Curses, Trolls and Valkyries with comic writer Doug Wagner

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Welcome to Valhalla Conversations podcast. I'm your host Becky Hill,
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otherwise known as Soul Chaser Becky and I am
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a proud Viking geek. I fell in love with the
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history, culture and mythology of the Viking
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Age and I have been on an endless quest for more
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ever since. Join me as I discuss all things North
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with those who have been inspired by Viking Age
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history and North mythology in their creative
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works or those who have studied the sagas and
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archaeology and review. how such subjects are
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being presented to modern audiences today. If
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you like Viking stuff you are welcome in my Valhalla
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and I hope you stay for the conversation. This
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episode of Valhalla Conversations is dedicated
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to comic artist Tim Odland who sadly passed away
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this summer of 2025. Tim's lifelong dream was
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to illustrate a comic published by Image Comics.
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Beware the Eye of Odin is that comic, that dream.
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I will treasure it always in Tim's memory for
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an example of his amazing talent. Thank you for
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your dream, Tim. Rest in peace. Welcome everyone
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to Valhalla Conversations podcast. After a bit
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of hiatus through September and October for a
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wonderful variety of reasons, we are back. Valhalla
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is open and our newest guest, I am delighted
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to announce, is Doug Wagner. And he is here to
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speak to me about his wonderful comic book, because
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I have the combined edition here, called Beware
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the Eye of Odin. Now, if that doesn't scream
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Viking to you, then you need glasses. So, welcome
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Doug, welcome to Valhalla. Well, thank you so
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much for having me on, Becca. I've been looking
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forward to talking to you. So this is awesome.
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Brilliant. Would I be safe to say that maybe
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this particular comic series is one of your lesser
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-known titles? Because I know you've kind of
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got a wonderful serial killer, fashionista comic
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arc going on that's only recently finished, I
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believe. That would be fair. Yeah, Beware of
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the Odin is definitely probably one of my lesser
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-known titles. I've kind of become known. whether
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I wanted to or not for doing serial killers and
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cannibalistic furries so that's kind of like
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what I'm known for but you know I do love to
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dive into other stuff so this is one of my favorites.
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Oh well I'm pleased but I don't know how it came
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up on my algorithm on socials and it's like I
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need to have that that looks amazing so it's
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straight to my local comic book shop and thankfully
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Kapow comics were able to get it in for me and
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I've reread it at least twice now and I just
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absolutely love it. So I guess we should start
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at the beginning. Where did the idea for this
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amazing original North story, in a way, come
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from? Well, I mean, Tim Odlin, the artist and
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I, we started out, I moved here in Utah probably
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about 10 years ago, and he and I just started
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going to, I met him at, I'm getting confused,
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let me start over. We met at what we have down
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in Salt Lake, a drink and draw. So a lot of comic
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book artists and other artists of animation and
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stuff get together once a week and just kind
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of like sit and talk business and doodle and
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that kind of stuff. And we found out like we
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live like five minutes from each other. So we
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started like, I was like, hey, why don't we just
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start writing together and save the gas money?
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Because it's like a 30 minute trip for us. And
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we started driving together and quickly became
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friends. Tim was like one of the sweetest human
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beings that ever met, you know, and he was an
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artist. I loved his work. And then we decided
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we wanted to meet together just one on one. So
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strangely as it is, we started meeting every
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Wednesday for lunch at Taco Bell. And we'd been
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there for like three or four months. And then
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one day he goes, hey, why don't we work on something
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together? I go, dude, I'd love to work with you.
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Like, I love you. I love your work. Let's do
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something. I was like, do you have anything in
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mind? He goes, all he said was, I want to do
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Trolls versus Vikings. Oh. Yeah. And I was like,
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so. It was an easy like, oh yeah, dude, let's
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do that. And our first plan was to do like a
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40 page one shot. You've obviously read the trade
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now. It got kind of, we kind of got away because
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we just loved the characters and what we were
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doing on the book. And he'd add pages and I'd
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add pages and it just became like this 200, you
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know, kind of magnum opus. You know, and we were
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gonna release it online at first, you know, that
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was a plan But you know, that's that's how it
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came to be. That was the basic premise was I
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want to do trolls versus Vikings It's sometimes
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the simplest ideas are the best ideas and I love
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that and there are definitely trolls and there
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are definitely Vikings in the books So you still
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take that off? wonderfully well and And I must
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say kind of like Tim's art is absolutely gorgeous.
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I just love it. And if I could have that cover
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but in a frame and a wall I definitely would
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have not that I have many walls in this house
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that I can put my Viking stuff on because I live
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with a family so pretty much it's all family
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photos. Alas I will have a Becky cave one day.
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Obviously let's dive into the first the three
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protagonists because there are three and there
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is Helgi a North Prince who has some father issues
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some issues with self -esteem and possibly a
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cursed axe. I'm trying not to give away too much.
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There is Stigar, who is a one -armed smith who's
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Pratch's Prime, as your own term says, and he's
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trying to, again, re -find himself as a warrior
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because people see him as an ex -warrior because
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he's only got one arm, as you would understand
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because you can't really do much with one arm,
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but he finds a way, a very genius way, I absolutely
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love it. And my favourite character of all because
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Valkyries are my catnip. is Caitlyn who in the
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words of the blurb is a female warrior convinced
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she is a Valkyrie and I just love that hint of
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doubt kind of like is she the crazy isn't she
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the crazy lady of the village or is she real
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and I just absolutely love her absolute kind
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of like just childlike joy and the fact that
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she has a little one -eyed mouse as a companion
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I thought that was just a lovely twist so how
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did you come about with these three characters
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then? I mean, it all started with Helgi, obviously,
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since he's the main character. And we're kind
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of, OK, what can we do with something that's
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a little different with Vikings? We came up with
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Helgi. And then Tim was the one that was like,
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hey, I got this idea for a one -armed character.
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And I was like, OK, I don't know what I'm going
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to do with that, but let's do it. Tim and I would
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just kind of throw out crazy ideas. And then
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I was the one that was like, hey, I'd like to
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kind of have a female character to kind of finish
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out the little team we made. And, you know, just
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kind of started going, hey, I want something
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a little different, a little off center. And
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Caitlin came to mind. I was like, oh, what if
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she thought she was a Valkyrie? Like, what would
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that look like? And how would the town treat
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her? So it was really important to us to have,
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like, Helgi, who's clearly, I mean, in regular
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society, would be a prince. So, you know, he'd
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be a lot more echelon, surrounded by kind of,
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like, two misfits. You know, the kind of the
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town kind of have dismissed these people as maybe
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not the normal worthiness you'd see in a in a
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society. And so it's very important to us to
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throw that into Helgi, because as you mentioned,
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he thinks he's cursed. And so he's like, oh,
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of course I get these two. Because I'm a crazy
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person. He thinks she's a Valkyrie and a guy
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who's a warrior, which makes no sense. That was
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really just us throwing around ideas. And then
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Tim, he ran off with Caitlin immediately and
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came back with that cloak that she wears. It
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was just magnificent. Again, don't want to spoil
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too much. where we want to go with that but then
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like I was like man we need a little animal in
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the in the in the mix and that's where the one
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I came in that kind of like she thinks whispers
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sweet stuff in her ear. Well I must admit kind
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of like it was only after the second reading
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that Helgi really stuck out to me as having definite
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connection with genuine Norse sagas. I don't
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know if you ever kind of like read the poetic
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edder or the prose edder and come across the
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saga of Helgi Hunding's vein. Yep. Yep. Yep.
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Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what was fantastic
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about this whole thing is Tim is actually like
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he's first generation Norwegian American. Tim
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is a Viking. So, you know, it's kind of fun because
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he would start talking about stuff that necessarily
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here in America when we learn Norse mythology,
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they didn't. much into so like I knew a little
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bit about trolls but not as much as you know
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like Tim grew up is like that's a major part
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of their mythology elves and all these kind of
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things that he had you know and how they celebrated
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Christmas was different than how I celebrated
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Christmas growing up and so I have to get a lot
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of that to Tim because he would he would hand
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me books and go hey read this and let's use this
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for inspiration he goes I want to do something
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that's that's based on myth you know Norse mythology
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but not necessarily is retelling Norse mythology
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like spin on it because that's kind of like holes
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became the main villain because you know obviously
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everybody's kind of done the frost giants and
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you know you know we can go on and on with the
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things that have been used so we kind of wanted
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to touch on stuff like you know earthy and smiths
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and elves but not necessarily make them the focal
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point that's a good point about the earth and
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smiths as well because i thought oh this is a
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really fresh take on dwarves and i really really
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like it i actually love because certainly kind
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of in the kind of like original tellings they
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say with the edders mainly kind of describe how
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the races came to be. The dwarves are always
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described as being kind of like being earthy
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or underground like from the underground layer
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of Midgard not from the top like mortals and
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humans are. I thought that's a really clever
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twist on it, really clever twist and it certainly
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explains why they're so good as myths because
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they know they're metalers and they're all. That's
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and then you went right down the same path that
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we did when we were thinking about like how is
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this a little different? It's like, well, they're
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kind of like mountain people. They live inside
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mountains. Like, what would they look like? You
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know, like, humans need light. You know, we need
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outside. And so, like, that's where we kind of,
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like, wanted to do a little shift and go, Oh,
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wait a minute. What if they're, what if they're
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real mountain people? Like, we take that little,
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you know, and so that's kind of like, we kind
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of dove down that, that rabbit hole. But it's
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wonderfully done and certainly it is a refreshing
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change from having Vikings versus Giants because
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of course Giants are always the enemies, at least
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for the gods at least, so it kind of makes sense
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that make them the enemies of the humans, not
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that you ever read about that much in kind of
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like original or even contemporary sources. And
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certainly thinking back to how prominent trolls
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are, it's made me remember that when I went to
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Norway for the first time last summer, for my
00:11:32.889 --> 00:11:35.509
little humble academic debut I did bring back
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a children's story about a little troll and there
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were lots of trolls in there including some with
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multiple heads and multiplies or even one with
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three heads and sharing one eye which was really
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weird but it just shows a variety and the variety
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of trolls you guys have come up with in this
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book I mean they're all incredibly grotesque
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well genuinely not nice characters are absolutely
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applaud the variety of grotesqueness you've invented.
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I mean, I have to give all that credit to Tim.
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And I was thinking classic, you know, forearm,
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or, you know, forelimb, one -head falls. And
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Tim came and he's like, man, I want to do something
00:12:13.259 --> 00:12:15.080
crazy. And he started showing me all these things
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that he'd been doing for years on trolls, because,
00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.779
you know, it's one of his favorites. And I was
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like, dude, we have to do those. Like, there's
00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:23.779
no doubt. And then it was just like, how do we
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fit them in there? And how do we, like, interpret
00:12:25.779 --> 00:12:27.990
their society? you know, and how can we have
00:12:27.990 --> 00:12:30.070
fun with like, you know, as you see in the book,
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when we have to hit, you know, sometimes when
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we have a hit with more than one troll, I mean,
00:12:33.429 --> 00:12:36.649
a troll head, you know, they're trying to talk,
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you know, those kinds of things. It's fun with
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like, hey, let's play with this, make it a little
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grotesque, make it a little bit horrific, but
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at the same time, how can we still have it? It
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is, it's, it's wonderful. I would like to touch
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a bit on perhaps the cursed, well, say the curse.
00:12:55.690 --> 00:12:59.129
the cursed axe that Helgi has and I just love
00:12:59.129 --> 00:13:02.149
the name mischiefs whisper because it's just
00:13:02.149 --> 00:13:04.029
such a gorgeous name and the fact that you then
00:13:04.029 --> 00:13:06.570
tie it in to how it's come from deeper than the
00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:08.570
earth near Loki and of course nothing good ever
00:13:08.570 --> 00:13:11.970
comes from Loki that's why Loki's always been
00:13:11.970 --> 00:13:14.889
tainted with mischief and mayhem and chaos and
00:13:14.889 --> 00:13:17.350
I really love that because of course there's
00:13:17.350 --> 00:13:22.929
lots of elements of cursed items in Norse mythology
00:13:22.929 --> 00:13:24.970
like I only recently this sprinkler and worry
00:13:24.970 --> 00:13:27.549
about the curse or tear thing and that whole
00:13:27.549 --> 00:13:30.470
saga of kind of like killing one generation off
00:13:30.470 --> 00:13:32.250
after another because it's just that's what it's
00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:35.529
destined to do um and I really like that and
00:13:35.529 --> 00:13:38.190
it really suits his character in trying to find
00:13:38.190 --> 00:13:41.470
his own identity and strength and confidence
00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:43.690
in that in that because he thinks he's cursed
00:13:43.690 --> 00:13:46.429
because of all the sad unfortunate circumstances
00:13:46.429 --> 00:13:48.590
that happened around him growing up and hence
00:13:48.590 --> 00:13:51.980
that's why no one really wants him. in the village.
00:13:53.059 --> 00:13:56.240
But then, because he's good with the axe, that
00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.879
gives him that false kind of confident over -reliance
00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.340
on it, in a way. And I really liked how you explored
00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:04.980
that narratively and, of course, within Tim's
00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:07.700
wonderful artwork. Yeah, I mean, we had so much
00:14:07.700 --> 00:14:10.620
fun with that character and the axe, too, because
00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:15.240
like you said, Helgi is so desperate to be successful
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.490
and be accepted. that finding something that
00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:20.129
makes him feel more powerful, he's immediately
00:14:20.129 --> 00:14:22.210
going to be drawn to it, which I think leads
00:14:22.210 --> 00:14:25.250
into Loki in my head. He's not going to be the
00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:27.990
guy that just comes out and says, hey, I'm going
00:14:27.990 --> 00:14:29.409
to help you, but I'm going to destroy you at
00:14:29.409 --> 00:14:32.649
the same time. He's one of those guys that whisper
00:14:32.649 --> 00:14:34.009
in your ear and make you feel more confident
00:14:34.009 --> 00:14:35.730
and feel more confident and get you to a point
00:14:35.730 --> 00:14:39.090
to where you feel invincible and then take it
00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:43.049
away from you. Our whole thing with the axe was
00:14:43.049 --> 00:14:45.679
like, hey, how can we use this against Helgi,
00:14:45.779 --> 00:14:48.120
and it's going to continue to make him feel more
00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.080
and more confident and, and get him closer to
00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.179
what he thinks he wants. But hopefully what,
00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:54.139
you know, we pulled off in the story, he learns
00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:55.500
like, Oh, wait a minute, that's not really what
00:14:55.500 --> 00:15:00.500
I wanted all along. Yeah, it's wonderful and
00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:03.519
I really appreciated Stigar's kind of archival
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.179
thing, kind of like his, and he said it so many
00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:08.059
times, of course, particularly to Helgi, kind
00:15:08.059 --> 00:15:10.860
of like, you don't decide my fate, I decide it.
00:15:11.259 --> 00:15:13.759
And that kind of like, that self -determinism
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.480
is so strong. It comes through in so many different
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.120
sources to do with the Vikings, kind of. And
00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:21.240
it's certainly, it's hard to say whether it's
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.519
one that we've enhanced or elaborated on. being
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.519
kind of like so many centers removed now, because
00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.740
that's an ideal of the Vikings, that they kind
00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:29.419
of like go to death with a sword in their hand
00:15:29.419 --> 00:15:33.519
or nothing at all kind of thing. But I really
00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:38.419
liked that. And of course, that was the other
00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:43.860
thing I was going to ask, actually. What made
00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:47.440
you decide? I mean, I know you said Tim came
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.019
through with the design for Katelyn, but was
00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:52.080
there a clear... Was it always clear from the
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.480
start that you were going to have her as a Valkyrie
00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:57.720
wannabe? Or were you going to possibly make her
00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:01.879
go down the shield maiden type route? Oh, from
00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:03.799
day one, we wanted her to be like, go down the
00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:07.179
Valkyrie path. Like, you know, I'm about to become
00:16:07.179 --> 00:16:09.460
a proud warrior. You know, like I've been to
00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:11.080
be the one on earth, you know, kind of thing.
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.000
And follow that path all along and make it so
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.480
that, like, hopefully throughout the whole story,
00:16:16.659 --> 00:16:19.470
even the reader is not sure because. you know,
00:16:19.529 --> 00:16:21.590
Helgi and Steiger definitely aren't sure that
00:16:21.590 --> 00:16:24.590
she's saying, you know, your Valkyrie, like,
00:16:24.649 --> 00:16:27.169
you know, okay, you know, this touching on for
00:16:27.169 --> 00:16:29.610
us, it was like touching on religion as a whole.
00:16:29.669 --> 00:16:32.370
You know, it's like, even in the in unseen things,
00:16:32.450 --> 00:16:34.870
and like, what is your religion based on? And
00:16:34.870 --> 00:16:37.909
then that faith in Katelyn to us was like, the
00:16:37.909 --> 00:16:41.549
ultimate person of faith. She's like, she knows
00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:44.889
that this is all true. You can kind of tell Helgi
00:16:44.889 --> 00:16:49.049
and Steiger like, They do have their faith. It's
00:16:49.049 --> 00:16:51.090
not necessarily like, you know, there's there's
00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:52.409
moments where you're like, hey, I'm not sure
00:16:52.409 --> 00:16:55.830
I believe all of this. You know, like, I'm not
00:16:55.830 --> 00:16:57.570
sure I believe in all of the stuff that I hear,
00:16:57.570 --> 00:16:59.029
you know, because it's, you know, as children,
00:16:59.110 --> 00:17:02.009
we hear these tales, you know, like, I don't
00:17:02.009 --> 00:17:05.410
know if an invisible person can do that. You
00:17:05.410 --> 00:17:07.190
know, that's what we kind of really wanted to
00:17:07.190 --> 00:17:11.819
lean into with her. But that that brings me to
00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:14.359
be kind of like those first few lines on those
00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.500
first few pages about hell You cannot say kind
00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:19.579
of like my father told me tales of this I'm not
00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:21.559
happening kind of like okay stinger that I put
00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.680
a dead giant in my throne room Can you please
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.980
tell me are they all true? And I'm like, wow,
00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:28.940
that is such a brilliantly hook a brilliant hook
00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:31.480
to bring the reader in and you do hit the story
00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:35.339
running. There's no great narrative build up
00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:38.140
or even background set up for these characters,
00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:41.569
but we kind of like they they're so well defined
00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:44.589
that we don't really need to know any great detail
00:17:44.589 --> 00:17:46.990
you get the odd bits from them all in conversation
00:17:46.990 --> 00:17:49.609
with each other and that's enough to still help
00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:52.589
them feel fully embodied so to speak even though
00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:54.670
I personally would love to see kind of like how
00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:57.349
Kaylin first decided to declare herself as a
00:17:57.349 --> 00:17:59.710
Valkyrie wannabe and what happened with Stigga
00:17:59.710 --> 00:18:02.230
and his father and of course ideally how that
00:18:02.230 --> 00:18:04.049
giant came to be in the village and how Helgi
00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:08.920
killed him of course. Well, that's fair because
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:10.900
I remember when I was we were talking about the
00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:14.240
initial that was supposed to be 40 pages So with
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.099
only 40 pages, we were thinking we had to dive
00:18:16.099 --> 00:18:18.779
in quick And so we passed all the typical narrative
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:20.500
that you normally get in a build -up You know
00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:23.299
in the first act of a story and so we kind of
00:18:23.299 --> 00:18:25.400
had to just go Hey, we're gonna dive deep in
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:28.839
first and then somehow 40 pages turned into 200
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.940
So you're fair and saying that because we were
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.920
just doing 40 like we were convinced we were
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.619
only doing 40 and just got carried away Well,
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.880
what you guys have achieved is sensational and
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.839
I definitely would, if there was a prologue or
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:49.200
even a sequel to this, I would be all for it.
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.440
It would get my money from the word go. Most
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:58.539
Viking things do, to be fair. So, interestingly
00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:02.400
enough, kind of the idea of Odin's eye being
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.420
involved is something I've never actually come
00:19:04.420 --> 00:19:06.380
across before, because of course, most people
00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:09.099
who have this basic understanding of how I didn't
00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:12.440
know that you gave up an eye for wisdom. Traditionally
00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.400
or canonically it's just sat in the bottom of
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.460
a well somewhere and doesn't do anything but
00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:19.240
I love how somehow it's come out of that well
00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.740
and passed around hands like a cursed object
00:19:21.740 --> 00:19:24.819
as it does and of course it tells Helgi that
00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:26.700
if you don't return me to my rightful owner then
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.700
I will curse you with the death of blisters and
00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:33.259
boils and decay and all sorts. did make me think
00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:35.400
back to of course the ring from Lord of the Rings
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:37.680
and I think that's what one of the reviewers
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.720
on the back of the book ComicCon .com says it's
00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.619
one part Lord of the Rings and another part Netflix
00:19:42.619 --> 00:19:44.779
is Norseman which I think is a really out really
00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:47.359
out description and which it has got some lovely
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.380
humor to it as well as kind of like the kind
00:19:50.380 --> 00:19:54.420
of deeper exploration of just being a human in
00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:57.400
this fantastical world which is sensational.
00:19:58.959 --> 00:20:01.500
But interestingly that you guys kind of then
00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:03.220
must have discussed and decided that it wasn't
00:20:03.220 --> 00:20:04.920
going to go back to Mimi as well as such but
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:06.980
go back to Mimi who is alive and well albeit
00:20:06.980 --> 00:20:11.079
King of the Frost Giants in this universe. Yeah
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:13.240
I mean for us you know when we started uh oh
00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.019
we're gonna get a visitor I've got Abraham my
00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:19.160
cat's gonna come join us. Cats are always welcome!
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:23.259
As long as he doesn't press the stop recording
00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:27.430
button. Yeah, I mean, for us, like, what was
00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:28.730
cool is when we started thinking about, like,
00:20:28.769 --> 00:20:30.549
what's going to be the driving force behind this?
00:20:30.670 --> 00:20:31.910
And we wanted, you know, obviously got to come
00:20:31.910 --> 00:20:35.349
up with something to keep, keep the characters
00:20:35.349 --> 00:20:37.509
moving forward. And, you know, we just kind of
00:20:37.509 --> 00:20:39.089
bumped around on the eye of Odin. I was like,
00:20:39.190 --> 00:20:41.049
Hey, imagine if that was real. And like, what
00:20:41.049 --> 00:20:44.210
would I, somebody like Odin do to it? To make
00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:46.170
sure that, like, because to us, I mean, having
00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:49.450
Odin's eye would be like a weapon, like an unimaginably
00:20:49.450 --> 00:20:53.089
magical, unstoppable weapon. And so we came up
00:20:53.089 --> 00:20:54.650
with that kind of idea and it's like, wait a
00:20:54.650 --> 00:20:56.410
minute, Ode wouldn't let anybody just have it.
00:20:56.470 --> 00:20:58.390
So like he gave it to somebody and then he's
00:20:58.390 --> 00:21:00.190
going to curse it so that nobody else can ever
00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:03.049
have it and use it. Interesting. So that was
00:21:03.049 --> 00:21:05.750
our whole, you know, again, our own Norse mythology
00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:08.049
at that point. But, you know, the president was
00:21:08.049 --> 00:21:10.490
like, hey, this would be kind of a fun, you know,
00:21:10.690 --> 00:21:13.690
translation of what we've seen before. And, you
00:21:13.690 --> 00:21:15.609
know, we loved playing with that eye and having
00:21:15.609 --> 00:21:18.190
to like actually move around in the liquid. a
00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:20.789
look at stuff and yeah so that that's kind of
00:21:20.789 --> 00:21:23.509
it was just the driving mechanism for our whole
00:21:23.509 --> 00:21:27.490
story. It works really really well and it's something
00:21:27.490 --> 00:21:31.990
I've always really admired about the Norse mythology
00:21:31.990 --> 00:21:36.250
that because it's not treated as almost like
00:21:36.250 --> 00:21:40.250
a sacred set of stories such as like the Bible
00:21:40.250 --> 00:21:43.829
or in Hinduism or in Buddhism there is that freedom
00:21:43.829 --> 00:21:46.230
to play, that freedom to manipulate, to readjust,
00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:49.910
to reset things and I must say kind of like since
00:21:49.910 --> 00:21:52.970
the 18th century with Wagner of course, people
00:21:52.970 --> 00:21:55.349
have just taken it and just run and the things
00:21:55.349 --> 00:21:58.329
people have come up with it both respects and
00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:02.329
also reflects the time that it was done. And
00:22:02.329 --> 00:22:05.250
I absolutely love what you guys, I just love
00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:10.630
it, I absolutely love it. I was going to say
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.019
Did you ever discuss plans for maybe doing a
00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:17.519
sequel from all the page that you couldn't quite
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:21.460
fit in or Was there ever an option for that?
00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:23.579
Oh, yeah, I mean with Tim and I obviously there
00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.200
was I mean I talked about this to them unfortunately
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.000
Tim passed away this year So, um, you know, obviously
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.839
I wouldn't touch it without him, you know to
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:32.740
me It's you know, and I know that might make
00:22:32.740 --> 00:22:34.660
some people sad it kind of makes me sad too But
00:22:34.660 --> 00:22:37.500
it wouldn't be right for me to continue to do
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:39.519
something with this without Tim. You know, it's
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:41.319
just, it wouldn't be right. It wouldn't feel
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.859
right for me anyway. And so yeah, we had talked
00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:45.680
about like, oh, what else could we do if we kept
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.200
going? You know, and it, cause there's just so
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:50.200
much more, you know, it kind of left them a cliffhanger
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:53.460
of like, you know, and you kind of learn some
00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.200
new stuff and it's like, yeah, we could definitely
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.839
do some more. And so there was definitely plans
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.180
of possibly doing another sequel, but unfortunately
00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:03.480
Tim just got sick and we had to put that on the
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.559
side. Yeah. I was very, very sad to learn Tim
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:09.440
had passed, because if I could have had him on
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.859
as well, it would have made this twice as fun.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:15.480
It really would have. And it's a shame, but I'll
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:17.720
never get to tell him personally how much his
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:23.420
art is amazing. But I hope, and I know from the
00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:25.859
way you talk about it, he enjoyed doing that.
00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:28.740
And if he enjoyed doing this, then that's all
00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:32.089
that really matters really. Oh yeah, Tim. loved
00:23:32.089 --> 00:23:34.329
nothing more than drawing, and loved nothing
00:23:34.329 --> 00:23:36.589
more than comics. He had a really fun picture
00:23:36.589 --> 00:23:40.390
that he showed me. He started reading comics
00:23:40.390 --> 00:23:43.950
at age 10, and he bumped into Spawn and Youngblood,
00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:47.369
the Image Classic stuff. And he went out and
00:23:47.369 --> 00:23:50.890
bought a drawing desk that week and said, someday
00:23:50.890 --> 00:23:53.109
I'm going to draw comics and work for Image.
00:23:53.609 --> 00:23:56.130
And we kind of didn't talk about how this all
00:23:56.130 --> 00:23:57.950
came about as far as the Image side of things.
00:23:58.029 --> 00:24:00.930
But Tim's ultimate dream was always to do a book
00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:05.269
for Image. And so that happened. And so luckily,
00:24:05.369 --> 00:24:07.690
before Tim passed, he actually had got a chance
00:24:07.690 --> 00:24:10.049
to make his dream come true. It's not always
00:24:10.049 --> 00:24:12.569
a special place in my heart, too, that Tim just
00:24:12.569 --> 00:24:15.549
wanted to draw comics and nothing more than drawing
00:24:15.549 --> 00:24:17.769
for Image. And somehow he managed to make that
00:24:17.769 --> 00:24:21.430
happen. So it's pretty exciting. I mean, you
00:24:21.430 --> 00:24:23.569
got time for me to tell you that story? Yes,
00:24:23.750 --> 00:24:26.250
please do. Please do. Tim and I had been working
00:24:26.250 --> 00:24:28.589
on this book, and we're doing it on our free
00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:29.990
time. So we've been working on this book probably
00:24:29.990 --> 00:24:32.650
for a year, maybe two. And he ended up moving
00:24:32.650 --> 00:24:35.789
to Minnesota. And so we talk online and stuff
00:24:35.789 --> 00:24:36.930
like this. And he goes, hey, I want to go to
00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:40.890
this tiny little convention in Minnesota. And
00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:44.630
then he calls me, and he's like, hey, I went
00:24:44.630 --> 00:24:46.470
to this little convention. And Eric Stevenson,
00:24:46.710 --> 00:24:48.750
the president of Image Comics, was there. And
00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:51.740
I showed him the painting. And I was like, oh,
00:24:51.740 --> 00:24:53.660
OK. He goes, I hope you don't mind me just showing
00:24:53.660 --> 00:24:55.500
it as part of my portfolio. And I was like, of
00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:58.640
course not. Well, then the very next day, I get
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.380
an email from Eric, because I've been working
00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.680
with the image since 2014. And he goes, hey,
00:25:04.779 --> 00:25:06.299
how come you haven't told me about this Viking
00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:10.339
book? And I was like, I didn't know. There was
00:25:10.339 --> 00:25:13.619
no plan. I hadn't even thought about it. And
00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:15.859
so Eric called me, and he's like, hey, dude,
00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:18.490
I want this book. And so it was just like this
00:25:18.490 --> 00:25:20.750
random, like Tim showing up to this tiny little
00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:25.309
convention in Minnesota and showing his pages
00:25:25.309 --> 00:25:27.210
to Eric and Eric calling me the next day going,
00:25:27.250 --> 00:25:29.829
hey, I need this book. And that's how Tim managed
00:25:29.829 --> 00:25:33.009
to somehow, through blind luck, get to do his
00:25:33.009 --> 00:25:39.410
first image book. Well, it sounds like fate,
00:25:39.569 --> 00:25:41.849
the norms, the good vibes of the universe were
00:25:41.849 --> 00:25:44.680
leading him. step by step to the right people
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:46.900
at the right time. First meeting you, finding
00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:49.660
that connection, and then of course finding Eric
00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:52.960
at that comic con. Oh wow, I'm so pleased he
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:57.059
did get to achieve this, as untimely as his parting
00:25:57.059 --> 00:26:01.480
was. Because kind of like having achieved my
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.940
dream only last year of talking about Valkyries
00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:05.940
in Norway, of all places, that I never thought
00:26:05.940 --> 00:26:10.579
I'd ever get to set foot on. It's immensely fulfilling.
00:26:10.829 --> 00:26:13.109
once you have that moment, no matter how big
00:26:13.109 --> 00:26:19.190
or small or how niche it is. And yeah, I have
00:26:19.190 --> 00:26:21.289
to agree, as sad as it is that there won't be
00:26:21.289 --> 00:26:24.269
more of this universe, I totally respect that
00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:31.509
it will then forever be Tim's. Yeah, it's stunning.
00:26:34.329 --> 00:26:36.910
And hold your folk, they're always staring at
00:26:36.910 --> 00:26:38.670
me from the cover because there's so many of
00:26:38.670 --> 00:26:41.920
them. The Holdred folk are like little imps.
00:26:42.819 --> 00:26:44.819
They're vicious looking little imps. And I love
00:26:44.819 --> 00:26:46.720
the strange language that they're all muttering
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.220
as they're all taking bits and pieces when they
00:26:49.220 --> 00:26:51.359
find these three protagonists deep in the murky
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.640
woods trying to get through. Especially, of course,
00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.400
when Caitlin says kind of like, oh, yeah, kind
00:26:57.400 --> 00:26:59.519
of like, don't trust them. They're vicious. They're
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:01.380
mean. And they only just see one. And then the
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:03.900
whole mass of them appears on the page. I thought
00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:06.779
that is a masterstroke of comic and artistry
00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:09.900
genus. It was wonderful, that one. Thanks. I
00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:12.279
mean that with those guys like I struggled a
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:14.680
little bit because I kind of had them in my head
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:16.119
from the very beginning when we started doing
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:20.059
the story and there's no you know Classical Holder
00:27:20.059 --> 00:27:22.460
folk in Norse mythology. So like we were struggling
00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:24.980
a little bit But then was like, you know, we
00:27:24.980 --> 00:27:26.400
can make up our own stuff from time to time.
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.339
Let's do it He said like he draws one on one
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:31.500
page and then I can't imagine how many he drew
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:35.420
on the next page. There's like 50 plus Page and
00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:37.440
I'm like dude, like you don't have to draw this
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:40.460
many He's like, oh no, like this book has to
00:27:40.460 --> 00:27:42.680
be perfect. And so like the fact that he spent
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.960
days drawing that page, you know, each little
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.339
holder folk that you see in there, you know,
00:27:48.460 --> 00:27:50.180
it's amazing that he went to that extent. But
00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:51.799
we had so much fun with those little characters
00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:53.880
and the fact that they were just like, there's
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.680
like a force of nature, right? They'd come through,
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.500
they'd take stuff and they leave. And as long
00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:02.400
as you mess with that, you're fine. But they
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.240
also, if they bite you, you know, like they have
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.009
the venom of um you know a world serpent you
00:28:08.009 --> 00:28:11.569
know just stay still let them take your funny
00:28:11.569 --> 00:28:13.450
stuff and they'll leave you alone and so we had
00:28:13.450 --> 00:28:15.349
so much fun with those you know that that was
00:28:15.349 --> 00:28:20.289
one of my favorite parts of the book so how long
00:28:20.289 --> 00:28:22.089
overall did it take you both you had to be working
00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:24.190
on it for like one and a half to two years so
00:28:24.190 --> 00:28:26.869
is that the call that has come out now or is
00:28:26.869 --> 00:28:29.490
that on the whole math that you then had to shrink
00:28:29.490 --> 00:28:32.789
down a bit oh no i mean for us um we spent probably
00:28:32.789 --> 00:28:35.960
about four years doing the book And so, you know,
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.279
obviously it's easier for me because I'm the
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.099
writer. So I could write a couple of pages to
00:28:39.099 --> 00:28:41.019
Tim and then he'd run off and, you know, you
00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:43.019
know, we're both working full -time at other
00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:46.700
jobs and this on the side. And, you know, so,
00:28:46.700 --> 00:28:48.660
I mean, I was fine with it. I told him that right
00:28:48.660 --> 00:28:50.400
up front. I was like, hey, dude, there's no rush.
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:52.359
You know, neither one of us are getting paid
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.279
to do this. When we get done, we get done. And
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:56.759
so, yeah, it took about four years and I was
00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:58.400
fine with that. Like I said, I was completely
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.960
happy to give Tim the time he needed to do as
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.000
you've seen the pages. these incredible pages
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.059
and sometimes where you have 50 plus holder folk
00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:09.740
on a single panel you know and you're like this
00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:12.299
is unbelievable like so i was more than happy
00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:15.660
to give them him all the time he needed well
00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:19.059
it really shows it i mean the length of detail
00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:23.720
just kind of like it's it's just astonishing
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:30.259
it absolutely and wonderfully is um Were there
00:29:30.259 --> 00:29:32.920
any other protagonists that you considered when
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:34.839
you were developing this narrative, or did you
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:37.319
always have in mind it would be kind of like
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.579
an old guy, young guy, and then at least a woman
00:29:39.579 --> 00:29:42.680
of some description type or other? I mean, pretty
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:44.599
much it had always been, I mean, we never went
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:46.920
past three. I think it kind of just fit, you
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:48.720
know, when we got, like, we initially came up
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.799
with Helgi, and then he, it was Steiger, and
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:53.220
then we came up with Caitlin, and I was like,
00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:56.339
you know, I think this is the perfect trio to
00:29:56.339 --> 00:29:58.079
kind of carry out the story. We don't need more.
00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:00.089
And you know, I mean, obviously we could have
00:30:00.089 --> 00:30:01.950
put a bigger band together, but again, at the
00:30:01.950 --> 00:30:04.349
same time, as I said before, we're thinking 40
00:30:04.349 --> 00:30:06.529
pages, so we wouldn't have to early dive into
00:30:06.529 --> 00:30:09.130
all the characters. And so luckily three was
00:30:09.130 --> 00:30:10.869
exactly what we needed, and I think it ended
00:30:10.869 --> 00:30:16.569
up being perfect. So since kind of like working
00:30:16.569 --> 00:30:19.210
on this, did you develop more of a taste or a
00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:21.670
curiosity for North mythology and Viking -y stuff,
00:30:21.670 --> 00:30:24.009
or was it pretty much just during this window
00:30:24.009 --> 00:30:26.230
working on this book? No, I still read stuff
00:30:26.230 --> 00:30:28.640
from time to time on it, but Reading through
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:30.859
them was just amazing for me, because I did not
00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:34.900
realize the impact and the reach that Norse mythology
00:30:34.900 --> 00:30:37.279
had had across the world. And you start talking
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:38.779
about this stuff, and you go, you know, we've
00:30:38.779 --> 00:30:40.180
mentioned it before, like, you're like, Oh, wait
00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:42.700
a minute, Lord of the Rings is Norse mythology.
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:45.759
And so, like, you know, people think of it as,
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:47.420
you know, almost like a European thing. But then
00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:50.000
we start digging deeper into, like, Norse mythology
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.839
and stuff. And you hit that, and you see the
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.460
influences in Greek and Roman mythology. And,
00:30:55.460 --> 00:30:57.180
you know, we start talking about the days of
00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:59.119
the week. And you're like, oh, wait a minute.
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.099
Most days of the week, you're named after Norse
00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:03.680
gods. And you're like, I don't understand the
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.460
huge impact I think that Vikings and Norse culture
00:31:07.460 --> 00:31:10.019
had on the entire world until you start diving
00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:12.000
into it and going, oh, wait a minute. There's
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.119
even some tales from Norse mythology that leak
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.400
their way into the Bible. And you're just like,
00:31:18.460 --> 00:31:22.500
oh, wow. I did not realize the reach this tiny
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.819
section of the world had on the entire world
00:31:25.819 --> 00:31:28.900
and still does. And so you love reading about,
00:31:29.180 --> 00:31:31.079
honestly, all the mythologies are, I love them
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:32.319
because they're all, you know, some of them are
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:35.980
so strange. Especially these ones and African
00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:38.259
ones. And you're like, oh, I'd never heard of
00:31:38.259 --> 00:31:42.079
any of this. And this is crazy. You know, I think
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:44.819
being, obviously being European, more European
00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:46.839
influence, you know, with Europe and in the U
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.319
.S., we get a little bit of Greek mythology.
00:31:49.420 --> 00:31:51.380
So we're like, oh, an eight legged horse, who
00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:53.799
cares? We've seen it before. You're like, wait
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:57.759
a minute. Doesn't make any sense. So I love it.
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.119
I love it all and it's so fascinating. It's fun
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.240
to read You know, I know why they made Thor the
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:04.900
main character, but it's funny to read Norse
00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:08.000
mythology The Thor and then we get you know,
00:32:08.059 --> 00:32:10.440
like the the Marvel Universe when we're yes,
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:16.980
not a complete bumbling Man of nothing, but I
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:22.240
love the fact that the son of Odin is basically
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.559
complete moron mythology and you love him for
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:29.140
it because he's so dumb you root for him and
00:32:29.140 --> 00:32:31.039
I think that's what's fantastic about that character
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.259
in the Norse mythology but like I said I love
00:32:33.259 --> 00:32:35.759
it all I love diving into it and it's so fun
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:38.700
and wonderful and weird you know based on you
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:41.000
know what I've been experienced to previously
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.059
and like I said he talking with Tim like you
00:32:44.059 --> 00:32:45.539
know like they're a little Christmas elf that
00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:48.299
lives in the barn and brings him a gift Santa
00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:50.380
Claus you know those kind of things and how his
00:32:50.380 --> 00:32:52.759
dad and Tim did this until he passed as well
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.829
like They dressed up as the elf on Christmas
00:32:55.829 --> 00:32:58.609
Eve and they come in and that's how they celebrated
00:32:58.609 --> 00:33:02.390
Christmas. And I was like, wait, what? I'm very
00:33:02.390 --> 00:33:05.069
classic, like American trained, like hey Santa
00:33:05.069 --> 00:33:07.869
Claus, tonight, blah, blah, blah. To see them
00:33:07.869 --> 00:33:13.109
do that was amazing. That's really nice to hear
00:33:13.109 --> 00:33:15.289
because it's always interesting because it's
00:33:15.289 --> 00:33:18.730
a question that I got asked myself at my little
00:33:18.730 --> 00:33:22.539
academic debut last year. as much as I've loved
00:33:22.539 --> 00:33:25.259
reading all things Norse, especially in fantasy
00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:26.799
fiction, but I'm definitely dying more and more
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:29.220
into comics, wherever I can find them, like there's
00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:32.779
another comic coming out in October, no, we're
00:33:32.779 --> 00:33:35.700
already in October, November, November called
00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:38.700
Viking Moon, and it's basically Vikings versus
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:41.480
werewolves in the newly discovered Americas,
00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:44.579
which again is a crazy idea, but somehow it works
00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:49.569
narratively, because hey, why not? It's kind
00:33:49.569 --> 00:33:52.450
of like, has anyone ever found themselves going
00:33:52.450 --> 00:33:54.369
back to try to find out more about the original
00:33:54.369 --> 00:33:57.289
sources that inspired these mod interpretations,
00:33:57.789 --> 00:33:59.849
whether they're interpretations or retellings
00:33:59.849 --> 00:34:02.470
or complete fictional fabrications with North
00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:04.789
elements. And it's nice to hear that you've found
00:34:04.789 --> 00:34:08.210
equal fun and enjoyment in them as much as I
00:34:08.210 --> 00:34:12.090
have. Well, I mean, Tim and his mom would bring
00:34:12.090 --> 00:34:15.110
me books that we can't get in America. that were
00:34:15.110 --> 00:34:17.289
Norse mythology. And so it was like a totally
00:34:17.289 --> 00:34:20.349
different take, right? Because it's from those
00:34:20.349 --> 00:34:24.130
people in that area versus, you know, the Americanized
00:34:24.130 --> 00:34:26.389
version that, you know, oh, well, we'll accept
00:34:26.389 --> 00:34:29.670
that here because this is the only text we're
00:34:29.670 --> 00:34:31.190
going to use for Viking mythology. And they had
00:34:31.190 --> 00:34:33.869
tons of books. And so that was, I mean, that
00:34:33.869 --> 00:34:35.989
helped me so much to kind of get the feel for
00:34:35.989 --> 00:34:37.869
everything in the book itself, because it was
00:34:37.869 --> 00:34:39.130
like, oh, wait a minute, we need to put this
00:34:39.130 --> 00:34:41.329
in there, you know, because like it was just
00:34:41.530 --> 00:34:44.389
but like I said it's an amazing I'm getting lost
00:34:44.389 --> 00:34:47.269
in thought you know just because you know my
00:34:47.269 --> 00:34:48.989
my head is just stewing and all the wonderful
00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:51.289
things that I learned and how amazing it was
00:34:51.289 --> 00:34:53.170
and how magical it was and I was like I wish
00:34:53.170 --> 00:34:55.050
I'd have learned this stuff when I was a kid
00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:58.530
I mean it is interesting point because of course
00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:01.670
in America you have leaf ericson day I assume
00:35:01.670 --> 00:35:03.969
kind of course courses you discovered the Americas
00:35:03.969 --> 00:35:07.170
before Columbus did Of course, in the UK, we're
00:35:07.170 --> 00:35:10.170
kind of riddled with Viking references historically
00:35:10.170 --> 00:35:12.929
because they invaded us so many times and changed
00:35:12.929 --> 00:35:15.190
our culture so much. But then we've got so many
00:35:15.190 --> 00:35:17.650
layers of other invasions and other peoples.
00:35:17.909 --> 00:35:21.250
It's all kind of a mix. But I've never really,
00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:25.590
I don't have many friends that are properly,
00:35:25.710 --> 00:35:28.309
fully kind of like Norwegian or Danish or even
00:35:28.309 --> 00:35:30.349
Swedish. So I've never really encountered anyone
00:35:30.349 --> 00:35:33.690
to see how the actual like home nation of the
00:35:33.690 --> 00:35:36.849
Vikings see the Vikings, because we learn about
00:35:36.849 --> 00:35:38.610
English history, you learn about American history,
00:35:38.750 --> 00:35:41.030
and I don't know if they learn that much more
00:35:41.030 --> 00:35:43.550
about their own complicated history in the Viking
00:35:43.550 --> 00:35:46.130
Age, or just focus on how the nations evolved
00:35:46.130 --> 00:35:47.789
into the nations they are today. Because of course,
00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:50.730
they were as splintered as England was back in
00:35:50.730 --> 00:35:52.530
the Viking Age. There wasn't an England in the
00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:57.750
Viking Age at all for a long time. I mean, you're
00:35:57.750 --> 00:36:00.110
right. It's great to dive into that kind of stuff.
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:05.000
Like Michelle Madsen, the colorist of the book,
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.519
she's also first generation. Oh really? Yeah,
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:11.780
so we'd get on conference calls and they would
00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:16.159
talk, which I just referred to as Viking. I didn't
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.380
know a single word of it. We'd talk for a couple
00:36:19.380 --> 00:36:24.480
of minutes in Norse, and it was just amazing.
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:26.719
And then they'd start telling you tales of stuff
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:31.960
like, I think we're... they passed it down more,
00:36:32.300 --> 00:36:34.760
like, through, through families. Like, they passed
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.860
their history down, I think, more so than, say,
00:36:36.860 --> 00:36:39.679
we do, or we learned it in school. They would,
00:36:39.739 --> 00:36:41.519
you know, this is the things we, they, they learned,
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:42.960
and they just kind of took it for granted, you
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:45.079
know, as, as far as like, Oh, we thought everybody
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:46.880
knew this. And I was like, Nobody knows this.
00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:49.579
It's like, I've never heard of any of this stuff.
00:36:49.579 --> 00:36:51.599
This is fantastic. Because, you know, I'm one
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.000
of those people that just loves to learn new
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:55.860
stuff. So getting to tell me tales of stuff of
00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:57.320
like, you know, Oh, well, my parents did this,
00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:58.679
and this is how they were raised. And you're
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:02.590
like, That's insane. So it was really cool, like
00:37:02.590 --> 00:37:04.510
I said, it was fun hanging out with both of them
00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:08.349
doing this book. Oh, that's really nice that
00:37:08.349 --> 00:37:11.210
there's such like that is that strong heritage
00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:14.309
influence and connection coming all the way through.
00:37:15.329 --> 00:37:18.949
And I do implore anyone who's listening or watching
00:37:18.949 --> 00:37:21.909
to find Beware the Eye of Odin, whether it's
00:37:21.909 --> 00:37:24.750
a single issue or the combined paperback form,
00:37:24.909 --> 00:37:27.010
go to your local comic book shop, check out your
00:37:27.010 --> 00:37:29.389
library, see if it's on Amazon. download it,
00:37:29.570 --> 00:37:31.809
borrow it, read it, it is absolutely phenomenal.
00:37:32.369 --> 00:37:34.210
I absolutely love it and there's so much more
00:37:34.210 --> 00:37:35.909
I could talk about but I'm trying not to spoil
00:37:35.909 --> 00:37:40.010
it for everyone. Excuse me, had my cough people.
00:37:40.489 --> 00:37:42.389
That's another reason why things have been difficult
00:37:42.389 --> 00:37:47.000
for the past week or two but oh yes it's... It's
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.340
been such a pleasure speaking to you about this.
00:37:50.500 --> 00:37:52.760
Are there any other projects that you might be
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:54.480
working on that you might like to share with
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.059
viewers and listeners today? As I'm sure you
00:37:57.059 --> 00:37:59.119
know, my publishers don't like me to talk about
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:02.340
anything until they announce it, so I'll be a
00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:07.079
good person to keep my jobs. So I can't really
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.219
talk. Obviously, I've got, I mean, if anybody's
00:38:09.219 --> 00:38:11.800
into cyberpunk, but I've got a cyberpunk 2077.
00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:14.719
mini -series coming out through Dark Horse in
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:18.260
January. Very good. We'll talk about that, yeah.
00:38:19.420 --> 00:38:21.239
The rest of the guys and I, we just keep working
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:22.880
on books and there'll be more books out next
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.239
year. Wonderful, I'm so glad that you've got
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.300
constant projects coming through and hopefully
00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:31.780
you're enjoying all of them as much as you enjoyed
00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:36.420
this one. Yep. Thank you so much for joining
00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:39.139
me in Valhalla today Doug. It's been a real pleasure
00:38:39.139 --> 00:38:41.940
and I'm sure I will be emailing you again with
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:43.820
any more questions and I'm just trying getting
00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:46.099
observations about this wonderful book. Thank
00:38:46.099 --> 00:38:47.860
you. The pleasure has been all mine. Thank you
00:38:47.860 --> 00:38:50.019
for reaching out and doing this and always feel
00:38:50.019 --> 00:38:53.000
free to reach out with more questions. Thank
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:55.139
you. I will do. Quite often as I say to most
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:57.360
people in my normal life who meet me, very often
00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:59.360
you do escape. You don't often escape once you've
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.940
met me. Once I've got your email address or your
00:39:01.940 --> 00:39:04.519
WhatsApp number I'm on you. especially if it's
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.659
about Vikings or Valkyries, are yes, definitely,
00:39:07.659 --> 00:39:11.699
definitely interested. And of course, thank you
00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:15.639
to your cat for her wonderful showcase. Every
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.440
podcast he shows up for. So he's my biggest podcast
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:40.920
fan. Thank you so much. My pleasure. This episode
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.960
of Valhalla Conversations is dedicated to comic
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:47.960
artist Tim Odland, who sadly passed away this
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:53.539
summer of 2025. Tim's lifelong dream was to illustrate
00:39:53.539 --> 00:39:57.579
a comic published by Image Comics. Beware the
00:39:57.579 --> 00:40:03.320
Eye of Odin is that comic, that dream. I will
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.599
treasure it always in Tim's memory for an example
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:10.820
of his amazing talent. Thank you for your dream,
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:47.389
Tim. Rest in peace. Thank you very much for listening
00:40:47.389 --> 00:40:50.829
to this episode. I hope you enjoyed the discussions
00:40:50.829 --> 00:40:54.090
between my special guests and myself. Please
00:40:54.090 --> 00:40:56.809
do check out the episode blurb for links to their
00:40:56.809 --> 00:40:59.710
works and websites. If you liked this episode,
00:40:59.769 --> 00:41:02.489
let me know by giving it a thumbs up. Let me
00:41:02.489 --> 00:41:04.650
know if you learned something new in the comments.
00:41:05.070 --> 00:41:08.329
And of course, click subscribe to Valhalla Conversations
00:41:08.329 --> 00:41:11.670
wherever you are listening or watching. This
00:41:11.670 --> 00:41:14.190
podcast can be watched on YouTube and YouTube
00:41:14.190 --> 00:41:17.829
Music. and it can also be listened to on Spotify,
00:41:18.349 --> 00:41:22.630
Amazon Music, Podcast Intex and on RSS .com.
00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:25.449
We hope you can join us in Valhalla again soon
00:41:25.449 --> 00:41:26.969
for more conversations.