Peter Abelard & Heloise

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Hello, Hi, oh Hello, that's okay.
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I'm back in London and you know, we love London folks.
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But it's like the vibes, the vibes do go downhill
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once you leave the continent. It has to be said,
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like even like attempting to leave. It's quite funny because
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you know, since I'm Irish maxing and uh, passport logging
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at all times, it's like I just kind of breeze
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about do whatever I want.
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But Justin is cursed with a UK passport, so he
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has to line up with all the non EU people and.
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Like you have to now be fingerprinted whenever you're like
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going in and out of the or something like that.
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So like I'm not joking, like I'm just okay, Well
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I'm in the U line like Cinara Sucker, I'll see
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in there and I go get us seats and I
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guess it must have been like eleven sixteen when I
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sat down. I know this because there were time stamps
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on it, and I'm just like, dude, dude, just like vibing,
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I'm posting, you know obviously, and.
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Then like I look up and I'm like, where the
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fuck is Justin.
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It's like he eventually gets into the lobby at like
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eleven fifty or something, and I was like, yikes, and uh,
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you know, it's just one of the many indignities and
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Brexit fundamentally so.
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The indignities of Bricksit my favorite Pogues album.
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Yeah, a difficult second album, if ever I've heard one.
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Yeah, yep, yep, yep. M How are your friend?
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Oh I'm good, you know, here doing doing whatever I
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can to stay out of the the sun. It is
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unbearably hot here. August worst month of the year, always
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the worst month of the true I don't want to
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hear anything else. I don't to hear things about February
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or January or whatever. The fuck. No, it's August. Nothing good.
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The weather is always dog ship and uh yeah it's
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uh it sucks. Yeah, this is uh anti August podcast.
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Anti August action.
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Yeah you heard, no no August.
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No, there's no we have no holidays. We have no no,
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no no holidays that people really go out of their way.
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I think our day is possibly in August or something
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like that. But yeah, it's like.
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Yeah, yeah, it's too Yeah, it's like nothing but joyless
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and oppressive heat. I don't know.
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Here in England, everything is on fire quite literally, but
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I wouldn't worry about it. I think it's probably like,
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it's probably fine that the other day in Greenwich Park
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there was.
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A dust devil.
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I probably wouldn't worry about it. I don't think we
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need to worry about climate breakdown at all. I think
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it's probably good. It's probably fine that it hasn't rained
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here for over a month and everything is brown and dying,
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and I don't think that there's anything to worry about anyway.
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Our glorious new Prime Minister is gonna do some more
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north sea drilling about it, so I think that that'll
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probably start itself out.
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Probably if we just say, do.
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A bit more drilling in the north Sea, I think
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it'll it'll just sort itself out, won't.
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It all all done? Nothing to see here, folks dusting dramatically,
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dusting off my palms, turning on a diamond, leaving my
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work here is done. But you didn't do anything, didn't I.
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I gonna I mean, we'll probably have to save it
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for eleanor rants about UK politics, Patriot or something soon.
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But bro like the vibes subterranean. Yeah, so what are
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we gonna do?
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You know?
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Yeah?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, well we should probably get yeah, a
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quick quick thing. Yesterday I was I texted you about it.
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I was going through I was going through the Internet
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archive looking for something, and I found our our good,
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our good friend Nicitis Conneats the thirteenth century Byzantine chronicler,
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historian whatever. And yeah, he was writing between the the
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the late eleven hundreds and the early twelve hundreds, and
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he was there at the the the original fall of Constantinople,
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not the revision, the fourteen fifty three revisionist one, the
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original the o G fallow up of Constantinople, which he
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does capitalize as fall of Constantinople, so you know, yeah,
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periodization is not is not new by any stretch. And
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he uh, but but I was looking for something else
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and I was struck by he writes about it, and
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he when he he gets to the end of it,
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he's he's clearly heartbroke, and he's gone on like this
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three or four page like diatribe, you know, because like
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oh City of Brilliant, Oh Queen of City, oh, you know,
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like and they all they all do it, and and
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you know it's it's it's legitimate. He is uh, he
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is very distraught, but he uh, but he he gets
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to the point, he gets to the to the end
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of this, and he starts to turn it into this
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metaphor about the fall of Troy and Helen of Troy,
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and he also capitalized fall of Troy like that, and
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uh he he's trying, I think the best I can tell,
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because this is a scan of like an old copy
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of a like a twenty early twentieth century English translation
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of this. But the best thing I can tell, he's
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trying to say, like Constantinople is like the Queen of
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City is like Helen of Troy, and and and he's
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and he's comparing it to the beauty of Helen of
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Troy and the ruin of Helen of Troy and all
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of this sort of stuff. And then like he as
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he's doing it, he kind of gets his metaphors mixed,
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and he starts talking about like how it's like they
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are the Trojans and the Latins are are the Greeks,
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and and they've reenacted it, and and he just he's,
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he's he's heartbroken. He's mixing his metaphors. And I realized
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that like people ham fistedly comparing their current circumstances to
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a big event fictional or otherwise. He's I mean, he
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talks about it like like these are real people and
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this really happened, so I'm not going to doubt that.
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But and uh, and then just like ending up mixing
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the metaphors and being so on the nose you can't
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even stand it, like, uh, god, damn it always been
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like this. You know, I was struck by it. It
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was profoundly sad, but also like wow that.
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The like the the white boy longs in his heart
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to lament the social.
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Realities, you know, man, So it's it's so good.
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Yeah.
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Also, just shout out to the Internet archive. Use it
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so much. I give them, I give them, I tithe.
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Absolutely. They have a lot of old books on there,
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a lot of old like manuscript style books and goals
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and things like that that you would normally not even
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have to go to like a library, where you'd have
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to go to like a specialty like you have to
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go to like a specialty place to to even look
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at it. And but but yeah, it's our age of
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bronze is collapsing. Uh, we're going into it.
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Then linear B.
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You know what off linear B? What if my and
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he's but he's doing it. He's periodizing the whole thing
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and he's just calling back to to to Troy, to
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the fall of Troy.
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Well, you know what, I think that if you ask
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someone who considers themselves a Roman, right, they're going to
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be the ones who are doing it the hardest. Right.
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So yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah, there
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we go. Oh he does say us Romans like he calls,
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and he's right to do it. I love it. I
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think it's so cute. I do. I think it's you know,
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I think it's uh, you know that was the fall
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of Rome down. That's so so so adorable.
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I agree with him.
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I'm like, yeah, I know he's right. It's just uh yeah,
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that's so that's so sweet.
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Anyway, the Troy sounds funny though. Oh good, good times.
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Hello, welcome back to We're Not So Different podcast about
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how it's it's sad. It's sad when when bad thing
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happens and you have to call back to, uh, to
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the one story everyone knows. Yep, all right, folks today,
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Uh fuck it, it's uh it's Peter. I have a
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hard time for better and for worse. Uh. But before
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we get there. We get a couple questions from our patrons,
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first from Ali Kant, who says, what was dental care
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like in the Middle Ages and what were the different practices.
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I bet I got ideas, and I bet they aren't good.
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Listen, You've got ideas, and the ideas are probably correct,
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is what I would point out. But I hasten to
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add that one of the things that is going on
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in the medieval period is their teeth are kind of
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a little bit better than ours just because they don't
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have access to sugar.
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Yes, yeah, yeah, yes.
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So they don't have a lot of the same problems
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that we do with tooth to kay and things like that,
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because it's like, yeah, they wish they could access sugar
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like this is. I mean, you can very occasionally get
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sugar that'll come up from Africa, but I'm sure you
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can understand how expensive that is. So it's like, yeah,
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there's honey, Yeah, sure, sure there is. But you know,
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it is just one of these things where you're just
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not getting enough in your diet to really fuck your
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teeth up as much as we are now we can.
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We can fuck our teeth up all goddamn day long,
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right like you know, every cavity I ever had in
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my life is down to mountain dew consumption at the
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age of seventeen, right.
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Yeah, I'm just just just slamming fruit by the foot
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and gushers, oh yeah, just annihilating my teeth.
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Yeah, completely, And there's just like not a whole lot
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that actually can be done about it when you're eating
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sugar at that level and they just aren't.
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They just aren't because they can't.
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You know, they wish, they wish they were doing it
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like us, but no can do so like that is
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it is one thing to consider.
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But yeah, they're mostly just like hoofing your tooth out.
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They're mostly like gonna get you kind of like numbed
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up as best they can, and they're just gonna like
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go to town.
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On that puppy.
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And so you know, like there isn't kind of they
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do have, you know, they brush their teeth and things
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like that. But I also hasten to add that another
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thing to keep in mind is that until after World
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War Two, toothpaste didn't really do anything except like yeah yeah, yeah,
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so it's like good luck, God bless have fun out there, kid.
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But you know that is something that we've got to now,
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so I mean like Victorians, they're in a much worse
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situation tooth wise, yes, right than and indeed dental surgery
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hadn't really progressed whole fucking lot at that point in time.
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Uh yeah, So I mean listen, it's pretty much as
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grizzly as you would think.
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It's just also more rare, which is good question. Yeah,
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I guess.
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Yeah, I'm just thinking about like the actual like because
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if you're doing this, like it's got to get to
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a state to where it's real bad. Oh yeah, and
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like but the thing about it is like when a
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tooth gets to that state, like it's gonna have to
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come out cleaning it. It has to come out, and
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cleaning that out is like like, oh, I think I've talked.
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I'm not gonna talk about it more because it squigs
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me out. But I hate going to do this. I
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do it because I know I have to, and like
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it's a it's an affront to like everybody who didn't
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have it to like not do it, but like I
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hate it. I hate it so much. And so the
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idea of any of this like somebody rooting around in
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my mouth at all, Like yeah, fingers or eat like.
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Ah, yeah, yeah, no gloves, yeah, absolutely, no glass, absolutely,
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I don't.
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Like there's something about the dental process and like, uh
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huh the thing I feel, I don't Yeah, I feel
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not not a fan. It squeaked me out a lot. However,
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you should go to the dentist. Do not let my
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weirdness uh dissuade you from that if you can. Hopefully
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you can, because I know it's not included in a
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lot of places, and uh, in dental care because these
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are the these are the luxury bones. They don't you know, they're.
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Yeah, I mean one of my most crank opinions about this, like,
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for example, a lot of dental care is not included
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in the NHS. Is my one of my most crank
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opinions about it is that because it doesn't necessarily kill
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you and it's a reliable class indicator.
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Yeah, they we keep it. That's that's what I believe
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to be true.
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Yeah, I get really been out of shape when people
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make jokes about British dentistry as a result of this
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as well, even though like British industry is like pretty.
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Fine anymore, Like that's a fashion thing to say.
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But you know, I've stopped except the Big Book of
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British Smiles. That's important.
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It's important as a reaction image if like, if a
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British person does get too out of pocket online, I
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will say that.
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And especially the portrait of Charles, and they're it's just.
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So important, it's so important. It's fine to do it
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to Prince Charles. Okay, it's always fine to bully the monarchy.
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It's just everyone else that I don't like it happening to.
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It's it's not their fault, it's you know. The thing
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about it is is like before fluoride was invented, like
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not before it was invented, but before like we discovered
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it and were able to like I guess synthesize it
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in some way and stuff like that, Like, uh, that
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much you could do for teeth, like there just wasn't
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like because they're because there's you can't you can't. Yeah,
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you can't inject anything into them. You can't, like you know,
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and brushing your teeth was not like a super duper
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common practice outside of like cities and stuff until maybe
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World War One. Is maybe it's it was, it's very
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far more recent than we might think. Anyway. Yeah, this
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is one of those things that unites people across all
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of time and space until the invention of fluoride. Is
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that fucking sucks for everyone rich, poor. It does not matter.
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It fucking sucked, just they gotta rip that ship out
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it anyway, Olly, thank you very much for the question.
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Uh next, got one from energy in your face, who says,
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let's talk gout right, gout.
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Chat shout out gout, shout out gout.
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So you know a lot of people. Sorry, I'm going
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on with the question that. Yeah, like no, I was
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just like talk about the brother the medical problem known
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as gout. Anyway, So, like ninety people had struggles to
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get their caloric intake met while nobles ate so much
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meat they got gout. How much meat is to meat?
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Too much meat like fog to chao or Korean barbecue
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twice daily without any salad or pickle, veggies or anything,
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the modern equivalent of fibervies a day. I can't conceive
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of the amount of meat you need to get gout.
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And I am a modern American.
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Okay, Yeah, so here's the thing I'm about to bring
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some like bad. It's more complex than that news to
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the chat, as is my want, which is that gout
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is actually largely not due to dietary practice per se.
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It's genetic.
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Yep.
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I know this because my husband has scout, which.
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Oh your husband who consumes who consumes ten racks of
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lamb a day, Well.
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That's like hundred percent.
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And I got to say that, like his Kiwi family
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did be going to town on lamb constantly.
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So who's lamb is delicious?
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Listen, it's it's just like they come by it honestly, right,
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If they're not going to eat a sheep, they're gonna
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shag it.
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So you know, wait Kiwi jokes am I right am?
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I right?
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Take that, you nation of wonderful scally waggs who I
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love anyway. So yeah, one of the big reasons we
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00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:50.160
tend to see it a lot in uh Royalty, for example,
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it is not because they're eating so much meat because
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they're it's because they're so fucking inbread, right, they're passing
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00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.400
around the same five goddamn jeans and one of them
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is gout right, That's that's what they got going on there,
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And so as a result, it comes up more often.
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Now the thing.
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That makes your gout hurt because what happens it's a
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build up of crystallized uric acid in the blood that
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usually goes around your big toe.
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For whatever reason, it just gets congested down there.
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I don't fuck know, you know, have I looked this
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much into my loving husband's medical condition? No?
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Dog, No, I haven't.
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00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:36.519
Okay, but what does it is actually purines, And so
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you have to be careful about what you eat so
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that it doesn't contain purines. And so, for example, I
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accidentally like poisoned poor Blair last year because you know,
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I was like vibing out down Chinese grocery, as is
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my wont and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna make
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some noodles.
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That'll be great.
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And I picked up a green vegetable that I hadn't
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worked with before that I later learned was water spinach.
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I was like, I don't even know who she is,
330
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but she's looking at the green and leafy, and due
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to like my vegmaxing policy, I was like, gotta throw
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this in the noodles, right.
333
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Yeah.
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So Blair had a full like Homer Simpson in the
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Sandwich moment, where like he did it, he didn't kind
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of realize at first that it was like the noodles
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because he was like, well, well, maybe I don't know,
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maybe we've been drinking or something like that, and drinking
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can set it off, right, particularly drinking beer. So like
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beer is worse than wine because it's got more purines
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in and so he was like, oh, I don't know,
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like a gout kind of hurts today. I was like, yeah,
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that's crazy. Anyway, like i'd made I always make leftovers.
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He takes me to work or whatever, and he's like
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oh ow ow.
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And he was like why, what's what? Like what did
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you put in this?
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And I was like, I don't know, you know this
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and that like mysterious vegetable and water spinach is apparently
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fucking full of purines. And he was just like in
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massive pain for a couple of days, which was cool,
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and like the poor thing was like, you know, really
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had to struggle through it. And it's like, so, for example,
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the thing that hurts him the most is asparagus, you know, yeah, yeah,
355
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and he loves asparagus, so it's really.
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It's really sad.
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Yeah yeah, and so like he basically can't eat asparagus,
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which is so fucking rough, and so yeah.
359
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:29.200
It's it's actually it's not.
360
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The point is, yeah, meat's probably not great for it,
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but that's not the thing doing the thing, right, It's
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not really meat, it's just like whatever and interesting, so
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like gout, you know, and like there's it must be
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pronounced like goo goo.
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Gil or something like that.
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Alf say, like that is the word for like a
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good taste or something like that. And so I think
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that basically they're like, oh, rich people get this all
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the time. Rich people also be eating meat, therefore this
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has to do with that. And yeah, but it's like
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if you were also consuming your body weight in ale,
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which ordinary people are doing in order to stay like
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get their calories, you would be in so much like
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all consuming pain.
375
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:23.000
Right, yeah, yeah, I mean it appears that like sixty
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percent of the uric acid variability comes from genetics and
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only about twelve percent comes from dietary ingestionous you know,
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00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:43.920
stuff you're eating. I think, like it's also not any meat,
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00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.039
it's organ meat that does it. That is a big thing.
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So like the organ the internal organs being used and
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chopped up because they retain uric acid and stuff like that.
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So I mean, I think and a big part of
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that is like pataise and stuff, which is I do
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be rich people, which is like and back in the
385
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.079
day would have been like rich like only rich people
386
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:12.640
type food. So like you can see how how those
387
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:18.799
two things got connected. But yeah, it sounds awful. Makes
388
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:19.559
your feet hurt?
389
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.200
Uh, careful with that water spinach guys.
390
00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:27.319
All right, yeah, yep, junior face, Thank you very much
391
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.839
for the question. If you want to ask us questions
392
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:35.599
like these, then please do subscribe to our patroon patreon
393
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:39.039
dot com slash w NSD pod five bucks a month.
394
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:43.240
You can ask us questions like those. You get access
395
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:50.079
to two bonus episodes a month. We've got our fifth episode,
396
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:55.039
fifth book Club episode on Between two Fires coming up
397
00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:59.759
on Friday, so check that out if you're interested. And yeah,
398
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.440
it helps us out and we really appreciate it. Anyway,
399
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.200
onto the main show. So occasionally, when you study history,
400
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:10.440
you find individuals who seem to be aberrations in the timeline,
401
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:13.240
people whose ideas and understandings of their own world seem
402
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:17.559
to mirror our own modern postmodern sensibilities to such a
403
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.839
striking degree that they feel unstuck from time. I think
404
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:24.440
Cyrus the Great's dogged commitment to religious pluralism within the
405
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.400
Acumuenid Empire, which he pursued to such a degree that
406
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:31.599
he was venerated as a liberator and protector simultaneously by
407
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.839
four separate socio religious traditions in five point fifty BCE,
408
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.599
or Hildegard of being in visionary Acorus, an advocate of
409
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:42.920
women whose arguments for better treatment of women seem misplaced
410
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:46.240
by several centuries, and whose detailed descriptions of her own
411
00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:52.240
disability have allowed historians to most likely pinpoint the type
412
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.519
of ailment she suffered from. It was very likely a
413
00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:01.720
scintillating scatoma, a visual or associated with retinal migraines that
414
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.799
caused visual hallucinations and rogue flashes of light to appear
415
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:06.880
in the field of vision. If you wanted to know,
416
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:12.680
Lord Gerard Winstanley, the English Protestant reformer whose attacks on
417
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:16.680
the class system and private property during the English Civil
418
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:20.400
War presage marks and ingles by more than two hundred years,
419
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.480
and earned him a place of honor as one of
420
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:28.440
only nineteen European proto socialist forerunners listed on the Soviet
421
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:33.319
era Alexander Garden Obelisk. Now, of course, now, there is,
422
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.079
of course, no higher mystery behind any of these things.
423
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.839
It's not capital fate, Capital f fate or the Holy
424
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:43.000
Spirit came down and Bill endowed these individuals with unique
425
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:47.240
prescience or insights on these issues. It's just a quirk
426
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.279
of human existence and intelligent that people sometimes, I didn't
427
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:52.799
think in such a nuance in novel ways for their
428
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:55.599
own era, that they seem almost like time travelers or
429
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:59.680
wizards lost in time and space. Cyrus the Great's idea
430
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:05.119
of ideas of pluralism were situated in existing Persian, very
431
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:12.720
early Zoroastrian, and ancient Mesopotamian concepts of religious syncretism and toleration. Hildegarde, meanwhile,
432
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.799
lived during a fairly narrow, very rare window of time
433
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:19.599
Windy Church and Holy Roman Empire were accepting and even
434
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:24.519
celebrating outspoken female visionaries. She got to go on preaching
435
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:26.880
to hers for fuck state. Do you know how rare
436
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:30.960
that is in pre modern Europe. Poor wind Stanley, on
437
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.440
the on the other hand, was socially ostracized for his
438
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.200
views on redistribution of land and actions as a true leveler,
439
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:39.480
and spent the later years of his life working in
440
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:42.799
commerce as a chandler to get by and fighting legal
441
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.839
battles over money he believed he was owed. Even so,
442
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:50.000
they're seemingly out of place writings and ideas never failed
443
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.799
to inspire and enthrall us because they seem to conflict
444
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.440
to the course of history and the erow of time
445
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:59.680
as we understand it, and we celebrate them accordingly. However,
446
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.720
you sometimes come across the person who is seemingly unstuck
447
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:08.000
from time in monumental ways, but is also just a
448
00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:11.759
huge fucking piece of shit in such a way that
449
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:15.440
it's impossible to overlook. But then you also find out
450
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.519
that the persons, by being awful, was woefully mistreated by
451
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:23.599
contemporaries in life, severely and brutally punished for the wrong reasons,
452
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:29.559
and even had some really forward thinking, almost modern seeming
453
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.599
novel ideas. Thus she left with an extreme man out
454
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:36.960
of time scenario where he's problematic and awful, but also
455
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:41.960
highly influential and even sympathetic at times. Anyway, folks, all
456
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:43.519
of that is to say that it's time to talk
457
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:46.759
about the one the only front of me of the podcast,
458
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:53.440
Peter Abilard. So yeah, we talk. We referenced him many
459
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:55.880
times on the show, but I've never done an We've
460
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.359
never done an episode on him. So we're gonna have
461
00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:01.359
a little chat about mister Abilard in his land of
462
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:06.880
contrast style life. We'll do some introduction on him and
463
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:11.200
then talk about his very problematic relationship with Eloise and
464
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:14.400
why we shouldn't lose sight of that when discussing him.
465
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.720
Then we'll talk even more at the end about it
466
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:21.880
to dry the point home, because and this is terribly unfortunate.
467
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:24.640
Avalar was right about a lot of things and was
468
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:30.480
mistreated very badly by the clergy and papacy, and he
469
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:34.359
becomes something of a prescient and sympathetic figure. He's kind
470
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:36.920
of a lot like Galileo in some ways, because he's
471
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:40.480
also a pioneer, foundational figure and a number of fields
472
00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:43.440
of study. But be that as it may, he still sucks.
473
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:52.640
So here goes Ellen or we In ten seventy nine,
474
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:57.359
a young boy named Pierre was born somewhere outside of
475
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:04.440
nons in Britain. Any what do we know about about
476
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:09.640
about Lil Abalard, l I l apostrophe Little Ablard.
477
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:15.880
It's like the watchman Baby's up in this bitch Like. Basically,
478
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.480
what we know about him is from an early age
479
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:27.200
he very much had an aptitude for learning right, and
480
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:33.440
he not only that, was just like completely disinterested in
481
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:39.319
taking on the ordinary and assumed role that a young
482
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:39.960
man of.
483
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.759
Wealth would do, which is basically to get groomed to
484
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:46.880
take over from his father. He wanted that church life.
485
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:52.480
He was all about that, and he made that clear
486
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:54.720
from the get go. And to be fair to his parents,
487
00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:58.640
they were like, yeah, okay, sure, which it does take
488
00:30:58.920 --> 00:30:59.400
some doing.
489
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.000
And then his dad was also a night like a
490
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.519
night like a night like he was, but he made
491
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:11.160
sure that his son got a liberal arts education. So's
492
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.720
he's kind of his dad's kind of like, you know,
493
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:16.559
he breaks the normal nightly mold and he's like, yeah,
494
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:19.400
you're gonna you're gonna get an education and not get
495
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.200
hit on the fucking head all day like me.
496
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:24.839
Yeah, like he is his dad. He's got a woke
497
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:29.039
night dad. Yes, you know, he's like my kids, my
498
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:29.720
kids going.
499
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:32.599
To the university. Although actually by that I mean his
500
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:38.279
kid's going to instead the Cathedral School because the university
501
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:43.240
isn't invented yet. It gets invented and Ablard will teach there,
502
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:46.799
but he doesn't go there. He goes to eventually the
503
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:50.920
Cathedral School at Loan, which is quite a celebrated one.
504
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:55.720
And listen, he's a good student. He's a good student.
505
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:57.799
You can say anything you want about Ablard, but you
506
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:01.519
can't say he's fucking stupid. And everyone is like, whoa, Yeah,
507
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:05.319
this kid has got it right. So he is immediately
508
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:10.119
getting kind of passed into higher and higher achaloons as
509
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.319
a were of church stuff, because that's basically what you do, right,
510
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.720
you can kind of make your ways up, your way
511
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:19.640
up through the ranks of the church. But very particularly,
512
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:26.799
he isn't interested in like climbing the ladder and making
513
00:32:26.839 --> 00:32:29.319
his way up through the church. Like he doesn't want
514
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:31.440
to be a cardinal, he doesn't want to be a bishop.
515
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:36.400
He very very specifically wants to be a theologian. And
516
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:41.240
he's able to do that because it will then get
517
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:44.000
into the twelfth century Renaissance, which is so I mean,
518
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.039
this is very much like he is. He is a
519
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:50.640
man of his time right where it's like, okay, yeah,
520
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:51.119
what is it.
521
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:51.799
That you want to do.
522
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.920
I want to write theology, write philosophy. That is my
523
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:59.440
thing and the only thing that I wish to commit
524
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:02.279
my life to. Oh okay, well great, because it turns
525
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:06.160
out our society really values that very suddenly, right, like
526
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:10.240
incredibly suddenly society is about that life and so he
527
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:14.920
is able to do that. So, as I say, he
528
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:18.079
starts out at Loan, but then the University of Paris
529
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:24.319
starts up. And first we had, of course our good
530
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:27.640
friends down at Bologna start up, and Bologna first and
531
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.680
best because it's a bottom up organization. You know. That
532
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:34.640
was students starting a university, which is the best way
533
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:38.279
to do it. But Paris is the second one that
534
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:40.440
starts off because the church is like, oh, I see
535
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:41.680
these kids.
536
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:42.920
Are starting their own universities.
537
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:44.559
We better get in on this because who knows what
538
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:47.880
people are doing when we're not watching, essentially right, So
539
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:51.000
they're like, okay, we're going to get in on this business.
540
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.799
And they started up in Paris. What better place to
541
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:57.039
start it because it's the largest city in Europe after
542
00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.559
Contestinople obviously, and they.
543
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:03.640
Started in Constantinople. Am I right? All right?
544
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:10.159
So yeah, they're off. He goes to Paris. University is
545
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:14.079
slightly different. You know, I've told you all before about
546
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:17.000
the trivium and the quadrivium, the things that get studied
547
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:19.360
in the university, but also just kind of the thing
548
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:21.360
to keep in mind is it's like there's no such
549
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:27.920
thing as like a campus, right, You're not going to
550
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.119
the University of Paris and hanging out on campus all
551
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:32.000
day and like being like, oh.
552
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:34.639
Oh, butter good to class, Like that's that's not what happens.
553
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:35.920
Like a university.
554
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:36.679
You do.
555
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:37.320
You have to.
556
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:45.000
Pay to attend it, and those fees go quite literally
557
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:50.079
to like the keep for students and keep for the
558
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:51.320
people who are teaching.
559
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:53.079
But most of the buildings are like.
560
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.719
Church buildings, so it's just like whatever the church happens
561
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:57.840
to own, they'll be like, okay, that's a classroom now,
562
00:34:57.880 --> 00:34:59.400
and you kind of like go in and out of
563
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:03.239
these places and it is much more itinerant in character,
564
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:04.079
I think would be the.
565
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:08.119
Best way to do it. So you've got to do.
566
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:10.840
Grammar, logic and rhetoric, and so there's gonna be someone
567
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:12.880
who teaches you Latin. There's going to be somebody who
568
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.280
teaches you philosophy in particular, kind of like the Aristotelian
569
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:18.679
mode of philosophy.
570
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:21.440
And there's going to be someone who teaches you debate.
571
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:24.679
And then if you get past that then you can
572
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:25.840
go do all the math stuff.
573
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:31.159
Error Basically what Abalard's.
574
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:35.400
Deal is is that he will do you the logic.
575
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:39.599
He will absolutely do you like the teaching you how
576
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:43.440
to think, but he is in particular going to teach
577
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:44.199
you the rhetoric.
578
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:49.840
Like believe he's going to teach you how to argue, and.
579
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:54.159
Like he was a really look, I don't think he's
580
00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:57.280
the first one. He's certainly not the first one because
581
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:02.480
of all the Greeks, but like the the like medieval
582
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:08.280
hold over until William of Auckham comes there, like he's
583
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.119
like the guy he's he's the best at arguing. People
584
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.880
are literally like fuck, I will not argue against this guy.
585
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:19.800
He's too like they're calling and scared, like I'm afraid
586
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:22.440
that can come in today to talk this shit. And
587
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.679
later in his life he's gonna get really fucked over
588
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:27.519
by Bernard of Clairvaux doing.
589
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:31.320
Just that exactly, and and like so and the part
590
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:34.599
of what is the part of the issue here?
591
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:35.079
Right?
592
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:35.800
You know?
593
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.199
You got you got homeboy doing his thing and he's
594
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:43.360
really good at debating. But he'll be like, hey, kids,
595
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:46.039
you wanna you wanna see some debating and action, and
596
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:49.320
the kids are all hooting and hollering like oh oh yeah,
597
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:51.920
let's do it, ablord, and then he will be like,
598
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.920
You'll go up to his colleagues who are in the
599
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:58.320
middle of their lecture, and he'll be like, you namby,
600
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:01.280
son of a bitch. I bet you you'd say that's true,
601
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.440
but it's clearly not. And his students are just being
602
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:07.679
like oh in the background, and it's just like he's interrupting,
603
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.719
you know, and he basically he's just kind of like
604
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.719
trying to prove a point about how good he is
605
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.880
at debating, and it's like obviously very disruptive, and he
606
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.639
would fucking hate him. And you don't just hate him
607
00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:21.079
because he's acting like a prick. He's acting like a
608
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:22.719
prick and he's got your ass.
609
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:28.400
Yeah, he's he's arrogant. He knows it. He knows He
610
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:31.800
literally writes it, you know, like he knows it, and
611
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:33.960
he's going and he's not the kind of person that
612
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:37.000
that knows it, but is like self assured enough to
613
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:41.400
like just let it be there. He like knows it,
614
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:44.400
and he's going to like take you your face and
615
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.599
rub your nose in it, like like a like a
616
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:48.119
dog who pete or something.
617
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:48.280
You know.
618
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:50.679
He's like, you know, just like don't do it, you know?
619
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:56.840
Yeah, yeah, it's it's awful, Like he genuinely, genuinely.
620
00:37:58.079 --> 00:37:58.840
Is just like.
621
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.039
Being the worst yeah, at every possible time. It's like
622
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:07.800
quite like, come on, man, like do yourself some favors.
623
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:08.920
And he's like, absolutely not.
624
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.880
I will never I will never stop being a prick
625
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:18.840
for absolutely no reason. And unfortunately this also kind of
626
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:21.480
works for him, like he gets this huge reputation because like,
627
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.119
of course, you know, if you've got a bunch of
628
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:29.119
like college aged boys, they love this shit. They're like, dog,
629
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:33.000
I am on the cutting edge. Hell yeah. And I
630
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:36.920
think also it's kind of like there is this like
631
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:41.280
there's this very specific kind of like macho ness that
632
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:42.840
is coming out of it for a bunch of guys
633
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.079
who don't usually get to be macho.
634
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:47.039
If that makes sense, it does. I do have a
635
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.760
question because there are scattered references to also, and I
636
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.639
mean I wouldn't see why not, but like young women
637
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:59.039
being as we will see young women drawn to this,
638
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.000
or is there like do we have any understanding of
639
00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:05.840
like I mean, were they allowed to just like mix
640
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:09.280
with like the male students of his who would be
641
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.519
listening or do we not have any real idea about that.
642
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:17.239
Well, so you're technically not really allowed to be a student.
643
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:20.599
But then they'll be like these really confusing times when suddenly,
644
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:22.679
like a woman will show up and she's suddenly like
645
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.760
teaching at Salerno and you're like, well, how did she
646
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:27.199
get in? And they're like, I refuse to tell you,
647
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:29.679
and you're like, cool.
648
00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.960
Okay, yeah, thanks man, thanks. So she so she made
649
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:35.039
it this high and was respected enough to get this
650
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:38.599
job and keep it in what's in what's kind of
651
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:42.280
like a church institution. It's just like yeah, it's like,
652
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:43.880
are you gonna tell us anything about it? No?
653
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:44.760
Absolutely not.
654
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.599
No, no you're not You're not allowed to know anything
655
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:48.039
about that.
656
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:50.280
So that happens with this.
657
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:53.960
We do think that probably women are attending these things
658
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.360
because it's also like one of these things where it's
659
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:57.119
essentially open doors, Like if you can get into the
660
00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:58.920
church where they're doing all this, you can go ahead
661
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:02.599
and like listen, like they're not it's not enough like
662
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:05.800
a university now that they're going to stop you. I mean, well, hell,
663
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:07.880
universities actually used to let you just go sit in
664
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.400
lectures too, Like that's it used to be a cool
665
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.320
thing they would do when they were cool and uh
666
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:15.760
so it's just sort of like if you want to
667
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:17.320
go hear it, you can go hear it, right, And
668
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.639
it's like, yeah, like by all accounts, there's kind of
669
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:23.679
like philosophy hose, which I love, I mean, and also
670
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:26.159
I want to say brackets positive. Obviously this is a
671
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:32.039
pro ho podcast, So uh poppyar Pussy's girls, Yep, we'd
672
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:34.960
love to see it. Popular Pussy's for that theology guy.
673
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:40.880
Like you you I like art type girl. Yeah. Yeah,
674
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:44.559
it's just like, oh, explain the Trinity to me, daddy,
675
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:44.920
and just like.
676
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:50.199
And he's all live. He absolutely would love it.
677
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:54.400
And we can absolutely guarantee that happened. Oh I can.
678
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.000
I can tell you for uh reasons for at least
679
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.880
one person that is so yeah.
680
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:08.320
So Pete. So we'll talk about his contributions to philosophy
681
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:13.239
and more of his teaching and then his later life.
682
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:21.639
But let's talk about the unpleasantness he while he was
683
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:28.400
a teacher at Notre Dame or in Paris. I don't
684
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.360
know if he was specifically at Notre Dame, but he
685
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:34.000
was in Paris in about the year eleven fifteen or
686
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.599
eleven sixteen. He was thirty six or thirty seven, he
687
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.960
was preaching and a not woman, a girl named Eloise,
688
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:47.719
who was either fourteen or fifteen, depending on what year.
689
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.199
We'll get back to this, Yeah, putting down a chip, keep.
690
00:41:52.119 --> 00:42:05.440
On either way, yes, and they began He somehow engendered
691
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:10.119
himself with her uncle Fulbert because Eloise was staying in
692
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:15.519
Paris at Notre Dame as like I guess a ward
693
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:18.599
of her of her uncle Fulbert, who was a canon
694
00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:28.199
secular canon there and uh Abelard had apparently never shown
695
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:32.920
interest in women before this, Like there are several uh
696
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.440
books about him that say he really hadn't shown any
697
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:39.840
interest in women before this, uh, but he was immediately
698
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:44.639
interested in her, got into Fulbert's house or good graces somehow,
699
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:51.559
and then began an affair with her. Eleanor have I
700
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:54.679
missed any key points here?
701
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.840
So okay, all right, there are some keep because there
702
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:03.519
is some debate about how old Eloise is. So I
703
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:04.840
want to take I want to take a bo bent
704
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:06.639
to shout out Eloise because she's also like one of
705
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.519
the smartest to ever do it, like genuinely like one
706
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:12.679
of these people where you're like, where did you come from?
707
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:15.079
Like you know, I'm always like, oh, Yeah, like, you
708
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:18.199
can't really call any of these people feminists. She's the
709
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:23.800
closest to like a proto feminist her work that you
710
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:29.840
really come up to. She's so fucking smart, and so
711
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:33.320
we we know about her and she just kind of
712
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:35.599
like comes onto the scene. She's from a lower noble family,
713
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.039
just like him. She's a little bit lower on the
714
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:42.559
totem pole than he is, but she again, is very clever.
715
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.960
And so she's sent off to the nunnery at Argentule,
716
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:50.400
and we generally know her as Eloise of argentle and
717
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:53.719
she is so smart that she becomes famous.
718
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:59.000
Okay, so as a teenager, Yeah, she's famous. And so
719
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:01.800
this is one of the So there are schools of
720
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:05.559
thought that thinks she might be a bit older. So
721
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.000
she might be possibly.
722
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:11.400
Twenty or so, because it would be very like the
723
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:14.360
amount of work she had completed at this point in
724
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:19.360
time and her level of fame indicate that she just
725
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:23.440
might have been around for a bit longer. Now, when
726
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:25.840
I say this, I want to also be abundantly clear.
727
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:28.519
One of the things that I will go to my
728
00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:32.719
grave repeating over and over and over again is we
729
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:35.800
don't fuck our students. We don't fuck our students. We
730
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:38.239
don't fuck our students. I don't care if it's at university,
731
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.679
we don't fuck our students. We don't fuck our students.
732
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:41.880
Don't fuck your students.
733
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:43.079
It's not ethical.
734
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.840
There isn't a way to do it that I find acceptable.
735
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:47.760
It is always an abuse of power.
736
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:49.480
Don't fuck your students, right.
737
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:54.480
No matter the age range. It is a completely one
738
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:59.159
sided power dynamic for either it doesn't matter who the
739
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:02.719
old what gen the older person is, or whether it's
740
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:04.320
a gay or a straight relationship.
741
00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:05.480
I don't care.
742
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.079
It does not work, no way to square it.
743
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:11.760
Yeah, Like, I'm not gonna like it. I'm not gonna
744
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:15.079
like you don't fuck your students. If it's that important
745
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:17.599
that you fuck that student, you can wait till they're
746
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:19.480
no longer your student, and by that I mean no
747
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:24.039
longer at this institution. Yeah, right, Like fucking sort your
748
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:25.840
life out, what the fuck is wrong with you?
749
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:32.039
Et cetera, et cetera. Not acceptable. I don't care anyway. So, so,
750
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:35.280
like to be clear, I don't like it. I don't
751
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:36.519
like it now.
752
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:40.519
So basically he it's also really weird the way that
753
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:43.280
Ablerd writes about because he's like, yeah, up, to this point,
754
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:45.880
I didn't really give a shit about getting laid, but
755
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:47.920
then I thought, well, maybe I should give a shit
756
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:50.360
about it getting laid. And then I thought, well, if
757
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.079
I'm gonna get laid, guy like me, way I'm doing
758
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:55.840
my thing, you gotta do it with the best, and
759
00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:00.960
in my opinion, and in my opinion that best was
760
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:04.719
is Eloise. Right, And so it's kind of like, all right, well,
761
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:09.199
like what like I just have so many follow up questions, right,
762
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.760
because it's like, so you decided you wanted to become
763
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.719
a fuck boy. That like that was like step one,
764
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:21.679
decided to become fuck boy? Step two like get the
765
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:24.559
get into the house, right, or like what like It's
766
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:28.360
just it's not I don't think the timeline makes a
767
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:30.199
whole ton of sense on this. And it's also like
768
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:32.840
we're getting a lot of it from the Historia clamatotom
769
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:33.679
which is his.
770
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:39.000
His autobiography about what happens to.
771
00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:42.800
Him, right, And we'll we'll talk more about that also
772
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:46.199
because there there's a there's lots say, there's a lot
773
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:51.519
to say about that, but fundamentally, the fact of the
774
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:55.760
matter is he basically at this point in time. The
775
00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:58.800
reason Eloise is in Paris staying with her uncle is
776
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.320
she's just so shown so much promise. They want to
777
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:06.320
get her to be availing herself of the education that
778
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:08.280
is available in Paris as a result of all the
779
00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:14.960
activity around the university. So Fulbert is out there being like, hey,
780
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:20.119
what's up looking for a tutor for my niece. You
781
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:22.159
know who's like one of the smartest to ever do it,
782
00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:26.119
Eddie Takers, Eddie Takers, and a Blart is like, yeah,
783
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:35.480
I'll do it. And that's which is going to come
784
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:39.119
back to haunt Fulbert. So yeah, basically he's like, yeah, cool,
785
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:40.559
Like what I'm going to do is I'm just going
786
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:42.960
to put in with homie and then we are going
787
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:47.960
to see what we're going to see. And we end
788
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:51.079
up in this situation where Ablard and Elowiz are able
789
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:54.440
to spend a lot of time together behind closed doors
790
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:58.960
and they embark on a sexual relationship.
791
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.679
Now it is very.
792
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:07.519
Difficult for us to call that consensual because of just
793
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:14.800
like the gravity of the situation as a whole. And
794
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:19.559
you know, I don't like to necessarily you know, the
795
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:23.400
age gap discourse I don't think is necessarily fruitful.
796
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:24.000
About a lot of the time.
797
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.440
But like listen, it's still like a teacher relationship. And
798
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:28.599
also they know they shouldn't be doing it. Able art
799
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:31.480
has about celibacy, not that I take that seriously, but
800
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:32.639
like come on, dog.
801
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:35.719
Or they didn't even take it that seriously at the time.
802
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:37.800
This is when they were trying to change that.
803
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:41.000
Yeah, but it's like.
804
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:43.639
They know they're not supposed to be doing this because
805
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.559
like so in theory Aloise, you know, either she's going
806
00:48:46.599 --> 00:48:48.920
to be a nun she keeps it up with this
807
00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:50.480
whole learning thing, or.
808
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:54.119
She is going to be.
809
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.119
Like a wife, right, And if you are going to
810
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:02.039
be somebody's wife, then you need to not have sex
811
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:04.239
before marriage because it brings your bride price down.
812
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:05.039
Do I like that? No?
813
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.519
I don't like that. No, I don't fucking like that.
814
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:09.440
No, I don't like that way of relating to the world.
815
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:11.159
But like that is true, so it's gonna like fuck
816
00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:15.239
up her marriage prospects in general. But they're fucking all
817
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:19.519
kinds of which ways. They write about this in a
818
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:25.079
series of letters to each other later on, and they
819
00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:27.920
like one of the things that Abilard says, like actually
820
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:30.760
it might be in the Historia Calemy tottam is he's like, uh,
821
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:35.760
you know, our fingers off and strayed more often from
822
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:39.519
the parchment but to each other's laps, which is like
823
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.519
them highlighting the fact that like, oh.
824
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:46.559
Not the skin of the parchment, it's skin. No, get
825
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:48.760
out of my face with this, So that's itchy.
826
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:52.239
So so they're fucking every which way, but they know
827
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.119
they shouldn't be fucking, so like they'll do stuff like
828
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.719
Abilard will intentionally hit her in front of other people
829
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:04.280
because like that's good pedagogy, yeah, question mark.
830
00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:05.280
At the time, at the.
831
00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:08.199
Time, they're like they're like, oh hell yeah, that's oh wow.
832
00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:10.239
They're really learning in there. He's beating the ship out
833
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:13.760
of her, right, But do they also write about it
834
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:18.440
like later on after the fact and she's all like, yes, Daddy,
835
00:50:18.519 --> 00:50:20.400
spank me, you know, like.
836
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:22.760
Damn it.
837
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.079
I do think we I do think we should be
838
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:30.440
clear that at no point is Eloise ever like I
839
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:30.960
was not.
840
00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:32.719
Down.
841
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:37.800
That does not make any of it, okay, now does not.
842
00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:41.360
It does not absolve anyone of anything. No, it is
843
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:45.000
just an aspect of it that you should know because
844
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:49.440
their relationship is easily the most famous thing about either
845
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:54.239
of them, and also it is going to kind of
846
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:57.800
come back when we talk about his contributions to to
847
00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:00.280
ethics and the scent.
848
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:05.199
Oddly enough, yeah, yeah, and like so this is an
849
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:08.079
interesting thing, Like she's kind of into it.
850
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.239
They're fucking a lot.
851
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:13.480
I mean, they do say at like at a point
852
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.480
in time though there is there is apparently some reference
853
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:18.239
and it's like interesting that she wanted this on record.
854
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:20.519
The one time things get out of hand and she
855
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:22.119
doesn't like it is he wants to fuck her in
856
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:23.639
a church and she's like, no, I don't want to
857
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:25.239
fuck in the church, and he's like, yeah, too bad
858
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:27.920
for you. We're fucking in this church now, which you
859
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:29.400
know I would classify as rape.
860
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:35.320
I didn't know about that when yeah, sure you didn't. No, no,
861
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:38.559
I'm to didn't. I didn't know that.
862
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:40.320
It's very Joan in.
863
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.800
Her fiance in the office in mad Ben. If you're
864
00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:47.199
a mad Ben such as myself, it's like that.
865
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:48.719
It's like that, you know.
866
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:55.679
But anyway, they continue on this path and despite being
867
00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:59.760
two of the smartest people living in Europe at this
868
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:03.039
point in time, their affair is discovered because.
869
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:08.400
She gets knocked up because because like they couldn't figure
870
00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:09.599
out any other way to do it.
871
00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:12.480
I guess and you're just like Jesus Christ, people like
872
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:14.960
you justn't just don't. Jis in there and Abelard's like
873
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:20.400
absolutely not. I'm just right up in there. It's like, okay, cool, cool,
874
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:25.400
great job. But who could have foreseen what happened. So
875
00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:29.519
you know, basically they're gonna they're gonna have a crossbow
876
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:34.639
wedding about it, right, like, like that's just so Fulbert
877
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.639
is like, you've besmirched my niece's honor. You're gonna make
878
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:42.639
an honest woman out of her, and able Art is like, yeah, sure,
879
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:44.400
I will go okay.
880
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:52.320
And this I now who objects in this in this scenario, Eloise.
881
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.880
And she's like, I'm not marrying this motherfucker, and which
882
00:52:55.960 --> 00:52:59.000
is really interesting because she's like, I have no interest
883
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:01.480
in that. I have no interesting that at all whatsoever.
884
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:04.840
I don't want to be a wife. I want to
885
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:09.480
do weird intellectual things. If Abilard and I get married,
886
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:13.840
he can't be a teacher anymore, he can't be at
887
00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:17.719
the university. So I absolutely fucking refuse to marry this guy.
888
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:22.519
And so it's like one of these things where this
889
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:23.400
goes on and on and.
890
00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:27.679
On and on, and eventually Abilard.
891
00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:29.000
Like wears her down and is like, babe, come on,
892
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:31.760
like we do sort of need to get married. But
893
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:34.400
I also find it really interesting because like very clearly
894
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:38.519
for Eloise, who again is like someone who spends all
895
00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:41.400
of her time thinking about theology. That's her deal, right,
896
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:44.519
She's like, I don't think this is a problem, and
897
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:46.000
I don't think I will go to Hell for this,
898
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:47.679
and I don't think that any of this is going
899
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:48.480
to be an issue for me.
900
00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:51.400
Actually, I think it's cool. I think that we can
901
00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:53.960
keep doing this and like working in the church question
902
00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:54.599
mark and it's just.
903
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:59.920
Like, which is an insanely modern like that's like, yeah, yeah,
904
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:03.760
that's bordering on like actual postmodern thought because you have
905
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:07.840
you've abstracted your relationship to the church to the point
906
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:12.039
that you can like you can separate these things out,
907
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.320
and that's something that doesn't happen for most people in
908
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:21.679
the world until like after the French Revolution sometimes.
909
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:23.199
Right, And she can do it.
910
00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:24.920
She can do it, and she's like, N'm like and
911
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:27.440
she's like, none of this is a problem actually, like
912
00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:28.960
you guys are the ones being weird.
913
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:36.119
But like Abilard does end up marrying her in secret, like.
914
00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:39.880
She's like, Okay, I'll do it, but I'm only going
915
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:41.840
to do it if it's in secret, because I want
916
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:45.840
you to be able to like keep working. And he's like, yeah, okay,
917
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:48.119
sure a girl whatever, And they get married in secret
918
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.679
and she goes back to Brittany to.
919
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:55.559
Go have Astraley Babillard friend of the show.
920
00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:01.519
And basically Ablard I was back to Paris like nothing
921
00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:04.239
to see here. I'm sure this isn't going to be
922
00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:10.440
a problem. Fulbert is absolutely fucking enraged by all of this,
923
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:14.800
and he's like, you motherfucker, like you have completely ruined
924
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:20.679
my niece's chances for anything, right, and like I am
925
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:23.760
going you shall rue the day.
926
00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:25.039
You're gonna rue the day.
927
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:26.880
And I was like yeah.
928
00:55:27.079 --> 00:55:30.119
Ablard's like I'd like to see you try.
929
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:36.559
And Filbert was like all right, yeah. Yeah. Then in
930
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:45.840
sometime around eleven twenty, Fulbert and a group of a
931
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:49.599
group of assailants of I actually don't think they were hired.
932
00:55:49.639 --> 00:55:52.079
I think they were probably just people who hated Aboard.
933
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:53.679
Yeah, I mean it's just like, yeah, there are a
934
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:54.559
lot of volunteers.
935
00:55:54.760 --> 00:55:58.320
Actually, yeah, it was a group. There's a there's a
936
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:03.880
famous image of it, like that someone is drawn and
937
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.159
it's like able are trying to escape out of a
938
00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:08.880
bed and like six people are holding him. You can't
939
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:11.320
see anything, but like it's like six people holding him down.
940
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:15.400
Uh, I going for that.
941
00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:23.679
They castrated him, they that gone, but power, Yeah, I
942
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:31.639
I would look, I'm all for uh getting rid of
943
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:35.480
people we need to get rid of. Just kill him,
944
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.320
Like if you like, don't torture a person, just kill him.
945
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:43.239
There's torturing a person like this is fucking Like I oh,
946
00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:46.760
it's like that's the thing. Like if if you want
947
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:50.000
to kill him because he fucked that, you're fifteen fourteen,
948
00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:55.320
fifteen year old niece, Fine, I get it, fine, but
949
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:57.840
oh god, any.
950
00:56:57.800 --> 00:56:59.719
Also, I just also really feel like it's not even
951
00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:01.360
about Eloise at this point.
952
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:04.719
It's about him, right, It's like this entire thing is
953
00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:06.360
just a dick waggling contest.
954
00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:10.320
And Fulbert lost his prize pig so to speak, Yeah,
955
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:12.119
the one he was going to sell at the county
956
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:14.679
fair for yeah, like yeah, and like.
957
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:19.719
So eventually Fulbert finds out that they were married, and
958
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:22.320
then he's like and also they're married, so he can't
959
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:27.559
work at the university anymore, and everyone's like no. Abler
960
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:30.719
claims that everyone was so upset about his junk getting
961
00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:32.960
cut off that there is like wailing and crying and
962
00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:35.760
gnashing of teeth in the streets of Paris about his junk,
963
00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:39.079
which I do, which I would say I find him
964
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:44.719
to be an unreliable narrator in this aspect. How dare you, like,
965
00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:47.280
I mean, I'm sure that they were like, oh dog,
966
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:50.559
that's rough, Like that's that.
967
00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:55.280
Is believable to me. But I don't think that like
968
00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:59.079
anyone is crying over his junk except for Aloise. I
969
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:01.320
believe she was crying. Oh yeah, no, she was sure
970
00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:04.239
she was, she was absolutely rent, she was.
971
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:09.239
She seems bereft after this, like after this happens, and
972
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:13.679
she and like Abilard I mean spoiler, Albalard tries to
973
00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:16.920
go into hiding and and hates it because he wants
974
00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:20.400
to still teach, but like he doesn't. He's he's he's
975
00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:23.199
too shame like he I mean, and I don't don't,
976
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:25.159
don't get me wrong, like I get that, like he's
977
00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:27.719
just like, I you know, like how can I do this?
978
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.360
Because as Eleanor said, there is this like big dicking
979
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:33.880
thing about this, and I mean, like everybody knows and
980
00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:37.000
even if they love you and are entirely sympathetic to you.
981
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:42.280
There is something to everyone knowing that your genitals have
982
00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:46.559
been mutial cut off related whatever whatever it is, and
983
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:50.440
it and like and it emaciated him. And but he
984
00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:56.960
passed the time by constantly wheedling and annoying.
985
00:58:56.639 --> 00:59:01.840
The monks, and he enjoined sam Dene Right, it's so
986
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:02.880
this is really funny.
987
00:59:03.039 --> 00:59:06.159
It's so good because he joined Sandni, like one of
988
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:11.199
the richest and most famous monasteries. Because it's like, what's
989
00:59:11.239 --> 00:59:13.000
he gonna do now, Like, I mean, this man can't
990
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:14.960
work for a living or whatever, so he's basically got
991
00:59:15.079 --> 00:59:18.400
to join the church. So he joined Sandy. And the
992
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:21.480
awesome thing that he decides to do at Sandy is
993
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:24.159
he spends the whole time going, guys, I don't think
994
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:25.400
Sandeny is actually real.
995
00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:27.280
No, he's not a real person.
996
00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:29.639
That's not a real person, like I mean historically, like
997
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:31.599
check it out. I don't even think this is real.
998
00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:35.199
And they're all like, what is your fucking problem. It's
999
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:36.880
so good, it's so funny.
1000
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:40.119
I'm sorry, it's so fucking funny to join a monastery
1001
00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:42.440
and then be like, nah, absolutely not.
1002
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:44.440
I don't even believe this guy no way.
1003
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:46.800
It's like, oh yeah, the guy, the guy who I
1004
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:50.920
can't stress enough, is like so integral to like the
1005
00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:54.800
French idea of Christianity that it's like the oil that
1006
00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:01.519
is used to consecrate the is like like that is
1007
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:05.320
absolutely central to their way of thinking about things. And
1008
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:08.800
he's like, not, no, it's not real, bra, That's that's fake.
1009
01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:13.639
That's fake. And he's like and he's right, but but
1010
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:15.519
it's like, but he's being a dick.
1011
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:20.239
He's right, he won't he won't leave them. He just
1012
01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:26.400
he he keeps doing this and he's so like he's
1013
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:31.239
just so like annoying about it, and he is, he's
1014
01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:35.599
he's petty. And and actually we'll talk about in a second,
1015
01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:39.480
actually his this out this does come up in his
1016
01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:47.000
first charge of heresy. But first, uh we we we
1017
01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:49.559
We've talked a lot about Avalard and his and his
1018
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:58.480
own ego and and his uh crimes. Uh I. Now
1019
01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:00.960
we get to the thing where we have to talk
1020
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:08.039
about his contributions to society, which are numerous. Now some
1021
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:10.599
of these I am qualified to go into. But one
1022
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:16.880
thing I'm not is philosophy eleanor what is conceptualism and
1023
01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:20.679
what is his contribution.
1024
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:24.800
Yeah, so he's really one of the big instigators of
1025
01:01:26.119 --> 01:01:27.760
it as a study of philosophy.
1026
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:31.440
So basically what it is is he's interested in the
1027
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:32.440
thingness of a thing.
1028
01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:36.760
So like, the question is sort of like it, does
1029
01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:41.679
white exist or is white something that we are perceiving
1030
01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:42.840
and relating to?
1031
01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:43.199
Like?
1032
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:46.559
And can white as a concept exist in and of
1033
01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:50.480
itself or does it require the relationship of a viewer?
1034
01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:54.280
And if there is a requirement of the relationship of
1035
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:55.599
a viewer, does it doesn't count?
1036
01:01:56.519 --> 01:01:56.719
Yeah?
1037
01:01:57.400 --> 01:02:00.599
Basically that's it in a nutshell. It's obviously more.
1038
01:02:02.199 --> 01:02:04.480
It's more complex than that, as I as I'm so
1039
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:08.559
fond of saying, But yeah, it's trying to get to
1040
01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:12.360
the bottom of whether whether or not there's a thingness
1041
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:14.800
to a thing, if things really exist, or if it's.
1042
01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:23.920
Just like us, is is it perception? Like would it
1043
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:32.480
like without without human beings, without living things, would white exist? Yeah?
1044
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:36.119
I mean, like I think now I think we now
1045
01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:40.639
pretty clearly understand that it wouldn't be called that, but
1046
01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:45.719
that that that that part of light that you see
1047
01:02:46.519 --> 01:02:49.760
does exist independent of us.
1048
01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:55.119
And it is perhaps true that differing species or things.
1049
01:02:55.039 --> 01:02:58.599
Would perceive it differently, But there would stutly something right,
1050
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:01.639
and but it's the old kind of like if a
1051
01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:04.599
tree falls in the forest and no one's there, doesn't
1052
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:06.639
make a sound kind of thing like that. That's basically
1053
01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:09.920
the thing is, like, what is the relationship of humans
1054
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:11.280
to the world around us?
1055
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:16.639
Which is interesting? So it is fundamentally.
1056
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:20.800
Like an interesting kind of thing to do, right, So
1057
01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:25.920
that's his first big contribution. When he gets to San Denis,
1058
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:31.960
he also makes he puts together a really great piece
1059
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:35.159
of work which I actually recommend if you are interested
1060
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.480
in kind of like a coming to grips really quickly.
1061
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:42.679
With medieval philosophy, and of course you are because you're.
1062
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:45.039
A little hip and cool, but if you want to
1063
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:47.960
like kind of get your head around very quickly a
1064
01:03:48.039 --> 01:03:51.639
medieval philosophy, or indeed kind of like late antique philosophy,
1065
01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:55.679
he writes this, this compendium essentially called sic at non
1066
01:03:56.800 --> 01:03:58.559
and a sick at non, which also means kind of
1067
01:03:58.559 --> 01:03:59.000
like yes and.
1068
01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:04.800
No, which is in itself a joke about like the project.
1069
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:06.199
Is.
1070
01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:11.000
It is about like basically saying, here are all the
1071
01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:14.440
kind of like logic, the ways that varying philosophers have
1072
01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:18.199
argued logic and reasoning over the years, like here's how
1073
01:04:18.199 --> 01:04:20.039
Aristota would do it, Here's how Plato would do it,
1074
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:22.679
Here's how Jerome would do it. Here is how you know,
1075
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:27.360
basically all of the heavy hitters of philosophy up to
1076
01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:31.880
now have related to logic, and it comes it's got
1077
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:35.840
like a very great way, very great message at the beginning,
1078
01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:37.960
which is like, yeah, it's all kind of relative. You know,
1079
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:40.480
lots of people relate to things in lots of different ways.
1080
01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:45.039
We do come to different ideas independently of each other
1081
01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:47.719
or in different ways. So you know, that's why the
1082
01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:50.880
study of philosophy is fruitful essentially, right, It's like, oh yeah,
1083
01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:54.679
good stuff, really good things to consider. And if you
1084
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:58.119
really want to like get a crash course, sick at
1085
01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:02.039
non will really really do that for you. So I do,
1086
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:04.400
I do recommend that if that's something that you're kind
1087
01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:06.119
of interested in checking out.
1088
01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:12.000
So that's really good. And then though he gets kicked
1089
01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:14.440
out of Sandy, Yeah.
1090
01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.960
He gets he's he's kicked out of of sandany for
1091
01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:25.719
for annoying them too much, sp for for like holding
1092
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:29.159
his finger like a quarter inch from their their eye
1093
01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:34.119
and being like I'm not testing. Yeah, he got kicked
1094
01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:41.880
out and then like he kind of gets so he
1095
01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:46.960
gets accused. Uh, well, actually, I guess we should talk
1096
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:51.000
about uh, the other thing, so real quick. A couple
1097
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:55.920
of other things that he that he was doing within
1098
01:05:56.079 --> 01:06:01.800
the field of ethics. He develops a theory that involuntary
1099
01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:08.239
physical reaction does not equal consent within people. And this
1100
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:12.480
is of course within with regard to like how you
1101
01:06:12.719 --> 01:06:17.360
view like Christian ethics, like like did you commit a
1102
01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:20.360
sin if you are put into a situation where like
1103
01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:23.599
a woman like shows you her tits and you can't
1104
01:06:23.719 --> 01:06:23.920
you know.
1105
01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:25.679
You're you're yeah, you can't look away.
1106
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:29.599
Yeah, And his example literally is like a man wakes
1107
01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:33.719
up tied to a bed between two naked women, and
1108
01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:38.400
of course he gets an erection from this. But Ablard's
1109
01:06:38.480 --> 01:06:41.679
argument is that the man has not sinned because the
1110
01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:49.440
reaction is subconscious, physical, and involuntary. And so that is
1111
01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:57.599
at this point in time, that is a four five
1112
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:01.360
centuries away from people at least in at least in
1113
01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:04.679
Western thought, from people picking that up. I can't say everywhere,
1114
01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:07.480
but like that is, yeah.
1115
01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:11.800
We'll see, we'll see some interest in in this, like
1116
01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:12.199
later on.
1117
01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:14.199
This will go on to be influential and you'll see
1118
01:07:14.239 --> 01:07:15.960
kind of stuff like this in a quitas when they're
1119
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.599
talking very particularly about wet dreams. Yes, so it gets
1120
01:07:20.679 --> 01:07:22.559
like picked up by clever people who are like yeah,
1121
01:07:22.639 --> 01:07:24.639
like it's it. And eventually they're like, yeah, it's not
1122
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:26.360
your fault if you have a wet dream, Like you're
1123
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:30.320
not a bad monk if you know, because you can't
1124
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:34.239
control your dreams. So it's like it will become like
1125
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:37.159
a very influential school, like a kind of.
1126
01:07:37.119 --> 01:07:44.199
School of thought. He then also gets really into Trinitarian theory, and.
1127
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:45.920
This is going to get him in a lot of trouble.
1128
01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:46.400
Yeah.
1129
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:48.880
Yeah, The only thing I wanted to say real quick.
1130
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:51.519
He does this thing called the dialogus. It's like a
1131
01:07:51.599 --> 01:07:57.039
dialogue between Christian, a Christian and a Jew. And I'm
1132
01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:59.519
not I want to see how to say this appropriately.
1133
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:05.360
I'm not saying that his argument is not still anti
1134
01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:11.199
Semitic in the typical medieval sense. However, he is one
1135
01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:14.079
of the first people, if not the first person, to
1136
01:08:14.679 --> 01:08:20.920
argue that the Jews should not be uniquely blamed for
1137
01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:26.800
the crucifixion of Christ. And he and he does say
1138
01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:29.640
that the Roman state was it, what were the ones
1139
01:08:29.680 --> 01:08:33.960
who did it? And that is that's a really big deal.
1140
01:08:34.199 --> 01:08:38.680
Dante is. Dante is and the Italian Humanists are going
1141
01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:41.720
to be like really having issues with this and like
1142
01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:46.840
two hundred odd years like aw yeah no, no, no way,
1143
01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:50.399
yeah no they they actually it was actually the Jews fault,
1144
01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:56.279
and like Abalard doing this is really really early because
1145
01:08:57.399 --> 01:08:59.760
the Jews being at fault for Christ's death is something
1146
01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:03.720
that is like that was an underpinning of Christianity, of
1147
01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:07.199
all forms of Christianity that I know of until very recently.
1148
01:09:07.640 --> 01:09:11.720
Yeah, well it's like absolutely integral, especially like to kind
1149
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:13.960
of like the project of the concept of the Holy
1150
01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:16.239
Roman Empire. Like you can't go around talking shit about
1151
01:09:16.239 --> 01:09:19.439
the Roman Empire. So it's gotta be Jewish people's fault,
1152
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:19.720
you know.
1153
01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:24.039
Yep, gotta be exactly. Yeah. And before we get to
1154
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:29.560
his excommunication or not not excommunication yet, but his first
1155
01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:32.720
charge of Pharisee also wanted to say that this guy,
1156
01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:38.279
this fucking asshole, this fucking creep, is the guy who
1157
01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:43.159
is like, hey, wait a minute, why do innocent babies
1158
01:09:43.199 --> 01:09:46.800
who die without being baptized go to Hell? And everyone's like,
1159
01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:49.399
I don't know, they just didn't get baptized and He's like,
1160
01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:53.560
but they didn't do anything wrong. We all admit they
1161
01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:56.600
don't have the capacity for free thought. They're just for
1162
01:09:56.720 --> 01:09:59.279
little reaction machines at that point, which is true, that
1163
01:09:59.399 --> 01:10:02.119
that's what they are are. They're hungry or tired or whatever,
1164
01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:04.880
and they're gonna let you know about it. And he
1165
01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:09.520
is saying, no, it's not. They don't go somewhere and
1166
01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:12.319
get punished like if any if anything, they just go
1167
01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:16.760
to a place where like they just sadly can't They
1168
01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:19.439
can see like the glory of heaven maybe above them,
1169
01:10:19.479 --> 01:10:21.159
but they can't get to it. But that's it. They
1170
01:10:21.199 --> 01:10:25.199
aren't being poked and prodded. And this was like fucking
1171
01:10:26.600 --> 01:10:34.000
revolutionary to like church people because Augustine, Saint Augustine of
1172
01:10:34.039 --> 01:10:35.479
Hippos like, no, they're getting punished.
1173
01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:39.159
In Augustine of Hippo in particular is like, yeah, God
1174
01:10:39.279 --> 01:10:39.880
hates them.
1175
01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:41.760
What the fuck is wrong with you?
1176
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:43.239
Like so much wrong?
1177
01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:46.920
Do you know how many babies were unbapped? It doesn't matter,
1178
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:51.039
like yeah, anyway, Eleanor, as Eleanor was saying, he gets
1179
01:10:51.079 --> 01:10:57.880
into trinitarianism, and he also sees God as a being
1180
01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:00.319
of love and not total fear, which is which is
1181
01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:02.960
a big new thing for him. But anyway, he what's
1182
01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:07.199
his what's his trinitarian and what is being charged with?
1183
01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:11.439
Sabellius Mean, yeah, okay, so this is.
1184
01:11:13.239 --> 01:11:17.199
This is like an annoying thing because it's difficult to
1185
01:11:17.359 --> 01:11:26.359
get it's difficult to get a like a particular beat
1186
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:31.520
on what is happening because obviously, like he is like,
1187
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:36.279
I never did or said anything that was heretical, and
1188
01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:38.520
the church is like, yeah, shut up, you fucking did.
1189
01:11:38.680 --> 01:11:42.439
And then also everything got burnt, so it's difficult for
1190
01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:50.119
us to tell. But essentially the accusation is that he's teaching,
1191
01:11:50.720 --> 01:11:56.000
particularly that there is a differentiation between God the Son
1192
01:11:56.119 --> 01:12:01.199
and God the Holy Spirit, particularly like on this one point, right,
1193
01:12:02.600 --> 01:12:07.399
who charges him with this, say Bernard of Clervaux, enemy
1194
01:12:07.479 --> 01:12:08.159
of the podcast.
1195
01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:11.680
No, I thought this one was the pupils of Anselm
1196
01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:14.479
of Leone about Bernard's the second one.
1197
01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:17.279
Oh yeah, you're right here. It's like, so this is
1198
01:12:17.359 --> 01:12:18.880
kind of where it starts, right.
1199
01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:22.319
This, this this charge of parise gets tossed out, but yeah, yeah.
1200
01:12:22.239 --> 01:12:24.640
Yeah, sorry, this is the sabellious one. Sorry, I'm like
1201
01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:25.399
your girl.
1202
01:12:25.960 --> 01:12:28.279
Your girl has been in the Netherlands for a week
1203
01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:33.119
and uh and it shows and so yeah, so and
1204
01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:37.840
this one they're like, yeah, no, like basically he gets
1205
01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:39.039
in there and it's just like, shut.
1206
01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:41.000
The fuck up, the little bitches. That's not what I said.
1207
01:12:42.039 --> 01:12:44.720
Yeah, he gets he gets condemned, he is forced to
1208
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:51.079
burn the theologia himself. But uh, the whole time, the
1209
01:12:51.119 --> 01:12:57.119
whole time, his sentence of perpetual confinement is either agreed
1210
01:12:57.680 --> 01:13:00.199
in advance that they're not going to do it, or
1211
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.039
he escapes the day it happens and no one cared,
1212
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:08.079
which seems unlikely given how many people he's pissed off.
1213
01:13:08.279 --> 01:13:11.560
So it seems like it was agreed earlier. You know, hey,
1214
01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:14.920
don't uh, don't do uh, don't do that.
1215
01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:18.239
Yeah, and so like probably I think that, like with
1216
01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:21.760
the whole perpetual conflinement thing, they're like, basically, you've got
1217
01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:23.760
to stop teaching. I think that that's kind of what
1218
01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:26.039
they mean, is like you've got to like stop being
1219
01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:29.800
out in the fucking world doing this because everybody hates
1220
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:33.600
you and uh, you're causing a lot of goddamn problems
1221
01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:34.680
for us.
1222
01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:38.880
All. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, and uh but does he
1223
01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:43.319
stop teaching? No? No, Oh, this man has this man
1224
01:13:43.479 --> 01:13:51.039
has lecturing and smacking students in his blood. He keeps
1225
01:13:51.159 --> 01:13:55.880
finding new places to uh to teach. Uh. He teaches
1226
01:13:56.800 --> 01:14:02.479
uh John of Salisbury, uh, who is an English author
1227
01:14:02.520 --> 01:14:05.680
and philosopher who's gonna come up and be a big
1228
01:14:05.720 --> 01:14:10.239
supporter of his later on and help clear his name,
1229
01:14:10.319 --> 01:14:13.600
along with Eloise and Peter of Clooney. But yeah, we'll
1230
01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:17.319
get there in a sec. But yeah, he's teaching. And
1231
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:23.399
I find it very hard to believe that. No, that
1232
01:14:24.640 --> 01:14:27.840
like the higher ups wouldn't have known that he was teaching,
1233
01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:32.560
because he remained insanely popular, like students would flock to
1234
01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:35.680
wherever he was. And he started this thing called the
1235
01:14:35.800 --> 01:14:40.199
Peraclet with Eloise because they still had a relationship after this,
1236
01:14:40.399 --> 01:14:45.079
because they still clearly loved each other to what every degree.
1237
01:14:45.760 --> 01:14:47.920
And there's also this just really weird bit in here.
1238
01:14:47.960 --> 01:14:50.039
So it's like he's out at the Paraclet. It's like,
1239
01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:53.399
you know, he's drawing all his attention. All these students
1240
01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:57.920
are coming in order to work with him, and then
1241
01:14:58.359 --> 01:15:01.720
like weirdly, the church is like, bro, you got to
1242
01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:04.600
come help us out. We've got like this order of
1243
01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:11.399
monks that needs straightening out. Back in Brittany, and they're like, hey,
1244
01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:14.520
come back to Brittany and like, you know, like reform
1245
01:15:14.680 --> 01:15:17.640
this monastery, question Mark, And I don't know, see, I
1246
01:15:17.720 --> 01:15:20.800
have no idea what the fuck was going on here
1247
01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:21.439
because it's.
1248
01:15:21.399 --> 01:15:24.880
Like abilide, you want Abelard to.
1249
01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:27.880
Reform the monastery, Like they're like yeah, like the guy
1250
01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:31.319
you just accused of heresy, Yeah, and you want him
1251
01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:34.359
to go over there and you want him to straighten
1252
01:15:34.439 --> 01:15:35.119
these monks out.
1253
01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:39.720
Yeah, that's why these things that we're talking about are
1254
01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:42.600
why it makes it like not only is it like
1255
01:15:43.079 --> 01:15:47.279
he is sympathetic, but it's also like it seems like
1256
01:15:47.439 --> 01:15:50.319
it seems very clear that like who somebody was playing
1257
01:15:50.319 --> 01:15:52.840
around with the narrative after the fact, because there's no
1258
01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:56.439
way that from like eleven thirty five or so to
1259
01:15:56.840 --> 01:16:00.600
eleven forty he was teaching, and he was teaching, and
1260
01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:03.880
John of Salisbury was writing about his teaching and talking
1261
01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:07.680
about it across across France and England and Bernard of
1262
01:16:07.720 --> 01:16:12.520
Clairvaux and the Pope didn't hear about it, so like,
1263
01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:15.439
so like, what the fuck is going on in a
1264
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:18.319
lot somebody, somebody's playing around with the narrative here, and
1265
01:16:18.640 --> 01:16:21.479
it's really hard to tell who it is it's clearly
1266
01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:24.079
not avalard because he's about to get got but.
1267
01:16:24.399 --> 01:16:27.520
Yeah, yeah and so like so off he pops like
1268
01:16:27.680 --> 01:16:28.199
or whatever.
1269
01:16:28.640 --> 01:16:32.439
Yeah, and like he claims the monks try to kill him,
1270
01:16:34.159 --> 01:16:37.079
Yeah yeah, which maybe they fucking did, and like, I mean,
1271
01:16:37.119 --> 01:16:40.159
who could blame them if that that is indeed the case.
1272
01:16:40.239 --> 01:16:42.119
I think he says they try to poison he has
1273
01:16:42.279 --> 01:16:47.520
very get his ass whooped. Yeah, like he no, they
1274
01:16:47.560 --> 01:16:50.840
beat him the fuck down. Yeah, they're like, don't you
1275
01:16:50.880 --> 01:16:52.439
come in here and tell us oar saying isn't real
1276
01:16:52.520 --> 01:16:52.800
or whatever?
1277
01:16:52.840 --> 01:16:53.079
The fuck?
1278
01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:54.880
I mean, I don't know what the problem was, but
1279
01:16:55.239 --> 01:16:57.840
the whole thing is just like off. So he goes
1280
01:16:57.960 --> 01:16:59.279
back to the fucking paraclet.
1281
01:17:00.079 --> 01:17:00.479
Hm hmm.
1282
01:17:00.680 --> 01:17:02.640
He's like that, that's what's up, Like we're back and
1283
01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:05.279
that also just FYI for those not in the know,
1284
01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:07.119
Perlet means holy spirit.
1285
01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:11.600
And the peraclet is like a it's at a monastery
1286
01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:14.520
that he's that was abandoned or something, and.
1287
01:17:14.600 --> 01:17:16.640
He's just literally out of the wilderness.
1288
01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:20.520
It's like he becomes a he becomes a hermit, but
1289
01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:23.760
like it doesn't last very long because he really does,
1290
01:17:23.960 --> 01:17:27.039
like have an inclination to teach and to be around people. Now,
1291
01:17:27.079 --> 01:17:31.000
whether that's purely for adulation, I can't say, but you know,
1292
01:17:31.239 --> 01:17:35.199
like yeah, he just this is all it's all very
1293
01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:42.520
weird until eleven forty, from like from the time of
1294
01:17:42.680 --> 01:17:49.920
his first trial uh to uh to eleven forty he
1295
01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:55.319
is bouncing around from places he's of course been uh castrated,
1296
01:17:55.359 --> 01:17:57.720
and he's he's bouncing around to these different things. He
1297
01:17:57.760 --> 01:18:01.359
goes to the paraclet, he starts ats is there and
1298
01:18:01.880 --> 01:18:07.840
for and they formed some kind of uh uh female
1299
01:18:07.920 --> 01:18:13.199
clerical order that he gives the rules for, which is really.
1300
01:18:13.479 --> 01:18:16.960
Weird body like, and this is so this is like
1301
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:21.960
a weird thing too, because like she'd gone back to Augentlee,
1302
01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:25.039
the monastery that she'd been at and that but like
1303
01:18:25.199 --> 01:18:29.920
it was owned by the abbot of sand Ni and
1304
01:18:30.039 --> 01:18:32.760
he decides to kick all the monks the nuns out
1305
01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:34.960
because he like wants the land or whatever.
1306
01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:38.880
And so Blard's like, well, why don't you come stay
1307
01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:39.680
with me, girl?
1308
01:18:40.279 --> 01:18:42.239
And then she like moves the monks there, and it's
1309
01:18:42.319 --> 01:18:46.159
like what is again, Like what the fuck is happening?
1310
01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:48.920
Right like, because it just seems it seems weird.
1311
01:18:49.399 --> 01:18:52.560
Would somebody have put a stop to that, Like it
1312
01:18:52.720 --> 01:18:53.720
and that's.
1313
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:56.640
All incredibly strange, right, Like it's just all weird.
1314
01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:59.520
But the part exists for at least five years, if
1315
01:18:59.560 --> 01:19:03.359
not long. So it's like, I, yeah, what.
1316
01:19:03.800 --> 01:19:04.520
What is happening?
1317
01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:04.720
Right?
1318
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:07.479
So it's like yeah, and so yeah, she's like yeah,
1319
01:19:07.560 --> 01:19:12.479
but and she like just moves this prestigious order of nuns.
1320
01:19:12.319 --> 01:19:18.600
In with her husband, with her her husband her kind
1321
01:19:18.680 --> 01:19:25.800
of yeah, it's anyway, we get to eleven forty eleven
1322
01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:31.439
forty one, Bernard gets wind that he's still teaching or something.
1323
01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:34.680
I don't the bishop go ahead.
1324
01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:39.119
The theory here is that Bernard is friends with her uncle.
1325
01:19:41.960 --> 01:19:44.680
There's there's a theory that that I kind of buy,
1326
01:19:44.800 --> 01:19:48.159
which is that, like we think that because her uncle's
1327
01:19:48.199 --> 01:19:49.760
high up at Notre Dame, you know, he's one of
1328
01:19:49.800 --> 01:19:53.920
the canons regular that he knows Bernard and he's like,
1329
01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:55.600
come get this man, I hate him.
1330
01:19:56.920 --> 01:19:59.359
Right, Maybe he finally found out where he was, or
1331
01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:02.319
finally found that he and Eloise were still going on.
1332
01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:10.439
And yeah, either way, look like if you want to hear,
1333
01:20:10.520 --> 01:20:13.960
if you want to the perfect story, and this is
1334
01:20:14.039 --> 01:20:17.439
the point where the church are kind are trying to
1335
01:20:17.560 --> 01:20:20.680
become church cops. That's a big innocent. The second thing,
1336
01:20:21.319 --> 01:20:24.159
he's the pope right here. They're trying to become the cops.
1337
01:20:24.199 --> 01:20:27.439
And if you want to see the perfect mistillation of that,
1338
01:20:28.560 --> 01:20:36.279
uh Abalard is he's dragged in front of them. He
1339
01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:40.880
is very sick. He's very ill. He he goes into
1340
01:20:40.920 --> 01:20:44.680
poor health at this point later in life. He wants
1341
01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:47.920
to defend himself. He's he's ready to. He's like, fine, Bernard,
1342
01:20:48.079 --> 01:20:49.960
bring it all out. I'll do, I will I will do.
1343
01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:54.560
Debate me, debate me, debate me, debate me. And there
1344
01:20:54.720 --> 01:21:00.720
there was a church council at sinn uh and Abillard
1345
01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:04.600
showed up the day for the debate, but uh Old
1346
01:21:04.640 --> 01:21:06.680
Bernardo pulled a fast one on him. And the night
1347
01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:12.199
before uh the judge in the town they had bloodstains
1348
01:21:12.239 --> 01:21:13.960
on his hand. I don't know what to tell you, man,
1349
01:21:14.399 --> 01:21:17.760
You Abilard, you've never been a virgin. You were fucked
1350
01:21:17.760 --> 01:21:19.000
from the start, dude, I don't know.
1351
01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:22.199
Like listen, it's like it's this tells you everything you
1352
01:21:22.319 --> 01:21:24.520
need to know about fucking Saint Bernard of Claibau.
1353
01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:24.960
Right.
1354
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:27.199
It's like he's such a little bitch, like he doesn't
1355
01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:31.359
even have, you know, the the courage of his convictions.
1356
01:21:31.439 --> 01:21:34.319
He can't even tell you why it's heretical. He's just
1357
01:21:34.399 --> 01:21:36.720
like just doesn't seem right, just smells off. It's like, well,
1358
01:21:36.760 --> 01:21:38.520
I know when I see it, and you know, I'm
1359
01:21:38.520 --> 01:21:41.680
always going on and saying, you know, like, oh yeah,
1360
01:21:42.199 --> 01:21:45.000
well that that's by definition.
1361
01:21:44.680 --> 01:21:47.960
What heresy is. But fuck you, Like, if you're supposed
1362
01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:52.159
to be this like intellectual new light of the church,
1363
01:21:52.399 --> 01:21:55.960
then show me, right, show me that's I mean.
1364
01:21:56.119 --> 01:22:00.399
Charging. Charging stuff like this with heresy is a good
1365
01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:05.760
way that you completely detegrate what heresy means. And you
1366
01:22:06.640 --> 01:22:09.000
turn and you begin to turn it, not begin, it's
1367
01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:12.359
already it's already happened, already started, but you turn it
1368
01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:16.439
from a holy punishment reserve for only the worst of
1369
01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:20.119
the worst who commit like a unmentionable sense, to just
1370
01:22:20.239 --> 01:22:23.560
like something you use to, oh, I don't know, get
1371
01:22:23.680 --> 01:22:29.079
rid of a political enemy or theological enemy, you don't like,
1372
01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:32.680
steal someone's land that you want, you know, stuff like that.
1373
01:22:33.039 --> 01:22:38.880
And yeah, Eleanor is exactly right. So he again he
1374
01:22:39.159 --> 01:22:41.760
was charged with heresy and told to stop teaching. He
1375
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:46.039
was not convicted of harresey at the time, and no
1376
01:22:46.159 --> 01:22:50.159
one cared when he immediately left and went somewhere and
1377
01:22:50.439 --> 01:22:55.399
began preaching and did it for a while. But Bernard
1378
01:22:55.520 --> 01:23:03.840
brings him in. He uh stacks the council against Abelard
1379
01:23:05.560 --> 01:23:11.119
the Uh he's convicted on all or condemned on all
1380
01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:15.760
on all charges. H Abalard tries to leave. He wants
1381
01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:19.479
to go to appeal directly to Innocent the Second, going
1382
01:23:19.520 --> 01:23:23.640
towards Rome, but he's in terrible health and he doesn't
1383
01:23:23.720 --> 01:23:26.560
know it yet. But before he's left, Uh, Innocent the
1384
01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:31.000
Second had already issued a bull excommunicating him, giving the
1385
01:23:31.079 --> 01:23:36.479
perpetual remit of silence, and uh not.
1386
01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:41.239
The silence that's the worst, Like that's the worst, the
1387
01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:42.479
death for him, you know.
1388
01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:49.640
A prize yapper like him. Oh, ex community excommunicated all
1389
01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:52.399
of his followers, to which I guess is technically eloise
1390
01:23:53.800 --> 01:23:58.399
and uh yeah, his books were burned. Abelard probably would
1391
01:23:58.439 --> 01:24:04.159
have died in able custody. However, Peter the Venerable, the
1392
01:24:04.199 --> 01:24:08.279
abbot of Clooney, who was Abelard's friend and at least
1393
01:24:08.359 --> 01:24:11.159
not rival, stopped him on the way to Rome and
1394
01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:12.840
was like, hey, man, why don't you hang out here?
1395
01:24:14.399 --> 01:24:20.880
And he did and he died there with it's just
1396
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:23.920
not good. He was in bad health. He had gross
1397
01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:32.079
skin conditions and but yeah, he died and excommunicate and
1398
01:24:32.239 --> 01:24:37.159
a heretic. It was cool after about twenty years after
1399
01:24:37.279 --> 01:24:40.760
his death that was lifted Eloise and Peter of Clooney
1400
01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:48.119
and uh Salisbury, John of Salisbury. Yeah, getting that overturn.
1401
01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:51.199
Yeah, And it's really interesting because like Alois just retains
1402
01:24:51.239 --> 01:24:54.640
this incredible level of power in prestigee, Like she's still
1403
01:24:55.039 --> 01:24:58.840
like mixing it up with, you know, the the most
1404
01:24:58.880 --> 01:25:01.920
elite people that there are. So it's really interesting because
1405
01:25:01.920 --> 01:25:05.000
it's sort of like again, it just shows you that
1406
01:25:05.159 --> 01:25:07.920
none of this has anything to fucking do with her, Like,
1407
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:10.000
none of like the vengeance, none of like any of
1408
01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:11.159
that has anything.
1409
01:25:10.920 --> 01:25:11.479
To do with her.
1410
01:25:11.600 --> 01:25:14.399
And it's like, even though you know, I don't like
1411
01:25:15.840 --> 01:25:18.560
the whole situation about how they got together, I also
1412
01:25:18.680 --> 01:25:20.119
kind of have to take her at her word.
1413
01:25:20.199 --> 01:25:22.439
It's a little bit like YO, believe women. Right.
1414
01:25:22.520 --> 01:25:25.039
If she's like, yeah, no, I love this guy and
1415
01:25:25.159 --> 01:25:28.800
I've devoted my life to him, you're sort of like, oh, okay.
1416
01:25:29.680 --> 01:25:32.119
I mean if you're this devoted, I'm not saying you
1417
01:25:32.199 --> 01:25:37.920
can't like develop like incredibly yeah. Uh, problematic feelings early
1418
01:25:38.039 --> 01:25:40.880
on that you latch onto and stuff like that, but
1419
01:25:41.159 --> 01:25:47.439
like she very clearly deeply loved him and wanted to
1420
01:25:47.479 --> 01:25:48.279
be around.
1421
01:25:48.039 --> 01:25:52.880
Him and associated with him, and and spent the rest.
1422
01:25:52.760 --> 01:25:56.439
Of her life defending like his stuff like she was.
1423
01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:59.920
She was a proponent of his until until she died.
1424
01:26:00.199 --> 01:26:04.560
And I mean like he is one of the people
1425
01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:07.439
who got really fucked over by the church, like at
1426
01:26:07.439 --> 01:26:10.039
the end of his life, like he literally gets uh,
1427
01:26:10.479 --> 01:26:15.279
he gets excommunicated for like crossing Bernard of Clairvaux like
1428
01:26:15.479 --> 01:26:18.399
the like they just he had been he had been
1429
01:26:18.520 --> 01:26:22.479
teaching for fifteen years since since he was first told
1430
01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:24.039
to stop, and they didn't give a fuck.
1431
01:26:24.520 --> 01:26:27.079
And it's like, honest to God, who the fuck is
1432
01:26:27.119 --> 01:26:29.319
Bernard of Clairvaux And why does he have this level
1433
01:26:29.359 --> 01:26:29.720
of power?
1434
01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:29.960
Right?
1435
01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:31.479
It's yeah, who the fuck is this?
1436
01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:37.960
Right? Like yeah, because Abillard was also friends with the Abbott,
1437
01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:43.520
Sugar of of Uh Clooney as well, and it's like
1438
01:26:43.920 --> 01:26:50.039
it's like like the Sugar, Uh, Peter the Venerable, and
1439
01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:53.640
Bernard of Clava were easily like the three most famous
1440
01:26:53.720 --> 01:26:57.840
churchmen of this time. Babillard is close with two of them.
1441
01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:04.960
But because uh uh because uh, because Bernard is like
1442
01:27:05.159 --> 01:27:07.359
in with the Pope and like as like the Pope
1443
01:27:07.399 --> 01:27:12.760
whisperer and like the king maker there, uh is like no,
1444
01:27:12.960 --> 01:27:17.439
he fuck him, he sucks anyway. Yeah. Abillard died in
1445
01:27:17.560 --> 01:27:22.680
eleven forty two, A real one ripped to a piece
1446
01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:26.359
of ship, ripped to I mean, you know, coflicting. He's
1447
01:27:26.399 --> 01:27:30.600
so he is he's yeah, I think, but also I
1448
01:27:30.640 --> 01:27:33.479
think it's good to look at this. Uh. A couple
1449
01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:38.279
of other things we didn't get to. Uh. He's incredibly
1450
01:27:38.439 --> 01:27:42.880
forward thinking. Uh. In the field of psychology. He invented,
1451
01:27:43.199 --> 01:27:45.479
as far as we know, the concept of talking to
1452
01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:48.880
God in your head, so like if you mentally pray
1453
01:27:49.079 --> 01:27:56.239
by like saying dear God, whatever, that's that. I mean,
1454
01:27:56.319 --> 01:27:58.760
Like Abillard was the one who popped I don't. I mean,
1455
01:27:58.840 --> 01:28:00.960
I'm sure people did it, but like he's the one
1456
01:28:01.039 --> 01:28:06.159
who talks about it. He's Uh. He has like rudimentary
1457
01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:12.359
ideas for the modern theory of cognition and debunked the
1458
01:28:12.640 --> 01:28:15.680
idea that mental illness was caused by the devil and
1459
01:28:16.039 --> 01:28:19.680
argued that the insanity defense should be a legal defense
1460
01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:23.760
to these things. He also talked extensively about the multiple
1461
01:28:23.800 --> 01:28:26.479
I think it was too like nervous breakdowns he suffered,
1462
01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:29.000
which is really weird for this time. Yeah.
1463
01:28:29.199 --> 01:28:33.520
Yeah, so it's like really cutting edge stuff.
1464
01:28:34.600 --> 01:28:37.479
That's the thing is, it is fundamentally cutting edge and
1465
01:28:38.199 --> 01:28:42.800
really interesting what he was able to accomplish even with
1466
01:28:43.159 --> 01:28:45.359
this much hatred.
1467
01:28:45.560 --> 01:28:48.439
And it's interesting too because like basically he dies and in.
1468
01:28:48.680 --> 01:28:52.720
Granted it is as a result of Suger and John
1469
01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:55.479
of Salisbury and Eloise is pretty tireless work.
1470
01:28:55.319 --> 01:28:55.760
In this area.
1471
01:28:55.800 --> 01:28:58.399
But everyone is like, oh, yeah, are bad almost immediately.
1472
01:28:59.000 --> 01:29:00.640
I mean probably part of it is because they don't
1473
01:29:00.640 --> 01:29:02.399
have to put up with him anymore.
1474
01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:05.680
Right, Yeah, true, yeah, you can. You can immediately be like, man,
1475
01:29:05.800 --> 01:29:08.239
he was, he was, he was, he was hard done.
1476
01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:11.720
But but you don't you clearly don't have to like
1477
01:29:11.840 --> 01:29:17.000
hear him like fuck off, Peter, God, God, he's he's not.
1478
01:29:17.079 --> 01:29:20.319
In your lecture yelling anymore. Right, Like that's that's kind
1479
01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:24.439
of the point. So I think, uh, that is that
1480
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:25.119
is naked.
1481
01:29:25.600 --> 01:29:31.159
Right Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's able art. He's Yeah, he's
1482
01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:34.520
a week he's like you know, most of the people
1483
01:29:34.600 --> 01:29:37.079
that most of the powerful people we talk about on
1484
01:29:37.159 --> 01:29:41.359
this show are bad or evil for one or very
1485
01:29:41.439 --> 01:29:43.720
many reasons. You know, and I mean this is he
1486
01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:50.760
just he's annoying, a weird guy who's annoying and came
1487
01:29:50.840 --> 01:29:54.520
up with all this stuff and has this extremely oddly
1488
01:29:55.680 --> 01:30:04.199
fucking problematic, probably pedophilic relationship with this girl. And I mean,
1489
01:30:04.279 --> 01:30:06.560
by the way, we should point out that this is
1490
01:30:06.920 --> 01:30:10.079
very clearly an instance of the fact that the church
1491
01:30:10.119 --> 01:30:13.479
has had an issue with pedophilia for a long time.
1492
01:30:13.720 --> 01:30:18.319
It's not just you know, against boys and stuff like that.
1493
01:30:18.520 --> 01:30:20.600
And I mean he was he was a churchman, so
1494
01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:23.960
like this is not like, yeah, but.
1495
01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:29.840
There he is, you know, it's a he's a real
1496
01:30:29.960 --> 01:30:31.960
land of contrast, is an he is.
1497
01:30:32.680 --> 01:30:37.079
I find him incredibly interesting. I find the things that
1498
01:30:37.199 --> 01:30:41.159
he went through later in life to be incredibly awful,
1499
01:30:41.279 --> 01:30:43.119
and I find him to be sympathetic and then I
1500
01:30:43.239 --> 01:30:45.560
remember the other stuff and I'm like, well, fuck you.
1501
01:30:46.199 --> 01:30:48.920
But like that's how I do with with all interesting.
1502
01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:52.279
Like it's like it's Timmy Jin like one of the
1503
01:30:52.319 --> 01:30:55.680
most interesting people to ever lived to me, would hate
1504
01:30:55.760 --> 01:30:58.199
my guests, would kill me in half a second, and
1505
01:30:58.399 --> 01:31:01.359
enslave my family and be happy about it. But like
1506
01:31:01.560 --> 01:31:06.199
he's but like he's interesting. Napoleon fucking interesting. He was
1507
01:31:06.239 --> 01:31:09.960
a demon tried to reinstitute slavery. He's also the reason
1508
01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:13.920
that we all in the Western world have schools literally
1509
01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:18.399
destroyed manorialism. He was the one that did that.
1510
01:31:18.560 --> 01:31:22.239
Like, yeah, I don't Yeah, it's any really, it's I
1511
01:31:22.359 --> 01:31:27.359
think important to look at where little guys sometimes it is.
1512
01:31:27.640 --> 01:31:33.199
Yeah, folks, thank you for listening. We will be back
1513
01:31:33.239 --> 01:31:37.119
next time with some more stuff, possibly possibly an interview,
1514
01:31:38.119 --> 01:31:41.840
but yeah, we will. We'll be back and on Friday,
1515
01:31:42.479 --> 01:31:46.760
we've got our fifth and penultimate episode in our book
1516
01:31:46.800 --> 01:31:51.199
club series on Christier Buelman's Between Two Fires coming for patrons.
1517
01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:53.600
Check that out if you want to hear us talk
1518
01:31:53.640 --> 01:31:57.359
about that book or other stuff. Last time he talked
1519
01:31:57.359 --> 01:32:03.359
about the ancient Mesopotamia religion and their utter horrific fear
1520
01:32:03.600 --> 01:32:08.199
of fire, which is I have no idea how often
1521
01:32:08.520 --> 01:32:11.159
every time I see fire Now I'm like, fuck, oh no,
1522
01:32:11.279 --> 01:32:17.039
they're gonna They're gonna get my bones. No, no existed,
1523
01:32:17.880 --> 01:32:21.239
no anyway, folks. Yeah, check that out. Pictureon dot com
1524
01:32:21.319 --> 01:32:24.119
slash w nasty pod eleanor what the fuck is going on.
1525
01:32:24.199 --> 01:32:28.800
With you, bitch? I'm back in London. It has been noted.
1526
01:32:29.720 --> 01:32:32.079
I think there's not that much going on this week,
1527
01:32:32.119 --> 01:32:34.439
I'm once again just doing a bunch of things that
1528
01:32:34.479 --> 01:32:36.439
aren't out yet, so when they are out, I will
1529
01:32:36.479 --> 01:32:41.560
let you know. But yeah, I'm just trying to finish
1530
01:32:41.640 --> 01:32:47.560
a book, so uh, you know, prayers up for your girl, good.
1531
01:32:47.479 --> 01:32:50.520
Luck eleanor finished that book in the chat or whatever.
1532
01:32:50.560 --> 01:32:52.359
I don't know how this works. I'm on a streamer.
1533
01:32:52.680 --> 01:32:55.520
Let's chat or we cooked chat.
1534
01:32:55.600 --> 01:32:59.720
Chat, feel the good, feel it cooked.
1535
01:33:00.520 --> 01:33:02.880
H I'll bet you can find me on the socials,
1536
01:33:02.920 --> 01:33:05.079
maybe at Going Medieval maybe.
1537
01:33:05.279 --> 01:33:07.479
There you go. Yeah, you can find me Lucas Amazing.
1538
01:33:07.560 --> 01:33:09.239
You find my old ship people, Sister of the Old
1539
01:33:09.239 --> 01:33:12.000
Republic if you want to hear me chat about Star Wars.
1540
01:33:12.800 --> 01:33:15.279
Other than that, thank y'all very much for listening, and
1541
01:33:15.439 --> 01:33:16.960
we will see you next time.
1542
01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:19.640
Oh keep it sloppy.