawl out of that.
00:13:17.389 --> 00:13:27.955
And as far as dealing with the stress, I mean, some people put it away and it's demanding you to be on all the time.
00:13:28.355 --> 00:13:38.610
You have to be performing at your highest level every single time you're on position keying the mic.
00:13:39.490 --> 00:13:47.169
And I don't think people really realize how how tough that can be.
00:13:48.085 --> 00:13:54.804
After a short break, the one phrase that makes every controller in the room pause and look up.
00:13:56.404 --> 00:13:59.845
I'm Dallas Taylor, host of the Twenty Thousand Hertz podcast.
00:14:00.004 --> 00:14:06.629
On our show, sound designers, musicians, and experts reveal the secrets behind the most iconic sounds in the world.
00:14:06.708 --> 00:14:17.509
From the "I'm lovin' it" jingle to the sound effects of Star Wars, from the Netflix "tudum", to the music and sounds of Zelda.
00:14:19.634 --> 00:14:24.835
To unlock your sonic world, follow Twenty Thousand Hertz right here in your podcast player.
00:14:27.075 --> 00:14:29.554
Well, let's flip to the other side of the spectrum.
00:14:29.554 --> 00:14:39.669
I mean, it sounds like just a crazy stressful job, intense focus, big stakes, but there's something about it that appeals to you clearly.
00:14:39.669 --> 00:14:40.950
Like what what is it?
00:14:41.509 --> 00:14:53.073
It's the adrenaline that you get, the problems that are new that you have the ability to solve.
00:14:53.315 --> 00:14:53.953
Mhmm.
00:14:54.034 --> 00:15:00.649
And I think humans really enjoy that for the most part.
00:15:00.649 --> 00:15:04.169
I mean, some people are gonna say, oh, I hate solving problems, I just I want it to be easy.
00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:08.009
It's like, well, okay, well, maybe air traffic's not for you, you know?
00:15:08.009 --> 00:15:18.995
But it really is, you're always solving problems, you're always using your brain, thinking about different scenarios and trying to maximize the safety while balancing that efficiency.
00:15:19.153 --> 00:15:25.153
Give me like an example if one comes to mind, just to give us a sense of what you're talking about, those moment to moment problem solving.
00:15:25.659 --> 00:15:30.539
So I'll use, you know, ground control at Detroit for as an example, you know.
00:15:30.539 --> 00:15:30.940
Yeah.
00:15:31.419 --> 00:15:36.379
You have different spacing between your aircraft departures.
00:15:36.379 --> 00:15:36.700
Right?
00:15:36.700 --> 00:15:37.100
Mhmm.
00:15:37.100 --> 00:15:51.024
If you have two aircraft that are going out the same departure gate, they need five miles in between one another so that it's manageable for the radar controller to control them.
00:15:51.024 --> 00:15:52.304
They're not too close.
00:15:52.304 --> 00:15:52.625
Right?
00:15:52.625 --> 00:15:53.024
Okay.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:16:14.424
So, you know, this happened quite often at Detroit where you would get six or seven planes that you're sequencing to the the West Departure Runway, and they have three different departure fixes that they're going to be passing through after they they get in the air.
00:16:14.583 --> 00:16:21.225
Well, you you don't wanna put all of those aircraft back to back that are going out the same gates.
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:21.919
Right?
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:24.320
You wanna kinda we call it sequence.
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:45.404
You wanna sequence where they are on the ground so that your local controller, all they have to do is just say clear for takeoff, and they don't have to worry about that spacing because the first guy is going out due West, the second departure is going to the Southwest, and then the third departure is going to the South.
00:16:45.404 --> 00:16:47.804
And then you just start that all over again.
00:16:47.965 --> 00:16:49.325
By the time that you get
00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:50.120
Oh I see.
00:16:50.120 --> 00:17:06.294
Yeah, by the time that you get to that fourth aircraft that is going due west, you have maybe 12 miles between those two aircraft, which is plenty of space for that radar controller to use to manage the departures without being too close.
00:17:06.615 --> 00:17:10.055
Oh, that helps me understand like the puzzle aspect of it.
00:17:10.055 --> 00:17:10.534
Yeah.
00:17:10.615 --> 00:17:16.775
It's like you're you're just trying to build in these almost natural buffers between different planes by clever sequencing.
00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:17.950
Right.
00:17:17.950 --> 00:17:26.990
And you would do that on the ground by, you know, those departures aren't all coming from taxing out of the same spot, they're in different areas.
00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:37.424
So you you might have to, you know, hold one short of a certain taxiway so that the guy that's going due south can pass him, and then you tuck the due westbound guy behind him, right?
00:17:37.424 --> 00:17:37.585
So
00:17:37.744 --> 00:17:38.065
Right.
00:17:38.065 --> 00:17:38.545
So it's kind of
00:17:38.625 --> 00:17:39.105
Yeah.
00:17:39.105 --> 00:17:45.105
You're kind of creating like a stoplight on the ground, on the movement area at the terminal.
00:17:46.250 --> 00:17:49.608
Michael doesn't work in a tower at an airport anymore.
00:17:49.609 --> 00:18:00.009
He's been promoted to a place most people have never heard of, the FAA's air traffic control system command center, just outside of Washington DC.
00:18:00.684 --> 00:18:01.884
So bear with me here.
00:18:01.884 --> 00:18:08.044
We talked about the airports, then TRACON, which is the airspace around the airport.
00:18:08.365 --> 00:18:16.125
Then there are en route centers, which handle big stretches of sky and hand off planes like a relay race.
00:18:16.579 --> 00:18:22.259
There are 20 of them in the Continental US. Cleveland Center, New York Center, and so forth.
00:18:22.819 --> 00:18:28.019
Where Michael works now, the command center sits above all of this.
00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:32.493
The top of the food chain, the fourth level of air traffic control.
00:18:32.653 --> 00:18:37.694
Airports, TRACON, en route centers, and the command center.
00:18:38.335 --> 00:18:47.269
The command center is critical because it's trying to keep a problem in one part of the system from cascading throughout the whole thing.
00:18:47.269 --> 00:18:53.029
Kinda like you don't want a traffic jam in one spot to paralyze the whole city's flow of cars.
00:18:53.430 --> 00:18:58.230
The command center can help reroute planes around problem areas.
00:18:59.013 --> 00:19:03.575
So we'll say, okay, hey, New York Center, we see you have some weather there.
00:19:03.894 --> 00:19:18.319
Can we move some of these flights up through Boston that are coming from Cleveland and you decrease your miles-in-trail request from Cleveland so that we're not holding planes on the ground at O'Hare?
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.000
miles-in-trail, that's padding.
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.000
The distance between planes.
00:19:24.663 --> 00:19:31.544
Sort of like the knob idea we talked about earlier, when conditions deteriorate, you want more padding.
00:19:31.544 --> 00:19:33.624
That's more miles-in-trail.
00:19:34.105 --> 00:19:35.384
And they'll say, yeah, sure.
00:19:35.384 --> 00:19:36.585
Let's talk to Boston.
00:19:36.585 --> 00:19:39.384
So we talked to Boston Center, Boston Center says, yeah, sure.
00:19:39.384 --> 00:19:47.509
We'll take some Cleveland's flights, know, Cleveland, you give us 20 in trail, 20 miles in between each of those flights.
00:19:47.509 --> 00:19:58.394
So Cleveland kinda works with Boston then, and they they essentially like create a new highway in the sky on a route that's kind of already there.
00:19:58.394 --> 00:20:06.954
So it's basically, like, creating a little bit of a detour to decrease that bottleneck in the miles-in-trail that's passed back.
00:20:06.954 --> 00:20:07.515
Right.
00:20:07.674 --> 00:20:08.315
Right.
00:20:08.315 --> 00:20:08.555
Right.
00:20:09.109 --> 00:20:18.548
So it's sort of like on Google Maps, like, there's a clog on some interstate highway, like, Google Maps is crafty enough to tell you, okay, take this feeder road, go around.
00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:24.309
It's a Circuitous route, but it's still, number one, helping you, but also helping the system flow.
00:20:25.085 --> 00:20:25.484
Right.
00:20:25.484 --> 00:20:32.365
And I I guess in this that particular scenario there that you presented, the command center picks the route for you.
00:20:32.605 --> 00:20:32.924
Yeah.
00:20:32.924 --> 00:20:40.579
So the command center tells the driver, okay, you're looking at Google Maps, you've got twenty four minutes, twenty six minutes, and thirty minutes.
00:20:40.579 --> 00:20:40.900
Alright.
00:20:40.900 --> 00:20:45.138
You know, Joe, you're coming from Cleveland, you're gonna take the twenty four minute route.
00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:52.420
Tim, you're gonna take the twenty seven minute route, and Fred, you're gonna take the thirty minute route, and it's all gonna blend in.
00:20:53.144 --> 00:20:57.304
The other big thing the command center does is watch the weather.
00:20:57.704 --> 00:21:04.585
They have the National Weather Service embedded right there in the building, forecasters who do nothing but track aviation weather.
00:21:05.049 --> 00:21:15.288
So when a line of thunderstorms is bearing down on a major airport like O'Hare, Michael knows almost to the minute when it's gonna hit and how long it will sit there.
00:21:15.609 --> 00:21:22.993
The question is what to do about all the planes already heading that way and all the ones about to take off.
00:21:23.474 --> 00:21:45.329
So the command center will say, alright, well, we already have these flights in the air and we don't want anything to to get airborne that will be affected by weather by the time they get there, so we put out what's called a first tier ground stop.
00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:46.049
Mhmm.
00:21:46.049 --> 00:22:03.069
So we will tell all of the the adjacent centers that are within an hour flying time of Chicago O'Hare, hey, keep all of your O'Hare flights on the ground due to thunderstorms.
00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:05.148
So you're the ground stop people?
00:22:05.390 --> 00:22:06.029
Yes.
00:22:06.029 --> 00:22:07.308
The ground stop yeah.
00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:14.669
I'm I'm the ground stop and the ground delay programs and the airspace flow programs.
00:22:15.384 --> 00:22:26.105
Well, before you leave the Chicago one, I'm just curious, like, if you have a flight coming from Korea to land at O'Hare and, you know, obviously, when they left, the the thunderstorm may not have been foreseeable.
00:22:26.505 --> 00:22:29.130
Do they still land or or what happens?
00:22:29.130 --> 00:22:29.529
No.
00:22:29.529 --> 00:22:36.569
If the weather is directly impacting them and they're not comfortable landing through the weather, then they will hold.
00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:51.673
That's why we put that ground stop out at the command center to Minimize the amount of aircraft that are going to hold, and really, are going to have the potential to divert to one of their alternate airports.
00:22:52.075 --> 00:23:00.319
And the pilot from Korea, like, if they wanted to land in the thunderstorm, is it up to them or are you saying, no, don't even try?
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:00.880
No.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.119
It is it is the pilot's decision.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:03.680
Oh, wow.
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:06.480
It is it is up to the pilot to land.
00:23:06.558 --> 00:23:07.039
Okay.
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.279
We're air traffic controllers, we're not pilots.
00:23:09.585 --> 00:23:10.065
Yeah.
00:23:10.065 --> 00:23:12.784
We don't make decisions for them in that regard.
00:23:12.784 --> 00:23:20.544
You know, they are in charge of their aircraft and responsible for their passengers and that decision is ultimately up to them.
00:23:21.183 --> 00:23:25.898
What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about air traffic controllers?
00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:32.700
I I think one of the biggest misconceptions is, you know, that we control everything and and that's not always the case, you know.
00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:39.065
We're not trying to delay your flight, we're not trying to cause you to miss your connection.
00:23:39.305 --> 00:24:02.739
I do think people need to realize that it is a very very complex and large system and ten to fifteen minutes of delay in the morning for your first flight of the day turns into potentially an hour and a half for that flight and that crew at their end of the day.
00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:03.298
Mhmm.
00:24:03.298 --> 00:24:05.605
So that's where it's like it cascades.
00:24:05.605 --> 00:24:09.204
I mean, you can't you can't really make all of that time up.
00:24:09.923 --> 00:24:14.325
So Michael, we always end our episodes with a quick lightning round of questions.
00:24:14.404 --> 00:24:15.284
Here we go.
00:24:15.845 --> 00:24:21.920
What is a word or phrase that only someone from your profession would be likely to know, and what does it mean?
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:24.160
Gosh, I bet you've got about a thousand choices here.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:25.279
Yeah, I do.
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:37.055
Well, I we could say no joy, that means I don't have the traffic in sight, or sometimes pilots will say, tally ho, I have the traffic in sight.
00:24:37.055 --> 00:24:39.134
No joy and tally ho.
00:24:39.214 --> 00:24:39.855
Yeah.
00:24:40.174 --> 00:25:00.079
The pilot would use no joy in the scenario where the controller has pointed out traffic to them that they're either to follow or avoid, and the pilot will say, no joy, we don't see that aircraft to follow, no joy.
00:25:00.605 --> 00:25:08.525
No joy on the traffic. And then when they do see them, they might say, tally ho, we got him in sight, we'll follow him or we'll avoid.
00:25:09.005 --> 00:25:13.404
What phrase or sentence strikes fear in the heart of an air traffic controller?
00:25:14.930 --> 00:25:16.929
I'd like to declare an emergency.
00:25:17.009 --> 00:25:17.648
Oh.
00:25:17.650 --> 00:25:21.009
And who would would would the pilot be saying that, or your colleague, or what?
00:25:21.009 --> 00:25:21.490
Yeah.
00:25:21.490 --> 00:25:22.849
The pilot would be saying that.
00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:23.490
Oh, okay.
00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:23.970
Okay.
00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:37.085
I don't know that it strikes fear, but that's where you're putting your hand up in the air and snapping your fingers trying to get the sup's attention or get somebody's attention, you know, hey, and you're you're doing that as the pilot saying it, right?
00:25:37.085 --> 00:25:37.403
Yeah.
00:25:37.403 --> 00:25:44.558
Hey, this is Delta one thirty two heavy, I'd like to declare an emergency, we've got engine one out, you know, That's getting your attention.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:45.599
You know what?
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:55.679
When we talked to the pilot, we talked to a commercial pilot who's been working for thirty five plus years, and he had one of those situations where one of his engines caught on fire.
00:25:55.679 --> 00:25:58.398
And so I imagine that would be a call you would get.
00:25:58.398 --> 00:25:58.558
Right?
00:25:58.904 --> 00:25:59.464
Yeah.
00:25:59.464 --> 00:26:00.183
Absolutely.
00:26:00.265 --> 00:26:01.944
And so what happens from there?
00:26:02.424 --> 00:26:17.160
So at that point, you know, the controller is getting information from the pilot, you know, what's the nature of the emergency, what are your desires, souls on board, fuel remaining in pounds, you know, we're we're getting some very brief information when they have time.
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:31.134
We're trying not to talk to them as little as we can because we know that they're running checklists, going through everything that they need to do to make sure that they're going to operate their aircraft the way that they're supposed to.
00:26:31.134 --> 00:26:31.535
So we're
00:26:31.535 --> 00:26:31.694
Yeah.
00:26:31.694 --> 00:26:54.673
We're trying to leave them alone, but while all of those things are going on with a pilot in air traffic side in the background, we are, like I said, getting that supervisor's attention, getting another controller's attention and saying, hey, this guy's got an emergency, he's gonna be going to Dulles and we need to clear the airspace because he needs a straight in right now, you know.
00:26:54.673 --> 00:26:57.554
He lost an engine or something to that effect.
00:26:58.273 --> 00:27:02.273
What is an aspect of your work that you consistently savor?
00:27:02.994 --> 00:27:10.618
I really savor and cherish being able to help people get to where they need to go.
00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:21.980
I really enjoy that and every decision I make, I have that in the front of my mind is how do I get these people where they need to go, you know.
00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:26.604
Life happens and sometimes you need to you need to get places.
00:27:26.605 --> 00:27:31.644
A wedding, a funeral, go back home from your work trip.
00:27:31.964 --> 00:27:40.829
I really am honored to be able to help the country and the flying public get to where they need to go.
00:27:41.390 --> 00:27:52.903
And this is one of we we've talked to other people who have jobs that have this characteristic, but this is one of those jobs where you only really notice it when there's a problem or a catastrophe.
00:27:53.144 --> 00:27:53.784
Yeah.
00:27:54.183 --> 00:28:06.469
We have a phrase in air traffic, and it's kinda sad in a way, but we always say that you are only as good as your last transmission.
00:28:07.028 --> 00:28:15.190
So you could be the best damn controller in the world, but if you make a mistake, that's what everybody's gonna hear.
00:28:24.394 --> 00:28:27.194
Michael Rejent is an air traffic controller.
00:28:27.700 --> 00:28:32.259
He currently works at the FAA's command center near Washington DC.
00:28:33.460 --> 00:28:37.298
You're only as good as your last transmission.
00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:43.220
That vigilant focus is the heart of what air traffic controllers do.
00:28:44.035 --> 00:28:52.115
It reminded me of the ocean lifeguard we talked to in the sense of constantly having to fight complacency and stay alert.
00:28:52.994 --> 00:28:55.315
And that got me thinking about other kinds of focus.
00:28:56.049 --> 00:28:58.929
Think about the brain surgeon for instance.
00:28:59.490 --> 00:29:02.690
Hours of sustained focus during a surgery.
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Notice that kind of focus feels different.
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It's more of a constant performance oriented focus, more like an athlete in a game versus the lifeguard's focus which has more of a monitoring quality.
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The brain surgeon isn't monitoring, he's doing something intensely.
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But then, the surgery is over or the game is over and the focus can stop.
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Unlike in Michael's situation where it's always on.
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All this made me a little curious.
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Are there any professions where focus can be a detriment to the work?
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I couldn't come up with anything, so I ran it by Claude and it actually came up with a great example, psychoanalysts.
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They're apparently taught to withhold focus.
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Withhold focus for fear that they will unwittingly bias what they're hearing or latch on to some particular comment or theme.
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Sigmund Freud advocated for evenly hovering attention.
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Isn't that a great phrase?
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And it's such a contrast with the ocean lifeguard who is actively scanning for swimmers exhibiting warning signs like they're facing the shore and they have hair in their face.
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So maybe this is one way we can distinguish professions by looking at the shape of focus that they require.
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Looking out the tower window to catch what radar misses, sequencing departures like a moving puzzle, balancing safety and efficiency, and turning a crowded sky into a choreography.
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Folks, that's what it's like to be an air traffic controller.
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This episode was produced by Matt Purdy.
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I'm Dan Heath.
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See you next time.
