Chris Isaac

WEBVTT
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Welcome to Vigilance Unplugged, an eloquent life sciences podcast where we explore
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the stories, experiences and ideas that shape careers across life sciences.
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Before we begin, a quick disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this
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podcast are those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the official
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policy or position of Eloquent Life Sciences, or indeed their own company.
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This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered
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professional or legal advice.
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Today, we're joined by a special guest who will share their own journey,
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the experiences that shaped their career, the lessons they've learned,
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and the reflections on the future of life sciences.
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And today's guest is chris isaacs who is the region europe patient safety manager
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for circe in novatis and he is also
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the president of piper i think that is the longest title i've ever had to read out loud welcome chris
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Thanks indy pleasure to be here glad to be here it's taken in a while but we're here so great.
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Thanks chris and so obviously the first question i'm going to ask is like how
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how did you how did you arrive here how did you get into life sciences and how
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did you get to that position that you you were because you
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you started off i believe at university University of Greenwich in marketing.
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Yes, correct. I think like many people I've spoken to, I kind of fell into the
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role in pharmacovigilance.
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I originally, I mean, taking it all the way back to when I was at school,
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I was really fond of the subjects, biology and any type of science and also business studies.
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I think at that time, I didn't really think that I was good enough to do a scientific role or a job.
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I think not many people, I guess, at school age really know anything about pharmacovigilance,
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something that hopefully will change in the future.
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But I didn't know anything about pharmacovigilance. I thought being in a scientific
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job was essentially in a lab or a doctor and I didn't think I was going to be,
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clever enough to do that so I went down the route of.
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Business studies when I went to university and that's how I got into marketing
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and not and I don't mean any anything negative towards anyone doing a marketing
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job it's I mean I spent three years realizing that I that job wasn't for me,
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I thought it was all about advertising you know the tv advertisements that you see on tv,
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whereas it took me three years to realize it was more around communications
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and and you know what you post on on websites and email shots and things like
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that and that's not really really me so yeah it took me three years to realize that,
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but I I came out of university,
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needed a job needed some money it just so happened that I at the time lived
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just around the corner from the the big site the big J&J site in High Wycombe,
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so they were looking for a,
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safety coordinator role someone who could pick up the clinical trial faxes off
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the fax machine and do a bit of data entry,
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so I'm sure you kind of remember those days and and yeah got the well I didn't
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actually get the job originally,
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I went for the interview I was told unfortunately I didn't get the role and and that was that,
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so I thought you know let's move on to the next the next opportunity and I actually
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got a call back a few weeks later to say that the person who did get the role
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that their background didn't check out so they called me back and I got the job,
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so that's kind of how I got into pharmacovigilance.
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Picking up the faxes, doing a bit of date entry. And I don't know if anyone out there who,
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worked for Johnson & Johnson a long time ago, but you used to get these outputs
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every month for your one-to-ones to show you how your productivity was compared
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to the average of the team.
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And I always had the mindset that when I was at school, I had fun.
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And when it got to work, I was going to get serious things were going to get serious so,
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you know I really put the hard work in and every month these these out these
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productivity worksheets that we got came out saying that I was sort of 200 percent
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higher than the average so I was really sort,
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of I was a contractor so in my mind I thought if I don't work hard I'm going
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to get sacked so I'd always really put in the effort and it was always coming
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out that I was doing really well so,
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I thought great And then a permanent job came up as a safety associate,
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the next level up, a bit more data entry.
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You know, I wasn't allowed to enter certain fields and the job came up for the
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next level. And I thought, brilliant, I can go for this.
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My productivity, they've got it on paper, looks really good.
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And straight away, I was told that, you know, company policy,
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you can't get a job as an associate without having a science degree.
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And I've always been someone who, when I'm told I can't do something,
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I like to try and prove that I can.
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Not to an extreme, but I want to show that actually I am able to achieve that
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if I put my mind to it. So I thought, OK, the evidence is there that I'm working really hard.
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My productivity is really high, but company policy is I'm not going to get this next role.
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So I decided to move to a different company and that was when I moved to Ipsom,
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at Ipsom Biopharm as a data entry specialist,
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they accepted me for not having a science degree although I did actually decide
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that you know I realized very early on that I wouldn't be able to progress in
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this industry without having a science degree so,
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I actually went back to do an open university degree in life sciences at that
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point in time i was actually working i still had like a weekend job from the
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job i had at university so i was working seven days a week and doing a full full time degree,
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and that that was not easy it really wasn't easy but um it was worth it in the
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end because when i was you know i finished that degree and it meant i could
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progress through the different levels within pharmacovigilance.
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That's fascinating because obviously it's very very similar to my to my origin
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story but the difference between me and you was
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i did not want to do any more education so i i i went towards the tech side
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because i i couldn't get further in my career
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whereas you had the determination and
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i don't know the the bloody mindedness
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i suppose to to do all three at the same time have a weekend job
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A
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Day job and to also do a degree at the same time that's just nuts
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Yeah and I think it's um even now you know I take on various different responsibilities at work,
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I take on responsibilities outside of work you just you think you don't have
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time but you you just find time I have two young children
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I look at someone who has three or four children I think how do you do it how
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do you because I think I struggle with two so how do you do it three or four
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but you just like you just do it you just find time so,
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I when I was working seven days a week and my weekend job was actually working
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in a betting shop because I was working in the betting shop in when I was at university and,
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I would open up the shop in the morning and we used to open up at something
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like seven o'clock in the morning I mean how many people are going out gambling
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at seven o'clock in the morning there's not many so I actually had the opportunity to do some homework or
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do some some work whilst we didn't have anyone in the shop.
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So you get clever about how you use your time.
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Because otherwise, yeah, you just wouldn't be able to do it.
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But yeah, so I managed to get through these.
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Because of the way it worked, I was able to use certain credits from my previous
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degree, even though it wasn't scientific.
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And so I managed to complete that in two years.
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But I have to admit, it was more a box ticking exercise than really fully understanding
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every single part of that degree.
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That's probably something that if i could go back i would go back and do it
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slightly differently just because if to me at the time it was just to tick the box to progress,
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it's like many things that we did at school you learn things at school you think
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i'm never going to apply this in my real life and so i thought you know,
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for a role in pharmacovigilance for instance do i need to know micro sorry molecular
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biology i'd possibly not depending on what you do.
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If you know if you're a medic and you're medically reviewing cases,
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maybe, but I'm not going to be a medic.
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So for me, it was about box ticking, which is something I would love to have
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maybe done differently, but it got me to where I needed to be.
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It got that name on the CV, that education on the CV, which is what you needed to progress.
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I did that. I think I finished that when I was still at Ipsum because I was
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there for a couple of years.
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Again, it got to a point where I felt like I needed a new challenge.
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So at that point was when I moved to Daiichi Sankyo as a, it was called a technical associate.
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I remember because I originally went for like a senior associate role and I didn't get it.
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It was a bit of a current theme here but i didn't get it but they said to me
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that they had this other role that they were looking at doing and that actually
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that would fit and it was called a technical associate,
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which was basically looking at the workload and and handing the workload out
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to people and and also doing some of the cases as well but you kind of had an
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extra extra job to do which i didn't mind i it was good experience new new challenge
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the only thing i didn't like was they tend to,
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they tend to um shorten the names whenever the job titles whenever you see an
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official document so technical associate became techie ass which wasn't wasn't great.
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But yeah so i was there for a few years again
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on my cv you kind of see that the experience a year and a half at each place
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and then i seem to move on and i seem to get get bored and want a new challenge
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and i think that's quite important because the generation before us you know
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my parents were that generation where you You probably stayed at a company for most of your life.
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You wouldn't really move around. And I think that's definitely something that's
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changed now, especially with a lot of contracting within the industry.
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You get people moving around, getting lots of different experiences before they
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may settle in a long-term permanent role.
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But yeah, I ended up moving after
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about a year and a half to two years to Novartis as a senior associate.
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Again, new experience, completely different to what Daiichi and Ibsen were before,
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a global pharmaceutical company, massive global pharmaceutical company,
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very complex in the way that they work because they had various different...
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Back then, I think they had animal health, they had the vaccines,
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they had generics and the pharma side. So there was quite a lot going on.
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Again, I was there for about a year and a half and I got this job straight away.
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Actually, that's probably the first job I got straight away.
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I was there for about a year and a half and then I had the opportunity and due
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to personal circumstances, I decided to move up to the Midlands.
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So I was based down south before, but there was a job opportunity going at a CRO up in the Midlands.
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That was a very interesting experience because it was a brand new department
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they had moved their operations from a country in europe over to the uk so it was a very new team,
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it was just the processes were established in a different country but they worked
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very differently to how we worked in the uk so it was basically coming up with
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a new team and training a new team and putting new processes in from scratch,
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which I really enjoyed the challenge, but it was tough.
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It was probably like 12 to 14 hour days.
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And you've got clients at the same time. So it's quite difficult to build a
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department at the same time as actually be quite operational with the clients as well.
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And funnily enough, I always thought the clients were the ones that were going
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to be difficult. You know, you kind of think with a CRO, it's going to be hard.
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The clients are going to want everything and you'll not be able to do everything.
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But actually, I must admit, I found that different. I found it is actually the
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departments within the company that would be more difficult.
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Client side i think it's because i'm i'm quite a sociable guy i quite like meeting
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new people hence why i'm in the position i'm now you know with piper,
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but i i really like meeting new people learning new things you know performing new activities so,
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it for me it was great and the clients were great and i had some really good
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times with the clients just really just generally got on with them i found it was kind of the,
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the issues that came up within departments and and i say this you know you can
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look at my CV and you can see who the company is I work for but I think it's
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the same in most companies probably most CROs as well you always get the business
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development team offering something that you may not necessarily do,
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and that was always an interesting thing an interesting conversation to have,
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but yeah it was it was great it was just it was hard it was really hard work but it was.
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I think to progress in your career you you need to kind of differentiate yourself
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and you need to come up with ways that are going to set your CV out from the
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rest you're going to stand out from the rest because.
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Otherwise, I'll give you an example. Just before the role I do,
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so the role I currently do at Novartis, my former role was UK patient safety head.
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And I had people come to me and say that their expectation of having some time
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as part of their normal role to develop, which I think is actually now a generational thing.
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I think that in my generation you didn't really have that and people may think
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I'm wrong for saying this but I don't think I had that time in nothing nothing
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in my job description said I had time to.
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Work on my development it just happened as part of on the job activities,
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but I think there's an expectation now with the generation that's sort of entered into
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the industry with or probably across most industries where they want to have
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that time to develop and that's great but it's also relative because if you
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have time to develop someone else is going to have the same amount of time and
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everyone else is going to have the same amount of time,
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so again in order to differentiate yourself or,
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make your CV stand out you need to do something extra so I always think it's
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either some some kind of project at work big project or some kind of extracurricular
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activity is the thing that's gonna,
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gonna help you out so it's all well and good having that time to develop at
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work but if everyone else is the same time you're in the same boat as everyone else again so,
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so i really i think working for that cro really helped because from on my cv
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you could see that i basically built a department from scratch that really helped
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i think when it came to getting to where i am now.
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And to be fair that was quite early on in your career
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Fairly, yeah. I mean, if you look at the number of jobs I've had since,
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I've only had one. I went back to Novartis afterwards.
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But I've been back at Novartis now eight years. So I mentioned earlier about
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getting the experience, spending a year and a half in each place and moving on.
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But I've now settled back at Novartis. I don't think I realized how much I enjoyed
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working in a Novartis until I left. And then I luckily had the opportunity to come back.
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I did have a bit of a career gap in between. I think it's important to spend
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the time doing something that you want to do and not sort of dwell on it or,
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think about it for all your life and then realize you've missed the chance to do it.
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So I did spend the year traveling but then when I came back I luckily got the
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opportunity to go back to Novartis so yeah it's still fairly early on I guess
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I was probably about six seven years into my career,
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and I think CROs are really good for that really good for the experience it's.
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Time is money, right? So you only do the things you need to do.
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I remember when I started working for Johnson & Johnson, I knew nothing but
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the SOPs or the standard operating procedures.
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So I think at the time, because your,
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operating procedures will say, okay, for fatal or life-threatening cases,
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they have to be completed within five days for a clinical trial case,
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maybe because it's seven days to the health authorities.
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I'm probably getting it all wrong now I can't remember I do a very different job these days so,
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I in my head I thought it was five days because that's what the the SOP says,
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with a CRO everything is done by the regulation because that's it if it's a,
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if you're going to do something,
00:17:36.628 --> 00:17:41.075
extra like a pharmaceutical company might you wouldn't do that in a CRO because
00:17:41.075 --> 00:17:45.995
it costs money it's time and it costs money so you just do the the bare minimum of what's needed uh,
00:17:47.225 --> 00:17:52.045
to get by an inspection and then that's that's it so that may not be true for
00:17:52.045 --> 00:17:57.245
all CROs but that that's that that was my experience so that really helped me
00:17:57.245 --> 00:18:00.339
understand the legislation the regulations,
00:18:01.766 --> 00:18:06.295
and I realized at that point that that that that was quite different to to the
00:18:06.295 --> 00:18:11.755
experience that I first my my initial thought of how the industry or how the
00:18:11.755 --> 00:18:15.716
regulations worked so working for CRO was really really useful.
00:18:16.885 --> 00:18:23.825
I think I think that in itself is really really important because one of the
00:18:23.825 --> 00:18:29.781
things I say about consulting I when I first went into consulting my first stint in consulting I
00:18:30.565 --> 00:18:35.066
I had a good time but it ended pretty badly and
00:18:36.425 --> 00:18:42.853
I never wanted to be a consultant again and the second time I'm a consultant I've
00:18:44.234 --> 00:18:48.590
I've really enjoyed looking at younger members of the team and how they grow.
00:18:48.590 --> 00:19:00.317
And it suddenly struck me that you learn so much, so much quicker when you are outside of a specific
00:19:01.450 --> 00:19:06.770
Pharma biotech, simply because you have the knowledge of having looked at things
00:19:06.770 --> 00:19:08.124
from a much higher level.
00:19:08.512 --> 00:19:14.950
So you can see things like oh that is just a very specific qc step that you
00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:20.429
have simply because you got a inspection finding 23 years ago
00:19:21.195 --> 00:19:26.685
and you know depending on projects and stuff you do you can see it throughout
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:29.102
every single company and
00:19:30.167 --> 00:19:34.780
it's really interesting i hopefully will get into this later But
00:19:35.514 --> 00:19:43.110
this is why I also find it funny when people offer standardized workflows or
00:19:43.110 --> 00:19:46.130
standardized software or whatever.
00:19:46.170 --> 00:19:53.720
It's like the reasons why PV is not standardized is all in the context of the
00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.595
company that's doing the pharmacovigilance.
00:19:57.355 --> 00:20:00.009
And you only get to see that when you're outside.
00:20:00.944 --> 00:20:04.607
And even if you were to go from one pharma company to the next,
00:20:04.908 --> 00:20:07.823
you would just say, oh, these are just nuances between the company.
00:20:08.182 --> 00:20:10.730
But like I said, when you take that sort of higher view, and I'm guessing it's
00:20:10.730 --> 00:20:15.020
the same for a CRO where you have a higher view, you're like,
00:20:15.020 --> 00:20:17.517
oh, okay, no, everyone is completely different now.
00:20:18.695 --> 00:20:23.457
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's, yeah, each, each client wanted something different.
00:20:23.457 --> 00:20:29.225
And that was, that was probably the challenge was trying to get them to work
00:20:29.411 --> 00:20:33.544
in the same way, because, and the way that you knew would work.
00:20:34.552 --> 00:20:37.637
Because yeah it would normally come down to an inspection finding or something
00:20:37.637 --> 00:20:40.595
where they've over committed to doing something that actually.
00:20:42.297 --> 00:20:45.765
It really didn't warrant that much of a commitment,
00:20:46.661 --> 00:20:49.327
and because of that that kind of puts you in a bit of a difficult situation
00:20:49.327 --> 00:20:54.045
because you in a CRO you don't want to do everything completely differently for every single client,
00:20:54.550 --> 00:20:57.877
and quite a lot of the time your system limitations will not allow you to do
00:20:57.877 --> 00:21:02.592
that and that's the challenge of of negotiating that that process,
00:21:03.590 --> 00:21:09.947
and sometimes it i think it's better just to let the vendor do what they they
00:21:09.947 --> 00:21:15.407
know how to do because you're trusting them with your whatever process it is um,
00:21:16.977 --> 00:21:20.907
because they are the ones that are supposed to have the expertise so why would you then,
00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.527
argue that and say well actually we believe it should be done this way okay
00:21:25.527 --> 00:21:29.007
if you believe it's done that way why are you not doing it obviously it comes
00:21:29.007 --> 00:21:33.368
on things like FTE and so headcount and budgets and things like that but,
00:21:34.454 --> 00:21:37.807
ultimately I think sometimes it is easier if you just let the vendor do what
00:21:37.807 --> 00:21:42.736
they they know how to do and and I think yeah that that was that was a challenge but,
00:21:44.137 --> 00:21:51.357
I think if you're able just to show them the benefits of what you're doing that
00:21:51.357 --> 00:21:53.011
generally they would align with you,
00:21:53.690 --> 00:21:56.147
and actually i think i just had really good clients because they would they
00:21:56.147 --> 00:21:57.417
were always kind of said to me,
00:21:58.037 --> 00:22:01.667
you know do what you need to do i think it was more a case that they didn't
00:22:01.667 --> 00:22:04.977
really want to get bogged down in the details they just want to know it's compliant
00:22:04.977 --> 00:22:08.838
and it's being done as long as you could show them that was happening and they were happy.
00:22:10.112 --> 00:22:14.118
Fair. So you ended up at Novartis again.
00:22:14.478 --> 00:22:17.960
Yeah. Yeah. And it's been a lot longer than a year and a half.
00:22:22.540 --> 00:22:26.850
Yeah. When I went back in 2018, I went back as an operations manager.
00:22:26.850 --> 00:22:28.271
So what they call a group head.
00:22:28.770 --> 00:22:33.660
So that's looking after a certain group of associates on a particular process.
00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:34.950
And mine was case processing.
00:22:35.862 --> 00:22:39.200
And that was sort of bringing in the adverse events, shipping them off to the vendor,
00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:45.780
vendor oversight ensuring the submissions were were done on time and then I think within a year,
00:22:46.543 --> 00:22:52.070
we had a change of head within the patient safety team and then the new head
00:22:52.070 --> 00:22:55.756
went on I think maternity leave quite quickly so I ended up as the ad interim
00:22:55.924 --> 00:23:00.951
patient safety head for UK but also for Ireland as well and we had a kind of cluster,
00:23:02.310 --> 00:23:06.340
and then the the personal maternity leave never actually came back into that
00:23:06.340 --> 00:23:09.280
role they went and they moved into a new role so i ended up,
00:23:10.020 --> 00:23:15.360
as a permanent patient safety head or cluster head for uk and ireland and then
00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:20.880
it just kind of progressed on from there to to what was it january 2025 so last year,
00:23:21.677 --> 00:23:26.600
i had the opportunity to move into a more regional role so that's looking after
00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:30.700
what we like to call in inovatis sir say so south Southeastern Europe,
00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:31.998
Russia, and Central Europe.
00:23:32.899 --> 00:23:37.640
So it's around 31 countries of which we have patient safety presence.
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.077
Well, a patient safety head in 13 of them.
00:23:42.507 --> 00:23:50.599
And then you have clusters within that as well. So it's definitely a much more challenging role.
00:23:51.258 --> 00:23:54.781
But again, because I'm, as I said before, I'm quite sociable.
00:23:54.781 --> 00:23:58.938
So I really enjoy working with many different people.
00:24:00.651 --> 00:24:04.644
One thing I didn't realize until I did the job was every single country is just so different.
00:24:05.511 --> 00:24:10.801
So, so different. Even within the company and the company rules on certain things
00:24:10.801 --> 00:24:12.187
is just completely different.
00:24:12.564 --> 00:24:16.091
So one person will say to me something i'll go oh well they yeah we do this
00:24:16.091 --> 00:24:22.390
way and they're like no we don't hear it's okay i'm sorry i'm getting used to that a lot now so,
00:24:23.092 --> 00:24:27.001
it's yeah it's it's really interesting just to see how each country is different
00:24:27.001 --> 00:24:31.741
in in how they work in the company just the geographical location of countries
00:24:31.741 --> 00:24:34.130
and and the history behind it the,
00:24:34.577 --> 00:24:38.201
the politics behind it there's a lot a lot to learn,
00:24:38.810 --> 00:24:41.771
i think from from countries over that side of europe.
00:24:43.471 --> 00:24:47.931
I think um that's completely fascinating and and during your time since you've
00:24:47.931 --> 00:24:53.915
been back at Novartis that's when you got back involved or sorry involved with with Piper is that
00:24:54.108 --> 00:25:00.161
Right yeah so when I first I actually did a stint with the ABPI first or first
00:25:00.161 --> 00:25:08.023
off so it was right when I became the interim country patient safety head in the UK that I I was,
00:25:09.751 --> 00:25:16.771
actually asked to go for this position on what was called at the time a strategic leadership team for,
00:25:17.411 --> 00:25:21.563
it was a regulatory I forget what the name is now regulatory strategic leadership
00:25:21.894 --> 00:25:27.081
group within the ABPI and that actually ended up being about 12 people on a
00:25:27.081 --> 00:25:30.035
quite a high level task force in terms of,
00:25:31.886 --> 00:25:36.748
I guess, looking at some of the government policies and gaining feedback from
00:25:36.748 --> 00:25:40.898
companies and updating certain documents. And to be honest.
00:25:43.598 --> 00:25:47.262
I'm the type of person that will always push myself out of my comfort zone.
00:25:47.628 --> 00:25:52.318
Again, because I think it helps. If you want to progress, you have to say yes to things.
00:25:52.318 --> 00:25:55.128
You have to just, you have to try. And sometimes things don't work out.
00:25:55.128 --> 00:25:59.298
And I have to say, this is probably one of those times where I felt out of my depth.
00:25:59.298 --> 00:26:02.101
It was it was quite challenging i mean i i,
00:26:03.012 --> 00:26:08.108
i did it i i really pushed myself to to do the best i could but it was it was
00:26:08.108 --> 00:26:12.298
talking about things like plastic tax you know i have no from coming from pharmacovigilance
00:26:12.298 --> 00:26:16.595
it's not really something that that i was an expert on so,
00:26:17.618 --> 00:26:20.788
i yeah i must admit i found that challenging but it was a really good experience
00:26:20.788 --> 00:26:23.810
really good good bunch of people really enjoyed,
00:26:24.678 --> 00:26:29.798
the discussions that we had I just felt that maybe I couldn't offer exactly
00:26:29.798 --> 00:26:33.135
what they wanted and I don't I don't really want to,
00:26:33.857 --> 00:26:38.488
take that position away from someone else so I was lucky because I I had a child
00:26:38.488 --> 00:26:40.358
at the same time so I went on paternity leave and I,
00:26:40.918 --> 00:26:44.448
I could I could use that as a as a way of saying you know someone else can take
00:26:44.448 --> 00:26:49.239
over it's probably I don't want to don't want to take up that space any longer,
00:26:49.939 --> 00:26:54.142
but as I say again even if you feel out of your depth and you feel like it hasn't
00:26:54.333 --> 00:26:58.688
kind of worked how you wanted it to, it's still a really good experience and
00:26:58.688 --> 00:27:00.241
I'm definitely better off for doing it.
00:27:01.318 --> 00:27:05.338
It was after that probably about six, I'm trying to think what the dates were,
00:27:05.338 --> 00:27:09.005
but it was around December 2021 after I'd come back from paternity leave that
00:27:09.417 --> 00:27:12.139
I actually joined Piper as a committee member.
00:27:12.918 --> 00:27:18.060
And I think I settled into that role much, much better than I did in the ABPI.
00:27:18.306 --> 00:27:24.278
It was much more around the expertise at least I had guidance documents on GBP
00:27:24.278 --> 00:27:29.438
modules and after Brexit, the UK version of it as well,
00:27:30.607 --> 00:27:36.714
it was also about how we market ourselves to people so I finally had a use for
00:27:36.714 --> 00:27:39.274
this degree I did I spent three years doing,
00:27:40.129 --> 00:27:43.704
and and so it was just it was very varied as well and it just meant you could
00:27:43.704 --> 00:27:47.854
get involved in whatever you as much as you wanted to or as little as you wanted
00:27:47.854 --> 00:27:49.832
to and it was just a great experience,
00:27:50.384 --> 00:27:56.351
and since then you know time's flown I can't believe it was it was what five years ago that I joined,
00:27:57.137 --> 00:28:01.064
and it's been two years since I've been president and it all happened quite
00:28:01.064 --> 00:28:04.594
quickly but it's it's been a fantastic journey i have to say,
00:28:05.494 --> 00:28:08.954
the people there at piper are really just they're just so great to work with and,
00:28:10.334 --> 00:28:14.714
i i have so much fun you know we we spend so much time at work that for me work
00:28:14.714 --> 00:28:19.044
has to be fun even if we do we do a very serious job it still has to be fun so,
00:28:20.714 --> 00:28:26.522
i i yeah i i've i've really enjoyed the time i've spent with piper and let it continue.
00:28:27.594 --> 00:28:35.541
I think a lot of us, especially UK-based, will have familiar feelings with Piper.
00:28:35.924 --> 00:28:45.544
Obviously, one of my many bosses was Sue Reese, who was very encouraging of
00:28:45.544 --> 00:28:49.502
us to go to Piper events and be involved with Piper.
00:28:50.336 --> 00:28:53.500
And I'll never forget, again, very early in my career,
00:28:55.375 --> 00:29:00.563
looking forward to the magazine that came yeah and reading the articles yeah
00:29:00.563 --> 00:29:07.558
yeah the physical the physical magazine not the i i remember when it shifted to email and i think i
00:29:08.063 --> 00:29:12.001
i read it less but i remember the physical one was such an exciting
00:29:12.738 --> 00:29:16.623
i remember all of us were members of piper in in the department so everyone
00:29:16.623 --> 00:29:21.933
just got this envelope on their desk and it was like right that's a that's something
00:29:21.933 --> 00:29:23.361
to read for the next two weeks
00:29:23.756 --> 00:29:29.143
I i think that they i think we would have definitely continued the the the paper
00:29:29.143 --> 00:29:32.623
magazines if it wasn't really for the shift after covid you know now many people
00:29:32.623 --> 00:29:36.093
aren't even in the office anymore but but that's the feedback we get from just,
00:29:36.603 --> 00:29:40.043
even just within the piper committee as well everyone used to love the fact
00:29:40.043 --> 00:29:41.923
you used to have an actual physical magazine,
00:29:42.585 --> 00:29:46.413
we've tried to save the trees a little bit you know by by having it online but
00:29:46.413 --> 00:29:49.970
also it's it's also to do with covid and ever since covid there's just you,
00:29:50.725 --> 00:29:54.103
know we all work in a different way we don't go to the office as much for us
00:29:54.103 --> 00:29:58.343
this was more accessible but the pipeline is is something that and we've changed it now as well,
00:29:59.003 --> 00:30:03.326
probably what about a year ago to the the micro pipeline editions as well so,
00:30:03.901 --> 00:30:08.213
the idea is that we have them every sort of now and again we'll come out with
00:30:08.213 --> 00:30:12.675
a few articles of interest rather than trying to save them up for one big edition,
00:30:13.139 --> 00:30:17.461
just to keep the the energy going and and keep people you know in in the know.
00:30:18.843 --> 00:30:24.243
I think that's fantastic. And Piper itself,
00:30:25.338 --> 00:30:28.033
I mean, you said that you've only been there for five years,
00:30:28.033 --> 00:30:34.301
but has the organization changed in what I would remember when I was younger
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:36.391
in my career to where it is now?
00:30:37.363 --> 00:30:39.485
What really is it focusing on right now?
00:30:40.187 --> 00:30:44.938
Yeah, so I've seen the change just in those five years because we had this big,
00:30:45.466 --> 00:30:48.540
emphasis on the guidance documents when I first started.
00:30:49.592 --> 00:30:52.792
And it was like a big thing to update a guidance document. Now,
00:30:52.792 --> 00:30:53.942
that's the bread and butter.
00:30:55.642 --> 00:31:03.142
You pay your membership fee and the guidance documents are the minimum that you should be getting.
00:31:03.142 --> 00:31:07.872
And that, for me, is we don't even really talk about guidance documents anymore.
00:31:07.872 --> 00:31:12.422
When something is updated legislation-wise, we just update the guidance documents.
00:31:12.742 --> 00:31:14.861
We don't sit there and discuss them. They just get done.
00:31:15.575 --> 00:31:19.242
We now discuss what we consider the bigger things.
00:31:19.242 --> 00:31:22.752
And say what what can we do to reinvest some of the money what can we do in
00:31:22.752 --> 00:31:26.852
terms of the membership what can we can we what types of webinars or different
00:31:26.852 --> 00:31:28.776
webinars can we do we tried um,
00:31:29.435 --> 00:31:33.862
a nutritionist webinar at the start of the year to gauge how that might go and
00:31:33.862 --> 00:31:37.309
we know we we rather than trying to sort of bring in safe,
00:31:37.775 --> 00:31:42.692
people to speak for free at webinars we looked at paying people for for certain
00:31:42.692 --> 00:31:46.332
types of webinars you know again reinvesting that money into the membership
00:31:46.332 --> 00:31:47.787
and because as a not-for-profit,
00:31:48.298 --> 00:31:51.112
we don't we don't take any money from the business everything that we make will
00:31:51.112 --> 00:31:54.282
go straight back into the business and towards the membership so,
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.682
we're always looking at the new ideas that we can do,
00:31:57.282 --> 00:32:00.592
to serve the membership so this year we're actually we've talked about it a
00:32:00.592 --> 00:32:04.822
lot about branching into europe a bit more because a lot of the guidance documents
00:32:04.822 --> 00:32:09.884
that we do are based on gvp modules yes you have the the mha version of it now,
00:32:10.637 --> 00:32:14.335
but still we have we have those guidance documents so there's no reason why
00:32:14.486 --> 00:32:16.732
we don't we can't have of more members in Europe.
00:32:17.517 --> 00:32:21.552
And we will be at the for the first time ever we will be at the world patient
00:32:21.552 --> 00:32:25.072
safety congress now it's called i believe for the first time this year we will
00:32:25.072 --> 00:32:29.816
be there this year with an exhibition stand which as i say is the first time we've ever done that so.
00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:36.245
That that for me is a real achievement because ideally we can raise our awareness in europe,
00:32:36.890 --> 00:32:41.158
and increase our membership but also not just increase the membership but it
00:32:41.158 --> 00:32:45.368
will give us an opportunity to look at more things if we have if we do have
00:32:45.368 --> 00:32:48.284
that that intake from europe we have that,
00:32:48.950 --> 00:32:53.658
reason that incentive to go and do more european,
00:32:54.394 --> 00:32:58.168
themed activities or or look at some of the.
00:32:58.988 --> 00:33:03.478
The EMA Q&As and guidance documents on some of those and just things like that
00:33:03.478 --> 00:33:07.938
it really it gives us more to branch out on and then maybe that means we increase
00:33:07.938 --> 00:33:11.588
the membership so that I don't know for the listeners I don't know or even how many of,
00:33:12.168 --> 00:33:13.748
the membership know that we have
00:33:13.748 --> 00:33:18.029
a constitution in Piper that kind of sets out what we can and cannot do,
00:33:18.701 --> 00:33:22.828
and we're limited to a certain number of people in in the committee and we can
00:33:22.828 --> 00:33:24.308
change the constitution that
00:33:24.308 --> 00:33:28.288
gets voted in at the AGM every year if there are any changes but we can,
00:33:28.978 --> 00:33:33.692
we can increase that so we can have a european branch as such if we needed to,
00:33:34.299 --> 00:33:38.828
but for me that's kind of the next step we've always been we've always had some
00:33:38.828 --> 00:33:45.812
european and some global members but uh we've always kind of been more uk focused,
00:33:46.353 --> 00:33:50.952
so for me that is the natural next step is to kind of move into into europe
00:33:51.323 --> 00:33:57.188
so we have got some some ideas as well in the pipeline for next year again sort of gearing towards,
00:33:57.728 --> 00:34:00.858
the european side of things but that doesn't mean we're taking away anything
00:34:00.858 --> 00:34:04.838
from what we normally do as i said things like the guidance documents they're
00:34:04.838 --> 00:34:09.812
just they're standard now we don't talk about them we just update them as and when they're needed to,
00:34:10.512 --> 00:34:15.088
we have the the various working parties as well that focus on things like psmf,
00:34:15.632 --> 00:34:21.208
the qppv working party that we have that we still focus on the training that we have in the UK.
00:34:21.728 --> 00:34:25.298
So there's lots of different things that are going on, on both the medical information
00:34:25.298 --> 00:34:26.979
and the pharmacogenes side. So.
00:34:27.867 --> 00:34:32.772
And I mentioned medical information, you know, I have no idea when it comes
00:34:32.772 --> 00:34:33.810
to medical information.
00:34:34.942 --> 00:34:40.112
The Vice President, Sinem Castro, she is from a medical information background.
00:34:40.112 --> 00:34:45.332
So I think that the Executive Committee, we have myself as President,
00:34:45.332 --> 00:34:50.772
Sinem as Vice President, and Stephanie Bettisworth as the Secretary, the Treasurer.
00:34:51.770 --> 00:34:55.822
She is head of UK and MI. So we have, between the three of us,
00:34:55.822 --> 00:35:02.031
we cover both PV and MI, which has not always been the same in the past.
00:35:02.629 --> 00:35:07.802
Sometimes we've been more PV than medical information, but it does change.
00:35:07.802 --> 00:35:10.281
It changes, actually. And it's interesting to see in the committee,
00:35:10.762 --> 00:35:15.002
when you see the numbers of committee members, sometimes, again,
00:35:15.002 --> 00:35:17.892
we have more PV than we do MI, and then it switches.
00:35:17.892 --> 00:35:21.182
And same with our UK conference that we have every year.
00:35:21.182 --> 00:35:27.141
It's interesting to see the numbers of pb versus mi and it does change so there's,
00:35:27.782 --> 00:35:32.252
a whole variety of things that happen in in the committee and that's what keeps
00:35:32.252 --> 00:35:33.556
it interesting and motivating.
00:35:34.627 --> 00:35:40.782
Yeah and this year's annual meeting i'm excited because i'm invited you um yeah
00:35:41.162 --> 00:35:45.629
and i'm planning on doing something very strange and and exciting so
00:35:46.662 --> 00:35:51.640
i'll hold that one out for it for it for another the time but i'm i'm very excited i'm
00:35:52.842 --> 00:35:56.952
i've always enjoyed like going to piper when i've had the opportunities
00:35:57.642 --> 00:36:02.832
obviously because of how my role has and where i've been i've not obviously
00:36:02.832 --> 00:36:04.446
been involved too much in piper
00:36:05.056 --> 00:36:10.732
for for many years but it was it was good to sort of come back i think we sponsored
00:36:10.732 --> 00:36:13.392
an event i don't know if it was last year or the year before i think it was
00:36:13.392 --> 00:36:18.009
a year before we sponsored an event and it was nice to come back and it reminded me,
00:36:18.969 --> 00:36:25.726
I should probably actually put a membership in, but I will get round to that.
00:36:26.857 --> 00:36:31.689
Because I genuinely like what PIPER stands for. I always have.
00:36:33.439 --> 00:36:42.375
And I think PIPER looking beyond the UK, I think is very similar to how the MHRA are looking.
00:36:43.728 --> 00:36:48.083
And so you have that sort of connection where, you know, the MHRA just did a
00:36:48.083 --> 00:36:54.463
very successful FDA and Health Canada conference, joint conference,
00:36:54.463 --> 00:36:55.893
which went down very well.
00:36:56.419 --> 00:36:59.353
So you can see that there are there
00:36:59.353 --> 00:37:04.424
are similarities there and and and the organization and what it stands for
00:37:05.065 --> 00:37:11.333
all pv i would say specifically obviously no experience in mi either but yeah
00:37:11.333 --> 00:37:13.993
i think i think it's i think it's great but
00:37:14.681 --> 00:37:16.383
when you come to
00:37:17.163 --> 00:37:22.053
europe i'm making it sound like an invasion i don't mean to but when you when you do come to europe
00:37:22.976 --> 00:37:30.453
what what message do you want people to know about what PIPER stands for and why people should join?
00:37:31.210 --> 00:37:36.883
So the message I want to get across to anyone in Europe, and to be honest,
00:37:36.883 --> 00:37:42.163
even beyond, we're there to support, provide opportunities, whether that be
00:37:42.163 --> 00:37:44.743
training opportunities or guidance,
00:37:45.303 --> 00:37:48.817
on certain legislation, networking opportunities.
00:37:49.154 --> 00:37:53.173
Again, we currently have a UK conference but that that could always change depending
00:37:53.173 --> 00:37:56.853
on not not to get rid of it sorry just to be clear we'll always have the uk
00:37:56.853 --> 00:38:02.001
conference but whether or not we could branch out into something for you know european specific,
00:38:02.811 --> 00:38:08.030
we we want to be there from when you start your career all the way through your career,
00:38:09.343 --> 00:38:13.317
when you need something we're there to help we we we just.
00:38:15.053 --> 00:38:20.611
The amount of people that we have, because if you're part of a global pharmaceutical
00:38:20.611 --> 00:38:27.561
company, you generally, dare I say, have a bit of an ego. We know what we're doing.
00:38:28.381 --> 00:38:30.601
We don't need any kind of association telling us what to do.
00:38:30.801 --> 00:38:34.491
And then you have the smaller companies where actually they really value what
00:38:34.491 --> 00:38:38.721
we do because we're there to be able to support them with,
00:38:39.861 --> 00:38:43.491
almost like the assessment of the legislation, knowing what the legislation
00:38:43.491 --> 00:38:49.081
means how to interpret the legislation how to train your staff we offer various
00:38:49.081 --> 00:38:54.633
different types of training opportunities or bespoke training packages to anyone who wants you know,
00:38:55.618 --> 00:39:00.401
wants the the team to be trained whether that be on adverse event reporting
00:39:00.401 --> 00:39:02.701
whether that be on the requirements for qppv.
00:39:03.861 --> 00:39:07.901
It it we're just there we're always there in the background we're happy to partner
00:39:07.901 --> 00:39:12.882
with anyone or or to work with anyone whether that be other trade associations out in europe,
00:39:13.768 --> 00:39:18.361
but and we we work off people's suggestions as well so any feedback that people
00:39:18.361 --> 00:39:21.301
have they can come to us and say do you know what this would be a really good
00:39:21.301 --> 00:39:24.841
idea if you could do something on this and we will actively look at that we
00:39:24.841 --> 00:39:26.434
will discuss it in a committee meeting,
00:39:27.060 --> 00:39:30.677
and we would decide whether actually yeah great let's let's go ahead to see what we can do and quite,
00:39:31.774 --> 00:39:35.891
what what usually happens is that if someone does provide that feedback we will
00:39:35.891 --> 00:39:39.151
actually bring them in if they want to be a part of it we will happily bring
00:39:39.151 --> 00:39:41.835
them in and let them be a part of what that actually looks like.
00:39:42.601 --> 00:39:46.241
We like to work with the membership as well. We like to give opportunities.
00:39:46.241 --> 00:39:50.611
We have people in the membership who write articles for the magazine or provide
00:39:50.611 --> 00:39:55.021
webinars or just get involved in lots of different things. So the message I
00:39:55.021 --> 00:39:56.535
want to get across is that we're here.
00:39:57.069 --> 00:40:03.351
We're here to help. Whenever you need us, just come and ask us for something.
00:40:03.351 --> 00:40:06.064
We've got forums you can discuss things in with other people.
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:08.857
But we want to be there throughout your entire career.
00:40:10.399 --> 00:40:16.260
I think that was a very impassioned speech there, Chris. So as we,
00:40:17.178 --> 00:40:21.938
I just want to go back to a couple of things that you had said previously.
00:40:22.992 --> 00:40:30.147
One, do you think looking back on it, doing your life sciences degree,
00:40:30.557 --> 00:40:34.795
did you think it actually mattered in the end?
00:40:35.587 --> 00:40:38.878
I guess, I guess for the trajectory of your career, it did.
00:40:39.476 --> 00:40:46.327
But you were talking about box ticking and so i i i ask now as a you know someone
00:40:46.327 --> 00:40:52.030
in some seniority who's able to hire people does it really matter
00:40:54.781 --> 00:40:58.786
I think it does. It all depends on the type of job you're doing for a start.
00:40:58.786 --> 00:41:01.646
I mean, I don't want to sit here and say no one needs to do a degree.
00:41:01.646 --> 00:41:04.127
That's completely the opposite of what I mean.
00:41:06.330 --> 00:41:11.125
I did a degree in life sciences. It's a very broad, touches upon all the different types of sciences.
00:41:11.832 --> 00:41:16.736
And I did it specifically to tick the box to progress because that's what I
00:41:16.736 --> 00:41:19.309
felt was needed at my age at that time.
00:41:20.078 --> 00:41:23.436
There's certainly different things that i think i've learned through doing that
00:41:23.436 --> 00:41:25.233
that degree that have helped me in my,
00:41:26.106 --> 00:41:30.436
in my career and in the job that i do because i also think it's the same for
00:41:30.436 --> 00:41:33.756
the marketing degree certainly now working with piper i think it's the same
00:41:33.756 --> 00:41:38.669
it gives me that kind of and working with the novato it gives you that kind of commercial,
00:41:39.579 --> 00:41:44.483
view or perspective on things because you know being part of uh,
00:41:45.005 --> 00:41:48.046
in many companies you can be part of medical we're not you know medical are
00:41:48.046 --> 00:41:52.406
not commercial they're not supposed to be commercial but really everyone's commercially
00:41:52.406 --> 00:41:55.880
minded to a certain extent because you're a company trying to make money to.
00:41:57.206 --> 00:42:00.810
Make new drugs and and help patients so,
00:42:01.413 --> 00:42:05.356
ultimately you kind of always it's always useful to have that that commercial
00:42:05.356 --> 00:42:07.136
perspective but from a yeah from
00:42:07.136 --> 00:42:10.214
the science degree I definitely learned something but I think it's not,
00:42:10.788 --> 00:42:14.276
within pharmacovigilance it very much depends on the job that you do if you're
00:42:14.276 --> 00:42:19.616
sitting there doing data entry and let's face it more more data entry activities
00:42:19.616 --> 00:42:22.468
are being outsourced nowadays so in terms of the future,
00:42:22.950 --> 00:42:24.706
within the uk for instance i
00:42:24.706 --> 00:42:29.587
can't i don't see case processing as being a job that's going to be there,
00:42:30.786 --> 00:42:36.046
a huge amount of or sorry a huge amount of job opportunities for case processes
00:42:36.046 --> 00:42:40.466
in the future because i think it's all going to different other countries but,
00:42:41.385 --> 00:42:45.437
I think that yes it ultimately will help you,
00:42:46.422 --> 00:42:50.027
But again, it's if I go back to school and we learn certain things at school,
00:42:50.282 --> 00:42:52.735
we didn't learn about taxes at school. We didn't learn about.
00:42:55.115 --> 00:42:58.245
Working out your different currencies when you were abroad or little things
00:42:58.245 --> 00:43:02.166
like that. We learned about things where it didn't didn't really feel like it matters now.
00:43:02.659 --> 00:43:05.825
So I think, again, it's the same with a university degree. It all depends on
00:43:05.825 --> 00:43:07.181
what you're actually going to use it for.
00:43:07.516 --> 00:43:11.545
For me, it ultimately was the box ticking exercise because it meant that it
00:43:11.545 --> 00:43:13.095
opened up a whole new world to me.
00:43:14.080 --> 00:43:19.825
And i i feel like i've made the most of that but and ultimately it's the experience
00:43:19.825 --> 00:43:24.895
i've had at each company that's given me the the expertise and the knowledge that i have now,
00:43:26.443 --> 00:43:30.575
but i think that's the same for every single i would argue it's the same for
00:43:30.575 --> 00:43:34.825
every single degree maybe not a medical um if you're becoming a doctor you need
00:43:34.825 --> 00:43:37.395
to learn what you need to do before but again when you're on the job,
00:43:37.947 --> 00:43:42.565
i imagine it's it's a whole different kettle of fish you you you you learn so much more on the job.
00:43:42.565 --> 00:43:47.685
So like any degree, it gives you that background knowledge to then progress
00:43:47.685 --> 00:43:52.321
from. But I think for me, it served a specific purpose.
00:43:54.172 --> 00:43:59.944
One question before we go to our last question, which is, do you think there's
00:43:59.944 --> 00:44:04.684
a difference between, so you were talking about, you know, the previous generation,
00:44:04.684 --> 00:44:06.344
how they used to just stick to one job,
00:44:07.432 --> 00:44:14.181
the sort of millennial generation who kind of kept moving jobs every couple of years.
00:44:14.912 --> 00:44:19.869
The next generation down, I've seen two different flavors.
00:44:20.764 --> 00:44:29.083
One is the ability to disassociate with work much better than certainly I did,
00:44:29.327 --> 00:44:32.013
and I think others around my age did.
00:44:33.243 --> 00:44:41.356
And secondly, their expectation, which is actually the company should be expected
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:43.754
to keep me for the whole of my career.
00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:47.074
Those are the two things that I've noticed. I don't know if that's necessarily
00:44:47.074 --> 00:44:49.634
true, but those are kind of the things that I've noticed.
00:44:50.367 --> 00:44:55.104
Yeah, I think I'd agree with that. i i think there are there are certain expectations
00:44:55.104 --> 00:45:00.542
on companies now probably more so than than my generation i think my generation,
00:45:01.245 --> 00:45:07.046
my generation and i always argue this because technically i'm a millennial i was born in 1986,
00:45:08.164 --> 00:45:11.894
i argue i'm an exennial which is kind of that bit in between where we grew up
00:45:11.894 --> 00:45:15.464
not you know we grew up before internet really kicked off we grew up before
00:45:15.464 --> 00:45:20.224
phones that just just phones were starting to become a bit more popular so we
00:45:20.224 --> 00:45:21.694
kind of know what it was like before.
00:45:21.694 --> 00:45:24.739
And I think my generation is quite accepting of change.
00:45:26.691 --> 00:45:31.475
And so when I see this new generation and the expectations they have in a company,
00:45:31.922 --> 00:45:34.501
it's funny because I think it's very easy to sit there and say,
00:45:34.501 --> 00:45:36.541
oh, they want more for nothing.
00:45:36.541 --> 00:45:40.081
And it's exactly the same as the generation said before us said about us.
00:45:40.081 --> 00:45:45.321
So maybe I'm just getting old. And it's very funny, very interesting.
00:45:45.321 --> 00:45:50.021
It's very similar. But I do think there is a certain expectations that companies
00:45:50.021 --> 00:45:53.080
will really look after the employee.
00:45:54.417 --> 00:45:59.841
And yeah that's it's very i think it is different it's very different to my generation,
00:46:00.643 --> 00:46:05.601
and it's almost like they get to a point where the company feel the company
00:46:05.601 --> 00:46:07.235
isn't giving them what they want anymore,
00:46:07.752 --> 00:46:12.091
so they will they will leave they will find something else and that that to
00:46:12.091 --> 00:46:16.060
me is the same as margin you know as i said earlier earlier in the podcast that,
00:46:17.211 --> 00:46:21.311
i when i wasn't challenged i left if the company couldn't challenge me anymore
00:46:21.651 --> 00:46:27.601
i left but I think in that respect I think it's the same but yeah I think there's
00:46:27.601 --> 00:46:30.292
certain expectations about being looked after and,
00:46:31.247 --> 00:46:39.080
And believing that something is right versus actually, I guess an example would be working from home.
00:46:40.415 --> 00:46:44.275
I remember before COVID what it was like working in the office five days.
00:46:44.275 --> 00:46:46.845
Could I go back to work in the office five days? Absolutely not.
00:46:47.755 --> 00:46:51.907
My life now is different. We've got so used to not working in the office that,
00:46:52.551 --> 00:46:53.805
I think it'd be very difficult.
00:46:53.805 --> 00:46:58.565
But I remember, I think I had a problem with my car and the tire burst or something like that.
00:46:58.565 --> 00:47:01.705
And i had to take it into the garage and i said oh can i just work from home
00:47:01.705 --> 00:47:05.595
for two days well i've got no car because i'm a 45 minute drive away from the
00:47:05.595 --> 00:47:10.965
office and the answer was no you have to get a courtesy car you know that that
00:47:10.965 --> 00:47:12.415
but that was quite normal back then,
00:47:13.059 --> 00:47:16.225
now if you get someone who just doesn't want to come to the office at all and
00:47:16.225 --> 00:47:20.245
yet the expectation is three days a week trying to actually get them in three
00:47:20.245 --> 00:47:22.592
days a week is is really difficult,
00:47:23.423 --> 00:47:25.855
but i'm not i'm not so sure that's a generational thing i think maybe that's
00:47:25.855 --> 00:47:29.175
just everyone since covid who now doesn't work in the office as much as they
00:47:29.175 --> 00:47:30.743
used to probably feels the same,
00:47:31.232 --> 00:47:35.528
there are people who want to go to the office more because uh again it's a social
00:47:35.673 --> 00:47:41.519
thing but not just a social thing it's also getting out the house if you live in a flat on your own.
00:47:42.715 --> 00:47:47.243
You know you want to you might want to be in the office if uh someone like myself who has,
00:47:48.215 --> 00:47:51.775
family commitments it's much easier to be at home because you can get so much
00:47:51.775 --> 00:47:56.113
more done i i'm i very much am into productivity and efficiency,
00:47:56.594 --> 00:48:01.005
even in my home life I want to be as efficient as I can so working from home
00:48:01.005 --> 00:48:03.686
really gives me the ability to do everything I need to do,
00:48:04.499 --> 00:48:08.705
within a much smaller amount of time so I imagine going back to the office now
00:48:08.705 --> 00:48:10.815
you know how would anything get done at home.
00:48:12.510 --> 00:48:17.595
It wouldn't so yeah I definitely think there is this this difference but I think
00:48:17.595 --> 00:48:19.756
there's a difference every every generation,
00:48:20.958 --> 00:48:25.255
and of course the jobs are going to change as well right in the future so i,
00:48:25.755 --> 00:48:28.305
i look at my kids and think what jobs are you going to be doing when you're
00:48:28.305 --> 00:48:33.490
when you're older i don't think we even know what those jobs are at the moment if they even exist.
00:48:34.549 --> 00:48:38.416
No i i think you're bang on and i think i i i
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:45.202
you know i'm i'm i'm a social person and i've
00:48:45.955 --> 00:48:50.415
in my first stint of consulting i was very young as a consultant and this was
00:48:50.415 --> 00:48:57.868
before covid and i was working for home from home for three days about three days three years
00:48:58.753 --> 00:49:05.201
and i think it was awful because it was like the prime of my social being
00:49:06.061 --> 00:49:10.575
and then i i moved into a job that had a job in that had an office in central
00:49:10.575 --> 00:49:15.140
london i loved it i loved the social aspect i suddenly realized what i'd been missing for three years
00:49:15.831 --> 00:49:21.169
and we've gone through covid and you know work through home i miss going to an office
00:49:21.775 --> 00:49:26.615
i do go to the office every now and again but i find it because there's no need
00:49:26.615 --> 00:49:31.774
to go to the office necessarily i find it more difficult to go to the office
00:49:32.383 --> 00:49:36.531
and it's and it is but once i'm in the office absolutely fine love it
00:49:37.367 --> 00:49:42.027
i'm i'm quite happy i get people to chat to like different things
00:49:42.875 --> 00:49:45.388
not just the stuff that's going on daily.
00:49:45.948 --> 00:49:49.091
That's fascinating. And Chris, finally, I need to ask,
00:49:50.562 --> 00:49:53.416
What do you think is next for life sciences in general? I mean,
00:49:53.416 --> 00:49:57.816
you know, we're at a weird stage, you know. We've talked a lot about younger
00:49:57.816 --> 00:50:04.749
generation. We've talked a lot about the associations that are out there as well, including Piper.
00:50:05.179 --> 00:50:08.226
And, you know, when you reflect back in your career and, you know,
00:50:08.975 --> 00:50:11.164
you were just talking about your children as well.
00:50:11.553 --> 00:50:16.121
What is next for life sciences in your opinion?
00:50:16.638 --> 00:50:21.326
Yeah, I think at a high level, you know, there's been a lot of talk these days
00:50:21.326 --> 00:50:25.584
of personalised medicine, moving to things like CAR T treatments and things like that.
00:50:26.094 --> 00:50:33.793
And I suspect the next level is more moving from personalised medicine to predictive medicine.
00:50:34.518 --> 00:50:40.396
You know, understanding what might happen to someone given that they have certain,
00:50:41.256 --> 00:50:44.413
things, certain results, lab results, certain.
00:50:46.692 --> 00:50:50.852
Prerequisites I guess to having certain diseases so to being able to understand
00:50:50.852 --> 00:50:51.957
what might happen to someone,
00:50:52.953 --> 00:50:56.076
before it even happens I think is where we're going to go,
00:50:56.689 --> 00:51:02.178
almost like the minority report of medicine if you will if I'm able to use a film,
00:51:02.738 --> 00:51:06.242
imagine imagine being in that that instance where we can actually prevent something
00:51:06.242 --> 00:51:11.136
before it even happens and of course with AI that that's going to help because
00:51:11.573 --> 00:51:15.985
you're able to analyze data and pick out things that maybe doctors wouldn't.
00:51:17.092 --> 00:51:20.632
I always remember a good colleague of mine, Dave Lewis,
00:51:21.552 --> 00:51:26.402
who I remember giving a presentation around a load of, I think it was pigeons,
00:51:26.402 --> 00:51:33.174
that were able to pick out markers of cancer markers from images just as well as doctors were.
00:51:33.301 --> 00:51:36.522
And that kind of, if you can get pigeons to do that, what can you do with AI?
00:51:36.522 --> 00:51:40.492
I mean, AI is going to be, you're going to be in a position where you can just
00:51:40.492 --> 00:51:44.192
pick out certain things that you would never even see before anything even gets
00:51:44.192 --> 00:51:49.002
to the point where you consider it a disease and be able to tackle it beforehand.
00:51:49.002 --> 00:51:54.132
I mean, I'm not a medical expert in any way, shape or form, but that's where
00:51:54.132 --> 00:51:55.652
I can see us going in the future.
00:51:55.652 --> 00:51:59.561
That would be amazing if that was the case to be able to prevent something before it even happened,
00:52:00.302 --> 00:52:06.633
rather than at the moment you know we can personalize the medicine and target certain certain things,
00:52:07.321 --> 00:52:10.632
and that's great but i think we if we can get to a point where we can even treat
00:52:10.632 --> 00:52:16.772
it before before it happens how amazing would that be taking it back to pharmacovigilance.
00:52:18.383 --> 00:52:23.431
I think we'll continue with automation and AI hand in hand.
00:52:23.901 --> 00:52:29.329
We have a lot of automation at the moment already in PV, but I think it will
00:52:29.329 --> 00:52:35.364
get to a point where you will be able to screen, say screen adverse events in real world data,
00:52:36.176 --> 00:52:41.563
process those events, submit those events, do signal detection on those events,
00:52:42.370 --> 00:52:44.895
all automatically, all using AI.
00:52:45.787 --> 00:52:49.119
And that will just happen in the background. and you'll have your SMPC,
00:52:49.439 --> 00:52:53.779
your patient information leaflets, everything will be as accurate as they can
00:52:53.779 --> 00:52:58.929
be without the need for any kind of, and I was going to try and refrain from
00:52:58.929 --> 00:53:00.239
saying this, human in the loop.
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.719
I've heard it so many times, I tried to refrain from using it,
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:08.809
but I think we can end up in a point where everything is just automated,
00:53:08.809 --> 00:53:14.306
signal detections, using AI to pick up on things that we would never have picked up on before,
00:53:15.395 --> 00:53:20.131
and without the need of any kind of human interaction, as scary as that sounds.
00:53:21.215 --> 00:53:25.419
I think that's fair. Chris, it's been a fascinating conversation.
00:53:25.419 --> 00:53:27.236
Thank you so much for joining me today.
00:53:28.004 --> 00:53:29.282
Thanks, Cindy. Pleasure to be here.