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00:00:07.087Hello and welcome to Visions, a machine vision and automation solutions podcast.
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00:00:11.307I'm your host, Jim Tatum, Senior Editor of Vision Systems Design,
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00:00:16.561and Visions is an Endeavor Business Media production from your friends at Vision Systems Design.
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00:00:21.637Here you'll find the latest on everything from end-user machine vision solutions
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00:00:26.673to trends, developments, and perspectives on all things machine vision and imaging.
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00:00:30.663Whether you've been working in the industry for a while or you're just starting
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00:00:34.873to take a closer look at it, this podcast is designed to grow your knowledge
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00:00:38.962and bring greater focus to your understanding of the imaging and machine vision industry.
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00:00:41.243And now, on to our show.
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00:00:45.987Well, hi everybody and welcome to Visions. Here's a question for you.
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00:00:49.852What if machine vision could do more than detect objects?
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00:00:54.096What if it could understand the world around it, predict what happens next,
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00:00:57.190and help machines make smarter decisions in real time?
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00:01:01.056Well, as it turns out, that's exactly what spatial intelligence,
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00:01:04.126a rapidly emerging AI capability, does.
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00:01:09.003And it's changing how vision systems, robots, and automation platforms interact
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00:01:09.890with the physical world.
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00:01:14.247Recently, Vision Systems Design's Head of Content, Sharon Spielman,
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00:01:18.770got to spend a few minutes with Hantz Fevry, CEO of Geolava,
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00:01:23.210a San Francisco-based company that specializes in spatial AI,
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00:01:27.802for a first-hand look at how spatial intelligence is reshaping industrial imaging,
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00:01:31.870system integration, and the future of AI on the factory floor.
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00:01:36.913Hello, everyone. Today, we are focusing on spatial intelligence,
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00:01:42.829the AI capability that lets vision systems understand and reason about the physical world in 3D.
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00:01:47.143This breakthrough is influencing the future of industrial imaging,
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00:01:48.907robotics, and automation.
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00:01:55.293Joining us today is Hantz Fevry, the CEO of Geolava, to share his insights on
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00:01:58.839how spatial intelligence is transforming vision system design,
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00:02:02.636integration, and practical deployment on the factory floor.
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00:02:05.114Thank you so much for being here today, Hantz.
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00:02:07.401Thank you very much for having me.
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00:02:14.386So I will just jump right in. In simple terms, what is spatial intelligence
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00:02:19.076for machine vision, and why is it getting so much attention right now?
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00:02:24.346Yeah, that's a good question. So spatial intelligence enables AI to perceive,
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00:02:29.066understand, and predict the physical world across space and time.
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00:02:35.336So it doesn't just recognize images. it represents the next evolution of AI
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00:02:41.597moving from just the perception into meaning. So basically the reasons with the physical world.
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00:02:46.566So if you think about AI systems today, you have one digital system talking
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00:02:48.457to another digital system.
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00:02:52.671Right now with spatial intelligence powered with world models,
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00:02:55.655we're able to bring AI to the physical world.
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00:03:00.722One key example is that a camera I can see a crack on the floor.
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00:03:05.856A spatial intelligence platform powered by a world model will understand why
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00:03:12.682it was formed, how it's evolving, and whether it will become a structural risk or not for a property.
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00:03:20.746Okay. Thank you for that. So how does spatial intelligence enhance vision systems'
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00:03:26.318ability to see and interpret complex industrial scenes? Yeah.
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00:03:31.156So, of course, it gives machines the understanding of the state,
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00:03:37.853the relationships, and the evolution of the physical environment that will allow them to basically,
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00:03:43.705reason about the entire scene instead of just detecting objects in isolation.
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00:03:48.813So instead of detecting, for example, a forklift and a worker separately,
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00:03:53.466it will understand there is a collision path, and because of the collision path,
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00:03:54.455there is something at rest.
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00:04:01.431So there is a bit more of the reasoning beyond just the perception or the object detection. Okay.
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00:04:07.489So what are the key technologies that are enabling the spatial understanding,
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00:04:09.288especially in terms of vision?
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00:04:15.331So it's a multi-modal platform. So a world model will focus a lot on the perception.
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00:04:18.621So leveraging different types of imagery, it can be optical,
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00:04:23.891LIDAR, thermal, 3D scene, and then as well as a contextual layer,
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00:04:29.191it can also bring some text data and then basically understand not only what
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00:04:31.735it's seeing, but the evolution of what it's able to see.
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00:04:35.841So this is how you'll be able to build those spatial intelligence that just
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00:04:41.391like a human, will be able to interact with the physical environment. Okay.
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00:04:47.699So what have you seen to be the biggest practical challenges when integrating
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00:04:51.835spatially intelligent vision systems in particular manufacturing?
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00:04:56.949Yes. So the challenge will be, it won't be only collecting data.
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00:05:02.899So it will be creating a reliable model that can continuously understand dynamic
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00:05:09.162environment, that can adapt to change, and integrate with existing industrial workflows.
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00:05:12.808So that most of the time are legacy systems.
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00:05:17.709So that is a bit of a challenge where you have an industry that works with a
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00:05:20.819lot of very solid workflows or systems.
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00:05:26.129And then you have that frontier AI model that can perceive, that can reason,
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00:05:28.120that can understand and predict.
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00:05:34.663And how do you make sure that the legacy system can work in tandem with those new technologies?
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00:05:44.775Okay. How does this spatial approach improve the flexibility and the accuracy over 2D vision systems?
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00:05:51.665Yeah, it improves it tremendously. So traditional systems in 2D will recognize
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00:05:53.879what's visible in a single image.
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00:05:59.199So it will recognize an object. It will try to make some measurement depending
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00:06:00.593on the type of imagery you're using.
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00:06:04.929With a spatial intelligence, you can really understand the physical world itself,
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00:06:10.142making it more robust, adaptable, and capable of anticipating future states.
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00:06:15.309And basically what you can do is that you not only understand the relationship
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00:06:21.765or the causal effects of a lot of features in the present, but also can forecast into the future.
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00:06:25.119So you go way beyond detecting objects.
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00:06:32.035All right. Can you talk a little bit about the role that AI-driven image processing algorithms play?
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00:06:41.438Yeah. So, AI, they transform raw observations into a structured representation of the physical world.
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00:06:44.440So, they can provide that foundation
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00:06:49.390for reasoning, for forecasting or prediction, and decision-making.
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00:06:54.550So with AI, you can be way more informed to understand not only what you see,
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00:06:59.392but how it evolved into that current state and how it will continue to evolve
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00:07:02.087into future states and forming better decisions.
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00:07:08.890Okay. How can the spatial intelligence help vision systems better handle the
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00:07:14.029tricky issues such as occlusions, reflections, inconsistent lighting?
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00:07:20.880Yes so when you focus a lot one image or set of images then this is where you're
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00:07:25.080gonna have those type of challenges but with a spatial intelligence or world
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00:07:27.720model instead of relying on a single image you can,
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00:07:33.790focus a lot on fusing information across sensors viewpoints time to infer and
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00:07:35.260what basically cannot be,
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00:07:40.380observed because the world model will be able to reconstruct beyond what it
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00:07:45.410sees from the from the pixel so in that case those type of challenges are no
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00:07:48.260longer present because of that reasoning aspect.
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00:07:53.900Similar to a human being sometimes the human being doesn't have to see a place
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00:07:57.440or a room with perfect lighting to be able to make an assessment you will be
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00:08:02.100able to understand or even forecast what it should be what should be there,
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00:08:06.269even without that perfect vision or clarity of the place.
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00:08:14.489Okay, so it's not, well, maybe it is. It's using AI to replace what it thinks
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00:08:18.134the lighting should be or replaces what the reflections are?
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00:08:22.529No, so basically what will happen typically on world model is that if the lighting
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00:08:26.661is not perfect there, so think of it as an image and there is a lot of mask
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00:08:31.709on top of that image, it will be able to predict what should be there even without
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00:08:33.123being able to see it perfectly.
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00:08:36.885It's because you don't understand causality and relationships.
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00:08:41.092So even if there's not a perfect environment, perfect lighting,
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00:08:45.127then with that spatial intelligence, it can still navigate and see through it.
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00:08:50.099But beyond that, the spatial intelligence, what it focuses on and what it's
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00:08:55.328good at is basically it's on the reasoning. So it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
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00:09:00.425If you're trying to make an observation of a place to detect a risk of a structure,
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00:09:04.689I don't know, any structural risk in that case, without the perfect lighting,
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00:09:09.495you can still have a level of understanding of that risk instead of focusing on,
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00:09:12.895a single image that will give you a binary answer.
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00:09:16.460Okay. What about on the factory floor?
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00:09:22.602More of our readers are into industrial manufacturing, so they're looking for
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00:09:26.629a solution on the actual factory floor, you know, with the machine vision that
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00:09:31.367they're using in, say, their inspection things on the manufacturing line.
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00:09:37.485So if I understand the question correctly, it's what is the application for
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00:09:42.225someone in the factory floor leveraging that compared to legacy system or legacy
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00:09:43.358computer vision systems.
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00:09:48.279So I would say right now in the factory floor, you can have a true co-pilot,
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00:09:53.745that not only help you understand and make faster analysis, but make analysis
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00:09:57.245for you and then help inform your final decisions.
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00:10:00.234So then the person in the factory floor becomes way more efficient.
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00:10:05.415And that spatial intelligence can be powered powering either a robot,
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00:10:09.645so this is where we're talking a lot about physical AI, or it can be powered just,
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00:10:15.827powering just a software and help make an analysis and help make some forecasting decisions.
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00:10:21.555So this is some of the many applications that can be used when we bring world
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00:10:24.279models to the factory floor. Okay, great.
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00:10:32.045So what advice would you give engineers and integrators for validating and benchmarking
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00:10:36.231these advanced vision systems? Yes.
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00:10:40.435So this is where hallucination will come in. And I think what's very important
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00:10:44.788is to benchmark real-world understanding, not just detection accuracy.
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00:10:48.665So it's important to measure how well the system generalizes,
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00:10:53.382reason about change, and predicts outcomes in an operational environment.
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00:10:58.265And then always measure against those key benchmark, which is not easy,
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00:11:03.555but also not impossible to do. So the real test is not whether it detects a
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00:11:08.584defect today, but whether it predicts the defect before it becomes a failure.
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00:11:13.013And what is that benchmark? What is that ground truth of a defect?
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00:11:14.654So that will be basically...
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00:11:20.404The advice I would share for any engineer who are trying to implement any world
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00:11:22.663model or spatial intelligence system to their workflow.
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00:11:28.424So from your perspective, how will spatial intelligence change the future of
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00:11:31.292vision hardware and software design?
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00:11:38.494Yes. So right now I think vision system or passive perception that detect objects
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00:11:41.282that basically make sometimes some connections.
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00:11:47.014But right now, those vision systems will evolve from passive perception tools
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00:11:52.654into world models that continuously perceive, understand, and simulate the physical world.
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00:11:57.571So just as language models became the intelligence layer for text,
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00:12:02.974world models will become the intelligence layer for the physical environments. Okay.
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00:12:09.254So what should manufacturing leaders focus on to build confidence and readiness
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00:12:13.759for adopting these new spatially intelligent vision technologies?
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00:12:15.760That's a great question.
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00:12:22.834I would say to start with measurable business outcomes. To invest in high-quality
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00:12:28.774multimodal data and prioritize platforms that continuously learn and improve
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00:12:31.003as the physical world changes.
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00:12:36.714So for example, so beginning with a production line where reducing downtime
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00:12:42.474by 10% delivers an immediate and measurable return on investment rather than
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00:12:44.746just testing the spatial intelligence,
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00:12:47.494for the sake of having a new technology there.
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00:12:52.994Because sometimes some legacy system are robust and work, and the spatial intelligence
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00:12:57.204on a new system can only be useful in a very, very specific use cases.
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00:13:02.486So basically identify those use cases and implement the spatial intelligence or world model there.
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00:13:09.755Do you want to tell me a little bit about GeoLava and how long it's been around,
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00:13:11.015how long you've been the CEO?
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00:13:16.225You could tell us about that. Sure. So I've been working in AI for the past
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00:13:21.72210 years. I was working at Google as part of Speech that is now part of Google DeepMind.
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00:13:27.535So I work a lot on deep learning. So after Google, I built a company that we
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00:13:32.335sold in 2024, and now we're building GeoLava. And DualLava, what we're doing
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00:13:35.173is we're bringing AI to the physical world.
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00:13:41.505We're building a world model for critical infrastructure and properties so people
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00:13:45.788can not only understand their current state, but forecast their future state.
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00:13:50.972So that's what we've been working on. And our team more from DeepMind,
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00:13:54.465Apple, Meta, with very strong experience in computer vision,
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00:13:58.063as you mentioned, and as well, AI in those frontier models.
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00:14:02.735Okay, great. Right. Is there anything else you want to tell our audience?
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00:14:09.800They are the engineers and the engineering managers at OEMs with machine vision and image processing.
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00:14:12.029So what would you like to say to them?
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00:14:17.185I would like to say to definitely make a lot of research on world models and
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00:14:21.625not to confuse VLMs or LLM for world model. They're very, very different.
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00:14:27.635And yes, as I mentioned before, to try to see where a world model or a spatial
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00:14:31.574intelligence can bring value in measurable ways.
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00:14:37.945And yeah, in my opinion, the world model will revolutionize the AI in the physical
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00:14:43.375world the same way LLM revolutionized AI with X. Great.
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00:14:49.275Well, thank you so much, Hantz, for joining us today and providing this information.
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00:14:54.295It's going to be a really exciting time in our industry as we move into this
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00:14:58.873physical AI space. So I really appreciate you speaking with us today.
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00:15:01.206Thank you very much. I appreciate the time.
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00:15:07.249Well, that's a wrap for this episode of Visions, produced by Endeavor Business
00:15:07.249 -->
00:15:09.931Media, a division of Endeavor B2B.
00:15:10.273 -->
00:15:13.269Thanks very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's show,
00:15:13.269 -->
00:15:17.079be sure to subscribe to the podcast and share this episode with a colleague
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00:15:18.017who would find it helpful.
00:15:18.679 -->
00:15:24.579Until our next episode, you can find us at vision-systems.com or on LinkedIn,
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00:15:29.215Facebook, or X for more insights, updates, and breaking news to keep you in the know.
00:15:29.987 -->
00:15:33.673Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, stay focused on your visions.