INTERVIEW CLASSIC: Justin Credible gives wrestler's perspective on adjusting to wrestling without fans in attendance, safety concerns, more

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Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wide Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic,
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where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers.
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Five years ago.
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This week, I was joined by former ECW champion Just
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Incredible PJ.
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Piloco aka Aldo.
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Montoya, going way back to the WF in the nineties,
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and I wanted to get his opinion on how wrestlers
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are going to have to adjust their style when matches
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were taking place during COVID without fans. Also insights from
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him on safety concerns he'd have as a wrestler when
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it comes to coronavirus, the complete shutdown of the indie
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scene indefinitely and the impact of that, Ideas for how
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to continue national cable shows without crowds. He also shares
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what Vincent Manon was like during his days as Alda Montoya,
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the strengths and weaknesses of the AW in Rings style
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early in aw's run, and the quality of the shows themselves.
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His thoughts on the New Jack Eric Couliss controversial incident
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that ultimately delayed ECW getting on pay per view, and
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his experiences with Nwjack, the potential of the impact players
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him and land Storm, and more real fun discussion almost
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an hour and a half here from five years ago
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this week at the beginning stages of the pandemic. So
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glad Justin was able to join me and give that
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wrestler's perspective on the big changes in adjustments that wrestlers
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are going through because of COVID.
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So here we go. This originally dropped on March thirty first,
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twenty twenty, and it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
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Podcast Five years Ago Interview Classic for Wednesday, April second,
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twenty twenty five.
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Now PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for Wade's interview with one
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of pro wrestling's newsmakers.
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All right, I'm happy to have a returning guest with program.
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It's been too long, PJ Pilaco, known too many as
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Aldo Montoya and too even more.
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It's just incredible. PJ. Welcome back.
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Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, man.
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It's been a long time, it has and you're one
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of my favorite people to talk to about about professional wrestling.
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And I think people who haven't heard you before on
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the show we'll understand why.
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Soon it all goes well, PJ. No no pressure.
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And no pre no no added pressure.
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So first thing I want to talk about is empty
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arena wrestling and get a wrestler's perspective on this, both
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from the idea of I mean, what it would be
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like to be a wrestler in an empty ring and
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get into that a little bit, but also what you've
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thought watching it on television and and how you think
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it fares as a product. So take it where you
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want and I'll jump in with some follow up and conversation.
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Sure, from a wrestler's perspective, it's it's it's it's really rough.
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I think people don't understand. People who haven't done it
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don't necessarily understand what the crowd really does for you
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as far as the adrenaline rush and just being in
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the moment. You know, sometimes you don't A lot of
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times you don't feel the stuff until you get to
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the back because your adrenaline is so high and your
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emotions are so high, and as a performer, the crowd
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really helps feed the moment, you know that really, you
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know me, the way I was taught, the crowd really,
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you know, it teaches you where to go in the
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match because, you know, like a lot of us veterans,
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I'm twenty seven years in the business, we didn't call
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everything before the match, you know, so you'd go out
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there and a lot of it we would feel and
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depending on crowd reactions. So it's definitely challenging to me.
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It would feel like when I first started, or even
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when I was helping run some wrestling schools in the
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local areas, going out there cold, everything just hurt a
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hell of a lot more So that's, you know, and
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you're more prone to injury, I think personally as well,
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and from a fans point of view, just watching the product,
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it just man. I was watching a w the other
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night because I do a review show on Fridays with
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Vince Russo, and just watching it and I forgot what
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might have been the Kenny Omega match, whatever match he
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was in. It just looks, man, a lot of stuff
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you could just see right through and and still there
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instead of this is where the lessons I learned, especially
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from guys like Pat Patterson. When you fire up, you're
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supposed to fire up to your opponent, like you're angry
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at your opponent, And I still see the guys firing
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up to an empty arena, you know, and looking towards
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the people like it's you know, there's people out there.
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So it's really, uh, it's very challenging. I give every
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all the guys and gals a lot of credit for
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doing what they're doing, but it's it's very challenging on
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both ends. Really.
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I've I noticed even on the very first empty arena
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show smacked out a few weeks back, where Bailey walked
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out in her instinct in the middle of her promo
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aimed at Triple H and Michael Cole if I'm over right,
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was when she said something to look at the crowd
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for feedback and you know, to as a heel, you know,
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act disdainful towards their reaction or hopeful that she'd get
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heal heat.
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And it didn't.
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Even seem to strike her as not really work like
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the wrong thing to do, because wwe have built and
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this isn't like an individual insult of Bailey. She is,
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you know, in a way, just the guinea pig for this,
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you know, the first person who happened to go out
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there and have to talk with Sasha. But they're so programmed.
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It seems to work a certain way in the ring
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and work promos a certain way. And you talked about
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it with in that Kenny Sammy match, and it started
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for me as an observer of wrestling to notice how
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much I think a lot of what wrestlers do in
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the ring has turned into a routine they do where
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there's a disconnect between them and the emotions that would
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lead them to do it in the first place, which
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is that bond with the crowd. And I wonder and
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I'm hopeful that when we come out of this that
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the wrestlers who have performed in front of empty venues
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will actually come out of it better for it, because
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it'll create a more authentic and effective connection with fans
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that people watching on TV will sense in the future.
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Is there some hope in that.
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Does that make sort of sense that being disconnected and
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then reconnected can make that reconnection more organic and genuine
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going forward?
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It certainly should. I certainly, you know, especially if I
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was in the position that a lot of these guys
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and gals are in, I would certainly make that observation
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because you know, it really goes to show how much
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it means to be able to work the crowd and
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to really have that authentic response. And really, you know,
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instead of being like you said, and you hit the
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nail on the head, programmed to work a certain way,
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to respond a certain way, really should give you an
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open palate to be able to take other suggestions and
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to maybe do things a little differently. I mean, Jericho
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does it masterfully. You know, he's been around for a
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long time, I'm you know, and he's always a pleasure
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to watch, and you know, he handles it perfectly. And
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I think these guys and gals should should really benefit
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from this when things come back to normal.
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You talked about feeding on a comeback, and that's the
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stuff that I'm fascinated by because it helps me watch
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wrestling and sea specific things I might not have noticed otherwise.
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One thing that I noticed on this and it brought
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up the Kenny Sammy match from last week, is there
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there were pauses in the match after you know, a
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double collision or a comeback, where one guy's exhausted, the
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other guy hits hits a move, they're both slow to
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get up, and with a crowd, there's a cadence and
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a feedback loop that fills the void while wrestlers are
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down and waiting to get up. And they didn't. That
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didn't It felt weird. It almost felt like they were
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hitting the pause button in the match without the crowd
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or responding, and that have been flow of energy. I'm
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watching and I'm like, if this goes on for another
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two to six months, it could be shorter longer than that,
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who knows. Nobody knows, but two to six month seems
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to be a pretty It probably captures eighty five percent
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of the range of the likelihood here.
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What is there as you watch?
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Are there adjustments that you think you'd be making right now,
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just in terms of how you work. Are there things
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you would include or exclude in terms of pacing and
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spots and strategies to tell a story, to adjust to
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the fact that you don't have that crowd kind of
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filling in the gaps.
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I think, I mean, that's a tough question because I've
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never had to do it, but I would. I would
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personally keep it a lot more simple than they are.
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They're just almost working their matches business as usual, and
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I think you really must consider stuff like double downs
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and stuff where like you really need the crowd to
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to you know, because that's the whole point is like you're,
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you know, the crowd's kind of help in the baby
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face come to life, given them that Hu Hulk cup
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energy so to speak, you know, or whatever. You know.
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I would just work a lot simpler and maybe cut
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a lot of those things out. I don't know necessarily
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what they would be, but a lot of those I mean,
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I would certainly say possibly a quicker pace, not not
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necessarily do as many crazy things, you know, just really
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simplify it, you know, simplify what they do in the
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ring and go from there. Because I don't know what
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the response is at home. You know, it's really hard
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to gauge, you know, because you could always tell if
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a match is over at least with the live crowd,
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and you know, it's just really hard to gauge for me.
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But I would just simplify things if I was them.
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We're about to go to a commercial break. Why let's
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Yeah.
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Yeah, we've we've learned as viewers, and I think wrestlers
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are learning.
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Who have who? Yeah it?
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Because I mean, obviously you guys train in empty warehouses
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or empty gyms in ranks and you practice spots and
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you learn to take bumps, and you learn new moves.
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And all that. It's not like it's unprecedented.
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But to do like I mean, when you were training
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to be a wrestler, did you do full fledged matches
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where it was just you know, the trainer looking at
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you guys, or maybe some other people who were in
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that training school with you.
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Well, I was trained by the Hearts in ninety two,
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and the way we did it was we actually did
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very little of that. We were always taught. We were
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taught the basics, you know, basic holds, basic chain moves,
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the safe way to take proper bumps, safe way to
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give bumps. But the other stuff you learned just by working.
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We kept a very old school. I mean the first
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ten matches I had were in Calgary, and that's where
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I learned, believe it or not, the bulk of the work.
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You know, My fourth match ever was with Chris Jericho.
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My eighth or ninth match was against land Storm, So
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I had a bunch of good guys to work again.
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So that's where I really learned a lot of the stuff.
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And I think we had a couple of you know,
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maybe once or twice we had, you know, reheard some
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spots and just like maybe five minutes in the ring.
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But it was very organic, very you know, and I
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almost think that's again the way I think it should be,
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is almost kept very organic and simple because without the crowd,
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you really I almost feel like they're they're wasting They're
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wasting their moves, and they're wasting the opportunity because the
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crowd at home is is is not going to pop
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the way that the live crowd. And I know they're
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working towards the live crowd, of course that's the important thing,
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but it really, I mean, it's just to me, it's
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just very weird, not you know, it's I would almost
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I would almost prefer to see more packages, more vignettes
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than wrestling. I would keep it down. You know. Ro's
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hard because you know, and I know they're doing classic matches,
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but they have three hours to fill. If I was
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aw I would probably do one to two matches tops,
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and let the wrestlers talk. I mean, let us find
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out who these characters are, what their motives are. I mean,
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they do great pieces when they do them, like the
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Darby Allen stuff and so forth. I just think, you know,
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sit down style interviews with Jim Ross and really take
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00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:41.360
this time to you know, backstage stuff, even confrontations backstage.
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Keep it, you know what I mean. Don't force it
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the way I think a lot of these organizations are
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forcing empty arena matches.
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I think on Raw last night they had the one
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six man tag that went a good length and then
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two quick squash matches. And I think squash matches work
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00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.639
better in this environment. And nothing works great in this environment,
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but squash matches work better in the sense that you're
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just there to get over you know, a finisher or two,
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you know, a couple of signature moves and dominate and win.
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And I think, I mean, you know, there's a whole
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issue should they.
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Even be doing this, And we can get into that
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in a moment, you know, should they be having wrestlers wrestle.
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But if we just stipulate to the fact that that
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decision was made and analyze how they're doing it, I
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actually think WWE's adjusted well the idea of having in
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a three hour show two best of matches, two matches
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from the library that are big time matches, two squash matches,
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one semi lengthy match that is new and quote live
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you know, a first run match along with what you
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just said, video packages, sit down interviews, stand up interviews,
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lean against the ropes interviews is in Kevin Owen's case.
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And I actually think they found for me a sustainable format.
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None of those are perfect best of matches or you know,
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library matches.
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Ah, we've seen it before.
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How many people want to watch just constant replays but
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empty arena matches that are lengthy.
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Boy, that's tough on the wrestlers.
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And they're leaning towards multiperson matches because at least the
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00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.360
other wrestlers can create noise and energy. And I get that,
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00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.600
and have a manager ringside and a color commentator and
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add energy. But you can't do three hours of that
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either because it's empty arena wrestling and you can't just
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do all talking, or pretty soon people who tune in
317
00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:19.679
for wrestling tune out. I actually think I have to
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give them credit. I mean for the limitations that they
319
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have in the pros and cons of each I actually
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think for a three hour show, which would probably would
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00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:28.960
just re reduced to two hours for this span of
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time to be honest or permanently, I think they found
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a good formula and p I mean it kind of
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seems like what you said, they you would like to
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00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.919
lim to lean on for the most part, Ron smackdon
326
00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:41.960
are doing that at this point.
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00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.200
Yeah, I think they've you know, Rob has done the
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best that they could. I mean, you know, three hours
329
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.919
is hard to fill anywhere. I mean you're really giving
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00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.279
almost a pay per view every Monday if you really
331
00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.840
think about it. Yeah, I mean time wise, so that's
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a huge amount of time and a lot to ask
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00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.360
from everyone. So yeah, I think they've got it down
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00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.480
to the best that they can right now. They're certainly
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telling the stories the best that they can. It's certainly
336
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:11.279
going to be interesting. What wreussell Meania is going to
337
00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.079
look like, Oh, I mean that's you know, this is
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00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:18.720
you know, it's not gonna hurt business, I don't think,
339
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.640
because it's just you know, fans are fans, and they're
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00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:23.759
going to watch whoever has the network. I don't know
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00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.319
how many buys they're going to get, but it's going
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00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:28.759
to be interesting. And from what I understand, they're going
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00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.079
to have, you know, the Boneyard Matches is obviously on
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another set. They're going to do a couple of different
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things at different places, which is very smart. But two
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00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.440
nights I find that awfully odd.
347
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.319
They had a choice to run a six hour show
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on one night or two roughly three hour shows on
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two nights. I'm fearful they're going to run two four
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00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:52.119
and a half hour shows on two nights.
351
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:57.160
But to me, cutting it back to one really good.
352
00:17:57.759 --> 00:17:58.680
I should say really good.
353
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One well curated two hour and fifty five minute event
354
00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:08.279
and cutting your losses and not stressing, you know, not
355
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.160
putting a stress on everybody involved, and tried to keep
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00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.079
people's interest. Without that crowd energy would have been smarter.
357
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.680
I think Vince was looking for a catchphrase. It's a
358
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:19.960
resumingia so big it had to take place on two nights.
359
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.079
And they have the logistical freedom to do that this year,
360
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:23.880
which they don't normally, because when you announce the show
361
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:25.559
ahead of time, people buy tickets, they show up, they
362
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:27.640
only plan to be their Sunday. You can't just go, hey,
363
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:29.160
by the way, that show you paid to see half
364
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:30.759
of it's going to be on Saturday, flying a day
365
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.519
early and pay for more, pay you know, buy another ticket.
366
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.720
So they had the logistical ability to do it. I'm
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00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:38.720
for them, splitting into the two nights rather than doing
368
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.200
one six hour show. But ideally they would have just
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cut back a bunch and said sorry, everybody doesn't get
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00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.079
to be on Wrestumenia this year, and had something that
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00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.359
resembles more raw in length. That would have been I
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00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:54.200
think probably the wisest choice, because I think by night two,
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00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:58.119
even like you say, peach the pretap matches in different sets.
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00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:00.519
I mean, maybe they can shake this up enough it
375
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:03.559
stays interesting. But it's it's it's going to be a
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00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.240
woral challenge this weekend, and I mean it's unprecedented.
377
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.680
It's going to be fascinating to watch.
378
00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.400
I wish they would have just kept it to one
379
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.039
Sunday night, three and a half hours, honestly, because I
380
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.960
think WrestleMania normally it goes way too long for my taste. Yeah,
381
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.319
and I think for a lot of people. But whatever,
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00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.000
I mean, I don't know. I don't know where they
383
00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:24.599
get that time too, Like, where is it in the
384
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:26.759
contract that they have to go X amount of hours?
385
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.079
I don't understand, Or is it just that they want
386
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.440
to get everybody in on WrestleMania.
387
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.440
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts
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00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.680
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389
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00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.039
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391
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:50.519
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392
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:54.440
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past
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00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.559
and the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
394
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.839
such as the We Love Liger series, celeb even glorious
395
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.960
career of Juician thunder Lighter and Our Eye was There
396
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.400
when shows where our guests will join me to talk
397
00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:09.000
about a classic bout that they were in attendance for.
398
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.160
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399
00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:17.000
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405
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:42.599
I think part of it is they, I mean, it's
406
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:44.880
why are they having two shows on two nights or
407
00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:46.200
why does the show have to be six hours of
408
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:46.799
everybody on it.
409
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:48.519
I think they just want everybody to be on it.
410
00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:50.359
Because it's WrestleMania and it's got to be bigger than
411
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.960
anything else, and that mindset is still there. And then
412
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.720
also hours of engagement on the network. It's like, I mean,
413
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.599
for a while, that was their breaking point. Oh, in
414
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:00.960
this year's WrestleMania, you know, compared to last year and
415
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:03.160
the year before, we had X number of hours of
416
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.839
engagement on the network, and that was like a talking
417
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.880
point that got them this ephemeral twenty four hour good
418
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.440
press in the Wall Street Journal and media media entities
419
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:13.880
that ultimately just it went poof and didn't matter. What
420
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:15.480
mattered is how much money to you have coming in?
421
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.559
And these longer shows have hurt the pay per view
422
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.119
brand for WWE, because I mean, think of last year.
423
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:24.759
I watched it last night again, the crowd was exhausted
424
00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:27.359
for that women's match that headlined, and they were looking
425
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:29.079
at their watch going I'm going to miss the subway,
426
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.680
and WWE self centeredly just self indulgently ran the show
427
00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:34.359
way too long.
428
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.960
And so yeah, I mean, I mean you're.
429
00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.119
Taking and you're taking away from the wrestler's moments. Yeah,
430
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.920
you know, like I said, instead of having the whole
431
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.799
crowd go nuts because it was a three and a half,
432
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:50.759
possibly even four hour show at the end, you're having
433
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.079
a crowd that's completely dead, sitting on their hands and
434
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.920
they just want to get the heck out of there. Yep,
435
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.640
you know. So you know it's what it is. It's
436
00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.119
a double edged sword. But another thing that I was
437
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.880
I had a great point I was going to make, darn.
438
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:06.400
But anyways, like.
439
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.200
The show, crowds, tired, self indulgent matches go along, I'm
440
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:10.839
trying to trigger.
441
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:14.839
Yeah, I completely lost. I had somewhere to go with it.
442
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:16.000
But anyways, I'll get it back.
443
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:16.640
Yeah.
444
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.279
But yeah, I mean right now, I just I just
445
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.839
think WWE has to really uh oh here, here's what
446
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.480
I was going to say. I don't think they have
447
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:29.160
the star power either. This WrestleMania card does not excite
448
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:33.720
me one bit one bit. Normally they spice it up
449
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.000
with some legends or somebody coming in. I mean, to me,
450
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:41.559
I don't really care to see what is it seth
451
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.640
Rollins versus Kevin Owens. I'm not thrilled to see that.
452
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.359
I mean, that's to me something I could see on
453
00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:49.359
Raw on any given Monday. A lot of the stuff
454
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:51.119
is that way. The only thing that the kind of
455
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:56.920
interests me a little bit is aj Styles and the Undertaker.
456
00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:59.400
I mean, you know, Brock is Brock, and he's going
457
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.079
to do what Brock does. I mean, what else is there?
458
00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:06.119
What else is there that's kind of sticking out? Oh?
459
00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:07.759
Is Goldberg? Is Goldberg working?
460
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:10.279
Yeah, I'm avoiding spoilers on it, but they had Goldberg
461
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.680
rain scheduled and Rains backed out and so apparently there's
462
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.359
a substitution. And I'm trying to avoid hearing what happened
463
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:18.519
at the time because I'm just very anti spoiler at
464
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:19.160
this phase of my.
465
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:20.880
Wrestling coverage life.
466
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:25.079
So but yeah, I mean, the you know Lesner Drew
467
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.000
is is top gets top billing right now in w
468
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.359
B dot com, and that's gonna be weird, you know.
469
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.319
I mean, if Drew wins, what kind of victory is
470
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:36.359
that to have this crowning achievement to be the most
471
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:38.920
convincing person to beat Lesner, you know what I mean,
472
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.240
Like they've built him up as this might be the
473
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.079
guy who takes over for the Chicago Bulls as the
474
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.279
you know king of what he does or takes over
475
00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:50.119
for the New England Patriots as a king. Would they've
476
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:53.119
built They've built Drew successfully that way, and Drew carries
477
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:54.960
himself well that way, and it could be in front
478
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.519
I know, crowds. So I'm thinking, based on the fact
479
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:00.279
that last night on the Go Home Show with no
480
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.400
Drew promo, that Drew isn't winning because I don't think
481
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:05.640
you have a babyface about to win a title from
482
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.440
a heel who's really good at promos, and you have
483
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:10.519
a show that's heavy on promos and you don't include
484
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.000
him talking like to me that instinctually, does that tell you, hey,
485
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.079
he's probably not winning.
486
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:19.039
Uh? I mean, it's it's certainly an indicator, you know,
487
00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.359
you can chalk it up to you know, but they're
488
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.079
very good at this. I mean, they calculate everything. So
489
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:28.559
I don't think it was something that they just forgot
490
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:30.640
to do or didn't think about doing. You know, they're
491
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.000
very good at what they do. They're very calculated. So yeah,
492
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.160
I mean I would like to see Drew when I
493
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:37.559
think he had the momentum going in, but like you said,
494
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:42.319
without that crowd there, it also seemed very flat. It
495
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:46.240
just it's just I always look forward as a fan
496
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.440
as a viewer to watch WrestleMania, you know. And also,
497
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:51.759
you know, we'll talk about this maybe a little later,
498
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.119
you know. I mean the bulk of the way this
499
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:59.200
hurt the indie scene because all those shows that are
500
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.000
run in that area during wrestling your weekend. The money
501
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:06.559
lost by all the independent promoters and wrestlers is devastating.
502
00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:08.839
I mean, this is really you know, at the end
503
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:10.880
of the day, I don't know how much it hurts
504
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:14.799
hurts Vincent Man's Gate, of course, but I don't know
505
00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:17.079
how much it hurts his pay per view and you know,
506
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:21.920
network stuff. So I mean, this is really, this is unprecedented,
507
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:24.519
you know, and it really really hit it a horrible time.
508
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:27.839
I mean, it's horrible either way, but for pro wrestling,
509
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:28.720
it really is bad.
510
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:31.880
Let's actually take just a quick second to break away
511
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.000
from this topic and talk about you and what you've
512
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.680
been up to. For people who have listened to me
513
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.720
interview wrestlers for the past ten years here on the
514
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:42.839
show in various incarnations, they've heard a lot from you,
515
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:44.960
but not a ton lately. So it's kind of a
516
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.000
good time for you to just catch people up on
517
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:49.400
what you're up to. We talked before we started recording
518
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.759
about it a bit, and I think it's a good
519
00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:54.039
chance for you to kind of get into your bookings
520
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:57.279
too and how those are going away. There was a point,
521
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:00.200
you know, I don't know, roughly five years ago when
522
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:04.359
you said that you were retiring and done kind of
523
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.039
catch us up on what you've been doing and the
524
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.240
path that you're on and how the lack how the
525
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:10.880
cancelation of mini shows is affecting you too.
526
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.839
Well. I mean, I certainly wanted to going back to
527
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.359
the retirement thing that was that was one hundred percent legitimate.
528
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:20.039
I really had wanted to. I just didn't, you know,
529
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:24.599
the things were not happening for me financially, and I
530
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:28.039
found it very hard to juggle a regular job in wrestling,
531
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.200
especially where I live in the Northeast, because you know,
532
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:33.359
the last time I had a job working in the
533
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.799
kitchen at an olive garden, that got all over the
534
00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:38.720
internet and kind of, you know, it was very disheartening,
535
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.920
you know, because you're trying to make an honest living
536
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.279
and still take indie bookings. So I was just like,
537
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.920
you know, what I think wrestling is, you know, I'm
538
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.519
past my prime. I don't see myself getting a job anywhere.
539
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:51.839
You know, the indie scene wasn't really happening for me,
540
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:55.480
so I, you know, I decided to hang it up.
541
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:57.519
And then, of course, the minute you say that, all
542
00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:59.799
kinds of opportunities start happening. And I was starting to
543
00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:02.759
get booked quite regular, so you can't turn those down,
544
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:09.039
you know. But recently I had me Shane Douglas and
545
00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:12.200
the Sandman. We uh, we had this. We did a
546
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:16.680
wrestle caate I believe down in North Carolina and we drove.
547
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.720
I drove to Sandman's house in Philadelphia. We went to
548
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:23.160
pict Shane Douglas up in Pittsburgh. We drove it and uh,
549
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.480
we were having all this great conversation, and I said
550
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.440
to myself, God, if we could just you know, Jim
551
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:31.960
Ross is doing his one man shows, and Jake Roberts
552
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.359
and so many others. I was like, you know, we
553
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:37.240
don't have the name value. They have to do this independently.
554
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:39.680
But if I can get us three guys to tell
555
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:43.839
these stories on stage as part of an extreme package,
556
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.480
I talk about the days of ECW, you know, Shane
557
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.839
dropping the belt, the nw A belt and all this
558
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:53.000
other stuff and tell these cool stories that it could
559
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:56.000
be a thing. So I had we had booked. We
560
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.440
have three We had three shows booked. The first one
561
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:02.160
kicking off his tour was April eighteenth in Connecticut, which
562
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:05.000
due to the coronavirus, had to be canceled and is
563
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:10.000
being rescheduled. But right now we still have June twelfth
564
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.759
in Bigamton, New York, and June or no, June thirteenth
565
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:16.039
and Big into New York, I'm sorry. In June fourteenth
566
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:20.000
at the Carlson Comedy Club in Rochester and they were,
567
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.960
you know, they're offering us guaranteed money, which is great.
568
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.680
Costs are low because it's only three guys in a
569
00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:29.559
microphone and you know. And I went to see Mick
570
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.039
Foley in New Haven before this all happened, and he
571
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.920
brought me up on stage and kind of solidified the deal.
572
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:38.000
He brought me up for like twenty minutes to talk,
573
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:40.599
and I was like, you know what, we could really
574
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.839
do this, And tickets were going well. Things are going great.
575
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:46.599
So hopefully when the world gets back to normal, we
576
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.400
could reschedule the Connecticut date and continue to book on
577
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:54.680
because we were offered several deals in the Northeast, in
578
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:59.400
Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in New York. So that's kind of
579
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.559
what I'm doing. And unfortunately right now I have no
580
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.359
wrestling bookings for the future, so I'm putting an application.
581
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.160
Really that's what I'm doing right now, you know. But
582
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.039
hopefully this tour, when everything gets back to normal, will
583
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.599
will be something that will, you know, be cool and
584
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:18.079
we'll make us some money.
585
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.799
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
586
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:25.599
with ads and plugs remove, the weight Keller Prosing podcast,
587
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.519
Weight Keller prossing post shows and the PW Torch daily
588
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.599
cast throughout the week with ads and plugs remove, plus
589
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:35.039
a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just
590
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:37.119
four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check it
591
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:42.119
out patreon dot com slash PW torch vip. That's patreon
592
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.039
dot com slash PW torch vip and you can also
593
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.759
upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon.
594
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.759
Let's uh go back to a variety things I want
595
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:56.519
to have about. I want to talk one more thing about,
596
00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:59.720
in particular about our initial conversation, and that is the
597
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:02.599
empty arena wrestling we focused on, But what about an
598
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.759
empty arena promo? I understand a lot of promos are
599
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:09.640
done empty arena. They're done at backstage with a microphone announced,
600
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:13.240
an interviewer hold holding the microphone, and ECW Paul Hayman
601
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.000
is very creative. I'm trying to think if I'm trying
602
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.240
to think of if ECW was the first company to
603
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.640
do as much in terms of backstage settings and a
604
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:25.359
single camera pointed at a wrestler.
605
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:27.519
I feel like that was.
606
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:30.759
That Hayman did a lot more of that than any
607
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:32.759
other territory I can think of right now. Did that
608
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:34.880
because it was so stand on a set with a
609
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.200
logo in the background, with an interviewer holding a microphone
610
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.799
for you, So you were part of that. I mean,
611
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:43.279
I can picture you doing promos in different settings. It's
612
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:47.519
just incredible. But in a ring staring at empty seats,
613
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.799
I've assume that feels different than more traditional kind of
614
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.400
backstage promo. Certainly not as different as try to work
615
00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:56.279
a whole match. But speak to that a little bit
616
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:58.599
and how you think wrestlers have done as far as echoes.
617
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.720
I think they've done okay. For me, it's almost business
618
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.440
as usual, they they rehearse their lines, you know, because
619
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.200
they don't have to live very much. It's pretty much
620
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.799
cut and dry what they say. So they've done a
621
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:15.000
good job. But I wish, I really wish that they
622
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.400
would take the opportunity of like what Paul did and
623
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:23.240
maybe even do pulp fiction style promos where you know,
624
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:26.440
you have a certain guy like piece it to some music,
625
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.000
have certain guys say certain things and kind of all
626
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.519
with a certain theme involved. You know, maybe you know,
627
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:36.680
if they're having a you know, a three way tag
628
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.880
team match or something at WrestleMania, to have each guy
629
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:43.039
talk thirty seconds in different locations, maybe outside a little bit.
630
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.759
I like, you know, when when people do stuff outside
631
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.200
or you know, in an alley way, you know, get
632
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.839
a little more creative that way. I rather see that
633
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:54.039
than because being in an empty arena when you're talking
634
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.400
just you know, you're really talking into the camera. So
635
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:59.799
it makes it feel to me, it makes it feel weird,
636
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:01.799
you know. I mean, I know they're doing the best
637
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:04.000
they can, but it makes it feel weird. And I
638
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.440
think they could really take more advantage from a production
639
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:10.920
standpoint of really getting creative. I mean, have somebody like
640
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.440
you know, sit up on the top balcony or open
641
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.039
the rafters talking for some you know what I mean,
642
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.119
Like anything like that would would at least grab my
643
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.119
attention more than a wrestler sitting in the ring talking
644
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.519
into the camera in front of an empty crowd. You know.
645
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.240
Yeah, the old pulp fiction montages. It's a good yeah,
646
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.160
a good reference point for Again, I think the key
647
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.880
right now is variety. I mean every tool you have,
648
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:39.880
use it. And since live pro wrestling on television, the
649
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:42.400
crowd is so important and you can, I mean, you
650
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.240
can point a camera at the ring and have fans
651
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:49.480
in a building and get away with very low production. Otherwise,
652
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:51.880
you know it, just the story tells itself. You got
653
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:54.160
wrestlers doing their thing and on the mic and in
654
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:55.279
the ring and the crowd reacting.
655
00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:56.440
You don't really need to do a lot.
656
00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:58.599
When you lose that crowd, you have to be super
657
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:02.039
creative and no one thing can be what you lean
658
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:04.720
on too much. Like you need that variety, You need
659
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:08.279
that bang bang bang, you know, cutaway and really the East,
660
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:11.559
the pre taped East original ECW shows would be a
661
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:16.279
good source of brainstorming for Tony Kahan and Triple H
662
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:18.599
and vinsic Man and everybody in their whole support teams
663
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.240
right now because E CW did get way more creative
664
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.319
with how they how Paul did those shows than any
665
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:26.240
other company to date.
666
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:31.839
Yeah, definitely, you know, and it's it's so it's I can't,
667
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:33.920
I can't. You know, it's so important when the crowd
668
00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:38.440
isn't there to to just you have to at least,
669
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:41.240
I mean, even if you fail, you have to try
670
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:43.599
something different. Like to me, I was talking to a
671
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:49.079
friend of mine who produced my documentary and he was saying,
672
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.079
I can't. I hate watching it because to me, it's
673
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:58.440
just it really exposes itself as bad acting. In the backstage,
674
00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:59.720
like you know what I mean, when you when they're
675
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:03.880
doing these these fights are exchanging verbiage back and forth,
676
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.200
it just looks and I think to a lot of fans,
677
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.119
because the crowd isn't participating, it looks like bad acting,
678
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:11.800
you know what I mean. I don't know if that
679
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:14.039
makes sense to you, totally, Yeah, yeah, it just looks
680
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:15.280
like bad acting. You know.
681
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:18.239
Well, I think even when there's a crowd sometimes it
682
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:19.239
looks like bad acting.
683
00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.719
But it really exposes you.
684
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.639
Know, And that's again, I I if something.
685
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:28.559
Good can come out of this aspect of of this
686
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.840
chapter in pro wrestling, it would be that, you know,
687
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:35.000
some things that get exposed without the crowd there to
688
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:40.639
help t help camouflage some of the weaknesses in the
689
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:43.199
approach that some wrestling companies and wrestlers are taking in
690
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:44.159
the ring and on the mic.
691
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:46.239
And I do think you.
692
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:49.320
Know there'll be in an appreciation and perhaps an organic
693
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.960
feeding off the crowd a little bit more going forward.
694
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:53.239
If if some good can come out.
695
00:34:53.079 --> 00:35:01.480
Of this, the the sustainability of of this going on.
696
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.280
Can you imagine in six months this still like wrestling
697
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:10.559
shows being produced on a weekly basis with this format,
698
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:13.119
do you have any brainstorms when you're watching these shows
699
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:18.760
of a different way to produce matches, then, well, we
700
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:20.519
don't have fans, so let's just do it that way.
701
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.239
I guess this weekend, we'll see, because that would be
702
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.519
had time and big stars in a budget to kind
703
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:26.960
of do things differently. But it has anything else kind
704
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.079
of crossed your mind as a wrestler and somebody who's
705
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:31.239
watched wrestling for so long, what if they have to
706
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:34.079
do this for six more months or longer. Are there
707
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:35.800
some ideas that you've had of how to make these
708
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:39.480
shows more as resting beyond airing old matches and having
709
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:42.480
you know, packaged interviews.
710
00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:47.000
I would turn it almost into a reality show. Yeah,
711
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.880
you know, really like make it a reality show almost,
712
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:55.000
you know, straight you know, have a match or two
713
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:57.400
if you have too. But you know, I don't know
714
00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:59.880
how three hours. It's hard to feel that way, but
715
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:04.000
I would, you know, AW probably have better success with that.
716
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.519
But just turn it into a reality show. Go into
717
00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:09.719
people's homes, you know, have them talk about like almost
718
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:12.800
like what the elite do in those YouTube videos. Something.
719
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.840
I'm just you know, brainstorming, spitballing here. I don't know,
720
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:19.840
you know, if that would work long term, but just
721
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.360
anything to kind of break with the norm because it's
722
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.519
going to get old quick. To me, it's already gotten old.
723
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.199
It's hard for me to watch, to be honest with you.
724
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.320
But yeah, I mean I don't know how long this is.
725
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:35.079
I mean, nobody could really predict. I mean, I don't
726
00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:37.159
think six months is going to be the case, hopefully,
727
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.360
but you know, at least for the foreseeable the next
728
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:42.920
couple of months where this is going to have to happen,
729
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.320
you know, and especially how WWE has so much television
730
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:50.679
time to fill. It's going to be very very interesting
731
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.639
how they do it. But I would literally start just
732
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:56.119
doing you know, I don't even know if I'd have
733
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.360
a lot of it done in the buildings, you know,
734
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.320
Like I said, I have off set locations. You know,
735
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:04.239
I'm sure there's you know, stuff they could use, like
736
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:06.960
Paul used to do stuff in hotels. You know, we'd
737
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.599
be in a jacuzzie talking or you know what I mean. Whatever, yep,
738
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.639
and just make it like more of a reality show,
739
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.000
you know, and have longer segments, be about you know,
740
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:19.320
this one did this to me, and you know it
741
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:22.519
doesn't always have to come to blows, you know, and
742
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:24.559
just play it out that way if you have to.
743
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:34.360
I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
744
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.360
new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
745
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:40.760
Pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
746
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:42.960
noteworthy events dictate.
747
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.119
And I'm Chris Lansdowe join us as we covered the
748
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.360
ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an era.
749
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:51.840
We've no lack of talent, but I really need to
750
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:54.559
create some new styles you can stream. Then you seven
751
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.039
Stop podcasts now from Pro Wrestling Torch.
752
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.360
I know there's a lot of creativity on YouTube from
753
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:13.679
just people creating countdowns or best ofs, and I'm surprised
754
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.480
AW doesn't have enough to work with. But for WWE
755
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:19.480
on Ron's SmackDown, I don't see any reason with their
756
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:23.039
production staff and their budget that they aren't having something
757
00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:26.880
weaved into each show that goes is either within each
758
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.679
show or carries over from show to show that it's
759
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:33.239
like the top ten blank and they're going through their
760
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.840
library and it's like, I mean, they should be, you know,
761
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.280
the top ten moments from twenty years ago this week
762
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:41.639
on Raw and throughout the show, just have a ten
763
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:45.079
to forty five minutes snippet of something that's a top
764
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.320
that's a countdown from ten to one. To hold people's
765
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:52.000
interest and sprinkle legendary stars in great wrestling moments that
766
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:54.599
make you remember why you love wrestling, weave them into
767
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:57.119
the show coming in and out of breaks, and you know,
768
00:38:57.159 --> 00:38:59.480
like you don't have to just go to one long
769
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:01.840
match in order to have that crowd energy. You can
770
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:04.519
coming in and out of every break, have something that
771
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:07.320
involves a crowd reacting to a big star that just
772
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:11.280
feeds some energy, some star power, some nostalgia, and spurs
773
00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:14.760
conversation and debate online. So to me, like that's something
774
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.519
post WrestleMania. I think that they should look at the
775
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:20.960
top ten, you know, embarrassing moments for Michael Cole.
776
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.239
I don't know. I mean, like, there's one hundred thousand
777
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.119
better ideas than that, but there's no shortage of them,
778
00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:26.679
is my point.
779
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:29.840
The top ten rock insults of Kevin Kelly, I don't know,
780
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:34.079
the top ten finishers of the nineties, the worst ten
781
00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:36.440
finishing moves of the nineties move into the two thousands.
782
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:40.239
Like there's so much great library content for WWE once
783
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:43.719
they're past promoting WrestleMania, I think there's still a lot
784
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.400
of fun that they can have. I think they still
785
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:49.400
need to make it seem like the show. They need
786
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:51.440
to give the feeling that the show is first run
787
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:53.800
and live. I think the networks want that. I think
788
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:56.840
viewers want the sense I'm watching something that hasn't been
789
00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:00.440
seen before, not just a clip show. But if you
790
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:06.079
incorporate clips carefully but you still have some original wrestling,
791
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.480
I think you can keep the shows fresh and sustainable,
792
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.920
and I think people like you watching who are like, ah,
793
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.639
it's hard for me to watch. Oh, but it was
794
00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:15.559
kind of fun looking at those top ten moments in
795
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:17.280
that single category. And I want to see what they
796
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:18.159
come up with next week.
797
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.159
Yeah. I think that's actually, you know, a great idea.
798
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.360
I would like to see that almost like an MTV
799
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:26.599
style countdown, like the back in the day with you know,
800
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:29.840
local Superstar And like you said, yeah, like they used
801
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.559
to do that stuff. They used to have those Colisseum
802
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:35.599
home videos top ten most embarrassing, you know, matches and
803
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:38.519
you know, the best of this, And I think that's
804
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:41.800
a great idea, and there's ways to definitely do that
805
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.360
with the library they have forget it. I mean, you
806
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:48.079
could explore the nineties, the Attitude era, the two thousands,
807
00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:51.519
the hell. You could explore ECW if you really wanted to.
808
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.480
You could have a lot of fresh content that maybe
809
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.960
fans of today have never seen. And and like you said,
810
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.280
remember what we love pro about pro wrestling.
811
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:02.159
That's the thing.
812
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:06.079
Yeah, remind people through you know, showing them examples of it.
813
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:07.639
Yeah, and then where are they now? Features?
814
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:09.480
You know, I mean, w to be shure in touch
815
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:13.320
with you and many others who have been on telligence
816
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:15.920
before and you, like you said, go to their home.
817
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:18.800
If you know whatever it is, get have And I'm
818
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:20.719
not saying build a whole show around it, but it's
819
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.199
if you with two or three hours are thinking, man,
820
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:27.039
you know, how many times can we have a twelve
821
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:31.760
minute epic career highlight promo from Edge or Orton and
822
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:34.599
on and on these these long form interviews, which are
823
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.440
I think have been really good, but you can't do
824
00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:40.519
four of them per show every week. It's just that's
825
00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:44.800
not sustainable. So you know, you you go and find
826
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:48.239
people from the past who are who people have a
827
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.559
know and are familiar with, and you know, you get
828
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:55.000
them on Skype or whatever, and or you get a
829
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:56.760
camera and you stand six feet away from them at
830
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:58.360
their home or in their backyard.
831
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:58.719
And and talk with them.
832
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:00.800
And again that's that might fit three minutes of TV
833
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.880
time each week, but it's one more thing that's original
834
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.559
content that doesn't suffer because there's not a live crowd
835
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.519
that might bring some LABS fans back and spur interest
836
00:42:11.559 --> 00:42:12.519
in your library too.
837
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.440
Well, yeah, just with the library alone, you could show
838
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.480
a minute or two full of Clipse. And then we
839
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:21.039
have the technology nowadays with Skype and other tools that
840
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:23.920
you could have good video content, you know, good video
841
00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:27.000
quality to error and hell, you can kill ten minutes
842
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:29.880
right there. Yeah, you know, that's a segment. That's a segment,
843
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.599
you know, and you can do other things. You can
844
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:34.440
do a countdown, like you said, that's another segment or two.
845
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:36.960
You can break that up. I mean, yeah, there's a
846
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:38.639
lot of ways you can do that for a three
847
00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:40.199
hour show. Absolutely.
848
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.480
What do you think of.
849
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:48.000
The decision by ww ME and AW to keep running shows.
850
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.239
I've talked to wrestlers who are happy to go and
851
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:53.760
feel they're being taken care of, and I've talked to
852
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:57.719
wrestlers who feel like not enough is being done. Communication
853
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.760
hasn't been good from w B standpoint, shuring people if.
854
00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:04.639
You don't go, you won't be punished. How would you
855
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:05.280
feel right.
856
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:09.480
Now if like, I mean, cause it's it's there is
857
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:12.000
I'm kind of is for some wrestlers, it's like I
858
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:13.840
just I need the money and I need to make
859
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:15.840
sure that I look like I'm a team player, and
860
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.280
I fear that they get taken advantage of. And then
861
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:20.079
you have wrestlers like you know, Roman Reigns, who has
862
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:23.360
a very specific situation with as a cancer survivor with
863
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:26.800
an at risk immune system saying no, and you have
864
00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:29.280
other people Corey Graves, you know, not flying out to
865
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.119
be on color commentary, he won't be considered essential anyway,
866
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.960
But not knowing exactly all the details of how each
867
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.559
company is dealt with each wrestler, just in general, do
868
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:42.239
you feel comfortable watching wrestlers wrestle each other right now
869
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:46.719
knowing you can be carrying the virus and contagious and
870
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:50.360
not showing symptoms and spreading it for the sake to
871
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.760
a colleague or a camera guy, or a referee or
872
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:56.320
an interviewer, and you're doing it just for the sake
873
00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:59.280
of entertainment. Is that risk and trade off worth it
874
00:43:59.280 --> 00:43:59.760
in your mind?
875
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:04.840
Well, that's a tricky question, because look, that's always existed.
876
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.320
You know, even in the old days, they would ask
877
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:12.159
you to go, whether you're sick or hurt, you always
878
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:14.199
had to go. Or you know, even though they told
879
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.480
you you could stay home, that really meant if you
880
00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:18.920
stay home, you're not getting booked, or you're not getting
881
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:21.840
paid or something. I would hope that the WWE is
882
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.519
taking care of all of their talent first and foremost.
883
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:28.159
I don't know how AW works. Second of all, the
884
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:31.800
way I would I would do that. I mean, now
885
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.159
there's I think sufficient testing, and I'm sure the WWE
886
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:38.320
is big enough that could that they could have all
887
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:44.199
of their performers, camera crew, everyone tested first to make sure,
888
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:47.480
you know what I mean, take precautions. That would be
889
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.639
the best thing. I think. I don't know what, you know.
890
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:54.320
For me, the will always go on with wrestling. It's
891
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:57.920
amazing because the NBA, you know, major League Baseball, they
892
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:01.000
could all take the time. But WW for some reason,
893
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:03.679
is a different animal. I guess it's the Carnie in
894
00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:06.320
the whole thing, you know. And I think Vince is
895
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:08.719
taking you know, Vince's making money on this, on it
896
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:11.079
being the only show in town right now. I think
897
00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:14.159
they just signed a deal with Fox Sports to air
898
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:17.239
twenty two hours worth of programming on Tuesdays, I believe,
899
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:20.440
if I didn't read that wrong, So Vince is gaining
900
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:24.239
from operating and that's what they will always do. Do
901
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:27.559
I feel comfortable? I mean, I don't know. I don't
902
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:29.880
know how I feel really. I mean, would I probably
903
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:31.559
do it at this point in my life. I would
904
00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:35.360
have to, because financially, I need the money, but I
905
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:38.079
don't know where everybody else stands. But it depends politically. Look,
906
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:40.559
if Zach Ryder is asked to go, you better bet
907
00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:44.800
he's going to go. You know. It's kind of like that, unfortunately,
908
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.920
and Roman Reigns has a unique situation. But even if
909
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:51.800
he didn't have that unique situation of being a cancer survivor,
910
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:54.559
you know, even if he didn't go, they're not going
911
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:56.320
to get rid of him, you know what I mean.
912
00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:59.039
So I think I think a lot of it is
913
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:03.519
on an individual basis, And do I feel comfortable, I
914
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:04.719
don't know. I don't know.
915
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:07.400
You know, yeah, it's tough.
916
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:12.960
I mean, I I I hope that nobody nobody, uh
917
00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:16.960
you know, gets coronavirus who's on a wrestling roster or
918
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:19.800
especially part of the support team, who are you know,
919
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:24.519
have less in theory, have have less leverage to say no.
920
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:28.039
You know, I guess anybody could just claim they have
921
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:30.679
a fever and not show up and that would be their.
922
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:33.320
Way to get out of it. But you know, I
923
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:34.599
don't know, it's it's.
924
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:36.800
I think it comes down to an individual because then
925
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:40.119
it also comes down to a financial piece, because you know,
926
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:43.280
a lot of these guys have you know, different deals,
927
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.639
and you know, they all have lifestyles that they probably need.
928
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:48.760
You know, it's funny, man, when the when the well
929
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:51.559
runs dry, and that happened to me in two thousand
930
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.400
and one when I got let go. You have mortgages
931
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:57.199
that you can't afford with the regular job. And I
932
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:00.000
think people on the like you said, on the underneath
933
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:02.920
a little bit, they think about that stuff. They worry
934
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:05.119
about that stuff. Yeah, you know, so it's a very
935
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:07.159
tricky thing. I think the best thing, and I'm surprised
936
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:11.480
they haven't done this is have mandatory testing. Uh it's
937
00:47:11.599 --> 00:47:14.079
you know, I'm sure they can make it available for
938
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.280
them because they know people and they're very high up
939
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:20.039
in the political scheme of things that they can get
940
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:22.400
every athlete that is going to participate or going on
941
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:26.079
the road to get mandatorily tested and go from there.
942
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:29.760
Hopefully we're not far from that from test being available
943
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:33.679
enough for everybody to get right right now, if you're rough,
944
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:37.239
If wrestlers start getting tested and there's nurses and doctors
945
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.280
at hospitals who can't get tested, and they're on there too,
946
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:42.960
banking for masks, you know, politics or you know, whatever
947
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:45.400
is going on it's like it's a hottish hot button
948
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:48.239
issue right now, and you you've got to be careful
949
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:49.119
if you're wwe.
950
00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:51.440
I mean, the NBA has taken heat. How do you
951
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:52.440
guys all get tested?
952
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:52.719
Why?
953
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:54.400
Why do you You're not even in season and you
954
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:59.360
guys are getting tested. So now, yea, hopefully we're just
955
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.679
a few weeks or a couple months away from that
956
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:02.440
not being an issue.
957
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:06.280
It shouldn't be an issue to begin with. But yeah, yeah, okay,
958
00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:08.480
it's tough, No, no, it is.
959
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:12.559
It's it's one of the more complex, uh stories. And
960
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:14.639
I you know the people who say, oh, wrestling should
961
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.599
just be you know, shut down, cut and dry.
962
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:19.599
There's no way to do it safely. I don't think
963
00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:20.559
it's that cut and dry.
964
00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:22.280
That might be the right decision, but I don't think
965
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:24.559
it should obviously cut dry. I think there's a safe
966
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:27.199
way to wrestle. I mean, this isn't the NBA where
967
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:29.039
it's a dozen players on one team against a dozen
968
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.480
players in another team, and then one or two nights later,
969
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:33.840
they travel to another city and there's another twelve players
970
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.840
with a munch of assistant coaches, all interacting right near fans.
971
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:39.079
You know, wrestling is one on one or two on
972
00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:42.199
two or three on three, and it's not you know,
973
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:43.840
you know, don't necessarily.
974
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:45.840
Have to travel as a pack from city to city.
975
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:51.400
So there's a different logistic to it that that complicates
976
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:54.159
the simplicity of it. It doesn't mean the answer ultimately shouldn't
977
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:55.880
be the same, but it doesn't mean it should be
978
00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:57.079
just by defaults.
979
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.960
So, and I wonder too what the consequences would be
980
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:04.480
financially with the contracts on USA and so NOA too.
981
00:49:04.519 --> 00:49:07.480
I think they worry about that because that would be
982
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.880
a huge impact to their bottom line, I think with
983
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:13.599
the stockholders and all that stuff too. So that's another
984
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:15.960
thing that comes into play. That's what I wonder about.
985
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:19.760
I do too. Yeah, yep, you know. All right, let's uh.
986
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:23.400
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
987
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:27.000
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988
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:31.519
Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper copy.
989
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:34.519
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00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:37.079
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991
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.360
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992
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:43.119
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993
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:47.239
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994
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995
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996
00:49:55.159 --> 00:49:58.320
from screen time and settle in every week with a
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00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:01.360
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998
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.760
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999
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:07.760
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00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.960
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1001
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:18.119
week trial subscription pwtorch dot Com slash paper Copy. Let's
1002
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:22.199
shift to a more general discussion on AW and I'll
1003
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:26.639
introduce an email question sent in by JR.
1004
00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:27.840
From London.
1005
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:31.920
In five years, who do you envision being more successful
1006
00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:35.320
WWE or AW.
1007
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:42.559
Certainly WWE. I'm very glad. I'm actually a static that
1008
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:46.320
there's an alternative. Wrestling hasn't been on TNT in many,
1009
00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:49.880
many years, and I'm just happy there's an alternative. I
1010
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:53.079
think they are they are going to grow. I think
1011
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:56.599
they will eventually hopefully, you know, I don't know now
1012
00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:59.440
with this, but their numbers are almost up to one million,
1013
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:02.760
which is which would be nice. But I don't know.
1014
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:07.360
I don't see in five years AW catching WW. I
1015
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:10.239
just don't. They're too big of a machine. But the
1016
00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:12.400
numbers are quite alarming if you really think about it.
1017
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:16.639
In the grand scheme of things, you know, between two
1018
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:21.559
point three two point five AW is I mean they're
1019
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:23.599
far off, but not as far as you would think,
1020
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.880
if you know, with Matt Hardy coming in, and I'm
1021
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:30.440
sure they'll have other wrestlers and that's another thing, not
1022
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.639
to go back on the question, but they can do
1023
00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:34.519
like stuff like with the Matt Hardy thing too. That
1024
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:38.599
was so creative talking about the programming. But anyways, No,
1025
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:40.840
I don't think the WW. I think the w W
1026
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:42.639
will definitely be number one.
1027
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:46.920
So yeah, you talk about being a static for ae
1028
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:51.960
W and it's on TNT and it has like it.
1029
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:54.639
How do you feel different about AW compared to TNA
1030
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:57.960
when TNA launch Because T and A was you know,
1031
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:01.039
an idea that Jerry Jared had and to Jerry, you know,
1032
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:03.440
old Memphis promoter and the right hand man for vincmic
1033
00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:07.239
Man during vincement Man's trial steroid trial in the early nineties,
1034
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:11.000
he saw an opportunity when WW one under and I
1035
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:12.800
talked to him a lot while he was trying to
1036
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.639
figure out how to either buy WCW before it went
1037
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:19.480
under or start a new company. And the idea was, well,
1038
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:21.559
obviously those fans are out there, we just need to
1039
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:24.159
get that TV deal. And then they just ended up
1040
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:26.320
on you know, weekly pay per view and then an
1041
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:29.519
afternoon show. Eventually they made it onto network TV. But
1042
00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:33.760
years had gone by and they're just I even when
1043
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:36.320
Hulk Coogan and Eric Bischoff and Rob Van Dam and
1044
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:39.639
Jeff Hardy and they had this like you know, launched
1045
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:41.960
ten years ago on Monday Night where there was a
1046
00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:43.840
thought of maybe we'll have a new Monday Night Battle
1047
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:46.880
even then, and think there was anticipation for that.
1048
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:48.840
Those were big names involved in that.
1049
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:51.639
It didn't come close to how people feel about AW,
1050
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:54.960
and it didn't come close to the success that AEW
1051
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:58.360
is having relative to WWB ratings right now and the
1052
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:01.280
cable landscape. AW was more successful out of the gate
1053
00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:04.760
than TNA. Ever was why is that? Why is AW
1054
00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:11.840
succeeding earlier than t and A really ever did well.
1055
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:14.800
We were hitting a renaissance here and it all started
1056
00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:17.320
in Japan with the Bullet Club and you were seeing
1057
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:21.519
Bullet Club shirts and independent wrestling started to get really
1058
00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:25.400
good and really cool, and there were you know, these
1059
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.119
guys had sort of an aura behind them, and it
1060
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:32.360
was almost like, you know, wrestling for hipsters, you know,
1061
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:36.119
younger people in their twenties going out to these shows.
1062
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.000
So I think that is the big reason. It's you know,
1063
00:53:40.039 --> 00:53:42.320
I'm not saying it's like the coolest thing in the world,
1064
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:45.559
but it has become cool again and in some eyes,
1065
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:49.599
and it's okay to like wrestling, especially aew it's like,
1066
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:53.079
you know, I see it that way. I mean, you know,
1067
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.440
it's just I think people were wanting to see the
1068
00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:59.320
Bucks for the first time and Kenny Omega on the
1069
00:53:59.360 --> 00:54:02.199
Grand State Agent Cody, they were you know, they all
1070
00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:04.920
have this built in audience and with the success of
1071
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.639
their pay per views before they you know, all in
1072
00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:09.840
and all out right, you know, even before they were
1073
00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:13.800
aw it was just the perfect storm. And I think
1074
00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:16.360
that they're building on that and they're just trying to
1075
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:21.639
stay I think they're you know, they're happy being an alternative,
1076
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.280
and they really are an alternative because they do things,
1077
00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:27.039
whether I like it or not, very differently than WWE.
1078
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:32.280
And I think that's where like even WCW when they
1079
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:34.920
had success. They were putting on the cruiserweight matches with
1080
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:38.760
Guerrero Malenko, Ben Wah, you know, and all those guys
1081
00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:43.239
and Rey Jun Raymisterio and ECW was doing something, you know,
1082
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:45.719
because wrestling was so stale back then with all the
1083
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.000
cartoon characters in the WWF, the old WWF. ECW was
1084
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:53.800
doing something completely different, more of an old school wrestling.
1085
00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:58.679
So I think they're just they're more popular because they
1086
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:02.800
are giving fans something different, where with TNA they were
1087
00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:05.840
giving them the same stuff, just under a different brand.
1088
00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:08.679
And I think they had tainted the brand so much.
1089
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:10.519
They could have brought in anybody, it wouldn't have mattered.
1090
00:55:11.079 --> 00:55:13.480
That's good, Yeah, you know what I mean. No, No,
1091
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:15.440
it's really good analysis. I mean I do. I think
1092
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:18.719
I think the more app comparison is is Nitro to
1093
00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:22.760
a W rather than TNA to AW because the differences
1094
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.840
you point out, you know.
1095
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:26.760
TNA just you know yesterday at.
1096
00:55:26.719 --> 00:55:31.039
AJ Styles and chrisofor Daniels and Samoa Joe, but it
1097
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:33.639
was the X division and it was you know, I know,
1098
00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:35.480
and I know from talking to Jerry as A as
1099
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.480
a junior heavyweight himself, the idea was, yeah, yeah, we
1100
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:41.000
you know, we want to treat the cruiserweight title, the
1101
00:55:41.079 --> 00:55:43.679
junior heavyweight title as an equal to the heavyweight title,
1102
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:45.800
and they paid lip service to it, and at times
1103
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:47.760
I think framed.
1104
00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:48.039
It that way.
1105
00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:51.719
But it's still had the the whole thing still kind
1106
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:55.960
of reaked a little bit of Jeff Jarrett was wronged
1107
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:59.719
by WWE and Steve Austin and he really is a
1108
00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:01.519
central top star and.
1109
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:02.760
Now we're going to let him shine.
1110
00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:06.960
And that Jeff Jarrett, with all due respect, was not
1111
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.800
the nWo and he wasn't Bullet Club, No.
1112
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:13.639
And and Jarrett was never that over. I'm sorry, yeah,
1113
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:15.400
you know, as much as I like Jeff, yeah, and
1114
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:17.800
I loved working with him and for him, he was
1115
00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:21.239
just not that over, you know, totally.
1116
00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:25.840
And it sometimes is, you know, the wrestling for hipsters,
1117
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:28.880
you know, if you put it, you know, ae W
1118
00:56:29.119 --> 00:56:32.480
absolutely had that cool vibe. And it's about those, It's
1119
00:56:32.519 --> 00:56:35.440
about the Bellweather fans that the ones who are in
1120
00:56:35.480 --> 00:56:38.199
the crowd who are reacting to somebody like Orange Cassidy
1121
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:42.280
would not work on national television at all if you
1122
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:45.039
didn't have Rabbit fans who were the first in line
1123
00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:49.079
online to buy tickets reacting passionately to him in crowds.
1124
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:49.760
All of a.
1125
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:52.320
Sudden, a bunch of people sitting at home are going like,
1126
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.519
if Jeff Jarrett got that kind of reaction that Orange
1127
00:56:54.519 --> 00:56:58.239
Cassidy gets from AW crowds in certain cities, a lot
1128
00:56:58.239 --> 00:56:59.559
of people would be like, well, there must be something
1129
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:01.360
about this. If you're a guy don't get I'm gonna
1130
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:03.440
give him another chance, and then he'd have to deliver
1131
00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:07.000
with AW. When you get it with Keny Omegan, everybody
1132
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:10.119
along the whole roster. When those crowds show up and
1133
00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:12.840
they already have an investment in a connection with these
1134
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:15.719
AW wrestlers, the people at home are going, I don't
1135
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:17.079
know what's going on here, but I want to be
1136
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:18.559
in this. I want to I might be late to
1137
00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:19.760
the party, but I want to be at.
1138
00:57:19.639 --> 00:57:22.760
This party right exactly. And that makes that makes a
1139
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:24.920
huge difference, huge difference.
1140
00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:35.400
Are you a fan of the AW looking to sit back,
1141
00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:38.599
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
1142
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:40.960
your passion. Do you want to be topped off the
1143
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:43.400
ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the
1144
00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:45.840
heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a
1145
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:48.960
discussion on what AW is doing right and what they
1146
00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:51.880
could do to improve. Then join me Joel and me
1147
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:54.920
Greg for the All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on
1148
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:58.760
the PW torch Live Cast. Fee search PW torch in
1149
00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:01.920
your podcast app and sobscribe to PW torch Daily Cast
1150
00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:05.480
or streamer shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find
1151
00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:08.519
full details on the PW torch Daily Cast lineup at
1152
00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:20.000
pw torchdailycast dot com.
1153
00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:23.719
So you mentioned uh, I can't remember the exact phrase,
1154
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:25.760
but something about aw whether you like everything that you
1155
00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:29.239
see or not. Elaborate on what you've thought of of
1156
00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:33.559
ae W, the strengths and weaknesses, the good decisions and
1157
00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:36.679
perhaps some decisions that you question that they've made so
1158
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:38.880
far as you've watched Dynamite.
1159
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:44.880
Wow, that's a rough one. One thing. The one criticism
1160
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:48.639
I have, and it seems to be a constant, is
1161
00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:53.679
the matches are are all very good, you know, not
1162
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:57.039
all very good, but they're mostly good. The guys and
1163
00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:59.599
gals work really hard. The girls division is a lot
1164
00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:02.440
to be a lot to be said for. I really
1165
00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:05.159
do not like what they do with the ladies. I
1166
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:12.360
think it's weak at times, you know, subpar at best.
1167
00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:17.199
I just they look very sloppy their choice of talent.
1168
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:21.880
There's so many good lady wrestlers out there. I think
1169
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:25.400
they really. I don't know if it's because Rio is
1170
00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:29.559
dating Kenny Omega and so forth, they're just I don't know.
1171
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:31.960
I'm just not taking the vibe with the ladies. And
1172
00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:35.159
all of a sudden, Awesome Kong and Brandy Rhodes they
1173
00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:37.920
were a thing. Now I haven't seen Awesome Kong and
1174
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:40.239
Brandy's not even you know what I mean. It's like
1175
00:59:40.280 --> 00:59:42.480
one day she's a heel, one day she's with her,
1176
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:46.599
and now you don't even see her. My one thing
1177
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:50.119
is like they don't showcase the guys and gals that
1178
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:52.639
they want to get over, Like they'll be on one
1179
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:56.079
week off for two weeks on one week, Like there's
1180
00:59:56.119 --> 00:59:58.920
weeks I'll see Joey Janella. There's two weeks I won't
1181
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:03.000
see Joey Janella. Stuff like that. The matches are way
1182
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:07.159
too long for my taste. Some And then one thing too,
1183
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:10.000
is once you've seen one match, you've seen them all.
1184
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:12.400
To me, it's like you know they're gonna do a
1185
01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.480
ton of dives. You know they're gonna do Apron bump
1186
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:19.039
they're gonna kick out of everything. Nobody's gonna sell anything,
1187
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:24.400
and that's it, you know. Like I enjoy seeing Jericho,
1188
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:28.079
I enjoy seeing Cody. I enjoy seeing Kenny. Kenny's very
1189
01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:30.360
good at what he does. I mean good to great,
1190
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:33.360
you know, to be honest, But I like to see
1191
01:00:33.400 --> 01:00:35.880
a little bit of a mixed style. To me, it's
1192
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:39.679
like just too much car crash, you know, it always
1193
01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:41.880
seems like it's a car crash for me. I would
1194
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:45.400
like to see just more one on one maybe old
1195
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:48.400
school matches for me, for my taste. It's just to me,
1196
01:00:48.639 --> 01:00:51.000
I feel like I'm watching the same match over and over,
1197
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.280
and I watch it Wednesday Live and then before I
1198
01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:56.639
do the Vince Russo Show at ten am on Fridays,
1199
01:00:56.920 --> 01:01:00.360
I rewatch it because I forgot what I've watched, even
1200
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:03.800
though I've taken notes. So to me, it's having a
1201
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:07.719
hard time sinking in because somewhere, somehow they're not doing
1202
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:11.360
a good enough job at making me remember, you know,
1203
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:14.239
giving me moments to remember, you know what I mean, Like, wow,
1204
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:16.760
that was a great match. Well, sure you have tons
1205
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:19.559
of great matches, but they all seem to come across
1206
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:21.719
the same. So That's that's it for me.
1207
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:22.960
Yeah you no, No.
1208
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:26.679
I've had similar thoughts watching of the product as far
1209
01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:28.360
as the women's division goes, as far as the entering
1210
01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:30.760
style goes. There are times where I share those thoughts.
1211
01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:32.760
I also try to check myself and I think, wait
1212
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:38.199
a second, am I not listening or looking at the
1213
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:42.840
crowd eating this up? Am I hearkening for a style
1214
01:01:42.920 --> 01:01:46.840
that not that it's past, but that there's been an evolution?
1215
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:50.559
Because every era of wrestling is different than the previous era.
1216
01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:52.480
If you go back and watch the wrestling that I
1217
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:56.639
loved growing up, it just it doesn't translate today in
1218
01:01:56.679 --> 01:01:59.280
the same way. And and then I bounce back the
1219
01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:02.079
other way and go no way. Second, there's absolutely things
1220
01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:05.440
to be learned from the less is more psychology, the
1221
01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:08.880
brilliance of Jerry Lawler doing so little and getting so
1222
01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:15.000
much out of matches, and the selling of Nick Backwinkle
1223
01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:18.559
as a heel who just made every baby face look
1224
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:21.920
like a million bucks because he wasn't He wasn't popping up,
1225
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:22.920
but he also wasn't doing that.
1226
01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:25.559
So how do you struggle with that too? Going? Am
1227
01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:26.400
I am I old school?
1228
01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:29.199
And kind of said in my ways or am I
1229
01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:32.199
open minded to change, because I don't think everyone should
1230
01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:35.079
just just fold and go oh yeah, anything of the
1231
01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:37.320
crowd pops for I should just accept it's the way,
1232
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:39.760
it's the right thing to do, and give up my
1233
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:43.400
my thinking on what the more efficient effective style would be.
1234
01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:47.760
I I definitely would like to think I'm open minded,
1235
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:51.360
and I think I am. I enjoy a lot of
1236
01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:54.599
the fast paced matches. I just I would like to
1237
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:58.599
see just you know, because there comes a time where
1238
01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:01.119
there's going to come a time where you've seen it all,
1239
01:03:01.239 --> 01:03:04.039
done it all, and you're gonna just you know, you
1240
01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:07.960
got to pace yourself in anything, both in matches, and
1241
01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:11.039
then you're the way you present your matches over a
1242
01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:13.719
long term basis. I think fans are going to come
1243
01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:16.079
to a point where it's like, well we've seen everything,
1244
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:18.159
what are we going to see next? And there's not
1245
01:03:18.199 --> 01:03:19.960
going to be much left. I mean, you know, these
1246
01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:22.679
guys and gals are killing themselves as it is. They're
1247
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:26.039
hitting hard, and they're doing very dangerous things. I'm not
1248
01:03:26.079 --> 01:03:30.480
saying I'm not up to, you know, accepting the new style.
1249
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:33.119
It's just, man, I just wish they would be a
1250
01:03:33.159 --> 01:03:37.559
little more you know, you get listen. There nothing comes
1251
01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:41.360
with selling. There's nothing better than selling. There's you're doing
1252
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:44.679
these great moves, you're popping up out of everything, which
1253
01:03:44.719 --> 01:03:47.320
is fine false finishes, but then you're beating a guy
1254
01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:51.360
with a backslide. You know, stuff like that doesn't make
1255
01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:56.119
sense and there's nothing to me that you know. Even JR.
1256
01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:59.559
When he's commentating, he has he has a hard time
1257
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:01.639
holding bag boy. If you really listen to some of
1258
01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:03.960
his comments, let you here, you know what I mean.
1259
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:06.679
So there was at that time, a couple weeks back
1260
01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:08.440
where there was a dive where one guy leaped off
1261
01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:10.239
the top rope and three guys were there to catch him,
1262
01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:12.800
and he was like, Wow, how convenient those three happened
1263
01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:14.400
to be standing there, right?
1264
01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:16.360
Yeah, So I mean there's a way, listen, there's a
1265
01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:18.440
way to do it all. There's a way to innovate
1266
01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:22.760
and do these new cool things. But there's also a
1267
01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:25.840
way to tell stories, and that telling stories. The way
1268
01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:28.480
to tell stories can change all the time. I'm not
1269
01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:32.119
stuck to one idea, but I would just like to see,
1270
01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:35.480
I guess, a little bit more of an eclectic blend,
1271
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:38.119
not always the same stuff all because it seems like
1272
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:40.400
I'm watching the same show all the time.
1273
01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:46.360
Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AEW
1274
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:49.119
Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
1275
01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:50.960
thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
1276
01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:54.760
to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at
1277
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:59.719
pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at petw torch dot com.
1278
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:01.679
There's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you
1279
01:05:01.679 --> 01:05:04.119
want us to address on our main podcast during our
1280
01:05:04.119 --> 01:05:07.960
mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at
1281
01:05:07.960 --> 01:05:11.480
pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know
1282
01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:13.760
what you think of what we're saying, and let us
1283
01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:15.840
know what you want us to talk about and ask
1284
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:21.679
us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com.
1285
01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:24.840
I think if you use a museum analogy, and why not.
1286
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:28.639
Museums have tons of art and sculptures in the basement
1287
01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:31.840
that is off that the public can't see, and there's
1288
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:34.800
a curator who says, all right, here's our theme, here's
1289
01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:36.960
our artist, here's our whatever. And I don't know a
1290
01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:38.719
ton about museums, so someone can correct me if I'm
1291
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:41.599
wrong on this, But they you know, new artists sends
1292
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:43.400
in art or they have stuff from the basement that
1293
01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:45.840
they rotate in and they want to keep people coming.
1294
01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:48.880
And the curator decides what do I feature and how
1295
01:05:48.920 --> 01:05:51.960
do I feature it, and hard choices are made because
1296
01:05:52.199 --> 01:05:56.000
you don't want a wall with crammed with seventeen things
1297
01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:01.079
when three will stand out more. And that's what I
1298
01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:03.159
think of when I see a lot of the modern
1299
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:08.559
style wrestling is it needs a curator, it needs a PJ. Piloco,
1300
01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:11.639
somebody who says, wait a second, I watched last week's match,
1301
01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:15.639
and trust me, you can do one third as much,
1302
01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:19.400
sell a little longer, change the pace and the pops
1303
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:22.679
are going to be bigger, your body's going to sustain itself,
1304
01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:25.320
and you're going to tell a better story that isn't
1305
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:27.280
going to get it this is awesome or fight Forever chance,
1306
01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:31.920
but instead an actual emotional reaction to a near fall,
1307
01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:34.519
because people aren't just looking for spots and going, oh
1308
01:06:34.519 --> 01:06:36.159
my god, I can't believe you did it, but they're
1309
01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:39.280
invested in the winner or loser, in the ramifications of it.
1310
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:43.000
And to me, if you curate the aw style with
1311
01:06:43.079 --> 01:06:46.079
the mega talent in frankly, any style right now. There's
1312
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:49.400
so much talent out there, but you curate it better,
1313
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:51.400
like someone who's in charge of a museum, going, We're
1314
01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:53.039
not just going to shove everything onto the wall that's
1315
01:06:53.079 --> 01:06:54.760
in the basement. We're going to pick and choose and
1316
01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:57.239
space it out yet up with a better entering product
1317
01:06:57.519 --> 01:06:59.559
and a more sustainable product long term.
1318
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:01.960
I agree. I agree. And then they get still and
1319
01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:05.480
everybody could still do their thing. I'm not saying that, yeah,
1320
01:07:05.559 --> 01:07:07.280
you know, they could all do their thing, and then
1321
01:07:07.400 --> 01:07:10.360
you know, they could innovate. I just think that it
1322
01:07:10.519 --> 01:07:13.119
is it is going to be more sustainable because these
1323
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:15.920
guys and gals, uh, you know, a year from now,
1324
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:19.119
two years from now, where are they going to be physically?
1325
01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:22.920
You know, Chris Daniels is forty five years old, you know,
1326
01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:31.239
is it really? I mean, Dustin Rhodes, you know, Kenny Omegas,
1327
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:33.760
I think thirty eight, So, I mean, you know, there
1328
01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:36.320
there comes a time where, you know, I don't know
1329
01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:38.440
how old Cody is, but there comes a time where
1330
01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:43.320
you need to create superstars. And I don't see any
1331
01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:47.239
of them really as super superstars other than a couple
1332
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:49.800
a handful of people, you know, and they really need
1333
01:07:49.880 --> 01:07:53.440
to start focusing on how do we create stars, you know,
1334
01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:56.519
and then you could have all these crazy matches and
1335
01:07:56.559 --> 01:07:59.320
all this great stuff. But I think they need to
1336
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:04.960
do what the WWE did. Their television show was originally
1337
01:08:05.079 --> 01:08:07.840
meant to sell house show tickets and their pay per views,
1338
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:11.599
and I think the model has changed a bit, of course,
1339
01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:13.880
because they're looking for ratings. But at the end of
1340
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.000
the day, you've got to create these stars and these
1341
01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:19.119
matches for your pay per views. You only have four
1342
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:23.039
of them, you know, And I mean, I just think
1343
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:25.800
they really need to start focusing on, Look, who are
1344
01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:27.560
we gonna who are we going to really make here?
1345
01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:30.199
Because they made Jerich, I mean, Jericho makes himself. But
1346
01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:33.159
I mean it's such a difference when Chris Jericho is
1347
01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:36.800
out there, you know, even a Cody Roads because he's good,
1348
01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:39.520
Cody's very good. Yeah, when you know, when those two
1349
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:44.239
are out there and then anybody else, it's a big difference,
1350
01:08:44.840 --> 01:08:47.159
you know what I mean, It's a big difference. Well,
1351
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:49.479
and you know, even Jericho Jericho is getting up there,
1352
01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:51.119
it's fifty one, you know.
1353
01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:52.520
Absolutely.
1354
01:08:52.600 --> 01:08:55.720
I think that there's a lot of wisdom in aaw
1355
01:08:56.399 --> 01:09:00.359
But the wisdom is coming for wrestlers who physically don't
1356
01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:05.000
have the ability to keep up on the spots, and
1357
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:08.720
so they're being more efficient about what they do, and
1358
01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:10.319
in the end, I think they're the ones who are
1359
01:09:10.760 --> 01:09:12.600
creating more of the buzz. I mean, Jericho, I think
1360
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:14.520
is from a character standpoint, doing the best work of
1361
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:17.359
his career. And then you have Cody at age thirty four,
1362
01:09:17.439 --> 01:09:20.239
who's in that sweet spot that wrestlers hit where there's
1363
01:09:20.279 --> 01:09:24.199
that experience, there's a physical ability, and there's the familiarity
1364
01:09:24.279 --> 01:09:26.680
with the fans, and he's able to frame himself as
1365
01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:28.520
a star and carry himself as a star, and he's
1366
01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:32.600
a real model for creating that next star from their
1367
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:35.119
crop of twenty somethings. But when you look, you know
1368
01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:39.960
Lance Archer, they hired, you know, Brodie Lee, the wrestlers
1369
01:09:39.960 --> 01:09:42.119
that they're bringing in, Matt Hardy, they're in their forties,
1370
01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:46.520
and you know, at some point, where does AW get
1371
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:48.920
that person who's going to be the next star? And
1372
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:51.119
I love Darbiella, and I love Samy Gavara. They've got
1373
01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:56.199
and Kip Savian, But where's that next defining heavyweight centerpiece
1374
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:59.680
star who is that? Where does AW develop them or
1375
01:09:59.720 --> 01:10:01.600
signed them from and I think that is, you know,
1376
01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.079
something that they should keep in mind at this point.
1377
01:10:04.119 --> 01:10:06.000
I mean, Cody and the Bucks are young enough, and
1378
01:10:06.039 --> 01:10:09.000
really Kenny's young enough to get them through years. But
1379
01:10:09.159 --> 01:10:10.720
you want to have that next wave too, because one
1380
01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:12.319
of the great things about being a wrestling fan is
1381
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:14.399
watching wrestlers come up through the ranks like you and
1382
01:10:14.479 --> 01:10:16.520
I would relate to Brett Hart, you know, coming out
1383
01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:18.840
from the Heart Foundation, the Icy title, the world title,
1384
01:10:18.880 --> 01:10:21.479
and you want that story, that journey to be part
1385
01:10:21.479 --> 01:10:22.640
of aw Dynamite two.
1386
01:10:23.239 --> 01:10:26.039
Yeah, and I think I think they'll get that down.
1387
01:10:26.119 --> 01:10:28.600
But one thing stands out to me, Well, I got
1388
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:32.760
two points. One point is this I watched I don't
1389
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:35.600
know where. I think it was double or nothing. Wherever
1390
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:39.640
Dustin and Cody wrestled. That match was done so well.
1391
01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:41.359
I watched it. I was on the road wrestling. I
1392
01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:44.920
watched it from my hotel room, and after the promo
1393
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.439
at the end, I actually teared up, just get a
1394
01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:50.560
little choked up. I was like, Wow, that was really
1395
01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:53.560
well done, A little bit of reality to it. Hell
1396
01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:56.800
of a match, you know, everything, just there was a
1397
01:10:56.880 --> 01:10:59.039
motion to it. I remember that, and that was a
1398
01:10:59.119 --> 01:11:03.199
long time ago. They need to start putting together moments
1399
01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:06.399
like that, because, you know, because somebody said to me,
1400
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:09.760
not too. My wife said this to me, and she
1401
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:13.680
doesn't watch wrestling at all. Just when I have it on,
1402
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:16.279
you know, she browses and she goes, oh my cause
1403
01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:18.760
you know, she was she worked for ECW doing T
1404
01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:21.319
shirts for three years, so she's seen a lot of wrestling.
1405
01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:25.399
She goes, oh my god, Pete, it looks like indie wrestling.
1406
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:29.800
And I get that a lot. And it's not just
1407
01:11:29.960 --> 01:11:32.119
the wrestling part of it. It's a lot of it
1408
01:11:32.279 --> 01:11:36.279
is guys just don't the guys just don't look like
1409
01:11:36.560 --> 01:11:42.199
wrestlers nowadays. I think they've gone too heavy on the
1410
01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:46.880
lighter guy. I think fans still like to see, you know,
1411
01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:49.880
a guy that's six foot six foot one, you know,
1412
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:52.239
two hundred and twenty, two hundred and thirty pounds. I mean,
1413
01:11:52.279 --> 01:11:55.239
I think there should be a good blend of heavyweight,
1414
01:11:56.079 --> 01:11:58.920
you know, and like light heavyweight, you know. And because
1415
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:03.720
they're Darby Allen, very very small guy, you know, Samuy Guavara,
1416
01:12:03.760 --> 01:12:07.479
who I think is extremely talented, really small guy. A
1417
01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:10.479
lot of guys the Bucks, really small guys, I think,
1418
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:13.920
you know, Joey Janella really small. I think that that's
1419
01:12:13.960 --> 01:12:17.560
starting to become a problem for the casual fan. If
1420
01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:19.920
there is such a thing for the people that tune
1421
01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:23.439
in that may not necessarily know what it is or
1422
01:12:23.560 --> 01:12:27.279
are in on the AW buzz, you know, getting the
1423
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:29.079
new fan, I think that's going to be a little
1424
01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:30.520
bit of an issue, at least it is for some
1425
01:12:30.640 --> 01:12:32.880
people that I've spoken to. Not really me, I'm not
1426
01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:34.960
saying it, but a lot of people have mentioned that
1427
01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:35.279
to me.
1428
01:12:40.239 --> 01:12:43.760
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin McClelland we host Wrestling
1429
01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:46.079
Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to
1430
01:12:46.119 --> 01:12:48.079
find the best wrestling from the smallest places.
1431
01:12:48.399 --> 01:12:51.239
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
1432
01:12:51.279 --> 01:12:53.439
Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
1433
01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:55.840
women who could be big time stars in a few years.
1434
01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:58.960
There are plenty of podcasts to voters at WW and AW,
1435
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:02.239
but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums local wrestling
1436
01:13:02.279 --> 01:13:03.520
hotspots around the country.
1437
01:13:03.880 --> 01:13:05.760
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
1438
01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:08.000
gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
1439
01:13:08.079 --> 01:13:10.079
complain about bad referees.
1440
01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:11.840
And justin bemoaning dogpole fins.
1441
01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:14.439
Don't forget my fetal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
1442
01:13:14.479 --> 01:13:15.000
win a match.
1443
01:13:15.439 --> 01:13:16.520
How can I like?
1444
01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:19.199
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from
1445
01:13:19.239 --> 01:13:23.319
around the country, such as Prestige Action, West Coast Pro, Revolver,
1446
01:13:23.680 --> 01:13:24.600
and Beyond Wrestling.
1447
01:13:24.920 --> 01:13:27.600
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling, No.
1448
01:13:27.720 --> 01:13:30.199
I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh right. Our
1449
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:32.640
show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup and
1450
01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:36.359
typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your podcast app,
1451
01:13:36.520 --> 01:13:39.640
as subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast, or stream
1452
01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:42.840
our shows directly from PW touch dot com. Find full
1453
01:13:42.920 --> 01:13:46.680
details on the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup at Pwtuschdailycast
1454
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:47.239
dot com.
1455
01:13:54.640 --> 01:13:57.439
AW is a Patriot dish right now of a lot
1456
01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:01.239
a lot of styles, and they have a lot of
1457
01:14:01.319 --> 01:14:04.039
choices to make in terms of how they differentiate themselves
1458
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:11.399
from WWE, but also how they define themselves just based
1459
01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:12.920
on what the best thing is to do with the
1460
01:14:12.960 --> 01:14:15.680
talent that they have, and then what talent to recruit
1461
01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:17.479
and who to feature and who to put over and
1462
01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:20.159
at what pace. I think there's some good minds there,
1463
01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:22.760
but it's a lot. It feels like a lot of
1464
01:14:22.840 --> 01:14:26.479
competing ideas still without that central vision. I think less
1465
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:29.279
so now than in the fall. But you know, they're
1466
01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:30.560
in good shape. I mean, when you take the seven
1467
01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:32.520
day ratings into account, they're drawing more than a million
1468
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:35.439
viewers almost every week, and I think they're at a
1469
01:14:35.479 --> 01:14:39.479
point that's financially sustainable and their programming is valued. I
1470
01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:44.479
think that they're smart to have introduced the TNT title.
1471
01:14:45.079 --> 01:14:46.960
They're goning ton announce who's in that tournament, but I
1472
01:14:47.000 --> 01:14:50.399
think they've got some wrestlers who are isolated and who
1473
01:14:50.439 --> 01:14:52.479
they can make the case that you know, it's fine
1474
01:14:52.520 --> 01:14:54.119
to have them wrestling each other, and they can produce
1475
01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:57.119
original content for T and T at a time when
1476
01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:59.279
networks are desperate for that.
1477
01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:02.279
And I think they're making some good moves.
1478
01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:05.840
In terms of using that tournament likely to elevate and
1479
01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:08.399
answer some of the issues rivering it up here, which
1480
01:15:08.479 --> 01:15:10.359
is how do you create new stars? And part of
1481
01:15:10.399 --> 01:15:12.439
that is have a tournament with a bunch of young,
1482
01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:15.800
young lions, so to speak, like like NXT did last year,
1483
01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:17.359
but kind of dropped the ball on you know a lot,
1484
01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:19.239
don't I don't think they got as much out of
1485
01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:24.199
that as as they they should have. Cameron Grimes is
1486
01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:25.439
like the one guy who kind of came out of
1487
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:28.840
that with with some rob So they have a lot
1488
01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:30.479
of choices to make, but I think there's more good
1489
01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:33.399
decisions and bad being made right now. But there's there's
1490
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:35.960
definitely some some adjustments that I'd continue to make up
1491
01:15:35.960 --> 01:15:36.319
over them.
1492
01:15:36.800 --> 01:15:39.000
Yeah, I one thing I would really go with and
1493
01:15:39.039 --> 01:15:40.760
I'd love to see in this tournament. I don't know
1494
01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:45.079
how what his deal is with wrestling, but Jake Hagar, Wow,
1495
01:15:45.199 --> 01:15:47.600
the old jack swagger there. What I mean, He's a
1496
01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:50.520
mountain of a man. Yes, I would love to see
1497
01:15:50.640 --> 01:15:52.680
him in there. I just wish they would do something.
1498
01:15:52.960 --> 01:15:56.319
The gear he wore the other day was not flattering whatsoever,
1499
01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:00.560
had like these weird span that, like, you know, very
1500
01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:03.520
cheap looking. But as an athlete, I mean he's got
1501
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:05.640
the height, he's got the I mean, he's really he's
1502
01:16:05.680 --> 01:16:08.520
somebody I would I could do something with it. I mean, yeah,
1503
01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:10.119
they have a lot of a lot of choices to
1504
01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:12.640
make right now, and I think they'll be fine. I'm
1505
01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:15.760
really look, I'm I'm I want this to succeed as
1506
01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:18.840
bad as anybody, because the more work for the boys,
1507
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:21.760
the more work for me. You know, even if if
1508
01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:24.399
it's just me doing a podcast about it or this
1509
01:16:24.640 --> 01:16:26.840
or that about it, or you know whatever, it's just
1510
01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:29.640
the more work for guys, the better for all of us,
1511
01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:31.960
you know. So I really hope they succeed and they
1512
01:16:32.039 --> 01:16:35.000
do well, and so far, I mean, I don't think
1513
01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:37.000
I don't think you could ask him to be doing
1514
01:16:37.159 --> 01:16:39.800
much better at this stage in the game, you know.
1515
01:16:40.079 --> 01:16:40.279
Yep.
1516
01:16:41.199 --> 01:16:44.640
One more question on the Indy scene and the situation
1517
01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:46.319
that you're in a lot of wrestlers find themselves in.
1518
01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:49.199
And then I want to shift to closing out with
1519
01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:52.880
some talking about Nujak. With the documentary coming up tonight
1520
01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:56.560
on on Vice about the new jak arculist incident, how
1521
01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:58.479
does the Indy scene bounce back? I mean, the headlines
1522
01:16:58.520 --> 01:17:01.760
on CNN right now as a recording this in the background,
1523
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:06.279
are doctor Fauci warns of a second wave in the fall.
1524
01:17:07.319 --> 01:17:10.159
I mean the idea that you know, we're just gonna
1525
01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:13.199
hunker down for a few weeks and then it's gonna
1526
01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:15.520
go away. No, we're hunkering down to flatten the curve.
1527
01:17:15.960 --> 01:17:17.960
But it's going to be out there until we have
1528
01:17:20.000 --> 01:17:24.359
a cure vaccinations that will prevent that, and that could
1529
01:17:24.399 --> 01:17:25.520
be a year to a year and a half away.
1530
01:17:25.560 --> 01:17:26.760
I mean, we just don't know what we're in for.
1531
01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:29.520
And frankly, it's healthy to keep in mind this might
1532
01:17:29.640 --> 01:17:32.000
take a long time. But it's also healthy to not
1533
01:17:32.199 --> 01:17:34.520
dwell on it or consider it a given. I mean,
1534
01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:35.880
we just sort of have to, you know, get through
1535
01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:39.840
this week by week right now. But indie wrestling the
1536
01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:44.039
idea of fans gathering and paying ticket money to be
1537
01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:47.279
in a crowd intimately in a high school gym or wherever,
1538
01:17:48.399 --> 01:17:53.159
with wrestlers who can safely without the promoter worrying about
1539
01:17:53.279 --> 01:17:55.560
some lawsuit or whatever if a fan ends up with
1540
01:17:55.600 --> 01:17:57.720
coronavirus or a wrestler that he hires. I mean, there's
1541
01:17:57.760 --> 01:18:01.720
all these complications. What is the path for the for
1542
01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:04.760
the indie scene in twenty twenty. I mean, we talk
1543
01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:06.760
the focus is so much on vinswick Man, but he's
1544
01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:08.920
set no matter what, you know, I mean, if he's not,
1545
01:18:09.039 --> 01:18:10.560
it's his fault. You know, no one's gonna feel sorry
1546
01:18:10.600 --> 01:18:13.880
for and financially, but every indie company out there right
1547
01:18:13.960 --> 01:18:21.000
now is looking at possibly four eight twelve months of
1548
01:18:21.319 --> 01:18:24.520
no shows. Now the bright side, and they'll throw to
1549
01:18:24.560 --> 01:18:26.880
you there's a chance that they lighten up on the
1550
01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:29.199
restriction on crowds and they go, well, groups of two
1551
01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:32.439
hundred people can gather, but not one thousand or five thousand,
1552
01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:34.800
you know, so effects say NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball
1553
01:18:34.880 --> 01:18:37.079
more And then ady promoter's like, great, I've never drawn
1554
01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:38.840
more than two hundred people, you know, so I can
1555
01:18:38.880 --> 01:18:41.640
start running again. You know that's likely to happen before
1556
01:18:41.680 --> 01:18:44.720
the NFL fill stadium. So that's the bright side. But yeah,
1557
01:18:44.800 --> 01:18:46.680
your your thoughts on the on the indie scene and
1558
01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:47.800
how it withstands this.
1559
01:18:48.920 --> 01:18:54.239
I don't I don't know. I mean for companies like MLW,
1560
01:18:54.720 --> 01:18:58.000
Ring of Honor, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I
1561
01:18:58.079 --> 01:19:00.680
mean MLW, I believe just signed a d for India
1562
01:19:00.760 --> 01:19:04.000
and North Africa. I don't know how they fulfill television.
1563
01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:08.319
I know Ring of Honor is owned by the television companies,
1564
01:19:08.359 --> 01:19:10.520
so that shouldn't be much of a problem. But the
1565
01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:13.880
problem is more, I mean the indie promoters. Will a
1566
01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:16.399
lot of them just do this, Most of them that
1567
01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:21.239
I work for, do this more for not for fun,
1568
01:19:21.359 --> 01:19:24.000
but kind of just you know, they like to do it.
1569
01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:26.520
It's something that they enjoyed to do. They promote a
1570
01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:29.720
couple times a year. What I'm more concerned about is
1571
01:19:29.800 --> 01:19:33.039
the independent men and women out there, the wrestlers themselves.
1572
01:19:34.279 --> 01:19:36.600
You know a lot of people make their living even
1573
01:19:36.680 --> 01:19:40.960
going to Japan, et cetera. Mexico. It's going to be
1574
01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:42.920
a real problem. You know, it's going to be a
1575
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:46.199
real problem. And a lot of these people, you know,
1576
01:19:46.319 --> 01:19:48.840
they don't know how to do much else. You know,
1577
01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:51.880
they have mouths to feed. You know, what are you
1578
01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:54.199
going to get a minimum wage job? So that's what
1579
01:19:54.319 --> 01:19:58.600
concerns me. I think the indie independent wrestling business will
1580
01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:01.399
be just fine when it restarts. It always has been,
1581
01:20:01.439 --> 01:20:04.079
it always will be whenever that may be. I'm just
1582
01:20:04.159 --> 01:20:07.079
more worried about the men and women out there doing it,
1583
01:20:07.159 --> 01:20:09.680
what they're going to do, you know that That's what's
1584
01:20:09.800 --> 01:20:10.880
most concerning to me.
1585
01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:13.960
You know, and everyone's hurting there's only so many gofund
1586
01:20:14.039 --> 01:20:18.159
me accounts or you know, buy this T shirt before
1587
01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:21.920
you know that doesn't it's just not a sustainable, sustainable
1588
01:20:21.960 --> 01:20:22.760
income stream either.
1589
01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:24.760
No, not at all. I mean, you know, I have
1590
01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:28.000
twenty shirts on pro wrestling teas. If I sell fifty two,
1591
01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:30.880
one hundred dollars a month, that's a lot. So you
1592
01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:33.279
know it's that's not you know, So it's it's going
1593
01:20:33.319 --> 01:20:34.920
to be it's going to be difficult. You know, it's
1594
01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:38.760
going to be difficult. I think, you know, I don't
1595
01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:41.119
know what the solution is. I really don't. I don't
1596
01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:42.199
know what the solution is going to be.
1597
01:20:42.479 --> 01:20:45.319
Well, people listening can buy a just incredible T shirt. Yes,
1598
01:20:45.439 --> 01:20:48.000
that'll so go to prosely Teas and check it out.
1599
01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:52.039
I'll transition before a new check with another email. Question here,
1600
01:20:52.239 --> 01:20:54.159
very very off the topic of what we've been talking about,
1601
01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:58.640
Ryan El says, what was your interaction with Vincent Man
1602
01:20:58.800 --> 01:21:01.880
on the although Montoy Man of War character and what
1603
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:05.880
advice or comments did Vince make to you? What was
1604
01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:08.680
your overall experience working with VINCIK Man during this time
1605
01:21:08.720 --> 01:21:11.039
when so many these any characters are being created, and
1606
01:21:11.119 --> 01:21:14.720
most importantly, how was it working with man tar ps.
1607
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:16.960
So glad you found your group in ECW. I enjoyed
1608
01:21:16.960 --> 01:21:18.760
your career there, and I'm glad you're doing well today.
1609
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:22.600
My my relationship with Vince was really good. As a
1610
01:21:22.640 --> 01:21:26.720
matter of fact, these were different times. I mean, you know,
1611
01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:29.000
when he offered me my job, he literally pulled me,
1612
01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:33.119
you know, on a balcony had an armory in Massachusetts
1613
01:21:33.720 --> 01:21:38.319
and said, you know, GJ, the WWF is like the
1614
01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:40.640
United States of America, and he pointed to a flag
1615
01:21:41.359 --> 01:21:44.119
of America and he goes, We're the land of opportunity,
1616
01:21:44.159 --> 01:21:47.039
and I'm going to give you this opportunity. And he
1617
01:21:47.199 --> 01:21:50.479
was always very on hands, you know, you know, gave
1618
01:21:50.520 --> 01:21:53.199
me ideas. Pat Patterson is the one I really worked with.
1619
01:21:53.439 --> 01:21:56.319
But Vince was always available back then. It wasn't like
1620
01:21:56.359 --> 01:21:59.479
today where you have to, you know, make a meeting
1621
01:21:59.560 --> 01:22:02.359
with some two weeks in advance to just talk to him.
1622
01:22:03.199 --> 01:22:05.560
It was different times, but he was He was very cool.
1623
01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:07.960
He didn't give me a lot of direction though with
1624
01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:12.680
the character, so that being said, but it was a
1625
01:22:12.680 --> 01:22:15.760
great experience working with him. I loved it. And working
1626
01:22:15.800 --> 01:22:18.520
with Mantar was the worst, one of the worst wrestling
1627
01:22:18.560 --> 01:22:22.199
experience of my life. He would he would he would
1628
01:22:22.279 --> 01:22:25.960
kill you. I mean, I remember being in these small
1629
01:22:26.079 --> 01:22:30.000
ice hockey rinks in Ontario, Canada, and they were cold.
1630
01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:32.000
You know. We had these little space heaters in the
1631
01:22:32.079 --> 01:22:35.800
locker rooms and the rings back then were not. They
1632
01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:38.800
were very stiff. They were still like made for Andrea
1633
01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:41.079
and Hulk and the big guys, so little guys like me,
1634
01:22:41.720 --> 01:22:44.560
you know, especially in the cold arena, they would hurt
1635
01:22:44.640 --> 01:22:46.880
and he would just crush me every night, like stiff,
1636
01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:49.880
you just break your back. He was horrible, horrible to
1637
01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:51.479
work with, horrible.
1638
01:22:54.520 --> 01:22:56.640
Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
1639
01:22:56.720 --> 01:22:59.279
level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this, the
1640
01:22:59.319 --> 01:23:02.319
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01:23:02.399 --> 01:23:06.079
pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP podcast
1642
01:23:06.159 --> 01:23:09.039
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01:23:09.159 --> 01:23:12.840
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01:23:12.880 --> 01:23:15.079
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01:23:15.119 --> 01:23:17.239
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01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:20.640
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01:23:20.720 --> 01:23:23.319
So go VIP here in twenty twenty two and enjoy
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01:23:23.479 --> 01:23:26.479
all the benefits, all the bonus content, and the ad
1649
01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:30.840
free listening experience. Pw torch dot com slash go VIP.
1650
01:23:34.119 --> 01:23:39.319
All right, let's talk about Nujack, your thought on the
1651
01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:44.039
Revere mass incident with mass Transit and Nujack. We just
1652
01:23:44.079 --> 01:23:48.239
posted on a PW torch dot com several stories from
1653
01:23:48.359 --> 01:23:51.479
our coverage at that time. It was a defining incident
1654
01:23:51.520 --> 01:23:54.520
for ECW in a lot of ways. It was one
1655
01:23:54.640 --> 01:23:57.159
of the factors that led to one of the paper
1656
01:23:57.239 --> 01:24:00.600
b distributors delaying ECW getting on pay per view. At
1657
01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:02.319
that time, there were two companies. One had pulled out
1658
01:24:02.319 --> 01:24:04.279
without even being aware of the mass transit incident due
1659
01:24:04.279 --> 01:24:07.800
to other factors, and the other one pulled out in
1660
01:24:07.920 --> 01:24:11.600
great part because of that. They eventually get on pay
1661
01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:13.680
per view. But I haven't seen the documentary yet, but
1662
01:24:13.800 --> 01:24:17.039
Vice tonight airing that. What what what do you when
1663
01:24:17.079 --> 01:24:19.279
I bring that incident up? What crosses your mind?
1664
01:24:19.319 --> 01:24:19.359
What?
1665
01:24:19.479 --> 01:24:21.720
What is the historical significance of it?
1666
01:24:22.560 --> 01:24:24.960
Well, I mean I wasn't there yet with the company.
1667
01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:29.039
I was still with the WWS when that happened. But
1668
01:24:30.439 --> 01:24:35.159
from what I hear, it was this kid who had
1669
01:24:35.239 --> 01:24:38.000
come to I mean, back then, the locker rooms were
1670
01:24:38.159 --> 01:24:40.520
very guarded. It's nothing like today. There were very old
1671
01:24:40.560 --> 01:24:44.079
school locker rooms and respect was a huge thing now
1672
01:24:44.319 --> 01:24:46.880
in no way, shape or form. And I like Newjack
1673
01:24:46.920 --> 01:24:49.960
a lot. He's since become a good friend and he's
1674
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:52.760
mellowed out a lot too. We're older now, but you know,
1675
01:24:52.920 --> 01:24:56.359
respect was a huge thing. And from what I understand,
1676
01:24:56.399 --> 01:24:59.359
this kid lied about his age. This old man brought
1677
01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:03.239
him there. He had no professional wrestling training, and he
1678
01:25:03.439 --> 01:25:07.000
was bragging all backstage, kind of being a punk. And
1679
01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:12.159
he asked New Jack if he could get colored for
1680
01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:14.560
if Jack could get colored for him, which is cut
1681
01:25:14.640 --> 01:25:16.640
him because the kid didn't know how to do it.
1682
01:25:17.319 --> 01:25:20.119
I think Paul Hayman, quite frankly, I've done a lot
1683
01:25:20.159 --> 01:25:23.319
of that, got a New Jack's here, I really do.
1684
01:25:25.119 --> 01:25:28.239
I don't think Jack's that crazy. I think it was
1685
01:25:28.319 --> 01:25:30.760
a bit of a perfect storm of madness. I think,
1686
01:25:31.439 --> 01:25:33.239
you know, people were telling him go out there and
1687
01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:36.039
show him Jack kind of you know what he's you
1688
01:25:36.079 --> 01:25:38.880
know what I mean, I really believe that. I don't
1689
01:25:38.920 --> 01:25:42.239
know for a fact. It's just kind of the rumblings
1690
01:25:42.279 --> 01:25:44.199
I've gathered throughout the years. Like I said, I was
1691
01:25:44.279 --> 01:25:47.920
not there, but yeah, I mean that's you know that
1692
01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:50.680
said that, you know, nobody. That shouldn't happened to anybody,
1693
01:25:51.319 --> 01:25:56.680
you know what I mean? But you know, crazy times. Yeah, yeah,
1694
01:25:56.840 --> 01:25:59.319
I mean I'm curious to see the documentary The Night
1695
01:25:59.399 --> 01:25:59.880
That's for sure.
1696
01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:00.880
No, I am too.
1697
01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:04.239
Paul Hayman told me the week of the incident. I
1698
01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:07.000
consider what happened a scary incident. Thankfully it wasn't a
1699
01:26:07.079 --> 01:26:09.439
lot worse. It was very, very scary for all of us.
1700
01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:12.079
The system we have in place works, but it needs
1701
01:26:12.119 --> 01:26:12.840
to be upgraded.
1702
01:26:13.279 --> 01:26:13.520
He said.
1703
01:26:13.560 --> 01:26:15.079
They're going to take much greater care in making sure
1704
01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:18.319
anyone who wrestles has formal training background and yes, must
1705
01:26:18.359 --> 01:26:19.000
be an adult.
1706
01:26:19.199 --> 01:26:19.840
I always thought it.
1707
01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:23.399
Was weird that people would point out, well, he lied
1708
01:26:23.399 --> 01:26:26.640
about his age, like if he was nineteen and said
1709
01:26:26.680 --> 01:26:28.920
he was nineteen, that it would have been okay for
1710
01:26:29.039 --> 01:26:31.079
Duja to do what he did. I just like the
1711
01:26:31.119 --> 01:26:32.199
fact that he lied about his age.
1712
01:26:32.199 --> 01:26:34.359
Who cares? Nujack thought at the time he was of
1713
01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:37.800
age and it turned out he wasn't. So that's one thing.
1714
01:26:38.079 --> 01:26:41.720
Still doesn't do that well, Yeah, because that wasn't knowledge
1715
01:26:41.760 --> 01:26:43.800
at the time. That happened independent of the fact that
1716
01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:46.079
he lied about his age, Yes, he was under age
1717
01:26:46.199 --> 01:26:48.920
and he misrepresented himself. That's a fact off to the
1718
01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:52.399
side that I find wholly irrelevant, other than if you
1719
01:26:52.479 --> 01:26:54.600
think the only thing that made what Nujack did wrong
1720
01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:56.720
was the fact that the kid was seventeen, not eighteen,
1721
01:26:56.800 --> 01:26:58.279
and that's never been my point. I don't care if
1722
01:26:58.279 --> 01:27:01.039
he's seventeen or eighteen. Is what he did when he
1723
01:27:01.079 --> 01:27:03.000
thought the kid was eighteen or nineteen.
1724
01:27:03.199 --> 01:27:06.720
Right, Yeah, Yeah, it's just Paul spinning, Paul doing what
1725
01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:09.560
he does best, especially in those days, you know, Yeah,
1726
01:27:10.119 --> 01:27:11.119
that's that's him and for.
1727
01:27:11.199 --> 01:27:12.439
You, yeah, yep.
1728
01:27:13.279 --> 01:27:15.079
So I encourage be able to check out PW torch
1729
01:27:15.079 --> 01:27:17.000
dot com because we've got my initial cover story on it,
1730
01:27:17.119 --> 01:27:20.079
quotes from Paul Hayman talking about it, Bruce Mitchell's call
1731
01:27:20.159 --> 01:27:22.199
him a few weeks later on it, and our cover
1732
01:27:22.359 --> 01:27:26.119
story detailing the actual truth of what happened. I'm curious
1733
01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:28.319
how that documentary covers it tonight in terms of the
1734
01:27:29.079 --> 01:27:31.560
delay and getting on pay per view, because a lot
1735
01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:34.039
of people who work for ECW have spun that in
1736
01:27:34.079 --> 01:27:38.520
different ways, but our coverage was was stellar of this,
1737
01:27:38.640 --> 01:27:40.600
with quotes from executives with both of the pay per
1738
01:27:40.640 --> 01:27:42.920
view distributors talking about what really led to the delay.
1739
01:27:43.880 --> 01:27:46.239
Peters talk about Nujack a little bit more, You talking
1740
01:27:46.239 --> 01:27:48.720
about him mellowing out now, talk about him back then
1741
01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:51.479
and what you thought of him. Maybe a new Jack
1742
01:27:51.520 --> 01:27:53.640
story or two from back in the day. That's okay,
1743
01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:57.920
that's okay to share. And what you found he's like today.
1744
01:27:58.439 --> 01:28:01.560
Well, I always got along with Jack, you know. If
1745
01:28:01.640 --> 01:28:04.560
that's the thing, is he a lot of what you
1746
01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:06.439
see in the ring and a lot of what you
1747
01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:08.880
hear was a lot of a lot of work. He
1748
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:11.680
was a big worker. One thing that surprised me was
1749
01:28:12.039 --> 01:28:14.600
he was very funny and he could actually wrestle in
1750
01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:17.680
the ring. He was actually a decent wrestler. You know,
1751
01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:19.960
a lot of people don't remember that about him because
1752
01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:22.359
of what he became and what he was saying famous for.
1753
01:28:23.119 --> 01:28:25.760
He was actually a pretty good worker. Just a real funny,
1754
01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:28.119
lighthearted guy. Man. I mean I didn't hang out too
1755
01:28:28.199 --> 01:28:31.199
much with him, but I was just wrestled him a
1756
01:28:31.319 --> 01:28:34.439
couple months ago, and man, he's just you know, we've
1757
01:28:34.479 --> 01:28:36.640
all just chilled out so much. He was just real,
1758
01:28:37.439 --> 01:28:42.439
real quiet, you know, just not even drinking, not doing anything,
1759
01:28:42.520 --> 01:28:45.319
you know, just just real mellow, you know, just happy
1760
01:28:45.359 --> 01:28:47.920
to be there and asks how everybody's doing. He's doing
1761
01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:50.560
his own thing. You know, just we've all grown up,
1762
01:28:50.600 --> 01:28:52.760
you know, we've all gotten a bit older. You know.
1763
01:28:53.239 --> 01:28:55.439
That's you know, I don't have many stories on him
1764
01:28:55.439 --> 01:28:58.079
because I really don't have anything good but just no,
1765
01:28:58.159 --> 01:29:01.000
I really don't remember him. I just remember him always
1766
01:29:01.039 --> 01:29:03.319
being fun to hang around with. And I never I'll
1767
01:29:03.359 --> 01:29:05.319
tell you one thing though, I never felt unsafe in
1768
01:29:05.399 --> 01:29:08.600
the ring with him. He never heard me, So I'll
1769
01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:09.279
give you that much.
1770
01:29:10.119 --> 01:29:13.600
What what from a personality standpoint, Nujack was was a
1771
01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:15.920
you know, a great character. Obviously on air, there was
1772
01:29:16.079 --> 01:29:20.159
value in him being on the roster and people got
1773
01:29:20.199 --> 01:29:22.600
to see that. Talk about him a little bit more
1774
01:29:22.640 --> 01:29:26.199
as a locker room colleague and as somebody when the
1775
01:29:26.239 --> 01:29:27.880
guard was down and the cameras were off, what he
1776
01:29:28.000 --> 01:29:30.359
was like because this documentary, people are gonna a lot
1777
01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:32.039
of people are going to watch this documentary not having
1778
01:29:32.119 --> 01:29:34.359
seen a second of Nujak before, and they're going to
1779
01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:37.159
see some clips and and uh and be introduced to him.
1780
01:29:37.199 --> 01:29:38.760
But but talk about what he was like at that
1781
01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:39.960
time as a colleague.
1782
01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:43.520
Uh, nothing like he was in the ring. Nothing like
1783
01:29:43.600 --> 01:29:46.079
he was in the ring. Like I said, he loved
1784
01:29:46.119 --> 01:29:49.520
to joke. You know, he's always joking, always making fun
1785
01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:54.199
of somebody, very very loose, very loose. You know, he
1786
01:29:54.359 --> 01:29:57.159
was portrayed and you know, his character was very angry
1787
01:29:57.359 --> 01:30:01.199
and you know, uh, but you know, nothing of the
1788
01:30:01.279 --> 01:30:04.359
sort he was. You know, there's things I can't discuss
1789
01:30:04.800 --> 01:30:07.000
on here that I can't say, but you know, he
1790
01:30:07.039 --> 01:30:08.960
would just go hang out in his room with a
1791
01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:11.880
couple of his buddies and really that's all it was.
1792
01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:15.439
It's again, it's nothing. The one thing people will not
1793
01:30:15.560 --> 01:30:17.720
know about him is that he was really funny and
1794
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:20.199
very kind. He would give you the shirt off his
1795
01:30:20.279 --> 01:30:22.960
back if you were, you know, somebody liked and respected,
1796
01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:25.000
we would give you the shirt off his back.
1797
01:30:32.079 --> 01:30:35.399
I'm Kelly Wells, host of p WT Talks NXT, the
1798
01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:39.840
longest running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
1799
01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:43.359
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests live every Tuesday night,
1800
01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:46.800
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
1801
01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:48.840
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
1802
01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:52.199
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream
1803
01:30:52.279 --> 01:30:54.239
later wherever you get your podcasts.
1804
01:31:02.600 --> 01:31:02.840
Yeah.
1805
01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:03.439
Yeah, So.
1806
01:31:05.880 --> 01:31:09.279
In terms of like a character like Nu Jack, does
1807
01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:13.880
wrestling need more of that sense of outlaw characters in general?
1808
01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:15.760
I'm I'm you know, because I mean new Jack and
1809
01:31:15.800 --> 01:31:17.439
the reverence, and that's gonna be covered and we'll do
1810
01:31:17.680 --> 01:31:19.760
we'll do a lot of audio, uh in this week,
1811
01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:23.079
probably on that. But I think I look at Nujack
1812
01:31:23.119 --> 01:31:25.000
and I and you know, we you know, there's all
1813
01:31:25.119 --> 01:31:27.640
kinds of wrestling characters over the years, of various level
1814
01:31:27.640 --> 01:31:29.199
of success and in ring skill.
1815
01:31:29.640 --> 01:31:29.960
And all that.
1816
01:31:30.159 --> 01:31:33.760
But there was that edge to him, that that that
1817
01:31:33.960 --> 01:31:37.399
gave him work, that appealed to Jim Cornett, that appealed
1818
01:31:37.399 --> 01:31:40.119
to Paul Hayman when they utilized him in the nineties,
1819
01:31:41.920 --> 01:31:44.239
that not you know, you don't see as much of
1820
01:31:44.279 --> 01:31:46.720
that now. And Joeys like, you know, there's Joey Janella,
1821
01:31:46.760 --> 01:31:48.880
Oh you know what's he's there's a zaniness and an
1822
01:31:48.960 --> 01:31:52.920
unpredictability or but like that that street tough guy who
1823
01:31:53.079 --> 01:31:57.079
who most resembles having that sense of I don't know
1824
01:31:57.199 --> 01:31:59.560
if I really would want to go near this guy
1825
01:31:59.600 --> 01:32:00.439
outside the rink.
1826
01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:03.600
There's very there's very few of those now. I think,
1827
01:32:03.880 --> 01:32:06.000
you know, Joey Janella really doesn't even strike because I've
1828
01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:09.039
known Joey since he was fourteen, he doesn't strike me
1829
01:32:09.119 --> 01:32:13.199
as fearful or it's kind of kind of a google like, yeah,
1830
01:32:13.800 --> 01:32:16.800
Jimmy Havoc nothing, you know, I'm not scared of him.
1831
01:32:16.840 --> 01:32:20.439
He's one hundred and eighty pounds, soaking wet. I think
1832
01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:27.039
the wrestling business stays away from, you know, controversial characters,
1833
01:32:27.199 --> 01:32:30.399
characters that are outlaws, characters that you know. It almost
1834
01:32:30.439 --> 01:32:34.079
seems like we've forgotten to take chances in this business.
1835
01:32:34.159 --> 01:32:36.319
And some of the most successful characters in the business
1836
01:32:36.399 --> 01:32:40.640
have been outlaws in many ways, especially in the older days.
1837
01:32:41.119 --> 01:32:45.319
You know, just you know, even guys like Saboo. There's
1838
01:32:45.359 --> 01:32:48.439
never been another guy like a Saboo. I think we've
1839
01:32:48.640 --> 01:32:55.199
lost touch with making unique I should say, characters, characters
1840
01:32:55.239 --> 01:32:58.600
they're unique and you know, well we're not current too,
1841
01:32:58.760 --> 01:33:01.000
like that's the thing. At the time, in that era,
1842
01:33:01.520 --> 01:33:05.479
knew Jack was very authentic because that's kind of what
1843
01:33:05.600 --> 01:33:08.359
he was. You know, he was a street guy and
1844
01:33:08.640 --> 01:33:13.640
he was doing street thugs things. And today, okay, you
1845
01:33:13.720 --> 01:33:16.720
have the street profits for example, that's kind of what
1846
01:33:16.880 --> 01:33:18.479
they're you know, they're trying to go for that. There's
1847
01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:21.600
no authenticity. They dance, they have red cups, and they
1848
01:33:21.680 --> 01:33:25.720
look like they look like like male cheerleaders. You know.
1849
01:33:26.159 --> 01:33:28.880
As talented as they may be in the ring, there's
1850
01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:33.439
no there's no danger to any of them, I should
1851
01:33:33.479 --> 01:33:35.600
say so. I think we've got to get back to
1852
01:33:35.680 --> 01:33:37.720
the times where you know, maybe you look into some
1853
01:33:37.920 --> 01:33:40.920
guy and he he looks a little dangerous and for
1854
01:33:41.000 --> 01:33:43.920
the right reasons. You know, I think we've forgotten how
1855
01:33:43.960 --> 01:33:46.119
to do that, you know, yeah.
1856
01:33:46.159 --> 01:33:49.319
Yep, all right, Peach, I want to wrap up with
1857
01:33:50.520 --> 01:33:53.000
one more email question and then if there's anything that
1858
01:33:53.079 --> 01:33:54.720
after that you want to kind of plug or close with,
1859
01:33:54.920 --> 01:33:58.319
we can do that. Karen James from Stonehouse UK says,
1860
01:33:58.359 --> 01:33:59.960
I was a huge fan of the Impact players there's
1861
01:34:00.039 --> 01:34:02.520
into ECW was for me one of the highlights of
1862
01:34:02.560 --> 01:34:04.880
the final years of ECW. Do you think you and
1863
01:34:04.960 --> 01:34:07.640
Lance Lance Storm could have taken the team further in
1864
01:34:07.720 --> 01:34:11.399
ECW or another promotion and had add success there.
1865
01:34:12.319 --> 01:34:15.479
I think we could have taken that team anywhere we wanted.
1866
01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:19.560
We just had Lance really, since he came from Calgary
1867
01:34:19.640 --> 01:34:22.439
as well, he really did most of my training. I mean,
1868
01:34:22.479 --> 01:34:25.720
the Hearts were my teachers, but you know, you know
1869
01:34:25.800 --> 01:34:27.319
that the Hearts weren't in the ring the whole time,
1870
01:34:28.680 --> 01:34:30.880
so Lance did the bulk of my training. So we
1871
01:34:31.039 --> 01:34:35.720
really had a very similar, you know, exact similar styles.
1872
01:34:35.760 --> 01:34:37.680
Even though I was more of the brawler, he was
1873
01:34:37.720 --> 01:34:40.560
more of the wrestler. But that's what helped us out
1874
01:34:40.720 --> 01:34:44.000
so much, is because he was this technical guy and
1875
01:34:44.119 --> 01:34:46.239
I was more of this brawling type even though I
1876
01:34:46.279 --> 01:34:49.800
could work, you know, that's what I became. And just
1877
01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:54.079
having two ends of the spectrum than Jael so well together.
1878
01:34:54.760 --> 01:34:59.439
You know where I suggested doing the pose because I figured, well,
1879
01:34:59.479 --> 01:35:00.880
we need a little show. I was more of the
1880
01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:03.600
show biz where Lance was more of the straight up
1881
01:35:03.800 --> 01:35:06.239
can I be serious for a minute? Guy? So it
1882
01:35:06.399 --> 01:35:08.359
just was like a nice blend of.
1883
01:35:08.680 --> 01:35:10.119
It's hard for him to pull that off, wasn't it.
1884
01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:14.479
Yes it was, Yes, yes it was. But yeah I
1885
01:35:14.520 --> 01:35:17.039
felt man, you know, if things didn't if he didn't
1886
01:35:17.039 --> 01:35:19.119
go to WCW when he did, and I understand why
1887
01:35:19.159 --> 01:35:21.239
he did. It made a lot of good money down there.
1888
01:35:21.760 --> 01:35:23.800
I thought we could have gone to WWE or anywhere
1889
01:35:23.840 --> 01:35:27.039
else and made money for a while. We were really
1890
01:35:27.199 --> 01:35:30.000
really good team. We got along great. Uh you know
1891
01:35:30.359 --> 01:35:32.960
everything I think we could have Sky was the limit
1892
01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:34.119
I think, in my opinion.
1893
01:35:33.840 --> 01:35:37.159
At least, are your your YouTube videos are still a
1894
01:35:37.199 --> 01:35:39.560
part they Yes they are. Yeah, So I mean plug
1895
01:35:39.760 --> 01:35:42.079
plug those and talk about your social media. I know
1896
01:35:42.159 --> 01:35:44.119
you don't have any dates to plug but people can
1897
01:35:44.479 --> 01:35:46.840
can follow more from you and watch those YouTube videos too,
1898
01:35:46.840 --> 01:35:48.920
which I think are are just you know, people right
1899
01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:51.279
now have less wrestling to watch, and there's some gems
1900
01:35:51.319 --> 01:35:52.199
out there from years ago.
1901
01:35:52.880 --> 01:35:56.000
Yeah, just go to my YouTube channel type in pro
1902
01:35:56.119 --> 01:35:58.560
Wrestling one oh one. I have a whole series of
1903
01:35:58.640 --> 01:36:02.079
instructional five minute clips where I talk about different aspects
1904
01:36:02.119 --> 01:36:04.920
of the business. There. I've been told by many, many,
1905
01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:07.760
many independent wrestlers that have been really helpful in helping
1906
01:36:07.840 --> 01:36:10.600
launch their careers or at least filling in some blanks
1907
01:36:10.880 --> 01:36:15.319
that they may need any questions. Also, big importance for
1908
01:36:15.439 --> 01:36:17.560
me is Pro Wrestling Teas dot Com back, so that's
1909
01:36:17.720 --> 01:36:21.640
just incredible. I have over twenty selections Aldo Montoya just
1910
01:36:21.800 --> 01:36:24.600
incredible and even an impact player on there. So check
1911
01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:26.960
those out. And I want to plug this because for
1912
01:36:27.119 --> 01:36:29.079
now we still have the dates. Pen you still have
1913
01:36:29.159 --> 01:36:32.760
the dates booked. Go to for our Storyteller's tour with
1914
01:36:32.880 --> 01:36:37.319
myself Shane Douglason Sandman July thirteenth and fourteenth. Go to
1915
01:36:37.520 --> 01:36:43.279
the whole wholefintruth dot com. That's wholefintruth dot com all
1916
01:36:43.359 --> 01:36:46.920
your information as far as cancelations or redate reschedules if
1917
01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:50.560
you're interested, and follow me on Twitter at PJ Palaco
1918
01:36:50.720 --> 01:36:52.239
and is that. That's it, mister Keller.
1919
01:36:52.880 --> 01:36:54.600
It's been great catching up. Thank you so much for
1920
01:36:54.680 --> 01:36:56.359
taking time to talk about.
1921
01:36:56.159 --> 01:36:58.840
Pleasures issues, always the pleasure. It's been too long with them.
1922
01:36:58.880 --> 01:37:00.800
I know it has well, hope, please do this again
1923
01:37:01.560 --> 01:37:02.520
pretty soon. Do'll line here?
1924
01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:04.680
Yes, sir, thank you so much, and every great one.
1925
01:37:04.720 --> 01:37:06.880
Stay safe up there, man, Absolutely you too, all right,
1926
01:37:06.920 --> 01:37:07.439
take care, buddy.
1927
01:37:25.239 --> 01:37:27.720
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
1928
01:37:27.800 --> 01:37:31.079
or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
1929
01:37:31.199 --> 01:37:35.680
pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com.
1930
01:37:35.880 --> 01:37:38.399
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us
1931
01:37:38.520 --> 01:37:41.560
on Twitter at pw Torch and follow me at the
1932
01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:46.119
Wade Keller That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.
1933
01:37:47.840 --> 01:37:50.840
Searchings for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me.
1934
01:37:51.000 --> 01:37:54.520
Jason Powell host them the pre weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
1935
01:37:54.960 --> 01:37:57.239
Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis from
1936
01:37:57.279 --> 01:37:59.319
me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot Man, along
1937
01:37:59.359 --> 01:38:02.319
with other pro wrestling media members. Plus The Pro Wrestling
1938
01:38:02.359 --> 01:38:05.680
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
1939
01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:09.359
the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and
1940
01:38:09.479 --> 01:38:12.680
all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly.
1941
01:38:12.439 --> 01:38:14.000
At PW boom dot com.
1942
01:38:14.479 --> 01:38:17.000
Once again, that's PW boom dot com.
1943
01:38:18.800 --> 01:38:20.199
Thanks for listening to our podcast.
1944
01:38:20.279 --> 01:38:22.920
Did you know we also have a website pwtorch dot
1945
01:38:23.039 --> 01:38:26.920
com Daily news updates, editorials, and my live TV coverage
1946
01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:30.319
covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown and my live pay per
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01:38:30.399 --> 01:38:33.800
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01:38:33.800 --> 01:38:36.239
bookmark make it a daily stop. Visit us throughout the
1949
01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:38.760
day every day to keep up on breaking news and more.
1950
01:38:39.039 --> 01:38:41.640
That's pwtorch dot com.
1951
01:38:42.640 --> 01:38:45.640
Neet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
1952
01:38:45.920 --> 01:38:49.039
will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
1953
01:38:49.119 --> 01:38:52.560
Paradise at pew torch vip as we ask on the
1954
01:38:52.760 --> 01:38:55.319
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
1955
01:38:55.439 --> 01:38:59.800
great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan,
1956
01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:01.399
Europe or Mexico.
1957
01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:02.680
There's always a.
1958
01:39:02.680 --> 01:39:05.399
Place for residents past in the Paradise too, and we've
1959
01:39:05.479 --> 01:39:08.239
done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger
1960
01:39:08.359 --> 01:39:12.520
series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and
1961
01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:14.840
our eye was there when shows where our guests will
1962
01:39:14.920 --> 01:39:17.319
join me to talk about a classic bout that they
1963
01:39:17.359 --> 01:39:20.479
were in attendance for. We love variety and you can
1964
01:39:20.560 --> 01:39:24.039
expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW
1965
01:39:24.439 --> 01:39:27.720
tors VIP subscription information and a list of all the
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VIP benefits is available at PW Torch vip info dot com.
1967
01:39:32.520 --> 01:39:36.560
And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast
1968
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apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream
1969
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them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site.
1970
01:39:43.720 --> 01:39:44.760
See you in the Paradise.
1971
01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:48.439
One way that you can help us sustain our schedule
1972
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of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving
1973
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us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go
1974
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to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weight Keller Prosing
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a five star rating.
1977
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We hope you.
1978
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I think we've earned that score with our fast turnaround
1979
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times and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout
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01:40:06.359 --> 01:40:08.560
the week. So take a moment out for us and
1981
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do us favor and give us a five star rating.
1982
01:40:10.920 --> 01:40:13.520
And Apple Podcasts that helps us on search returns and
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helps us grow, And if you want, you can add
1984
01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:17.920
a few comments about what you like about the programs
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in the comments section.
1986
01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:19.680
Thank you so much.
1987
01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:27.359
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
1988
01:40:27.560 --> 01:40:30.840
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
1989
01:40:31.119 --> 01:40:35.119
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
1990
01:40:35.239 --> 01:40:37.680
look at this page in NXT's early history.
1991
01:40:38.640 --> 01:40:41.800
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
1992
01:40:41.920 --> 01:40:44.600
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
1993
01:40:44.680 --> 01:40:47.359
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
1994
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did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.
1995
01:40:52.479 --> 01:40:54.880
PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free
1996
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access to these shows and a ton of other VIP
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exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access
1998
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to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous
1999
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week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters
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dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming
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and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from
2002
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the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's
2003
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top newsmakers in the nineties and also our podcast library
2004
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dating back to the year two thousand and three. There's
2005
01:41:21.359 --> 01:41:25.640
no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that
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that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching
2007
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twenty years of podcasting, Go VIP and dive into our
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post pay per view roundtables are covered with some of
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your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews,
2010
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and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
2011
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Pw torch dot com slash go VIP. We have a
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VIP member and diving into our library. Pw torch dot
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com slash go vip