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[upbeat music] Cheers to another episode of the Wine Notes podcast.
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I'm your guide, AJ Winesuttle, on this journey of stories showcasing the people behind the wonderful world of wine, where we dive into conversations ranging from terroir, viticulture, to favorite music, superpowers, and more.
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Please enjoy this episode of the Wine Notes podcast. Anthony, thank you so much for taking time to be on the podcast today. I really appreciate it. Happy to be here. [laughs] Yep. Yes. Um, it's... Yesterday it rained.
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Yep. And now we have the sun, and like, what... I, I'm so, I'm always curious, like, when it rains and like at this point in the time in, in the vintage, I'm like [gasps]. Yeah, yeah. Dis- disease pressure or whatever.
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[laughs] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think we've had... It's been hot and dry, so a little bit of moisture I think will be good.
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Jaime is excellent, and I'm not too terribly worried about disease pressure, so [laughs] yeah. Good, good. Well, I'm glad to hear it.
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I think we're better off for a little, for it for a little bit of, a little bit of rain. [laughs] I don't think it ever hurts to... Yeah. Yeah. It was just a nice little light rain, which was nice. Yeah, yeah.
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And I always, I don't know, like, you get into the Oregon rainy season, and a lot of times you complain about wanting some sunshine, but then in the summertime every now and again, it's really nice to have some of those cloudy days and sit outside, eat lunch, and not feel like you're gonna get sunburned.
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[laughs] Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Uh, is it okay if I pour us a little bit of a blind wine? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Yep. Uh, you know, as I told you before we started, you know- Yeah... there's, there's zero pressure.
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Uh, you can say it's yummy. You can say it's yucky. You can say, "Oh, my goodness," and we can just move on. Yep. And what- whatever you want to do. Nice. [laughs] Um, I always try to find some sort of little connection.
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Okay. I think I did okay on this connection. Yeah, yeah. So- I'm curious [laughs] more than anything. So we'll, we'll see. Yep. I'm gonna...
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It's like all I've, feel like I've just been sipping on, like, a turmeric ginger tea and eating chocolate, so. That sounds like a great morning to me. Yep. Gets me started. Yes. I'm a little bit of a chocoholic.
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[laughs] That's not a bad thing. All right.
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That's cool. I don't think it's yucky. [laughs] Good. Yep. Phew. [laughs] Ooh. It's got a nice floral note that I'm a fan of. Good, good.
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It's a little bit steely. Uh, no one likes using the term mineral, but [laughs] it's- [laughs]... got some of that going on. I like the texture. You know, and you can think about it a little bit- Mm-hmm...
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you know, as we, as we go through the, the interview. And, uh, at, at the end I'll, I'll reveal what it is. Sounds good. Okay. Yep. Come back around to that. Okay. Yep. Sounds great.
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Uh, before we dive into, you know, dive deep too far, um, I have to ask, what got you into rollerblading?
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[laughs] Uh, ooh, so like many people, uh, that started for me playing roller hockey, uh, in a little, on a cul-de-sac.
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Uh, my, like, childhood best friend's house was in the end of a street with this, like, island in the middle of it, and we would just set up playing roller hockey there.
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And at some point in time we had both gotten into BMXing. Right. And our friends that were BMXing would build rails and ramps and stuff in addition to, like, dirt ramps and, um...
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At some point in time on my way home from playing roller hockey, one of my other friends had saw me and was like, "Try to jump on this rail with your rollerblades," and I ate shit, uh- [laughs]... and loved it.
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Uh, so yeah, that was how it started, was just roller hockey, falling, uh, and then hitting a ramp a few times, and then me and my childhood best friend, Todd, uh, just sort of never looked back.
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And we played hockey a little bit after that, but mostly then we just started to find different obstacles to do tricks on. Um,
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yeah, we'd sort of sneak away and take the buses and trains to New York and Philadelphia when we were in high school and met a bunch of other people and sort of got interested in filming, uh, cool rollerblading parts with friends.
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Right. Uh, and then we both moved to Philadelphia and met a lot of great humans and kept rollerblading and just trying to be a part of that scene and, uh, help be a part of, like, making skate videos and stuff. Um, yeah.
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That's cool. It was, it was a lot of fun. I, I can imagine. The, you know, there's a video of you, like, downtown in, like, 2020 doing a bunch of tricks and whatnot. Yeah. That was- Yep... that was pretty nice.
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[laughs] Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Old man rollerblading. I'm still, like, I have, like, a group chat of a lot of my old friends in Philadelphia where we just share tricks that we still do.
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Sometimes we set each other little trick challenges. Uh, it's a good keeping us, keeping us in it and keeping us active.
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Um, I definitely have transitioned a little bit to doing more rock climbing than rollerblading nowadays, but I still love it, and I'm not stopping. I just, yeah, I can't quite do it as much as I used to.
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[laughs] That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah.And you kind of, like, bonded with a winemaker in New Zealand over rollerblading, didn't you? Uh, he was a skateboarder. Skateboarder. We bonded going to skate parks. Okay.
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Yeah. Um, so yeah. We would hang out, go to skate parks, um, and yeah, Francis Hutt was his name, sort of the first mentor I had in the wine industry.
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Um, so yeah, that was, that was the sort of start of that connection, and then we would just talk yoga and stuff, and he was very much like, I didn't know much about the science behind wine, and watching him and listening to him, like, learn and talk about it, uh, was inspiring for me as I kept...
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I was just learning about viticulture at that time. Um, and yeah, that was sort of the start of me wanting to dive into the wine industry and learn more behind-the-scenes stuff. Um, and also, like, I don't know, wine had
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a different sort of look to it from the outside back then, uh, and sort of meeting him and seeing the sort of production side of winemaking, it seemed like something that maybe I actually did fit into.
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Uh, yeah, and then- Yeah... just kept going from there. [laughs] Well, yeah.
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I mean, it, y- and I think it was in, like, 2009, you and your wife- That was the first time me and my wife went to New Zealand, for our honeymoon. Yeah. Okay. Uh, 2011 is when I started in the wine industry. Okay. Yeah.
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2009, we went there for our honeymoon. Uh, we, we went to a winery that we did end up working for later on. Um, so that was like, we enjoyed wine, but I wasn't in production yet. Okay.
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That was just like, yeah, that was the... I've been to New Zealand three times. The first time was, uh, a friend of mine was competing in their version of the X Games called X Air. Right.
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Uh, I don't remember if this was 2006 or 2007, um, but he invited me down to go on this skate park tour in the north island in New Zealand, and then compete in X Air.
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And I've never been very much of a competitive rollerblader. I've always been more in the, like, try to be creative and film cool stuff, but I'd never been to New Zealand. Uh- Right...
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and I fell in love with the country when I was down there, and talked about it so much that my wife wanted to go. So then 2009, we got married, and we went there for our honeymoon.
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And then 2011, we sort of, we were interested in learning more about agriculture, and there are so many different, uh, growing conditions in such a small area, uh, that it seemed like a great place to
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spend a year and learn about agriculture. And then we ended up working on vineyards, and that was sort of the start of it for me.
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So inevitably, it, I always credit rollerblading as leading me into the wine industry- Right... tangentially. Uh [laughs] Of course. Yeah. I mean, that- Yeah... you know, you find those magical little bonds- Yeah...
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and you just go from there. Yeah, yeah. I think, uh, yeah, rollerblading in the end has been the greatest influence on my life. Uh, yeah, I've met so many awesome humans through it, and continue to. I mean, yeah.
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[laughs] Always. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, most definitely. And, like, your wife was like, "Yes, I wanna get into the wine industry as well." Then she was like, "Uh, nope, I'm, I'm out." Yeah, yeah.
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I think, uh, that first season of pruning in New Zealand, uh, she enjoyed it in the moment, and was very, like, when we got back into the country, was like, "Now I wanna be, I enjoy being a consumer more than working in the industry," which is great.
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Uh, yeah. Yeah. She's, she's an academic advisor at Oregon State University now, um, and loves what she does, and [laughs] and I do this. [laughs] That's perfect. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.
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Um, you know, you were working at Benton Lane- Yeah... with, uh, Chris- Yes... currently of White Walnut. Yeah. And he transitioned to Archery Summit- Yeah... and asked you to come along. Yeah. What, uh, like,
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how come you decided to transition from Benton Lane to Archery Summit? Yeah. Um, I mean, I wasn't full-time at Benton Lane. I was like, I, I, I learned a lot there.
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It was great, and I stayed on to do winter pruning, and then after that is when I started, uh, taking some classes at Oregon State University, 'cause working at Benton Lane, I didn't know anything about that area of Oregon, so I'd moved to Corvallis, learned about the wine program at Oregon State.
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I didn't really know what I was gonna do, so I started taking some classes, and, uh, got a job in the wine lab, um, to learn more about the science behind winemaking. And then
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initially, I was just gonna take some time off from working and just focus on getting that background knowledge.
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Uh, and then when Chris asked me to work at Archery, it was like, well, maybe I can keep doing the background knowledge and, uh, keep doing the hands-on knowledge as well. Right. Uh, so made it work out.
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I took all my classes that first year on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and then worked every other day at, uh, Archery for that harvest. Um, was driving a lot between Corvallis- [laughs]... and, and Dayton. Um,
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and yeah, it was a lot of work, but it was, it was great.
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Um, it was a great experience, and then after that year, and that was 2013, then, uh, I got offered to be a grad student at Oregon State University doing research on wine, uh, which I didn't realize that was a thing that was op, uh, an option.
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And yeah, then, then, yeah, went to grad school, but that was great. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and you know, I, you know, kinda looked over your, your thesis a little bit. Oh, yeah. [laughs] And I'm like- Nice...
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"Oh my gosh." Um- I forget that, like, it's, when people, people ask me about my thesis and then I forget, like, yeah, like, all grad student thesis, theses, I don't know the plural of that- [laughs]...
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um, are available for free on the library website at Oregon State University. So you can look at a l- tons of amazing research there and [laughs]There, there is quite a bit there. Yeah.
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Oh, and just to kinda let everybody on the same page- Yeah... kinda describe malo, mali, malic fer- fermentation. Malo-lactic fermentation. Thank you. [laughs] Yeah.
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Most frequently converted, uh, conversion of malic acid to lactic acid from Oenococcus oeni. Um, so you're taking a, well a- an, an acid that is stronger and converting it to an acid that is slightly weaker.
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Uh, so it will make a wine slightly more approachable when it is high acid, and then it creates a few different aroma compounds, um, along the way and changes the mouthfeel of a wine.
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And then from another standpoint, if you're bottling a wine unfiltered, then going through malo is just one more step for having the wine be m- more stable. Um, yeah. Okay.
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And the reason I ask that is, you know, uh, in your thesis, uh, you were talking about the timing and temperature of malo. Yep.
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And you did a sensory analysis using two different profilings, and I'm curious what the heck these are, napping and ultra flash profiling. Yeah. What, what, what is that? Uh, napping was just a, a...
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I, I'm trying to remember.
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This is the French word for a tablecloth, and so that was, it was based on this research that was basically, like, setting up a piece of paper as a tablecloth where people would taste a wine and then, uh,
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relating how different each wine was by where they placed it on the piece of paper or on the tablecloth.
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So if a wine was really similar, then they'd be really close together on the tablecloth, and if it was very different, then they'd be further apart. Okay.
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And then you'd measure the X, Y coordinates of where the wine was placed and get a sense of how different each wine would be statistically. Okay. Um, and then we'd ask the, uh, panelists to have some terms, um,
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for mouthfeel descriptors that were different between the wines, um, and that's part of the ultr- ultra flash profiling.
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And then comparing all of those to try to get a sense of, uh, if the treatments made differences in the wines. Okay. Yeah. I imagine that had to be absolutely fascinating to dive into. Yes. Um, it was great,
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but also it was really eye-opening to know, like, how much of wine wasn't fully understood from a, a scientific standpoint. That's right. Um, that, like, mouthfeel isn't totally...
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The perception of mouthfeel isn't totally understood, um, which is great, um, that there's still some magic left in wine, but it's [laughs] not something that- [laughs]...
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you can just, like, make in a cocktail in a lab and have it be the best wine in the world. There's still a little bit of an unknown. Uh, yeah. I, I hope so. Yeah. I want an unknown. I want some mystery in there. Exactly.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] Once everything is figured out, it gets a lot less interesting. [laughs] Exactly. Yeah. Uh, so you had some winemakers on that panel. Yes. Do you remember who was on that panel?
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Uh, I don't think I'm allowed to say that. Oh. [laughs] So. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Darn it. [laughs] Yeah, yeah. Well, that's no fun. Yeah, yeah. They're, they're anonymous.
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I mean, that's part of it, and then the other part, just, like, the reason behind using winemakers as panelists is that it's, it's a lot easier 'cause they are experts versus having to train, train a lot of panelists to do the tasting.
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Right, and that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I was just wanting, wanting a little bit of dirt. Yeah. Wanted to understand. Yeah. Darn it. I understand. [laughs] Yeah. No, no, no, we can't... Yeah. No.
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That's- Not, not putting anyone on blast or anyone's palate on blast or anything. [laughs] Yeah. No, it was... No. It, it was just more- I know... curiosity than anything. Yeah. Oh. As... I, I don't... Ugh.
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I'm trying to find the words. I'm trying to... You've worked with some amazing winemakers. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And, um, one of those was Kate Payne-Brown- Yep... at Archery Summit. Yep.
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And she gave you some advice- Yeah... about stress. Oh, yeah. [laughs] That first, first harvest at Archery, um, for sure. Uh, yeah, it was... Yeah.
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If I could handle doing all of the schoolwork I was doing, and I think I was talking about it with her when either midterms or finals were coming up, so it was, like, a little bit of extra stress, then, like, the work of winemaking later on would be easy.
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Like, this is gonna be harder than that would be. Right. Um, which was a great little nugget that I've definitely held onto along the way.
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Um, not to say stuff doesn't get stressful now, but it's always like, well, this isn't as stressful as when I was trying to study for an O chem final and [laughs] didn't have- [laughs]...
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any free time 'cause I was driving an hour each way to go to work. [laughs] That, that can be very stressful. Yeah. Yeah.
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And at the time, I think we were doing three cap managements a day at Archery, so there was nighttime cap management.
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So there were times on those Tuesdays and Thursdays where I'd drive down late to do those and then stay over and work the next day, and yeah, it was a lot, but it was good, I mean, in the end.
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And now, now that you look back on it, you're like, "Oh, this is easy." Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was, that was a little more stressful than- Yeah... than a normal, normal harvest.
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Yeah, and I, and I'm not saying that harvest- Yeah... or what you're doing is easy. It has its own- Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm not saying that at all. There's a lot of unknown in it. Yes.
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Just, and it's a little different when you are an intern versus when you're in charge. [laughs] Of everything. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So you bought, brought a blind wine- Yes... to test me on. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah.
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This'll be... Yeah, this will also be fun. [laughs] You know, I think- But again, also, yeah, same, same, no pressure. It's like... But no, I think it's fun. I enjoy, uh, you know, the, the blind wines.
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I've only been blinded one other time- Okay... on the, on the podcast. Yep. And it was, um, an Italian varietal that I'd never even heard of. Oh, right. It was a Schiava Tinto or I, I always say it wrong. Yeah.
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I was like, "I, I don't know if I've had that." Um- Yeah... I've definitely... I admittedly-Have a hole in my wine knowledge with a lot of Italian wine. I get intimidated by the, the breadth of it.
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We have a lot of people in our tasting room that are very into Italian wines, and I sort of defer to them oftentimes. Um, a lot... Yeah, in my time at Archery, I think I, I definitely dove more into French wines.
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[laughs] I don't blame you. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it, it was... I wasn't expecting a varietal that I'd never had, or less and less heard of. Yeah.
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But the reason that they blinded me on it was they're actually planting that varietal- Oh, okay... in their vineyard. Nice. And I'm like, "Ooh, that'll be fun." Yep. Yep.
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Well, yeah, I guess I'll let you taste first, and then sort of- Okay... talk about a little bit why we- I chose to pick this one.
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Okay. Um- [laughs] Yeah, you can hate it. There's no- No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. It, it is far from hate. Yeah. [laughs] And I'm, you know, uh, when I first saw the bottle, I was like, "Okay, they have an Aligote."
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And, like, being aware, is it, is it Aligote? Yeah. Uh, so I was trying to figure that out. Yeah. Um, but then I'm also thinking this might be, like, a barrel sample. Okay. Uh, and so I don't know. I, I'm...
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I love that the nose on it, there is, there is a unique characteristic on the nose- Mm-hmm... that I'm like, ooh, I don't think I've quite, have, have, uh, smelled that before. Yeah.
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You know, on, on a Chardonnay, so maybe, maybe Aligote. I, I don't know. Okay. Yeah. Uh- Yeah... I think you also have Pinot Meunier as well. Yep, yep. But we don't...
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Well, I mean- I, I don't- Unless I was tasting on a base wine. We make a, we make a still Pinot Meunier, and we do make 100%, uh, Pinot Meunier sparkling. Right.
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Um, but yeah, this isn't bubbly, so [laughs] No, it's not bubbly. Yeah. I was just, you know, just rambling off. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um- I, I like it. Yeah. Oh. Oh.
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And kind of what gave me the thought that it might be a barrel sample is on the palate- Yeah... you know, it still might be a little young. Yeah, yeah. And, uh- It is, it is young. [laughs] And so just, um... Yeah.
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I, and I'm just gonna have to go with my gut and say it's a, you know, it's a barrel a- or it's a barrel sample of Aligote. Yeah. That is, that is great.
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Um, so you walked in, and we are in the middle of just starting racking to get ready for bottling. Um, so we're starting with whites before reds. The first thing that we just racked was Aligote.
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So this is just our, the fresh blend- Right... just out of barrel of the 2023 Aligote. Very nice. But yeah. Perfect. Well, I, I feel- Spot on... I feel privileged. You got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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[laughs] So yeah, very young wine. Yeah. Uh, it's gonna get bottled in a few, a few weeks, I guess, or- Wow. Yeah. Um, but yeah. I, and I'm a huge fan of Aligote. Nice. I don't know if Amelia told you that or not.
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No, no, she didn't, which- Oh, okay... that's awesome that- [laughs] Yeah... that worked out. It was just like this was the first thing that we...
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We just started racking yesterday, and this was the first one that we put together, so it was like, "Okay, well, perfect. We'll taste on this one," and that's serendipitous, which is awesome. [laughs] It is awesome.
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Yeah. Um, how is... When you came to Flaneur, was Aligote, like, was this the first time that you've- Worked with Aligote? Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Okay. So first time working...
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Starting at Flaneur, it was the first time working in production for sparkling, first time working with Aligote, Gruner Veltliner, um, Pinot Meunier, and now Gamay. So- Nice... yeah, which has been great.
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I mean, it's stuff that I've been really interested in.
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I think even when I was at Archery Summit, it was something I, we had talked about 'cause it was like sparkling was getting more popular, and it was like, would this make sense for the brand?
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And it was like, probably not, but, uh, it was something I was interested in. Um, so it's definitely something that drew me, drew me here. Right. Um, yeah.
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And then Aligote has been a lot of fun, especially it was the first fruit from the vines at La Belle Promenade for Aligote. The first fruit came out in 2021,
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and I started at Flaneur, and it was, like, one of my first jobs was helping blend the 2021 vintage. So, um, yeah, got to have a little, a little part of that vintage even though I wasn't here for it, and then
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have been here since then, so. [laughs] Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. And- So this is the 2023, uh, Aligote. Yeah. I- Yeah... I think it's on a beautiful journey. Yeah. Yeah.
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It'll, it'll be absolutely amazing in, in just a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that it's not amazing now. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] It is. I can see- Yeah... the ability for it to progress really, really nicely.
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Yeah. Yeah. Still needs some time in bottle, and then- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is great. Needs to get in bottle. [laughs] I'm keeping you from putting it all in bottle. No, yeah. We have a bottle.
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Bottling is scheduled. We're just starting to rack now to get it all ready for it. Yeah. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. A- and another reason that you kinda came to Flaneur was for sparkling, right? Yeah. Yeah.
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And, uh, do you still keep in contact with Kate and, like, get some sparkling advice? I, I mean, I, I've still been in contact with Kate. I haven't, like, poked her about advice yet. I guess I, I've been...
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I always get nervous about poking people for advice, like, I don't know. I guess I shouldn't be so much, but [laughs] especially sh- now she's in her new project, which is awesome. Um,
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I s- like, I think I talked to her a little bit shortly before. I just was on a sort of sales trip, uh, and saw her shortly before that. Um, but I should reach out to people more.
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I think I definitely have been-I don't know, hesitant to poke people about things. I think I learned a lot from Grant in that matter, and then from, you know, we use Radiant, like a lot of other people- Right...
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and have definitely had a lot of conversations with those guys over there. Um, but it would be good to talk to her more about it. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah I, I think it's, you know, it's the Oregon community.
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It's all about collaboration and- Yeah... helping out one another. I, yeah, I should just be better about those things. I get, like, stuck in, like, I don't wanna trouble people. Oh, I get it. And then- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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But, you know, I, I think if somebody came to you- Yeah, I-... and asked, you'd probably in a heartbeat. Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, it's, aside from the Oregon community, I think that's a part of just, like, anyone who goes to grad school. [laughs] Yeah.
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It's like you're standing on the shoulders of everyone's research before you, and it's sort of a good, uh, example as you go into the wine industry afterwards that, like, no one lives on an island.
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Uh, wine's been made for thousands of years, and [laughs] Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah. Uh- There's lots to learn from the people who have been doing it for a lot longer than you have. [laughs] Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
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Uh, to go back a little bit, uh, you were, you made a wine at Archery Summit. It was, like, the 25th anniversary. Yes. Yep.
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And you ended up, uh, deciding to use own-rooted Pinot Noir that was planted in a vineyard in 1963. Uh, '73. '73, sorry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That, yeah, so that was, uh, that was all thanks to Ian Birch.
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Um, it was, like, his first vint- first full vintage at Archery Summit. Um, he had just given me the option to pick what my favorite block was and to give me autonomy in making that wine. Um, and then,
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I, I mean, initially it was just my hope was for it to be something that would be really, really good and maybe be a part of the Arcus Vineyard designate.
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So then when it ended up being the, made into the 25th anniversary wine, and just being able to stand alone by itself, that was sort of, like, w- way better than I [laughs]... ever could have hoped for with that.
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Um, so yeah, that was all thanks to Ian, just, like, sort of an olive branch of, like, him starting the first full vintage there and a- allowing me that autonomy to do that 'cause, you know, I was the oenologist, um, at the time, not, like, the winemaker or anything, so it was great to be allowed that.
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[laughs] Yeah, no, that's amazing. What did you- Yeah... like, when they told you it was gonna be, like, the 25th anniversary wine- Oh, God, yeah, yeah... did you freak out or anything? I was floored. Yeah, yeah.
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[laughs] I, I didn't quite know how to handle it. Um, and then I still, to be honest, like, I've, I've had it, but I have...
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I opened one bottle of it, and then I have two others, I think, that I've just been, like, holding onto that I'm like, don't really... I don't like to hold onto things too long.
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It's like I just wanna enjoy them, but at the same time, it's like, I wanna see if it ages the way I hoped it would age.
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[laughs] Do you have- As the first, like, first full wine that I got to make and have bottled and- Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would have to hold onto that for quite some time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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And, you know, just getting the opportunity to work with own-rooted Pinot here that's that old is definitely a privilege. Uh, as, you know, there is phylloxera in the valley, obviously.
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There's a lot of own-rooted vines that aren't, aren't super healthy, so it's awesome that there's still some that are doing really well. Um- Right... yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I completely agree.
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I can only imagine what that was like- Yeah... for you to be like, "Oh, my gosh." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It was sort of like when he said the, "Just pick your favorite block," like, "It doesn't matter what it is," I was sort of like, "Like, anything?" Like, "Are you sure?" Like [laughs] And he's like, "Yep, I'm sure."
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Yeah, yeah. Yep. So that was awesome. But yeah, or I, I, I've always loved that vineyard, um, and still love that vineyard.
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Arcus is a, an amazing site and has amazing fruit, and there's amazing wines being made from it, so [laughs] yeah. Yes. It's always gonna be a special place.
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And it's, it is one of the most scenic vineyards in the valley, so yeah. Yeah. I, I completely agree. Yeah. Oh. So you came here to Flannory- Yeah... and, you know, working with Grant Colter- Yeah...
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learned a lot, but- Which he might randomly show up at some point in time. I'm wa- He's, uh, he's borrowing a piece of equipment. [laughs] Oh.
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[laughs] Like, but at some point in time in this interview, he might randomly pop through just [laughs] as a- But that's fine. You know, we'll get him on camera- Yeah, yeah...
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and ask him, you know, how was, how was Fourth Wing? Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Right. No, I, I had him and Renee on the, the podcast- Oh, yeah, yeah...
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and, uh, you know, he was reading, uh, Fourth Wing, a, a book that, you know, his daughter read and his wife read. Oh, okay. And- I was like, "I don't know what Fourth Wing is." It's, it's okay.
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"I didn't wanna say anything," but [laughs] It's, it's a, it's a young adult novel, and there's- Okay... some, you know, extreme, uh, graphic scenes in, in there. Okay.
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And so it would just be kinda curious to see his reaction. You know- Yeah, yeah... like, "Hey, how was that?" If he, yeah, has finished it all the way through? Yes. Well, Renee told me that he has. Okay. Nice.
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So we would, it would be interesting to see. I'm curious. I, I have not read a lot of YA novels lately, uh, but maybe I'll give it a try. I don't know. I do read a lot of books, but [laughs] Yeah.
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Well, I, I have to say, once you, uh, start it, there, there's two books so far. Okay. There'll be another one coming out in January. Yep. You can't, it, it's just one of those you just can't put down. Okay.
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Uh, I, I will admit that I'm a little nervous about starting any series that isn't finished. Yes. Um, I was burned by Game of Thrones. Uh, so I, I, I read, started reading that a long time ago.
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A friend recommended it to me.
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Um, and then the shows came out, I think, or at least I started watching the shows after I had finished the last released book.And then, you know, the shows progressed and finished, and the books never did.
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Um, and they had diverged. Right. So there were some things I wasn't super happy about. And then the other mistake, mistake is a hard word, I enjoyed my time reading them, but I, I read...
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I started reading Dune long, long ago. Um, it was actually, it was a pretty influential book for me. I don't read a lot of science fiction or fantasy, but those two series I have read. And when I started Dune,
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I very ignorantly didn't know that it didn't come to completion in the author's lifetime. Oh. Um, so then finished the series and was like, "Oh. Oh no." [laughs] You know, it's just... Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I...
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Series, but, and you know, the, um, so Stephen King has a series called The Dark Tower. We were just... My, my cellar hand's reading that right now. [laughs] Oh. And we were just talking about it.
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I haven't read it, but I [laughs] yeah. Well, so I started that when I was in junior high. Okay. And then he just would like come out with a book like every four years or whatever. Yep.
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And finally finished it like o- once I was in my 30s. Okay. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Yeah. It, it's... That was, that was a struggle for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah, for a lot of those I'll, I'll usually wait to see if the series finishes, and then, then maybe I'd go back and read them. But I, yeah, I, I, I, I don't know. I love books.
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Um, I've always been a huge literature buff. Uh, and then sometimes I'll read a series. Um, a lot of times I'll stick away from them.
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I think right now the closest thing to a series I'm reading is, uh, David Mitchell, where it's not a series, but the books are connected. Right. Um, but otherwise I haven't...
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I'm not in, in the process of any series books right now, serial or... Yeah. Okay. Yeah. [laughs] Well, uh, where I was going with Grant- Yeah... is you're now the head wine maker at Flanor. Yes. Yeah.
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Can you- Congratulations. Thank you. Yep. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, it's been a good transition.
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Um, it was something sort of Grant was very open with me about when I first came on, that like this was sort of the idea, but that there wasn't a timeline behind it.
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Um, it was just like a eventually he was going to focus on Hundred Sons, him and Renee, fully and step away from Flanor, and I didn't know when that was gonna be. Um, and then yeah, now, now, now it's here. And [laughs]
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yeah. Now the weight of the world is on your shoulders. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] I mean, it's, I, it was, it's been good. It was just a, it was a slow transition of Grant just sort of like,
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like giving me more and more- Right... and not just like a drop everything at once. So [laughs] Well, that's good. I mean, that's the way it should be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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And also, like, you know, he and I had a lot of similarities in what we enjoyed about the two vineyards. Um, so it's also great to not have it be like a dramatic change in style, um,
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between the two of us in the wine 'cause, you know, we're a small brand, but there's a lot of people that like our wines, and, and [laughs]... they don't want it to change too dramatically. So [laughs] yeah.
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That's understandable. It's like I wanna make wines like for, for me and for them. Uh, so I wanna be honest to what my palate i- like, likes and desires. Uh, and it's good that the two of us had so many overlaps.
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Uh- Right... yep. That, that is absolutely amazing. Yep. So you have, you have Pinot Noir, you have Chardonnay, and you have Pinot Meunier. Yep. Is there any like,
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you know, sparkling blend with those three coming down the pipe anytime? We do, yeah. So we do, um, our, our... We do a vintage extra brut, and that is a blend of all three.
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Um, and then we are starting to tinker with the idea of doing a non-vintage brut. Okay. So I've got some, some wine, uh, from different vintages that we're gonna start blending together.
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Um, I don't know exactly the release schedule of that, but so that's... It's gonna be a blend of the three grapes. Um, and then we do 100% Pinot Meunier. It's called our Bon Vivant Sparkling. Um,
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which we don't make a huge amount of it, so a lot of times it's just sold out of the tasting room. Uh, and then I am trying, I'm, I've been pushing to make a, ha- a, have us make a blanc de blanc more consistently.
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Oh, okay. Uh, I, I'm a huge Chardonnay lover, and I really enjoy what Chardonnay brings from La Belle Promenade to a sparkling blend. And, uh, Grant made a blanc de blanc in 2016,
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and it was five years on tirage, and it was excellent. I just really loved it. And so, uh, keeping that, I just think it did so well, uh, I sort of
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want to keep that going and, and start doing, adding that to the, the normal part of the Flanor program to have a five-year tirage blanc de blanc. Um, yeah. That would be amazing. Yep. Yep. Wow.
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So we have some in tirage right now, but you know, five-year tirage, so it'll take a little bit. [laughs] You know, and it's always hard to wait for the- Yeah... for the sparkling. Yeah. It's good.
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I mean, it, it's, it's sort of one of those things like in wine making you have to have a longer term view of things in general 'cause, you know, you taste your blends, you put them together, they go into bottle, they sit for a little bit before they're released, and then you have to wait longer to see if they age the way that you want them to age, and it takes a long time to start tasting wines and sort of get a sense of like if the way you think they're gonna age actually, actually works out.
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Right.
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Um, and same, e- even more so with sparkling I'd say 'cause you have that immediate, uh, actual tasting when you do disgorgement and, and doing the trials for what you're gonna do, uh, for disgorgement, um, which is great to have that little window into it, but it's still like a, a learning process.
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Um, which yeah, has been great. Uh, it's great fun for me. Um-I don't know. I, I, I, I definitely associate with the forever the student mindset, I guess. Right. Um, yeah. [laughs] Never let an ego get too big.
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[laughs] No, no. Yeah. But, you know, you've, you've had so much, um, you've had so many great mentors. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you... Uh, Chris, Ian, Grant. Yeah. You know, you worked with Kate Payne-Brown. Yeah. So the,
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the big question that I have for you- Yeah... is, you know, who are you rollerblading with or rock climbing with- [laughs]... and being a mentor?
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[laughs] And maybe it's not all of those combinations, but I mean- Yeah, yeah... I guess a better question was, like, who are you mentoring now, like passing along your knowledge? I mean, I, I... Ellen, for sure.
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[laughs] Hopefully. That's... She, she just started, so, you know, for a while, um, as Grant was slowly stepping back from stuff here, it was just me alone in the cellar.
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Um, so now as Grant has officially stepped away and is just focusing on Hundred Sons, now I have Ellen, which is great. Um, she's super excited, uh, and very
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willing to learn, which is great, um, having someone that's excited about wine and wants to keep learning. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I'd say when I have harvest interns, I definitely gravitate towards people that
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want to learn. I like learning from them, too. Like, they have experiences in different places, and then- Right... yeah.
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I'd, uh, I guess, yeah, I, I'd say we're, since I don't have that many staff members, it's like I don't have a lot of people that I feel like I'm mentoring. I, like- [laughs]...
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I hope to be mentoring Ellen, and then when we- Right... have harvest interns it's definitely a thing. [laughs] Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. I hear this beeping and I'm like, "Who's here? Somebody's..."
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[laughs] It might be Grant. It might be. [laughs] That... Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I have some rapid-fire questions for you. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And then I'll, uh- Shoot. [laughs]... uh, disclose what the wine is.
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Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Nice. You're welcome. Um, favorite artist to listen to during harvest? Uh, artist to listen to during harvest. Uh, Dorothy Ashby. Okay. Yeah, she's a jazz harpist, so. [laughs] Yeah.
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Uh, your favorite indulgent food? Uh, carbonara. Okay. If you could choose a superpower, what would it be? Uh, telekinesis. [laughs] Okay. Uh, your harvest notes, are they digital or handwritten? Handwritten.
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Yeah. And then I, uh, the last book you read. Last book I read. Uh... It could be on Audible or it could be a podcast or something as well. Oh, no, I just have to... I'm, I'm reading Go- Ghost Written right now. Uh,
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I'm trying to remember what I read right before Ghost Written. Oh, you can just say Ghost Written. Um, like- That's fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm partway through Ghost Written.
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I, I read Annie Ernaux, The Years. I'm trying to remember if I read something in between that or not. Those two I rem- uh, Jorie Graham. I read a book of poetry by Jorie Graham. Um,
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I don't remember the name of it, but it is excellent. It sort of got me back into poetry. Um- Nice. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Well, shall I reveal what the, the wine was? Oh, yeah. Sure, sure.
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Do you want another sip or anything to- Um, I mean, I'll, I'll take another sip. I, I've not, like, I don't have, like, an ego attached to, like, feeling like I need to, need to guess it or something.
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I'm- Well- I'm enjoying, enjoying the blind experience, though. [laughs] You know, it is, it is fun to do. I mean, I was curious thinking, like, "What would he blind me on?"
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[laughs] Well, I mean, there, there is, like I said, a little bit of a connection here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I guess, yeah, I'm more, I'm more interested in that, like whether the connection is, like, a producer that I've talked about before or whether it's something I was a part of, or whether I should know that or not.
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[laughs] Well, if you want, I can just go ahead and, and tell you. Yeah. And so it is, uh, Chris's White Walnut Chardonnay. Mm. Awesome. Sorry. [laughs] No, that's... [laughs] That's awesome. Yeah. Hell, yeah.
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[laughs] So I, you know, I just thought that would be a nice little, a little connection- Yeah... you know, since you worked with Chris at Archery Summit and- Yep. That vineyard is awesome also. [laughs] It is.
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I, I love the chard from that vineyard. It's... Yeah, also Chardonnay from that vineyard, and it is right next to Renegade Ridge, which has a little bit of Chardonnay planted on it, which is also beautiful and yeah.
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Yes, very much so. I have to, I have to tell him how good this is. [laughs] Well, that's all the questions that I have. Do you have any questions or anything for me? Um, I'm not sure. I guess I...
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What I asked you before about what got you into wine, and you were talking about, like, moving here and getting into wine and sort of being a member at Domaine Serene and having that sort of part of the education.
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But I guess I didn't know if there was any more aha moments for you.
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You know, the- 'Cause I, like, for me, I know, like, I just, like, had friends in the restaurant industry in Philadelphia, tasted some different wines, had my, like, aha moment.
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But, like, I feel like it doesn't always have to be all wine, but there's usually something where you're like you, you keep digging. Right. And, and- Yeah... uh, you know, for me, it was probably Domaine Serene. I- Okay.
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Yeah, yeah. You know, I had tasted plenty of other wines and like, "Yep, this is good. Yeah, this is good." Yep. But I mean, nothing was like, "Whoa." Yeah.
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But I went out, um, with a group of friends and, uh, you know, had a little, a little party bus. Yep. And, uh, Domaine Serene had a, like, a club release party. Yeah.
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And they were doing barrel samples of their Fleur de Lis. Yeah, yeah. And I tried that, and that was, that, that was it. Nice. I'm like, "Uh, uh, yes, please. I'm done." Yeah, yeah.
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So a true, uh, sort of homegrown as it is Oregon wine aficionado, which is awesome. [laughs] Yes. Yeah. Very much so. As we all try to beat the drum of how good Oregon wine is, it's [laughs] nice to- Right...
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nice to have you do what you do. [laughs] I, I enjoy doing it. Yeah. It's such a pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Cool. Anything else? Uh, I think, I think that's it. [laughs] Okay.
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Well, I wanna thank you for so much for your time today. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Yep. Awesome. Yeah.
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[upbeat music] Thank you for joining me on this flavorful voyage through the world of wine on the Wine Notes podcast.
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I've been your host and guide, AJ Winesel, and it's been an absolute pleasure sharing these captivating stories with you. But alas, like the last sip of a fine vintage, our time together must end.
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But don't fret, my wine-loving friend, the cellar doors of the Wine Notes podcast will always remain open, waiting for you to return and explore new conversations, stories, and musings from the captivating people behind the magical world of wine.
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Before you go, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and don't forget to leave a sparkly five-star review to help spread the word.
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Until our glasses clink again, remember to savor life's moments, and let the spirit of wine and camaraderie linger on your palate.
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Cheers, and as always, may your wine glass be full, your heart be light, and your journey be delightful. Thank you again.
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[upbeat music] Cheers to another episode of the Wine Notes podcast.
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I'm your guide, AJ Winesuttle, on this journey of stories showcasing the people behind the wonderful world of wine, where we dive into conversations ranging from terroir, viticulture, to favorite music, superpowers, and more.
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Please enjoy this episode of the Wine Notes podcast. Anthony, thank you so much for taking time to be on the podcast today. I really appreciate it. Happy to be here. [laughs] Yep. Yes. Um, it's... Yesterday it rained.
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Yep. And now we have the sun, and like, what... I, I'm so, I'm always curious, like, when it rains and like at this point in the time in, in the vintage, I'm like [gasps]. Yeah, yeah. Dis- disease pressure or whatever.
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[laughs] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think we've had... It's been hot and dry, so a little bit of moisture I think will be good.
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Jaime is excellent, and I'm not too terribly worried about disease pressure, so [laughs] yeah. Good, good. Well, I'm glad to hear it.
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I think we're better off for a little, for it for a little bit of, a little bit of rain. [laughs] I don't think it ever hurts to... Yeah. Yeah. It was just a nice little light rain, which was nice. Yeah, yeah.
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And I always, I don't know, like, you get into the Oregon rainy season, and a lot of times you complain about wanting some sunshine, but then in the summertime every now and again, it's really nice to have some of those cloudy days and sit outside, eat lunch, and not feel like you're gonna get sunburned.
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[laughs] Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Uh, is it okay if I pour us a little bit of a blind wine? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Yep. Uh, you know, as I told you before we started, you know- Yeah... there's, there's zero pressure.
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Uh, you can say it's yummy. You can say it's yucky. You can say, "Oh, my goodness," and we can just move on. Yep. And what- whatever you want to do. Nice. [laughs] Um, I always try to find some sort of little connection.
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Okay. I think I did okay on this connection. Yeah, yeah. So- I'm curious [laughs] more than anything. So we'll, we'll see. Yep. I'm gonna...
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It's like all I've, feel like I've just been sipping on, like, a turmeric ginger tea and eating chocolate, so. That sounds like a great morning to me. Yep. Gets me started. Yes. I'm a little bit of a chocoholic.
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[laughs] That's not a bad thing. All right.
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That's cool. I don't think it's yucky. [laughs] Good. Yep. Phew. [laughs] Ooh. It's got a nice floral note that I'm a fan of. Good, good.
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It's a little bit steely. Uh, no one likes using the term mineral, but [laughs] it's- [laughs]... got some of that going on. I like the texture. You know, and you can think about it a little bit- Mm-hmm...
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you know, as we, as we go through the, the interview. And, uh, at, at the end I'll, I'll reveal what it is. Sounds good. Okay. Yep. Come back around to that. Okay. Yep. Sounds great.
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Uh, before we dive into, you know, dive deep too far, um, I have to ask, what got you into rollerblading?
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[laughs] Uh, ooh, so like many people, uh, that started for me playing roller hockey, uh, in a little, on a cul-de-sac.
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Uh, my, like, childhood best friend's house was in the end of a street with this, like, island in the middle of it, and we would just set up playing roller hockey there.
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And at some point in time we had both gotten into BMXing. Right. And our friends that were BMXing would build rails and ramps and stuff in addition to, like, dirt ramps and, um...
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At some point in time on my way home from playing roller hockey, one of my other friends had saw me and was like, "Try to jump on this rail with your rollerblades," and I ate shit, uh- [laughs]... and loved it.
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Uh, so yeah, that was how it started, was just roller hockey, falling, uh, and then hitting a ramp a few times, and then me and my childhood best friend, Todd, uh, just sort of never looked back.
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And we played hockey a little bit after that, but mostly then we just started to find different obstacles to do tricks on. Um,
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yeah, we'd sort of sneak away and take the buses and trains to New York and Philadelphia when we were in high school and met a bunch of other people and sort of got interested in filming, uh, cool rollerblading parts with friends.
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Right. Uh, and then we both moved to Philadelphia and met a lot of great humans and kept rollerblading and just trying to be a part of that scene and, uh, help be a part of, like, making skate videos and stuff. Um, yeah.
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That's cool. It was, it was a lot of fun. I, I can imagine. The, you know, there's a video of you, like, downtown in, like, 2020 doing a bunch of tricks and whatnot. Yeah. That was- Yep... that was pretty nice.
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[laughs] Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Old man rollerblading. I'm still, like, I have, like, a group chat of a lot of my old friends in Philadelphia where we just share tricks that we still do.
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Sometimes we set each other little trick challenges. Uh, it's a good keeping us, keeping us in it and keeping us active.
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Um, I definitely have transitioned a little bit to doing more rock climbing than rollerblading nowadays, but I still love it, and I'm not stopping. I just, yeah, I can't quite do it as much as I used to.
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[laughs] That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah.And you kind of, like, bonded with a winemaker in New Zealand over rollerblading, didn't you? Uh, he was a skateboarder. Skateboarder. We bonded going to skate parks. Okay.
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Yeah. Um, so yeah. We would hang out, go to skate parks, um, and yeah, Francis Hutt was his name, sort of the first mentor I had in the wine industry.
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Um, so yeah, that was, that was the sort of start of that connection, and then we would just talk yoga and stuff, and he was very much like, I didn't know much about the science behind wine, and watching him and listening to him, like, learn and talk about it, uh, was inspiring for me as I kept...
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I was just learning about viticulture at that time. Um, and yeah, that was sort of the start of me wanting to dive into the wine industry and learn more behind-the-scenes stuff. Um, and also, like, I don't know, wine had
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a different sort of look to it from the outside back then, uh, and sort of meeting him and seeing the sort of production side of winemaking, it seemed like something that maybe I actually did fit into.
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Uh, yeah, and then- Yeah... just kept going from there. [laughs] Well, yeah.
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I mean, it, y- and I think it was in, like, 2009, you and your wife- That was the first time me and my wife went to New Zealand, for our honeymoon. Yeah. Okay. Uh, 2011 is when I started in the wine industry. Okay. Yeah.
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2009, we went there for our honeymoon. Uh, we, we went to a winery that we did end up working for later on. Um, so that was like, we enjoyed wine, but I wasn't in production yet. Okay.
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That was just like, yeah, that was the... I've been to New Zealand three times. The first time was, uh, a friend of mine was competing in their version of the X Games called X Air. Right.
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Uh, I don't remember if this was 2006 or 2007, um, but he invited me down to go on this skate park tour in the north island in New Zealand, and then compete in X Air.
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And I've never been very much of a competitive rollerblader. I've always been more in the, like, try to be creative and film cool stuff, but I'd never been to New Zealand. Uh- Right...
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and I fell in love with the country when I was down there, and talked about it so much that my wife wanted to go. So then 2009, we got married, and we went there for our honeymoon.
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And then 2011, we sort of, we were interested in learning more about agriculture, and there are so many different, uh, growing conditions in such a small area, uh, that it seemed like a great place to
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spend a year and learn about agriculture. And then we ended up working on vineyards, and that was sort of the start of it for me.
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So inevitably, it, I always credit rollerblading as leading me into the wine industry- Right... tangentially. Uh [laughs] Of course. Yeah. I mean, that- Yeah... you know, you find those magical little bonds- Yeah...
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and you just go from there. Yeah, yeah. I think, uh, yeah, rollerblading in the end has been the greatest influence on my life. Uh, yeah, I've met so many awesome humans through it, and continue to. I mean, yeah.
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[laughs] Always. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, most definitely. And, like, your wife was like, "Yes, I wanna get into the wine industry as well." Then she was like, "Uh, nope, I'm, I'm out." Yeah, yeah.
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I think, uh, that first season of pruning in New Zealand, uh, she enjoyed it in the moment, and was very, like, when we got back into the country, was like, "Now I wanna be, I enjoy being a consumer more than working in the industry," which is great.
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Uh, yeah. Yeah. She's, she's an academic advisor at Oregon State University now, um, and loves what she does, and [laughs] and I do this. [laughs] That's perfect. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.
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Um, you know, you were working at Benton Lane- Yeah... with, uh, Chris- Yes... currently of White Walnut. Yeah. And he transitioned to Archery Summit- Yeah... and asked you to come along. Yeah. What, uh, like,
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how come you decided to transition from Benton Lane to Archery Summit? Yeah. Um, I mean, I wasn't full-time at Benton Lane. I was like, I, I, I learned a lot there.
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It was great, and I stayed on to do winter pruning, and then after that is when I started, uh, taking some classes at Oregon State University, 'cause working at Benton Lane, I didn't know anything about that area of Oregon, so I'd moved to Corvallis, learned about the wine program at Oregon State.
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I didn't really know what I was gonna do, so I started taking some classes, and, uh, got a job in the wine lab, um, to learn more about the science behind winemaking. And then
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initially, I was just gonna take some time off from working and just focus on getting that background knowledge.
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Uh, and then when Chris asked me to work at Archery, it was like, well, maybe I can keep doing the background knowledge and, uh, keep doing the hands-on knowledge as well. Right. Uh, so made it work out.
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I took all my classes that first year on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and then worked every other day at, uh, Archery for that harvest. Um, was driving a lot between Corvallis- [laughs]... and, and Dayton. Um,
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and yeah, it was a lot of work, but it was, it was great.
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Um, it was a great experience, and then after that year, and that was 2013, then, uh, I got offered to be a grad student at Oregon State University doing research on wine, uh, which I didn't realize that was a thing that was op, uh, an option.
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And yeah, then, then, yeah, went to grad school, but that was great. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and you know, I, you know, kinda looked over your, your thesis a little bit. Oh, yeah. [laughs] And I'm like- Nice...
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"Oh my gosh." Um- I forget that, like, it's, when people, people ask me about my thesis and then I forget, like, yeah, like, all grad student thesis, theses, I don't know the plural of that- [laughs]...
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um, are available for free on the library website at Oregon State University. So you can look at a l- tons of amazing research there and [laughs]There, there is quite a bit there. Yeah.
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Oh, and just to kinda let everybody on the same page- Yeah... kinda describe malo, mali, malic fer- fermentation. Malo-lactic fermentation. Thank you. [laughs] Yeah.
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Most frequently converted, uh, conversion of malic acid to lactic acid from Oenococcus oeni. Um, so you're taking a, well a- an, an acid that is stronger and converting it to an acid that is slightly weaker.
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Uh, so it will make a wine slightly more approachable when it is high acid, and then it creates a few different aroma compounds, um, along the way and changes the mouthfeel of a wine.
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And then from another standpoint, if you're bottling a wine unfiltered, then going through malo is just one more step for having the wine be m- more stable. Um, yeah. Okay.
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And the reason I ask that is, you know, uh, in your thesis, uh, you were talking about the timing and temperature of malo. Yep.
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And you did a sensory analysis using two different profilings, and I'm curious what the heck these are, napping and ultra flash profiling. Yeah. What, what, what is that? Uh, napping was just a, a...
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I, I'm trying to remember.
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This is the French word for a tablecloth, and so that was, it was based on this research that was basically, like, setting up a piece of paper as a tablecloth where people would taste a wine and then, uh,
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relating how different each wine was by where they placed it on the piece of paper or on the tablecloth.
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So if a wine was really similar, then they'd be really close together on the tablecloth, and if it was very different, then they'd be further apart. Okay.
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And then you'd measure the X, Y coordinates of where the wine was placed and get a sense of how different each wine would be statistically. Okay. Um, and then we'd ask the, uh, panelists to have some terms, um,
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for mouthfeel descriptors that were different between the wines, um, and that's part of the ultr- ultra flash profiling.
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And then comparing all of those to try to get a sense of, uh, if the treatments made differences in the wines. Okay. Yeah. I imagine that had to be absolutely fascinating to dive into. Yes. Um, it was great,
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but also it was really eye-opening to know, like, how much of wine wasn't fully understood from a, a scientific standpoint. That's right. Um, that, like, mouthfeel isn't totally...
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The perception of mouthfeel isn't totally understood, um, which is great, um, that there's still some magic left in wine, but it's [laughs] not something that- [laughs]...
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you can just, like, make in a cocktail in a lab and have it be the best wine in the world. There's still a little bit of an unknown. Uh, yeah. I, I hope so. Yeah. I want an unknown. I want some mystery in there. Exactly.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] Once everything is figured out, it gets a lot less interesting. [laughs] Exactly. Yeah. Uh, so you had some winemakers on that panel. Yes. Do you remember who was on that panel?
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Uh, I don't think I'm allowed to say that. Oh. [laughs] So. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Darn it. [laughs] Yeah, yeah. Well, that's no fun. Yeah, yeah. They're, they're anonymous.
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I mean, that's part of it, and then the other part, just, like, the reason behind using winemakers as panelists is that it's, it's a lot easier 'cause they are experts versus having to train, train a lot of panelists to do the tasting.
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Right, and that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I was just wanting, wanting a little bit of dirt. Yeah. Wanted to understand. Yeah. Darn it. I understand. [laughs] Yeah. No, no, no, we can't... Yeah. No.
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That's- Not, not putting anyone on blast or anyone's palate on blast or anything. [laughs] Yeah. No, it was... No. It, it was just more- I know... curiosity than anything. Yeah. Oh. As... I, I don't... Ugh.
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I'm trying to find the words. I'm trying to... You've worked with some amazing winemakers. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And, um, one of those was Kate Payne-Brown- Yep... at Archery Summit. Yep.
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And she gave you some advice- Yeah... about stress. Oh, yeah. [laughs] That first, first harvest at Archery, um, for sure. Uh, yeah, it was... Yeah.
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If I could handle doing all of the schoolwork I was doing, and I think I was talking about it with her when either midterms or finals were coming up, so it was, like, a little bit of extra stress, then, like, the work of winemaking later on would be easy.
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Like, this is gonna be harder than that would be. Right. Um, which was a great little nugget that I've definitely held onto along the way.
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Um, not to say stuff doesn't get stressful now, but it's always like, well, this isn't as stressful as when I was trying to study for an O chem final and [laughs] didn't have- [laughs]...
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any free time 'cause I was driving an hour each way to go to work. [laughs] That, that can be very stressful. Yeah. Yeah.
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And at the time, I think we were doing three cap managements a day at Archery, so there was nighttime cap management.
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So there were times on those Tuesdays and Thursdays where I'd drive down late to do those and then stay over and work the next day, and yeah, it was a lot, but it was good, I mean, in the end.
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And now, now that you look back on it, you're like, "Oh, this is easy." Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was, that was a little more stressful than- Yeah... than a normal, normal harvest.
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Yeah, and I, and I'm not saying that harvest- Yeah... or what you're doing is easy. It has its own- Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm not saying that at all. There's a lot of unknown in it. Yes.
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Just, and it's a little different when you are an intern versus when you're in charge. [laughs] Of everything. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So you bought, brought a blind wine- Yes... to test me on. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah.
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This'll be... Yeah, this will also be fun. [laughs] You know, I think- But again, also, yeah, same, same, no pressure. It's like... But no, I think it's fun. I enjoy, uh, you know, the, the blind wines.
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I've only been blinded one other time- Okay... on the, on the podcast. Yep. And it was, um, an Italian varietal that I'd never even heard of. Oh, right. It was a Schiava Tinto or I, I always say it wrong. Yeah.
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I was like, "I, I don't know if I've had that." Um- Yeah... I've definitely... I admittedly-Have a hole in my wine knowledge with a lot of Italian wine. I get intimidated by the, the breadth of it.
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We have a lot of people in our tasting room that are very into Italian wines, and I sort of defer to them oftentimes. Um, a lot... Yeah, in my time at Archery, I think I, I definitely dove more into French wines.
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[laughs] I don't blame you. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it, it was... I wasn't expecting a varietal that I'd never had, or less and less heard of. Yeah.
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But the reason that they blinded me on it was they're actually planting that varietal- Oh, okay... in their vineyard. Nice. And I'm like, "Ooh, that'll be fun." Yep. Yep.
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Well, yeah, I guess I'll let you taste first, and then sort of- Okay... talk about a little bit why we- I chose to pick this one.
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Okay. Um- [laughs] Yeah, you can hate it. There's no- No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. It, it is far from hate. Yeah. [laughs] And I'm, you know, uh, when I first saw the bottle, I was like, "Okay, they have an Aligote."
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And, like, being aware, is it, is it Aligote? Yeah. Uh, so I was trying to figure that out. Yeah. Um, but then I'm also thinking this might be, like, a barrel sample. Okay. Uh, and so I don't know. I, I'm...
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I love that the nose on it, there is, there is a unique characteristic on the nose- Mm-hmm... that I'm like, ooh, I don't think I've quite, have, have, uh, smelled that before. Yeah.
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You know, on, on a Chardonnay, so maybe, maybe Aligote. I, I don't know. Okay. Yeah. Uh- Yeah... I think you also have Pinot Meunier as well. Yep, yep. But we don't...
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Well, I mean- I, I don't- Unless I was tasting on a base wine. We make a, we make a still Pinot Meunier, and we do make 100%, uh, Pinot Meunier sparkling. Right.
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Um, but yeah, this isn't bubbly, so [laughs] No, it's not bubbly. Yeah. I was just, you know, just rambling off. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um- I, I like it. Yeah. Oh. Oh.
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And kind of what gave me the thought that it might be a barrel sample is on the palate- Yeah... you know, it still might be a little young. Yeah, yeah. And, uh- It is, it is young. [laughs] And so just, um... Yeah.
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I, and I'm just gonna have to go with my gut and say it's a, you know, it's a barrel a- or it's a barrel sample of Aligote. Yeah. That is, that is great.
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Um, so you walked in, and we are in the middle of just starting racking to get ready for bottling. Um, so we're starting with whites before reds. The first thing that we just racked was Aligote.
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So this is just our, the fresh blend- Right... just out of barrel of the 2023 Aligote. Very nice. But yeah. Perfect. Well, I, I feel- Spot on... I feel privileged. You got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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[laughs] So yeah, very young wine. Yeah. Uh, it's gonna get bottled in a few, a few weeks, I guess, or- Wow. Yeah. Um, but yeah. I, and I'm a huge fan of Aligote. Nice. I don't know if Amelia told you that or not.
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No, no, she didn't, which- Oh, okay... that's awesome that- [laughs] Yeah... that worked out. It was just like this was the first thing that we...
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We just started racking yesterday, and this was the first one that we put together, so it was like, "Okay, well, perfect. We'll taste on this one," and that's serendipitous, which is awesome. [laughs] It is awesome.
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Yeah. Um, how is... When you came to Flaneur, was Aligote, like, was this the first time that you've- Worked with Aligote? Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Okay. So first time working...
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Starting at Flaneur, it was the first time working in production for sparkling, first time working with Aligote, Gruner Veltliner, um, Pinot Meunier, and now Gamay. So- Nice... yeah, which has been great.
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I mean, it's stuff that I've been really interested in.
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I think even when I was at Archery Summit, it was something I, we had talked about 'cause it was like sparkling was getting more popular, and it was like, would this make sense for the brand?
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And it was like, probably not, but, uh, it was something I was interested in. Um, so it's definitely something that drew me, drew me here. Right. Um, yeah.
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And then Aligote has been a lot of fun, especially it was the first fruit from the vines at La Belle Promenade for Aligote. The first fruit came out in 2021,
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and I started at Flaneur, and it was, like, one of my first jobs was helping blend the 2021 vintage. So, um, yeah, got to have a little, a little part of that vintage even though I wasn't here for it, and then
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have been here since then, so. [laughs] Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. And- So this is the 2023, uh, Aligote. Yeah. I- Yeah... I think it's on a beautiful journey. Yeah. Yeah.
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It'll, it'll be absolutely amazing in, in just a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that it's not amazing now. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] It is. I can see- Yeah... the ability for it to progress really, really nicely.
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Yeah. Yeah. Still needs some time in bottle, and then- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is great. Needs to get in bottle. [laughs] I'm keeping you from putting it all in bottle. No, yeah. We have a bottle.
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Bottling is scheduled. We're just starting to rack now to get it all ready for it. Yeah. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. A- and another reason that you kinda came to Flaneur was for sparkling, right? Yeah. Yeah.
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And, uh, do you still keep in contact with Kate and, like, get some sparkling advice? I, I mean, I, I've still been in contact with Kate. I haven't, like, poked her about advice yet. I guess I, I've been...
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I always get nervous about poking people for advice, like, I don't know. I guess I shouldn't be so much, but [laughs] especially sh- now she's in her new project, which is awesome. Um,
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I s- like, I think I talked to her a little bit shortly before. I just was on a sort of sales trip, uh, and saw her shortly before that. Um, but I should reach out to people more.
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I think I definitely have been-I don't know, hesitant to poke people about things. I think I learned a lot from Grant in that matter, and then from, you know, we use Radiant, like a lot of other people- Right...
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and have definitely had a lot of conversations with those guys over there. Um, but it would be good to talk to her more about it. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah I, I think it's, you know, it's the Oregon community.
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It's all about collaboration and- Yeah... helping out one another. I, yeah, I should just be better about those things. I get, like, stuck in, like, I don't wanna trouble people. Oh, I get it. And then- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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But, you know, I, I think if somebody came to you- Yeah, I-... and asked, you'd probably in a heartbeat. Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, it's, aside from the Oregon community, I think that's a part of just, like, anyone who goes to grad school. [laughs] Yeah.
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It's like you're standing on the shoulders of everyone's research before you, and it's sort of a good, uh, example as you go into the wine industry afterwards that, like, no one lives on an island.
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Uh, wine's been made for thousands of years, and [laughs] Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah. Uh- There's lots to learn from the people who have been doing it for a lot longer than you have. [laughs] Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
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Uh, to go back a little bit, uh, you were, you made a wine at Archery Summit. It was, like, the 25th anniversary. Yes. Yep.
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And you ended up, uh, deciding to use own-rooted Pinot Noir that was planted in a vineyard in 1963. Uh, '73. '73, sorry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That, yeah, so that was, uh, that was all thanks to Ian Birch.
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Um, it was, like, his first vint- first full vintage at Archery Summit. Um, he had just given me the option to pick what my favorite block was and to give me autonomy in making that wine. Um, and then,
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I, I mean, initially it was just my hope was for it to be something that would be really, really good and maybe be a part of the Arcus Vineyard designate.
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So then when it ended up being the, made into the 25th anniversary wine, and just being able to stand alone by itself, that was sort of, like, w- way better than I [laughs]... ever could have hoped for with that.
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Um, so yeah, that was all thanks to Ian, just, like, sort of an olive branch of, like, him starting the first full vintage there and a- allowing me that autonomy to do that 'cause, you know, I was the oenologist, um, at the time, not, like, the winemaker or anything, so it was great to be allowed that.
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[laughs] Yeah, no, that's amazing. What did you- Yeah... like, when they told you it was gonna be, like, the 25th anniversary wine- Oh, God, yeah, yeah... did you freak out or anything? I was floored. Yeah, yeah.
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[laughs] I, I didn't quite know how to handle it. Um, and then I still, to be honest, like, I've, I've had it, but I have...
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I opened one bottle of it, and then I have two others, I think, that I've just been, like, holding onto that I'm like, don't really... I don't like to hold onto things too long.
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It's like I just wanna enjoy them, but at the same time, it's like, I wanna see if it ages the way I hoped it would age.
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[laughs] Do you have- As the first, like, first full wine that I got to make and have bottled and- Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would have to hold onto that for quite some time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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And, you know, just getting the opportunity to work with own-rooted Pinot here that's that old is definitely a privilege. Uh, as, you know, there is phylloxera in the valley, obviously.
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There's a lot of own-rooted vines that aren't, aren't super healthy, so it's awesome that there's still some that are doing really well. Um- Right... yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I completely agree.
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I can only imagine what that was like- Yeah... for you to be like, "Oh, my gosh." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It was sort of like when he said the, "Just pick your favorite block," like, "It doesn't matter what it is," I was sort of like, "Like, anything?" Like, "Are you sure?" Like [laughs] And he's like, "Yep, I'm sure."
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Yeah, yeah. Yep. So that was awesome. But yeah, or I, I, I've always loved that vineyard, um, and still love that vineyard.
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Arcus is a, an amazing site and has amazing fruit, and there's amazing wines being made from it, so [laughs] yeah. Yes. It's always gonna be a special place.
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And it's, it is one of the most scenic vineyards in the valley, so yeah. Yeah. I, I completely agree. Yeah. Oh. So you came here to Flannory- Yeah... and, you know, working with Grant Colter- Yeah...
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learned a lot, but- Which he might randomly show up at some point in time. I'm wa- He's, uh, he's borrowing a piece of equipment. [laughs] Oh.
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[laughs] Like, but at some point in time in this interview, he might randomly pop through just [laughs] as a- But that's fine. You know, we'll get him on camera- Yeah, yeah...
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and ask him, you know, how was, how was Fourth Wing? Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Right. No, I, I had him and Renee on the, the podcast- Oh, yeah, yeah...
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and, uh, you know, he was reading, uh, Fourth Wing, a, a book that, you know, his daughter read and his wife read. Oh, okay. And- I was like, "I don't know what Fourth Wing is." It's, it's okay.
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"I didn't wanna say anything," but [laughs] It's, it's a, it's a young adult novel, and there's- Okay... some, you know, extreme, uh, graphic scenes in, in there. Okay.
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And so it would just be kinda curious to see his reaction. You know- Yeah, yeah... like, "Hey, how was that?" If he, yeah, has finished it all the way through? Yes. Well, Renee told me that he has. Okay. Nice.
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So we would, it would be interesting to see. I'm curious. I, I have not read a lot of YA novels lately, uh, but maybe I'll give it a try. I don't know. I do read a lot of books, but [laughs] Yeah.
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Well, I, I have to say, once you, uh, start it, there, there's two books so far. Okay. There'll be another one coming out in January. Yep. You can't, it, it's just one of those you just can't put down. Okay.
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Uh, I, I will admit that I'm a little nervous about starting any series that isn't finished. Yes. Um, I was burned by Game of Thrones. Uh, so I, I, I read, started reading that a long time ago.
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A friend recommended it to me.
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Um, and then the shows came out, I think, or at least I started watching the shows after I had finished the last released book.And then, you know, the shows progressed and finished, and the books never did.
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Um, and they had diverged. Right. So there were some things I wasn't super happy about. And then the other mistake, mistake is a hard word, I enjoyed my time reading them, but I, I read...
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I started reading Dune long, long ago. Um, it was actually, it was a pretty influential book for me. I don't read a lot of science fiction or fantasy, but those two series I have read. And when I started Dune,
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I very ignorantly didn't know that it didn't come to completion in the author's lifetime. Oh. Um, so then finished the series and was like, "Oh. Oh no." [laughs] You know, it's just... Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I...
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Series, but, and you know, the, um, so Stephen King has a series called The Dark Tower. We were just... My, my cellar hand's reading that right now. [laughs] Oh. And we were just talking about it.
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I haven't read it, but I [laughs] yeah. Well, so I started that when I was in junior high. Okay. And then he just would like come out with a book like every four years or whatever. Yep.
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And finally finished it like o- once I was in my 30s. Okay. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Yeah. It, it's... That was, that was a struggle for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah, for a lot of those I'll, I'll usually wait to see if the series finishes, and then, then maybe I'd go back and read them. But I, yeah, I, I, I, I don't know. I love books.
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Um, I've always been a huge literature buff. Uh, and then sometimes I'll read a series. Um, a lot of times I'll stick away from them.
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I think right now the closest thing to a series I'm reading is, uh, David Mitchell, where it's not a series, but the books are connected. Right. Um, but otherwise I haven't...
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I'm not in, in the process of any series books right now, serial or... Yeah. Okay. Yeah. [laughs] Well, uh, where I was going with Grant- Yeah... is you're now the head wine maker at Flanor. Yes. Yeah.
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Can you- Congratulations. Thank you. Yep. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, it's been a good transition.
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Um, it was something sort of Grant was very open with me about when I first came on, that like this was sort of the idea, but that there wasn't a timeline behind it.
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Um, it was just like a eventually he was going to focus on Hundred Sons, him and Renee, fully and step away from Flanor, and I didn't know when that was gonna be. Um, and then yeah, now, now, now it's here. And [laughs]
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yeah. Now the weight of the world is on your shoulders. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] I mean, it's, I, it was, it's been good. It was just a, it was a slow transition of Grant just sort of like,
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like giving me more and more- Right... and not just like a drop everything at once. So [laughs] Well, that's good. I mean, that's the way it should be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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And also, like, you know, he and I had a lot of similarities in what we enjoyed about the two vineyards. Um, so it's also great to not have it be like a dramatic change in style, um,
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between the two of us in the wine 'cause, you know, we're a small brand, but there's a lot of people that like our wines, and, and [laughs]... they don't want it to change too dramatically. So [laughs] yeah.
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That's understandable. It's like I wanna make wines like for, for me and for them. Uh, so I wanna be honest to what my palate i- like, likes and desires. Uh, and it's good that the two of us had so many overlaps.
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Uh- Right... yep. That, that is absolutely amazing. Yep. So you have, you have Pinot Noir, you have Chardonnay, and you have Pinot Meunier. Yep. Is there any like,
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you know, sparkling blend with those three coming down the pipe anytime? We do, yeah. So we do, um, our, our... We do a vintage extra brut, and that is a blend of all three.
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Um, and then we are starting to tinker with the idea of doing a non-vintage brut. Okay. So I've got some, some wine, uh, from different vintages that we're gonna start blending together.
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Um, I don't know exactly the release schedule of that, but so that's... It's gonna be a blend of the three grapes. Um, and then we do 100% Pinot Meunier. It's called our Bon Vivant Sparkling. Um,
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which we don't make a huge amount of it, so a lot of times it's just sold out of the tasting room. Uh, and then I am trying, I'm, I've been pushing to make a, ha- a, have us make a blanc de blanc more consistently.
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Oh, okay. Uh, I, I'm a huge Chardonnay lover, and I really enjoy what Chardonnay brings from La Belle Promenade to a sparkling blend. And, uh, Grant made a blanc de blanc in 2016,
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and it was five years on tirage, and it was excellent. I just really loved it. And so, uh, keeping that, I just think it did so well, uh, I sort of
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want to keep that going and, and start doing, adding that to the, the normal part of the Flanor program to have a five-year tirage blanc de blanc. Um, yeah. That would be amazing. Yep. Yep. Wow.
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So we have some in tirage right now, but you know, five-year tirage, so it'll take a little bit. [laughs] You know, and it's always hard to wait for the- Yeah... for the sparkling. Yeah. It's good.
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I mean, it, it's, it's sort of one of those things like in wine making you have to have a longer term view of things in general 'cause, you know, you taste your blends, you put them together, they go into bottle, they sit for a little bit before they're released, and then you have to wait longer to see if they age the way that you want them to age, and it takes a long time to start tasting wines and sort of get a sense of like if the way you think they're gonna age actually, actually works out.
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Right.
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Um, and same, e- even more so with sparkling I'd say 'cause you have that immediate, uh, actual tasting when you do disgorgement and, and doing the trials for what you're gonna do, uh, for disgorgement, um, which is great to have that little window into it, but it's still like a, a learning process.
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Um, which yeah, has been great. Uh, it's great fun for me. Um-I don't know. I, I, I, I definitely associate with the forever the student mindset, I guess. Right. Um, yeah. [laughs] Never let an ego get too big.
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[laughs] No, no. Yeah. But, you know, you've, you've had so much, um, you've had so many great mentors. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you... Uh, Chris, Ian, Grant. Yeah. You know, you worked with Kate Payne-Brown. Yeah. So the,
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the big question that I have for you- Yeah... is, you know, who are you rollerblading with or rock climbing with- [laughs]... and being a mentor?
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[laughs] And maybe it's not all of those combinations, but I mean- Yeah, yeah... I guess a better question was, like, who are you mentoring now, like passing along your knowledge? I mean, I, I... Ellen, for sure.
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[laughs] Hopefully. That's... She, she just started, so, you know, for a while, um, as Grant was slowly stepping back from stuff here, it was just me alone in the cellar.
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Um, so now as Grant has officially stepped away and is just focusing on Hundred Sons, now I have Ellen, which is great. Um, she's super excited, uh, and very
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willing to learn, which is great, um, having someone that's excited about wine and wants to keep learning. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I'd say when I have harvest interns, I definitely gravitate towards people that
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want to learn. I like learning from them, too. Like, they have experiences in different places, and then- Right... yeah.
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I'd, uh, I guess, yeah, I, I'd say we're, since I don't have that many staff members, it's like I don't have a lot of people that I feel like I'm mentoring. I, like- [laughs]...
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I hope to be mentoring Ellen, and then when we- Right... have harvest interns it's definitely a thing. [laughs] Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. I hear this beeping and I'm like, "Who's here? Somebody's..."
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[laughs] It might be Grant. It might be. [laughs] That... Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I have some rapid-fire questions for you. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And then I'll, uh- Shoot. [laughs]... uh, disclose what the wine is.
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Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Nice. You're welcome. Um, favorite artist to listen to during harvest? Uh, artist to listen to during harvest. Uh, Dorothy Ashby. Okay. Yeah, she's a jazz harpist, so. [laughs] Yeah.
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Uh, your favorite indulgent food? Uh, carbonara. Okay. If you could choose a superpower, what would it be? Uh, telekinesis. [laughs] Okay. Uh, your harvest notes, are they digital or handwritten? Handwritten.
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Yeah. And then I, uh, the last book you read. Last book I read. Uh... It could be on Audible or it could be a podcast or something as well. Oh, no, I just have to... I'm, I'm reading Go- Ghost Written right now. Uh,
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I'm trying to remember what I read right before Ghost Written. Oh, you can just say Ghost Written. Um, like- That's fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm partway through Ghost Written.
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I, I read Annie Ernaux, The Years. I'm trying to remember if I read something in between that or not. Those two I rem- uh, Jorie Graham. I read a book of poetry by Jorie Graham. Um,
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I don't remember the name of it, but it is excellent. It sort of got me back into poetry. Um- Nice. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Well, shall I reveal what the, the wine was? Oh, yeah. Sure, sure.
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Do you want another sip or anything to- Um, I mean, I'll, I'll take another sip. I, I've not, like, I don't have, like, an ego attached to, like, feeling like I need to, need to guess it or something.
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I'm- Well- I'm enjoying, enjoying the blind experience, though. [laughs] You know, it is, it is fun to do. I mean, I was curious thinking, like, "What would he blind me on?"
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[laughs] Well, I mean, there, there is, like I said, a little bit of a connection here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I guess, yeah, I'm more, I'm more interested in that, like whether the connection is, like, a producer that I've talked about before or whether it's something I was a part of, or whether I should know that or not.
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[laughs] Well, if you want, I can just go ahead and, and tell you. Yeah. And so it is, uh, Chris's White Walnut Chardonnay. Mm. Awesome. Sorry. [laughs] No, that's... [laughs] That's awesome. Yeah. Hell, yeah.
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[laughs] So I, you know, I just thought that would be a nice little, a little connection- Yeah... you know, since you worked with Chris at Archery Summit and- Yep. That vineyard is awesome also. [laughs] It is.
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I, I love the chard from that vineyard. It's... Yeah, also Chardonnay from that vineyard, and it is right next to Renegade Ridge, which has a little bit of Chardonnay planted on it, which is also beautiful and yeah.
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Yes, very much so. I have to, I have to tell him how good this is. [laughs] Well, that's all the questions that I have. Do you have any questions or anything for me? Um, I'm not sure. I guess I...
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What I asked you before about what got you into wine, and you were talking about, like, moving here and getting into wine and sort of being a member at Domaine Serene and having that sort of part of the education.
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But I guess I didn't know if there was any more aha moments for you.
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You know, the- 'Cause I, like, for me, I know, like, I just, like, had friends in the restaurant industry in Philadelphia, tasted some different wines, had my, like, aha moment.
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But, like, I feel like it doesn't always have to be all wine, but there's usually something where you're like you, you keep digging. Right. And, and- Yeah... uh, you know, for me, it was probably Domaine Serene. I- Okay.
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Yeah, yeah. You know, I had tasted plenty of other wines and like, "Yep, this is good. Yeah, this is good." Yep. But I mean, nothing was like, "Whoa." Yeah.
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But I went out, um, with a group of friends and, uh, you know, had a little, a little party bus. Yep. And, uh, Domaine Serene had a, like, a club release party. Yeah.
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And they were doing barrel samples of their Fleur de Lis. Yeah, yeah. And I tried that, and that was, that, that was it. Nice. I'm like, "Uh, uh, yes, please. I'm done." Yeah, yeah.
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So a true, uh, sort of homegrown as it is Oregon wine aficionado, which is awesome. [laughs] Yes. Yeah. Very much so. As we all try to beat the drum of how good Oregon wine is, it's [laughs] nice to- Right...
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nice to have you do what you do. [laughs] I, I enjoy doing it. Yeah. It's such a pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Cool. Anything else? Uh, I think, I think that's it. [laughs] Okay.
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Well, I wanna thank you for so much for your time today. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Yep. Awesome. Yeah.
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[upbeat music] Thank you for joining me on this flavorful voyage through the world of wine on the Wine Notes podcast.
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I've been your host and guide, AJ Winesel, and it's been an absolute pleasure sharing these captivating stories with you. But alas, like the last sip of a fine vintage, our time together must end.
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But don't fret, my wine-loving friend, the cellar doors of the Wine Notes podcast will always remain open, waiting for you to return and explore new conversations, stories, and musings from the captivating people behind the magical world of wine.
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Before you go, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and don't forget to leave a sparkly five-star review to help spread the word.
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Until our glasses clink again, remember to savor life's moments, and let the spirit of wine and camaraderie linger on your palate.
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Cheers, and as always, may your wine glass be full, your heart be light, and your journey be delightful. Thank you again.
