Trotsky versus Jesus: Battle of the AI Millennium - James Tunney

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I believe that Trotsky is the greatest world revolutionary probably
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conceived in terms of global politics, and his policies suit
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the disestablishment of existing religions, so that we get a
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situation where both business, if we want to say, on
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the rights, but although bearn in mind the Chinese operate business,
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but not really for you know, we can't really say
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it's right wing in that sense, but it's traditionally seem
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to be the epitome of capitalism. But so we could
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say corporatism is another description which covers both corporatism, whether
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you describe it as left or right. Both are anti homeostatic.
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That means they are homeostatic. That means they want to
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destroy the existing society that's there, and they're inherently there.
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For revolutionary in sociological terms, So what a revolutionary is?
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I thought I knew what a revolutionary was, and it's
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you can see I fell in a cap and rebellion against.
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But there's a difference between a rebel and a revolutionary.
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I mean, that's the revolutionist that we're talking about. And
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this ties into the discussion we're having about Dostoyevsky was
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a very particular person, a very particular person and their
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driving force was against all morality, against the rules, a
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total rejection of objective morality. So as you move from say, well, okay,
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we get rid of the Catholic Church because we're all progressive,
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you're moving into a very dangerous space which is very,
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very suitable for our imminent slavery. And I have argued
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that the Catholic Church we look at historically from a
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legal perspective, was not what we're told it was in
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this overall structure, but rather it was positioned between empire
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kings and the people to protect the people often hence
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the Magna Charta, and people don't understand that they've lost
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this idea. So the result of shifting to this antiom
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mediostatic force, black Rock Bolshevism, as I go, will be
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that we will be enslaved and technocracy follows. Hence I
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am now openly saying that the theological anthropology associate with
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Catholicism is one of the only systems in its historical
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origin that anticipates this anticipates the challenge of transhumanism and
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posthumanism that both left and right bring to So that's
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a long answer to the thing. And also other figures
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that was interested in Churchill. Churchill regarded Trotsky as one
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of his greatest enemies, so that made me interesting, Well,
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what the church will see in this guy? That was
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so significant.
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Welcome back to Interviews from Under Round, and I'm here
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again with James Tunny. James Tunney is a returning guest
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to the Channel, and I always get a lot from
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listening to James. He is very insightful and already his
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new book, Trotsky Versus Jesus Matt Battle of the AI Millennium,
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fantastic book. It's a book that you can't just skim over.
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It's it's a book. As I was saying to James
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before the show, I heard an interview once with Jordan Peterson,
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and Jordan Peterson was talking about Nietzsche how you have
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to read every paragraph a couple of times at least
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to just grasp what Nietsche is saying. I find that
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sometimes with James's books you have to like reread the paragraphs.
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They're so dense and they're so erudite, and they're just
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so full of information. But anyways, James, welcome back, happy
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to see you again.
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Thanks very much, Michael.
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I'll take that as a compliment, and I'm very grateful
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for you having read the book and appreciate your your support.
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So thank you, and as a pleasure to be back
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on your show again.
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Oh yeah, absolutely, no problem, No problem. Well, well let
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me start. Why did you decide to write this book
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about Trotsky and Jesus? Why did you watch the juxtaposition there?
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What's the what do you see as the contrary factors
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in relation to these two figures.
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There was a kind of personal dimension to it in
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the in so far as from the time when I
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was young in Ireland, I remember people talking about Trotsky
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and he was a kind of a mystical figure on
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the side, and he came up. He was very hip,
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he was very appreciated on the left, and he came
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up in strange contexts. And I went to London, I
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met a lot of Trotskitts. In the fact I was
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sharing space with them, so I came out I didn't know,
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I didn't have any discussions with them, etcetera politically, but
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they were there during the poll tax context in the
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fall attached that Trotskyists drove a lot of the forces
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that led to her downfall. So they kept on coming
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up during the Iraq War.
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We found that a.
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Lot of the drivers in America and in Britain had
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been trotskiss once and he said, well, how does this,
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how does how do you go from the right to
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the left, and how does it? And then when you're
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reading the life of people like George orwell and that
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if you find he's involved in trotsky fighting with Trotskys
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in Spain, and the Trotskyists are fighting the Stalinists in Spain,
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so you're not talking about communist You're talking about two
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different groups and deadly enemies. At one stage, so he
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kept on coming up again and again. So he was
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on he was on the back burner, and then it
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became mainstream. A lot of the mainstream parties you see
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in countries across Europe described himself as formerly Trotskyist. The
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Trotskyist parties in origin and nobody, nobody is paying attention
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to it. And at the same time, when I began
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to so I was going to do something about the
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influence of trotsky And as I was looking at the sources,
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I became more and more conscious of how central story
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the opposition to Jesus Christ was in particular to religion,
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but more especially to Christianity, and it's a driving force,
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and it's right there at the start of his life
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and right there at the end of his life. And
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you can see in people who love Trotsky who Trotsky
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was the hero, like Christopher Hitchins, for example. He's renowned
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for being an atheist, but people presume that etheism is
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neutral in some sense, that it's just against something, But
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really the atheism was part of a deeper worldview. Once
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you abolish the idea of God and Christ, then something
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else comes into place. So as I started off me
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kind of this phase of my journey when I started
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talking about mysticism about ten years ago, when I said, okay,
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I think I have something to say in this area,
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and I started off, and there was two elements. I said,
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there's been a failure of spiritual evolution and the great
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threat to spiritual evolution is technology. So that was where
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I was going. And then as again on the backboard,
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and when I'm going through all these issues, I see
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that a lot of people involved in the area have espells,
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spells views which are consistent with say Trotskyism, and that's
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part of the picture. So that both from the left
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and the right we end up with technocracy. Essentially, it
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doesn't matter if it's left or right, they can move between.
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The end result of both is technocracy. And as I
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was going through the spiritual traditions again on the fundamental
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assumption basically really that everyone has their spiritual consciouness and
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they have to develop that, I began to come back
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to and look again at the Catholic Church, which I
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had lost. Interesting although it brought up Catholic and scrutinize
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that in a more intellectual way, as I was looking
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at everything and to come back to it, and in
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that context it becomes very very clear they dovetail in
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that Trotsky's agenda and the agenda that I argue of
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revolution is the destruction of religion, but in particular the
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Catholic Church, and you can add in the Orthodox Church,
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so we could say the Apostolic churches, the church that
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claim a direct lineage back to Christ. They're the churches
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that had to be overthrown. Very very clear in Bolshevik
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Russia and clear in the West, although it doesn't seem
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to be clear to people. So as you know, in Ireland,
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in the transition from a formerly Catholic country to a
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more secular country or in Sweden, which is often characterized
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as most secularized country in the world. There's not a
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there's not a neutral zone that happens as a result
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of that. There is a particular worldview that can operate,
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and there's a trajectory that follows on. So there are
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political consequences of the decisions that we make. So whether
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you decide, for example, to follow particular religion has particular
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sociological consequence and civilizational consequences. So in so far as
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there is a revolutionary movement, I believe that Trotsky is
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the greatest world revolutionary probably conceived in terms of global politics.
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And his policies suit the disestablishment of existing religions, so
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that we get a situation where both business, if we
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want to say, on the rights. But although bearn in
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mind that Chinese operate business, but not really for you know,
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we can't really say it's right wing and in that sense,
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but it's traditionally seen to be the to me of capitalism.
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But so we could say corporatism is another description which
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covers both corporatism, whether you describe it as left or right,
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both are anti homeostatic. That means they are homeostatic. That
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means they want to destroy the existing society that's there,
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and they're inherently there for revolutionary in sociological terms. So
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what a revolutionary is? I thought I knew what a
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revolutionary was, and it's you can see I fell in
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a capital rebellion against But there's a difference between a
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rebel and a revolutionary. I mean that that's the revolutionist
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that we're talking about. And this ties into the discussion
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having about Dostoyevsky was a very particular person, a very
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particular person, and their driving force was against all morality,
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against the rules, a total rejection of objective morality. So
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as you move from say, well, okay, we get rid
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of the Catholic Church because we're all progressive, you're moving
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into a very dangerous space which is very very suitable
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for our imminent slavery. And I have argued that the
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Catholic Church we look at historically from a legal perspective,
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was not what we're told it was in this overall structure,
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but rather it was positioned between empire kings and the
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people to protect the people often hence the magna carta.
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And people don't understand that they've lost this idea. So
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the result of shifting to this antiomiostatic force black Rock
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Bolshevism as a gool, will be that we will be
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enslaved and technocracy follows. Hence I am now openly saying
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that the theological anthropology associate with Catholicism is one of
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the only systems in its historical origin that anticipates this
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anticipates the challenge of transhumanism and posthumanism that both left
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and right bring to. So that's a long answer to
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the thing. And also other figures that was interested in Churchill.
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Churchill regarded Trotsky as one of his greatest enemies, so
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that made me interesting, Well, what the church will see
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in this guy? That was so significant.
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Let me ask you, going back to what you just
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said earlier on what is the difference between a revolutionary
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and a rebel? Can you can you elaborate more on that?
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I'm not sure I forgot that.
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Yeah, if we can compare two a rebellion and a
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revolution in nineteen sixteen and nineteen seventy, so Ireland we
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had nineteen sixteen, so the seven signatures of the proclamation
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all took the last rights, and they were all even
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if Connolly wasn't clear about his connection with the church.
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They were all committed in some sense, and particularly the
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leaders like peers to their religious faith. So I know
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from my own family, and an Irish priest recently said
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this in context to Father kill Coin, who're talking about
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the rebels who rejected the treaty fighting up in the
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hills down that you know, down around Killery. They were
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excommunicated at that stage, and he said the leader of
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the rebel down there would fast the night before because
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he hoped he would. He would, the excommunication would be
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lifted and they can go to church now. So this
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is this is totally different from a revolutionary as evolved
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in the Russian context from the mid nineteenth century. So
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these revolutionaries where they were often coming from Switzerland, as
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you know from Thesievsky context, and Switzerland was critical as
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the center of Protestant Roman Protestantism has a big.
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Role in this.
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So they were they were hostile to any objective morality.
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They were nihilistic. And Dusty F's key that's who he's
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criticizing in the book about the possessed or the demons,
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that's who he's identifying. He's identifying a new archetypal force.
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And this was we had the Revolutionary Catechism, for example,
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and basically in the mid nineteenth century in Russia, and
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it says that basically the revolutionary is against everybody. There's
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no moral standards. You can do what you want for
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the revolution. And so this is utterly different, and in
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particular it's utterly different than that it doesn't accept religion,
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unlike say, how the rebels in Ireland would. So what
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I say is that revolution in its proper sense has
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a pedigree, and the pedigree eye trace starts in particular
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with the Protestant Reformation. So therefore it's very directed against
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the modern times, directed against the tw ur It continues
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in the American Revolution and then the French Revolution and
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then the Russian Revolution. And what we have there is
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a progression from the Catholic Church having an influence on
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the legal system to the Reformation. When you say, well, well,
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the Catholic Church and now it's reduced as the protest
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is the kings, the kings of control, so they're in
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charge of the church. To the American revolutions say well
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we're going to be free of the church. To the
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French revolutions, they we're going to abolish these these guys,
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you know what, We're going to reduce their power, significant
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to the Russian Revolution where we say we're going to
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have the League of the godless and eradicated Church and
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take all their treasure and loot them as they did,
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as Trotsky did. So what I'm saying is that this
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was an inherent movement away from God, which if we
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put it backwards through history, we can see it going
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right back to the second Sound where King David is
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saying that the kings of the Earth are rebellion against God.
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So what we're saying, whether you believe in God or not,
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what we're talking about, or the church or whatever, what
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we're talking about, as it says that society is governed
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by the biggest thing that's out there, or it's governed
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by the guy that's down the road meeting with his
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buddies in some club that exerts power over you. So
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that's a horizontal idea with no God. And this idea
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that law is related to God. We find this in Babylon,
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gone back to the first legal code of ham your Abbi,
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where we have a picture of ham your Abbi receiving
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the law from Shamash, the sun God. So this is
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a fundamental principle. The fundamental principle is that if the
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society itself has to be aligned to the greatest thing
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it knows, and if it's not, we'll be governed then
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just by men or kings or tyrants. So I call
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that a singular revolution which had particular manifestations in modern
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times because Europe was the center of that revolution. That
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revolution was against the idea of God having a role
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in the governance of society. Now people forget, they think
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that America is a Protestant society, but it was clear
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that they were deists who wanted to remove the Church
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from governance. That that's clear in the in the legal
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in the constitutional settle. And Thomas Paine, the leader in Many,
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was totally against God and ideas of God. So that
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was in the DNA. And Jefferson, of course not only
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as involved in American Revolution, he's in parents at the
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time of the French Revolution.
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They were.
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There's a direct line, oddly that people think from America
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to this revolutionary force, and in many senses, the American
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administration has been revolutionary since then. So revolutionary in the
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sense of destabilizing what's there and in particular uprooting social
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social systems. So there's no way that the Irish can
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be put into that category because they went in rejecting God.
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In fact, they were in their head they were fighting
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for good and that that was why the Irish Constitution
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of nineteen thirty seven was dedicated. When they come to
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the Constitution thirty seven, my grandfather dropped air dropped leaflets
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from an airplane over Dublin to get people to vote
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for it. They were saying, we're not fascist and we're
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not communists. These were the choices in thirty seven. We're
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going to dedicate to stay to the Holy Trinity at
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that time, that the Catholic Church, because we're not that,
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we're avoiding that and this is what historically we were
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fighting for. So so I would distinguish them Trotsky and
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they didn't that. A lot of them slagged off the
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Irish Rebellion. They didn't think because they want a total
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revolution in society, an absolute overhaul of the whole thing.
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So they don't want any reform. They don't want it
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to be better for workers. And to give you an example, again,
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my grandfather was involved in politics the same, the same
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name as me, and he was he would have been
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supporting farmers, agricultural laborers, urban working class, and so he
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was very much involved in the housing thing in Dublin.
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But the Communists said this is wrong, providing houses for
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people that they owned themselves, because they're against private property
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and they're against the working people own under things, you
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know what I mean. So you have to look at
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the pragmatic consequences. So the revolutionary says, we're against anything.
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We're against all the private property, against the family or
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against we're against the totality of it, and we want
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something else, in particular the state. But the state becomes
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the elite. As Michael Bakunen again who wrote in Switzerland
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do the Great because predicted it would happen. He predicted
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what would happen in relation to Marxism, that we would
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get this elite. And that's what they're talking about. They're
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not talking about the proletaria is not in charge. It's
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this elite. Hence Stalinism. It wouldn't have been any different.
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So I hope that does that address the questions.
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Of absolutely James. Yeah, I'm just thinking there when you're
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speaking as well, you heard this an awful lot. Well,
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Jesus was a revolutionary. He was, He was a great
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revolutionary figure. How true is that? Do you see him
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as a revolutionary figure or do you see him as
323
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a rebel or do you see him as something beyond that?
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Beyond he's not.
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He's not a rebel in that sense. You might like,
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you might say closer to the revolutionary, but it's clear
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he's clearly not. He's been appropriated by people who don't
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want to accept the spiritual dimension. I say it was
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a revolution and the poor an awful lot of that,
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awful lot of books claim that, even from Catholics, which
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I disagree with, and his his statements about rendering to
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Caesar what is Caesars, and his rejection of the world
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as given to when the devil is saying here, I'll
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give you all this. He's rejecting that his kingdom is
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not of this world. So what he's making very very
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clear is about the spiritual kingdom, which is of a
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different dimension. Now that doesn't mean that a Catholic church
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was not interested in all the social issues, because the
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point was that the revelation had to unfold and be
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applied as appropriate to diverse circumstances. But he wasn't there
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to rebel against the He wasn't there to rebel against
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the Romans. He wasn't leading that type of rebellion. And
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there is a book called Camrat Jesus in Sweden which
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makes the case that he was a revolutionary, but he
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was a failed revolution This is a kid's book. A
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failed revolutionary. But he didn't understand that you needed bigger
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weapons than the police, and the police that you know,
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So this is the logic that you get. And they
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at the time in the seventies they said this should
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be read in church. I mean, this is the way
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that the left was had I've taken over the church
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in the sixties.
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It's quite ridiculous.
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But because that happened in the Swedish church was taken
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over quite a bit by Marxist in the nineteen sixties,
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that the state, the state Protestant church. By the way,
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every Protestant country in Europe is essentially no longer Protestant,
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you know. So the countries that adopted, consistent of my view,
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the countries that adopted Protestantism become secular and probably Islamic
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after that. That that's a pattern across Europe, so the Duncans.
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So that also tells me that their commitment and the
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argument that they were fighting for Jesus and just one
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of the better pure Jesus doesn't hold up the scrutiny
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because they immediately or over a period of time, it's
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not persistent, and it disappears and they don't become Christian
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societies and a vacuum is created.
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But you can see that going on in Ireland, and
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Ireland used to be predominantly Catholic. It used to be
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a Catholic country, so you can see that it's already
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it's already happened. So how do you equate that, you know,
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you said that it was.
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Yeah, yeah, Ireland is Ireland is unusual in this case
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because it didn't go to the Reformation. You could argue
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that it's having its Reformation now. Finally, it didn't go
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to the Reformation in the same way or in the
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because it was ongoing wars, It wasn't it wasn't totally successful.
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The West of Ireland, et cetera. Retained its Catholicism, so
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it didn't become a fully Protestant state on the ground
379
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in many senses. But so the models of going from
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Catholicism to non Catholicism are less. You might look at
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the you can could make arguments for France, but even
382
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then it doesn't work. So we're historically unusual in that.
383
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But we will go the same path. We will go
384
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to something secular and probably Islamic. After that, there's there's
385
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a good chance it would be very easy to turn
386
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Ireland into an Islamic state. And and that's that's that.
387
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That's I don't a real possibility. You can't. A society
388
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that rejects God will, you know, will end up looking
389
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for something else. So it's it's it's unusual because it
390
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didn't become Protestant. That's where the unusualness is. But it's
391
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not unusual in relation to when you get the the
392
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the trajectory that it goes that direct and bear in
393
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mind that are the changes in Ireland. We're heavily influenced
394
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by a cultural if you want to call it assault
395
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from the sixties to television from Britain from a Protestant nation,
396
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which which undermined the attachment to Catholicism right through the media,
397
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true whether from comedy throughe literature. It was a constant
398
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attack on the existence or the right to exist of
399
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:21.279
the Catholic nation. So it's the reason why it's an
400
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.240
outliwer is because the Reformation didn't take hold in the
401
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.079
same way and it wasn't as successful as it wasn't
402
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:28.680
in the countries.
403
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.759
Yeah, there's well, there's definitely a lot of animosity towards
404
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.359
Catholicism at the moment. And even the last time I
405
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:39.039
was at home, actually I had a lot of an argument,
406
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.759
but we were kind of like voice in our opinions
407
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.960
about the Church and Catholicism to my to my auntie
408
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and she says, well, what about women's rights. You know,
409
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.440
their their their behavior towards women throughout the years has
410
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.200
been horrible. Has it been that horrible or is that
411
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.400
just an exaggeration or.
412
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Is yeah, what's very interesting to take to take examples.
413
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.599
For example, Ferretor, who I think is readiably well balanced
414
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:13.079
Irish historian, has written about devil Era and he questions
415
00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:16.160
these He goes through the arguments that are traditionally made
416
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:19.799
against the regressive nature of the states, and he's very
417
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:24.400
fair in relation to the assessment. If you look at
418
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:33.799
the international identifiers of women's rights in recent times, Ireland
419
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:39.880
always did well in recent times, even before the changes
420
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:47.039
in the thing in relation to objective measurements of women's rights. Now,
421
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.400
when you change them and you put in issues like
422
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.759
access to abortion and things, you begin to you can't
423
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:58.319
begin to skew it. But on the international figures I
424
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:02.440
have seen is the argument that it was a bad
425
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.960
place for women and that was related to the church
426
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.200
is not as as easy to make out as it is.
427
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:15.640
And then you asked, well, what's your comparators? So you
428
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.559
know what, what are the comparators? We're talking here about
429
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:24.519
a colonial, colonized country in your in Europe, on the
430
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:29.000
fringe of Europe, that has been under imperial control for
431
00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:33.359
hundreds of years, And the proper comparative comparators really are
432
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:37.599
countries outside Europe who have went through that experience. And
433
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:42.440
on those comparators, Ireland did quite well. But what I
434
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.720
would say is that if you say, if you say
435
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:50.880
about well abortion is the key thing of the women's
436
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:53.559
lations all there, that's fine, but you must take the
437
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.799
consequences then of your one must take the consequences of
438
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.200
their decision. I'm very familiar with that argument, my my,
439
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:05.400
you know, I hear a plenty in Ireland, So I
440
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.680
accept that that's their argument. All I would say is
441
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:11.599
now you must take the consequences of making your decision
442
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:19.480
and attaching to the new system that's there. And unfortunately,
443
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:23.880
I don't believe that over a period of time that
444
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:27.960
the rights of women will be enhanced, and it's clear
445
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:33.799
that your Ireland will be subject to a lot more
446
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:38.519
diverse cultures who don't have the traditions that existed in Ireland.
447
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:40.839
When I came to Sweden first, people were telling me
448
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:45.039
about this how backward Irish women were, and I was saying,
449
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.160
but the Irish women that I know are a lot
450
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.759
more assertive than I find in the northern countries, for example,
451
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.759
despite all the indicators you put forward. So I don't
452
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.440
recognize this. And when I go back and my great
453
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:04.279
grandee and grandmother or whatever fighting for independence, they were
454
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.079
very tough women in the country. It's it's it's on
455
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:11.440
it's on record about the things. So this this is
456
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.559
is kind of nonsense. And they they were very dedicated
457
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:20.440
towards the country and to the church. So the narrative
458
00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:26.599
as well has been constantly driven home about this this
459
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:33.559
dystopian past and attributed to one to one factor the
460
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.640
patriarchy on the assumption with the implication that all these
461
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.279
suffering men in the history of Ireland were involved in
462
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:43.640
this repression of of the women, which which is a
463
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.000
nonsense and and I think, really, I think it's a
464
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:52.000
gross to service towards the ancestors, both male and female,
465
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.160
to to oversimplify that history, and I don't accept it's
466
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.559
not it's not clear in Irish literature. There's a propagandistic
467
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:04.759
element to it. But that's my view. Ireland has made
468
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:08.799
a choice, Ireland has committed itself to a particular vision,
469
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:12.519
and there's consequences. Now forget about the morality of or
470
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:18.319
forget about there are sociological consequences. The Barthraad has declined drastically,
471
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:24.119
which means that the argument for mass import or necessity
472
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:27.759
to import people from outside, has led to a revolution,
473
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:32.279
a cultural revolution in the country. And as that continues,
474
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:36.400
the people are making the robots are saying, well, we're
475
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:39.000
making the robots because there's not enough children, for example.
476
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:42.400
So there are consequences what I'm saying now, So I'm
477
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:46.119
not going to argue about I don't argue with people
478
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:49.680
in Ireland about this vision and about the Catholic Church
479
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:52.640
and the idea that the Catholic Church has was the
480
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:58.160
one that was responsible, when the implication seems to be
481
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.160
that the colonial power from eleven sixty nine had nothing
482
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:05.359
got to do with it. It's been an incredible and incredible
483
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:08.720
retelling of the story when the Catholic Church was underground
484
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.640
for most of the time, when the Catholic Church provided
485
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.799
the services, set up the hospitals, most of the big
486
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.200
hospitals and Ireland were set up by the things and
487
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:21.519
set up home and dealt with sociological problems caused by
488
00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:25.920
massive distortion of economic factors within the country. And then
489
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.640
in that you have this myths that are being modern
490
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:31.559
myths being created, very very similar to what I hear
491
00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:36.640
in relation to Canada about this gross system of abuse
492
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:40.039
that went that the nuns, for example, the evidence is
493
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.519
not there. The evidence in the reports that I looked
494
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.960
at and the Irish reports, government reports don't make these
495
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.279
accusations about nuns, this argument about bodies being found and
496
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:55.559
all that kind of stuff. This had happened in Canada
497
00:31:55.599 --> 00:32:00.599
and was refuted. There are books explaining that this stories
498
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.000
that were sold at the same time as in and
499
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:08.960
Australia I haven't been supported. So a few years ago,
500
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.039
for example, in glass Nevian Cemetery, a lot of people
501
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:16.599
in Dublin had infants that were buried in the angels
502
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:19.440
plot there, so all the all the and I had
503
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:22.119
a brother and sister that were that were in there,
504
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:25.519
so they didn't put stones any At the time that
505
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:27.119
that was that was the custom.
506
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:29.920
Irish people were used to death. There was mass death.
507
00:32:29.799 --> 00:32:34.079
Everywhere, so it was it was just across the school
508
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.920
from from where I was. So then they said, well,
509
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.440
we have to put something in front of it with
510
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:41.039
the names and all that. But if you come along
511
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:43.640
and say, oh, look there's a big space here with
512
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:46.200
all the all the babies buried in the thing, isn't
513
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:49.079
a terrible and there's no things, and and if there
514
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.720
has been movements so that the septic tank is put
515
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.279
in there, the septic tank wasn't there at the time,
516
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:59.519
for example in Cheung, then you can concoct the story
517
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:03.599
which suits the narrative, which is anti homeostatic, which contributes
518
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:06.640
towards the removal of the church. And if you look
519
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:11.000
historically at the protection of rights in Europe, you don't
520
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:14.279
have a right system in modern times without the influence
521
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:18.240
of the church. The Magna character wouldn't exist without the
522
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:23.319
influence of the church. So I'm not going to argue
523
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:29.920
with anybody against the perception or the argument that women
524
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:32.880
suffered in Ireland.
525
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:34.839
In the past.
526
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:36.960
And if they want to say that that was all
527
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.039
down to the Catholic Church, you must accept the consequence.
528
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:44.240
I'm a pragmatist. They must accept the consequences. The consequences
529
00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:49.640
of accepting an oversimplified view of history are devastating, especially
530
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.400
if that oversimplified view is being sold by powers who
531
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:55.799
want to extend their powers, as I argue, and lead
532
00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:01.240
to a technology it's been a massive of it will
533
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:08.400
a massive social socio cultural revolution in Iron. And instead
534
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:10.320
of saying me and buying the head off the wall
535
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:12.360
and saying well, actually, if you look at the nuance
536
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:17.960
of history, that's an oversimplification. People must people must accept
537
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:21.960
if they want as as a as a typical in Iaron,
538
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.360
they hear it constantly and but don't be surprised at
539
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:32.519
what's coming. And if they think their position is going
540
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:36.840
to be enhanced, it will only be by stretching the
541
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:42.400
criteria of what a good society is. And again they've
542
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:44.599
made they've made their choices, they've made their bed now
543
00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:44.880
on the.
544
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:50.079
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of you know when
545
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:52.840
I start, I I when I give up alcohol. You
546
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.719
knowized Well, I used to go to a few a
547
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.840
meetings and they used to always give me the advice
548
00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:01.000
don't mix the message up with the messengers. And I was,
549
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:03.320
I think it can be applying the same way to
550
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.000
a certain extent the church, because I had, like for
551
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:10.360
I had father Loninecheron yesterday. He told me, look, the
552
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:12.920
church is one thing and the Christian faith is another thing.
553
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:17.000
He said, Yes, the Church hasn't been perfect, but it's
554
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:20.239
nowhere near as bad as people are making out.
555
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:21.800
That's correct.
556
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:24.639
But the Christian faith is another thing. Is that what
557
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:27.039
you mean when earlier on when you said that people
558
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:32.320
haven't fully grasped, grasped what the Christian faith is that
559
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:35.119
they that they I think you were You were saying
560
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:39.559
that it hasn't fully expressed itself and it's in it's
561
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.519
in its true form. Is that what you mean?
562
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:48.719
There's a very simple point. Okay, imagine to make it
563
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:52.679
very very simple. You're dealing with AI in the future,
564
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.920
and it says, Michael, can you explain to me why
565
00:35:56.199 --> 00:36:01.840
your your existence should continue. Mm hm, you know, and
566
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.039
I imagine you have to argue logically. So if you
567
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:08.679
don't convince it, you won't your existence won't continue. Now
568
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:11.719
this is not an inconceivable proposition. Bear in mind that
569
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:15.840
we have made in Canada euthanasia and AI is becoming
570
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:21.119
involved in government. And if it's been totally logical, and
571
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.440
you have to explain why you're important as a human being,
572
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.760
where do you get that from? Where do you get
573
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:31.119
your description of yourself your dignity as an individual from,
574
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:34.719
without making a specific case about what you've contributed to
575
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.400
the world in a transactional context. The reality that the
576
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:42.280
point is we've made assumptions about the dignity of the individual.
577
00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:45.679
You don't get this in communism. You have the collective
578
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.119
and hence it's legitimate then to destroy, to destroy vast
579
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:54.360
amount of people, there's no compunction, there's no objective morality
580
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:56.920
in it. There's some notional good for some class in
581
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:00.239
the future, even though technology will take over work, even
582
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:04.599
though that's a fundamental assumption. So ideas like the dignity
583
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:08.360
of the individual, ideas like the protection of legal rights
584
00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:12.000
and modern terms, ideas of having a right to restitution,
585
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.360
even things like the law of negligence, even when it
586
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:17.360
was articulated by the courts, the law of negligence, which
587
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:21.119
is useful for making sure that people do things properly,
588
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:25.760
and you know, so the cure industry being careless. So
589
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:28.320
that was articulated on the basis by the House of
590
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:32.199
Lords and in the end of the twenties and started
591
00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:38.880
the thirties, and on the basis of Christian principle. But
592
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.239
in Christianity we have to love our neighbor, who in
593
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.199
law is my neighbor, anyone that can be damaged by it.
594
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.119
That's the laws so extrapolated, this is the basis. These
595
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:51.719
all these principles the invisible fabric of our society. The
596
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.239
idea that you're responsible for your acts, or even the
597
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:58.960
punishment that people should be punished for the crime. These
598
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:05.039
are all fundamentally associated with theology that was christian which
599
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:08.239
incorporated the Greco Roman things. It's not people say, well,
600
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.920
I want to live in ancient Greece or something. They're
601
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:15.800
also clever enough, But Christianity took you know, from Aristotle
602
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.920
and Plato or whatever, from the from the Roman theories,
603
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:21.719
and and this is the culture that people that your
604
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:26.599
expectations living in the West up too recently were predictable
605
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:29.599
on the basis of a shared culture. So that's gone
606
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:32.800
going now. And your claim, well I have I have
607
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:36.920
a right to this, a right to whatever, this can
608
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:42.599
be undermined very very easily if they're not from God, because,
609
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:47.400
for example, another principle that people haven't paid attention to
610
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:51.639
their Every country has what's called continuity of government plans.
611
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.519
That means if some catastrophe happens, a different system of
612
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:58.639
government would take over. The American the American continuity of
613
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.440
government plans was developed in the eighties, in particular by
614
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:06.599
Donald Rumsfeldt when you be CEO of a pharmaceutical company
615
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.079
with Dick Cheney, and they developed this what will happen
616
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:12.320
when we can't have if we couldn't have the Senate
617
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:15.519
and Congress and whatever, so you have this system that
618
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:18.199
will come in. Ireland has the same, Spain has the same.
619
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.599
So if a catastrophe happened, some kind of global catastrophe
620
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:24.800
or whatever, well then you can have a system that
621
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:28.199
comes in automatically. And once you have an emergency situation,
622
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:31.360
there's no claim to legal rights. You can't say, well,
623
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:32.760
I have a right to this, you count it is.
624
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:35.440
Anything can be done. Anything can be done under the
625
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:39.280
emergency legislation. There's no restrict especially if it's something analogous
626
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:42.880
to a war or whatever. So those things can happen
627
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:47.280
and will happen, and we could we could face a
628
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.320
as a prelude of the global governance a a system
629
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:56.559
of military military control, for example. And the idea of
630
00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:00.199
rights which come from God mean they come from from
631
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:05.679
God originally, that your dignity comes from this theology, that
632
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:09.119
your reflection of God in some way. So once you
633
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:11.800
begin to cut them out, you don't have anyone to
634
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:14.760
appeal to. You don't have any system to appeal to,
635
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.119
you don't have any right to And that's why they're
636
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:20.840
already saying, you have a mobile phone, you're a hybrid,
637
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:24.679
you're a cyborg. You're not human, and as you're not human,
638
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:31.280
you're an animal. This is what Hararis says. Jeffrey Hinton says.
639
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:33.000
You know, he says, oh, I want to save you
640
00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:37.519
from the dangers of AI that he helped create. And
641
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:40.559
by the way, there is no God and humans not special.
642
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.880
Is the This is the prelude towards totalitarianism. This is
643
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.760
the exact same principle we have both from the left
644
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:52.840
and both from the right. So the Christian theology gives
645
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.079
an anthropology which explains why the human is special and
646
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:00.880
why they deserve on an individual basis to be treated
647
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:05.079
with care and compassion. These are being thrown out the window.
648
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:09.440
The basis of the protection for people are being allowing.
649
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:14.440
Therefore the Princess, the kings of the earth, who were
650
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:19.239
thwarted by by the Church in the full expression of
651
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.960
their will to power and their metaphysics of power, will
652
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:26.679
be thrown out. Now on the last point, when you
653
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:32.079
talked about the interviewer, the father think about and you
654
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:38.400
mentioned this in the other interview. You did so as
655
00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:41.000
people saw the Christian brothers in Ireland, and there was
656
00:41:41.079 --> 00:41:43.599
there was some bad eggs in there, and they can't
657
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.119
all be set tired with the same brush, but there
658
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:49.639
were certainly fellows in there that were that were attracted
659
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:55.159
to boys for example. Now the argument comes then, because
660
00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:01.840
there were bad Christian brothers who were obviously acting inconsistently
661
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:07.440
with Catholicism and with Christianity, and whose victims were Catholic,
662
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:11.679
that the remaining Catholics should as well as compensate in
663
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.679
them as they should do, they should reject their own
664
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:20.440
Catholicism because this exceptions as has presented something which is
665
00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:24.079
not Catholic. It's a very weird argument that people have
666
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.519
gone with that. So not only have they robbed you
667
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:30.280
of a particular context, and certainly the Church has to
668
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:33.800
be criticized for his management of these things. But the
669
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:36.800
rate of abuse of priests compared to other some other
670
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:41.519
sports trainers, for example, disc jockeys. Look at the amount
671
00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:48.000
of it's been amplified beyond any reasonable portion. The problem
672
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:54.800
of abuse is insidious and pervasive and continual. So people
673
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.679
tell me about what happened in nat you know, in
674
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:58.559
Ireland of the fifties, and how bad it was.
675
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:00.000
Actually a lot.
676
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:02.559
Of most of the abuse the vast majority was against boys,
677
00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:05.679
not against women. Funny enough, so this is an odd
678
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:10.079
aspect of it. The evidence we have is that abuse
679
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:13.159
in Ireland was against boys, but all of a sudden
680
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.639
the picture is that all the abuse was against women.
681
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:20.679
It's a remarkable it's a remarkable transformation, and in that
682
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:25.079
we still haven't We still don't know, and there are
683
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.960
some studies, but there's still not much discourse about this
684
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.519
phenomenon of men being attracted to boys, which is independent
685
00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:35.679
of the Catholic Church. In fact, an argument I make
686
00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:40.400
out in the analysis of this is that the Catholic
687
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.400
Church has been removed from a lot of child care
688
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:49.400
contexts now. But if you read the reports on TUSLA
689
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:53.199
in Ireland, there kids going missing, disappear and have the
690
00:43:53.199 --> 00:44:00.159
system now. So there's tens and there was twenty kids
691
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:04.079
disappeared in a short period from their care. There was
692
00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.239
a court case recently where the judge said it was
693
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:11.440
more dangerous to be in care. There's prostitution going on now.
694
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:13.800
This has gone on now. So all these people that
695
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:15.880
are telling us about what happened in the fifties and
696
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:21.039
how bad it was often we're relying on certain evidence
697
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.800
are sitting silent now when kids are being abused in
698
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:31.960
Ireland now. So what it tells you in strict philosophical
699
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:36.239
causal terms, if the Catholic Church was removed from the
700
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:40.760
situation and this abuse is continuing, that it's not a
701
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:45.119
it wasn't a necessary cause for that thing. It happened beforehand,
702
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:48.079
that it happened after the Magdalen laundries wasn't set up
703
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:51.480
by the Catholic Church for example, they were fulfill a
704
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:54.760
social function. I do know women that.
705
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:56.039
Were brought up in.
706
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:01.440
America for example, who and we're told that you know
707
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:05.840
it was it was a very a terrible process. For example,
708
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:08.480
that that film that was made with Steve Coogan about
709
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:14.400
the noun and the the baby that was adopted and
710
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:18.360
all that. When you look at the story objectively, the
711
00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:22.559
nuns then had pledged not to reveal the identity of
712
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.159
that's that they've taken. You know, that was that everyone
713
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:28.440
in Ireland knew that when I was young that you
714
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:30.800
weren't going to hear. So the idea that they should
715
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.679
tell or whatever is won't they And secondly the child
716
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:37.719
was brought over to America and was educated well and
717
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.119
he ends up working at the White House. It's hardy,
718
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:42.679
it's not it's not going to work out like that.
719
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:44.920
And the stories of the kids disappearing and doubling at
720
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:48.119
the moment. So there's an awful lot of nonsense about
721
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:50.920
about the stuff. I think it's been very unfair about
722
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:53.760
the nuns. But this is where where we're we're talking
723
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:57.679
about a culture of lies. Apart from the objective evidence,
724
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:00.400
you one can present and the good studies.
725
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:00.599
There are there.
726
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:04.000
There are a massive amount of lives and if you look,
727
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:09.199
for example, one factor that's not not emphasized in chapter
728
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:11.920
thirty five of the Mother and Child Cares Home Report,
729
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:15.360
it explains about the medical experiments that were done by
730
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:20.079
Glaxo Smith Client in the Irish homes and without knowledge
731
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:25.639
of the religious that went told about and permitted in
732
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:28.920
some way by the civil service. So there was eleven
733
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.119
different from the time the Free State was formed. There
734
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:36.679
was eleven different sets of experiments with experimental drugs on
735
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:41.000
kids and Glaxo Smid client provided the evidence of that,
736
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.800
but they denied all responsibility.
737
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:46.119
Just so I got this clear, you're saying that there
738
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:50.079
was experiments done on these kids. How far back was this?
739
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:54.760
Going back to the establishment of the Free State with
740
00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:57.679
various companies that Blacks and spit Client that became worn
741
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:07.039
the welcome foundation of records. So the British companies were
742
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:13.280
coming over to Ireland without without medical authority, and we're
743
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:18.320
managing to get into do experiments on the kids in
744
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:21.639
these homes. Now the evidence the nuns or whoever was
745
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:25.159
in charge didn't seem they were relying on the medical professionals.
746
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.519
There's no evidence that they were colluding in any of this.
747
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:32.599
But at the time then when this report came out,
748
00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:35.719
there was a massive attack on the norns, a massive
749
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:38.960
attack on the norns. Everyone was you know, the nons. No, no,
750
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:41.880
there was nothing about the pharmaceutical companies. And that's there
751
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:46.280
in chapter thirty five. And they say, well, there's no
752
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:49.840
evidence of damage and all that, but there certainly was.
753
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:52.760
And this is a shockun aspect of it. So they
754
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:55.920
were clearly breaking the law. They won't be paying damages.
755
00:47:56.199 --> 00:48:00.360
The Irish citizens are going to be paying damages for this,
756
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.360
for these things. So it's another brilliant way to blame
757
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:13.159
the Irish, to blame the church, and to create escapegoat
758
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.760
so and I say, people.
759
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:16.000
Can read that.
760
00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:18.239
It's chapter thirty five in the Mother in Care so
761
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:22.199
and it barely you mention, barely you mentioned in the things.
762
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.280
And when you look at a lot of celebrities, a
763
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:27.760
lot of these people that are going on about the church,
764
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:31.239
a lot of them have links to big pharma, to
765
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:36.039
television programs that are run by and sponsored by pharmaceutical companies.
766
00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:40.559
So let people believe what they want to believe. If
767
00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:43.920
they don't look at the evidence and they accept lies. Well,
768
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:46.119
then you have to live with the consequences. So I'm
769
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:49.480
a lot more pragmatic about these things. I'm not going
770
00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:52.679
to persuading loads of people about the evidence that they
771
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:56.920
haven't bothered to look at. But once you make stupid decisions,
772
00:48:57.800 --> 00:48:59.719
and then you get in and say, well, as a result,
773
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:03.280
I'm not gonna I'm I'm rejecting christ and all that
774
00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:06.199
and who you know, and that's grant take the consequences,
775
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:11.760
but but don't deny that then, or don't not take
776
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:13.639
the God don't be willing to say, well, I'm willing
777
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.480
to take the consequences because if this guy did that
778
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:18.880
and whatever like that, but then the whole thing must
779
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:23.760
be wrong as opposed to regard as exceptional. So and
780
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.280
I'm not I'm not. All I'm saying is that in
781
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:29.760
all these decisions you have to look at one has
782
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.360
to look at the evidence, and there's been a gross
783
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:36.719
distortion of the of the evidence, of gross suppression of
784
00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:39.400
the entirety, and the other group that there's two other
785
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:45.599
groups that escape liability. There's that in some way or accountability.
786
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.599
There's all the people in the civil service that facilitated
787
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:53.639
these systems that firm and there's letters from for example,
788
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:56.880
when they're setting up the rtain and expanding the urtain system,
789
00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.000
where they're saying, well, we don't want all these people,
790
00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:02.559
We don't we can't. For example, the nuns were saying,
791
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:05.480
you know that we don't have the resources here because
792
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:08.519
people were bringing dead, dying children to them, et cetera,
793
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:12.199
that we don't have the resources and the God. So
794
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:15.599
the civil Service got away with murder in many senses.
795
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:18.079
And when I'm in Ireland, i hear people from the
796
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:19.800
civil Service and I'm saying, well, what do you think
797
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.360
of Ireland now? And they tell me, you know what
798
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.760
you said, were to tell me, well, thanks be to God,
799
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:28.000
that's it used to be run by the Catholic Church.
800
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:31.639
So they're in on the game of destroying the Catholic Church,
801
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:36.679
irrespective of the fact that the nineteen thirty seven Constitution
802
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:41.480
which founds the state on which they work for, was
803
00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:44.000
dedicated to the Catholic Church. So in that sense they
804
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.559
have been revolutionary as well. And the other group that
805
00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:50.280
avoid all responsibility is the legal profession. So the legal
806
00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:54.280
profession we're involved in all of these this thing. So
807
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:58.079
a lot of kids were sent to homes, for example,
808
00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.840
not because the church wanted them, but because they were
809
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:04.800
in some kind of limbo limbo zone and there wasn't
810
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:08.599
social services. So people talk about say Marlborough House was
811
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:11.639
one near me, and that wasn't a church one. It
812
00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:15.280
was for children who were involved in the criminal justice system.
813
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:17.480
So I remember going by my mother and looking in
814
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:21.320
and you could see the loads of kids, seven year
815
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:23.679
olds whatever, playing in the thing, and they're living in
816
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:27.199
a Victorian institution. But this was set up by the
817
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:31.360
British and it was continued, and the legal profession continued
818
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:35.159
in this, so that you had abuse in all these
819
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:39.000
abuses a factor in all these homes, not particular to
820
00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:43.480
the church or whatever. It occurred in the secular state,
821
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.360
as it did in lations secular teachers as well. The
822
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:50.880
boockets of evidence about that. So in this, in this context,
823
00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:56.239
the legal profession were there. They didn't say, hold on,
824
00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:58.840
what's going on about this? This is terrible. They didn't,
825
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:01.840
you know, they getting paid all along long along the way.
826
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:05.840
When they have the inquiries, they get paid as well.
827
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.239
When that are compensation claims, they get paid as well.
828
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.920
When they come to the hepatitis they made millions out
829
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:14.960
of it. But then you know, then you have the
830
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:17.800
COVID thing and they're silent in the thing, and then
831
00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:21.639
they'll be there for the compensation. So the legal profession
832
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:24.760
were a part of all of this, and they've managed
833
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:29.400
to avoid any sense that they're responsible for anything that
834
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:32.559
went on because they were involved in this criminal justice
835
00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:36.800
system that had kids in and there's never been a
836
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:40.880
finger pointed at them. So the system that then went
837
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:46.360
on to radically change Ireland managed to do so without
838
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:51.159
any sense of moral accountability for its systematic, systematic role.
839
00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:55.719
So in my view, there hasn't been a full analysis
840
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:58.599
because a lot of the people involved in these things
841
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:02.280
have vested interest in continuing. And then there's a huge
842
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:06.000
political factor to it. On the Trotsky point, I cited
843
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:11.840
from to the Fourth International from the Trotskys in Ireland
844
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:15.719
which says in nineteen forty four remarkably that the Catholic
845
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.719
Church would be eclipsed. So the movement to get rid
846
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.679
of the Catholic Church was a political movement that suited
847
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:25.599
a whole range of things, and they were the whipping
848
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:31.519
boy for a lot of a lot of sociological factors
849
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:36.519
that we can't my view honestly historically put down to
850
00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:42.079
put down to them. But as I say, as a pragmatist,
851
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:46.960
people must take the consequences of the decisions. So when
852
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.119
people are not neutral in these things and the lives,
853
00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:53.320
when saying well I'm against this and this is okay,
854
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:56.320
go with the consequences of your decisions. But you must
855
00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:58.760
you must take them, and you also must the same
856
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.840
principles apply the decisions you make about who you are
857
00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:06.159
and your soul. You're going to all of the traditions,
858
00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:09.360
and in particular the Catholic tradition says, yeah, there are
859
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:12.519
consequences with what you do on and I believe in that.
860
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:17.760
It's consistent with you know, so throw the baby out
861
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:21.760
of the bad water. But don't be complaining when the
862
00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:24.519
next phase comes in that that that's all I would say.
863
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:28.159
Yeah, yeah, so I you know, even just gone back
864
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:29.360
to you know, the last time I was back in
865
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:31.679
When I go back Tirland. Now, you know, sometimes I
866
00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:34.599
go in and you know, my mum or whoever will
867
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:37.119
have you know, RT on on the TV. I can't
868
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.039
even watch it. Everything is just like you know, it's
869
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:43.000
just it's just cringe. You can't I can't watch Artie.
870
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:46.920
It's just like everything's trendy, everything's gay, everything's just like
871
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:50.679
it's just so ultra left. It's like and there's this
872
00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:53.239
like you get this vibe all the time of the
873
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:56.239
anti church. You know, they're you know, anti Catholic. Like
874
00:54:56.440 --> 00:55:01.199
it was like some like kind of it was like backwards,
875
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:05.559
this backwardness in our past that we should ignore. It's
876
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:09.800
it's really has changed over the years, and I don't know,
877
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:12.480
I don't know what to say about it. How do
878
00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.840
you see that as a direct influence from Trotsky? Do
879
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:17.920
you see that as a direct influence from some of
880
00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:21.840
the you know, the revolutionaries that came after him.
881
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:27.719
There was a there was a case in the thirties
882
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:33.199
against the Dominicans. I mentioned it in the book, and
883
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:35.719
they had a magazine called The Rosary, and in the
884
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:40.360
Rosary they accused an Irish Republican of being funded by
885
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:43.960
Russia and he denied it and he sued them, but
886
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:47.320
he lost the case. Hes so he lost the case
887
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:51.840
I think in the High Court. So right from the
888
00:55:51.880 --> 00:56:00.159
foundation of the state, Russia had been involved in and
889
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:04.719
coming terms so the Communist International. So if we go
890
00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:09.000
back to nineteen nineteen, we have Trotsky, who is fighting
891
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:11.360
then a civil war. So he's the commander of the
892
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:17.280
having been involved fundamentally in the Russian Revolution in Saint Petersburg,
893
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:19.119
he'd been there in nineteen oh five, but he was
894
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:23.320
there in nineteen seventeen, and he's really the operational leader,
895
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:28.679
more so than Lenin for example. So nineteen nineteen they're
896
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:34.400
fighting a war against the maybe sixteen different foreign forces
897
00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:37.639
and national forces who're saying, we don't fancy this Bultumus.
898
00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:42.760
He's fighting against national forces in Ukraine, which he comes from.
899
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.760
He's able later to, you know, to suggest that he's
900
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:49.639
in favor of Ukrainian independence, but he was fighting against
901
00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:55.360
Ukrainian nationalists. At the same time they had the establishment
902
00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:58.360
of Communist International, you know, so a lot of people
903
00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:02.079
are coming to to it, and he talked at them
904
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:05.280
even though he was going around his train organizing the
905
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:08.679
civil war. And in the context of that, he had
906
00:57:08.719 --> 00:57:12.679
said to the Red Guard in nineteen eighteen, you can
907
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:15.119
do anything you want as long as a further as
908
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:18.880
the revolution, who all long restraint were abolished during the
909
00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:23.800
context of the prosecution of the civil war, so he
910
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:27.039
said basically that we're going to have revolution in all
911
00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:29.880
countries and he wanted and he believed that that was
912
00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:38.800
going to spread. Okay, So that revolutionary's force was operating
913
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:42.840
at various levels continually from them very low level. In Ireland,
914
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:47.119
there were there were Trotskyists who came openly early on
915
00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:52.119
and they rejected and they're throwing out the Catholic Nationalists
916
00:57:52.119 --> 00:58:00.360
wouldn't have it. But over time the Trotskyist endeavor became
917
00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:06.320
much more adaptable. And so Trotsky was born in Ukraine.
918
00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:12.840
He's involved in revolutionary activity. He's he's in New York
919
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:16.239
by the time the revolution happens. He comes back, there's
920
00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:18.920
the First Revolution of February, and there he's involved in
921
00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:22.480
the Bolshevik takeover in the October Revolution, which actually happened
922
00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:27.239
in November. So he's then is a high position. He
923
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:30.599
runs the Red Army, or he's one of the controllers,
924
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:32.719
he's the commander of the Red Army, so he's in.
925
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:33.280
The thick of it.
926
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:37.159
So so he's a really successful revolutionary and that's why
927
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:44.360
why why Churchill feared him. And he prosecutes the war
928
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:47.920
against internal dissidents as well against other revolutionaries like the
929
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:53.880
socialist revolutionaries. They warred on them and the forces under him,
930
00:58:54.239 --> 00:59:00.760
like used poison gas against the Russians, et cetera. Massive executions.
931
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:04.280
He sets up concentration camps in Russia and that's what
932
00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:08.840
they were called, concentration camps on the British model. And
933
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:12.280
he wants to export revolution. He's a world revolution and
934
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:18.960
that's he's a successful revolution. He's shown in Russia, and
935
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:20.679
Churchill is.
936
00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:21.159
Afraid of that.
937
00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:25.039
So in nineteen nineteen he's saying spread revolution to the world.
938
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:28.599
He's in government, and without going through all the details,
939
00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:33.960
he's eventually exiled because of the rise of Stalin, and
940
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:38.960
he's in exile for a number in Turkey and Norway
941
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:45.320
and France and Spain and America, and in exile he
942
00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:49.519
has to operate differently. He still wants world revolution. Stalin disagrees.
943
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:53.320
He wants revolution in one country. So Trotsky wants world revolution.
944
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:57.320
He understands the power of culture. He understands the power
945
00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:00.199
of the pen. He was from a boy, he was
946
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:02.599
at school. He was staying with his relations. When he
947
01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:08.000
went away to you know, secondary school. He was staying
948
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:11.039
with his relations and they had a printer. He starts
949
01:00:11.079 --> 01:00:16.639
writing letters. He understands the power of the printing press.
950
01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:20.480
So from being a body. He understands the power of propaganda,
951
01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:24.480
and he's the propagandas for the revolution, he writes the
952
01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:28.159
history of the Russian Revolution. He writes the Russian Revolution
953
01:00:29.239 --> 01:00:32.880
as it's ongoing or just after it, but well it's ongoing.
954
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:35.880
He's writing it, so he's describing it. He understands the
955
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:41.719
power of the control of narrative before it becomes big
956
01:00:41.800 --> 01:00:45.079
in American context, so he's a genius in relation to
957
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:50.079
describing the message. And he also he also has surreptitious
958
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:52.880
attacks on the church, so he's sending out memos how
959
01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:54.559
you can set up an attack on the church to
960
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.239
get the goods, so that they looted the church as
961
01:00:57.320 --> 01:00:58.920
as they were always going to do because he hated
962
01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:02.239
he hated it. Didn't understand he didn't believe in anything spiritual.
963
01:01:03.159 --> 01:01:07.239
But in the Irish context there was always a small thing.
964
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:11.360
I mean, James Connolly was was a marxistem effectively, but
965
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:13.880
it was never a big a big thing. And this
966
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.599
the big issue is could you have had a Marxism
967
01:01:18.039 --> 01:01:22.719
which wasn't so hostile to the church. Now I think
968
01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:26.079
there was a possibility that you could have had something
969
01:01:26.199 --> 01:01:28.840
like that, but you can't have it if you're someone
970
01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:32.719
like Trotzky, because their driving force arguably is this anti
971
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:35.800
anti God thing. They make it bigger than it actually
972
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:39.880
is for what they claim, and historically they claim that
973
01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:43.199
the Church was central in the feudal system, which it wasn't.
974
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:46.280
They didn't understand the feudal system. It's it's cleared, I
975
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:51.840
think from critics of Marx that they oversimplified the church's
976
01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:54.199
role in that. So the Church was a taker of
977
01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:56.159
the system, wasn't a maker of the system. It was
978
01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:59.960
in between. So there are reasons why the Church had
979
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:05.119
to go were not solely about the structural things. In
980
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:09.519
the Irish context, a lot of people who are Catholics
981
01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:11.840
would have described themselves as socialists, but they were in
982
01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:14.639
communists because communist because they weren't going to give up God.
983
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:15.719
That's the whole key.
984
01:02:16.119 --> 01:02:19.519
So the difference between the socialists and the communists, where
985
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:23.039
the Communists were extremely hostile to God and to the Church,
986
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:26.199
but actually in relation to what they claimed to be,
987
01:02:26.360 --> 01:02:29.679
you know, the working class in favor of that that
988
01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:33.599
they appeared on paper to be wanting similar things. But
989
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:36.519
the Irish would have never gone for the rejection of God.
990
01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:40.079
What was is the point. They understood the limitations of
991
01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:43.239
having a non spiritual view of the world, but it
992
01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:47.440
was incomprehensible in Ireland not to have a spiritual context,
993
01:02:48.079 --> 01:02:53.239
so Trotsky's when Trotsky was next, he had to work differently.
994
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:58.519
So he inspired a movement of entryism, in particular nineteen
995
01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:00.880
thirty eight to the Fourth International. So the idea was
996
01:03:01.320 --> 01:03:05.519
that you didn't have the numbers to change through a revolution,
997
01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:08.719
so you entered into another organization. So you might enter
998
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:12.920
into and pretend you're you know, you agree with the organization,
999
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:15.199
with the objective that you take it over or change
1000
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:18.880
or influence it. Now that idea has been crucial because
1001
01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:24.719
a lot of organizations were infiltrated the exact same technique
1002
01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:28.360
as the World Economic Forum do. From the top, they say, oh, yeah,
1003
01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:31.639
we control these guys in your country the same process
1004
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:35.639
as go through Builderberg Bohemian growth. You control a few
1005
01:03:35.639 --> 01:03:38.800
guys and they will sell out whatever constituency they have,
1006
01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:42.360
and that has happened in nearly every European country, not
1007
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:46.199
least in Ireland. So it's not from the mass underneath,
1008
01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:50.719
it's from certain individuals you you know, become compromised or
1009
01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:54.320
become allied or become commercially dependent or whatever. You know,
1010
01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:57.519
there's all those things will cut into all the detail.
1011
01:03:58.159 --> 01:04:03.800
So then you have this phenomenon of political agents who
1012
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:07.239
are not ostensibly Trotskyists. So and you have a lot
1013
01:04:07.239 --> 01:04:08.559
of parties and you can look at them in the
1014
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:13.599
Irish Contact and they're scribe as formerly Trotskyist parties. And
1015
01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:16.159
I'm not going to go through all the details of them,
1016
01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:18.320
not interested in what they do on their own little things.
1017
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:23.280
But so if you look at England in the nineteen eighties,
1018
01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:28.679
you had massive movements, the anti Nazi movement, the anti
1019
01:04:28.679 --> 01:04:30.840
fascist movement, the anti race and a lot of them
1020
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.519
were Trotskyist movement. So what they were very successful doing
1021
01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:40.920
was having small groups of very dedicated activists who deserve
1022
01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:46.559
admiration for their success. Most commentator to say Trotskyism has
1023
01:04:46.599 --> 01:04:49.559
been a massive failure. It's over. I don't believe that.
1024
01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:54.559
Certainly there's variants and morphologies of it. But so the
1025
01:04:54.920 --> 01:05:00.280
anti war movement was largely dead by Trotskis organizations, anti
1026
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:04.559
racism movement. So what they do is what they've been
1027
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:08.880
very successful at doing is doing what Trotsky said to do,
1028
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:13.119
is that if you are a communist fan guard. You
1029
01:05:13.239 --> 01:05:16.719
try and have a revolution in society. Now, once that
1030
01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:20.480
revolution happens, once you're doing that, you're going to get opposition,
1031
01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:24.000
and that's what fascism is. So he says it that
1032
01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:29.760
fascism is a response to communism. So by definition, if
1033
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.360
you set up with this communist revolution, you're going to
1034
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:35.119
have fascists because they're anyone who's against you. This is
1035
01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:37.880
what people didn't understand. What they've been called fascist all
1036
01:05:37.880 --> 01:05:40.960
the time. It's utterly consistent, but they haven't bothered to
1037
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:45.320
look at the history. So he knew that there would
1038
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:48.159
be fascism in Germany because the communist thing was going
1039
01:05:48.199 --> 01:05:50.679
to cause it. Now that's not to justify it, but
1040
01:05:51.320 --> 01:05:54.480
it's action and a reaction in the kind of scientific way,
1041
01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:57.320
in a dialectic way. He also knew that loads of
1042
01:05:57.400 --> 01:06:01.239
Jews would be killed because they were they were annihilated
1043
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:04.320
because they were an aspect of the thing. Again, that's
1044
01:06:04.360 --> 01:06:08.840
not to justify fascism. Again, I'm against anti anti human
1045
01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:12.519
extreme totality area, so I don't go from that to
1046
01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:15.119
the other thing. As I said, the Catholic way was
1047
01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:17.639
a middle way, despite the fact that they wanted to
1048
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:21.039
push them and make them a put them into the
1049
01:06:21.079 --> 01:06:27.239
category of the reactionary forces. So this policy has been
1050
01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:30.440
very very successful. You set up something anti this and
1051
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:33.400
anti that, and then you can re engineer society. Anti racism,
1052
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:37.480
he's often identified with the growth of the the the.
1053
01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:38.679
Anti racism movement.
1054
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:42.400
Now it's not to say that, so this is about
1055
01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:47.079
the use of these sociological categories to change society. He's
1056
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:52.079
a classic anti fascist. So the antifa movement is really,
1057
01:06:52.639 --> 01:06:57.039
as far as I can see, traceable most likely to him,
1058
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:01.599
and that's a very very significant movement. And he's clear
1059
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:05.320
that the revolutionary is not a peaceful They're going to
1060
01:07:05.320 --> 01:07:07.880
do damage, and they're entitled to do damage. Of course,
1061
01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:10.840
there's no morality, there's you know. So so we can
1062
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:14.719
see this also in the modern left movements. They're openly
1063
01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:18.559
more violent and will be more violent, and you can
1064
01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:23.920
see it. So all of these cultural factors influenced the
1065
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:27.840
environment in our end is certainly when people have been complacent,
1066
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:31.320
complacent about what they taught was going on. And it's
1067
01:07:31.400 --> 01:07:35.719
very interesting other little dimensions. For example, Connor Cruz O'Brien
1068
01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:42.119
somehow was always presented and he presented himself as a conservative,
1069
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:45.280
you know, although he's you know, a Labor Party and
1070
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:47.920
all that. But he writes about Edmund Burke, who's the
1071
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:54.559
classic conservative, but he had Rudy Deutsche staying with him
1072
01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:57.639
out in Hose in the sixties when he was he
1073
01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:00.320
was there was a threat to his life. And he's
1074
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:03.000
the guy that talked about the march through the institutions.
1075
01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:06.679
So you're thinking about these revolutionaries are outen places like
1076
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.199
hoth and all that in this normal part of Irish society.
1077
01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:12.039
And I talk to people who were very involved and
1078
01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:14.760
they say to me in Ireland and very involved in politics,
1079
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:17.840
I say that that person is a communist. And I
1080
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:20.880
didn't believe, for example, that they were being literal, but
1081
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:24.880
as it transpired, they were talking about a you know,
1082
01:08:25.079 --> 01:08:28.359
they were committed to the thing. So it's been ongoing
1083
01:08:28.359 --> 01:08:32.840
in Ireland to the extent that really it's very very
1084
01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:38.760
difficult not to see Ireland as being aligned in its
1085
01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:43.159
institution as governance. Very much so with this with this
1086
01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:49.920
odd Bolshevik or black rock Bolshevism, which is doesn't matter
1087
01:08:49.960 --> 01:08:53.039
whether it's the exact same principle. Deng shell Ping says,
1088
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:55.119
it doesn't matter whether you use a black cat or
1089
01:08:55.119 --> 01:08:57.039
a white cat to catch the mouse. So the Irish
1090
01:08:57.079 --> 01:08:59.680
mouse is well and truly cut, so you can use both.
1091
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:04.239
The point is that they're both anti homeostatic force, and
1092
01:09:04.279 --> 01:09:07.079
the force that they have to get rid of, in
1093
01:09:07.159 --> 01:09:10.439
particular in Europe was the Catholic Church. They have to
1094
01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:12.560
get rid of that because it's the only one that
1095
01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:17.199
will protect the individual and whose doctrines and principles have
1096
01:09:17.560 --> 01:09:21.159
a will create a constituency where people would rather give
1097
01:09:21.199 --> 01:09:26.720
their life than submit to a system which which forced
1098
01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:29.760
unwilling to die for it. And that's why the Irish
1099
01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:33.600
were so dangerous and people now I hear it from
1100
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:39.720
Irish commentators saying, oh, well, the Irish, the revolutionaries never
1101
01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:42.600
achieved any or the Holy People never achieved every day,
1102
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:47.520
all of them. When I one of my father's uncle,
1103
01:09:48.039 --> 01:09:51.359
he's gone, he's arrested. In nineteen sixteen, he's been brought
1104
01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:55.279
brought the cattle boat. Arthur Griffith happened to be on
1105
01:09:55.319 --> 01:09:58.680
the same boat being transported to a different prison, and
1106
01:09:58.720 --> 01:10:01.119
they were saying the Rosary in hold in the cattle
1107
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:04.600
in the cattle pen when they were brought to prison
1108
01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:07.359
on a Friday, and they were given meat. They wouldn't
1109
01:10:07.359 --> 01:10:12.119
need it, so these were intently Catholic, So I regard
1110
01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:14.079
it as an insult when I hear all these people
1111
01:10:14.119 --> 01:10:18.039
telling me that all these guys who were holy didn't
1112
01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:20.640
achieve anything. Who was them that did all and were
1113
01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:23.319
willing to die for their country, for their religion, for
1114
01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:27.640
their fellow humans. There's a lot of armchair experts distorting history,
1115
01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:31.000
which I regard as whether they were right or wrong
1116
01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:33.359
on what they were doing the Church and the Civil War.
1117
01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:36.479
BIT didn't think they were right, but I mean, when
1118
01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:42.039
you choose to dishonor honorable men and honor dishonorable men
1119
01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:45.000
and women, you must take the consequences. So in all
1120
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:49.560
these arguments, I'm not going to fight against what's going on.
1121
01:10:49.760 --> 01:10:52.439
People have made choices, and I think they've met a
1122
01:10:52.439 --> 01:10:56.640
lot of bad choices in the contact, So I don't
1123
01:10:56.680 --> 01:10:59.800
just put it down to Trotskism. I see Trotskyism as
1124
01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:09.439
a major aspect of the international atheist materialist movement, and interestingly,
1125
01:11:09.479 --> 01:11:15.720
the Stalinists in London and the British Communist Party they
1126
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:19.359
claim so they are of course hostile to the Trotskyists,
1127
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:24.079
but they claim that the Trotskysts are run by big
1128
01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:28.039
business and or the state. So they claim that Trotskyism
1129
01:11:28.159 --> 01:11:32.000
is going through another revival in Britain, and they claim
1130
01:11:32.119 --> 01:11:38.640
that it's associated with harnessing the power of the Palestinian
1131
01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:44.079
movement for other social for other social reasons. So I'm
1132
01:11:44.119 --> 01:11:47.840
not the only one wondering about. The odd thing is
1133
01:11:47.840 --> 01:11:51.800
that people like Professor John Kelly say, well, the Trotskyists
1134
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:58.119
haven't achieved anything. I believe they've achieved huge destabilizing cultural forces.
1135
01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:03.399
They were also the ones in their anti Nazi movements
1136
01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:07.119
that opposed the anti immigration movement, so that's what was
1137
01:12:07.159 --> 01:12:09.520
the director. Nazis were the people who didn't want immigration,
1138
01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:16.239
so they were very successful in changing the views in
1139
01:12:16.359 --> 01:12:20.960
Britain so that it became unacceptable to say that you
1140
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:23.920
were against immigration. That was largely a part. Now you say, well,
1141
01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:27.880
why is that both Trotskyists and big business want to
1142
01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:32.079
change society? So what Trotsky Trotskyists would say about changes
1143
01:12:32.399 --> 01:12:35.800
is exactly the same as what Peter Sutherland, the Director
1144
01:12:35.920 --> 01:12:41.800
General the World Trade Organization, former Irish Attorney General, EC commissioner,
1145
01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:47.520
head of British Patrol, Chairman of British Petroleum, etc. And
1146
01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:50.720
then worked for United Nations. He said that Britain was
1147
01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:54.199
too homogeneous and needed to be more heterogeneous. Who is
1148
01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:56.680
he to decide that? But this is the same idea.
1149
01:12:57.199 --> 01:13:02.000
Both forces left and right complemented each other. So it's
1150
01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:07.439
the same thing in relation to the COVID thing. Both
1151
01:13:07.880 --> 01:13:10.439
you had Trotzky's party saying we need more medicine, we
1152
01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:13.159
need more access to brow, you need more you know,
1153
01:13:13.960 --> 01:13:16.600
the exact same thing as the pharmaceutical companies were saying,
1154
01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:21.039
So these are you know so again people think they're
1155
01:13:21.640 --> 01:13:26.399
fantastic or whatever. All I say is, you know, good
1156
01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:27.039
luck to you.
1157
01:13:27.039 --> 01:13:31.319
You know on that one, James, just sort of curiosity.
1158
01:13:31.319 --> 01:13:32.319
What do you think of that? What do you make
1159
01:13:32.319 --> 01:13:35.319
of the whole work situation back in Ireland? You know,
1160
01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:37.239
the last time I was back in Ireland, I actually
1161
01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:39.680
met his dad. I was in there, I was visiting
1162
01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:42.159
somebody in the hospital and met his dad. I was
1163
01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:46.199
talking to his father for a few minutes. What do
1164
01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:48.960
you make of that situation. You come from a legal background,
1165
01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:52.319
and you know, some people say, well, you know, he
1166
01:13:52.359 --> 01:13:55.720
broke the court order, he deserves to be in jail.
1167
01:13:55.800 --> 01:13:58.199
Other people are saying, well he's in jail as a
1168
01:13:58.279 --> 01:14:02.039
direct consequence of a consequence obvious belief that you know,
1169
01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:04.279
a boy should be a boy, a girl should be
1170
01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:06.399
a girl, et cetera. What do you make of that
1171
01:14:06.439 --> 01:14:07.159
whole situation?
1172
01:14:09.079 --> 01:14:12.760
Again, I think there's nuance in this and there's been
1173
01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:17.640
a lot of oversimplification. So the first thing is that
1174
01:14:18.199 --> 01:14:23.199
I have great sympathy for a person who's who has
1175
01:14:23.239 --> 01:14:28.439
their beliefs and who who lives by it. So so
1176
01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:34.159
I support the the right to not to be forced
1177
01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:40.720
if that's the case. Two, you know, they use pronouns
1178
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:44.439
et cetera in that, so I support the argument. But
1179
01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:47.159
the argument has never been made out in court. So
1180
01:14:47.279 --> 01:14:50.800
looking at from a legal perspective, you would have to say,
1181
01:14:51.279 --> 01:14:54.600
from you know, an Irish context or any any context,
1182
01:14:55.720 --> 01:14:59.560
that nearly everything that I've seen done, nearly everything has
1183
01:14:59.600 --> 01:15:02.840
been bad done in the court context. The idea that
1184
01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:05.720
you can go into a court and stand up, you
1185
01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:07.520
can do that when you don't recognize the court. But
1186
01:15:07.520 --> 01:15:09.560
then you must take you must take the consequence. This
1187
01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:12.119
is what the IRA is. I don't recognize the court. Okay,
1188
01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:16.720
you don't recognize the court. You know, you must take
1189
01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:19.960
the consequences of that. So the idea that you can
1190
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:22.560
walk into court and stand up, now this is not
1191
01:15:22.600 --> 01:15:24.279
a defender the system. But that's just the way the
1192
01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:27.159
system is. And you can stand up and start shouting
1193
01:15:27.159 --> 01:15:31.760
and things like that. It's not going to work. Now,
1194
01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:38.239
the the legal system is a very particular system. By definition,
1195
01:15:38.680 --> 01:15:42.600
they can't. They have to fit in the pattern that's there.
1196
01:15:42.680 --> 01:15:43.000
You have to.
1197
01:15:43.039 --> 01:15:45.399
It's a game, if you like, it's a game of
1198
01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:48.840
important consequences. But you can't go into a soccer game
1199
01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:50.720
and say, look, I'm have me tennis racket here and
1200
01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:52.880
I want to you know, it doesn't.
1201
01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:53.199
Work like that.
1202
01:15:54.119 --> 01:15:59.039
So despite the serious objections that can be made to
1203
01:16:00.640 --> 01:16:03.520
whatever the skill is and the system and the whole things,
1204
01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:10.079
I cannot see that the judges are not forced to
1205
01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:12.319
do what what what? What they did in that context
1206
01:16:12.319 --> 01:16:16.239
from a legal perspective. Now people say, well, a court
1207
01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:19.079
is not a political arena. It's not about who you're
1208
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:23.199
sympathy and sympathetic toward. Logically, if you were in my
1209
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:24.920
court and you stood up and said I'd throw you
1210
01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:28.359
out if you were cheeky to me, I would have
1211
01:16:28.439 --> 01:16:30.920
no problem. If even that's that's that's the way the
1212
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:33.000
rules are. I'd be very hard on that if it
1213
01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:37.239
was it was in my space. So it just just
1214
01:16:37.239 --> 01:16:44.199
doesn't work in those terms now, so uh, and I
1215
01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:45.439
can't see that it's going.
1216
01:16:45.319 --> 01:16:45.840
To work now.
1217
01:16:46.199 --> 01:16:49.319
It could work as a kind of a general political
1218
01:16:49.359 --> 01:16:51.520
thing where people don't look at the detail and say, well,
1219
01:16:51.560 --> 01:16:53.399
this man is suffered and all that kind of stuff,
1220
01:16:53.439 --> 01:16:57.319
and he become a successful if you like, from a
1221
01:16:57.359 --> 01:16:58.119
marcher figure.
1222
01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:00.000
But even then there are new ones.
1223
01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:03.439
For example, I've listened to them talking and that they
1224
01:17:03.479 --> 01:17:06.760
criticized traditional Catholics for example. You know, as far as
1225
01:17:06.800 --> 01:17:09.119
I heard, as far as I understood what I heard
1226
01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:11.439
in the interview, they were complaining a bit about that.
1227
01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:14.039
I'm saying, hold on a second, that what is it
1228
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:17.640
you're you're you're you're fighting for in relation, because if
1229
01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:20.600
I'm fighting for your rights as well, there's a reciprocity
1230
01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:24.840
that there's a common religious thing, you know, so there's
1231
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:28.159
there's little things about that you begin to ask, well,
1232
01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:31.399
what is the exact principle beyond that, or what what
1233
01:17:31.479 --> 01:17:33.159
are the consequences.
1234
01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:34.359
Of the things, And then.
1235
01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:36.520
There is a if you if you're talking about socio
1236
01:17:36.520 --> 01:17:41.720
political context, you say, well, has this advanced the argument
1237
01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:44.039
that he wants to apart from the case because he's
1238
01:17:44.079 --> 01:17:47.039
making it a general argument, and you know, some of
1239
01:17:47.079 --> 01:17:49.840
these things can achieve a difference of people say I
1240
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:51.680
had enough of that. I'm not listening anymore. I don't
1241
01:17:51.680 --> 01:17:54.119
care that that. You know, in the Irish context that work.
1242
01:17:55.159 --> 01:17:57.359
And what I think is interesting for me is the
1243
01:17:57.359 --> 01:18:03.880
comparison with how the left have have worked so anytime
1244
01:18:04.399 --> 01:18:07.239
that a lot of the cases in Ireland that changed
1245
01:18:07.279 --> 01:18:12.239
the law, whether it be homosexuality, abortion, whatever, they were
1246
01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:17.199
facilitated by political actors. There's no question about that. They're
1247
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:20.279
quite open about that. So they get a case which
1248
01:18:20.359 --> 01:18:23.680
fits well and presented and presented in a way that
1249
01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:28.399
will change, and they present it sensibly. Every case that
1250
01:18:28.439 --> 01:18:32.079
they have taken effectively in relation to changing Ireland in
1251
01:18:32.079 --> 01:18:35.119
a progressive way has been successful, every one of them.
1252
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:38.439
They've changed Ireland to the core, every one of them.
1253
01:18:38.680 --> 01:18:43.840
So this case is not successful in its own terms.
1254
01:18:44.199 --> 01:18:48.720
So from a pragmatic sense, you can choose the laws
1255
01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:52.399
and the kind of moral victory if you want, or
1256
01:18:52.439 --> 01:18:58.720
and compared with the absolutely successful, rhythmically recurrent cases from
1257
01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:03.119
the left, which progress of the re engineer society, if
1258
01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:06.760
you're a pragmatist, then you say, well, okay, well, which
1259
01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:10.720
are you going to invest your energy in I'm sorry,
1260
01:19:10.720 --> 01:19:15.000
but pragmatically in relation to the amount of energy, in
1261
01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:19.119
relation to the strategy, it's not looking to me to
1262
01:19:19.159 --> 01:19:22.000
be successful. I'm very sorry the man is in prison.
1263
01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:25.000
But contempt of court is a very specific thing. I
1264
01:19:25.039 --> 01:19:27.199
was trying to explain it here to people Sweden don't
1265
01:19:27.239 --> 01:19:35.039
understand the particular particularities. The getting into contempt of court
1266
01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:38.520
and having to purge or contempt the court is a
1267
01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:42.279
necessary thing for the function. Now you can compare that
1268
01:19:42.279 --> 01:19:44.640
with loads of other cases where people do different things.
1269
01:19:44.800 --> 01:19:47.840
But I don't see the wisdom of the strategy. And
1270
01:19:47.960 --> 01:19:51.199
christ said you have to be wise as serpents. He
1271
01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:55.880
didn't give us a license to act, to act in
1272
01:19:55.920 --> 01:19:57.720
a way. So I know a lot of people say
1273
01:19:57.840 --> 01:20:02.680
you've been unfair. You're taking As a lawyer, you would
1274
01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:09.239
say this strategy is going nowhere. And really, really, you
1275
01:20:09.319 --> 01:20:11.479
haven't even put on the table. So if they had
1276
01:20:11.560 --> 01:20:14.439
fashion in the case, if they had sat a declaration
1277
01:20:14.520 --> 01:20:17.119
in the High Court from the start that this was
1278
01:20:17.159 --> 01:20:20.600
a that's what that would have put the put on
1279
01:20:20.600 --> 01:20:23.479
on the on the agenda. The courts were not going
1280
01:20:23.560 --> 01:20:26.239
to I don't see that they wouldn't have heard it now.
1281
01:20:26.279 --> 01:20:30.800
I'm very very critical of the entire legal legal profession
1282
01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:32.920
in Ireland. I'm very very critical of what they did
1283
01:20:32.960 --> 01:20:36.600
during COVID. I'm very critical of the failure to contribute
1284
01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:39.399
towards reform. I'm very critical of some of the practices
1285
01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:42.760
I see in this context. But it depends what you want.
1286
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:46.079
If you want a pyrrhic victory, that doesn't change anything.
1287
01:20:47.920 --> 01:20:51.600
That's one thing. But the man is suffering a lot
1288
01:20:52.359 --> 01:20:56.159
in a way that I do not see that. It's
1289
01:20:56.199 --> 01:21:01.960
a stalemate situation. And on less the and and the
1290
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:06.119
other thing about appearing up with the job, you can't
1291
01:21:06.199 --> 01:21:08.399
you can't do that. I mean appearing the job. You've
1292
01:21:08.399 --> 01:21:11.840
been dismissed, the same thing as in a divorce or
1293
01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:15.960
barning order or something. The solution is not to to
1294
01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:18.720
appear and expect people. That's not the way the world
1295
01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:22.960
world works, that that can't work to kind of arrive
1296
01:21:23.119 --> 01:21:25.680
up and say my job is if the relationships have
1297
01:21:25.760 --> 01:21:28.680
broken down, there's no court it's going to allow you
1298
01:21:28.720 --> 01:21:32.319
to walk into that situation. So I don't understand, I
1299
01:21:32.359 --> 01:21:36.479
really do not understand what their tactics or strategy is.
1300
01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:40.159
Now you can and there's a certain point at which
1301
01:21:40.880 --> 01:21:45.399
it's not pragmatic. So again I don't know enough about
1302
01:21:45.399 --> 01:21:47.720
the thing, but that's what the bit i'm seeing, that's
1303
01:21:47.720 --> 01:21:48.760
how I would analyze it.
1304
01:21:49.439 --> 01:21:53.159
Yeah, I'm thinking about Christ's dictum to agree with your
1305
01:21:53.239 --> 01:21:54.319
adversary quickly.
1306
01:21:55.760 --> 01:22:00.399
Well yeah, yeah, I mean well, I what I like
1307
01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:05.079
to see was imaginative strategies in Ireland to use the
1308
01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:09.720
legal legal system to present arguments. Because they're not being
1309
01:22:09.720 --> 01:22:12.600
presented to the courts, you do not know in a
1310
01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:16.159
given circumstance. For example, I used to see Raymond Crotty
1311
01:22:16.239 --> 01:22:19.439
going around double around Trinity College when I was there,
1312
01:22:19.479 --> 01:22:21.159
and he was the one that brought the case against
1313
01:22:22.359 --> 01:22:25.239
EU membership and required that there be a referendum. So
1314
01:22:25.279 --> 01:22:29.399
when presented the court, the Supreme Court has often gone
1315
01:22:29.479 --> 01:22:32.359
with a good argument, but if they're not presented with
1316
01:22:32.439 --> 01:22:34.239
the cases, they can't do it. And then when you
1317
01:22:34.319 --> 01:22:36.920
leave it in as a sideline to some other case,
1318
01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:39.880
when when it's when it's festered through a whole range
1319
01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:45.800
of inappropriate kind of avenues, the result is not going
1320
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:51.279
to be good. So we haven't or people in Ireland
1321
01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:55.439
that don't want the thing to be changed haven't used
1322
01:22:55.479 --> 01:23:00.000
the courts imaginatively. They haven't sought to organize and present case.
1323
01:23:00.439 --> 01:23:03.880
And often when they do present cases, they present them themselves.
1324
01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:08.039
They don't they don't seem to get practice or good
1325
01:23:08.399 --> 01:23:10.439
legal counsel and the things. Then you know that I
1326
01:23:10.520 --> 01:23:13.680
think Mark Twain said the person that represents them themselves
1327
01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:15.600
in court has a fool for their clients, you know.
1328
01:23:15.680 --> 01:23:17.880
So I'm not not saying that about the work Situay,
1329
01:23:18.159 --> 01:23:20.079
which had to be very very careful. I mean, there's
1330
01:23:20.079 --> 01:23:23.399
a way to present an argument these people, like there's
1331
01:23:23.399 --> 01:23:26.439
a there's a Jared Hogan, for example, who's would have
1332
01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:28.239
been my teacher. I knew a lot of the people
1333
01:23:28.359 --> 01:23:30.960
are involved in the things. So I remember doing an
1334
01:23:31.039 --> 01:23:34.159
essay for him and I wasn't happy with the result
1335
01:23:34.199 --> 01:23:36.720
of the mental him and said, you know, we're arguing
1336
01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:39.880
to particular point. And he said, well, if you wanted
1337
01:23:40.680 --> 01:23:42.960
to answer in that way, you would have to had
1338
01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:45.279
a title which said such and such a thing. And
1339
01:23:45.319 --> 01:23:47.800
I understood the way his thinking process. Well, it's very
1340
01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:50.960
very specific and very you know, has to be related
1341
01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:53.399
to the law. He sees it as a system of science.
1342
01:23:53.960 --> 01:23:55.680
You can't come in and say, well, I don't want
1343
01:23:55.680 --> 01:23:58.920
to it's not gonna work. You're buying your head off
1344
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:02.800
a wall. And there's a certain point and which which
1345
01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:09.000
it's ineffective. So a lot of people admire that. But
1346
01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:12.000
even when the Again, if I look back at my
1347
01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:14.960
relations that spent years and years in the ten prison,
1348
01:24:15.039 --> 01:24:18.720
twelve prison, and who were appreciated by the stay afterwards
1349
01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:20.800
for a lot of the things when they were fighting
1350
01:24:20.840 --> 01:24:23.520
against the and the and then also imprisoned by their
1351
01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:28.159
own irishmen during the Civil War. They knew what they
1352
01:24:28.199 --> 01:24:31.159
were doing and they knew the consequences of the things,
1353
01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:36.439
so they weren't going to to get anywhere by you know,
1354
01:24:36.520 --> 01:24:40.880
standing up in the in the you know. So I
1355
01:24:40.920 --> 01:24:43.239
think we have to be or people have to be wiser.
1356
01:24:43.399 --> 01:24:46.399
And it's a pragmatic things, as my view is, and
1357
01:24:46.439 --> 01:24:48.760
a lot of things. What are the consequences of this?
1358
01:24:49.359 --> 01:24:53.319
And I don't see great consequences unless some political movements
1359
01:24:53.319 --> 01:24:55.920
say we feel sorry for this person and this is
1360
01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:59.760
going to galvanize in some way. But even then, if
1361
01:24:59.760 --> 01:25:03.319
you have political movement has to be targeted, strategic, tactical,
1362
01:25:03.479 --> 01:25:07.119
considered organized. It can't be just a big blob of
1363
01:25:07.199 --> 01:25:10.079
self righteousness, you know. So I feel and I do
1364
01:25:10.159 --> 01:25:13.279
feel sorry for the family, and I do see the
1365
01:25:13.279 --> 01:25:16.840
the elements to it. But and I did hear them
1366
01:25:16.920 --> 01:25:20.680
talking about what's going on in the hospitals and all that.
1367
01:25:20.760 --> 01:25:27.279
But even then, you do have to present arguments coherently, effectively, strategically,
1368
01:25:27.359 --> 01:25:30.760
tactically addressing things, addressing in a way that's appropriate.
1369
01:25:31.199 --> 01:25:33.760
That's what I'm saying that I'm just curious.
1370
01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:35.560
I want to leave you at this as well. Just
1371
01:25:35.800 --> 01:25:38.880
if I may ask you, James, you know you had
1372
01:25:38.920 --> 01:25:41.880
a successful career. You were a barrister. You know, you
1373
01:25:42.000 --> 01:25:47.319
worked in you worked in some some pretty high profile jobs,
1374
01:25:47.960 --> 01:25:50.600
and you turned your back on that. You you decided
1375
01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:53.720
to become You decided to become an artist. As far
1376
01:25:53.760 --> 01:25:57.399
as as far as I'm aware, what what made you like? Well,
1377
01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:00.239
what was the what was the compulsion to do with that?
1378
01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:03.159
What do you think was? What was what took place
1379
01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:05.560
within you as a as a person, as an artist,
1380
01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:08.600
what what made you take those decisions?
1381
01:26:08.800 --> 01:26:12.359
Yeah, And just to clarify, when I qualified as a barrister,
1382
01:26:13.119 --> 01:26:15.840
I was considering going to practice in the usual way,
1383
01:26:15.880 --> 01:26:18.640
and then then I went on the study, so I
1384
01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:22.720
ended up in as a lecturer, senior lecturer, visiting professor
1385
01:26:23.319 --> 01:26:27.880
and using the barrister qualifications in an international organizations or
1386
01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:31.920
contracts on that so as opposed to doing the traditional practice.
1387
01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:36.600
Although I was I qualified there and then I was
1388
01:26:37.039 --> 01:26:39.760
so at the end of the career, I was I
1389
01:26:39.800 --> 01:26:45.079
was doing well in that in that domain, and I
1390
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:48.920
was talking in the context of a lot of international
1391
01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:52.600
principles and international interest. And then the Iraq War happened,
1392
01:26:54.439 --> 01:26:57.119
and that showed that all of those legal principles were
1393
01:26:57.760 --> 01:26:59.880
all the things that they told us about international law
1394
01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:05.039
not true, because power was the determinate thing. And at
1395
01:27:05.039 --> 01:27:09.840
the same time, the universities were changing because what a
1396
01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:13.720
lot of people don't understand is that the universities have
1397
01:27:13.760 --> 01:27:16.560
been heavily influenced by the military industrial complex. And I
1398
01:27:16.560 --> 01:27:20.079
mean the specific studies of this in America for example,
1399
01:27:20.079 --> 01:27:24.079
about how the technology overhead projectors, all the technology comes
1400
01:27:24.079 --> 01:27:27.359
from the military into the complex into education and even
1401
01:27:27.399 --> 01:27:29.840
the way it's doing the computers what you know. So
1402
01:27:30.560 --> 01:27:32.840
it was getting a lot more structured, a lot more
1403
01:27:32.880 --> 01:27:37.039
confined to the to the fact, to the context where
1404
01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:38.760
it's become more straight jacketed it. So there was a
1405
01:27:38.800 --> 01:27:43.920
number of things, and the critical thing was we decided
1406
01:27:43.960 --> 01:27:48.720
to have at the same time decided to have a family.
1407
01:27:49.760 --> 01:27:51.800
And I said, I'm not going to stay in this
1408
01:27:52.199 --> 01:27:54.359
context when I when I have a family, because the
1409
01:27:54.359 --> 01:27:58.840
priorities are different. And my wife's career was going good,
1410
01:27:58.880 --> 01:28:03.439
so were said, and I said, okay, I look after
1411
01:28:03.479 --> 01:28:08.199
the children. The start and paint and write and see
1412
01:28:08.199 --> 01:28:12.319
what happens with that, you know. So it was a
1413
01:28:12.359 --> 01:28:16.359
rejection of what was happening in the United Kingdom at
1414
01:28:16.439 --> 01:28:24.720
the time of the Iraq War and the because that demonstrated, demonstrated,
1415
01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:27.199
for example, that people that would have been prosecuted for
1416
01:28:27.239 --> 01:28:31.640
crimes of aggression under the Nuremberg Trial could do the
1417
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:35.079
thing and walk the streets free and leading the millions
1418
01:28:35.079 --> 01:28:37.920
of death, and nobody was bothered by it. And that
1419
01:28:38.119 --> 01:28:43.840
was really concerning to me. So it undermined my belief
1420
01:28:44.079 --> 01:28:49.560
in the Indian the legal systems, including in the you know,
1421
01:28:49.600 --> 01:28:52.239
the Irish legal theories, the people that were making all
1422
01:28:52.239 --> 01:28:56.359
these claims about the nature of international protection, et cetera.
1423
01:28:57.760 --> 01:29:02.199
And I do believe that that that that small kids
1424
01:29:02.239 --> 01:29:07.600
need a parent, you know. Uh, there's a strong movement,
1425
01:29:08.399 --> 01:29:14.640
there's a strong movement now to force babies into the
1426
01:29:14.960 --> 01:29:18.000
state system, you know, into the crash system. I mean,
1427
01:29:18.319 --> 01:29:21.800
there's a there's very there's very admirable crash systems here.
1428
01:29:21.840 --> 01:29:25.039
You know that they're very, very subsidized. I know we
1429
01:29:25.119 --> 01:29:31.720
never did that, and I had that belief. So that
1430
01:29:31.920 --> 01:29:35.600
was important for me in relation to that, and in
1431
01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:38.079
the context I got space out of that. I mean
1432
01:29:38.199 --> 01:29:41.720
it was a great liberation. Although your stat is diminished,
1433
01:29:42.079 --> 01:29:44.640
I could all of all the connections there was. People
1434
01:29:44.680 --> 01:29:46.479
asked me to say, no, I have a have a
1435
01:29:46.560 --> 01:29:49.079
nice contract of Mauritius or in the Caribbean. Do you
1436
01:29:49.079 --> 01:29:51.560
want to get involved in the thing, And I was saying, no,
1437
01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:54.279
I'm not not finished with with with the thing. Even
1438
01:29:54.399 --> 01:29:57.760
at like at the end of the career, you know,
1439
01:29:57.800 --> 01:29:59.960
you'd be getting asked to talk in a particular play
1440
01:30:00.039 --> 01:30:02.439
East and the fly over and the five star hotel,
1441
01:30:02.520 --> 01:30:04.439
et cetera. So it was it was going ground on that.
1442
01:30:06.199 --> 01:30:09.560
But uh, the I.
1443
01:30:09.520 --> 01:30:12.600
Said no, I'm I'm I'm doing my own stuff, and
1444
01:30:12.640 --> 01:30:14.920
I really cut off the connections. I had very good
1445
01:30:14.960 --> 01:30:18.159
connections in China and they've been over there. I've been
1446
01:30:18.319 --> 01:30:22.520
over there a couple of times, did lectures to the
1447
01:30:22.640 --> 01:30:27.800
High Court of Beijing, Chinese Academy of Social science. So
1448
01:30:27.800 --> 01:30:30.159
so I had, but I was I was finished with
1449
01:30:30.159 --> 01:30:31.800
the whole thing, and I said, well, I'm gonna I'm
1450
01:30:31.800 --> 01:30:34.920
gonna start again. And in that contact, so I did
1451
01:30:34.920 --> 01:30:38.520
a painting, and into that context it began to emerge
1452
01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:41.880
the mystical stuff which led to the writing. And I
1453
01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:46.199
began to focus on on the important were for me
1454
01:30:46.199 --> 01:30:50.079
are the important things, and then understanding about how critical
1455
01:30:50.439 --> 01:30:54.279
it is about their spiritual consciousness and how that's the
1456
01:30:54.279 --> 01:30:58.760
determining factor in everything. So if you're so to link
1457
01:30:58.760 --> 01:31:02.439
it into Trotsky, besides, as a boy, he's an atheist
1458
01:31:03.399 --> 01:31:07.439
in in his before he's killed with a nice picking
1459
01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:11.239
or a nice axe in Mexico City, assassinated by one
1460
01:31:11.279 --> 01:31:14.880
of Stalin's agents, he writes a political testament a few
1461
01:31:14.920 --> 01:31:18.199
months beforehand, and he says, you know, I'm a revolutionary
1462
01:31:18.239 --> 01:31:22.560
of Bolshevik, and but I'm a last thing he said
1463
01:31:22.720 --> 01:31:25.880
was I'm an irreconcilable atheist. So the start of his
1464
01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:29.039
journey and the end of his journey was about about
1465
01:31:29.079 --> 01:31:29.760
his atheism.
1466
01:31:29.800 --> 01:31:30.399
It's critical.
1467
01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:36.000
So what I'm saying, what I'm doing about is I'm
1468
01:31:37.079 --> 01:31:41.159
focusing on making that argument about the significance of spiritual conscience,
1469
01:31:41.239 --> 01:31:44.840
as shown as the The opposite is shown in the
1470
01:31:44.920 --> 01:31:47.920
Life of Trotsky. I'm going further in this one. I'm
1471
01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:52.720
saying I think the Catholic Church is uh. His philosophy
1472
01:31:53.800 --> 01:31:58.479
is the only one that will deal with the AI millennium. Now,
1473
01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:01.720
that's that's not to say that the Catholic Church is perfect,
1474
01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:06.439
and in fact, in many senses the anti christ movements
1475
01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:11.119
will come into these organizations, like the entry Ism for example,
1476
01:32:11.600 --> 01:32:14.239
we will be dealing with people in the church who
1477
01:32:14.319 --> 01:32:18.520
are not right. In that context, although the allegations that
1478
01:32:18.600 --> 01:32:22.479
I hear from people like we've gone into the things
1479
01:32:22.880 --> 01:32:25.239
about what the church is doing are not are unfound
1480
01:32:25.319 --> 01:32:30.039
that we're looking at at the records, and certainly there
1481
01:32:30.039 --> 01:32:33.880
are individuals who have come into the church and doing things.
1482
01:32:34.039 --> 01:32:38.720
That's that's there. The most important bit of the New
1483
01:32:38.800 --> 01:32:41.840
Testament that explains it to me to think about this
1484
01:32:42.640 --> 01:32:46.079
is Matthew thirty and when when he's talking about the
1485
01:32:46.159 --> 01:32:50.359
parable of the weeds and the wheat or the in
1486
01:32:50.479 --> 01:32:52.560
the in the New a rhymes it's the cockles and
1487
01:32:52.640 --> 01:32:56.439
the wheat, or the tears and the wheat. So and
1488
01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:59.880
Jesus says, there was a man that had a feel
1489
01:33:00.840 --> 01:33:03.680
and he sold his wheat, and then someone came at
1490
01:33:03.800 --> 01:33:08.479
night and sewed cockles or the tears or it's like
1491
01:33:08.520 --> 01:33:13.319
a wild rice in it now. And then they come
1492
01:33:13.399 --> 01:33:15.880
to pick it up and they find that or the
1493
01:33:15.960 --> 01:33:19.840
servants find that these tears or weeds in the wheat,
1494
01:33:19.880 --> 01:33:22.520
and they say, shall we pick them up? And the
1495
01:33:22.680 --> 01:33:26.359
master says, no, We'll wait till the end, and then
1496
01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:29.079
we'll separate them, because if we pull them up now,
1497
01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:31.399
we'll pull up the good stuff as well.
1498
01:33:31.840 --> 01:33:32.319
So we wait.
1499
01:33:32.399 --> 01:33:33.800
At the end, we pull them up, and we'll have
1500
01:33:33.920 --> 01:33:36.960
the weeds there and we'll burn them and we'll the
1501
01:33:37.039 --> 01:33:39.119
other ones will go into the barn. So that's the analogy.
1502
01:33:40.000 --> 01:33:42.960
And he's asked to explain this kind of unusually, I
1503
01:33:43.079 --> 01:33:45.479
think by the They said, what do you mean by that?
1504
01:33:46.079 --> 01:33:50.199
And he does explain it, and he says, the person
1505
01:33:50.239 --> 01:33:54.359
who sows at night the weeds is the devil. And
1506
01:33:55.000 --> 01:33:58.720
in the end I will separate the good and the bad,
1507
01:33:59.760 --> 01:34:03.039
but it can't be done now. And the analogy is
1508
01:34:03.119 --> 01:34:07.680
also a useful description of the strategies used by intelligence
1509
01:34:07.760 --> 01:34:14.439
services by trotskyists, by communist by right wing activists. Is
1510
01:34:14.520 --> 01:34:16.840
to insert themselves in an organization so you don't know
1511
01:34:16.920 --> 01:34:20.640
the good or bad. So by definition, the Catholic Church
1512
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:22.520
will have a lot of people in it whose job
1513
01:34:22.760 --> 01:34:27.319
is to destroy it. So the analogy applies even on
1514
01:34:27.439 --> 01:34:29.520
that level in relation to plity. But you're not going
1515
01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:30.800
to be able to know. You're not going to be
1516
01:34:30.840 --> 01:34:33.960
able to do so, and there's a danger in pulling
1517
01:34:34.039 --> 01:34:37.680
things out too soon. Now here's another dimension that's very
1518
01:34:37.680 --> 01:34:45.399
important to emphasize in this is the Marian dimension. So Trotsky, well,
1519
01:34:45.439 --> 01:34:48.359
if we go back to October thirteenth, nineteen seventeen, and
1520
01:34:48.479 --> 01:34:54.119
this is the miracle of Fatima, and it's I've studied
1521
01:34:54.479 --> 01:34:58.920
a lot about the Miracle of Fatima, and I'm certain
1522
01:34:59.039 --> 01:35:03.239
that it happened. I'm certain about the phenomenon, and the
1523
01:35:03.760 --> 01:35:07.119
evidence is there. The evidence is overwhelming about this series
1524
01:35:07.520 --> 01:35:14.319
of apparitions about the miracle of the sun. People saw that,
1525
01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:17.600
that's right, yeah, yeah, and skeptics et cetera. You know,
1526
01:35:17.720 --> 01:35:20.680
so it's very very difficult to argue against although people said, well,
1527
01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:22.760
let's say, UFO or I don't believe that, or they
1528
01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:24.760
don't look at the evidence, which is a classic thing
1529
01:35:24.840 --> 01:35:28.880
that they do. So in that, according to evidence which
1530
01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:32.359
began to come out in twenty seven whenever that we
1531
01:35:32.520 --> 01:35:36.640
see the statement from Sister Lucia, which I believe because
1532
01:35:36.680 --> 01:35:39.520
when she was talking at the time, she was talking
1533
01:35:39.640 --> 01:35:41.960
back and there was an one which was writing down
1534
01:35:42.119 --> 01:35:44.439
and there, so there's there's compared the records that you
1535
01:35:44.520 --> 01:35:47.560
can judge. But in relation to this thing about Russia,
1536
01:35:48.359 --> 01:35:53.560
she said that Russia needed to be dedicated to work
1537
01:35:54.439 --> 01:35:59.079
a macular heart and if it wasn't, her errors would
1538
01:35:59.159 --> 01:36:02.800
be spread around the world. So this is the core
1539
01:36:03.800 --> 01:36:07.840
object of this phenomenon. Okay, that Russia would spread her
1540
01:36:07.960 --> 01:36:14.880
errors around the world. That apparition occurred needed to the
1541
01:36:14.960 --> 01:36:18.720
death on the day really that Trotsky start giving out
1542
01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:21.840
weapons in Saint Petersburg right on the day if you
1543
01:36:21.920 --> 01:36:25.199
look back at it, and the revolution was successful twenty
1544
01:36:25.279 --> 01:36:28.079
five days after. So if someone is telling me there's
1545
01:36:28.119 --> 01:36:32.840
no connection between them, it's crazy. So what we have
1546
01:36:33.119 --> 01:36:39.399
is a supernatural intervention which was evidenced and is accepted
1547
01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:41.880
by most people that are willing to look at evidence,
1548
01:36:42.920 --> 01:36:45.920
which involves a description of what is going to happen
1549
01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:51.399
in Russia, which parallels perfectly what was happening in Russia,
1550
01:36:52.079 --> 01:36:55.000
which claims that Russia would spread her errors to the world.
1551
01:36:55.760 --> 01:36:58.560
Who spread the errors to the world. Who is it
1552
01:36:58.640 --> 01:37:01.840
that spread the errors? But clearly the one that didn't
1553
01:37:01.880 --> 01:37:06.560
want social communism in one country, it was Trotsky, who
1554
01:37:06.680 --> 01:37:10.840
in nineteen nineteen was already saying we want world revolution.
1555
01:37:11.279 --> 01:37:13.199
It was so I believe that.
1556
01:37:13.319 --> 01:37:17.520
Leon Trotsky was what the Fatima apparition really pointed to.
1557
01:37:18.159 --> 01:37:21.560
If you look at it, wasn't there another where she
1558
01:37:21.640 --> 01:37:22.880
appeared with the hammer and the.
1559
01:37:25.239 --> 01:37:28.199
Yeah, that goes back to an earlier in Las Alette.
1560
01:37:28.279 --> 01:37:32.439
She did have a broach which was and the hammer
1561
01:37:33.560 --> 01:37:37.039
was on so it was seen to be and another
1562
01:37:37.119 --> 01:37:41.159
implement of players I think it was. But then there
1563
01:37:41.199 --> 01:37:43.800
were there were direct reference to the Arma Christie and
1564
01:37:44.159 --> 01:37:46.800
so this this goes back to. It goes back to
1565
01:37:46.920 --> 01:37:50.199
a number of things and a number of a number
1566
01:37:50.239 --> 01:37:54.560
of operations. But there's another connection. So Trotsky is in
1567
01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:58.399
charge of the the Red Army and he builds it
1568
01:37:58.520 --> 01:38:02.439
up into a major thing, so major organizational achievement, despite
1569
01:38:02.439 --> 01:38:04.239
the fact as loads of other people involved in but
1570
01:38:04.399 --> 01:38:09.680
he was a figurehead on that. And there's war in Ukraine,
1571
01:38:10.079 --> 01:38:17.079
so the Poles move into Ukraine to take back some
1572
01:38:17.239 --> 01:38:22.279
of their historic land. So the war involved a number
1573
01:38:22.279 --> 01:38:28.279
of different parties. The Bolsheviks invade Poland, so we had
1574
01:38:28.359 --> 01:38:34.640
the Polish the Polish Russian War from two years before
1575
01:38:34.800 --> 01:38:41.840
nineteen twenty. So the Red Army are being very very successful.
1576
01:38:42.039 --> 01:38:42.159
Now.
1577
01:38:42.239 --> 01:38:45.560
If they take Poland, they would have continued into Germany.
1578
01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:48.279
They would have continued at that stage and they would
1579
01:38:48.279 --> 01:38:50.640
have been internal and it would have been they would
1580
01:38:50.640 --> 01:38:54.760
have taken Europe as more than they had done later.
1581
01:38:55.880 --> 01:38:59.720
So they're fighting the Polish Army. The Polish Army are
1582
01:38:59.760 --> 01:39:04.800
being eaten. They're back to Warsaw. In the weeks coming
1583
01:39:04.920 --> 01:39:08.640
up to the Battle of wars around Warsaw, there was
1584
01:39:08.680 --> 01:39:13.880
a massive prayer campaign focused on the Virgin Mary. You know,
1585
01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:17.319
this was this is the thing the polls have done consistently.
1586
01:39:17.680 --> 01:39:20.640
They did it in relation to the overtrow of communism.
1587
01:39:20.720 --> 01:39:24.479
Although people like Christopher Hitchins won't give them the credit
1588
01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:27.039
for that. The Church was critical and they dedicated the
1589
01:39:27.079 --> 01:39:31.119
state towards the Virgin Mary. So when they're in the
1590
01:39:31.199 --> 01:39:33.399
Battle of the Vistula, you had a phenomenon which is
1591
01:39:33.479 --> 01:39:37.439
called the Miracle of the Vistula where according to reports,
1592
01:39:38.279 --> 01:39:42.640
the Russians saw the Virgin Mary in the sky and
1593
01:39:42.760 --> 01:39:45.600
they didn't press home their advantage. Now there's a lot
1594
01:39:45.680 --> 01:39:53.279
of different versions of this, but whatever happened, they failed,
1595
01:39:53.520 --> 01:39:57.720
and that the polls changed the situation after that, and
1596
01:39:57.800 --> 01:39:59.800
there's a lot of evidence of an intervention. So we
1597
01:39:59.880 --> 01:40:02.560
have remarkable Now people say, well, I don't believe in
1598
01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:04.680
that as well, that's fair enough, look at the evidence.
1599
01:40:05.279 --> 01:40:09.600
But in a remarkable correspondence there from nineteen seventy and
1600
01:40:09.680 --> 01:40:13.840
even to the protection of Poland, where we have Trotsky
1601
01:40:14.760 --> 01:40:20.640
involved as the opposing force and a supernatural intervention, which
1602
01:40:20.760 --> 01:40:24.880
to me kind of points the finger at some way,
1603
01:40:25.359 --> 01:40:29.279
in two senses, at the significance of Trotsky as the
1604
01:40:29.359 --> 01:40:34.279
international force, which is also consistent with Churchill's analysis. He
1605
01:40:34.359 --> 01:40:38.079
wasn't that concerned about Stalin in the same way he was,
1606
01:40:38.319 --> 01:40:40.520
and he could do business with him. But Trotsky was
1607
01:40:40.560 --> 01:40:42.880
a different kettle of fish, and he knew that, and
1608
01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:45.920
he knew that they would destroy the West if he
1609
01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:51.600
had the options. And there is another it's a report
1610
01:40:51.680 --> 01:40:54.039
anyway from one of the operations in the eighties in
1611
01:40:54.680 --> 01:41:00.439
the Ukraine, and again it's not as certain some of
1612
01:41:00.479 --> 01:41:03.439
the others in some ways, but according to the reports
1613
01:41:03.600 --> 01:41:06.359
of the operation of the Virgin mary In, I think
1614
01:41:06.399 --> 01:41:11.880
eighty seven in Ukraine. She said that Russia has spread
1615
01:41:11.960 --> 01:41:14.840
her errors or words to this effect. Russia has spread
1616
01:41:14.840 --> 01:41:18.039
her errors, and the West is evil as well, but
1617
01:41:18.159 --> 01:41:21.680
they don't realize that they're evil. And I thought that
1618
01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:27.000
was a brilliant description of the state of the West. Now,
1619
01:41:27.920 --> 01:41:32.439
whether it's we can absolutely prove that or not. Even
1620
01:41:32.439 --> 01:41:35.520
if it's not true, all of those things, and certainly
1621
01:41:35.560 --> 01:41:43.720
Fatima is true, all of those things demonstrate a consistent story,
1622
01:41:44.279 --> 01:41:49.479
and it goes back before that of supernatural opposition to
1623
01:41:49.920 --> 01:41:56.640
atheistic materialism. And Marx was heavily influenced, for example, by
1624
01:41:58.800 --> 01:42:03.760
the seamless armland relic. The seamless garment relic brought millions
1625
01:42:03.800 --> 01:42:06.600
of people to see it when it was shown in
1626
01:42:06.800 --> 01:42:11.199
the mid eighteen forties. And this seems to have affected
1627
01:42:12.039 --> 01:42:15.159
Karl Marx because he was born in tre Air, where
1628
01:42:15.199 --> 01:42:18.880
the seamless garmlent is, the seamless garment being what the
1629
01:42:19.680 --> 01:42:24.239
Roman soldiers were having a lottery over. So we have
1630
01:42:24.359 --> 01:42:29.920
this remarkable phenomenon that the unholy and the holy are
1631
01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:32.960
always close and parallel to each other, which is why
1632
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:35.279
you're going to get as well unholiness in the church.
1633
01:42:35.359 --> 01:42:38.880
But that what we can't do is throw the baby
1634
01:42:38.960 --> 01:42:41.039
out of the bad water, because that's the triumph of
1635
01:42:41.239 --> 01:42:44.600
the of the unholy. And in fact, on some of
1636
01:42:44.640 --> 01:42:48.039
the operations they talk about this division Akita for example,
1637
01:42:48.439 --> 01:42:51.479
and they talk about this division and as even the
1638
01:42:51.560 --> 01:42:55.119
implication that we will have an apostasy in the church
1639
01:42:55.119 --> 01:42:57.199
at the top, meaning that they were rejected, and that
1640
01:42:57.279 --> 01:43:00.560
could happen, but it doesn't undermine a according to the
1641
01:43:00.720 --> 01:43:05.439
argument that you know that these are the kings of
1642
01:43:05.520 --> 01:43:08.359
the keys of the kingdom, and the gates of hell
1643
01:43:08.399 --> 01:43:12.199
won't prevail against them, that whatever is left, whatever remnant,
1644
01:43:12.279 --> 01:43:18.439
remains consistent with the lineage, is what's meant meant to happen. So,
1645
01:43:18.960 --> 01:43:22.680
but there's a remarkable correspondence between them. The literature on
1646
01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:27.439
Fatima is voluminous, Uh. The literature on the Russian Revolution
1647
01:43:27.680 --> 01:43:32.039
is voluminous, but the connection is noted. But the specific
1648
01:43:32.079 --> 01:43:35.079
connection with Trotsky, I don't really see that, And I
1649
01:43:35.239 --> 01:43:39.439
think that's what what what the message was was really
1650
01:43:39.840 --> 01:43:44.039
about his power, which is testament. Of course he's not
1651
01:43:44.199 --> 01:43:46.399
mentioned specifically, that's not what the business of it. But
1652
01:43:46.479 --> 01:43:49.920
if I interpret the context, you would have to say
1653
01:43:50.000 --> 01:43:54.319
he's a prime candidate and They don't focus on the
1654
01:43:54.399 --> 01:43:57.119
spread er. How does she spread er? How does Russia's spreader?
1655
01:43:57.199 --> 01:44:02.640
Errors and Trotsky the air has been atheistic, materialism, communism,
1656
01:44:02.680 --> 01:44:09.640
anti anti Christianity. Trotsky is in my view, classic exponent
1657
01:44:09.720 --> 01:44:10.960
and the chief exponent of that.
1658
01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:15.239
Just briefly, just gone back to Karen Marx. Did you
1659
01:44:15.319 --> 01:44:17.680
ever hear that he used to write poems to Satan?
1660
01:44:18.680 --> 01:44:18.880
Yeah?
1661
01:44:18.920 --> 01:44:19.119
He did.
1662
01:44:19.199 --> 01:44:21.520
There is a this went on.
1663
01:44:22.840 --> 01:44:27.560
There is a evidence that he did write poetry and
1664
01:44:27.840 --> 01:44:29.800
it was of that nature, and and and there is
1665
01:44:29.800 --> 01:44:34.279
a book written about that. And this is an interesting comparison.
1666
01:44:35.359 --> 01:44:38.920
Trotsky was not the same as Marx. Trotsky. There's no
1667
01:44:39.079 --> 01:44:42.479
evidence that Trotsky believed in anything spiritual.
1668
01:44:42.880 --> 01:44:43.279
He didn't.
1669
01:44:43.319 --> 01:44:47.319
He just he believed in something physical. So he's he's
1670
01:44:47.399 --> 01:44:50.680
an atomist that believes that the world is all about
1671
01:44:50.720 --> 01:44:53.560
small little things and the human humans or accidents and
1672
01:44:53.640 --> 01:44:56.960
there and therefore he comes to the idea that where
1673
01:44:57.239 --> 01:44:58.920
we need to be fixed and developed and in the
1674
01:44:58.960 --> 01:45:03.000
future trans humanism or something like that. It sounds very hugenerous.
1675
01:45:03.039 --> 01:45:05.439
Is transhumanism? This is in his writings. We love at
1676
01:45:05.560 --> 01:45:09.560
the Trotsky Internet archive or whatever. It's very consistent with
1677
01:45:09.640 --> 01:45:13.680
the British imperial sense of Huxley's.
1678
01:45:13.399 --> 01:45:14.000
Or whatever they that.
1679
01:45:14.920 --> 01:45:18.239
So he genuinely didn't believe in the spiritual world, in
1680
01:45:18.359 --> 01:45:21.960
fairness to him, but Karl Marx did. So Karl Marx
1681
01:45:22.039 --> 01:45:24.399
is different. He's the other type. He's a Promethean so,
1682
01:45:25.720 --> 01:45:29.439
and he's very dedicated towards that kind of Promethean idea
1683
01:45:29.560 --> 01:45:32.760
steal fire from the heavens. And the Promethean is defined
1684
01:45:32.920 --> 01:45:36.680
by their opposition to the gods that are there, so
1685
01:45:37.039 --> 01:45:41.279
they're saying, we're going to take over. Benjamin Franklin, another revolutionary,
1686
01:45:41.319 --> 01:45:43.840
he was called a modern prometheus fire from the heavens.
1687
01:45:43.920 --> 01:45:44.439
Electricity.
1688
01:45:44.520 --> 01:45:48.279
Electricity is a critical element in this electrical fire, as
1689
01:45:48.319 --> 01:45:54.560
it was called. The Bolsheviks or Lenin called Bolshevism communism
1690
01:45:54.600 --> 01:45:58.359
plus electrification. Electrification was a critical thing that they engaged in.
1691
01:46:00.079 --> 01:46:03.119
Trotsky called the electrification of the Chateura Borg of Moscow
1692
01:46:03.399 --> 01:46:06.039
a greater miracle than any that was in in the books.
1693
01:46:06.079 --> 01:46:08.600
This is the way he perceived the world. But Marx
1694
01:46:08.640 --> 01:46:12.239
definitely had this belief in the spiritual realm, So he
1695
01:46:12.359 --> 01:46:16.640
was definitely rejecting God as we know it for something else.
1696
01:46:17.079 --> 01:46:19.039
So that's something else. It's difficult to make out, but
1697
01:46:19.760 --> 01:46:24.359
certainly he seemed to be that that seamless Garmlentt and
1698
01:46:24.520 --> 01:46:28.039
the and the reverence with that relic seemed to have
1699
01:46:28.119 --> 01:46:30.119
an effect on him. My view, there seems to be
1700
01:46:30.279 --> 01:46:36.239
some correspondence where which which explains this massive anti religiousness
1701
01:46:36.800 --> 01:46:40.920
which is not necessary in some senses, But he didn't
1702
01:46:40.960 --> 01:46:43.520
believe when he when he when he's when he's citing
1703
01:46:43.600 --> 01:46:49.920
Hegel and when he's citing his historical analysis and historical materialism,
1704
01:46:51.800 --> 01:46:54.800
there there is a sense that he's not being fully
1705
01:46:55.840 --> 01:47:00.279
fully transparent about some other things he believes in, because
1706
01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:03.960
he seems younger havocs in a way that Trotsky never did.
1707
01:47:04.319 --> 01:47:08.119
In fairness, so at least I think Trotsky was more
1708
01:47:08.199 --> 01:47:12.600
intellectually consistent on that, although he was he was also
1709
01:47:12.800 --> 01:47:16.560
very surreptitious and sneaky, but about.
1710
01:47:17.760 --> 01:47:18.279
Tactically.
1711
01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:21.319
But then this is this this ties in perhaps with
1712
01:47:21.439 --> 01:47:24.319
the point where we're making there's a game going on,
1713
01:47:25.039 --> 01:47:28.479
and if the person is going to use better strategies
1714
01:47:28.600 --> 01:47:31.640
and better tactics, they're going to win. So you can
1715
01:47:31.720 --> 01:47:36.359
either align with people who are being strategic and tactical,
1716
01:47:36.640 --> 01:47:38.399
where you can abolish all that and let the people
1717
01:47:38.439 --> 01:47:42.000
with the superior tactics and strategies win. I don't want
1718
01:47:42.520 --> 01:47:46.119
to lose Well, you're already talking about losing the country.
1719
01:47:47.359 --> 01:47:50.159
Various countries in Europe, and a lot of them are
1720
01:47:50.279 --> 01:47:53.680
will be subject to two potential laws to be like,
1721
01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:59.680
you're seriously talking about losing the Catholic Church, remember HG.
1722
01:47:59.800 --> 01:48:02.720
Well and not wanted to bomb the Vatican for example.
1723
01:48:03.159 --> 01:48:06.560
A New World Order, they're very hostile to it. So
1724
01:48:07.399 --> 01:48:11.760
there's all those things. But you're at risk of losing
1725
01:48:11.800 --> 01:48:14.119
your soul if you believe in the eternal So I do,
1726
01:48:14.960 --> 01:48:17.680
and I'm not succumbing or selling me so. And I
1727
01:48:17.760 --> 01:48:19.600
think that a lot of these guys involved in the
1728
01:48:19.720 --> 01:48:22.520
Judas Kiss and all the things in an international business
1729
01:48:23.279 --> 01:48:27.640
have either agreed to give up their soul in their
1730
01:48:27.680 --> 01:48:32.560
own minds and in a Faustian kind of pact, and
1731
01:48:32.720 --> 01:48:35.439
there will take the consequence. There's another reason why you
1732
01:48:35.560 --> 01:48:38.319
might want to be a transhumanist and live a bit longer,
1733
01:48:38.359 --> 01:48:40.640
because you don't want to be taking the consequences that
1734
01:48:40.680 --> 01:48:44.079
you're going to get if you're being selling out humans
1735
01:48:44.119 --> 01:48:47.800
and killing other humans are doing whatever you know. So, yeah,
1736
01:48:47.880 --> 01:48:50.760
he was definitly there was a dimension to him there
1737
01:48:50.880 --> 01:48:54.600
early on certainty that informed them, and Prometheus is the
1738
01:48:55.039 --> 01:49:00.359
image that was taken. And promethea Prometheus is often a
1739
01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:04.720
kind of safer version of Satan. He fulfills the same
1740
01:49:04.880 --> 01:49:07.720
role in many senses, a rebel against God. And this
1741
01:49:07.920 --> 01:49:10.600
is the thing I'm talking about, the singular So the
1742
01:49:10.720 --> 01:49:14.680
singular rebellion, you can trace it back to King David,
1743
01:49:14.840 --> 01:49:17.319
but you can also trace it back to the story,
1744
01:49:18.079 --> 01:49:21.279
myth or fact of the rebellion of Satan against God.
1745
01:49:21.800 --> 01:49:24.119
I'm not willing to have you in charge. And this
1746
01:49:24.319 --> 01:49:27.560
is right through the whole pros and in Catholic terms,
1747
01:49:27.880 --> 01:49:30.680
a lot of the revolutionary stuff would be the same,
1748
01:49:31.279 --> 01:49:33.720
would be in the same trajectory. And I say this
1749
01:49:33.840 --> 01:49:38.279
singular revolution comes to a singular point, which is the singularity.
1750
01:49:39.039 --> 01:49:42.640
That's the subjective left and right, and the singularity is
1751
01:49:42.680 --> 01:49:44.520
the end of the human race as we know, when
1752
01:49:45.359 --> 01:49:49.680
they become controlled by technology and merge with technology. So
1753
01:49:49.800 --> 01:49:53.560
that's the objective is to create a totally man made world,
1754
01:49:54.000 --> 01:49:57.000
to bring it into the realm of the of the devil,
1755
01:49:57.279 --> 01:50:00.239
are a man whatever like the Satan, where God is
1756
01:50:00.319 --> 01:50:03.840
cut out of the situation and you can succumb to that,
1757
01:50:04.039 --> 01:50:06.119
you can agree to that, you can participate in that,
1758
01:50:06.720 --> 01:50:10.119
but our opportunity to escape from that will become less
1759
01:50:10.159 --> 01:50:14.119
and less. So that's that's what the that's how it
1760
01:50:14.199 --> 01:50:14.720
goes together.
1761
01:50:14.840 --> 01:50:18.239
In so, James, you've been very generous with your time.
1762
01:50:18.279 --> 01:50:20.520
If I'm interested, I'm just gonna ask you one last question,
1763
01:50:20.680 --> 01:50:24.119
and that is about Jesus. Right, So what like why Jesus?
1764
01:50:24.159 --> 01:50:27.600
Why not Mohammads? Why not? But what why? Why is
1765
01:50:27.760 --> 01:50:33.000
Jesus the answer to this problem? How like if somebody
1766
01:50:33.079 --> 01:50:37.560
is looking for salvation from this system, to escape this
1767
01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:43.319
dystopian future that's ahead of us, how can Jesus offer
1768
01:50:44.279 --> 01:50:46.560
us that that chance in your opinion.
1769
01:50:47.199 --> 01:50:50.279
To say, in one case, in in case, people say, well,
1770
01:50:50.279 --> 01:50:54.720
you're prejudiced because of your background, even though I went
1771
01:50:54.760 --> 01:50:56.960
away from it and came back to it like a
1772
01:50:57.079 --> 01:51:01.520
prodigal sone in some senses. And it could have been
1773
01:51:01.640 --> 01:51:05.800
that our family was Catholic for fifteen hundred years when
1774
01:51:05.840 --> 01:51:07.399
you think about it, for a lot of families in
1775
01:51:07.439 --> 01:51:11.079
Ireland that went back, and I think there's evidence there,
1776
01:51:11.079 --> 01:51:13.560
you know what I mean. That's the reality of the
1777
01:51:13.760 --> 01:51:17.079
historical thing people are rejecting, which is quite remarkable. So
1778
01:51:17.600 --> 01:51:20.640
you could say, even an honor to my ancestors. There's
1779
01:51:20.720 --> 01:51:24.359
good reason. And I'm not certainly having them described because
1780
01:51:24.359 --> 01:51:28.399
I know they weren't as fools or Charlatans or gun.
1781
01:51:28.239 --> 01:51:29.800
Beans or idiots or whatever.
1782
01:51:30.520 --> 01:51:35.600
Like in Mayo, the Protestants were impressed that the Catholics
1783
01:51:35.640 --> 01:51:37.359
were willing to give up the life and not take
1784
01:51:37.399 --> 01:51:41.000
the soup. It's quite remarkable, you know. But so these
1785
01:51:41.079 --> 01:51:44.800
are are the so you could say, well, but to
1786
01:51:45.720 --> 01:51:50.000
intellectually answer the question, there was good reasons why they
1787
01:51:50.159 --> 01:51:54.359
chose Christianity, and they recognized something superior in the thing.
1788
01:51:54.600 --> 01:51:54.680
Now.
1789
01:51:54.720 --> 01:51:58.479
They they didn't abandon all the pagan stuff that was there,
1790
01:51:58.560 --> 01:52:02.399
which and they weren't forced to. I've talked about that before.
1791
01:52:02.439 --> 01:52:06.560
They were volcanoes around the time Columbia, etc. So this
1792
01:52:06.680 --> 01:52:08.920
idea that they were forced by the Church and are
1793
01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:12.359
in is just not true. And it's false the idea
1794
01:52:12.439 --> 01:52:16.000
that Irish people abandoned some of these practices associated with
1795
01:52:16.800 --> 01:52:19.279
proximity to the land, and that they didn't, and that
1796
01:52:19.479 --> 01:52:22.920
was right up to our lifetime. There was an awareness
1797
01:52:22.960 --> 01:52:24.199
of the other world and that could fit in.
1798
01:52:24.239 --> 01:52:24.960
There was no problem.
1799
01:52:25.039 --> 01:52:27.800
We can see that the Secret Commonwealth in Scotland in
1800
01:52:27.840 --> 01:52:31.439
the sixteen nineties, explaining in the Fairly World and Christianity
1801
01:52:31.479 --> 01:52:34.159
they went together. There was no problem there. So, I mean,
1802
01:52:34.199 --> 01:52:36.880
there's an awful lot of nonsense, neo pagan stuff talked about.
1803
01:52:37.039 --> 01:52:43.760
Well so, but why Christianity. I was focused on this
1804
01:52:44.720 --> 01:52:47.039
what the New World Order people were saying and what
1805
01:52:47.199 --> 01:52:49.199
they were doing, and why they were so hostile to
1806
01:52:49.279 --> 01:52:51.119
religion and the New World Order.
1807
01:52:52.520 --> 01:52:53.319
You know, idea of.
1808
01:52:53.319 --> 01:52:56.560
Abolished the family, abolished the nation state, abolished religion is
1809
01:52:56.640 --> 01:53:01.039
exactly the same as the communist manifesto. And the only
1810
01:53:01.119 --> 01:53:05.199
difference is that they don't want to abolish property yet
1811
01:53:05.600 --> 01:53:10.439
although you know, so they're they're exactly the same. H. G.
1812
01:53:10.560 --> 01:53:14.199
Wells and New World Order. He taught that the Bolsheviks
1813
01:53:15.119 --> 01:53:18.600
went and radical enough, so this is what's coming for us.
1814
01:53:18.640 --> 01:53:20.920
You know, it's going to be much worse than than
1815
01:53:20.960 --> 01:53:26.199
the Bolsheviks. So they were all very hostile. All these
1816
01:53:26.319 --> 01:53:31.840
totalitarian figures were hostile to Christ you know, whether Hitler
1817
01:53:32.079 --> 01:53:36.920
or Stalin or even though he started in Trotsky or
1818
01:53:37.079 --> 01:53:40.680
melt Ton, Uh, and go down, go down the list
1819
01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:46.800
of it. And there's good reason why. Because Christ inspired
1820
01:53:47.119 --> 01:53:51.319
the movements that gave us the good parts of Western civilization,
1821
01:53:51.520 --> 01:53:56.800
of learning and scholarship, of hospitals, of education systems, libraries,
1822
01:53:57.760 --> 01:54:00.760
of looking after the poor, of looking at the traveler,
1823
01:54:01.399 --> 01:54:04.159
looking after the sick that came from the West. The
1824
01:54:04.279 --> 01:54:07.399
hospitals in those scales and in those contexts, in a
1825
01:54:07.479 --> 01:54:13.439
widespread way, came from the Western Christian tradition, including farm
1826
01:54:13.560 --> 01:54:18.600
management and development of things, the distillation, breweries, etc. That
1827
01:54:18.720 --> 01:54:21.720
came from the Christian tradition. Writing in the West. The
1828
01:54:21.760 --> 01:54:26.439
restoration of Latin came from the Christian tradition. So the history,
1829
01:54:27.439 --> 01:54:31.239
the history before the Reformation had a lot of things,
1830
01:54:31.279 --> 01:54:33.800
and I think the Renaissance came from that. It didn't
1831
01:54:34.119 --> 01:54:37.359
come from the Pagans, although it was able to incorporate
1832
01:54:37.880 --> 01:54:40.279
some of the Greek elements, but it came out of
1833
01:54:40.359 --> 01:54:44.840
a clearly Christian ethos. The great Architecture came out of
1834
01:54:44.880 --> 01:54:48.039
a Christian So there's examples of what has gone. And
1835
01:54:48.319 --> 01:54:51.920
the protection of women and the construction of families and
1836
01:54:52.239 --> 01:54:56.279
the control of marriages so you don't marry inappropriately, for example.
1837
01:54:57.199 --> 01:55:02.439
And the protection of rights over time came through that context,
1838
01:55:02.479 --> 01:55:07.319
on the protection of property, etc. So but looking at
1839
01:55:07.359 --> 01:55:13.960
the technological context, the movement towards transhumanism and posthumanism is
1840
01:55:14.119 --> 01:55:16.119
an effort to deconstruct the human.
1841
01:55:16.319 --> 01:55:16.960
That's what it is.
1842
01:55:17.079 --> 01:55:20.760
It's clearly geared towards that. And if you look at
1843
01:55:20.840 --> 01:55:25.760
great critics like Shaquil Lull who wrote The Technological Society,
1844
01:55:25.920 --> 01:55:33.039
or Bernard Charboneau, they realized that even though Lull was
1845
01:55:33.079 --> 01:55:37.920
a Christian anarchist and Bernard Scharboneau and background, but it
1846
01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:42.039
wasn't very religious. They realized that the central motif was
1847
01:55:42.079 --> 01:55:47.800
the incarnation, that the incarnation of Christ was critical now
1848
01:55:48.079 --> 01:55:52.439
theologically and this is important. The idea that Christ, that
1849
01:55:52.600 --> 01:55:58.239
God became man. It's fundamental because what it does is
1850
01:55:58.840 --> 01:56:03.399
it creates an idea of the significance of the human
1851
01:56:04.119 --> 01:56:07.640
body and form, that there is something about this and
1852
01:56:07.760 --> 01:56:10.840
this is a thing that we don't find in the
1853
01:56:10.920 --> 01:56:13.880
same way. You have elements of an avatars in the
1854
01:56:13.920 --> 01:56:15.600
each bit don't find in the same way. So the
1855
01:56:15.680 --> 01:56:21.159
incarnation is critical, and the incarnation involves also evidence of
1856
01:56:21.319 --> 01:56:25.199
who we are in the transfiguration, when Jesus becomes light
1857
01:56:25.479 --> 01:56:31.000
on top of the mountain and the resurrection, and those
1858
01:56:31.399 --> 01:56:35.840
are the antidotes towards the daft ideas by the military
1859
01:56:35.880 --> 01:56:39.960
industrial complex developed in the neo imperial systems, which say
1860
01:56:41.199 --> 01:56:44.479
that you're not special, you're not created by God, you
1861
01:56:44.600 --> 01:56:48.279
have no dignity. Artificial intelligence is more important. You're not
1862
01:56:48.479 --> 01:56:53.920
very good at computation. Humans suck. Humans are you know,
1863
01:56:55.119 --> 01:56:57.720
a species like any others, like apes or whatever like that.
1864
01:56:58.239 --> 01:57:02.359
Humans shouldn't be treated specially worse. Humans are bad. The
1865
01:57:02.439 --> 01:57:05.840
world will be better. We are misanthropic, we are dysentropic.
1866
01:57:06.159 --> 01:57:08.800
We want the world without humans, we want robots, whatever.
1867
01:57:09.000 --> 01:57:12.199
These are the consequences of the view of rejection of
1868
01:57:12.319 --> 01:57:16.359
the Christian view. The all of the major forces which
1869
01:57:16.479 --> 01:57:22.119
want this transhumanist, post humanist world are anti Christian. They're
1870
01:57:22.159 --> 01:57:25.239
not anti Buddhism. They can work with them. They don't
1871
01:57:25.319 --> 01:57:27.800
give you the same result, they don't give you the
1872
01:57:27.880 --> 01:57:31.359
same focus on the humans. If humans are to persist,
1873
01:57:32.359 --> 01:57:38.199
it has to be Christian in fairness to Islam, and
1874
01:57:38.520 --> 01:57:40.760
when I'm talking about movements in Europe, a lot of
1875
01:57:40.840 --> 01:57:46.000
these things are the consequence of our own actions. The
1876
01:57:47.000 --> 01:57:51.319
Islamic theology also supports, not in the same way, but
1877
01:57:51.399 --> 01:57:54.479
it also supports a view of the dignity of the
1878
01:57:54.560 --> 01:57:58.880
individuals and given a choice in the future. I guarantee
1879
01:57:58.880 --> 01:58:02.199
if people will choose is life over over what's on offer,
1880
01:58:02.479 --> 01:58:07.880
they will choose over gang war governance, which which you
1881
01:58:07.960 --> 01:58:10.560
will get in some countries in Europe. That will happen
1882
01:58:11.079 --> 01:58:14.119
as the systems break down. As as as the Christian
1883
01:58:14.199 --> 01:58:18.239
systems break down, you will have like what happened in Mexico,
1884
01:58:19.039 --> 01:58:22.920
which gets emerged from a historic anti Christian movement. You
1885
01:58:22.960 --> 01:58:26.600
will have that, or you will have technocracy. There's only
1886
01:58:26.600 --> 01:58:29.399
a few choices going to be left once you reject
1887
01:58:29.439 --> 01:58:32.800
your Christian thing. And actually Islam won't be won't be
1888
01:58:32.920 --> 01:58:37.359
one of the worst of them because it it has
1889
01:58:37.479 --> 01:58:42.640
some elements, but Christianity is the superior one in my view.
1890
01:58:43.000 --> 01:58:49.479
It's superior because it's theological. Anthropology focuses on the individual.
1891
01:58:49.640 --> 01:58:53.560
It focuses on human life. It protects human life. It
1892
01:58:53.640 --> 01:58:59.239
protects human life from the time of conception. It's against
1893
01:58:59.359 --> 01:59:02.840
you Toda's and its indherent doctrines which is going to
1894
01:59:02.880 --> 01:59:08.119
be forced on us. It's against dehumanization. And if you
1895
01:59:08.239 --> 01:59:14.399
look at the succession of miracles of extraordinary phenomenon well documented,
1896
01:59:14.760 --> 01:59:19.039
whether we go back to Joseph of Coppertino levitating or
1897
01:59:19.119 --> 01:59:23.560
threes of a levitating or we've come up to Padre
1898
01:59:23.760 --> 01:59:30.479
Pio doing his miracles by locating having the stigmata, or
1899
01:59:30.560 --> 01:59:33.840
have we come up to the Marian miracles, whether we
1900
01:59:34.159 --> 01:59:38.880
got a loop to Fatima to Lurds. We have an
1901
01:59:39.039 --> 01:59:46.600
absolutely continuous succession of evidence of a supernatural dimension which
1902
01:59:46.720 --> 01:59:51.600
reinforced the validity of the story, which was also reinforced
1903
01:59:51.640 --> 01:59:54.880
by all of those hundreds of years of people finding
1904
01:59:55.039 --> 01:59:58.520
in it something useful. And what has to be done
1905
01:59:58.640 --> 02:00:04.319
now is that our generation has to extract the meaning
1906
02:00:04.399 --> 02:00:06.680
of it which is relevant to.
1907
02:00:08.239 --> 02:00:08.920
Our society.
1908
02:00:09.199 --> 02:00:12.880
Now. If the whole thing crumbles, I'll still be I'll
1909
02:00:13.079 --> 02:00:18.920
still be with it because it vindicates both the soul
1910
02:00:19.680 --> 02:00:22.800
and the spiritual consciouness. The spiritual consciousness is what alligns
1911
02:00:22.880 --> 02:00:27.800
us to God in the thing, and it's the body
1912
02:00:27.960 --> 02:00:31.159
is part of that. They're not separate. The body and
1913
02:00:31.439 --> 02:00:36.239
soul are incorporated, and in that there's a superior description
1914
02:00:36.800 --> 02:00:39.119
of who we are in the ideas of we have
1915
02:00:39.319 --> 02:00:42.720
intellect us and ratio as part of men's, which is
1916
02:00:42.800 --> 02:00:47.359
in your soul and things which explains your intuition, your ability.
1917
02:00:47.640 --> 02:00:51.199
And that's much better than the nonsense about a vague
1918
02:00:51.279 --> 02:00:54.439
kind of consciousness that happened, and that I believe that
1919
02:00:54.640 --> 02:00:56.760
it's the loss of the idea of the soul that
1920
02:00:56.920 --> 02:01:00.840
some people are more righty about the soul embedded in
1921
02:01:00.960 --> 02:01:04.399
a total cosmology which C. S. Lewis talks about the
1922
02:01:04.479 --> 02:01:07.000
discarded image that we we've cut off all of these
1923
02:01:07.079 --> 02:01:10.479
things that leaves us vulnerable to the nonsense that scientists
1924
02:01:10.520 --> 02:01:13.600
are coming up as if they're coming up with something great,
1925
02:01:13.640 --> 02:01:17.960
when people understood these things intuitively and naturally and socially
1926
02:01:18.359 --> 02:01:22.920
for hundreds of years in Europe. So I believe that
1927
02:01:23.039 --> 02:01:29.640
the essence of Christianity is the significance of the incarnation,
1928
02:01:30.279 --> 02:01:34.600
which vindicates the human form for whatever cosmic reasons it
1929
02:01:34.760 --> 02:01:40.479
needs to be. So it vindicates our own incarnation. It
1930
02:01:40.600 --> 02:01:44.000
tells us about what our spiritual consciousness is and how
1931
02:01:44.319 --> 02:01:47.399
what's soon it should already and take too. And it
1932
02:01:47.520 --> 02:01:51.239
gives us guidelines which reflect guidelines and other traditions. But
1933
02:01:51.399 --> 02:01:56.279
these are the guidelines to maintain that connection. Love your neighbor,
1934
02:01:56.399 --> 02:02:00.760
love God, and have a conception and to apply those
1935
02:02:00.880 --> 02:02:02.920
in relation to our neighbor and the horizontal and a
1936
02:02:03.000 --> 02:02:05.880
face to face context and how we meet them and
1937
02:02:06.600 --> 02:02:09.359
the good Smarty et cetera, to apply individually, not just
1938
02:02:09.720 --> 02:02:13.079
rely on social systems to do or people to achieve
1939
02:02:13.199 --> 02:02:18.159
social systems with violence to do it, to to do ourselves,
1940
02:02:18.800 --> 02:02:21.720
and I believe it's much more flexible. It has allowed
1941
02:02:21.840 --> 02:02:25.720
people in it's early days to to have a a
1942
02:02:26.920 --> 02:02:29.279
good relationship with the earth, as they did in Ireland.
1943
02:02:30.039 --> 02:02:34.159
It's nonsense that Christianity destroyed it was Christianity that destroyed
1944
02:02:34.239 --> 02:02:37.600
the environment. It was industrialism and associate with a particular
1945
02:02:37.760 --> 02:02:41.039
version of Protestantism that we could point a finger up,
1946
02:02:41.079 --> 02:02:44.680
but it's not consistent with with with the Catholic tradition.
1947
02:02:45.159 --> 02:02:50.920
So that would be the central argument that I would use,
1948
02:02:51.119 --> 02:02:53.800
and that's going to be vindicating more as you are
1949
02:02:53.960 --> 02:02:58.199
forced to be associated with technology, as they want to
1950
02:02:58.239 --> 02:03:02.840
put in plants in your body. Your notions of free will, etc.
1951
02:03:04.720 --> 02:03:11.199
Really come from a long theological anthropology that millions of people,
1952
02:03:11.359 --> 02:03:15.520
thousands of people, hundreds of great writers have explained to
1953
02:03:15.680 --> 02:03:19.039
us beforehand, and they've explained to us. What they're explaining
1954
02:03:19.239 --> 02:03:23.680
is the implications of what Jesus said as applied to life.
1955
02:03:23.680 --> 02:03:28.079
And that's what Dostievsky realized that you couldn't have you
1956
02:03:28.159 --> 02:03:31.439
couldn't have a civilization in Russia without Christ. And he said,
1957
02:03:31.520 --> 02:03:36.760
even if Christ wasn't true, that it would be needed.
1958
02:03:36.840 --> 02:03:39.800
And even when we see the Master and Margaritas. A
1959
02:03:39.880 --> 02:03:42.960
very interesting little point in this when the figure that
1960
02:03:43.039 --> 02:03:45.359
represents the devil is walking by and he hears the
1961
02:03:45.439 --> 02:03:48.960
two guys that's on the bench discussing about Christ and
1962
02:03:49.560 --> 02:03:53.439
ridicule the idea that he existed, and the devil figure said.
1963
02:03:53.520 --> 02:03:56.359
Oh, no, he did exist. You're wrong there, He didn't exist.
1964
02:03:56.520 --> 02:04:00.119
Even the devil says that, as the devil does in
1965
02:04:01.279 --> 02:04:05.359
in the context of the stories or the possession that
1966
02:04:05.479 --> 02:04:08.479
we have in the Bible, whether even the demons can
1967
02:04:08.600 --> 02:04:13.399
recognize Christ. That's why in the magical tradition the occultists
1968
02:04:13.960 --> 02:04:16.840
call on Jesus in that because it's a real force,
1969
02:04:16.880 --> 02:04:19.439
and we've led to believe that it's not. In the
1970
02:04:19.520 --> 02:04:24.039
context of spiritual warfare, the only force, the force that
1971
02:04:24.079 --> 02:04:27.319
they're opposing, is Christ and the only force against the
1972
02:04:27.399 --> 02:04:31.119
demonic force is Christ in that sense, and that's that's
1973
02:04:31.359 --> 02:04:36.600
inherent in the tradition. So both the incarnation and both
1974
02:04:37.199 --> 02:04:42.279
the evidence supremacy of Christ as a as the spiritual
1975
02:04:42.800 --> 02:04:47.560
opponent who has control over demons. That's good enough for me,
1976
02:04:47.720 --> 02:04:50.760
because we're going to see a lot more demonic forces. Uh,
1977
02:04:50.920 --> 02:04:54.720
And I'm no problem. I'm staying with I'm staying with
1978
02:04:54.840 --> 02:04:58.199
Christ and that the demons don't appeal to me. I
1979
02:04:58.319 --> 02:05:02.960
believe in these forces. I believe that they're ontologically true,
1980
02:05:03.880 --> 02:05:07.159
and I'm not going to mess about them. But I
1981
02:05:07.520 --> 02:05:11.119
understand that the whole point of the Ministry of Christ,
1982
02:05:11.560 --> 02:05:14.560
a lot of it was against possession, which is why
1983
02:05:14.920 --> 02:05:21.560
Dostoyevsky would understand that this ideological possession that the revolutionaries
1984
02:05:21.640 --> 02:05:26.880
had was very similar to demonic possession, if not demonic possession.
1985
02:05:28.640 --> 02:05:30.840
I don't know that answers the quest.
1986
02:05:31.119 --> 02:05:35.319
Amen to that. James absolutely, James, where can people? Where
1987
02:05:35.399 --> 02:05:37.359
can people find you? By the way, guys, if you
1988
02:05:37.439 --> 02:05:39.760
go in the description of this video, you're going to
1989
02:05:39.800 --> 02:05:43.520
see a link to James's book and the links he's
1990
02:05:43.560 --> 02:05:47.560
going to Where can people find your? Yeah?
1991
02:05:47.640 --> 02:05:47.880
Thanks?
1992
02:05:48.279 --> 02:05:52.920
I have a website James Tony dot com. And also
1993
02:05:53.439 --> 02:05:56.439
I started writing on substack recently a few months ago,
1994
02:05:56.920 --> 02:05:58.920
so I'm putting articles up.
1995
02:06:00.840 --> 02:06:01.920
On that as well.
1996
02:06:02.039 --> 02:06:05.960
So have a look at substack while they're well, they're
1997
02:06:05.960 --> 02:06:12.479
available and free, and they're they're the main sources you'll
1998
02:06:12.520 --> 02:06:16.399
see from the website other links as well, So thanks
1999
02:06:16.439 --> 02:06:18.000
for Michael, appreciate that.
2000
02:06:19.119 --> 02:06:21.800
Yeah, one hundred percent. James James, thank you very much, sir.
2001
02:06:21.920 --> 02:06:23.399
Thank you for your time tonight.
2002
02:06:24.359 --> 02:06:26.600
It's a great pleasure to to talk to you, and
2003
02:06:27.680 --> 02:06:31.640
we went to a variety of places as the conversation
2004
02:06:32.439 --> 02:06:36.079
free will, So I appreciate the opportunity in the platform.
2005
02:06:36.119 --> 02:06:42.000
I've enjoyed our previous conversations and I appreciate the opportunity
2006
02:06:42.039 --> 02:06:44.199
and the support. So thanks very much to you, Michael.
2007
02:06:44.600 --> 02:06:46.439
Yeah, thank you, James, thank you, no problem.