Why HR Always Gets Blamed And How To Change It

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You can have the best business strategy in the world,
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but if you get the people wrong, everything else gets harder.
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Today we're bringing together two experts who understand exactly how
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powerful the people side of business really is. David s.
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Cohen is a leadership and organizational expert. He's the founder
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of ds Cohen and Associates, an author of several books,
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including Selecting the Best, which is a book about building
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stronger organizations by hiring people whose values actually fit the culture.
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Joining him today is Rosie Allen, who is a managing
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director and chief human Resources officer at Eurasia Group and
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G zero Media, where she has helped support fifty percent
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organizational growth while reducing turnover from twenty six percent to
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just nine. Today, David is turning the tables and he's
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going to be into bewing Rosie about what it really
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takes to build great leaders, great teams and culture people
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actually want to be a part of. David and Rosie,
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Welcome to the show. David, I'm going to hand it
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over to you.
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Welcome today's show. Today I am with Rosie Allen, who
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will in a few seconds introduce yourself. This is the
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second in a series of conversations with leading CHROs on
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their perspective of what's happening in our industry, and with
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an HR, I hope to have a challenging and interesting conversation.
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Full disclosure, this is not the first time I've met Rosie.
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We've known each other for a few years. We've actually
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worked together a few times, and she has a lot
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of really good insights that I wanted to be able
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to bring to the world. So Rosie, wanting to take
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a second and introduce yourself.
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Okay, thanks David. My name is Rosie Allen. I've been
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in the industry of people for a few decades now.
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I actually started in the IT industry. No one believes it,
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but I was a systems programmer for a long time
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and even part of a big data center that I
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was a leader for. But I took a class in
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people and for my masters and went, oh, my goodness,
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they're even more interesting the computers. So that's what I've
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been doing in the last couple many years and loving it.
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And they are better than computers as far as the
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interesting part, and hard to predict, a lot harder to predict.
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And so currently my role as a chroro at Eurasier Group,
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which is a leading geopolitical consulting company and it's more global.
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So it's been an interesting ride as this part of
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my journey in the HR field. And I just passed
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five years with EG, so lots to take from my
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years of your AGA Group and other companies that I've
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been working for.
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That's great and thank you for that. Let's begin with
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an easy question. Okay, many years ago, there was an
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article about twenty years ago if you remember why we
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hate HR and Fast Company, and then there're more recently
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there's a gentleman as a podcast that calls the death
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of Why do you think that char has been classified
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as a villain by some and by themselves as a victim?
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What a good first question, David. I thought you were
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going to say it was an easy one. So okay,
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So the villain is easy because a lot of managers
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and leaders usurp their agency and say that instead they're
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doing it because HR made them do things, whether it's
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a decision about hire, a fire, a development, an increased
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rating and assessment, whatever it is. HR is much easier
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to blame on the decision instead instead of taking the ownership,
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and a lot of leaders do that because a lot
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of leaders aren't good at taking ownership or being leaders,
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and so I think they're the villain for that reason.
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There's also just a fun thing to talk about, oh,
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the HR around when people are acting up or doing
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something and we sort of get put into the bucket
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of the police, you know, the people police watching everybody
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making sure they're all acting right. I think they would
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laugh if they were ever in a n HR meeting
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and hurt us, speaking like we're just real people like
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everyone else. So I think that's why it's the villain.
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The other reason that we've kind of hurt ourselves in
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that story is because we overprocess things and we make
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a lot of big process decisions and implementations and systems
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that make it hard for us to be accessible to
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people and that make it hard for people to get
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what they need from us easily. And instead we sort
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of have that HR speak and kind of pile a
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lot of information on them that they don't want when
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they just want to know, you know, when when's my
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next PTO day? You know, we sort of go into
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the whole here's the holiday schedule here. So I think
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we've overprocessed and overbureaucracized our own our own industry.
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How's that okay? So what you know HR, with ALI
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coming on and and automating processes, I could see that
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the outsourcing process and spending money on other companies might
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be eliminated to some point by internal AI for processing
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vacation time, et cetera, et cetera. But HR. You know,
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if HR is just the audit police and is just
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processing technical stuff, HR is going to lose its position
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in the organization. And one of the things in the
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commentary you read today is HR spent a lot of
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time arguing for a seat at the table. And you know,
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finance never argued for that, Legal never argued for that,
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It never argued for that. They were always there. First
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of all, why does HR have to argue for it?
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And people say that they argued for and they haven't
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proven any viability, So why haven't they proved viability or
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perceived to? And number two is what do they have
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to do to prove the fact that they deserve this
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seat and they're contributing at the table.
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I'm challenged with this. I've been challenged with it in
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every role I've had. I love your point because it's true, legal,
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it finance. They're at the table. There's no question these
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are important. The HR organizations in companies, and I've seen
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it big and small. Although I would say it's easier
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the smaller the company gets, because the smaller the company gets,
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people realize you need a little bit of everything. The
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larger the company, it's harder. I think we got to
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the table and we didn't speak business. We spoke people,
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and it's a different way of looking at things. We
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always look at problems from a people first position. So
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if we're talking about finance and we're at the table
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and we're going through the p and ls and how
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we're doing, the HR person is typically saying, I'm worried
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about hiring too many people because it might impact the
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bottom line I'm hiring. I'm worried about, you know, the
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cost of benefits and and those are things that for
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a lot of people in the organization don't They don't
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get what that means. They say, you know, we only
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hire when we need somebody. We're not over hiring. You know.
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If anything, we hear there's not enough resources and you
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know benefits that they don't know anything about benefits. So
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when we say hey, we're you know, benefits are going up.
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We're trying to save money. That's our business side, our
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strategy side. It doesn't land on the other side because
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they've they've not experienced that. They just know benefits that
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they call and get support. And I could go on
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and on with examples, but I think that's the challenge.
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But we've all but we all have a laptop and
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we've all had an IT problem. So it's easy for
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it to get to the table because oh, yeah, I
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need you. I need you because I know every day
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I'm touching this laptop. And it's easy for finance to
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get to the table because every day I'm watching my
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budget and HR does so many things that no one
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knows they're doing all the time. You know, they're managing
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getting people who went from and visa's, you know, all
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the things that they have to do. So I think
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that's one of the problems is we got to the
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table and started talking about our business issues, and he
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didn't connect with what everybody else was talking about his
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business issues. So we got to the table, and then
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when we were asked about big questions, you know, the
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discussions happening about the big topics. How's the you know,
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revenue doing, how's the profitability doing. We didn't learn enough
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when we're in that conversation to say something that made
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enough impact that people felt like us being there was
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was worthwhile. So it's sort of it's sort of a
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we're still trying to prove that we matter and bring
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to light all the hidden things we do, and when
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we're at the table, we're not always saying it the
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right way to bring people to us. That's that's the
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challenge of getting the seat and proving that you deserve
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the seat. And it does make me question HR's viability
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because what I'm starting to see is CHROs being replaced
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by head up and just was on a form with
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some chrs recently that you know, we're being put backwards
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again to this tactical HR role and not the strategic
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people that we are.
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Yeah, that's a sad observation, but a real one, and
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it's one that actually raises two questions. One, when you
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talk about benefits and costs, about costs and you talk
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about this, does that actually reinforce the argument that HR
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is just the cost center and therefore doesn't contribute anything
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to the business.
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You know, it certainly doesn't help when people think about it.
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You know what HR is overseeing that it seems like
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it's just a lot of process. But let me bring
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to light the hidden part. Because at the table we're
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having conversations about p and L and revenue and all
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of these business What HR has been trying to bring
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to the table which hasn't gotten there is let's talk
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about our leaders. Let's talk about the people that are
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leaving and in the exit interviews, what they're telling us.
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Let's talk about what's going on in the culture. We
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want to talk about, you know, how to have when
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we're terminating ten people. Have we ever turned around and
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looked at ourselves and said what was our hand and
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their failures? Or have we always looked at it as
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their failures? And I think that the leadership teams I've
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experienced and seen and watched when I'm bringing those conversations up,
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they are not interested in spending time and management committee,
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operating committee, senior team meetings talking about that because all
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they want to talk about is the sales and the
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p and ls and all the business stuff that's keeping
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it afloat. So yes, it reinforces it if we're forced
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to talk about benefits and hires and not get to
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talking about the really important parts of what HR is
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bringing to the table and keeping that I was as
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I said, the hidden parts that we're doing every day brings.
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Me to a very interesting two part question which I
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was going to ask later on. But since we're here,
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this thing called culture, which is driven by as you know,
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my philosophy is driven by the behaviors. Define your values.
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Tell me about it. How a senior HR person when
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they realize the CEO is allowing a member of their
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team not to live the values, and that members teams
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behaviors trickle down and impact others in the other departments
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because they interact with them, and other departments are complaining,
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why are they behaving that way? They're not part of
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our organization's culture. They're acting counter to the culture. How
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does an HR person successfully bring to the c suite
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conversation that losing five key people just caut us half
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a million to two three million dollars and it's all
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because of one person allowing people to behave badly. If
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we got rid of that person or profited improve, our
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retention would improve. But the CEO was so gung ho
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on results. They can't see the forest from the tree.
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How does the person who's the head of HR get
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that message across successfully.
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It's probably the most difficult challenge of a CHR. Because
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you leaned in and said, we saw ten people leave,
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and we could show that the loss and that profitability.
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My experience is almost i would say worse, which is
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those ten people stayed and just disengaged in.
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The job, so retarget place.
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They were retired in place because you know, the market's tough,
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and they're saying, well, if I just comply and do
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what this person says, I can keep in my seat
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and not have to worry about it. You know, there
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are times when the behavior gets so bad that you
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do see people leave and they say, I'm they themselves
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have good values alignment, and they'll leave and say there's
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someplace that I can feel better working. But I see
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the opposite. I see them staying and either adopting the
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behavior or or work you know, or sitting in like
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you said, retiring in the seat. And that's true productivity loss, David,
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because that's where you think you're in good shape at
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least if people are leaving, you're seeing your attrition go up.
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You're seeing the gap. You're seeing one manager with a
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lot of people leaving, and you go, Okay, something's going
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on and you can address it. And for an HR person,
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that's when it's easy. We can pull up the numbers
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and say, look, five people have left out of this department,
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and the exit of your interviews, they're all saying this.
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But it's when they're staying and they're complaining. They're coming
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into HR, they're coming into my office, my colleagues office,
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complaining terribly about the behavior and how it's not a
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line to our values. You know, we say that, you know,
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we collaborate, and yet this person just you know, goes
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and does their own thing, never tells anybody, doesn't invite
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the right people to the meeting, you know, only advice
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people to the meeting if he thinks they have something
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really good to say, but not realizing that sometimes people
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can just absorb and connect things and bring back connection,
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you know, improvements, you know, all sorts of things like that.
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So people are staying and they're just disengaging or they're
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adopting the behavior, and I think the outcome there is
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the whole culture is now depleted and what we have
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on the wall and say that matters and our values
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is doesn't exist. And now people think nothing about the culture.
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They say, come on, we don't really collaborate or we
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don't really value caring. Look at how so and so
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talks to so and so in a meeting with everybody listening.
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I mean, you know, and I guess I can do
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that now too. Or you know, people run into HR's office.
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I'm not allowed to do that, but this leader can
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do that and get away with it. How is that?
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You know? That's that's the kind of stuff. So I
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think it just creates it literally blows up your culture,
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and it creates an atmosphere that is driven by accountability
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and not about trust. People aren't really happy there. They
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could be so much more productive, They could get so
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many more things done, and they don't because they're just
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sort of also in that fight flight or fear place
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because they don't know, you know, what's next. The culture
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isn't there to hold on to, to believe in, to
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count on. So I think it's even worse than people
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leaving David.
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They want to take it to another level. You're the
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chro You see this happening out there?
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Yeah, you know.
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How to articulate it and relate it back to the values. Yeah,
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so what advice do you have? Two others to say,
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here is a methodology, Here is a process that successfully
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gets the CEO and maybe the CFO to actually see
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that the values. The consequence of them allowing another member
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of their team to not live the values has a consequence,
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and therefore they become the champions of the values by
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dealing with this one individual. How do you persuade the
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CEO that if he or she doesn't act on it,
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there's going to be trouble in River City.
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Yeah, and I've been in that position. I can tell
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you from experience how I've done it. There's probably lots
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of ways. I'll give you my way. I was in
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a situation once where we had a pretty obvious misbehavior
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by a leader and it wasn't a question of did
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it happen or didn't it happen? That was very well established.
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But this person drove a lot of revenue. This person
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brought a lot of revenue into the business. And as
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we sat with this leader of a company who helped
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build the values that were that were on the web page,
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on the wall, on all the places you know, was
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really tormented. And I could see this scene eos challenge,
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the tension of I know what I said. I said,
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these things mattered in a place when it was safe,
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with all of the leaders around, we decided these are
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the values. But now for the first time, I'm being
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challenged about them. And the CEO was very tormented. And
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I saw that and honestly was a little surprised. I
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thought it was so clear cut what had happened and
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what we were going to do about it. I was
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actually taken back that we were having the discussion even
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about what we were going to do. And I saw
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the CEO ask another individual in the room, you know,
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what would you do, and the person was kind of
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wishy washy, Well, it is true, they're you know, they're
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bringing in a lot of revenue. Maybe it's not so bad.
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Maybe we could talk about, you know, kind of dismissing it.
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And got to me and I said, it's there's not
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even a question, you know, whether the person is bringing
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a zero revenue or millions of dollars. We said, this matters.
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We have it on our web page, we have it
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on our walls. We tell people this is what we value.
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We train people yearly. They have to take, you know,
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different harassment trainings, and we talk about that, and here
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it is and you're asking, what should you do? I'm shocked,
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and I just said it. I'm shocked. To me, this
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is a no brainer. This is one of the easier
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issues I've had to deal with. And by being so
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confident in my position, it sort of threw the CEO
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back to say, yeah, you're right, you know, I just
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I know the tension was there for them, but I
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don't think they sort of saw it. And I said,
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you know, and if something doesn't happen, here's the consequences
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we will be facing. And I listed it and maybe
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this is what got the CEO. Maybe not, but I said,
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and then when the next thing happens and we're on
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the stand and they say, has this happened before, and
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we have to honestly say yes, and what did you do?
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We just dismissed it. How's that going to look right
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when it gets worse? And that convinced the CEO to
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do the right thing. And the CEO did do the
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right thing.
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So what I hear you're saying is a chroo has
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to have the courage to say this is what's going on.
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This is the consequence, and it's a reflection on us
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as leaders to say one thing and do something else.
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It's right, Okay, So now I'm going to ask you
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the tough question. What happens when you are convinced the
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values are real? You know that behaviors in the organizations
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have validated them, as I call it, through you know,
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moments of truth that people have lived. There's corporate legends
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around the values. But then you get a CEO says, yeah,
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but the values are aspirational. We don't have to live
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them yet. What do you do then, not that you've
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been in that.
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I've been in that position, yes I have, and so
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I don't have a I don't have trouble with a man.
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It's a CEO telling me that they're aspirational in the
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sense that we know they exist and we're not great
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at it yet, but we're trying to get there, right,
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So it's aspirational in the sense that we are striving
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to get to that space and we're going to do
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all the things to get there. My trouble with the
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aspirational is when it's don't worry, you know, it's sort
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of a wish list, and if we haven't got it yet,
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you know we'll get there eventually, and you know, don't
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worry about it. So what I've had to do in
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the past when someone has told me they're aspirationals is
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to say they can't be aspirational a sense that you know,
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we're we're coming around the corner into the finish line
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and we're going to get there. Not aspirational as if
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we're not really committed to them, or we're not going
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to hold people accountable until we feel comfortable holding people accountable, Right,
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you have to I would say that later. No, no, no,
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these are the values. We've said it, so now we
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have to start living it. The aspiration is when a
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day comes and we can look around and say we're
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all doing them all the time without question. This is amazing.
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The aspirational isn't. We'll just leave us life for a while,
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maybe we'll get there.
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So what do you do if you're the CHR and
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you have leader members your c suite who consistently say,
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you know, that's nice, such touchy feely stuff. Yeah, they're operational,
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they're guidelines. You know, the business comes first personal feelings.
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You know, I hired this guy as a friend of
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mine or I trust them. What do you do then
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as a chro in order to be able to sleep
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at night?
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Sometimes you you're back to those courageous conversations, you know,
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where you say, we just did something and it broke
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our values and we need to all own it, and
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I want to bring it up, and I want to
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have a discussion about it, and I want us to
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think about what did that just do to the company.
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Did it set us back? Did it set us you know,
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what are we going to do to get back on
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our And I've had really good CEOs who if I
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say something and you know, hey, the way you just
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spoken that meeting or that the thing that just happened
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is going to not have a good reverberation, and the
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CEOs said, I don't think so. Sometimes they've said, well,
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let me check it out, and they've done their own
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checking it out and come back and said, oh, you're right,
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it did do that. I didn't really even notice it.
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But you know, all a CHRO can do is keep
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calling it out, keep bringing people forward, keep bringing it
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to meetings. I've been more successful in some organizations than
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others with this. To be quite Frank, And I find
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that you're right sometimes when I go, well, that doesn't
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line up. You know, we're supposed to be caring, we're
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supposed to be innovative, we're supposed to be you know,
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whatever the word in your culture and your values is.
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And I find that people can somehow make a story
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that says no, no, we were see we did this instead.
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So maybe David, it's to frequency and not doing it
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not so I think leaders can say yeah, I did it,
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seeing I did it, and they don't recognize that they
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need to do it all the time. I don't know
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if I'm answering your question very.
415
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Well, but that goes with that goes with my philosophy
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that integrity by itself is out of value, but living
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all the values all the time is integrity. So but
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it's really tough to point out to the CEO that
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they lack integrity because that's going to drive them.
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Yeah, and I've you know, I've done it and trying
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to do it in very soft ways. And quite honestly,
422
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I know where I've fallen down and not done it
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when someone's come in my office and talk to me
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about what the CEO did, which I know as I
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listen to them is horrendous and it's affected them. It's
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in fact of their health, it's impacted their job. I mean,
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things can happen that are really personal for people, and
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when you try to talk to the CEO and say listen,
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I want to talk to you about what's going on,
430
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sometimes they just don't want to talk about it, you know, thanks, Rosie,
431
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it's you know, okay, okay, all right, whatever. I know.
432
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I know, you know, I've heard this feedback before. I
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love this one. This one's the one that a lot
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of CEOs and a lot of people who misbehave love
435
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this excuse. They say, well, you know, I'm very direct,
436
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and I think that saying that for me is just
437
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saying I'm rude. But if I say I'm direct, it's,
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you know, it's more acceptable, right, because I'm a direct person.
439
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I think I know when i'm being directed when I'm
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being indirect, And I think you can do that in
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a very very professional and personal way that is not
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leaving the other person feeling terrible about it, right, But
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they still get the message. They know exactly what's happening,
444
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and you don't have to, you know, break them down,
445
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so to speak, But I like that about a lot
446
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of CEOs who like to say I'm direct, you know. Okay, okay,
447
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is that what we're calling it today? Okay?
448
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So it's interesting. The organization Crucial Leadership, which is owned
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by Crucial Conference Stations, did a survey of fifteen hundred
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employees and they said of the fifteen hundred, only nine
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percent felt comfortable going to or trusting going to HR,
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which means eighty nine percent of the organization feels they
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don't trust HR. Yeah, how do how does the CHRO
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work with your team of HR business partners, HR leaders,
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people in learning and development, succession planning? How do you
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hold them accountable to get HR to be trusted?
457
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Yeah?
458
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Well, you know, I don't know that. You know, what
459
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was it Peter Sangay's old book that had sort of
460
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trust was an outcome? Right, you have to do the environment,
461
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you have to do the processes, and you have to
462
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do the people, and then out the outcome of that
463
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is trust. So the only thing that I can help
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my team do, which I help them do a lot,
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is to become trusted advisors when when people critically need HR.
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I'm proud to say that I get the feedback, you know,
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and I get it when I'm doing assessments and I'm
468
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asking for feedback. Yeah, you know, I really value xce's conversations.
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They you know, and I know I can trust them
470
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because what I say never gets out, and you know,
471
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et cetera, et cetera. So by doing when people need
472
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them and doing, then the word gets out. No, you
473
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can go to HR.
474
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No.
475
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HR really is a trusted business partner. They are not
476
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going to tell everybody everything. And so it's only by
477
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doing and coaching my team. Hey, you know, if there's
478
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a problem, I'll say, wy, don't you go over and
479
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:42.680
chat with so and so or call so and so on,
480
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.519
or maybe pass them in the in the eating area
481
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:47.400
and say, hey, how's the day going, how are things?
482
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:49.559
You know, just feel out what's going on over there.
483
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:53.519
And when they become more visible, you know, then people go, oh,
484
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.640
here they are. I think the child. The bad thing
485
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.319
that chrs do is HR has its own section in
486
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.279
the building, its own desk in the corner, and people
487
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.200
don't see them. And then there's still this some morphous
488
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.599
group and they're afraid to talk to. So building the
489
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.640
relationships with people walking around more, you know, asking questions,
490
00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:15.519
getting people to tell you what's going on, and then
491
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:17.559
when they say, hey, that didn't they didn't go past
492
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:20.039
that person, they really did use that or I can
493
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.079
trust them. It's the only way to do it. It's
494
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:26.440
I don't know that trusting HR though, is is the goal.
495
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.680
I know that's probably controversial, right. I want you to
496
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:32.240
rely on me. I want you to know that I'm
497
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.200
here and I will do something. You know, if you
498
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.440
say something and I tell people they're talking to me,
499
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.240
stop right here, if you continue, and I want you
500
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.880
to I just need you to know I can't just
501
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:45.880
hear this. I'm going to act on it. And it's
502
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.039
amazing how many people say, Okay, then I'm gonna not
503
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:49.839
talk to you, or I don't really want to make
504
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:51.599
the complaint then because I don't want to get someone
505
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:55.240
in trouble, and we'll say, well, well then let's talk
506
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:56.880
and we'll try to pull it out and try to
507
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.279
make something happen. But I don't know if it's I
508
00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:01.039
need you to trust, but I need you to rely
509
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:03.759
on me. I need you to call me and say,
510
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:08.079
whether it goes up, down, or sideways, I can rely
511
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.480
on HR handling it the right way, you know, because
512
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:13.279
if you want to trust HR and say I'm just
513
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:15.880
gonna tell HR and I'll trust that they'll do something
514
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:18.960
for me on my side to make my thing happen,
515
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.920
don't trust HR to do that. Trust HR to hear
516
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:25.640
a story, investigate it fully, and do the right thing,
517
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:27.559
and it might end up back on you. I had
518
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.640
an incident one time where I went down for an
519
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:34.279
ethics issue to an office to look at the person
520
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:38.519
who had done something, and as I investigated, I found
521
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.799
that person had reacted to something happening to them at
522
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.200
the same moment, and then I found out all of
523
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.400
the bad behavior was from the person who called it
524
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:50.160
in and some people around them, And so it turns
525
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:53.000
quickly on, oh my goodness, this is not the problem.
526
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:55.440
That's the problem. And the person who called it in
527
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:56.559
and said, well, I wouldn't have called you if I
528
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.440
knew you were going to get me in trouble, It's like, well,
529
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.440
that's not the goal. The goal is for you to
530
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:06.680
rely on us to find to dig out the truth
531
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:07.839
and do the right thing.
532
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:11.599
One of the things that I find is whenever I
533
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:16.920
talk to organizations about their values the culture, I always
534
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:23.279
am pointed towards the HR person and the CHR O.
535
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:28.880
Then somebody else reports to them. Who's really who really
536
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:32.000
owns the culture of the organization? Who owns the value?
537
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:35.720
We know this, right, values? Right? The culture is the
538
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:38.559
values in action, right, that's the line, right. The values
539
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:44.160
in action builds the culture. So you can nobody nobody
540
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.400
expects HR not to act in the values because HR
541
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:50.279
are people people by nature of us self selecting into
542
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:53.559
this role. We like people, We want to see people succeed.
543
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.440
We have an empathy for people. We care about people.
544
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.839
It's part of our job. If you're in this seat,
545
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:03.440
people matter tremendously to you, okay, and so you are
546
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.319
going to like to have good values. You're going to
547
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:07.920
hang your hat on it and say I'm glad they're
548
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:10.880
here because it helps me know how to act, and
549
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:13.880
you're going to push others to do it. People expect
550
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:16.759
that though. It's sort of like, of course, the chef's
551
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:18.599
going to be the best cook in the room, okay,
552
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:21.200
but everybody's got to eat. You can't always expect the
553
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:23.799
chef to do all the cooking. So you know, this
554
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:25.880
is what has to happen, is the values have to
555
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.319
and the culture have to stop being laid at the
556
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:31.759
foot of HR, you know, I mean, certainly we will
557
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.119
help with the process. And by the way I could
558
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.039
put values, I could put performance assessments, I could put
559
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:39.960
succession plans, I could put so many things in this list, right,
560
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:43.400
but value is probably the most critical culture, most critical
561
00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:47.480
because the goodness, that little circle of brightness which is
562
00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:49.880
HR acting always on the best interest of the company
563
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.559
and balancing the risk of the company and the people
564
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:55.920
it gets put onto the carpet when it comes to
565
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:58.960
the CEO just did something and everybody saw it, you know,
566
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:01.559
and an all hands made you just spoke rudely to somebody,
567
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:04.000
What do you think the whole organization just went, did
568
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:08.519
you know deep breath altogether? HR took the deepest breath probably,
569
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.559
but everybody you know sawd and you know, or if
570
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.519
it's it's a meeting and a leader turns around and says, well,
571
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.240
you know, that team doesn't matter, don't don't care about that.
572
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:19.799
They're not good anyway, Let's just do our thing, you know,
573
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:24.279
Then there goes there, It all goes. So you can't
574
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:27.160
rely on HR, rely on HR to help you build
575
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:29.359
that values and do the process and figure it out.
576
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:32.680
But if your leaders aren't leading it and only HR is,
577
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:34.519
you may as well not have done the work.
578
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:38.039
So if a CEO doesn't take accountability for it and
579
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.880
allows people to get away with it, therefore it crumbles.
580
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.480
So ultimately the accountability has to rest with the CEO.
581
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.640
It always it always should, right if if you think
582
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:51.839
about the person setting the direction in the tone of
583
00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:55.200
the organization, no one is more at the pointy tip
584
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.519
of the spar than the CEO. I think the CHRO
585
00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:59.240
is right there with them, but I think the CEO.
586
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:02.680
You know, people look at that person differently. Again, they
587
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:05.720
look at Rosy Allen and think, of course it's Rosy,
588
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:09.920
she's HR. If they see, you know, catch the CEO
589
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:12.359
doing it well. And there's times when the CEO does
590
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.799
it really well and it makes you ripples. Oh did
591
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:17.559
you see that they did it well? That sets you know,
592
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.079
that's that's more impactful, much.
593
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.720
More impact I've seen it many times when the CEO
594
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:28.119
holds one of their people accountable for bad behavior and
595
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.960
word of course gets out. Then people feel really good.
596
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:34.960
But yeah, I can tell you and that oh sorry,
597
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:38.279
as I say, and that incident I was giving earlier
598
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:40.240
where the CEO is really struggling about what to do.
599
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:44.119
The CEO he picked the right avenue that reverberated. In fact,
600
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.559
we got feedback within a week that you know precisely
601
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.240
that people were watching, people were waiting to see how
602
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:53.359
that was handled, and because it was handled correctly, it
603
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:56.119
really had impact positive impact to the culture.
604
00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:59.920
Yeah, it's interesting because they just had a thought that, well,
605
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.720
your shareholders might be looking at your bottom line. The
606
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:07.480
people who produce the bottom line are looking at your behaviors,
607
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:11.359
and it's the impact of their behaviors that are going
608
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:13.960
to produce the bottom line. So if you don't get
609
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.039
your people right, you don't get the bottom line right.
610
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.279
Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. That's really good.
611
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.839
It's really it's thoughtful because I think that we can
612
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:26.839
we tend to keep thinking how do we turn the
613
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.079
widget more, how do we turn up the sales more,
614
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:30.880
how do we get more people in the pipeline to
615
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:34.079
have the sales better or the revenues, And we really
616
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.960
hyper focus on that in organizations, and we don't often
617
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:41.240
stop and say time out. While we're turning the cons
618
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:43.480
better and doing what we need to do, what about
619
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:46.279
the people who are here, who've gotten us here? What
620
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:48.680
can we do to get them more engaged? Because they're
621
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.920
already here, they came, they want to be here, they're
622
00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:52.920
excited to be here. How do we get them to
623
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:57.200
produce more and have fun while they're doing it right? Build?
624
00:33:57.319 --> 00:33:59.839
How do we have people build more relationships, have more fun,
625
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.440
get to want to support each other, have, you know,
626
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:06.640
cheer on each other's successes. We don't focus enough on that.
627
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.559
Chroos myself. We often get called and I'm thinking about
628
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:12.920
all of my rules, you know, get called in to
629
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.639
be the cheerleaders. Just do all of those kind of activities,
630
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.280
you know, have the fun day out, do the whatever
631
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.519
that's going to help people feel good, you know. But
632
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:25.280
but you don't see like business A and business B saying,
633
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:27.400
let's business A and business be who have to work
634
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:29.400
together all the time, go out, like have a lunch
635
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:31.199
with them so they can just meet each other and
636
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:33.480
have more fun. What if we put you know, this
637
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:35.199
group with that group who they kind of don't get
638
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:38.159
along anymore. Let's put them together and get them to
639
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.639
be you know, have relationships. Because once you have a relationship,
640
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:43.440
you know, you let all sorts of things slide. And
641
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.119
you're not as critical and you're more supportive of one another. Right,
642
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:49.320
And how do we in the middle of that environment,
643
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.639
how do we build values into that environment? How do
644
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:53.800
we reinforce while we're there? You know this is part
645
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:55.800
of our you know, we go off to a volunteering
646
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.599
event just so you know this like is reinforcing art
647
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:01.159
that we care about the community we're in are We're
648
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.239
going to have all hands and we're going to do
649
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:06.880
some strategic sort of fun activity and we say, you know,
650
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:12.800
this is supporting our value of curious, curiosity and entrepreneurship.
651
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.400
You just learn some of that in this process. You know,
652
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.719
we don't do enough of that.
653
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:18.760
Well, now you get to a topic we can do
654
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.639
a whole nother forty five minutes on is the difference
655
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:25.679
between the importance of the employee experience and employee engagement.
656
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:28.320
My philosophy is if you don't get the experience right,
657
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:32.000
you can waste your time with engagement activities. Of course,
658
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:34.599
the experience is the promise I'm going to treat you
659
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:37.800
a certain way, make decisions a certain way, and we
660
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:41.199
have a certain set of values that will always guide
661
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:45.239
every decision. So you can have a fun activity but
662
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:49.119
if you have a manager who doesn't live those values,
663
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:53.000
when you go home after that fun activity, the first
664
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:56.320
thing you talk about is how the manager upset you. Well,
665
00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:00.679
that manager's behavior goes back to the employee experience, which
666
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.880
trump's having fun. So it's not really you know, I'm
667
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.239
not supposed to make you. I don't believe CEO is
668
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.079
supposed to make people happy. I don't think they're supposed
669
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.519
to make them have fun. I think you're supposed to
670
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:17.679
have the experience it says. I feel connected. I belong
671
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:21.599
to this organization, I live the values. They align with
672
00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:26.159
my values, and they have me deliver on a purpose
673
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:29.320
that is meaningful to me and meaningful to the company.
674
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:34.159
So therefore, working here as meaning because so many important
675
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:38.079
or you know, police, fire, military, you know they're not
676
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:41.920
going to have fun necessarily, but they work best because
677
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:46.039
there's that common belief in their behaviors and a common
678
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:49.119
belief in the person you know, the purpose. That's why
679
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:49.559
they work.
680
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.960
Yeah, and to build on that, David, one of my
681
00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:57.079
best experiences, my first experience in the workplace was working
682
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.519
for a company that still exists, Automatic processing ADP. And
683
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:03.280
you know, part of it was because I was at
684
00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:04.960
the top of the fun curve, as I caught, right,
685
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.280
you're graduated from college, you finally have a job, you're
686
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.400
having lots of fun, you don't have any responsibility. So
687
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:14.360
part of it was that, But the company's full goal
688
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.280
was to get payroll out the door and to the
689
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:19.679
right people at the right time, with the right dollars.
690
00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:21.599
And it was very complex to get that. I mean,
691
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.800
thousands and thousands of customers that relying on it's payroll.
692
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:26.360
It's not something that, oh, well, if you don't get
693
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:28.159
paid tomorrow, maybe we can fix it next week. And
694
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:31.039
the company at that beginning, you know, I joined, and
695
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.880
I went to my different trainings, and I remember this
696
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:36.800
little mirror they gave us that had a little smiley
697
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:38.480
face kind of etched in it and said, put a
698
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:42.960
smile on your voice. But the whole purpose of all
699
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:45.880
this training was to be customer first. And here I
700
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:47.519
was an IT at the time, thinking why do I
701
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:49.480
and I'm not talking to a customer. I'm over here
702
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.159
doing systems work. But it was so integral and the
703
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:55.559
fact that we were all trying to get one thing done.
704
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.559
It was very clear what the one mission was, which
705
00:37:58.599 --> 00:37:59.960
was to get the payroll out the door to the
706
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.280
person in their paycheck and in their back right. Made
707
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.400
it very easy for us to just gel together when
708
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.800
something happened. You saw people everything from people who were
709
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:11.760
processing the payrolls, the people who are editing and taxing
710
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.760
and entering the payrolls come together. Oh my gosh, copy
711
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:18.119
ABC is running late. There's a problem. Okay, what do
712
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:20.840
we need to do? It was just created this common
713
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:24.760
purpose and that purposes that common purpose really worked. And
714
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:28.320
in organizations where I've had are seen or experienced harder
715
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.559
and more difficult relationships. It's because it feels like we're
716
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.639
fighting purpose instead of having a common purpose.
717
00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:39.800
So I hear you, hear you? Right. The two key
718
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:45.119
things for CHRO is to understand the behaviors that define
719
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:48.719
the values and not let anybody define them any way
720
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:52.559
they want. So there's confusion, But to have a consistent
721
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:56.679
set of behaviors that define the values, old people accountable
722
00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:00.000
for living those values can focus on the common purpose
723
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:02.760
is a common vision that's meaningful.
724
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:04.519
Yeah, that's right.
725
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.719
H is not doing that. They're not doing their job.
726
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:10.760
And I don't think we do it well enough. And
727
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:12.840
I can say for myself, I don't spend enough time
728
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.840
on it because we're getting pulled in so many directions
729
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:18.880
to you know, there's always a change in the hiring
730
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:21.039
and the placements, and it's the people moving and it's
731
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:23.119
all I mean, it's a new system we're putting in
732
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:25.159
and we're upgrading, and we're using AI and we're trying
733
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:28.079
to improve, and we're trying to improve, improve, improve. We
734
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:32.000
are always doing so many projects and so many you
735
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:34.960
know how many transformation HR transformations I've been through, I
736
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:39.800
can't even count. Right, let's transform again. And then you're
737
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:42.760
helping the company because the company is doing there whatever
738
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.000
it is, one firm, one, this one that you know,
739
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.000
those were big for a long time, but even just
740
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:49.119
a team that's restructuring and you're helping with that team
741
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.800
restructuring or you're helping that team figure out their next strategy.
742
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:55.320
You're doing so many things that that core mission of
743
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:57.480
what we're here and to do that no one else
744
00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:00.599
can really do, gets drawn. It's dropped.
745
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:01.639
And that's right.
746
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:05.719
I do get frustrated. I do have my moments for
747
00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:08.039
myself where I go, gosh, when I look at everything
748
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:10.199
I've done, the thing that I know is the most
749
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:13.039
important and I should be doing the most. I'm letting
750
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.079
put aside because it can be put aside, you know
751
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.920
I can't sadly, it's you know, sort of like exercise.
752
00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:21.960
You know, if you don't do it, it won't feel
753
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:23.880
as good, but you can still live, right.
754
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.480
That's kind of motality we're getting towards the end. So
755
00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:31.000
what's one piece of advice that you would have for
756
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:37.880
aspiring CHROs or curves HROs that they must hold true
757
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:41.280
and have the courage to do where they are going
758
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:44.960
to always be seen or have hr be seen as
759
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.599
the villain and not the victim. What's one thing one
760
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:51.079
piece of advice you'd have for them.
761
00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:54.679
I would build a relationship with that CEO that is
762
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.760
different than any relationship you've ever had in business, And
763
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:00.800
I would in the way I would do that is
764
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.119
I wouldn't. I would insist on the check ins and
765
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:08.239
not the half hour every week? How's it going? Give
766
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.079
me an update? What are we doing with this? But
767
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:14.280
making forcing yourself to make the time to say, you know,
768
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:18.679
once a month, we're going to sit down for an
769
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.880
hour and we're going to talk about so, how's the
770
00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:24.239
company doing, how's the culture doing, how are the people doing,
771
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:27.119
where are we concerned and have that conversation because I
772
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.840
think genuinely CEOs care about this stuff. They just don't.
773
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.880
You know, if I am not finding the time to
774
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:34.519
pay attention to it like the way I want to
775
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:37.480
and not making the time, how am I going to
776
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:39.960
expect that they're doing that right? And I think that
777
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:43.559
if you don't keep bringing that conversation back and keeping
778
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.320
it fresh, and you know, keep your log. And I've
779
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:48.599
done this many times. I keep my log of concerns
780
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.039
and I'll bring it to my CEO conversations and go, Okay,
781
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:52.840
here's the people I'm worried about, or here's what's going
782
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.239
on that we should be talking about. I think though,
783
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.920
that should be a fully different conversation than the check
784
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.239
in and operational and all the stuff you get pulled
785
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:02.880
into that you have to deal with every day. And
786
00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:06.320
if you start to do that once a month and
787
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:09.519
you build this relationship with your CEO, you'll see the
788
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:12.639
CEOs start to come to you and say, hey, I
789
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:16.440
heard set this. Let's add that to that conversation. And
790
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:18.960
they're starting to own it. They're starting to see it.
791
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.280
They're starting to think in terms of don't just look
792
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:23.440
at what we're doing, but look at how we're doing it.
793
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:25.480
And as long as you can keep saying that, like,
794
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:27.599
I'm going to be here to keep helping you figure
795
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:30.199
out how and be mindful of how we're doing it
796
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:32.719
to make sure that you CEO think that we're doing
797
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:35.719
it the right way. And then in those conversations you'll
798
00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:37.840
see things grow out of it. You know, maybe we
799
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:40.000
should have a conversation with these three people and talk
800
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:41.400
to them about it, or maybe we should talk a
801
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:43.400
little more about, you know, the outcome of the mid
802
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.280
years and what it really had on the culture because
803
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:48.559
it didn't go well or it went great, and we
804
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:51.480
have some uplift you know when you get bonuses, you know,
805
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:53.519
you get like a six week uplift of people, and
806
00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:56.320
let people get their bonuses. How do we take advantage
807
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:58.760
of that and keep people feeling good? So my advice
808
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.920
is build that relationship with your CEO, force the time
809
00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:06.559
together to talk about that kind of thing frequently once
810
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.719
a month and take action on it and let that
811
00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:12.400
expand and tell your team to do the same and
812
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:14.760
encourage your leaders. Hey, you should have a meeting with
813
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.000
your leaders once a month. That's just about how are
814
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.440
we doing? Not the what we're doing, but how are
815
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:23.840
we doing? And if we could change that conversation from
816
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.280
what we're doing to how we're doing, I think that
817
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:28.440
would make the biggest impatter.
818
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:31.800
Well, Rosie, I want to thank you for taking the time,
819
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:36.800
especially since it's certification. So also thank your family for
820
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:41.400
allowing you to miss a little bit of beach time
821
00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:46.239
and come inside and join us for this. It's been really,
822
00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:49.440
I think, very interesting, and you raise a lot of
823
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:53.159
issues that we could probably talk another hour about. Yeah,
824
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:56.119
and I hope HR is slipping away from the table.
825
00:43:57.159 --> 00:43:57.960
I hope so too.
826
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:01.920
I hope so as it gets delegated down and becomes
827
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.079
you know, and unfortunately always seems to rest under the
828
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:11.159
chief financial officer, which gives another bad impression to the organization.
829
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.960
But we'll have to do another one. Enjoy the rest
830
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:19.280
of your vacation, insights. I really appreciate it. Thank you,
831
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:20.400
thank you.
832
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:21.159
I enjoyed it.
833
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:26.679
Okay, Wow, what an amazing conversation that was. I want
834
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.320
to thank both David and Rosie for being on the
835
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:33.519
show and for having such an incredible conversation. Rosie, I
836
00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:36.119
think you've given leaders listening today so much to think
837
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:40.199
about when it comes to their people, their culture, and
838
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:44.559
the kind of organization that they're ultimately creating. And David,
839
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.079
thank you for leading this conversation and for bringing in
840
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:50.519
your own experiences and perspectives into it as well. If
841
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.559
you'd like to learn more about Rosie Allen and the
842
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:56.679
work that she is doing at Eurasia Group and Jezier Media,
843
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:02.639
you can visit Eurasiagroup dot net and g Zeromedia dot com.
844
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:05.239
To learn more about David Cohen and his work, please
845
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:08.880
go to SAG ltd dot com and make sure you
846
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:13.119
check out his newest book called Selecting the Best Fostering
847
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:16.880
a workforce driven by values for lasting success and check
848
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:18.920
this out, especially if you're a leader who wants to
849
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.280
build a team based on more than just skills and resumes.
850
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.920
As always, we will have these links in the show
851
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.360
notes so you can have quick access to both of
852
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:31.880
our guests websites and materials. Today and again, I want
853
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:34.039
to thank you so much for tuning into the Advisor.
854
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.480
Stay tuned for the next amazing episode. Take care everyone,
855
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:38.000
Bye bye,